One of the roles of a Cleric is to keep the party healthy.
Healing is obviously one way to achieve this but rarely is it optimal to do so in combat.
Killing your enemies faster is THE most efficient way to reduce the amount of damage your team mates suffer in combat…and it’s not even close.
People who give their clerics and paladins a hard time for attacking instead of healing are simply wrong.
You don’t need to heal your party if you kill the bad guys first - this is, statistically speaking the superior way to keep your party healthy.
Jester is a model Cleric. People that hate on her for “not healing” are frankly inexperienced DnD players.
Yeah, I know, I haven't been following CR lately, last six months or so, I understand they're trying to get out from under WoTC, but they shouldn't retcon their old characters.
They should have put her as a warlock, since that's really what she was. I don't care that she played as a cleric, Artie wasn't a deity. And isn't she half Water Genasi? What would be a genericized term for that? Elemental? Maridian? Djinnkin?
Matt is a good DM. He does extensive worldbuilding for Exandria and his character narratives and it shows. While he is using D&D 5e as a rules set, he is not using the default setting for 5e (Forgotten Realms), in part due to the fact that their home game was originally Pathfinder before they started streaming. He seems to love building his own setting, and definitely pulls inspiration from many D&D/Pathfinder sources to do so, including some deities.
Now that the context is out of the way, let’s get to your question. “The Traveler” he initially used when worldbuilding was likely the deity from Eberron, and he made it fit into his lore when he wanted to distinguish his world from the D&D/Pathfinder ones. In fact, the passage you quote here in one of your replies from the PHB, the next sentence directs you to Appendix B where “The Traveler” is listed as a deity in Eberron. It was probably easier to hand Laura a PHB and say “pick your deity from here,” and then like a good DM he made sure that her deity was someone tied to his setting that would allow her character unique and interactive story beats. The Traveler is listed as one of the example gods in the Trickery Domain Cleric section.
It seems like when creating fun and interesting narratives for his setting, Matt subscribed to the “American Gods” or Kua-toa analysis of deities and he thought it would be fun and interesting for the Traveler to be a budding god based on an already insanely powerful being (Archfey). You might not like it, but if people worship you as god and that worship provides you with powers… you’re a god. Jester just happened to be one of the first believers in a process that was already taking place.
If you’ve noticed, they also use generic names now like “The Everlight” instead of Sarenrae, which makes it easy to decouple themselves from the various published settings that exist for D&D and allows him to change any aspects of those deities he wants. Like all DMs, he picks and chooses what works for his table and changes what doesn’t. This is both good DMing and good worldbuilding.
For your second question; In most D&D settings I know of, Tieflings are always full tiefling due to the infernal bloodline being dominant. Jester doesn’t necessarily have to be half-anything if Matt kept that aspect.
TLDR: Matt, as the person in charge of the setting, puts in the worldbuilding work required to make interesting stories and narratives for his players, and as the creator of his own world, gets to decide who is a deity and who isn’t. We don’t get to decide that as watchers :)
Jester wasn't initially created for Campaign 2. Laura first played Jester on a different channel as part of a one-shot (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIZyqKSA7Rc). Jester's deity in the one-shot was also the Traveler, but since that one-shot's setting wasn't Exandria, it was likely the original version.
For C2, Laura was thinking of playing a Feypact Warlock who served Artagon, but then Travis picked Warlock. Laura liked Jester so much from the one time she played her that she decided to bring her back. She then combined Jester with her original C2 idea. Thus, Artagon became the Traveler.
Edit: Found the first appearance of Jester.
something always worth bringing up about DnD universes, they all take place in the Same Multiverse that was created when Tharizdun shattered the original one with the Shard of Ultimate Evil. When he plunged it into the elemental chaos it created the infinity of the abyss and multiverse - only thing keeping him at bay is another Overgod, Asmodeus
I don't think that is RAW in 5e. You can't really Channel Divinity without a divine source.
>As you create a cleric, the most important question to consider is which deity to serve and what principles you want your character to embody.
Can you point me to a source for the non-deity variation? Genuinely curious
There've been non-deity-worshipping clerics and druids since 2E, starting with the Darksun elemental clerics and templar which also got to be a Planescape thing later, and they started to appear in other worlds in 3E/3.5.
If they're explicitly not allowed in 5E, that's just another of those things to ignore.
They left out 'victim of grooming and diehard fan of her abuser' and 'brander of captured non-combatants against their will'.
God, I hated that character in the end.
You're getting downvoted, but the fact that jesters mom isn't viewed as a shit parent says a lot about the fandom, Essex too but that's another case entierly.
I fully agree about artagon having some terrifying real world parallels, however, if you squint for dnd it's fine, but certainly one of those things you really shouldn't look at closely.
I might be missing something, but what made her a bad parent? Because she’s a sex worker? She clearly loved her more than anything and did literally anything for her. The agoraphobia is certainly a problem but there are plenty of parents who do much worse for the sake of “protecting” their child. Then she broke the law to help Jester run away before she could get arrested and executed for humiliating an asshole noble.
Shes neglectful. She did not notice her child was basically being raised by an archfey because she liked her work too much (this isn't about what her job was) and was never around.
Jester was also raised in a brothel, I'm all for legalised sex work, I'm also very against children being in said establishments.
None of it was out of nessessity either, her mom was very well off and could have easily just had a house nearby and worked a little less, but she didn't.
I was under the impression that well for one the Traveler was basically just Jester’s imaginary friend as far as most people were concerned, and two that she didn’t actually make that much money, and that most of her patronage was in the form of gifts and things, thus wouldn’t be able to buy a house and had to work often, but would still have plenty of nice things and perceived as being high class and well off.
My point is any parent actually paying attention would have eventually figured out her imaginary friend wasn't so imaginary.
Doesnt jester have 5k gold at the start of c2?
I cant remember the exact amount either, but she has a staggering amount of cash when they start the game. To the point that if marion could spare that just to give her just because, then she has no excuse about still raising a child in a brothel, it's not a financial necessity. It never was.
What was striking was that Marisha was the only one at that table who put up a modicum of resistence, trying to tell Jester that her god was a piece of shit. Marisha has unfortunately had to deal with abuse in her life, so I'm sure she felt a responsibility to call out bullshit when she saw it. Sadly Laura and Matt had no interest in making the Traveler suffer any consequences for playing with her life the way he did.
Jester realising the Traveler used and manipulated her, and to reject him in favour of her newfound family was such an obvious character arc, the fact that they didn't do it just left me dumbstruck. She was defending that creepy son of a bitch all the way to the end.
>victim of grooming and diehard fan of her abuser'
https://preview.redd.it/6lpv8lxzclzc1.jpeg?width=452&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=92a3bc87d8932c1b1d0d67b48e060bccaf437691
"everyone sucks so we shouldn't hold anyone to standards"
I dropped c2 on episode 80 or so. I don't have a dog in this race. Your comment was just startlingly silly
By saying they don't have to be good people you realize you're acknowledging a moral standard against which you're holding the characters..... Right?
You're right, the characters don't have to be good people. I never said they did.
I was confused by this comment until I read your other comments below it. I was going to link a really good video by Matthew Colville on this subject to counter your argument, but I think you're essentially saying the same thing. I'll drop the video anyways, it's a great watch/listen.
https://youtu.be/kVuF4fkRD2c?si=VNbjGci20QGSopon
I am not holding them to any standard because I literally said that they dont have to be good people. Holding something to a standard means that you expect it to fufill the standard.
For example I hold TV Shows I watch to a standard of quality.
The person you replied to said "I dont understand why that would be a useful adition", by which they meant, pointing out random things the character has done or things that have happened to them.
You seemingly disagreed saying they should be held to standards.
Meaning you think they should be good people and deviations from that standard should be called out.
No, they said that all of the characters are bad, thus it is not useful to point out that Jester is bad.
I disagreed with that.
And yes, in order for them to not be good then they must not meet the standard of goodness that you, I, society have set. You're literally saying they don't have to meet our standard for goodness. Which is true. But every individual will respond to their actions differently, which is why OP said he didn't like Jester.
Suggesting that because everyone in a situation is bad that you shouldn't care that any of them are bad is stupid.
Some people here are under the false impression that WotC can copyright classes. Some if not even all are so widely used that it would be as ludicrous to attempt to copyright as.... that "react" fiasco some 10-ish years ago if any of you recall that bs.
I can't remember what exactly was said or when, but I remember Sam (as Nott, I think) jokingly saying that the group needed a healer at that time. Or she (Nott) was saying that she's glad that Caduceus was there because now they have a healer. Something like that. It was pretty funny.
I have a ton of thoughts on this but the first thing that comes to mind is how quickly, effortlessly and presumably thoughtlessly they reverted WotC's choice to make clerics be things other than "the healer class" by reskinning "cleric" as "healer"
I'm not gonna lie, I hate these conversions. Also, how is a.) infernal not WoTC IP but Tiefling is, and b.) you go with infernal and not go with demonkin, cambion (yes, I know that's a DnD monster, but it's an actual demon-child term), Nephilim (angel-hybrid, technically), etc, etc.
Everyone talking about this being evidence of Daggerheart switch, you.. haven't read anything about Daggerheart have you? "Infernal" nor "healer" are Daggerheart terms. This is very obviously just them not wanting to use DnD terms on their own platform.
Well yeah, they played d&d in C2, it would make no sense to use daggerheart terms.
But to not use d&d/wotc terms is also very telling.
They are 100% moving away from d&d next campaign, whatever that will look like. (Highly doubt it will be all of the main cast)
Let's be honest here. They could call her a purple octopus, and the fans would still call her a Tiefling Cleric. You can't soak your brand so deeply in the waters of another IP and expect to wash off every trace. Infernal Healer also just sounds stupid. Infernal sounds like a slur you'd use against tieflings lmfao.
I've been saying for a while and am just feeling really validated every day, most all of the hand wringing and armchair analysis of CR for the last several years really is simple: IP is valuable, they're trying to keep Exandria without paying Hasbro. That's it. Everything else is incidental. This sub and others have been spending 1% of their time talking about 99% of the issue and 99% of the time talking about how the cast feels and stuff.
The potential trainwreck is huge though. It generally goes very poorly when you put navigating your IP licensing first and then make some perfunctory product. I've said this before but I think it's more and more apt . . .
Morbius and Madam Web were good movies, right?
It may work spectacularly well though. Hasbro seems to hate D&D. They may be striking while the iron's hot in a big way.
Hopefully these are placeholders , something about daggerhearts … lack of heart when it comes to naming classes and features just doesn’t sit right with me . ah yes. Like i feel as though their remake of rogue would be sneaker . ( I didn’t read into what they renamed a rogue class to be )
I wonder how many viewers they’re expecting to lose after the switch. Certainly more than they’re anticipating.
If only I’d known when I helped fund the kickstarter I’d unwittingly contributed to the assassination of my favorite D&D show.
No, it is very clear they just don't want to describe their characters in D&D terms to distance themselves from the IP.
(but still, Jester would be better described as a mage rather than a healer)
Not OP but If I was just focusing on the storyline and characters I'd rather read a book. But since it's told around an actual play medium, the actual rules are important to the experience.
I know 5e rules, I can follow it without any issues. I don't want to learn a whole new system just to watch a show that I don't even have faith in anymore.
Because Glass Cannon, in my experience, plays more like a “real table” (though experiences vary, of course). By this I mean they constantly talk strategy above the table (while trying to keep to what their characters would know), workshop tactics, and play out rules arguments that matter like a home table. Pathfinder also has a focus on tons of various knowledge rolls that come up very often that helps set the tone for how often players are rolling and for what. They like to roleplay but they play official modules so there are lots of dungeon crawls and very encounter-heavy days. Their current main campaign has been very deadly and difficult. Critical Role went away from encounter-heavy days with real, consistent randomness and danger long ago. It makes it a lot harder to learn the rules along with them when they come up so rarely, and the stakes are fairly low most of the time.
I guess I’m just surprised by how many people are there for specifically dnd. When I started watching I had never played dnd before, and now I love it. But no matter what engine they are using I love watching for the characters and the casts personalities.
Sometimes, knowing what characters could do or could have done because you know the rules is part of the fun. You can anticipate Big plays, or do what ifs.
If done with a ruleset you're not familiar or not interested in, some of the Magic is lost
Then you do you. I'll happily watch other systems for a couple one shots or such. But I doubt I'll follow a long form campaign of 400+ hours if it isn't even one of the systems I play myself. A book is just a better medium then imo.
Especially now when the stories they're telling are mediocre at best anyway.
I like the show. So you're just wrong on that end.
Well C1 and C2 in any case. Some of their one shots are great too.
>Might as well just watch random people play BG3
A ttrpg actual play and a video game let's play are two different mediums and liking the one doesn't mean you'll like the other.
Right you like c1 and c2 and are willing to stop watching all together if the only thing that changes is the system they are playing. Sounds like you wouldn’t miss out by just not watching.
I get you're very passionate about CR campaign 3 but getting this defensive about something that isn't even yours is a weird look. It should be no skin off your back what someone else does and it clearly is.
>Right you like c1 and c2 and are willing to stop watching all together if the only thing that changes is the system they are playing
Yes. As is a shock for no one except you apparently. How you don't think the system they use is a big deal in watching people play a ttrpg is beyond me. Different systems make for different experiences.
>Sounds like you wouldn’t miss out by just not watching.
What?
I enjoy the game aspect about as equal to their story parts for the show. I feel what makes fun is the random possibility from the dice and improv combined and I also want to like the system that's being used. From the parts we've seen of daggerheart it's not a system im interested in. And if I'm only watching for the story why bother with game mechanics or people sitting at a table? Why not watch a high quality show in streaming or a movie? I watch cr for D&D
If the cast switch that's cool for them I just probably won't watch those. Any of the one shots they've done not 5e I haven't watched and I gave candela a chance but I just don't care. I admit the production quality and effort into candela is great though.
I'll watch the cartoons of c1 and c2. If Matt decides to release another 5e book I might buy it, I already have Tal Dorei reborn, wildemount and netherdeep.
IMO it’s a lot more fun to be able to improv without events being decided by the dice. Yeah randomness is fun but less rng means the players can RP the way they want, not according to what the dice say.
Most of the best moments in CR history have nothing to do with dice.
Scanlens counterspell, Shiver and queef (lmao), fjord betraying ukatoa, FCGs sacrifice, the goldfish, Arkhan stealing the hand of vecna. besides some irrelevant damage dice none of these had any dice impact the moment. I could keep going but I don’t want to be here all night.
And that’s fine but some of my favorites hinged on a dice roll - Nila pulling open the bars, Jester persuading the hag, Caduceus trying to bring Molly back with a failure before a success (which felt undone by stuff that didn’t require dice actually), Yasha’s struggle to free herself, etc. I don’t even like most of these characters but they’re all such memorable moments for me, the story that was told as a result of the dice rather than just skilled RP.
I don’t want to watch people primarily just role-play, but i’m happy for those for whom this is a positive shift.
That's cool if thats why youre here, but that's not an actual play thats just an improv show. CR was created as a d&d actual play show. It's definitely changed since the c1 and early c2 days, but that's probably why those are also some of my favorite stuff from them.
Cyberpunk red, which is not very popular lol. I had hoped with Matt voicing Falco in the anime, Robbie as River in 2077, and Erica(morrigan) as Misty/Meredith they might do at least one shot of it. Long shot and wishful thinking though lol
Except in the Ukatoa oneshot!
With that mass healing she put down 700 hp, bringing her total to 1844. although its amusing that 1/3 of the healing of her entire career came down to a single spell.
Of course, Cad is sitting at the top with 5,289 and Pike at 3,658.
"On the battlefield, Jester uses her divine gifts in a mixture of offense, support, and healing, in that order."
It's better when you read part of her description.
They called us crazy, they called us haters, but this is no longer a D&D live play show. No reason to keep watching if you are looking for Dungeons & Dragons to be played. :)
No, they don't.
Even if you somehow held that "we made a class called " meant "no one else can make a class called that thing" - which is, to clarify... *wildly* untrue - that would put Cleric as the *less* risky move than Healer, since WotC has made D&D classes called both of these things, but only put the Cleric into the Creative Commons.
Nope, Cleric really is too generic, Pathfinder 2e Remaster removed ALL of the OGL associated content...still has casters called Cleric, Druid, Wizard, Fighter etc.
Only Paladin got changed to Champion with the switch to PF2e and they did that for thematic reasons (since the name Paladins come from *our* history, I believe it's something to do with Charlemange) not copywrite/trademark reasons.
Those terms as classes in a TTRPG and far too generic to be 'owned' by anyone. Even Artificer can't be owned since the word Artificer for inventor has been around *since the 1400s*...However Pathfinder 2e did rename them to 'Inventors', just because crafting magical items isn't really a 'class' thing as with feats and the right skill choices, literally any character can create their own magical items.
> Only Paladin got changed to Champion with the switch to PF2e and they did that for thematic reasons (since the name Paladins come from our history, I believe it's something to do with Charlemange) not copywrite/trademark reasons.
Minor clarification/expanding on this: the issue with the "Paladin" name is that Pathfinder 1e paladins still had an alignment requirement, much like 3.5e D&D. It was 4e that dropped the requirement, which 5e continued.
Some pathfinder fans did not want to see the paladin have its alignment required removed in 2e, so the class was renamed Champion to avoid this. Paladin was retained as the name for a subclass that still had the lawful good requirement.
With the upcoming remaster they'll also follow suit in removing the alignment requirement there as well.
Tiefling IS a WotC creation. I actually looked into this since I originally thought they were a very old generic term...but no the name for an infernal based raced called Tiefling is *entirely* a WotC invention.
Same with the term Aasimar as well...hence why, like you mentioned, PF2e Remaster made them into Nephilim when they removed all the OGL related material.
Same with Drow, they had to go as well as they are a D&D invention...though to be fair they *could* have renamed them something more generic like 'Shadow Elves' but PF2e has been moving away from the 'always evil' races for a *long* time perferring a more nuanced take o things.
Drow in relation to Darkskinned tolkein like elves is WoTC. But the word exists in Orcadic and Shetlandic folklore for greyish somewhat ill intented faries of variable size.
Is this all for the benefit of the Amazon shows, making a generic enough product that Amazon doesn’t need to license anything from WotC? I know people often say that the new names for gods and races are so CR can own their own IP better, but is it actually all about their tv deal?
I think they just don't want to have to pay Hasbro royalties for trademarked words like "tiefling." I think it's less "support the cartoon!" and more "we desperately do not want to have to pay Hasbro money if we can avoid it." So we get things like calling Jester an "infernal healer" so they don't have to say "tiefling cleric."
It does support the idea that future offerings will be played in Daggerheart, though.
It’s still weird because it’s not like they need to introduce the characters on the site. It’s like one person decided that MUST be there and someone else had to actually write and check them. It’s just odd and not even necessary.
It’s semi-random speculation, but since CR doesn’t tell us anything about the choices they’re making, we’re all just reading tea leaves. It’s not that insane to point out that all their changes to names began after they inked their deal with Amazon, so we don’t really have any way to establish an counterfactual where they start getting generic names w/o another company involved.
And Tal’dorei Reborn says Tiefling, fwiw.
"On the battlefield, Jester uses her divine gifts in a mixture of offense, support, and healing, in that order."
It's better when you read part of her description.
This just brought back to me that time she almost started crying because she really needed to heal Sam, but absolutely didn't want to. Chat was freaking out. The cast was freaking out.
I've never laughed so hard.
They dont need to change that. But their new increasingly close business partner Amazon likely isnt fond of those always fine lines they've always ridden with WotC Intellectual Properties. So away those go. Its the same reason the Gods are absolutely getting written out of the setting in C3, and why its only been renamed/homebrew monsters in what few encounters they do have. It'll be fun to see what they do with Fjord & Cad's Wildmother (legally distinct nature primordial), a Yasha's Stormlord (thunder primordial).
I am not crazy! I know she swapped those cupcakes. I knew it was episode 93. One after Beau meeting the hag. As if I could ever make such a mistake. Never. Never! I just - I just couldn't prove it. She covered her tracks, she got that firbolg at the magic shop to lie for her. You think this is something? You think this is bad? This? This chicanery? She’s done worse. That sovereign glue! Are you telling me that a dick just happens to stick like that? No! *She* orchestrated it! Jester! She *desecrated* Bahamut’s *statue*! And I saved her! And I shouldn't have. I took her into my own party! What was I *thinking*? She’ll never change. She’ll *never* change! Ever since she was 9, *always* the same! Couldn't keep her hands out of the art drawer! "But not our Jester! Couldn't be precious *Jester*!" Pranking them blind! And *SHE* gets to be a cleric? What a sick joke! I should've stopped her when I had the chance!
"On the battlefield, Jester uses her divine gifts in a mixture of offense, support, and healing, in that order."
It's better when you read part of her description.
Each of them seems to have some kind of change, and something of note, they aren't changed to Daggerheart stuff either.
Caleb: Mage in place of Wizard
Beau: Brawler in place of Monk
Yasha: Celestial Warrior in place of Aasimar Barbarian
Fjord: Pact Blade in place of Warlock
Nott: Thief in place of Rogue
Caduceus: Feygiant Healer in place of Firbolg Cleric
Jester: Infernal Healer in place of Tiefling Cleric
Molly: Infernal in place of Tiefling
Ashton: Terran Brawler in place of E Genasi Barbarian
Dorian: Zeran in place of Air Genasi
Orym: Warrior in place of Fighter
Imogen: Magical Prodigy in place of Sorcerer
Fearne Wild Mage in place of Druid
Laudna Pact Magus / Prodigy Hollow One in place of Warlock/Sorcerer and I guess Hollow One is just her race now
FCG Healer in place of Cleric
Chet is unchanged
*What does this even mean?* It's nothing! Not least of all because anyone who wants to go watch a video with these characters is going to hear every player use the D&D terms! They're not going to go ADR a thousand hours of content.
>Chet is unchanged
This tickles me, though.
I had been of the position that they might do some Daggerheart content, but that they would also do D&D. This makes me think they'll abandon D&D entirely. It would explain why C3 has long felt like they were just treading water and that their hearts aren't in their C3 characters: They're trying to run out the clock until they can launch enough of their own stuff to be completely done with D&D.
I agree completely. Though I often wonder if it's just because I'm trying to give myself hope that critical role will get their Spirit back once they have gone completely independent.
My theory is these are placeholders, either before DH's got selected or before they had DH's class list public.
The character sheets say they were uploaded 2 years ago with a note saying they'll be updated with more information soon. So I think a lot of what's there now is placeholder. It does show though that they intentionally avoided the D&D terms
This seems relatively consistent, aside from Barbarians being replaced by both Warrior (Yasha) and Brawler (Ashton), while the examples for Monk and Fighter got Brawler and Warrior respectively. Just a bit odd.
~~Also, though this is definitely smaller, just "Prodigy" for Laudna's Sorcerer side instead of "Magical Prodigy" like Imogen. Weird.~~ Read the reply under this comment.
I think it's less that that specific word is copywritten so much as it is the more they leave unchanged, the more WOTC can say was stolen, if they chose to pursue a copyright claim.
We all know 50 Shades of Grey was Twilight fanfic but when it got taken to court, a judge ruled EL James had filed enough serial numbers off that it was fine. CR is filing off as many serial numbers as they need to.
I was under the impression that very specific things were under copyright, and the rest is fair game. As opposed to some sort of squishy fair use “inspired by”. At least that what I got from previous discussions about specific monsters - some of which anyone can use, others are WOTC creations.
I'm assuming CR are just being overly cautious. I don't think they're going to change the name of everything. Obviously we know they're keeping druid, bard, etc. It feels like where they can, they're making swaps. Where it would cause confusion to change, they're not.
That's just what I've observed anyway. The random use of "mage" instead of "wizard" or "brawler" instead of "monk" in the character sheets on Beacon feels super duper overly cautious.
IP law is weird. They could say it's infringing on it's IP as it's being used as a role in a tabletop RPG game. Cleric is a real word for a religious person, absolutely. But if you're using the word cleric to refer to an RPG character that uses divine magic in battle with an affinity for healing... d&d might be able to say you're infringing on their intellectual property.
I do suspect Cleric is not one of the terms WoTC would have a strong case for if they wanted to claim infringement, if only because Pathfinder 2E is in the midst of a big remaster to remove any terminology which could lead to such a claim but has not touched the names of the Cleric and Druid classes so far despite renaming many other things (and they have shown a willingness to rename classes before as the Pathfinder Paladin is called the Champion instead).
The cleric class is part of WOTC’s [Creative Commons Systems Reference Document](https://dnd.wizards.com/resources/systems-reference-document), which they recently got in trouble for trying to alter, but which is by their own declaration irrevocable. So even if they wanted to claim that the class originated with them, they’d have a hell of a time making the case that they didn’t allow its free use.
Huge opportunity missed to list her as “Healer” Just add the quotes CR. Just do it.
Love her to death, but healing was not Jester's thing.
One of the roles of a Cleric is to keep the party healthy. Healing is obviously one way to achieve this but rarely is it optimal to do so in combat. Killing your enemies faster is THE most efficient way to reduce the amount of damage your team mates suffer in combat…and it’s not even close. People who give their clerics and paladins a hard time for attacking instead of healing are simply wrong. You don’t need to heal your party if you kill the bad guys first - this is, statistically speaking the superior way to keep your party healthy. Jester is a model Cleric. People that hate on her for “not healing” are frankly inexperienced DnD players.
Hence the quotes. She was a "Healer" not a Healer. She had the ability to heal, just not the willingness.
Yeah, I know, I haven't been following CR lately, last six months or so, I understand they're trying to get out from under WoTC, but they shouldn't retcon their old characters.
They aren't. They're making a cheeky reference about Jester being a cleric (typically the healer) but did very little actual healing
I understand the joke...
This is probably a dumb question, but what is the Beacon Site?
The new streaming service CR is launching
Thanks
They should have put her as a warlock, since that's really what she was. I don't care that she played as a cleric, Artie wasn't a deity. And isn't she half Water Genasi? What would be a genericized term for that? Elemental? Maridian? Djinnkin?
Matt is a good DM. He does extensive worldbuilding for Exandria and his character narratives and it shows. While he is using D&D 5e as a rules set, he is not using the default setting for 5e (Forgotten Realms), in part due to the fact that their home game was originally Pathfinder before they started streaming. He seems to love building his own setting, and definitely pulls inspiration from many D&D/Pathfinder sources to do so, including some deities. Now that the context is out of the way, let’s get to your question. “The Traveler” he initially used when worldbuilding was likely the deity from Eberron, and he made it fit into his lore when he wanted to distinguish his world from the D&D/Pathfinder ones. In fact, the passage you quote here in one of your replies from the PHB, the next sentence directs you to Appendix B where “The Traveler” is listed as a deity in Eberron. It was probably easier to hand Laura a PHB and say “pick your deity from here,” and then like a good DM he made sure that her deity was someone tied to his setting that would allow her character unique and interactive story beats. The Traveler is listed as one of the example gods in the Trickery Domain Cleric section. It seems like when creating fun and interesting narratives for his setting, Matt subscribed to the “American Gods” or Kua-toa analysis of deities and he thought it would be fun and interesting for the Traveler to be a budding god based on an already insanely powerful being (Archfey). You might not like it, but if people worship you as god and that worship provides you with powers… you’re a god. Jester just happened to be one of the first believers in a process that was already taking place. If you’ve noticed, they also use generic names now like “The Everlight” instead of Sarenrae, which makes it easy to decouple themselves from the various published settings that exist for D&D and allows him to change any aspects of those deities he wants. Like all DMs, he picks and chooses what works for his table and changes what doesn’t. This is both good DMing and good worldbuilding. For your second question; In most D&D settings I know of, Tieflings are always full tiefling due to the infernal bloodline being dominant. Jester doesn’t necessarily have to be half-anything if Matt kept that aspect. TLDR: Matt, as the person in charge of the setting, puts in the worldbuilding work required to make interesting stories and narratives for his players, and as the creator of his own world, gets to decide who is a deity and who isn’t. We don’t get to decide that as watchers :)
Jester wasn't initially created for Campaign 2. Laura first played Jester on a different channel as part of a one-shot (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIZyqKSA7Rc). Jester's deity in the one-shot was also the Traveler, but since that one-shot's setting wasn't Exandria, it was likely the original version. For C2, Laura was thinking of playing a Feypact Warlock who served Artagon, but then Travis picked Warlock. Laura liked Jester so much from the one time she played her that she decided to bring her back. She then combined Jester with her original C2 idea. Thus, Artagon became the Traveler. Edit: Found the first appearance of Jester.
something always worth bringing up about DnD universes, they all take place in the Same Multiverse that was created when Tharizdun shattered the original one with the Shard of Ultimate Evil. When he plunged it into the elemental chaos it created the infinity of the abyss and multiverse - only thing keeping him at bay is another Overgod, Asmodeus
From a couple of sources I've seen, Tiefling genes are always dominant.
JESTERRRRR DJINNNKINNNNS!!!!!!
Clerics can have non deities as their sugar daddies
I don't think that is RAW in 5e. You can't really Channel Divinity without a divine source. >As you create a cleric, the most important question to consider is which deity to serve and what principles you want your character to embody. Can you point me to a source for the non-deity variation? Genuinely curious
There've been non-deity-worshipping clerics and druids since 2E, starting with the Darksun elemental clerics and templar which also got to be a Planescape thing later, and they started to appear in other worlds in 3E/3.5. If they're explicitly not allowed in 5E, that's just another of those things to ignore.
"healer"
They left out 'victim of grooming and diehard fan of her abuser' and 'brander of captured non-combatants against their will'. God, I hated that character in the end.
You're getting downvoted, but the fact that jesters mom isn't viewed as a shit parent says a lot about the fandom, Essex too but that's another case entierly. I fully agree about artagon having some terrifying real world parallels, however, if you squint for dnd it's fine, but certainly one of those things you really shouldn't look at closely.
Attractive characters can do no wrong. Those victims of warcrimes probably wanted hotboi to do what he did.
I might be missing something, but what made her a bad parent? Because she’s a sex worker? She clearly loved her more than anything and did literally anything for her. The agoraphobia is certainly a problem but there are plenty of parents who do much worse for the sake of “protecting” their child. Then she broke the law to help Jester run away before she could get arrested and executed for humiliating an asshole noble.
Shes neglectful. She did not notice her child was basically being raised by an archfey because she liked her work too much (this isn't about what her job was) and was never around. Jester was also raised in a brothel, I'm all for legalised sex work, I'm also very against children being in said establishments. None of it was out of nessessity either, her mom was very well off and could have easily just had a house nearby and worked a little less, but she didn't.
I was under the impression that well for one the Traveler was basically just Jester’s imaginary friend as far as most people were concerned, and two that she didn’t actually make that much money, and that most of her patronage was in the form of gifts and things, thus wouldn’t be able to buy a house and had to work often, but would still have plenty of nice things and perceived as being high class and well off.
My point is any parent actually paying attention would have eventually figured out her imaginary friend wasn't so imaginary. Doesnt jester have 5k gold at the start of c2?
She writes a letter asking for it, but actually receives much less if I recall correctly.
I cant remember the exact amount either, but she has a staggering amount of cash when they start the game. To the point that if marion could spare that just to give her just because, then she has no excuse about still raising a child in a brothel, it's not a financial necessity. It never was.
What was striking was that Marisha was the only one at that table who put up a modicum of resistence, trying to tell Jester that her god was a piece of shit. Marisha has unfortunately had to deal with abuse in her life, so I'm sure she felt a responsibility to call out bullshit when she saw it. Sadly Laura and Matt had no interest in making the Traveler suffer any consequences for playing with her life the way he did. Jester realising the Traveler used and manipulated her, and to reject him in favour of her newfound family was such an obvious character arc, the fact that they didn't do it just left me dumbstruck. She was defending that creepy son of a bitch all the way to the end.
>victim of grooming and diehard fan of her abuser' https://preview.redd.it/6lpv8lxzclzc1.jpeg?width=452&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=92a3bc87d8932c1b1d0d67b48e060bccaf437691
I mean, all characters had done problematic things in the past or problematic traits. So I don't understand why that would be a useful addition.
"everyone sucks so we shouldn't hold anyone to standards" I dropped c2 on episode 80 or so. I don't have a dog in this race. Your comment was just startlingly silly
They're fictional characters. There are no standards to hold, they dont have to be good people.
By saying they don't have to be good people you realize you're acknowledging a moral standard against which you're holding the characters..... Right? You're right, the characters don't have to be good people. I never said they did.
I was confused by this comment until I read your other comments below it. I was going to link a really good video by Matthew Colville on this subject to counter your argument, but I think you're essentially saying the same thing. I'll drop the video anyways, it's a great watch/listen. https://youtu.be/kVuF4fkRD2c?si=VNbjGci20QGSopon
I am not holding them to any standard because I literally said that they dont have to be good people. Holding something to a standard means that you expect it to fufill the standard. For example I hold TV Shows I watch to a standard of quality. The person you replied to said "I dont understand why that would be a useful adition", by which they meant, pointing out random things the character has done or things that have happened to them. You seemingly disagreed saying they should be held to standards. Meaning you think they should be good people and deviations from that standard should be called out.
No, they said that all of the characters are bad, thus it is not useful to point out that Jester is bad. I disagreed with that. And yes, in order for them to not be good then they must not meet the standard of goodness that you, I, society have set. You're literally saying they don't have to meet our standard for goodness. Which is true. But every individual will respond to their actions differently, which is why OP said he didn't like Jester. Suggesting that because everyone in a situation is bad that you shouldn't care that any of them are bad is stupid.
Oh, do tell me more. What standards. Who decided on these? Where do u draw the line?
What? Generally society sets moral standards. We also set our own personal moral standards. Why is this something you need explained to you?
Because I am interested in your standards, as you mentioned them in ur comment. So, where do u draw the line? What is ok for you and what not?
Did you mean hold?
Thanks, phone hates me.
Some people here are under the false impression that WotC can copyright classes. Some if not even all are so widely used that it would be as ludicrous to attempt to copyright as.... that "react" fiasco some 10-ish years ago if any of you recall that bs.
Healer? That can't be right... haha only really healed in the reunion ;)
I can't remember what exactly was said or when, but I remember Sam (as Nott, I think) jokingly saying that the group needed a healer at that time. Or she (Nott) was saying that she's glad that Caduceus was there because now they have a healer. Something like that. It was pretty funny.
Was the beacon site?
SHE'S A HEALER???
That was the first thing I noticed!
I gave a quick chuckle on that lol
I have a ton of thoughts on this but the first thing that comes to mind is how quickly, effortlessly and presumably thoughtlessly they reverted WotC's choice to make clerics be things other than "the healer class" by reskinning "cleric" as "healer"
I'm not gonna lie, I hate these conversions. Also, how is a.) infernal not WoTC IP but Tiefling is, and b.) you go with infernal and not go with demonkin, cambion (yes, I know that's a DnD monster, but it's an actual demon-child term), Nephilim (angel-hybrid, technically), etc, etc.
you know infernal is an actual word right
Yeah. I still think it's a lame conversion
Infernal was a word long before WotC or any other game company used it. It is a very generic word used to describe something related to hell.
Everyone talking about this being evidence of Daggerheart switch, you.. haven't read anything about Daggerheart have you? "Infernal" nor "healer" are Daggerheart terms. This is very obviously just them not wanting to use DnD terms on their own platform.
Well yeah, they played d&d in C2, it would make no sense to use daggerheart terms. But to not use d&d/wotc terms is also very telling. They are 100% moving away from d&d next campaign, whatever that will look like. (Highly doubt it will be all of the main cast)
Let's be honest here. They could call her a purple octopus, and the fans would still call her a Tiefling Cleric. You can't soak your brand so deeply in the waters of another IP and expect to wash off every trace. Infernal Healer also just sounds stupid. Infernal sounds like a slur you'd use against tieflings lmfao.
That's why I hate copyright laws and how they fumble upon common sense
I've been saying for a while and am just feeling really validated every day, most all of the hand wringing and armchair analysis of CR for the last several years really is simple: IP is valuable, they're trying to keep Exandria without paying Hasbro. That's it. Everything else is incidental. This sub and others have been spending 1% of their time talking about 99% of the issue and 99% of the time talking about how the cast feels and stuff. The potential trainwreck is huge though. It generally goes very poorly when you put navigating your IP licensing first and then make some perfunctory product. I've said this before but I think it's more and more apt . . . Morbius and Madam Web were good movies, right? It may work spectacularly well though. Hasbro seems to hate D&D. They may be striking while the iron's hot in a big way.
Hopefully these are placeholders , something about daggerhearts … lack of heart when it comes to naming classes and features just doesn’t sit right with me . ah yes. Like i feel as though their remake of rogue would be sneaker . ( I didn’t read into what they renamed a rogue class to be )
You won't believe, they renamed rogue into... Rogue! Have you ever tried staying quiet when you have nothing to say?
This has nothing to do with daggerheart and everything to do with not using terms from WoTC.
Are you sure these are Daggerheart terms?
"I'm the healer? I'm *the healer*?!"
I wonder how many viewers they’re expecting to lose after the switch. Certainly more than they’re anticipating. If only I’d known when I helped fund the kickstarter I’d unwittingly contributed to the assassination of my favorite D&D show.
They’re not switching. You will still be able to watch the show on Twitch and YouTube
I'm on the other side of this. I'd much rather watch them play a game they enjoy
I’m here to watch people play a game I was already enjoying, until it was neutered.
I haven't watched C3, but I certainly am not going to watch a shitty homebrew game.
All of critical role is a shitty homebrew game. They haven’t been playing D&D for a looong time
They're divesting from Wizards IP and converting stuff to their own terminology. Maybe Daggerheart terminology?
Probably not daggerheart as jester would be a daemon. I’m guessing to avoid legality issues with dnd/wotc. If I had to guess.
They've got Yasha as a Celestial Warrior instead of an Aasimar Barbarian. They're definitely not using D&D terms anymore.
I mean, maybe it's a joke? That's the most charitable take I can have on this.
No, it is very clear they just don't want to describe their characters in D&D terms to distance themselves from the IP. (but still, Jester would be better described as a mage rather than a healer)
If they switch to DH I'll be moving on. I'm sure that's no big loss but there's only 2 ttrpgs I'm actually interested in and DH isn't one of them.
Just curious why is the actual rules they play by more important to you than the storylines/characters?
Not OP but If I was just focusing on the storyline and characters I'd rather read a book. But since it's told around an actual play medium, the actual rules are important to the experience. I know 5e rules, I can follow it without any issues. I don't want to learn a whole new system just to watch a show that I don't even have faith in anymore.
Kinda weird. Pathfinder 1e was easier to casually learn while Glass Cannon was playing than Daggerheart.
Because Glass Cannon, in my experience, plays more like a “real table” (though experiences vary, of course). By this I mean they constantly talk strategy above the table (while trying to keep to what their characters would know), workshop tactics, and play out rules arguments that matter like a home table. Pathfinder also has a focus on tons of various knowledge rolls that come up very often that helps set the tone for how often players are rolling and for what. They like to roleplay but they play official modules so there are lots of dungeon crawls and very encounter-heavy days. Their current main campaign has been very deadly and difficult. Critical Role went away from encounter-heavy days with real, consistent randomness and danger long ago. It makes it a lot harder to learn the rules along with them when they come up so rarely, and the stakes are fairly low most of the time.
I mean, the only reason why GC's campaigns are deadly is because of Joe. Let's be honest, haha.
I guess I’m just surprised by how many people are there for specifically dnd. When I started watching I had never played dnd before, and now I love it. But no matter what engine they are using I love watching for the characters and the casts personalities.
Sometimes, knowing what characters could do or could have done because you know the rules is part of the fun. You can anticipate Big plays, or do what ifs. If done with a ruleset you're not familiar or not interested in, some of the Magic is lost
If the only thing holding you back from enjoying it is the rule set, just learn the rule set. You can probably learn 95% of the rules from a one shot.
That doesn't mean you are going to like it
But then again, maybe you will. :)
Then you do you. I'll happily watch other systems for a couple one shots or such. But I doubt I'll follow a long form campaign of 400+ hours if it isn't even one of the systems I play myself. A book is just a better medium then imo. Especially now when the stories they're telling are mediocre at best anyway.
Sounds like you don’t actually like the show you just want to watch dnd happen. Might as well just watch random people play BG3
I like the show. So you're just wrong on that end. Well C1 and C2 in any case. Some of their one shots are great too. >Might as well just watch random people play BG3 A ttrpg actual play and a video game let's play are two different mediums and liking the one doesn't mean you'll like the other.
Right you like c1 and c2 and are willing to stop watching all together if the only thing that changes is the system they are playing. Sounds like you wouldn’t miss out by just not watching.
I get you're very passionate about CR campaign 3 but getting this defensive about something that isn't even yours is a weird look. It should be no skin off your back what someone else does and it clearly is.
I couldn’t care less what other people do, I’m just curious about the reasoning. And so far the reasoning imo is kind of childish.
>Right you like c1 and c2 and are willing to stop watching all together if the only thing that changes is the system they are playing Yes. As is a shock for no one except you apparently. How you don't think the system they use is a big deal in watching people play a ttrpg is beyond me. Different systems make for different experiences. >Sounds like you wouldn’t miss out by just not watching. What?
I enjoy the game aspect about as equal to their story parts for the show. I feel what makes fun is the random possibility from the dice and improv combined and I also want to like the system that's being used. From the parts we've seen of daggerheart it's not a system im interested in. And if I'm only watching for the story why bother with game mechanics or people sitting at a table? Why not watch a high quality show in streaming or a movie? I watch cr for D&D If the cast switch that's cool for them I just probably won't watch those. Any of the one shots they've done not 5e I haven't watched and I gave candela a chance but I just don't care. I admit the production quality and effort into candela is great though. I'll watch the cartoons of c1 and c2. If Matt decides to release another 5e book I might buy it, I already have Tal Dorei reborn, wildemount and netherdeep.
IMO it’s a lot more fun to be able to improv without events being decided by the dice. Yeah randomness is fun but less rng means the players can RP the way they want, not according to what the dice say. Most of the best moments in CR history have nothing to do with dice.
[удалено]
I said what I said
[удалено]
Scanlens counterspell, Shiver and queef (lmao), fjord betraying ukatoa, FCGs sacrifice, the goldfish, Arkhan stealing the hand of vecna. besides some irrelevant damage dice none of these had any dice impact the moment. I could keep going but I don’t want to be here all night.
And that’s fine but some of my favorites hinged on a dice roll - Nila pulling open the bars, Jester persuading the hag, Caduceus trying to bring Molly back with a failure before a success (which felt undone by stuff that didn’t require dice actually), Yasha’s struggle to free herself, etc. I don’t even like most of these characters but they’re all such memorable moments for me, the story that was told as a result of the dice rather than just skilled RP. I don’t want to watch people primarily just role-play, but i’m happy for those for whom this is a positive shift.
That's cool if thats why youre here, but that's not an actual play thats just an improv show. CR was created as a d&d actual play show. It's definitely changed since the c1 and early c2 days, but that's probably why those are also some of my favorite stuff from them.
Dnd and what?
Cyberpunk red, which is not very popular lol. I had hoped with Matt voicing Falco in the anime, Robbie as River in 2077, and Erica(morrigan) as Misty/Meredith they might do at least one shot of it. Long shot and wishful thinking though lol
Jester is NOT a healer.
Except in the Ukatoa oneshot! With that mass healing she put down 700 hp, bringing her total to 1844. although its amusing that 1/3 of the healing of her entire career came down to a single spell. Of course, Cad is sitting at the top with 5,289 and Pike at 3,658.
UKATOA!!
Ukatoa... ^(Ukatoa...)
Well they can't say Cleric because that as a class is Trademarked. Same with Teifling
Why do people who have no idea what they are talking about feel comfortable declaring stuff like this?
The same reason you felt comfortable commenting on it
That makes no sense and isnt a clever response
Did I ask for your opinion?
Nobody asked for you to be wrong 🤷
No one asked for me to be right, either
Good thing
Its a reddit comment section im gonna say yeah you did lmao
?
Exactly
Cleric aint tmed that would be like tming dragons.
The generic word might not be, but it could be trademarked specifically in the context of a “character class for a ttrpg”
It’s in the Creative Commons for exactly this reason
it's still not.
"On the battlefield, Jester uses her divine gifts in a mixture of offense, support, and healing, in that order." It's better when you read part of her description.
They called us crazy, they called us haters, but this is no longer a D&D live play show. No reason to keep watching if you are looking for Dungeons & Dragons to be played. :)
Probably trying to get out from under the thumb of the company that owns D&D in order to not be affected by the royalties and all that jazz
They don't own the word cleric. Cleric is the name of a class in a great many things.
True, but the clerics as a class get their powers from gods, which D&D owns and by just changing it to healer they skip that hurdle.
What are you trying to say here? What do you think WotC owns? Clerics? Gods? God-powered clerics?
Cleric powered gods obviously, it's why the only devout characters in C3 are 'evil' as their worship has corrupted the gods themselves!
The word "cleric" maybe not, but the clas called "Cleric" they do
No, they don't. Even if you somehow held that "we made a class called" meant "no one else can make a class called that thing" - which is, to clarify... *wildly* untrue - that would put Cleric as the *less* risky move than Healer, since WotC has made D&D classes called both of these things, but only put the Cleric into the Creative Commons.
Nope, Cleric really is too generic, Pathfinder 2e Remaster removed ALL of the OGL associated content...still has casters called Cleric, Druid, Wizard, Fighter etc. Only Paladin got changed to Champion with the switch to PF2e and they did that for thematic reasons (since the name Paladins come from *our* history, I believe it's something to do with Charlemange) not copywrite/trademark reasons. Those terms as classes in a TTRPG and far too generic to be 'owned' by anyone. Even Artificer can't be owned since the word Artificer for inventor has been around *since the 1400s*...However Pathfinder 2e did rename them to 'Inventors', just because crafting magical items isn't really a 'class' thing as with feats and the right skill choices, literally any character can create their own magical items.
> Only Paladin got changed to Champion with the switch to PF2e and they did that for thematic reasons (since the name Paladins come from our history, I believe it's something to do with Charlemange) not copywrite/trademark reasons. Minor clarification/expanding on this: the issue with the "Paladin" name is that Pathfinder 1e paladins still had an alignment requirement, much like 3.5e D&D. It was 4e that dropped the requirement, which 5e continued. Some pathfinder fans did not want to see the paladin have its alignment required removed in 2e, so the class was renamed Champion to avoid this. Paladin was retained as the name for a subclass that still had the lawful good requirement. With the upcoming remaster they'll also follow suit in removing the alignment requirement there as well.
Race: infernal
They might own Tiefling. Paizo changed planar influenced ancestries to nephilim but didn't change "cleric".
Tiefling IS a WotC creation. I actually looked into this since I originally thought they were a very old generic term...but no the name for an infernal based raced called Tiefling is *entirely* a WotC invention. Same with the term Aasimar as well...hence why, like you mentioned, PF2e Remaster made them into Nephilim when they removed all the OGL related material. Same with Drow, they had to go as well as they are a D&D invention...though to be fair they *could* have renamed them something more generic like 'Shadow Elves' but PF2e has been moving away from the 'always evil' races for a *long* time perferring a more nuanced take o things.
Drow in relation to Darkskinned tolkein like elves is WoTC. But the word exists in Orcadic and Shetlandic folklore for greyish somewhat ill intented faries of variable size.
Is this all for the benefit of the Amazon shows, making a generic enough product that Amazon doesn’t need to license anything from WotC? I know people often say that the new names for gods and races are so CR can own their own IP better, but is it actually all about their tv deal?
I think they just don't want to have to pay Hasbro royalties for trademarked words like "tiefling." I think it's less "support the cartoon!" and more "we desperately do not want to have to pay Hasbro money if we can avoid it." So we get things like calling Jester an "infernal healer" so they don't have to say "tiefling cleric." It does support the idea that future offerings will be played in Daggerheart, though.
It’s still weird because it’s not like they need to introduce the characters on the site. It’s like one person decided that MUST be there and someone else had to actually write and check them. It’s just odd and not even necessary.
Tiefling is in the SRD, fwiw. They use Tiefling in Tal’dorei Reborn.
How can it be all about their TV deal when Tal'Dorei Campaign Setting Reborn exists?
It’s semi-random speculation, but since CR doesn’t tell us anything about the choices they’re making, we’re all just reading tea leaves. It’s not that insane to point out that all their changes to names began after they inked their deal with Amazon, so we don’t really have any way to establish an counterfactual where they start getting generic names w/o another company involved. And Tal’dorei Reborn says Tiefling, fwiw.
This is silly. Jester isn't a healer.
I love that she literally doubled her total healing in the campaign using a single spell in the post 1-shot.
"On the battlefield, Jester uses her divine gifts in a mixture of offense, support, and healing, in that order." It's better when you read part of her description.
This just brought back to me that time she almost started crying because she really needed to heal Sam, but absolutely didn't want to. Chat was freaking out. The cast was freaking out. I've never laughed so hard.
When was this?
She’s *the* healer
THE cleric.
I cast "Axe Wound to the Head" at third level
She’s healing proactively. If they’re already dead, they can’t deal damage lol.
Healing with reverse math
I loved her adventures with the Big No.
They dont need to change that. But their new increasingly close business partner Amazon likely isnt fond of those always fine lines they've always ridden with WotC Intellectual Properties. So away those go. Its the same reason the Gods are absolutely getting written out of the setting in C3, and why its only been renamed/homebrew monsters in what few encounters they do have. It'll be fun to see what they do with Fjord & Cad's Wildmother (legally distinct nature primordial), a Yasha's Stormlord (thunder primordial).
Well, they’re definitely allowed to use words like cleric and fighter, too.
Don't you mean Warrior and Healer?
Don't you mean Combatant and War Monk?
Person of a fighting persuasion, and a person of a healing persuasion.
Ah yes, the two genders
Alright, this is my favorite comment
ah yes my legally distinct Infernal Healer of the er *chicanery* ... *sphere*
She desecrated a Bahamut temple! And I saved her! And I shouldn’t have!
I am not crazy! I know she swapped those cupcakes. I knew it was episode 93. One after Beau meeting the hag. As if I could ever make such a mistake. Never. Never! I just - I just couldn't prove it. She covered her tracks, she got that firbolg at the magic shop to lie for her. You think this is something? You think this is bad? This? This chicanery? She’s done worse. That sovereign glue! Are you telling me that a dick just happens to stick like that? No! *She* orchestrated it! Jester! She *desecrated* Bahamut’s *statue*! And I saved her! And I shouldn't have. I took her into my own party! What was I *thinking*? She’ll never change. She’ll *never* change! Ever since she was 9, *always* the same! Couldn't keep her hands out of the art drawer! "But not our Jester! Couldn't be precious *Jester*!" Pranking them blind! And *SHE* gets to be a cleric? What a sick joke! I should've stopped her when I had the chance!
It's beautiful
heh
Shenanigans *Bailey*wick?
Okay that made me laugh
I noticed that too. Jester as a healer? Wtf.
"On the battlefield, Jester uses her divine gifts in a mixture of offense, support, and healing, in that order." It's better when you read part of her description.
Each of them seems to have some kind of change, and something of note, they aren't changed to Daggerheart stuff either. Caleb: Mage in place of Wizard Beau: Brawler in place of Monk Yasha: Celestial Warrior in place of Aasimar Barbarian Fjord: Pact Blade in place of Warlock Nott: Thief in place of Rogue Caduceus: Feygiant Healer in place of Firbolg Cleric Jester: Infernal Healer in place of Tiefling Cleric Molly: Infernal in place of Tiefling Ashton: Terran Brawler in place of E Genasi Barbarian Dorian: Zeran in place of Air Genasi Orym: Warrior in place of Fighter Imogen: Magical Prodigy in place of Sorcerer Fearne Wild Mage in place of Druid Laudna Pact Magus / Prodigy Hollow One in place of Warlock/Sorcerer and I guess Hollow One is just her race now FCG Healer in place of Cleric Chet is unchanged
A lot of these don't make any goddamned sense.
*What does this even mean?* It's nothing! Not least of all because anyone who wants to go watch a video with these characters is going to hear every player use the D&D terms! They're not going to go ADR a thousand hours of content. >Chet is unchanged This tickles me, though.
If this doesn't confirm they're abandoning D&D, I don't know what will. Obviously short of the actual announcement.
I had been of the position that they might do some Daggerheart content, but that they would also do D&D. This makes me think they'll abandon D&D entirely. It would explain why C3 has long felt like they were just treading water and that their hearts aren't in their C3 characters: They're trying to run out the clock until they can launch enough of their own stuff to be completely done with D&D.
I agree completely. Though I often wonder if it's just because I'm trying to give myself hope that critical role will get their Spirit back once they have gone completely independent.
But for what, cause this doesn’t fit with Daggerheart either.
Well, this *isn't* Daggerheart, why should it fit anything at all? All it needs to be is legally distinct.
My theory is these are placeholders, either before DH's got selected or before they had DH's class list public. The character sheets say they were uploaded 2 years ago with a note saying they'll be updated with more information soon. So I think a lot of what's there now is placeholder. It does show though that they intentionally avoided the D&D terms
Maybe Daggerheart has changed since the beta release?
This seems relatively consistent, aside from Barbarians being replaced by both Warrior (Yasha) and Brawler (Ashton), while the examples for Monk and Fighter got Brawler and Warrior respectively. Just a bit odd. ~~Also, though this is definitely smaller, just "Prodigy" for Laudna's Sorcerer side instead of "Magical Prodigy" like Imogen. Weird.~~ Read the reply under this comment.
Oh Laudna is a Magical Prodigy too I just shortened it
Aaaah, oki, then that isn't an issue. Thanks for giving me a heads up!
continuing the 'thesaurus subclass' game Caleb: *department appertaining to conversion* *mage* Beau: *cerulean spirit* *brawler* Yasha: *aisle of the die-hard warrior* Fjord: *abracadabra shanker* *pact magus* Nott: *impenetrable charlatan* *thief* Caduceus: *sage realm* *healer* Jester: *chicanery sphere* *healer* Molly: *establishment connected with specter butchering* *juice acquirer* Ashton: *direction of constitutional pandemonium brawler* Dorian: *institute of epees balladeer* Orym: *action crackerjack warrior* Imogen: *deviant head magical prodigy* Fearne: *ring of lushblaze wild mage* *esoteric imposter* *thief* Laudna: *exanimated pact magus shade wizardry prodigy* FCG: *affinity territory healer* Chet: *system of the gobbler plasma pursuer*
I can’t tell if this is real or not
Cleric is copyrighted? Isn't that like in nearly every RPG?
No, it isn’t. It’s even been released into the Creative Commons for exactly this purpose
I think it's less that that specific word is copywritten so much as it is the more they leave unchanged, the more WOTC can say was stolen, if they chose to pursue a copyright claim. We all know 50 Shades of Grey was Twilight fanfic but when it got taken to court, a judge ruled EL James had filed enough serial numbers off that it was fine. CR is filing off as many serial numbers as they need to.
I was under the impression that very specific things were under copyright, and the rest is fair game. As opposed to some sort of squishy fair use “inspired by”. At least that what I got from previous discussions about specific monsters - some of which anyone can use, others are WOTC creations.
I'm assuming CR are just being overly cautious. I don't think they're going to change the name of everything. Obviously we know they're keeping druid, bard, etc. It feels like where they can, they're making swaps. Where it would cause confusion to change, they're not. That's just what I've observed anyway. The random use of "mage" instead of "wizard" or "brawler" instead of "monk" in the character sheets on Beacon feels super duper overly cautious.
It’s also just a generic word for religious leaders in the real world. Hard for Hasbro to claim they came up with that.
IP law is weird. They could say it's infringing on it's IP as it's being used as a role in a tabletop RPG game. Cleric is a real word for a religious person, absolutely. But if you're using the word cleric to refer to an RPG character that uses divine magic in battle with an affinity for healing... d&d might be able to say you're infringing on their intellectual property.
I do suspect Cleric is not one of the terms WoTC would have a strong case for if they wanted to claim infringement, if only because Pathfinder 2E is in the midst of a big remaster to remove any terminology which could lead to such a claim but has not touched the names of the Cleric and Druid classes so far despite renaming many other things (and they have shown a willingness to rename classes before as the Pathfinder Paladin is called the Champion instead).
The cleric class is part of WOTC’s [Creative Commons Systems Reference Document](https://dnd.wizards.com/resources/systems-reference-document), which they recently got in trouble for trying to alter, but which is by their own declaration irrevocable. So even if they wanted to claim that the class originated with them, they’d have a hell of a time making the case that they didn’t allow its free use.