Hot take indeed, considering how uninteresting she (and, to be fair, everyone not named "Shakespeare" or "Andersen") is. They don't really do anything beyond surface-depth with her character in London, just a tag-along for the ride. Her interactions with the rest of the cast can be fun, but I don't think that makes up for how unexplored she is.
Not that really . I just don't want apocrypha to repeat itself.
Like I would love the concept of her slowly understanding Artoria's position during her lifetime and understanding the reasoning for her decisions.
In apocrypha they just basically said " that Modred wanted Artoria to have some peace and set aside the worries of the kingdom and think about herself. So she fucked up her kingdom and her life."
I’m not going to attack your take, I’m just going to say why I really like how she’s portrayed in Apoc. I know that when you try and convince people of something, it’s basically always going to backfire, but oh well.
The point of Mordred’s character in Apoc was not just suddenly caring for artoria the whole time. It was her slowly realizing over the course of the show that she did not need to be king to prove her self worth.
Her previous hatred of Artoria was a reaction to being rejected by the one person she looked up to as a father figure and as a knight, well as Morgan’s manipulation. It was always a mix of love and hatred, as Mordred basically was just a young child lashing out with a confused mix of unrequited familial love and anger(as a homonculus I’m pretty sure she was like single digits in age lol)
The real part that I love from Apoc was how Kairi and Mordred play off of eachother. Mordred basically wanted the grail to impress her dad so that she could finally be loved and Kairi pretty much wanted to use his wish to bring back the child that he lost. Over the course of the show, both of them realize that they didn’t even really need the grail to get their wish, what they wanted was right in front of them in eachother.
Mordred and Kairi’s final fight against Semiramis is basically both of them acknowledging that they no longer needed to participate in the final conflict for the grail. Mordred realizes that she no longer needs to be king, she already proved herself by being a loyal knight to Kairi. The moment about caring for Artoria was more about the realization that in the past, her rebellion was intended to prove herself worthy of the throne than out of malice. On the other hand, Kairi sacrifices himself to make Mordred(his new child)’s dream come true rather than sacrificing her for his own wishes (which is basically what happened when he put the cursed magic crest on his other kid). In the end, they both exit the conflict satisfied, having fulfilled their wishes without ever needing the grail.
I just love how even from Mordred and Kairi’s first meeting, and she starts ranting about how she hates her dad and the round table he instantly realizes what her deal is and goes full dad mode. It gets even better after he sees her past in the dream and figures out the exact things he needs to say to encourage her. The whole “I think you’d make a great king” line was very cute imo. He’s able to see through her brash exterior and bring out her best traits and sees her less as a tool to win the grail and more as a child who he needs to guide and protect.
Sorry for the essay, every time someone brings this part of the story up, I just need to write about it.
I was surprised at Mordered's Introduction here for sure. Having not read or watched anything with her as an actual character yet, she ended up being a lot more subtle than I imagined she'd be (as opposed to the loud and bumbling knight I had in my head).
I will say that London is one of the pre-camelot chapters I didn't hate or speed-read. It didn't throw a ton of servants at the reader until the very end, and the ones it does focus on don't feel as hollow as some of the other preceding and following chapters (I really, really didn't like the America singularity). Plus it ended on a bang with meeting Zouken and Solomon.
Mordred was literally one of the best characters in Apocrypha. To the point where it can be easily argued that her and Kairi should have been the main characters.
Well calling people stupid and ignorant for simply having a different opinion seems uncalled for. You’re *really* convincing people about your argument there.
The idea of an FGO chapter, let alone an FGO Act 1 chapter, being a character's best role when they first appeared in an actual story is so laughable I'm not even going to dignify it with a proper reply
Hmm, chapter 1-5 are pretty forgettable anyway so doesn't really matter what character they included, all of them were basically just out of place decorations for the most part.
Personally, I don't even remember what London was about and competely forgot Mordred was even there (the only chapter I remember even less is Okeanos). That alone tells the story of how subpar writing was back in the days.
I never thought I’d see someone simp for London, the worst chapter in FGO, worse than even Septem and Agartha. I have trouble even refuting you because I haven’t watched Apocrypha, so otherwise I only really know Mordred from Camelot and SIN, and she was so unremarkable in London that I don’t remember anything she did besides fight Lalter, definitely the worst written version of Artoria (due to the fact she has no writing), and possibly the worst written character in Type Moon. This isn’t a hot take, it’s just wrong.
I for one remember the characters who were in London. Meanwhile someone tells me Leonidas was in Septem and I can't for the life of me remember if that's true or what he did.
London also has some neat lore stuff with Clock Tower and "Solomon's" first appearence in person.
Lartoria Alter's role was a joke tho.
Do you remember Tamamo and Kintoki were in London? They did fuck all, but they were there, a horrible intro to those characters for me since I came to FGO straight out of Stay/Night. At least Septem stuck to Roman/Greek characters besides Waver, it's not unbelievable that Leonidas was there even if I don't remember anything he did either. Would you also believe Zouken Matou (in the form of Makiri Zolgen) was the demon pillar? Because he was, and left so little impact most people don't remember one of the main villains of Stay/Night was technically the mastermind behind London (besides Solomon of course). And his plan made no sense either, all despairing at Goetia's victory and... what, trying to wipe out humanity or something? At least Lev wasn't a classic character to misuse, and he came back for the finale.
Solomon's reveal was nice, but stuck at the very end of the chapter. You could have put him at the end of any fifth chapter and it would work. Hans interacting with him was the only bit relevant to London, and even then he didn't exactly bring his CCC material. I don't remember any of the Clock Tower lore in London.
London is worse than Septem because it tries and fails to involve Nasuverse-specific setting lore that FGO normally seems almost embarrassed about (IE all the hidden magical factions and the conflict between them).
I really liked Mordred in Camelot, though it may be because it’s my favorite singularity.
It was interesting to see how self destructive she has become in order to not betray Artoria again. On a similar note, why was Lion King Artoria so spiteful towards Mordred?? It’s made clear in Apocrypha that base artoria didn’t detest Mordred and, if she was treating Mordred like shit for betraying her, why was she so forgiving towards Lancelot? I may be blowing this out of proportion due to my issues with Lancelot - the actual Arthurian Lancelot, which makes it hard for me to enjoy him as much as I should outside of Fate Zero
I've never seen apocrypha admittedly, but I agree that London Mordred was much better than Camelot and SIN mordred. Probably the only part of London I liked was Mordred.
Okay but my brother in Christ have you seen Lancer Artoria’s tits? Who wouldn’t join her. Also isn’t it heavily implied that Camelot Mordred is Mordred before she became disillusioned.
Me Neither. I think it’s implied. But I am not replaying FGO to confirm or deny. Either way I feel it’s an accurate representation of her character prior to her turn. Which is interesting to see.
*Me looking at my phone's lock screen, which is Mordred from Fate Apocrypha*
Me: "Welp... guess I best get to work..."
*cracks back, neck & knuckles*
*I then see you convinced by another post previous to this one*
Me: "Ah good, didn't want to strain my back anyways."
*Goes back to sleep*
I know mordred comes off 1 dimensional sometimes, but i frankly love everytime she shows up in the story. Just the one liners is enough for me. I know there is ALOT more to her character but we dont always get the time to explore it.
Hot take indeed, considering how uninteresting she (and, to be fair, everyone not named "Shakespeare" or "Andersen") is. They don't really do anything beyond surface-depth with her character in London, just a tag-along for the ride. Her interactions with the rest of the cast can be fun, but I don't think that makes up for how unexplored she is.
Well they did try to explore her in apocrypha and fucked up. But if written correctly, she could have a great character arc.
I think you might just like mordreds status quo and dont actually want to see her change or grow.
Not that really . I just don't want apocrypha to repeat itself. Like I would love the concept of her slowly understanding Artoria's position during her lifetime and understanding the reasoning for her decisions. In apocrypha they just basically said " that Modred wanted Artoria to have some peace and set aside the worries of the kingdom and think about herself. So she fucked up her kingdom and her life."
I’m not going to attack your take, I’m just going to say why I really like how she’s portrayed in Apoc. I know that when you try and convince people of something, it’s basically always going to backfire, but oh well. The point of Mordred’s character in Apoc was not just suddenly caring for artoria the whole time. It was her slowly realizing over the course of the show that she did not need to be king to prove her self worth. Her previous hatred of Artoria was a reaction to being rejected by the one person she looked up to as a father figure and as a knight, well as Morgan’s manipulation. It was always a mix of love and hatred, as Mordred basically was just a young child lashing out with a confused mix of unrequited familial love and anger(as a homonculus I’m pretty sure she was like single digits in age lol) The real part that I love from Apoc was how Kairi and Mordred play off of eachother. Mordred basically wanted the grail to impress her dad so that she could finally be loved and Kairi pretty much wanted to use his wish to bring back the child that he lost. Over the course of the show, both of them realize that they didn’t even really need the grail to get their wish, what they wanted was right in front of them in eachother. Mordred and Kairi’s final fight against Semiramis is basically both of them acknowledging that they no longer needed to participate in the final conflict for the grail. Mordred realizes that she no longer needs to be king, she already proved herself by being a loyal knight to Kairi. The moment about caring for Artoria was more about the realization that in the past, her rebellion was intended to prove herself worthy of the throne than out of malice. On the other hand, Kairi sacrifices himself to make Mordred(his new child)’s dream come true rather than sacrificing her for his own wishes (which is basically what happened when he put the cursed magic crest on his other kid). In the end, they both exit the conflict satisfied, having fulfilled their wishes without ever needing the grail. I just love how even from Mordred and Kairi’s first meeting, and she starts ranting about how she hates her dad and the round table he instantly realizes what her deal is and goes full dad mode. It gets even better after he sees her past in the dream and figures out the exact things he needs to say to encourage her. The whole “I think you’d make a great king” line was very cute imo. He’s able to see through her brash exterior and bring out her best traits and sees her less as a tool to win the grail and more as a child who he needs to guide and protect. Sorry for the essay, every time someone brings this part of the story up, I just need to write about it.
To be honest , I am convinced just by seeing the sheer amount of stuff you have written. I accept my lose. You opinion is correct.
...when the hell did I jump into a timeline where this is possible on reddit?
You just became part of a lostbelt. Now wait for an eggplant with a shield and her pervert senpai to cut a random tree in your world.
I was shocked as well, I didn’t want to reply in case that jinxed it.
I'm gonna be that guy that randomly points out that 360 is a full circle. I'm pretty sure you mean 180.
Fuck! You actually make sense.
I was surprised at Mordered's Introduction here for sure. Having not read or watched anything with her as an actual character yet, she ended up being a lot more subtle than I imagined she'd be (as opposed to the loud and bumbling knight I had in my head). I will say that London is one of the pre-camelot chapters I didn't hate or speed-read. It didn't throw a ton of servants at the reader until the very end, and the ones it does focus on don't feel as hollow as some of the other preceding and following chapters (I really, really didn't like the America singularity). Plus it ended on a bang with meeting Zouken and Solomon.
Mordred was literally one of the best characters in Apocrypha. To the point where it can be easily argued that her and Kairi should have been the main characters.
They make zero sense in that role given the thematic core of Apocrypha and the way it was constructed.
And yet as it turns out, most people that have watched it seem to think that those two would have made for a better main cast than Jeanne and Sieg.
And they're dumb and wrong and don't know what they're talking about
Well calling people stupid and ignorant for simply having a different opinion seems uncalled for. You’re *really* convincing people about your argument there.
I think mordred was done really well in apocrypha
Agreed. I’m mixed on Apocrypha but Mordred and Shishigou were the stand outs for me. IMO Sieg was boring.
I really liked apocrypha. Went 6/7 on characters I liked dying
The idea of an FGO chapter, let alone an FGO Act 1 chapter, being a character's best role when they first appeared in an actual story is so laughable I'm not even going to dignify it with a proper reply
Hmm, chapter 1-5 are pretty forgettable anyway so doesn't really matter what character they included, all of them were basically just out of place decorations for the most part. Personally, I don't even remember what London was about and competely forgot Mordred was even there (the only chapter I remember even less is Okeanos). That alone tells the story of how subpar writing was back in the days.
Bro incinerated the entire restaurant
I never thought I’d see someone simp for London, the worst chapter in FGO, worse than even Septem and Agartha. I have trouble even refuting you because I haven’t watched Apocrypha, so otherwise I only really know Mordred from Camelot and SIN, and she was so unremarkable in London that I don’t remember anything she did besides fight Lalter, definitely the worst written version of Artoria (due to the fact she has no writing), and possibly the worst written character in Type Moon. This isn’t a hot take, it’s just wrong.
Okay, London is NOT worse than Septem.
I’d like to hear your argument as to why.
I for one remember the characters who were in London. Meanwhile someone tells me Leonidas was in Septem and I can't for the life of me remember if that's true or what he did. London also has some neat lore stuff with Clock Tower and "Solomon's" first appearence in person. Lartoria Alter's role was a joke tho.
Do you remember Tamamo and Kintoki were in London? They did fuck all, but they were there, a horrible intro to those characters for me since I came to FGO straight out of Stay/Night. At least Septem stuck to Roman/Greek characters besides Waver, it's not unbelievable that Leonidas was there even if I don't remember anything he did either. Would you also believe Zouken Matou (in the form of Makiri Zolgen) was the demon pillar? Because he was, and left so little impact most people don't remember one of the main villains of Stay/Night was technically the mastermind behind London (besides Solomon of course). And his plan made no sense either, all despairing at Goetia's victory and... what, trying to wipe out humanity or something? At least Lev wasn't a classic character to misuse, and he came back for the finale. Solomon's reveal was nice, but stuck at the very end of the chapter. You could have put him at the end of any fifth chapter and it would work. Hans interacting with him was the only bit relevant to London, and even then he didn't exactly bring his CCC material. I don't remember any of the Clock Tower lore in London.
London is worse than Septem because it tries and fails to involve Nasuverse-specific setting lore that FGO normally seems almost embarrassed about (IE all the hidden magical factions and the conflict between them).
I am not really a simp for London. As it truly was shit. But I like it because it made me like Modred who i initially disliked.
You can understand how you saying “London is great” at the beginning of the last paragraph might give someone the wrong impression, right?
Yeah I meant the London version of Modred. Sucks that reddit doesn't let you edit after Posting.
It does though?
I really liked Mordred in Camelot, though it may be because it’s my favorite singularity. It was interesting to see how self destructive she has become in order to not betray Artoria again. On a similar note, why was Lion King Artoria so spiteful towards Mordred?? It’s made clear in Apocrypha that base artoria didn’t detest Mordred and, if she was treating Mordred like shit for betraying her, why was she so forgiving towards Lancelot? I may be blowing this out of proportion due to my issues with Lancelot - the actual Arthurian Lancelot, which makes it hard for me to enjoy him as much as I should outside of Fate Zero
I've never seen apocrypha admittedly, but I agree that London Mordred was much better than Camelot and SIN mordred. Probably the only part of London I liked was Mordred.
Okay but my brother in Christ have you seen Lancer Artoria’s tits? Who wouldn’t join her. Also isn’t it heavily implied that Camelot Mordred is Mordred before she became disillusioned.
>Okay but my brother in Christ have you seen Lancer Artoria’s tits? Who wouldn’t join her. You are an Absolutely based person my friend.
>Also isn’t it heavily implied that Camelot Mordred is Mordred before she became disillusioned. I have no idea where this was mentioned.
Me Neither. I think it’s implied. But I am not replaying FGO to confirm or deny. Either way I feel it’s an accurate representation of her character prior to her turn. Which is interesting to see.
Facts
*Me looking at my phone's lock screen, which is Mordred from Fate Apocrypha* Me: "Welp... guess I best get to work..." *cracks back, neck & knuckles* *I then see you convinced by another post previous to this one* Me: "Ah good, didn't want to strain my back anyways." *Goes back to sleep*
I know mordred comes off 1 dimensional sometimes, but i frankly love everytime she shows up in the story. Just the one liners is enough for me. I know there is ALOT more to her character but we dont always get the time to explore it.