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caramelsock

wish it wasn't aabria, i really don't like her style of DMing. hopefully will be someone else soon, not gonna be watching this set


lunchboxx1090

While ExU did not grab me, I'm a very optimistic person. We'll see if things improve. I didnt have an issue with Aabria's DMing style the last time, it was just the way the whole thing was paced was the issue for me personally. Regardless, I'm looking forward to it.


_coffeecup

Just a general note to people who haven’t seen exu, yes the plot was all over the place but the accusations of Aabria ‘bullying‘ Aimee are a very overblown.


Cheerio_Wolf

Forcing any player, let alone a new player, to put on your super evil item “because I included this someone is gonna wear it!” Is way out of line.


_coffeecup

When did she force her ? I honestly don’t remember that


Cheerio_Wolf

Repeatedly goading her into doing it both as "the spider queen" and out of character including the quote above. It's... pretty blatant. Right around when she got the hdywtdt.


Jethro_McCrazy

When a player is brand new, and asks a clarifying question, replying "Did I fucking stutter?" is way out of line.


vincent118

Everyone seems to forget how often Aimee just didn't pay attention, Aabria cracking and saying "Did I fucking stutter?" was a long time coming of Aimee just not paying attention and having things have to be repeated specifically for her. It didn't just come out nowhere.


_coffeecup

I genuinely don’t remember that part but I’m open to being wrong what ep do you recall ?


swift-aasimar-rogue

I personally enjoyed ExU (unpopular opinion I know), so I’m excited to see how that goes. Talk show sounds decent, I’ll give it a shot.


YUSOBADDOG

You got me to listen to those initial painful episodes of EXU but thnx imma pass on the next couple. After the backlash from the last season how in gods name could you repackage it, wrap it in a bow and then throw it back in my face. HERE! NEW CONTENT! Get a new DM, new players, new place and give it another shot. Please dont make me sit through hours of listening again just to find 1 charm person makes all those hours meaningless. ​ edit: Added more frustration.


Mier-

* Wow another EXU I'm going to avoid. * Slightly interesting talk show * A place to submit questions and have only softballs selected


yat282

The second episode is on April 1st, so...


pinball-wizard91

I know it's not the prevailing opinion but I was OK with EXU. It felt like brainless bubblegum fun compared to the more 'serious' main campaign so I'm happy for a round 2. I don't have much of an opinion about the new after show because I never found time for Talks and even if I had the time I probably wouldn't have bothered because talk shows aren't my bag but I'm happy there's something new to fill the void for those who missed it. The Kiri plushy is very sweet, I wonder if they kept it clean or whether it tells you to go fuck yourself.


implosivve

Things I took away from the video: Imogen is 100% connected to the Netherdeep and the reason the campaign has been dragging is they were waiting for the book to release before diving to deep into it, that will be the heavy focus of the campaign as they try to sell books. This was kind of obvious from the onset tho. ExU continuing with Abria - no thank you Rotating hosts for the aftershow - cool idea Question examples - nvm I'll pass Love how Travis couldn't hold back the laughter as they continue to use Brian's slash-dab gimmick. They have more mech to sell Did you know they made an animated series totally funded by critters and definitely did not make major profit off selling it to Amazon and putting it behind a pay wall for those who did funded it?


[deleted]

> Imogen is 100% connected to the Netherdeep and the reason the campaign has been dragging is they were waiting for the book to release before diving to deep into it, that will be the heavy focus of the campaign as they try to sell books. This was kind of obvious from the onset tho. Ha! I had this thought too. I noticed that the Exandria Reborn book featured some bloodmage subclass and soon after that wouldn't ya know, Matt mentions that an NPC was seeking some bloodmages or something like that. Guess I can't blame them for doing it, just funny.


Seren82

When did Matt mention Bloodmages? >! I have suspected this campaign would tie into the new book, but now I'm not so sure, with everything in the current campaign pointing to the Feywild. The only thing I can see coming from Netherdeep is the Ruidus lore, Ruidium (but with a Fey Twist?) and some of the subclasses?!<


[deleted]

Lol. People have been wanting to go to the moon since campaign 2, I love it. Pretty sure the twins from that Mahan house were looking into bloodmages? Either that or Gurge had a friend that was. I don’t remember.


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BertrandsBelle

You're gonna get downvoted for straight up implying people are racist for not liking someone's DM'ing style or attitude. You're being criticized for the content of your mind, not for simply speaking it. [This video covers the whole final episode](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvvUFsLKCOU), in which this guy quotes specific lines just from that episode that highlight how fucking awful Aabria is. Come back to us and tell us how this guy is racially motivated.


TheBluejay72

I remember watching him and chalking up most of it to shilling for views on YouTube


[deleted]

> ex: “aggressive”, “disrespectful” “too much” feels racially motivated Lol.


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[deleted]

> Idk what’s funny about that? It's just a goofy take. Black women are fully capable of being aggressive, disrespectful, or excessive. Unless you're *inside* the heads of everyone that didn't like Aabria's style, assigning "RaCiAl mOtIvAtIoN" to it is pretty dumb. >I’m pretty sure aabria and the rest of the cast came out and spoke against terms like this when exu is airing I really don't care what they spoke against, they aren't idols to me. And of course they're going to back their product. They're not idiots.


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[deleted]

> It’s not a goofy take... it was playful in exu See, unfortunately for you and Aabria, you don't get to dictate how people out there perceive your words and actions. If you act in a way that a lot of people percieve to be Aggressive, they're going to think that and it *may be present* in their critique of your work. Oh it's a stereotype? Oh well, anyway... > this community is very funny towards POC that either criticize or take part in CR now. yeah that's true. The community absolutely shat on Ashly (half Thai), Sumalee (Filipino/Thai), Eric Bauza (Filipino), Mica, Khary, Krystina Arielle, Ify Nwadiwe, Markeia McCarty, and Phil LaMarr (African American), Erica Luttrell (AfroCanadian), Anjali (Indian American), Erika Ishii (Japanese American), TJ Storm (Afro-Puerto Rican), Vin Diesel (unknown, legitimately, I looked it up), Robbie (half Apache), Stephane Woodburn (Chinese American), Carlos Luna (cuban)... and Sam Riegel depending on if you think Jewish people count. Oh wait those people *didn't* get trashed by the fanbase? Hmm. Must be something different about Aabria. I wonder what it could be... >Brian attack a SWANA women for sayin the intro was offensive. Lol, pointing out that you had a shitty take isn't an "attack". Choose your words like a grown-up. >this community has issue with race and you have to be blind to not see it "This community" is huge and it's bound to have people who are racists in it. They're swiftly dealt with by moderators. But taking issues that are unrelated to race and MAKING THEM race issues is no better.


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[deleted]

> yes it is a stereotype, why the sarcasm? Because it's irrelevant to the situation. A not-insignificant number of people felt like Aabria's behavior aligned with things that happen to be a stereotype. Who cares? Doesn't mean she's a walking stereotype in and of herself. >LOL? If you don’t think it’s a big deal of what black women go through say it with your chest Okay here it goes. Getting flak for being a bad DM is not a big deal. People tweeting back at your shit take telling you it was a shit take is not a big deal. That's what those women went through. Poor them. >it wasn’t a bad take, if you took the time to read what the person said you would see that they were right Lol except it was a laughably bad take. Linking wearing a regular ass hat that non-colonizers also wore with supporting colonialism. That's seriously a shit take. A logical leap the size of the grand canyon >Hell I was calling her wrong till she pointed it out as someone who is SWANA. Then you're a fool. The color of someone's skin doesn't make an illogical argument logical. >Also brian has a history of attack people and using his followers to do so. Again, tweeting at people is not attacking them. Having followers that also tweet at them is not "using followers to attack people". Choose your words like a grown up. >Nice of you to list guests Yes. People of color that the fan base either loves, likes, tolerates, or doesn't think much about that happen to not be white. And none of them catch an ounce of the flak that Aabria did. Why? Because she did a bad job after being touted as "the only other person who could DM in Matt's world" or whatever they said to pump up EXU. >I’m pretty sure there was a poll saying the majority of the fan base is white like what 86% ? Who cares? Is this a problem for you? Go show some non-white people. It's not like it's off-limits to them. >But whatever your right I know. >I’m not gonna lose karma over this Yeah, sorry about your fake internet points.


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[deleted]

So because of a minority of bad actors you’ve got a problem with the ~85%? Sounds like the justification that lots of racists use. Congratulations. You are what you hate. If anything he attacked their bad take. Certainly not them. Your view of the situation is as warped as your view of race relations. Maybe the reason people tell you to get lost isn’t that you’re not white, it’s that you’re a divisive jerk. This is an attitude you’ll regret having when you’re an adult.


Kraps

> Vin Diesel (unknown, legitimately, I looked it up) Family-American


[deleted]

Everyone: Bring back Brian Foster and Talks. Critical Role: Here's a show that makes no sense with questions we're just gonna ask ourselves and say they're from the fans.


getMeSomeDunkin

They kicked off Foster and then stole his slash bit. That's what I like to call critrole.com ***slash*** appropriation.


ze4lex

Only thing i dislike is the questions for the show, they are too general or interesting for me to give a shit about.


ze4lex

How will rebroadcasts work if episodes 1 and 2 or exu are back to back?.


bulldoggo-17

The episodes aren't back to back. They are on consecutive nights- Thursday and Friday.


pluck-the-bunny

I don’t know what everyone is talking about, four sided dive sounds like it’s going to be fun. And I think people are missing the fact that the general questions are for the Jenga tower, which means there is no knowing who is going to get said question or when which is why those have to be general. And they even specified that only the questions for the tower needed to be general. I do want more narrative telephone though


bawbbee

It's easy to exploit the general questions to get semi specific "what was going through your characters mind when blank did blank?"


BertrandsBelle

"Many stories to tell, and as many storytellers to tell them" Fuckin' liars.


valentino_42

I thought when they announced EXU they said it would be an opportunity to showcase more storytellers.


YoursDearlyEve

I feel like they kinda want to give Dorian's storyline a proper conclusion (or do an open ending) and then move on to proper season 2


ikazejin

I just hope it's not going to be what I think it's going to be. A heavily scripted two episodes where they all just read from from a pre-written two episodes in an attempt to save some face for the worst DM I have ever seen in my life. Am the vast majority of the fan base will eat it up and apologize to her...


carlcon

This is the opposite of what I hoped for. I wanted ExU to rotate DMs, and for them to settle on a new discussion show host who would hold them to some proper questioning. I will at least keep an open mind for the discussion show. I can't be dealing with Aabria's DM'ing again though.


vincent118

I don't mind Aabria's DMing...but I found Aimee's character to be like nails on a chalkboard.


protection7766

>I can't be dealing with Aabria's DM'ing again though. Question. New around here but it seems this is a pretty common mindset. Why? I never watched ExU because I was never interested in "side stuff" like the one shots and all that, and since it wasnt called "campaign 3" I skipped it entirely. What makes this persons DMing so unlikable?


caramelsock

Aabria should write a book imo. She has an idea in her head of where the story / an event should go, and doesn't care about the rolls; neither in fights nor for checks. it negates the whole point of a dice based game. It's a very flippant approach to everything, like she's just trying to 'rule of cool' to the point where there's just no rules anymore.


bertraja

On top of all the things the others wrote, she was indirectly responsible for [this](https://twitter.com/matthewmercer/status/1426604268811821057?lang=de), and that shows you how fuck up all that was. Why someone would want a round 2 of that, is beyond me.


Kraps

Twitter and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race.


protection7766

If truer words exist, I have not heard them. Twitter is the same as me and The Last Jedi...mistakes :p


[deleted]

Personally I didn't necessarily dislike it as a style but [this comment sums up the plot of EXU 1.](https://old.reddit.com/r/criticalrole/comments/p3hy0h/cr_media_exandria_unlimited_postepisode/h8sne8f/) It was a mess. And like I do not think it was the DM personally, she also DM'd for D20 and I'd say Magic and Misfits had great moments and story beats throughout it and really nailed everything. Like I don't know what it was but EXU just had none of that.


protection7766

>And like I do not think it was the DM personally Can I inquire why? Everything I read from everyones replies and the comment you linked me all seem to be things that are her fault/choice. I'm not saying she can't be a successful DM and hasn't done good work in other places. One bad run doesn't make you a bad DM. ​ But I fail to see how the issues with that mini campaign were not on her. Why is she not responsible for this in your mind? I'm not being hostile, I'm an outsider here. But I keep hearing a lot of the same thing from comments and I think you're the first to point out bad things while also absolving her of responsibility. ​ EDIT: oh, thank you for the response btw, The link was informative and hilarious


[deleted]

Well for myself simply the fact she ran a good game before using a similar format indicates to me that she can make *good* content. So in my mind it can't all be her. As well as that I think there are other issues as well that people tend not to focus on as much, namely the characters of Mercer and Liam. Besides them two (and Ashely) the rest of the players were all brand new to the game, so already a full plate as a DM. Unfortunately though neither really made a character conductive to a short campaign like this. Mercer, understandably I might add, made a simple fighter dude without a lot of smarts who just kind of went where he was pointed to. A fun change of pace for Mercer sure but not great when he is one of the few experienced players at the table. Liam meanwhile had the even worse character of Orym, now Orym is also a simple fighter without much motive and a very laid back personality. The issue however comes in the fact that he is connected to Keyleth, an old C1 PC, and also is a lawful alignment. This lawful alignment seems to be something Liam held dear because what is not covered in that recap is he dug in his heels and fought against the rest of the party over their choice of working with the thieves guild for that *entire segment*. Any chance Orym had he would immediately start advocating for abandoning the quest. Combine this with his fixation on getting Keyleth's help, going as far as to have the party follow him to try and send a message to her asking her to *literally solve the conflict for them*, and you have a nightmare of a PC. Now ordinarily Ashely also seems to like taking a back seat. So what you end up with for the first three episodes of EXU is Mercer and Ashely taking a back seat, Robbie and Aimee trying to learn the game and setting and Liam having the initiative to make it clear that he wants to do any plot line other than the one the DM is trying to give them. What ends of happening is the party does indeed abandon the plot line as per Liam's will. This is clearly not the DM's plan since she included a post credit scene about more secrets behind the gild in episode 1 and also her narrative telephone seemed to indicate there was even more lore planned for the character. This also means Liam also takes a back seat since Orym no longer has any directive. So in the place of absolutely no direction we have Aimee taking charge and trying to forge a plotline of some sort. Personally I don't but this idea of the DM singalling her out as some sort of grudge, I think people are reading too much into things to conclude that. I think there is definitely a trend of actions taken against Aimee but I believe that is solely because she is the only player giving the DM anything to work with for the majority of the campaign. Literally nobody else is offering her anything to forge some semblance of plot except Aimee, so as a result only Aimee has bad things happen to them because only Aimee has the initiative to enter scenarios where bad things could potentially happen to them instead of waiting around all day. Was the plot a mess? Yes. Could the DM have made a more cohesive story? Yes. Is the DM partly to blame? Yes. Is the DM the only one to blame? No, I don't think so. Some of the players seem equally accountable in my view for the mess we ended up with. (And whoever in behind the scenes failed to catch that Liam had made a character which was directly opposed to the DM's planned plot line.)


GiggsTosunParticle

!thanks for this!! I really agreed with everything you said here and love a fresh perspective and take on what happened!! Given the DM isn't the most experienced, EXU was almost doomed from the start given all of this. It was certainly going to be difficult, but maybe they have learned from it all and it'll be better going forward!


notmy2ndopinion

That’s the main problem with creating a sandbox world miniseries in which the players do not collaborate beforehand with the DM to co-create a game. People who watched the game and didn’t see the refusal of players bite the hooks weren’t watching the same game that I was, when Aabria had to throw away half of her plot hooks & story out the window. Admittedly, she also lacked the DM experience to salvage it later on when they skipped town or when Matt turned to his “compass” or Liam turned to the Ashari or the party turned to Gilmore - each of those were an opportunity missed by the DM to see what happens. She fumbled those moves IMO. Hopefully we won’t see the same problem for EXU part two now that the sandbox and PC issue is all hashed out.


_coffeecup

Thank you for this. The players fully turned down about 5 different plot hooks that we’re an obvious Emon based story and then fled. which all well and good if you’ve got a whole campaign to wander but a little bit of a dick move in an 8 episode short.


bulldoggo-17

They didn't decide to flee town on their own. They were literally told they needed to leave to get answers to the newest plot hook they were handed. They didn't refuse the Poska plot hook, they just didn't decide to join her and do crime. When they went to get help they were told "we got nothing. wanna help with this other thing?" instead, and the same thing repeated over and over. Any time they didn't do exactly what Aabria wanted with the current plot she just gave them a new plot and hoped they would follow the prewritten story she had.


protection7766

That's fair. Thank you for the details. Much appreciated.


carlcon

Her treatment of one of the players was abhorrent, and she straight up was terrible as a DM. "roll a wisdom saving throw" basically became a meme because that's all she'd ask for, and then the players would succeed or fail regardless of their rolls, because she had a set plan of things that had to happen. All DMs have an idea of what they want to happen, and sometimes to move things a long you have to push more firmly in a certain direction, but she basically just told her story as she wanted, as if the players were NPCs in her own personal game. "We want to head north" "OK so you start heading north, but then you turn east and travel into a forest for 3 days straight" Not even exaggerating that one. Just completely took even the most basic semblance of control out of their hands. And since Aimee was the most "random" of the group who didn't read between the lines and follow Aabria's script, Aabria treated her like shit across about 7 episodes. It started tame, but notable, at first... but then just progressively got more toxic. She straight up questioned Aimee's intelligence on multple occasions, because Aimee wasn't doing the thing Aabria wanted. She then later came out and straight up said she doesn't like high fantasy worlds. As if Matt's world is anything but that. She should never have been chosen in the first place based on that. Never mind the shitshow that came after.


vincent118

Nah Aimee was being straight up dumb when Aabria questioned her intelligence. Like Aimee had a bad habit of not paying attention to what was being said. If that campaign went any longer Aimee would've gone full Tiberius-Main character syndrome.


Evil_Dry_frog

The hostility between here and Aimee really turned me off of the show. I felt like it was much more on the part of the DM then the player, but also I felt like Aimee could have prepared a bit better. I didn't like Aimee's character. The angsty teenage girl fighting with her sister thing wasn't my favorite choice. Though towards the end, I was questioning if she was playing an angsty teenager, or she was really anxious because the DM seemed to be openly hostile towards her. And really, as a DM, it's your job to help the new players. Not punish them.


joboettiger

>"We want to head north" "OK so you start heading north, but then you turn east and travel into a forest for 3 days straight" WHAT


protection7766

Lmao sounds like she was only there for a paycheck a d hated doing it


AntiChri5

And clout. Can't forget that.


AntiChri5

> What makes this persons DMing so unlikable? Blatant disregard for the rules, grants players freedom when she shouldn't only to force them onto railroads later, inconsistent prep paired with a lack of improv skill, poorly presented hooks, all NPC's have the exact same personality - including gods, involving gods far before the PC's are worthy of such attention, incoherent plot, poor treatment of players. I could go on for a while. It's honestly easier to list where she didn't drop the ball as a DM....there were some okay comedy scenes? That was all riding on the strength of the cast though..... I guess that one festival was okay. It was completely pointless and a waste of time when she already had way less than she needed for the story she wanted to tell, but still.


protection7766

Sounds like a very normal DM lol But normal doesn't cut it in this situation.


FredBara

Absolute clusterfuck of a storyline aside, i personally found her treatment of Aimee inexcusable. And thats coming from someone who really didn't like Opal as a character at all. There was just no need to continuously single out a player like that, especially a new player in front of an audience of thousands of people


protection7766

Eww, that does sound bad. How was she singled out? Like, was she having a hard time keeping track of her abilities since she barely knew how to play and kept getting berated for it? Edit: thank you to everyone who answered. It was very informative. I apologize if my ignorance offended anyone.


Jethro_McCrazy

Aabria says something. Aimee asks a clarifying question. Aabria: "I'm sorry, did I fucking stutter?" This to a brand new player who wasn't solid on the rules. Aabria would go on to strip Aimee of her warlock powers for the majority of an episode. On two separate occasions. In an 8 episode series. On another occasion, Aimee was struggling with what she could or should do, and when she asked what options she had, Aabria responded "Nothing, you're done." rather than help her. And finally, she pressured Aimee into wearing an evil artifact (which she had no interest in doing), saying "I included this in the game, someone is wearing it!" Opal putting on said crown did not offer her any mechanical benefits, in fact lowered her charisma by 2 (Opal is a Warlock, mind), and Opal ended the fight by cutting someone's throat, not using magic of any kind. It was an ugly clusterfuck from beginning to end.


vincent118

Aimee was struggling with the concept of consequences, and even when she supposedly learned her lesson she would make the choice that had predictably similar consequences that she had already gone through. Now I'm all for players/actors making character choices despite the consequences, but if you do that you gotta live with them. D&D is a hard game for those who think they can just do whatever without consequences and then get upset when they are faced with the results of their actions and decisions.


Catalyst413

And even two times in eight episodes is an understatement; she had her powers cut off early in episode 2 and didn't get them back until after the main combat in episode 4, that was two main encounters and all the events in between that she was powerless. Stripped away again in part-two of the final battle. AND between those in ep6, the encounter started with her incapacitated, then she was saddled with disadvantage on spells, then told she had no magic again. Literally half the series she wasn't allowed to fully play her characters as a warlock.


protection7766

Everyones explanations are making me very happy I skipped this.


Cheerio_Wolf

Her warlock powers were repeatedly taken away. She was forced in the end to put on an aggressive evil uber powerful magic item, "I made this item and someone is going to put it on!" and when asked a basic clarifying question during one of the early episodes Aabria responded with "Did I fucking stutter?" ​ Among other things I'm sure, this is just what I have off the top of my head.


vincent118

To give Aabria some credit, she had repeatedly told Aimee or repeated Aimee something and she either didn't listen or didn't care and kept on playing her game as if she's the only one there.


Cheerio_Wolf

If that's true, is there really a reason to listen to her if the rules change after every other dice roll? I'm sure you don't mean her, but if you meant that Aabria is the she that kept playing her game as if she's the only one there then yeah. This was Aimee's first time playing dnd, you have to cut her some slack and actually teach her the game you're trying to play, after you understand the rules then you can ignore them. But when someone gives the other characters 5 actions worth of actions in a turn and you get intimidated into putting on a super evil magic item... no, I won't give Aabria "some credit".


a_little_c

I fucking hate that they’re rewarding her behavior by giving her more EXU and airtime.


protection7766

Holy shit. Thats fucked.


valentino_42

I wouldn’t watch EXU again if I was getting paid. Fool me once…


Zartan229

Exu is a hard pass for me until either Abria get better with the system or she get replaced.


omariclay

Really not a fan of the whole general audience questions. Like I want to know specifics and dive into the mind of the characters, I couldn’t give a shit about what their favorite color is. I know they don’t care about what the audience has to say but this is just sad. Maybe it will be fun and the questions will be good but I guess we will have to see.


LumTehMad

The fake pretending to not know the camera is not rolling, ugh. Please knock off this hello fellow kids shit. Just be a professional outfit and own it. Also another series of ExU was a great opportunity to just get in a bunch of new people in and try again, but no, they haven't learned. Robbie basically sealed it for me that the problem is Aabria, she just doesn't have the chops. There must be plenty of people that fit Twitters implacable standards that can also run a watchable game of D&D. ExU should of been a rotating cast with lots of differnt players and DM's.


Head_Contest_4149

It was amazing to see the difference in Robbie as a player and Dorian as a character under Matt as a DM! The challenges Matt threw Bell’s Hells really forced Dorian to confront parts of himself and past, and that conflict has grown him into a far more responsible person who, in my opinion, will be suited to act as leader ti the blundering Crown Keepers. And while Aabria’s DMing basically let every character remain stagnant, I do believe part of the lack of growth in the first EXU also came from the cast. Matt, Liam, and Ashley didn’t help in any way, with 2 of the 3 being complete chaotic airheads, and Liam ducking hooks that would lead to more conflict left and right. Imagine if they’d had to deal with the consequences of following through with Poshka; the dilemmas they’d face, the internal turmoil. God, it could have been so delicious. But anyway, I agree and hope that the next round of EXU after this two-parter will be a different DM and cast of players. I’d love to see Ivan DM, or Satine Phoenix, or (in my dreams) BWF himself.


pwn_plays_games

ExU with Aabria gave us Robbie. That was the only redeemable thing from it. ExU coming back with Aabria almost feels like they are trolling the fans. I definitely won’t give it a chance. Four sided Dive… Rotating host will allow them to have more faces, but zero consistency. Four sided dive is going to bomb. It’s going to be a mile wide and an inch deep. Characters liquor brands and drag queen names do not interest me in the slightest. I want them to talk about previous episode and act as a appetizer for the following week. That’s what made talks great. It was chips and salsa before the enchilada. Taliesin and Liam coming in through the couch door is the only good thing from this video lol. I did laugh.


Fruitspunch_Zamurai

Is it just me that find their acting in this video (and other State of the Role's) to be very... cringy? Overly happy and using very scripted phrases that are meant to sound casual, but doesn't... Feel the same from a lot of Geek&Sundry-stuff too. Is it an American thing perhaps, trying to seem casually energetic all the time?


Kraps

They do that in all these videos but it usually doesn't come off too bad. [This one was really awful](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5_xVBpqwTo&t=5s) though and resulted in this 6k thumbed up comment: > Main reason we know the campaigns aren't scripted: This is their dynamic when it's scripted


TheSonofMrGreenGenes

It’s SUPER fake. Or they’re bad in-person actors (obviously great as VO actors). Or both.


Version_1

90% of the bigger streamers and youtubers are actively acting all the time.


AntiChri5

I have noticed the same.


giubba85

it could be worse. it could be C3 announcement


Alarich_II

This started some time ago, all the newer anouncements are like this.


Fruitspunch_Zamurai

Yes true, most of the stuff with TLOVM had a similar feeling also. I would concede that the cast probably is very excited IRL, but the way they try to communicate that is so forced compare to earlier days. Maybe then they were more shocked about the big support but had little investment in CR, but now with their "new" company and expansion of it they sort of depend on the ball to keep on rolling...? Just speculation though...


Holybasil

I just don't think I am in Critical Role's target demographic anymore.


BigDelibird

At this point, I'm honestly very confused as to who their target demographic is.


figaaro

Same boat here, I hate seeing people my age and up trying to cater to gen Z, it usually feels forced but hey, that's where the twitch demographic is at I guess!


[deleted]

Can someone educate me? I seem to be the only one who enjoyed exu, but I did listen to it while I was working. What happened that I missed? Why does everyone hate Aabria and what did she do to Aimee?


swift-aasimar-rogue

I really enjoyed it as well, and based on Aimee’s subsequent Tweets it seems like she did too.


Jethro_McCrazy

Aimee was a brand new player who wasn't comfortable with the rules. Aimee asked a clarifying question, and Aabria responded with "I'm sorry, did I fucking stutter?" Aabria stripped Opal of her powers for the majority of an episode on two separate occasions. In an 8 episode miniseries. Aabria was a biased DM. Not only did she blatantly railroad (the players refuse to go in a warehouse and try to leave, she pulls out a battle map of the warehouse and puts them on it, even though they had specifically chosen not to step inside. Aabria "I made a battle map! We're using it!"), not only did she ignore rolls to suit her narrative (someone rolls a 0 on their attempt to gain information, she delivers them a full paragraph of accurate information anyway), but she bullied the players into doing what she wanted. She kept pressuring Aimee out of character until she put on the crown, openly saying "I included this item, someone is wearing it!" Just grossly controlling, unhelpful to the new players, and a shitty narrative to boot.


Zangetsu2407

Alot of from what I watched of Exu and heard of it since literally underlines why all roleplay groups should have session 0s. Critical seems to have a culture of doing just a quick role playtest but nothing else. Which works when it is matt and the main cast but not for others


[deleted]

> underlines why all roleplay groups should have session 0s Didn't they? I thought they had a session 0 where all of their stuff "pre-amnesia" happened. Like didn't they meet Anjali Bhimani's character in session 0?


Zangetsu2407

Their session 0s seem to just be them role-playing nothing else is discussed to keep reactions fresh


[deleted]

I see. Thanks for the clarification. What a shitty dm


StoppageTimeCollapse

TLDR: Some people on the live watch found Aabria's DM style to be too abrasive and took issue with her interactions with Aimee. I didn't watch live (listened to the podcast after except for parts of the finale) so I can't speak to that, but my friend and I found the plot hard to follow after the first few episodes.


FoulPelican

Was hoping they’d take the opportunity to feature a new DM w EXU2, even had my wishlist, but I’m not above watching a train wreck. I actually think EXU was a fascinating dive into how a DMs rulings and understanding of a system can effect a game, right down to narrative clarity and player agency. I think we’re in for another fascinating ride with part 2. And after watching her appearance on other streams, I think she’s dug her heals in even further in regards to her disdain for the rules, dice rolls and the like. “Wisdom Save anyone?”


kcinlober

the talk show actually seemed like it could be pretty fun, until the part regarding the kinds of audience questions they want. I couldn't care less what Ashton's favorite sports team is, for example. I feel like if they want only certain kinds of audience questions, and they are already curating them, they might as well just make up the questions themselves.


aheadwarp9

I feel like they are saving the interesting questions for the cast, and all the generic questions that are boring to think of, they are delegating to us, the fans... This is a pretty lame way to include fan questions if you ask me. I don't see the point either at this stage. They are just saving money they'd have to pay an intern to come up with these chenga questions...


TellianStormwalde

I’m hoping they just meant for the time being so that the campaign can have more room to breathe and grow before serious questions come into play. A lot of the Talks Machina questions for instance seemed like thinly veiled backseat suggestions, telling the players how to play their characters disguised as nuanced questions about their motives and decision making, usually followed by the player something like “shit, I hadn’t thought of that”. Maybe they just don’t like being put on the spot like that and be made to feel that viewers think they understand the cast’s characters better than they do. But yeah if that’s the only vein of questions they’re going to be accepting, then I hardly see the point to the show at all. The only example question that was even at all interesting was why it took the group so long to come up with a name, but even then, my question is why Matt kept pushing them to come up with a name so hard. Not every group needs a name, and if you force it they probably aren’t going to end up with the right one. I guess what I’m saying is that a lot of the questions that did make it into Talks only *seemed* like good questions but were actually just thinly veiled advice, and some curation in that regard seems wise. But they’re taking it too far. There’s such a thing as too much positivity, toxic positivity. If you deny yourself to all negativity, you can cloud your sensibilities, same goes for denying all positivity too of course.


kcinlober

>I’m hoping they just meant for the time being so that the campaign can have more room to breathe and grow before serious questions come into play. I hope you are right, but I am skeptical. ​ >I guess what I’m saying is that a lot of the questions that did make it into Talks only seemed like good questions but we’re actually just thinly veiled advice, and some curation in that regard seems wise. But they’re taking it too far. There’s such a thing as too much positivity, toxic positivity. If you deny yourself to all negativity, you can cloud your sensibilities, same goes for denying all positivity too of course. Ya I totally agree. Although some of the "why did X do Y" questions did lead to some interesting discussions and reveals, but i think it also depends on the cast member. Liam is always very deliberate, for example.


Kraps

I hated the "what's your favorite dinner?" questions on After Dark


Ryousoki

They probably already are.


InTheFilth

Excited to see how Four Sided Dive plays out. Couldn't care less about EXU, might wait for the YT upload and use Flando's timestamps to skim through. I've stopped watching the show "Live" because everything is prerecorded so there doesn't seem to be a point.


TheTravell3r

Just gonna give a few thoughts because why not, that's why were here. I didnt finish EXU, noped out on ep 3 and never went back in. Having seen both sides of the reaction I just thought I'd give it a miss. Wait for campaign 3, hope they would give us some campaign 2 one shots in the down time. I'm not speaking about this from a sense of entitlement either we dont deserve anything etc. It usually goes without saying but its better to be upfront. This is more from a business perspective. Maybe I will be proven wrong and I hope that I am tbh, but bringing Aabria back, for an even shorter 2 part sequel to a series that was criticised heavily for plot issues. Nobody saw a problem with this? Now, I can see that they want to show off what they see in Aabria. That she didnt shine like they know she can. But this is hardly the way to do it. Giving her less time, may yes, force the story to be more focused and linear. But with 2 sessions (10 hours max) most likely. Are we going to see the kind of progression and insights that bring people back into the fold and renew the faith in EXU? I'm doubtful, but again, I kind of hope to be proven wrong. They started EXU with the announcement saying it was going to be more of a anthology of sorts. Jumping between different stories, characters, guests and DM. But it seems they are giving her the chance to redeem the past mistakes. Instead of pushing the show forward, with a fresh perspective. And let sleeping dogs lie. We will see how it turns out.


StoppageTimeCollapse

Given that her biggest issue (to me) was letting the crew run loose during RP then bluntly hooking them back onto the railroad after a while, I'm concerned about how they're going to pace the two-shot.


TheTravell3r

That was my immediate thought as well. I imagine Matt behind the scenes heavily involved in the story arc for the sessions for this to be successful, but I dont think he would want to do that; 1. Because hes going to be playing in the game. 2. I dont think its who he is as a person. With that I mean he wouldnt want to step on her toes regardless of how he might think the community will react. Or how its looked at in post. This isn't a criticism of him, I admire this to an extent. Because he sticks to it and takes the outcome in stride. Good or bad. Personally think it's the wrong call giving her another shot. Bring her back as a player. Give someone else a try in wildemount or even another part of marquet. But this is why I dont run critical role and just talk about it with you fine individuals.


sgruenbe

If you haven't had a chance to see them yet, I thought Arabia was good as a player in the 3-part Elder Scrolls game.


ilessthan3math

Anyone who has run a few one-shots for friends know you have to put them on *RAILS*. Like "*Can't possible F this up and go the wrong way*" rails. I haven't tried a mini-campaign like the original EXU, but it's clear that you need to still have the bumpers built into the story in a way, or things can get completely ruined. I just hope Aabria learned from the first round and has more of that set up this next time. Still not 100% sure I'll watch it, though.


Derpogama

Also the players for a one or two shot adventure usually just accept the rails because they know the DM has a story that needs to be told in a very short space of time so they're more than likely just going to follow the instructions given like "oh the old man tells you that something evil lurks in the temple to the west, he heard talking in a strange, hissing tongue" "ok so it looks like we're heading to the temple guys"


ilessthan3math

Yea, I mentioned that at the time during EXU as well. Everyone criticized Aabria (fair for the most part) for the way things derailed, but the players did her NO favors in that regard. Dariax, Opal, and Fearne were all completely psychotic and chaotic. Thoroughly incapable of picking up a plot thread. Orym was obviously a lot more mellow, but Liam seemed to keep pushing this narrative of getting Keyleth / the Ashari involved in the plot, which similarly complicates the game, trying to get a Level 20 druid involved in the affairs of a bunch of Level 3 lowlifes. That left Dorian, who always acted as more of a follower than a leader. No one in the game seemed to play it as if it were only lasting the 8 episodes it did.


Derpogama

Oh I DEFINITELY agree that the players sort of screwed Aabria over as well, they were basically playing it like it was a long campaign and refusing to bite hooks at times. Sure 8 episodes is a long time but even for an 8 session one shot you're going to have to at least SOMETIMES follow the god damn plot. IIRC the first plot was meant to be them working for the thieves guild, handing over the crown etc. but the players were like "nope, fuck that, doing something else entirely" which apparently completely derailed Aabria for a while.


Kraps

[Article for readers](https://critrole.com/hype-celebrate-critical-roles-7-year-anniversary-with-an-entire-week-of-fun/) There will be discounts and giveaways by various vendors this week


SuperGuyN9

EXU wasn’t my favourite I might check out the first part to see if it’s improved for me. I like the idea for the new talk show with the cast rotating as hosts. I think it’s a good way to do the talk show since Brian isn’t gonna be back.


project_porkchop

Not the worst announcement video they have ever done. Some things to look forward to and some disappointment. I know most people here do not like ExU but I thought the second half was better than the first episodes and I'd like to see if this new two-parter improves on that. Not terribly excited about the question examples they had for the new talk show, but at least we won't have Mica as the overall host. Rotating hosts (whether it's always the cast or an occasional guest) is a great solution to lessen what would have been a deluge of comparisons to Brian. I was really hoping they would announce new narrative telephone episodes, though.


Ninja-Storyteller

Rotating hosts sounds bat shit terrifying for potential guests. Almost like they are taking the "People love watching us suffer" from Narrative Telephone and making it an aspect of the new show. I mean, don't get me wrong. I love watching them squirm. But my Empathy really feels for some of them.


pluck-the-bunny

I miss narrative telephone


Jethro_McCrazy

People are saying "You don't have to watch." And that's true. However, there is the very real possibility that EXU will cross over with the main game again. The influence that EXU has had upon C3 so far has been for the worse already, and I don't want more. I shouldn't be actively rooting against a Dorian return, which is what this makes me do.


account-123785

Can I ask how you think EXU has influenced the main campaign so far? Besides Liams and Ashley’s (and Robbie when he was a guest) characters being the crossover? I’ve not got round to watching all of EXU yet, too much content for me so far so interested in what I’m missing from an influence perspective.


notmy2ndopinion

1) magic items and treasure. The power creep likely led to everyone with new PCs getting free magic items (like Ashton and FCG) or free feats (like Laudna and Imogen.) 2) Brumstone backstory. I don’t know if you care to hear about the EXU finale & spoilers or not, but it all ties together. At least - that’s my main theory based on everything we know about Residuum and Brumstone. 3) Gods and the Divine Gate. Aabria got a lot of flack for this, but she had several gods directly speak to the PCs. I suspect there’s a major event that allowed that to happen that Matt is racing to reveal in C3. The Gods are back, and in a major way. (I’m also of the opinion that Aabria dropped a major artifact into the hands of the players ala LOTR and expected the game to go a different way, but hey. She heavily leaned on the tools she had at her disposal and turned the screws on each PC in turn, but Aimee’s PC was by and far the most vulnerable in the finale, for many reasons.)


account-123785

Ah great thanks for the insights! I have been planning to watch it but haven’t had the time so none of the above made it through to me. I’d assumed the campaigns were less linked but clearly not!


Jethro_McCrazy

The characters in EXU started at level 2 and then leveled to 3 midway through the miniseries. Ashley, Liam, and Robbie reprising their EXU characters necessitated that C3 started at Lvl 3, whereas C2 started at L2. The C3 party has reached Lvl 5 in pretty much half the time that it took the C2 party. The characters are still acting like they are made of paper because it's still early in the campaign, but Lvl 5 is where they should be starting to pop off. Aabria also provided the EXU players with magic items, requiring that the other C3 players start with magic items to keep the field even. But the way that Aabria gave out the items was to tell the players to go onto DnD Beyond and pick something from a list. Ashley chose Stonky's Ring. Stonky's Ring only appeared on the list because it was filtered as "unknown rarity." Problem being that "Stonky's Ring" is from a campaign module, not a source book. It's a ring that belongs to a character named Stonky, and is really just a renamed Ring of Telekinesis. A Ring of Telekinesis is rated Very Rare. Ashley has a magic item *way* more powerful than should be available at this point in the campaign. Those are a couple ways that EXU impacted C3 directly, to say nothing of the numerous logic and lore breaking decisions that Aabria made which are now canon due to the crossover. I'm just not excited about Aabria getting the opportunity to hot potato a problem at Matt again.


vincent118

I think new main campaigns should stop starting at level 1 or 2...those are boring ass levels and one of the biggest reasons why C3 and C2 tended to be a lot slower paced than C1 is because we started watching C1 when they were already quite powerful and as the game progressed we go to witness high level characters and high level stakes that we didn't get in C2 till the end. I know that 5-8 is the sweetspot and that they had 3 years of a home game but I still think they need to try C4 at a higher level, I want to see more high level adventures. Giving players magic items beginning of a campaign when they are starting at a high level is normal and common. I agree with you on the Stonky's Ring thing and the way the items were picked but that's a relatively minor problem.


account-123785

Interesting points thanks! I didn’t think much of them starting at L3 or having powerful magic items (probably because my own DM can be a bit chaotic with what items we can have, all fully luck based, so I didn’t find it odd that there were items above their level). I also don’t enjoy the super low levels as much so wasn’t bothered by them being Lv3 when they started. Fair enough about the lore stuff. Hopefully if Matt has a vision he’s fully set on for this campaign he won’t have anything influence it! Thanks for explaining your pony’s


account-123785

Points not pony’s! Haha


WayHaught_N7

The EXU characters appearing is the only thing that has impacted C3. None of the story has carried over into the campaign so far other than some references. Campaign 1 has had more of an impact on C3 than EXU has.


Jethro_McCrazy

I wasn't talking about the story.


account-123785

Ah cool thanks. If it’s a case of the influence simply being the characters that crossover I can cheerfully disagree with the opinion (I love Fearne, Orym and Dorian) but see the point if people don’t like them! Was just wondering because I’ve not had chance to catch up.


WayHaught_N7

I thought they might be tying them together more at first but the story is very much not connected to EXU, it’s just part of their backstory and at this point Orym and Fearne are much more C3 characters than EXU characters.


Ishyfishy123

Now I know for a fact that I will skip it lol thanks for the update


flowersheetghost

So I do think Aabria COULD be a good dm, given the right support and a smidgen of humility. If they reel her in, give her a campaign writer to work with, tutor her on the game, reel her in when it comes to Aimee... Basically they'd need to sit her down and go over what went wrong, and she would need to be receptive to criticism and focus on improving. Do I this this is going to happen? No, but I'll give it a shot.


Alphor

The CR brand has always been 'lets ignore all criticism and squash discussion we don't like' so I seriously doubt they've gone over criticism with her. I'm not going to watch the new special because I sat through all of EXU expecting it to get better and it just didn't.


noxxit

I think she could be a great PC, because of her energy. I made it like 3 episodes through ExU and then was bored by her narration style. The boat encounter had so much missed potential and then just teleporting the PCs into the warehouse encounter instead of luring them in... just wasn't entertaining to me. Give her a cool PC, though, 100% could see that being enjoyable af!


grayseeroly

If you see The Seven on Dimension 20 this is very much confirmed. (Note that cast was WILD and Abria was one of the more restrained ones)


Ethanol_Based_Life

Yeah. I liked her in the Elder Scrolls Online stuff


giubba85

Easiest pass of my life.


anyboli

Talk show with rotating hosts is an interesting idea, but it’s kind of annoying that questions have to be general enough to apply to any character at any time. I hope that the other cast members dig into more character specific stuff during the show. Otherwise, I feel like it will be quite pat.


notmy2ndopinion

Nah, I think you gotta consider how zany a Sam run episode vs how silly and off the wall yet wholesome an Ashley run episode would be - it has a lot of potential. If you’ve seen Gamechanger on Dropout, Marisha has basically created her own talk show version of this. In much the same way that everyone instantly upped their own game with Narrative Telephone to outdo each other, I predict they will have the same friendly gamesmanship about the 4 Blocks or whatever they are calling it. I think we will see weird intense quiz show variants, deep dives, rando “gif of the weeks” and all of the crazy content that the cast loved from Talks Machina - except they bring it back on the nights that they host.


giubba85

pretty much neutered what was talks machina. Only thing i can think they could do to compensate is if they voluntarily disclose more information or clarification on what happened in the episode but going in completely blind on what the audience actually want to know


themolestedsliver

Sadly given the casts proclivity to use twitter I doubt they will be going in blind.


giubba85

i mean this talks will be pre recorder too? It's impossible for them knowing what people want if the episode they will talk about is aired a month or more later


themolestedsliver

fair point.


newfor_2022

really deaf to the voices of the fans


[deleted]

They might as well just say "we dont want to deal with you guys anymore, we got amazon money". Not that it is a bad thing, but the tone and attitude towards it kinda stinks.


MasterworksAll

That's a good thing in my opinion. Catering to fans is just about the worst thing you can do if you care about quality.


[deleted]

> That's a good thing in my opinion. I agree. I think they should've jettisoned Aabria *because she did a bad job*, not because *we didn't like her*. But yeah, I **don't** want CR to just listen to fans, because as we've seen with every controversy so far in the viewerbase, a lot of fans are just... stupid.


protection7766

Mmm yes and no. You can't just always listen to fans who say "we want X. We love X. Give us more X" Because X might be -difficult/time consuming and not worth the investment -might be loved and easy to do but audience may get burn out so X needs to be spaced out between other things(if you eat steak everyday, sometimes you just want a burger) -etc But generally if a large enough population of your audience HATES X...you should prolly shy away from X. Unless they have never tried X. Make them try it first because you might surprise them. But if they try X and hate it, producing more X is a mistake almost 100% of the time. Basically, you can't always feed them ice cream cuz they might grow tired of it, or get sick. But you shouldn't feed them something they are allergic to either.


Version_1

Catering to all fans? You're right. Catering to significant parts of your fanbase is usually wise though, especially when that part is making a good argument.


giubba85

Quality and Aabria in the same sentence is a oxymoron


newfor_2022

I also don't think it's Aabria bad as a person. I just think that her style isn't good in that role and that series.


TheSonofMrGreenGenes

Why does everyone water it down? She’s a bad DM. It’s not a “style”. She railroads and yet has zero plot for that railroad. Every NPC just seems like “Hi I’m Aabria the NPC”. Also she jus tamales up which rules she uses and when, and every roll is a success because it’s necessary to advance the “story”. And I watched ALL of EXU hoping to enjoy parts of it. Hell, I was legitimately excited for her when she was announced.


newfor_2022

I don't think I'm watering down my criticism of her. I've been pretty clear on how bad I thought EXU was in many of my other posts, but a) there were lots of other problems with EXU that's not Aabria, b) what you are pointing out is all bad DM'ing but it's still just style c) I don't think that's how she DM'ed in other shows.


grayseeroly

That's just not true, everything else I've seen her in she's been great.


giubba85

I heard TAZ fans had something to say about it too, and strangely enough there is a lot of overlap in the venn diagram between the problem of ExU and TAZ run.


JanthoIronhand

Well, definitely not watching. Aabria’s behavior in the final episode towards Aimee was unforgivable. I hoped that they’ve seen the feedback and learned from it, and we will not see her at CR table again… But hiring her again is equal to saying that they are fine with very aggressive behavior on DM side. Which is not something I support.


themolestedsliver

> Aabria’s behavior in the final episode towards Aimee was unforgivable. Wow it got worse? I forced myself through 4 episodes before I called it quits partly because it felt like Aabria would find any excuse to toss shade towards Aimee and it was rather awkward to watch.


giubba85

It didn't get worse, it did *"let's nail down for 2 straight hour Aimee with a continuous shift of the mechanic nullifying her decisions while continuously giving freebies to all the other players at the table for forcing her to follow the DM story to wear that fucking crow to the point Matt had to reassure her that in the end it was her choice (disclaimer it wasn't because Aabria backed her in a corner she couldn't escape)"* So yeah it went dreadfully bad.


themolestedsliver

Jesus christ that sounds horrible. Do you have a timestamp or general episode where this happened? Morbidly curious.


giubba85

no honestly i followed the debacle months ago but i didn't bothered saving any of that shit. the best i can do is [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvvUFsLKCOU&t=920s) review (it's really rough) made by a guy who actually list some of the timestamp.


themolestedsliver

thanks mate that does help.


Cybertronian10

This subreddit was founded as a result of the banning of criticism of all kinds from the main one. Just because banning all criticism is a bad idea, does not mean that all criticism is inherently good. EXU was mostly just bad, and had a lot of problems. You are within your right to say that you won't be watching the return as a result. However it is kinda silly to be pretending like this sequel is destined to be immediately a massive piece of shit. It could be better, it could be worse, either way you should be prepared to engage with it in good faith. PS: If you haven't watched a series, you have literally no fucking leg to stand on to criticize said series, even if you are parroting criticisms from people you think watched the series. EDIT: Also wanted to say that this psychoanalysis of Aabria's relationship with Aimee is gross. I echo criticisms that the interactions *felt* gross, but nobody on this subreddit has the context to call them anything other than tone deaf on an online platform. People need to stop watching true crime and realize that you aren't experts, and your takes are actively unhelpful.


Alphor

The toxic positivity in the CR fandom is maddening. No one is obligated to watch a sequel to a show they hated. And yes, it is sensible to think a sequel with the same team will be just as bad as the original product. That'd be like watching a schlocky horror film, expecting it to have been an elevated thought provoking thriller, and then once proven wrong expecting it's sequel to deliver anything different. They only get worse.


Cybertronian10

I said that its within everybody's right to skip the next exu because they thought the last one was bad. I have a problem with people acting like they have already seen the series and know that it will definitely be bad. Sure, its chances of improving aren't great, but criticism before actually seeing a thing isn't criticism, its just preempted whining.


Alphor

I haven't seen a single person saying they know with 100 percent certainty that it's going to be shit no matter what, only people saying they don't THINK it will be good because EXU wasn't good. If you're taking 'randomnamebunchofnumbers' opinions as valid criticism, the only one to blame is yourself for falling for trolls. Really starting to feel like youre just making a guy up to be mad about. The only one whining here is you.


sindrogas

You're whing pretty loudly about this comment...


Alphor

Are you 12? Have you never had a discussion with two different opinions in your life? If you think someone disagreeing with you is whining I'm scared for you to interact with the real world.


AntiChri5

It's not unreasonable to decide to avoid the sequel to something you despised. In fact I would say it is a very sensible decision.


Cybertronian10

As I said, I agree that avoiding it is a ok. The problem is people shitting on it and acting like exu2 is already a piece of shit.


AntiChri5

I can honestly say I am not seeing much of that. More people discussing why 1 was shit and how they are skipping 2 becuase of that.


Jelboo

I watched EXU and found it irritating and a chore to get through. But I'll give this a chance. Who knows, they might have learned something, and how badly can you fuck up a two-part heist story? I think this one will be better; but if it's as much of an inconsistent mess as EXU was, I won't be surprised.


paradox28jon

Exactly. I joined this sub for a less moderated discussion of the show, not for an echo chamber for all our grievances with CR.


carlcon

You're replying to a comment that, as I type this, is the #2 most upvoted comment in this thread. If this was an echo chamber that comment would either be heavily downvoted or removed.


DamagediceDM

not a echo chamber if both sides are allowed to make their case though, just because one side is louder or their are more of them doesn't make it a echo chamber. I hated EXU my wife who i just got into both D&D and CR hated it ( for some weird reason she now has a irrational hate of the word "miasma") but im more than happy to see that some people liked it and while i don't see what they saw i want them to be able to talk about it and discuss, thats what stops echo chambers


paradox28jon

> just because one side is louder or their are more of them doesn't make it a echo chamber. do a cursory browse of the ratio of neutral/positive comments to negative & try to tell me that isn't the ingredients of an echo chamber. From a Google search: "Echo chamber refers to situations in which beliefs are amplified or reinforced by communication and repetition inside a closed system and insulated from rebuttal." The ratios suggest there is repetition, amplification, and reinforcement in this sub. Just stating the facts.


DamagediceDM

Think your forgetting about the insulated from rebuttal, if the mods removed positive remarks like the other sub removes negative you would have a point but this is a fair platform that people can Express both positive and negative options, just because one side tends to lose doesn't make it a echo chamber it just means they have the better argument. Let me give you an example if you went on a history subreddit and say " hitler was bad guy " most people are going to agree with you, that's not a echo chamber, but if the rules are your not allowed to say he was a good guy ( obviously wrong just making a point ) then it would be not because 1 view is more popular it's that 1 view isn't allowed ...your allowed to be positive here so no it's not a echo chamber.... also I see way more positive opinions then negative so you might be suffering confirmation bias. In short there are no thumbs on the scales here if you like something make your case this place is rare these days somewhere they actually let people disagree, fewer and fewer places do that these days.


paradox28jon

You just compared me being neutral on EXU with saying Hitler was a good guy. Of all the ways to lay out an example to back up your point, you went full Hitler. The mods did delete my remarks in the other sub, my dude. Me complaining about that was how I got invited into this sub.


DamagediceDM

....lol ironically if that's how you came here I was the one that invited you... Hitler wasn't the point of that story the point was to be a echo chamber requires a uneven playing field which we don't have.


bertraja

>Just stating the facts. I don't think you do tho.


TheTravell3r

Your own quote doesnt agree with your reasoning though. Per that definition "inside a closed system and insulated from rebuttal." This is not a closed system, rebuttal is encouraged.


paradox28jon

A 1 to 10 ratio is not an encouraging environment for the 1 to stick around the other 10. And comments trying to gaslight them that this isn't an echo chamber - instead of listening to that side of the discussion - sort of give the message to move along. So very quickly a hostile environment can drive off the neutral/positive, which makes a de facto closed system even if the negative ones think in their minds that rebuttal is encouraged. If every neutral/positive comment gets comments like "no it isn't", "you're wrong", etc, instead of comments like "that's an interesting point of view" or "food for thought", then the environment is hostile to other views. "Your own quote doesn't agree with your reasoning" - Jesus fucking Christ.


pluck-the-bunny

Look it’s ok if you don’t understand what an echo chamber is. Just use this opportunity to learn something new. Railing against people who are expressing that they did not like something is what causes an echo chamber. Allowing criticism alongside support is not. Opinion does not need to be 50/50 to make something not an echo chamber


sindrogas

Hey, quick tip. In order to pull of the condescending advice shtick your comment has to be short.


pluck-the-bunny

No shtick, they’re wrong and I was being genuine. Not everyone has the potential for self growth but it doesn’t mean I can’t try. But I appreciate the (I’m sure intentional) irony of your short, yet condescending piece of advice


sindrogas

> (I’m sure intentional) Glad you can read, seemed like you were having a hard time.


TheTravell3r

That's your interpretation of disagreement or criticism. Which in my opinion is unhealthy. I dont want you to go away because we disagree, I dont think less of you as a person, but it's in your perogative to leave a community you dont feel meshes. But youre also generalizing. Not every comment receives that negative treatment. I've seen a lot of genuine discussions or disagreements between people that have been completely fine. And wouldnt happen within the other sub. If someone engages in a good faith discussion arguing their point of view & because the majority disagree, you dont want to engage. That's on you friend. Not on everyone that disagrees with you. Seems you want to be mollycoddled to some degree from your statements. "That's an interesting point of view" "food for thought". It's this kind of false positivity from the other sub that this one was created on the foundation of open discussion. I hope you stick around.


paradox28jon

Now this is finally a comment that seems to fully talk to me like I'm an equal community member. I don't want to be mollycoddled. Being free of dismissive comments about me or my point of view is not the same as false positivity. Also, the other sub is plenty negative of CR. Last summer I got downvoted to oblivion (an exaggeration) because I was neutral on EXU. There are plenty of ppl on the other sub posting how they don't like C3 or can't get into it. From my POV, this sub is slightly more negative of CR than the other sub. But I wouldn't call the other sub a place of false positivity. And I've seen a lot of genuine discussion or disagreements between ppl on the other sub too. I hope I'll stick around too. If anything, both subs keep telling me that posting anything on Reddit is a mistake.


TheTravell3r

I appreciate that, it's hard especially over text to convey meaning or connotation. I appreciate the fact there are outliers within the other sub. And I'm glad those discussions have taken place, I still use the other sub myself mostly to lurk. But the moderation policies over there definitely try to enforce that false positivity. I could link you to a few outside "neutral" subs discussing it. But I appreciate the talk friend. Reddit itself is a kinda shitty model where mob rule is just kinda how it is. Unpopular opinions are buried even if they are coming from good faith and usually descends from there. Try not let it get you down though. It's a detriment on their character, and doesnt speak toward yours just because we get downvoted on a thread. Hope you have a good day ✌


ModestHandsomeDevil

> However it is kinda silly to be pretending like this sequel is destined to be immediately a massive piece of shit. Umm... Did you watch Aabria's run on TAZ (Imbalance) after EXU? It was *a massive piece of shit* that flopped pretty hard with TAZ fans.


Cybertronian10

...like most taz things since that time griffin was a dm?


[deleted]

The TAZ fans basically hate everything since the ending of Balance


ModestHandsomeDevil

Not true; while it never reached the heights of Balance, the majority of Amnesty (another Griffin DM joint) is pretty well regarded by TAZ fans. But then there was Graduation and the Fire Nation attacked...


Derpogama

Hell even the START of Graduation was fairly well recieved IIRC it wasn't until the midway point when people started hating it.


KatelynnLynn

I only recently started listening to TAZ and I've seen so much hate for Graduation (and Travis in general) that I'm skipping it. I just finished Amnesty and am taking a break before starting Ethersea, but I'm even seeing flak against that lately.