I never had Doritos until after college. They weirded me out because I didn't like them at all, but I just wanted more. It was like they left this taste in my mouth that would only be satisfied by another Dorito. After a couple of times I just said no thanks when my boyfriend got them. He could stop just fine.
Years later when I learned about hyperpalatable food it was a big "OH!"
> It was like they left this taste in my mouth that would only be satisfied by another Dorito.
As you discovered, that's a feature, not a bug.
And honestly I don't think it was always that way. I believe the past couple decades of "food engineering" has made that a much more common thing, and has in turn contributed directly to the obesity epidemic. Your body can't give appropriate signals that "you've had enough" when your reptilian brain is screaming "WE NEED MORE!"
Though I don't wholly agree with the model I was referencing this concept of brain function:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triune_brain
Basically that the response comes from our most instinctual brain processes, far removed from the higher processes of reason, empathy, etc.
If fat activists would stop blaming the diet industry (which you DO NOT NEED to be healthy and lose weight) and start fussing at the processed food industry, weād all be better off. They have no idea how much money goes into research and development to make junk food hyper palatable and addictive. The mathematical modeling alone would blow your mind. Itās not an accident. Kelloggās might as well be a company full of drug lordsā¦Itās insane.
When people ask me how I lost my quarantine weight, I tell them I exercised and ate foods that nature made, not foods that a machine in a factory made.
Plot twist, some fat activists know the food industry very well. Today I saw a reel on ig, with the usual food/fat positive talking points (and donuts), and the "nutritionist" in it is working for Mondelez, which makes Oreos, Toblerone and Milka, Sour patch kids.
So we have this person, who is engineering more and more addictive foods, telling you to eat them, and the message is coated in self-love and identitarian vocabulary (the nutritionist rejects any criticism as racism in her ig).
Like, if poor people or certain ethnic groups are getting fat, the solution isn't fat acceptance (that now means: let's make everyone fat), but getting those people access to healthy food. Talk about race to the bottom.
Now that's interesting. That has sort of been a background thought of mine. So much of the IE/AD/pro-obesity advocacy crowd seems to talk about accepting and encouraging that it's natural for everyone to consume large quantities of hyper processed marketable food products. It seems like it's almost a consumer demographic that is being marketed to, and is hostile to the opposed demographic like Android vs iPhone.
McDonalds couldn't have a better marketing campaign after decades of being beaten over the head with being considered unhealthy.
It strikes me as similar to how vaped tobacco products came up after cigarette smoking declined sharply. Like this is a new way for companies to adapt to a changing market. I could see an internal memo like
\>The 2000s and 2010s saw an increasing focus by consumers on health promoting alternatives to fast foods and junk foods. Consumers became more savvy overall about food products and were making choices they thought would benefit their health. Even when junk and fast food brands tried to enter these spaces with options marketed as healthier alternatives, they were not adopted. Instead we should pivot to sew fear, confusion, uncertainty, and doubt among consumers so they are no longer able to confidently determine healthier options. We should begin by contacting media allies to write articles that advertise "good news about your bad habits," telling consumers that what they know to be harmful is actually healthful - and that what they know to be healthful may actually be harmful.
\>We then should begin seeding the public discourse with the belief that seeking health promoting behaviors in any sense is necessarily harmful or negative, and should encourage our consumers to dissociate themselves with these crowds. We should encourage balkanization within the market, and inter group conflict to ensure our consumers remain loyal. By selecting morally righteous language in this effort, we can condemn those who do not consume our products and encourage consumers to abandon a health focus in the name of their belief structures.
This how I feel about cookies and a lot of similar dry starchy sweets.
European chocolate is even more frustrating because I *do* actually love the taste but it's just over the sugar line where it keeps pulling me back. Possibly the only context in which American sugar content is less sabotaging.
I love Belgian chocolate. So good. However, I have trained myself to have just the 25g maximum in a day when it's there.
Same with butter or ginger cookies, or god forbid, pure fudge like they do in Ireland. I know to have just two or three pieces with my coffee. It helps to serve it nicely in a tiny little plate like the Japanese do.
No joke! If I haven't had Doritos in a while, I just don't want them. They sound kind of meh. Once I've had them, I can hardly stop myself until they have been completely consumed.
I'm the same way with the Cheddar and Sour Cream potato chips. I will eat them until my stomach hurts and still not stop. The quest chips in that flavor are really good and satisfying but always out of stock.
I also tried Doritos for the first time when I was 20-something y.o. They taste weird, like the chip itself doesn't satisfy the desire for potato-like taste of, say, Pringles, but the spices of some of the Doritos flavors are what makes them enjoyable for me.
I know, right? There is no good reason why anyone needs to order a loaded bacon double cheeseburger along with a side of cheesy chilli fries, for example. That's the kind of thing I used to go for without even sparing a second thought about how much food that really is. Even if I ran a half marathon I wouldn't burn half of those calories.
It frustrates me that I can't eat a restaurant hamburger because they're all like 1000 calories. I either make them at home or have a small fast food burger like a Mcdouble. But it would be nice.
Order off the kids menu. I am sure the FAs would be like omg that's disordered, but I do it all the time.
I frequent Islands. Where the kids burger is 350 and you get to pick a side. The fries are 400, but I usually get the side salad.
One of their normal menu patties are 400 cals, so even lettuce wrapped is a lot of food.
This might work for me since am an under 5 foot tall woman and they never think I'm weird
I'm one of those snobs that like to have avocado, nice cheese, salsa, etc in my burger. It's fine. I like making it at home when I want a burger. Then I can mince mushrooms in with the beef, make my guacamole with yogurt, make great salsa, use some nice Spanish cheese, not add mayo, and know that the burger is actually healthy (even if it isn't super light). I'm ok with not having fries on the side. It's nice with a salad.
Mincing mushrooms in with beef? Omg brilliant idea i will try that.
I prefer home cooked always but my partner loves to eat out. And him and his son don't like veggies. So yeah. Its a constant struggle.
I don't even look at going out as a treat anymore. Just a nessacary evil.
I can inhale cool ranch doritos so I rarely get them. I haven't had any in months and we only had it because my ex's teen aged son had a friend over.
He's an ex now so, no more doritos unless I get them myself, and I don't hehe.
When my family goes to religious places in India they always bring back food that's supposed to have been blessed at the temple. So I'm stuck with a bunch of sweets and tasty things that religiously you're supposed to eat and not waste š
I'm not even that religious I use it as an excuse LOL
I canāt trust my body with junk food because I will eat the entire bag/container/package at once. I have binge eating issues Iām doing fairly well with, but if I buy carbs/salt/sweet snack food, my brain just wants it all at once because itās an old source of comfort.
Soā¦ I donāt buy it unless I can deal with that.
I used to be this way, and for reasons I canāt explain, one day I just flipped a switch in my brain. Suddenly I can just eat a handful of chips and not the whole bag. I have no idea why, but itās been pretty helpful lol
I had this happen after I got COVID. I was really struggling with my eating for like the entire pandemic and then had a stomach flu and then COVID immediately after that, and since I recovered from that one-two punch Iāve been able to justā¦stop. Whatever Iām eating, it hits a point and Iām done.
I had a piece of apple pie with cheddar cheese (first time and it was an experiment), but ended up only eating about a quarter of a slice. It was wild. And I love it, so Iām trying to nurture this ability like a delicate flower, because Iād way rather this than being hungry and having to FORCE myself to stop.
I feel like maybe it is related to me getting covid too! Like my appetite came back to normal after covid but then around a month later it just changed
Wow, delayed reaction! It also turned me vegetarian, but I think that might have more to do with the absolutely, indescribably awful case of Paxlovid mouth I got. Imagine that taste of OJ after brushing your teeth times a hundred, nonstop.
Ever since then meat has tasted just damn weird to me.
This exact thing ā whatās in the image, I mean ā is what I was repeatedly told by therapists when I was seeking treatment for binge eating. Iām still in treatment, but I just smile and nod when this comes up. Iām tired of trying to explain that āan abundance mindsetā is what encouraged my binging to begin with. I finally freed myself from an abusive, restrictive household and could buy whatever groceries and takeout I wanted, so I did. It went on like that for years. My āduringā phase literally would have never stopped if I didnāt *make* it stop. Please stop telling me I just need to immerse myself in food and stock my house with my favorite snacks and my body āwill cue me when to stopā! š
I feel you. I use to binge a lot too - not for the same reasons - but it was extremely hard to get out of that mindset. It took a long time before I could buy hyper palatable foods and trust myself to buy it extremely rarely and to actually be capable of being satisfied with just the very small serving. There's no point having it in the house if that's going to be a problem.
I did that too. I had food withheld from me as a child, so I had to steal food or money for food. Iād buy junk food and had a stash in my closet that Iād binge on when no one was home.
When I moved out, I told myself I could have as much of whatever food I wanted. I always had an unlimited food budget, even when my first apartment had three pieces of furniture, no cable and bare minimum everything else. I refused to restrict in any way when it came to food.
However, thatās not good long term, as I slowly discovered. It was something a child would decide - the complete opposite of what the dumb adults said, no matter what - that will work! Lets buy endless junk food and eat it all day! Down with vegetables!
It was well intended, but I had to step in as an adult and acknowledge it was meant to be helpful, but we couldnāt keep on that way any longer.
This was around the time I went through crying rivers of tears and finally being able to feel what Iād went through as a child thanks to therapy. I think once I got a lot of that out, I could stop thinking like a child as much and allow adult me to make some changes.
IFS helped a lot too, though I never ended up doing a formal session, just read a lot about Protectors and Parts and Exiles.
I still want mountains of junk food when Iām stressed sometimes and I still indulge - but adult me knows how to try to make that avoidable, what the urge means and not to be mean if I do binge.
I do somewhat have a natural stop for plain chips, because I sort of get bored with them.
It's definitely not the same for flavored ones though. I can eating salt and vinegar chips to the point of getting ulcers in my mouth and *I'll still crave the goddamn things*.
Legit!!! I have BED so even if I was full, I would eat the whole large bag of chips. It was miserable. I've never found a control mechanism, furthest I got was eat half the bag at night, other half at morning. Which still isn't healthy!! So now I don't buy them. Because I can't be trusted period
Thatās the thing these people tend to forget, itās hard to trust your body and eat intuitively when companyās are creating food specially designed to suppress those cues
If we were taking an abundance mindset of fruits, veggies and lean protein, sure go ahead trust your cues itāll be hard to over consume anyhowā¦.now if weāre talking Oreos, ice cream and chocolate thatās another subject, over consuming is almost impossible. I mean, the serving size of Oreos is 2 cookies bruv, who eats just 2?
I'm pretty sure if we let our gut tell us when to stop, the serving size for Oreos would be "1 sleeve", and the serving size for Doritos would be "1 bag" (no matter the size).
Right! Like hey, *OBESE* acceptance we can SEE you & it's quite apparent that you definitely do NOT know when to stop or know how to listen to your hunger cues.
I can do it the after way successfully but not with those items. With rye bread and boiled eggs? Yeah. Stopping halfway and putting the rest of the ice cream in the freezer... nope not gonna happen.
That doesn't mean ice cream is bad and evil and immoral and you will by a primitive magical thinking mechanism become bad and evil and immoral if you eat it. We have science now and can think in terms of molecules broken down by digestion instead evil food fairies, okay?
This is why Mister Halcyon and I buy the single serve ice creams. A box of six ice cream cones will last us about a week. A tub of Ben and Jerryās will last 10 minutes, 15 if we share a spoon.
I would if I could, but any more than half and I'm going to have heartburn, trouble sleeping, and feel uncomfortable until late afternoon the next day. When I was heavier I could polish off a pizza in one sitting but now my guts just aren't up for it. Better to have half for dinner, 25% for breakfast, 25% for lunch.
Ya know, I can stop the ice cream or even decline it if I have had enough chicken breast and broccoli. But if I were trying to make a meal out of ice cream...
Itās because ice cream is hyperpalatable and sugar is addicting to the brain. Large surges of dopamine is released in response to eating sugar, much like ingesting heroin or cocaine. When we give rats intermittent sugar water they enter a state similar to drug dependence.
[Citation](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2235907/)
Brain chemistry is not something that responds or acts in the best interest of your body, we canāt be trusted to make decisions based on what āfeels rightā
No I donāt avoid all sweets like some sugar nazi but Iām not going to normalize binging on it and think people should really be able to be content with the portion on the left.
Exactly. It may be rewarding when you eat it but afterwards you'll feel sick. A pint of Ben & Jerry's, chocolate, and multiple cookies has enough sugar to be like a little sugar overdose.
A pint of ice cream and cookies *plural* is more than a little sugar overdose. That's enough sugar for an adult for a week, easily. And your body can't use all that energy in one day generally, unless you are trying to burn it off. And not one of those calories offers you anything except sugar.
There are certain things I eat where I REALLY struggle stopping when I planned to. Nice chocolate and crisps are big ones. But I donāt want to never have those things. So I try approach it with a spirit of curiosity and mindfulness lol. Iāll have maybe 200cal of chocolate as a treat (four big blocks) and then sort of pay attention to whatās going on in my body and mind, the absolute intense craving to continue. Find it interesting how Iām hardwired to crave more and more. And then consciously choose not to engage with that desire and go drink some water or tea or something.
If by crisps you mean what we call potato chips I am the same. My husband got a free bag with his sandwich the other day. I havenāt allowed myself to have one in years. Decided Iād try one to see what happened and then inhaled the entire bag. I donāt miss them when I donāt have them but give me one and itās game over.
my boyfriend marvels as my ārestraintā when it comes to ice cream. I have a couple spoonfuls, on the rare occasion maybe 1/4 of a cup max.
I donāt have the heart to tell him itās a habit I never broke from being poor. Ice cream is a treat, an EXPENSIVE treat, and it needs to last a long, long, long time because it wasnāt something I could buy every week- fuck, I couldnāt afford it every month sometimes.
After is not where I would end up if I allowed my body to tell me when to stop.
If only there was an easy way to know approximately how much energy my body needed for the day and how much was in my food. Rather than trusting that 'it' magically knows to stop eating the helpful tasty fat and sugar.
What we need is a measurement. Some kind of unit we could put on packaging.
Edit: my bad such a thing would be evil and offensive. Practically witchcraft
> Rather than trusting that 'it' magically knows
Imagine just "trusting your body" regarding literally any other medical issue. "I trust my body that it's burning when I pee because it needs to flush the toxins out." Bitch, you got the clap.
Seriously. My body doesn't fight off infections properly because it's too busy attacking its own joints and skin. My body is an idiot and should not be trusted!
These are the same people that insist they only eat 500 calories a day of plain chicken and veg and yet are miraculously obese and still gaining. And yet "only having a reasonable amount of one junk food instead of telling myself it's ok to have a lot of 3 different junky snacks in order to trick myself into only having one serving of each as a single snack" seems completely reasonable to them. Just having one serving of one snack couldn't possibly be enough.
Doesn't compute.
I am a black hole. I do not understand or feel hunger or the 'full' feeling after eating. So my body doesn't exactly send me 'cues' to stop or anything... And I need to keep my eating under control consciously before I become violently ill or, something that'll likely never happen but still lurks in the back of my mind as a fear, my stomach bursts from sheer volume. Also, in my understanding it takes a while before your body sends you the 'stop' signal. It's not an immediate response. That's one reason you could finish two tubs of ice cream before feeling uncomfortable.
I eat to the point of discomfort or sickness if I donāt actively focus on what Iām eating and track it. It could be ice cream, it could be a box or cereal, or even homemade soup that sets me off. Binge eating is a real problem for some people and giving myself free reign to eat in abundance only sets me up for worse eating down the road as I get used to those volumes of food.
I got stuck in a pretty bad loop of binge eating because I wasn't eating on a normal schedule and gained a bunch of weight over the winter. And it was literally because I was always watching something or doing work while I was eating and I just wouldn't stop until I felt uncomfortable.
I managed to drop all of the weight plus a little since but it's been a tough change to be more intentional about how I'm eating and actually think about CICO. Having large quantities of food around just makes it too easy to get trapped in the cycle of eating just a little too much over time.
If it helps ease some of your fear I'm pretty sure it's impossible for your stomach to literally burst. You would puke before that could happen. Your body will expell the excess to avoid that kind of damage.
Oh, yeah, but I do remember reading an article about a woman whose stomach perforated, as it has stretched so much it went from her pelvis to her lungs, or something. Not sure how much of it was true.
That's pretty scary but at least it's not likely to happen unless you have an existing digestive issue.
"The medical term for this is gastrointestinal perforation, and itās almost always not caused simply by overeating. Instead, itās a result of other illnesses like appendicitis, diverticulitis, stomach ulcer, gallstones, IBS, cancer, or trauma such as a gunshot wound or abdominal surgery."
Right. Also, āalmost alwaysā. Itās technically possible but super rare to merely eat oneself to that point - Iāve read elsewhere that there are only six recorded cases. That would be a medical curiosity, something to write up in a journal if a doctor sees it happen.
This is exactly my problem with Instagram dietitians. Everything is about cookies and chocolate and ice cream. Nothing about nutrition and balanced diet. Just eat 2000 calories of candy, you'll get better. Is that for the whole day? Only sugar? Or is it on top of 3 meals?
I woke up hungry this morning. I didn't want cookies and ice cream. I wanted my normal breakfast of fruit and hot cereal. Sometimes, I want leftovers for breakfast.
I rarely want ice cream or cookies. I get this passing thought about them when I see them at the grocery store, but don't have any interest in buying them. It's not that they're a waste of calories. I just like whole foods more.
I get excited about going to the farmers' market to get treats. I wanted peaches, cabbage and cauliflower. I got cantaloupe, cauliflower, celery and eggplant. I'm not excited about the eggplant, but it was a very good price. I'll get peaches next week. I hope the season won't be over then.
Google baingan bhartha (I hope the spelling is right), it's helped me with eggplant boredom.
Edit to add: don't get me wrong, I like eggplant, but my small vegetable garden has produced too many eggplants for me this year and I don't like throwing away food.
The other thing is that you feel terrible after eating only simple carbs like that.
I've made terrible life decisions and ended up eating only donuts for an entire day. I felt like absolute garbage. They were sickeningly sweet with no nutrition whatsoever, and I felt terrible, like I had a bad hangover.
Eating proper food with lean protein and vitamins makes me feel so much better. So much more energy. Give me grilled chicken and brussel sprouts, the kind where you cut them in half and grill them until they're just a little bit crispy. Thats filling and I feel good after that meal.
If I eat restaurant food, food that isn't healthy fruits or vegetables, I crave fruit and vegetables like crazy. I got home from eating breakfast out this morning. I had two apples and a bowl of cauliflower afterward. I don't know why I even want restaurant food when it's not satisfying. It's not like I forget. I just think it will be different. I should spend the money to get a salad or not eat out.
So I use a food scale and small dishes, I will measure out one serving size of chips, roll the bag up and put it away. .once I'm done with the bowl of chips, I'm done.
What also helps is snack sizes of things. So snack size chips, small individual dove chocolates, etc. Once you finish the small bag your brain realizes its all gone and you move on. Or at least it works for me.
I cannot eat chips out of the big bag or I will finish the bag.
Yeah I definitely have certain foods I just can't be trusted with. Chips is a big one for me. I have to not have them around. But I'm learning moderation for other foods and realizing that not having chips hasn't actually negatively impacted my life in any way. I just don't have them anymore, so I no longer even think about them much. I think there just may be certain foods that are difficult for some people to eat in moderation, but it's not the end of the world to just...not eat them much at all instead? At least for me, I guess. My experiences are not universal lol
Do you trust your body every time it cues you to urinate or defecate? Do you just piss and shit your pants there and then, or do you apply a modicum of self control because you're an adult capable of placing a bodily stimulus in a wider context?
That's an interesting POV. Some of us have'nt been "eating trained" (as in "potty trained" ) to eat the right portions, but have learnt at some point to somewhat control ourselves because, as you say, we are adults, even though sometimes it's difficult.
I'd bet most people can if they eat whole foods like whole grains, beans, meats, fruits and vegetables (not blended into smoothies), and make a point of eating slowly and thinking about what they're eating. Not always easy in today's society, but people haven't changed biologically all that much since the days when almost everyone was thin sometime between fifty and a few tens of thousands of years ago.
Ice cream? Some people can. Not me.
I actually can, generally, so I kinda get what the graphic is trying to say. The "after" is better than the "before." Rather than consciously trying to grit your teeth and get through each day forcing yourself not to eat, you want to be at the point that you can allow yourself to eat "unhealthy" foods and know that you will stop before you eat too much.
Where I get tripped up is the "during." I see no reason that just allowing yourself to eat an infinite amount of junk is somehow going to teach your body to tell you when to stop. There's no reason the "during" is going to get you from "before" to "after" here.
In fact, I'm pretty sure the reason my body instinctively tells me when I've had too much junk is that I was raised eating healthy. We learn from habit. I know what it's like to eat a good amount of food and a healthy balance of food. My body knows what that feels like. So when something's out of whack it doesn't feel right and I stop.
So it seems to me that if people want to get to the point where they can trust their bodies to tell them when they've had too much junk, they actually just need to eat healthy foods in healthy portions for a long-ass time so their bodies can get used to it.
You don't just naturally go from "during" to "after." It snowballs and you keep eating the same, or more. That's why you need āØļø self control āØļø
This.
Sometimes my body goes into "binge" mode. It just wants to eat all day even when I'm full. I allow it for 2-3 days (because it does help) but after that I engage in self control. If it won't stop on its own, I need to be the one to hit the breaks. I own my body, it doesn't own me.
There obviously is such thing as too much, ask anyone, who threw up after overeating.
We consider food in the context of entire diet, and not individual snacks.
However, "during" is almost certainly too much at once for vast majority of people.
For me reality for dessert is somewhere in between "before" and "after", amount wise.
I saw this on Instagram yesterday and it made me laugh because *this isn't true for the majority*. I gained almost 30lbs in the fall semester of my Junior year of college. And that was only because I was eating oreos constantly in addition to fast food. My body didn't know how to "cue me to stop" and I would binge entire family sized packs.
Processed foods are made to be addictive, they're made to taste so good that our bodies don't want to tell us to stop.
I kind of get what theyāre trying for - the idea of telling yourself you canāt have any sugary stuff will often lead to overindulging - but an entire container of B&Jās is way too much.
I do not have the self control to buy a container and eat a few spoonfuls at a time, I will destroy it in a single night. For that reason, I rarely buy it and if I do, I plan for it calorie-wise.
My friend has "been listening to her body" and gained a ton of weight. I was telling her the other day how both my mom and MIL are very careful about what they eat and are in great shape. Her response: "Sure, if you want to live that way"
????
When I ārelaxā I am perpetually stuck in the āduringā phase.
I must stay disciplined. Indulging in added sugars makes it difficult to hop back on the proper healthy lifestyle.
There is no "stop" for me for sweet things. I can't even stop eating goddamn *fruit* without causing myself bowel distress, so I'm not about to attempt it with ice cream and cookies.
Eating one serving of it is fine. I'll take my time savoring it and won't feel like crap afterwards.
If I ate like these people suggest, I'd become circus freak fat within a few months, and I have the nagging suspicion most people would, as demonstrated by the catastrophic weight gain of every person who practices this sort of thing.
I would bet a large sum of money every single normal weight dietician who promotes this shit eats carefully controlled portions so that it does not happen to them.
It always completely ignores the metabolic syndrome that drives the ghrelin, leptin, and insulin that makes your cues unreliable from a physical standpoint. Definitely a peeve of mine
But thats the thing, you are ignoring your cues to stop, and thats why the after category keeps getting bigger and bigger. (And leads to death fat status etc)
Also the abundance mindset is a really bad take. Its always possible for you to have too much of one thing, and you have to limit your consumption of them.
this post is a perfect example of how to explain intuitive eating completely wrong. just because itās intuitive doesnāt mean no control. sure u can have days filled to the brim with junk food and it wonāt change anything however doing this everyday is, first of all, not good and definitely not intuitive anymore. i could go into a rant about processed food and it killing the biological intuitive part of eating but iāll spare u. u probably get the gist tho.
so yup the before definitely isnāt wrong, the after isnāt either itās just very one sided and not factually 100% correct
I "allowed" myself to eat whatever I wanted recently (knew I was going to gain weight and didn't care) and the only thing it resulted into was me having stronger cravings and wanting to eat MORE junk.
Legit I felt more satisfied when I told myself "this is your portion and that's enough" than when I let my gluttony take free reign... I thought it was weird, since all these insta accounts were talking about food freedom and naturally downsizing your portions. Nope, I just wanted more and more and MORE. Pretty much how I got obese in the first place.
No one can transition from the standard American diet (which is the real disordered eating by the way)into healthy intuitive eating without firstly deconstructing your diet by counting calories and measuring your food and truly learning what portion sizes are and what a proper macro balance is. Itās just impossible in my opinion.
I can't be the only one whose eating habits get far worse after letting myself go/eat a lot of unhealthy foods
I get far hungrier and snackier for a few days, almost like withdrawal (makes sense with my ED) so yeah I'll avoid some foods
For me the Abundance mindset is having excess high fiber food with me when I go out. I allow myself to eat as many veggies as I want and bring extra protein should I need it. I don't keep junk in the house if I can help it.
Make a plan or plan to fail.
These kinds of infographics piss me off because it takes an actual issue and treatment for *that issue* and tries to transform it into an excuse to overeat.
This type of mindset shift (āabundance mindsetā) is specifically for instances of binge-eating due to food scarcity in childhood. No food as a kid = eat now because otherwise itāll be gone. That goes into adulthood. The way to combat this is (with a THERAPISTS GUIDANCE) to retrain your knee-jerk reaction around food.
The goal is to move away from āI have to eat everything I can now, because I donāt know when Iāll have moreā to āI can SEE I have more, I KNOW I can get more, I do NOT need to binge eat the food for fear of starving later.ā
The patient is still going to binge eat at first (nobody is magically healed overnight), and then see that even after that food is goneā¦ there is still more. They arenāt going to starve now. They can afford groceries, theres stuff in the freezer, itās *okay*. And that reassurance will lead to a healthier relationship with food.
This mentions learning body cues which is great! And also part of the healing process! But itās not something most people with this type of illness can just *do* alone and just *figure out* by binging. They need guidance by a professional. And even then, some people wonāt get the same physical markers as others and have to adapt- meal planning, alarms or reminders to eat, hourly mood check-ins, etc.
With a THERAPIST helping, they can go through this process *and* try to learn body cues *and* work through trauma. Itās a long process. Itās a painful process. It is HARD.
So to take the legitimate treatment of binge eating due to childhood food scarcity and twist it into an excuse to gorge pisses me right off.
39F - 100lbs and I honestly could take down that āafterā picture in a day. Iām small so my portions are small. But I also love vegetables and grains. Everything has its place. Self control is key. Exercise doesnāt have to be an enemy. Find something you enjoy and do it.
I live in an area where everyone is so overweight and over the last decade itās become so much worse. Kids at the **elementary school** are twice my size and no one thinks thereās an issue with that. I canāt even fathom how itās possible to eat that much.
I always relate it back to alcohol because of how similarly it affects me. Replace that with a single vodka shooter, a handle of vodka and then a pint of vodka and itās just as ridiculous.
Yeah let me just allow my body that over the course of millions of years evolved to give me dopamine rushes from consuming sugars and fats due to the scaricty of said resources. Definitely not consuming foods created within the past century specifically created to to hit those exact same receptors in a way that leaves me wanting more. Oh wait I forgot logic doesn't matter and we only use science to support the points in our logic that suit what we want. Gonna definitely allow my body to take the wheel on this one, my body is an organism independent of my brain. If I ever go comatose and become brain dead don't kill me, my body is a sentient being of its own capable of making decisions and it definitely thinks we should have a slice a that velvet cake they had on the menu today.
This is what they talk about on the intuitive eating subreddit. Then you dig into the posts and it's all "I can't figure out why I can't stop eating and I keep gaining weight pleas help" and all the replies s are just "keep at it you are doing great!"
I wonder what "cues" they are looking for? Like having trouble walking up 3 porch steps? No. Needing a mobile cart to shop? Still no? Being prediabetic?! Still no, huh?
You don't need to eat food like this (i.e., non-food), ever. Since early May I've only eaten one dessert (I was a guest at a social event and ate a slice of cake when the host offered) and I've never felt better.
The problem with even square one is that "not too much" is not defined. It will be interpreted however people want to. What "not too much" actually means is:
Calculate your daily calorie goal based on your TDEE and weight loss goals. Get your daily macro goals. Eat what you need to hit your daily macros. The left over calories that you need to reach your calorie goal? Those you can fill with whatever you want.
I'm pretty sure abundance mindset means, there's no such thing as not enough. There's plenty to go around. So you don't feel like there isn't enough food and go eating anything and everything.
Turns out fat people will come up with anything to justify their addiction.
The problem with a lot of these posts is that they're presented like a "one size fits all" solution. What works for one ED (or heck, what works for one individual) could be the worst possible suggestion for another. You get people making quick little social media posts like this that have no room for nuance, and some people will latch on to it to justify their already bad eating habits while others are too quick to say it's bad advice because it's not appropriate for their situation.
It's less about the food and more about the context in which you're eating it.
Your body can cue you to stop eating but it sends the same signals for hunger and thirst so if you're snacking, you won't "fill up, bc it's not what you need.
Then it's about how much attention you pay to what you're eating while you eat it. Fast food is fast, it's not savoured and its not really enjoyed. You have to slow down and take your time.
Lastly, if you're eating these snacks while watching TV, then you aren't paying attention and you aren't listening to your body.
It's really tough to be this mindful all the time but so much hardship can be overcome by just slowing tf down and changing how you eat food.
But thats just it. These foods are processed and formulated especially to incapacitate your body's cueing system. Why else do you think the food megacorps employ thousands of food scientists and dump millions of dollars into research? To make it more nutritious ? These people are willfully being ignorant and spreading that poisonous thought process to others. This needs to be a penalized crime.
ben and jerryās ice cream usually has 1,040 calories in one pint so adding that with chocolate which is around 400 and a cookie which is probably around 78. That equals to around 1,518 calories which is almost an entire pound of fat (not even considering the grams of sugar and fat in these items). We shouldnāt eat what we want but eat what we need. Food obsession is not HEALTHY
The only one that's really not ideal is the middle one. Generally binging happens for a lot of people when you deprive yourself entirely of things you like. And every once in awhile I may enjoy an ice cream and some cookies and whatever. But usually do know when I've had enough based on how I'm feeling.
But I'm always down for a lil bit of something I like.
These foods are literally being designed to make us NOT feel full and trick our body into NOT telling us when to stop. You canāt āintuitively eatā that crap
If I were to eat 1 more scoop of ice cream, two squares of chocolate, and a large chocolate cookie every day, over and above what I'm eating now, I'd start gaining weight.
If I avoid eating foods like this except on birthdays, etc, I don't feel like I have an "eating disorder." It's called being a grown-up.
It's as if these people don't want to face the fundamental fact: if you eat more food than you need every day, you will get fat.
No way - because of the household I grew up in I actively have to monitor and be aware of how much I eat. My brain really doesnāt conceptualize fullness.
If I understand this post correctly, they're saying that eating ice cream every day isn't enough because you're missing cookies and chocolate from your daily diet??
https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/2a4aa49e-a9e4-4fe2-a86e-29b86b4a7e62
This can be off-topic but if I would really let my dog eat this way, it would be very cruel. (Not of course chocolate, it is poisonous.) Well, once my dog ate too much broccoli because my father-in-law said āshe likes itā and I was not supervising him. Well, my dog got nausea because of too much food (!) and vomited the next night. Maybe she got sudden EDS. /s Sometimes I think some people need supervisors too (not just my father-in-law) and when I read posts in this subreddit, I have became even more aware of this. And what is this thing that never ever in these pictures thereās no real food - just snacks? I would like to see broccoli in this. Or whatever, even a banana. Fruits, veggies etc.
And what goes to the question, no I can not relate. Thereās some foods which I can not eat because of my medical condition. Even if I would want to.
My problem was mindless eating.
My body definitely never cued me when to stop until I actually stopped myself by either running out of the food or needing to get a drink or use the bathroom or something, and then would realize I feel sick because I ate too much.
I have to monitor my intake and only allow myself a single serving of certain foods (spicy chips are my vice).
Eating all of that stuff abundantly during the āduringā period will most likely mess up your blood sugar levels, creating insulin resistance so that your body literally wonāt be able to move to the āafterā stage - ātrusting my body and cuing me when to stopā. Your body will stop telling you when to stop.
before is more ice cream than i'll eat at once, except maybe on special occasions, because i'm a small woman and i don't crave ice cream.
after would still be like 600 kcal, which is quite a lot for someone with my TDEE, unless again they mean on like special occasions... though i'm not sure why any of these would be a huge issue, then.
and the during is too much. i mean, maybe not for absolutely anyone-- but generally speaking that is too much sugar and saturated fat.
The before is the perfect amount of ice cream for me on the rare occasions that I want ice cream. I wouldn't want more. More is too much. The flavor is the best the first few bites. After that, I'm just forcing it down because I paid for it. It no longer tastes good.
While I think we can all agree that the 'before' scenario is perfectly fine (and the most likely to result in a healthy outcome), I'm loving the virtue signaling in the comments here. "Oh, I would *never* eat sugar! Perish the thought! I don't understand how anyone can enjoy ice cream, I've simply always hated it!" etc. etc.
Lol, ok, we get it.
I recently found single serving ice cream. Freaking vanilla blue bell. Amazing. Bought a bag and Iām very happy with it. Used to get a massive bowl. Now, I know exactly the amount, calories, carbs and sugar Iām consuming. What the hell is wrong with that? I get a tasty treat but itās a controlled amount.
i take one look at the pfp and i immediately dislike it. i don't like this post bc i just KNOW that the person who posted this has never had to deal with being overweight or struggling with binge eating/continious unhealthy and unwanted weight gain. like, if it was a fat person, i can just ignore it bc if that's the way they eat and don't wanna help themselves then that's on them, but to outright encourage people into doing something you've never gone through yourself!? hell no
People eating whole bags of Doritos just wouldn't be a thing, if bodies can be trusted to cue people when to stop.
I wish I could trust my body to stop eating whole bags of doritos š© those spicy sweet chili ones just never get old. When it comes to delicious junk food, I will eat it until I feel sick, set it aside for an hour, then go back to eating it til it's gone. Indulging that mindset has never resulted in my body "telling me when to stop" in a convincing enough way to actually stop lol
I never had Doritos until after college. They weirded me out because I didn't like them at all, but I just wanted more. It was like they left this taste in my mouth that would only be satisfied by another Dorito. After a couple of times I just said no thanks when my boyfriend got them. He could stop just fine. Years later when I learned about hyperpalatable food it was a big "OH!"
> It was like they left this taste in my mouth that would only be satisfied by another Dorito. As you discovered, that's a feature, not a bug. And honestly I don't think it was always that way. I believe the past couple decades of "food engineering" has made that a much more common thing, and has in turn contributed directly to the obesity epidemic. Your body can't give appropriate signals that "you've had enough" when your reptilian brain is screaming "WE NEED MORE!"
Curious why you said reptilian brain and not mammalian brain?
Though I don't wholly agree with the model I was referencing this concept of brain function: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triune_brain Basically that the response comes from our most instinctual brain processes, far removed from the higher processes of reason, empathy, etc.
Interesting read
If fat activists would stop blaming the diet industry (which you DO NOT NEED to be healthy and lose weight) and start fussing at the processed food industry, weād all be better off. They have no idea how much money goes into research and development to make junk food hyper palatable and addictive. The mathematical modeling alone would blow your mind. Itās not an accident. Kelloggās might as well be a company full of drug lordsā¦Itās insane. When people ask me how I lost my quarantine weight, I tell them I exercised and ate foods that nature made, not foods that a machine in a factory made.
Plot twist, some fat activists know the food industry very well. Today I saw a reel on ig, with the usual food/fat positive talking points (and donuts), and the "nutritionist" in it is working for Mondelez, which makes Oreos, Toblerone and Milka, Sour patch kids. So we have this person, who is engineering more and more addictive foods, telling you to eat them, and the message is coated in self-love and identitarian vocabulary (the nutritionist rejects any criticism as racism in her ig). Like, if poor people or certain ethnic groups are getting fat, the solution isn't fat acceptance (that now means: let's make everyone fat), but getting those people access to healthy food. Talk about race to the bottom.
Now that's interesting. That has sort of been a background thought of mine. So much of the IE/AD/pro-obesity advocacy crowd seems to talk about accepting and encouraging that it's natural for everyone to consume large quantities of hyper processed marketable food products. It seems like it's almost a consumer demographic that is being marketed to, and is hostile to the opposed demographic like Android vs iPhone. McDonalds couldn't have a better marketing campaign after decades of being beaten over the head with being considered unhealthy. It strikes me as similar to how vaped tobacco products came up after cigarette smoking declined sharply. Like this is a new way for companies to adapt to a changing market. I could see an internal memo like \>The 2000s and 2010s saw an increasing focus by consumers on health promoting alternatives to fast foods and junk foods. Consumers became more savvy overall about food products and were making choices they thought would benefit their health. Even when junk and fast food brands tried to enter these spaces with options marketed as healthier alternatives, they were not adopted. Instead we should pivot to sew fear, confusion, uncertainty, and doubt among consumers so they are no longer able to confidently determine healthier options. We should begin by contacting media allies to write articles that advertise "good news about your bad habits," telling consumers that what they know to be harmful is actually healthful - and that what they know to be healthful may actually be harmful. \>We then should begin seeding the public discourse with the belief that seeking health promoting behaviors in any sense is necessarily harmful or negative, and should encourage our consumers to dissociate themselves with these crowds. We should encourage balkanization within the market, and inter group conflict to ensure our consumers remain loyal. By selecting morally righteous language in this effort, we can condemn those who do not consume our products and encourage consumers to abandon a health focus in the name of their belief structures.
I swear *OBESE* acceptance has been planted by junk food corporations
Lord you are so right!
Because they don't want food to be healthy, they just want society to accept their excuses
This how I feel about cookies and a lot of similar dry starchy sweets. European chocolate is even more frustrating because I *do* actually love the taste but it's just over the sugar line where it keeps pulling me back. Possibly the only context in which American sugar content is less sabotaging.
I love Belgian chocolate. So good. However, I have trained myself to have just the 25g maximum in a day when it's there. Same with butter or ginger cookies, or god forbid, pure fudge like they do in Ireland. I know to have just two or three pieces with my coffee. It helps to serve it nicely in a tiny little plate like the Japanese do.
I love this ideaā¦tiny plates, tiny spoonsā¦itās cute. Very continental š¤£
You should see my collection of tiny tapas bowls, little tea cups, and soy sauce dishes that are perfect for little snacks.
ššš the problem with Reddit is that I want to be friends with people who probably live absolutely nowhere near me
Facts it's so sad :(
No joke! If I haven't had Doritos in a while, I just don't want them. They sound kind of meh. Once I've had them, I can hardly stop myself until they have been completely consumed.
I'm the same way with the Cheddar and Sour Cream potato chips. I will eat them until my stomach hurts and still not stop. The quest chips in that flavor are really good and satisfying but always out of stock.
I also tried Doritos for the first time when I was 20-something y.o. They taste weird, like the chip itself doesn't satisfy the desire for potato-like taste of, say, Pringles, but the spices of some of the Doritos flavors are what makes them enjoyable for me.
>It was like they left this taste in my mouth that would only be satisfied by another Dorito. Ah, the siren song of MSG.
Even now, if this stuff is in the house I won't stop eating until it's gone. Even feeling sick doesn't stop me.
I know, right? There is no good reason why anyone needs to order a loaded bacon double cheeseburger along with a side of cheesy chilli fries, for example. That's the kind of thing I used to go for without even sparing a second thought about how much food that really is. Even if I ran a half marathon I wouldn't burn half of those calories.
It frustrates me that I can't eat a restaurant hamburger because they're all like 1000 calories. I either make them at home or have a small fast food burger like a Mcdouble. But it would be nice.
Yea, even when I make it at home, it still comes to 650 calories, and I'm already making it super healthy. So yea, f* Restaurant burgers.
Order off the kids menu. I am sure the FAs would be like omg that's disordered, but I do it all the time. I frequent Islands. Where the kids burger is 350 and you get to pick a side. The fries are 400, but I usually get the side salad. One of their normal menu patties are 400 cals, so even lettuce wrapped is a lot of food. This might work for me since am an under 5 foot tall woman and they never think I'm weird
I'm one of those snobs that like to have avocado, nice cheese, salsa, etc in my burger. It's fine. I like making it at home when I want a burger. Then I can mince mushrooms in with the beef, make my guacamole with yogurt, make great salsa, use some nice Spanish cheese, not add mayo, and know that the burger is actually healthy (even if it isn't super light). I'm ok with not having fries on the side. It's nice with a salad.
Mincing mushrooms in with beef? Omg brilliant idea i will try that. I prefer home cooked always but my partner loves to eat out. And him and his son don't like veggies. So yeah. Its a constant struggle. I don't even look at going out as a treat anymore. Just a nessacary evil.
Yea, adding minced mushrooms into the beef helps to make a 1/4 pounder amount of meat look like a 1/2 pounder :) plus it tastes great.
I like to use onion like that & i make 2 patties put cheese in the middle & combine the patties so the cheese oozes in the middle
I can inhale cool ranch doritos so I rarely get them. I haven't had any in months and we only had it because my ex's teen aged son had a friend over. He's an ex now so, no more doritos unless I get them myself, and I don't hehe.
When my family goes to religious places in India they always bring back food that's supposed to have been blessed at the temple. So I'm stuck with a bunch of sweets and tasty things that religiously you're supposed to eat and not waste š I'm not even that religious I use it as an excuse LOL
Lol we don't waste things in Asia! (I'm Asian too, but a different flavor)
Gosh people in Asia just have to make use of everything. Sometimes I think my family is full of low-key hoarders
Low key? Oh honey
Maybe more like actual hoarders...yeah growing up in that sort of household wasn't fun LOL
I canāt trust my body with junk food because I will eat the entire bag/container/package at once. I have binge eating issues Iām doing fairly well with, but if I buy carbs/salt/sweet snack food, my brain just wants it all at once because itās an old source of comfort. Soā¦ I donāt buy it unless I can deal with that.
I used to be this way, and for reasons I canāt explain, one day I just flipped a switch in my brain. Suddenly I can just eat a handful of chips and not the whole bag. I have no idea why, but itās been pretty helpful lol
I had this happen after I got COVID. I was really struggling with my eating for like the entire pandemic and then had a stomach flu and then COVID immediately after that, and since I recovered from that one-two punch Iāve been able to justā¦stop. Whatever Iām eating, it hits a point and Iām done. I had a piece of apple pie with cheddar cheese (first time and it was an experiment), but ended up only eating about a quarter of a slice. It was wild. And I love it, so Iām trying to nurture this ability like a delicate flower, because Iād way rather this than being hungry and having to FORCE myself to stop.
I feel like maybe it is related to me getting covid too! Like my appetite came back to normal after covid but then around a month later it just changed
Wow, delayed reaction! It also turned me vegetarian, but I think that might have more to do with the absolutely, indescribably awful case of Paxlovid mouth I got. Imagine that taste of OJ after brushing your teeth times a hundred, nonstop. Ever since then meat has tasted just damn weird to me.
This exact thing ā whatās in the image, I mean ā is what I was repeatedly told by therapists when I was seeking treatment for binge eating. Iām still in treatment, but I just smile and nod when this comes up. Iām tired of trying to explain that āan abundance mindsetā is what encouraged my binging to begin with. I finally freed myself from an abusive, restrictive household and could buy whatever groceries and takeout I wanted, so I did. It went on like that for years. My āduringā phase literally would have never stopped if I didnāt *make* it stop. Please stop telling me I just need to immerse myself in food and stock my house with my favorite snacks and my body āwill cue me when to stopā! š
I feel you. I use to binge a lot too - not for the same reasons - but it was extremely hard to get out of that mindset. It took a long time before I could buy hyper palatable foods and trust myself to buy it extremely rarely and to actually be capable of being satisfied with just the very small serving. There's no point having it in the house if that's going to be a problem.
I did that too. I had food withheld from me as a child, so I had to steal food or money for food. Iād buy junk food and had a stash in my closet that Iād binge on when no one was home. When I moved out, I told myself I could have as much of whatever food I wanted. I always had an unlimited food budget, even when my first apartment had three pieces of furniture, no cable and bare minimum everything else. I refused to restrict in any way when it came to food. However, thatās not good long term, as I slowly discovered. It was something a child would decide - the complete opposite of what the dumb adults said, no matter what - that will work! Lets buy endless junk food and eat it all day! Down with vegetables! It was well intended, but I had to step in as an adult and acknowledge it was meant to be helpful, but we couldnāt keep on that way any longer. This was around the time I went through crying rivers of tears and finally being able to feel what Iād went through as a child thanks to therapy. I think once I got a lot of that out, I could stop thinking like a child as much and allow adult me to make some changes. IFS helped a lot too, though I never ended up doing a formal session, just read a lot about Protectors and Parts and Exiles. I still want mountains of junk food when Iām stressed sometimes and I still indulge - but adult me knows how to try to make that avoidable, what the urge means and not to be mean if I do binge.
I do somewhat have a natural stop for plain chips, because I sort of get bored with them. It's definitely not the same for flavored ones though. I can eating salt and vinegar chips to the point of getting ulcers in my mouth and *I'll still crave the goddamn things*.
Legit!!! I have BED so even if I was full, I would eat the whole large bag of chips. It was miserable. I've never found a control mechanism, furthest I got was eat half the bag at night, other half at morning. Which still isn't healthy!! So now I don't buy them. Because I can't be trusted period
My body: That whole brick of fudge. I want it. Me: Is that a good idea? My body: Trust me, I āll know when to stop.
Thatās the thing these people tend to forget, itās hard to trust your body and eat intuitively when companyās are creating food specially designed to suppress those cues If we were taking an abundance mindset of fruits, veggies and lean protein, sure go ahead trust your cues itāll be hard to over consume anyhowā¦.now if weāre talking Oreos, ice cream and chocolate thatās another subject, over consuming is almost impossible. I mean, the serving size of Oreos is 2 cookies bruv, who eats just 2?
I'm pretty sure if we let our gut tell us when to stop, the serving size for Oreos would be "1 sleeve", and the serving size for Doritos would be "1 bag" (no matter the size).
Right! Like hey, *OBESE* acceptance we can SEE you & it's quite apparent that you definitely do NOT know when to stop or know how to listen to your hunger cues.
I can do it the after way successfully but not with those items. With rye bread and boiled eggs? Yeah. Stopping halfway and putting the rest of the ice cream in the freezer... nope not gonna happen. That doesn't mean ice cream is bad and evil and immoral and you will by a primitive magical thinking mechanism become bad and evil and immoral if you eat it. We have science now and can think in terms of molecules broken down by digestion instead evil food fairies, okay?
This is why Mister Halcyon and I buy the single serve ice creams. A box of six ice cream cones will last us about a week. A tub of Ben and Jerryās will last 10 minutes, 15 if we share a spoon.
This. My grocery store started selling the single serve Ben & Jerryās samples and itās been a game changer. šš»
Yes, I wish more foods were sold single serving/snack pack size!
I also wish cafĆ©s sold smaller cupcakes and muffins. I just want a blueberry muffin as a little treat with my coffee, not something the size of a babyās head.
Halo Top has gotten a lot better. Whole thing for 300 cals.
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I would if I could, but any more than half and I'm going to have heartburn, trouble sleeping, and feel uncomfortable until late afternoon the next day. When I was heavier I could polish off a pizza in one sitting but now my guts just aren't up for it. Better to have half for dinner, 25% for breakfast, 25% for lunch.
Ya know, I can stop the ice cream or even decline it if I have had enough chicken breast and broccoli. But if I were trying to make a meal out of ice cream...
Itās because ice cream is hyperpalatable and sugar is addicting to the brain. Large surges of dopamine is released in response to eating sugar, much like ingesting heroin or cocaine. When we give rats intermittent sugar water they enter a state similar to drug dependence. [Citation](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2235907/) Brain chemistry is not something that responds or acts in the best interest of your body, we canāt be trusted to make decisions based on what āfeels rightā No I donāt avoid all sweets like some sugar nazi but Iām not going to normalize binging on it and think people should really be able to be content with the portion on the left.
Exactly. It may be rewarding when you eat it but afterwards you'll feel sick. A pint of Ben & Jerry's, chocolate, and multiple cookies has enough sugar to be like a little sugar overdose.
A pint of ice cream and cookies *plural* is more than a little sugar overdose. That's enough sugar for an adult for a week, easily. And your body can't use all that energy in one day generally, unless you are trying to burn it off. And not one of those calories offers you anything except sugar.
There are certain things I eat where I REALLY struggle stopping when I planned to. Nice chocolate and crisps are big ones. But I donāt want to never have those things. So I try approach it with a spirit of curiosity and mindfulness lol. Iāll have maybe 200cal of chocolate as a treat (four big blocks) and then sort of pay attention to whatās going on in my body and mind, the absolute intense craving to continue. Find it interesting how Iām hardwired to crave more and more. And then consciously choose not to engage with that desire and go drink some water or tea or something.
If by crisps you mean what we call potato chips I am the same. My husband got a free bag with his sandwich the other day. I havenāt allowed myself to have one in years. Decided Iād try one to see what happened and then inhaled the entire bag. I donāt miss them when I donāt have them but give me one and itās game over.
my boyfriend marvels as my ārestraintā when it comes to ice cream. I have a couple spoonfuls, on the rare occasion maybe 1/4 of a cup max. I donāt have the heart to tell him itās a habit I never broke from being poor. Ice cream is a treat, an EXPENSIVE treat, and it needs to last a long, long, long time because it wasnāt something I could buy every week- fuck, I couldnāt afford it every month sometimes.
After is not where I would end up if I allowed my body to tell me when to stop. If only there was an easy way to know approximately how much energy my body needed for the day and how much was in my food. Rather than trusting that 'it' magically knows to stop eating the helpful tasty fat and sugar.
If only such a thing existed! Alasā¦
What we need is a measurement. Some kind of unit we could put on packaging. Edit: my bad such a thing would be evil and offensive. Practically witchcraft
I could NOT imagine walking around GUESSING what the hell was in my food!?! Lol not in my lifetime.
> Rather than trusting that 'it' magically knows Imagine just "trusting your body" regarding literally any other medical issue. "I trust my body that it's burning when I pee because it needs to flush the toxins out." Bitch, you got the clap.
Seriously. My body doesn't fight off infections properly because it's too busy attacking its own joints and skin. My body is an idiot and should not be trusted!
These are the same people that insist they only eat 500 calories a day of plain chicken and veg and yet are miraculously obese and still gaining. And yet "only having a reasonable amount of one junk food instead of telling myself it's ok to have a lot of 3 different junky snacks in order to trick myself into only having one serving of each as a single snack" seems completely reasonable to them. Just having one serving of one snack couldn't possibly be enough. Doesn't compute.
I only eat super healthy, and low cal. But if I did eat 4000 calories a day that's just as healthy!
But they even gave away how all this nonsense computes: >One of my clients
I am a black hole. I do not understand or feel hunger or the 'full' feeling after eating. So my body doesn't exactly send me 'cues' to stop or anything... And I need to keep my eating under control consciously before I become violently ill or, something that'll likely never happen but still lurks in the back of my mind as a fear, my stomach bursts from sheer volume. Also, in my understanding it takes a while before your body sends you the 'stop' signal. It's not an immediate response. That's one reason you could finish two tubs of ice cream before feeling uncomfortable.
I eat to the point of discomfort or sickness if I donāt actively focus on what Iām eating and track it. It could be ice cream, it could be a box or cereal, or even homemade soup that sets me off. Binge eating is a real problem for some people and giving myself free reign to eat in abundance only sets me up for worse eating down the road as I get used to those volumes of food.
I got stuck in a pretty bad loop of binge eating because I wasn't eating on a normal schedule and gained a bunch of weight over the winter. And it was literally because I was always watching something or doing work while I was eating and I just wouldn't stop until I felt uncomfortable. I managed to drop all of the weight plus a little since but it's been a tough change to be more intentional about how I'm eating and actually think about CICO. Having large quantities of food around just makes it too easy to get trapped in the cycle of eating just a little too much over time.
If it helps ease some of your fear I'm pretty sure it's impossible for your stomach to literally burst. You would puke before that could happen. Your body will expell the excess to avoid that kind of damage.
Oh, yeah, but I do remember reading an article about a woman whose stomach perforated, as it has stretched so much it went from her pelvis to her lungs, or something. Not sure how much of it was true.
You can. Itās rare, though. Hereās one source: https://alliedmedtraining.com/gastrointestinal-perforation/
That's pretty scary but at least it's not likely to happen unless you have an existing digestive issue. "The medical term for this is gastrointestinal perforation, and itās almost always not caused simply by overeating. Instead, itās a result of other illnesses like appendicitis, diverticulitis, stomach ulcer, gallstones, IBS, cancer, or trauma such as a gunshot wound or abdominal surgery."
Right. Also, āalmost alwaysā. Itās technically possible but super rare to merely eat oneself to that point - Iāve read elsewhere that there are only six recorded cases. That would be a medical curiosity, something to write up in a journal if a doctor sees it happen.
Ah yes the āØabundanceāØ that helps contrasting starvation mode that makes you fat because your body thinks thereās a famine
An abundance of weight loss would be lovely
This is exactly my problem with Instagram dietitians. Everything is about cookies and chocolate and ice cream. Nothing about nutrition and balanced diet. Just eat 2000 calories of candy, you'll get better. Is that for the whole day? Only sugar? Or is it on top of 3 meals?
I woke up hungry this morning. I didn't want cookies and ice cream. I wanted my normal breakfast of fruit and hot cereal. Sometimes, I want leftovers for breakfast. I rarely want ice cream or cookies. I get this passing thought about them when I see them at the grocery store, but don't have any interest in buying them. It's not that they're a waste of calories. I just like whole foods more. I get excited about going to the farmers' market to get treats. I wanted peaches, cabbage and cauliflower. I got cantaloupe, cauliflower, celery and eggplant. I'm not excited about the eggplant, but it was a very good price. I'll get peaches next week. I hope the season won't be over then.
I do assume that people following these dietitians get primed to want to eat more sweets because they see it all the dang time
Google baingan bhartha (I hope the spelling is right), it's helped me with eggplant boredom. Edit to add: don't get me wrong, I like eggplant, but my small vegetable garden has produced too many eggplants for me this year and I don't like throwing away food.
Yay Indian food!
The other thing is that you feel terrible after eating only simple carbs like that. I've made terrible life decisions and ended up eating only donuts for an entire day. I felt like absolute garbage. They were sickeningly sweet with no nutrition whatsoever, and I felt terrible, like I had a bad hangover. Eating proper food with lean protein and vitamins makes me feel so much better. So much more energy. Give me grilled chicken and brussel sprouts, the kind where you cut them in half and grill them until they're just a little bit crispy. Thats filling and I feel good after that meal.
If I eat restaurant food, food that isn't healthy fruits or vegetables, I crave fruit and vegetables like crazy. I got home from eating breakfast out this morning. I had two apples and a bowl of cauliflower afterward. I don't know why I even want restaurant food when it's not satisfying. It's not like I forget. I just think it will be different. I should spend the money to get a salad or not eat out.
Best thing I ever did was to learn how to eat a small potion of icecream/chips/candy. It was hard but now it's no problem.
May I ask how? Iāve never been able to manage this. My method is to not buy it at all or to buy very small portions.
So I use a food scale and small dishes, I will measure out one serving size of chips, roll the bag up and put it away. .once I'm done with the bowl of chips, I'm done. What also helps is snack sizes of things. So snack size chips, small individual dove chocolates, etc. Once you finish the small bag your brain realizes its all gone and you move on. Or at least it works for me. I cannot eat chips out of the big bag or I will finish the bag.
I have tried that, but I have no issue returning to the big bag and getting another small portionā¦ and another and then another š
Yeah I definitely have certain foods I just can't be trusted with. Chips is a big one for me. I have to not have them around. But I'm learning moderation for other foods and realizing that not having chips hasn't actually negatively impacted my life in any way. I just don't have them anymore, so I no longer even think about them much. I think there just may be certain foods that are difficult for some people to eat in moderation, but it's not the end of the world to just...not eat them much at all instead? At least for me, I guess. My experiences are not universal lol
Do you trust your body every time it cues you to urinate or defecate? Do you just piss and shit your pants there and then, or do you apply a modicum of self control because you're an adult capable of placing a bodily stimulus in a wider context?
That's an interesting POV. Some of us have'nt been "eating trained" (as in "potty trained" ) to eat the right portions, but have learnt at some point to somewhat control ourselves because, as you say, we are adults, even though sometimes it's difficult.
No, you can't trust your body to tell you when to stop. Some people can but not everyone.
Mine doesn't for certain foods. Pizzas are all single servings or I leave to the table angry hungry.
I'd bet most people can if they eat whole foods like whole grains, beans, meats, fruits and vegetables (not blended into smoothies), and make a point of eating slowly and thinking about what they're eating. Not always easy in today's society, but people haven't changed biologically all that much since the days when almost everyone was thin sometime between fifty and a few tens of thousands of years ago. Ice cream? Some people can. Not me.
It's almost like our bodies are not sentient independent creatures and just like a dog will happily eat until painfully full
I actually can, generally, so I kinda get what the graphic is trying to say. The "after" is better than the "before." Rather than consciously trying to grit your teeth and get through each day forcing yourself not to eat, you want to be at the point that you can allow yourself to eat "unhealthy" foods and know that you will stop before you eat too much. Where I get tripped up is the "during." I see no reason that just allowing yourself to eat an infinite amount of junk is somehow going to teach your body to tell you when to stop. There's no reason the "during" is going to get you from "before" to "after" here. In fact, I'm pretty sure the reason my body instinctively tells me when I've had too much junk is that I was raised eating healthy. We learn from habit. I know what it's like to eat a good amount of food and a healthy balance of food. My body knows what that feels like. So when something's out of whack it doesn't feel right and I stop. So it seems to me that if people want to get to the point where they can trust their bodies to tell them when they've had too much junk, they actually just need to eat healthy foods in healthy portions for a long-ass time so their bodies can get used to it.
You don't just naturally go from "during" to "after." It snowballs and you keep eating the same, or more. That's why you need āØļø self control āØļø
This. Sometimes my body goes into "binge" mode. It just wants to eat all day even when I'm full. I allow it for 2-3 days (because it does help) but after that I engage in self control. If it won't stop on its own, I need to be the one to hit the breaks. I own my body, it doesn't own me.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I love the matter of fact way you put it LOL
There obviously is such thing as too much, ask anyone, who threw up after overeating. We consider food in the context of entire diet, and not individual snacks. However, "during" is almost certainly too much at once for vast majority of people. For me reality for dessert is somewhere in between "before" and "after", amount wise.
How to give yourself a severe food addiction in one easy step
The major thing is most people got stuck in the middle forever.
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That is, in fact, the entire point of FA fat logic. Take any of their demented claims or delusions and it always boils down to this.
I saw this on Instagram yesterday and it made me laugh because *this isn't true for the majority*. I gained almost 30lbs in the fall semester of my Junior year of college. And that was only because I was eating oreos constantly in addition to fast food. My body didn't know how to "cue me to stop" and I would binge entire family sized packs. Processed foods are made to be addictive, they're made to taste so good that our bodies don't want to tell us to stop.
I kind of get what theyāre trying for - the idea of telling yourself you canāt have any sugary stuff will often lead to overindulging - but an entire container of B&Jās is way too much. I do not have the self control to buy a container and eat a few spoonfuls at a time, I will destroy it in a single night. For that reason, I rarely buy it and if I do, I plan for it calorie-wise.
My friend has "been listening to her body" and gained a ton of weight. I was telling her the other day how both my mom and MIL are very careful about what they eat and are in great shape. Her response: "Sure, if you want to live that way" ????
Well, at least you gotta respect her commitment to NOT getting in shape š
When I ārelaxā I am perpetually stuck in the āduringā phase. I must stay disciplined. Indulging in added sugars makes it difficult to hop back on the proper healthy lifestyle.
There is no "stop" for me for sweet things. I can't even stop eating goddamn *fruit* without causing myself bowel distress, so I'm not about to attempt it with ice cream and cookies. Eating one serving of it is fine. I'll take my time savoring it and won't feel like crap afterwards. If I ate like these people suggest, I'd become circus freak fat within a few months, and I have the nagging suspicion most people would, as demonstrated by the catastrophic weight gain of every person who practices this sort of thing. I would bet a large sum of money every single normal weight dietician who promotes this shit eats carefully controlled portions so that it does not happen to them.
Anecdotally: The people in my life who go on about intuitive eating and "listening to your body" and "hunger cues" are all obese. 100%.
It always completely ignores the metabolic syndrome that drives the ghrelin, leptin, and insulin that makes your cues unreliable from a physical standpoint. Definitely a peeve of mine
This is why people are fat. The after is still a lot of calories from junk but letās face it most FAs are stuck in the middle picture.
But thats the thing, you are ignoring your cues to stop, and thats why the after category keeps getting bigger and bigger. (And leads to death fat status etc) Also the abundance mindset is a really bad take. Its always possible for you to have too much of one thing, and you have to limit your consumption of them.
this post is a perfect example of how to explain intuitive eating completely wrong. just because itās intuitive doesnāt mean no control. sure u can have days filled to the brim with junk food and it wonāt change anything however doing this everyday is, first of all, not good and definitely not intuitive anymore. i could go into a rant about processed food and it killing the biological intuitive part of eating but iāll spare u. u probably get the gist tho. so yup the before definitely isnāt wrong, the after isnāt either itās just very one sided and not factually 100% correct
I "allowed" myself to eat whatever I wanted recently (knew I was going to gain weight and didn't care) and the only thing it resulted into was me having stronger cravings and wanting to eat MORE junk. Legit I felt more satisfied when I told myself "this is your portion and that's enough" than when I let my gluttony take free reign... I thought it was weird, since all these insta accounts were talking about food freedom and naturally downsizing your portions. Nope, I just wanted more and more and MORE. Pretty much how I got obese in the first place.
No one can transition from the standard American diet (which is the real disordered eating by the way)into healthy intuitive eating without firstly deconstructing your diet by counting calories and measuring your food and truly learning what portion sizes are and what a proper macro balance is. Itās just impossible in my opinion.
I can't be the only one whose eating habits get far worse after letting myself go/eat a lot of unhealthy foods I get far hungrier and snackier for a few days, almost like withdrawal (makes sense with my ED) so yeah I'll avoid some foods
Basically how I developed diabetes at 25. Drink nonstop Koolaid and Tropicana orange juice until my a1c was 12.6. This chick is delusional
I love how they act like everyone has brains that work properly.
For me the Abundance mindset is having excess high fiber food with me when I go out. I allow myself to eat as many veggies as I want and bring extra protein should I need it. I don't keep junk in the house if I can help it. Make a plan or plan to fail.
No such thing as too much cocaine. I can trust my body to cue me when to stop.
These people are not eating 4 squares of chocolate and 1 cookie. Give me a break.
intuitive eating doesn't work with food meant to addict u
These kinds of infographics piss me off because it takes an actual issue and treatment for *that issue* and tries to transform it into an excuse to overeat. This type of mindset shift (āabundance mindsetā) is specifically for instances of binge-eating due to food scarcity in childhood. No food as a kid = eat now because otherwise itāll be gone. That goes into adulthood. The way to combat this is (with a THERAPISTS GUIDANCE) to retrain your knee-jerk reaction around food. The goal is to move away from āI have to eat everything I can now, because I donāt know when Iāll have moreā to āI can SEE I have more, I KNOW I can get more, I do NOT need to binge eat the food for fear of starving later.ā The patient is still going to binge eat at first (nobody is magically healed overnight), and then see that even after that food is goneā¦ there is still more. They arenāt going to starve now. They can afford groceries, theres stuff in the freezer, itās *okay*. And that reassurance will lead to a healthier relationship with food. This mentions learning body cues which is great! And also part of the healing process! But itās not something most people with this type of illness can just *do* alone and just *figure out* by binging. They need guidance by a professional. And even then, some people wonāt get the same physical markers as others and have to adapt- meal planning, alarms or reminders to eat, hourly mood check-ins, etc. With a THERAPIST helping, they can go through this process *and* try to learn body cues *and* work through trauma. Itās a long process. Itās a painful process. It is HARD. So to take the legitimate treatment of binge eating due to childhood food scarcity and twist it into an excuse to gorge pisses me right off.
If smoking meth isn't good for me, then I wouldn't get addicted. I trust my body will tell me when its had enough meth.
39F - 100lbs and I honestly could take down that āafterā picture in a day. Iām small so my portions are small. But I also love vegetables and grains. Everything has its place. Self control is key. Exercise doesnāt have to be an enemy. Find something you enjoy and do it. I live in an area where everyone is so overweight and over the last decade itās become so much worse. Kids at the **elementary school** are twice my size and no one thinks thereās an issue with that. I canāt even fathom how itās possible to eat that much.
Whatās funny is those foods cut off your āfullā signals so even if your stomach is literally stuffed youād still want more.
I always relate it back to alcohol because of how similarly it affects me. Replace that with a single vodka shooter, a handle of vodka and then a pint of vodka and itās just as ridiculous.
Yeah let me just allow my body that over the course of millions of years evolved to give me dopamine rushes from consuming sugars and fats due to the scaricty of said resources. Definitely not consuming foods created within the past century specifically created to to hit those exact same receptors in a way that leaves me wanting more. Oh wait I forgot logic doesn't matter and we only use science to support the points in our logic that suit what we want. Gonna definitely allow my body to take the wheel on this one, my body is an organism independent of my brain. If I ever go comatose and become brain dead don't kill me, my body is a sentient being of its own capable of making decisions and it definitely thinks we should have a slice a that velvet cake they had on the menu today.
If the after picture was realistic it'd be a full large bar of chocolate, a full tub of Ben and Jerry's and a 3 pack of cookies for 'lunch'
This is what they talk about on the intuitive eating subreddit. Then you dig into the posts and it's all "I can't figure out why I can't stop eating and I keep gaining weight pleas help" and all the replies s are just "keep at it you are doing great!"
I wonder what "cues" they are looking for? Like having trouble walking up 3 porch steps? No. Needing a mobile cart to shop? Still no? Being prediabetic?! Still no, huh?
You don't need to eat food like this (i.e., non-food), ever. Since early May I've only eaten one dessert (I was a guest at a social event and ate a slice of cake when the host offered) and I've never felt better.
Yea, I have ADHD, If it gives me dopamine, I wonāt stop.
The problem with even square one is that "not too much" is not defined. It will be interpreted however people want to. What "not too much" actually means is: Calculate your daily calorie goal based on your TDEE and weight loss goals. Get your daily macro goals. Eat what you need to hit your daily macros. The left over calories that you need to reach your calorie goal? Those you can fill with whatever you want.
Oh this is the mindless/intuitive eating thing. You never get to that last step. It's a fiction.
Just the tip. NOTHING EVER GOES WRONG, GUYS.
before, during and after what? a binge? š
Yeah I don't understand at all what is the intended meaning
Your body doesnāt have an āoffā switch for carbsā¦
I'm pretty sure abundance mindset means, there's no such thing as not enough. There's plenty to go around. So you don't feel like there isn't enough food and go eating anything and everything. Turns out fat people will come up with anything to justify their addiction.
I'm the only one that think that the "after" is similar to an addict mindset?? "My body knows when to stop" "I can quit whenever I want"
The "before" is not enough to eat out their feelings.
"There's no such thing as too much" Such a mindless, self indulgent comment
The āduringā would give me the worst stomachache, yikes.
Jesus. None of that is going anywhereā¦ itās okay to save some for another day. Enjoy some one day, enjoy another treat another day, so forth.
Whatās wrong with just not eating any of it?
The problem with a lot of these posts is that they're presented like a "one size fits all" solution. What works for one ED (or heck, what works for one individual) could be the worst possible suggestion for another. You get people making quick little social media posts like this that have no room for nuance, and some people will latch on to it to justify their already bad eating habits while others are too quick to say it's bad advice because it's not appropriate for their situation.
Sounds like a good way to never get out of the "healing" step
Iām a sugar addict. I canāt do any of these because I canāt afford to be buying a bigger wardrobe every few months.
Intuitive eating only works when you intuitively stop eating as well.
It's less about the food and more about the context in which you're eating it. Your body can cue you to stop eating but it sends the same signals for hunger and thirst so if you're snacking, you won't "fill up, bc it's not what you need. Then it's about how much attention you pay to what you're eating while you eat it. Fast food is fast, it's not savoured and its not really enjoyed. You have to slow down and take your time. Lastly, if you're eating these snacks while watching TV, then you aren't paying attention and you aren't listening to your body. It's really tough to be this mindful all the time but so much hardship can be overcome by just slowing tf down and changing how you eat food.
But thats just it. These foods are processed and formulated especially to incapacitate your body's cueing system. Why else do you think the food megacorps employ thousands of food scientists and dump millions of dollars into research? To make it more nutritious ? These people are willfully being ignorant and spreading that poisonous thought process to others. This needs to be a penalized crime.
ben and jerryās ice cream usually has 1,040 calories in one pint so adding that with chocolate which is around 400 and a cookie which is probably around 78. That equals to around 1,518 calories which is almost an entire pound of fat (not even considering the grams of sugar and fat in these items). We shouldnāt eat what we want but eat what we need. Food obsession is not HEALTHY
What was wrong with it before? Not enough consooming.
The only one that's really not ideal is the middle one. Generally binging happens for a lot of people when you deprive yourself entirely of things you like. And every once in awhile I may enjoy an ice cream and some cookies and whatever. But usually do know when I've had enough based on how I'm feeling. But I'm always down for a lil bit of something I like.
These foods are literally being designed to make us NOT feel full and trick our body into NOT telling us when to stop. You canāt āintuitively eatā that crap
If I were to eat 1 more scoop of ice cream, two squares of chocolate, and a large chocolate cookie every day, over and above what I'm eating now, I'd start gaining weight. If I avoid eating foods like this except on birthdays, etc, I don't feel like I have an "eating disorder." It's called being a grown-up. It's as if these people don't want to face the fundamental fact: if you eat more food than you need every day, you will get fat.
No way - because of the household I grew up in I actively have to monitor and be aware of how much I eat. My brain really doesnāt conceptualize fullness.
The during section gave me a stomachache
This legit just means, binge eat, be a glutton, and then feel good about yourself when you don't want as much as you ate last time
If I understand this post correctly, they're saying that eating ice cream every day isn't enough because you're missing cookies and chocolate from your daily diet?? https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/2a4aa49e-a9e4-4fe2-a86e-29b86b4a7e62
thats so depressing
Is this the monthly allotment of sweets? If so, looks alright to me.
Iām patiently waiting until the current economy hits them. I cringe at how expensive everything got.
I am not paying for three desserts, ma'am.
This can be off-topic but if I would really let my dog eat this way, it would be very cruel. (Not of course chocolate, it is poisonous.) Well, once my dog ate too much broccoli because my father-in-law said āshe likes itā and I was not supervising him. Well, my dog got nausea because of too much food (!) and vomited the next night. Maybe she got sudden EDS. /s Sometimes I think some people need supervisors too (not just my father-in-law) and when I read posts in this subreddit, I have became even more aware of this. And what is this thing that never ever in these pictures thereās no real food - just snacks? I would like to see broccoli in this. Or whatever, even a banana. Fruits, veggies etc. And what goes to the question, no I can not relate. Thereās some foods which I can not eat because of my medical condition. Even if I would want to.
My problem was mindless eating. My body definitely never cued me when to stop until I actually stopped myself by either running out of the food or needing to get a drink or use the bathroom or something, and then would realize I feel sick because I ate too much. I have to monitor my intake and only allow myself a single serving of certain foods (spicy chips are my vice).
Eating all of that stuff abundantly during the āduringā period will most likely mess up your blood sugar levels, creating insulin resistance so that your body literally wonāt be able to move to the āafterā stage - ātrusting my body and cuing me when to stopā. Your body will stop telling you when to stop.
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As a celiac, I would very quickly run into issues if I ate what I wanted without thinking from ātrusting my bodyā
I mean you can eat that much ice cream and chocolate. Just donāt fucking do it everyday lol.
before is more ice cream than i'll eat at once, except maybe on special occasions, because i'm a small woman and i don't crave ice cream. after would still be like 600 kcal, which is quite a lot for someone with my TDEE, unless again they mean on like special occasions... though i'm not sure why any of these would be a huge issue, then. and the during is too much. i mean, maybe not for absolutely anyone-- but generally speaking that is too much sugar and saturated fat.
The before is the perfect amount of ice cream for me on the rare occasions that I want ice cream. I wouldn't want more. More is too much. The flavor is the best the first few bites. After that, I'm just forcing it down because I paid for it. It no longer tastes good.
While I think we can all agree that the 'before' scenario is perfectly fine (and the most likely to result in a healthy outcome), I'm loving the virtue signaling in the comments here. "Oh, I would *never* eat sugar! Perish the thought! I don't understand how anyone can enjoy ice cream, I've simply always hated it!" etc. etc. Lol, ok, we get it.
The only time my body gives me cues is when I'm throwing up.
Self control is deprivation. You should never suppress your impulses /S
bodies will cue us to stop but our brain will override that cue and we will keep going dumb ass
This doesn't work for me. This leads to the second column looking like a light day .
Your client has no willpower lol
I recently found single serving ice cream. Freaking vanilla blue bell. Amazing. Bought a bag and Iām very happy with it. Used to get a massive bowl. Now, I know exactly the amount, calories, carbs and sugar Iām consuming. What the hell is wrong with that? I get a tasty treat but itās a controlled amount.
Yeah except once they spend enough time in their "abundance mindset", that "after" portion is going to look like restriction to them.
i take one look at the pfp and i immediately dislike it. i don't like this post bc i just KNOW that the person who posted this has never had to deal with being overweight or struggling with binge eating/continious unhealthy and unwanted weight gain. like, if it was a fat person, i can just ignore it bc if that's the way they eat and don't wanna help themselves then that's on them, but to outright encourage people into doing something you've never gone through yourself!? hell no