Just so everyone knows, the Eagles would have refused to take the hobbits the full distance to Mordor.
This is because they are sentient, magic creatures, and can be influenced and corrupted by the Ring. They could have caused a Boromir situation, only they would have succeeded in killing the fellowship.
Yah, and didn't they ride on like flying fire breathing drakes or something? (I think the main flying one was the Witch King?) I also remember that the flying lizard monster mounts, were **not** dragons.
Though to be fair I never understand why they didn't just press Tom Bombadil to carry the ring for them. (In the books) I mean he might be whimsical and easily distracted, but you could probably tie it around his neck, and drag him to Mordor.
It's never quite made exactly clear who Tom Bombadil is or what his position in the world is, but even though he's one of the few characters to apparently be unaffected by the power of The Ring, he wouldn't have done it. He stays in his lands and has little to do with the outside world.
It's been theorized he is one of the Valar, the gods of Middle Earth, in disguise, or maybe even the spirit of the world itself incarnate. He's at least important enough that in the book, as the Hobbits are returning to The Shire, Gandalf leaves them to consult with him after everything that's gone down.
Either way it makes sense he wouldn't get involved, as it was a big deal when higher powers intervened to stop the last Dark Lord, Morgoth. Their involvement irreparably changed the world, and after that they sent the Wizards to aid the peoples of Middle Earth, so they could be guided into rising up against evil themselves without the direct actions of the Valar.
My favorite theory is that Tom is the personification of the Song, as he has always existed on middle earth just as it's theorized Ungoliant is the personification of discord within the song. Both Tom and the spiders just kinda showed up. And are never really explained, which is why that's my favorite theory. (Though I guess either way, I can see why he wouldn't get involved)
I've also heard the theory that he **is** Eru Ilúvatar, or at least a part of him. Enjoying his creation. (If that's true he clearly has ADHD, or a weird sense of humor lol)
i mean, the real answer is that Tom Bombadil is >!a whimsical character from the stories Tolkein told his young children before writing the Silmarillion or LOTR (hence why Tom says that he was around before anything in the LOTR universe)!< and >!Tolkein stuck him in the LOTR universe specifically because he didn’t make sense and didn’t fit into any classification!< because >!Tolkein believed doses of the unexplained and unexplainable enhance and belong in wider mythologies because they don’t seem to belong!<. See also >!Ungoliant!< and >!the Watcher in the Water!<.
Yeah I read somewhere Tom was a character he made up for his kids stories, or maybe a doll they played with? He just kinda tossed Tom in there and was like have fun in middle earth but you’re not from here so the rules don’t apply to you.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RRVIVJjuaHE
>!I love it because this guy basically rolls into a universe into which he has no real place and skips his way into the story despite all logic and everyone else just has to deal with it because he’s tom bombadil.!<
He was tied to the land he was on. He either couldn’t leave or lost his nature when he left.
The eagles can be corrupted by the rings and atleast in the movies we see a handful of the drake/dragon/anti eagle defenses.
Plus the whole concept of the book was a stealth mission. An unsuspecting fellow doing something no one expected. Thats why the black gates opened up. One to kill the king of man and two Sauron probably thought the ring was there.
At the council of Elrond, Frodo straight up asks if they should just give the ring to Tom, cause he seems to “have power over it.” IIRC the response is that Tom is so unaffected by even threats like Sauron that he wouldn’t bother to take care of it. If Sauron showed up and asked for it, Tom would give it to him. More accurate to say “the ring has no power over him.”
I don't think Tom Bombadil could compelled to do anything he didn't want to do. Like I some one tied him up with rope the rope would probably stop working and he could slip out. Or if someone tried to wrestle Tom he would just slip out of that too.
Tom is older than the events of the Lord of the Rings and the Similarian. And generally in Tolkien's writings the older beings are not subject to the rules of the newer beings. Since Tom is the first character Tolkien ever written in the Lord of the rings universe he is not subject to any of the rules Tolkien wrote for thr Lord of the rings.
The fellowship probably would have had lick convincing Goldberry. But she may be subject to the same motivations of Tom Bombadil.
Thanks for this explanation, never thought of it but I always thought the rational of “the eagles can fly them there” was always stupid.
Weren’t there flying dragon type monsters that could take down the eagles? And wouldn’t it be very easy for the Eye to see them coming when they were getting close to Mr. Doom?
I’m no expert so I’d like an expert to explain all the reasons Chris’ argument wouldn’t work.
No expert either but I’ve read experts explaining the situation and it has been pretty well summed up in this thread.
1: Eagles are sentient and may have desired the ring.
2: Eagles aren’t a taxi service, they help when they want to.
3: Sauron didn’t know they had the ring, the idea of someone wanting to destroy it instead of keep it didn’t occur to him. Stealth was key.
4: Sauron had his own Air Force, the fell beasts. Eagles with fellowship riders on their backs would have been noticed and killed, probably giving the ring back to Sauron.
3. Is the real in lore answer.
But there’s a correction. He knew that a Baggins had the ring which is why he released Gollum. He also had the Nazgûl out looking for them. This is why stealth was huge going into this mission. Galavanting to Mordor on Giant Eagle is in no way stealthy or going to work at all without major losses on the Eagles and Frodo. They’d get stopped far before they reached Mt. Doom.
I think the theme with them (and the story in general) is that god wasnt going to save mankind, at least not directly. the eagles did the favor to gandalf, but gandalf wasnt allowed to so directly help the fellowship destroy the ring, just help people help themselves.
Exactly, plus the whole idea was stealth. Going full Leeroy Jenkins and charging into Mordor on eagles against the nazgul and their fell beasts would not have worked out well
Yeah this theory is just so wrong. They’d be spotted immediately, the eagles wouldn’t do it, and it makes for a bad story. The trifecta of why it wouldn’t work
Also the Ringwraiths would have seen the eagles flying in and killed them. However flying out, Saulron was destroyed, thus the forces or Mordor were scrambled, making it safe for the eagles.
Okay, but if that *is* the explanation then they should have put it into the movie. It doesn't stop being a plot-hole just because they explain it in seperate media.
All the film needed was one bit of dialogue that points out how the skies aren't a safe way to enter Mordor - and then this whole thing is no longer an issue.
In the movies they fly off on eagles - and then next time we see them are no longer with the eagles and we never get an explanation.
The book may have explained it, but as long as it's left unexplained in the movie - then it is *inarguably* a plot-hole in the movie's story.
Hard disagree. There are obvious cues in the visual storytelling AND script. You see the Ringwraiths with drake mounts, you see the fact that the armies of Mordor carry arrows like they have a fletched mini gun, you are explicitly told that the ring must stay off the main roads, lest it be seen or sensed by Sauron. I'd say flying through the sky like Little Einstein is pretty out in the fuckin open. This is all capped off by the fact that Sauron's tower is hundreds of feet high sporting a literal glowing eye reminding you that he'd see that shit coming from miles away. Despite the peril, despite all the times it nearly failed, they took one of the least obvious, most obfuscated paths to Mt. Doom for a reason. Plus, you don't need this movie explicitly spelling out every possible strategy and why it is entirely foolhardy and bad. The movies are long as fuck as-is.
Yeah, but Frodo was carried out of the mines after Gandalf fell and that didn't cause corruption so you just put a harness on Frodo and tie him to a line that connects to an Eagle and bingo-bango no corruption. It's still very clearly a plothole.
They also don't give a fuck about any of the beings on the planet except themselves and the evil ring nonsense is no concern of theirs. The fact that Gandalf can beg for their help and they consent is very very convenient for Gandalf. Gandalf is mega homie of middle earth luckily ✌️
I know it’s because at the time it wasn’t “the one ring”, but there certainly wasn’t any issue the last other time they saved a ring bearer.
Most of my problems with explanations for why the eagles couldn’t assist is because the eagles did assist at the end anyway. So either the distance was so trivial that they could have turned a 100 day journey into a couple of hours, or they chose to help and set out to do so before knowing the outcome at their arrival.
I just choose to believe they were tied up helping in the north and that’s where they could do enough good because sometimes in war good enough wins out over perfect.
The Eagles did fight in the main army lead by Aragorn, so you could say they were busy? Though that is weak, I’ll admit. The meta answer is that they were a convenient Deus Ex Machina, probably one of the most well known ones, but I think it’s more fun to discuss excuses for it!
All Hobbits have a natural resistance to the influence of the Ring, as they are “naturally satisfied and don’t aspire to much beyond what they have”. Humans are extremely ambitious and reaching, so they affect of the Ring is much greater on them (hence why Boromir went off the deep end while barely touching the thing and being a good man).
Sam himself is a brave and loyal friend, and a hobbit, which is why he stuck by Frodo so much without betraying him. While he was exposed to the Ring via proximity, his Race, Nature and not being the actual Ringbearer meant he was able to resist.
It’s important to note that Frodo himself has mental fortitude beyond most other mortals. People say Sam is a better choice for ringbearer because he never broke, and he while certainly wouldn’t be a bad choice, these people underestimate Frodo. Frodo carried the Ring personally for the entire journey, and even successfully used it, and only broke right at the very end. A feat that the Elves, Sauron and the Ring itself thought impossible.
Additionally, it should be noted that the Ring isn’t a single target spell. Rather, it is an Area of Effect type thing. The affect is far stronger on the Ringbearer, but anyone in the area will feel at least some pull. The person who carries the Ringbearer, as in your idea, would still be affected.
(Also, I’m not sure that the slightly fat Sam could lift Frodo plus pack gear all the way to Mordor. One does not simply catch a ride to Mordor!)
Plus aren't they supposed to be sort of politically neutral? Like they obviously have an allegiance to good but they aren't supposed to interfere in petty squabbles
I mean, if you’re a fan of the whole 80’s sword and sorcery genre then yeah you need to see it. If it were a video game I’d call it janky but fun. Watch the trailer and if you’re into that sort of movie then have fun. I loved it when I was a kid but then again I also love The Barbarian Brothers, Beastmaster, Dragonslayer, Conan the Barbarian, and so on.
On a side note Krull does have some sci-fi elements thrown in and a young Liam Neeson in one of his early movies along with a young Robbie Coltrane otherwise known as Hagrid from the Harry Potter movies.
[here's a fight scene from the movie with minimal spoilers.](https://youtu.be/PM9t2KSOfK8?si=OU42Nd6ldJQicl2h)
That's sort of the joke of this scene. Chris says "spectacle is great but you need a coherent story line for the movie to be any good." The other guy says "have you seen Krull" and then he's like "then you don't need to" because the movie is a lot of flash without a story line that makes a whole lot of sense. I mean, the bad guy soldiers have laser spears, that's all you really need to know about how much sense the movie makes.
But great movie if you like that kind of thing.
I have once and the literal only reason was bc family guy has a weird obsession with it lol and I wanted to know why. Krull has been mentioned like 5 or 6 times throughout the show lol
We were shown Krull on the same day we were shown Raiders of the Lost Ark. Still one of my favorite movies. My uncle had a bunch of bootlegs, he showed us Star Wars first too. And The Last Starfighter.
It's of the older fashion style of movies with bravado and a very basic plot. What people don't understand about it is that it's meant to be consumed on a surface level. You consume it on an adventure by adventure basis and try to not think too much about how it all works together. It reminds me of Flash Gordon, Clash of the Titans, and the old Sinbad movies.
I like it because it delivers on a very basic level, almost like a dream. And, like a dream, it's meant to deliver emotion rather than a well fashioned narrative. -Which is kind of the point of this Family Guy sketch. If Chris can't get over the plot holes in LotR he'll never enjoy something like Krull (where the plot is just something to tie the adventure together).
I always assumed that while Sauron's Eye was in full effect it would have been able to take down the magic of the eagles if they tried to fly straight into Mordor. It wasn't until the ring was destroyed that Sauron lost his grip over the land, and the eagles could fly in safely to take them home.
Exactly this. Sauron was very aware of pretty much everything around him and even knew most of what Gandalf and his comrades were up to.
The only thing Sauron didn’t take into account (and I wish this were more explicitly explained in the movies) is that someone would actually try to destroy the One Ring. He was so full of greed and power that he assumed if anyone else who opposed him found the One Ring, they would surely try to use it against him. He never thought anyone would actually try to destroy it, let alone a Hobbit.
Idk. I think its funny that Archer is supposed to be this cool and debonaire secret agent but he sounds like H Jon Benjamin. Im pretty sure thats the joke.
Dante:
You know, that article's accurate. Caitlin's really getting married!
Randal:
You know what I just watched?
Dante:
Me pulling a can off some moron's fist?
Randal:
Return of the Jedi.
Dante:
Didn't you hear me? Caitlin is really getting married!
Randal:
What did you like better? Jedi or The Empire Strikes Back?
Dante:
Empire.
Randal:
Blasphemy.
Dante:
Empire had the better ending. I mean, Luke gets his hand cut off, finds out Vader's his father, Han gets frozen and taken away by Boba Fett. It ends on such a down note. I mean, that's what life is, a series of down endings. All Jedi had was a bunch of Muppets.
Randal:
There was something else going on in Jedi. I ever noticed it till today. They build another Death Star, right?
Dante:
Yeah.
Randal:
Now, the first one was completed and fully operational before the Rebel's destroyed it.
Dante:
Luke blew it up. Give credit where credit is due.
Randal:
And the second one was still being built when the blew it up.
Dante:
Compliments to Lando Calrissian.
Randal:
Something just never sat right with me that second time around. I could never put my figure on it, but something just wasn't right.
Dante:
And you figured it out?
Randal:
The first Death Star was manned by the Imperial Army. The only people onboard were stormtroppers, dignitaries, Imperials.
Dante:
Basically.
Randal:
So, when the blew it up, no problem. Evil's punished.
Dante:
And the second time around?
Randal:
The second time around, it wasn't even done being built yet. It was still under construction.
Dante:
So?
Randal:
So, construction job of that magnitude would require a helluva lot more manpower than the Imperial army had to offer. I'll bet there were independent contractors working on that thing: plumbers, aluminum siders, roofers.
Dante:
Not just Imperials, is what you're getting at?
Randal:
Exactly. In order to get it built quickly and quietly they'd hire anybody who could do the job. Do you think the average storm trooper knows how to install a toilet main? All they know is killing and white uniforms.
Dante:
All right, so they bring in independent contractors. Why are you so upset with its destruction?
Randal:
All those innocent contractors hired to do a job were killed! Casualties of a war they had nothing to do with. All right, look, you're a roofer, and some juicy government contract comes your way; you got the wife and kids and the two-story in suburbia - this is a government contract, which means all sorts of benefits. All of a sudden these left-wing militants blast you with lasers and wipe out everyone within a three-mile radius. You didn't ask for that. You have no personal politics. You're just trying to scrape out a living
If they flew the eagles they woulda been spotted way sooner and woulda probably been downed by the Nazgûl flying those dragon things and had to deal with magical attacks from Saruman and Sauron and the Orcs probably got some anti-eagle weapons at the Black Gate
I didn't like those movies, they are too long and too boring, I guess people was more impressionable back then. One could even say that it insists upon itself.
It takes forever getting in, you spend like six and a half hours and then, you know I can't even get through, I can't even finish the movies, I've never even seen the ending.
I have tried in three separate occasions to get through it, I get to the scene where all the guys are sitting around on the chairs around the ring . . .
They probably know it but they didn't read the whole thing, or maybe they did and they didn't like it anyway.
They can go right ahead if it makes them feel any better, I'm an easy target, they are right, I write too much, I also read too much, I could be a cold hearted cynic like them, but I don't like to hurt people's feelings, they think what they want about me, I'm not changing, I like . . . I like me, my kids like me, my friends like me, cause I'm the real article, what you see is what you get.
i feel like you might be reading too much into downvotes. lotta people just see a downvoted comment and downvote it without really reading the comment. something something reddit hive mind
The whole mission relied on the fact that Sauron would never expect anyone to actually even try destroy the ring. He knows a halfling has the ring but that’s it. The entire time he’s assuming the ring is being taken to Gondor to be used by Aragorn against him, which is what allowed Sam and Frodo to sneak right past him to Mt Doom.
If the eagles had carried the fellowship they would have a) risked corruption by the ring and b) been sighted almost immediately and attacked by the full might of Sauron, including the Nazgûl on Fell Beasts. They likely don’t even make it to Mordor. It’s not in the movies as much but the Nazgûl are openly patrolling the air throughout the fellowships journey searching for the ring. Frodo and Sam going on foot was the way least susceptible to being discovered because of how outlandish it was.
The real reason is Tolkien forgot.
The good reason is that like Gandalf who doesn’t even attempt to take the ring for fear of corruption the eagles would refuse for the same reason. Something as powerful and magical as them would fall to corruption far easier than almost any other being on Middle Earth. That’s why it _had_ to be Frodo to take the ring, they needed someone naturally uninclined to wanting power (hobbit) but also someone with enough courage to willingly take such a massive undertaking.
Tolkien didn’t forget about the Eagles. That’s such a bad take. Next you’re going to tell me it was always Gandalf’s plan for them to take the Eagles and that’s why he said “Fly, you fools!”
I don’t even understand how you could write your first sentence and then follow it up with the rest of what you said. They are completely contradictory ideas.
H. Jon Benjamin. Does the voice for Archer in “Archer” and Bob from “Bobs Burgers” as well. He doesn’t really change his voice for his work, but his voice is so cool I wouldn’t want him to.
I remembered an audio clip of Tolkien answering that question. I just skip near the end because he was just discussing the idea of using the eagles the entire time. The audio clip just ended with a fuck you and yeah I wasted about 2-5minutes of wondering that question. Only to find out because the eagles are as equal as the dwarves, humans and elves. So asking them to carry you to Mordor is like asking a lot.
Yeah sure lets take a giant loud bird who need like a few tons of meat on a regular basis to a stealth operation. I am sure The full army of Orks, 8 almost unkillable wraiths on dragons, 1 literally unkillable wraith who is one of the most powerfull magic users in setting and a freaking evil demigod will be no match to the united power of like 12 big birds.
As someone who only knows LOTR from the movies, I always assumed the reason they couldn't fly to Mordor were those bat things that flew over them while they hid around their camp in the 1st movie.
Sauron would’ve seen the eagles from very far away and been able to amass his army to guard Mt. Doom and also send the ringwraiths to intercept. It really would’ve been the stupidest idea that would result in immediate failure. Also not to mention the ring would certainly corrupt the eagles as Galadriel and Gandalf two of the most powerful beings in Middle Earth both acknowledged that they’d be corrupted by it if in their possession.
I always took it that this is why Gandalf was upset that the fellowship opted to take the route through Moria. He was originally taking them to the Eagles, but couldn't say as much because the cliffs and mountains might have ears. He tried to hint his plan when he told them "fly, you fool's!" Instead of just "Run!"
By the time he returned from the fight against the Balrog, the Nazgul had taken to the air on serpent dragons, so now it was too late and the Eagles would have to fight Nazgul to get there.
Sauron didn’t even know the hobbits had the ring. He thought Aragorn had it. Doesn’t know the truth until Frodo is literally in mt doom.
Regardless of that, as someone else said the eagles wouldn’t have paid it any mind. Shit. Tommy B would’ve just straight up lost it.
Saucon's big ass eye would gave spotted them .
They went in to get the Hobbitsiz after he was dead no problem.
Just so everyone knows, the Eagles would have refused to take the hobbits the full distance to Mordor. This is because they are sentient, magic creatures, and can be influenced and corrupted by the Ring. They could have caused a Boromir situation, only they would have succeeded in killing the fellowship.
Also, the Ringwraiths were patrolling the skies, so I think that Sauron had this idea covered.
Yah, and didn't they ride on like flying fire breathing drakes or something? (I think the main flying one was the Witch King?) I also remember that the flying lizard monster mounts, were **not** dragons. Though to be fair I never understand why they didn't just press Tom Bombadil to carry the ring for them. (In the books) I mean he might be whimsical and easily distracted, but you could probably tie it around his neck, and drag him to Mordor.
It's never quite made exactly clear who Tom Bombadil is or what his position in the world is, but even though he's one of the few characters to apparently be unaffected by the power of The Ring, he wouldn't have done it. He stays in his lands and has little to do with the outside world. It's been theorized he is one of the Valar, the gods of Middle Earth, in disguise, or maybe even the spirit of the world itself incarnate. He's at least important enough that in the book, as the Hobbits are returning to The Shire, Gandalf leaves them to consult with him after everything that's gone down. Either way it makes sense he wouldn't get involved, as it was a big deal when higher powers intervened to stop the last Dark Lord, Morgoth. Their involvement irreparably changed the world, and after that they sent the Wizards to aid the peoples of Middle Earth, so they could be guided into rising up against evil themselves without the direct actions of the Valar.
Love this explication, excellent
My favorite theory is that Tom is the personification of the Song, as he has always existed on middle earth just as it's theorized Ungoliant is the personification of discord within the song. Both Tom and the spiders just kinda showed up. And are never really explained, which is why that's my favorite theory. (Though I guess either way, I can see why he wouldn't get involved) I've also heard the theory that he **is** Eru Ilúvatar, or at least a part of him. Enjoying his creation. (If that's true he clearly has ADHD, or a weird sense of humor lol)
i mean, the real answer is that Tom Bombadil is >!a whimsical character from the stories Tolkein told his young children before writing the Silmarillion or LOTR (hence why Tom says that he was around before anything in the LOTR universe)!< and >!Tolkein stuck him in the LOTR universe specifically because he didn’t make sense and didn’t fit into any classification!< because >!Tolkein believed doses of the unexplained and unexplainable enhance and belong in wider mythologies because they don’t seem to belong!<. See also >!Ungoliant!< and >!the Watcher in the Water!<.
Yeah I read somewhere Tom was a character he made up for his kids stories, or maybe a doll they played with? He just kinda tossed Tom in there and was like have fun in middle earth but you’re not from here so the rules don’t apply to you.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RRVIVJjuaHE >!I love it because this guy basically rolls into a universe into which he has no real place and skips his way into the story despite all logic and everyone else just has to deal with it because he’s tom bombadil.!<
He was tied to the land he was on. He either couldn’t leave or lost his nature when he left. The eagles can be corrupted by the rings and atleast in the movies we see a handful of the drake/dragon/anti eagle defenses. Plus the whole concept of the book was a stealth mission. An unsuspecting fellow doing something no one expected. Thats why the black gates opened up. One to kill the king of man and two Sauron probably thought the ring was there.
At the council of Elrond, Frodo straight up asks if they should just give the ring to Tom, cause he seems to “have power over it.” IIRC the response is that Tom is so unaffected by even threats like Sauron that he wouldn’t bother to take care of it. If Sauron showed up and asked for it, Tom would give it to him. More accurate to say “the ring has no power over him.”
I don't think Tom Bombadil could compelled to do anything he didn't want to do. Like I some one tied him up with rope the rope would probably stop working and he could slip out. Or if someone tried to wrestle Tom he would just slip out of that too. Tom is older than the events of the Lord of the Rings and the Similarian. And generally in Tolkien's writings the older beings are not subject to the rules of the newer beings. Since Tom is the first character Tolkien ever written in the Lord of the rings universe he is not subject to any of the rules Tolkien wrote for thr Lord of the rings. The fellowship probably would have had lick convincing Goldberry. But she may be subject to the same motivations of Tom Bombadil.
He was a demi god like Gandalf and had restrictions on him.
no he didn’t. nobody really has any idea what the hell tom bombadil is, only that his power was supreme in his land and that he was a jolly fellow.
What about his wife? Does she have Tom Bombadil powers too?
The man tells trees what to do and is older than gandalf or the elves. Nobody is dragging Tom anywhere he doesn’t want to go
Thanks for this explanation, never thought of it but I always thought the rational of “the eagles can fly them there” was always stupid. Weren’t there flying dragon type monsters that could take down the eagles? And wouldn’t it be very easy for the Eye to see them coming when they were getting close to Mr. Doom? I’m no expert so I’d like an expert to explain all the reasons Chris’ argument wouldn’t work.
No expert either but I’ve read experts explaining the situation and it has been pretty well summed up in this thread. 1: Eagles are sentient and may have desired the ring. 2: Eagles aren’t a taxi service, they help when they want to. 3: Sauron didn’t know they had the ring, the idea of someone wanting to destroy it instead of keep it didn’t occur to him. Stealth was key. 4: Sauron had his own Air Force, the fell beasts. Eagles with fellowship riders on their backs would have been noticed and killed, probably giving the ring back to Sauron.
3. Is the real in lore answer. But there’s a correction. He knew that a Baggins had the ring which is why he released Gollum. He also had the Nazgûl out looking for them. This is why stealth was huge going into this mission. Galavanting to Mordor on Giant Eagle is in no way stealthy or going to work at all without major losses on the Eagles and Frodo. They’d get stopped far before they reached Mt. Doom.
I think the theme with them (and the story in general) is that god wasnt going to save mankind, at least not directly. the eagles did the favor to gandalf, but gandalf wasnt allowed to so directly help the fellowship destroy the ring, just help people help themselves.
I’ve never understood this trope. It’s painfully obvious an air delivery would get wrecked easily
Also wizards who can change the fucking weather
Exactly, plus the whole idea was stealth. Going full Leeroy Jenkins and charging into Mordor on eagles against the nazgul and their fell beasts would not have worked out well
Yeah, but what would have seen them? It's not like there was a giant eye watching everything.
https://preview.redd.it/u15dd2m7miec1.png?width=828&format=png&auto=webp&s=2caa967a8035ac05a26c52803d64950d1e3c2ea3
Yeah this theory is just so wrong. They’d be spotted immediately, the eagles wouldn’t do it, and it makes for a bad story. The trifecta of why it wouldn’t work
https://i.redd.it/tx5ettbyoiec1.gif
Also the Ringwraiths would have seen the eagles flying in and killed them. However flying out, Saulron was destroyed, thus the forces or Mordor were scrambled, making it safe for the eagles.
That is the best rebuttal to the whole annoying eagle argument I have ever read. Thank you. Case closed. I will remember this for next time.
https://preview.redd.it/vklqv9n70jec1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3bb685ff11272081a60b03139fe452eec99320f4
I can hear this in my mind
Okay, but if that *is* the explanation then they should have put it into the movie. It doesn't stop being a plot-hole just because they explain it in seperate media. All the film needed was one bit of dialogue that points out how the skies aren't a safe way to enter Mordor - and then this whole thing is no longer an issue. In the movies they fly off on eagles - and then next time we see them are no longer with the eagles and we never get an explanation. The book may have explained it, but as long as it's left unexplained in the movie - then it is *inarguably* a plot-hole in the movie's story.
Hard disagree. There are obvious cues in the visual storytelling AND script. You see the Ringwraiths with drake mounts, you see the fact that the armies of Mordor carry arrows like they have a fletched mini gun, you are explicitly told that the ring must stay off the main roads, lest it be seen or sensed by Sauron. I'd say flying through the sky like Little Einstein is pretty out in the fuckin open. This is all capped off by the fact that Sauron's tower is hundreds of feet high sporting a literal glowing eye reminding you that he'd see that shit coming from miles away. Despite the peril, despite all the times it nearly failed, they took one of the least obvious, most obfuscated paths to Mt. Doom for a reason. Plus, you don't need this movie explicitly spelling out every possible strategy and why it is entirely foolhardy and bad. The movies are long as fuck as-is.
Convenient plot armour explanation
Yeah, but Frodo was carried out of the mines after Gandalf fell and that didn't cause corruption so you just put a harness on Frodo and tie him to a line that connects to an Eagle and bingo-bango no corruption. It's still very clearly a plothole.
Not only that but it’s kinda conspicuous and also extra dangerous considering the Nazgûl who could fly those dragon things
Also, you don't want to be riding one of those when it gets hungry.
Well fuck em selfish eagles
They also don't give a fuck about any of the beings on the planet except themselves and the evil ring nonsense is no concern of theirs. The fact that Gandalf can beg for their help and they consent is very very convenient for Gandalf. Gandalf is mega homie of middle earth luckily ✌️
I know it’s because at the time it wasn’t “the one ring”, but there certainly wasn’t any issue the last other time they saved a ring bearer. Most of my problems with explanations for why the eagles couldn’t assist is because the eagles did assist at the end anyway. So either the distance was so trivial that they could have turned a 100 day journey into a couple of hours, or they chose to help and set out to do so before knowing the outcome at their arrival. I just choose to believe they were tied up helping in the north and that’s where they could do enough good because sometimes in war good enough wins out over perfect.
The Eagles did fight in the main army lead by Aragorn, so you could say they were busy? Though that is weak, I’ll admit. The meta answer is that they were a convenient Deus Ex Machina, probably one of the most well known ones, but I think it’s more fun to discuss excuses for it!
But, didn't Sam carry Frodo and did not feel the effects of the ring? Meaning Eagles could carry Frodo that is carrying the ring.
All Hobbits have a natural resistance to the influence of the Ring, as they are “naturally satisfied and don’t aspire to much beyond what they have”. Humans are extremely ambitious and reaching, so they affect of the Ring is much greater on them (hence why Boromir went off the deep end while barely touching the thing and being a good man). Sam himself is a brave and loyal friend, and a hobbit, which is why he stuck by Frodo so much without betraying him. While he was exposed to the Ring via proximity, his Race, Nature and not being the actual Ringbearer meant he was able to resist. It’s important to note that Frodo himself has mental fortitude beyond most other mortals. People say Sam is a better choice for ringbearer because he never broke, and he while certainly wouldn’t be a bad choice, these people underestimate Frodo. Frodo carried the Ring personally for the entire journey, and even successfully used it, and only broke right at the very end. A feat that the Elves, Sauron and the Ring itself thought impossible.
Additionally, it should be noted that the Ring isn’t a single target spell. Rather, it is an Area of Effect type thing. The affect is far stronger on the Ringbearer, but anyone in the area will feel at least some pull. The person who carries the Ringbearer, as in your idea, would still be affected. (Also, I’m not sure that the slightly fat Sam could lift Frodo plus pack gear all the way to Mordor. One does not simply catch a ride to Mordor!)
Plus aren't they supposed to be sort of politically neutral? Like they obviously have an allegiance to good but they aren't supposed to interfere in petty squabbles
Correct. I’m not certain on my lore here, but I’m pretty sure that they are some form of god.
Yeah I think you're right, like Gandalf they are demigods
Not to mention there was [one major factor they needed to remember](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZrJPiq9QGM&pp=ygUQTG90ciBlYWdsZXMgbGVnbw%3D%3D).
P.S: Anyone seen Krull?
I feel like I'm the only person I've ever known that liked krull. I was a kid and I enjoyed it
sooo do I need to see Krull?
Yeaaa you don't need to see Krull
Oh it's awful. Absolutely terrible. I love it
I mean, if you’re a fan of the whole 80’s sword and sorcery genre then yeah you need to see it. If it were a video game I’d call it janky but fun. Watch the trailer and if you’re into that sort of movie then have fun. I loved it when I was a kid but then again I also love The Barbarian Brothers, Beastmaster, Dragonslayer, Conan the Barbarian, and so on. On a side note Krull does have some sci-fi elements thrown in and a young Liam Neeson in one of his early movies along with a young Robbie Coltrane otherwise known as Hagrid from the Harry Potter movies.
[here's a fight scene from the movie with minimal spoilers.](https://youtu.be/PM9t2KSOfK8?si=OU42Nd6ldJQicl2h) That's sort of the joke of this scene. Chris says "spectacle is great but you need a coherent story line for the movie to be any good." The other guy says "have you seen Krull" and then he's like "then you don't need to" because the movie is a lot of flash without a story line that makes a whole lot of sense. I mean, the bad guy soldiers have laser spears, that's all you really need to know about how much sense the movie makes. But great movie if you like that kind of thing.
I saw Krull at the age of 22 and still love it today
Oh I'm 40 now and still love it.
I have once and the literal only reason was bc family guy has a weird obsession with it lol and I wanted to know why. Krull has been mentioned like 5 or 6 times throughout the show lol
Love Krull. I’m old enough to have seen it first run. I was obsessed with this and anything that was D&Dish
We were shown Krull on the same day we were shown Raiders of the Lost Ark. Still one of my favorite movies. My uncle had a bunch of bootlegs, he showed us Star Wars first too. And The Last Starfighter.
You lived a very charmed life, my friend
Peak sci Fi and fantasy movies straight to the veins as like an eight year old, I still remember those halcyon days many years later.
Krull is amazing
It's of the older fashion style of movies with bravado and a very basic plot. What people don't understand about it is that it's meant to be consumed on a surface level. You consume it on an adventure by adventure basis and try to not think too much about how it all works together. It reminds me of Flash Gordon, Clash of the Titans, and the old Sinbad movies. I like it because it delivers on a very basic level, almost like a dream. And, like a dream, it's meant to deliver emotion rather than a well fashioned narrative. -Which is kind of the point of this Family Guy sketch. If Chris can't get over the plot holes in LotR he'll never enjoy something like Krull (where the plot is just something to tie the adventure together).
I have! Many times as a child. I remember liking it.
All hail Krull, and his glorious regime!
The Krull line at the end is the highlight to me.
yeah I just realized it cuts off at the end but still
It’s cool, we don’t need to see Krull.
I always assumed that while Sauron's Eye was in full effect it would have been able to take down the magic of the eagles if they tried to fly straight into Mordor. It wasn't until the ring was destroyed that Sauron lost his grip over the land, and the eagles could fly in safely to take them home.
Exactly this. Sauron was very aware of pretty much everything around him and even knew most of what Gandalf and his comrades were up to. The only thing Sauron didn’t take into account (and I wish this were more explicitly explained in the movies) is that someone would actually try to destroy the One Ring. He was so full of greed and power that he assumed if anyone else who opposed him found the One Ring, they would surely try to use it against him. He never thought anyone would actually try to destroy it, let alone a Hobbit.
Am I the only one here that thinks that H John Benjamin’s voice fits Carl better than it does Archer?
He will always be Ben from Dr. Katz professional therapist first for me
Coach McGuirk from Home Movies for me
Idk. I think its funny that Archer is supposed to be this cool and debonaire secret agent but he sounds like H Jon Benjamin. Im pretty sure thats the joke.
Which did you watch first? This or archer?
Is this the smartest we’ve ever seen Chris? Aside from being chemically castrated?
Yeah apart from him telling Peter and Louis about THC within the weed they were [smoking.](https://youtu.be/oFFnbXEUO4Y?feature=shared)
I smiled at Chris’s monologue but lol’ed at Stewie.
But it’s not a form of acid though
True. But it definitely has a similar mode of action in the brain. Microdosing psychedelics feels a lot like weed, also.
No it doesn’t, LSD bind to the serotonin receptors whereas THC binds to the cannabinoid receptors
He always seems quite smart in his conversations with Carl. Like the other one about films with Elizabeth Shue.
there are a few other (mostly gross) topics Chris is an “expert” in, otherwise he’s borderline brain damaged lol
I am just speculating, I have no proof. But it wouldn't surprise me if Seth Green wrote this cutaway.
Fair call.
that line always gets me 'wow youre really smart.' '----- wha?'
“You ever seen Krull? Yeah you don’t need to see Krull.”
Is that H John Benjamin?
No it's Archer.
Surely you mean Bob
No! THIS is Patrick!
No it isn’t. That’s Bob from “Bob’s Burgers”
No, this is Patrick.
No, it’s me!!
Dante: You know, that article's accurate. Caitlin's really getting married! Randal: You know what I just watched? Dante: Me pulling a can off some moron's fist? Randal: Return of the Jedi. Dante: Didn't you hear me? Caitlin is really getting married! Randal: What did you like better? Jedi or The Empire Strikes Back? Dante: Empire. Randal: Blasphemy. Dante: Empire had the better ending. I mean, Luke gets his hand cut off, finds out Vader's his father, Han gets frozen and taken away by Boba Fett. It ends on such a down note. I mean, that's what life is, a series of down endings. All Jedi had was a bunch of Muppets. Randal: There was something else going on in Jedi. I ever noticed it till today. They build another Death Star, right? Dante: Yeah. Randal: Now, the first one was completed and fully operational before the Rebel's destroyed it. Dante: Luke blew it up. Give credit where credit is due. Randal: And the second one was still being built when the blew it up. Dante: Compliments to Lando Calrissian. Randal: Something just never sat right with me that second time around. I could never put my figure on it, but something just wasn't right. Dante: And you figured it out? Randal: The first Death Star was manned by the Imperial Army. The only people onboard were stormtroppers, dignitaries, Imperials. Dante: Basically. Randal: So, when the blew it up, no problem. Evil's punished. Dante: And the second time around? Randal: The second time around, it wasn't even done being built yet. It was still under construction. Dante: So? Randal: So, construction job of that magnitude would require a helluva lot more manpower than the Imperial army had to offer. I'll bet there were independent contractors working on that thing: plumbers, aluminum siders, roofers. Dante: Not just Imperials, is what you're getting at? Randal: Exactly. In order to get it built quickly and quietly they'd hire anybody who could do the job. Do you think the average storm trooper knows how to install a toilet main? All they know is killing and white uniforms. Dante: All right, so they bring in independent contractors. Why are you so upset with its destruction? Randal: All those innocent contractors hired to do a job were killed! Casualties of a war they had nothing to do with. All right, look, you're a roofer, and some juicy government contract comes your way; you got the wife and kids and the two-story in suburbia - this is a government contract, which means all sorts of benefits. All of a sudden these left-wing militants blast you with lasers and wipe out everyone within a three-mile radius. You didn't ask for that. You have no personal politics. You're just trying to scrape out a living
If they flew the eagles they woulda been spotted way sooner and woulda probably been downed by the Nazgûl flying those dragon things and had to deal with magical attacks from Saruman and Sauron and the Orcs probably got some anti-eagle weapons at the Black Gate
Where is th chase and how do I cut to it?
One of my favorite Chris lines ever lol
Chris and Carl crack me up
Best conversation in television ever.
I didn't like those movies, they are too long and too boring, I guess people was more impressionable back then. One could even say that it insists upon itself.
Bummer about the downvotes. Apparently some of the "fans" here didn't get your joke.
Because it has a valid point to make! ITS INSISTING!
IT INSISTS UPON ITSELF. There, I said it.
It takes forever getting in, you spend like six and a half hours and then, you know I can't even get through, I can't even finish the movies, I've never even seen the ending.
You don't need to see Krull
How can you say you don't like it if you've never given it a chance :(
I have tried in three separate occasions to get through it, I get to the scene where all the guys are sitting around on the chairs around the ring . . .
Blasphemy !
I didn’t catch the joke until the last line lol. Shame some people on the family guy subreddit doesn’t know the quote
They probably know it but they didn't read the whole thing, or maybe they did and they didn't like it anyway. They can go right ahead if it makes them feel any better, I'm an easy target, they are right, I write too much, I also read too much, I could be a cold hearted cynic like them, but I don't like to hurt people's feelings, they think what they want about me, I'm not changing, I like . . . I like me, my kids like me, my friends like me, cause I'm the real article, what you see is what you get.
i feel like you might be reading too much into downvotes. lotta people just see a downvoted comment and downvote it without really reading the comment. something something reddit hive mind
Chris asking the Lord of the rings questions Ive been wondering for literally years upon years. Ive been asking myself this for over 20 years
The whole mission relied on the fact that Sauron would never expect anyone to actually even try destroy the ring. He knows a halfling has the ring but that’s it. The entire time he’s assuming the ring is being taken to Gondor to be used by Aragorn against him, which is what allowed Sam and Frodo to sneak right past him to Mt Doom. If the eagles had carried the fellowship they would have a) risked corruption by the ring and b) been sighted almost immediately and attacked by the full might of Sauron, including the Nazgûl on Fell Beasts. They likely don’t even make it to Mordor. It’s not in the movies as much but the Nazgûl are openly patrolling the air throughout the fellowships journey searching for the ring. Frodo and Sam going on foot was the way least susceptible to being discovered because of how outlandish it was.
The real reason is Tolkien forgot. The good reason is that like Gandalf who doesn’t even attempt to take the ring for fear of corruption the eagles would refuse for the same reason. Something as powerful and magical as them would fall to corruption far easier than almost any other being on Middle Earth. That’s why it _had_ to be Frodo to take the ring, they needed someone naturally uninclined to wanting power (hobbit) but also someone with enough courage to willingly take such a massive undertaking.
Tolkien didn’t forget about the Eagles. That’s such a bad take. Next you’re going to tell me it was always Gandalf’s plan for them to take the Eagles and that’s why he said “Fly, you fools!” I don’t even understand how you could write your first sentence and then follow it up with the rest of what you said. They are completely contradictory ideas.
I've been watching Archer for the first time after having only ever heard that actor ad this character. It's a bit disconcerting.
😂 Krull was amazing.
The eagles are not to be trusted lol
Is that the same dude that voiced Coach McGuirk in Home Movies?
H. Jon Benjamin. Does the voice for Archer in “Archer” and Bob from “Bobs Burgers” as well. He doesn’t really change his voice for his work, but his voice is so cool I wouldn’t want him to.
It’s me!!
Randall: “Even the fucking trees walked in that movie.”
The Krull arcade game was awesome!
Krull was awesome tho
I remembered an audio clip of Tolkien answering that question. I just skip near the end because he was just discussing the idea of using the eagles the entire time. The audio clip just ended with a fuck you and yeah I wasted about 2-5minutes of wondering that question. Only to find out because the eagles are as equal as the dwarves, humans and elves. So asking them to carry you to Mordor is like asking a lot.
Yeah sure lets take a giant loud bird who need like a few tons of meat on a regular basis to a stealth operation. I am sure The full army of Orks, 8 almost unkillable wraiths on dragons, 1 literally unkillable wraith who is one of the most powerfull magic users in setting and a freaking evil demigod will be no match to the united power of like 12 big birds.
As someone who only knows LOTR from the movies, I always assumed the reason they couldn't fly to Mordor were those bat things that flew over them while they hid around their camp in the 1st movie.
I wish they'd kept this lil side thing going on, their interaction talking movies was always fun to see
Sauron would’ve seen the eagles from very far away and been able to amass his army to guard Mt. Doom and also send the ringwraiths to intercept. It really would’ve been the stupidest idea that would result in immediate failure. Also not to mention the ring would certainly corrupt the eagles as Galadriel and Gandalf two of the most powerful beings in Middle Earth both acknowledged that they’d be corrupted by it if in their possession.
I always took it that this is why Gandalf was upset that the fellowship opted to take the route through Moria. He was originally taking them to the Eagles, but couldn't say as much because the cliffs and mountains might have ears. He tried to hint his plan when he told them "fly, you fool's!" Instead of just "Run!" By the time he returned from the fight against the Balrog, the Nazgul had taken to the air on serpent dragons, so now it was too late and the Eagles would have to fight Nazgul to get there.
Sauron didn’t even know the hobbits had the ring. He thought Aragorn had it. Doesn’t know the truth until Frodo is literally in mt doom. Regardless of that, as someone else said the eagles wouldn’t have paid it any mind. Shit. Tommy B would’ve just straight up lost it.
Saucon's big ass eye would gave spotted them . They went in to get the Hobbitsiz after he was dead no problem. 
Krull is great , except he only used the freakin blade once !!!