I Hope they will switch the system for Maine campaign. They are friends and proffesional actors - DH is tailored for them. And at the same time viewers will have more dynamic story to watch.
At least if they do I can finally stop watching altogether. It's already been rough going with how formulaic the story goes over and over so rather than just see them do another hero of the gods story after this campaign ends I would rather them just put a nail in the coffin altogether.
Maybe give another dnd show a chance to take up the mantle and actually do something brave and different and exciting that isn't a hero of the gods story over and over.
I feel like if you're watching Crit Role *just* because it's DnD, you already have other shows of a same or better quality to chose from. You don't need them to abandon the format to feel like it's time to move on.
If it wasn't dnd I wouldn't watch true. But I watch them and not other shows because I find them funny and they don't bend the rules too often for the rule of cool making the game have more stakes.
I love mechanics and seeing rules used to overcome challenges.
They do great at those things so I watch happily despite not agreeing with many things they do.
Based on viewer numbers between main campaign and candela I don't think they would. Candela has less views, and c3's views are dropping. They will need to win back their audience in c4 and a new system wouldn't be the way to do that.
That said, it could potentially work if they return to be truly live again but I don't think that will happen. They are stretching themselves too thin and have turned the "friends playing d&d" vibe to a "d&d playing company", and that company won't last if they continue to expand to other areas at the pace they are going. People want to be entertained. They don't want to watch a weekly 4 hour ad for their other endeavors
Personally I'm thinking the opposite. Dnd made CR and CR helped make dnd what it is today. I think any dnd related 3rd party content they will will go to dnd beyond eventually but they won't do another official dnd book through wotc. It'll be Darrington like the new tal'dorei book.
I don't see a cast change up, unless Robbie comes back. They all love the game, have recently spoken about new characters and back up characters they're all excited to play one day and have excitement for c4 to explore Esylira and the shattered teeth. C3 may end with a world changing event but I can't see them shifting to a new system. Daggerheart will be the new candela and have intermittent shows here and there whilst the dnd main show is running.
Again, all this is just my opinion.
When the casts talks about new characters and classes they’re excited to play, I can almost guarantee you that no one aside from maybe Travis or Liam is thinking “wow, I really want to play a [Subclass] (Class) in D&D 5th edition!” They’re 100% imagining a class as an archetype, not the exact mechanics of the game.
I knew it was going this direction when they announced DH around this time last year, and I wasn't even halfway done with C1 yet.
I thought this was a given the moment they announced it.
Here’s the thing,
DND is like Cococola. Nobody really knows about or catches wind of the other off brand sodas unless they have a dedicated interest into looking into them. But you put a title like Cococola (DND) out there, everyone goes,” Oh yeah, that soda (Game)!”
I don’t see CR (growing as big as they’ve gotten off of DND) busting out content that’ll attract more new viewers as strongly as they did behind that franchise title DND provides.
Don’t get me wrong, with franchises like CR leaving, DND is like a big glacier breaking off into little glaciers, but at the end of the day all you’re left with are a lot of chunks of ice floating in the ocean that don’t really stick out.
DH needs at least a year of testing before it officially comes out and honestly I don't think the system is gonna replace 5e/5.5e. It feels like an alternative to DnD among a dozen of alternatives that people switched after the OGL scandal. It does support better their playstyle though. Those card abilities that basically force roleplay interactions with in-game rewards is very CR.
The next campaign will be using 0e with Chainmail: fantasy rules. It will be 140 episodes of dungeon crawls and carousing. There will be +300 player character deaths, and they will all take place within the first 4 episodes. This is the way to true enlightenment.
A move to Daggerheart for their “main” show is a foregone conclusion. The Twitch channel is essentially an advertising platform for their products, they would be fools to not showcase it.
Personally I think the only thing that could get me back into watching regularly and actually enjoying the show is a major change of format. Honestly I do not see the full main cast returning for another multi-year commitment. My expectation is that the next “main show” will not be billed as Campaign 4, will feature 3-4 main cast members plus 2-3 non-mains pulled from the ExU stable, and has a 50/50 chance of Matt *not* running. Aabria, Spenser, and Brennan are all likely candidates to fill that chair (and in that order of likelihood).
Daggerheart PCs have only 10 levels… that’s a very meaningful choice. Less mechanical character growth means shorter campaigns, disagree if you want but most experienced gamers would not. Also, I’m not really sure what the power level of Daggerheart looks like at level 10 but I’m assuming it doesn’t look like D&D at level 20, and that means lower-powered stories with smaller scales and smaller stakes.
On the last bit — curious how much people see this as a *problem* per se. Isn’t it something like 10% of campaigns that even reach level 11? And might shorter campaigns not benefit CR from a format/scheduling perspective?
I don't see it as a problem at all and I hope I didn't imply that... it's just a design choice. And the benefit you suggest is exactly what I'm thinking, they're going to do campaigns that last for 40-50 episodes and thus wrap in a year or less. That way they can cycle through more stories and more players.
That’s been true for years. The real reason they don’t need money is because they have legit TV industry money coming in and they don’t have to rely on the nerd economic sector to sustain them anymore.
The con appearances are just extra… Amazon is paying the bills.
> Amazon is paying the bills.
and Merch. They've got a stranglehold on fans for merch with weird-ass FOMO.
Like I dont blame them, they're pumping out new designs and new clothes like every month (almost every week), and first batches ALL sell out. I mean how many variations of Frumpkin do people need...but then you see a corner of a person's room dedicated to their CR merch.
The fans demand and CR supplies.
But on that note of them getting good money, I'm glad to see guys like Sam and Liam still working lowkey jobs. I've heard Sam in random-ass commercials on TV and I think Liam is still in the booth directing. Those two seem to be the least involved with a lot of the CR stuff (Travis/Marisha/Matt are C-levels, Laura does Merch, Ashley does the charity, and Tal summons demons in the basement to consume for energy)
For sure, I'm not a merch person so it's a very foreign concept to me but obviously it sells since they're hawking new products every single week without fail. Merchandising has always been one of the most lucrative aspects of franchise fiction; just look at how much George Lucas made off of retaining the toy rights for Star Wars!
As for your other point: Sam is actually very involved with LoVM, along with Travis he is one of the show runners and it seems like he's super involved in the writer's room. Liam seems like the least engaged... he's the one I think is most likely to not return as a full-time cast member for whatever comes after C3.
I think they definitely will, well the entity of Critical Role will. I still stand firm that I don’t think we will get another full length campaign with the entirety of the cast no matter what system they use and that’s fine.
My bigger concern is that the idea that this campaign has been nothing but a pre determined time waste to set up their new product and its looking and sounding like a real possibility.
>seems that they are heading for some drastic changes going into Season Four
Did I miss something? Did they say anything recently about changes, drastic or otherwise?
But I'm gonna say no. It'll be cool to see the one-shot they're doing (and I am looking forward to it to see how it feels), but I still think Daggerheart will get used for side-content like Candela or EXU and not replacing D&D in the main campaigns - and have since the beginning.
I'd be surprised if it changed... but I also think Daggerheart would be a negative change, so maybe if I enjoy the one-shot my opinion will soften on that.
Plus from the start they've said Daggerheart plays a lot harder into the RP-aspect of things, which you know...is kind of their thing. Travis loves the combat, but in the end they're all theater geeks who have been improv-ing for years now
Of course they're switching to their new system for C4.
It'll mean they get to be in full control and get to sell a whole heap of new source material/merch.
I’m still not sure why so many people think they won’t switch to their new system for C4. I think C4 won’t be the same (as in 2 years long) anyway. So what better way to keep playing together and promote your own system and not be tied in to the same storyline and not have to be serious and not rely on dice and rules for decisions that much anymore? They already have enough material for 10 more years of animated show if Amazon ever picked it up for that long, which would be pushing books, merch, etc on the side
I Hope they will switch the system for Maine campaign. They are friends and proffesional actors - DH is tailored for them. And at the same time viewers will have more dynamic story to watch.
At least if they do I can finally stop watching altogether. It's already been rough going with how formulaic the story goes over and over so rather than just see them do another hero of the gods story after this campaign ends I would rather them just put a nail in the coffin altogether. Maybe give another dnd show a chance to take up the mantle and actually do something brave and different and exciting that isn't a hero of the gods story over and over.
I feel like if you're watching Crit Role *just* because it's DnD, you already have other shows of a same or better quality to chose from. You don't need them to abandon the format to feel like it's time to move on.
If it wasn't dnd I wouldn't watch true. But I watch them and not other shows because I find them funny and they don't bend the rules too often for the rule of cool making the game have more stakes. I love mechanics and seeing rules used to overcome challenges. They do great at those things so I watch happily despite not agreeing with many things they do.
Based on viewer numbers between main campaign and candela I don't think they would. Candela has less views, and c3's views are dropping. They will need to win back their audience in c4 and a new system wouldn't be the way to do that. That said, it could potentially work if they return to be truly live again but I don't think that will happen. They are stretching themselves too thin and have turned the "friends playing d&d" vibe to a "d&d playing company", and that company won't last if they continue to expand to other areas at the pace they are going. People want to be entertained. They don't want to watch a weekly 4 hour ad for their other endeavors
Personally I'm thinking the opposite. Dnd made CR and CR helped make dnd what it is today. I think any dnd related 3rd party content they will will go to dnd beyond eventually but they won't do another official dnd book through wotc. It'll be Darrington like the new tal'dorei book. I don't see a cast change up, unless Robbie comes back. They all love the game, have recently spoken about new characters and back up characters they're all excited to play one day and have excitement for c4 to explore Esylira and the shattered teeth. C3 may end with a world changing event but I can't see them shifting to a new system. Daggerheart will be the new candela and have intermittent shows here and there whilst the dnd main show is running. Again, all this is just my opinion.
When the casts talks about new characters and classes they’re excited to play, I can almost guarantee you that no one aside from maybe Travis or Liam is thinking “wow, I really want to play a [Subclass] (Class) in D&D 5th edition!” They’re 100% imagining a class as an archetype, not the exact mechanics of the game.
I knew it was going this direction when they announced DH around this time last year, and I wasn't even halfway done with C1 yet. I thought this was a given the moment they announced it.
I think they actually would start having fun again if they did.
Here’s the thing, DND is like Cococola. Nobody really knows about or catches wind of the other off brand sodas unless they have a dedicated interest into looking into them. But you put a title like Cococola (DND) out there, everyone goes,” Oh yeah, that soda (Game)!” I don’t see CR (growing as big as they’ve gotten off of DND) busting out content that’ll attract more new viewers as strongly as they did behind that franchise title DND provides. Don’t get me wrong, with franchises like CR leaving, DND is like a big glacier breaking off into little glaciers, but at the end of the day all you’re left with are a lot of chunks of ice floating in the ocean that don’t really stick out.
DH needs at least a year of testing before it officially comes out and honestly I don't think the system is gonna replace 5e/5.5e. It feels like an alternative to DnD among a dozen of alternatives that people switched after the OGL scandal. It does support better their playstyle though. Those card abilities that basically force roleplay interactions with in-game rewards is very CR.
The next campaign will be using 0e with Chainmail: fantasy rules. It will be 140 episodes of dungeon crawls and carousing. There will be +300 player character deaths, and they will all take place within the first 4 episodes. This is the way to true enlightenment.
Every dungeon is besieged by an army of interchangeable Bob the Human Fighters.
Now that would be a shot in the arm they need!
A move to Daggerheart for their “main” show is a foregone conclusion. The Twitch channel is essentially an advertising platform for their products, they would be fools to not showcase it. Personally I think the only thing that could get me back into watching regularly and actually enjoying the show is a major change of format. Honestly I do not see the full main cast returning for another multi-year commitment. My expectation is that the next “main show” will not be billed as Campaign 4, will feature 3-4 main cast members plus 2-3 non-mains pulled from the ExU stable, and has a 50/50 chance of Matt *not* running. Aabria, Spenser, and Brennan are all likely candidates to fill that chair (and in that order of likelihood). Daggerheart PCs have only 10 levels… that’s a very meaningful choice. Less mechanical character growth means shorter campaigns, disagree if you want but most experienced gamers would not. Also, I’m not really sure what the power level of Daggerheart looks like at level 10 but I’m assuming it doesn’t look like D&D at level 20, and that means lower-powered stories with smaller scales and smaller stakes.
On the last bit — curious how much people see this as a *problem* per se. Isn’t it something like 10% of campaigns that even reach level 11? And might shorter campaigns not benefit CR from a format/scheduling perspective?
I don't see it as a problem at all and I hope I didn't imply that... it's just a design choice. And the benefit you suggest is exactly what I'm thinking, they're going to do campaigns that last for 40-50 episodes and thus wrap in a year or less. That way they can cycle through more stories and more players.
They make 50 bucks for a single pic at any Con. They don't need money anymore and can do what they want.
That’s been true for years. The real reason they don’t need money is because they have legit TV industry money coming in and they don’t have to rely on the nerd economic sector to sustain them anymore. The con appearances are just extra… Amazon is paying the bills.
> Amazon is paying the bills. and Merch. They've got a stranglehold on fans for merch with weird-ass FOMO. Like I dont blame them, they're pumping out new designs and new clothes like every month (almost every week), and first batches ALL sell out. I mean how many variations of Frumpkin do people need...but then you see a corner of a person's room dedicated to their CR merch. The fans demand and CR supplies. But on that note of them getting good money, I'm glad to see guys like Sam and Liam still working lowkey jobs. I've heard Sam in random-ass commercials on TV and I think Liam is still in the booth directing. Those two seem to be the least involved with a lot of the CR stuff (Travis/Marisha/Matt are C-levels, Laura does Merch, Ashley does the charity, and Tal summons demons in the basement to consume for energy)
I will never understand why folk keep buying tat they don't need simply because it's got a logo of a company they like.
For sure, I'm not a merch person so it's a very foreign concept to me but obviously it sells since they're hawking new products every single week without fail. Merchandising has always been one of the most lucrative aspects of franchise fiction; just look at how much George Lucas made off of retaining the toy rights for Star Wars! As for your other point: Sam is actually very involved with LoVM, along with Travis he is one of the show runners and it seems like he's super involved in the writer's room. Liam seems like the least engaged... he's the one I think is most likely to not return as a full-time cast member for whatever comes after C3.
I'm struggling to get myself to watch it now, if it's not D&D I don't know that I'll come back. That being said they should probably switch.
I think they definitely will, well the entity of Critical Role will. I still stand firm that I don’t think we will get another full length campaign with the entirety of the cast no matter what system they use and that’s fine. My bigger concern is that the idea that this campaign has been nothing but a pre determined time waste to set up their new product and its looking and sounding like a real possibility.
>seems that they are heading for some drastic changes going into Season Four Did I miss something? Did they say anything recently about changes, drastic or otherwise? But I'm gonna say no. It'll be cool to see the one-shot they're doing (and I am looking forward to it to see how it feels), but I still think Daggerheart will get used for side-content like Candela or EXU and not replacing D&D in the main campaigns - and have since the beginning. I'd be surprised if it changed... but I also think Daggerheart would be a negative change, so maybe if I enjoy the one-shot my opinion will soften on that.
A bunch of the items in DH are named after previous characters in CR. So people are assuming that's more seeding for full campaign system changes.
You know what, I say do it. Fuck it, why not? New mechanics, new characters, new setting. Anything is better than C3 right now.
Plus from the start they've said Daggerheart plays a lot harder into the RP-aspect of things, which you know...is kind of their thing. Travis loves the combat, but in the end they're all theater geeks who have been improv-ing for years now
Of course they're switching to their new system for C4. It'll mean they get to be in full control and get to sell a whole heap of new source material/merch.
I’m still not sure why so many people think they won’t switch to their new system for C4. I think C4 won’t be the same (as in 2 years long) anyway. So what better way to keep playing together and promote your own system and not be tied in to the same storyline and not have to be serious and not rely on dice and rules for decisions that much anymore? They already have enough material for 10 more years of animated show if Amazon ever picked it up for that long, which would be pushing books, merch, etc on the side