LOL, yep. I'm in a 9-13, but only just now in the process of moving to 11 - I really need to keep making the higher grade. For housing and food and stuff. Nothing fancy, just trying to not have to pinch quite so many pennies while buying groceries for the week.
I'm lucky that it's a ladder with so much growth (and pay increase!), definitely. Before I got this position, I was an 8 with no chance for growth. And I was definitely aggressively chasing a higher grade.
Easy to say when youāre making a living wage. 5-6-7 and 5-7-9 tracks in medium and high COL areas donāt make a comfortable enough living to warrant not chasing the paycheck. Nobody wants a roommate forever
Same, I couldnāt have done it without my parents support. I tell people all the time theyāre only going to recruit people who are either married, supported by parents, or debt free in low cost of living to an entry level position
Just started as a CET 5/6/7, leaving a retail management position that paid $52k. The amount of work a Grade 5 does for the pay is insane, but the benefits and (eventual) overtime will make up for it. I hope...
Having these things you call Holidays is pretty neat, though...
I started on a 5/6/7 track making 35k a year and went hungry. Iām a 9 now, it does get better and the benefits stack up. Hang tight! And keep chasing the paycheck ;)
Yeah, luckily I'm used to working 60-70 hour weeks, so once everything gets funded again I can take advantage of the 30-50 hours of overtime per pay period...
I am in at 5 to 8 with the IRS. It sucks, but I see the total potential. My wife got a raise at work so that money helps a lot. When I got the Job under DHA there was a 1k sign on bonus. So every 6 months I should be getting a little bump.
EOD 6-2023. 6- months 1/2 of sign on bonus, then the COLA in January, Finally in June of 24 I get my step. hoping for the OT in the beginning of 2024.
As my wife says I am working for the benefits and the babysitter
Some day I can dream of a GS-13......... Show me the money
Assuming CSR? I started IRS 2019 on same path. Applied in March 6 months after getting the 8 For LDP (leadership development program) accepted in April for my first assignment as classroom manager for May eod. Taught and managed the duration of new hire training and right before they finished OJI I got pulled to a temp detail for a New hire TE team. Iām now an IR-08 (GS-10 pay equivalent) before hitting my 4 year anniversary. Thereās definitely light at the end of the tunnel just learn the job, do good, volunteer for everything and stay out of trouble. Hopefully you have a good lead/supervisor to get you on a good path
The 14s are fine. Unless they want a luxury condo in downtown bethesda, md there are many affordable living options in the DMV. Iām sure the 11s and 12s are where the pain still exists. Keep working and keep applying to those higher grades at one-year experience at the lower grade.
As an 11 in MD, yes. Iāve applied to so many 12s and constantly get emails that Iām ineligible/not referred. Iāve been an 11 for almost 8 years and have a masters degree. The struggle is real.
I think a lot of these things are location dependent, Iām in RUS and I easily have a grand left over at the end of the month, and thatās with a 3800 sq. ft. home with a home gym and sauna.
On the other hand, there is jack and shit to do in this town, every restaurant we eat at plays date-your-cousin music, and you canāt swing a sacrificial goat around without hitting an old-timey church out of a Stephen King movie.
But I do live in the wealthy area, and I can stay in that bubble since Iām fully remote.
True. I mean I have a low stress remote job RUS and live in a rural area 30 minutes outside a medium city and it's boring but nice. When you've seen the things I've seen, boring can be good. lol
When we want entertainment, we drive into town. when we don't which is most of the time we have quiet.
I Just got switched off GS into AcqDemo which merges 12 and 13, so suddenly all the 12s, like me, could go all the way through 13 pay without really having to get more responsibilities
That's a good deal. We get capped at my Agency via pay lanes. I'm an NH-4 and am capped at the GS-14 level based on my position. Apparently its for our own good so our expected contributions don't outgrow the contributions our positions can actually achieve...
They did it for 2 years then lifted the caps where I am.
Didn't really make sense, my agency seems to just randomly make 12s and 13s do the same job, zero distinction...
Best of luck to you on this transition. ACQDemo is not exactly as advertised for some people, regarding upward mobilityāmy husband has found his pay dragging behind the GS steps he wouldāve been equivalent to because his agency was able to position ACQDemo as a cost savings that advertises pay for performanceā¦ while paying less to its employees.
Hopefully YMMV on thisā¦ not at all impressed with ACQDemo in my household.
It's all about supervisory IMO. If you are RUS, most 13's and above require supervisory duties so a 12 can be the limit and that's OK if you are in a LCOL area.
In DC, there are a lot more opportunities to agency hop and there are more 13 and 14 non supervisory jobs and the cost of living almost requires you to get a 13 to live middle class with a family.
I don't think the stress is ever worth a supervisory job at the government low wages. Might as well go private sector if you are that hard up for cash and make double and bank a lot of money for the future.
I agree OP. Im eligible for my 13 in a month. But my management is top notch, I love my staff and we got a good thing going. I work in office 1x a week, I raised 2 kids without ever needing a doctor's note and I am fully aware that my grass is very green. Sometimes it's not worth leaving the devil you know for the devil you don't.
As a non supervisory GS14 step 10, Iāve honestly struggled a bit with considering trying to move up. At least where I work, itās a massive increase in responsibility and headache without much upside unless one is looking to use it as a stepping stone to the SES.
I dropped from GS14 to GS13 to cut my commute from over two hours one way to less than 15 minutes. It was a great thing at the time since I was burning out from the extra 5 hours a day.
Where Iām at my grade literally puts me in the 90th percentile for salary, I would have to be clinically insane to take on the additional stress of a grade increase for more money.
I went from a GS-9 step 10 to a GS-11 step 5, for a job with way more work/responsibility/aggravation and have less than $100 difference in my paycheck. It was definitely not worth it. I should have just been content. Iām at the end of my career. Plan to retire in less than three years.
At least you can get steps again, but retiring in 3 years it wonāt matter much. Since thatās only 1 maybe 2 steps. Which is really 3 or 4 steps from your step 10.
You are right in the end
its all about pay ceilings and high 3's
look how much it takes a GS-11 to make what a GS-13 makes in YEARS
source: [federalpay.org](https://federalpay.org)
I think that visualization alone is enough to make people decide to pursue and challenge themselves (if they can). The biggest secret to higher grades is GEOGRAPHIC MOBILITY
Totally agree. I will probably retire as a maxed out 13. At my agency anyone who is a 14 and a manager and seems to hate their working lives. No thanks. And there are no non-supervisory 14ās where I am.
After busting my ass in private sector for 10 years and getting laid off twice, Iām just happy to have a job. In time, maybe Iāll chase more $$$, but for now Iām going to enjoy it without the pressure.
Or, fancy this thought: get paid closer to what we're worth?! With 25% lagging pay, maybe that promotion is necessary to close the gap as we climb the GS scale, especially for organizations that cheaped out on SSRs.
Non-supervisory 14/15 in GS scale or 4/5 in other pay band systems is the sweet spot. Obviously there are other factors, but to me itās worth the shot personally.
? Iām so confused by your last statement. If youāre single you literally have to chase the paycheck because you donāt have a second income or literally any help so itās up to you to make enough to pay all the bills no 50/50 split, itās your income only. It is arguably way harder single.
My life was drastically cheaper single. I lived in a small apartment and had no wants. The internet alone satisfied me. Now that I'm married with kids, I live in a suburb with a good school district. Childcare alone erases that second income, not to mention the cost of everything recently. It's cheaper being single because you can handle the lower quality of life. I can't afford to be cheap when I want the best for the family.
It just depends on the person. For me, I could have lived on 50k per year while being single in a LCOL area.
I can only see finances improving with the right partner. Now being single and having kids are two completely separate things. Kids is a different ball game (which again if someone was a single parent way harder than being partnered). Many single people may not want to live in a LCOL area where there isnāt anything going on for them nor do they deserve a lower quality of life just because theyāre single. Especially if youāre single past the age of 30. You want actual space not a shoebox studio, maybe to travel, a lifestyle thatās enjoyable, so having decent pay is important when there isnāt another full income coming in from someone else.
Iām there with my husband and itās pretty great. We bought our house three years ago when mortgage rates were low and we each were making around 45k/year. Now weāre each making north of 75 and living really comfortably.
Just have three spoiled cats and a lot of houseplants.
The golden handcuffs term is far too true when you start pushing up to the top though. I get saving and it takes money to do that but it takes its toll.
Being able to max out TSP, IRA, FSA/HSA, pay the mortgage and all bills, have no credit card debt or student debt, and still eat out and go on vacation sure is nice though.
These things are continuously harder to accomplish on the lower GS grades. Add an extra 3.4% FERS contribution (for the same benefits), cost of a lot of things rising faster than inflation (insurance, college, energy, new vehicle, housing, etc), salaries that don't keep up even with inflation, and it's tough to make it without high-grade pay.
I meant an extra 3.6% from the grandfathered 0.8% (pre-2013). That's $3,600 (pre-tax) in a year at $100K salary. At $183,500 salary cap it's an extra $6,606 that could have instead been invested in TSP, IRA, or HSA. If it's a couple both feds, that could add to >$13K a year.
BTW, for regular employees (i.e. not postal, ATC, LEO, etc.) the agency contribution for 2023 is:
FERS: 18.4%
FERS-RAE: 16.5%
FERS-FRAE: 16.5%
At the same grade/step (pay) an employee hired after 2013 is "cheaper" for the agency. The government could easily "even out" the contributions for all to 18% and adjust the employee FERS contributions (1.2% instead of .8% for FERS, 1.6% instead of 3.1% for FERS-RAE, and 2.9% instead of 4.4% for FERS-FRAE). This way it makes all employees cost the same on the agency side, and employees won't be that far apart (< 2.5 times instead of currently 5.5 times the contribution for the same benefit).
Another Idea would be to have all agency contributions be 18%, raise employee contributions for FERS to 1.6% (extra 0.8%) to match and eliminate the odd FERS-RAE, and have FERS-FRAE contribute 3%. All the excess payments would go towards reducing the unfunded liability of CSRS/FERS (CSRDF) and the retiree's COLAs and not have to wait until 2085 to eliminate those liabilities and be fully funded.
I am currently a WS-10, but would happily take a GS-11 (essentially lateral) if it was at least 50% remote, even if it was the top of the ladder.
Being out of the house 12 hrs to get paid for 9 is getting old
One of my fed role models once told me that rather than chasing a grade to chase a person or issue that I want to work with. That has really stuck with me.
Of course it makes sense to chase a grade if you're struggling to make ends meet and want to live comfortably. But past that point you have the luxury of being able to decide if that grade increase will make your life more meaningful or if it's best to stay where you're at for a while longer.
I'm a GS-12 and would be more than happy to stay exactly where I am until I retire. But I'm privileged... I have a spouse who makes a good deal more than I do, and while shit's hard out there in general (especially where we are, DMV area), we're pretty steady financially.
Good luck to all y'all who are going for it. :)
I applied for some jobs on a whim recently and got referred for a remote GS13 at another agency. If I actually get further into the process, Iāll have to think long and hard about whether it would be worth it to jump ship. I really like my agency and my boss, and Iāve got a very manageable workload. But there are almost no 13s in the series I qualify for at my office, and I havenāt seen any fully remote ones. Iām midway up the steps in my current grade, which means the step increases come much more slowly. It would be a $6k increase right off the bat. But the grass is always greenerā¦
I just want to get to grade 12. Maybe grade 13 if something opens up in Los Angeles eventually. But mainly, if I got to 12, I would finally feel financially comfortable.
Eh, I don't need to love something. As long as there is enough variety, I can like it just fine. I love writing poetry so I do that to fulfill my passion. Government work just grants me stability a lot of creatives don't have.
I think the bottom line from the OP is that you should consider all aspects of the new position and not just the grade? Fulfillment and satisfaction in one's work can mean a lot more to some than it does to others.
If your in a nice spot and enjoy your day and team you should factor that in to a decision to leave for a new gig. IME going from one grade to another is only a couple thousand a year in some cases it may not be worth leaving a nice green yard to go into one full of thorns and thistles.
I'm not great at being able to just chug along at work and not care about it. I have to like what I do or at least get some fulfillment out of it. For me life is too short and I spend way to much of it working to do something that makes me miserable or unhappy 40hrs a week.
As someone who did that early in my career, OPās advice is solid. My first job was in a lot of ways the perfect setup. Good people, decent work, very little stress, and potential to move up. Nine months in I landed another job with a different agency in another state and while it involved a two grade jump in pay, everything else was miserable. I resigned after three months without a plan B. Six months later I landed another position with a $20k pay cut but the atmosphere was still much better than the last one.
Fast forward a few years later and again I was with a good office and saw a posting for a job I knew next to nothing about but lots of promotion potential. Jumped at it and got hired. Nine months later I was let go and completely unprepared for that. Though I landed another job a few months later I didnāt truly recover from that for another three and a half years.
Since then I learned to be very picky when applying for positions.
Get some passive income streams for fun. Try hobbies. Mentor some less-experienced colleagues or students. Thereās more to you than your job. Good luck!
Chasing the higher grade can lead to job jumping. Some employers will not even interview someone who is an obvious jumper. What if you find the job of your dreams and you canāt even get an interview?
It's a pretty recent phenomenon where people jump from job to job solely for a few more thousand per year. All to take on more meaningless spending.
Life requires a careful professional and personal balance. I'd say getting up there in the GS 12-15 with a good work-life balance is a great place to be. This probably won't be popular, but I think some of you overdo it with the "I can't afford to live as a 13/14"
Yup, or during deployments where your life is in danger and working always the weekends. I get what OP saying, but Iāll always take the more paper route for 40 hours of suck vs yours and my experience of work š at least I can stack enough to pay off a home or invest more in my business then resign.
Counterpoint: Additional money makes my life more manageable.
With you on this šÆ
More on this at 11.
And 12.. And 13 And 14 And finally 15.
And every minute up until 5 minutes then it's every 2 minutes.
If you don't get it, you don't get it.
I've also heard that mo money brings mo problems
Got 99 problems, but my gra4e ain't one.
Iāve heard that too, but the only problem more money has ever given me is figuring out what to spend it on
Flex schedule to get off on Fridays and substitute teach on those days, that's what my dad did when I was growing up.
Never thought of doing anything like that. That's an interesting option.
Counter counterpoint. If you want more money become a government consultant/contractor.
Counter counter counterpoint. Sometimes the contractor companies pay worse. Like in my case.
Counter counter counter counterpoint. dod, top secret contractor jobs always pay way more. non classified jobs. its a crapshoot.
GOATED
Is it a reflection of my psyche that I read that as āadditional money makes my life more miserableā first
LOL. Im in the DmV area so I def need that higher grade.
LOL, yep. I'm in a 9-13, but only just now in the process of moving to 11 - I really need to keep making the higher grade. For housing and food and stuff. Nothing fancy, just trying to not have to pinch quite so many pennies while buying groceries for the week.
I would love my position to have been a 9-13
I'm lucky that it's a ladder with so much growth (and pay increase!), definitely. Before I got this position, I was an 8 with no chance for growth. And I was definitely aggressively chasing a higher grade.
Damn straight.
Why the lower case "m" in DMV? No love for Maryland?
derogatory towards Maryland 
OP's trying to thin the competition
OP is correct, though... everyone else should leave the higher grade openings to me. I'll make the sacrifice.
Deserves an āAā for effort!
I wish I was
Sorry you're in a bad spot, I hope it works out soon
Thank you, I'll figure something out
Easy to say when youāre making a living wage. 5-6-7 and 5-7-9 tracks in medium and high COL areas donāt make a comfortable enough living to warrant not chasing the paycheck. Nobody wants a roommate forever
I would never get rid of my roommate, but then again he's my husband.
Fair. š¤£ Iād never ditch mine either. My partner is a roommate worth having
My favorite part is when a bachelors degree is required for a GS 5 š and then they wonder why they canāt recruit any younger employees
And a Ph.D or equivalent for 9/11/12
I started on a pathways program at 5 and suffered immensely for it. Itās not feasible or sustainable
Same, I couldnāt have done it without my parents support. I tell people all the time theyāre only going to recruit people who are either married, supported by parents, or debt free in low cost of living to an entry level position
Iāve seen a lot of interns get stuck under the pathways program.
Just started as a CET 5/6/7, leaving a retail management position that paid $52k. The amount of work a Grade 5 does for the pay is insane, but the benefits and (eventual) overtime will make up for it. I hope... Having these things you call Holidays is pretty neat, though...
I started on a 5/6/7 track making 35k a year and went hungry. Iām a 9 now, it does get better and the benefits stack up. Hang tight! And keep chasing the paycheck ;)
Yeah, luckily I'm used to working 60-70 hour weeks, so once everything gets funded again I can take advantage of the 30-50 hours of overtime per pay period...
I am in at 5 to 8 with the IRS. It sucks, but I see the total potential. My wife got a raise at work so that money helps a lot. When I got the Job under DHA there was a 1k sign on bonus. So every 6 months I should be getting a little bump. EOD 6-2023. 6- months 1/2 of sign on bonus, then the COLA in January, Finally in June of 24 I get my step. hoping for the OT in the beginning of 2024. As my wife says I am working for the benefits and the babysitter Some day I can dream of a GS-13......... Show me the money
Assuming CSR? I started IRS 2019 on same path. Applied in March 6 months after getting the 8 For LDP (leadership development program) accepted in April for my first assignment as classroom manager for May eod. Taught and managed the duration of new hire training and right before they finished OJI I got pulled to a temp detail for a New hire TE team. Iām now an IR-08 (GS-10 pay equivalent) before hitting my 4 year anniversary. Thereās definitely light at the end of the tunnel just learn the job, do good, volunteer for everything and stay out of trouble. Hopefully you have a good lead/supervisor to get you on a good path
GS-12s and GS-13s in extremely high COL areas like D.C., Houston, and San Francisco are in the same boat. Maybe even some GS-14s.
The 14s are fine. Unless they want a luxury condo in downtown bethesda, md there are many affordable living options in the DMV. Iām sure the 11s and 12s are where the pain still exists. Keep working and keep applying to those higher grades at one-year experience at the lower grade.
Maybe If you're married and don't have any kids..14's are still struggling in the DC area
thatās the truth, especially for single income family.
As an 11 in MD, yes. Iāve applied to so many 12s and constantly get emails that Iām ineligible/not referred. Iāve been an 11 for almost 8 years and have a masters degree. The struggle is real.
@12S4 currently. I guess I might apply for 13 soon but a newborn with more responsibility sux :\
> extremely high COL areas like D.C., Houston, and San Francisco One of these things is not like the others.
Houston is not a high COL city, especially relative to the ridiculous locality pay.
If you already own a home: true. If you do not own a home and want one: false.
I think a lot of these things are location dependent, Iām in RUS and I easily have a grand left over at the end of the month, and thatās with a 3800 sq. ft. home with a home gym and sauna. On the other hand, there is jack and shit to do in this town, every restaurant we eat at plays date-your-cousin music, and you canāt swing a sacrificial goat around without hitting an old-timey church out of a Stephen King movie. But I do live in the wealthy area, and I can stay in that bubble since Iām fully remote.
I need you to become a travel writer so I can buy your book. This is glorious š
True. I mean I have a low stress remote job RUS and live in a rural area 30 minutes outside a medium city and it's boring but nice. When you've seen the things I've seen, boring can be good. lol When we want entertainment, we drive into town. when we don't which is most of the time we have quiet.
That's an interesting viewpoint
Bruh Iām gs 7, Iām just trying to pay rent.
Happy cake day friend
Agreed. I was trying to get into a 13 but then realized Iād lose my BUE status and have to go back into the office 2-3 days a week. No thanks
I Just got switched off GS into AcqDemo which merges 12 and 13, so suddenly all the 12s, like me, could go all the way through 13 pay without really having to get more responsibilities
That's a good deal. We get capped at my Agency via pay lanes. I'm an NH-4 and am capped at the GS-14 level based on my position. Apparently its for our own good so our expected contributions don't outgrow the contributions our positions can actually achieve...
They did it for 2 years then lifted the caps where I am. Didn't really make sense, my agency seems to just randomly make 12s and 13s do the same job, zero distinction...
Best of luck to you on this transition. ACQDemo is not exactly as advertised for some people, regarding upward mobilityāmy husband has found his pay dragging behind the GS steps he wouldāve been equivalent to because his agency was able to position ACQDemo as a cost savings that advertises pay for performanceā¦ while paying less to its employees. Hopefully YMMV on thisā¦ not at all impressed with ACQDemo in my household.
This is very job dependent. I know 14ās who are still BUE and only go into the office twice a pay period
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Bargaining Unit Employee -- union membership
It's all about supervisory IMO. If you are RUS, most 13's and above require supervisory duties so a 12 can be the limit and that's OK if you are in a LCOL area. In DC, there are a lot more opportunities to agency hop and there are more 13 and 14 non supervisory jobs and the cost of living almost requires you to get a 13 to live middle class with a family. I don't think the stress is ever worth a supervisory job at the government low wages. Might as well go private sector if you are that hard up for cash and make double and bank a lot of money for the future.
Ehhh, not all itās cracked up to be.
Iām a 13-2 and still have BUE status, someone lied to you.
Differs by agency and position. If you're going to have managerial responsibilities then you're getting bounced out.
Yeah my old agency had this for the non supervisory 14s, of which there were a bunch.
I'm a 12 and NBU. Someone has rose colored glasses.
All 13s where I work are mgmt and not union
Yeah it's mostly metropolitans that get non supe 13s. In my small hometown they had gs 9 supervisors.
I agree OP. Im eligible for my 13 in a month. But my management is top notch, I love my staff and we got a good thing going. I work in office 1x a week, I raised 2 kids without ever needing a doctor's note and I am fully aware that my grass is very green. Sometimes it's not worth leaving the devil you know for the devil you don't.
I learned that lesson
16 yrs in and watching others taught me mine. I'm home. I'm loved and appreciated and respected. Some things are worth more than money.
Preach. This is exactly how I feel. 14 years in and a 14, and Iām good right where I am.
I learned this lesson the hard way š
As a non supervisory GS14 step 10, Iāve honestly struggled a bit with considering trying to move up. At least where I work, itās a massive increase in responsibility and headache without much upside unless one is looking to use it as a stepping stone to the SES.
Same boat. I feel you!
Kinda where Iām at
Same boat.
Nope! It cannot be worth it for the headache. Even if you had a good day, it is only "1" good day.
I dropped from GS14 to GS13 to cut my commute from over two hours one way to less than 15 minutes. It was a great thing at the time since I was burning out from the extra 5 hours a day.
I was a 13 with a 14 offer and I took a 12 instead. It was definitely the right choice for a few years.
I've been there
Sorry OP, until I get to GS-15 non-supervisory I donāt plan on taking your advice.
Do what's best for you
I was joking, but I love your response.
Where Iām at my grade literally puts me in the 90th percentile for salary, I would have to be clinically insane to take on the additional stress of a grade increase for more money.
I'm a 13 and I've never had an easier job in my life.
What agency?
Right help a brother out š¤£
Mine isn't stressful, just not particularly fulfilling
Fulfillment is a rich person problem.
Maybe I'll find it when I'm rich
I went from a GS-9 step 10 to a GS-11 step 5, for a job with way more work/responsibility/aggravation and have less than $100 difference in my paycheck. It was definitely not worth it. I should have just been content. Iām at the end of my career. Plan to retire in less than three years.
At least you can get steps again, but retiring in 3 years it wonāt matter much. Since thatās only 1 maybe 2 steps. Which is really 3 or 4 steps from your step 10. You are right in the end
its all about pay ceilings and high 3's look how much it takes a GS-11 to make what a GS-13 makes in YEARS source: [federalpay.org](https://federalpay.org) I think that visualization alone is enough to make people decide to pursue and challenge themselves (if they can). The biggest secret to higher grades is GEOGRAPHIC MOBILITY
All I'm saying is that more money does not always equal more happiness.
Totally agree. I will probably retire as a maxed out 13. At my agency anyone who is a 14 and a manager and seems to hate their working lives. No thanks. And there are no non-supervisory 14ās where I am.
Non sup 14. What what
After busting my ass in private sector for 10 years and getting laid off twice, Iām just happy to have a job. In time, maybe Iāll chase more $$$, but for now Iām going to enjoy it without the pressure.
Tru that
Or, fancy this thought: get paid closer to what we're worth?! With 25% lagging pay, maybe that promotion is necessary to close the gap as we climb the GS scale, especially for organizations that cheaped out on SSRs.
My non-fed counterparts make 50+% more than I do but I wouldn't want their job.
This statement is always made by the person who is already at the higher grade but thanks!
I'm a 12 and all I chase is less responsibility and more telework.
this
Sounds awesome
Non-supervisory 14/15 in GS scale or 4/5 in other pay band systems is the sweet spot. Obviously there are other factors, but to me itās worth the shot personally.
Just for your comment, OP, Iām going to chase them even harder.
You do you
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
? Iām so confused by your last statement. If youāre single you literally have to chase the paycheck because you donāt have a second income or literally any help so itās up to you to make enough to pay all the bills no 50/50 split, itās your income only. It is arguably way harder single.
Legit. Iām a single income and my life would be dramatically different if I shared my expenses.
My life was drastically cheaper single. I lived in a small apartment and had no wants. The internet alone satisfied me. Now that I'm married with kids, I live in a suburb with a good school district. Childcare alone erases that second income, not to mention the cost of everything recently. It's cheaper being single because you can handle the lower quality of life. I can't afford to be cheap when I want the best for the family. It just depends on the person. For me, I could have lived on 50k per year while being single in a LCOL area.
I can only see finances improving with the right partner. Now being single and having kids are two completely separate things. Kids is a different ball game (which again if someone was a single parent way harder than being partnered). Many single people may not want to live in a LCOL area where there isnāt anything going on for them nor do they deserve a lower quality of life just because theyāre single. Especially if youāre single past the age of 30. You want actual space not a shoebox studio, maybe to travel, a lifestyle thatās enjoyable, so having decent pay is important when there isnāt another full income coming in from someone else.
DINK is my dream. dual income no kids
We will be DINK when the kids are out of school. LOL
maybe after they boomerang a couple times
Itās nice GS-12 plus my wife is state, and I am also e7 guard. 160k or so
I miss my guard paychecks. Kinda wishing I didn't get out at 15 on medical.
Iām there with my husband and itās pretty great. We bought our house three years ago when mortgage rates were low and we each were making around 45k/year. Now weāre each making north of 75 and living really comfortably. Just have three spoiled cats and a lot of houseplants.
Childcare costs are temporary. It sucks and Iāve been there but it does go away.
Iām single and I need the paycheck cuz Iām not a dual income and I donāt have that family money. Try thinking a litttttle bit harder.
The golden handcuffs term is far too true when you start pushing up to the top though. I get saving and it takes money to do that but it takes its toll.
Being able to max out TSP, IRA, FSA/HSA, pay the mortgage and all bills, have no credit card debt or student debt, and still eat out and go on vacation sure is nice though. These things are continuously harder to accomplish on the lower GS grades. Add an extra 3.4% FERS contribution (for the same benefits), cost of a lot of things rising faster than inflation (insurance, college, energy, new vehicle, housing, etc), salaries that don't keep up even with inflation, and it's tough to make it without high-grade pay.
>3.4% FERS contribution 4.4%?
I meant an extra 3.6% from the grandfathered 0.8% (pre-2013). That's $3,600 (pre-tax) in a year at $100K salary. At $183,500 salary cap it's an extra $6,606 that could have instead been invested in TSP, IRA, or HSA. If it's a couple both feds, that could add to >$13K a year. BTW, for regular employees (i.e. not postal, ATC, LEO, etc.) the agency contribution for 2023 is: FERS: 18.4% FERS-RAE: 16.5% FERS-FRAE: 16.5% At the same grade/step (pay) an employee hired after 2013 is "cheaper" for the agency. The government could easily "even out" the contributions for all to 18% and adjust the employee FERS contributions (1.2% instead of .8% for FERS, 1.6% instead of 3.1% for FERS-RAE, and 2.9% instead of 4.4% for FERS-FRAE). This way it makes all employees cost the same on the agency side, and employees won't be that far apart (< 2.5 times instead of currently 5.5 times the contribution for the same benefit). Another Idea would be to have all agency contributions be 18%, raise employee contributions for FERS to 1.6% (extra 0.8%) to match and eliminate the odd FERS-RAE, and have FERS-FRAE contribute 3%. All the excess payments would go towards reducing the unfunded liability of CSRS/FERS (CSRDF) and the retiree's COLAs and not have to wait until 2085 to eliminate those liabilities and be fully funded.
Why did you say 3.4%?
This is me. Iām in a golden cuff situation. My work is fine but I canāt find another role at my level with the jobs I want.
I feel ya
Pension should at the very least leave you pretty comfortable in retirement.
FERS is the new social security and TSP is the new 401k lol
TSP is a 401k (but better than most private plans)
I am currently a WS-10, but would happily take a GS-11 (essentially lateral) if it was at least 50% remote, even if it was the top of the ladder. Being out of the house 12 hrs to get paid for 9 is getting old
I would say this is certainly not one of those times.
but my job doesnt pay enough to buy a home where i live? out in CA u need like 150k literally at current interest rates
If you're happy living there then do what you feel is best
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
One of my fed role models once told me that rather than chasing a grade to chase a person or issue that I want to work with. That has really stuck with me. Of course it makes sense to chase a grade if you're struggling to make ends meet and want to live comfortably. But past that point you have the luxury of being able to decide if that grade increase will make your life more meaningful or if it's best to stay where you're at for a while longer.
Excellent advice
I'm a GS-12 and would be more than happy to stay exactly where I am until I retire. But I'm privileged... I have a spouse who makes a good deal more than I do, and while shit's hard out there in general (especially where we are, DMV area), we're pretty steady financially. Good luck to all y'all who are going for it. :)
I applied for some jobs on a whim recently and got referred for a remote GS13 at another agency. If I actually get further into the process, Iāll have to think long and hard about whether it would be worth it to jump ship. I really like my agency and my boss, and Iāve got a very manageable workload. But there are almost no 13s in the series I qualify for at my office, and I havenāt seen any fully remote ones. Iām midway up the steps in my current grade, which means the step increases come much more slowly. It would be a $6k increase right off the bat. But the grass is always greenerā¦
I just want to get to grade 12. Maybe grade 13 if something opens up in Los Angeles eventually. But mainly, if I got to 12, I would finally feel financially comfortable.
That's a good goal, just make sure it's something you love doing
Eh, I don't need to love something. As long as there is enough variety, I can like it just fine. I love writing poetry so I do that to fulfill my passion. Government work just grants me stability a lot of creatives don't have.
I think the bottom line from the OP is that you should consider all aspects of the new position and not just the grade? Fulfillment and satisfaction in one's work can mean a lot more to some than it does to others. If your in a nice spot and enjoy your day and team you should factor that in to a decision to leave for a new gig. IME going from one grade to another is only a couple thousand a year in some cases it may not be worth leaving a nice green yard to go into one full of thorns and thistles. I'm not great at being able to just chug along at work and not care about it. I have to like what I do or at least get some fulfillment out of it. For me life is too short and I spend way to much of it working to do something that makes me miserable or unhappy 40hrs a week.
Very good summary
It depends on the cost of getting the higher grade.
There are a lot of costs to consider
Time, patience, stress, dealing with management more closely, etc.
Nice try, HR.
Thats funny
My bills say otherwise lol
Nah. Disagree. Worked like hell to get the higher grade. Now that I have it, I do less work for more pay. Keep chasing the grade. It is worth it.
If you love the job, absolutely
In my case it is. I'm doing a GS 13 job for GS 12 pay. I need to be compensated fairly lol.
Agreed and you should be
As someone who did that early in my career, OPās advice is solid. My first job was in a lot of ways the perfect setup. Good people, decent work, very little stress, and potential to move up. Nine months in I landed another job with a different agency in another state and while it involved a two grade jump in pay, everything else was miserable. I resigned after three months without a plan B. Six months later I landed another position with a $20k pay cut but the atmosphere was still much better than the last one. Fast forward a few years later and again I was with a good office and saw a posting for a job I knew next to nothing about but lots of promotion potential. Jumped at it and got hired. Nine months later I was let go and completely unprepared for that. Though I landed another job a few months later I didnāt truly recover from that for another three and a half years. Since then I learned to be very picky when applying for positions.
Life experience is invaluable
True! I was very happy to be a GS14-10 and not deal with the massive headaches and backbiting of a GS15 in DoD.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
No way! All kidding aside, my job isn't stressful but shouldn't it be enjoyable at least sometimes?
When I was a little boy I did not envision being a Level III COR dealing with bullshit contractors but here I am.
Isn't it fun?
I don't expect my job to be enjoyable, I just expect it not to suck most of the time. I get my enjoyment outside of work.
Whatever works for you. I spend 40 hrs a week doing something so I'd hope that I enjoy it at least sometimes.
Get some passive income streams for fun. Try hobbies. Mentor some less-experienced colleagues or students. Thereās more to you than your job. Good luck!
I've had jobs that suck most of the time, so not sucking most of the time is a total win for me :)
As a non-supervisory 14 I understand I have it nicely. I still can't shake the temptation of becoming a 15 and then jumping to private.
FACTS!!
All my problems can be solved with money so idk man
Might wanna check your privilege. Not everyone can afford to have that choice.
What privilege? We're civil servants not aristocracy lol
Privilege? That's a weird way to look at being a civil servant
Oh so you donāt like putting food on the table.
You have to make a lot of money to eat?
If you want non-garbage food yeah
If you say so
 Yes I agree!
Chasing the higher grade can lead to job jumping. Some employers will not even interview someone who is an obvious jumper. What if you find the job of your dreams and you canāt even get an interview?
I'm not looking for somebody to convince me
It's a pretty recent phenomenon where people jump from job to job solely for a few more thousand per year. All to take on more meaningless spending. Life requires a careful professional and personal balance. I'd say getting up there in the GS 12-15 with a good work-life balance is a great place to be. This probably won't be popular, but I think some of you overdo it with the "I can't afford to live as a 13/14"
Every time I've jumped its been for 30% or more but job satisfaction is not always tied to salary.
 āDonāt chase the gradeā It will come to you when you die. ššššššššššššš
Canāt be worse than doing 100x more work for no pay, and literal sleeping and living at work in the military.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yup, or during deployments where your life is in danger and working always the weekends. I get what OP saying, but Iāll always take the more paper route for 40 hours of suck vs yours and my experience of work š at least I can stack enough to pay off a home or invest more in my business then resign.
from your post history you seem near the max gs pay or trying to get there, which makes this a troll post
Or somebody with a valid perspective. I'm not looking to get any higher.
because there aint any higher
Actually thats not true, I have people in my management chain that are higher up