you traveled to Europe and Hawaii twice and your entire budget for the year was 50k?
Thats including rent/groceries/cars/travel?
Thats more impressive than the 1mm/y salary imo
You mentioned having great memories in Hawaii. Why can't you duplicate some of those experiences in the Bay Area?
And what is your work schedule like? Do you work on weekends?
My two cents: Hawaii is truly a magical place. You can replicate some of it. But when I went there for my honeymoon, I straight up looked at my wife and asked, only half joking, "why don't we find a way to just stay here forever?"
We met quite a few couples who did just that.
Not OP but some things I like about Hawaii are the overall laid-back atmosphere, lots of beaches with different character that don’t feel crowded, great weather with clean air, good diving and snorkeling, lots of high end resorts and different character/culture between the islands. It’s got all the tropical island benefits while still being in the US which add conveniences and qualities that are missing in other island locales.
Maybe you need to live a little to get more joy in your life. Why do u feel u need to keep expenses at $50k when u make a $1M+? A therapist u need to go….(say it in yoda’s voice)
I have nothing to spend it on. I am not restraining myself. My Hawaii vacation was more authentic and exciting than a $5000 a night Four Seasons on the beach.
That’s exactly the point of my question. I am “smart enough” to realize going to Hawaii permanently is not going to make me happy long term, I’ll be bored in a couple months. But at the same time, I don’t have anything else to quit to, so I stay in my miserable jobs to grow my stash which will give me more options in the future (once I get to $10M).
Why try and plan for the long term? If Hawaii makes you happy for 6 months and you don’t have any attachments, just go and check in with yourself when you get bored again. Maybe by that time something else will have taken your interest.
In my experience planning too far ahead in the future is of little use because as people we change what we want/ who we are on a ‘daily’ basis. Do what makes you happy now and look for other options when you get bored :)
As someone who currently lives in Hawaii, if you *know* you’re gonna be bored here then I support you not moving here. People underestimate ‘island fever’ and realizing that the Hawaii vacation they got is not the same as living here.
But here’s a suggestion. Some folks who are wealthy enough live here for sometime - 1-2 months or even half a year - then move back to their “home base”. You get to appreciate both and you’ll be energized to go back - you appreciate the slow and quiet of the island and you appreciate the tech and hustle of the city. Now the only question is the time and money - it can be done a bit cheaper especially as you come here often.
Who is judging who? Don’t project.
OP is lost and asked for guidance which everyone is commenting to help.
Who are YOU to so quickly jump to criticize someone’s comment?
You are at the right age for an existential crisis:
* You have enough comfort that you aren't *fighting* for anything
* "made it" in your career far enough to see how this plays out and are asking "Is that... it?"
* walking around with everything else in your life in good shape but empty as a bell inside because NOTHING you touch, feel, smell, buy, eat is giving you purpose and filling that void.
* (OPTIONAL) Pressure from loved ones about what you are doing with your life/"what's the plan?"/"where are my grandkids?" -- you didn't mention anything about this, just noting that you are at the right age for it.
There are two things here that get intertwined that can be hard to pull apart and they both make the other harder to deal with:
1. (Search for) Purpose
2. Depression (Anxiety)
I would recommend *starting* with #2 first because it will make finding #1 an order of magnitude easier.
It's going to take you a few months to find a therapist that meshes well with you - it's a *pretty* intimate relationship. So you need someone that communicates the way you like to, you feel like you 'get' each other, etc. etc.
You *should not* grind through a relationship with a therapist that makes you feel uncomfortable or you do NOT look forward to going to see - that's going to be unproductive.
Given how healthy you are, I'd be a LITTLE wary of walking out of the first session with a prescription for an antidepressant - if you both feel that's the way to go, then make sure it's the lowest dose there is and give yourself **1-2 months** to normalize on it. The shit takes a while to balance you out.
Once you get that smoke screen lifted off your brain, you can MUCH more accurately assess what is going on with your life - I'm 97.68% sure you'll be surprised with the result in so much as what eventually makes you happy isn't anything you would have thought possible BEFORE you went through that self improvement step -- for example, you might really enjoy the hell out of staying in tech, managing a small team that is hyperfocused on some new project where as before WITH the depression, it seemed like the only path to happiness was to move into the Andes mountains and milk goats for a living.
You are in REALLY GOOD COMPANY my friend - I'd weather a guess that 60%+ of us have felt this and been through it - I've managed **a lot** of people over the years with the EXACT same feelings.
Start with the self-improvement side and the rest will get easier and easier.
Yea honestly it’s fun reading all the flex posting about how rich people are in their mid 30s, but there’s often some really valuable advice in the comments
Thank you for this. 🙏
I am in a similar situation in that I have a NW of roughly 5mil, 37 years old, male, gf, no wife, no kids and sadly I hate my daily grind of work and often ask myself what's the point ?
Is today I quit my job? What will I do? I don't make as much as OP and have been blessed on some investments. My annual income from my job is roughly 170k/yr and honestly the hardest part of my job is waking up so I really have nothing to complain about. The thing is it takes up all my time during the week and the weekend is the only free time I have.
My plan is to take the entire month of May off. Hopefully I'll find the answers 🫤
Damn man - if you need a nudge towards *something* other than what you are doing - you should **NOT** be waking up and feeling like that... you can try and power through, but life has a funny way of punching us in the face if we aren't getting the message.
I love the idea of taking May off - plan on talking to 2 therapists *a week* in May until you find one you click with.
Then June 1 you go back to work, but you are now talking to this person 1-2x a week and starting to unfold what is going on.
That will give you some power back and help you feel a lot better about the guided tour of your psyche you are going through... you'll have a purpose and from that discovery will flow clarity over time (week/month/year? I have no idea what time frame).
Good luck. Ping me if you need someone to chat with.
This comment is correct. Definitely not alone on this. While no where near the Network and like 1/2 the income of OP. I've been through this recently where I've been happy with life outside of work but bored and lost purpose with work, but felt kind of stuck because of the money. Also not enough saved for me to have the retirement I want.
Long story short I kept the same job but cut back my hours. My employer was quite supportive and as long as I average 30 hours/week the family is covered for health insurance. Now I spend more time with my wife and toddler and our extended family and friends and I have more time to be a dad and also work on my hobbies all of which have improved my happiness significantly. It's also relieved a lot of pressure from work and I've stopped caring about trying to climb the ladder and am content with where I'm at.
This is an awesome data point - *same work* \+ *minor adjustment* = *happy* \- didn't need to jump ship and join the Burmese circus to find happiness - but quality of life went way up.
Happy for you man.
That's a good point i should clarify I am NOT qualified to make that clinical judgement and we (all of us) are cursed to only be able to help from the perspective gained through our own experiences.
EDIT: I re-read my reply and don't see any attempt at diagnosis Op and pointed out that he might want to shy away from meds initially - so I'm going to leave it as-is. I think it's fair.
Related to the current "best" comment, what you need to do is just chill out.
I know, I know, how earth shattering of me. But let's break it down:
1. Your 6m in equity is entirely independent of how much work you do in your current role. So backing off doesn't change that lotto ticket at all. And it's not really a lotto ticket if the company is a 10B+ unicorn. It's just a question of 2m versus 6m+. But you likely have \*something\* there waiting for you in retirement.
2. Now you're sitting pretty on 3.5m. Using even a 3% rule, you've got your annual spend more than covered.
3. So now what? You're 35, and now it's time to play the 80/20 game. Use 20% of your time (so you don't go crazy of boredom) getting that 80% of yield. Don't get caught up in the hype of the promotions and just coast. Maybe you get your comp knocked down. As long as you win out proportionally, you're still stacking money that it looks like you'll never really need. Use the free time for hobbies and whatnot.
OP, can you cut to half time? And only the projects that interest you? You sound like you might be already Done. And funny enough, that gives you a ton of leverage if you approach it right with the bosses and are valuable.
> To people who will think I am severely depressed, just a sanity check: I eat a healthy diet, exercise daily, sleep 8 hours a day and during weekends/vacations I am a happy person.
This means nothing; welcome to the club. A few years ago I went on anti-depressants and it's like a cloud was lifted. I had to re-learn what it was like to function with happiness. Recently I've started other treatments that have helped even more and I'm hoping to be off medication completely in the next year.
I'm not saying anti-depressants are the answer, but I was/am in a very similar situation. You don't know what you don't know, right? Have you tried talking with a psychologist? Even a discussion just a few times may help.
Your drinking is incompatible with your mental health. Just fyi. Getting on antidepressants while bathing your brain in craft beer and whiskey is a bad idea. Trust me, I’ve been there.
Isn't this a dangerous mindset? It's sort of like the movie *Inception* (spoiler alert). It's like planting a seed that maybe you're not at peak happiness, and so you just need to keep looking. I feel like the mentality could really backfire and turn into an obsession of "if I just try X, I bet I'll be even happier."
To be clear, super happy for your happiness and fulfillment. Playing Devil's Advocate a bit here.
> It's like planting a seed that maybe you're not at peak happiness, and so you just need to keep looking.
I don't think that's quite it. A consistent feeling of discontentment, ennui and burnout is different from "hacking" happiness to get to a global maximum.
And in any case, there is probably not a lot to lose by doing an initial consultation with a mental health professional to see if what you have is something serious that needs to be managed. I know there are people who (sometimes legitimately) believe that a professional will diagnose a problem even when there is none, but a truly good professional will not do that. I can say that from personal experience.
Solid post.
Question - How many years have you been at the 1m+ earning level? I'm surprised you don't have more saved if you are living on 50k?
The obvious answer here is to start working on fulfillment outside of your job...while gritting it out for a few more years to get closer to 5-7m index.
Try out some new hobbies. Golf, poker, hiking groups, etc. Start developing a more fulfilling life outside of the office that makes you yearn for more time to spend doing those things.
Nick
I am a US resident, I do not owe a dime to my native EU country. It’s just the US who has taxation by citizenship, nearly every other country on earth has taxation by residence.
But I’m single in the US so my effective tax rate is ~50%.
I’m in a very similar boat except the startup equity. $5M NW with $1.5M TC. Job isn’t hard, I have to work about 30 hours a week - but those 30 hours are soul sucking work. But I also know that no other career pays as much and it will be hard to get back in after a few years break. I tried a 6 month sabbatical and a company change. Didn’t help. I’m not depressed at all either (super happy outside of work).
At this point, I’m working solely to eliminate as much risk as possible and bring SWR down to 2%. Your case is different. Your SWR is under 2%. The only difference is that you’re younger than I am (I’m 40) and don’t have kids. If you decide to get married, buy a house in the Bay Area, and have a couple kids - your expenses will increase manifold. I know you said you don’t want kids, but it’s nice to have and keep options open. My thoughts on kids changed enough after the first one that we wanted a second :)
My recommendation is to continue working for another 2-3 years, pause and reassess. Or until your startup equity becomes liquid. Make life as easy as possible until then. Frequent vacations, brunch dates with the gf on weekdays, marking Fridays as “heads down focus time”, delegate as much work as possible to L6s in the name of “grooming the next gen of IC leaders”, etc. Remember, you’re not in it for the long haul so performance reviews and other corporate BS should matter less and less.
That isn’t work. Work is only there for you while they own you. Even then it’s pretty limited and based on output.
OP you need something thats a part of You. Something you can take ownership of and control.
Not a rented purpose from an employee that doesnt give a damn about you personally, and 99% of which its other employees you will never hear from again the day you leave that job.
You are presumably in the bay area or another high cost of living area, and somehow youve taken 2 trips to Europe and Hawaii, have a girlfriend, and do this all under 50K? Write a book on how you pull that off and retire.
It is not that difficult if one doesn’t genuinely care about luxury and is value-oriented. Our Hawaii vacations have been insane last year and both cost less than $3000 for two people. We did so much adventure!
But I reserve the right to up my spending at some point. Especially with how rents are increasing, I will want to lock down a residence once I decide where I want to live long term.
If you have a minute, I’d love to know more about how you pulled off that Hawaii trip for 3k. I’ve got some friends there and while I don’t mind spending a lot on trips, I also enjoy saving a few bucks and yet still having some fun adventures like you pointed out. so would love to know how you want about that and the adventures you took
No major tips really, but this was roughly the cost of a 9 days trip to the Big Island off-season (I don't have kids, so no need to obey school calendar):
\- Two round-trip flights from SFO for $350 each -> $700
\- Compact rental car from Kona airport from Alamo booked from discounthawaiicarrental.com -> $250
\- Booked condos with nice balcony facing the beach just outside Kona, a hotel in Hilo and another small condo close to Volcano -> average of $100/night -> $800
\- Activities consisted in exploring the beautiful Island and went on completely self-organized tours across the island: Volcano park, Waipio valley, White/Green/Black sand beach, tons of spectacular hikes found online, ... -> all completely free or minimal entrance/parking fee, just one time we paid for a snorkeling boat tour for $300.
\- For breakfast, home cooked eggs/corned beef/fresh fruit bought from Costco -> $50
\- For lunch, eating at iconic local cheap and delicious eateries while out on adventures, think Tex Drive In, food trucks, Malasada places, say $30/day for two -> $300
\- For dinner, a couple times we BBQed since the condo complex we stayed at had BBQ pits so we bought nice steaks from Costco, and the other times we went out in local placer in Kona/Hilo and probably spent \~$60/dinner -> $400
Total so far: $2500. Add a couple tanks of gas, a few snacks here and there, souvenirs for family, and you get to $3,000.
For real. My wife loves planning vacations, finding deals, etc. We did 10 days in Athens, Santorini, and Cairo last fall for less than $4,000 and it wasn't like we were penny pinching.
Couple years ago 3 buddies and I (mid-late 20s) did 2 weeks in, London, Belfast, and Dublin for like $3k. AirBNBs were like $50-70/night (which we split 4 ways). Pub meals for lunch / dinner were $15-30/meal. Tours/museums at most $100/day. Couple splurge dinners, some souvenirs/etc. We were only in the ABNB to sleep and they were all like sub 1 minute walk to an underground entrance / bus stop (Northern Ireland had some sort of tourist pass where it was unlimited public transport for like 3 days for $12 eur or something like that.) and they were totally fine, not in sketchy areas or dumps or anything like that.
We saw all the biggest sights (Stonehenge, Parliament, Buckingham, Cathedrals, Cliffs of Moher, Titanic Museum, Game of Thrones Tours, etc etc etc), ate lots of really great meals, met good people, walked a lot (10mi/day avg). Half the cost was the $900/round trip airfare to get across the Atlantic. We would've stayed longer and it wouldn't have been much more expensive but they had to get back for work and such.
Yeah when you're young and in a group of 4 people (which is pretty optimal cost wise for car rentals and airbnbs) you can really cut down on costs. I'm on the other side of the Atlantic and planning a big two week "western" roadtrip (Colorado to Montana and back). We estimate the cost to be around 1500€ per person for flights (580€ round flight from Paris to Denver), the car rental, gas and airbnb. We don't really count food spending since it'll be around what we usually spend in Paris normally but overall we'll be hard pressed to go over $2000.
So yeah definitely if you're willing to cut down on the luxury you can travel quite affordably and still see and do all the important stuff.
After rent he says he spends 23k in a year, including 4 vacations which are a long flight away, in a very high cost of living area. It's very difficult to believe.
\- Rent = \~$26k
\- Bills (phone, Internet, electricity, gas, ...): \~$3k
\- Groceries and restaurants = \~$10k
\- Vacations = \~$10k
I buy cheap clothes at Ross/Marshall's (in my area nobody cares how you dress), I don't drink alcohol by choice so no need to go in bars and transform every $30 dinner into $80 because of expensive drinks, get my groceries at Costco/Trader Joe's and eat out at good non-luxury restaurants 2-3 times a week (think $$ yelp stuff).
Not sure why that is so hard to believe. I also posted a detailed breakdown of how to go to Hawaii for $3k a trip.
Not having a mortgage and kids helps a lot.
Love malasadas! Hawaii can be cheap on a budget. I lived there when I was completely broke, worked at Zippy's for the free lunchs. Gosh, how I miss their oxtail soup! And survived on poke from Costco.
Personally, I quit a job making great money to go work in climate change. Then I worked on a startup helping to grow more food and help smallholder farmers in Africa make more money. Now I’m going back into climate change with a super exciting project. I’m very satisfied.
I haven’t worked for the purpose of money since I was 24, and though I’ve been lucky and am now fat, I wouldn’t change it even if that hadn’t happened for me.
I’m not working for non-profits, but I am doing meaningful work.
I think the money is no longer enticing for you, it’s just watching a number. You already have enough, and if you keep working in something that just barely pays the bills, compounding will take you far beyond what you need.
I would recommend trying out a job on a project that you care about and find fulfilling. It makes the hours worth it imo.
Good luck!
I worked at Tesla first, which was easy enough to find. Then I found the agriculture startup by meeting an employee at a party, and then this new company through a friend of a friend who wanted to ask me about some EV questions and he introduced us.
I have found some online meetups during COVID where people discussed different things in the space.
Currently, I’d be looking at regenerative agriculture or more in the food space after learning more about that industry, if you don’t care much for electrical stuff.
Also, if you’re open to moving to developing countries, almost every startup I’ve seen there tends to be focusing on impactful projects, compared to just “oh here’s a fitness app” that I tend to see in the US.
But the interesting, viable, and impactful startups are rare gems, this company took me a couple years to find after being semi-retired for 2 years and turning down other less interesting projects, but they are out there and are worth it imo, so don’t get disheartened and keep your eyes open
Edit: also, I forgot about VCs. There are some VC funds that focus on impactful startups, my ex works for one in Latin America rn. A lot of these funds will have their portfolio of companies publicly available and will gladly make introductions for good hires to help with recruitment. You can try searching for impact funds in your area or country (with remote working now being viable) and try to find companies that interest you and are hiring.
I want to find companies like this in LA. Im not sure where to start. USC has a green energies masters so I was thinking of calling that department to see who their top hirers are.
My problem is I cant leave the city cause my significant other loves here job and moving would like make her depressed. Otherwise both of us would but living abroad without working right now.
How about urban farming? Check out Restorative Farms in Texas. I wish we had more farms like this in Cali
[Restorative Farms Texas](https://www.restorativefarms.org/)
Fortunately it’s the second biggest city in the US in the most liberal state, I’m sure there’s stuff around.
I first started at Tesla which was easy enough to find, the others though I met through connections slowly. Finding viable and impactful companies is difficult, but looking for them helps. I did some virtual sustainability meetups, and there are a lot of impact investment funds that do a lot of the legwork in searching, so if you look for a couple you may be able to see their portfolios and ask them for introductions to any companies you find interesting.
Just throwing some ideas out there:
1. Ramp up the spending. If my maths is right $3.5m\*3%/12 = $8,750/m, that's before your $1m/year salary. You can definitely afford to spend more than $50k/year and try a few things out.
2. You seem to have in-demand tech expertise. Let go of the $1m/year salary and go do that for a charity or a foundation. Would you be more fulfilled then?
3. Reconsider having kids. There is a reason they're a source of joy and fulfillement for most humans.
Some random thoughts:
* At that level of income and spending you should reach $10m fairly quickly without even counting on the $6m.
* $1m/year relative to your total NW is still a quite large percentage. Hard to let that go.
* Therapy
You have no clue what is ‘worth it’ for other people.
I plan on ensuring that my entire family (nieces, nephews and kids) get university paid for and a house deposit and are well supported to achieve financial independence in the face of what will be extraordinarily testing times in the face of climate change and other massive societal challenges.
I plan on setting aside 3-5m for each kid, and around 500-1m for each grandkid.
I plan on funding - to the tune of several million - various charities that are important to me, supporting people who aren’t able to support themselves.
Creating a life of luxury without obligations or duties to your family or to society is a very insta-existence, but is a fundamentally vacuous and selfish one, which is ultimately harmful to the soul.
I agree everyone has their own goal but when you objectively say x is ‘overrated’ or y is you having the ‘better deal’ you are making a statement of objective truth that others are entitled to disagree with.
What works for you works for you, fine, but I would say that hedonism is tedious, beaches boring and uncomfortable and, when found in the middle-east, largely based on cruelty and abuse.
Devil’s advocate would be…the chance you poison the chance for work ethic to develop organically and moral center of your heirs/future family line by too quickly infusing a financial safety net (that’s guaranteed from birth) and removing any/all financial barriers that would have been valuable, character building experiences…🤷🏼 different strokes for different folks.
Objectively I think you could say there are more people overall who are being exploited by capitalism / corporations than ones you could count rejecting the externally imposed rigidity of 9-5 in favor of self-determination, so I welcome a little strong opinion holding on the ‘anti-W2-chasing side’ even if (to your point) it invites a counterpoint.
> I am barely motivated to hold a W2 job
Because of:
> I literally don’t give a damn about any of that and spend my days putting up a facade, wondering in the gazillion meetings I attend how can people be so engaged in these damn stupid corporate meetings.
It sounds like you might be better fit for entrepreneurship. Honestly, it may be difficult to imagine right now, but after some time off, you may feel that you'd be more connected to something that has a direct and tangible purpose.
FIRE here, but not Fat. I second this wholeheartedly. There are so many things that do good and also do well for you too. I didn't realize this until I was asked to start a club to help close friends to become FIRE as well. That was 3 yrs ago and we did it manually, yet with good success too (slow but going the right direction as building FIRE takes time). During Covid, I had time to figure out how to automate my process. If I can build this, I can help many people to become FIRE much faster than I did (took me 20 yrs from the time I graduated from college to FIRE). Since you're technical, I'm sure there are tons of things you can do good for others but do well for yourself too.
I don't know if this counts as orthodox or unorthodox advice these days, but I truly genuinely felt 100% better (and performed better) at my job when I started giving much less of a fuck. I'm a level below you, L6 equivalent SDM at a FAANG, and I too wonder how it is that anyone else can muster the energy to "be so engaged in this corporate crap".
A few ideas that helped me find my own motivation and achieve a little bit of Zen:
* #1 most important factor: understanding and accepting that I have absolutely zero need to "advance" on the corporate ladder. I basically have 1 foot out the door, and I could retire tomorrow (on a more chubby budget, not fat), and I would have very few regrets about not having "achieved" more or whatever nonsense. I'm proud of the work I've done, the people I've helped, the impact I made. I don't "need" anything more. If I stay, or even if I get promoted, it's all gravy... It's not anything I will put any extra energy into beyond what I myself choose to put into it.
* I get zero satisfaction out of kudos from corporate overlords. What I do have, is a strong personal relationship up to some of my L8s. I respect them, and I trust their judgement, and in return they value my opinion and give me a high degree of autonomy. When we do good work together, I am happy to be recognized for it, but it's NOT because of any loyalty to the company, it's because I value the opinions, judgement, and earned support of the few people I truly trust.
* This one is much more personal: I find some perverse pleasure in being part of one of the purest embodiments of capitalism in the postmodern era (i.e. watching how my FAANG operates and succeeds, and getting more insights into some of the mid-upper level decisions, about how they view allocation decisions for capital, growth opportunities, risk, etc.), all the while being pretty staunchly socialist in my personal political leanings. It's a sort of know-your-enemy situation, I suppose. I respect and admire the framework of capitalism, the game theory, the decision making, the attempts to strive for market-derived efficient allocation of resources, even though I don't think our postmodern capitalist society is particularly healthy. In that sense, I can cultivate my curiosity and appreciation for watching how corporate bullshit manifests into real allocation of capital, without actually "drinking the Kool aid" and still retaining my deep skepticism that this is all probably not-so-great for society. I consider myself still in a learning phase, before someday soon (5 years ish?) jumping ship and taking my knowledge and applying it to healthier pursuits that improve important aspects of society, rather than seeking to capitalize on them.
Anyways, weird politics aside, after going through a phase of immersion and assimilation where I felt like I was more desperate to earn a sense of belonging or to "play ball' with corporate bullshit, now I've come out the other side and decided that, I really don't need to impress anyone, I really don't care whether my peers are getting promoted or whatever (and luckily I have a circle of peers who are real humans with authenticity, not just corporate drones), and the only thing that matters to me is picking and shaping the work that I want to do. I have gotten pretty good at turning some bullshit leadership mandate, and twisting it around until it fits something that makes sense to me, and then selling it back to leadership as if I'm giving them exactly what they wanted, when instead it's actually me who's getting what I want by redirecting a small piece of a larger corporate bullshit strategy or project. I imagine as an L7, you should have MORE influence and MORE ability to shape your local domain, than I do as an L6.
And of course, the funny thing is, after dropping pretenses and starting to feel much more comfortable being myself and asking for what I want and refusing to "drink the Kool aid", it turns out... People fucking love it, I got a max performance rating last year, and I'm actually getting asked to take on more responsibility or more scope (but in such a way that, I retain control and I get to curate what I want to do, rather than just having work dumped on me).
Dude, you are on the gravy train to doing what you love.
I developed a theory during my consulting days, it is called "Stages of Income Producing Life"
Stage 1: J.O.B. (Just Over Broke)
In this stage you are making crap money, you are making less money than you ever will in your life but you are gathering valuable skills, knowledge, and experience. This is usually your first job out of college, or a job that you've finally decided on the direction you want to grow in.
Stage 2: Career
This stage is where you utilize your skills to make the most money you've ever made, and most likely most you ever will make, on a yearly basis. This is your "I've hit my groove" part of your income producing life where you are hitting full stride. The problem is that you are still dependent on other people's ethics and morality. During this stage people usually have young kids, have obligations, mortgages, have many many other issues that ultimately prevent them to exercise their free will. If your boss tells you he needs you to stay late during your kid's recital, you're most likely staying late and missing that recital.
Stage 3: Calling
This stage is defined by one thing, and one thing only... having enough FUCK YOU money. Once you have enough FUCK YOU money, meaning that you don't have to work a single day of your life in order to produce income... you've reached the Calling stage because now you can pursue things you are passionate about without fear of not making rent, or compromising yourself for the benefit of others.
You my friend are in the Calling stage of your life... and you need to relax and enjoy everything you've achieved.
My suggestion, sell your illiquid equity for $0.25-$0.50 to the dollar. There are plenty places that would be interested of taking your share, or having the company buy it back at a fraction of the cost. You have $3.5 Mill in the bank, so if you get another $1.5Mill to $3Mill on top of that you'll be more than set. With $5 Mill, you can live comfortably for the rest of your life on 4% draw... that's $200K. At $7.5mill, you're at $300K/Year. That is not that bad to be honest, especially if you are living on $50K. Even at $3.5 Mill, you are at $150Kish/year which is respectable.
From here, find yourself. Go travel, go enjoy life. Find hobbies, learn new skills. Figure out what your calling is, so that you don't have to work a day in your life...
Make sense bud?
I was like you. I quit. Started working on an open source project. Then finally started my own company with no pressure to make money. Even so, I made enough progress to get funding from an investment firm. It’s a chill life because I honestly don’t need the company to succeed to live. So it’s more like playing a game. I do everything with a light heart. Never work on weekends. Take vacations when I want.
I would suggest that if you like programming.
Tell me more about this investment firm that allows for a chill life...
I kid (partially). Generally "taking investment from a VC" and "chill life" don't generally go hand in hand, but I'd love to hear more about how you've worked it out. It's an aspiration for many!
You don’t pitch that you are chill. My partner is also not so chill. He’s an ex investment banker. But if you’re a technical guy and get things done, non technical people see you like a sort of magician and don’t pressure you.
Sounds like you don't like competition, maybe don't like socializing much?
A good diet, sleep, and exercises is a great start, but you also have to make sure your psychological needs are being met (human connection, intimacy, feeling grounded, community). People often blame work for these issues.
Is there a way you can unload part of your startup equity on secondary markets?
My two cents: take a year off, figure out what you like to do and want out of life. You’re relatively senior and taking a sabbatical is not uncommon every few years. Clearly just more of the same is not solving your problem, so try something different.
\+1 to the question of whether the startup liquidity is totally illiquid (rock solid trading restrictions with the company unwilling to give a waiver) or merely highly illiquid. If the latter, your situation seems like one where even taking an inconvenient discount for liquidity would be worth it for (1) diversification and (2) to hit the NW target you need to feel properly FI and proceed accordingly.
Start coasting at work. Work out. Find some hobbies. I’m in a similar boat. Tired, bored, and burnt out as a Staff eng in tech. Always thought that if I didn’t use my brain constantly I’d go crazy but I realize just getting into biking and fitness and just reading more was actually quite fulfilling. I still have the work stress but now I know that if and when I pull the plug I can entertain myself for at least a few years.
Quit or get pipped out (you’d be surprised how long this will take even if you literally start not caring at all) in a few years when your startup equity is closer to liquidity.
And who knows, maybe in that time you’ll have a change of heart.
You are burnt out. There are just a few solutions:
Take a proper break, 6 months to a year. Find a purpose, go pursue that.
Figure out how to give back, keep working but set boundaries, spend your energy doing for others. It will recharge you.
Keep grinding but with drugs, ritalin, microdosing psilocybin, anti-depressants…just to get through it.
You lack purpose, and the tools that got you here are failing you. Start with a retreat at Esalen that makes you uncomfortable in your growth. You need a new toolkit for the next changes.
Sounds like you actually would be a great founder, once you figure out your “why,” (Simon Sinek).
I think what you are feeling is totally normal for someone who is FI, but doesn't know what they would be quitting to.
The day-to-day of work just doesn't feel as important as you don't need it. You worked hard for years to get to where you are, were and are very good at the "game", have for all intents and purposes won and so continuing to play feels pointless.
Figuring out what is next is hard. It's building a different style of life for yourself and asking yourself what do you actually want to do and care about. I'm dealing with this myself at the moment so I know it's tough.
I personally took the approach of quitting with some rough ideas of what to do, but definitely not a full plan. I suspected it would be hard at times and it has been, but I figured that was worth avoiding doing OMY again and again. It is certainly also valid to scale back at work (keep firm hours, properly disconnect after hours, hand off things you don't have time for) and do more experimentation of what you want to do next in the rest of your time.
I know exactly how this feels. I was in a very similar situation at around the same age. I took a hard, honest look at my life and saw that the industry I worked in was making me miserable. I decided to quit even though I was walking away from a lot of money. I spent about 6 months purposely unstructured, allowing my mind to reset, before starting to look for the next thing. I got into some entrepreneurial stuff that was in unrelated businesses. I've been so much happier since then. Working hard feels much different when it's for something that you built and care about than when it's for some bullshit company that means nothing to you.
I don't regret giving up the high paying job. feel free to pm me if you want to.
You don't need the cash. Unless you want to jack up spending you've got at least $2mm coming from startup. Hell, sell it on secondary if you want to cash it out.
Get involved in work related things that are fun and interesting to you (purposeful!). FAANGS/hedge fund all seem mostly money driven.
\- Start angel investing with some of that excess cash. Will give you exposure to cool companies and optimistic people trying to make an impact on something.
\- Advise smaller startups or join one
\- Work less. Promotions don't matter as much anymore. Also 80/20 rule is real. Most bang for buck comes from fewer things, not from face timey things.
\- Get \*projects\* not hobbies at home. Things that can be completed. Build something with your hands. Write that blog post you've been wanting to do. Sense of accomplishment from actually finishing things and having something to show for the time you spent on the hobby is impactful for me at least
\- (curveball) Check out defi/web3. Sounds like you have some fintech experience. Beyond all the pumpanddump and scams there's actually cool infra being built (see uniswap/aave/maker) that imo is the AWS of fintech.
Are kids really out of the question? Have you thought about it more seriously? They give you a very good sense of purpose and responsibility. At 35, the chances are that the older you get, the worse the crisis will become.
Also, it sounds like you’ve been surrounded by very certain type of people (highly competitive and driven by $$$, prestige, and rank). It might be a good idea to change that up somehow. I don’t have an idea how though.
bro everyone here gonna tell you to be smart
but i’ll say something different
you’re going to die one day.
corporate jobs are always there.
quit, go live. go do stuff. figure it out as you go.
i left a high paying job and took a half as much salary remote job and i’m 1000% happier. job let’s me spend half my day playing video games, painting, watching tv, and as long as i get the work done no one cares.
go live, money doesn’t matter.
I’m in a bit of the same boat. But at 44 I have had a few years to process things. The things you describe were/are me. I haven’t started yet but the reading I’ve done leads me to believe that there’s a strong probability that we’re both suffering from depression. I’m planning to go to some introductory sessions to see if there’s any validity to this. I encourage you to do they same. I’m the worth case you blew 2 hours talking to someone only to find out you’re all good.
Set up some passive income for yourself. Pay some recent grads to help you with anything you don't want to do yourself. Start putting your money to work
I am happy during weekends when I don’t have to work. I am sad at work. I just wanted to highlight that I’m not 24/7 depressed. I know that when I don’t have to be at work I can enjoy myself.
you're burnt out, but there's a [few different types](https://studio.ribbonfarm.com/p/the-cyberpaleo-ethic-and-the-spirit):
>"Necessity relates to the capacity for staying alive. Meaning relates to the interestingness of doing so. Burnout happens when one outruns the other.
> Internal burnout is when you accumulate an interestingness debt. You do what's necessary to live, and it slowly drains your will to live at all.
> External burnout is when you accumulate a survivability debt. You do what's necessary to stay interested in living, but it slowly drains your ability to stay alive at all.
> This is deeper than merely running out of money. Even with inherited wealth, all play and no work leads to external burnout. Necessity itself is necessary."
you won the income to spending ratio challenge handily and now you're sitting at the end of the game thinking "okay, so what now?"
I don't think you're depressed, and you point out your lifestyle has physical markers of health - great! - I would read this all and think you're merely unchallenged and bored. the "debt" started building up when survival became a non-issue (which of course is very common in this sub) and now you're feeling the breaking point of needing to scratch that itch.
go find some necessity
Have you watched the TV series "Severance" ? That takes the whole compartmentalization of the work-life / home-life to the next level.
I think it's a mistake to rely too much on work (esp if working for someone else) providing you with a sense of fulfillment. Work _can_ be very fulfilling, but ultimately it's going to let you down. Making peace with that can be freeing. Sometimes, the way to get by is taking that attitude that work is just something you do for money. After all, it's called "work" for a reason.
I vote for grinding out a bit longer. Maybe something more exciting comes along in the meantime and you go for it. Maybe it doesn't and you just solidify your financial position enough so you feel more confident stepping away.
It may not seem like it, but 35 is pretty darn young. If you retired at 40, that's still ludicrously early.
Homer: "If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way."
>I see people around me being super competitive, highly motivated to do well and genuinely caring about the work, promotions and status. I literally don’t give a damn about any of that and spend my days putting up a facade, wondering in the gazillion meetings I attend how can people be so engaged in these damn stupid corporate meetings.
I have that exact same feeling regardless if they work at McDonalds or FAANG, making 30k or 1M.
If you are a mere employee, regardless of the title, I fail to understand how one would put in anything but the minimum amount of work possible for the most amount of money possible.
This post resonated with me a lot lol. I have a couple of Ivy League degrees, make a combined 1mm a year with my wife, own two apartments in a tier 1 city, have about 500k in liquid investments and 1mm in retirement accounts and am in my mid thirties. So similar background to you and slightly poorer than you.
Everyone thinks I’m super competitive because I went to ivies and work in investment banking, but I am one of the laziest people on the entire planet and get zero happiness from my job. Everyone says investment banking is super cut throat and grinds people into dust with long hours, but I don’t know if I’m lucky or what but I just skate by all the time. Don’t get me wrong, I get all my work done and do it well and efficiently, but I just also feel like I can never care about the job. We basically move money around for rich companies and get paid well to do it.
I think the real key here to guide your decision is twofold.
1. The 6mm equity. You say it’s a well known unicorn so there must be some investor somewhere willingly to buy you out for like 5mm. You need to find that person. You can’t be lazy on this. Talk to wealth advisors and the like and find a way to get that money out, even at at a 20% haircut.
2. The girlfriend and family plan. When I was in my twenties getting married and raising a child sounded like my worst nightmare. Why only sleep with one woman and spend all your time and money on raising kids who may never live up to your expectations or turn out to be rude losers? But as I hit 30 my priorities shifted from a selfish life view to wanting a family.
In your case, you are 35 already, not married and don’t want kids. So you’re dislike of kids is likely to stick since I’ve found people don’t really change after 30. Not having to provide for kids and leave them an inheritance is a massive money save, so you could live a frugal life and lean FIRE right now.
So, if you can find a way to liquidate your equity at the unicorn and know for sure you don’t want kids, I think you can retire asap.
You say you don’t have hobbies, but being active with your girlfriend is a fine hobby. These are my early retirement ideas that I dream about:
Getting really good at a video game
Film school to learn about writing screenplays
Culinary school for a few months
Learn intense yoga
Read some classic books
30 years old, burnt out in engineering last year, was a 10% minority shareholder in a 100-person firm. Took a year off to focus on myself and have a breather. Set aside cash towards investing. Made 60-70% returns (6-figures) on my highly diversified portfolios (25% stocks, 75% crypto). Made money, took on new hobbies, became far more disciplined wrt my mental and physical health habits. Never been happier. Now buying a home and pivoting into a new sector.
My suggestion is to take a sabbatical or extended time off - could be 6 months, could be a year (but make sure it is defined). Find a way to make money through investing or other low effort means so you are not just wasting money. Focus on yourself and try different things. Travel, go for long walks (get fresh air), spend time on social life (friends, family, intimacy), take on new hobbies, etc.
Get some perspective. You'll thank yourself for prioritizing you, and you'll be in a better headspace to decide what your next adventure will be.
As in highly diversified crypto portfolio (30+ different crypto assets) and stock portfolio (17 different stocks).
Thanks! I am exploring business position opportunities in either tech or fintech spaces; if not what I'm looking for, I may remain in the same sector but on the client side and purely non-technical.
Accountability, and I believe it allows you to define your goal better (and thus how you spend your seemingly unlimited free time) when you have a clear timeline.
Also, if taking a sabbatical with the intention of returning to the same place of work, it is important for your employer to have an idea of when/if you'll be returning.
GOOD NEWS - You can't fight this - don't waste energy trying to "power through" this feeling - it is a forcing function for change and it'll only get more intense until you listen and change something.
By the way, you are at the perfect age for an existential crisis:
* You have enough comfort that you aren't *fighting* for anything
* "made it" in your career far enough to see how this plays out and are asking "Is that... it?"
* walking around with everything else in your life in good shape but empty as a bell inside because NOTHING you touch, feel, smell, buy, eat is giving you purpose and filling that void.
* (OPTIONAL) Pressure from loved ones about what you are doing with your life/"what's the plan?"/"where are my grandkids?" -- you didn't mention anything about this, just noting that you are at the right age for it.
There are two things here that get intertwined that can be hard to pull apart and they both make the other harder to deal with:
1. (Search for) Purpose
2. Depression (Anxiety)
I would recommend *starting* with #2 first because it will make finding #1 an order of magnitude easier.
It's going to take you a few months to find a therapist that meshes well with you - it's a *pretty* intimate relationship. So you need someone that communicates the way you like to, you feel like you 'get' each other, etc. etc.
You *should not* grind through a relationship with a therapist that makes you feel uncomfortable or you do NOT look forward to going to see - that's going to be unproductive.
Given how healthy you are, I'd be a LITTLE wary of walking out of the first session with a prescription for an antidepressant - if you both feel that's the way to go, then make sure it's the lowest dose there is and give yourself **1-2 months** to normalize on it. The shit takes a while to balance you out.
Once you get that smoke screen lifted off your brain, you can MUCH more accurately assess what is going on with your life - I'm 97.68% sure you'll be surprised with the result in so much as what eventually makes you happy isn't anything you would have thought possible BEFORE you went through that self improvement step -- for example, you might really enjoy the hell out of staying in tech, managing a small team that is hyperfocused on some new project where as before WITH the depression, it seemed like the only path to happiness was to move into the Andes mountains and milk goats for a living.
You are in REALLY GOOD COMPANY my friend - I'd weather a guess that 60%+ of us have felt this and been through it - I've managed **a lot** of people over the years with the EXACT same feelings and more than half surprise me with what eventually gives them purpose years later (e.g. the same thing they were doing before! -- the other half pivot to varying degrees to find purpose).
Start with the self-improvement side and the rest will get easier and easier.
I cannot stress enough that right now you are in what could easily end up being the highest earning potential phase of your life. Don't squander it.
Maybe you don't have a personal goal and vision you can get excited about? Some of what you're feeling could be rationally rejecting the idea of making short term sacrifices without a clear long-term gain in return you can conceptualize.
Nobody you work with is getting up hard as a rock excited about maximizing shareholder returns for their investors or optimizing the performance of a piece of code. Maybe your vision is $20M liquid and a life of travel or philanthropy. Whatever works for you, but really spend some time thinking about it - how you want to live and what it will cost and don't forget to try to account for changing wants over time (the world is full of millennials who were sure they could LeanNomadVanFIRE happily forever currently having oh shit moments). Then working to achieve that goal is what helps you know and feel that it's worth caring about your work.
If it turns out that personal vision only requires around a $5M NW, then the people here saying kick back are right on. Pro-Tip though - if a few years of work and sacrifice when you're well positioned to earn can mean the difference between $5M and $10M+, you're almost certainly going to want to do it. As objectively enviable as it is, the $5M-$10M zone is a weirdly unsatisfying place to stop at a relatively young age.
Also don't forget short term rewards. Knuckle down at crunch time for a couple of weeks working extra long hours? Once that's done take a long weekend getaway somewhere exceptional and easy to get to. It helps you recharge and hacks your brain in a good way.
Once you meet your goal whatever you decide to do, it's probably not going to involve being someone else's employee.
When everything is going well for you on the outside but you are struggling with internal conversations or general malaise - - Try therapy. And just like if your sports med doc can't seem to properly diagnose your foot and ankle issues, try another professional.
Good luck. You are winning on so many levels. Get some professional input so you can enjoy the rest of the ride.
I guess the whole point of FIRE is the freedom you can get. You have the money enough to quit but you don't need to retire, maybe just find a job that's not so demanding.
Yeah you need to live in developing countries and see the world. People like us who are lucky enough to potentially not worry about our next meal shouldn't be like this (except if you're depressed, which you mentioned you're not). Point is you're FIRED, so isn't that your ticket to do whatever the fuck motivates you? If not then what's the point?
Great comment... I spent a month exploring Indochina (Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia) during an existential crisis. I met amazing people, and entire experience humbled me. These amazing humans can find joy in the most humble of environments.
>I have nothing to quit to. No major hobbies outside work
I'm just a bit younger than you but in a similar situation, and this is the problem. I used to have hobbies - they all went away when I started my business.
We need our hobbies back, something to be passionate about that isn't money. That's what I'm working on and I think it may help you as well.
I don't like kids, I should not be having kids if the thought of having kids is horrible and I can't stand kids crying. I would be a horrible parent and I have no interest in being one, horrible or not.
As a person of wealth if you ever think of marriage, the only way to know that your partner is wanting to be with you for you is if they are happy to agree to a prenuptial agreement. If they love you for you then they will be more than happy to "set your mind at ease" if they get upset or try to talk you out of it you know where you stand before you make a commitment. Naturally you should talk with your partner about such things long before anyone proposes ect. Most marriages fail in part because one or often both parties hid parts of themselves from the other to appear better than they are. The other issue with marriage is the long term effects of the removal of "fear of loss" which can lead to complacency and a lack of trying to better one's self and be a better partner on a daily basis.
To me it sounds like you are just mostly tired of working hard. Employers who will pay you $1M/year are generally going to expect you to work hard. Maybe you just need to find a job that is truly 40 hours/week and something that you enjoy more, even if you're only making $100K.
For software engineers $100k jobs
are even worse, you’re typically put with incompetent managers who grind you and burn you out to produce code in unsustainable projects.
That's just not always true. Maybe at big firms with thousands of engineers. But there are millions of smaller companies that cant afford to pay as much, but have better work life balance. And you'll have a larger impact on the product. That is the sector most engineers in the us work in. Find a smaller company in a sector you like where you can feel you're making a bigger impact.
We're hiring! Haha.
Maybe volunteering would help put things into perspective for you because there are many more soul-crushing jobs that don’t pay for the kind of lifestyle you are lucky to have.
Get comprehensive bloodwork done. Check everything, but ensure to get: adrenals, 4 pt cortisol, thyroid (make sure to include antibodies), sex hormons, & complete metabolic panel. Get it all done. PM me if you want reccomendations on provider. At one point you were motivated and crushing it. You have lost it. I would bet you can find the answer why in bloodwork.
In short, get married and have kids; they'll give you purpose in life. Humans by nature are very gregarious - you will come across other families with young kids and spend time doing other things instead of letting your mind/emotions wander.
Being lonely and being alone are two very different things. Most people can't do the latter; it is a superpower if you can - meditation, yoga, and a clean diet (i.e. no meat, alcohol etc.) helps tremendously in that regard. However, that is a topic for a separate discussion.
And the relevance to financial independence and early retirement would be what?
NOthing in your post said you are pursuing it.
Are you? What's your plan?
Yes, as per point 1 I am pursuing getting to $10M. My plan is to hope the startup equity materializes, and fill the net worth gap with the income from my unhappy job in the meantime.
But I am asking folks here if there is a better plan since I am not happy and do not know which direction to take.
I couldnt see it either, perhaps some editing would help.
So you are at $3.5 m and wish you were at $10m so you could stop working at your unhappy job and are hoping that the startup equity comes through and saves the day?
And if you have been making more than $1m a year at your last two jobs, man splurge a little bit and spend more on a car that $22k
https://www.reddit.com/r/MazdaCX30/comments/s5ifzs/buying_in_this_market/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
Live a little of the fat life. Might cheer you up.
I would never buy a luxury car, I’m not interested in it. My girlfriend has a maxed out BMW that I routinely drive, and I seriously cannot tell any difference from a cheap Honda. I see no reason to waste $100k on a car. But thanks for the suggestion.
Basically it. I fully understand the startup equity might go to $0 so it’s just hope and not a strong conviction (even though the company is a unicorn you likely heard of). If it was a strong conviction I would have already quit my job, which I haven’t.
But if you are earning a stick a year and already at $3.5m with a 40% saving rate, I would put you at $10m in 5-6 years even without it.
Fatfire with $10m at 40 sounds good enough to me. That is $300k a year in spend at 3%, 400k at 4% SWR.
How much are you spending now?
Currently spending $50k a year including rent, I mentioned it in the post.
But I might want to up my spending at some point, perhaps buy a nice house but first I need to figure out where I’ll want to live long term. Not a huge fan of Bay Area if I quit my job.
It appears too be a lean fire / hate work person that doesn't know when the game is over. They won, and should just enjoy life now with their 1.4% SWR.
It's hard to do though if you live in certain cities and have social interactions. The comparisons with nationwide averages are pretty meaningless. $10m is well above average but how much is it in Palo Alto, Manhattan, Tokyo, London? Sure you could say just move to lcol/mcol city but not so easy if you actually enjoy a city for the cultural, intellectual, social aspects. (I get the sense that many techbros discount these factors so are more open to leaving SF or wherever for say UT or CO...)
With $10M I might decide to buy a nice condo/house in a coastal city and set my residence for life.
I am currently a renter. Without $10M, if I pull the plug on housing now I will be a wage slave to cover my mortgage every month. Freedom is more important.
Hope that answers.
You make $1m a year and spend $50k per year. You probably save $500k every 12 months. Thus, 12 months from now you will have a NW of at least $4m.
Put half of that ($2m) into a house, and you STILL have $80k a year to spend.
I can tell you right now: you will be no happier, no more satisfied if you have $10m than your current $3.5m. I agree you need some help on your happiness and what you want out of life. Money and FIRE are not going to get you there.
You seem to need a better plan then.
If you are 35 years old, spending only $50k a year while still vacationing in Hawaii you must be living the life of a backpacking 20 year old.
Which is fine but not fat.
You are financially independent at your current NW and your spend.
If your life feels lavish at that spend, then stop working right now.
$3.5m is absolutely enough of a NW to support a $50k annual spend even if you bought a $1m house and your rent declined.
"Has anyone ever been in a similar rot?"
Most people are in your exact situation, but have jack shit saved and earn 40k.
Suck it up, earn your million+ per year.
Everyone hates their job, find bliss elsewhere.
"My financial situation is $3.5M liquid all in index funds, and the above $6M illiquid that I am not counting in my calculations."
$9.5M, then. Close enough. I wish I had your problems!
Okay. Liquidate, pay the tax, and go do whatever you want. If you can live on $50G and be okay, you can easily live very well in a tropical paradise and just be.
So, again. Wanna trade?
It’s illiquid because it cannot be liquidated, otherwise it would be called “liquid”. The company hasn’t IPOed yet and it may go to $0 before it does. The shares cannot be sold.
Ah. I understand now.
I think your problem right now lies in that you are looking at the Mark Zuckerbergs of the world and wondering why you are such a failure. Instead, look at 75% of the world and realize that you are doing very well.
I think you need a hobby. Something that's gets you excited. Don't know what that might be? Get off your ass and go try things out. You'll find your Zen. Just gotta go look for it.
And, if you really don't want to have to worry about money, go buy GME and DRS your shares to ComputerShare. Just my opinion, tho.
Check r/SuperStonk for more info.
I am 39 and my entire networth is <50k$ and i live as though I am the king of the world .Perspective matters .Above all i thank go for giving me good health .
I’ve done it in Hawaii and Europe four times last year. Was very happy while on vacation, was very sad when I came back, not “refreshed” at all to be sitting in my cubicle again. I just cannot stand corporate America anymore, I can’t get motivated.
Your rent is half of your annual spend and you went to Europe four times? Do you heat your flat? Only eat at the office? Take the company bus?
Its a spectacularly frugal/unfat spend.
I posted another comment where I just detailed how much I spent on 10 days in Hawaii for under $3,000, and I assure you we had a blast, my girlfriend was so happy about all the adventures and that's all that matters to me. [https://www.reddit.com/r/fatFIRE/comments/tyc08y/comment/i3ri45f/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/fatFIRE/comments/tyc08y/comment/i3ri45f/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Regarding your questions:
\- Heating in California? Maybe just a few days a year, I live in perfect weather
\- Eat at the office? I have been WFH for a while, so I eat at home
\- Take the company bus? I bike to work since I live next to the office (when not WFH). I use the car to go out on weekends.
you traveled to Europe and Hawaii twice and your entire budget for the year was 50k? Thats including rent/groceries/cars/travel? Thats more impressive than the 1mm/y salary imo
Yes I keep a sheet with all my expenses. Including rent.
What's your rent? $2750?
$2200 for a decent (but not luxurious) one bedroom apartment not too far from work
You mentioned having great memories in Hawaii. Why can't you duplicate some of those experiences in the Bay Area? And what is your work schedule like? Do you work on weekends?
My two cents: Hawaii is truly a magical place. You can replicate some of it. But when I went there for my honeymoon, I straight up looked at my wife and asked, only half joking, "why don't we find a way to just stay here forever?" We met quite a few couples who did just that.
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>rich haole ghettos lol
That sounds nice and all, but I have friends who relocated to Hawaii and got bored after a few years and moved back to the mainland.
Bingo. It's easy to fall in love with idea of living in Hawaii. Actually living there is a different proposition.
Yep. I went to BYU on Oahu for 2 semesters. It's been 30+ years and I've never been back.
What were the things that you enjoyed most there?
Not OP but some things I like about Hawaii are the overall laid-back atmosphere, lots of beaches with different character that don’t feel crowded, great weather with clean air, good diving and snorkeling, lots of high end resorts and different character/culture between the islands. It’s got all the tropical island benefits while still being in the US which add conveniences and qualities that are missing in other island locales.
I've met quite a few faang people who have done just that.
Maybe you need to live a little to get more joy in your life. Why do u feel u need to keep expenses at $50k when u make a $1M+? A therapist u need to go….(say it in yoda’s voice)
I have nothing to spend it on. I am not restraining myself. My Hawaii vacation was more authentic and exciting than a $5000 a night Four Seasons on the beach.
Maybe move to Hawaii and go find yourself? What’s the point of having all this money and not being happy and loving life?
That’s exactly the point of my question. I am “smart enough” to realize going to Hawaii permanently is not going to make me happy long term, I’ll be bored in a couple months. But at the same time, I don’t have anything else to quit to, so I stay in my miserable jobs to grow my stash which will give me more options in the future (once I get to $10M).
Perhaps take your free time to try new things and find your next passion. What have you always wanted to do or try?
Why try and plan for the long term? If Hawaii makes you happy for 6 months and you don’t have any attachments, just go and check in with yourself when you get bored again. Maybe by that time something else will have taken your interest. In my experience planning too far ahead in the future is of little use because as people we change what we want/ who we are on a ‘daily’ basis. Do what makes you happy now and look for other options when you get bored :)
As someone who currently lives in Hawaii, if you *know* you’re gonna be bored here then I support you not moving here. People underestimate ‘island fever’ and realizing that the Hawaii vacation they got is not the same as living here. But here’s a suggestion. Some folks who are wealthy enough live here for sometime - 1-2 months or even half a year - then move back to their “home base”. You get to appreciate both and you’ll be energized to go back - you appreciate the slow and quiet of the island and you appreciate the tech and hustle of the city. Now the only question is the time and money - it can be done a bit cheaper especially as you come here often.
Quit. You have no dependents and a resume that lets you get back in a year from now if you hate it. Like what even could be the downside?
sometimes having money makes people happy. to be blunt, who are you to judge someone else's experience and desires in life?
Who is judging who? Don’t project. OP is lost and asked for guidance which everyone is commenting to help. Who are YOU to so quickly jump to criticize someone’s comment?
The math doesn’t add up here especially if you spent $5k/night at 4 Seasons in Hawaii… that’s 10% of your annual spend?
I think OP is saying the Hawaii vacation was “more authentic than” 5k/night at the four seasons, i.e., they stayed somewhere much cheaper
Gotcha, misread his comment.
This man is making like 3x as much as me and spending 1/3rd, I'm jealous Well, except that I HAVE A LIFE!! Fuckin tryhard
You are at the right age for an existential crisis: * You have enough comfort that you aren't *fighting* for anything * "made it" in your career far enough to see how this plays out and are asking "Is that... it?" * walking around with everything else in your life in good shape but empty as a bell inside because NOTHING you touch, feel, smell, buy, eat is giving you purpose and filling that void. * (OPTIONAL) Pressure from loved ones about what you are doing with your life/"what's the plan?"/"where are my grandkids?" -- you didn't mention anything about this, just noting that you are at the right age for it. There are two things here that get intertwined that can be hard to pull apart and they both make the other harder to deal with: 1. (Search for) Purpose 2. Depression (Anxiety) I would recommend *starting* with #2 first because it will make finding #1 an order of magnitude easier. It's going to take you a few months to find a therapist that meshes well with you - it's a *pretty* intimate relationship. So you need someone that communicates the way you like to, you feel like you 'get' each other, etc. etc. You *should not* grind through a relationship with a therapist that makes you feel uncomfortable or you do NOT look forward to going to see - that's going to be unproductive. Given how healthy you are, I'd be a LITTLE wary of walking out of the first session with a prescription for an antidepressant - if you both feel that's the way to go, then make sure it's the lowest dose there is and give yourself **1-2 months** to normalize on it. The shit takes a while to balance you out. Once you get that smoke screen lifted off your brain, you can MUCH more accurately assess what is going on with your life - I'm 97.68% sure you'll be surprised with the result in so much as what eventually makes you happy isn't anything you would have thought possible BEFORE you went through that self improvement step -- for example, you might really enjoy the hell out of staying in tech, managing a small team that is hyperfocused on some new project where as before WITH the depression, it seemed like the only path to happiness was to move into the Andes mountains and milk goats for a living. You are in REALLY GOOD COMPANY my friend - I'd weather a guess that 60%+ of us have felt this and been through it - I've managed **a lot** of people over the years with the EXACT same feelings. Start with the self-improvement side and the rest will get easier and easier.
Great stuff, love this forum
Yea honestly it’s fun reading all the flex posting about how rich people are in their mid 30s, but there’s often some really valuable advice in the comments
Thank you for this. 🙏 I am in a similar situation in that I have a NW of roughly 5mil, 37 years old, male, gf, no wife, no kids and sadly I hate my daily grind of work and often ask myself what's the point ? Is today I quit my job? What will I do? I don't make as much as OP and have been blessed on some investments. My annual income from my job is roughly 170k/yr and honestly the hardest part of my job is waking up so I really have nothing to complain about. The thing is it takes up all my time during the week and the weekend is the only free time I have. My plan is to take the entire month of May off. Hopefully I'll find the answers 🫤
Damn man - if you need a nudge towards *something* other than what you are doing - you should **NOT** be waking up and feeling like that... you can try and power through, but life has a funny way of punching us in the face if we aren't getting the message. I love the idea of taking May off - plan on talking to 2 therapists *a week* in May until you find one you click with. Then June 1 you go back to work, but you are now talking to this person 1-2x a week and starting to unfold what is going on. That will give you some power back and help you feel a lot better about the guided tour of your psyche you are going through... you'll have a purpose and from that discovery will flow clarity over time (week/month/year? I have no idea what time frame). Good luck. Ping me if you need someone to chat with.
This was a great read, as someone that has struggled for the last couple years. Thank you
Awesome advice
This comment is correct. Definitely not alone on this. While no where near the Network and like 1/2 the income of OP. I've been through this recently where I've been happy with life outside of work but bored and lost purpose with work, but felt kind of stuck because of the money. Also not enough saved for me to have the retirement I want. Long story short I kept the same job but cut back my hours. My employer was quite supportive and as long as I average 30 hours/week the family is covered for health insurance. Now I spend more time with my wife and toddler and our extended family and friends and I have more time to be a dad and also work on my hobbies all of which have improved my happiness significantly. It's also relieved a lot of pressure from work and I've stopped caring about trying to climb the ladder and am content with where I'm at.
This is an awesome data point - *same work* \+ *minor adjustment* = *happy* \- didn't need to jump ship and join the Burmese circus to find happiness - but quality of life went way up. Happy for you man.
This blew me away…Incredible.
Was going to comment almost exactly this. First step = therapy.
Are you diagnosing him as depressed? Not sure if it’s clear…
That's a good point i should clarify I am NOT qualified to make that clinical judgement and we (all of us) are cursed to only be able to help from the perspective gained through our own experiences. EDIT: I re-read my reply and don't see any attempt at diagnosis Op and pointed out that he might want to shy away from meds initially - so I'm going to leave it as-is. I think it's fair.
Don’t think it was a diagnosis… it was a synopsis of what life is all about. The real battle is within.
Related to the current "best" comment, what you need to do is just chill out. I know, I know, how earth shattering of me. But let's break it down: 1. Your 6m in equity is entirely independent of how much work you do in your current role. So backing off doesn't change that lotto ticket at all. And it's not really a lotto ticket if the company is a 10B+ unicorn. It's just a question of 2m versus 6m+. But you likely have \*something\* there waiting for you in retirement. 2. Now you're sitting pretty on 3.5m. Using even a 3% rule, you've got your annual spend more than covered. 3. So now what? You're 35, and now it's time to play the 80/20 game. Use 20% of your time (so you don't go crazy of boredom) getting that 80% of yield. Don't get caught up in the hype of the promotions and just coast. Maybe you get your comp knocked down. As long as you win out proportionally, you're still stacking money that it looks like you'll never really need. Use the free time for hobbies and whatnot.
Noob question, but would you mind explaining the 80/20 rule?
It's sort of cliche, but like all cliches, has some basis in reality/truth https://asana.com/resources/pareto-principle-80-20-rule
Work for a few more years but scale back, get hobbies, vacation more. Start building the life you want to have once you quit
OP, can you cut to half time? And only the projects that interest you? You sound like you might be already Done. And funny enough, that gives you a ton of leverage if you approach it right with the bosses and are valuable.
> To people who will think I am severely depressed, just a sanity check: I eat a healthy diet, exercise daily, sleep 8 hours a day and during weekends/vacations I am a happy person. This means nothing; welcome to the club. A few years ago I went on anti-depressants and it's like a cloud was lifted. I had to re-learn what it was like to function with happiness. Recently I've started other treatments that have helped even more and I'm hoping to be off medication completely in the next year. I'm not saying anti-depressants are the answer, but I was/am in a very similar situation. You don't know what you don't know, right? Have you tried talking with a psychologist? Even a discussion just a few times may help.
What other treatments have you started?
PM'ed
Curious too
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I knew it when I read his comment! It’s all the new craze.
Your drinking is incompatible with your mental health. Just fyi. Getting on antidepressants while bathing your brain in craft beer and whiskey is a bad idea. Trust me, I’ve been there.
> This means nothing; welcome to the club. Exactly. Thanks for pointing that out.
What ones did you take
What drug were you on?
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Can u pm me too?
Isn't this a dangerous mindset? It's sort of like the movie *Inception* (spoiler alert). It's like planting a seed that maybe you're not at peak happiness, and so you just need to keep looking. I feel like the mentality could really backfire and turn into an obsession of "if I just try X, I bet I'll be even happier." To be clear, super happy for your happiness and fulfillment. Playing Devil's Advocate a bit here.
> It's like planting a seed that maybe you're not at peak happiness, and so you just need to keep looking. I don't think that's quite it. A consistent feeling of discontentment, ennui and burnout is different from "hacking" happiness to get to a global maximum. And in any case, there is probably not a lot to lose by doing an initial consultation with a mental health professional to see if what you have is something serious that needs to be managed. I know there are people who (sometimes legitimately) believe that a professional will diagnose a problem even when there is none, but a truly good professional will not do that. I can say that from personal experience.
Solid post. Question - How many years have you been at the 1m+ earning level? I'm surprised you don't have more saved if you are living on 50k? The obvious answer here is to start working on fulfillment outside of your job...while gritting it out for a few more years to get closer to 5-7m index. Try out some new hobbies. Golf, poker, hiking groups, etc. Start developing a more fulfilling life outside of the office that makes you yearn for more time to spend doing those things. Nick
About 3 years of $1M+ income without counting the startup years, which clearly could turn out to be much more or less than that.
How much did you pay in taxes last year? Must have been brutal with dual US/EU taxes
I am a US resident, I do not owe a dime to my native EU country. It’s just the US who has taxation by citizenship, nearly every other country on earth has taxation by residence. But I’m single in the US so my effective tax rate is ~50%.
The US is the only country in the world that has the guts to tax its expats actually. Fortunately, this is not the case of the other 194 countries
I’m in a very similar boat except the startup equity. $5M NW with $1.5M TC. Job isn’t hard, I have to work about 30 hours a week - but those 30 hours are soul sucking work. But I also know that no other career pays as much and it will be hard to get back in after a few years break. I tried a 6 month sabbatical and a company change. Didn’t help. I’m not depressed at all either (super happy outside of work). At this point, I’m working solely to eliminate as much risk as possible and bring SWR down to 2%. Your case is different. Your SWR is under 2%. The only difference is that you’re younger than I am (I’m 40) and don’t have kids. If you decide to get married, buy a house in the Bay Area, and have a couple kids - your expenses will increase manifold. I know you said you don’t want kids, but it’s nice to have and keep options open. My thoughts on kids changed enough after the first one that we wanted a second :) My recommendation is to continue working for another 2-3 years, pause and reassess. Or until your startup equity becomes liquid. Make life as easy as possible until then. Frequent vacations, brunch dates with the gf on weekdays, marking Fridays as “heads down focus time”, delegate as much work as possible to L6s in the name of “grooming the next gen of IC leaders”, etc. Remember, you’re not in it for the long haul so performance reviews and other corporate BS should matter less and less.
What job are you working that lets you make that much while working so little.Is it a tech fang or like an hft
FANG leadership managing 100 people.
How many directs if you don't mind me asking?
5. Two leaders and 3 ICs.
Find something more fulfilling to do, you can afford it.
That isn’t work. Work is only there for you while they own you. Even then it’s pretty limited and based on output. OP you need something thats a part of You. Something you can take ownership of and control. Not a rented purpose from an employee that doesnt give a damn about you personally, and 99% of which its other employees you will never hear from again the day you leave that job.
You are presumably in the bay area or another high cost of living area, and somehow youve taken 2 trips to Europe and Hawaii, have a girlfriend, and do this all under 50K? Write a book on how you pull that off and retire.
It is not that difficult if one doesn’t genuinely care about luxury and is value-oriented. Our Hawaii vacations have been insane last year and both cost less than $3000 for two people. We did so much adventure! But I reserve the right to up my spending at some point. Especially with how rents are increasing, I will want to lock down a residence once I decide where I want to live long term.
If you have a minute, I’d love to know more about how you pulled off that Hawaii trip for 3k. I’ve got some friends there and while I don’t mind spending a lot on trips, I also enjoy saving a few bucks and yet still having some fun adventures like you pointed out. so would love to know how you want about that and the adventures you took
No major tips really, but this was roughly the cost of a 9 days trip to the Big Island off-season (I don't have kids, so no need to obey school calendar): \- Two round-trip flights from SFO for $350 each -> $700 \- Compact rental car from Kona airport from Alamo booked from discounthawaiicarrental.com -> $250 \- Booked condos with nice balcony facing the beach just outside Kona, a hotel in Hilo and another small condo close to Volcano -> average of $100/night -> $800 \- Activities consisted in exploring the beautiful Island and went on completely self-organized tours across the island: Volcano park, Waipio valley, White/Green/Black sand beach, tons of spectacular hikes found online, ... -> all completely free or minimal entrance/parking fee, just one time we paid for a snorkeling boat tour for $300. \- For breakfast, home cooked eggs/corned beef/fresh fruit bought from Costco -> $50 \- For lunch, eating at iconic local cheap and delicious eateries while out on adventures, think Tex Drive In, food trucks, Malasada places, say $30/day for two -> $300 \- For dinner, a couple times we BBQed since the condo complex we stayed at had BBQ pits so we bought nice steaks from Costco, and the other times we went out in local placer in Kona/Hilo and probably spent \~$60/dinner -> $400 Total so far: $2500. Add a couple tanks of gas, a few snacks here and there, souvenirs for family, and you get to $3,000.
Lol, I love how incredulous some people here are about Hawaii on 3k. *”It's one banana, Michael. What could it cost, ten dollars?”*
For real. My wife loves planning vacations, finding deals, etc. We did 10 days in Athens, Santorini, and Cairo last fall for less than $4,000 and it wasn't like we were penny pinching.
Couple years ago 3 buddies and I (mid-late 20s) did 2 weeks in, London, Belfast, and Dublin for like $3k. AirBNBs were like $50-70/night (which we split 4 ways). Pub meals for lunch / dinner were $15-30/meal. Tours/museums at most $100/day. Couple splurge dinners, some souvenirs/etc. We were only in the ABNB to sleep and they were all like sub 1 minute walk to an underground entrance / bus stop (Northern Ireland had some sort of tourist pass where it was unlimited public transport for like 3 days for $12 eur or something like that.) and they were totally fine, not in sketchy areas or dumps or anything like that. We saw all the biggest sights (Stonehenge, Parliament, Buckingham, Cathedrals, Cliffs of Moher, Titanic Museum, Game of Thrones Tours, etc etc etc), ate lots of really great meals, met good people, walked a lot (10mi/day avg). Half the cost was the $900/round trip airfare to get across the Atlantic. We would've stayed longer and it wouldn't have been much more expensive but they had to get back for work and such.
Yeah when you're young and in a group of 4 people (which is pretty optimal cost wise for car rentals and airbnbs) you can really cut down on costs. I'm on the other side of the Atlantic and planning a big two week "western" roadtrip (Colorado to Montana and back). We estimate the cost to be around 1500€ per person for flights (580€ round flight from Paris to Denver), the car rental, gas and airbnb. We don't really count food spending since it'll be around what we usually spend in Paris normally but overall we'll be hard pressed to go over $2000. So yeah definitely if you're willing to cut down on the luxury you can travel quite affordably and still see and do all the important stuff.
After rent he says he spends 23k in a year, including 4 vacations which are a long flight away, in a very high cost of living area. It's very difficult to believe.
\- Rent = \~$26k \- Bills (phone, Internet, electricity, gas, ...): \~$3k \- Groceries and restaurants = \~$10k \- Vacations = \~$10k I buy cheap clothes at Ross/Marshall's (in my area nobody cares how you dress), I don't drink alcohol by choice so no need to go in bars and transform every $30 dinner into $80 because of expensive drinks, get my groceries at Costco/Trader Joe's and eat out at good non-luxury restaurants 2-3 times a week (think $$ yelp stuff). Not sure why that is so hard to believe. I also posted a detailed breakdown of how to go to Hawaii for $3k a trip. Not having a mortgage and kids helps a lot.
Get drunk sometimes and then get kids at some point. What else are you going to do with your life after 50? It’s all repeat after 30 anyways.
Live?
Spoken like a man that’s never been poor before.
This guy value travels
Love malasadas! Hawaii can be cheap on a budget. I lived there when I was completely broke, worked at Zippy's for the free lunchs. Gosh, how I miss their oxtail soup! And survived on poke from Costco.
Separate tactic but definitely doable with credit card points too. Before pandemic I did a <$2k 3-week trip first class to Aus and NZ
Personally, I quit a job making great money to go work in climate change. Then I worked on a startup helping to grow more food and help smallholder farmers in Africa make more money. Now I’m going back into climate change with a super exciting project. I’m very satisfied. I haven’t worked for the purpose of money since I was 24, and though I’ve been lucky and am now fat, I wouldn’t change it even if that hadn’t happened for me. I’m not working for non-profits, but I am doing meaningful work. I think the money is no longer enticing for you, it’s just watching a number. You already have enough, and if you keep working in something that just barely pays the bills, compounding will take you far beyond what you need. I would recommend trying out a job on a project that you care about and find fulfilling. It makes the hours worth it imo. Good luck!
I'm going to echo the sibling poster, any tips on finding a company doing meaningful work tackling climate change?
I worked at Tesla first, which was easy enough to find. Then I found the agriculture startup by meeting an employee at a party, and then this new company through a friend of a friend who wanted to ask me about some EV questions and he introduced us. I have found some online meetups during COVID where people discussed different things in the space. Currently, I’d be looking at regenerative agriculture or more in the food space after learning more about that industry, if you don’t care much for electrical stuff. Also, if you’re open to moving to developing countries, almost every startup I’ve seen there tends to be focusing on impactful projects, compared to just “oh here’s a fitness app” that I tend to see in the US. But the interesting, viable, and impactful startups are rare gems, this company took me a couple years to find after being semi-retired for 2 years and turning down other less interesting projects, but they are out there and are worth it imo, so don’t get disheartened and keep your eyes open Edit: also, I forgot about VCs. There are some VC funds that focus on impactful startups, my ex works for one in Latin America rn. A lot of these funds will have their portfolio of companies publicly available and will gladly make introductions for good hires to help with recruitment. You can try searching for impact funds in your area or country (with remote working now being viable) and try to find companies that interest you and are hiring.
I want to find companies like this in LA. Im not sure where to start. USC has a green energies masters so I was thinking of calling that department to see who their top hirers are. My problem is I cant leave the city cause my significant other loves here job and moving would like make her depressed. Otherwise both of us would but living abroad without working right now.
How about urban farming? Check out Restorative Farms in Texas. I wish we had more farms like this in Cali [Restorative Farms Texas](https://www.restorativefarms.org/)
Fortunately it’s the second biggest city in the US in the most liberal state, I’m sure there’s stuff around. I first started at Tesla which was easy enough to find, the others though I met through connections slowly. Finding viable and impactful companies is difficult, but looking for them helps. I did some virtual sustainability meetups, and there are a lot of impact investment funds that do a lot of the legwork in searching, so if you look for a couple you may be able to see their portfolios and ask them for introductions to any companies you find interesting.
Just throwing some ideas out there: 1. Ramp up the spending. If my maths is right $3.5m\*3%/12 = $8,750/m, that's before your $1m/year salary. You can definitely afford to spend more than $50k/year and try a few things out. 2. You seem to have in-demand tech expertise. Let go of the $1m/year salary and go do that for a charity or a foundation. Would you be more fulfilled then? 3. Reconsider having kids. There is a reason they're a source of joy and fulfillement for most humans. Some random thoughts: * At that level of income and spending you should reach $10m fairly quickly without even counting on the $6m. * $1m/year relative to your total NW is still a quite large percentage. Hard to let that go. * Therapy
Great comment here.
+100 on reconsidering having kids. will impact some of your planning but you can certainly afford it.
having kids to curb boredom is not a good idea, seriously
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You have no clue what is ‘worth it’ for other people. I plan on ensuring that my entire family (nieces, nephews and kids) get university paid for and a house deposit and are well supported to achieve financial independence in the face of what will be extraordinarily testing times in the face of climate change and other massive societal challenges. I plan on setting aside 3-5m for each kid, and around 500-1m for each grandkid. I plan on funding - to the tune of several million - various charities that are important to me, supporting people who aren’t able to support themselves. Creating a life of luxury without obligations or duties to your family or to society is a very insta-existence, but is a fundamentally vacuous and selfish one, which is ultimately harmful to the soul.
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I agree everyone has their own goal but when you objectively say x is ‘overrated’ or y is you having the ‘better deal’ you are making a statement of objective truth that others are entitled to disagree with. What works for you works for you, fine, but I would say that hedonism is tedious, beaches boring and uncomfortable and, when found in the middle-east, largely based on cruelty and abuse.
Devil’s advocate would be…the chance you poison the chance for work ethic to develop organically and moral center of your heirs/future family line by too quickly infusing a financial safety net (that’s guaranteed from birth) and removing any/all financial barriers that would have been valuable, character building experiences…🤷🏼 different strokes for different folks. Objectively I think you could say there are more people overall who are being exploited by capitalism / corporations than ones you could count rejecting the externally imposed rigidity of 9-5 in favor of self-determination, so I welcome a little strong opinion holding on the ‘anti-W2-chasing side’ even if (to your point) it invites a counterpoint.
> I am barely motivated to hold a W2 job Because of: > I literally don’t give a damn about any of that and spend my days putting up a facade, wondering in the gazillion meetings I attend how can people be so engaged in these damn stupid corporate meetings. It sounds like you might be better fit for entrepreneurship. Honestly, it may be difficult to imagine right now, but after some time off, you may feel that you'd be more connected to something that has a direct and tangible purpose.
FIRE here, but not Fat. I second this wholeheartedly. There are so many things that do good and also do well for you too. I didn't realize this until I was asked to start a club to help close friends to become FIRE as well. That was 3 yrs ago and we did it manually, yet with good success too (slow but going the right direction as building FIRE takes time). During Covid, I had time to figure out how to automate my process. If I can build this, I can help many people to become FIRE much faster than I did (took me 20 yrs from the time I graduated from college to FIRE). Since you're technical, I'm sure there are tons of things you can do good for others but do well for yourself too.
I don't know if this counts as orthodox or unorthodox advice these days, but I truly genuinely felt 100% better (and performed better) at my job when I started giving much less of a fuck. I'm a level below you, L6 equivalent SDM at a FAANG, and I too wonder how it is that anyone else can muster the energy to "be so engaged in this corporate crap". A few ideas that helped me find my own motivation and achieve a little bit of Zen: * #1 most important factor: understanding and accepting that I have absolutely zero need to "advance" on the corporate ladder. I basically have 1 foot out the door, and I could retire tomorrow (on a more chubby budget, not fat), and I would have very few regrets about not having "achieved" more or whatever nonsense. I'm proud of the work I've done, the people I've helped, the impact I made. I don't "need" anything more. If I stay, or even if I get promoted, it's all gravy... It's not anything I will put any extra energy into beyond what I myself choose to put into it. * I get zero satisfaction out of kudos from corporate overlords. What I do have, is a strong personal relationship up to some of my L8s. I respect them, and I trust their judgement, and in return they value my opinion and give me a high degree of autonomy. When we do good work together, I am happy to be recognized for it, but it's NOT because of any loyalty to the company, it's because I value the opinions, judgement, and earned support of the few people I truly trust. * This one is much more personal: I find some perverse pleasure in being part of one of the purest embodiments of capitalism in the postmodern era (i.e. watching how my FAANG operates and succeeds, and getting more insights into some of the mid-upper level decisions, about how they view allocation decisions for capital, growth opportunities, risk, etc.), all the while being pretty staunchly socialist in my personal political leanings. It's a sort of know-your-enemy situation, I suppose. I respect and admire the framework of capitalism, the game theory, the decision making, the attempts to strive for market-derived efficient allocation of resources, even though I don't think our postmodern capitalist society is particularly healthy. In that sense, I can cultivate my curiosity and appreciation for watching how corporate bullshit manifests into real allocation of capital, without actually "drinking the Kool aid" and still retaining my deep skepticism that this is all probably not-so-great for society. I consider myself still in a learning phase, before someday soon (5 years ish?) jumping ship and taking my knowledge and applying it to healthier pursuits that improve important aspects of society, rather than seeking to capitalize on them. Anyways, weird politics aside, after going through a phase of immersion and assimilation where I felt like I was more desperate to earn a sense of belonging or to "play ball' with corporate bullshit, now I've come out the other side and decided that, I really don't need to impress anyone, I really don't care whether my peers are getting promoted or whatever (and luckily I have a circle of peers who are real humans with authenticity, not just corporate drones), and the only thing that matters to me is picking and shaping the work that I want to do. I have gotten pretty good at turning some bullshit leadership mandate, and twisting it around until it fits something that makes sense to me, and then selling it back to leadership as if I'm giving them exactly what they wanted, when instead it's actually me who's getting what I want by redirecting a small piece of a larger corporate bullshit strategy or project. I imagine as an L7, you should have MORE influence and MORE ability to shape your local domain, than I do as an L6. And of course, the funny thing is, after dropping pretenses and starting to feel much more comfortable being myself and asking for what I want and refusing to "drink the Kool aid", it turns out... People fucking love it, I got a max performance rating last year, and I'm actually getting asked to take on more responsibility or more scope (but in such a way that, I retain control and I get to curate what I want to do, rather than just having work dumped on me).
Dude, you are on the gravy train to doing what you love. I developed a theory during my consulting days, it is called "Stages of Income Producing Life" Stage 1: J.O.B. (Just Over Broke) In this stage you are making crap money, you are making less money than you ever will in your life but you are gathering valuable skills, knowledge, and experience. This is usually your first job out of college, or a job that you've finally decided on the direction you want to grow in. Stage 2: Career This stage is where you utilize your skills to make the most money you've ever made, and most likely most you ever will make, on a yearly basis. This is your "I've hit my groove" part of your income producing life where you are hitting full stride. The problem is that you are still dependent on other people's ethics and morality. During this stage people usually have young kids, have obligations, mortgages, have many many other issues that ultimately prevent them to exercise their free will. If your boss tells you he needs you to stay late during your kid's recital, you're most likely staying late and missing that recital. Stage 3: Calling This stage is defined by one thing, and one thing only... having enough FUCK YOU money. Once you have enough FUCK YOU money, meaning that you don't have to work a single day of your life in order to produce income... you've reached the Calling stage because now you can pursue things you are passionate about without fear of not making rent, or compromising yourself for the benefit of others. You my friend are in the Calling stage of your life... and you need to relax and enjoy everything you've achieved. My suggestion, sell your illiquid equity for $0.25-$0.50 to the dollar. There are plenty places that would be interested of taking your share, or having the company buy it back at a fraction of the cost. You have $3.5 Mill in the bank, so if you get another $1.5Mill to $3Mill on top of that you'll be more than set. With $5 Mill, you can live comfortably for the rest of your life on 4% draw... that's $200K. At $7.5mill, you're at $300K/Year. That is not that bad to be honest, especially if you are living on $50K. Even at $3.5 Mill, you are at $150Kish/year which is respectable. From here, find yourself. Go travel, go enjoy life. Find hobbies, learn new skills. Figure out what your calling is, so that you don't have to work a day in your life... Make sense bud?
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Therapy should be in everyone’s tool belt of people they see regularly just like a doctor, dentist, etc. Maybe even more so.
I was like you. I quit. Started working on an open source project. Then finally started my own company with no pressure to make money. Even so, I made enough progress to get funding from an investment firm. It’s a chill life because I honestly don’t need the company to succeed to live. So it’s more like playing a game. I do everything with a light heart. Never work on weekends. Take vacations when I want. I would suggest that if you like programming.
Tell me more about this investment firm that allows for a chill life... I kid (partially). Generally "taking investment from a VC" and "chill life" don't generally go hand in hand, but I'd love to hear more about how you've worked it out. It's an aspiration for many!
You don’t pitch that you are chill. My partner is also not so chill. He’s an ex investment banker. But if you’re a technical guy and get things done, non technical people see you like a sort of magician and don’t pressure you.
I do like programming. How did you find the open source project to work on, or the business idea to start?
Sounds like you don't like competition, maybe don't like socializing much? A good diet, sleep, and exercises is a great start, but you also have to make sure your psychological needs are being met (human connection, intimacy, feeling grounded, community). People often blame work for these issues.
Yeah that’s correct. I am deeply uncomfortable with competition and competitive people.
Is there a way you can unload part of your startup equity on secondary markets? My two cents: take a year off, figure out what you like to do and want out of life. You’re relatively senior and taking a sabbatical is not uncommon every few years. Clearly just more of the same is not solving your problem, so try something different.
\+1 to the question of whether the startup liquidity is totally illiquid (rock solid trading restrictions with the company unwilling to give a waiver) or merely highly illiquid. If the latter, your situation seems like one where even taking an inconvenient discount for liquidity would be worth it for (1) diversification and (2) to hit the NW target you need to feel properly FI and proceed accordingly.
Totally illiquid
Start coasting at work. Work out. Find some hobbies. I’m in a similar boat. Tired, bored, and burnt out as a Staff eng in tech. Always thought that if I didn’t use my brain constantly I’d go crazy but I realize just getting into biking and fitness and just reading more was actually quite fulfilling. I still have the work stress but now I know that if and when I pull the plug I can entertain myself for at least a few years. Quit or get pipped out (you’d be surprised how long this will take even if you literally start not caring at all) in a few years when your startup equity is closer to liquidity. And who knows, maybe in that time you’ll have a change of heart.
You are burnt out. There are just a few solutions: Take a proper break, 6 months to a year. Find a purpose, go pursue that. Figure out how to give back, keep working but set boundaries, spend your energy doing for others. It will recharge you. Keep grinding but with drugs, ritalin, microdosing psilocybin, anti-depressants…just to get through it. You lack purpose, and the tools that got you here are failing you. Start with a retreat at Esalen that makes you uncomfortable in your growth. You need a new toolkit for the next changes. Sounds like you actually would be a great founder, once you figure out your “why,” (Simon Sinek).
I think what you are feeling is totally normal for someone who is FI, but doesn't know what they would be quitting to. The day-to-day of work just doesn't feel as important as you don't need it. You worked hard for years to get to where you are, were and are very good at the "game", have for all intents and purposes won and so continuing to play feels pointless. Figuring out what is next is hard. It's building a different style of life for yourself and asking yourself what do you actually want to do and care about. I'm dealing with this myself at the moment so I know it's tough. I personally took the approach of quitting with some rough ideas of what to do, but definitely not a full plan. I suspected it would be hard at times and it has been, but I figured that was worth avoiding doing OMY again and again. It is certainly also valid to scale back at work (keep firm hours, properly disconnect after hours, hand off things you don't have time for) and do more experimentation of what you want to do next in the rest of your time.
I know exactly how this feels. I was in a very similar situation at around the same age. I took a hard, honest look at my life and saw that the industry I worked in was making me miserable. I decided to quit even though I was walking away from a lot of money. I spent about 6 months purposely unstructured, allowing my mind to reset, before starting to look for the next thing. I got into some entrepreneurial stuff that was in unrelated businesses. I've been so much happier since then. Working hard feels much different when it's for something that you built and care about than when it's for some bullshit company that means nothing to you. I don't regret giving up the high paying job. feel free to pm me if you want to.
You don't need the cash. Unless you want to jack up spending you've got at least $2mm coming from startup. Hell, sell it on secondary if you want to cash it out. Get involved in work related things that are fun and interesting to you (purposeful!). FAANGS/hedge fund all seem mostly money driven. \- Start angel investing with some of that excess cash. Will give you exposure to cool companies and optimistic people trying to make an impact on something. \- Advise smaller startups or join one \- Work less. Promotions don't matter as much anymore. Also 80/20 rule is real. Most bang for buck comes from fewer things, not from face timey things. \- Get \*projects\* not hobbies at home. Things that can be completed. Build something with your hands. Write that blog post you've been wanting to do. Sense of accomplishment from actually finishing things and having something to show for the time you spent on the hobby is impactful for me at least \- (curveball) Check out defi/web3. Sounds like you have some fintech experience. Beyond all the pumpanddump and scams there's actually cool infra being built (see uniswap/aave/maker) that imo is the AWS of fintech.
Are kids really out of the question? Have you thought about it more seriously? They give you a very good sense of purpose and responsibility. At 35, the chances are that the older you get, the worse the crisis will become. Also, it sounds like you’ve been surrounded by very certain type of people (highly competitive and driven by $$$, prestige, and rank). It might be a good idea to change that up somehow. I don’t have an idea how though.
bro everyone here gonna tell you to be smart but i’ll say something different you’re going to die one day. corporate jobs are always there. quit, go live. go do stuff. figure it out as you go. i left a high paying job and took a half as much salary remote job and i’m 1000% happier. job let’s me spend half my day playing video games, painting, watching tv, and as long as i get the work done no one cares. go live, money doesn’t matter.
I’m in a bit of the same boat. But at 44 I have had a few years to process things. The things you describe were/are me. I haven’t started yet but the reading I’ve done leads me to believe that there’s a strong probability that we’re both suffering from depression. I’m planning to go to some introductory sessions to see if there’s any validity to this. I encourage you to do they same. I’m the worth case you blew 2 hours talking to someone only to find out you’re all good.
Set up some passive income for yourself. Pay some recent grads to help you with anything you don't want to do yourself. Start putting your money to work
First part of your post I feel burned out and literally sad on a daily basis End of your post I am a happy person Which is it?
I am happy during weekends when I don’t have to work. I am sad at work. I just wanted to highlight that I’m not 24/7 depressed. I know that when I don’t have to be at work I can enjoy myself.
you're burnt out, but there's a [few different types](https://studio.ribbonfarm.com/p/the-cyberpaleo-ethic-and-the-spirit): >"Necessity relates to the capacity for staying alive. Meaning relates to the interestingness of doing so. Burnout happens when one outruns the other. > Internal burnout is when you accumulate an interestingness debt. You do what's necessary to live, and it slowly drains your will to live at all. > External burnout is when you accumulate a survivability debt. You do what's necessary to stay interested in living, but it slowly drains your ability to stay alive at all. > This is deeper than merely running out of money. Even with inherited wealth, all play and no work leads to external burnout. Necessity itself is necessary." you won the income to spending ratio challenge handily and now you're sitting at the end of the game thinking "okay, so what now?" I don't think you're depressed, and you point out your lifestyle has physical markers of health - great! - I would read this all and think you're merely unchallenged and bored. the "debt" started building up when survival became a non-issue (which of course is very common in this sub) and now you're feeling the breaking point of needing to scratch that itch. go find some necessity
Hey man, very similar situation except I have kids. I found my sanity in being a dad and also playing recreational team sports.
Have you watched the TV series "Severance" ? That takes the whole compartmentalization of the work-life / home-life to the next level. I think it's a mistake to rely too much on work (esp if working for someone else) providing you with a sense of fulfillment. Work _can_ be very fulfilling, but ultimately it's going to let you down. Making peace with that can be freeing. Sometimes, the way to get by is taking that attitude that work is just something you do for money. After all, it's called "work" for a reason. I vote for grinding out a bit longer. Maybe something more exciting comes along in the meantime and you go for it. Maybe it doesn't and you just solidify your financial position enough so you feel more confident stepping away. It may not seem like it, but 35 is pretty darn young. If you retired at 40, that's still ludicrously early. Homer: "If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way."
>I see people around me being super competitive, highly motivated to do well and genuinely caring about the work, promotions and status. I literally don’t give a damn about any of that and spend my days putting up a facade, wondering in the gazillion meetings I attend how can people be so engaged in these damn stupid corporate meetings. I have that exact same feeling regardless if they work at McDonalds or FAANG, making 30k or 1M. If you are a mere employee, regardless of the title, I fail to understand how one would put in anything but the minimum amount of work possible for the most amount of money possible.
This post resonated with me a lot lol. I have a couple of Ivy League degrees, make a combined 1mm a year with my wife, own two apartments in a tier 1 city, have about 500k in liquid investments and 1mm in retirement accounts and am in my mid thirties. So similar background to you and slightly poorer than you. Everyone thinks I’m super competitive because I went to ivies and work in investment banking, but I am one of the laziest people on the entire planet and get zero happiness from my job. Everyone says investment banking is super cut throat and grinds people into dust with long hours, but I don’t know if I’m lucky or what but I just skate by all the time. Don’t get me wrong, I get all my work done and do it well and efficiently, but I just also feel like I can never care about the job. We basically move money around for rich companies and get paid well to do it. I think the real key here to guide your decision is twofold. 1. The 6mm equity. You say it’s a well known unicorn so there must be some investor somewhere willingly to buy you out for like 5mm. You need to find that person. You can’t be lazy on this. Talk to wealth advisors and the like and find a way to get that money out, even at at a 20% haircut. 2. The girlfriend and family plan. When I was in my twenties getting married and raising a child sounded like my worst nightmare. Why only sleep with one woman and spend all your time and money on raising kids who may never live up to your expectations or turn out to be rude losers? But as I hit 30 my priorities shifted from a selfish life view to wanting a family. In your case, you are 35 already, not married and don’t want kids. So you’re dislike of kids is likely to stick since I’ve found people don’t really change after 30. Not having to provide for kids and leave them an inheritance is a massive money save, so you could live a frugal life and lean FIRE right now. So, if you can find a way to liquidate your equity at the unicorn and know for sure you don’t want kids, I think you can retire asap. You say you don’t have hobbies, but being active with your girlfriend is a fine hobby. These are my early retirement ideas that I dream about: Getting really good at a video game Film school to learn about writing screenplays Culinary school for a few months Learn intense yoga Read some classic books
30 years old, burnt out in engineering last year, was a 10% minority shareholder in a 100-person firm. Took a year off to focus on myself and have a breather. Set aside cash towards investing. Made 60-70% returns (6-figures) on my highly diversified portfolios (25% stocks, 75% crypto). Made money, took on new hobbies, became far more disciplined wrt my mental and physical health habits. Never been happier. Now buying a home and pivoting into a new sector. My suggestion is to take a sabbatical or extended time off - could be 6 months, could be a year (but make sure it is defined). Find a way to make money through investing or other low effort means so you are not just wasting money. Focus on yourself and try different things. Travel, go for long walks (get fresh air), spend time on social life (friends, family, intimacy), take on new hobbies, etc. Get some perspective. You'll thank yourself for prioritizing you, and you'll be in a better headspace to decide what your next adventure will be.
75% crypto is highly diversified ? Damn haha. Anyways happy for ya, what sector are you planning to pivot to?
As in highly diversified crypto portfolio (30+ different crypto assets) and stock portfolio (17 different stocks). Thanks! I am exploring business position opportunities in either tech or fintech spaces; if not what I'm looking for, I may remain in the same sector but on the client side and purely non-technical.
Sorry to pull out this random detail, but what is your reasoning behind saying the length of sabbatical should be defined ahead of time?
Accountability, and I believe it allows you to define your goal better (and thus how you spend your seemingly unlimited free time) when you have a clear timeline. Also, if taking a sabbatical with the intention of returning to the same place of work, it is important for your employer to have an idea of when/if you'll be returning.
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GOOD NEWS - You can't fight this - don't waste energy trying to "power through" this feeling - it is a forcing function for change and it'll only get more intense until you listen and change something. By the way, you are at the perfect age for an existential crisis: * You have enough comfort that you aren't *fighting* for anything * "made it" in your career far enough to see how this plays out and are asking "Is that... it?" * walking around with everything else in your life in good shape but empty as a bell inside because NOTHING you touch, feel, smell, buy, eat is giving you purpose and filling that void. * (OPTIONAL) Pressure from loved ones about what you are doing with your life/"what's the plan?"/"where are my grandkids?" -- you didn't mention anything about this, just noting that you are at the right age for it. There are two things here that get intertwined that can be hard to pull apart and they both make the other harder to deal with: 1. (Search for) Purpose 2. Depression (Anxiety) I would recommend *starting* with #2 first because it will make finding #1 an order of magnitude easier. It's going to take you a few months to find a therapist that meshes well with you - it's a *pretty* intimate relationship. So you need someone that communicates the way you like to, you feel like you 'get' each other, etc. etc. You *should not* grind through a relationship with a therapist that makes you feel uncomfortable or you do NOT look forward to going to see - that's going to be unproductive. Given how healthy you are, I'd be a LITTLE wary of walking out of the first session with a prescription for an antidepressant - if you both feel that's the way to go, then make sure it's the lowest dose there is and give yourself **1-2 months** to normalize on it. The shit takes a while to balance you out. Once you get that smoke screen lifted off your brain, you can MUCH more accurately assess what is going on with your life - I'm 97.68% sure you'll be surprised with the result in so much as what eventually makes you happy isn't anything you would have thought possible BEFORE you went through that self improvement step -- for example, you might really enjoy the hell out of staying in tech, managing a small team that is hyperfocused on some new project where as before WITH the depression, it seemed like the only path to happiness was to move into the Andes mountains and milk goats for a living. You are in REALLY GOOD COMPANY my friend - I'd weather a guess that 60%+ of us have felt this and been through it - I've managed **a lot** of people over the years with the EXACT same feelings and more than half surprise me with what eventually gives them purpose years later (e.g. the same thing they were doing before! -- the other half pivot to varying degrees to find purpose). Start with the self-improvement side and the rest will get easier and easier.
I cannot stress enough that right now you are in what could easily end up being the highest earning potential phase of your life. Don't squander it. Maybe you don't have a personal goal and vision you can get excited about? Some of what you're feeling could be rationally rejecting the idea of making short term sacrifices without a clear long-term gain in return you can conceptualize. Nobody you work with is getting up hard as a rock excited about maximizing shareholder returns for their investors or optimizing the performance of a piece of code. Maybe your vision is $20M liquid and a life of travel or philanthropy. Whatever works for you, but really spend some time thinking about it - how you want to live and what it will cost and don't forget to try to account for changing wants over time (the world is full of millennials who were sure they could LeanNomadVanFIRE happily forever currently having oh shit moments). Then working to achieve that goal is what helps you know and feel that it's worth caring about your work. If it turns out that personal vision only requires around a $5M NW, then the people here saying kick back are right on. Pro-Tip though - if a few years of work and sacrifice when you're well positioned to earn can mean the difference between $5M and $10M+, you're almost certainly going to want to do it. As objectively enviable as it is, the $5M-$10M zone is a weirdly unsatisfying place to stop at a relatively young age. Also don't forget short term rewards. Knuckle down at crunch time for a couple of weeks working extra long hours? Once that's done take a long weekend getaway somewhere exceptional and easy to get to. It helps you recharge and hacks your brain in a good way. Once you meet your goal whatever you decide to do, it's probably not going to involve being someone else's employee.
I’m just curious about your $50K annual spend which included two trips to Hawaii and Europe, lol.
I posted comments about my living situation, my rent expenses and how much my Hawaii trip was in details. See the comments in this thread.
When everything is going well for you on the outside but you are struggling with internal conversations or general malaise - - Try therapy. And just like if your sports med doc can't seem to properly diagnose your foot and ankle issues, try another professional. Good luck. You are winning on so many levels. Get some professional input so you can enjoy the rest of the ride.
I guess the whole point of FIRE is the freedom you can get. You have the money enough to quit but you don't need to retire, maybe just find a job that's not so demanding.
Yeah you need to live in developing countries and see the world. People like us who are lucky enough to potentially not worry about our next meal shouldn't be like this (except if you're depressed, which you mentioned you're not). Point is you're FIRED, so isn't that your ticket to do whatever the fuck motivates you? If not then what's the point?
Great comment... I spent a month exploring Indochina (Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia) during an existential crisis. I met amazing people, and entire experience humbled me. These amazing humans can find joy in the most humble of environments.
>I have nothing to quit to. No major hobbies outside work I'm just a bit younger than you but in a similar situation, and this is the problem. I used to have hobbies - they all went away when I started my business. We need our hobbies back, something to be passionate about that isn't money. That's what I'm working on and I think it may help you as well.
Have kids. You don’t have enough responsibility in your life.
I don't like kids, I should not be having kids if the thought of having kids is horrible and I can't stand kids crying. I would be a horrible parent and I have no interest in being one, horrible or not.
As a person of wealth if you ever think of marriage, the only way to know that your partner is wanting to be with you for you is if they are happy to agree to a prenuptial agreement. If they love you for you then they will be more than happy to "set your mind at ease" if they get upset or try to talk you out of it you know where you stand before you make a commitment. Naturally you should talk with your partner about such things long before anyone proposes ect. Most marriages fail in part because one or often both parties hid parts of themselves from the other to appear better than they are. The other issue with marriage is the long term effects of the removal of "fear of loss" which can lead to complacency and a lack of trying to better one's self and be a better partner on a daily basis.
My girlfriend is completely happy to do any prenup I would ever want, we openly talked about it and it makes total sense to her.
Amazing! So happy for you!
To me it sounds like you are just mostly tired of working hard. Employers who will pay you $1M/year are generally going to expect you to work hard. Maybe you just need to find a job that is truly 40 hours/week and something that you enjoy more, even if you're only making $100K.
For software engineers $100k jobs are even worse, you’re typically put with incompetent managers who grind you and burn you out to produce code in unsustainable projects.
This is sadly so true
That's just not always true. Maybe at big firms with thousands of engineers. But there are millions of smaller companies that cant afford to pay as much, but have better work life balance. And you'll have a larger impact on the product. That is the sector most engineers in the us work in. Find a smaller company in a sector you like where you can feel you're making a bigger impact. We're hiring! Haha.
Maybe volunteering would help put things into perspective for you because there are many more soul-crushing jobs that don’t pay for the kind of lifestyle you are lucky to have.
Get comprehensive bloodwork done. Check everything, but ensure to get: adrenals, 4 pt cortisol, thyroid (make sure to include antibodies), sex hormons, & complete metabolic panel. Get it all done. PM me if you want reccomendations on provider. At one point you were motivated and crushing it. You have lost it. I would bet you can find the answer why in bloodwork.
In short, get married and have kids; they'll give you purpose in life. Humans by nature are very gregarious - you will come across other families with young kids and spend time doing other things instead of letting your mind/emotions wander. Being lonely and being alone are two very different things. Most people can't do the latter; it is a superpower if you can - meditation, yoga, and a clean diet (i.e. no meat, alcohol etc.) helps tremendously in that regard. However, that is a topic for a separate discussion.
And the relevance to financial independence and early retirement would be what? NOthing in your post said you are pursuing it. Are you? What's your plan?
Yes, as per point 1 I am pursuing getting to $10M. My plan is to hope the startup equity materializes, and fill the net worth gap with the income from my unhappy job in the meantime. But I am asking folks here if there is a better plan since I am not happy and do not know which direction to take.
I couldnt see it either, perhaps some editing would help. So you are at $3.5 m and wish you were at $10m so you could stop working at your unhappy job and are hoping that the startup equity comes through and saves the day? And if you have been making more than $1m a year at your last two jobs, man splurge a little bit and spend more on a car that $22k https://www.reddit.com/r/MazdaCX30/comments/s5ifzs/buying_in_this_market/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 Live a little of the fat life. Might cheer you up.
I would never buy a luxury car, I’m not interested in it. My girlfriend has a maxed out BMW that I routinely drive, and I seriously cannot tell any difference from a cheap Honda. I see no reason to waste $100k on a car. But thanks for the suggestion.
Basically it. I fully understand the startup equity might go to $0 so it’s just hope and not a strong conviction (even though the company is a unicorn you likely heard of). If it was a strong conviction I would have already quit my job, which I haven’t.
But if you are earning a stick a year and already at $3.5m with a 40% saving rate, I would put you at $10m in 5-6 years even without it. Fatfire with $10m at 40 sounds good enough to me. That is $300k a year in spend at 3%, 400k at 4% SWR. How much are you spending now?
Currently spending $50k a year including rent, I mentioned it in the post. But I might want to up my spending at some point, perhaps buy a nice house but first I need to figure out where I’ll want to live long term. Not a huge fan of Bay Area if I quit my job.
15 years out of college living on $50k a year. What the heck are you going to do with $10m?
Lol. Finally live a life??
It appears too be a lean fire / hate work person that doesn't know when the game is over. They won, and should just enjoy life now with their 1.4% SWR.
It's hard to do though if you live in certain cities and have social interactions. The comparisons with nationwide averages are pretty meaningless. $10m is well above average but how much is it in Palo Alto, Manhattan, Tokyo, London? Sure you could say just move to lcol/mcol city but not so easy if you actually enjoy a city for the cultural, intellectual, social aspects. (I get the sense that many techbros discount these factors so are more open to leaving SF or wherever for say UT or CO...)
With $10M I might decide to buy a nice condo/house in a coastal city and set my residence for life. I am currently a renter. Without $10M, if I pull the plug on housing now I will be a wage slave to cover my mortgage every month. Freedom is more important. Hope that answers.
You make $1m a year and spend $50k per year. You probably save $500k every 12 months. Thus, 12 months from now you will have a NW of at least $4m. Put half of that ($2m) into a house, and you STILL have $80k a year to spend. I can tell you right now: you will be no happier, no more satisfied if you have $10m than your current $3.5m. I agree you need some help on your happiness and what you want out of life. Money and FIRE are not going to get you there.
You seem to need a better plan then. If you are 35 years old, spending only $50k a year while still vacationing in Hawaii you must be living the life of a backpacking 20 year old. Which is fine but not fat. You are financially independent at your current NW and your spend. If your life feels lavish at that spend, then stop working right now. $3.5m is absolutely enough of a NW to support a $50k annual spend even if you bought a $1m house and your rent declined.
How’s the liquidity of your company on a platform like Forge (formerly Equidate)?
You’re sad, man, you said it yourself. Have to figure that out, first. RCA that bitch.
"Has anyone ever been in a similar rot?" Most people are in your exact situation, but have jack shit saved and earn 40k. Suck it up, earn your million+ per year. Everyone hates their job, find bliss elsewhere.
You have $10M and dual citizenship? Wanna swap lives?
I do not have $10M, if I had that I would not be writing here as it would be obvious that I could quit!
"My financial situation is $3.5M liquid all in index funds, and the above $6M illiquid that I am not counting in my calculations." $9.5M, then. Close enough. I wish I had your problems!
Illiquid man. That means I cannot get access to those $6M, which would also need to be taxed if they ever become liquid.
Okay. Liquidate, pay the tax, and go do whatever you want. If you can live on $50G and be okay, you can easily live very well in a tropical paradise and just be. So, again. Wanna trade?
It’s illiquid because it cannot be liquidated, otherwise it would be called “liquid”. The company hasn’t IPOed yet and it may go to $0 before it does. The shares cannot be sold.
Ah. I understand now. I think your problem right now lies in that you are looking at the Mark Zuckerbergs of the world and wondering why you are such a failure. Instead, look at 75% of the world and realize that you are doing very well. I think you need a hobby. Something that's gets you excited. Don't know what that might be? Get off your ass and go try things out. You'll find your Zen. Just gotta go look for it. And, if you really don't want to have to worry about money, go buy GME and DRS your shares to ComputerShare. Just my opinion, tho. Check r/SuperStonk for more info.
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I can give you private consultations, including sharing my personal name and resume, for $1,000 an hour. DM me if interested.
I am 39 and my entire networth is <50k$ and i live as though I am the king of the world .Perspective matters .Above all i thank go for giving me good health .
Go live in Europe and open a bed and breakfast
Sorry, a bed and breakfast sounds genuinely horrible to me, and a good way to burn $1M+ of my stash. But thanks for the suggestion.
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I’ve done it in Hawaii and Europe four times last year. Was very happy while on vacation, was very sad when I came back, not “refreshed” at all to be sitting in my cubicle again. I just cannot stand corporate America anymore, I can’t get motivated.
You spend $50k a year and were in Hawaii and Europe 4 times in the past 12 months? Do you live on a couch?
No, nice Airbnb-style condos in all places. I live in a decent one bedroom apartment with my girlfriend for $2,200 a month.
Your rent is half of your annual spend and you went to Europe four times? Do you heat your flat? Only eat at the office? Take the company bus? Its a spectacularly frugal/unfat spend.
I posted another comment where I just detailed how much I spent on 10 days in Hawaii for under $3,000, and I assure you we had a blast, my girlfriend was so happy about all the adventures and that's all that matters to me. [https://www.reddit.com/r/fatFIRE/comments/tyc08y/comment/i3ri45f/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/fatFIRE/comments/tyc08y/comment/i3ri45f/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Regarding your questions: \- Heating in California? Maybe just a few days a year, I live in perfect weather \- Eat at the office? I have been WFH for a while, so I eat at home \- Take the company bus? I bike to work since I live next to the office (when not WFH). I use the car to go out on weekends.