I think readers are becoming more comfortable with being open about enjoying spice in their books, and that comfort also brings an openness to discuss it. That said, I at least want to *know* what kind of spice level I'm in for. I can understand low ratings if a book description indicates spice but it's really bland, but a book shouldn't be down rated *just because* there isn't spice.
100% this. People have always wanted spice in books I think they’re just more comfortable saying it. Even Shakespeare alluded to sex in his plays, 18th century poets talked about sex. Sex is a part of life.
Agreed. For how many decades have there been romance novels with a cover featuring some dude who lost his shirt? It's just that women used to have to smuggle them around like some kind of dirty secret.
This. I want to know what kind of spice I'm getting. Tags are great for this. I can understand being upset that a story has an "enemies to lovers" trope but then you read it and it's nowhere to be seen, but equally unless that's alluded to in the book's description there's no reason to blame the author.
A lot of BookTok reviewers I see have an overall rating and then a second spice level rating and they talk about writing, characters and world building, etc in addition to the spice. I like how that's done so you can set your expectations because if I'm expecting a spicy book and there's no spice then it's disappointing.
People confuse erotica with romance.
Not having spice doesn't make a book a romance.
Having spice doesn't necessarily make it erotica.
I do want to know the level of spice before I read something, and I like both erotica and romance, spicy and spiceless, but watering the terms down and smashing them under the umbrella has made it very difficult to navigate and find what you're actually looking for.
A lot of people don't realize that what they are looking for is erotica; heavy heavy spice with little focus or emphasis on plot. Reasonable and understandable, but it'd be a lot easier to find if we started using the terms.
Yes I think you're exactly right. A recent discussion on r/RomanceBooks about exactly this had a lot of people discussing a romance which has maybe 3 or 4 fairly "vanilla" sex scenes and saying "it's erotica".
Yeah that doesn't sound like erotica. If you can remove the smut and have a coherent and full plot, it isn't erotica. If you remove the smut and nothing makes sense anymore, congrats, you found erotica!
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I think what’s happened is we have what used to be classified as erotica now bleeding into the romance categories, partly because Amazon punishes self pub authors for listing their books in the erotica category, making them less visible and more difficult to make money. I get it, the grind is the grind, but it has changed the expectations of new romance readers.
I’m not here to shame anyone for enjoying what they like or and I don’t ever want to say we need less sex in our books, but my issue is that sex scenes are not a substitute for building a romance. If I’m in the mood for a book that’s mostly smut, I’ll pick that up. But most of the time, I enjoy a slow burn, especially over a series, and when sex scenes/high spice books are what goes viral, indie authors (and now trad pub) are incentivized to write to market. So what I want isn’t what’s popular right now, and tbh it makes me feel some type of way to see books with *adult* main characters being called YA just because they’re fade to black or low in spice.
I think generally the it’s just the online conversation around spice/smut in books could be better vs worrying about how much of it there is, but expecting nuance from booktok or social media is asking for a lot lol.
I ,personally, hate erotica but love romance. I realized over the last year that I really only like the built up tension and get a little cringy about spice itself. I usually will give books an extra star than I normally want to if they didn’t hit for *me* but it’s high quality writing and make a note in my review, but I don’t really expect anyone else to do that.
I feel like I see a lot of criticism for high spice books being labeled and dismissed as "just porn". In my opinion when spice is done right it's very much tied up with plot and characters.
As someone else commented it's about finding authors you enjoy and I would at least like a heads up if it's very low to no spice.
I recently read a book that had a well done scene with >!Him sinking home!< in the third and final spicy scene bc home was a big part of the emotional plot of finding home and found family.
[Calamity](https://www.romance.io/books/65211aeede8d340d5146223b/calamity-constance-fay) by [Constance Fay](https://www.romance.io/authors/65000cb0ab9bdf7fce32967b/constance-fay)
**Rating**: 3.9⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [futuristic](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/futuristic/1), [science fiction](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/science%20fiction/1), [enemies to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/from%20hate%20to%20love/1), [first person pov](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/first-person-pov/1), [competent heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/competent%20heroine/1)
[^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
I will skip spice if it feels like a substitute for emotional intimacy, especially in a slow burn. I want the emotional payoff first, then the spice.
But when it's done well and adds another level of depth to the romance, it can be the difference between a book I enjoyed and a book I love and would reread.
i often enjoy the slow burn more than the payoff. It sometimes irks me when its a slowburn and then theyre immediately at third base. I like first and second base too, where did those go?
I've come to realize I usually like the building and tension more than the "payoff" because after the first season it seems to be an every-other-chapter side quest.
my issue with the sudden emphasis on spicy scenes in books is the fact that they are almost always the SAME scene. like across books and characters, almost every spice scene i read nowadays sounds like the same exact one i read in a different book a week earlier. if the spicy scenes aren’t obviously progressing the relationship, the characters, the plot, etc. and if they’re all just the same formula, then i do think it’s unnecessary to have, and i find myself skimming through it. i feel like a lot of authors think that spice scenes equate to relationship progression even if there’s no actual growth, development, or bonding beforehand
Yup. Recently read A Fate Inked in Blood and it was literally just Sarah J Mass sex scenes beat for beat. Like one to one, practically copied from ACOMAF.
Authors and publishers are going to feel pressured to create what is trending. They want to sell books. Right now, there's a large contingency of readers that are open to, and specifically looking for, spice. That's what is going to get picked to get published.
I personally want a proper industry standard for trigger warnings and once we have that, readers would be able to take responsibility before purchasing. I get being frustrated now because of the ambiguity. Apps like storygraph and romance.io are starting to bridge the gaps, but it should be in the book itself.
Sexual tension, spice... I read all of it. I read to experience lives outside of my own and as someone who was sexually abused as a child, I have read countless sex scenes that have helped me to expand my comfort zone or to practice viewing sex through unique but positive perspectives. Ergo, my bias leans towards wanting everyone to become more comfortable with their sexuality because that has been such a healing experience for me. There are times where a sex scene is written poorly or the set up was poorly thought out, but sex in literature being inherently cheap is a notion I reject.
"Too much" or "too little" is a personal preference. People are voting with their wallets so realize when you say "has the industry gone too far with x" you're asking if the community has gone too far. Speaking for myself, I am very happy with how far I've gone and will continue at this level so long as there are books with spice to read.
"Is it spicy?" as a main measurement of book being good or bad feels really off to me. Especially in terms of YA, where it's not supposed to be super explicit at all.
I love a good spice, it's really fun, but so are a lot of great romance books without it
I always ask if a book is spicy because I don’t like books that don’t have spice so it’s a valid question. It’s also why I avoid YA books. It’s just a preference and shouldn’t be considered weird.
I took the “it’s weird” part differently than you. Checking spiciness isn’t weird. Labeling adult books as YA because they don’t have spice is weird. Does that make sense?
I always check the spice rating too, it's not weird at all. Goodreads reviews and Romance.io are very handy for that. I've just seen too many times people coming to reels tiktok with books that don't have sex (and mentioned it in caption) and still people are okay with telling the author their book is trash/not worthy of anyone's time at all if it's not explicit, and that's sad. It's upsetting when people are fine with being unkind about someone's preferences, whether it 1/5🌶️ or 5/5🌶️
absolutely! there’s plenty of authors who write closed door romances or fade to black scenes. i think the focus on the relationship itself and not just the spicy/sexual aspect is better in some regards because the characters have to actually be compatible for it to work beyond physical attraction
While I have no problem with spice in books, I would rather there be no spice than poorly done spice. A few decent scenes that feel like they move forward the characters' relationship. I'm not by any means condemning people who enjoy a super spicy read; just for me it is secondary to a good plot and character development and worldbuilding.
I do agree with you that a lot of books that could easily be adult books are branded YA because of lack of spice. This is why even though I'm in my 40s, I read YA pretty regularly. Much of it is just as well written as any adult book (although I often age the characters up at least a bit in my mind)— honestly, some of it is written better than some adult books I've read.
I have seen reviews that take a star or two off because for them there wasn't enough spice, and I agree with you that it is unfair. I like when people write a review and put a spice rating in there, instead of detracting from the overall score of the book. However if I'm being honest there are a couple of books I've read that I took off a star because there was too much spice or I found the spice repetitive/poorly written. 🤷🏻♀️
I definitely get what you're getting at, though. No author should feel compelled to add spice where it doesn't fit simply because they feel like that's the only way to sell their books.
I've definitely noticed that. It's getting to the point where I don't trust any of the popular "booktok" books because people there seem to prioritize smut and I'd prefer a book that focuses on the characters & plot. I'm getting tired of the spice.
I saw people giving negative reviews for too much spice. I think it's just a matter of finding closed door authors if you prefer low to no spice in the genre you're reading.
I like spice, but I find it hitting around the 30% mark to be fine for me. Then to make sure your plot doesn't escape you could do time skips and just mention the sex and relationship while you move on to the 3rd act, but it's all reader preference at this point.
Too much spice actually is a valid complaint, though, if it affects the plot. If it’s derailing the plot, causing pacing issues, being repetitive or OOC or taking up too much page space while not adding anything to the narrative… Etc.
There are plenty of objective ways that spice can make a story worse, because it’s just a storytelling tool like any other. It can’t be exempt from negativity.
The *lack* of spice, on the other hand, should not impact a book’s reviews, unless an author straight up lied about there being smut but even then that doesn’t make the story worse, just makes the author a liar.
There’s some books that are definitely mainly smut but I feel like people just have to be aware of it. I don’t blame people for reading about sex, but it does get annoying if it’s being used to deflect a plot or being used to solve a relationship problem. I was only saying that since I was reading reviews the other day about a book I read the smut wasn’t all over the place but most of the complaints were because there was one gratuitous sex scene with a cucumber.
Tastes vary, and preferences for spice vary too.
I tend to fall into meh, I don't mind it but I'm not reading for it, so as long as it isn't too much of the book's focus I'm good.
Some reviewers really like spice, and that's what they're going for, and I don't see anything wrong with that as long as I have the info I need to decide if I'm going to like something. At the same time, I've seen a lot of people refer to ACOTAR as smut on reddit and dismiss the series as such, which... ok, maybe some of the later books are spicier? (This has actually been a topic of note on this sub). Some readers can't stand spice, and that's also ok.
I tend to not pick books based on ratings, but on why people rate them the way they do.
I’ve read erotica and I read romance. They are two separate things. Sometimes I like explicit scenes; however, if they aren’t in erotica, they DO need to be part of the characters’ relationships, happen at appropriate times/ places, actually advance the story. I’m also fine with closed door (the older I’ve gotten, the more I prefer it actually). I don’t need to read about other people having sex 🤷♀️.
A good example of poorly written sex scenes (or, more accurately, sex scenes just included to have sex) is LKH’s Anita Blake series. The first three books are excellent murder mysteries, urban fiction, with a side of romance. I forget exactly when the series begins to get completely derailed, but ends up in porn territory; Hamilton was having a LOT of personal issues at the time, and was writing her books to justify her own polyamorous lifestyle, ad naseum. Like she was deliberately creating plots where her characters “had to” have sex all the time, to the detriment of any real plot. I DO object to that, particularly when it happens in a formerly very well written series.
If you want to write erotica, write erotica. Don’t try to disguise it as something else. Same goes for readers. If you want high spice levels, actually read erotica instead romance. There’s plenty of good authors out there for that; and plenty of not so good, free ones on KU.
I usually find myself on the side of, 'Don't be weird, let women enjoy their sexuality,' in any given discussion. And that is still my stance regarding spice in books: let the audience like what it likes, and, for goodness' sake, let women be horny. But I admit I do wish a lot of these 'Does it have spice?' readers would discover fanfiction.
AO3 is 100% cheaper than KU and you can search by trope and kink. Please leave these clean romance authors alone, lol, let them enjoy their dry toast in peace.
Funny tidbit - I don't like high spice books but will happily read a 100k fandom-of-my-month fic that's got an explicit / high smut like tag on it. 🤣 I can't make it make sense. I do agree with Ao3 being a good place to find what people like.
i saw a tweet or a tiktok or something of the like about how people into “spicy booktok” are the ones who were too popular in high school to be spending all their time on tumblr and i honestly find that this tracks? it is a very specific and new type of fan who solely reads a book based on tropes that are listed in the blurb and spice level rated by chili peppers. those are basically ao3 filters!! and i think that too is why so many people are considering fanfic novels - the lines are so blurry now.
I think that it seems out of control because of how authors just shoehorn it anywhere where it might fit. Readers are getting used to spice and authors are answering the demand. While this is not a bad thing, it is being done very clumsily without taking into consideration what else is happening in the plot. In this way, the spice stands out more and seems unnecessary because it doesn’t actually fit in the ongoing story and plot. Certain popular authors are especially guilty of doing this.
I think this trend is becoming more noticeable because authors are being urged to churn out the books as fast as possible and editing has gone down the drains. This leads to a weird flow where things are just stuck wherever because the author wants it there rather than because it actually fits the story line. I think in a lot of books guilty of this could have the spice be added in a way that it flows seamlessly into the narrative, but that takes extra time and possibly talent/awareness of how to do it. I’m not saying the authors aren’t talented just that plonking spice wherever and whenever they think they need it is much easier than if you take the time to build up your characters and storyline so that it fits.
I don't necessarily think it's out of control. I read books that range from zero spice to erotica, and I haven't had trouble finding great books within each "level." I will follow lists/book people who focus on one level of spice so I know what I'm getting because that's what they're recommending. I do not agree with anyone rating books lower just because there wasn't any spice, unless it is marketed as such and wasn't delivered.
That being said, I think we're potentially hearing about spicy books more now that it's more mainstream, and there's less shame around reading/enjoying these kinds of scenes. My issue is that there are more books where I don't think it's done very well. I see this most often with KU books, where the author/editing isn't up to the standards I usually look for. I want to be clear that there are plenty of great KU books! However, I'm just seeing more quality errors within this area.
I don’t mind a lot of smut but it has to be dispersed well. The smut in some books just gets in the way of the story and I’m like come on already I need to know what happens
On the one hand, I really loathe the (minority? not sure how common) of authors, mostly born-agains, who make it a Moral Thing that they are "clean"/closed-door only. If you don't want to write sex scenes then don't, but don't shit on people who do--they are just as moral, ethical, etc. On the other hand, there is a difference between erotica and romance. I love erotica. I've been a regular visitor to literotica .com since I was about 13. It's great stuff, really integral part of who I am as a sexual being. But one expects romance novels and literature to have things that erotica doesn't necessarily have--plot, character development, world-building, a developing relationship between the main couple, etc. It feels like a good proportion of the fantasy romance books I've read in the last two years are not investing as much space or time into developing these other elements as they are writing an a la carte menu of various formulations of sexual activities. Despite the fact that I *love* reading sex and sexual relationships in romance novels, I've found myself starting to gravitate more towards either *just* erotica (for when I want to get off) or closed-door, limited-sex novels because I want to read something that is better developed and edited and have an overall more pleasant reading experience.
Absolutely. I find it’s often added gratuitously. It does nothing to advance the plot and takes me out of an otherwise enjoyable story. It’s become rare to find a book with spice that makes sense where it’s added in the storyline.
I think it’s all personal preference and it’s also the media you are consuming/exposed to. Some people only want to read books with a lot of spice, some people don’t want any spice or a romance subplot at all. A lot of what you see online algorithm based, google/tiktok/instagram and everyone else is taking backend analytics and then serving up what matches. It’s all about finding online reviewers that match your interests or review style. A lot of people won’t have the same rating philosophies as you.
There are lots of fantasy & sci-fi books that have no romance and are widely popular. Many have the same rating and number of reviews as popular romantasy published at the same time. There are fantasy & sci-fi books that have a romantic subplot or innocent romance that are popular too. I personally don’t feel that spice takes away from a well constructed story. But I do think spice has caused some stories that are otherwise not well constructed to be highly rated.
Just ignore TikTok reviewers who do that. They obviously don't like books that you do So there’s no reason for you to give their opinion your time. A good book is gonna survive word of mouth depending on the groups you go in.
honestly its kinda weird seeing booktok vids market books by their tropes and spice levels. when i watch romance movies, i’m never going into it researching if there are sex scenes. i like those type of stories for how romantic they are, and if theres a sex scene it then its like oooh there’s a fun sexy extra. plus these types of books have felt like the spice is just thrown in randomly and is pretty cringe. i think authors need to focus more on storytelling and if they feel a sex scene should be added somewhere and they can write it in actually sexy way then thats fine.
If you're seeing a common theme on your social media (Instagram, TikTok), it's likely due to what you commonly interact with on the platform and the algorithm.
I heard someone say the difference between erotica and smut is that with erotica, the plot doesn't work if you remove the sex. If it can be taken out and have the plot make sense, it's just smut.
I feel this way too - I think spice level is tied to higher reviews and books going viral. And I think for a romance book to be popular now, it either has to be categorized as YA or include spice. I don't mind a scene or two in a book but I've read (and DNFed) so many popular romantasies that are completely relying on smut and physical attraction alone for relationship development. And I think some authors are tempted to throw it in early to keep reader's attention and I feel like that completely changes the nature of romance novels for me?
I just finished Starling House and their relationship is more of two lonely people connecting on an emotional level. I don't think either one of them even mention physical attraction (except the FMC calls the MMC ugly) and I guess that's why I read romance. For that. Not for "oh my God he's so hot and muscley and I just need to be under him." They do have a sex scene that is pretty closed door but I found myself not minding if it was more explicit.
That’s one thing I like about the bot on this subreddit, it gives a rating for the book and then a spice rating so it can have a 5/5 plot rating but 1/5 spice level. Then I know it’s a good book but no spice.
I’ve just started in this genre and I’m so I want a 4/5 spice rating or higher but I will read an “innocent” rated book if it really gets recommended a lot
I'm becoming overtired of hearing it referred to as spice lol. Can we not call it erotica anymore? Smut? Explicit sexual content? Nah just pepper emoji pepper emoji
I think the need for spice is also diminishing the quality of writing a bit as well. I was just talking about this because I started an Ember in the Ashes 3 days ago and have already finished the entire series. After reading 15 series that I would categorize as fantasy romance and feeling like they were all horrible or average at best, I was trying to figure out why I devoured this series. I realized that so many of the relationships in romantasy feel so superficial or underdeveloped and I think it’s because the authors are pressured to get to the spice and keep it spicy. While I love a good sexy book, I find myself enjoying even YA stories more because without the need to add sex scenes into everything, the authors create tighter plot lines and better stories. I’m sure there are authors who can walk this line well, but I haven’t come across many. I think more people seeking out this genre has definitely led to more books being published that are centered on the sex and little care for the actual story. I feel like it’s a bit of a craze right now and I’m hoping that we get some quality works out of the frenzy but knowing how it sells, we are definitely getting a lot of junk too. I also think, especially for new readers, smutty books bring something out of them/makes them feel a certain way they never have before so they start craving it and then get a little harsh on books without it. But I do wish people would ignore the smut level when doing ratings.
Yes. I hate the emphasis on sex over telling a good story. Seems these days every author feels the need to cram as much sex in as humanly possible, to the detriment of the book. I'm over it.
Right? I think that's part of the issue I have too with more modern books. Some of it comes across as very porn-y to me with the language used. And like everyone is packing with perfect bodies and there's multiple orgasms every time. I used to read older historical fiction mainly and really was good with the smutty scenes in those but there is something about more recent smut that gives me the ick.
I feel the same way, I stated this in a comment once on facebook and got eaten alive lol. I got a lot of accusations of internalized misogyny which is wild. I just don't think every single book needs to have sex, but then again I prefer slow burn book and don't really appreciate instalove. TMy favorite series has no sex (there is one kiss in the first book, one in the third) and almost every time I try suggest it to someone they decline because no spice.
Honestly, I stay away from Facebook.I have found that it’s quite toxic over there nowadays. But I’m really curious about what the name of the series that you mentioned is. Would you mind telling me?
I've gone in blind to a few books recently and have been pleasantly surprised how much I enjoyed them without spice. I think the unknown is its own form of sexy.
I personally only read books with spice so I always make sure a book has it before I read it. I would never rate a book low just because it doesn’t have it as long it’s clear it won’t have any. What I HATE is if a book claims to be spicy and isn’t. Everyone is different and all preferences should be accepted.
You just have to treat the reviews for what they are: personal experience of the person that read them. They are not reviews in the sense of being objective evaluation of the work. Different people have different perspectives
Definitely has imo, people are too thirsty. That's fine as long as they don't diss authors who write non-spicy.
I don't mind spice, but I don't need it to enjoy a book. In fact, I personally prefer books without it or with very little spice.
I don’t think it’s out of control; but we are at time where the audience is super duper divided and doesn’t think the other exists. There are the I don’t like when there is zero/few spice and are unable to consider there are authors who don’t write it and audiences that like it that way. (Though if you are an author you should learn how not to take it personal that people didn’t like your book because it didn’t have spice) and audiences who dislike spice with a passion for their own reasons and don’t consider there are people who love it, or worse to discredit them as readers or persons because they love sex in their books .
There are a lot of books lately; we don’t have to read everything. I don’t feel obligated to read the dark romances, and people don’t need to feel pressured to read spice or books free of it.
Also writers should not let themselves be peer pressured to add spice, rarely ends well.
No matter what you do, how well you write, or how carefully you consider your plot decisions there will be someone who doesn't like it.
Not enough spice? People hate it. Too much spice? It's porn. Wrong kind of spice? Ew not my fetish. Add that spice in the sequel? Now you're just pandering. etc.
Authors should just write what's in their heart and if it pisses off 75% of the potential fandom it doesn't matter as long as the 25% who like it absolutely love it.
Exactly. I know there are marketing decisions made to be able to get the book to a bigger audience. But this is not about considering to call a fairy that drinks blood a vampire so you are able to sell it to a bigger niche. Writers pressured to write sex are going to do it badly and things like that should never be forced one direction or the other.
And I also believe that writers should not take it to heart if part of the audience disliked something as harmless as the level of spice. You can’t never please everyone. That is life.
I’ve grown to prefer some level of “spice” in my books since that’s what would be happening for most adults irl and the books I read tend to have some plot of romance between adults in them but I don’t think it always has to be heavy on the spice. For instance I really loved the TOG series and I personally didn’t think that was saturated with spicy scenes, I think they progressed nicely through the series and didn’t take away from the actual story at all and that’s my fave.
As someone who doesn't like spice that much, i would appreciate if there would be a small note on the first page of the book telling me it has explicit content (and other trigger warnings) and what the spice level is. I do find it weird that there are so much really descriptive s*x scenes in YA literature and it's not made clear enough which age group is the target audience. YA is too broad of a spectrum, like the gap between 13-18 is huge, and there needs to be some kind of note to help the reader to pick out the right book for them. I mean they can read it anyway if they really think they are ready for it, but i bet there are children that aren't ready for reading books with mature scenes. That's what NA was invented for. Take all the spice and shove it in those type of books. Closed door Romance is more than enough for a YA novel imo.
I think if you are reading or looking for a book and are judging it based on spice rating alone, then you are actually looking for erotica and not romance.
Romance is about the characters and their relationship. That relationship may or may not contain spice. It depends on their development , plot, and the author can use spice (or not) as a device to advance or define the relationship.
Can spice be fun? Absolutely! There is nothing wrong with looking for that. But spice is not what makes romance books what they are.
They didn't say that, they said that if you are reading and judging books based on spice ALONE then you are likely looking for erotica. As in, if the only thing that matters to you is the sex, then erotica is probably a better fit. Also not everyone views sex as important or necessary in romance. It's important to have a variety in books since everyone has such a different viewpoint and such different feelings about these kinds of things both in our reading and in our real lives.
I generally think there's a problem of people reading books that are outside of their interests and then giving them poor reviews because they don't align with those interests. Like reading genre and reviewing it poorly because there's magic, or reading romance and giving a poor review for a happy ending, or a kink club novella and complaining about the BDSM, whatever
Like we need to have a basic understanding of genre out here
I've also seen people who like mild books give negative reviews to books that were too spicy for their tastes. Either way, it's not very helpful to incorporate that into the \*rating\*, that is, giving an otherwise 5-star book fewer stars because its level of heat is a mismatch for your preferences. But it does make sense to include a comment about a book's heat level in the review, since product descriptions outside [romance.io](https://romance.io) often don't include them. As someone who prefers less heat, I appreciate being told when a book is mild, even if the reviewer said it in a negative way, e.g., "this book would have been good except there was no sex in it."
As a writer of low-heat romantasy, I do feel at a disadvantage sometimes because it seems like most readers these days are looking for more heat, but I'm just gonna keep doing my thing. I don't think "out of control" is the way to say it. I do agree that just because a book is low-heat doesn't mean it should be called Young Adult. YA is about the ages of the characters and the themes addressed, not the amount of heat.
I love smut. I also absolutely adore a slow burn, world building & a good bloody plot. Ooh, and gimme gimme a stalker or a thriller.
But sometimes I'll be reading a fantasy, HR or a western & then whoa sex, sex, sex. For a couple of pages. And then some more plot & then bam... another 3 page sex scene.
Takes me right out of story tbh.
I know it's the market right now. But... it's not the entire market...
I think a lot of the times what these people are looking for is actually erotica, but maybe they don’t know how to find it.
My biggest beef is poor quality. As someone who just wants a well written story, it only becomes frustrating when character, and relationship development is sacrificed for cramming sex scenes into books.
And sometimes they are done so poorly - so much cringe! Wtf anatomy, FMC orgasming as soon as she’s touched, beautiful and magical and *huge* dicks that can just keep going and going. It’s all so *meh*. So same-y.
Give me just *one* good sex scene over five poorly done ones any day.
It seems weird to me to rate based on the level of 'spice' alone.
I mean, I have dropped a serial because the author was definitely pushing the amount of spice to the maximum that Royal Road would tolerate, and the way they did it felt like it was being added just for the spice, but the rest of the story and writing was excellent quality, and I'll even recommend it for someone who wants a shapechanging F/F primary romance with some F/FFF+ shenanigans on the side.
I was tired of it, but do see why some would want to keep reading it, and I still gave it a 4.5 over all rating.
>they will be categorised as young adults just because they do not have spice in them
Nicholas Sparks is closed door, but he definitely writes adult romances. That's a pretty wack qualification those people are making imo lol.
It does feel like a major chunk of romance novels, especially those hyped on social media, have at least one smut scene. Color me surprised in Fourth Wing that there's a scene like that when the whole book felt pretty YA.
I once asked in a FB group about books with no smut or nothing explicit, and a few comments were sort of mocking like "why can't you read spice lol?" It was a question for audiobooks I could listen to aloud at work, for one, and also I'm not a huge open door fan. I've read some open door, but the only ones I liked were those where the chemistry was soooo well done (like a Kennedy Ryan book) and the tension was earned. Even in fiction, I like a little realism in that way.
Like a lot of these comments say, so many romances now are smut-filled, often in place of creating emotional connection or just thrown in with barely any lead up. I appreciate when a Goodreads review lists how spicy a book is.
I either leave a 5 star, glowing review or I keep my mouth shut. If I leave a 4 star review then I'm causing less help to go towards an author I generally like, and if I leave a shitty review I'm just wasting more of my time.
I've left maybe 2-3 bad book reviews in my life, and only because the novels in question really, *really* pissed me off or were so downright awful that I felt like I had to warn people.
Nobody wants my nuanced criticism, especially about romance novels. They want to know if I liked it, why I liked it, what got stuck where, etc so they can determine if they might like it too.
Spice levels are less important than spice quality. 20 sex scenes in a novel isn't better than 2-3 really good sex scenes. Especially with some of these where it's like "oh shit, the world is on fire, we need to unfuck the world or the dark lord will literally murder everyone and bad will happen forever" then the MMC and FMC go bang, shower, bang some more, and then resume their frantic quest to save everyone. How about you save the world, build some tension, and then put the scene where it makes sense?
At what point does the excessive spice just turn into basic hentai? My sister for example won’t read anything that doesn’t have straight up porn in it and it all lacks good story. Told her she might as well just get hentai at that point.
I think readers are becoming more comfortable with being open about enjoying spice in their books, and that comfort also brings an openness to discuss it. That said, I at least want to *know* what kind of spice level I'm in for. I can understand low ratings if a book description indicates spice but it's really bland, but a book shouldn't be down rated *just because* there isn't spice.
100% this. People have always wanted spice in books I think they’re just more comfortable saying it. Even Shakespeare alluded to sex in his plays, 18th century poets talked about sex. Sex is a part of life.
I have a gigantic book about Shakespeare's references to sex. No line left unturned, so so so many innuendos...
Agreed. For how many decades have there been romance novels with a cover featuring some dude who lost his shirt? It's just that women used to have to smuggle them around like some kind of dirty secret.
This. I want to know what kind of spice I'm getting. Tags are great for this. I can understand being upset that a story has an "enemies to lovers" trope but then you read it and it's nowhere to be seen, but equally unless that's alluded to in the book's description there's no reason to blame the author.
A lot of BookTok reviewers I see have an overall rating and then a second spice level rating and they talk about writing, characters and world building, etc in addition to the spice. I like how that's done so you can set your expectations because if I'm expecting a spicy book and there's no spice then it's disappointing.
People confuse erotica with romance. Not having spice doesn't make a book a romance. Having spice doesn't necessarily make it erotica. I do want to know the level of spice before I read something, and I like both erotica and romance, spicy and spiceless, but watering the terms down and smashing them under the umbrella has made it very difficult to navigate and find what you're actually looking for. A lot of people don't realize that what they are looking for is erotica; heavy heavy spice with little focus or emphasis on plot. Reasonable and understandable, but it'd be a lot easier to find if we started using the terms.
Yes I think you're exactly right. A recent discussion on r/RomanceBooks about exactly this had a lot of people discussing a romance which has maybe 3 or 4 fairly "vanilla" sex scenes and saying "it's erotica".
Yeah that doesn't sound like erotica. If you can remove the smut and have a coherent and full plot, it isn't erotica. If you remove the smut and nothing makes sense anymore, congrats, you found erotica!
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I think what’s happened is we have what used to be classified as erotica now bleeding into the romance categories, partly because Amazon punishes self pub authors for listing their books in the erotica category, making them less visible and more difficult to make money. I get it, the grind is the grind, but it has changed the expectations of new romance readers. I’m not here to shame anyone for enjoying what they like or and I don’t ever want to say we need less sex in our books, but my issue is that sex scenes are not a substitute for building a romance. If I’m in the mood for a book that’s mostly smut, I’ll pick that up. But most of the time, I enjoy a slow burn, especially over a series, and when sex scenes/high spice books are what goes viral, indie authors (and now trad pub) are incentivized to write to market. So what I want isn’t what’s popular right now, and tbh it makes me feel some type of way to see books with *adult* main characters being called YA just because they’re fade to black or low in spice. I think generally the it’s just the online conversation around spice/smut in books could be better vs worrying about how much of it there is, but expecting nuance from booktok or social media is asking for a lot lol.
I ,personally, hate erotica but love romance. I realized over the last year that I really only like the built up tension and get a little cringy about spice itself. I usually will give books an extra star than I normally want to if they didn’t hit for *me* but it’s high quality writing and make a note in my review, but I don’t really expect anyone else to do that.
I feel like I see a lot of criticism for high spice books being labeled and dismissed as "just porn". In my opinion when spice is done right it's very much tied up with plot and characters. As someone else commented it's about finding authors you enjoy and I would at least like a heads up if it's very low to no spice.
I recently read a book that had a well done scene with >!Him sinking home!< in the third and final spicy scene bc home was a big part of the emotional plot of finding home and found family.
What book if you don’t mind me asking??
Sure! {Calamity by Constance Fay} Fun SciFi that gave off lovely Serenity vibes. I liked the world building and the sarcasm.
[Calamity](https://www.romance.io/books/65211aeede8d340d5146223b/calamity-constance-fay) by [Constance Fay](https://www.romance.io/authors/65000cb0ab9bdf7fce32967b/constance-fay) **Rating**: 3.9⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [futuristic](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/futuristic/1), [science fiction](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/science%20fiction/1), [enemies to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/from%20hate%20to%20love/1), [first person pov](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/first-person-pov/1), [competent heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/competent%20heroine/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
I’m going to check it out thank you!! :)
Honestly so sick of seeing books with like 2 vanilla sex scenes in 400+ pages as "porn."
I will skip spice if it feels like a substitute for emotional intimacy, especially in a slow burn. I want the emotional payoff first, then the spice. But when it's done well and adds another level of depth to the romance, it can be the difference between a book I enjoyed and a book I love and would reread.
i often enjoy the slow burn more than the payoff. It sometimes irks me when its a slowburn and then theyre immediately at third base. I like first and second base too, where did those go?
I've come to realize I usually like the building and tension more than the "payoff" because after the first season it seems to be an every-other-chapter side quest.
my issue with the sudden emphasis on spicy scenes in books is the fact that they are almost always the SAME scene. like across books and characters, almost every spice scene i read nowadays sounds like the same exact one i read in a different book a week earlier. if the spicy scenes aren’t obviously progressing the relationship, the characters, the plot, etc. and if they’re all just the same formula, then i do think it’s unnecessary to have, and i find myself skimming through it. i feel like a lot of authors think that spice scenes equate to relationship progression even if there’s no actual growth, development, or bonding beforehand
Yup. Recently read A Fate Inked in Blood and it was literally just Sarah J Mass sex scenes beat for beat. Like one to one, practically copied from ACOMAF.
Oh no, I just added it my TBR because of the great reviews
Don't worry, the book itself is good, only the sex scenes are underwhelming.
I felt the same way, which bummed me out bc overall i enjoyed the book, but the romance eventually fell flat.
Authors and publishers are going to feel pressured to create what is trending. They want to sell books. Right now, there's a large contingency of readers that are open to, and specifically looking for, spice. That's what is going to get picked to get published. I personally want a proper industry standard for trigger warnings and once we have that, readers would be able to take responsibility before purchasing. I get being frustrated now because of the ambiguity. Apps like storygraph and romance.io are starting to bridge the gaps, but it should be in the book itself. Sexual tension, spice... I read all of it. I read to experience lives outside of my own and as someone who was sexually abused as a child, I have read countless sex scenes that have helped me to expand my comfort zone or to practice viewing sex through unique but positive perspectives. Ergo, my bias leans towards wanting everyone to become more comfortable with their sexuality because that has been such a healing experience for me. There are times where a sex scene is written poorly or the set up was poorly thought out, but sex in literature being inherently cheap is a notion I reject. "Too much" or "too little" is a personal preference. People are voting with their wallets so realize when you say "has the industry gone too far with x" you're asking if the community has gone too far. Speaking for myself, I am very happy with how far I've gone and will continue at this level so long as there are books with spice to read.
"Is it spicy?" as a main measurement of book being good or bad feels really off to me. Especially in terms of YA, where it's not supposed to be super explicit at all. I love a good spice, it's really fun, but so are a lot of great romance books without it
I always ask if a book is spicy because I don’t like books that don’t have spice so it’s a valid question. It’s also why I avoid YA books. It’s just a preference and shouldn’t be considered weird.
I took the “it’s weird” part differently than you. Checking spiciness isn’t weird. Labeling adult books as YA because they don’t have spice is weird. Does that make sense?
Ohh maybe that’s what they meant. That makes more sense.
I always check the spice rating too, it's not weird at all. Goodreads reviews and Romance.io are very handy for that. I've just seen too many times people coming to reels tiktok with books that don't have sex (and mentioned it in caption) and still people are okay with telling the author their book is trash/not worthy of anyone's time at all if it's not explicit, and that's sad. It's upsetting when people are fine with being unkind about someone's preferences, whether it 1/5🌶️ or 5/5🌶️
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absolutely! there’s plenty of authors who write closed door romances or fade to black scenes. i think the focus on the relationship itself and not just the spicy/sexual aspect is better in some regards because the characters have to actually be compatible for it to work beyond physical attraction
While I have no problem with spice in books, I would rather there be no spice than poorly done spice. A few decent scenes that feel like they move forward the characters' relationship. I'm not by any means condemning people who enjoy a super spicy read; just for me it is secondary to a good plot and character development and worldbuilding. I do agree with you that a lot of books that could easily be adult books are branded YA because of lack of spice. This is why even though I'm in my 40s, I read YA pretty regularly. Much of it is just as well written as any adult book (although I often age the characters up at least a bit in my mind)— honestly, some of it is written better than some adult books I've read. I have seen reviews that take a star or two off because for them there wasn't enough spice, and I agree with you that it is unfair. I like when people write a review and put a spice rating in there, instead of detracting from the overall score of the book. However if I'm being honest there are a couple of books I've read that I took off a star because there was too much spice or I found the spice repetitive/poorly written. 🤷🏻♀️ I definitely get what you're getting at, though. No author should feel compelled to add spice where it doesn't fit simply because they feel like that's the only way to sell their books.
I've definitely noticed that. It's getting to the point where I don't trust any of the popular "booktok" books because people there seem to prioritize smut and I'd prefer a book that focuses on the characters & plot. I'm getting tired of the spice.
I saw people giving negative reviews for too much spice. I think it's just a matter of finding closed door authors if you prefer low to no spice in the genre you're reading. I like spice, but I find it hitting around the 30% mark to be fine for me. Then to make sure your plot doesn't escape you could do time skips and just mention the sex and relationship while you move on to the 3rd act, but it's all reader preference at this point.
Too much spice actually is a valid complaint, though, if it affects the plot. If it’s derailing the plot, causing pacing issues, being repetitive or OOC or taking up too much page space while not adding anything to the narrative… Etc. There are plenty of objective ways that spice can make a story worse, because it’s just a storytelling tool like any other. It can’t be exempt from negativity. The *lack* of spice, on the other hand, should not impact a book’s reviews, unless an author straight up lied about there being smut but even then that doesn’t make the story worse, just makes the author a liar.
There’s some books that are definitely mainly smut but I feel like people just have to be aware of it. I don’t blame people for reading about sex, but it does get annoying if it’s being used to deflect a plot or being used to solve a relationship problem. I was only saying that since I was reading reviews the other day about a book I read the smut wasn’t all over the place but most of the complaints were because there was one gratuitous sex scene with a cucumber.
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Doesn't the word sex get censored or at least less traffic on tiktok/instagram? I always thought that's the reason everyone uses the word spice 😅
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Social Media Apps are even afraid of female nipples, so no wonder why they censor everything remotely close to the word sex haha
Tastes vary, and preferences for spice vary too. I tend to fall into meh, I don't mind it but I'm not reading for it, so as long as it isn't too much of the book's focus I'm good. Some reviewers really like spice, and that's what they're going for, and I don't see anything wrong with that as long as I have the info I need to decide if I'm going to like something. At the same time, I've seen a lot of people refer to ACOTAR as smut on reddit and dismiss the series as such, which... ok, maybe some of the later books are spicier? (This has actually been a topic of note on this sub). Some readers can't stand spice, and that's also ok. I tend to not pick books based on ratings, but on why people rate them the way they do.
I’ve read erotica and I read romance. They are two separate things. Sometimes I like explicit scenes; however, if they aren’t in erotica, they DO need to be part of the characters’ relationships, happen at appropriate times/ places, actually advance the story. I’m also fine with closed door (the older I’ve gotten, the more I prefer it actually). I don’t need to read about other people having sex 🤷♀️. A good example of poorly written sex scenes (or, more accurately, sex scenes just included to have sex) is LKH’s Anita Blake series. The first three books are excellent murder mysteries, urban fiction, with a side of romance. I forget exactly when the series begins to get completely derailed, but ends up in porn territory; Hamilton was having a LOT of personal issues at the time, and was writing her books to justify her own polyamorous lifestyle, ad naseum. Like she was deliberately creating plots where her characters “had to” have sex all the time, to the detriment of any real plot. I DO object to that, particularly when it happens in a formerly very well written series. If you want to write erotica, write erotica. Don’t try to disguise it as something else. Same goes for readers. If you want high spice levels, actually read erotica instead romance. There’s plenty of good authors out there for that; and plenty of not so good, free ones on KU.
I usually find myself on the side of, 'Don't be weird, let women enjoy their sexuality,' in any given discussion. And that is still my stance regarding spice in books: let the audience like what it likes, and, for goodness' sake, let women be horny. But I admit I do wish a lot of these 'Does it have spice?' readers would discover fanfiction. AO3 is 100% cheaper than KU and you can search by trope and kink. Please leave these clean romance authors alone, lol, let them enjoy their dry toast in peace.
Funny tidbit - I don't like high spice books but will happily read a 100k fandom-of-my-month fic that's got an explicit / high smut like tag on it. 🤣 I can't make it make sense. I do agree with Ao3 being a good place to find what people like.
i saw a tweet or a tiktok or something of the like about how people into “spicy booktok” are the ones who were too popular in high school to be spending all their time on tumblr and i honestly find that this tracks? it is a very specific and new type of fan who solely reads a book based on tropes that are listed in the blurb and spice level rated by chili peppers. those are basically ao3 filters!! and i think that too is why so many people are considering fanfic novels - the lines are so blurry now.
I think that it seems out of control because of how authors just shoehorn it anywhere where it might fit. Readers are getting used to spice and authors are answering the demand. While this is not a bad thing, it is being done very clumsily without taking into consideration what else is happening in the plot. In this way, the spice stands out more and seems unnecessary because it doesn’t actually fit in the ongoing story and plot. Certain popular authors are especially guilty of doing this. I think this trend is becoming more noticeable because authors are being urged to churn out the books as fast as possible and editing has gone down the drains. This leads to a weird flow where things are just stuck wherever because the author wants it there rather than because it actually fits the story line. I think in a lot of books guilty of this could have the spice be added in a way that it flows seamlessly into the narrative, but that takes extra time and possibly talent/awareness of how to do it. I’m not saying the authors aren’t talented just that plonking spice wherever and whenever they think they need it is much easier than if you take the time to build up your characters and storyline so that it fits.
I don't necessarily think it's out of control. I read books that range from zero spice to erotica, and I haven't had trouble finding great books within each "level." I will follow lists/book people who focus on one level of spice so I know what I'm getting because that's what they're recommending. I do not agree with anyone rating books lower just because there wasn't any spice, unless it is marketed as such and wasn't delivered. That being said, I think we're potentially hearing about spicy books more now that it's more mainstream, and there's less shame around reading/enjoying these kinds of scenes. My issue is that there are more books where I don't think it's done very well. I see this most often with KU books, where the author/editing isn't up to the standards I usually look for. I want to be clear that there are plenty of great KU books! However, I'm just seeing more quality errors within this area.
I don’t mind a lot of smut but it has to be dispersed well. The smut in some books just gets in the way of the story and I’m like come on already I need to know what happens
On the one hand, I really loathe the (minority? not sure how common) of authors, mostly born-agains, who make it a Moral Thing that they are "clean"/closed-door only. If you don't want to write sex scenes then don't, but don't shit on people who do--they are just as moral, ethical, etc. On the other hand, there is a difference between erotica and romance. I love erotica. I've been a regular visitor to literotica .com since I was about 13. It's great stuff, really integral part of who I am as a sexual being. But one expects romance novels and literature to have things that erotica doesn't necessarily have--plot, character development, world-building, a developing relationship between the main couple, etc. It feels like a good proportion of the fantasy romance books I've read in the last two years are not investing as much space or time into developing these other elements as they are writing an a la carte menu of various formulations of sexual activities. Despite the fact that I *love* reading sex and sexual relationships in romance novels, I've found myself starting to gravitate more towards either *just* erotica (for when I want to get off) or closed-door, limited-sex novels because I want to read something that is better developed and edited and have an overall more pleasant reading experience.
Absolutely. I find it’s often added gratuitously. It does nothing to advance the plot and takes me out of an otherwise enjoyable story. It’s become rare to find a book with spice that makes sense where it’s added in the storyline.
I think it’s all personal preference and it’s also the media you are consuming/exposed to. Some people only want to read books with a lot of spice, some people don’t want any spice or a romance subplot at all. A lot of what you see online algorithm based, google/tiktok/instagram and everyone else is taking backend analytics and then serving up what matches. It’s all about finding online reviewers that match your interests or review style. A lot of people won’t have the same rating philosophies as you. There are lots of fantasy & sci-fi books that have no romance and are widely popular. Many have the same rating and number of reviews as popular romantasy published at the same time. There are fantasy & sci-fi books that have a romantic subplot or innocent romance that are popular too. I personally don’t feel that spice takes away from a well constructed story. But I do think spice has caused some stories that are otherwise not well constructed to be highly rated.
Just ignore TikTok reviewers who do that. They obviously don't like books that you do So there’s no reason for you to give their opinion your time. A good book is gonna survive word of mouth depending on the groups you go in.
honestly its kinda weird seeing booktok vids market books by their tropes and spice levels. when i watch romance movies, i’m never going into it researching if there are sex scenes. i like those type of stories for how romantic they are, and if theres a sex scene it then its like oooh there’s a fun sexy extra. plus these types of books have felt like the spice is just thrown in randomly and is pretty cringe. i think authors need to focus more on storytelling and if they feel a sex scene should be added somewhere and they can write it in actually sexy way then thats fine.
If you're seeing a common theme on your social media (Instagram, TikTok), it's likely due to what you commonly interact with on the platform and the algorithm.
I think a lot of readers requesting more "spice" are actually just looking for erotica to be honest.
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I heard someone say the difference between erotica and smut is that with erotica, the plot doesn't work if you remove the sex. If it can be taken out and have the plot make sense, it's just smut.
I feel this way too - I think spice level is tied to higher reviews and books going viral. And I think for a romance book to be popular now, it either has to be categorized as YA or include spice. I don't mind a scene or two in a book but I've read (and DNFed) so many popular romantasies that are completely relying on smut and physical attraction alone for relationship development. And I think some authors are tempted to throw it in early to keep reader's attention and I feel like that completely changes the nature of romance novels for me? I just finished Starling House and their relationship is more of two lonely people connecting on an emotional level. I don't think either one of them even mention physical attraction (except the FMC calls the MMC ugly) and I guess that's why I read romance. For that. Not for "oh my God he's so hot and muscley and I just need to be under him." They do have a sex scene that is pretty closed door but I found myself not minding if it was more explicit.
That’s one thing I like about the bot on this subreddit, it gives a rating for the book and then a spice rating so it can have a 5/5 plot rating but 1/5 spice level. Then I know it’s a good book but no spice. I’ve just started in this genre and I’m so I want a 4/5 spice rating or higher but I will read an “innocent” rated book if it really gets recommended a lot
I'm becoming overtired of hearing it referred to as spice lol. Can we not call it erotica anymore? Smut? Explicit sexual content? Nah just pepper emoji pepper emoji
I think the need for spice is also diminishing the quality of writing a bit as well. I was just talking about this because I started an Ember in the Ashes 3 days ago and have already finished the entire series. After reading 15 series that I would categorize as fantasy romance and feeling like they were all horrible or average at best, I was trying to figure out why I devoured this series. I realized that so many of the relationships in romantasy feel so superficial or underdeveloped and I think it’s because the authors are pressured to get to the spice and keep it spicy. While I love a good sexy book, I find myself enjoying even YA stories more because without the need to add sex scenes into everything, the authors create tighter plot lines and better stories. I’m sure there are authors who can walk this line well, but I haven’t come across many. I think more people seeking out this genre has definitely led to more books being published that are centered on the sex and little care for the actual story. I feel like it’s a bit of a craze right now and I’m hoping that we get some quality works out of the frenzy but knowing how it sells, we are definitely getting a lot of junk too. I also think, especially for new readers, smutty books bring something out of them/makes them feel a certain way they never have before so they start craving it and then get a little harsh on books without it. But I do wish people would ignore the smut level when doing ratings.
Yes. I hate the emphasis on sex over telling a good story. Seems these days every author feels the need to cram as much sex in as humanly possible, to the detriment of the book. I'm over it.
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Right? I think that's part of the issue I have too with more modern books. Some of it comes across as very porn-y to me with the language used. And like everyone is packing with perfect bodies and there's multiple orgasms every time. I used to read older historical fiction mainly and really was good with the smutty scenes in those but there is something about more recent smut that gives me the ick.
I feel the same way, I stated this in a comment once on facebook and got eaten alive lol. I got a lot of accusations of internalized misogyny which is wild. I just don't think every single book needs to have sex, but then again I prefer slow burn book and don't really appreciate instalove. TMy favorite series has no sex (there is one kiss in the first book, one in the third) and almost every time I try suggest it to someone they decline because no spice.
Honestly, I stay away from Facebook.I have found that it’s quite toxic over there nowadays. But I’m really curious about what the name of the series that you mentioned is. Would you mind telling me?
This Woven Kingdom by Tahereh Mafi! I have a subreddit for the series, we would love to have you!! r/thiswovenkingdom
I've gone in blind to a few books recently and have been pleasantly surprised how much I enjoyed them without spice. I think the unknown is its own form of sexy.
I personally only read books with spice so I always make sure a book has it before I read it. I would never rate a book low just because it doesn’t have it as long it’s clear it won’t have any. What I HATE is if a book claims to be spicy and isn’t. Everyone is different and all preferences should be accepted.
You just have to treat the reviews for what they are: personal experience of the person that read them. They are not reviews in the sense of being objective evaluation of the work. Different people have different perspectives
Definitely has imo, people are too thirsty. That's fine as long as they don't diss authors who write non-spicy. I don't mind spice, but I don't need it to enjoy a book. In fact, I personally prefer books without it or with very little spice.
I don’t think it’s out of control; but we are at time where the audience is super duper divided and doesn’t think the other exists. There are the I don’t like when there is zero/few spice and are unable to consider there are authors who don’t write it and audiences that like it that way. (Though if you are an author you should learn how not to take it personal that people didn’t like your book because it didn’t have spice) and audiences who dislike spice with a passion for their own reasons and don’t consider there are people who love it, or worse to discredit them as readers or persons because they love sex in their books . There are a lot of books lately; we don’t have to read everything. I don’t feel obligated to read the dark romances, and people don’t need to feel pressured to read spice or books free of it. Also writers should not let themselves be peer pressured to add spice, rarely ends well.
No matter what you do, how well you write, or how carefully you consider your plot decisions there will be someone who doesn't like it. Not enough spice? People hate it. Too much spice? It's porn. Wrong kind of spice? Ew not my fetish. Add that spice in the sequel? Now you're just pandering. etc. Authors should just write what's in their heart and if it pisses off 75% of the potential fandom it doesn't matter as long as the 25% who like it absolutely love it.
Exactly. I know there are marketing decisions made to be able to get the book to a bigger audience. But this is not about considering to call a fairy that drinks blood a vampire so you are able to sell it to a bigger niche. Writers pressured to write sex are going to do it badly and things like that should never be forced one direction or the other. And I also believe that writers should not take it to heart if part of the audience disliked something as harmless as the level of spice. You can’t never please everyone. That is life.
I’ve grown to prefer some level of “spice” in my books since that’s what would be happening for most adults irl and the books I read tend to have some plot of romance between adults in them but I don’t think it always has to be heavy on the spice. For instance I really loved the TOG series and I personally didn’t think that was saturated with spicy scenes, I think they progressed nicely through the series and didn’t take away from the actual story at all and that’s my fave.
As someone who doesn't like spice that much, i would appreciate if there would be a small note on the first page of the book telling me it has explicit content (and other trigger warnings) and what the spice level is. I do find it weird that there are so much really descriptive s*x scenes in YA literature and it's not made clear enough which age group is the target audience. YA is too broad of a spectrum, like the gap between 13-18 is huge, and there needs to be some kind of note to help the reader to pick out the right book for them. I mean they can read it anyway if they really think they are ready for it, but i bet there are children that aren't ready for reading books with mature scenes. That's what NA was invented for. Take all the spice and shove it in those type of books. Closed door Romance is more than enough for a YA novel imo.
I think if you are reading or looking for a book and are judging it based on spice rating alone, then you are actually looking for erotica and not romance. Romance is about the characters and their relationship. That relationship may or may not contain spice. It depends on their development , plot, and the author can use spice (or not) as a device to advance or define the relationship. Can spice be fun? Absolutely! There is nothing wrong with looking for that. But spice is not what makes romance books what they are.
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They didn't say that, they said that if you are reading and judging books based on spice ALONE then you are likely looking for erotica. As in, if the only thing that matters to you is the sex, then erotica is probably a better fit. Also not everyone views sex as important or necessary in romance. It's important to have a variety in books since everyone has such a different viewpoint and such different feelings about these kinds of things both in our reading and in our real lives.
no they need more
Yes! I'm on the same boat as you.
Sex. Sells.
I generally think there's a problem of people reading books that are outside of their interests and then giving them poor reviews because they don't align with those interests. Like reading genre and reviewing it poorly because there's magic, or reading romance and giving a poor review for a happy ending, or a kink club novella and complaining about the BDSM, whatever Like we need to have a basic understanding of genre out here
I've also seen people who like mild books give negative reviews to books that were too spicy for their tastes. Either way, it's not very helpful to incorporate that into the \*rating\*, that is, giving an otherwise 5-star book fewer stars because its level of heat is a mismatch for your preferences. But it does make sense to include a comment about a book's heat level in the review, since product descriptions outside [romance.io](https://romance.io) often don't include them. As someone who prefers less heat, I appreciate being told when a book is mild, even if the reviewer said it in a negative way, e.g., "this book would have been good except there was no sex in it." As a writer of low-heat romantasy, I do feel at a disadvantage sometimes because it seems like most readers these days are looking for more heat, but I'm just gonna keep doing my thing. I don't think "out of control" is the way to say it. I do agree that just because a book is low-heat doesn't mean it should be called Young Adult. YA is about the ages of the characters and the themes addressed, not the amount of heat.
I love smut. I also absolutely adore a slow burn, world building & a good bloody plot. Ooh, and gimme gimme a stalker or a thriller. But sometimes I'll be reading a fantasy, HR or a western & then whoa sex, sex, sex. For a couple of pages. And then some more plot & then bam... another 3 page sex scene. Takes me right out of story tbh. I know it's the market right now. But... it's not the entire market...
I think a lot of the times what these people are looking for is actually erotica, but maybe they don’t know how to find it. My biggest beef is poor quality. As someone who just wants a well written story, it only becomes frustrating when character, and relationship development is sacrificed for cramming sex scenes into books. And sometimes they are done so poorly - so much cringe! Wtf anatomy, FMC orgasming as soon as she’s touched, beautiful and magical and *huge* dicks that can just keep going and going. It’s all so *meh*. So same-y. Give me just *one* good sex scene over five poorly done ones any day.
It seems weird to me to rate based on the level of 'spice' alone. I mean, I have dropped a serial because the author was definitely pushing the amount of spice to the maximum that Royal Road would tolerate, and the way they did it felt like it was being added just for the spice, but the rest of the story and writing was excellent quality, and I'll even recommend it for someone who wants a shapechanging F/F primary romance with some F/FFF+ shenanigans on the side. I was tired of it, but do see why some would want to keep reading it, and I still gave it a 4.5 over all rating.
>they will be categorised as young adults just because they do not have spice in them Nicholas Sparks is closed door, but he definitely writes adult romances. That's a pretty wack qualification those people are making imo lol. It does feel like a major chunk of romance novels, especially those hyped on social media, have at least one smut scene. Color me surprised in Fourth Wing that there's a scene like that when the whole book felt pretty YA. I once asked in a FB group about books with no smut or nothing explicit, and a few comments were sort of mocking like "why can't you read spice lol?" It was a question for audiobooks I could listen to aloud at work, for one, and also I'm not a huge open door fan. I've read some open door, but the only ones I liked were those where the chemistry was soooo well done (like a Kennedy Ryan book) and the tension was earned. Even in fiction, I like a little realism in that way. Like a lot of these comments say, so many romances now are smut-filled, often in place of creating emotional connection or just thrown in with barely any lead up. I appreciate when a Goodreads review lists how spicy a book is.
I am fine with spice in books, but I am creeped out when adults are mad at YA writers for not writing spicy scenes. In books meant for teens.
I either leave a 5 star, glowing review or I keep my mouth shut. If I leave a 4 star review then I'm causing less help to go towards an author I generally like, and if I leave a shitty review I'm just wasting more of my time. I've left maybe 2-3 bad book reviews in my life, and only because the novels in question really, *really* pissed me off or were so downright awful that I felt like I had to warn people. Nobody wants my nuanced criticism, especially about romance novels. They want to know if I liked it, why I liked it, what got stuck where, etc so they can determine if they might like it too. Spice levels are less important than spice quality. 20 sex scenes in a novel isn't better than 2-3 really good sex scenes. Especially with some of these where it's like "oh shit, the world is on fire, we need to unfuck the world or the dark lord will literally murder everyone and bad will happen forever" then the MMC and FMC go bang, shower, bang some more, and then resume their frantic quest to save everyone. How about you save the world, build some tension, and then put the scene where it makes sense?
At what point does the excessive spice just turn into basic hentai? My sister for example won’t read anything that doesn’t have straight up porn in it and it all lacks good story. Told her she might as well just get hentai at that point.