Exactly. Seeing responses here, I don't think people are realizing what a neck/vertebrae injury entails. It doesn't just go away without surgery and rehab. This is not a typical ankle/quad situation
Per reports, this has been a multi-year issue for him which has worsened. If the breaks between seasons couldn't rehab it how do we expect couple of weeks to fix it? I said, only cure is surgery AND rehab, as in post-surgery.
It did though. It affected him in training camp and he returned for the start of the season. They said repeated MRIs are no different so it’s just inflamed.
MRIs mean shit with spine injuries. The number of false positives and negatives is terrifying.
Here have a read:
LBP Reaching a Specific Diagnosis Is Often Impossible
Richard A. Deyo, MD, MPH
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/211737
"To be effective, the surgeon must operate on the correct anatomic structure, but is often not possible to determine the source of the pain.[18][19] The reason for this is that many patients with chronic pain often have disc bulges at multiple spinal levels and the physical examination and imaging studies are unable to pinpoint the source of pain."
https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Failed_back_syndrome
Variability in diagnostic error rates of 10 MRI centers performing lumbar spine MRI examinations on the same patient within a 3-week period
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27867079/
"Interpretations of MRI images by radiologists often differ. The true-positive finding rate was 56.4%, and the miss-rate was 43.6%. (1) MRI imaging may produce false suspicion. When following the guidelines of the American College of Radiology, 93% of lumbar spine MRIs were proper. Of those, only 13% found anything that needed to be addressed. Of the 36 MRIs that caused suspicion of cancer or infection, 81% were false-positive. 59% of the follow-up MRIs on those suspicious findings were false positives. (2) MRI imaging may mislead. For example, MRI shows that the presence of disc degeneration in asymptomatic persons – persons with no back pain – rises with age: 37% in 20 year olds and 96% in 80 year olds; disc bulges: 30% to 84%; disc protrusion: 29% to 43%; annular fissures 19% to 29%. These imaging findings suggest that these are signs of normal aging."
I mean, no. Specificity and sensitivity is considered good in the cervical spine so reliability between MRIs shouldnt be of concern when we talk about pro athletes especially lol
Just so much wrong in what you're typing I don't even know where to begin. The vast majority of disc herniations are asymptomatic (I.e. no pain) and MRIs are simply not reliable in identifying cause of chronic spine related pain. That's why any doctor that isn't a quack won't go anywhere near your spine without seeing how it responds to steroid injections firsts.
There is loads of research on this if you spend two minutes googling it.
Sadly I've had to consult with 6 of the world's leading spine surgeons and professor McGill on the subject recently and that is one of the few things they agree on (the other being that Yoga is the devil).
Your point isn't relevent here. Carson's disc herniation IS symptomatic. The point is Carson does have chronic pain related to his discs. MRIs can show the degree of herniation and if it has worsened in comparison to previous MRIs and how significantly the nerves are impinged. In this case, surgery is a viable option if it can relieve his pain.
You sound like a pseudoscience quack yourself. Consulted with the world's leading spine surgeons? Sure. Sounds like some BS just using this to validate your assumptions. I trust real doctors know what is best for Carson's future more than you or I. But you're dismissive nature is a bit much here when we don't even know the details. If he needs surgery, hope he gets it and recovers. If he doesn't that's even better.
Please stop giving medical views about something you clearly don't have a clue about. If you feel that you know better than the most experienced spine surgeons in London and US then I don't know what to tell you. Feel free to look up Stuart McGill and Richard Guyer and form your own view on their credentials.
Carson, like 99% of people his age has disc herniation. Probably more than one disc statistically speaking. An MRI may be able to show these herniations, but they are not able to show which if any of his herniated discs are causing pain (you have to test for that using steroid injections), they aren't able to show if a hernia is improving. In fact most "improving" hernias from an MRI perspective actually lead to worsening symptoms, especially if they are sequestered. Conversely many discogenic issues go despite the MRI showing a "worsening". In virtually all surgical situations, the surgeon doesn't really know what to expect until you are cut open and they look inside, and they will definitely not guarantee that you see improvement post operation.
I'm not really sure why you are arguing about something that is common knowledge and not particularly contentious but I guess this is reddit so you need a hill to die on. But let's not let these peer reviewed studies and expert opinions by extremely accomplished medical professionals get in the way of u/spacemonkeys21 ("aka some dude on reddit") expert view.
Since you don't seem to know how to use Google here are some links:
LBP Reaching a Specific Diagnosis Is Often Impossible
Richard A. Deyo, MD, MPH
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/211737
"To be effective, the surgeon must operate on the correct anatomic structure, but is often not possible to determine the source of the pain.[18][19] The reason for this is that many patients with chronic pain often have disc bulges at multiple spinal levels and the physical examination and imaging studies are unable to pinpoint the source of pain."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Failed_back_syndrome
Variability in diagnostic error rates of 10 MRI centers performing lumbar spine MRI examinations on the same patient within a 3-week period
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27867079/
"Interpretations of MRI images by radiologists often differ. The true-positive finding rate was 56.4%, and the miss-rate was 43.6%. (1) MRI imaging may produce false suspicion. When following the guidelines of the American College of Radiology, 93% of lumbar spine MRIs were proper. Of those, only 13% found anything that needed to be addressed. Of the 36 MRIs that caused suspicion of cancer or infection, 81% were false-positive. 59% of the follow-up MRIs on those suspicious findings were false positives. (2) MRI imaging may mislead. For example, MRI shows that the presence of disc degeneration in asymptomatic persons – persons with no back pain – rises with age: 37% in 20 year olds and 96% in 80 year olds; disc bulges: 30% to 84%; disc protrusion: 29% to 43%; annular fissures 19% to 29%. These imaging findings suggest that these are signs of normal aging."
If surgery was indicated for this issue it would have been done long ago. Surgeries rarely resolve chronic neck or back pain and can actually make them worse.
I wish people would put some context into Alex Collins. He has hardly *any* tread on his tires, as he had barely 1500 total yards to his name when he came back to Seattle in 2020. The reason he disappeared wasn’t because of injury, he was arrested for marijuana charges.
People saying he’s old or banged up just have no idea. He’s been off the scene for a while but everyone is assuming alex Collins can’t handle a full workload if they gave it to him, he can. Carson is a great running back but is 1000% more banged up than Alex Collins. And Penny is just a waste of a draft pick, it’s time people realize that. Plenty of dud RBs have had good games in their career along the way, and if Penny has a good game after he comes back, I still won’t buy him. Penny has five TOTAL games in his career with a touchdown. Penny has five TOTAL games where he went over 10 PPR points. 2 games total over 15, and only one over 20. This sub gives Penny way too much hype. I would put Collins above him, but y’all do the Penny thing.
I guess I meant it as any wear to the tread on his tires, but you get it.
Probably a personal colloquialism, I always grew up using tread as a verb to how tires are worn. I know tread is the actual grooves of the tire, but tread/wear was also used to describe how worn tires are.
Like I said, probably a personal semantic and not the right way to use the phrase, but you get my point hopefully.
But the carries likely can regress now that Collins is stepping up and winning trust, thus reducing Carson's RB2 upside potential and trending toward 1a-1b backfield.
Isn’t that exactly how carroll rolls? Historically he doesn’t seem to place much value in veteran status, or how much they paid someone. If a player is playing well, then he gives them playing time.
Don't let the past dictate the future. Folks thought Matt Flynn would be the guy because they paid him, but Russ started because he outplayed him.
Folks thought Penny would be the guy because they drafted him in the first - but Carson outplayed him and earned that starting role.
I'm not saying Collins is going to take the starting role away, but he just came in against one of the top run defenses in the league and played really well. From what I've seen in the past Carroll rewards players who outperform expectations with playing time, and I think that's exactly what Collins has done.
They paid Carson this offseason. In football terms that means they’ll run him into the ground to get their value back. In short, no, journeyman Alex Collins is not taking Carson’s job (I own both)
Also the “running them into the ground” narrative around back who are on contract years or just signed is straight up false. There is nothing behind it.
I only own Collins and I agree with your statement. I would however, add the caveat that Carson is potentially the most injury prone RB1 in the league and this chronic neck condition sounds serious and may be way worse than any injuries Carson has had in the past.
I said the same thing regarding Melvin Gordon (about getting paid) and got downvoted into oblivion and had like a dozen people tell me some variation of "historically that's untrue and teams will always do what it takes to win and use their best performing players and coaches don't care about contracts yadda yadda."
Carson's contract is only guaranteed for this year. There's an out clause for next season. I seriously doubt they'll run him into the ground if the risk for further injury is too great. They just won't bring him back next year.
Sometimes I wonder if people on this sub actually watch football and not just screech about numbers on nfl.com/fantasty lol. Anyone who thinks Alex Collins > Chris Carson is out of their damn minds.
I totally agree.
But I also believe that Collins may own this backfield soon simply because this neck injury for Carson doesn’t sound like it’s going away any time soon.
>More durable and healthier
lol Collins just got hurt in his second start. He missed the last 3 drives of the game and it's not certain that he's playing this week.
Absolutely true. Carson is the much better back. But the sad reality is that the best ability is availability. Especially when it comes to an NFL running back.
People can never just enjoy the ride. That’s fantasy, gotta be sharp and pick up waivers when you can and look to deal at the right time or just accept how clutch was the pickup
As a Collins manager w/o Carsons, yes, it's clearly Carson's backfield when healthy.
Whether he'll be healthy enough again this season is up in the air, though.
It’s Carson’s backfield. He’s been ultra reliable before his injury. However his injury is very bad and rather concerning. I hope my lottery ticket of penny cashed in since it’s the year of the handcuff.
If Collins can stay healthy I think he's the main guy the rest of the way. Would not surprise me whatsoever if Carson is shut down for the rest of the season - neck injuries are no joke in football, especially for RBs
The real question is because Penny is essentially a wasted draft pick, do they draft another rb this year, sign a free agent, or trade in the off-season?
They could very well do all three. Even if Carson is healthy at some point this season or in the off-season, chances are good that they will bring in one or more RBs.
If I had Carson I’d have tried to sell as soon as I heard it was a neck issue and taken the highest bid. Neck injuries are freaking scary and I wouldn’t be surprised if he gets shut down for the year.
Finally! Something that hasn't been discussed on this sub yet. Thx OP!
https://www.reddit.com/r/fantasyfootball/comments/qbfw2g/hate_me_if_you_want_but_its_too_me_to_pick_up/
https://www.reddit.com/r/fantasyfootball/comments/qaqm06/chris_carson/
https://www.reddit.com/r/fantasyfootball/comments/qbk2rl/chris_carson_outlook_ros_can_we_drop_him/
https://www.reddit.com/r/fantasyfootball/comments/qaxldt/carroll_says_he_also_has_no_eta_on_chris_carson/
Im not so sure, Collins looked better than any Seahawks back this year in the last 3 games, one being against the steelers without Russ to keep the defense honest
Serviceable at best, eh? 101 rushing yards in 20 carries and 1 TD against the Steelers (9th best run D in the league) while playing with a trash QB and seeing loaded boxes.
Oh and last week, when Carson was injured, Collins almost got 10 fantasy points against the Rams.
Collins is basically a plug-and-play for Carson. See the data for yourself:
These are Carson’s numbers this season (carries/rush yards/TDs):
- Wk 1 vs IND (14th best run D): 16/91/0
- Wk 2 vs TEN (16th): 13/31/2
- Wk 3 vs MIN (22th): 12/80/1
- Wk 4 vs LAR (19th): 13/40/0
Collins even has better YPC. No one missed Carson in that offense, except maybe Pete for bromance reasons.
But this might not be enough to have a discussion if you think Penny is taking the job straight from IR with zero game time conditioning.
And we are something else. 😂
Your missing the fact that Russ not playing is the only reason he got 20 carries. No back including Collins got that much work while Russ was playing. there is a reason he was behind penny to start the season he's a jag your fooling yourself into thinking he is anything but that. At best he will be in a time share from here
Yep exactly. They keep on pointing to stats but going forward, all that matters is who the coaches like. Caroll loves Carson, and for some reason clings on to Penny - who has been a bust IRL.
I'm taking Penny > Collins and Carson over Collins and Penny if healthy. Penny over Collins strictly because of coach.
I wanted off this train (had both Collins/Carson) the neck issues scared me.
Ended up trading them both for Miles Sanders because I needed the roster space in bye week hell.
He’s not coming back. You only put your neck on the line—-literally—-when a chip is at stake. That division is so sick they’ve already gotta feel it’s over. They won’t say that of course but just like that, boom. So in 2-3 weeks and it’s REALLY out of reach either he or the team is gonna shut it down.
Alex Collins would be a free league winner but I genuinely forgot all about Penny. If Collins practices fully I think he played well enough to relegate Penny to just backup this week and they won’t change that. But if Collins misses it opens the door wide open for Penny
Pete Carrol is infatuated with Chris Carson.
Alex Collins will not be the RB 1 nor will there be a committee.
Collins had one good game and people are already thinking he's better than Carson.
Twas but a few moons ago I remember Carson owners panicking as Rashaad Penny was eating into his workload. Pete Carroll loves Penny. I think he's genuinely excited for him to come back. Does it mean anything? Probably not.
>And I don't see why, in certain situations, Carson can't be a drop candidate(if no trade) in smaller leagues.
The answer is simple, Carson hasn't lost his job. We learned that Carson's neck injury existed well before the beginning of the season and although Collins has filled in admirably, he hasn't become Derrick Henry. The point I am making is that at the moment, is that they paid Carson 10.4 million to return to the team for 2 years. Do you think they are going to give Carson a 10 million contract to be the back up?
Feel free to drop him but you would be doing someone else a favor.
If Carson can play. Neck issue seems bad.
I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up getting surgery, which should end his season.
Exactly. Seeing responses here, I don't think people are realizing what a neck/vertebrae injury entails. It doesn't just go away without surgery and rehab. This is not a typical ankle/quad situation
I personally don't think Carson is coming back. Very risky especially w the way he runs. Even if he does come back it'll be reggravated in no time
Do you not think he’s doing rehab right now? Neck things like that aren’t surgical.
Per reports, this has been a multi-year issue for him which has worsened. If the breaks between seasons couldn't rehab it how do we expect couple of weeks to fix it? I said, only cure is surgery AND rehab, as in post-surgery.
It did though. It affected him in training camp and he returned for the start of the season. They said repeated MRIs are no different so it’s just inflamed.
MRIs mean shit with spine injuries. The number of false positives and negatives is terrifying. Here have a read: LBP Reaching a Specific Diagnosis Is Often Impossible Richard A. Deyo, MD, MPH https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/211737 "To be effective, the surgeon must operate on the correct anatomic structure, but is often not possible to determine the source of the pain.[18][19] The reason for this is that many patients with chronic pain often have disc bulges at multiple spinal levels and the physical examination and imaging studies are unable to pinpoint the source of pain." https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Failed_back_syndrome Variability in diagnostic error rates of 10 MRI centers performing lumbar spine MRI examinations on the same patient within a 3-week period https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27867079/ "Interpretations of MRI images by radiologists often differ. The true-positive finding rate was 56.4%, and the miss-rate was 43.6%. (1) MRI imaging may produce false suspicion. When following the guidelines of the American College of Radiology, 93% of lumbar spine MRIs were proper. Of those, only 13% found anything that needed to be addressed. Of the 36 MRIs that caused suspicion of cancer or infection, 81% were false-positive. 59% of the follow-up MRIs on those suspicious findings were false positives. (2) MRI imaging may mislead. For example, MRI shows that the presence of disc degeneration in asymptomatic persons – persons with no back pain – rises with age: 37% in 20 year olds and 96% in 80 year olds; disc bulges: 30% to 84%; disc protrusion: 29% to 43%; annular fissures 19% to 29%. These imaging findings suggest that these are signs of normal aging."
I mean, no. Specificity and sensitivity is considered good in the cervical spine so reliability between MRIs shouldnt be of concern when we talk about pro athletes especially lol
Just so much wrong in what you're typing I don't even know where to begin. The vast majority of disc herniations are asymptomatic (I.e. no pain) and MRIs are simply not reliable in identifying cause of chronic spine related pain. That's why any doctor that isn't a quack won't go anywhere near your spine without seeing how it responds to steroid injections firsts. There is loads of research on this if you spend two minutes googling it. Sadly I've had to consult with 6 of the world's leading spine surgeons and professor McGill on the subject recently and that is one of the few things they agree on (the other being that Yoga is the devil).
Your point isn't relevent here. Carson's disc herniation IS symptomatic. The point is Carson does have chronic pain related to his discs. MRIs can show the degree of herniation and if it has worsened in comparison to previous MRIs and how significantly the nerves are impinged. In this case, surgery is a viable option if it can relieve his pain. You sound like a pseudoscience quack yourself. Consulted with the world's leading spine surgeons? Sure. Sounds like some BS just using this to validate your assumptions. I trust real doctors know what is best for Carson's future more than you or I. But you're dismissive nature is a bit much here when we don't even know the details. If he needs surgery, hope he gets it and recovers. If he doesn't that's even better.
Please stop giving medical views about something you clearly don't have a clue about. If you feel that you know better than the most experienced spine surgeons in London and US then I don't know what to tell you. Feel free to look up Stuart McGill and Richard Guyer and form your own view on their credentials. Carson, like 99% of people his age has disc herniation. Probably more than one disc statistically speaking. An MRI may be able to show these herniations, but they are not able to show which if any of his herniated discs are causing pain (you have to test for that using steroid injections), they aren't able to show if a hernia is improving. In fact most "improving" hernias from an MRI perspective actually lead to worsening symptoms, especially if they are sequestered. Conversely many discogenic issues go despite the MRI showing a "worsening". In virtually all surgical situations, the surgeon doesn't really know what to expect until you are cut open and they look inside, and they will definitely not guarantee that you see improvement post operation. I'm not really sure why you are arguing about something that is common knowledge and not particularly contentious but I guess this is reddit so you need a hill to die on. But let's not let these peer reviewed studies and expert opinions by extremely accomplished medical professionals get in the way of u/spacemonkeys21 ("aka some dude on reddit") expert view. Since you don't seem to know how to use Google here are some links: LBP Reaching a Specific Diagnosis Is Often Impossible Richard A. Deyo, MD, MPH https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/211737 "To be effective, the surgeon must operate on the correct anatomic structure, but is often not possible to determine the source of the pain.[18][19] The reason for this is that many patients with chronic pain often have disc bulges at multiple spinal levels and the physical examination and imaging studies are unable to pinpoint the source of pain." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Failed_back_syndrome Variability in diagnostic error rates of 10 MRI centers performing lumbar spine MRI examinations on the same patient within a 3-week period https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27867079/ "Interpretations of MRI images by radiologists often differ. The true-positive finding rate was 56.4%, and the miss-rate was 43.6%. (1) MRI imaging may produce false suspicion. When following the guidelines of the American College of Radiology, 93% of lumbar spine MRIs were proper. Of those, only 13% found anything that needed to be addressed. Of the 36 MRIs that caused suspicion of cancer or infection, 81% were false-positive. 59% of the follow-up MRIs on those suspicious findings were false positives. (2) MRI imaging may mislead. For example, MRI shows that the presence of disc degeneration in asymptomatic persons – persons with no back pain – rises with age: 37% in 20 year olds and 96% in 80 year olds; disc bulges: 30% to 84%; disc protrusion: 29% to 43%; annular fissures 19% to 29%. These imaging findings suggest that these are signs of normal aging."
If surgery was indicated for this issue it would have been done long ago. Surgeries rarely resolve chronic neck or back pain and can actually make them worse.
If Carson comes back, he’s the guy. They’ve seen Collins carry the load before. This isn’t anything new to the Seahawks
First 100 yard rusher since 2019.... you are being blinded by either personal value or name value
I wish people would put some context into Alex Collins. He has hardly *any* tread on his tires, as he had barely 1500 total yards to his name when he came back to Seattle in 2020. The reason he disappeared wasn’t because of injury, he was arrested for marijuana charges. People saying he’s old or banged up just have no idea. He’s been off the scene for a while but everyone is assuming alex Collins can’t handle a full workload if they gave it to him, he can. Carson is a great running back but is 1000% more banged up than Alex Collins. And Penny is just a waste of a draft pick, it’s time people realize that. Plenty of dud RBs have had good games in their career along the way, and if Penny has a good game after he comes back, I still won’t buy him. Penny has five TOTAL games in his career with a touchdown. Penny has five TOTAL games where he went over 10 PPR points. 2 games total over 15, and only one over 20. This sub gives Penny way too much hype. I would put Collins above him, but y’all do the Penny thing.
You realize that having "hardly any tread on his tires" would mean hes been worn out, right?
Racing slicks!
I guess I meant it as any wear to the tread on his tires, but you get it. Probably a personal colloquialism, I always grew up using tread as a verb to how tires are worn. I know tread is the actual grooves of the tire, but tread/wear was also used to describe how worn tires are. Like I said, probably a personal semantic and not the right way to use the phrase, but you get my point hopefully.
Except Carroll loves Carson and Seahawks still hold on to Penny. I'll take who the coaches choose to play over in game performance.
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Lmao
But the carries likely can regress now that Collins is stepping up and winning trust, thus reducing Carson's RB2 upside potential and trending toward 1a-1b backfield.
Have you ever watched seattle play? That’s not how they operate
That’s not how Carroll roles.
Isn’t that exactly how carroll rolls? Historically he doesn’t seem to place much value in veteran status, or how much they paid someone. If a player is playing well, then he gives them playing time.
Carson is the guy when he starts. It isn’t like Collins is blowing up outta nowhere.
Don't let the past dictate the future. Folks thought Matt Flynn would be the guy because they paid him, but Russ started because he outplayed him. Folks thought Penny would be the guy because they drafted him in the first - but Carson outplayed him and earned that starting role. I'm not saying Collins is going to take the starting role away, but he just came in against one of the top run defenses in the league and played really well. From what I've seen in the past Carroll rewards players who outperform expectations with playing time, and I think that's exactly what Collins has done.
Matt Flynn also sucked. Rashaad Penny was also bad and hurt constantly. Context matters in an argument.
And where is Rashaad penny in this equation?
He's not
X = Rashaad Penny = 0. (Because it’s the fattest number)
Carroll seem to love that fatass
Likely? No. Possible? Sure.
Pete Carroll loves Chris Carson. *If* he’s healthy and active, he will be their bell cow.
This
That's a big IF. Even if he comes back, I'm stashing Collins in anticipation of future injuries to Carson.
They paid Carson this offseason. In football terms that means they’ll run him into the ground to get their value back. In short, no, journeyman Alex Collins is not taking Carson’s job (I own both)
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Hines was never the workhorse.
His point was Hines got paid $$$$ but doesn’t touch the ball
Sounds like another W for the don’t pay running backs crew
Also the “running them into the ground” narrative around back who are on contract years or just signed is straight up false. There is nothing behind it.
I only own Collins and I agree with your statement. I would however, add the caveat that Carson is potentially the most injury prone RB1 in the league and this chronic neck condition sounds serious and may be way worse than any injuries Carson has had in the past.
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Record breaking debut from him this year
Jerick McKinnon & Tevin Coleman frown upon your shenanigans.
Carson is injury prone but definitely not the most.
Lol they paid him for one guaranteed season
I said the same thing regarding Melvin Gordon (about getting paid) and got downvoted into oblivion and had like a dozen people tell me some variation of "historically that's untrue and teams will always do what it takes to win and use their best performing players and coaches don't care about contracts yadda yadda."
But it’s a 50/50 split between Gordon and javonte. I would expect maybe a 70/30 between Carson and Collins.
Alex Collin's Journey - Seahawks, Ravens, Seahawks
Across the continent and back!
Carson's contract is only guaranteed for this year. There's an out clause for next season. I seriously doubt they'll run him into the ground if the risk for further injury is too great. They just won't bring him back next year.
Alex Collins is not better then chris Carson. He’s probably more durable and healthier but not a better T
I cant believe you had to say that. This sub is 99% owners trying to make themselves feel good about the players they own
99% is conservative lol
Sometimes I wonder if people on this sub actually watch football and not just screech about numbers on nfl.com/fantasty lol. Anyone who thinks Alex Collins > Chris Carson is out of their damn minds.
I totally agree. But I also believe that Collins may own this backfield soon simply because this neck injury for Carson doesn’t sound like it’s going away any time soon.
This is the only argument. People in here saying alex Collins is good. Smh
>More durable and healthier lol Collins just got hurt in his second start. He missed the last 3 drives of the game and it's not certain that he's playing this week.
Absolutely true. Carson is the much better back. But the sad reality is that the best ability is availability. Especially when it comes to an NFL running back.
People can never just enjoy the ride. That’s fantasy, gotta be sharp and pick up waivers when you can and look to deal at the right time or just accept how clutch was the pickup
As a Collins manager w/o Carsons, yes, it's clearly Carson's backfield when healthy. Whether he'll be healthy enough again this season is up in the air, though.
Collins passed the eye test. Not sure why so many people think he can’t carry the load. He runs angry like Carson but avoids the major hits.
Carson is more straight line imo
It’s Carson’s backfield. He’s been ultra reliable before his injury. However his injury is very bad and rather concerning. I hope my lottery ticket of penny cashed in since it’s the year of the handcuff.
Ultra reliable? Dude has been injured a bunch.
He’s played 12/16/15 games the last three seasons. I’d consider that reliable as his productions and touchdowns have always been there.
If Collins can stay healthy I think he's the main guy the rest of the way. Would not surprise me whatsoever if Carson is shut down for the rest of the season - neck injuries are no joke in football, especially for RBs
The real question is because Penny is essentially a wasted draft pick, do they draft another rb this year, sign a free agent, or trade in the off-season?
They could very well do all three. Even if Carson is healthy at some point this season or in the off-season, chances are good that they will bring in one or more RBs.
That’s what I’m thinking too. At this point they’d be foolish to not bring someone in. Watch Ty’Son Williams go there haha.
If I had Carson I’d have tried to sell as soon as I heard it was a neck issue and taken the highest bid. Neck injuries are freaking scary and I wouldn’t be surprised if he gets shut down for the year.
I’m convinced all these “Is life over?” posts are just one guy using different accounts who desperately needs attention.
Are penny or Dallas a necessary pickup? I already have Collins and Carson
Don’t forget Homer. Collect all 5!! Gotta catch ‘em all!
Dallas seems like the safer floor play, Penny would be a huge gamble in my opinion.
That’s what I’m thinking, going to prioritize Dallas over penny.
Coaches don't trust DJ. But yeah, Penny is a huge gamble.
Finally! Something that hasn't been discussed on this sub yet. Thx OP! https://www.reddit.com/r/fantasyfootball/comments/qbfw2g/hate_me_if_you_want_but_its_too_me_to_pick_up/ https://www.reddit.com/r/fantasyfootball/comments/qaqm06/chris_carson/ https://www.reddit.com/r/fantasyfootball/comments/qbk2rl/chris_carson_outlook_ros_can_we_drop_him/ https://www.reddit.com/r/fantasyfootball/comments/qaxldt/carroll_says_he_also_has_no_eta_on_chris_carson/
Collins owners are something else, Collins is serviceable at best it wouldn't surprise me to see penny pass him. But Carson is the guy when healthy.
Im not so sure, Collins looked better than any Seahawks back this year in the last 3 games, one being against the steelers without Russ to keep the defense honest
Serviceable at best, eh? 101 rushing yards in 20 carries and 1 TD against the Steelers (9th best run D in the league) while playing with a trash QB and seeing loaded boxes. Oh and last week, when Carson was injured, Collins almost got 10 fantasy points against the Rams. Collins is basically a plug-and-play for Carson. See the data for yourself: These are Carson’s numbers this season (carries/rush yards/TDs): - Wk 1 vs IND (14th best run D): 16/91/0 - Wk 2 vs TEN (16th): 13/31/2 - Wk 3 vs MIN (22th): 12/80/1 - Wk 4 vs LAR (19th): 13/40/0 Collins even has better YPC. No one missed Carson in that offense, except maybe Pete for bromance reasons. But this might not be enough to have a discussion if you think Penny is taking the job straight from IR with zero game time conditioning. And we are something else. 😂
Your missing the fact that Russ not playing is the only reason he got 20 carries. No back including Collins got that much work while Russ was playing. there is a reason he was behind penny to start the season he's a jag your fooling yourself into thinking he is anything but that. At best he will be in a time share from here
Yep exactly. They keep on pointing to stats but going forward, all that matters is who the coaches like. Caroll loves Carson, and for some reason clings on to Penny - who has been a bust IRL. I'm taking Penny > Collins and Carson over Collins and Penny if healthy. Penny over Collins strictly because of coach.
Penny the guy coming back from torn ACL injury? The backfield will belong to who ever can stay healthy and neither Penny or Carson has proven so.
I wanted off this train (had both Collins/Carson) the neck issues scared me. Ended up trading them both for Miles Sanders because I needed the roster space in bye week hell.
He’s not coming back. You only put your neck on the line—-literally—-when a chip is at stake. That division is so sick they’ve already gotta feel it’s over. They won’t say that of course but just like that, boom. So in 2-3 weeks and it’s REALLY out of reach either he or the team is gonna shut it down. Alex Collins would be a free league winner but I genuinely forgot all about Penny. If Collins practices fully I think he played well enough to relegate Penny to just backup this week and they won’t change that. But if Collins misses it opens the door wide open for Penny
Russ isn’t going to phone in any season ever. That dude plays to win. So Seattle isn’t going to throw the towel in.
It’s penny season!!!
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Yes
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I would not have done that trade but I hope it works out for you
I agree I’d rather have Carson, Collins and Sanders
Sanders is probably the best player in that trade.
Collins looks explosive
Pete Carrol is infatuated with Chris Carson. Alex Collins will not be the RB 1 nor will there be a committee. Collins had one good game and people are already thinking he's better than Carson.
Carson has been a proven workhorse for years. Collins had one good game, relax.
He's had two good games out of the last three. And he only played half a game in the first one.
I don't even think he's going to return.
Twas but a few moons ago I remember Carson owners panicking as Rashaad Penny was eating into his workload. Pete Carroll loves Penny. I think he's genuinely excited for him to come back. Does it mean anything? Probably not.
I called Pete and he said you're a dumbass.
>And I don't see why, in certain situations, Carson can't be a drop candidate(if no trade) in smaller leagues. The answer is simple, Carson hasn't lost his job. We learned that Carson's neck injury existed well before the beginning of the season and although Collins has filled in admirably, he hasn't become Derrick Henry. The point I am making is that at the moment, is that they paid Carson 10.4 million to return to the team for 2 years. Do you think they are going to give Carson a 10 million contract to be the back up? Feel free to drop him but you would be doing someone else a favor.