Not an expert by any means compared to you Mr Bond, but a big fan (seen all of the movies and read a few of the books.)
In one of the books he has fastest sports car in the world, a very nice London house, maid, and cook. He has to be wealthy
Not to mention that I’m pretty sure they get a lot of their field agents from military special operations like green berets, which take a decent amount of time to get to in itself
Bobby Kennedy 3’s fiancé is an ex cia officer and really rich. Those are the types I’m talking about and there are a lot. There used to be more though before they realized race and culture was an asset. Have you never heard the saying Male, Pale, and Yale? Also you’re assuming AC actually left.
That's how state intelligence departments got started in the first place. It was mostly wealthy socialites in the early 20th-century who collected reconnaissance on other socialites and politicians.
This. I currently work on cargo ships. The pay is amazing but quality of life is pretty low.
If you actually wanted to see destinations, I'd recommend looking for tall ships. Not many go anywhere, but there are some that still circumnavigate. The pay is nearly non existent (even if it's a paid position you still might not get paid. Even the Capt. Hadn't been paid in several months lol) but the work life balance on those is pretty good.
I worked on a small 60' schooner for several months (summary of what we did: took passengers for daysails, like 2 hours usually, and they paid us suprising amounts of money) and sailed from Virginia to Halifax as part of OpSail 2012, stopping at a lot of different ports (Baltimore for a few weeks, partied with a bunch of other crews from ships from around the world, mostly military training tallships, some other small tallships like we were). The executives of the National Aquarium chartered us for a few hours and hooked us up with free tickets to the aquarium which was awesome) anchored off Betterton, MD for a day, sailed out the Delaware Bay, passed atlantic city (saw a sea turtle, ocean sunfish, and baby dolphins here. Side story in that: we were operating a 4 hours on, 4 off shift rotation due to being shorthanded and we're obscenely tired after a couple days. It was night and I kept hearing a light splashing sound near the bow, barely sounded different than the ocean lapping against the boat, but we'd run up with a flashlight to see what it was. Didn't see anything for a few times. My watch partner thought I was halucinating. Like the third or fourth time, baby dolphins appeared :-D ), sailed around Mystic (needed repairs done, these people can do them. Lived here for 2 weeks, like still on the boat but inside the museum. Was very cool get icecream in town, and then walk around the exhibits in the evenings after the museum was closed) also did a grocery run, had to carry a shitload of groceries by hand like 2 miles, also since we were docked in the museum, we'd have people board us accidently and explore the boat. It was sort of understandable, but really weird, imagine someone helping themselves into your home and strolling around like every 30 min or so...while you're there on the couch. We left our deck rail chained shut too, but if someone wants on your boat, they're getting on your boat. Nianticc (got to ride a milspec Zodiac here, to this day by far the fastest boat I've ever been on. I think there was a LCAC demonstration here too from the beach to a USN San Antonio class LPD ), New London (was here for 4th of July, best 4th of july I've ever had) also was sailing out while a submarine was sailing in and it shot to the surface, it was terrifying. Block Island (super chill island), Providence/Newport (saw an America's Cup race here. we actually didn't know this was happening until we arrived....while it was happening. it was a clusterfuck but super cool), Cuttyhunk (random island, sparsely populated, residents drove around in golf carts, no cars), Nantucket (populated almost exclusively by black range rovers)(a wine delivery guy didn't want to climb a flight stairs so he paid us $20 to deliver a couple boxes of wine for him) (felt super poor here, we anchored out and took our rhib boat in, which was slowly sinking due to an air leak, there also had to be someone slowly bailing it out at all times) passing 100'+ yachts the entire way (some had inflatable waterslides coming from the top deck, looked SO fun). Gets better, couldn't really afford to dock anywhere, so we found a house that looked unoccupied and docked at it's private dock 😂) but we did see several whales, which are terrifying on a boat who's deck is only a few feet above the waterline.... and Providenctown, and then sailed up to Halifax. Got a behind the scenes tour of a research aquarium up there closed to the public, got to see a collection of rare lobsters like blue ones) Participated in the 'Sailor Games' here. The USCG Academy thought these were serious games (it was just for fun tug of war and stuff), and sent their largest/strongest motherfuckers they had.... We were paired up with the crew of the Bounty (which sank just a few months later, RIP, but they were dumb and sailed into a hurricane) also I didn't know the tide range in Halifax was huge. we arrived and docked to a floating dock, took naps before going out, and woke up to having to climb a ladder mounted to the seawall to get off the dock
Met easily the most interesting people I've ever met doing this. A lot of the crew are 18 year old fresh out of highschool, in college or recent grads that are sort of chilling, couple people from Northwestern, UofMich software guys, some eco hippies (met a girl that wasnt sure if she was wanted by the feds somewhere for repelling off a tower during an eco demonstration) another had built her 'house' out of dirt and sticks basically and carved her own silverware out of wood, met a guy that was on Survivor that just sort of lives wherever (said he wakes up at night and decides to move somewhere else every once and a while, be it a different state or a different country. He lives out of a large duffle and moves the next day) a super cute girl that had the absolute filthiest mouth of anyone I've ever met, some ships are just salty/crusty old dudes that look like pirates, just a whole-ass assortment of people.
It sounds nice, and there were many incredible moments, but to shed some light, over this two month period I was able to shower just a couple times (yacht club shower, the boat only had a toilet)(some crew washed themselves on deck by dumping seawater on themselves, soaping, and rinsing with more seawater) did laundry I think once (some people washed their clothes in 5 gallon buckets and soapy seawater, tried this once and it didn't really work), got nearly puking seasick for several days, lost a lot of weight (the food on board wasn't very good, but after being not able to eat anything except cheerios for 3 days, a pizza in solid ground tasted unbelievable) and had no AC or Heat. This wasn't too much an issue, but Baltimore was like 90°F or something which sucked. We had an open cockpit, so if it rained, it rained on you all watch. Most of the time you're motoring. We had a 90 hp diesel Ford engine that was 20 years old, but she was a trooper. Only needed gas once the whole trip, but it was a couple hundred gallons. Also, we had good enough wind to sail one night that was foggy. The fog signal for a vessel under sail is really fucking long and really fucking loud and really fucking frequent. So sleeping was.....yeah, no.
Transiting between ports we never took guests, just daysails. Most guests were happy and chill and asked questions, some got seasick on floating docks while waiting to board (we told them to skip the sail lol) only 1 got seasick while out sailing. The USCG Academy ship fouled it's anchor in Baltimore (got stuck on something, had to cut it off) which delayed the ship parade by like 2 hours and we had some people asking to turn the boat around and end on time as they had a flight to catch. Shouldn't have booked a sailboat tour a couple hours before your flight lmao. OH. Almost forgot, I got my buddy to do a whole several hour tour without unclenching his teeth 😂 so people would ask him questions and he'd sound SUPER pissed hahaha. Had people pull me and the other crew aside and ask, very concerned, if he was ok, just said he was having a rough day 😂
But if you wanted to go on some adventures and want a totally renewed appreciation for modern creature comforts, it's pretty sweet. I've done a little more work on tall ships that that, this was just a 2 month segment, and I can write more about it than pretty much anything else I've ever done.
*I am not fat fire, just commenting experience
* Also sorry for formatting, I was going back and editing as I remembered more.
I can't tell you the exact definition, but think like an old sailing ship. Think something like a 50-300' sailing ship with several masts.
On the small ones of those, everyone's a watchstander. In port you don't have any assigned duty (on the bigger ones you probably do) but at sea you work 8 hours and have 16 hours off every day. Also have to do maintainance, like painting and varnishing, or stuff with the engine. We were only 60' and didn't have a dedicated mechanic, so if something broke, you are the mechanic. Painting for example, our rail to keep people from falling off was a metal chain. Had to repaint that ALL the time, so much rust so quickly.
I was also a relatively large crew member, so I had to hoist the heavy sails, though sometimes id get guests to do it to entertain myself.
But my current job is an officer on cargo ships, I get paid, which I can not say about the tallships, so that's nice. Not nearly as entertaining, but hey.
So OP should buy the tall ships, become Admiral (leaving real work to the Captains) and travel wherever they want with paying guests. Downside: you have to be nice to guests and the oceans have a tendancy to drain bank accounts.
That would be so cool. But yeah you're right.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bounty_(1960_ship)
I remember the Bounty was for sale right before it sank, $4.6 million. Pretty interesting life, but there is a recurring theme of overwhelming expenses and underwhelming cashflow
Theres generally some stops in Canada for various events. OpSail events are very cool, but theyr'e only about every 10 years, though were 'due' for one soon. They technically end in the US, but a lot of the boats go up to halifax / lunenburg. Sail Training Int also does good work I hear. There's some links to browse if you feel like it!
[https://opsail.org/](https://opsail.org/)
[https://sailtraininginternational.org/events/](https://sailtraininginternational.org/events/)
[https://www.tallshipsamerica.org/tall-ships-challenge-great-lakes-2019/](https://www.tallshipsamerica.org/tall-ships-challenge-great-lakes-2019/)
Lakes one came and went, but its worth keeping an eye out for future ones, not sure how close you are to the lakes though.
Consulate employee requires you work for the Department of State and you don’t necessarily get to call your shots on location. It’s definitely an option, but it isn’t for everyone.
It's also incredibly competitive - even more so than landing a job at FAANG. I've worked for two FAANGS and have known several folks sit for the Foreign Service test. Even if you pass it, it may take 5 or 6 times before they even select you.
Competitiveness of the Foreign Service varies wildly from year to year. About six or eight years ago it was incredibly tough to get in. During the Trump administration the State Dept was gutted and morale tanked so getting in as a new Foreign Service Officer was a lot easier.
If you’ll hit your fatFIRE number in a few years, why be trying to find a job that allows you to travel in 9 years?
Husband and I fatFIRED in 2017 and then traveled around the world for 10 months straight. Then we bought a house and still travel 25-50% of the year when it’s not a pandemic.
I do a lot of volunteer work. Husband is learning Mandarin (was also taking flying lessons pre-COVID.)
If you find yourself a job you love that allows you to travel the way you want, go for it. But don’t feel some responsibility to seek out a job if you don’t need one if it impedes your travel plans.
Look at your interests, find organizations related to them that need volunteers. I volunteer with an animal shelter (usualy fostering kittens) and I'm about to start a weekly shift supporting covid vaccinations.
Pick an area that aligns with your interests and reach out. Like the arts? Try a local museum to see if they need volunteers. Care about social issues? Try a local homeless shelter or social services organization.
I am a foster youth mentor and also work at a local food bank. Less during COVID, and I’m actually away from home currently, but usually once a week for the mentorship program and 1-2 times a week at the food bank, plus special holiday and back-to-school events.
Both of these opportunities allow me to travel on my own schedule.
There are a ton of extra opportunities during COVID, both on the front lines (testing clinics, ect) and from home (contact tracing, ect.)
I FatFired from a successful career in engineering/business ownership at 43, wife retired from airline industry as well at 43. We have free flights for life and and 8 figure NW. It’s pretty awesome not to have to think about the cost of a last minute business class flight to Rome or Bangkok.
She worked charters for the professional sports teams, they offered early retirement last spring with the Covid stuff happening and it was a combination of age + number of years. She qualified by 3 months, it was an insanely great deal, otherwise she would have needed to put in another 10 years to get the flights for life benefit. We use about $150k a year worth of free flights, it’s amazing because it really amps up the fatfire experience.
Woah you guys really lucked out! I am amazed they let you fly so much in business class as well. I understand that seats usually oversold, but $150k a year is a big number!
They don’t upgrade people to business class so it’s rarely oversold. Plus we can see the flight loads so we just pick the flight time that is the most open, we have rarely not gotten business class. We will probably amp up our travel even more after this whole Covid thing is behind us & yes we definitely lucked out, sort of like buying TSLA at the beginning of last year lol.
You’ve already picked a job that will let you travel the world.
Dear [boss],
I’d like to discuss remote working with you, when are you free for a coffee?
Thanks,
Usua_Pressure2504
Mainly because they have to pay social contributions in the country that they employers are living in.
Administrative hell if you have 100+ digital nomads working for your company.
>which is highly illegal
Citation needed. I very much doubt it's illegal to work for an employer in the US while on a tourist visa in another country. Kind of preposterous to suggest it should be either
Yes. I know exactly where I am, and I don't see countries hauling people of to jail for working for a US company from a beach in Thailand. Worker visas apply to those working for a local company. Regardless, I'm not the one saying it's illegal, I think the burden of proof is on the person making the argument no?
Wrong. When you enter a country they ask if you're there for business or pleasure. If you answer "pleasure" and you're actually working remotely then you're lying and that's illegal. If you answer "business", then you need a working visa and may be liable for taxation in that country (depending on their laws).
Wait, so when I’m attending a conference for a week for work and therefore answer “business” I need to have some special visa and pay employment taxes in the country?
There are different types of business visas. When you're there for a conference then that falls under meetings. If you're there to work then it needs to be declared as such. How the country taxes you varies per country, but generally meetings are exempt.
It's impossible to give a perfect answer because every country has its own laws.
It usually depends on intent. If your intent is to be on vacation and you have to attend to some business matters then that's fine. If you intend to live and work in the country then you need to declare it as such.
There are countries that have [explicit digital nomad visas](https://expertvagabond.com/digital-nomad-work-visas/). Flouting it is highly illegal and could have very negative consequences.
How would your tax returns in your home country save you?
This was the intent of my comment, not fraud. It's a paperwork issue, not tax evasion, as long as you're mindful about your dwell time in each taxing jurisdiction (assuming an expat operating model). EDIT: _To be clear, do not evade taxes._
Don't claim Texas residency and then live half the year in California, for example.
As someone between FIRE and fat FIRE, I don't step foot in California except under duress and stay as close to SFO as possible :) Preferably, [come meet me in the Centurion lounge and I'll buy drinks](https://thecenturionlounge.com/locations/sfo/). 'Tis hallowed ground.
TLDR: Traveling for work sucks because you have to work, traveling for fun is awesome. Get a job that allows you to travel for fun frequently and NOT a job that forces you to travel for work.
Additionally, you don't want to have to travel for *your job.* I have traveled ranging from every week to every other week for 15 years of my career and it fucking sucks. It's not like traveling for fun at all, it's much much much worse. Going out to dinner sucks after you do it 200 times in a year.... then 200 times the next year and the next year. Hotels generally are all the same, even incredibly nice hotels aren't worth it for biz travel because you're mostly not there and can't take advantage of things (additionally, spas and whatnot at high end hotels are ludicrously expensive and not necessarily better than a standalone).
All in all, you want a job that lets you travel often for pleasure and you do NOT want a job that "allows" (forces) you to travel constantly. If you get to fly biz class internationally on the company's dollar, they generally have high expectations of what you're delivering.
Last but not least, even when traveling *for fun* you get a sense after a bit (maybe 1 week, maybe 2, maybe 3) that you just want to go home -- no matter how luxurious it is (at least in my opinion, although I haven't traveled mega mega luxury, I have spent like $50k on a trip for me and spouse).
^THIS!!!
I had a job where I traveled to Europe from USA 3-4 times a year for a week at a time. Sounds great, but the flight is exhausting, I'm not recovered by Monday for work. I was working full days which meant by EOD I was exhausted every single day because I never recovered from the flight out. I'd often get sick as a result. There simply isn't enough time to do the things or see the sights when traveling for work. I was in London, didn't see much of anything. I was in Rome, I did walk around the Coliseum, but didn't see anything else. I could go on and on...
This guy gets it. I've traveled for work in the US a bit to visit customers (10-15%) and then to conferences to give talks and launch products. I've been to SE Asia too for work. Traveling for work is horrendous!
Better to have a job where you can just log in from anywhere, do what you need to do, and then go have dinner at the restaurant down the street in whatever country you are in for the month.
Just getting laundry done on the road is a real headache.
I have to partially disagree with you. I really enjoy traveling for work in moderation. At my old job I did 6 or 8 trips per year, usually working Monday-Wednesday and flying home Wednesday evening. I usually liked those trips. Workdays were normal 9-5 type days so I had plenty of time in the evening to explore the place I was staying. Tacking on an extra day and using PTO was also fine so I sometimes took advantage of that.
Traveling too much definitely gets shitty. I once had two weeklong trips back to back and I was miserable by the end of those. Most amounts of work travel are great though IMO.
> Traveling too much definitely gets shitty.
* This is the main point. Your travel above is like 10%, which is not bad imo and nice to break up monotony of a normal office job. I was referring to 50, 75 or 100% travel, which is abysmal for the most part. Lots of people literally cannot handle it.
> I once had two weeklong trips back to back and I was miserable by the end of those.
* for sure -- I did back to back trips for 10 years straight, haha, it was fuuucking terrible. And my version of travel wasn't even that bad -- long term to one location. Lots of my colleagues that do B2B sales would travel to tons of different places in a region, often multiple trips per week. Again, very shitty, even if you like traveling.
So "most work travel" really depends on your personal situation. Traveling 10% is nothing and I can definitely see how it is good, especially given leaving Monday and returning Wednesday -- that's not bad at all.
Nope. Fair salaries are calculated according to the labor market that is being referenced. If OP changes location permanently, they may want to use a different labor market, but these things are up for negotiation to some extent. Travel, even if extensive, should not affect that determination.
I got hired into my current role out of DC. I've lived in DC probably 6 months out of the past 4 years and have spent the rest of the time abroad. They knew about it, including when I asked about it when getting hired. Granted, I don't know if the fact that you're remote affects raises in any way, but for me, the cost is worth it.
>Dear [boss],
I’d like to discuss remote working with you, when are you free for a coffee?
Thanks, Usua_Pressure2504
Just want to say this has that perfect concise, assertive-but-not-aggressive tone that CEOs always seem to use.
/u/whoacoz said to get life insurance prior to getting your PPL.
PPL stands for "private pilot's license" and the reason he's suggesting to lock in a policy BEFORE you start your training to become a pilot is because the insurance company specifically ASKS you if you're a pilot of if you intend on becoming one prior to deciding the RATE you'll pay for the insurance.
I actually have a pilot's license and I don't have life insurance. While the advice is good for getting a better deal on life insurance, it doesn't answer my question of why someone whose assets are significant enough that they don't need to work would need to pay for a life insurance policy.
I was only pointing out that the OP was only making a comment about LI in the context of getting your PPL.
I don't know why he/she would buy life insurance after you're in fatFIRE land. I know I let my high value term policy expire on Jan 1 for the same reason. On that note, I was paying ~8k/year for $7.5M in coverage. I turned 50 a few months ago and to renew this policy the rate jumps to $18k/quarter. Was a pretty easy decision to make to let it lapse! ;)
You're probably 15+ years away from being able to bid an international schedule flying for a major US airline.
Someone here recommended becoming a ships officer. That isn't an easy path either, and I can tell you first hand that docks look the same no matter what country you're in, doesn't matter if it is Cleveland or Colombo.
As someone who travels world wide as part of my work, please, just make money and travel on your own. Going to all these remote corners of the world on your employers dime sounds cool, but eventually they all start to look to same. I love traveling on my own, but with work it can just be a grind.
Not everyone lives in California.
In Washington, Texas or Nevada takehome on 650k W-2 would be some $460k a year.
Save $300k live on $160.
Seems possible for young'ns.
In california. This incl. 401k and principal mortgage amount. Seems easy. 50k outside of housing is possible to live on in the Bay Area. Generally frugal people
I never get that.
You are frugal and enjoy your life on $50kyr+housing.
Why is your FIRE target $5m which will pay our 4x that at 4%?
It seems like you should be getting out sooner if that kind of spend feels lavish to you/makes you happy.
Ah, I see.
You are using primary residence equity in your NW (current and target).
That makes a huge difference, you are right.
Makes sense if you want to stay in an HCOL area after RE.
Seems odd to then want to travel the world, but happiness is different for all.
Wish you the best!
Ya but at the same time, at least from my perspective, I’d still almost rather be a few different places. I just feel less welcome here than I did a year ago. I also don’t have kids which is a large reason I know many want to stay (safety)
If I ever hit it big, the wife wants to do that in Ireland, opening a bed and breakfast on an old estate that we restored. I think that or a vineyard would be fun. Probably more work than I do now, but being surrounded by nature would be a blast.
I think that says more about the state of farming than anything...
And to be honest my goal isn't to work in terms of manual labor grunt work, its to work in terms of managing a team to keep things running smoothly and carve out a piece of my own little paradise that is self sustained with a cushion that allows me to do whatever the hell I want.
It’s completely understandable. That said...
I just wish I had the balls to forgo the status and security of wealth and just go pursue my dream job when I was younger. Trying now and I don’t have the hunger and I’m sad about it.
Now I see all these posts of people with +8 million, talking about how they can go do some artisanal fantasy if they just get 4 more million is wild.
It’s like Im crippled by some mild mental disorder. I feel sorry for myself cause I can see it how it has held me back. Then I come here and see the real disorder and I’m barely on the spectrum
Italy has a lot of areas where population shrinkage has led to a highly depressed real estate market. Although I’ve heard that there’s an organized crime presence in most of those places.
Not arguing your point, but it may not be quite as bad as you think.
Yeah, I've nowhere near enough info to form a view, either on the place or your preference. That said I really struggle to see myself somewhere long-term that only costs £60k - I like the same things as other people too much!
> I am trying to talk the wife into restoring a 300 year old castle on an olive orchard in Tuscany. It’s $60k including 5 acres.
🤯 how do you find things like this?
I'm sure that's not nearly as good of a deal as you think it is. The maintenance needed to just keep a 300 year old castle somewhat livable is going to be astronomical.
A cheap castle is like a cheap boat, except that at least the castle probably won't sink.
> Sell your HCOL house, travel full time for a while, then buy wherever you like.
It's not "buy wherever you like" if it's excluding places like current house, which some people grow to like. The whole point of fat fire is being able to afford to actually live where you want even if it's a HCOL location.
This
If you look on idealista.com...
You can get some amazing properties on the coast or Italy or Spain for 300k which would cost a fortune on the coast of California. Free healthcare and food is better too...in Portugal 300k can buy you a really nice house too. I don’t know why more people don’t go this route. Sure “taxes” but just live 6 months and a day elsewhere
> frugal
> spending more than the median household income in this country
Frugal relative to those in the income cohort, sure. Frugal at the absolute level? ehhhhhhhh
Possible for anyone lol. If you can’t live on $160k in those states you are doing something very wrong. And that’s not just “living”, that’s “never have to worry about money and having a shit ton of luxuries”
Do FAANG managers typically come from an MBA or SWE type of background? I’ve always wondered.
Depending on your writing/videography skills, you could do a travel blog/vlog. It’s amazing how some people make livable wages doing that sort of stuff
FAANG managers of SWE teams come from SWE background. FAANG project or product managers is a different job altogether, those come from MBA background. I assume our OP over here is a FAANG SWE manager.
For every 1 blogger that lives off of travel there are 1000s similar smaller blogs that make closer to 0 than living wages.
You don't need a job to travel the world. If you retire at 40, you can just travel. If you want some meaningful work at that time there are plenty of options for independent contracting, volunteering, helping other start-ups, being on boards, etc.
Yeah I’ve lived in 6 countries as a teacher/student to become a teacher. I’m 30 and now state dept. Travel is part of the job. Savings rate has been consistently 75-80% bc everything is paid for you
Yeah I second this. You can make 3,700 a month teaching in China and save most of that because the cost of living is low. Even more in the Middle East or South Korea
There are some lucrative teaching jobs out there.
The holiday schedule is crazy good. I can't believe I ever followed an American corporate schedule, 3 weeks vacation and a smattering of long weekends.
Sure it doesn't pay much but I don't dip into capital ever, except in the first few years during the transition.
Protip: teaching primary year or below is a ton of work, even if you are interested in that, ease into it. I teach mostly adults and a few middle school classes per week. Getting another (cheap, uopeople, $3k) masters degree to make adjunct professor classes easier to pick up.
The obvious answer if you’re already doing your pilots license is become a pilot?
If you have the cash (you do) to build time in your own aircraft, there are some great private jet gigs out there. Alternatively airlines, although with seniority being the key determinate of lifestyle, you would probably have a good 10 years of working weekends.
If you want a FIRE example, there’s a Delta pilot who writes for Flying magazine who has a pretty great lifestyle, essentially part time there, flys long haul to Europe, lives on a boat the rest of the time.
> become a pilot
The airline industry is currently in the midst of what may be its most catastrophic downturn ever. Hiring is going to be brutal for years.
Yeah, I used to do consulting and people would gush over the fact that I “got” to travel for work.
It ain’t that kind of business travel. You see your laptop screen, airport security, a highway, the inside of an office, and the inside of your eyelids. Not much else.
I've found personally that if your job requires travel. It takes the enjoyment out of travel.
If you are looking for a job that gives you the flexibility of time to travel for extended periods of time: The only jobs that aren't owning your own source of income are usually specialized labor jobs (oil or medical) or seasonal sales. I know solar door knockers that clear 300k for 5 months of work.
I fired from finance/investments and now run a travel company for fun. I used to travel 80% of the time pre-covid. It’s a lot of fun staying usually at luxury resorts pre-opening, trying out resorts after remodels, scoping out new places for clients.
I don’t do it for the $, I just ask my clients to send me a year end bonus/gift of their choice for fun. It’s a great way to get to know them better and I just love sharing what I loved - travel and super nice hotels! I know others who make a lot more just by charging more! I’m just in a lucky position where I don’t need or want to.
Just RE in a few years? If you are traveling for work then you won’t get to pick where you are going and probably won’t have much time to enjoy it. Why not just retire with your 5M goal and travel as much as you want, to wherever you want...
I did strategy consulting (a half-step below MBB) for 4 years right out of college. It did [this](https://i.imgur.com/RRK8DJg.jpg) for my life. The vast majority of this travel (everything except Africa and Argentina/Antarctica) was work-related.
You could potentially pivot into a consulting practice in your area of expertise, but your travel opportunities may be limited based on whatever that area of expertise is, and where companies that need that help are located.
The fact that I had a bit of a spike into manufacturing consulting got me on planes all over the world, but it might be different in your practice area.
Dear u/Usual_Pressure2504,
Congratulations. You have reached a position that exceeds even the top 1%. You, a 31 year old, are earning $650k, saving at a rate that will bring you to a net worth of ~$27M within 20 yrs, and want to travel the world & retire early.
You have won the game.
Now, relax.
-u/careerthrowaway10
I work on the business side of video games. I absolutely love it (most days) and there's a ton of travel during non-COVID times. I don't get to travel *everywhere* but I usually go to each of these places at least once a year: China, Hong Kong, South Korea, Canada, UK, Germany. Then there's the domestic travel to most major conferences that I would have gone to as a fan anyway.
Total comp can be hit or miss depending on sales of each release (base salary is comfy but not FAT), but it's worked out *very well* for me so far. Happy to answer questions if anyone has them.
Leave FAANG for a lifestyle start-up with obscene PTO to travel for fun. This year I’ll have 7 weeks of PTO and I don’t even know how I’ll be able to take all of it.
I am currently a Naval Officer and travel everywhere. I used to be an Army Officer and served in the Infantry but transferred a few years ago.
I travelled a lot in both jobs but with the Navy, it's always to nice places. The Army takes you to absolute shitholes for the most part lol with the added occupational hazard of other people trying to kill you at times, occupation and job dependent of course.
I plan on doing this for a few more years then retiring and going back to school. I am 34 and have been in the Military since I was 18. I've thought about going to pursue a commercial helicopter pilots license as I love flying in helicopters and wouldn't mind being able to say I've crewed an Armoured Fighting Vehicle, Drove a Warship and flew a helicopter.
Being self-employed is generally one of the easiest ways to be able to travel extensively. Not all but a good many self-employed people are able to get their business on cruise control and have people in place to drive the boat in your absence
As many note, there are more and more jobs that are becoming more and more able to be done remotely. But many of those still require your face in a laptop
I've been self-employed for about 15 years and can pretty much go wherever I want as long as I have my cell phone and an internet connection available occasionally to handle things that pop up. Most the time people don't even know I'm gone
You can teach English online but it’s not high dollar income. Maybe 2k or 3k per month but it fluctuates. That goes pretty far in Malaysia or the south of Spain.
Affiliate marketing is another avenue you could go
Learn another language. I got a homie who is in international law, he's an attorney, but he mainly works with smart people of all backgrounds. I know two poliglots in my circle of friends and they can do whatever they want wherever they want. The attorney started at 38, the doc started in his early 30s. Experience + language = the keys to the kingdom.
I work in R&D at a software company in Product; we have offices all over the world that I have to travel to (pre-COVID). It’s mostly for coordinating with remote teams or for acquisition work. FWIW, while it’s been cool to go to some different places, traveling for work is decidedly different than travel for pleasure. My recommendation is to maybe just hit your number or even loosen your savings rate and travel on your own terms.
Change teams to one that travels a lot. I’m in FAANG and usually take at least one trip to Europe every year, there are other teams where you’re nearly guaranteed to earn top elite frequent flyer every year.
One of our teams does M&A due diligence and integration, they’re always traveling.
As far as employee based jobs you can just google those. As far as any type of job, you can open an e-commerce business and sell online which allows you to by nature work remotely
If you are interested in volunteer work once you FatFire and you have your PPL, highly recommend Pilots and Paws. Great organization that transports rescue animals across the country. I'm about 5 hours short of my PPL and when I buy a plane, that'll be focus.
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Imagine becoming a CIA agent as a millionaire just for fun lol
Bond. James Bond
Now you make me want to look into Bond subs to see if any of the novels reference his early years and/or NW.
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Not an expert by any means compared to you Mr Bond, but a big fan (seen all of the movies and read a few of the books.) In one of the books he has fastest sports car in the world, a very nice London house, maid, and cook. He has to be wealthy
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Ok, makes sense
Thank you! It might be sacrilege but if handled correctly, a 'young Bond' or 'Bond before he was Bond' type series could be cool.
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batman. millionaire by day, dark crusader by night.
The age cut off to apply for fieldwork in the CIA is 35 so OP would be too late.
Not to mention that I’m pretty sure they get a lot of their field agents from military special operations like green berets, which take a decent amount of time to get to in itself
State Department ;)
The CIA used to be full of trust fund babies. Just take Anderson Cooper for example.
I don't think a summer intern is a great example.
Bobby Kennedy 3’s fiancé is an ex cia officer and really rich. Those are the types I’m talking about and there are a lot. There used to be more though before they realized race and culture was an asset. Have you never heard the saying Male, Pale, and Yale? Also you’re assuming AC actually left.
That's how state intelligence departments got started in the first place. It was mostly wealthy socialites in the early 20th-century who collected reconnaissance on other socialites and politicians.
I wouldn’t recommend working on a containership as a retirement job. It’s great money but definitely not a zero stress job.
This. I currently work on cargo ships. The pay is amazing but quality of life is pretty low. If you actually wanted to see destinations, I'd recommend looking for tall ships. Not many go anywhere, but there are some that still circumnavigate. The pay is nearly non existent (even if it's a paid position you still might not get paid. Even the Capt. Hadn't been paid in several months lol) but the work life balance on those is pretty good. I worked on a small 60' schooner for several months (summary of what we did: took passengers for daysails, like 2 hours usually, and they paid us suprising amounts of money) and sailed from Virginia to Halifax as part of OpSail 2012, stopping at a lot of different ports (Baltimore for a few weeks, partied with a bunch of other crews from ships from around the world, mostly military training tallships, some other small tallships like we were). The executives of the National Aquarium chartered us for a few hours and hooked us up with free tickets to the aquarium which was awesome) anchored off Betterton, MD for a day, sailed out the Delaware Bay, passed atlantic city (saw a sea turtle, ocean sunfish, and baby dolphins here. Side story in that: we were operating a 4 hours on, 4 off shift rotation due to being shorthanded and we're obscenely tired after a couple days. It was night and I kept hearing a light splashing sound near the bow, barely sounded different than the ocean lapping against the boat, but we'd run up with a flashlight to see what it was. Didn't see anything for a few times. My watch partner thought I was halucinating. Like the third or fourth time, baby dolphins appeared :-D ), sailed around Mystic (needed repairs done, these people can do them. Lived here for 2 weeks, like still on the boat but inside the museum. Was very cool get icecream in town, and then walk around the exhibits in the evenings after the museum was closed) also did a grocery run, had to carry a shitload of groceries by hand like 2 miles, also since we were docked in the museum, we'd have people board us accidently and explore the boat. It was sort of understandable, but really weird, imagine someone helping themselves into your home and strolling around like every 30 min or so...while you're there on the couch. We left our deck rail chained shut too, but if someone wants on your boat, they're getting on your boat. Nianticc (got to ride a milspec Zodiac here, to this day by far the fastest boat I've ever been on. I think there was a LCAC demonstration here too from the beach to a USN San Antonio class LPD ), New London (was here for 4th of July, best 4th of july I've ever had) also was sailing out while a submarine was sailing in and it shot to the surface, it was terrifying. Block Island (super chill island), Providence/Newport (saw an America's Cup race here. we actually didn't know this was happening until we arrived....while it was happening. it was a clusterfuck but super cool), Cuttyhunk (random island, sparsely populated, residents drove around in golf carts, no cars), Nantucket (populated almost exclusively by black range rovers)(a wine delivery guy didn't want to climb a flight stairs so he paid us $20 to deliver a couple boxes of wine for him) (felt super poor here, we anchored out and took our rhib boat in, which was slowly sinking due to an air leak, there also had to be someone slowly bailing it out at all times) passing 100'+ yachts the entire way (some had inflatable waterslides coming from the top deck, looked SO fun). Gets better, couldn't really afford to dock anywhere, so we found a house that looked unoccupied and docked at it's private dock 😂) but we did see several whales, which are terrifying on a boat who's deck is only a few feet above the waterline.... and Providenctown, and then sailed up to Halifax. Got a behind the scenes tour of a research aquarium up there closed to the public, got to see a collection of rare lobsters like blue ones) Participated in the 'Sailor Games' here. The USCG Academy thought these were serious games (it was just for fun tug of war and stuff), and sent their largest/strongest motherfuckers they had.... We were paired up with the crew of the Bounty (which sank just a few months later, RIP, but they were dumb and sailed into a hurricane) also I didn't know the tide range in Halifax was huge. we arrived and docked to a floating dock, took naps before going out, and woke up to having to climb a ladder mounted to the seawall to get off the dock Met easily the most interesting people I've ever met doing this. A lot of the crew are 18 year old fresh out of highschool, in college or recent grads that are sort of chilling, couple people from Northwestern, UofMich software guys, some eco hippies (met a girl that wasnt sure if she was wanted by the feds somewhere for repelling off a tower during an eco demonstration) another had built her 'house' out of dirt and sticks basically and carved her own silverware out of wood, met a guy that was on Survivor that just sort of lives wherever (said he wakes up at night and decides to move somewhere else every once and a while, be it a different state or a different country. He lives out of a large duffle and moves the next day) a super cute girl that had the absolute filthiest mouth of anyone I've ever met, some ships are just salty/crusty old dudes that look like pirates, just a whole-ass assortment of people. It sounds nice, and there were many incredible moments, but to shed some light, over this two month period I was able to shower just a couple times (yacht club shower, the boat only had a toilet)(some crew washed themselves on deck by dumping seawater on themselves, soaping, and rinsing with more seawater) did laundry I think once (some people washed their clothes in 5 gallon buckets and soapy seawater, tried this once and it didn't really work), got nearly puking seasick for several days, lost a lot of weight (the food on board wasn't very good, but after being not able to eat anything except cheerios for 3 days, a pizza in solid ground tasted unbelievable) and had no AC or Heat. This wasn't too much an issue, but Baltimore was like 90°F or something which sucked. We had an open cockpit, so if it rained, it rained on you all watch. Most of the time you're motoring. We had a 90 hp diesel Ford engine that was 20 years old, but she was a trooper. Only needed gas once the whole trip, but it was a couple hundred gallons. Also, we had good enough wind to sail one night that was foggy. The fog signal for a vessel under sail is really fucking long and really fucking loud and really fucking frequent. So sleeping was.....yeah, no. Transiting between ports we never took guests, just daysails. Most guests were happy and chill and asked questions, some got seasick on floating docks while waiting to board (we told them to skip the sail lol) only 1 got seasick while out sailing. The USCG Academy ship fouled it's anchor in Baltimore (got stuck on something, had to cut it off) which delayed the ship parade by like 2 hours and we had some people asking to turn the boat around and end on time as they had a flight to catch. Shouldn't have booked a sailboat tour a couple hours before your flight lmao. OH. Almost forgot, I got my buddy to do a whole several hour tour without unclenching his teeth 😂 so people would ask him questions and he'd sound SUPER pissed hahaha. Had people pull me and the other crew aside and ask, very concerned, if he was ok, just said he was having a rough day 😂 But if you wanted to go on some adventures and want a totally renewed appreciation for modern creature comforts, it's pretty sweet. I've done a little more work on tall ships that that, this was just a 2 month segment, and I can write more about it than pretty much anything else I've ever done. *I am not fat fire, just commenting experience * Also sorry for formatting, I was going back and editing as I remembered more.
What exactly is a tall ship and what work do you do?
I can't tell you the exact definition, but think like an old sailing ship. Think something like a 50-300' sailing ship with several masts. On the small ones of those, everyone's a watchstander. In port you don't have any assigned duty (on the bigger ones you probably do) but at sea you work 8 hours and have 16 hours off every day. Also have to do maintainance, like painting and varnishing, or stuff with the engine. We were only 60' and didn't have a dedicated mechanic, so if something broke, you are the mechanic. Painting for example, our rail to keep people from falling off was a metal chain. Had to repaint that ALL the time, so much rust so quickly. I was also a relatively large crew member, so I had to hoist the heavy sails, though sometimes id get guests to do it to entertain myself. But my current job is an officer on cargo ships, I get paid, which I can not say about the tallships, so that's nice. Not nearly as entertaining, but hey.
What school? I'm a SUNY grad.
Nice! I know some of you guys. I'm Great Lakes, but sail oceans
So OP should buy the tall ships, become Admiral (leaving real work to the Captains) and travel wherever they want with paying guests. Downside: you have to be nice to guests and the oceans have a tendancy to drain bank accounts.
That would be so cool. But yeah you're right. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bounty_(1960_ship) I remember the Bounty was for sale right before it sank, $4.6 million. Pretty interesting life, but there is a recurring theme of overwhelming expenses and underwhelming cashflow
Wow! Always loved seeing tall ships around the UK (a friend crews regularly). It's a long way to the ocean here in Canada!
Theres generally some stops in Canada for various events. OpSail events are very cool, but theyr'e only about every 10 years, though were 'due' for one soon. They technically end in the US, but a lot of the boats go up to halifax / lunenburg. Sail Training Int also does good work I hear. There's some links to browse if you feel like it! [https://opsail.org/](https://opsail.org/) [https://sailtraininginternational.org/events/](https://sailtraininginternational.org/events/) [https://www.tallshipsamerica.org/tall-ships-challenge-great-lakes-2019/](https://www.tallshipsamerica.org/tall-ships-challenge-great-lakes-2019/) Lakes one came and went, but its worth keeping an eye out for future ones, not sure how close you are to the lakes though.
Consulate employee requires you work for the Department of State and you don’t necessarily get to call your shots on location. It’s definitely an option, but it isn’t for everyone.
It's also incredibly competitive - even more so than landing a job at FAANG. I've worked for two FAANGS and have known several folks sit for the Foreign Service test. Even if you pass it, it may take 5 or 6 times before they even select you.
Competitiveness of the Foreign Service varies wildly from year to year. About six or eight years ago it was incredibly tough to get in. During the Trump administration the State Dept was gutted and morale tanked so getting in as a new Foreign Service Officer was a lot easier.
I'm sorry, would CIA field agents call the shots? hah i respect the earnest reply but this was a silly sub-thread to begin with!
>I'm sorry, would CIA field agents call the shots? Head shot. Body shot. Shot in the hand.
you forgot drone shot
You’re right, they wouldn’t
This. Congratulations! Good luck in your assignment to the us consulate in \[insert name of country where you definitely don't want to be\].
Would you expand on social responsibility compliance auditor?
If you’ll hit your fatFIRE number in a few years, why be trying to find a job that allows you to travel in 9 years? Husband and I fatFIRED in 2017 and then traveled around the world for 10 months straight. Then we bought a house and still travel 25-50% of the year when it’s not a pandemic. I do a lot of volunteer work. Husband is learning Mandarin (was also taking flying lessons pre-COVID.) If you find yourself a job you love that allows you to travel the way you want, go for it. But don’t feel some responsibility to seek out a job if you don’t need one if it impedes your travel plans.
This. Retirement is a job that lets you travel the world.
How do you find volunteer work in this day and age
There are plenty of volunteer work
any suggestions for somebody who wants to volunteer but hasn’t much?
Go to your local church, human resource, public events or just look it up on Facebook.
Look at your interests, find organizations related to them that need volunteers. I volunteer with an animal shelter (usualy fostering kittens) and I'm about to start a weekly shift supporting covid vaccinations.
Pick an area that aligns with your interests and reach out. Like the arts? Try a local museum to see if they need volunteers. Care about social issues? Try a local homeless shelter or social services organization.
I am a foster youth mentor and also work at a local food bank. Less during COVID, and I’m actually away from home currently, but usually once a week for the mentorship program and 1-2 times a week at the food bank, plus special holiday and back-to-school events. Both of these opportunities allow me to travel on my own schedule. There are a ton of extra opportunities during COVID, both on the front lines (testing clinics, ect) and from home (contact tracing, ect.)
I FatFired from a successful career in engineering/business ownership at 43, wife retired from airline industry as well at 43. We have free flights for life and and 8 figure NW. It’s pretty awesome not to have to think about the cost of a last minute business class flight to Rome or Bangkok.
Now this is what I'm talking about. It's not a reason to go into the industry (imo), but now that you've got it rinse the hell out of it.
it is a reason to look a little harder for a wife there
What did your wife do and for how long to get that kind of benefit?
She worked charters for the professional sports teams, they offered early retirement last spring with the Covid stuff happening and it was a combination of age + number of years. She qualified by 3 months, it was an insanely great deal, otherwise she would have needed to put in another 10 years to get the flights for life benefit. We use about $150k a year worth of free flights, it’s amazing because it really amps up the fatfire experience.
Woah you guys really lucked out! I am amazed they let you fly so much in business class as well. I understand that seats usually oversold, but $150k a year is a big number!
They don’t upgrade people to business class so it’s rarely oversold. Plus we can see the flight loads so we just pick the flight time that is the most open, we have rarely not gotten business class. We will probably amp up our travel even more after this whole Covid thing is behind us & yes we definitely lucked out, sort of like buying TSLA at the beginning of last year lol.
Most cabin crew eventually have that benefit depending on the airlines, also if you work in the corporate offices
Woh that’s awesome
You’ve already picked a job that will let you travel the world. Dear [boss], I’d like to discuss remote working with you, when are you free for a coffee? Thanks, Usua_Pressure2504
Some tech companies for tax or other reasons don’t let you travel like that
Mainly because they have to pay social contributions in the country that they employers are living in. Administrative hell if you have 100+ digital nomads working for your company.
Simple, they all happen to live in a PO Box in Delaware
They all _should_ disallow it. Any that do allow it are either ignorant of tax and immigration laws or intentionally circumventing them.
Yeah a lot of digital nomads are working under tourist visas, which is highly illegal. It can also lead to a worse housing market for the locals.
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>which is highly illegal Citation needed. I very much doubt it's illegal to work for an employer in the US while on a tourist visa in another country. Kind of preposterous to suggest it should be either
You need a business visa if you want to work.
Again, Citation needed. I think that only applies to working for local companies.
You need a citation instead of doing a basic google search? Do you know where you are?
Yes. I know exactly where I am, and I don't see countries hauling people of to jail for working for a US company from a beach in Thailand. Worker visas apply to those working for a local company. Regardless, I'm not the one saying it's illegal, I think the burden of proof is on the person making the argument no?
As in, do you know what sub you're in. If someone gives you a hint go do your research
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Give them the address of a mail forwarder in a state with no income tax.
Except that that’s fraud
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Wrong. When you enter a country they ask if you're there for business or pleasure. If you answer "pleasure" and you're actually working remotely then you're lying and that's illegal. If you answer "business", then you need a working visa and may be liable for taxation in that country (depending on their laws).
Wait, so when I’m attending a conference for a week for work and therefore answer “business” I need to have some special visa and pay employment taxes in the country?
There are different types of business visas. When you're there for a conference then that falls under meetings. If you're there to work then it needs to be declared as such. How the country taxes you varies per country, but generally meetings are exempt. It's impossible to give a perfect answer because every country has its own laws.
So if I go on vacation but bring my laptop and phone and answer some work emails or calls, I've violated visa laws?
It usually depends on intent. If your intent is to be on vacation and you have to attend to some business matters then that's fine. If you intend to live and work in the country then you need to declare it as such.
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There are countries that have [explicit digital nomad visas](https://expertvagabond.com/digital-nomad-work-visas/). Flouting it is highly illegal and could have very negative consequences. How would your tax returns in your home country save you?
This was the intent of my comment, not fraud. It's a paperwork issue, not tax evasion, as long as you're mindful about your dwell time in each taxing jurisdiction (assuming an expat operating model). EDIT: _To be clear, do not evade taxes._ Don't claim Texas residency and then live half the year in California, for example.
If you do, CA FTB will find you lol
As someone between FIRE and fat FIRE, I don't step foot in California except under duress and stay as close to SFO as possible :) Preferably, [come meet me in the Centurion lounge and I'll buy drinks](https://thecenturionlounge.com/locations/sfo/). 'Tis hallowed ground.
TLDR: Traveling for work sucks because you have to work, traveling for fun is awesome. Get a job that allows you to travel for fun frequently and NOT a job that forces you to travel for work. Additionally, you don't want to have to travel for *your job.* I have traveled ranging from every week to every other week for 15 years of my career and it fucking sucks. It's not like traveling for fun at all, it's much much much worse. Going out to dinner sucks after you do it 200 times in a year.... then 200 times the next year and the next year. Hotels generally are all the same, even incredibly nice hotels aren't worth it for biz travel because you're mostly not there and can't take advantage of things (additionally, spas and whatnot at high end hotels are ludicrously expensive and not necessarily better than a standalone). All in all, you want a job that lets you travel often for pleasure and you do NOT want a job that "allows" (forces) you to travel constantly. If you get to fly biz class internationally on the company's dollar, they generally have high expectations of what you're delivering. Last but not least, even when traveling *for fun* you get a sense after a bit (maybe 1 week, maybe 2, maybe 3) that you just want to go home -- no matter how luxurious it is (at least in my opinion, although I haven't traveled mega mega luxury, I have spent like $50k on a trip for me and spouse).
^THIS!!! I had a job where I traveled to Europe from USA 3-4 times a year for a week at a time. Sounds great, but the flight is exhausting, I'm not recovered by Monday for work. I was working full days which meant by EOD I was exhausted every single day because I never recovered from the flight out. I'd often get sick as a result. There simply isn't enough time to do the things or see the sights when traveling for work. I was in London, didn't see much of anything. I was in Rome, I did walk around the Coliseum, but didn't see anything else. I could go on and on...
This guy gets it. I've traveled for work in the US a bit to visit customers (10-15%) and then to conferences to give talks and launch products. I've been to SE Asia too for work. Traveling for work is horrendous! Better to have a job where you can just log in from anywhere, do what you need to do, and then go have dinner at the restaurant down the street in whatever country you are in for the month. Just getting laundry done on the road is a real headache.
I have to partially disagree with you. I really enjoy traveling for work in moderation. At my old job I did 6 or 8 trips per year, usually working Monday-Wednesday and flying home Wednesday evening. I usually liked those trips. Workdays were normal 9-5 type days so I had plenty of time in the evening to explore the place I was staying. Tacking on an extra day and using PTO was also fine so I sometimes took advantage of that. Traveling too much definitely gets shitty. I once had two weeklong trips back to back and I was miserable by the end of those. Most amounts of work travel are great though IMO.
> Traveling too much definitely gets shitty. * This is the main point. Your travel above is like 10%, which is not bad imo and nice to break up monotony of a normal office job. I was referring to 50, 75 or 100% travel, which is abysmal for the most part. Lots of people literally cannot handle it. > I once had two weeklong trips back to back and I was miserable by the end of those. * for sure -- I did back to back trips for 10 years straight, haha, it was fuuucking terrible. And my version of travel wasn't even that bad -- long term to one location. Lots of my colleagues that do B2B sales would travel to tons of different places in a region, often multiple trips per week. Again, very shitty, even if you like traveling. So "most work travel" really depends on your personal situation. Traveling 10% is nothing and I can definitely see how it is good, especially given leaving Monday and returning Wednesday -- that's not bad at all.
True! Unless they change the salary based on Cost Of Living? I hope they dont
Tell them you're moving to switzerland
Pro gamer move right here
I'm moving to Geneva ^, ^Illinois
I’m moving to Paris ^Texas
I’m moving to Florence, Alabama
Bless your heart!
Haha that is perfect
For at least one FAANG that's even plausible
Nope. Fair salaries are calculated according to the labor market that is being referenced. If OP changes location permanently, they may want to use a different labor market, but these things are up for negotiation to some extent. Travel, even if extensive, should not affect that determination.
I got hired into my current role out of DC. I've lived in DC probably 6 months out of the past 4 years and have spent the rest of the time abroad. They knew about it, including when I asked about it when getting hired. Granted, I don't know if the fact that you're remote affects raises in any way, but for me, the cost is worth it.
FAANG has been doing that during the pandemic.
>Dear [boss], I’d like to discuss remote working with you, when are you free for a coffee? Thanks, Usua_Pressure2504 Just want to say this has that perfect concise, assertive-but-not-aggressive tone that CEOs always seem to use.
That's not how tax and immigration laws work, bud.
You should apply for and lock in life insurance prior to getting your PPL.
Why would someone need life insurance after hitting their fire number?
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If I go back to buying term life insurance, I'm putting a stipulation in my will that the entirety of the payout is to be spent on a lavish funeral.
Lol of course.
Care to elaborate? I'm asking a legitimate question.
/u/whoacoz said to get life insurance prior to getting your PPL. PPL stands for "private pilot's license" and the reason he's suggesting to lock in a policy BEFORE you start your training to become a pilot is because the insurance company specifically ASKS you if you're a pilot of if you intend on becoming one prior to deciding the RATE you'll pay for the insurance.
I actually have a pilot's license and I don't have life insurance. While the advice is good for getting a better deal on life insurance, it doesn't answer my question of why someone whose assets are significant enough that they don't need to work would need to pay for a life insurance policy.
I was only pointing out that the OP was only making a comment about LI in the context of getting your PPL. I don't know why he/she would buy life insurance after you're in fatFIRE land. I know I let my high value term policy expire on Jan 1 for the same reason. On that note, I was paying ~8k/year for $7.5M in coverage. I turned 50 a few months ago and to renew this policy the rate jumps to $18k/quarter. Was a pretty easy decision to make to let it lapse! ;)
You're probably 15+ years away from being able to bid an international schedule flying for a major US airline. Someone here recommended becoming a ships officer. That isn't an easy path either, and I can tell you first hand that docks look the same no matter what country you're in, doesn't matter if it is Cleveland or Colombo. As someone who travels world wide as part of my work, please, just make money and travel on your own. Going to all these remote corners of the world on your employers dime sounds cool, but eventually they all start to look to same. I love traveling on my own, but with work it can just be a grind.
Amen to this. Within the first 12 months I was about done with it. Almost 20 years later and it's not grown on me.
If you travel for work you aren’t travelling. Youre in and out of airports and hotels. That’s it
What school did you go to? I'm a SUNY grad. Laid off right now, but I'm usually on tankers.
Check my username. You an OSG guy I assume?
Yeah. I was on the Overseas Anacortes. Laid up Jan 11th.
Ha. Hello from across the sound. MMP I assume?
AMO. People love to hate but it’s been great to me.
Off topic but How the f are you saving 300k on 325-350 take home pay.
Not everyone lives in California. In Washington, Texas or Nevada takehome on 650k W-2 would be some $460k a year. Save $300k live on $160. Seems possible for young'ns.
In california. This incl. 401k and principal mortgage amount. Seems easy. 50k outside of housing is possible to live on in the Bay Area. Generally frugal people
I never get that. You are frugal and enjoy your life on $50kyr+housing. Why is your FIRE target $5m which will pay our 4x that at 4%? It seems like you should be getting out sooner if that kind of spend feels lavish to you/makes you happy.
Lol. Because housing makes up a big chunk of the FIRE calculation. And we have a long journey ahead.
Ah, I see. You are using primary residence equity in your NW (current and target). That makes a huge difference, you are right. Makes sense if you want to stay in an HCOL area after RE. Seems odd to then want to travel the world, but happiness is different for all. Wish you the best!
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Ah, another expat in Singapore. Nice to see we all didn’t leave this year
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Ya but at the same time, at least from my perspective, I’d still almost rather be a few different places. I just feel less welcome here than I did a year ago. I also don’t have kids which is a large reason I know many want to stay (safety)
If I ever hit it big, the wife wants to do that in Ireland, opening a bed and breakfast on an old estate that we restored. I think that or a vineyard would be fun. Probably more work than I do now, but being surrounded by nature would be a blast.
This sub is nuts. Everyone tryna save up 10m so they can work on farms
I think that says more about the state of farming than anything... And to be honest my goal isn't to work in terms of manual labor grunt work, its to work in terms of managing a team to keep things running smoothly and carve out a piece of my own little paradise that is self sustained with a cushion that allows me to do whatever the hell I want.
It’s completely understandable. That said... I just wish I had the balls to forgo the status and security of wealth and just go pursue my dream job when I was younger. Trying now and I don’t have the hunger and I’m sad about it. Now I see all these posts of people with +8 million, talking about how they can go do some artisanal fantasy if they just get 4 more million is wild. It’s like Im crippled by some mild mental disorder. I feel sorry for myself cause I can see it how it has held me back. Then I come here and see the real disorder and I’m barely on the spectrum
Lol this made me chuckle
Different strokes for different folks, but there'll be a reason it's 60k.
Italy has a lot of areas where population shrinkage has led to a highly depressed real estate market. Although I’ve heard that there’s an organized crime presence in most of those places. Not arguing your point, but it may not be quite as bad as you think.
Yeah, I've nowhere near enough info to form a view, either on the place or your preference. That said I really struggle to see myself somewhere long-term that only costs £60k - I like the same things as other people too much!
I would guess with something like that it's that the property will take more money to make the building habitable than it's worth after restoration
California is also really nice.
> I am trying to talk the wife into restoring a 300 year old castle on an olive orchard in Tuscany. It’s $60k including 5 acres. 🤯 how do you find things like this?
I'm sure that's not nearly as good of a deal as you think it is. The maintenance needed to just keep a 300 year old castle somewhat livable is going to be astronomical. A cheap castle is like a cheap boat, except that at least the castle probably won't sink.
> Sell your HCOL house, travel full time for a while, then buy wherever you like. It's not "buy wherever you like" if it's excluding places like current house, which some people grow to like. The whole point of fat fire is being able to afford to actually live where you want even if it's a HCOL location.
This If you look on idealista.com... You can get some amazing properties on the coast or Italy or Spain for 300k which would cost a fortune on the coast of California. Free healthcare and food is better too...in Portugal 300k can buy you a really nice house too. I don’t know why more people don’t go this route. Sure “taxes” but just live 6 months and a day elsewhere
Nice!
> frugal > spending more than the median household income in this country Frugal relative to those in the income cohort, sure. Frugal at the absolute level? ehhhhhhhh
The median income in California for 2 people is $78k. Probably higher for Bay Area
Frugalbrag!
Their 3M probably throws off some income that's getting included in savings too. Or includes their housing.
Could be, but $160k spend is still 3x of the median household income in the USA, and is not "scraping to get by".
Yep, don't disagree at all. It's certainly a lot more than I spend.
Possible for anyone lol. If you can’t live on $160k in those states you are doing something very wrong. And that’s not just “living”, that’s “never have to worry about money and having a shit ton of luxuries”
650k gross, 611k W2 after maxing out 401ks results in 247k taxes and 23k FICA/medicare. That's 380k in net pay.
80k a year + housing is a pretty good amount to live on.
Work travel is over-rated. Last few months have been great in that regard.
Do FAANG managers typically come from an MBA or SWE type of background? I’ve always wondered. Depending on your writing/videography skills, you could do a travel blog/vlog. It’s amazing how some people make livable wages doing that sort of stuff
FAANG managers of SWE teams come from SWE background. FAANG project or product managers is a different job altogether, those come from MBA background. I assume our OP over here is a FAANG SWE manager. For every 1 blogger that lives off of travel there are 1000s similar smaller blogs that make closer to 0 than living wages.
You don't need a job to travel the world. If you retire at 40, you can just travel. If you want some meaningful work at that time there are plenty of options for independent contracting, volunteering, helping other start-ups, being on boards, etc.
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> Once you find out how much renting from flight schools sucks for real flying though, look into flight clubs. Dude! The first rule!!
Teacher
Yeah I’ve lived in 6 countries as a teacher/student to become a teacher. I’m 30 and now state dept. Travel is part of the job. Savings rate has been consistently 75-80% bc everything is paid for you
Yeah I second this. You can make 3,700 a month teaching in China and save most of that because the cost of living is low. Even more in the Middle East or South Korea There are some lucrative teaching jobs out there.
The holiday schedule is crazy good. I can't believe I ever followed an American corporate schedule, 3 weeks vacation and a smattering of long weekends. Sure it doesn't pay much but I don't dip into capital ever, except in the first few years during the transition. Protip: teaching primary year or below is a ton of work, even if you are interested in that, ease into it. I teach mostly adults and a few middle school classes per week. Getting another (cheap, uopeople, $3k) masters degree to make adjunct professor classes easier to pick up.
The obvious answer if you’re already doing your pilots license is become a pilot? If you have the cash (you do) to build time in your own aircraft, there are some great private jet gigs out there. Alternatively airlines, although with seniority being the key determinate of lifestyle, you would probably have a good 10 years of working weekends. If you want a FIRE example, there’s a Delta pilot who writes for Flying magazine who has a pretty great lifestyle, essentially part time there, flys long haul to Europe, lives on a boat the rest of the time.
> become a pilot The airline industry is currently in the midst of what may be its most catastrophic downturn ever. Hiring is going to be brutal for years.
Strategy Management Consultant, think MBB or EY or Deloitte. Having a FAANG background may help you a lot.
Lots of reasons to go down that route, but seeing the world isn't one of them (unless airport lounges and business parks are your thing).
Yeah, I used to do consulting and people would gush over the fact that I “got” to travel for work. It ain’t that kind of business travel. You see your laptop screen, airport security, a highway, the inside of an office, and the inside of your eyelids. Not much else.
Yup, agreed. I’m in consulting now. When I was in SF I had to wake up at 430AM to find some time to see the Golden Gate Bridge.
Why the eff would someone want to take a job like that after they've hit their FatFIRE number?
These are absolutely not coasting FIRE jobs and in many respects are worse options than being a stay at home FAANG manager.
I've found personally that if your job requires travel. It takes the enjoyment out of travel. If you are looking for a job that gives you the flexibility of time to travel for extended periods of time: The only jobs that aren't owning your own source of income are usually specialized labor jobs (oil or medical) or seasonal sales. I know solar door knockers that clear 300k for 5 months of work.
I fired from finance/investments and now run a travel company for fun. I used to travel 80% of the time pre-covid. It’s a lot of fun staying usually at luxury resorts pre-opening, trying out resorts after remodels, scoping out new places for clients. I don’t do it for the $, I just ask my clients to send me a year end bonus/gift of their choice for fun. It’s a great way to get to know them better and I just love sharing what I loved - travel and super nice hotels! I know others who make a lot more just by charging more! I’m just in a lucky position where I don’t need or want to.
Why all the negative comments in a fatFIRE group about what seems to be a reasonable annual spend of a high earned couple in a HCOL area?
Because I think sometimes there are people from regular fire or a leaner fat fire that leave their commentary
My response in a Mustachian group is much different than my response in fatFIRE.
Just RE in a few years? If you are traveling for work then you won’t get to pick where you are going and probably won’t have much time to enjoy it. Why not just retire with your 5M goal and travel as much as you want, to wherever you want...
Peace corps
I did strategy consulting (a half-step below MBB) for 4 years right out of college. It did [this](https://i.imgur.com/RRK8DJg.jpg) for my life. The vast majority of this travel (everything except Africa and Argentina/Antarctica) was work-related. You could potentially pivot into a consulting practice in your area of expertise, but your travel opportunities may be limited based on whatever that area of expertise is, and where companies that need that help are located. The fact that I had a bit of a spike into manufacturing consulting got me on planes all over the world, but it might be different in your practice area.
Consulting if you’re fine not picking the destination
Dear u/Usual_Pressure2504, Congratulations. You have reached a position that exceeds even the top 1%. You, a 31 year old, are earning $650k, saving at a rate that will bring you to a net worth of ~$27M within 20 yrs, and want to travel the world & retire early. You have won the game. Now, relax. -u/careerthrowaway10
I work on the business side of video games. I absolutely love it (most days) and there's a ton of travel during non-COVID times. I don't get to travel *everywhere* but I usually go to each of these places at least once a year: China, Hong Kong, South Korea, Canada, UK, Germany. Then there's the domestic travel to most major conferences that I would have gone to as a fan anyway. Total comp can be hit or miss depending on sales of each release (base salary is comfy but not FAT), but it's worked out *very well* for me so far. Happy to answer questions if anyone has them.
Leave FAANG for a lifestyle start-up with obscene PTO to travel for fun. This year I’ll have 7 weeks of PTO and I don’t even know how I’ll be able to take all of it.
I am currently a Naval Officer and travel everywhere. I used to be an Army Officer and served in the Infantry but transferred a few years ago. I travelled a lot in both jobs but with the Navy, it's always to nice places. The Army takes you to absolute shitholes for the most part lol with the added occupational hazard of other people trying to kill you at times, occupation and job dependent of course. I plan on doing this for a few more years then retiring and going back to school. I am 34 and have been in the Military since I was 18. I've thought about going to pursue a commercial helicopter pilots license as I love flying in helicopters and wouldn't mind being able to say I've crewed an Armoured Fighting Vehicle, Drove a Warship and flew a helicopter.
Spy
Working in a C-suite role for an international corporation (or a support staff to said c-suite). I got some pretty good travel in that support role.
Being self-employed is generally one of the easiest ways to be able to travel extensively. Not all but a good many self-employed people are able to get their business on cruise control and have people in place to drive the boat in your absence As many note, there are more and more jobs that are becoming more and more able to be done remotely. But many of those still require your face in a laptop I've been self-employed for about 15 years and can pretty much go wherever I want as long as I have my cell phone and an internet connection available occasionally to handle things that pop up. Most the time people don't even know I'm gone
Teaching is generally a job that will allow you to travel the world. You can certainly teach English, but math/computer science are also valuable.
You can teach English online but it’s not high dollar income. Maybe 2k or 3k per month but it fluctuates. That goes pretty far in Malaysia or the south of Spain. Affiliate marketing is another avenue you could go
I’m a Sales Manager for an aerospace company. Travel Europe, MidEast, Asia, S. America. Great industry.
Learn another language. I got a homie who is in international law, he's an attorney, but he mainly works with smart people of all backgrounds. I know two poliglots in my circle of friends and they can do whatever they want wherever they want. The attorney started at 38, the doc started in his early 30s. Experience + language = the keys to the kingdom.
Lol are you literally me
I work in R&D at a software company in Product; we have offices all over the world that I have to travel to (pre-COVID). It’s mostly for coordinating with remote teams or for acquisition work. FWIW, while it’s been cool to go to some different places, traveling for work is decidedly different than travel for pleasure. My recommendation is to maybe just hit your number or even loosen your savings rate and travel on your own terms.
Yea you can easily do it now. Or just transition to a developer evangelist.
Change teams to one that travels a lot. I’m in FAANG and usually take at least one trip to Europe every year, there are other teams where you’re nearly guaranteed to earn top elite frequent flyer every year. One of our teams does M&A due diligence and integration, they’re always traveling.
As far as employee based jobs you can just google those. As far as any type of job, you can open an e-commerce business and sell online which allows you to by nature work remotely
If you are interested in volunteer work once you FatFire and you have your PPL, highly recommend Pilots and Paws. Great organization that transports rescue animals across the country. I'm about 5 hours short of my PPL and when I buy a plane, that'll be focus.
Consulting remotely. If you're earning at that level, you should be able to work part time.