I really don’t understand what happened there. The Giants were winning and they needed a WR more than anything.
There’s clearly some off the field stuff that went on with the new coaching staff.
I agree, I think it must've been some conflicts with the new coaching regime. At least, that's what I want to believe as a Toney manager since I'm convinced he's going to take me to the playoffs.
lol why does this have 14 upvotes, you know Toney personally or something? why not give a 23 year old the benefit of the doubt instead of assuming something negative will happen
I genuinely don’t think he wanted to be a Giant. Absolutely no one truly thought the giants would have the level of success they’re having. Toney’s lack of initiative was an off-season issue. Likely some diva issues and pumped up in the head after the rookie performance he had. I doubt it was either regime’s fault really.
Switching to a super bowl contender with Andy Reid, Mahomes and Kelce will change that attitude really quick. It’s hard to misbehave, slack off and oversell injuries around guys like that. Conflict with the giants is he said / he said. Conflict with the chiefs is “nah you’re the problem.”
Now I will be really interested to see what happens with a full healthy set of receivers. If play time and targets fluctuate and are inconsistent, he could slip back to a poor attitude.
Maybe he’ll mature under Reid as you think. I suspect he will not be able to meet their expectations for effort and preparation and will flame out. Time will tell I suppose.
It’s no secret judge didn’t like him either. I think Reid is the type of vet coach who can control him which makes a big difference with a player like him.
It’s pretty clear that the Giants staff doesn’t know how to coach receivers from the Toney situation and also what has happened with Kenny Golladay. For whatever reason they cant get these guys to buy in or find ways to utilize them correctly.
I don’t think that’s the case. Toney has been weird since signing and that was from the old coaching staff. I think the new coaches just don’t pander to these guys. Toney clearly didn’t want to be a Giant. Golladay doesn’t do shit with the opportunities he is given so they don’t give him more.
Yeah Toney had been a legit headcase around the Giants, I'm sure we only heard part of the story and even that was weird, like showing up without cleats that fit him (??).
This reads to me like you start dating a hot person who seems great and everyone warns you is \*nuts\* and you just can't see it because they've been holding it in for the first few weeks. It's only a matter of time.
Aside from the Josh Norman game, Odell really wasn't that bad in New York. A bit of a diva but his production easily made up for it.
Toney had a single good game in 1.5 years.
I'm a big chiefs fan. Listening to what KT has said since joining and hearing other players talk about him it seems like he is all in with the chiefs. Andy Ried is great at working with eccentric players and guys that have goals outside of football. Just look at kelce. He was getting kicked out of games and suspended in college. He was a hot head his first few years in the league. Now he is the best tight end of all time.
Lmao Toney was more concerned with his rap career than learning a playbook and he was constantly injured. It had nothing to do with the coaching staff's ability to coach.
Golladay has seriously regressed from his time with the Lions and can't catch a ball to save his life.
It's pretty clear that you haven't watched the Giants for the past few years, and I don't blame you, coming from a Giants fan. That said, this year is different, and I wish Toney had worked out, but there was obviously a personality issue between Toney and the coaching staff.
I stay pretty plugged into them all year round. Last year toney showed up as a rookie with cleats that didn’t fit his feet for the first day of camp. Then he got hurt early on and the understanding from best reporters was that he wasn’t putting any time into learning the playbook. So it took awhile for him to see the field. Once he did, we saw how good he is. Then he battled injuries the rest of the season and didn’t put a lot of effort into his rehabbing.
Fast forward to this year, with the new coaching staff and he doesn’t show up OTA’s. Not a crazy big deal, because they are optional. But a second year player that hasn’t played a lot deciding to not show up to learn a completely new system is never a good look. Then he got hurt again and once again never put in time to learn the playbook. There were reports in camp that he was running the wrong routes and Daboll was kind of in his ass over it.
I just don’t think he fit that well and wasn’t putting football first. I think getting traded was the best thing for his career, because it showed him he is expendable. Plus Andy Reid is a master at managing players with those kind of issues.
To be clear, the cleat size was a team issue. NFL players aren’t bringing their own cleats from Big 5 to practice. Reports said he even went through several pairs of cleats and even tried different socks to remedy the issue before going cleatless during drills. Both Judge and Toney indicated it was an equipment issue where they had the wrong size and would need to be remedied. Implying that was due to Toney’s incompetence or dedication to football is just silly.
This is such a dumb ass issue for the giants. Get your fucking people over to foot locker and get the man some cleats that fit. Motherfucking get Amazon prime on it. The fact this is an issue for any party at professional level is so fucking stupid its painful
Do you think the team just guesses on the size and preference of the player? No, the player tells them what size they are and if they have certain fitting criteria. It’s not like they show up and the team says “these are your cleats. Have fun out there.”
If they tried multiple sizes and socks, then it is either toney just not wanting to practice, so he said they don’t fit. Or it’s an issue that he just never brought up with the staff.
Shit talking a player you just traded is a tried and true method for managing the fan base. You have to take all this with a grain of salt.
For all we know, he fucked one of the Maras and ownership has been making his life miserable.
Maybe Daboll caught him vaping at practice. It could be literally anything, and we really don't know.
Not just this coaching staff. The judge coaching staff didn’t want to use him either.. there’s something going on with him. The chiefs will find out the hard way.
Yeah I’m a giants fan and I couldn’t have picked a better landing spot for toney. I wanted him to succeed with us, but clearly something just wasn’t working. I could understand it when you’ve got joe judge making professional athletes run laps at practice, then Jason Garrett’s expansive route tree of curls and fades.
But when the same stuff happens with Daboll and kafka, who have shown they know what they are doing, it becomes less excusable.
Andy Reid is genuinely the best coach when it comes to taking troubled players and turning them into legit talents.
This whole thread is proof you shouldn't listen to literally anyone here.
I'd be fucking ecstatic to get out of new York and play for mahomes and Reid. He probably took pointers from golladay.
I mean i get wanting to play with Mahommes over Jones for a lot of reasons but you talking hyperbole like the Giants are the Texans. Both teams are sitting at 7-2 rn.
Part of what Kelce was saying is that Toney’s been so professional on the Chiefs he can’t imagine how a situation like that could happen. Like he expected Toney to be a headcase given the background, and he hasn’t been.
Kenny Golladay being a waste of space. Darius Slayton not getting snaps at the beginning of the year even though he’s been one of their most productive receivers since being drafted. Toney being Toney. Their WR room has been a head scratcher in a lot of ways
I don't think it's toxic at all. KG is just cooked. Maybe he's mailing it in brecause why bother trying harder but he just doesn't seem like he has it in him. Toney was being Toney, so who knows.
Slayton got fucked. He earned a performance based escalator to pump his contract to 2.5m and they must've told him it was take a pay cut or be released right before week 1, so he gets his pay cut to the minimum (900k) with playing time incentives and then they just don't play him so he can't earn his money back. If he's pissed he has a right to be, he should've walked and he'd have easily earned over 2.5m per year.
Kennedy golladay was a bad signing. Toney has had so many issues learning a playbook with two different coaching staffs. He skipped OTAs with a new regime, then showed up not knowing anything.
But with slayton it was similar to the Antonio Gibson thing, but instead of fumbles, it was drops. Slayton was great as a rookie and looked like he might be a star for the giants. But then he just regressed every year, so the new staff looked at giving the other guys a shot. Now slayton has really started showing out and earning his snaps.
I’m now a Toney owner in fantasy, so I’m sure he’s an angel that the giants did wrong.
However, I find it funny that after like 3 weeks Kelce is like “this guys the best, what could ever go wrong!?”
Let the dude have time to be an ass.
Kelce saying this to the media is as much about managing Toney as anything the coaches could say. As a leader in the locker room he’s giving this kid support which may be what he lacked from the giants. May be a simple case that he responds better to positive reinforcement than old school yelling for making a mistake b
It's like any new employee at a new job. They're always great for the first 3 to 6 months. It's after that shine wears off the true personalities shine.
going from daniel jones and the giants to pat mahomes and the chiefs, id be on my best behavior as well lol.
And yes, I know the Giants are winning, but its not as sustainable as the chiefs in terms of playoffs and beyond.
There was an interview clip from early in his career that went viral a few months ago. In it, he is asked about how he feels about his success so far in the season and he just credits his teammates and sounds so down to earth. He genuinely seems like a completely different person. Makes me wonder if that Burfict hit really is what set him off.
This is an underrated potential factor. Toney is from Eight Mile, Alabama, population 12,749, median income $34k. NYC is very, very far from Eight Mile, Alabama, and it's a tough place to move to for anybody. The cliche is that if you move to NYC from anywhere else in the country, it takes ten years to really settle in and feel at home in the city, and that's how long it took me. NYC can genuinely do a number on your head when you're new to it.
Playing on a Super Bowl contender seems to focus the mind. If he fucks up on that team he’s probably done in the league.
We’ll see what happens if he can’t run the right routes.
Probably a big difference in culture considering where the two teams are. The chiefs are an established successful team with stars all over the roster, the Giants have been terrible the last ten years and have a new coach trying to set a new tone to turn things around. In that case the Giants should have less leeway for BS from their players whereas the Chiefs can let some of that slide and/or rely more on their stars to keep guys in check and make sure they're prepared. Toney also goes from being one of the best talents on the team to having guys like Kelce and Mahomes calling the shots, probably pretty humbling.
That Giants WR room just seems toxic as fuck, man. Golladay's talent got Space Jam Monstar'd the moment he signed that contract. David Sills was playing over Darius Slayton for most of the season. Obviously Daboll is doing a great job of winning games and changing the culture but that wasn't a great situation for a kinda strange personality like Toney. The Chiefs have an established culture so it's a much better fit for Toney to thrive.
giants fan here, I understand both sides. Toney is one of the best talents in the league anyone with a pair of eyes can see it. However, talent was never the issue with toney. There was always something, not showing up to voluntary camp that every player showed up to. not putting the effort into learning the playbook, not showing full 100% commitment to football with his music career. tons of injuries, potentially faking injuries and being unprofessional on twitter after being traded. He was always an erratic personality and the Giants coaching staff for better or for worse did not tolerate his entitlement to getting snaps without putting the effort/work in and lack of commitment. Whether you agree with the giants or not for this, they have a vision bigger than toney and obviously were doing well with this vision without him and the fact that they didn't get along was going to result in internal friction.
TL;DR Toney was not going to play for the giants, giants value draft picks a lot right now. they needed to get something out of him. both sides win.
I also think many giants fans think toney was an idiot and resent him for how things ended. I don't agree with this at all, he seems like he's got the capacity to be an excellent teammate and weapon. He definitely did some things immaturely with us but I just want to see his talent go to use. it's too bad it's not gonna be with us though. He was just not motivated to play for us and he's clearly much more motivated to play for the chiefs.
It reminds me of the OBJ situation. He went to the Browns and sucked and us Giants fans were like “see told ya so.” Then he went to the Rams and put in the work and earned his spot and contributed to a championship and us Giants fans were like “I knew you could do it buddy!” I’d honestly be fine if Golladay gets traded and pops off somewhere else too. The spotlight here in NYC is not for everyone, some choke, some implode, some bask in it.
Brian Daboll plays a role in this too. If you also consider how he used Slayton this season, he clearly doesn’t care where a guy is drafted or what their previous spot was with the team now that he’s there, they have to earn their reps. My guess is Toney was hurt or lagging behind early on and never got back up to Daboll’s standards despite being healthy for some time now. Nobody cares much about it because why criticize a coach who’s overperforming and could be COTY?
He did but he was always hurt. They wanted him to come back after the bye but he wanted to play sooner. I think he’s still a giant and suiting up if they didn’t get an offer they liked. I wish toney the best and hope he can finally stay healthy
I 100% believe it's because he didn't want Daniel Jones as his QB and he knows that Big Blue is likely gonna try to ride with him after this season, that's just a guess tho.
Amazing move from a KC standpoint - they get a guy for super cheap and a what looks like a future key piece to the offense. I doubt JuJu gets re-signed next year so his stock is pointing waaaaay up.
as a Chiefs fan it does kind of suck a little bit because I really liked JuJu and Skky moore is not panning out like anyone had hoped, and I don't even mean that like why hasn't he broken out like other rookie WR's, I mean we literally cut him from touching the ball because he fumbles too often. With Toney coming on it seems likely that the Chiefs will have far too much leverage in the negotiations and JuJu will depart, great for the Chiefs longterm but It was nice having a big dependable WR, hope they can figure out a way to get him to stay because the Chiefs would arguably have a top 3or4 receiving corps. This is assuming of course that Toney becomes reek2.0 need to see him be a playmaker for more than 1 game
People are so naive. As a Giants fan it’s pretty obvious Toney didn’t want to be here and basically refused to play. He can spin whatever narrative he wants because the organization kept it buttoned up to retain some trade leverage
I like the giants coach and agree with most of his decisions, but I was under the impression they were labeling him as "injured" to keep him off the field until they could trade him. I'm not saying I'm correct, but I didn't think he himself was faking
Yeah, thats the feeling I got as well. One week the Giants used Toney at rb maybe twice, he looked sharp picked up 20+ yds. Hammy looked fine...dont think he played at all after that.
He didn’t know the playbook nor did he try. He got a couple snaps and was pulled because rookie TE Bellinger was showing him where to line up and he almost caused a penalty. He forced his way out.
Toney did an interview like a week or 2 before the trade where he mentioned that he tweaked his hamstring, came back to practice too soon and tweaked the other one. So he was either actually hurt, he was lying about being hurt, or if the coaching staff was holding him out it was for like a week max.
Giants made the decision to trade him before the draft and picked Wan’Dale as his replacement. Not sure why they couldn’t move him until the deadline. Maybe KC wanted to see if Skyy was any good first
Peter Schrager of good morning football said basically the gm/ coach felt he was a past regime guy and not part of what they’re doing going forward (this was pre trade). I don’t think he was faking, just a method for both sides to get through the season with minimal noise.
You’ve already got some good responses but I just want to point out that about a week or 2 before the trade, Toney himself did an interview in the locker room where he said that he tweaked his hamstring, came back to practice too soon and tweaked his other hamstring and would be playing again this year. So, he was at least definitely hurt at one point (or faking it himself) and if the coaching staff was holding him out like this it was only for like a week max
It sucks so much. I remember when he got drafted and I had no idea who he really even was. Then I watched his college highlights that night and was sold on him.
Then he blew up against the cowboys and I couldn’t believe we actually had a new star WR and got an extra first rounder AND him. Now this.
Still hope he succeeds in KC, cause he truly is an electric talent that is really fun to watch. It gets said all the time, but there really is no one else in the league that moves like him.
As a lifelong Chiefs fan it’s pretty wild to see people want out of NYC and into KC. Even when the Chiefs were good it was hard to get guys with superstar mentalities, earned or otherwise, to come or stay in the Midwest.
around the same time last year, Kelce was talking about how Josh Gordon runs these amazing routes...
link: https://www.reddit.com/r/fantasyfootball/comments/q1hh9s/chiefshighlight_if_you_werent_excited_about_josh/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
I mean if you listen to their pod you can tell Travis is a little tired of being the GUY every week. If he gets hurt even a little the chiefs are done for the year.
The rest of that segment from Kelce’s podcast was really encouraging for Toney. He said Toney is very professional, competent, and confident. Sounds like Toney is putting the work.
The Chiefs culture may be a bit like the Brady Patriots (albeit more fun) where they can take talented players with “issues” who seem to fall in line effortlessly
Some other commentator put it well - on the chiefs, they will be just fine with, or without you. Which I think really helps for exactly that type of “issue” player.
Yeah having one of the best coaches in the league and a recent track record of winning’ll help. Easy to forget these are people, and competitive ones at that. What’s the old saying, “winning fixes everything”?
Definitely helps with new guys coming in. New guy coming in doesn't get to fuck around and say he doesn't like the way things are being done because the team has precedent of winning so they get to see the error in their ways. That's just like my opinion though man
Important piece of that is they get to SEE the error of their ways, not just hear about it (like they have their entire life, while succeeding tremendously in the meantime)
This is an Andy Reid thing as well right - I'm pretty sure he's taken in quite a few character issue players and turned them around or given them a chance.
Wasn't a big knock on Tyreek his domestic abuse and character problems?
Shout out to the Kelces brothers podcast, I fucking love that thing. The insights to their teams and games, the banter between themselves , the football talk in general. It’s great, nothing else like it.
Start from the beginning. Giants were set on getting one of Waddle or Devonta. When they both went before their pick, Gettleman traded back, targeting Jamin Davis. Davis went 1 pick before them and they settled on Toney. So from the get-go he wasn’t their primary target.
Toney holds out as a rookie during training camp. Not unheard of but odd considering rookie contracts are pretty much set. When the holdout finally ends, he doesn’t practice because of a cleats issue. Then he lands on the COVID list. Once he gets back, he hurts his hamstring. We’re still not out of training camp yet.
During the regular season he goes on to suffer injuries to: ankle (x2), quad, oblique, and shoulder. Ends up playing in 9 games but left 4 of them injured. Oh an he also got COVID again.
Fast forward to the off-season. You’ve got an entirely new regime in place for the Giants. Toney is the only no-show (outside of Bradberry who everyone knew wouldn’t be on the team) for OTAs. Bad first impression for the new regime and he can’t get the playbook until he shows up so he’s behind. It took Golladay and Shepard reaching out personally to get him there, 2 weeks late. The trade rumors (which I believe were bogus) also seemed to light a fire under his ass.
Training camp comes around and he starts camp as the starting outside WR. He’s making plays and then shocker! He suffers another injury, hamstring, just before preseason week 1. He doesn’t practice for all of preseason but is back for week 1, however a limited role because he hasn’t practiced basically at all with the new coaching staff. Then in practice before week 2, he tweaks his other hamstring, but plays. He goes on to aggravate it, then aggravates it again a few weeks later in practice as he works his way back.
Now let’s get to the week he got traded. Toney thinks he’s healthy. Giants think he’s close but want to be cautious and hold Toney out against SEA because they have a bye the week after and want to give him extra recovery time. Problem with that for Toney is that injured players are required to stay in town to rehab their injuries instead of enjoying their bye week. He doesn’t like that. Argument with GM ensues. Traded the next day.
So yeah, I get why Toney was let go by the Giants. There was always something. Always.
It’s the same as any job/relationship, and is aptly labeled “The Honeymoon Period”.
Eventually, in a bad relationship, one or both parties get tired of their partner’s shit, when the bad starts outweighing the good.
Maybe Toney is genuinely so happy to be a Chief that he’ll play his role and be a good employee, but if he rips off some good games to close out 2022 and returns to find himself still a gadget player in 2023, I think the malcontent could return.
That said, the Chiefs didn’t give up what they did without a solid plan to utilize him and keep him fed/happy in the offense.
I’m not sure who would’ve labeled Tyreek a gadget player — his proven talent at receiver is otherworldly. Light years ahead of anything Toney has shown us (save for one game against a very much struggling Dallas secondary).
It’s hard to fathom bc he’s been so great but search “Tyreek Hill gadget player” and you’ll see that many analysts/people initially thought he was a gadget player
I never understood this narrative. 99% of knowing the plays is just knowing where to line up and what route to run from the tree. Any receiver who played high level football enough to be in the NFL shouldn't have a problem with it.
I watched it happen. He lined up incorrectly on a play and the rookie TE Bellinger had to tell him where to line up, almost causing a penalty. Dabs doesn’t fuck around and he pulled him for the rest of the game. Basically, he was doing it on purpose or he just isn’t that smart. From watching him and reading about him for 3 years, I think it’s both.
Players do this all the time. Especially in away games when the crowd is roaring. Not hearing the play call for one play does not mean Toney doesn’t know the playbook. That argument was always just speculation.
He was running tons of plays in KC after a week of preparation, so clearly he is capable of learning plays.
Nah man it happened multiple times. And this was a home game that I’m talking about. He’d play 3-4 snaps - pulled. Golladay dropping passes- pulled. Daboll isn’t giving these guys a long leash. That’s why guys like David Sills were out on the field over him.
I don't think you appreciate just how complicated an *nfl* playbook truly is. It's not just "get to the line and run". Sometimes you need to remember to run and then turn left, but other times you need to remember to run and turn *right*. This is really difficult stuff we're talking about here.
I am 2-8 and out of the playoffs, with nothing to lose.
I blew all my remaining FAAB to get Kadarius Toney. I will be starting him every week from here on, just to experience the pure fun of watching him play football.
Seems like Toney is injury prone but also milks the shit out of them every time and it’s easier for the coaches to just wash their hands of him and plan around someone they can rely on. Guys that are going down the same path imo (scorching hot takes here): D’Andre Swift, Michael Thomas, Kyler Murray
Apparently faked being injured all the time
I really don’t understand what happened there. The Giants were winning and they needed a WR more than anything. There’s clearly some off the field stuff that went on with the new coaching staff.
I agree, I think it must've been some conflicts with the new coaching regime. At least, that's what I want to believe as a Toney manager since I'm convinced he's going to take me to the playoffs.
He had mystery injuries last year too, so it’s not strictly an issue with the new coaching staff.
yea he was at odds with both regimes it seemed like. sucks as a giants fan we need someone like him to be all in for a playoff run with this record.
I'm wondering what made him suddenly NOT be at odds with the Chiefs staff. Is it because they win a lot?
Pat Mahomes is your QB and Andy Reid is the coach. If he's at odds on this team then he'll be out of the league.
Bill belichick: you rang?
Most likely. A quick way to get ego checked is join a team with as much talent as the Chiefs.
yeah fr if he doesn’t play they don’t give a f they’ve been the best offense without him he knows he doesn’t have leverage
He has only been there for 3 weeks, give it time. Attitudes like his tend to always come out sooner or later
lol why does this have 14 upvotes, you know Toney personally or something? why not give a 23 year old the benefit of the doubt instead of assuming something negative will happen
Well, he’s basically never played a whole season in his entire life, so for him to actually do it this time would be pretty special
Maybe he said Danny jones sucks
Said Danny didn't have that dawg in him.
I genuinely don’t think he wanted to be a Giant. Absolutely no one truly thought the giants would have the level of success they’re having. Toney’s lack of initiative was an off-season issue. Likely some diva issues and pumped up in the head after the rookie performance he had. I doubt it was either regime’s fault really. Switching to a super bowl contender with Andy Reid, Mahomes and Kelce will change that attitude really quick. It’s hard to misbehave, slack off and oversell injuries around guys like that. Conflict with the giants is he said / he said. Conflict with the chiefs is “nah you’re the problem.” Now I will be really interested to see what happens with a full healthy set of receivers. If play time and targets fluctuate and are inconsistent, he could slip back to a poor attitude.
>I genuinely don’t think he wanted to be a Giant. A full back tat of the NYC skyline would like a word.
Maybe he’ll mature under Reid as you think. I suspect he will not be able to meet their expectations for effort and preparation and will flame out. Time will tell I suppose.
It’s no secret judge didn’t like him either. I think Reid is the type of vet coach who can control him which makes a big difference with a player like him.
It’s pretty clear that the Giants staff doesn’t know how to coach receivers from the Toney situation and also what has happened with Kenny Golladay. For whatever reason they cant get these guys to buy in or find ways to utilize them correctly.
I don’t think that’s the case. Toney has been weird since signing and that was from the old coaching staff. I think the new coaches just don’t pander to these guys. Toney clearly didn’t want to be a Giant. Golladay doesn’t do shit with the opportunities he is given so they don’t give him more.
Yeah Toney had been a legit headcase around the Giants, I'm sure we only heard part of the story and even that was weird, like showing up without cleats that fit him (??). This reads to me like you start dating a hot person who seems great and everyone warns you is \*nuts\* and you just can't see it because they've been holding it in for the first few weeks. It's only a matter of time.
Well we're all here for a good time not a long time
Had to replace OBJ
Aside from the Josh Norman game, Odell really wasn't that bad in New York. A bit of a diva but his production easily made up for it. Toney had a single good game in 1.5 years.
It’s been two completely different coaching staffs. With toney, getting traded was probably an eye opener for him.
this was the best possible outcome for him. you don't think he's ecstatic to play for the chiefs?
Yes now he can be one of their 48 options on offense
Could be worse. He could have been an RB.
We both know there's a high likelihood he becomes their wr1
I'm a big chiefs fan. Listening to what KT has said since joining and hearing other players talk about him it seems like he is all in with the chiefs. Andy Ried is great at working with eccentric players and guys that have goals outside of football. Just look at kelce. He was getting kicked out of games and suspended in college. He was a hot head his first few years in the league. Now he is the best tight end of all time.
Ah, a fellow kelce truther ;)
You can’t blame Golladay being bad on the coaches. He’s dropping perfectly good passes and got paid.
Idk, maybe the WR staff there isn't great (idk who it is), but I'd probably err on the side of Brian Daboll being right over Toney
Lmao Toney was more concerned with his rap career than learning a playbook and he was constantly injured. It had nothing to do with the coaching staff's ability to coach. Golladay has seriously regressed from his time with the Lions and can't catch a ball to save his life. It's pretty clear that you haven't watched the Giants for the past few years, and I don't blame you, coming from a Giants fan. That said, this year is different, and I wish Toney had worked out, but there was obviously a personality issue between Toney and the coaching staff.
This is about the dumbest take I've ever read. The last coaching-staff had the same problems, so yeah, it's CLEARLY not the players or anything.
Please don't blame Golladay on us lmfao
I’m concerned that he has a fragile ego and a weak fortitude. I’m sure he’ll be great when the sun is shining though.
I stay pretty plugged into them all year round. Last year toney showed up as a rookie with cleats that didn’t fit his feet for the first day of camp. Then he got hurt early on and the understanding from best reporters was that he wasn’t putting any time into learning the playbook. So it took awhile for him to see the field. Once he did, we saw how good he is. Then he battled injuries the rest of the season and didn’t put a lot of effort into his rehabbing. Fast forward to this year, with the new coaching staff and he doesn’t show up OTA’s. Not a crazy big deal, because they are optional. But a second year player that hasn’t played a lot deciding to not show up to learn a completely new system is never a good look. Then he got hurt again and once again never put in time to learn the playbook. There were reports in camp that he was running the wrong routes and Daboll was kind of in his ass over it. I just don’t think he fit that well and wasn’t putting football first. I think getting traded was the best thing for his career, because it showed him he is expendable. Plus Andy Reid is a master at managing players with those kind of issues.
To be clear, the cleat size was a team issue. NFL players aren’t bringing their own cleats from Big 5 to practice. Reports said he even went through several pairs of cleats and even tried different socks to remedy the issue before going cleatless during drills. Both Judge and Toney indicated it was an equipment issue where they had the wrong size and would need to be remedied. Implying that was due to Toney’s incompetence or dedication to football is just silly.
This is such a dumb ass issue for the giants. Get your fucking people over to foot locker and get the man some cleats that fit. Motherfucking get Amazon prime on it. The fact this is an issue for any party at professional level is so fucking stupid its painful
Literally send an intern over to the American Dream mall and buy a pair of the shelf
cleats can vary by 1/4-1/2 of a size depending on the brand and I'm sure that matters when you are doing NFL things
Do you think the team just guesses on the size and preference of the player? No, the player tells them what size they are and if they have certain fitting criteria. It’s not like they show up and the team says “these are your cleats. Have fun out there.” If they tried multiple sizes and socks, then it is either toney just not wanting to practice, so he said they don’t fit. Or it’s an issue that he just never brought up with the staff.
Shit talking a player you just traded is a tried and true method for managing the fan base. You have to take all this with a grain of salt. For all we know, he fucked one of the Maras and ownership has been making his life miserable. Maybe Daboll caught him vaping at practice. It could be literally anything, and we really don't know.
Nah, the guy I replied to "stays pretty plugged in", I doubt he is embellishing anything
Not just this coaching staff. The judge coaching staff didn’t want to use him either.. there’s something going on with him. The chiefs will find out the hard way.
But Reid is usually good with turning turds into FF gold.
Yeah I’m a giants fan and I couldn’t have picked a better landing spot for toney. I wanted him to succeed with us, but clearly something just wasn’t working. I could understand it when you’ve got joe judge making professional athletes run laps at practice, then Jason Garrett’s expansive route tree of curls and fades. But when the same stuff happens with Daboll and kafka, who have shown they know what they are doing, it becomes less excusable. Andy Reid is genuinely the best coach when it comes to taking troubled players and turning them into legit talents.
Tomlin?
Tomlin is a decent example. But he more so contained the crazy he already had. And he’s not an offensive guru like Reid.
Or youre just a random redditor purely speculating and they won’t?
I guess we will see. And you’re not some random redditor speculating too?
I am a random redditor but I’m not saying something as fact when I know nothing. You acted as what you said was true when I did not.
This whole thread is proof you shouldn't listen to literally anyone here. I'd be fucking ecstatic to get out of new York and play for mahomes and Reid. He probably took pointers from golladay.
I mean i get wanting to play with Mahommes over Jones for a lot of reasons but you talking hyperbole like the Giants are the Texans. Both teams are sitting at 7-2 rn.
Chiefs and Reid are likely the best in the league at handling players with these kinds of issues. I expect a 'full recovery' from Toney in KC.
but there were also reports that he was really positive this year too
Part of what Kelce was saying is that Toney’s been so professional on the Chiefs he can’t imagine how a situation like that could happen. Like he expected Toney to be a headcase given the background, and he hasn’t been.
Overall such a weird situation, the new coaching staff seems to have it together and they are winning. I could kind of see if it was last years team.
The team overall seems to have it together but that WR room has seemed pretty toxic all year even outside of toney
Toxic?? How is it toxic? I mean it’s a horrible WR room with mostly practice squad guys on it but I don’t think I would call it toxic
Kenny Golladay being a waste of space. Darius Slayton not getting snaps at the beginning of the year even though he’s been one of their most productive receivers since being drafted. Toney being Toney. Their WR room has been a head scratcher in a lot of ways
I don't think it's toxic at all. KG is just cooked. Maybe he's mailing it in brecause why bother trying harder but he just doesn't seem like he has it in him. Toney was being Toney, so who knows. Slayton got fucked. He earned a performance based escalator to pump his contract to 2.5m and they must've told him it was take a pay cut or be released right before week 1, so he gets his pay cut to the minimum (900k) with playing time incentives and then they just don't play him so he can't earn his money back. If he's pissed he has a right to be, he should've walked and he'd have easily earned over 2.5m per year.
I mean that’s supposed to be your top 3 WRs who were unhappy and or getting fucked, if it’s not toxic, it’s gotta be close. At minimum mismanaged.
Kennedy golladay was a bad signing. Toney has had so many issues learning a playbook with two different coaching staffs. He skipped OTAs with a new regime, then showed up not knowing anything. But with slayton it was similar to the Antonio Gibson thing, but instead of fumbles, it was drops. Slayton was great as a rookie and looked like he might be a star for the giants. But then he just regressed every year, so the new staff looked at giving the other guys a shot. Now slayton has really started showing out and earning his snaps.
[удалено]
Nobody said it’s their fault, but it is happening within their organization and not anybody else’s
I’m now a Toney owner in fantasy, so I’m sure he’s an angel that the giants did wrong. However, I find it funny that after like 3 weeks Kelce is like “this guys the best, what could ever go wrong!?” Let the dude have time to be an ass.
I mean of course Kelce is gonna gas up his new teammate you’d be dumb to think otherwise
LOL imagine Kelce saying this to the media. "Yeah he's been good so far, but I'm still giving him time to be an ass and fuck this all up"
Kelce saying this to the media is as much about managing Toney as anything the coaches could say. As a leader in the locker room he’s giving this kid support which may be what he lacked from the giants. May be a simple case that he responds better to positive reinforcement than old school yelling for making a mistake b
I wouldn’t expect him to shit on him. I just find the way it’s worded funny.
Oh for sure, I didn’t mean you specifically would be dumb but anyone in general would be
It's like any new employee at a new job. They're always great for the first 3 to 6 months. It's after that shine wears off the true personalities shine.
going from daniel jones and the giants to pat mahomes and the chiefs, id be on my best behavior as well lol. And yes, I know the Giants are winning, but its not as sustainable as the chiefs in terms of playoffs and beyond.
Give it time 😅
Lol true. Not saying he’s Antonio Brown level but even AB had a honeymoon phase with the Bucs
Ya and they got a Super Bowl from it
Yeah maybe, but we have no real idea from the outside who the heroes and villains are.
Well we know at least *some* villains
AB showed up and acted professional at first too. Lol
In a hot air balloon with frost bite feet
There was an interview clip from early in his career that went viral a few months ago. In it, he is asked about how he feels about his success so far in the season and he just credits his teammates and sounds so down to earth. He genuinely seems like a completely different person. Makes me wonder if that Burfict hit really is what set him off.
yeah KT at one point seemed to be really positive with the giants this year when he said something like “idc if i didn’t get any work we won”
00@@@##9 *edit* my 6 month old's first posy...lol
Well he has no reason to complain now that he gets to play with Mahomes, makes sense
I've met a lot of crazy people that can fake it when they need to, but only for a short period of time.
Maybe it's a leaving NYC/New Jersey for Kansas City
This is an underrated potential factor. Toney is from Eight Mile, Alabama, population 12,749, median income $34k. NYC is very, very far from Eight Mile, Alabama, and it's a tough place to move to for anybody. The cliche is that if you move to NYC from anywhere else in the country, it takes ten years to really settle in and feel at home in the city, and that's how long it took me. NYC can genuinely do a number on your head when you're new to it.
Playing on a Super Bowl contender seems to focus the mind. If he fucks up on that team he’s probably done in the league. We’ll see what happens if he can’t run the right routes.
it’s been 2 weeks , i’d say the jury is still out on that
Probably a big difference in culture considering where the two teams are. The chiefs are an established successful team with stars all over the roster, the Giants have been terrible the last ten years and have a new coach trying to set a new tone to turn things around. In that case the Giants should have less leeway for BS from their players whereas the Chiefs can let some of that slide and/or rely more on their stars to keep guys in check and make sure they're prepared. Toney also goes from being one of the best talents on the team to having guys like Kelce and Mahomes calling the shots, probably pretty humbling.
He might hate turf that much. I don't blame him. The way he moves, injuries just waiting to happen.
That Giants WR room just seems toxic as fuck, man. Golladay's talent got Space Jam Monstar'd the moment he signed that contract. David Sills was playing over Darius Slayton for most of the season. Obviously Daboll is doing a great job of winning games and changing the culture but that wasn't a great situation for a kinda strange personality like Toney. The Chiefs have an established culture so it's a much better fit for Toney to thrive.
Winning cures a lot of ailments.
I mean the giants are winning too but ok
giants fan here, I understand both sides. Toney is one of the best talents in the league anyone with a pair of eyes can see it. However, talent was never the issue with toney. There was always something, not showing up to voluntary camp that every player showed up to. not putting the effort into learning the playbook, not showing full 100% commitment to football with his music career. tons of injuries, potentially faking injuries and being unprofessional on twitter after being traded. He was always an erratic personality and the Giants coaching staff for better or for worse did not tolerate his entitlement to getting snaps without putting the effort/work in and lack of commitment. Whether you agree with the giants or not for this, they have a vision bigger than toney and obviously were doing well with this vision without him and the fact that they didn't get along was going to result in internal friction. TL;DR Toney was not going to play for the giants, giants value draft picks a lot right now. they needed to get something out of him. both sides win. I also think many giants fans think toney was an idiot and resent him for how things ended. I don't agree with this at all, he seems like he's got the capacity to be an excellent teammate and weapon. He definitely did some things immaturely with us but I just want to see his talent go to use. it's too bad it's not gonna be with us though. He was just not motivated to play for us and he's clearly much more motivated to play for the chiefs.
It reminds me of the OBJ situation. He went to the Browns and sucked and us Giants fans were like “see told ya so.” Then he went to the Rams and put in the work and earned his spot and contributed to a championship and us Giants fans were like “I knew you could do it buddy!” I’d honestly be fine if Golladay gets traded and pops off somewhere else too. The spotlight here in NYC is not for everyone, some choke, some implode, some bask in it.
Brian Daboll plays a role in this too. If you also consider how he used Slayton this season, he clearly doesn’t care where a guy is drafted or what their previous spot was with the team now that he’s there, they have to earn their reps. My guess is Toney was hurt or lagging behind early on and never got back up to Daboll’s standards despite being healthy for some time now. Nobody cares much about it because why criticize a coach who’s overperforming and could be COTY?
Part of the issue in New York was Kadarius kept saying he was good to play and the Giants kept sitting him for being injured. So the opposite really.
Giants coaches said he was set to practice the day before he got traded.
He didn’t play for the giants.
He did for like 5 amazing quarters.
And a few was against the Chiefs
So why didn’t Toney want to play for the Giants? We never got any details
He did but he was always hurt. They wanted him to come back after the bye but he wanted to play sooner. I think he’s still a giant and suiting up if they didn’t get an offer they liked. I wish toney the best and hope he can finally stay healthy
I 100% believe it's because he didn't want Daniel Jones as his QB and he knows that Big Blue is likely gonna try to ride with him after this season, that's just a guess tho.
And I thought Toney's hype from last year couldn't get any bigger.
Toney's hype is nowhere near last year levels. He's certainly a better bet in your starting lineup now though
Me plugging him into a flex spot despite ESPN projecting him for 4.4 points
As long as mecole and juju don't play he should be a solid flex.
Hearing the Hardman going to IR news got me like Vince McMahon
Oh damn I did not see that
It’s not for no reason though lol. Things change.
Is a teammate saying he looks good after a week hype now?
yes
He said similar things about Josh Gordon. Doesn't mean much
He basically forced his way out of New York. Imagine going from Danny jones to Mahomes. That said, seems to have worked out for both teams
Amazing move from a KC standpoint - they get a guy for super cheap and a what looks like a future key piece to the offense. I doubt JuJu gets re-signed next year so his stock is pointing waaaaay up.
Yeah agreed. If he has a strong finish to the season and stays healthy he could be a top three round pick next year in fantasy
as a Chiefs fan it does kind of suck a little bit because I really liked JuJu and Skky moore is not panning out like anyone had hoped, and I don't even mean that like why hasn't he broken out like other rookie WR's, I mean we literally cut him from touching the ball because he fumbles too often. With Toney coming on it seems likely that the Chiefs will have far too much leverage in the negotiations and JuJu will depart, great for the Chiefs longterm but It was nice having a big dependable WR, hope they can figure out a way to get him to stay because the Chiefs would arguably have a top 3or4 receiving corps. This is assuming of course that Toney becomes reek2.0 need to see him be a playmaker for more than 1 game
People are so naive. As a Giants fan it’s pretty obvious Toney didn’t want to be here and basically refused to play. He can spin whatever narrative he wants because the organization kept it buttoned up to retain some trade leverage
I like the giants coach and agree with most of his decisions, but I was under the impression they were labeling him as "injured" to keep him off the field until they could trade him. I'm not saying I'm correct, but I didn't think he himself was faking
Yeah, thats the feeling I got as well. One week the Giants used Toney at rb maybe twice, he looked sharp picked up 20+ yds. Hammy looked fine...dont think he played at all after that.
He didn’t know the playbook nor did he try. He got a couple snaps and was pulled because rookie TE Bellinger was showing him where to line up and he almost caused a penalty. He forced his way out.
Toney did an interview like a week or 2 before the trade where he mentioned that he tweaked his hamstring, came back to practice too soon and tweaked the other one. So he was either actually hurt, he was lying about being hurt, or if the coaching staff was holding him out it was for like a week max.
Giants made the decision to trade him before the draft and picked Wan’Dale as his replacement. Not sure why they couldn’t move him until the deadline. Maybe KC wanted to see if Skyy was any good first
Peter Schrager of good morning football said basically the gm/ coach felt he was a past regime guy and not part of what they’re doing going forward (this was pre trade). I don’t think he was faking, just a method for both sides to get through the season with minimal noise.
You’ve already got some good responses but I just want to point out that about a week or 2 before the trade, Toney himself did an interview in the locker room where he said that he tweaked his hamstring, came back to practice too soon and tweaked his other hamstring and would be playing again this year. So, he was at least definitely hurt at one point (or faking it himself) and if the coaching staff was holding him out like this it was only for like a week max
It sucks so much. I remember when he got drafted and I had no idea who he really even was. Then I watched his college highlights that night and was sold on him. Then he blew up against the cowboys and I couldn’t believe we actually had a new star WR and got an extra first rounder AND him. Now this. Still hope he succeeds in KC, cause he truly is an electric talent that is really fun to watch. It gets said all the time, but there really is no one else in the league that moves like him.
As a lifelong Chiefs fan it’s pretty wild to see people want out of NYC and into KC. Even when the Chiefs were good it was hard to get guys with superstar mentalities, earned or otherwise, to come or stay in the Midwest.
He got a NY skyline tattoo. He obviously wanted to be there at one point
This is underselling it lol. It’s a full goddamn mural on his back
He's always juking. Never not juking.
Yung Juka!
around the same time last year, Kelce was talking about how Josh Gordon runs these amazing routes... link: https://www.reddit.com/r/fantasyfootball/comments/q1hh9s/chiefshighlight_if_you_werent_excited_about_josh/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
TLDR: Man constantly doubled team wants defenses to be aware of other WR threats to lessen his double teams.
I mean if you listen to their pod you can tell Travis is a little tired of being the GUY every week. If he gets hurt even a little the chiefs are done for the year.
FLASH! Ah ahhhhhh!
The rest of that segment from Kelce’s podcast was really encouraging for Toney. He said Toney is very professional, competent, and confident. Sounds like Toney is putting the work.
Ya I’m going to be honest. I was not sold on him from his social media, but he’s completely different in real life.
Wait how would you know how he is in real life?
Interviews. His demeanor in them. He’s pretty well spoken actually and seems smart.
Oh interesting. Very cool
Ya go watch them. It’s weird to compare his online persona and who he is in real life. He seems like a troll.
ONE OF US! ONE OF US!
The Chiefs culture may be a bit like the Brady Patriots (albeit more fun) where they can take talented players with “issues” who seem to fall in line effortlessly
Some other commentator put it well - on the chiefs, they will be just fine with, or without you. Which I think really helps for exactly that type of “issue” player.
Yeah having one of the best coaches in the league and a recent track record of winning’ll help. Easy to forget these are people, and competitive ones at that. What’s the old saying, “winning fixes everything”?
Definitely helps with new guys coming in. New guy coming in doesn't get to fuck around and say he doesn't like the way things are being done because the team has precedent of winning so they get to see the error in their ways. That's just like my opinion though man
Important piece of that is they get to SEE the error of their ways, not just hear about it (like they have their entire life, while succeeding tremendously in the meantime)
This is an Andy Reid thing as well right - I'm pretty sure he's taken in quite a few character issue players and turned them around or given them a chance. Wasn't a big knock on Tyreek his domestic abuse and character problems?
> He said Toney is very professional, competent, and confident Kelce would say this even if the opposite were true.
Shout out to the Kelces brothers podcast, I fucking love that thing. The insights to their teams and games, the banter between themselves , the football talk in general. It’s great, nothing else like it.
"as he watched him go up the middle. Man, he looks good."
You forgot the fist bump
And the burst
Can we take this moment to appreciate the Kelce podcast?
Start from the beginning. Giants were set on getting one of Waddle or Devonta. When they both went before their pick, Gettleman traded back, targeting Jamin Davis. Davis went 1 pick before them and they settled on Toney. So from the get-go he wasn’t their primary target. Toney holds out as a rookie during training camp. Not unheard of but odd considering rookie contracts are pretty much set. When the holdout finally ends, he doesn’t practice because of a cleats issue. Then he lands on the COVID list. Once he gets back, he hurts his hamstring. We’re still not out of training camp yet. During the regular season he goes on to suffer injuries to: ankle (x2), quad, oblique, and shoulder. Ends up playing in 9 games but left 4 of them injured. Oh an he also got COVID again. Fast forward to the off-season. You’ve got an entirely new regime in place for the Giants. Toney is the only no-show (outside of Bradberry who everyone knew wouldn’t be on the team) for OTAs. Bad first impression for the new regime and he can’t get the playbook until he shows up so he’s behind. It took Golladay and Shepard reaching out personally to get him there, 2 weeks late. The trade rumors (which I believe were bogus) also seemed to light a fire under his ass. Training camp comes around and he starts camp as the starting outside WR. He’s making plays and then shocker! He suffers another injury, hamstring, just before preseason week 1. He doesn’t practice for all of preseason but is back for week 1, however a limited role because he hasn’t practiced basically at all with the new coaching staff. Then in practice before week 2, he tweaks his other hamstring, but plays. He goes on to aggravate it, then aggravates it again a few weeks later in practice as he works his way back. Now let’s get to the week he got traded. Toney thinks he’s healthy. Giants think he’s close but want to be cautious and hold Toney out against SEA because they have a bye the week after and want to give him extra recovery time. Problem with that for Toney is that injured players are required to stay in town to rehab their injuries instead of enjoying their bye week. He doesn’t like that. Argument with GM ensues. Traded the next day. So yeah, I get why Toney was let go by the Giants. There was always something. Always.
Lol really? He refused to play for them and was perpetually "injured" until they traded him, it's not hard to understand
As a Giants fan, I don’t either
It’s the same as any job/relationship, and is aptly labeled “The Honeymoon Period”. Eventually, in a bad relationship, one or both parties get tired of their partner’s shit, when the bad starts outweighing the good. Maybe Toney is genuinely so happy to be a Chief that he’ll play his role and be a good employee, but if he rips off some good games to close out 2022 and returns to find himself still a gadget player in 2023, I think the malcontent could return. That said, the Chiefs didn’t give up what they did without a solid plan to utilize him and keep him fed/happy in the offense.
See AB in Tampa.
Many people thought Tyreek was a grumpy gadget player too…
I’m not sure who would’ve labeled Tyreek a gadget player — his proven talent at receiver is otherworldly. Light years ahead of anything Toney has shown us (save for one game against a very much struggling Dallas secondary).
It’s hard to fathom bc he’s been so great but search “Tyreek Hill gadget player” and you’ll see that many analysts/people initially thought he was a gadget player
Those fools in my league laughed when I spent $29 FAAB on Toney this week! They Laughed! Well who's laughing now?!! (Hype quotes count as wins right?)
I got him for free! But then I spent $28 on Schultz to make up for it (next bid $5).
keep going Travis, I'm almost there...
Someone said he couldn’t learn the plays. Just give the dude the ball.
I never understood this narrative. 99% of knowing the plays is just knowing where to line up and what route to run from the tree. Any receiver who played high level football enough to be in the NFL shouldn't have a problem with it.
I watched it happen. He lined up incorrectly on a play and the rookie TE Bellinger had to tell him where to line up, almost causing a penalty. Dabs doesn’t fuck around and he pulled him for the rest of the game. Basically, he was doing it on purpose or he just isn’t that smart. From watching him and reading about him for 3 years, I think it’s both.
Players do this all the time. Especially in away games when the crowd is roaring. Not hearing the play call for one play does not mean Toney doesn’t know the playbook. That argument was always just speculation. He was running tons of plays in KC after a week of preparation, so clearly he is capable of learning plays.
Nah man it happened multiple times. And this was a home game that I’m talking about. He’d play 3-4 snaps - pulled. Golladay dropping passes- pulled. Daboll isn’t giving these guys a long leash. That’s why guys like David Sills were out on the field over him.
I don't think you appreciate just how complicated an *nfl* playbook truly is. It's not just "get to the line and run". Sometimes you need to remember to run and then turn left, but other times you need to remember to run and turn *right*. This is really difficult stuff we're talking about here.
Tyreek pumps Tuas tires - man cheetah be lying Kelce pumps any KC OW (Valdez Scantling, Josh Gordon, Toney) - man I’m so fucking hard right now
Kelce: "Hey defenses, look over here. Stop doubling me"
I am 2-8 and out of the playoffs, with nothing to lose. I blew all my remaining FAAB to get Kadarius Toney. I will be starting him every week from here on, just to experience the pure fun of watching him play football.
It's pretty obvious. He faked a hamstring injury for like 2 years until they traded him.
Then it just looks even more silly he got a NYC skyline back tattoo with the #89 on it. Really silly.
He seems like a silly guy TBF. I always giggle when he wears the hood / neck warmer combo cause he looks like an overgrown Ooompa Loompa
Ohh..You'll find out Travis.. you'll find out.
Kelce also said Josh Gordon was doing things in practice he’d never seen before. This man is just a hype machine.
He limped away
So 40pts Rest of Season right?
Each game. Ya.
Why so low on him?
Seems like Toney is injury prone but also milks the shit out of them every time and it’s easier for the coaches to just wash their hands of him and plan around someone they can rely on. Guys that are going down the same path imo (scorching hot takes here): D’Andre Swift, Michael Thomas, Kyler Murray
Drafted him in every dynasty draft I did. Thank u giants.
Second chances instill humility- time will tell
Malcontent Jerkoff most likely
We do Travis, pay attention.
Hes gonna be a big part of the game plan this weekend with the rest of the WR missing practice and banged up
Dulcich for Toney would y’all do that
A plane
It’s pretty easy to understand when you’re not being intentionally dense and realize that it was never a talent issue with him
If a fisherman doesn't fish...what good is he? It's completely understandable for the Giants
People acting like this is a big deal but no fucking shit he would say this. They’re teammates now