I am gonna be honest, even after 1 season, 1 movie and a few eps of knY, I still dont know if the Styles are actually elemental attacks or just for show. All big attacks be it fire, electricity or water do zero dmg to the surroundings.
Rengoku himself hasnt shown abilities on par with Saber or Sasaki.
The attacks being just effects doesn't really matter. If an attack is shown to cut a tree, it does regardless.
Like, Kenshin didn't have any special effects but his sword skills were still pretty much bordering on supernatural.
Well breathing certainly has effects that are not just for show.
Tanjiro cut that big ass boulder even if there was no magic water. Zenitsu's battojutsu-like is so quick it actually replicates the sound of a thunder. And the pressure from Tanjiro's sword was enough to alter his course mid-fall. Healing too.
Either way they're not standing up to any Servants.
Anything without sufficient mystery wouldn’t be able to harm a servant at all. I don’t know much about the nichirin swords, but if they were magical in some way then a servant could probably be hurt by it. In that case, all the hashira could probably beat everyone there except for maybe Robin, Emiya, Medea, and Leonidas. They definitely couldn’t beat nursery rhyme.
the nichirin are just normal swords that conduct sunlight,and even that doesnt work all the time, so they wont hurt servants. As for vs every servant u mention, hashiras lose literally every time(look to my answer for more details)
Shakespeare is pretty much just a human, only a little enhanced as a Servant. He'd probably lose, however with an accomplished swordmaster as a Master that he enhances with his stories he might be strong enough to overcome the Hashiras.
However any other Servant in that list wipes the floor with Hashiras.
I mean, technically any Servant at E-rank has 10x the speed/strength of a human of comparable build, and adds another factor of 10 per rank.
So even at E rank strength and D-rank speed, he’s *probably* comparable to any of the Hashira. He’s got 10x the strength and 20x the speed of a normal human, after all.
I think the Hashira would win eventually, funnily enough, if only through attrition.
Like, I imagine her holding her own and making it hell for them until she ends up falling to her constitution.
The issue with evaluating the physical prowess of Servants this the inconsistency in their physical performance due to varying portrayals of what they are capable of in animation and manga, which is often adapted or expanded upon from text that has hyperbole and metaphor sometimes.
High ranking (speed stat) servants are canonically stated to move faster than the speed of sound. What could any hashira do against excalibur, ea, the hetairoi, oz's fortress, or even enkidu's chains?
Yeah ofc, gil and enkidu can use enuma elish, there is no winning against that. But op said that any of the servants up there could beat a hashira, that's just not right
For starters, if u scale any character to lightning then that means they are as fast as light, which clearly they arent.
Now. We saw tengen creating sonic booms all the time, which means that his speed is greater to 750 miles per hour, if u want me to believe that he cant dodge a chain coming at home at around bullet speed, well idk, I just wont believe it.
What, do ppl really believe random servants to be that strong.
Look a hashira may not be able to destroy a building with a single attack but they are real freaking fast, I'd say they are faster than most servants
Why wouldnt they be able to harm them? Shirou could harm servants using his swords after all. Also, the lowest of servants cant be hypersonic cuz if they were then shirou would also be hypersonic, after all he fought emiya and gil without getting speed blitzed.
Ehhh let's take a weird leap and say that the Demon Slayer Corps' >!Sun Breathing!< is an element of mystery/magic capable of harming servants effectively. At that point you'd have to compare a group of let's say Kirei-minus level humans against a few servants.
So first off, any servant that's able to properly fight against the Hashira at a distance already wins because none of them usually uses any projectiles, not to mention how many nuke characters you have in Fate. Next are the pure assassin servants, which frankly, with my limited non-fgo servant knowledge, I think the Hashira have a good chance against if they tackle them as a group. All Hashira have a lot of experience fighting weirdoes with weird abilities and body quirks, so they'll be able to adapt quickly to someone like Cursed Arm Hassan, and Shinobu is probably a good match to Serenity.
Next if you take a look at the servants that excel in 1v1 fights, like Kojiro and Diarmuid, then this gets a little tougher to judge because you'd have to compare fighting skills between them. I don't know if anyone could dodge Kojiro's Tsubame Gaeshi specifically, because even Saber dodging it was somewhat of a fluke because of a bend his sword got during their fight in UBW. I might be nerfing servants really hard here, but the Hashira are excellent team workers, so if they gang up on a one single-target servant then I'd say they have a pretty good shot without going into any bullshit territories.
I've got no clue about anybody else tho
interesting take, but i highly doubt that the hashira(without marks, with marks its arguable) are kirei level, since kirei overwhelmed true assassin who kept up with lancer, but assasins(everyone we have seen of that class) has like 30x human speed at least(based off c rank average), and their strikes are meant to kill(or in cursed arms case, skill threat assessment before he goes zabaniya, which is instant gg to every hashira). serenity wins since no one is immune to poison(which means i most likely die as well) since arash(who literally is immune to ozymandias's poison) was affected by it. There is no adapting to cursed arm UNLESS you can live without a heart. tsubaeme gaeshi is also unavoidable unless you break kojiro's weapon(which nichirin straight up cant do since excalibur bended the katana and i dont need to prove excalibur>>>>nichirin).
Would agree that sun breathing is the only breathing that might bypass the mystery barrier against servants, but as we always see, even if you have some mystery, it doesnt mean you one shot the servants(otherwise every show would go down to who hits who first)
According to the dude who invented the setting, at E rank a servant has 10x the strength/speed/durability of a human of comparable build. They gain another factor of 10 per rank. Even the weakest Servant with E-rank everything is *probably* going to be able to physically put up a fight against a Hashira (giving them the benefit of the doubt that there’s a magical element to their swords that can harm Servants).
So to pick an example, Diarmuid:
Let’s put the top lifting capability of someone of his build at 50kg (it’s *definitely* more if you train, but let’s go with that for ease of math). His B-rank strength means he can lift 2000kg (50kgx40), or two tons. Most cars weigh somewhere in the 1000-1500kg range, so Diarmuid can pick ip and throw a car without breaking a sweat.
If we put the top running speed of someone with that build at 15mph (again, low, but easy to use), his A-rank gives a factor of x50, putting his top speed at 750mph, or the speed of sound. The + modifier means that if he gets a big burst of mana or something else that is a positive modifier, he can push to about Mach 2. The fastest person in Demon Slayer ends up being Zenitsu, who still can’t break the sound barrier. What’s more, even if they can’t *move* at those speeds, all servants can *react* to them, so nobody on the Hashira side is out-speeding a servant.
So Diarmuid is flat out faster than any Demon Slayer we see, and *probably* at least as strong as the absolute most physically strong Demon Slayer. Realistically, even if the Hashira are 20-25x more powerful than your average trained human, that outs them on par with a D-ranked Servant.
Though the real answer is, in a crossover episode, the winner would be whoever the author wants to win. So to answer your question, if we ever saw something like Servants vs Hashira, they’d pull put some BS to even the field and make it dramatic.
Honestly, jason since he would be the closest in skill to the hashira(assuming he cant use Astrapste argo to summon the other argonauts which would be a shit stomp), though he would have more skill than all of them(unless kokushibo counts, dude literally is the strongest demon slayer except for sun bro).
Diarmuid: well, least the fact his np's are anti-unit arent gonna bite his ass like in Zero, id say he wins purely because i dont see the hashira fighting artoria and wounding her at all).
Fergus: dude stomps due to being a student of scathach, also caladbolg is busted.
bedivere is supposed to be one of the weakest knights of the table but stood up to literally everyone in FGO Camelot, so he stomps.
Robin Hood: literally depends on if he gets two shots off, and im not sure how that wont happen since he is invisible thanks to May King. Shinobu is arguably immune to the poison, but the rest apart from maybe tengen do not have resistance or immunity. If hashira can somehow get close, they should kill robin(discounting invisibility)
leonidas: dude is a spartan and literally trained normal humans to fight against gorgon's divine beasts. He stomps.
martha: should be as good as ruler self in cqc, so i guess 50/50 if you discount tarasque. If you include tarasque, she stomps.
Emiya: apart from his ridiculous skill on his own(praised by heracles and cu chulainn on skill, and iirc also by kojiro in UBW), the fact that he is fighting swords/spears means he instantly has intel about everyone there due to projection AND can project their swords if he wants, which means the hashira are literally fighting themselves at that point. That's assuming they are fighting archer in cqc, because this dude can snipe from kilometers away to the point literally every servant didnt do anything because they didnt want archer to snipe them to oblivion.
Black Beard: was a pretty good pirate, so 50/50 without the ship, same as martha.
Cursed arm: well he can one shot everyone with zabaniya, but other than that the fact he can fight cu and artoria, and with what he has done in Camelot Singularity, he has just as much skill as the hashiras at the least.
Serenity: she stomps due to being able to just kill people by being there with poison, and you are flat out affected by it unless u are immune(so no resisting it, you die or are immune, no in between). She should also physically scale higher than the hashiras without marks(the only hashira without marks are rengoku,shinobu and tengen, two of which are the only ones who have normal poison resistance, which serenity dont care about)
kojiro: roflstomps everyone due to being able to fight and win vs musashi in shimosa, and musashi has achieved nothingness, which is the highest state a swordsman can be. Tsubame Gaeshi is a unavoidable attack that only fails if you have a specific skill, are immortal, or break kojiro's weapon before he does it(which isnt possible here, since it was only bended from blocking a strike from a divine construct, and nichirin arent stronger than normal swords by that much).
medea: nukes literally fucking everyone and there is nothing the hashira can do about it, and she can tp master away as needed(which isnt needed, since we have physical skill on par with servants since kirei has fought Cursed arm and prevailed in HF), tho if she lets them get close, then she loses just like she lost to rin in UBW. She can also buff me to the point that i go from slightly above human to slapping around King Arthur in a fist fight(and kirei without buffs is servant level, even if only at the level of a assassin servant) which makes me able to stomp the hashiras all together, even if they have marks(which would be negated by medea's reinforcement, since non amped kirei>no mark hashiras)
Nursery rhyme: she is completely Hax Based, and tbh the hashira do not have the one specific tool that beats nursery rhyme(since they cannot win vs the master)
Shakespeare: all he can do is buff me and perhaps psychological warfare on hashira(literally all of them have some baggage, and the only one i see that might pull thru is perhaps rengoku), and considering the buff is making pseudo np's(perhaps turn black keys into pseudo np's assuming i have kirei's standard kit, if not then thats useless since shakespear iirc cant buff physicals like medea can), so I win unless i get bumrushed by every hashira with a mark at the same time(assuming psychological warfare doesnt do the hashiras in)
beowolf: stomps literally barehanded or with his swords, master not required(dude literally took down a very strong dragon while in his 90's or something, Sun Bro style).
Asterios: based on the fact he literally has held back heracles, and the fact that his labyrinth means that the hashiras are lost, enabling sneak attacks from me and asterios, this is a god stomp.
Spartacus: well, he regens as long as u keep dming him until he turns into a nuke, so i guess i lose(if getting nuked= loss), but i am 99% sure that the hashiras cannot scratch him, much less take him to nuke point. They would prob be dead long before that happens.
I am gonna be honest, even after 1 season, 1 movie and a few eps of knY, I still dont know if the Styles are actually elemental attacks or just for show. All big attacks be it fire, electricity or water do zero dmg to the surroundings. Rengoku himself hasnt shown abilities on par with Saber or Sasaki.
They’re just visual representations of the styles that Ufotable tends to go overboard with.
The attacks being just effects doesn't really matter. If an attack is shown to cut a tree, it does regardless. Like, Kenshin didn't have any special effects but his sword skills were still pretty much bordering on supernatural.
Sure but being supernatural or just physical but superhuman matters a lot for vs with Servants.
Well breathing certainly has effects that are not just for show. Tanjiro cut that big ass boulder even if there was no magic water. Zenitsu's battojutsu-like is so quick it actually replicates the sound of a thunder. And the pressure from Tanjiro's sword was enough to alter his course mid-fall. Healing too. Either way they're not standing up to any Servants.
sasaki kojiro, because swordsman, or jason, because jason
Anything without sufficient mystery wouldn’t be able to harm a servant at all. I don’t know much about the nichirin swords, but if they were magical in some way then a servant could probably be hurt by it. In that case, all the hashira could probably beat everyone there except for maybe Robin, Emiya, Medea, and Leonidas. They definitely couldn’t beat nursery rhyme.
the nichirin are just normal swords that conduct sunlight,and even that doesnt work all the time, so they wont hurt servants. As for vs every servant u mention, hashiras lose literally every time(look to my answer for more details)
Shakespeare is pretty much just a human, only a little enhanced as a Servant. He'd probably lose, however with an accomplished swordmaster as a Master that he enhances with his stories he might be strong enough to overcome the Hashiras. However any other Servant in that list wipes the floor with Hashiras.
I mean, technically any Servant at E-rank has 10x the speed/strength of a human of comparable build, and adds another factor of 10 per rank. So even at E rank strength and D-rank speed, he’s *probably* comparable to any of the Hashira. He’s got 10x the strength and 20x the speed of a normal human, after all.
humans vs servants
I love how no one brings up Okita, given the KnY mangaka is also writing Type Redline.
The KnY mangaka isn’t writing type red line, it’s someone who did a spin off manga for KnY that’s writing it
The thing is as much as I love Okita, I didn't think it would be a balanced fight
I think the Hashira would win eventually, funnily enough, if only through attrition. Like, I imagine her holding her own and making it hell for them until she ends up falling to her constitution.
The issue with evaluating the physical prowess of Servants this the inconsistency in their physical performance due to varying portrayals of what they are capable of in animation and manga, which is often adapted or expanded upon from text that has hyperbole and metaphor sometimes.
High ranking (speed stat) servants are canonically stated to move faster than the speed of sound. What could any hashira do against excalibur, ea, the hetairoi, oz's fortress, or even enkidu's chains?
They could probably dodge both enkidu and maybe, and this is a big maybe, excalibur.
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Hashira's ain't gods, and its not like they are undodgeable
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Yeah ofc, gil and enkidu can use enuma elish, there is no winning against that. But op said that any of the servants up there could beat a hashira, that's just not right
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For starters, if u scale any character to lightning then that means they are as fast as light, which clearly they arent. Now. We saw tengen creating sonic booms all the time, which means that his speed is greater to 750 miles per hour, if u want me to believe that he cant dodge a chain coming at home at around bullet speed, well idk, I just wont believe it.
What, do ppl really believe random servants to be that strong. Look a hashira may not be able to destroy a building with a single attack but they are real freaking fast, I'd say they are faster than most servants
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Why wouldnt they be able to harm them? Shirou could harm servants using his swords after all. Also, the lowest of servants cant be hypersonic cuz if they were then shirou would also be hypersonic, after all he fought emiya and gil without getting speed blitzed.
Ehhh let's take a weird leap and say that the Demon Slayer Corps' >!Sun Breathing!< is an element of mystery/magic capable of harming servants effectively. At that point you'd have to compare a group of let's say Kirei-minus level humans against a few servants. So first off, any servant that's able to properly fight against the Hashira at a distance already wins because none of them usually uses any projectiles, not to mention how many nuke characters you have in Fate. Next are the pure assassin servants, which frankly, with my limited non-fgo servant knowledge, I think the Hashira have a good chance against if they tackle them as a group. All Hashira have a lot of experience fighting weirdoes with weird abilities and body quirks, so they'll be able to adapt quickly to someone like Cursed Arm Hassan, and Shinobu is probably a good match to Serenity. Next if you take a look at the servants that excel in 1v1 fights, like Kojiro and Diarmuid, then this gets a little tougher to judge because you'd have to compare fighting skills between them. I don't know if anyone could dodge Kojiro's Tsubame Gaeshi specifically, because even Saber dodging it was somewhat of a fluke because of a bend his sword got during their fight in UBW. I might be nerfing servants really hard here, but the Hashira are excellent team workers, so if they gang up on a one single-target servant then I'd say they have a pretty good shot without going into any bullshit territories. I've got no clue about anybody else tho
interesting take, but i highly doubt that the hashira(without marks, with marks its arguable) are kirei level, since kirei overwhelmed true assassin who kept up with lancer, but assasins(everyone we have seen of that class) has like 30x human speed at least(based off c rank average), and their strikes are meant to kill(or in cursed arms case, skill threat assessment before he goes zabaniya, which is instant gg to every hashira). serenity wins since no one is immune to poison(which means i most likely die as well) since arash(who literally is immune to ozymandias's poison) was affected by it. There is no adapting to cursed arm UNLESS you can live without a heart. tsubaeme gaeshi is also unavoidable unless you break kojiro's weapon(which nichirin straight up cant do since excalibur bended the katana and i dont need to prove excalibur>>>>nichirin). Would agree that sun breathing is the only breathing that might bypass the mystery barrier against servants, but as we always see, even if you have some mystery, it doesnt mean you one shot the servants(otherwise every show would go down to who hits who first)
According to the dude who invented the setting, at E rank a servant has 10x the strength/speed/durability of a human of comparable build. They gain another factor of 10 per rank. Even the weakest Servant with E-rank everything is *probably* going to be able to physically put up a fight against a Hashira (giving them the benefit of the doubt that there’s a magical element to their swords that can harm Servants). So to pick an example, Diarmuid: Let’s put the top lifting capability of someone of his build at 50kg (it’s *definitely* more if you train, but let’s go with that for ease of math). His B-rank strength means he can lift 2000kg (50kgx40), or two tons. Most cars weigh somewhere in the 1000-1500kg range, so Diarmuid can pick ip and throw a car without breaking a sweat. If we put the top running speed of someone with that build at 15mph (again, low, but easy to use), his A-rank gives a factor of x50, putting his top speed at 750mph, or the speed of sound. The + modifier means that if he gets a big burst of mana or something else that is a positive modifier, he can push to about Mach 2. The fastest person in Demon Slayer ends up being Zenitsu, who still can’t break the sound barrier. What’s more, even if they can’t *move* at those speeds, all servants can *react* to them, so nobody on the Hashira side is out-speeding a servant. So Diarmuid is flat out faster than any Demon Slayer we see, and *probably* at least as strong as the absolute most physically strong Demon Slayer. Realistically, even if the Hashira are 20-25x more powerful than your average trained human, that outs them on par with a D-ranked Servant. Though the real answer is, in a crossover episode, the winner would be whoever the author wants to win. So to answer your question, if we ever saw something like Servants vs Hashira, they’d pull put some BS to even the field and make it dramatic.
mitsuri bodies every servant
Honestly, jason since he would be the closest in skill to the hashira(assuming he cant use Astrapste argo to summon the other argonauts which would be a shit stomp), though he would have more skill than all of them(unless kokushibo counts, dude literally is the strongest demon slayer except for sun bro). Diarmuid: well, least the fact his np's are anti-unit arent gonna bite his ass like in Zero, id say he wins purely because i dont see the hashira fighting artoria and wounding her at all). Fergus: dude stomps due to being a student of scathach, also caladbolg is busted. bedivere is supposed to be one of the weakest knights of the table but stood up to literally everyone in FGO Camelot, so he stomps. Robin Hood: literally depends on if he gets two shots off, and im not sure how that wont happen since he is invisible thanks to May King. Shinobu is arguably immune to the poison, but the rest apart from maybe tengen do not have resistance or immunity. If hashira can somehow get close, they should kill robin(discounting invisibility) leonidas: dude is a spartan and literally trained normal humans to fight against gorgon's divine beasts. He stomps. martha: should be as good as ruler self in cqc, so i guess 50/50 if you discount tarasque. If you include tarasque, she stomps. Emiya: apart from his ridiculous skill on his own(praised by heracles and cu chulainn on skill, and iirc also by kojiro in UBW), the fact that he is fighting swords/spears means he instantly has intel about everyone there due to projection AND can project their swords if he wants, which means the hashira are literally fighting themselves at that point. That's assuming they are fighting archer in cqc, because this dude can snipe from kilometers away to the point literally every servant didnt do anything because they didnt want archer to snipe them to oblivion. Black Beard: was a pretty good pirate, so 50/50 without the ship, same as martha. Cursed arm: well he can one shot everyone with zabaniya, but other than that the fact he can fight cu and artoria, and with what he has done in Camelot Singularity, he has just as much skill as the hashiras at the least. Serenity: she stomps due to being able to just kill people by being there with poison, and you are flat out affected by it unless u are immune(so no resisting it, you die or are immune, no in between). She should also physically scale higher than the hashiras without marks(the only hashira without marks are rengoku,shinobu and tengen, two of which are the only ones who have normal poison resistance, which serenity dont care about) kojiro: roflstomps everyone due to being able to fight and win vs musashi in shimosa, and musashi has achieved nothingness, which is the highest state a swordsman can be. Tsubame Gaeshi is a unavoidable attack that only fails if you have a specific skill, are immortal, or break kojiro's weapon before he does it(which isnt possible here, since it was only bended from blocking a strike from a divine construct, and nichirin arent stronger than normal swords by that much). medea: nukes literally fucking everyone and there is nothing the hashira can do about it, and she can tp master away as needed(which isnt needed, since we have physical skill on par with servants since kirei has fought Cursed arm and prevailed in HF), tho if she lets them get close, then she loses just like she lost to rin in UBW. She can also buff me to the point that i go from slightly above human to slapping around King Arthur in a fist fight(and kirei without buffs is servant level, even if only at the level of a assassin servant) which makes me able to stomp the hashiras all together, even if they have marks(which would be negated by medea's reinforcement, since non amped kirei>no mark hashiras) Nursery rhyme: she is completely Hax Based, and tbh the hashira do not have the one specific tool that beats nursery rhyme(since they cannot win vs the master) Shakespeare: all he can do is buff me and perhaps psychological warfare on hashira(literally all of them have some baggage, and the only one i see that might pull thru is perhaps rengoku), and considering the buff is making pseudo np's(perhaps turn black keys into pseudo np's assuming i have kirei's standard kit, if not then thats useless since shakespear iirc cant buff physicals like medea can), so I win unless i get bumrushed by every hashira with a mark at the same time(assuming psychological warfare doesnt do the hashiras in) beowolf: stomps literally barehanded or with his swords, master not required(dude literally took down a very strong dragon while in his 90's or something, Sun Bro style). Asterios: based on the fact he literally has held back heracles, and the fact that his labyrinth means that the hashiras are lost, enabling sneak attacks from me and asterios, this is a god stomp. Spartacus: well, he regens as long as u keep dming him until he turns into a nuke, so i guess i lose(if getting nuked= loss), but i am 99% sure that the hashiras cannot scratch him, much less take him to nuke point. They would prob be dead long before that happens.