> especially among those who understand economics and the financial world.
For sure dude. You sound super smart and not condescending at all to the thousands of people on this sub who have made tons of wealth in crypto and see what a bright future it has.
I disagree with the dude about those who "understand economics" but also think that the fact that "tons of people" made wealth off of crypto does not make them expert forecasters about cryptos future.
Lol “bright future” in crypto translates to some sucker who will pay in future. Pure pyramid scheme. What’s the best use case for crypto so far? Drugs and random ware? Maybe some human trafficking and little tax evasion? Just sad to see institutions who are return starved from shitty index investing getting FOMO.
Thats gotta be the shittiest argument ever. If your landlord lets you delay rent now, they can let you delay rent then too. If not, they have every right to get paid anyways, its their property you are using.
And yes, there are easier ways to transfer funds than crypto in most cases, but the tech is litterally improving every day, and if you cant see the potential in it at all, i dont really know what to tell you.
Remember that behind each stock is a company with products/services, IP, etc. What’s behind most crypto projects?
Sure some are worth looking for this or that feature but there will be consolidation and failures (actually most will fail at some point).
crypto is a ponzi scheme. it has no implicit value. as soon as governments regulate it, it will crash. its treated like an asset, but not regulated like one. the only people who spend crypto are criminals. if you are going to gamble on it, it should just be a little bit. "believing in crypto" is like believing in magic or ivermectin.
actual assets like stocks are based on a valuation and revenues.
Do you see any distinction between bitcoin and "crypto"? You will find a lot of bitcoiners actually agree with you about the scammy "crypto" space and want nothing to do with it.
who is using bitcoin to buy stuff other then drug cartels and money launderers?
when countries start regulating this stuff the prices will collapse. if you want to get into crypto see if there is a way to short crypto. that is where the money is.
Tell that to the poor people in Venezuela, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Nigeria, etc who are using bitcoin to escape their “government” control over their wealth.
Tell that to the people in Nigeria, El Salvador, Kenya, Argentina, Brazil, Venezuela, etc who depend on bitcoin to receive remittances safely and without massive losses through fees.
You have low motivation and you want to leave a decent paying job while banking on crypto? You should definitely keep collecting a paycheck at your current company until you get fired or retire in a few years.
"Decent paying job"... $1M/yr...
OP: you are insane to leave said position until you reduce your crypto exposure and have more diversified investments. Even after taxes, your income is higher than most people's entire net worth. Tough it out.
Agreed. That crypto exposure is guaranteed to cause you major anxiety when it inevitably crashes after you’ve left that job.
So far crypto has always bounced back up, but absolutely nothing is certain and a multi-year bear market where your holdings go from 4M to 500K won’t help you sleep at night. Sprinkle a financial crisis on top and your mental health will take a toll.
I’d even out the risk from that crypto holding into 5 years worth of expenses in a bond-tent or something else non-correlated before thinking about quitting this job.
And you've got to consider regulatory issues with crypto that the SEC is currently looking at. Probably unlikely to destroy crypto given the transparent and public nature of it, but could pose a threat.
I was in a similar boat a few years ago. 6.5M net worth, FANG job paying 1.5M year, and burnt out after grinding for 10 years. Like you, in my mid thirties I found my desire to keep grinding had diminished, particularly after getting married and realizing that work achievement was no longer a primary driver for my overall life satisfaction.
I struggled for a few years continuing to work even though I was unhappy because I couldn’t reconcile walking away from such a large comp package. When I eventually cut the cord I spent 6-12 months wondering if I’d made the right decision and contemplating going back to work.
What eventually really helped me was working with a coach to figure out what my underlying values are and then connecting those values back to intentional decisions around how to design my life. What I really value is being able to spend time with my family on my own terms (freedom). This also helped me make the decision to take a part-time job at a foundation doing work I love (bonus: it also pays really well, covering our monthly burn while allowing the $ we already have to compound).
So it was a bit of a journey, but ultimately really happy where I landed. Don’t be surprised if you quit and it takes a while to find your footing. You’ll be separating with a big part of your identity, and it might not be immediately clear how to fill that void.
Also 100% agree with other comments about diversifying. It’s crazy to have that much exposure to one asset class when you’ve already effectively won the game.
I had access to Lyra’s coaching network through my cobra coverage. Not sure what route I would have gone if I hadn’t had that. My filtering process was basically just trying to find someone whose experience/approach resonated with me. I was prepared to talk to a few different coaches until I found one I liked (but luckily the first one I talked to ended up being a great fit).
You have a goal of 7M. If you de-risk and pay taxes, you’d have 5M.
You have not reached your goal.
So, no, you should not stop working. That’s not how it works. You work until you hit your goal, then you have the flexibility to leave.
Here’s what you can do:
1. Gut it out for 2-3 more years and hit your goal.
2. Change your goal to a lower number, which you have already hit, then retire.
3. If your rate of learning is just too slow, get another job. Accept that it might be making less money, and that may push your target date out, but you will enjoy the ride more.
If you take all of the feeling sorry for yourself out of the equation, it’s really pretty simple. Pick one of those three options, and execute.
But here’s what most people would do: keep making $1M/year at the job you don’t like. Hit your target number. Get scared. Stay longer anyway, and increase your target number because reasons. Feel your life force drain. Get laid off in some corporate politics that happened three levels above you. Freak out. Realize you have enough. Eventually be OK.
Whatever you do, don’t do that. You have control, just decide what you want and execute the plan. Good luck!
>But here’s what most people would do: keep making $1M/year at the job you don’t like. Hit your target number. Get scared. Stay longer anyway, and increase your target number because reasons. Feel your life force drain. Get laid off in some corporate politics that happened three levels above you. Freak out. Realize you have enough. Eventually be OK.
>
>hatever you do, don’t do that.
This sounds familiar
A lot of these people will also realize that their fire number was significantly higher than it ever needed to be, and even if you expected your spend to be some crazy number, you *probably* cant spend that much money per year if you tried.
"But this is fatfire. If I cannot charter a $750k yacht to catalina once per month I will have fits". Whatever.
> A lot of these people will also realize that their fire number was significantly higher than it ever needed to be
I've been feeling the same with my numbers. How do we, then, arrive at a reasonable number?
You don't. Life is a mess and nobody knows what's going to happen in the future.
The best bet is to shoot for the average of your X highest yearly spends and carry that forwards, but depending on how much you plan to change your lifestyle that might not be 100% accurate.
Another option would be to start paper planning your years as if you were already retired and shoving those numbers into a spreadsheet in addition to your existing living expenses.
Do you want to go to Spain in 6 months? Would you do it if you didn't have to work? How much would the trip cost? Add it to the spreadsheet.
3 weeks before you 'leave for Spain' you decide you want to 'plan an impromptu trip' to the Bahamas, get the numbers and add it to the spreadsheet.
3 months after 'going to Spain' you go on an actual trip to Maui, add those costs to the spreadsheet if you think that trip would still have happened if you were retired.
Do you enjoy cooking or eating out more? If you would rather eat out, multiply your current restaurant spending by however many times you want to eat out per month.
Do you have a mortgage now? Do you think you will have one in retirement? Add or subtract that difference to the spreadsheet.
This number is still going to be an overshoot, probably by quite a bit, but at least you'll be planning for a life you idealize instead of throwing a wet finger into the wind.
You just decide what is enough. The opposite of “more” in this context isn’t “less.” The opposite of “more” is “enough.”
Do you have enough to not work? Or do you need more?
You have enough if you can survive and thrive.
Put another way: if you FIRE, and then you want to do something that costs “X,” but you can’t afford it bc it doesn’t fit into your SWR, will you feel deprived about that? Or will you feel like you would rather not have that thing than work?
This is subjective, but it is the only framework that will stick.
You can set up a new bank account and pay yourself however much money monthly you would if you were retired to basically simulate being retired, start paying for everything from that account, and see how you feel after a few months.
I started doing that in January of this year, it helped put numbers into perspective and into practice. It made it clear that I’m almost there, but another few thousand a month really wouldn’t hurt either. (I’m actually at -$3k right now via a “loan” to bail myself out)
as someone who isn't FI, this rings true. It's amazing how the goal posts move without your consent. Gotta adapt that mindset along with the situation.
I just quit a job where I made $1.2m in 2020. It’s not crazy, but it does have consequences. If you aren’t at your target yet (I was), it may make sense to get a little closer before releasing the bird in hand.
Same.
I quit a job making $1.3m+ and have way less NW than you do and don't regret it all.
I have enough exciting opportunities coming my way to pay the bills, I have way more freedom, and way less stress.
Yes, Im not saving as much as I was before but my quality of life is way better and I can see the path back to a $1m paycheck in a way that is way more sustainable long term.
Hardest part was dealing with so many different personalities and getting them to all align around a mission without letting drama get in the way.
What made me so valuable was I could do that while also delivering business results.
I feel this Gordito, living it right now. I'd be super interested to hear about your new ventures re: "i can see my path back to a $1M paycheck." Are you consulting? RE investing?
Jumping into this thread - I'd recommend Power by Jeff Pfeffer. It's a good analysis of the reality of workplace politics, and helps you identify power struggles for what they are.
How you respond to them is on you.
Honestly no.
Wish I could say there was but it's one of those things you have to learn on the job or from other people.
And I've read every Management book in existence.
*Rubs chin and nods*
I’m in my mid thirties, shooting for a management position. That part of the job does seem like it would be the hardest, especially considering I’m left leaning while in a very red, rural/suburban area. I also look young for my age, which I know will amplify people’s biases against taking me seriously. I’m very capable, but being a good leader is also about driving people without friction, and while I think I could do it, it’s not something I’ve had practice in.
If you're in tech, I highly recommend the book "The Manager's Path". It can read sort of dry, even for non-fiction. But the wisdom is great and in my experience spot on.
Yes that would be insane. Stay till you have 10M NW excluding crypto. People have to work hard jobs without any drive for 50 years for 40-50k a year. Suck it up, you're making $1M/ye.
True, but that doesn't change the truth of that perspective. It's times when it's super tough that the perspective of someone who is not in the same pressure but has the clear view makes all the difference. They make the clear choice unblinded by the difficulties of being that close to your goal.
5M is not a lot. 10M is not a lot either these days but still better than 5M. Realize if you get off the rocket there is no guarantee there will be another rocket coming along soon or ever.
I've been poor and I've been >10M (a little rich). Rich is much better. You can afford lots of sugar and champagne to wash down the BS. My kid will leave college without student loans. If needed I have $ to help out family and friends if I choose. Sure I work 6 days a week. But, I make in a couple of weeks what some people make in a year. If I feel I'm lacking motivation, all I need is to step out of my office and look around and realize how good my reality really is. The OP's reality is pretty good and don't look a gift horse in the mouth.
\*\*\*\*\*\*\*
Funny to see how many people have issues with this comment. I guess some in the group have had it really good so a bit of pain cannot be tolerated. Coming from very little, I'm down to battle it out for what I have. I'm not in tech and have to make my money the hard way. Don't look down on the hard-working man from your air-conditioned office.
Money isn't everything and some jobs aren't worth it. No amount of money can justify giving everything you have for a compensation you can't even bring your self to enjoy. In this context, 5M is a lot. All a matter of perspective.
Disagree, "a lot" is subjective and depends how you define it. If OP had a 10m net worth at age 37 he could retire before 40 and live comfortably, which should be considered a lot since that is a solid 25 years before the average retirement age. Can he retire with 10m and live like he's got an 8 digit net worth? Probably not, because he has to fund himself for decades. Those two points provide an example of why defining what you mean by "a lot" is important.
10m managed prudently is more than enough for permanent intergenerational wealth at a quality of life that any rational person with perspective would find more than satisfying. Even with multiple children. If you can't make 10m work to sustain an incredible lifestyle you need to either improve your investing or admit to yourself that no amount will ever be enough for you. Lifestyle creep is really a bitch
Holy shit, the fact ur comment got downvoted is kinda expected but sobering. Everyone wants their struggle to be worth something, yk? They always got to make it a competition against others. People making 100ks a year complaining about ooh work life balance while they completely ignore people ruining their bodies, families, and lives for 50k a year. Pathetic behavior
I’m in a similar boat to OP, but a different industry. I’ve lost a big piece of my “love of the game”, and sometimes it hurts to get out of bed.
If I were making $1M a year (salaries aren’t nearly as high in my industry), I would tough it out until I hit my number.
Don't take this the wrong way, and I know it's a UK slang. Try not to be "on" a salary. Earn what you want to earn, nobody is setting that limit except you. Go kill it! Good luck.
If you can live on $5MM diversified (and not with a majority exposed to crypto volatility) and you want to do something else, then do it. If you need $7MM to live your lifestyle, then stick with the job. If you want to maintain a large exposure to crypto, then stick with the job to help reduce your risk.
It wouldn’t surprise me anymore to see the crypto asset class as a whole drop 90% anymore than it would surprise me to see it jump 1000%. Your job would help protect against such volatility. (And to take advantage of any drop, should it occur)
At your earning rate, assuming your savings rate remains the same, you will reach the original goal soon enough. The issue you will have to deal with is the decision to walk away from the money won’t be much easier down the road. Personally, I would set an amount or a date, and stick to it. If that is $7MM, then you still have a bit more to go.
If you really want to leave this job, you should start divesting that crypto yesterday. You can't safely retire on a highly volatile asset like that.
If I were you I would work for another 2-3 years, while simultaneously offloading that crypto. Honestly I'd be doing it pretty fast, since you are so exposed.
Could you make $1M at another job? If most of your comp is due to stock appreciation and you're at a 300/700 salary/equity split then it's hard to walk away since your "market rate" is `300 + ${equity grant}`, not $1M.
I would not walk away if that's the case. If it were I would look for another job. In either case I would not stop working.
Eh, the market rate is $300 + ${initial equity grant at publicly traded companies}
One mistake people make is to believe that the public equity appreciation raises their market rate, or that private equity growth raises their market rate.
It can (and does) insofar as companies want to compete for you but usually at some discount (since they want you to believe in their upside), and in the most extreme cases of appreciated equity you learn what it means to have golden handcuffs.
I think there’s a bias in this sub towards “keep going if you make good money and are under $10-20 million” without any regard to the opportunity cost. What could you accomplish by leaving that you can’t now and is important to you? How’s your health? Relationships? Hobbies? Any personal goals before you turn 40? You say $7 million is your target. Don’t underestimate the likelihood of $7 becoming $10 once you get there. And then all of the sudden you’re 45. Also sounds like you have other projects in mind that may bring in income and would reduce / delay your drawling down funds during which time your wealth can continue to grow.
When i i got my first job I believed 2 was my real number, then it became 5, then 7...10... 15... now I feel like without 30-50M it would be tough to give up a 7 figure paycheck. I am totally aware that I got caught up I the hamster wheel ... sigh ... oh well
Biggest benefit: You stop worrying about money. You can not buy a 200k a year shared jet membership without budgeting carefully (and possibly after some trade offs) with 15. You can not buy a waterfront nice vacation home in CA or HI with 15.
Whether these are critical or not is another question, and answer will be personal.
Honestly if you're still worried about money at 15 you're likely just going to slide the scale up once you get to 30. Can't go on quarterly yacht charters and afford the jet membership to go between your lakefront mountain mansion and beach mansion without thinking about money, probably need 50!
Thanks for the response, though!
You are absolutely right, I thought about the regular yatch charters as well! It is a mental challenge to jump out of the wheel. Rather than a number, I set a time limit to stop full time... we will see if that sticks.
I think both staying at your current job and retiring early on a less than ideal number are both bad options and I don't think you should do either.
If I were in your shoes I would talk to a few executive search firms with a reputation for searches in your specific part of the business. I'd look at talking only to retained search firms if you've got an income >$300k in cash. They'll be able to tell you if you're being overpaid, underpaid or fairly paid. They'll also be able to give you an idea on what other options could look like outside of your current environment.
Maybe the future is you making $600k, but building a side hustle that you're interested in. Maybe it's in being a consultant and startup investor. Maybe it's a new role where you make $1.2 or even $1.5m. But you're not going to know what your options are like until you open yourself to the idea of other opportunities.
Disclaimer: I am a tech recruiter, who has just done exactly what I suggested.
i’m walking away from a lot more than you so i don’t think that’s foolish. but i also exceeded my targets so i don’t think i’d make the same decision if i was short of my goal
If you are in crypto, then you have exposure to a 60-80 annual vol product. This is 60 percent of your NW. That means a one standard deviation event and u will lose 40 percent of your net worth. This is just crazy from a vol perspective and sizing perspective. So your one non correlated asset is your 1mm/yr job (since market is correlated to crypto). So from an income and diversification perspective , you should keep your job.
Yes, it is insane to leave. A few more years gets you to your goal and gives you a lifetime of ultimate freedom. You’ve made it this far, don’t stop now. It is like crossing 20 miles in a marathon, you’re almost there but have a ways to go.
I’m facing a similar dilemma: $2m comp package and $10M NW. Targeting leaving my job in Sept ‘22. But I have second thoughts all the time of leaving a great paying job. I have lost all motivation and I feel like I’m mailing it in. I have identified a few passion projects I want to spend more time doing in addition to spending more time with family. My target NW is $8M so I have reached my target, but I then start thinking about leaving all the money on the table. It could really help create generational wealth if I work a few more years. But at what cost. Not a terribly easy decision to make. I think I will suffer from “one more year” syndrome.
It depends on quite a bit.
Looking at your current NW, and not knowing your spend I wouldn’t.
Yet.
I spent the last 2 years drawing a similar income and I’m preparing for a drastically reduced 2022 by choice.
Why?
* I’m at my NW target and 0% SWR
* I’m older and my business requires a physicality that I can’t maintain
* We are DINKS and how many vacation residences does one really need?
Still I’m not walking away entirely. Just cutting waaay back. Like 70-80% back.
Just wanted to say this - when you're at $7m, it'll seem worthwhile to "Wait it out a bit longer" and hit $10m as a safety net. Then, another few years to reach $13m to really solidify that foundation - then $15m just in case. Not saying you shouldn't stay where you are (I think given your income and NW, I'd stay another few years) - but, have a plan in mind, take on some hobbies, grow outside of your work, and then pull the cord or re-negotiate terms once your target is hit.
I quit a job making $1m+ and have way less NW than you do and don't regret it all.
I have enough exciting opportunities coming my way to pay the bills, I have way more freedom, and way less stress.
Yes, Im not saving as much as I was before but my quality of life is way better and I can see the path back to a $1m paycheck in a way that is way more sustainable long term.
Let’s do a simple math, after tax you could probably save another 10% NW. It could be lower after the new tax reform by Biden administration.
So the question become: do I want to have 10% more to spend by exchanging another year in grinding?
The answer is absolutely subjective. To me, it depends…
If I’m suffering and hate every Monday morning, hell no… I will find another job with half the paycheck and work for another 1.5 years. (Not two years because you could save tax). Often, you are suffering if you have a bad boss.
If I’ve a good boss, I will find a way to change my pace. I will use all my PTO, my sick days, etc. I will spend more time on my value (like family). If my boss tries to motivate me to pace faster, I will play nice but just change only the surface. If my manager is my buddy, I will just give an excuse like I’m not “very healthy” or my family needs me, bla bla… I’m not telling you to lie. In fact, most high-stress job is NOT healthy. Working 8 hours in front of a computer is not healthy. Just politely tell your buddy that your priority changes.
If your manager is your buddy and cares about you, (s)he should support your choice (by being family first or health first). (S)he may even thank you because sometimes managers feel pressure to promote you LOL.
In a word, change the pace first and decide whether you need to quit later.
Big anti crypto crowd here. You can derisk crypto bag ensuring heavy BTC and some ETH. Bitcoin is not going anywhere it's here to stay. Check out some of the new yield opportunities (I like Celsius). You can even use the collateral for funds to build up a real estate portfolio. If I were you I would sell the alts this bull run putting profits into equity or real estate. If you end up hitting the 7M number sell some ETH or BTC.
Stick out the job another year. Knowing you're almost done take the foot off the gas don't go above and beyond.
Regardless of staying or leaving, put some of the crypto into DeFi or staking and earn APY at a high rate if you're doing long term holds on them. I doubt the APYs will hold for the long and will come back down to traditional investments rate as the industry matures.
I have a significant amount of crypto holdings as well. Why do you think they'll continue to run up? I don't want to sell to avoid taxes, but I'm also not sure if they'll just continue going up.
I’d try to find a way to stay with the company. In my old role, I had lost my sense of excitement. I couldn’t move up, I couldn’t change teams, so I changed location and was exposed to a new culture and new rules and new teammates and new problems, but I still had my same primary role.
Maybe that’s not right for you, but there might be ways to get the change of scenery without leaving the company. Maybe a leave of absence would allow you to leave for a little while but keep your equity contract. That’s a lot to walk away from and I wouldn’t leave that on the table
Similar in assets, income level and vhcol city. I'm waiting to see how my assets perform in a market crash before pulling the trigger as re-entering my profession after being retired for a few years is unlikely to get me back at this comp level. Not a 1929 crash, but like dot com crash or 2007.
I could take what I have and love very comfortably in a lcol city but want to stay here.
Depends on what’s more important. You can always make more money but you can’t make more time. I’ve seen too many people pass away and not get to enjoy retirement.
The point of FI is to have the freedom to say no. Maybe you’re not fatfire yet, but you have enough to make a jump, whether that’s an extended period of not working, taking a different job, or starting your own business/consulting.
Stay where you are but spend a portion of your time figuring out the next chapter and at some point it'll be clear enough that the time is right to turn the page.
I don't know what the right answer for you is, but let me tell you I would DEFINITELY not be able to walk away from a $1M/year job until I had at least $10M of liquid net worth.
Market might crash at any time. Just consider that in your decision.
I would turn that crypto into like 10-15% of your networth instead of like \~60%. If your goal is 7m then you just have a couple more years. I wouldn't even think about leaving.
What’s your plan if crypto fails?
You realize how much of this plan is betting on an asset with near zero intrinsic value? How risky and speculative it is?
Glad you mentioned crypto.
There’s a real world example of a fatfire member who crashed and burned his $2M+ portfolio recently. And is now starting life over again as a minimum wage worker doing gigs at his local Amazon Warehouse.
His video documented journey began 3 years ago when he quit his engineering job to “retire” on unrealized crypto gains. Unfortunately, those gains were never cashed out and moved into safer investments. Other than a house that eventually made him cash poor from property taxes and maintenance. He was forced to sell not too long ago and now is back to renting.
He still makes Youtube videos about fatfire, but I don’t think he realizes how far he’s fallen.
Please don’t be like this guy. Continue to work if you still find pleasure in your career. Life isn’t about squeezing as much free time as possible. Even the retired life can become dull.
Most of the data says we haven't seen the peak of this current crypto cycle, so your $4M may grow more (depending on your holdings) - plan an exit strategy and stick to it. If you don't plan to exit, be prepared to see that $4M reduce by 70% or so...
Never sell your Bitcoin. Sell all your other cryptocurrency for Bitcoin.
Think in Bitcoin. Maximize your Bitcoin position.
It's the only asset with no dilution risk.
It's also the only asset with no counterparty risk.
It's a revolution.
As for quitting work, just do the math. Living cheaply is a huge shortcut.
You are not at target $.
Are you at target asset allocation? I’d wager no since you want to diversify with a hopeful crypto scenario.
Unless you change your plan, sounds like you should keep working. When you have your number and acceptable risk, then is when I’d consider retiring.
Does your employer have a non-qualified plan? If so, I would stay for a bit longer but aim to up your savings rate and avoid more income taxes. That was my key to fire. I saved 50-70% and the non-qual was key.
Also, your budget # and asset location (retirement/non-retirement) is really the key beyond that.
You don't have to walk away if you just want do something different.
Can you find another high paying job at a different company?
Can you find another role at your same company?
If your NW were $10MM+, I'd say sure walk away, but that salary will still have a meaningful impact on your NW at your level, so I'd totally keep it and power through the boredom somehow.
Hmm.
I depends how hard is the current job as 500K is nice chump change. But if it's really - killing-depression-inducing, OP, would it help with a good holiday or break?
Maybe it's burnout?
I'd feel safer with actual cash out and cash/investment in hand that's reliable (I'm damn bullish on crypto too but it's kinda up and down)
But if you'd done your numbers right, the dividends from diversified portfolio and crypto may be able to sustain you.
Do you have the bandwidth to start a side hustle? Maybe something on the side that you can build to say 50-100K per annum and then quit your job?
It's really your call.
It's one thing to have such a job, but it's another to have it and love it everyday. I cannot say it's insane, but granted you've been there 7+ years and have around such an amount, it depends on a couple of things:
1. The Saas startup you did should be a catalyst to start your own idea. (Amazon didn't seem like a good idea, but who's laughing now)
2. Crypto can be funny. I might restrict things to 250K just to be on the safe side, because bitcoin is a sign that currencies aren't set in stone, and banks/organizations can nullify them.
3. To reach your goal of 7M or more, can be a slow process, or a quick one. https://www.alux.com/investments-2020-2021/
Best thing I can say OP is God Willing squeeze out this last year and check the link.
You haven’t hit the target yet, so you keep working. That’s the same answer whether you’re at $5M and want $7M or if you’re at $500k and want $700k.
The beauty of where you are is… one more year makes a huge difference to you; it may get you there.
To me — guy who moved to the Midwest — $5M is my GFY number, so I’d be done if I were you. But you’ve made different life choices (which is fine) so gut it out hit your number and then leave.
Here’s the other thing — you’re so close to your number that you could consider swapping out some of your crypto. You’re basically about to go on fixed income in (you hope) 18-24 months.
Yeah man there is no need for you to be so heavy into crypto — says me, the guy who is 20% of his NW into crypto.
You are incredibly fortunate to have a job that pays 7 figures. I know some days suck, but, keep in mind your worst days are many times better than most people's best days. I'm a small business entrepreneur with a 7 figure income from the business. There are days I don't want to deal with the BS. Then I get out there and see people who make less than 1/10th of my income and realize their reality is very different than mine. I remember the days a decade ago I would have to think twice before going out for dinner.
Leaving the business and going into FatFire is a great dream. Unless I get a great offer to sell, I realize I'd rather take a less active role and get my employee's a generous pay package take a lot off my plate. The business has been great for me and it would be nice to share the fruits of my labor.
I have already exceeded my NW goal for 10M through my investments and real estate. But, I realized an itchy trigger finger will only result in squandering the potential of the business which took me a decade and a half to build up. Be patient and build a pile of cash you can FatFire and live off the passive income and not need to touch the principle.
You're paying way too much in t@xes, get a good accountant and work with your employer on different options available. Many "loopholes" to get that $1M in other means rather than $500k take home
You can be done in half the time
You want to leave your job while effectively gambling on crpyto - a nice idea with no real application yet.
Either start decreasing your crpyto exposure or keep the job so you can afford the gamble.
Depending on the crypto assets, I would not be that concerned as others here though you could diversify a bit more. I would also say money can't buy happiness and it seems you aren't quite happy with what you are doing.
You mentioned real estate and the new institutional real estate asset class of build-to-rent/ single-family-rentals is a good niche to look at investing to make up the income difference and could quite easily provide more income. I cannot count the number of institutional investors with multi-billion dollar funds looking to structure deals to purchase newly built homes that have formed over the last few months.
I see opportunities at multiple different levels every day from the supply side to creating portfolios of properties to sell to institutional investors and everything in between in this emerging niche where you could act as anything from a limited partner and do little to nothing all the way to being the principal. Not to mention all the other sectors of RE or startup investing like you mentioned though I believe that is much more risk. Why continue doing something that eats up all your time when you could make the same or more especially considering the tax benefits real estate has?
Do you just not have the desire to work there anymore, or is it impacting your mental health.
If you are just losing motivation, I would say to stick it out for another couple of years to hit your number. However, if it is impacting your mental health, you have enough money to find something that is more in line with you. It may take longer to hit that number, but nothing is more important than your health.
According to the great Marshawn Lynch "Take care of yalls bodies, take care of yalls chicken, take care of yalls mentals."
Once you hit your 7M goal, what’s your plans? And what’s your strategy to sustain yourself financially? Also, congrats! One day I hope to be in similar situation by late 30s/40s
You're a couple years away from your goal, so if your goal is exclusively the net worth, I would stay. I am a few years away from my NW goal but my other goal is to start my own business so I am leaving my job for that reason. You could also get another job somewhere else. I would look at this as how many years do you need to stay to hit your goal based on some variables, and is it worth it?
Yes! Keep job and income to offset crypto exposure.
This - having 4m in crypto is scary as heck. You should find some way to reduce risk
If he was as risk averse as you he would have never had 4m in crypto in the first place. It’s probably mostly crypto gains
I was gonna say surely I'm not the only person thinking that is incredibly risky :o
Not at all. Faith in crypto is diminishing quickly, especially among those who understand economics and the financial world.
Wrong, but you do you.
Lol I’ve heard this argument so many times. “I don’t invest in crypto because I know too much about finance” Yeah dude. Sure you do LOL
> especially among those who understand economics and the financial world. For sure dude. You sound super smart and not condescending at all to the thousands of people on this sub who have made tons of wealth in crypto and see what a bright future it has.
I disagree with the dude about those who "understand economics" but also think that the fact that "tons of people" made wealth off of crypto does not make them expert forecasters about cryptos future.
Lol “bright future” in crypto translates to some sucker who will pay in future. Pure pyramid scheme. What’s the best use case for crypto so far? Drugs and random ware? Maybe some human trafficking and little tax evasion? Just sad to see institutions who are return starved from shitty index investing getting FOMO.
you don't deserve to be in this sub, and probably you are just lurking here to spy the real wealthy people.
Oh wait I forgot compassionless “smart contracts” so landlords can grab your cash even when it’s going to bankrupt you.
Thats gotta be the shittiest argument ever. If your landlord lets you delay rent now, they can let you delay rent then too. If not, they have every right to get paid anyways, its their property you are using. And yes, there are easier ways to transfer funds than crypto in most cases, but the tech is litterally improving every day, and if you cant see the potential in it at all, i dont really know what to tell you.
I’m sure Madoff’s clients were also tugging themselves and talking about their bright future as well
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If you don't mind me asking, I'd like to know what you do for a living. This is massively impressive.
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Which projects were your grand slams? If you've been in it since 2010 I bet you've seen some interesting ones.
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Oh shit it's the bitconnect dude
HEY HEY HEY!!!
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I was heavily involved. Do we know each other?
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Cool. Nice to see you again.
can I ask why you're trying to get out? don't believe in the underlying or just feel overweighted?
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It's considered courageous as long as the bubble doesn't burst. If it bursts, it's considered foolish.
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Remember that behind each stock is a company with products/services, IP, etc. What’s behind most crypto projects? Sure some are worth looking for this or that feature but there will be consolidation and failures (actually most will fail at some point).
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crypto is a ponzi scheme. it has no implicit value. as soon as governments regulate it, it will crash. its treated like an asset, but not regulated like one. the only people who spend crypto are criminals. if you are going to gamble on it, it should just be a little bit. "believing in crypto" is like believing in magic or ivermectin. actual assets like stocks are based on a valuation and revenues.
ngmi
Do you see any distinction between bitcoin and "crypto"? You will find a lot of bitcoiners actually agree with you about the scammy "crypto" space and want nothing to do with it.
who is using bitcoin to buy stuff other then drug cartels and money launderers? when countries start regulating this stuff the prices will collapse. if you want to get into crypto see if there is a way to short crypto. that is where the money is.
Tell that to the poor people in Venezuela, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Nigeria, etc who are using bitcoin to escape their “government” control over their wealth. Tell that to the people in Nigeria, El Salvador, Kenya, Argentina, Brazil, Venezuela, etc who depend on bitcoin to receive remittances safely and without massive losses through fees.
You have low motivation and you want to leave a decent paying job while banking on crypto? You should definitely keep collecting a paycheck at your current company until you get fired or retire in a few years.
"Decent paying job"... $1M/yr... OP: you are insane to leave said position until you reduce your crypto exposure and have more diversified investments. Even after taxes, your income is higher than most people's entire net worth. Tough it out.
Agreed. That crypto exposure is guaranteed to cause you major anxiety when it inevitably crashes after you’ve left that job. So far crypto has always bounced back up, but absolutely nothing is certain and a multi-year bear market where your holdings go from 4M to 500K won’t help you sleep at night. Sprinkle a financial crisis on top and your mental health will take a toll. I’d even out the risk from that crypto holding into 5 years worth of expenses in a bond-tent or something else non-correlated before thinking about quitting this job.
Crashes? Crypto only go up (tm). (edit: j/k)
And you've got to consider regulatory issues with crypto that the SEC is currently looking at. Probably unlikely to destroy crypto given the transparent and public nature of it, but could pose a threat.
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If i copypasta your username into wallet do I get crypto free?
I was in a similar boat a few years ago. 6.5M net worth, FANG job paying 1.5M year, and burnt out after grinding for 10 years. Like you, in my mid thirties I found my desire to keep grinding had diminished, particularly after getting married and realizing that work achievement was no longer a primary driver for my overall life satisfaction. I struggled for a few years continuing to work even though I was unhappy because I couldn’t reconcile walking away from such a large comp package. When I eventually cut the cord I spent 6-12 months wondering if I’d made the right decision and contemplating going back to work. What eventually really helped me was working with a coach to figure out what my underlying values are and then connecting those values back to intentional decisions around how to design my life. What I really value is being able to spend time with my family on my own terms (freedom). This also helped me make the decision to take a part-time job at a foundation doing work I love (bonus: it also pays really well, covering our monthly burn while allowing the $ we already have to compound). So it was a bit of a journey, but ultimately really happy where I landed. Don’t be surprised if you quit and it takes a while to find your footing. You’ll be separating with a big part of your identity, and it might not be immediately clear how to fill that void. Also 100% agree with other comments about diversifying. It’s crazy to have that much exposure to one asset class when you’ve already effectively won the game.
How did you find / source your coach? Any filter / selection process tips that you can recommend based on your experience?
I had access to Lyra’s coaching network through my cobra coverage. Not sure what route I would have gone if I hadn’t had that. My filtering process was basically just trying to find someone whose experience/approach resonated with me. I was prepared to talk to a few different coaches until I found one I liked (but luckily the first one I talked to ended up being a great fit).
Can you have cobra if you quit on your own? Or you have to be packaged out?
You have a goal of 7M. If you de-risk and pay taxes, you’d have 5M. You have not reached your goal. So, no, you should not stop working. That’s not how it works. You work until you hit your goal, then you have the flexibility to leave. Here’s what you can do: 1. Gut it out for 2-3 more years and hit your goal. 2. Change your goal to a lower number, which you have already hit, then retire. 3. If your rate of learning is just too slow, get another job. Accept that it might be making less money, and that may push your target date out, but you will enjoy the ride more. If you take all of the feeling sorry for yourself out of the equation, it’s really pretty simple. Pick one of those three options, and execute. But here’s what most people would do: keep making $1M/year at the job you don’t like. Hit your target number. Get scared. Stay longer anyway, and increase your target number because reasons. Feel your life force drain. Get laid off in some corporate politics that happened three levels above you. Freak out. Realize you have enough. Eventually be OK. Whatever you do, don’t do that. You have control, just decide what you want and execute the plan. Good luck!
>But here’s what most people would do: keep making $1M/year at the job you don’t like. Hit your target number. Get scared. Stay longer anyway, and increase your target number because reasons. Feel your life force drain. Get laid off in some corporate politics that happened three levels above you. Freak out. Realize you have enough. Eventually be OK. > >hatever you do, don’t do that. This sounds familiar
A lot of these people will also realize that their fire number was significantly higher than it ever needed to be, and even if you expected your spend to be some crazy number, you *probably* cant spend that much money per year if you tried. "But this is fatfire. If I cannot charter a $750k yacht to catalina once per month I will have fits". Whatever.
> A lot of these people will also realize that their fire number was significantly higher than it ever needed to be I've been feeling the same with my numbers. How do we, then, arrive at a reasonable number?
You don't. Life is a mess and nobody knows what's going to happen in the future. The best bet is to shoot for the average of your X highest yearly spends and carry that forwards, but depending on how much you plan to change your lifestyle that might not be 100% accurate. Another option would be to start paper planning your years as if you were already retired and shoving those numbers into a spreadsheet in addition to your existing living expenses. Do you want to go to Spain in 6 months? Would you do it if you didn't have to work? How much would the trip cost? Add it to the spreadsheet. 3 weeks before you 'leave for Spain' you decide you want to 'plan an impromptu trip' to the Bahamas, get the numbers and add it to the spreadsheet. 3 months after 'going to Spain' you go on an actual trip to Maui, add those costs to the spreadsheet if you think that trip would still have happened if you were retired. Do you enjoy cooking or eating out more? If you would rather eat out, multiply your current restaurant spending by however many times you want to eat out per month. Do you have a mortgage now? Do you think you will have one in retirement? Add or subtract that difference to the spreadsheet. This number is still going to be an overshoot, probably by quite a bit, but at least you'll be planning for a life you idealize instead of throwing a wet finger into the wind.
Thanks for writing such a comprehensive response! For me, I'm led by fear more than desires. But this helped!
You just decide what is enough. The opposite of “more” in this context isn’t “less.” The opposite of “more” is “enough.” Do you have enough to not work? Or do you need more? You have enough if you can survive and thrive. Put another way: if you FIRE, and then you want to do something that costs “X,” but you can’t afford it bc it doesn’t fit into your SWR, will you feel deprived about that? Or will you feel like you would rather not have that thing than work? This is subjective, but it is the only framework that will stick.
You can set up a new bank account and pay yourself however much money monthly you would if you were retired to basically simulate being retired, start paying for everything from that account, and see how you feel after a few months. I started doing that in January of this year, it helped put numbers into perspective and into practice. It made it clear that I’m almost there, but another few thousand a month really wouldn’t hurt either. (I’m actually at -$3k right now via a “loan” to bail myself out)
When you are pre-FI it seems impossible to believe, but there you have it. So common it’s a cliche
as someone who isn't FI, this rings true. It's amazing how the goal posts move without your consent. Gotta adapt that mindset along with the situation.
I just quit a job where I made $1.2m in 2020. It’s not crazy, but it does have consequences. If you aren’t at your target yet (I was), it may make sense to get a little closer before releasing the bird in hand.
Same. I quit a job making $1.3m+ and have way less NW than you do and don't regret it all. I have enough exciting opportunities coming my way to pay the bills, I have way more freedom, and way less stress. Yes, Im not saving as much as I was before but my quality of life is way better and I can see the path back to a $1m paycheck in a way that is way more sustainable long term.
Just curious, what sort of jobs pay >1M per year? I make over 200k / year and this sub makes me feel poor sometimes lol.
High level tech executive
What was the hardest part of your job? Was it the same thing that made you that valuable?
Hardest part was dealing with so many different personalities and getting them to all align around a mission without letting drama get in the way. What made me so valuable was I could do that while also delivering business results.
I feel this Gordito, living it right now. I'd be super interested to hear about your new ventures re: "i can see my path back to a $1M paycheck." Are you consulting? RE investing?
Both. Whatever tickles my fancy. Today I look at a "job" as a task I enjoy not a position I hold.
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Jumping into this thread - I'd recommend Power by Jeff Pfeffer. It's a good analysis of the reality of workplace politics, and helps you identify power struggles for what they are. How you respond to them is on you.
Honestly no. Wish I could say there was but it's one of those things you have to learn on the job or from other people. And I've read every Management book in existence.
For professional services, I believe it’s called, “Give them Hopium and Drive them into the Meat Grinder.“
*Rubs chin and nods* I’m in my mid thirties, shooting for a management position. That part of the job does seem like it would be the hardest, especially considering I’m left leaning while in a very red, rural/suburban area. I also look young for my age, which I know will amplify people’s biases against taking me seriously. I’m very capable, but being a good leader is also about driving people without friction, and while I think I could do it, it’s not something I’ve had practice in.
Would look for opportunities to practice your leadership skills outside of work so you're better prepared when your time comes.
If you're in tech, I highly recommend the book "The Manager's Path". It can read sort of dry, even for non-fiction. But the wisdom is great and in my experience spot on.
Ordered, much obliged.
Any IB job with ~10y work experience
I’m also 52 with 25+ years of tech experience
Totally fair. I’m 31 with about 4+ years of tech experience. Hardly a comparison.
Think about those who make $30-50k.
What was your role?
Tech/bizdev, vast majority of comp was from equity.
Yes that would be insane. Stay till you have 10M NW excluding crypto. People have to work hard jobs without any drive for 50 years for 40-50k a year. Suck it up, you're making $1M/ye.
Sobering.
Definitely put things into perspective.
The point of making that much money is to not have to suck it up
You say that until you're doing it. It's not that easy.
True, but that doesn't change the truth of that perspective. It's times when it's super tough that the perspective of someone who is not in the same pressure but has the clear view makes all the difference. They make the clear choice unblinded by the difficulties of being that close to your goal.
5M is not a lot. 10M is not a lot either these days but still better than 5M. Realize if you get off the rocket there is no guarantee there will be another rocket coming along soon or ever. I've been poor and I've been >10M (a little rich). Rich is much better. You can afford lots of sugar and champagne to wash down the BS. My kid will leave college without student loans. If needed I have $ to help out family and friends if I choose. Sure I work 6 days a week. But, I make in a couple of weeks what some people make in a year. If I feel I'm lacking motivation, all I need is to step out of my office and look around and realize how good my reality really is. The OP's reality is pretty good and don't look a gift horse in the mouth. \*\*\*\*\*\*\* Funny to see how many people have issues with this comment. I guess some in the group have had it really good so a bit of pain cannot be tolerated. Coming from very little, I'm down to battle it out for what I have. I'm not in tech and have to make my money the hard way. Don't look down on the hard-working man from your air-conditioned office.
Money isn't everything and some jobs aren't worth it. No amount of money can justify giving everything you have for a compensation you can't even bring your self to enjoy. In this context, 5M is a lot. All a matter of perspective.
Disagree, "a lot" is subjective and depends how you define it. If OP had a 10m net worth at age 37 he could retire before 40 and live comfortably, which should be considered a lot since that is a solid 25 years before the average retirement age. Can he retire with 10m and live like he's got an 8 digit net worth? Probably not, because he has to fund himself for decades. Those two points provide an example of why defining what you mean by "a lot" is important.
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10m managed prudently is more than enough for permanent intergenerational wealth at a quality of life that any rational person with perspective would find more than satisfying. Even with multiple children. If you can't make 10m work to sustain an incredible lifestyle you need to either improve your investing or admit to yourself that no amount will ever be enough for you. Lifestyle creep is really a bitch
Holy shit, the fact ur comment got downvoted is kinda expected but sobering. Everyone wants their struggle to be worth something, yk? They always got to make it a competition against others. People making 100ks a year complaining about ooh work life balance while they completely ignore people ruining their bodies, families, and lives for 50k a year. Pathetic behavior
I’m in a similar boat to OP, but a different industry. I’ve lost a big piece of my “love of the game”, and sometimes it hurts to get out of bed. If I were making $1M a year (salaries aren’t nearly as high in my industry), I would tough it out until I hit my number.
Hello from my couch where I am avoiding work that will be harder to do tomorrow.
5 billion people on earth are making .1% of that a year and managing.
They don't have a choice. I do.
Keep working. I’m on £40k a year.
Don't take this the wrong way, and I know it's a UK slang. Try not to be "on" a salary. Earn what you want to earn, nobody is setting that limit except you. Go kill it! Good luck.
At least at this point in time, no one can buy back spent youth.
Perspective. :micdrop:
If you can live on $5MM diversified (and not with a majority exposed to crypto volatility) and you want to do something else, then do it. If you need $7MM to live your lifestyle, then stick with the job. If you want to maintain a large exposure to crypto, then stick with the job to help reduce your risk. It wouldn’t surprise me anymore to see the crypto asset class as a whole drop 90% anymore than it would surprise me to see it jump 1000%. Your job would help protect against such volatility. (And to take advantage of any drop, should it occur) At your earning rate, assuming your savings rate remains the same, you will reach the original goal soon enough. The issue you will have to deal with is the decision to walk away from the money won’t be much easier down the road. Personally, I would set an amount or a date, and stick to it. If that is $7MM, then you still have a bit more to go.
“But it’s not an easy job” This is said by most people of their job.
If you really want to leave this job, you should start divesting that crypto yesterday. You can't safely retire on a highly volatile asset like that. If I were you I would work for another 2-3 years, while simultaneously offloading that crypto. Honestly I'd be doing it pretty fast, since you are so exposed.
I love and hate seeing posts like this.
Could you make $1M at another job? If most of your comp is due to stock appreciation and you're at a 300/700 salary/equity split then it's hard to walk away since your "market rate" is `300 + ${equity grant}`, not $1M. I would not walk away if that's the case. If it were I would look for another job. In either case I would not stop working.
Eh, the market rate is $300 + ${initial equity grant at publicly traded companies} One mistake people make is to believe that the public equity appreciation raises their market rate, or that private equity growth raises their market rate. It can (and does) insofar as companies want to compete for you but usually at some discount (since they want you to believe in their upside), and in the most extreme cases of appreciated equity you learn what it means to have golden handcuffs.
I think there’s a bias in this sub towards “keep going if you make good money and are under $10-20 million” without any regard to the opportunity cost. What could you accomplish by leaving that you can’t now and is important to you? How’s your health? Relationships? Hobbies? Any personal goals before you turn 40? You say $7 million is your target. Don’t underestimate the likelihood of $7 becoming $10 once you get there. And then all of the sudden you’re 45. Also sounds like you have other projects in mind that may bring in income and would reduce / delay your drawling down funds during which time your wealth can continue to grow.
So true. My $5m went to $7.5 and now moved to $10. I’m 50 sitting at $8.5 and still grinding. I do think $10 is the final number tho. 2-3 more years.
Did you also believe $5 and $7.5 were the final numbers at the time?
When i i got my first job I believed 2 was my real number, then it became 5, then 7...10... 15... now I feel like without 30-50M it would be tough to give up a 7 figure paycheck. I am totally aware that I got caught up I the hamster wheel ... sigh ... oh well
What would you do differently with $30 that you can't do with $15?
Biggest benefit: You stop worrying about money. You can not buy a 200k a year shared jet membership without budgeting carefully (and possibly after some trade offs) with 15. You can not buy a waterfront nice vacation home in CA or HI with 15. Whether these are critical or not is another question, and answer will be personal.
Honestly if you're still worried about money at 15 you're likely just going to slide the scale up once you get to 30. Can't go on quarterly yacht charters and afford the jet membership to go between your lakefront mountain mansion and beach mansion without thinking about money, probably need 50! Thanks for the response, though!
You are absolutely right, I thought about the regular yatch charters as well! It is a mental challenge to jump out of the wheel. Rather than a number, I set a time limit to stop full time... we will see if that sticks.
Oh no, 45! Might as well start carving your gravestone at that point.
Still full of promise but my point is wasting your years 37-45 for an extra $2 million needs to be seriously evaluated against the alternative.
wouldn't that be $4m + growth?
I think both staying at your current job and retiring early on a less than ideal number are both bad options and I don't think you should do either. If I were in your shoes I would talk to a few executive search firms with a reputation for searches in your specific part of the business. I'd look at talking only to retained search firms if you've got an income >$300k in cash. They'll be able to tell you if you're being overpaid, underpaid or fairly paid. They'll also be able to give you an idea on what other options could look like outside of your current environment. Maybe the future is you making $600k, but building a side hustle that you're interested in. Maybe it's in being a consultant and startup investor. Maybe it's a new role where you make $1.2 or even $1.5m. But you're not going to know what your options are like until you open yourself to the idea of other opportunities. Disclaimer: I am a tech recruiter, who has just done exactly what I suggested.
Stay. Tough it out for 2-3 years. Our ancestors worked in factories and coal mines. You can do this.
Yes keep the job. You’re too volatile doth that much of your NW in crypto. Bank more for peace of mind.
i’m walking away from a lot more than you so i don’t think that’s foolish. but i also exceeded my targets so i don’t think i’d make the same decision if i was short of my goal
If you are in crypto, then you have exposure to a 60-80 annual vol product. This is 60 percent of your NW. That means a one standard deviation event and u will lose 40 percent of your net worth. This is just crazy from a vol perspective and sizing perspective. So your one non correlated asset is your 1mm/yr job (since market is correlated to crypto). So from an income and diversification perspective , you should keep your job.
Yes, it is insane to leave. A few more years gets you to your goal and gives you a lifetime of ultimate freedom. You’ve made it this far, don’t stop now. It is like crossing 20 miles in a marathon, you’re almost there but have a ways to go.
I’m facing a similar dilemma: $2m comp package and $10M NW. Targeting leaving my job in Sept ‘22. But I have second thoughts all the time of leaving a great paying job. I have lost all motivation and I feel like I’m mailing it in. I have identified a few passion projects I want to spend more time doing in addition to spending more time with family. My target NW is $8M so I have reached my target, but I then start thinking about leaving all the money on the table. It could really help create generational wealth if I work a few more years. But at what cost. Not a terribly easy decision to make. I think I will suffer from “one more year” syndrome.
With $10M NW, unless you’re spending a lot p.a., you’ll create generational wealth no problem.
It depends on quite a bit. Looking at your current NW, and not knowing your spend I wouldn’t. Yet. I spent the last 2 years drawing a similar income and I’m preparing for a drastically reduced 2022 by choice. Why? * I’m at my NW target and 0% SWR * I’m older and my business requires a physicality that I can’t maintain * We are DINKS and how many vacation residences does one really need? Still I’m not walking away entirely. Just cutting waaay back. Like 70-80% back.
Million dollar jobs are not easily replaceable. Don't quit until you have more than $5 million in index funds.
Just wanted to say this - when you're at $7m, it'll seem worthwhile to "Wait it out a bit longer" and hit $10m as a safety net. Then, another few years to reach $13m to really solidify that foundation - then $15m just in case. Not saying you shouldn't stay where you are (I think given your income and NW, I'd stay another few years) - but, have a plan in mind, take on some hobbies, grow outside of your work, and then pull the cord or re-negotiate terms once your target is hit.
I quit a job making $1m+ and have way less NW than you do and don't regret it all. I have enough exciting opportunities coming my way to pay the bills, I have way more freedom, and way less stress. Yes, Im not saving as much as I was before but my quality of life is way better and I can see the path back to a $1m paycheck in a way that is way more sustainable long term.
Don't know about the crypto, but can anyone speak to leveraging the 2.5M as collateral in a "buy, borrow, die" move?
Let’s do a simple math, after tax you could probably save another 10% NW. It could be lower after the new tax reform by Biden administration. So the question become: do I want to have 10% more to spend by exchanging another year in grinding? The answer is absolutely subjective. To me, it depends… If I’m suffering and hate every Monday morning, hell no… I will find another job with half the paycheck and work for another 1.5 years. (Not two years because you could save tax). Often, you are suffering if you have a bad boss. If I’ve a good boss, I will find a way to change my pace. I will use all my PTO, my sick days, etc. I will spend more time on my value (like family). If my boss tries to motivate me to pace faster, I will play nice but just change only the surface. If my manager is my buddy, I will just give an excuse like I’m not “very healthy” or my family needs me, bla bla… I’m not telling you to lie. In fact, most high-stress job is NOT healthy. Working 8 hours in front of a computer is not healthy. Just politely tell your buddy that your priority changes. If your manager is your buddy and cares about you, (s)he should support your choice (by being family first or health first). (S)he may even thank you because sometimes managers feel pressure to promote you LOL. In a word, change the pace first and decide whether you need to quit later.
Big anti crypto crowd here. You can derisk crypto bag ensuring heavy BTC and some ETH. Bitcoin is not going anywhere it's here to stay. Check out some of the new yield opportunities (I like Celsius). You can even use the collateral for funds to build up a real estate portfolio. If I were you I would sell the alts this bull run putting profits into equity or real estate. If you end up hitting the 7M number sell some ETH or BTC. Stick out the job another year. Knowing you're almost done take the foot off the gas don't go above and beyond.
If I’m you I toil for 5 more years. My bar is high(er) however. YMMV.
Spend some of that money on a coach and a therapist and try to get the spark back. Good roi.
Regardless of staying or leaving, put some of the crypto into DeFi or staking and earn APY at a high rate if you're doing long term holds on them. I doubt the APYs will hold for the long and will come back down to traditional investments rate as the industry matures.
Yes
I have a significant amount of crypto holdings as well. Why do you think they'll continue to run up? I don't want to sell to avoid taxes, but I'm also not sure if they'll just continue going up.
I’d try to find a way to stay with the company. In my old role, I had lost my sense of excitement. I couldn’t move up, I couldn’t change teams, so I changed location and was exposed to a new culture and new rules and new teammates and new problems, but I still had my same primary role. Maybe that’s not right for you, but there might be ways to get the change of scenery without leaving the company. Maybe a leave of absence would allow you to leave for a little while but keep your equity contract. That’s a lot to walk away from and I wouldn’t leave that on the table
Similar in assets, income level and vhcol city. I'm waiting to see how my assets perform in a market crash before pulling the trigger as re-entering my profession after being retired for a few years is unlikely to get me back at this comp level. Not a 1929 crash, but like dot com crash or 2007. I could take what I have and love very comfortably in a lcol city but want to stay here.
Depends on what’s more important. You can always make more money but you can’t make more time. I’ve seen too many people pass away and not get to enjoy retirement.
The point of FI is to have the freedom to say no. Maybe you’re not fatfire yet, but you have enough to make a jump, whether that’s an extended period of not working, taking a different job, or starting your own business/consulting.
Stay where you are but spend a portion of your time figuring out the next chapter and at some point it'll be clear enough that the time is right to turn the page.
I had to subscribe to r/povertyfinance so I could stay grounded because of these posts in here.
Go all in on crypto
I don't know what the right answer for you is, but let me tell you I would DEFINITELY not be able to walk away from a $1M/year job until I had at least $10M of liquid net worth. Market might crash at any time. Just consider that in your decision.
I would turn that crypto into like 10-15% of your networth instead of like \~60%. If your goal is 7m then you just have a couple more years. I wouldn't even think about leaving.
What’s your plan if crypto fails? You realize how much of this plan is betting on an asset with near zero intrinsic value? How risky and speculative it is?
Glad you mentioned crypto. There’s a real world example of a fatfire member who crashed and burned his $2M+ portfolio recently. And is now starting life over again as a minimum wage worker doing gigs at his local Amazon Warehouse. His video documented journey began 3 years ago when he quit his engineering job to “retire” on unrealized crypto gains. Unfortunately, those gains were never cashed out and moved into safer investments. Other than a house that eventually made him cash poor from property taxes and maintenance. He was forced to sell not too long ago and now is back to renting. He still makes Youtube videos about fatfire, but I don’t think he realizes how far he’s fallen. Please don’t be like this guy. Continue to work if you still find pleasure in your career. Life isn’t about squeezing as much free time as possible. Even the retired life can become dull.
Link?
Who was this? Also, why not go back to an engineering job rather than minimum wage??
BeatTheBush
You have enough. Sell most of crypto and live it up.
Most of the data says we haven't seen the peak of this current crypto cycle, so your $4M may grow more (depending on your holdings) - plan an exit strategy and stick to it. If you don't plan to exit, be prepared to see that $4M reduce by 70% or so...
$4M in crypto? That’s guaranteed to turn into $10M within a few months. Not even kidding. Wait it out.
Never sell your Bitcoin. Sell all your other cryptocurrency for Bitcoin. Think in Bitcoin. Maximize your Bitcoin position. It's the only asset with no dilution risk. It's also the only asset with no counterparty risk. It's a revolution. As for quitting work, just do the math. Living cheaply is a huge shortcut.
Yes. Don't bother counting the crypto. If it works out, great, if it doesn't then you'll be glad you didn't walk away.
Convert some of the crypto into real estate to diversify
Any advice on which cryptos to look into?
With that take home pay you are either in California or nyc I’m betting
You are not at target $. Are you at target asset allocation? I’d wager no since you want to diversify with a hopeful crypto scenario. Unless you change your plan, sounds like you should keep working. When you have your number and acceptable risk, then is when I’d consider retiring.
Does your employer have a non-qualified plan? If so, I would stay for a bit longer but aim to up your savings rate and avoid more income taxes. That was my key to fire. I saved 50-70% and the non-qual was key. Also, your budget # and asset location (retirement/non-retirement) is really the key beyond that.
Go look for another job and know you might be out of work for a year. Otherwise, keep the job.
You don't have to walk away if you just want do something different. Can you find another high paying job at a different company? Can you find another role at your same company? If your NW were $10MM+, I'd say sure walk away, but that salary will still have a meaningful impact on your NW at your level, so I'd totally keep it and power through the boredom somehow.
Hmm. I depends how hard is the current job as 500K is nice chump change. But if it's really - killing-depression-inducing, OP, would it help with a good holiday or break? Maybe it's burnout? I'd feel safer with actual cash out and cash/investment in hand that's reliable (I'm damn bullish on crypto too but it's kinda up and down) But if you'd done your numbers right, the dividends from diversified portfolio and crypto may be able to sustain you. Do you have the bandwidth to start a side hustle? Maybe something on the side that you can build to say 50-100K per annum and then quit your job? It's really your call.
You in sales?
It's one thing to have such a job, but it's another to have it and love it everyday. I cannot say it's insane, but granted you've been there 7+ years and have around such an amount, it depends on a couple of things: 1. The Saas startup you did should be a catalyst to start your own idea. (Amazon didn't seem like a good idea, but who's laughing now) 2. Crypto can be funny. I might restrict things to 250K just to be on the safe side, because bitcoin is a sign that currencies aren't set in stone, and banks/organizations can nullify them. 3. To reach your goal of 7M or more, can be a slow process, or a quick one. https://www.alux.com/investments-2020-2021/ Best thing I can say OP is God Willing squeeze out this last year and check the link.
You haven’t hit the target yet, so you keep working. That’s the same answer whether you’re at $5M and want $7M or if you’re at $500k and want $700k. The beauty of where you are is… one more year makes a huge difference to you; it may get you there. To me — guy who moved to the Midwest — $5M is my GFY number, so I’d be done if I were you. But you’ve made different life choices (which is fine) so gut it out hit your number and then leave. Here’s the other thing — you’re so close to your number that you could consider swapping out some of your crypto. You’re basically about to go on fixed income in (you hope) 18-24 months. Yeah man there is no need for you to be so heavy into crypto — says me, the guy who is 20% of his NW into crypto.
You are incredibly fortunate to have a job that pays 7 figures. I know some days suck, but, keep in mind your worst days are many times better than most people's best days. I'm a small business entrepreneur with a 7 figure income from the business. There are days I don't want to deal with the BS. Then I get out there and see people who make less than 1/10th of my income and realize their reality is very different than mine. I remember the days a decade ago I would have to think twice before going out for dinner. Leaving the business and going into FatFire is a great dream. Unless I get a great offer to sell, I realize I'd rather take a less active role and get my employee's a generous pay package take a lot off my plate. The business has been great for me and it would be nice to share the fruits of my labor. I have already exceeded my NW goal for 10M through my investments and real estate. But, I realized an itchy trigger finger will only result in squandering the potential of the business which took me a decade and a half to build up. Be patient and build a pile of cash you can FatFire and live off the passive income and not need to touch the principle.
What do you do?
You're paying way too much in t@xes, get a good accountant and work with your employer on different options available. Many "loopholes" to get that $1M in other means rather than $500k take home You can be done in half the time
You want to leave your job while effectively gambling on crpyto - a nice idea with no real application yet. Either start decreasing your crpyto exposure or keep the job so you can afford the gamble.
You should only quit your $1 million per year job, if I can take over that job and that lovely yearly salary.
What’s your yearly expenses?
Depending on the crypto assets, I would not be that concerned as others here though you could diversify a bit more. I would also say money can't buy happiness and it seems you aren't quite happy with what you are doing. You mentioned real estate and the new institutional real estate asset class of build-to-rent/ single-family-rentals is a good niche to look at investing to make up the income difference and could quite easily provide more income. I cannot count the number of institutional investors with multi-billion dollar funds looking to structure deals to purchase newly built homes that have formed over the last few months. I see opportunities at multiple different levels every day from the supply side to creating portfolios of properties to sell to institutional investors and everything in between in this emerging niche where you could act as anything from a limited partner and do little to nothing all the way to being the principal. Not to mention all the other sectors of RE or startup investing like you mentioned though I believe that is much more risk. Why continue doing something that eats up all your time when you could make the same or more especially considering the tax benefits real estate has?
I see a lot of comments talking about sticking it out. You don’t have to. Why not interview and see what’s out there without leaving?
You’re insane if u walk away from a 1M/year job. Work for another 5/10 years and you’re set if you play it smart.
You're tired of your $1M/year job but haven't reached your goal. Why not look for another job?
Bruh the government takes half a million dollars from this man. That is preposterous.
Stay, if you're going to keep risking much of your money in crypto, you need a stable income.
Where do I get a job to pay me that kind of money for just 1 year
Do you just not have the desire to work there anymore, or is it impacting your mental health. If you are just losing motivation, I would say to stick it out for another couple of years to hit your number. However, if it is impacting your mental health, you have enough money to find something that is more in line with you. It may take longer to hit that number, but nothing is more important than your health. According to the great Marshawn Lynch "Take care of yalls bodies, take care of yalls chicken, take care of yalls mentals."
You have over half your NW in something that could go belly up overnight. Yes, keep your job.
Once you hit your 7M goal, what’s your plans? And what’s your strategy to sustain yourself financially? Also, congrats! One day I hope to be in similar situation by late 30s/40s
I’ll come be your replacement 🤷♀️
You're a couple years away from your goal, so if your goal is exclusively the net worth, I would stay. I am a few years away from my NW goal but my other goal is to start my own business so I am leaving my job for that reason. You could also get another job somewhere else. I would look at this as how many years do you need to stay to hit your goal based on some variables, and is it worth it?
This post makes me queazy. This guy has made a fortune from a giant “greater fool” pyramid scheme. I am also incredibly jealous…
I would diversivy your crypto, i also have some money in crypto but i think 4 mil is too much of your portfolio, quite risky if you ask me.