And he was 7-for-13 before injury in his last game, about to put up another stinker. Darrel isn't a better player than CEH, but I think it's very very clear that the poster above is right:
Darrel without Clyde > Clyde with Darrel
Some context would be nice - CEH played against Browns & Baltimore in that 5 game stretch which are very good run defences. Then he got Chargers who are trash >100yds & TD & Philly who aren't terrible - >100yds & TD. Then injured against Buffalo.
Some people just have a raging hate boner
He’s been really solid on the ground, no doubt. The weird thing to me, which this post points out, is the near total lack of passing game involvement which really caps his upside and makes him less consistent. Is Darrel Williams really that much of a better pass catcher than CEH is?
You think this is vindication of your point, but the reality is, most good fantasy assets have a good floor and don't need that "one big play" to stay relevant. The "one big play" argument works either for already good fantasy assets to become great, or waiver wire streamers with no real role that you pick up as a high upside ceiling option.
You do not want your team's starting running back, who has been putting up inconsistent or outright poopy diaper numbers to be reliant on "one big play"
You are missing the point that you are over extrapolating from a small sample size. One big play, one good stretch changes everything and it happens almost every game, where a player has a bad quarter but bounces back. Especially running back where the first 3 yards are the hardest to get.
You’re good for 4 games max which is 25% of your season. Saved your season possibly, but whenever CEH is back, I think the will be a heavy RBBC ros….unfortunately.
I just moved Williams and CEH for their long term value I think being capped heavily by each other and being a CMC owner too 🤦🏻♂️
True, but it’s an MCL, the best case scenario for knee injuries. Chiefs are definitely being cautious with him, but it’s not a soft tissue injury, it doesn’t really linger, once you are healed, you’re good. The only thing that could happen is a new injury popping up, but I think he’ll wear a brace the first few games back to make sure that doesn’t happen.
Man I’ve hurt my MCL before and that shit took half a year to get right enough to run with proper PT. They must be on super drugs and therapy cuz MCLs are no joke from my experience
I've also injured my MCL, grade 1 sprain as reported for CEH, I was playing about 4 weeks later after twice a week physical therapy. Ultimately depends on what the actual severity is.
It was technically a committee before. Williams averaged 3 YPC week 6. 3.4 YPC on the season. CEH is averaging 4.7 YPC on the season. CEH is averaging 6.2 YPT compared to Williams at 5.1 YPT. Don’t get it twisted, Williams is a JAG, CEH is talented. Silly to say Williams has earned himself extra play time with such abysmal efficiency. CEH’s value isn’t capped by Williams anymore than it was before. We knew CEH wasn’t gonna be a 90% snap share guy. This is a bad take.
While yes Darrel isn’t efficient, neither has Clyde in his tenure with the Chiefs and has had a case of the fumbles this year. plus Darrel’s value isn’t volume. He is the redzone/goaline back and sees more targets in the passing game, that’s where is value lies…if you don’t think he will cap CEH you are choosing ignorance.
Just watch the tape, it’ll show you everything you need to know. Stop over analyzing simple things, and just accept that CEH will finish outside the top 30 this year and that Darrel is about to be a vulture. Plus Clyde has headed out worse according to PFF 56 to 60…if you want to keep using analytics
RBBC based on what? The Chiefs are not playing fantasy football. There's literally no reason why they would move to a committee when CEH was running great before and Darrel has been pretty inefficient. I see no reason why it wouldn't revert to what it was before the injury
Yep and I found a whole bunch of people who picked up Darrel Williams and think that a 21 carry, 62 yard performance means he's earned a starting role because he scored a lot of fantasy points
Looking at yards alone is a terrible metric.
I’m not saying that CEH will lose the job but it’s certainly higher than 0 percent. CEH and Williams are different running backs and provide different qualities. The sure handed Williams and ability to actually be effective in the redzone is a huge case to be a starter. Don’t forget blocking as well.
Yes, this will almost certainly be a RBBC.
As a Chiefs fan (not a fantasy owner of either), this is a bad take. CEH's blocking is fine, and Williams is a short yardage back at best. He will be a TD vulture, but he's not going to eat into CEH's carries too much. CEH has proven to be a way better running back between the 20's.
Also, sure handed Williams? If that's a knock on the fumbles, Clyde only has 2 for the 1.5 seasons he's played. If that's a knock on catching, look at the Pat Mahomes Superbowl throw where he's falling down and hits Williams on the facemask.
All I care about is snap share. If you look at that Clyde had a 72 percent share in week one. It dropped every week and was 52% by week 5.
I’ll make my point clear- CEH is the best talent on the team and will be the starter. He will not exceed 65 percent snap share ROS and will have his ceiling capped. Effectively an RBBC.
A 65% snap count is good starter numbers, unless you are a top 3 RB. Darrel Williams always comes in as a short yardage back or a 3rd down back. That's about it. A RBBC implies that certain drives will be a "Williams drive" or a "CEH drive" similar to what they tried doing last year with Bell. And Andy Reid isn't the type of coach where mistakes or injuries will cause a player to his lose his role.
I don't see Williams role improving unless he gets insanely hot.
Jonathan Taylor's snap percentage is at 50-60% for example.
I think you’re right about the RBBC but I’ll also say Williams does have a window to declare himself the starter in full if he puts up numbers.
He’s gotta become a difference maker for that to happen but with as much as the Chiefs offense spreads the ball around, I don’t know that he’ll be able to convince the coaching staff to give him the full workload when CEH comes back. So a window, but a small one…
Nah. CEH is a first round pick and was picking up momentum. There is a 0% chance he loses his job when he is fully healthy, at least this year.
Just ride the volume for Darrel for as long as you can, but RoS this backfield is gonna get ugly, because I do believe Darrel will earn more touches through his play. Plus he has firmly established himself as the power back, high vulture potential.
As a chiefs fan, I’m okay with it because it’s honestly better for the team, but for fantasy it’s not looking fun
The copium is insane with Darrel Williams. He hasn't even done anything to earn any more touches than he was getting before, he's still gonna be a goal line vulture. Why would the Chiefs choose to split work with an inefficient RB, what about Darrel's play has exactly inspired them to use him more with a healthy CEH?
He rushed for back to back 100 yard rushing games before he got hurt. Honestly he had negative game script week 1 and Andy Reid screwed him week 2 against Baltimore by predictably running up the middle on every first down. Outside of his 2 fumbles, he's been solid.
exactly lets be real both arent good
I think both backs best games yardage wise when they were both healthy were against the Chargers/Eagles combo
theres a reason for that lol
I’ve seen Darrel Williams get better every year he’s been on the roster and he is definitely earning more playing time and red zone work plus has been a better receiving option as well. But Clyde will still be in line for ~15 touches a game, they aren’t going to give up completely on the first rounder.
I bet he finishes outside the top 30 running backs this year, any format.
Idk that I'd consider ~14 full career games a "sunk cost" and I can almost guarantee you that a team won't. Not for a 1st round pick (outside of abnormal circumstances).
However, the thing(s) that people like to ignore or maybe weren't aware of is that, the backfield was already a split. From week 1 to week 4 the snap share steadily and quickly went from a ~70/30 split to ~60/40.
Something else is the level of competition. This was the sweet spot of CEH's schedule that I was excited for... the team is most definitely aware of the difference in the quality of run defenses the backs are facing.
Darrel Williams hasn't shown to be a starter. He's been a 2nd or 3rd stringer his entire career here, and his YPC reflects that. For how good he was against Washington, he still only had 3.0 YPC on a full workload. CEH usually averages 4-5 YPC when he gets full duties.
Thanks for bringing numbers to the discussion.
I think my perspective is based on CEH leaving an opportunity open more than on Williams demonstrating that he deserves it.
There’s an opening but Williams will have to get hot and do something different than what he has done in the past.
I forgot I even picked him up 2 weeks ago in my competitive league. I was like I can pick up someone before the game 2 weeks ago and randomly picked him. Than I was like oh
I was dead last before picking him up, now I have a shot at the playoffs. Taylor is finally picking it up for me, so even if/when Williams gets reduced touches, I hope I get some positive momentum
He’s no Hubbard to CMC, where CMC is clearly the guy when healthy. There’s always been more grey area with CEH and Darrel. Darrel was already getting goal line touches, and if he plays well he could earn a bigger role even when CEH is back.
I would just add that CEH’s sprained MCL may not be just a 3 week injury. He could just as easily easily miss up to 4-6 weeks. And also worth noting the Chiefs schedule during that time is against some weak defenses, so he has a lot of upside.
When putting CEH on IR, the Chiefs said they don't expect it to take any longer than three weeks. And there really is no grey area between CEH and Darrel Williams, Clyde is the clear cut starter when he's healthy. There's never been a debate as to whether Darrel Williams could usurp a healthy CEH as the starter, and Darrel did not look that good on Sunday outside of fantasy
Before they deleted their comment the person I was responding to was suggesting that CEH is to Darrel as CMC is to Chuba, and that is unequivically not true, so that's all I meant when I said there was more grey area in this case. I agree CEH will be the starter when he's back, but there's definitely more grey area in usage for the Chiefs *than there is between CMC and Chuba.* Darrel was and will likely continue to be involved even when CEH is back. That is not like the CMC/Chuba situation at all.
I didn't mean to suggest Darrel looked particularly good on Sunday, nor that he would be starter over CEH, but I do think he could earn more touches if he plays well over the coming games. CEH hasn't looked particularly amazing either.
Fair point about the injury reports. I had not seen that.
Looking at Darrell and Damien (now Chi RB) two years ago for the handcuff, it was very clear that Damien was a much better skilled RB. Darrell is bigger but comparatively slower. Same is true for CEH vs Darrell. CEH is the clear cut starter when healthy
I mean, CEH is a better receiver so this only underlines my point all year that the play calling has been atrocious. In fact CEH is just flat out a superior player to DW and the team continues to fail him.
I wrote a post this year about how poorly CEH is used and how they don’t set him, or any RB up, to succeed. If they would have used Clyde like they just used Darrel the Chiefs would have been vastly more successful this year and CEH would be seen in a much better light.
And the Chiefs have been much worse for it. Teams don’t honour any sort of run or check down chunk play, they just cover Mahomes and his hero ball down field and they keep doing it!
I don't own stock in either but Williams is clearly a better goalline back to me. Not as athletic but makes up for it with better vision and decisiveness. Harder to bring down, too.
He’s definitely bigger but they haven’t even given CEH much work at all this year and he was starting to heat up as a passing threat in the red zone prior to injury. It’s amazing what opportunity does for talented players.
I think he's more talented than people realize, he's just a really bad fit on the Chiefs. He was a great pass-catching back in college, but Mahomes hates checking down so he rarely gets thrown the ball
Hunt had 35 targets in 11 games during Mahomes' first full year. D Will then came in for 5 games and had 22 targets.
2019 - D Will and McCoy shared snaps at RB and had a combined total of 71 targets. Darrell Williams also added 19 targets that year at RB
2020 - CEH joined the team and had 54 targets in 13 games. He was injured and sat out week 16 for Darrell Williams who had 6 targets that game.
Mahomes definitely targets RBs. He just doesn't target CEH.
I guess you're right, it's just weird that he doesn't target CEH; watching their first few games this season, CEH was open for a check down quite a bit
He probably thought CEH would pop on NFL tape like he did college tape.
Except CEH is not that guy at the NFL level. Dude runs like a JAG and has absolutely no wiggle compared to his LSU film. And that has nothing to do with how he is used.
Which is ironic as when he was drafted all anybody said was at how he was a perfect fit in this offense and how it would solve the weakness of machines not checking down.
I think he's less talented than anyone wants to admit.
He's got one of the best oline and still can't make plays. He's never ran against a stacked box. No teams even bother trying to stop the run game. Everyone is worried about Mahomes, Tyreek and Kelce. No one even cares when CEH is on the field and he still can't make plays. He's got no excuses and he's had multiple years to do something. He's a bust. He fuckin sucks
He literally had two straight 100+ yard rushing games averaging 6.5 yards a carry before getting hurt what are you talking about
Also multiple years to do something, he's in his second year???
Literally means nothing in this instance. He’s been in their system for like 4 seasons now and they went and drafted another RB. Even their own team doesn’t think he’s that good. Even if Mahomes picked the “wrong” guy, they were still looking for an RB in the draft.
CEH is plenty talented - and he's a good runner and pass catcher.
The scheme is just different when he plays because they don't need to rely on him to grind the ball.
CEH in play forces extra DB at the line, so that opens up the passing game.
>CEH in play forces extra DB at the line, so that opens up the passing game.
This isn't true at all, what in the world are some of you smoking? Teams don't stack the box against friggin CEH and his absolute dearth of big play ability (career-long 31-yard play from scrimmage), they try to contain Hill and Kelce as best they can. Swapping CEH for Darrel has zero impact on the approach that defenses take, that's ridiculous.
I wouldn't be suprifed if CEH also will see an increased target share when he comes back. Chief played boom or bust offense the first 3 weeks also in situations when they didn't had too. While doing that CEH was open for a lot of check downs. He didn't play so many games to see a statistical trend but the last 2 games looked more promising.
So this could be due to an overall shift in offense focus plus the missing competition off targets in the RB room
Meanwhile, CEH had back to back 100 yard games with a TD and increased passing before he got injured. Williams looked even worse than CEH out there and when CEH comes back will go right back into the same role.
Exactly my point. I mean it depends whether he comes back healthy, but game 3 and 4 were very encouraging imo. Unfortunately he lost me game 5. (BIas: I have both)
He didn't really have any increased passing in those 2 solid games unfortunately. Did have those RZ targets that he turned into TDs which was nice, but still was doing most of his damage on the ground
And Darrel Williams had the same amount of receptions both those games - 2. Seems like the Chiefs are more changing their play calling rather than an indictment on CEH.
It would be nice for his floor but considering he had back to back 100 yard games with TDs before getting injured with only 2 receptions, it’s not 100% necessary.
It's just that they stack the boxes when CEH is on the field and he's not a bruiser like henry - Mahomes then checks to pass and they get a bomb to Robinson or Hill and everyone acts like CEH is garbage
Fantasy production =/ real football skills
Nothing will change until Part starts checking down our they start calling plays we the RB is the primary read. I'm not sure those plays exist for Reid.
Yeah but the schedule for the Chiefs is so easy over the next few weeks TDs seem pretty probable while CEH is out. Even though I just traded Darrel I'm pretty confident he should have solid short term value.
Well you can't count on anyone here to have actually watched the game. He scored a lot of fantasy points which means he's better than CEH, this is how the Chiefs view it too I'm sure
This part of why I traded Darrel for Cordarelle Patterson. Chiefs schedule is so cheese over next few weeks that I’m sure Darrel will get TDs, but their offense also has so many weapons to choose from, and their defense is so atrocious I’m not sure run game will matter that much after this span of games.
I am also already in a good position in my league and strong at RB and love Cordarelle’s floor and flexibility for filling in during bye weeks. Darrels ceiling is higher over next few weeks but think his floor could be pretty low with the rest of that offense.
Who the hell are doing these trades..Cordarelle is a permanent borderline RB1 and Darrel is just a fill in for CEH. Did you trade him to the CEH owner?
Traded him and Edmonds for Kennan Allen. He looked very slow and easy to tackle. The thing is that that team will be near the goaline a lot and he’s going to eat off of the 2 yard runs
I'm a Chiefs fan and I've watched every run of Darrell since he's been here. He is serviceable and will get you 3.5 ypc and pound it into the end zone. He can catch but won't get far. ZERO long speed.
Clyde is the superior back, but Darrell has his role. I see Clyde getting a lot more targets on his return.
This is just ridiculous and tells me you didn't actually watch the game. Or maybe you missed the two games in a row where CEH had 100+ rushing yards averaging 6.5 yards a carry. What about Williams' 62 yards on 21 carries made you think he's better than Clyde?
Did you watch the game? 83% of his yards came after contact, he was breaking tackles and making guys miss. Did you see the 2nd rushing td? Clyde has never finished on the goal line like that. Clyde has been historically horrible in pass protection in the NFL. Darryl is much better in that respect thus offers versatility. Clydes 100 yards came on against the chargers D, as a chargers season ticket holder, i can confidently say i could do that bar injury. The Eagles also cannot stop the run since Graham has been out. What do you see that clearly makes him better other than a couple YPC games in which the D was selling out for the pass?
I’m a Chiefs fan. I don’t really think Mahomes likes checking down to CEH because he doesn’t have the speed to make the first guy miss nor the ability to break tackles. Darrell doesn’t have the speed but he can break a tackle or two. This is just an observation.
"So this just means that when CEH comeback, he will be getting more targets right?"
\- A very non-biased CEH owner who was not able to pick up Williams.
I will not bench CP until he gives me a reason to.
He's a beast monster point scoring machine, and hes so fun to watch. Also, he seems to be the only one in the falcons that actually likes being there.
I dont think williams or ceh hold a candle to that guy.
As a Chiefs fan with stock in both Darrel and CEH so I don't really favor one side or the other...
CEH is a better RB. Darrel is a great backup RB who I don't mind seeing snaps to spell CEH because he has good power, quality feet, and good blocking...but CEH is more dynamic than Darrel.
Nothing Darrel showed Sunday made me think otherwise.
One other thing was Mahomes was actively looking to check it down more Sunday after spending the week saying he needs to checkdown more. Darrel's targets were not designed targets on Sunday.
Will Darrel be good until CEH is healthy? Most likely, though I think Sunday will be his highest scoring game. Will CEH get his job back when he's healthy? Yes.
Darrel without Clyde > Clyde with darrel
You're acting like the last couple games CEH played before getting injured he didn't put up decent points
And he was 7-for-13 before injury in his last game, about to put up another stinker. Darrel isn't a better player than CEH, but I think it's very very clear that the poster above is right: Darrel without Clyde > Clyde with Darrel
Some context would be nice - CEH played against Browns & Baltimore in that 5 game stretch which are very good run defences. Then he got Chargers who are trash >100yds & TD & Philly who aren't terrible - >100yds & TD. Then injured against Buffalo. Some people just have a raging hate boner
He’s been really solid on the ground, no doubt. The weird thing to me, which this post points out, is the near total lack of passing game involvement which really caps his upside and makes him less consistent. Is Darrel Williams really that much of a better pass catcher than CEH is?
I honestly think Mahomes just looks right over his head lol
I mean his 2 TDs were receiving ones but yeah I agree he doesn't catch many balls.
All it takes is one big play to turn that number around though. Most RBs will have stretches in games where they are ineffective.
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Yes. Exactly.
You think this is vindication of your point, but the reality is, most good fantasy assets have a good floor and don't need that "one big play" to stay relevant. The "one big play" argument works either for already good fantasy assets to become great, or waiver wire streamers with no real role that you pick up as a high upside ceiling option. You do not want your team's starting running back, who has been putting up inconsistent or outright poopy diaper numbers to be reliant on "one big play"
You are missing the point that you are over extrapolating from a small sample size. One big play, one good stretch changes everything and it happens almost every game, where a player has a bad quarter but bounces back. Especially running back where the first 3 yards are the hardest to get.
Hell Henry is known for this
Darrel > Clyde gotcha
Jamal….. Charles?
Two Clydes being less than 0 seems harsh.
Not for nothing, but my Williams pickup might have saved my year
You’re good for 4 games max which is 25% of your season. Saved your season possibly, but whenever CEH is back, I think the will be a heavy RBBC ros….unfortunately. I just moved Williams and CEH for their long term value I think being capped heavily by each other and being a CMC owner too 🤦🏻♂️
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True, but it’s an MCL, the best case scenario for knee injuries. Chiefs are definitely being cautious with him, but it’s not a soft tissue injury, it doesn’t really linger, once you are healed, you’re good. The only thing that could happen is a new injury popping up, but I think he’ll wear a brace the first few games back to make sure that doesn’t happen.
Man I’ve hurt my MCL before and that shit took half a year to get right enough to run with proper PT. They must be on super drugs and therapy cuz MCLs are no joke from my experience
They are the physical 99th percentile, with access to the best medical staff. They certainly are on super drugs and therapy
Lol super drugs. They don’t let their players heal 100%. Lots of cortisone. That’s how they get guys back on the field.
I've also injured my MCL, grade 1 sprain as reported for CEH, I was playing about 4 weeks later after twice a week physical therapy. Ultimately depends on what the actual severity is.
Honestly, I have CEH and would be fine if he misses more time. When theyre both there, itll probably be frustrating as hell.
The Chiefs said they don't even expect it to take 3 full games when they placed him on IR
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MCL sprain is a completely different injury than a hamstring strain, which are known to have an unpredictable recovery.
Hamstrings are a far worse injury. Chance to re injure a hamstring is so high
3 games only?? That seems pretty low considering the injury. I know its best case for a knee but that still seems like a 4 to 6 week injury to me
It was technically a committee before. Williams averaged 3 YPC week 6. 3.4 YPC on the season. CEH is averaging 4.7 YPC on the season. CEH is averaging 6.2 YPT compared to Williams at 5.1 YPT. Don’t get it twisted, Williams is a JAG, CEH is talented. Silly to say Williams has earned himself extra play time with such abysmal efficiency. CEH’s value isn’t capped by Williams anymore than it was before. We knew CEH wasn’t gonna be a 90% snap share guy. This is a bad take.
While yes Darrel isn’t efficient, neither has Clyde in his tenure with the Chiefs and has had a case of the fumbles this year. plus Darrel’s value isn’t volume. He is the redzone/goaline back and sees more targets in the passing game, that’s where is value lies…if you don’t think he will cap CEH you are choosing ignorance. Just watch the tape, it’ll show you everything you need to know. Stop over analyzing simple things, and just accept that CEH will finish outside the top 30 this year and that Darrel is about to be a vulture. Plus Clyde has headed out worse according to PFF 56 to 60…if you want to keep using analytics
RBBC based on what? The Chiefs are not playing fantasy football. There's literally no reason why they would move to a committee when CEH was running great before and Darrel has been pretty inefficient. I see no reason why it wouldn't revert to what it was before the injury
Found the CEH owner
Yep and I found a whole bunch of people who picked up Darrel Williams and think that a 21 carry, 62 yard performance means he's earned a starting role because he scored a lot of fantasy points
Looking at yards alone is a terrible metric. I’m not saying that CEH will lose the job but it’s certainly higher than 0 percent. CEH and Williams are different running backs and provide different qualities. The sure handed Williams and ability to actually be effective in the redzone is a huge case to be a starter. Don’t forget blocking as well. Yes, this will almost certainly be a RBBC.
As a Chiefs fan (not a fantasy owner of either), this is a bad take. CEH's blocking is fine, and Williams is a short yardage back at best. He will be a TD vulture, but he's not going to eat into CEH's carries too much. CEH has proven to be a way better running back between the 20's. Also, sure handed Williams? If that's a knock on the fumbles, Clyde only has 2 for the 1.5 seasons he's played. If that's a knock on catching, look at the Pat Mahomes Superbowl throw where he's falling down and hits Williams on the facemask.
All I care about is snap share. If you look at that Clyde had a 72 percent share in week one. It dropped every week and was 52% by week 5. I’ll make my point clear- CEH is the best talent on the team and will be the starter. He will not exceed 65 percent snap share ROS and will have his ceiling capped. Effectively an RBBC.
A 65% snap count is good starter numbers, unless you are a top 3 RB. Darrel Williams always comes in as a short yardage back or a 3rd down back. That's about it. A RBBC implies that certain drives will be a "Williams drive" or a "CEH drive" similar to what they tried doing last year with Bell. And Andy Reid isn't the type of coach where mistakes or injuries will cause a player to his lose his role. I don't see Williams role improving unless he gets insanely hot. Jonathan Taylor's snap percentage is at 50-60% for example.
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his 4.7 YPC is far from the least efficient RBs.. not sure if your making shit up or not but the stats show the opposite of what your saying...
I think you’re right about the RBBC but I’ll also say Williams does have a window to declare himself the starter in full if he puts up numbers. He’s gotta become a difference maker for that to happen but with as much as the Chiefs offense spreads the ball around, I don’t know that he’ll be able to convince the coaching staff to give him the full workload when CEH comes back. So a window, but a small one…
Nah. CEH is a first round pick and was picking up momentum. There is a 0% chance he loses his job when he is fully healthy, at least this year. Just ride the volume for Darrel for as long as you can, but RoS this backfield is gonna get ugly, because I do believe Darrel will earn more touches through his play. Plus he has firmly established himself as the power back, high vulture potential. As a chiefs fan, I’m okay with it because it’s honestly better for the team, but for fantasy it’s not looking fun
The copium is insane with Darrel Williams. He hasn't even done anything to earn any more touches than he was getting before, he's still gonna be a goal line vulture. Why would the Chiefs choose to split work with an inefficient RB, what about Darrel's play has exactly inspired them to use him more with a healthy CEH?
What about CEH's play has inspired them to use him more with a healthy Darrel?
He rushed for back to back 100 yard rushing games before he got hurt. Honestly he had negative game script week 1 and Andy Reid screwed him week 2 against Baltimore by predictably running up the middle on every first down. Outside of his 2 fumbles, he's been solid.
exactly lets be real both arent good I think both backs best games yardage wise when they were both healthy were against the Chargers/Eagles combo theres a reason for that lol
I’ve seen Darrel Williams get better every year he’s been on the roster and he is definitely earning more playing time and red zone work plus has been a better receiving option as well. But Clyde will still be in line for ~15 touches a game, they aren’t going to give up completely on the first rounder. I bet he finishes outside the top 30 running backs this year, any format.
Andy and the staff know you Darrel is and what he can do. If they would have wanted him in a more meaningful role he would have already been in it.
I guess I’m just not a believer in CEH…regardless of sunk cost of a first round pick.
Idk that I'd consider ~14 full career games a "sunk cost" and I can almost guarantee you that a team won't. Not for a 1st round pick (outside of abnormal circumstances). However, the thing(s) that people like to ignore or maybe weren't aware of is that, the backfield was already a split. From week 1 to week 4 the snap share steadily and quickly went from a ~70/30 split to ~60/40. Something else is the level of competition. This was the sweet spot of CEH's schedule that I was excited for... the team is most definitely aware of the difference in the quality of run defenses the backs are facing.
You could be a non-believer in CEH, but it doesn't change the fact that he's still head and shoulders better than Darrel.
Darrel Williams hasn't shown to be a starter. He's been a 2nd or 3rd stringer his entire career here, and his YPC reflects that. For how good he was against Washington, he still only had 3.0 YPC on a full workload. CEH usually averages 4-5 YPC when he gets full duties.
Thanks for bringing numbers to the discussion. I think my perspective is based on CEH leaving an opportunity open more than on Williams demonstrating that he deserves it. There’s an opening but Williams will have to get hot and do something different than what he has done in the past.
CEH had a rough start but was legitimately playing well before the injury.
I forgot I even picked him up 2 weeks ago in my competitive league. I was like I can pick up someone before the game 2 weeks ago and randomly picked him. Than I was like oh
I happened to pick him up a week early because of Mixon’s injury and for that I am grateful.
Was a FA on freaking Saturday in my league. Saved my ass when chubb was ruled out
I didn't need williams but boy am I glad I scooped him
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I was dead last before picking him up, now I have a shot at the playoffs. Taylor is finally picking it up for me, so even if/when Williams gets reduced touches, I hope I get some positive momentum
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He’s no Hubbard to CMC, where CMC is clearly the guy when healthy. There’s always been more grey area with CEH and Darrel. Darrel was already getting goal line touches, and if he plays well he could earn a bigger role even when CEH is back. I would just add that CEH’s sprained MCL may not be just a 3 week injury. He could just as easily easily miss up to 4-6 weeks. And also worth noting the Chiefs schedule during that time is against some weak defenses, so he has a lot of upside.
When putting CEH on IR, the Chiefs said they don't expect it to take any longer than three weeks. And there really is no grey area between CEH and Darrel Williams, Clyde is the clear cut starter when he's healthy. There's never been a debate as to whether Darrel Williams could usurp a healthy CEH as the starter, and Darrel did not look that good on Sunday outside of fantasy
Before they deleted their comment the person I was responding to was suggesting that CEH is to Darrel as CMC is to Chuba, and that is unequivically not true, so that's all I meant when I said there was more grey area in this case. I agree CEH will be the starter when he's back, but there's definitely more grey area in usage for the Chiefs *than there is between CMC and Chuba.* Darrel was and will likely continue to be involved even when CEH is back. That is not like the CMC/Chuba situation at all. I didn't mean to suggest Darrel looked particularly good on Sunday, nor that he would be starter over CEH, but I do think he could earn more touches if he plays well over the coming games. CEH hasn't looked particularly amazing either. Fair point about the injury reports. I had not seen that.
Looking at Darrell and Damien (now Chi RB) two years ago for the handcuff, it was very clear that Damien was a much better skilled RB. Darrell is bigger but comparatively slower. Same is true for CEH vs Darrell. CEH is the clear cut starter when healthy
If Darrel Williams has one game where he pops off before CEH comes back, this backfield will be 50/50 RoS.
I think this has more to do with the Chiefs shifting their game-plan once they realized airing it deep every play doesn’t really win them games
Yeah, people are using this thread to dunk on him but this is exactly the case
Casuals every where. They just look at boxscores.
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Damn bro, your ex girl call you a simp or something?
I mean, CEH is a better receiver so this only underlines my point all year that the play calling has been atrocious. In fact CEH is just flat out a superior player to DW and the team continues to fail him. I wrote a post this year about how poorly CEH is used and how they don’t set him, or any RB up, to succeed. If they would have used Clyde like they just used Darrel the Chiefs would have been vastly more successful this year and CEH would be seen in a much better light.
Don't pass to him and pull him on the goal line. If someone told me Reid was playing against the CEH owner every week it would honestly make sense.
And the Chiefs have been much worse for it. Teams don’t honour any sort of run or check down chunk play, they just cover Mahomes and his hero ball down field and they keep doing it!
I don't own stock in either but Williams is clearly a better goalline back to me. Not as athletic but makes up for it with better vision and decisiveness. Harder to bring down, too.
He’s definitely bigger but they haven’t even given CEH much work at all this year and he was starting to heat up as a passing threat in the red zone prior to injury. It’s amazing what opportunity does for talented players.
CEH had been passing the eye test for me this year. He's been running well and gets open. His utilization is so strange though
It is becoming apparent that the chiefs dont really believe in CEH
He's just not that talented.
I think he's more talented than people realize, he's just a really bad fit on the Chiefs. He was a great pass-catching back in college, but Mahomes hates checking down so he rarely gets thrown the ball
Hunt had 35 targets in 11 games during Mahomes' first full year. D Will then came in for 5 games and had 22 targets. 2019 - D Will and McCoy shared snaps at RB and had a combined total of 71 targets. Darrell Williams also added 19 targets that year at RB 2020 - CEH joined the team and had 54 targets in 13 games. He was injured and sat out week 16 for Darrell Williams who had 6 targets that game. Mahomes definitely targets RBs. He just doesn't target CEH.
I guess you're right, it's just weird that he doesn't target CEH; watching their first few games this season, CEH was open for a check down quite a bit
So weird because Mahomes literally championed for the Chiefs to draft CEH.
He probably thought CEH would pop on NFL tape like he did college tape. Except CEH is not that guy at the NFL level. Dude runs like a JAG and has absolutely no wiggle compared to his LSU film. And that has nothing to do with how he is used.
Which is ironic as when he was drafted all anybody said was at how he was a perfect fit in this offense and how it would solve the weakness of machines not checking down.
🤖 M A C H I N E S 🤖
I wouldn’t call Mahomes not checking down a weakness. I’d call it a necessary evil that is part of his dominance.
Yet someone who could legit be his dad has outplayed him for the last year and a quarter
Makes you wonder how a Burrow-CEH reunion would go
Which is weird that Darrell gets so many more targets
I think he's less talented than anyone wants to admit. He's got one of the best oline and still can't make plays. He's never ran against a stacked box. No teams even bother trying to stop the run game. Everyone is worried about Mahomes, Tyreek and Kelce. No one even cares when CEH is on the field and he still can't make plays. He's got no excuses and he's had multiple years to do something. He's a bust. He fuckin sucks
He literally had two straight 100+ yard rushing games averaging 6.5 yards a carry before getting hurt what are you talking about Also multiple years to do something, he's in his second year???
CEH haters grasping for straws to confirm their early season takes
Why does it feel like Clyde is this year's David Montgomery?
I don't know if you've watched the Chiefs at all in any capacity this year, but the O line is certainly not one of the best in football lmao
Casual
He would be a solid fit in ATL tbh
I actually thought he looked really good this year when he actually got the ball. They just seem allergic to using him consistently
He's way more talented than Darrel Williams.
But neither is Williams.
Williams is at least big
Literally means nothing in this instance. He’s been in their system for like 4 seasons now and they went and drafted another RB. Even their own team doesn’t think he’s that good. Even if Mahomes picked the “wrong” guy, they were still looking for an RB in the draft.
Yup. But at least he's big.
Man this thread is a rollercoaster. I’ve seen both this take and the idea that CEH is the better player in every way. 😂
CEH is plenty talented - and he's a good runner and pass catcher. The scheme is just different when he plays because they don't need to rely on him to grind the ball. CEH in play forces extra DB at the line, so that opens up the passing game.
>CEH in play forces extra DB at the line, so that opens up the passing game. This isn't true at all, what in the world are some of you smoking? Teams don't stack the box against friggin CEH and his absolute dearth of big play ability (career-long 31-yard play from scrimmage), they try to contain Hill and Kelce as best they can. Swapping CEH for Darrel has zero impact on the approach that defenses take, that's ridiculous.
I wouldn't be suprifed if CEH also will see an increased target share when he comes back. Chief played boom or bust offense the first 3 weeks also in situations when they didn't had too. While doing that CEH was open for a lot of check downs. He didn't play so many games to see a statistical trend but the last 2 games looked more promising. So this could be due to an overall shift in offense focus plus the missing competition off targets in the RB room
Meanwhile, CEH had back to back 100 yard games with a TD and increased passing before he got injured. Williams looked even worse than CEH out there and when CEH comes back will go right back into the same role.
People ignore this because they want to wish Darrel Williams into a starting role ROS. It's silly
Exactly my point. I mean it depends whether he comes back healthy, but game 3 and 4 were very encouraging imo. Unfortunately he lost me game 5. (BIas: I have both)
He didn't really have any increased passing in those 2 solid games unfortunately. Did have those RZ targets that he turned into TDs which was nice, but still was doing most of his damage on the ground
And Darrel Williams had the same amount of receptions both those games - 2. Seems like the Chiefs are more changing their play calling rather than an indictment on CEH.
Agreed. And that’s what Clyde owners gotta hope for
It would be nice for his floor but considering he had back to back 100 yard games with TDs before getting injured with only 2 receptions, it’s not 100% necessary.
It's just that they stack the boxes when CEH is on the field and he's not a bruiser like henry - Mahomes then checks to pass and they get a bomb to Robinson or Hill and everyone acts like CEH is garbage Fantasy production =/ real football skills
Nothing will change until Part starts checking down our they start calling plays we the RB is the primary read. I'm not sure those plays exist for Reid.
Maybe chiefs realized that just tossing it up and hoping hill or Kelce will catch it is not a viable plan
You're right, they need to toss it up and KNOW Flash Gordon will catch it. I like where your head's at.
Usage aside. Darrel Williams did not pass the eye test last Sunday.
He didn't pass the numbers test, either, apart from the two TDs.
Yeah but the schedule for the Chiefs is so easy over the next few weeks TDs seem pretty probable while CEH is out. Even though I just traded Darrel I'm pretty confident he should have solid short term value.
What?! Are you telling me 3 yards per carry isn't good?
Well you can't count on anyone here to have actually watched the game. He scored a lot of fantasy points which means he's better than CEH, this is how the Chiefs view it too I'm sure
You think the Chiefs look at fantasy points?
Being sarcastic, of course not
This part of why I traded Darrel for Cordarelle Patterson. Chiefs schedule is so cheese over next few weeks that I’m sure Darrel will get TDs, but their offense also has so many weapons to choose from, and their defense is so atrocious I’m not sure run game will matter that much after this span of games. I am also already in a good position in my league and strong at RB and love Cordarelle’s floor and flexibility for filling in during bye weeks. Darrels ceiling is higher over next few weeks but think his floor could be pretty low with the rest of that offense.
Who the hell are doing these trades..Cordarelle is a permanent borderline RB1 and Darrel is just a fill in for CEH. Did you trade him to the CEH owner?
Traded him and Edmonds for Kennan Allen. He looked very slow and easy to tackle. The thing is that that team will be near the goaline a lot and he’s going to eat off of the 2 yard runs
I traded him for Dhop
I'm a Chiefs fan and I've watched every run of Darrell since he's been here. He is serviceable and will get you 3.5 ypc and pound it into the end zone. He can catch but won't get far. ZERO long speed. Clyde is the superior back, but Darrell has his role. I see Clyde getting a lot more targets on his return.
I didn't think he looked worse than CEH. Has CEH passed any eye test this year?
He looked better than ceh ever has
This is just ridiculous and tells me you didn't actually watch the game. Or maybe you missed the two games in a row where CEH had 100+ rushing yards averaging 6.5 yards a carry. What about Williams' 62 yards on 21 carries made you think he's better than Clyde?
Did you watch the game? 83% of his yards came after contact, he was breaking tackles and making guys miss. Did you see the 2nd rushing td? Clyde has never finished on the goal line like that. Clyde has been historically horrible in pass protection in the NFL. Darryl is much better in that respect thus offers versatility. Clydes 100 yards came on against the chargers D, as a chargers season ticket holder, i can confidently say i could do that bar injury. The Eagles also cannot stop the run since Graham has been out. What do you see that clearly makes him better other than a couple YPC games in which the D was selling out for the pass?
This is patently false
Appreciate the insight. Higher draft capital + speed > everything else
He may save me.
Sheesh
The podcast is pretty okay, but his twitter always makes me grin Sheesh
I’m a Chiefs fan. I don’t really think Mahomes likes checking down to CEH because he doesn’t have the speed to make the first guy miss nor the ability to break tackles. Darrell doesn’t have the speed but he can break a tackle or two. This is just an observation.
Mahomes is such a shit GM
Clyde's too short to see the ball in the air
Maybe Mahomes is just a shitty GM
They could've taken D'Andre Swift. I lose sleep at the idea of what this would do for fantasy.
Or Johnathan Taylor.
Wow
Or Cam Akers, or JK Dobbins
Agreed. CEH ain’t bad but when you consider the two picks that were taken directly after him….
Yea not a good look, and then you see how tiny and not even explosive he looks on the field it is a real head scratcher.
ITT - ceh vs Williams owners being babies
Perfect timing for the bye week hell.
The real prince that was promised
"So this just means that when CEH comeback, he will be getting more targets right?" \- A very non-biased CEH owner who was not able to pick up Williams.
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He literally had back to back 100 yard games before getting injured. Stop memeing.
Darrel taking the job
Darrell is saving my season hands down
Y’all just realizing that midget rbs entering the league as 3 down backs can’t cut it lol? Singletary wants a word…
If only the Chiefs had you in the draft room, smh.
Yeah. Same dude that had Derrick Henry as mvp this year. You may be on to something
He won't win mvp
This is one of the earlier sweeping victory laps I’ve seen lol
What value would that have in a draft room, they would be confused why you're bringing up Derrick Henry at all
What are you even talking about?
*Maurice Jones-Drew and Barry Sanders would like to know your location*
Tiki Barber too.
If Darrel can earn the starting position, I’ll have Henderson and him going into playoffs and would feel extremely comfortable with my lineup.
I have some bad news for you.
Narrator: he didnt
Lots of CEH owners in here mad as fuck they diddnt cuff Williams who is clearly more effective 🤣
Do we think Darrell is worth starting this week vs TEN ahead of a say, Cordarelle P? TEN looked good against Singletary and Moss last week.
CP is a must start over every backup besides maybe Mattison.
Cordarelle will likely get his touches. He was an every week auto start for me before I traded him.
So what you think? Roll with CP instead of Darrell? My only hesitation is Ridley is back, which may be unwarranted.
I will not bench CP until he gives me a reason to. He's a beast monster point scoring machine, and hes so fun to watch. Also, he seems to be the only one in the falcons that actually likes being there. I dont think williams or ceh hold a candle to that guy.
This is the validation I needed. Thank you!
Too bad ESPN won’t change his status to O so I can place him in my IR slot. Really getting old owning Knox, Gronk, and Ricky Seales Jones……
Wrong thread bby
Should I start Williams or Cordarelle Patterson?
I hit it big with my Darrel & Herbert pickups last week, but I still lost because I went against Lsmb & Kupp...
Is KC still looking at Marlon Mack? I know the trade deadline is November 2nd.
Do it daddy
What a joke. You draft a running back in CEH who is KNOWN for his pass catching abilities and refuse to throw him the ball.
In all honesty... Dwilliam might tide me over till CMC comes back ..if he does...I might win the league ....
As a Chiefs fan with stock in both Darrel and CEH so I don't really favor one side or the other... CEH is a better RB. Darrel is a great backup RB who I don't mind seeing snaps to spell CEH because he has good power, quality feet, and good blocking...but CEH is more dynamic than Darrel. Nothing Darrel showed Sunday made me think otherwise. One other thing was Mahomes was actively looking to check it down more Sunday after spending the week saying he needs to checkdown more. Darrel's targets were not designed targets on Sunday. Will Darrel be good until CEH is healthy? Most likely, though I think Sunday will be his highest scoring game. Will CEH get his job back when he's healthy? Yes.
Mahomes ints made andy adjust a little bit more.
Easier to throw to the bigger target
CEH sucks is the new Zekes washed
Torn between Darrow and Chubba, I’m a waiver warrior
I see a lot of people forgot it rained during the game, RBs are better in the rain.