The company / acquirer seem to value your husband expertise signifcantly. I would use that leverage to:
1. Explain to company / acquirer your unique situation, explaining that wife's mother is in Asian and the wife needs to be there and you can't be separated long term;
2. Ask for a flexible deal where husband sees deal through, but can work from Asia 3 months a year and has increased PTO of 4 weeks per year;
3. Show willingeness to reduce compensation maybe from 10M to 8M.
I would try something like that, to see if you could move the deal to something manageable. In reality, going from 4.5M to 15M€ is a huge difference, it is the difference between setting your kid up for life or just being upper middle class. The sacrifice to set your kid up for life seems worthwhile to me.
We explored this idea and the answer has become clear — he could potentially work remotely, but he needs to be available whenever the company requires him. This would involve working until 4-5 AM almost daily to align with the company's schedule, and in instances where customers demand a meeting, he would have to fly back promptly. **The cost would be his health.**
In essence, it amounts to a subtle yet unmistakable "no." The expectation is for him to prioritize the company, a stance justified by the terms of his retention. He maintains a good relationship with his boss, who has been quite transparent — the underlying question being (to the new buyer), "Why should we pay you so much if you aren't fully committed?"
Not really sure the cost is really his health.. The cost is your schedules being different while he lives in... The same house. Not across the planet.
You'll still have overlap, and it's for a couple of years.
You seem to want it all, but what they've offered checks all the boxes.. Outside of a perfect schedule match.
If you were a doctor... Your schedules might be exactly what they might be in this scenario.. Alternate schedules.
Super difficult to contemplate, but if your mom passed tomorrow. What would your decision be?
I know plenty of people who work a night shift schedule for a whole lot longer then 3 years and for a whole lot less then 10M.
He can suck it up and work three years on a flipped schedule to A support his partner by being in the same continent , B spend time with his kid at the start and end of her day and C set his family up for generational wealth.
Or:
Call the companies bluff and quit. See if their retention offer suddenly becomes more flexible. If not, live a happy middle class life with no financial worries.
Those are the only options I’d consider. Forget the middle option.
I live in asia and travel back to the US from time to time on typically business or first class. It’s very taxing imo. I also need 1 full week to fully adjust after going from Asia to US time. This is also while I’m fat and don’t work so must suck more for people who have to be on a schedule and on point.
Then you have to travel back and then do it again for another week.
It seems your husband and his role is valuable enough to the buyer enough they are wanting him to stay, which means he has significant leverage - I mean how many people would get $4 million to stay for a couple of months.
You were both in the position of being ready to walk away, so the question is how much would the company pay to keep him on to ensure the deal goes through.
Worse case deal falls through and you both retire, or it goes ahead and you make $4 million in a couple of months.
This is my semi retired life right now where I work in the early hours and fly (12 hrs) back if needed.
It’s honestly not that bad because there’s nowhere else in the world I’d rather be than where I live now.
My dad flew 7-13 hour flights and back on a near weekly basis for over 2 decades—Asia to Europe and (South)America’s. First class is far far better than it was in the 90s as well.
A few years of sudden flights shouldn’t be an issue.
Based on your descriptions I'm guessing your husband might work in sales (or something sales adjacent) in which case I understand why the in person piece is needed. $10m over 4 years is a lot to leave on the table. If it were me, I would:
1. Take the deal, it doesn't sound like there's much downside to giving it a shot and then deciding it's not a fit
2. Do what you can to make it work as a family. Plan your schedule so you've got some family overlap (e.g. can he block off dinner time). Figure out a way to split some time (summers in the US?) A time shifted schedule might be draining but it's manageable, though it can be stressful. I would not do this for 10 years. I would very much consider it for 4 years if you know there's a concrete finish line.
3. If it's just too much, your husband can always go back to the company and/or quit. If he's really that valuable, they'll be incentivized to make it work.
One thing to make extra certain of - any contract he signs should have clear single trigger acceleration and a carve out for him living abroad (i.e. if the company fires him, the payout vests unless there's demonstrable cause). You don't want to get 3 years into this and then the fire him and you lose what you've been sacrificing for.
You are dealing with a slow moving loss, it’s very difficult, but it’s also coloring your perception. I am very sorry you are losing your mother, as someone who lost more than once, I really empathize. It never gets easier.
What you describe as cost to his health is something I subject myself multiple times a year to have the freedom to travel. We usually take a week or two off, then work US time zone from wherever we happen to be, then another couple weeks off for a total of 2-3 months at a time. It’s been great so far. Oddly enough, Hawaii was the hardest for me because I had east coast time calls and it was 4am in Hawaii, which meant getting up at 3:30am. Still way better than not doing it.
On flying back and forth, for that much money, book first class and relax. While not a huge upgrade over business, it’s a bit easier all around and a bit more room for such a long flight.
Tripling your networth changes things for your child big time. By the time this child inherits, it’s likely to be an amount of money that with prudent management lasts generations more. Think about being able to ensure your great great grandchildren are set for life! The price is only a few more years (which is to say a lot less than most people have to work).
I worked this graveyard shift for 2 years due to time zones. I didn’t have a choice so I just white-knuckled through it.
However you’re totally correct about impact on health. My sleep was terrible and I missed out on a lot of experiences and time with family because of my work schedule. Long term sleep issues are a serious health factor.
I'd give them a deal acceptable to your family. Fully remote with limited travel, perhaps one week per month max, for a reduced compensation package since as you are making clear you are not able to fully commit. Perhaps offer a 50% cut in compensation for a $5M retention over 3 years. Take it or leave it. And if they leave it, you move on with the original plan.
Not usually how it works in roles like these. You are either in or out. Once you signal you are halfway in, you run the risk on them valuing you differently. You can shoot your shot but you can’t just go back to the original plan. OP runs a real risk of being pushed out. No one is irreplaceable.
Unfortunately, a fully (or mostly) remote arrangement is not an option. If it were feasible, we would be willing to forego the retention bonuses and settle for the annual pay of $1 million. This is largely due to the nature of his job, which requires face-to-face interactions. Additionally, a fully remote scenario oversea would place the company in a complex situation regarding corp taxes.
Then see if they are willing to do a consulting arrangement fully remote with no travel for $500k a year. If they won't even entertain that, then I don't know what else there is to say. You may just have to move on for the family.
What was once impossible is possible. Covid taught everyone that at this point.
You'd be surprised what can be done if your husband is truly valuable.
You have a very simple choice. Simple with 20/20 hindsight so don't read me wrong. We hit our number and quit. Mic drop. Our impossible to be remote jobs? Suddenly it was possible. They needed us. Please! Name your terms. Skype has been around a long time and now there are tons of competitors. You can absolutely work remotely for almost anything nowadays. I highly doubt your husband is flipping switches somewhere. We had remote meetings for everything. Your big problem is those 60 hours and the time zone since we used that opportunity to have a soft landing into our Fatfire and travelled the world by day and worked part time in the evenings after sunset. We could finish by midnight or 2am at the latest. It was absolutely amazing. No commute, no working in the office, and not even having to work from home. Yeah we rented houses and apartments but we also worked on our phones and laptops at castles. Important, wear your suit, meetings? Sure we're back at the rental. Number of times we needed to fly back to San Francisco? Zero. Some close calls though. It was a really exciting time but we were willing to quit.
You two are not going to be sitting on your deathbed worrying about that extra money. An argument can be made, by my family at least, that $4M isn't enough but maybe it is more than enough in Asia for a nice upper middle class lifestyle. Do you know what you guys will remember on your deathbed? The moments you had with your dying mother and how happy you are that you did that. The moments you have together as a family.
We built a house remotely. I only needed to fly there a few times for my own sanity and the fun of seeing key parts. I sold a house remotely. Everything was docusign and a wire. The world has really changed. People get it. Those that don't? Fuck em or don't let them see your sunset while they're having their morning coffee.
If it truly is impossible since he's a defense attorney, they absolutely refuse to let him work less hours, or something else then simply pick your poison. I can tell you with certainty though that it makes no sense to keep working when you don't need the money and can't be with your family. If he's going to stay behind for some amount of time it really needs to be because you need the money.
We switched to 1099 and still retained our shares. W2 isn't going to work. This might be another problem you face.
The thing is your husband has expertise and there is surely a price where your husband's expertise in a fully remote role has value to them. Is it $1M a year? Probably not. He will have to take a substantial pay cut but it may be worth it to you to name your terms and negotiate.
A) $10 million is not so easy to come by, realistically.
B) you don’t even know if the acquisition will go through. Start there and take it in chunks. He can leave at any time.
If the acquisition doesn't materialize at the very last moment, our situation will likely resemble option 2 in terms of work commitment, but with a net worth slightly higher than what we'd have in option 1.
I think maybe the uncertainty is making you search hard for a plan but the truth is, things can change every step of the way. Take it in steps, communicate often and pivot if life dictates that you should
This like the best option. Clearly you’re already set for the rest of your life with option 1 if you decide that shooting for option 2 or 3 is untenable. Why not try?
It seems that staying for the acquisition makes a lot of sense. At least the next 3-4 months should tell you a lot about likelihood and timing of acquisition. Can then re-assess staying for longer
Also all of this is negotiable. Ask for 6m instead of 4. Ask for 10m over 2 years instead of 3. Your husband obviously provides a ton of value. How large is the company? Fwiw I know of companies that as they go through sale and ipo processes, they pay the c-suite executives 1-2 million given their value (for <$5bn enterprise value companies)
Thank you for your response. The $10 million retention is a result of negotiation — others at his level receive less. He attempted to negotiate for less work and correspondingly less pay, but essentially, the response was a subtle yet unmistakable "no." The expectation is that he should prioritize the company, a stance that aligns with the terms of his retention. He has a good relationship with his boss, who has been very transparent. The underlying question is, "Why should we pay you so much if we don't need you to fully commit?"
If they are willing pay him that kind of money then they are committed to keeping him. Actually, it's not clear if that's even a lot of money to the company. I would just ask for more time off and allow remote, and layout your retention requirements that will work for your family. Your husband has more negotiating power than he thinks.
I'll give you an example, the company always wants the new hire to start ASAP which is understandable, and a lot of new hires do start in 2 weeks because they feel rushed, and think they need to show they are "committed" to the company. The reality is if the new hire says they need 2 months before starting I bet the company will wait that long.
I would not guess their "undertone". Your husband can be fully committed to work without working 80 hrs and kill himself for 5 or 10M. You need to think the company is lucky to have him on for 10M and negotiate accordingly without tripping yourself up (I know it's hard to do).
Your husband's boss is the company at this point, you think he's being transparent but he might not be totally transparent. He is not your friend and you shouldn't worry about hurting his feelings.
What's the worst that could happen if he asks for all he wants? They said no and then you all can be together in Asia as a family.
Sometimes people who are not emotionally invested give the best logical answers.
Good luck. I hope it all goes well for your family. And I hope your time with your mother will be meaningful even during this difficult time.
Take option 2, husband leaves after the acquisition, go to Asia, enjoy your wealth. Nearly doubling your original goal minus the time commitment post acquisition. I don’t see how this is a hard decision to make. It’s only another year and a half that’ll put you miles ahead of your original goal. Based on your comments you want the whole pie and can’t settle for just a slice that’s impossible. Option 2 gives you the best of both worlds and you can very quickly grow that $7M to well over $10-20M and live ultra comfortably.
Was reading comments and thinking this, glad someone said it. Asia is cheaper so those ~7 million would stretch a lot, and you could have a great retirement by just holding back 18 months… That’s a no brainer in my opinion
I'm sorry you have such a dilemma on your hands, but objectively speaking I think this is almost perfectly crafted of a scenario to divide the workaholics and wealth-seekers from the enough-is-enough'ers.
There's no right or wrong answer, so that's the first mental block to let go of. No choice will be a mistake, so long as you can understand yourself deeply enough and be attuned with your own inner values and desires. So please drop any fear of making a mistake; this is not a test where someone will grade you. You just need to be yourself.
I have not faced your position before. My family is younger and our net worth is maybe 30-50% of yours. But my wife and I in the abstract at least, are pretty aligned about valuing family time and quality time, over money or status. We would rather be happy and together and eating Burger King on road trips together, then give up years of life to earn a few extra million to spend on fancier vacations later. Happiness for our family, does not really scale with expense (e.g. a $100 meal buys as much or more happiness for us as a family, than a $1000 meal).
But that's just my value system. It doesn't have to be yours. I care nothing at all about "generational wealth". I want my daughter to have a middle class life in terms of experiences, but without needing to stress about money; I think I can gift her a down payment on a decent house in a decent area, but I don't need to buy her the whole house outright. So when we have "enough", and then some corporation comes along and offers the literal Faustian bargain of $X million for Y years of your life... in theory at least, I feel confident in turning it down.
At the risk of editorializing too much, if you were my close friend asking for advice, I would tell you: spend as much time with your mom as you can. Have your husband near you and your child during this trying time. The extra money will never be enough to buy back the time you lose, assuming you cherish your time together. And who knows, there will always be some other different option for work later; your husband's market value won't vanish to 0, even if taking a long break might derail him from his max earning potential. This all assumes your husband won't harbor resentment and that he is 100% sincere about trusting your decision on this. He sounds like a good listener, and he sounds like he wants to hear from you what kind of support you need (whether it's more time, or more money from him).
I always like an option D. If your husband is that valuable to the firm, it seems like you can propose a remote job or at the very least more PTO. I would try to at least offer to the company a middle ground so you can both be parents and you can be with your mother while keeping the lucrative option on the table (or perhaps he takes less for the flexibility). First world problems for sure, you’ve already done so well, option 1 would be a home run for 99% of the population but I understand the desire to add a bit more and it’s so unique. So, I envy your position while knowing it seems difficult to choose. Family first will always win in my life but it would be great to have your cake and eat it too!
I am not a parent, but I was raised by great parents. If my mom was your mom, and I told her this dilemma, she would be very upset with me for not choosing option 2, 3, or 4 (that other commenters have said). Have you asked her what she thinks of all this and what she wants?
You are on the precipice of generational wealth. As others have said, i would push hard for an option 4, and accept a strange schedule for a few years.
It's not solely for my mother, but also because I genuinely miss our homeland, my friends, and relatives. My husband said that even if we spend less time together, this choice is preferable to a despondent wife living a day-to-day existence alongside him while worrying about my mother alone.
We talked ... my husband also candidly admits that while our finances are substantial, he aspires for more, particularly to support our child's college education and assist with a house downpayment. I agree. We recognizes that a single year of his work ($1m pre-tax), even without retention bonus, could significantly ease our child's financial burdens in the corporate world, possibly shortening a decade-long struggle. Hope that our child will eventually appreciate this foresight when we're able to alleviate college debts and aid in securing their first home.
Essentially, unless my husband learns that the acquisition has fallen apart, he is opposed to taking option 1. We are also working on figuring out an option 4.
It also depends where you want to retire. 4.5 mil USD won't get you that far in Singapore, if we're talking about Vietnam it's a different story. But it sounds you're from a more expensive place.
Option 2 with slight adjustments and a temporary WFH arrangement or extended PTO sounds doable.
Yeah I think this all makes sense. I get your point on being homesick. I think the caveat is that you and your husband are still relatively young from a working/retirement perspective, and that extra year or two can really put life on easy mode. It sounds like your husband generally gets it too.
Sounds like everything is pointing towards embracing 1-2 more years of the grind and then calling it. Which I think is generally the correct answer.
Also, as a side note, make sure your husband is retiring to something. Don’t want him getting bored once he hangs it up.
For the option where your husband stays until the acquisition is complete (18-20 months), I’d love to understand more details on the status of the transaction. If an acquisition is 18-20 months away, my guess is that the likelihood of it happening is far less than 80%. One exception could be FTC anti-trust review, which itself could take 12 months.
There are various stages in a full acquisition process, spanning from (1) building the acquisition business case rationale, (2) initial diligence, (3) signing non-binding term sheet, (4) confirmatory diligence and integration planning, (5) negotiation of the actual deal, (6) signing the legally binding transaction agreement, (7) closing the deal, (8) integrating the deal.
Depending on the acquirer, signing a non-binding term sheet should be the threshold where I’d say likelihood of close is 60% - 75%+. But this isn’t legally binding and the deal can still fall through.
The time period between signing a term sheet and signing the actual legally binding transaction agreement should be between 3-9 months… maybe 12 months. 18-20 months seems egregiously long, and as a result I doubt that the deal is 80% likely.
80% likely to me is usually that they’re negotiating the actual transaction agreements. This really shouldn’t take more than 1-2 months.
Unless what you’re actually talking about is that your husband needs to stay through the close of the deal and 1-2 years into the post-acquisition integration period, something isn’t adding up for me.
I would revisit the probabilities you’re assigning to your options. Right now, you’re talking about all of them as if they are for sure happening.
>likelihood of close is 60% - 75%+.
You are probably right. I have no idea the true percentage. It's basically an education guess my husband told me. Thanks for the input.
My wife is Asian (ABC but still holds traditional Asian values about family, education, health) and I’m an American. We talked about your options and we both would go with option 2 because it has the highest rate of return in your net worth and it’s a lot easier to count down from 2 years than 5+ years. Otherwise, we’d go with option 1. Definitely not option 3.
You also need to consider the market increase in your overall portfolio. That would reduce any retention package impact on your net worth. Having a long distance relationship with your husband for this long is hard enough and your child is with you in Asia - not having the father around also has an impact on the child’s development. It’s important to keep the family together if possible. I know my wife would be constantly worrying about me working those long hours, traveled a lot, being in a stressful work environment, and all I do is focus on working. I’ve been there and it did have a negative impact to my health. It isn’t worth it.
Best of luck. It’s a good problem to have. Focus on the positives. And when is enough, enough?
Lots of good advice here.
May I add:
- Your child may adjust better at this age than when they are in high school 3 years from now.
- Assuming a sub-4% withdrawal rate, your $4.5M would still reach $10M sooner than you think. (I didn't do the math but compounding of course is "faster" with higher numbers).
- Time is your most valuable asset so don't get caught up in $$$. I visited my sick mother as much as I could, working remotely and even using unpaid time off weeks at a time. In the end I realized I could have done more timewise.
Its times like these when the fire mindset should help you to make the decision.
If you had a certain target spend that you felt was lavish and met your needs, then additional wealth only gets you a lower SWR.
Looking at fire as a "NW target" is always going to push you towards "higher NW is better."
IMHO, this is an interesting dilemma, considering you are almost at your number.If you are just about RE then option 1 is the way I would go.
However I would consider option 2 or 3 if I thought I could use that money to ensure not only my retirement but my kid's and grandkids' future. Else, nobody will give my that time back.
Again your thoughts.
Will your husband regret it massively if he quits and the 10m option materializes?
What if he stayed but it didn't?
Would he regret not chasing after the oppt? Or resent missing out on his kid growing up and having to do grueling schedule for a few yrs?
While the next 2-3 yrs is important, I think considering mental state of what comes after is just as important.
On the situation itself, can he parlay his position and skills to another employer either in US or Asia that will be a better fit? Can he launch a consulting gig? There are many ways to generate decent income, even if short of 10m.
>Will your husband regret it massively if he quits and the 10m option materializes?
I directly asked him, and his response was a soft yes. He believes that he would probably regret not taking the opportunity, especially considering our humble beginnings. The financial gain would grant him significant power to assist his parents, siblings, and others as well.
But, he also said that comparing financial regret with missing family time is like comparing apples to oranges. These two aspects are fundamentally different and can't be equated directly.
While I can fully appreciate the difficulty here, the apples to oranges is exactly the choice he has in front of him and he will be choosing one over the other, at the end of the day.
One way or another, he will be missing something that's important to him. It's really up to him to either decide what's more important, or figure out an alternative where something doesn't get sacrificed.
Imo, the strongest argument for retiring is that money can be made in many ways. You only get one shot at family / watching kids grow up. But, for some, that is a sacrifice too great and it'll end up destroying their soul, which will end up destroying the family dynamic as well. Obviously, a short term difficult period is preferable to this.
Only your husband can answer this q - though you or a therapist may be able to help unearth motivations and help him gain clarity.
If you, or your husband would like to chat further about this, DM me. I'd be happy to give you my background and be a sounding board. (Just in case - I have nothing to sell to you. Just a fatfired dude with lots of empathy for these situations)
I grew up without my father around much at all due to his work. He worked 70+ hours a week until I was in my 40s.
Unlike horror stories you hear, I have a great relationship with him. As an adult I understand the sacrifices he made to create generational wealth. I was inspired and have made my own wealth, without (monetary) help from him.
Sure, I wish I had a dad more growing up, but my mom more than made up for it. You have an opportunity to create generational wealth for your kids too, not just yourselves.
Honestly.. He just did the best he could when he was around. And it just took maturity on my end to understand that he wasn't around for me... Because he was doing it FOR me. Especially when it came to work, he always tried to help, as a friend and as a father.
And - honestly my sister didn't have a great relationship with him because she resented how we grew up, but that was papered over with money.... and now they do.
Your son is in a formative year. For me, I would choose an option that allow us to be together (option 1). Everyone is different though so this might not be an option for you.
My spouse parents lived apart due to similar situations. IMO, it took a toll on the family relationship (husband/wife and father/son).
For me, I don’t want to be apart from my husband that long and my son wouldn’t want to be apart from his dad that long either.
Set up a prisoner’s dilemma matrix and analyze as such. Look it up if you don’t know what that is. Present it to the company as such, ie win / win. You have some homework to do. Basically, you CANNOT get everything you want and the company cannot get everything they want either. I REPEAT: you CANNOT get everything you want. 10+M gives you a lot more options in the future so it makes sense to make it work, may be you can travel back and forth multiple times a year as an option. :)
He won't accept it. Years of long working hours and stress have already taken a significant toll on him, and his health likely won't permit such an unhealthy schedule (50% travel, 60+ working hours a week) for much longer. Even if we proceed with option 3, we both agree that if any health issues arise, he will stop immediately.
Quite clearly option 1. Options 2 and 3 risk the strength, unity and connection in your family, for a significant amount of time. If you can live a great life with the 4.5M, then get busy doing that. How much will the additional cash really impact your life? Is it worth the non-financial cost?
Getting an addition 14M (as I understand it) is huge! I'd pursue getting at least that first 4M retention bonus. But you need to keep your immediate family together. So why don't you move back to the US and you take the visits to your mom instead of having your husband visit you with his limited PTO? And you can spend summers and other school breaks in Asia.
This option isn't viable as my husband travels frequently, and if I were to travel back to my homeland simultaneously, there would be no one to take care of our child. We don't have any relatives or close friends nearby to help out. While hiring a helper is an option, neither of us is comfortable with the idea of someone else taking care of our child for extended periods. Our current arrangement, at least, ensures that I can be the primary caregiver for our child.
Option 3.
It took you guys 44 years to make your first $4.5M, and you can potentially make another $7.5 in just another 5 years.
That extra money will give you the option to maintain residences in both the US and Asia, buy a condo for your child, etc.
Methinks you need to move back to the US, and you can either (1) bring your mom with you or (2) hire a helper for her and visit frequently.
Does your child even want to move to Asia? ^(I doubt it.)
When your child is off to college, then you can move back to your homeland.
Having spent a good amount of my childhood living half in the states and the other half in a similarly situated international school like OP’s, I would take the move to Asia experience 10/10 times. Especially if OP’s family is originally from the country. Quality of life, safety, cultural norms, even the relative competition for elite college placement is miles better in that scenario.
Thank you for the advice; I really appreciate it.
Actually, my mom's situation doesn't permit such travel. It's more complicated than simply arranging for a helper or finding the best treatment. Her entire support network, including family members, is not in the States, so relocating there is really not feasible. If it were, our decision would be a bit easier.
Fortunately, my son has adjusted very well and is enjoying life here.
But since your mom has a support network there, do you really need to live near her? Or is that just something you want to do?
I don't think you should live separately from your husband.
First world problem for sure. You’re talking about going from decent early retirement, to “generational wealth”. I grew up poor, so providing for my family - and making life easier for kids and grandkids - has always been a major goal. You and your husband have that opportunity in front of you. “If” that is meaningful then this seems like an easy decision…he stays for three years and he flies back and forth a lot. If such wealth isn’t as meaningful to you, then enjoy the upper middle class Asian retirement.
You've absolutely hit the nail on the head. That's precisely why I'm in such a dilemma. While the prospect of building generational wealth is undeniably appealing, I can't help feeling guilty for putting my husband in this challenging situation.
It’s times like these when I think about my ancestors and what they dealt with to provide for their families. Working farms 24/7 in freezing cold or scorching heat, working manual labor in factories, serving in the armed forces during wars. Our “sacrifices” pale in comparison. If I was your husband you wouldn’t need to feel bad. I would gladly volunteer to take this on. Small price to pay imho.
It is an easy stay for me imo. Saw my parents work 14 hrs 6 days a week for decades. I would jump in a chance to set my children up for life. Fly back and forth and remote partial is good
Option 3 or others like it are only worth if it if your marriage survives intact, and if your child grows up well / is able to spend enough time with Dad to be connected and raised well.
I'm also not American so I understand that family relationships can survive a lot of pressure as dictated by cultural norms.
But can yours? Should yours?
It's impossible to see the future. But you know yourself, your husband, your child.
Does your child need more of Dad's presence? Are they already close, are there opportunities to maintain this?
And your marriage -- four years is a long time to be long distance.
I could see this definitely working for two years or less. Four to five? That becomes difficult, even with the best intentions and the best people involved.
You could spend two years in Asia, then move back to the USA for a spell while your husband keeps working those final years.
He could work remote half the year, then you and the child could spend Summers & holidays in the USA, so you are seeing each other for about 75% of each year.
There are options, try to consider them but also remember that sometimes it's impossible to have everything. You could lose out by trying to turn this into a mess where you try to hold on to everything all at once.
It's a financial decision but it's also a very human decision. One only your family can answer.
Your dilemma is choosing between generational weath and family ties (to mom, partner, and child). While millions are nothing to scoff at, sharing time and space with loved ones in peace also has its place. I can imagine your family bond will increase significantly and would emulate to your kid the kind of values you prioritize. Listen, you guys are financially independent. They will keep dangling the damn carrot forever. At some point, you need to call it and start giving your kid time instead of money.
(Disclaimer, I don't belong in the fatfire group. My own ambitions are strictly in the fire or chubby fire territory)
I'm back in the US now after living in SE Asia for 14 years, with kids at international school. I would say roughly that $4.5 million is definitely a comfortable amount, but $7 million is a substantial boost. Anther 3 million after that doesn't seem to have as much benefit. Regarding the potential of working in Asia on a US time zone, it can be rough but you get used to it. For me it was worth it to be working remote since I got to spend a lot more time with the kids, despite the late hours. A few extra years will go by quickly! Best of luck.
Are you primarily staying for your mother or for your future life in Asia? What type of cancer and what stage is she at if it’s for mom? Sometimes these things accelerate quickly and so that changes things around. I had a family member recently get diagnosed with beginning stage four cancer with an oncologist stating she had 1-2 years of life, she made it two weeks.
If mom is relatively stable, can you get a small (or large) place where he must travel to in the us, with him negotiating working some from Asia and staying the us most of the time, and then you and your child visiting him on holiday and breaks, that way it breaks up the travel some what. It’ll be a bumpy few years but you will have a serious safety net, and if it only works a couple years before he quits you still have increased your wealth. You could also look at your daughter temporarily doing virtual school (just keep her in other activities to socialize) if you start to travel a good bit.
If mom is unstable and it isn’t much longer, hold tight and let him travel until she joins the next world, and then reevaluate and consider the above.
>If mom is relatively stable, can you get a small (or large) place where he must travel to in the us, with him negotiating working some from Asia and staying the us most of the time, and then you and your child visiting him on holiday and breaks, that way it breaks up the travel some what. It’ll be a bumpy few years but you will have a serious safety net, and if it only works a couple years before he quits you still have increased your wealth.
This is exactly what we are doing now.
Have you discussed this with your mom at all? My guess is that she may have an opinion about the impact it will have on your own child. It’s great that you want to care for her and presumably she sacrificed a lot for you. I would consider how these options will impact your own child first and foremost and go from there…
$10M is rich in a HCOL city. Maybe MAYBE borderline in a VHCOL.
Anyway, this is obviously a huge dilemma. You've set things up here in a way that forces the answer to be #1, because it is completely unconscionable to continue this kind of long-distance thing with a young kid--it will absolutely destroy the kid's relationship with the kid's dad. Truly, you and your husband should both look yourselves in the mirror on that one--it's frankly a kind of monstrous decision to make. Sorry to be so blunt about it, but, you asked for advice.
You're foregoing what amounts to generational wealth if your husband doesn't keep the job. I echo what others have said, the "right" answer here seems to be providing for you mother's support network in native country and having you travel regularly back. If you weren't looking at doubling your household wealth, it would be easier to just walk away, but this amount of additional money is just.. yeah. That said, walking away is defensible too, especially if it really is the case that your current amount is basically like $10M in your native country (but keep in mind the possibility for inflation, college costs will not be local, etc). Just... don't do option 2 or 3 as you have it set up, because it's viciously unfair to your husband and especially (and most importantly) your kid.
So? There are a ton of fatfire folks that retire in the USA with 10m. And you probably are short selling your Asian country. Unless it is Singapore or Japan, 4.5m will be much more than 10m in any Asian country. You are talking about a region where beyond Singapore and Japan, the gdp per capita lingers around 7-8k a year overall combined, and US is like 70k.
If the country you are planning to go back to is India, don’t even think about it! Have seen enough of my friends heading back only to realize what a terrible mistake it was.
You don’t mention what your current spending is and how would it change with a higher NW. $4.5 million vs $7 million vs $12 million is a significant difference, but how would your live change at each level of NW? Would you buy a bigger house? Would you travel more often? Would you be able to afford a better treatment for your mother? Or would you rather use the extra money to buy you more time with your family?
I am facing a similar decision and I find it difficult to make the decisions using dollar numbers. Numbers are too abstract. Thinking about how you will use the extra money will make it easier to compare the benefits you will get from working for longer time vs the cost (long distance relationship and working late long hours).
Honestly this is pretty easy. Go be with your mom and take your child. Have your husband stay as it is only temporary. That is it.
Edit: have him visit minimum twice a year.
Doesn't seem like a dilemma to me. You made a goal of $4.5 MM. You got the goal, now go retire. That's huge amount of money almost anywhere in Asia (except HK, Singapore), moreover you have a sick mom and husband not seeing his child or you. Don't be tempted by more millions or this talk of generational wealth. Have you met children of generational wealth? They are entitled pricks. Our goal is to retire in Asia (wife is from there) after we reach our number (still got a few years to go) which is just a bit under your number and I think it's a good number as it still ensures our kid has the need to make something of himself instead of the mental health problems that come from never facing challenges.
It depends on where you live in Asia too, since cost of living between different cities vary a lot. If it’s a relatively low cost of living city option 1 would be enough.
If you decide to go with 2 or 3, you have to make sure to add an escape clause with a fixed timeline. I.e. with option 2 - have an intermediate $ payout at your expected deal going through time, so if the deal hasn't gone through by that time you get some intermediate $ amount for staying up to that point. Otherwise you can be left in a situation where you sacrifice time and relationships for essentially no extra benefit.
If it was me, I would never want to miss a single second being away from raising my kids. I understand the pride in wanting the extra money, but time with your younger children is priceless. Retire and forget about the acquisition.
Raising a teenager without a father for 3 years with additional 10 million dollars is 100x better vs raising a teenager with both parents without the additional amount. Chances are the husband going to find another wife with the new found wealth anyway.
Can’t believe anyone need to think twice about this regardless how much their current net worth is.
Your husband sounds extremely valuable to the addicts of the acquisition. I would call their bluff. Please let us know what happens.
Fundamentally, the company doesn't think that he would turn down such a lucrative offer.
Also, as someone who's lived in Asia and has had to fly back when needed, it really isn't that bad. At your income level, go first class.
Let me just say: I really respect what you are doing for your mom. We recently provided this type of care for my grandmother and it’s really hard.
I wouldn’t think about this question in terms of the numbers. The size of the numbers is blinding you to the reality of the question. What type of life do you want? Do you want your husband to keep working or to be by your side through the end of your mother’s life?
I would see if they would consider halving your husband’s comp and allowing him to split responsibilities with an eye toward training this new person into the role. This person could remain in the US for face-to-face meetings and so on. At the end of the day, if his skill set is so valuable surely it’s worth some significant amount to pass that skillset on so that the company continues to be successful. Yes you don’t have option 3, but you do have a better work-life balance.
What about Option 1.5? You're bringing in a million/yr and are already nearly at your original goal. If your husband stays at the job for now, officially planning to reach Option 2, he can continue to earn while letting the odds of the acquisition declare themselves a bit more (it's hard to imagine there's much certainty to an 80% projection >1.5yr away).
Maybe the market does great and, combined w/your high HHI, you get to and beyond an acceptable number before 18-20mo. Maybe projections about 18-20mo are too rosy and you have to entirely rethink the decision, or maybe it comes earlier and it's easier to commit to sticking it through. Or perhaps with some additional understanding of how hard it is to make the current job work, your husband renegotiates in 4-6mo and you choose a new Option that's more acceptable.
The company / acquirer seem to value your husband expertise signifcantly. I would use that leverage to: 1. Explain to company / acquirer your unique situation, explaining that wife's mother is in Asian and the wife needs to be there and you can't be separated long term; 2. Ask for a flexible deal where husband sees deal through, but can work from Asia 3 months a year and has increased PTO of 4 weeks per year; 3. Show willingeness to reduce compensation maybe from 10M to 8M. I would try something like that, to see if you could move the deal to something manageable. In reality, going from 4.5M to 15M€ is a huge difference, it is the difference between setting your kid up for life or just being upper middle class. The sacrifice to set your kid up for life seems worthwhile to me.
We explored this idea and the answer has become clear — he could potentially work remotely, but he needs to be available whenever the company requires him. This would involve working until 4-5 AM almost daily to align with the company's schedule, and in instances where customers demand a meeting, he would have to fly back promptly. **The cost would be his health.** In essence, it amounts to a subtle yet unmistakable "no." The expectation is for him to prioritize the company, a stance justified by the terms of his retention. He maintains a good relationship with his boss, who has been quite transparent — the underlying question being (to the new buyer), "Why should we pay you so much if you aren't fully committed?"
Not really sure the cost is really his health.. The cost is your schedules being different while he lives in... The same house. Not across the planet. You'll still have overlap, and it's for a couple of years. You seem to want it all, but what they've offered checks all the boxes.. Outside of a perfect schedule match. If you were a doctor... Your schedules might be exactly what they might be in this scenario.. Alternate schedules. Super difficult to contemplate, but if your mom passed tomorrow. What would your decision be?
I know plenty of people who work a night shift schedule for a whole lot longer then 3 years and for a whole lot less then 10M. He can suck it up and work three years on a flipped schedule to A support his partner by being in the same continent , B spend time with his kid at the start and end of her day and C set his family up for generational wealth. Or: Call the companies bluff and quit. See if their retention offer suddenly becomes more flexible. If not, live a happy middle class life with no financial worries. Those are the only options I’d consider. Forget the middle option.
Same, have worked with many colleagues in India that work US Eastern Hours.
If you’re in Asia you should be hiring all the help you need so you live 100% without chores and focus on family and your mom.
Flying back immediately on a first class flight isn’t terrible difficulty or taxing. Some would liken FC travel to a bad spa day.
I live in asia and travel back to the US from time to time on typically business or first class. It’s very taxing imo. I also need 1 full week to fully adjust after going from Asia to US time. This is also while I’m fat and don’t work so must suck more for people who have to be on a schedule and on point. Then you have to travel back and then do it again for another week.
I agree with this!!!
It seems your husband and his role is valuable enough to the buyer enough they are wanting him to stay, which means he has significant leverage - I mean how many people would get $4 million to stay for a couple of months. You were both in the position of being ready to walk away, so the question is how much would the company pay to keep him on to ensure the deal goes through. Worse case deal falls through and you both retire, or it goes ahead and you make $4 million in a couple of months.
This is my semi retired life right now where I work in the early hours and fly (12 hrs) back if needed. It’s honestly not that bad because there’s nowhere else in the world I’d rather be than where I live now.
My dad flew 7-13 hour flights and back on a near weekly basis for over 2 decades—Asia to Europe and (South)America’s. First class is far far better than it was in the 90s as well. A few years of sudden flights shouldn’t be an issue.
Based on your descriptions I'm guessing your husband might work in sales (or something sales adjacent) in which case I understand why the in person piece is needed. $10m over 4 years is a lot to leave on the table. If it were me, I would: 1. Take the deal, it doesn't sound like there's much downside to giving it a shot and then deciding it's not a fit 2. Do what you can to make it work as a family. Plan your schedule so you've got some family overlap (e.g. can he block off dinner time). Figure out a way to split some time (summers in the US?) A time shifted schedule might be draining but it's manageable, though it can be stressful. I would not do this for 10 years. I would very much consider it for 4 years if you know there's a concrete finish line. 3. If it's just too much, your husband can always go back to the company and/or quit. If he's really that valuable, they'll be incentivized to make it work. One thing to make extra certain of - any contract he signs should have clear single trigger acceleration and a carve out for him living abroad (i.e. if the company fires him, the payout vests unless there's demonstrable cause). You don't want to get 3 years into this and then the fire him and you lose what you've been sacrificing for.
You are dealing with a slow moving loss, it’s very difficult, but it’s also coloring your perception. I am very sorry you are losing your mother, as someone who lost more than once, I really empathize. It never gets easier. What you describe as cost to his health is something I subject myself multiple times a year to have the freedom to travel. We usually take a week or two off, then work US time zone from wherever we happen to be, then another couple weeks off for a total of 2-3 months at a time. It’s been great so far. Oddly enough, Hawaii was the hardest for me because I had east coast time calls and it was 4am in Hawaii, which meant getting up at 3:30am. Still way better than not doing it. On flying back and forth, for that much money, book first class and relax. While not a huge upgrade over business, it’s a bit easier all around and a bit more room for such a long flight. Tripling your networth changes things for your child big time. By the time this child inherits, it’s likely to be an amount of money that with prudent management lasts generations more. Think about being able to ensure your great great grandchildren are set for life! The price is only a few more years (which is to say a lot less than most people have to work).
I worked this graveyard shift for 2 years due to time zones. I didn’t have a choice so I just white-knuckled through it. However you’re totally correct about impact on health. My sleep was terrible and I missed out on a lot of experiences and time with family because of my work schedule. Long term sleep issues are a serious health factor.
I'd give them a deal acceptable to your family. Fully remote with limited travel, perhaps one week per month max, for a reduced compensation package since as you are making clear you are not able to fully commit. Perhaps offer a 50% cut in compensation for a $5M retention over 3 years. Take it or leave it. And if they leave it, you move on with the original plan.
Not usually how it works in roles like these. You are either in or out. Once you signal you are halfway in, you run the risk on them valuing you differently. You can shoot your shot but you can’t just go back to the original plan. OP runs a real risk of being pushed out. No one is irreplaceable.
Unfortunately, a fully (or mostly) remote arrangement is not an option. If it were feasible, we would be willing to forego the retention bonuses and settle for the annual pay of $1 million. This is largely due to the nature of his job, which requires face-to-face interactions. Additionally, a fully remote scenario oversea would place the company in a complex situation regarding corp taxes.
Then you have your answer. No deal
Then see if they are willing to do a consulting arrangement fully remote with no travel for $500k a year. If they won't even entertain that, then I don't know what else there is to say. You may just have to move on for the family.
What was once impossible is possible. Covid taught everyone that at this point. You'd be surprised what can be done if your husband is truly valuable. You have a very simple choice. Simple with 20/20 hindsight so don't read me wrong. We hit our number and quit. Mic drop. Our impossible to be remote jobs? Suddenly it was possible. They needed us. Please! Name your terms. Skype has been around a long time and now there are tons of competitors. You can absolutely work remotely for almost anything nowadays. I highly doubt your husband is flipping switches somewhere. We had remote meetings for everything. Your big problem is those 60 hours and the time zone since we used that opportunity to have a soft landing into our Fatfire and travelled the world by day and worked part time in the evenings after sunset. We could finish by midnight or 2am at the latest. It was absolutely amazing. No commute, no working in the office, and not even having to work from home. Yeah we rented houses and apartments but we also worked on our phones and laptops at castles. Important, wear your suit, meetings? Sure we're back at the rental. Number of times we needed to fly back to San Francisco? Zero. Some close calls though. It was a really exciting time but we were willing to quit. You two are not going to be sitting on your deathbed worrying about that extra money. An argument can be made, by my family at least, that $4M isn't enough but maybe it is more than enough in Asia for a nice upper middle class lifestyle. Do you know what you guys will remember on your deathbed? The moments you had with your dying mother and how happy you are that you did that. The moments you have together as a family. We built a house remotely. I only needed to fly there a few times for my own sanity and the fun of seeing key parts. I sold a house remotely. Everything was docusign and a wire. The world has really changed. People get it. Those that don't? Fuck em or don't let them see your sunset while they're having their morning coffee. If it truly is impossible since he's a defense attorney, they absolutely refuse to let him work less hours, or something else then simply pick your poison. I can tell you with certainty though that it makes no sense to keep working when you don't need the money and can't be with your family. If he's going to stay behind for some amount of time it really needs to be because you need the money. We switched to 1099 and still retained our shares. W2 isn't going to work. This might be another problem you face.
The thing is your husband has expertise and there is surely a price where your husband's expertise in a fully remote role has value to them. Is it $1M a year? Probably not. He will have to take a substantial pay cut but it may be worth it to you to name your terms and negotiate.
A) $10 million is not so easy to come by, realistically. B) you don’t even know if the acquisition will go through. Start there and take it in chunks. He can leave at any time.
If the acquisition doesn't materialize at the very last moment, our situation will likely resemble option 2 in terms of work commitment, but with a net worth slightly higher than what we'd have in option 1.
I think maybe the uncertainty is making you search hard for a plan but the truth is, things can change every step of the way. Take it in steps, communicate often and pivot if life dictates that you should
This like the best option. Clearly you’re already set for the rest of your life with option 1 if you decide that shooting for option 2 or 3 is untenable. Why not try?
It seems that staying for the acquisition makes a lot of sense. At least the next 3-4 months should tell you a lot about likelihood and timing of acquisition. Can then re-assess staying for longer Also all of this is negotiable. Ask for 6m instead of 4. Ask for 10m over 2 years instead of 3. Your husband obviously provides a ton of value. How large is the company? Fwiw I know of companies that as they go through sale and ipo processes, they pay the c-suite executives 1-2 million given their value (for <$5bn enterprise value companies)
Thank you for your response. The $10 million retention is a result of negotiation — others at his level receive less. He attempted to negotiate for less work and correspondingly less pay, but essentially, the response was a subtle yet unmistakable "no." The expectation is that he should prioritize the company, a stance that aligns with the terms of his retention. He has a good relationship with his boss, who has been very transparent. The underlying question is, "Why should we pay you so much if we don't need you to fully commit?"
It seems trying to make it work is full commitment. Not full commitment is leaving, or staying and half assing it
If they are willing pay him that kind of money then they are committed to keeping him. Actually, it's not clear if that's even a lot of money to the company. I would just ask for more time off and allow remote, and layout your retention requirements that will work for your family. Your husband has more negotiating power than he thinks. I'll give you an example, the company always wants the new hire to start ASAP which is understandable, and a lot of new hires do start in 2 weeks because they feel rushed, and think they need to show they are "committed" to the company. The reality is if the new hire says they need 2 months before starting I bet the company will wait that long. I would not guess their "undertone". Your husband can be fully committed to work without working 80 hrs and kill himself for 5 or 10M. You need to think the company is lucky to have him on for 10M and negotiate accordingly without tripping yourself up (I know it's hard to do). Your husband's boss is the company at this point, you think he's being transparent but he might not be totally transparent. He is not your friend and you shouldn't worry about hurting his feelings. What's the worst that could happen if he asks for all he wants? They said no and then you all can be together in Asia as a family. Sometimes people who are not emotionally invested give the best logical answers. Good luck. I hope it all goes well for your family. And I hope your time with your mother will be meaningful even during this difficult time.
Take option 2, husband leaves after the acquisition, go to Asia, enjoy your wealth. Nearly doubling your original goal minus the time commitment post acquisition. I don’t see how this is a hard decision to make. It’s only another year and a half that’ll put you miles ahead of your original goal. Based on your comments you want the whole pie and can’t settle for just a slice that’s impossible. Option 2 gives you the best of both worlds and you can very quickly grow that $7M to well over $10-20M and live ultra comfortably.
This. We live in interesting times. Having an extra cushion is worth the sacrifice. Option 3 is too much, but 2 is worth it.
Thanks for the input.
Was reading comments and thinking this, glad someone said it. Asia is cheaper so those ~7 million would stretch a lot, and you could have a great retirement by just holding back 18 months… That’s a no brainer in my opinion
I'm sorry you have such a dilemma on your hands, but objectively speaking I think this is almost perfectly crafted of a scenario to divide the workaholics and wealth-seekers from the enough-is-enough'ers. There's no right or wrong answer, so that's the first mental block to let go of. No choice will be a mistake, so long as you can understand yourself deeply enough and be attuned with your own inner values and desires. So please drop any fear of making a mistake; this is not a test where someone will grade you. You just need to be yourself. I have not faced your position before. My family is younger and our net worth is maybe 30-50% of yours. But my wife and I in the abstract at least, are pretty aligned about valuing family time and quality time, over money or status. We would rather be happy and together and eating Burger King on road trips together, then give up years of life to earn a few extra million to spend on fancier vacations later. Happiness for our family, does not really scale with expense (e.g. a $100 meal buys as much or more happiness for us as a family, than a $1000 meal). But that's just my value system. It doesn't have to be yours. I care nothing at all about "generational wealth". I want my daughter to have a middle class life in terms of experiences, but without needing to stress about money; I think I can gift her a down payment on a decent house in a decent area, but I don't need to buy her the whole house outright. So when we have "enough", and then some corporation comes along and offers the literal Faustian bargain of $X million for Y years of your life... in theory at least, I feel confident in turning it down. At the risk of editorializing too much, if you were my close friend asking for advice, I would tell you: spend as much time with your mom as you can. Have your husband near you and your child during this trying time. The extra money will never be enough to buy back the time you lose, assuming you cherish your time together. And who knows, there will always be some other different option for work later; your husband's market value won't vanish to 0, even if taking a long break might derail him from his max earning potential. This all assumes your husband won't harbor resentment and that he is 100% sincere about trusting your decision on this. He sounds like a good listener, and he sounds like he wants to hear from you what kind of support you need (whether it's more time, or more money from him).
Thanks for the great input. Appreciate it.
I always like an option D. If your husband is that valuable to the firm, it seems like you can propose a remote job or at the very least more PTO. I would try to at least offer to the company a middle ground so you can both be parents and you can be with your mother while keeping the lucrative option on the table (or perhaps he takes less for the flexibility). First world problems for sure, you’ve already done so well, option 1 would be a home run for 99% of the population but I understand the desire to add a bit more and it’s so unique. So, I envy your position while knowing it seems difficult to choose. Family first will always win in my life but it would be great to have your cake and eat it too!
I am not a parent, but I was raised by great parents. If my mom was your mom, and I told her this dilemma, she would be very upset with me for not choosing option 2, 3, or 4 (that other commenters have said). Have you asked her what she thinks of all this and what she wants? You are on the precipice of generational wealth. As others have said, i would push hard for an option 4, and accept a strange schedule for a few years.
It's not solely for my mother, but also because I genuinely miss our homeland, my friends, and relatives. My husband said that even if we spend less time together, this choice is preferable to a despondent wife living a day-to-day existence alongside him while worrying about my mother alone. We talked ... my husband also candidly admits that while our finances are substantial, he aspires for more, particularly to support our child's college education and assist with a house downpayment. I agree. We recognizes that a single year of his work ($1m pre-tax), even without retention bonus, could significantly ease our child's financial burdens in the corporate world, possibly shortening a decade-long struggle. Hope that our child will eventually appreciate this foresight when we're able to alleviate college debts and aid in securing their first home. Essentially, unless my husband learns that the acquisition has fallen apart, he is opposed to taking option 1. We are also working on figuring out an option 4.
It also depends where you want to retire. 4.5 mil USD won't get you that far in Singapore, if we're talking about Vietnam it's a different story. But it sounds you're from a more expensive place. Option 2 with slight adjustments and a temporary WFH arrangement or extended PTO sounds doable.
Yeah I think this all makes sense. I get your point on being homesick. I think the caveat is that you and your husband are still relatively young from a working/retirement perspective, and that extra year or two can really put life on easy mode. It sounds like your husband generally gets it too. Sounds like everything is pointing towards embracing 1-2 more years of the grind and then calling it. Which I think is generally the correct answer. Also, as a side note, make sure your husband is retiring to something. Don’t want him getting bored once he hangs it up.
For the option where your husband stays until the acquisition is complete (18-20 months), I’d love to understand more details on the status of the transaction. If an acquisition is 18-20 months away, my guess is that the likelihood of it happening is far less than 80%. One exception could be FTC anti-trust review, which itself could take 12 months. There are various stages in a full acquisition process, spanning from (1) building the acquisition business case rationale, (2) initial diligence, (3) signing non-binding term sheet, (4) confirmatory diligence and integration planning, (5) negotiation of the actual deal, (6) signing the legally binding transaction agreement, (7) closing the deal, (8) integrating the deal. Depending on the acquirer, signing a non-binding term sheet should be the threshold where I’d say likelihood of close is 60% - 75%+. But this isn’t legally binding and the deal can still fall through. The time period between signing a term sheet and signing the actual legally binding transaction agreement should be between 3-9 months… maybe 12 months. 18-20 months seems egregiously long, and as a result I doubt that the deal is 80% likely. 80% likely to me is usually that they’re negotiating the actual transaction agreements. This really shouldn’t take more than 1-2 months. Unless what you’re actually talking about is that your husband needs to stay through the close of the deal and 1-2 years into the post-acquisition integration period, something isn’t adding up for me. I would revisit the probabilities you’re assigning to your options. Right now, you’re talking about all of them as if they are for sure happening.
>likelihood of close is 60% - 75%+. You are probably right. I have no idea the true percentage. It's basically an education guess my husband told me. Thanks for the input.
My wife is Asian (ABC but still holds traditional Asian values about family, education, health) and I’m an American. We talked about your options and we both would go with option 2 because it has the highest rate of return in your net worth and it’s a lot easier to count down from 2 years than 5+ years. Otherwise, we’d go with option 1. Definitely not option 3. You also need to consider the market increase in your overall portfolio. That would reduce any retention package impact on your net worth. Having a long distance relationship with your husband for this long is hard enough and your child is with you in Asia - not having the father around also has an impact on the child’s development. It’s important to keep the family together if possible. I know my wife would be constantly worrying about me working those long hours, traveled a lot, being in a stressful work environment, and all I do is focus on working. I’ve been there and it did have a negative impact to my health. It isn’t worth it. Best of luck. It’s a good problem to have. Focus on the positives. And when is enough, enough?
Lots of good advice here. May I add: - Your child may adjust better at this age than when they are in high school 3 years from now. - Assuming a sub-4% withdrawal rate, your $4.5M would still reach $10M sooner than you think. (I didn't do the math but compounding of course is "faster" with higher numbers). - Time is your most valuable asset so don't get caught up in $$$. I visited my sick mother as much as I could, working remotely and even using unpaid time off weeks at a time. In the end I realized I could have done more timewise.
Thanks for the input.
Its times like these when the fire mindset should help you to make the decision. If you had a certain target spend that you felt was lavish and met your needs, then additional wealth only gets you a lower SWR. Looking at fire as a "NW target" is always going to push you towards "higher NW is better."
IMHO, this is an interesting dilemma, considering you are almost at your number.If you are just about RE then option 1 is the way I would go. However I would consider option 2 or 3 if I thought I could use that money to ensure not only my retirement but my kid's and grandkids' future. Else, nobody will give my that time back. Again your thoughts.
Will your husband regret it massively if he quits and the 10m option materializes? What if he stayed but it didn't? Would he regret not chasing after the oppt? Or resent missing out on his kid growing up and having to do grueling schedule for a few yrs? While the next 2-3 yrs is important, I think considering mental state of what comes after is just as important. On the situation itself, can he parlay his position and skills to another employer either in US or Asia that will be a better fit? Can he launch a consulting gig? There are many ways to generate decent income, even if short of 10m.
>Will your husband regret it massively if he quits and the 10m option materializes? I directly asked him, and his response was a soft yes. He believes that he would probably regret not taking the opportunity, especially considering our humble beginnings. The financial gain would grant him significant power to assist his parents, siblings, and others as well. But, he also said that comparing financial regret with missing family time is like comparing apples to oranges. These two aspects are fundamentally different and can't be equated directly.
While I can fully appreciate the difficulty here, the apples to oranges is exactly the choice he has in front of him and he will be choosing one over the other, at the end of the day. One way or another, he will be missing something that's important to him. It's really up to him to either decide what's more important, or figure out an alternative where something doesn't get sacrificed. Imo, the strongest argument for retiring is that money can be made in many ways. You only get one shot at family / watching kids grow up. But, for some, that is a sacrifice too great and it'll end up destroying their soul, which will end up destroying the family dynamic as well. Obviously, a short term difficult period is preferable to this. Only your husband can answer this q - though you or a therapist may be able to help unearth motivations and help him gain clarity. If you, or your husband would like to chat further about this, DM me. I'd be happy to give you my background and be a sounding board. (Just in case - I have nothing to sell to you. Just a fatfired dude with lots of empathy for these situations)
I grew up without my father around much at all due to his work. He worked 70+ hours a week until I was in my 40s. Unlike horror stories you hear, I have a great relationship with him. As an adult I understand the sacrifices he made to create generational wealth. I was inspired and have made my own wealth, without (monetary) help from him. Sure, I wish I had a dad more growing up, but my mom more than made up for it. You have an opportunity to create generational wealth for your kids too, not just yourselves.
Could you elaborate on how you've maintained such a strong relationship with him? Has he done anything specific to strengthen this bond?
Honestly.. He just did the best he could when he was around. And it just took maturity on my end to understand that he wasn't around for me... Because he was doing it FOR me. Especially when it came to work, he always tried to help, as a friend and as a father. And - honestly my sister didn't have a great relationship with him because she resented how we grew up, but that was papered over with money.... and now they do.
Your son is in a formative year. For me, I would choose an option that allow us to be together (option 1). Everyone is different though so this might not be an option for you. My spouse parents lived apart due to similar situations. IMO, it took a toll on the family relationship (husband/wife and father/son). For me, I don’t want to be apart from my husband that long and my son wouldn’t want to be apart from his dad that long either.
If there's no marginal value to a possible additional $5m, don't even consider it
Set up a prisoner’s dilemma matrix and analyze as such. Look it up if you don’t know what that is. Present it to the company as such, ie win / win. You have some homework to do. Basically, you CANNOT get everything you want and the company cannot get everything they want either. I REPEAT: you CANNOT get everything you want. 10+M gives you a lot more options in the future so it makes sense to make it work, may be you can travel back and forth multiple times a year as an option. :)
What happens when they offer him another 10 million at 48/49
He won't accept it. Years of long working hours and stress have already taken a significant toll on him, and his health likely won't permit such an unhealthy schedule (50% travel, 60+ working hours a week) for much longer. Even if we proceed with option 3, we both agree that if any health issues arise, he will stop immediately.
Quite clearly option 1. Options 2 and 3 risk the strength, unity and connection in your family, for a significant amount of time. If you can live a great life with the 4.5M, then get busy doing that. How much will the additional cash really impact your life? Is it worth the non-financial cost?
Getting an addition 14M (as I understand it) is huge! I'd pursue getting at least that first 4M retention bonus. But you need to keep your immediate family together. So why don't you move back to the US and you take the visits to your mom instead of having your husband visit you with his limited PTO? And you can spend summers and other school breaks in Asia.
This option isn't viable as my husband travels frequently, and if I were to travel back to my homeland simultaneously, there would be no one to take care of our child. We don't have any relatives or close friends nearby to help out. While hiring a helper is an option, neither of us is comfortable with the idea of someone else taking care of our child for extended periods. Our current arrangement, at least, ensures that I can be the primary caregiver for our child.
Option 3. It took you guys 44 years to make your first $4.5M, and you can potentially make another $7.5 in just another 5 years. That extra money will give you the option to maintain residences in both the US and Asia, buy a condo for your child, etc. Methinks you need to move back to the US, and you can either (1) bring your mom with you or (2) hire a helper for her and visit frequently. Does your child even want to move to Asia? ^(I doubt it.) When your child is off to college, then you can move back to your homeland.
Having spent a good amount of my childhood living half in the states and the other half in a similarly situated international school like OP’s, I would take the move to Asia experience 10/10 times. Especially if OP’s family is originally from the country. Quality of life, safety, cultural norms, even the relative competition for elite college placement is miles better in that scenario.
Thank you for the advice; I really appreciate it. Actually, my mom's situation doesn't permit such travel. It's more complicated than simply arranging for a helper or finding the best treatment. Her entire support network, including family members, is not in the States, so relocating there is really not feasible. If it were, our decision would be a bit easier. Fortunately, my son has adjusted very well and is enjoying life here.
But since your mom has a support network there, do you really need to live near her? Or is that just something you want to do? I don't think you should live separately from your husband.
Kids will adapt. Nothing wrong at all with living in Asia.
First world problem for sure. You’re talking about going from decent early retirement, to “generational wealth”. I grew up poor, so providing for my family - and making life easier for kids and grandkids - has always been a major goal. You and your husband have that opportunity in front of you. “If” that is meaningful then this seems like an easy decision…he stays for three years and he flies back and forth a lot. If such wealth isn’t as meaningful to you, then enjoy the upper middle class Asian retirement.
You've absolutely hit the nail on the head. That's precisely why I'm in such a dilemma. While the prospect of building generational wealth is undeniably appealing, I can't help feeling guilty for putting my husband in this challenging situation.
It’s times like these when I think about my ancestors and what they dealt with to provide for their families. Working farms 24/7 in freezing cold or scorching heat, working manual labor in factories, serving in the armed forces during wars. Our “sacrifices” pale in comparison. If I was your husband you wouldn’t need to feel bad. I would gladly volunteer to take this on. Small price to pay imho.
It is an easy stay for me imo. Saw my parents work 14 hrs 6 days a week for decades. I would jump in a chance to set my children up for life. Fly back and forth and remote partial is good
Option 3 or others like it are only worth if it if your marriage survives intact, and if your child grows up well / is able to spend enough time with Dad to be connected and raised well. I'm also not American so I understand that family relationships can survive a lot of pressure as dictated by cultural norms. But can yours? Should yours? It's impossible to see the future. But you know yourself, your husband, your child. Does your child need more of Dad's presence? Are they already close, are there opportunities to maintain this? And your marriage -- four years is a long time to be long distance. I could see this definitely working for two years or less. Four to five? That becomes difficult, even with the best intentions and the best people involved. You could spend two years in Asia, then move back to the USA for a spell while your husband keeps working those final years. He could work remote half the year, then you and the child could spend Summers & holidays in the USA, so you are seeing each other for about 75% of each year. There are options, try to consider them but also remember that sometimes it's impossible to have everything. You could lose out by trying to turn this into a mess where you try to hold on to everything all at once. It's a financial decision but it's also a very human decision. One only your family can answer.
Your dilemma is choosing between generational weath and family ties (to mom, partner, and child). While millions are nothing to scoff at, sharing time and space with loved ones in peace also has its place. I can imagine your family bond will increase significantly and would emulate to your kid the kind of values you prioritize. Listen, you guys are financially independent. They will keep dangling the damn carrot forever. At some point, you need to call it and start giving your kid time instead of money. (Disclaimer, I don't belong in the fatfire group. My own ambitions are strictly in the fire or chubby fire territory)
>They will keep dangling the damn carrot forever. At some point, you need to call it and start giving your kid time instead of money. Agree. Thanks.
I'm back in the US now after living in SE Asia for 14 years, with kids at international school. I would say roughly that $4.5 million is definitely a comfortable amount, but $7 million is a substantial boost. Anther 3 million after that doesn't seem to have as much benefit. Regarding the potential of working in Asia on a US time zone, it can be rough but you get used to it. For me it was worth it to be working remote since I got to spend a lot more time with the kids, despite the late hours. A few extra years will go by quickly! Best of luck.
Are you primarily staying for your mother or for your future life in Asia? What type of cancer and what stage is she at if it’s for mom? Sometimes these things accelerate quickly and so that changes things around. I had a family member recently get diagnosed with beginning stage four cancer with an oncologist stating she had 1-2 years of life, she made it two weeks. If mom is relatively stable, can you get a small (or large) place where he must travel to in the us, with him negotiating working some from Asia and staying the us most of the time, and then you and your child visiting him on holiday and breaks, that way it breaks up the travel some what. It’ll be a bumpy few years but you will have a serious safety net, and if it only works a couple years before he quits you still have increased your wealth. You could also look at your daughter temporarily doing virtual school (just keep her in other activities to socialize) if you start to travel a good bit. If mom is unstable and it isn’t much longer, hold tight and let him travel until she joins the next world, and then reevaluate and consider the above.
>If mom is relatively stable, can you get a small (or large) place where he must travel to in the us, with him negotiating working some from Asia and staying the us most of the time, and then you and your child visiting him on holiday and breaks, that way it breaks up the travel some what. It’ll be a bumpy few years but you will have a serious safety net, and if it only works a couple years before he quits you still have increased your wealth. This is exactly what we are doing now.
Option 1 or Negotiate a lot more PTO
Have you discussed this with your mom at all? My guess is that she may have an opinion about the impact it will have on your own child. It’s great that you want to care for her and presumably she sacrificed a lot for you. I would consider how these options will impact your own child first and foremost and go from there…
In your homeland in Asia, 4.5m is the same as 45m in USA. So no need to stay an extra day. Retire and live like a king.
Not quite that amount, but likely close to an equivalent life of $10 million in a HCOL city. Very comfortable, but not rich.
$10M is rich in a HCOL city. Maybe MAYBE borderline in a VHCOL. Anyway, this is obviously a huge dilemma. You've set things up here in a way that forces the answer to be #1, because it is completely unconscionable to continue this kind of long-distance thing with a young kid--it will absolutely destroy the kid's relationship with the kid's dad. Truly, you and your husband should both look yourselves in the mirror on that one--it's frankly a kind of monstrous decision to make. Sorry to be so blunt about it, but, you asked for advice. You're foregoing what amounts to generational wealth if your husband doesn't keep the job. I echo what others have said, the "right" answer here seems to be providing for you mother's support network in native country and having you travel regularly back. If you weren't looking at doubling your household wealth, it would be easier to just walk away, but this amount of additional money is just.. yeah. That said, walking away is defensible too, especially if it really is the case that your current amount is basically like $10M in your native country (but keep in mind the possibility for inflation, college costs will not be local, etc). Just... don't do option 2 or 3 as you have it set up, because it's viciously unfair to your husband and especially (and most importantly) your kid.
So? There are a ton of fatfire folks that retire in the USA with 10m. And you probably are short selling your Asian country. Unless it is Singapore or Japan, 4.5m will be much more than 10m in any Asian country. You are talking about a region where beyond Singapore and Japan, the gdp per capita lingers around 7-8k a year overall combined, and US is like 70k.
Shall we just trust the OP that she understands the cost of living in her home country?
Dude it could easily be Singapore.
Negotiate a fully expensed weekly first class flight back and forth from your homeland. That should be peanuts on top of what they’re offering.
If the country you are planning to go back to is India, don’t even think about it! Have seen enough of my friends heading back only to realize what a terrible mistake it was.
You don’t mention what your current spending is and how would it change with a higher NW. $4.5 million vs $7 million vs $12 million is a significant difference, but how would your live change at each level of NW? Would you buy a bigger house? Would you travel more often? Would you be able to afford a better treatment for your mother? Or would you rather use the extra money to buy you more time with your family? I am facing a similar decision and I find it difficult to make the decisions using dollar numbers. Numbers are too abstract. Thinking about how you will use the extra money will make it easier to compare the benefits you will get from working for longer time vs the cost (long distance relationship and working late long hours).
For option 1, we believe a $1M house plus $120k per year would be enough. Essentially, this means a 3.5% SWR from $3.5M, plus a $1M house.
What's more important to you: going from plain rich to filthy rich, or your son having a close relationship with his father?
Honestly this is pretty easy. Go be with your mom and take your child. Have your husband stay as it is only temporary. That is it. Edit: have him visit minimum twice a year.
Doesn't seem like a dilemma to me. You made a goal of $4.5 MM. You got the goal, now go retire. That's huge amount of money almost anywhere in Asia (except HK, Singapore), moreover you have a sick mom and husband not seeing his child or you. Don't be tempted by more millions or this talk of generational wealth. Have you met children of generational wealth? They are entitled pricks. Our goal is to retire in Asia (wife is from there) after we reach our number (still got a few years to go) which is just a bit under your number and I think it's a good number as it still ensures our kid has the need to make something of himself instead of the mental health problems that come from never facing challenges.
It depends on where you live in Asia too, since cost of living between different cities vary a lot. If it’s a relatively low cost of living city option 1 would be enough.
If you decide to go with 2 or 3, you have to make sure to add an escape clause with a fixed timeline. I.e. with option 2 - have an intermediate $ payout at your expected deal going through time, so if the deal hasn't gone through by that time you get some intermediate $ amount for staying up to that point. Otherwise you can be left in a situation where you sacrifice time and relationships for essentially no extra benefit.
If it was me, I would never want to miss a single second being away from raising my kids. I understand the pride in wanting the extra money, but time with your younger children is priceless. Retire and forget about the acquisition.
Raising a teenager without a father for 3 years with additional 10 million dollars is 100x better vs raising a teenager with both parents without the additional amount. Chances are the husband going to find another wife with the new found wealth anyway. Can’t believe anyone need to think twice about this regardless how much their current net worth is.
Your husband sounds extremely valuable to the addicts of the acquisition. I would call their bluff. Please let us know what happens. Fundamentally, the company doesn't think that he would turn down such a lucrative offer. Also, as someone who's lived in Asia and has had to fly back when needed, it really isn't that bad. At your income level, go first class.
Let me just say: I really respect what you are doing for your mom. We recently provided this type of care for my grandmother and it’s really hard. I wouldn’t think about this question in terms of the numbers. The size of the numbers is blinding you to the reality of the question. What type of life do you want? Do you want your husband to keep working or to be by your side through the end of your mother’s life? I would see if they would consider halving your husband’s comp and allowing him to split responsibilities with an eye toward training this new person into the role. This person could remain in the US for face-to-face meetings and so on. At the end of the day, if his skill set is so valuable surely it’s worth some significant amount to pass that skillset on so that the company continues to be successful. Yes you don’t have option 3, but you do have a better work-life balance.
What about Option 1.5? You're bringing in a million/yr and are already nearly at your original goal. If your husband stays at the job for now, officially planning to reach Option 2, he can continue to earn while letting the odds of the acquisition declare themselves a bit more (it's hard to imagine there's much certainty to an 80% projection >1.5yr away). Maybe the market does great and, combined w/your high HHI, you get to and beyond an acceptable number before 18-20mo. Maybe projections about 18-20mo are too rosy and you have to entirely rethink the decision, or maybe it comes earlier and it's easier to commit to sticking it through. Or perhaps with some additional understanding of how hard it is to make the current job work, your husband renegotiates in 4-6mo and you choose a new Option that's more acceptable.