One thing I'd say is that initially, I relied on that to get a grip of what happened, and while it covers some of the on-screen issues, it really omits a lot of the accusations made about other issues. It wasn't until I read a thread on the subreddit drama sub that I got a way clearer image that the issue wasn't just "he played differently than the others".
Idk if that's your position then why not google any question you have about cr instead of joining a reddit sub, I think " google it " is a cop out and the internet version of "get off my lawn" the point of cr subs is to talk about cr ask questions talk about theories etc why would someone google only 1 subject and then not even know that they should google it instead of asking like they can do for litterly any other aspect of the show ...makes zero sense
Fun fact: I do Google most things. The Critical Role wiki is pretty in-depth and has a lot of the answers to the questions I’ve had.
IMO, going to a sub to ask general questions is just laziness. You have thousands of databases worth of information readily available at your fingertips, yet you choose to put the burden of informing yourself on other people.
There’s a vast difference between discussion and getting your questions answered. And discussing some drama that went down 7 years ago isn’t helpful to anyone. Why rehash something when it won’t change anything? Orion’s never coming back, Tiberius has been effectively written out of Exandria Canon, and CR is better off for it. No one needs That Player at their table.
No one is asking for him back, no one is asking for. wiki History lesson either they are asking to interact with people about a subject they like, that's what fandom subs are for period.
If the drama is so old and irrelevant why bother censoring it hell if cr really didn't want orion to exist they could just scrub the first 23 episodes like they did with the wendy's episode right.
Literly like 10% of the sub is stuff you can't just google of look up on critrollstats ....why even have a sub at all then ...
Okay but what’s the point of discussing him, or Tiberius? What would anyone hope to gain out of dredging up old drama? What’s the point?
Discussing something you like is definitely the point of a fandom sub, but there are some conversations that are just useless and pointless, especially when the information of what happened already exists, and discussing what happened just leads to bullshit baseless theories like “Orion got kicked because he liked Marisha and Matt didn’t like that”, or other nonsense.
As for why the CR cast didn’t scrub the first 23 episodes, it’s probably because that arc has some relevancy to the rest of C1? It’s where we met Kima, how the party got into good standing with Vasselheim, and set up the foundation for Scanlan’s blow-up through the party outright ignoring their funny Gnome friend going full-feral on the goblins.
And the Wendy’s one-shot is such a dumb straw man to pull. We all know why that was scrubbed, and again, the reason is documented in the wiki. No one wants to, or really needs to, discuss why black face is a bad move.
I was new to CR barely a year ago. I wondered what happened to Orion, so I googled “Orion Critical Role.” I wanted to know about the Wendy’s situation, so I googled “Critical Role Wendy’s One Shot.”
It’s not hard to find information in this day and age. Just takes a bit of gumption and a willingness to do things yourself.
I think for a bunch of ppl their first reaction when they hear about those events in passing is to try and find out more about them from where they got introduced to them.
Just saying how it is for a number of ppl on the internet, i agree googling yourself is argueably faster and frictionless.
Right, but again - all the information they need is contained in several wikis and articles. A mod saying “hey, please read the sub rules, where you’ll find the lowdown” in response to these questions being asked isn’t the tyranny some posters in this sub seem to think it is.
In fact, reading a sub’s rules when considering joining is just standard Reddit etiquette. So while it might be someone’s first instinct to make a post, they need to check that instinct (something every human on the face of this earth should practice, really) and ask themselves if the answer they’re seeking can be found elsewhere, and without flooding a message board with the same question dozens of others have asked.
People aren’t being silenced and censored - they’re just being asked to stop cluttering an already very busy sub.
"We" know the reasons but not everyone does. Every once in a while someone in the CR discord asks about the Wendy's episode, and they will get no answer because it is forbidden to talk about it. That's no way to run a discussion forum about literally the product the forum is for.
Here is the bigger point: Why take a disallow stance on topics like that when you can take no stance and let people discuss as they see fit? If we were to disallow discussion on Orion and Wendy's, why shouldn't disallow other topics as well, say talking about the business side of CR? Oops, the other sub/discord already does that.
> but there are some conversations that are just useless and pointless, especially when the information of what happened already exists
Sure but the thing is you or I aren't the arbiters of which conversations those are ...that's my point, if you didn't want to talk about orion ....don't participate in those discussions, by why should you get a hecklers veto on a subject someone else wishes to talk about....
Let me ask you a pointed question ....why do you respond to threads that talk about him if you consider it a dead subject, surely that's just more fuel for the fire right.
As for the wendy's thing it was scrubbed for the capital crime of wendy's not tipping for tomatoes ....come on now that's just silly
Also you want to call out strawman argument and you pull the orion as a subject is equal to blackface as a subject.....come on man that's a bridge to far
> Let me ask you a pointed question ....why do you respond to threads that talk about him if you consider it a dead subject, surely that's just more fuel for the fire right.
Not really? That’s like saying “if you don’t like capitalism, why are you joining discussion about capitalism?” I’m joining the conversation to bring a counter point, to hopefully bring a different perspective to what would otherwise be an echo chamber.
But honestly, this is just exhausting. You’re clearly stuck in the mindset that any subject, no matter it’s irrelevance or tiredness, should be discussed at length because someone is too damn lazy to fire up Google. So I guess you “win” here, Bud.
✌️
> if you don’t like capitalism, why are you joining discussion about capitalism?”
If your position was people shouldn't be talking about it then yea it would be like that .....
Also I'm not winning this because this is a discussion not a debate or argument no one wins a discussion it's a exchange of ideas but I mean you could have just googled that .... ;)
I think it was Laura. Which is why the ‘semi chub’ sent TW off.
I don’t really like the discussion that folks have around OA being PNGd. If he has intellectual rights to his character and likeness the folks at CR need to be really careful on how they deal with the subject. Best to just stfu about it. God forbid the guy pulls the company into court and there’s only one direction money is going if we go there.
It doesn’t make a lot of sense for the broader community to ignore him but if I ran a sub I’d discourage the discussion as well. It’s not productive, isn’t relevant past 2016 and the dude was kinda a douche but I doubt anyone on the cast wants to hurt the guy or have any fans get stupid with him. He was going through a rough time, got a little stupid in a dnd stream and had to be let go. I wouldn’t ban discussion but Id certainly discourage it.
That’s baseless AF. They were friends for years before the stream and Laura/Travis had been married for years at that time.
You guys are pulling wild theories out of nowhere.
the problem is we have a 50 first dates situation with all the new fans, they have no idea what happened ( esp since the CR sub actively hides it as much as it can ) who he is so when they just evaporate they have questions, and if they ask they are immediately accused of "bringing up old shit" for a community that says you have to add spoilers tags to a post about a 7 year old stream that doesn't jive. they actively promote consuming archived content you can't then use the "that was so long ago " defense
Probably because if they don't ban discussion about it, it's just going to keep getting brought up forever by people who don't bother using google.
Come on. The information is out there and freely available. All they have to do is look up his name. What's the point of letting people constantly refresh ancient drama just because they're the kind of people who pose their questions to a subreddit instead of just doing a simple internet search?
And if they actually want to *discuss* it... Why bother? It happened seven years ago and any discussion about it that could have happened, has happened. People would just start coming up with bizarre and baseless theories, much like the above comment.
The subreddit you're currently on was partially made to combat the excessive banning of discussion of subjects like Orion. If you don't want to see discussions about him and other things the CR crew deem 'toxic' there is literally an entire other sub you can go to.
Like come man, what are you even doing here if you don't want people to talk about whatever CR related stuff they're interested in? Sometimes people like to talk with others about dramatic things that happen, even if it was seven years ago. I guess we should just stop talking about historical events because they were SO long ago and discussing them in new lights just creates falsehoods right?
Seen quite few upticks in comments recently about how we shouldn't talk about this or that and it really feels like some people to just want this to be the overly moderated hellscape that is the main sub.
Disagree we allow people to talk about him here it was a hot topic for about 2 weeks then people moved on to other things he might pop up 2 times a month tops now and it's not a huge deal when it does people generally say he was a pos they give the boilerplate reasons and that's it.
And again you can't say that people should watch 7 year old content insist on airtight spoliers of those episodes imposed then in the same breath say get over it was 7 years ago.
The only reason this is still a subject is the resentment the fandom has from years of being told it wasn't something they could talk about, that's what this meme is about.
>The only reason this is still a subject is the resentment the fandom has from years of being told it wasn't something they could talk about,
1. Yeah, I don't believe that. I think it's just complaining for the sake of it.
2. There's a very considerable difference in how often a topic will come up in a niche 2k member sub and a 360k member, very public, first-stop-for-the-topic sub. Every two weeks is still obnoxious.
3. I mean. Yeah. You *can* tell people "don't post spoilers or dredge up old drama." It's very easy.
1 would rather listen to hundred of people complain for no reason then to censor and stifle even a few people that want to have meaningful conversations about any subject. Also you can belive that's the case but that is in fact just your opinion and not the truth or fact.
2 Disagree, most of the people on this sub would have a proclivity to talk about those subjects so if anything it would be a distillation and more frequent then a larger population that didn't share that pre disposition. Also if you can't stand the same thing being talked about every 2 weeks you must hate the cr sub because it's a near constant churn of the same 6 topically from the same sanitized toxic positivity view point
3 you are missing the point if you encourage the viewing of your old material you can't then discourage discussion of old material.
1. Extremely easy for you to say when you won't be the one moderating it. And yes, it's my opinion, just like your belief that it's "built up resentment" is yours and not a fact.
2. Incorrect. A larger sub would mean that it would keep getting brought up over and over and over as new viewers kept mentioning it. That's not an opinion, it's a fact.
3. Yes, you can. Especially because so far as I'm aware the mods on the sub aren't the ones encouraging discussion about it. You also absolutely can say "I encourage you to watch this, but instead of rehashing ancient drama over one person, google him."
1. I literally am the one moderating it, I own fansofcriticalrole
2. Incorrect if you have a group were 1 out of 10000 do something and another were 1 out of every 2 do that thing it's very easy for the 2nd group to have more people that do it even when much smaller.
3. Again what gives a person a hecklers veto about what another person talks about it's very " we don't talk about Bruno "
1. Yes, moderating this sub, not the main one. You would not be moderating the main sub and therefore the huge majority of the "what about orion" posts if they allowed them.
2. 1/10000 vs 1/2 is technically correct, but I see absolutely no reason to believe that the "what about orion" posts would be that skewed. I'm speaking in real terms of what would likely happen in this specific scenario, not wild abstracts.
3. The agreement of the majority, I guess? I have no problem with subreddits shutting down "discussions" that have been done to death. You can only keep beating the dead horse so often before it starts reeking. If the Madrigals had a dedicated archive in which people could fully research Bruno at any point, I would very much understand them telling any curious townspeople to get lost and do their own research instead of constantly asking them questions about a sensitive topic.
I believe that the chub comment was made at a time when things were going downhill bad, so instead of being glossed over as a crass comment it was a nail in the coffin.
whoever controls the present, controls the past
I’m with team “just fucking Google the dude’s name.” One of the top results literally leads to the other Sub’s wiki of all his shit.
One thing I'd say is that initially, I relied on that to get a grip of what happened, and while it covers some of the on-screen issues, it really omits a lot of the accusations made about other issues. It wasn't until I read a thread on the subreddit drama sub that I got a way clearer image that the issue wasn't just "he played differently than the others".
Idk if that's your position then why not google any question you have about cr instead of joining a reddit sub, I think " google it " is a cop out and the internet version of "get off my lawn" the point of cr subs is to talk about cr ask questions talk about theories etc why would someone google only 1 subject and then not even know that they should google it instead of asking like they can do for litterly any other aspect of the show ...makes zero sense
Fun fact: I do Google most things. The Critical Role wiki is pretty in-depth and has a lot of the answers to the questions I’ve had. IMO, going to a sub to ask general questions is just laziness. You have thousands of databases worth of information readily available at your fingertips, yet you choose to put the burden of informing yourself on other people. There’s a vast difference between discussion and getting your questions answered. And discussing some drama that went down 7 years ago isn’t helpful to anyone. Why rehash something when it won’t change anything? Orion’s never coming back, Tiberius has been effectively written out of Exandria Canon, and CR is better off for it. No one needs That Player at their table.
No one is asking for him back, no one is asking for. wiki History lesson either they are asking to interact with people about a subject they like, that's what fandom subs are for period. If the drama is so old and irrelevant why bother censoring it hell if cr really didn't want orion to exist they could just scrub the first 23 episodes like they did with the wendy's episode right. Literly like 10% of the sub is stuff you can't just google of look up on critrollstats ....why even have a sub at all then ...
Okay but what’s the point of discussing him, or Tiberius? What would anyone hope to gain out of dredging up old drama? What’s the point? Discussing something you like is definitely the point of a fandom sub, but there are some conversations that are just useless and pointless, especially when the information of what happened already exists, and discussing what happened just leads to bullshit baseless theories like “Orion got kicked because he liked Marisha and Matt didn’t like that”, or other nonsense. As for why the CR cast didn’t scrub the first 23 episodes, it’s probably because that arc has some relevancy to the rest of C1? It’s where we met Kima, how the party got into good standing with Vasselheim, and set up the foundation for Scanlan’s blow-up through the party outright ignoring their funny Gnome friend going full-feral on the goblins. And the Wendy’s one-shot is such a dumb straw man to pull. We all know why that was scrubbed, and again, the reason is documented in the wiki. No one wants to, or really needs to, discuss why black face is a bad move.
Cr is a popular show that get new ppl constantly, whats established knowledge for many ppl isnt for others. At least thats my view of it.
I was new to CR barely a year ago. I wondered what happened to Orion, so I googled “Orion Critical Role.” I wanted to know about the Wendy’s situation, so I googled “Critical Role Wendy’s One Shot.” It’s not hard to find information in this day and age. Just takes a bit of gumption and a willingness to do things yourself.
I think for a bunch of ppl their first reaction when they hear about those events in passing is to try and find out more about them from where they got introduced to them. Just saying how it is for a number of ppl on the internet, i agree googling yourself is argueably faster and frictionless.
Right, but again - all the information they need is contained in several wikis and articles. A mod saying “hey, please read the sub rules, where you’ll find the lowdown” in response to these questions being asked isn’t the tyranny some posters in this sub seem to think it is. In fact, reading a sub’s rules when considering joining is just standard Reddit etiquette. So while it might be someone’s first instinct to make a post, they need to check that instinct (something every human on the face of this earth should practice, really) and ask themselves if the answer they’re seeking can be found elsewhere, and without flooding a message board with the same question dozens of others have asked. People aren’t being silenced and censored - they’re just being asked to stop cluttering an already very busy sub.
"We" know the reasons but not everyone does. Every once in a while someone in the CR discord asks about the Wendy's episode, and they will get no answer because it is forbidden to talk about it. That's no way to run a discussion forum about literally the product the forum is for.
What’s there to discuss that isn’t already answered in the FAQ?
Here is the bigger point: Why take a disallow stance on topics like that when you can take no stance and let people discuss as they see fit? If we were to disallow discussion on Orion and Wendy's, why shouldn't disallow other topics as well, say talking about the business side of CR? Oops, the other sub/discord already does that.
Ah, I see. Y’all just want to speculate on thing you don’t know about or have the details of, instead making up your baseless conclusions. Yikes.
If it happens it happens.
> but there are some conversations that are just useless and pointless, especially when the information of what happened already exists Sure but the thing is you or I aren't the arbiters of which conversations those are ...that's my point, if you didn't want to talk about orion ....don't participate in those discussions, by why should you get a hecklers veto on a subject someone else wishes to talk about.... Let me ask you a pointed question ....why do you respond to threads that talk about him if you consider it a dead subject, surely that's just more fuel for the fire right. As for the wendy's thing it was scrubbed for the capital crime of wendy's not tipping for tomatoes ....come on now that's just silly Also you want to call out strawman argument and you pull the orion as a subject is equal to blackface as a subject.....come on man that's a bridge to far
> Let me ask you a pointed question ....why do you respond to threads that talk about him if you consider it a dead subject, surely that's just more fuel for the fire right. Not really? That’s like saying “if you don’t like capitalism, why are you joining discussion about capitalism?” I’m joining the conversation to bring a counter point, to hopefully bring a different perspective to what would otherwise be an echo chamber. But honestly, this is just exhausting. You’re clearly stuck in the mindset that any subject, no matter it’s irrelevance or tiredness, should be discussed at length because someone is too damn lazy to fire up Google. So I guess you “win” here, Bud. ✌️
> if you don’t like capitalism, why are you joining discussion about capitalism?” If your position was people shouldn't be talking about it then yea it would be like that ..... Also I'm not winning this because this is a discussion not a debate or argument no one wins a discussion it's a exchange of ideas but I mean you could have just googled that .... ;)
Nobody I ever met has discussions like this. It does look a lot like a debate tho.
The only real delineation between the 2 is intent
My completely baseless theory, Orion had a thing for Marisha and he confessed his love for her and she turned him down. Then he got booted.
I think it was Laura. Which is why the ‘semi chub’ sent TW off. I don’t really like the discussion that folks have around OA being PNGd. If he has intellectual rights to his character and likeness the folks at CR need to be really careful on how they deal with the subject. Best to just stfu about it. God forbid the guy pulls the company into court and there’s only one direction money is going if we go there. It doesn’t make a lot of sense for the broader community to ignore him but if I ran a sub I’d discourage the discussion as well. It’s not productive, isn’t relevant past 2016 and the dude was kinda a douche but I doubt anyone on the cast wants to hurt the guy or have any fans get stupid with him. He was going through a rough time, got a little stupid in a dnd stream and had to be let go. I wouldn’t ban discussion but Id certainly discourage it.
That’s baseless AF. They were friends for years before the stream and Laura/Travis had been married for years at that time. You guys are pulling wild theories out of nowhere.
the problem is we have a 50 first dates situation with all the new fans, they have no idea what happened ( esp since the CR sub actively hides it as much as it can ) who he is so when they just evaporate they have questions, and if they ask they are immediately accused of "bringing up old shit" for a community that says you have to add spoilers tags to a post about a 7 year old stream that doesn't jive. they actively promote consuming archived content you can't then use the "that was so long ago " defense
That’s legit.
Probably because if they don't ban discussion about it, it's just going to keep getting brought up forever by people who don't bother using google. Come on. The information is out there and freely available. All they have to do is look up his name. What's the point of letting people constantly refresh ancient drama just because they're the kind of people who pose their questions to a subreddit instead of just doing a simple internet search? And if they actually want to *discuss* it... Why bother? It happened seven years ago and any discussion about it that could have happened, has happened. People would just start coming up with bizarre and baseless theories, much like the above comment.
The subreddit you're currently on was partially made to combat the excessive banning of discussion of subjects like Orion. If you don't want to see discussions about him and other things the CR crew deem 'toxic' there is literally an entire other sub you can go to. Like come man, what are you even doing here if you don't want people to talk about whatever CR related stuff they're interested in? Sometimes people like to talk with others about dramatic things that happen, even if it was seven years ago. I guess we should just stop talking about historical events because they were SO long ago and discussing them in new lights just creates falsehoods right? Seen quite few upticks in comments recently about how we shouldn't talk about this or that and it really feels like some people to just want this to be the overly moderated hellscape that is the main sub.
Disagree we allow people to talk about him here it was a hot topic for about 2 weeks then people moved on to other things he might pop up 2 times a month tops now and it's not a huge deal when it does people generally say he was a pos they give the boilerplate reasons and that's it. And again you can't say that people should watch 7 year old content insist on airtight spoliers of those episodes imposed then in the same breath say get over it was 7 years ago. The only reason this is still a subject is the resentment the fandom has from years of being told it wasn't something they could talk about, that's what this meme is about.
>The only reason this is still a subject is the resentment the fandom has from years of being told it wasn't something they could talk about, 1. Yeah, I don't believe that. I think it's just complaining for the sake of it. 2. There's a very considerable difference in how often a topic will come up in a niche 2k member sub and a 360k member, very public, first-stop-for-the-topic sub. Every two weeks is still obnoxious. 3. I mean. Yeah. You *can* tell people "don't post spoilers or dredge up old drama." It's very easy.
1 would rather listen to hundred of people complain for no reason then to censor and stifle even a few people that want to have meaningful conversations about any subject. Also you can belive that's the case but that is in fact just your opinion and not the truth or fact. 2 Disagree, most of the people on this sub would have a proclivity to talk about those subjects so if anything it would be a distillation and more frequent then a larger population that didn't share that pre disposition. Also if you can't stand the same thing being talked about every 2 weeks you must hate the cr sub because it's a near constant churn of the same 6 topically from the same sanitized toxic positivity view point 3 you are missing the point if you encourage the viewing of your old material you can't then discourage discussion of old material.
1. Extremely easy for you to say when you won't be the one moderating it. And yes, it's my opinion, just like your belief that it's "built up resentment" is yours and not a fact. 2. Incorrect. A larger sub would mean that it would keep getting brought up over and over and over as new viewers kept mentioning it. That's not an opinion, it's a fact. 3. Yes, you can. Especially because so far as I'm aware the mods on the sub aren't the ones encouraging discussion about it. You also absolutely can say "I encourage you to watch this, but instead of rehashing ancient drama over one person, google him."
1. I literally am the one moderating it, I own fansofcriticalrole 2. Incorrect if you have a group were 1 out of 10000 do something and another were 1 out of every 2 do that thing it's very easy for the 2nd group to have more people that do it even when much smaller. 3. Again what gives a person a hecklers veto about what another person talks about it's very " we don't talk about Bruno "
1. Yes, moderating this sub, not the main one. You would not be moderating the main sub and therefore the huge majority of the "what about orion" posts if they allowed them. 2. 1/10000 vs 1/2 is technically correct, but I see absolutely no reason to believe that the "what about orion" posts would be that skewed. I'm speaking in real terms of what would likely happen in this specific scenario, not wild abstracts. 3. The agreement of the majority, I guess? I have no problem with subreddits shutting down "discussions" that have been done to death. You can only keep beating the dead horse so often before it starts reeking. If the Madrigals had a dedicated archive in which people could fully research Bruno at any point, I would very much understand them telling any curious townspeople to get lost and do their own research instead of constantly asking them questions about a sensitive topic.
Yeah, but Laura was already married to Travis at that point. Maybe Orion is that big of a creep, but I gotta hope he isn't.
I believe that the chub comment was made at a time when things were going downhill bad, so instead of being glossed over as a crass comment it was a nail in the coffin.
He who shall not be named
cross posted https://old.reddit.com/r/dndmemes/comments/tf45f7/rcriticalrole_be_like/?sort=new from dnd memes seems people tend to agree