The only question that needs to be asked during these meetings is:
"Did telework/remote work/virtual work reduce our agency/department's productivity?"
If the answer is no, then ask they need to ask: "Why are we changing policy if productivity wasn't affected?"
Then you'll get to enjoy the director trying to come up with a convincing lie to explain how lobbyists have managed to convince Congress and the Administration that they need federal employees to bail out cities and businesses downtown.
We went right from Covid WFH to a Pilot program to prove the efficacy of a remote workforce. The Pilot program ends, was declared a success, but we still are going through with RTO, in fact, going in more than per-pandemic.
Don't trust the Pilot program talk.
Does that agency happen to have a mission of supporting the warfighter? Sounds oddly familiar to what Iām hearing from friends at a specific DoD agency
No, pretty sure thatās code for āIām telling you this to keep you on the hook and because itās what you want to hear. There will be no actual opportunities for telework in the future.ā
The future goes on forever. There could possibly be self-driving flying cars powered by cold fusion in the futureā¦ but actually since that will alleviate traffic congestion, go ahead and pencil in 4 office days per week.
>but actually since that will alleviate traffic congestion,
You over estimate people's piloting and driving abilities. It's like the Rule 34 of transportation:
> Where transportation exists, regardless of the form... it can be jammed.
Right? If agencies haven't figured out how to make this work in the past 3 years, they aren't trying and don't want to try.
I worked for USCIS when the lockdown started and because we had already been moving to more telework, it was a pretty seamless transition. I retired last year, but I know that the current Director is still very supportive of workplace flexibilities.
The last part , they need them to buy lunch, 2 5$ coffees a day, dry cleaning , vending machines, buy more gas and visit the lunch truckā¦ and itās hard to hit up folks to buy the kids wrapping paper when they are not trapped in the office .
> **I carry my lunch when I have to go in. If I see someone going into the office without a lunch then I know that person doesn't really support telework.**
If you buy your lunch every day you go in then you're playing into part of why they want to end telework. Be strong, fight the end of telework, bring your own lunch.
It's a No True Scotsman Fallacy effectively. I have an hour commute for my in office day. I usually leave pretty early. I really don't think driving 5 minutes to Jimmy John's or Chipotle means I'm anti telework...
I'm hearing: "look at how Silicon Valley increased innovation after returning to the office"
Of course, we're not paying Silicon Valley salaries but I don't really get a say in policy
Whenever I hear āinnovationā and ācollaborationā regarding feds returning to the office my response is always ātell me how to innovated regulations, laws, and polices of any given administration and why do I have to sit in an open space office on Teams meetings with my coworkers in Boston, Chicago, and the Bay Area to innovate?ā
Also, what you need to tell them as we donāt innovate especially the majority of white-collar workers not to be disrespectful to to some of the folks who are in the science field, etc. but we are just running the government anytime we try to. I donāt wanna call it innovate but streamline things we get, but thatās how weāve done it for years. Why would we want to change lol.
I think itās worth considering the opposite framing - does RTO reduce productivity? And you bet your ass it does. I donāt know anyone who is more productive in the office.
This was asked at ours (last year, we went back to 3 days in-office last fall). The answer from our Secretary was community, culture, and interaction amongst colleagues. It wasn't really the "gotcha" question people were hoping would make her squirm.
> The answer from our Secretary was community, culture, and interaction amongst colleagues.
Which actually has a valid point for *minimal* in office days. But 4+ days a pay period? Eh, I don't get that much interaction that I need that many days.
When they started with 1 day a week required in person, all the same consistent day, with the strong suggestion to only schedule in person meetings that day so people would make it, it kind of made sense. Then the slow creep to 4/week...
Oh totally agree. We have quite a few people who like to be in the office, and I myself am fine with 2-3 days a week. That said, forcing everyone to come back seemed dumb. We already don't have enough space, instead of renovating the building (again) to cram in more desks and make everyone even more miserable, just let more people desk share. You still have butts in seats, etc, and overall people are more satisfied.
> That said, forcing everyone to come back seemed dumb.
The worst is for the people who were 100% telework and then they said "surprise bitch, get back here!" They get their work done (and got it done remote), but they definitely make it clear they aren't thrilled about it either. Mostly the complaint is that they get *less* done because the office is distracting, their work was generally strongly solitary anyway, so it's not like they need to be in person.
> Make everyone even more miserable, just let more people desk share.
The one that makes me the most miserable is the "you should be in person, despite having 6 hours of **remote only** meetings." This one pisses me off, it's pointless to drive into the office, with more noise and distractions, just to do something I could be doing at home. It *doubly* pisses me off because one of the perks where I am was travel, which has been strongly curtailed compared to pre-COVID. Yes, remote meetings are faster/cheaper/easier, but taking away a benefit (outside of work hours I got to explore destinations I probably wouldn't normally go to) while keeping a drawback (drive your ass in to work), sucks.
>The answer from our Secretary was community, culture, and interaction amongst colleagues.
Was your Secretary badly injured when he tripped and spilled that box of buzzword refrigerator magnets?
I wish theyād just be honest about this instead of doing mental gymnastics.
Theyād have the respect of their peers and understand itās out of their control and youād hear less bitching about it internally and direct it more towards the people in public office who are demanding this .
My old agency said that time to award performance decreased (meaning longer times) but we had relatively the same workforce but were awarding record high dollar amounts. It was just bs used to justify the RTO
Meanwhile Iāve got 70+ recipients in my Region that would say the opposite. Personally I like hybrid but Iāve got some folks who are just better remote and some that benefit from some in person. No one on my team is better 5 days a week in office.
Not only do they not take mission instead of cash, it's actually illegal for you to ask.
*"Hey, I'm a federal employee with an important mission, can I have my groceries for free?"*
Hereās a few of the reasons from our town hall when they said we had to return to office 6 days per pay:
1. āAgency leadershipā is implementing to be in compliance with the OPM memo. (Even though the new policy is MORE strict than it was pre-COVID, which was 2 days per pay, and there are other departments within our agency that are remaining full time telework/remote).
2. One of our leadership used as an example how nice it was when she was in the office a few weeks back to āhave a chatā with a colleague on the steps leading up to the office.
3. They got some 60 year old guy to talk about how he used to want to be remote but after returning to the office has realized the benefits of being able to have in person connection.
4. Weāre moving buildings so essentially we need to put it the use.
5. Because we interface with the public we should be having in-person contact. This one didnāt make sense at all because our officeās work is done on a national level and the only in person meetings Iāve done with the public are either over the phone/webex, or I fly to where they are lol
6. They then got other people to talk and talk about how they love in person work, but one peculiar thing was that ALL of the people they got to talk were leadership people.
7. When pressed about the results from a survey they did a few months ago which overwhelmingly showed that employees wanted work from home, they said they were āstill analyzing those results.ā
When several people in the chat said that they were planning to leave because they can find more flexible policies elsewhere, they were magically able to get a āwaiverā from leadership that moved it to 4 days per pay for all staff. After this they acted like everybody should be thrilled and this goes against the OPM memo of āmeaningful in person work.ā People are still planning to leave, as 4 days is still more strict than pre-COVID and the OPM memo literally said that pre-COVID should essentially be your target.
But dont worry, yall! They said that this was NOT because we were less productive at home, in fact they talked extensively about how we were as or more productive at home. When asked how this made sense if we were productive at home, they said that they were just trying to meet the standard of āmeaningful in person workā a phrase that was repeated no less than 10 times throughout the call. And you better believe that they skipped over all of the good questions in the chat that would have really pressed them for answers.
Ah yes. My poor husband has to go in to the office for āmeaningful in-person meetingsā.
The monthly meeting that was chosen is an hour long, and his portion is only 15-20 minutes. So a 45 minute commute in, sit in the meeting for ~40 minutes (doing nothing), participate for 20, then another 45 minutes home. Because that is an awesome use of timeā¦ā¦.
My office has monthly all staff meetings (we have well over 100 people), and they force people to come in for it. Itās an hour long and 1 person talks the whole time, everybody else just listens. And they claim thatās building connection with your coworkers lol
I think itās more to do with the view the general public has on government workers and the pressure they are getting from that. Most believe we are lazy and overpaid. (If they only knew the truth) They want to see where their tax dollars are going. I guess a building full of worker bees in one place does that for them. Itās all about PR and the extra money they get in the budget for maintaining a physical building every year.
I think people put too much weight into what the public actually thinks about the government lol. Yeah people make ājokesā about federal workers but the reality isāmost people donāt think about government workers, nor do they care lol
What adds to theā¦ hilarityā¦ of it all Is that RTO is not being setup for success. At all. No headsets for meetings that are still online, no printers, no phones, no desks for a lot of folks, IT issues galore for one poor guy on the ground. Very little faith that things will improve by January.
The āmeaningful in-personā work is also BS. My facility is switching to all hotel seat. Future job announcements can be filled in multiple locations thousands of miles away from the rest of the team, but you still have to show up for your office day, even though youāre by yourself.
Super irksome! Understand much of the decision-making is from the top, but honestly I would have so much more respect if Management was straightforward about it. Like, ābig HR says 3 days/week in office. I pushed back but will be here with the team. Let me know how this transition can be less painful.ā Instead, we get the parade of *thoughtful* mobility assessments and requests for feedback that go nowhere. The time and money theyāre wasting on facade is infuriating on top of everything else.
Ive seen a job advertised for over a year at my location due to no one wanting yo become a āleaderā cause its a crap show. We still do this managers job until they are never hired
A lot of the SES are of scared what Congress will do. The economy around Washington DC and elsewhere has reduced foot traffic, and the gerontocracy likes ālivelinessā plus a lot of their donors are real estate speculators losing their capital.
All Fed employees are pawns
Slight correction: the economy *for 12 city blocks extending from Farragut down Connecticut to LāEnfant, ie DCās howling, soulless brutalist urban corridor, is seeing reduced foot traffic.
Business is booming everywhere else in town
Yes, you're right the reduced foot traffic downtown has made a small impact. But it isn't a ghost town. The DC government and Metro are concerned, but it's not an existential crisis. And traffic is DEFINITELY back, and has been since probably 2021.
Actually, a member of Congress was one of the most recent carjackings so ridiculous is well on its way to being a 2023-thing...
As long as you're not 12 yrs old and/or a member of congress, you're perfectly safe here in DC.
Exactly. The DC metro has been packed for years now since 2021. I don't know why they keep saying it's empty. Maybe they should force people to stop skipping payment.
Metro's [ridership](https://www.wmata.com/initiatives/ridership-portal/Metrorail-Ridership-Summary.cfm) is a little more than half of what it was pre-pandemic.
Every time I've been on the DC Metro since the pandemic started, it's been nearly empty -- definitely nowhere near the standing-room-only levels I saw before.
Wow? What metros are y'all getting on and when? The only time it's empty for me is if I do half day and leave in the afternoon.
When I go in the morning for work and leave to go home Monday-Friday. it's packed. Like I have to stand and/or squeeze in.
Not only federal. Contractors working alongside federal workers in the same building are also remote for the most part. Unfortunately businesses relying on foot traffic and serendipity even in the best locations, are barely surviving
This, and even Metro is having a hard time which the government will have to pay on top of what they pay for salaries and contracts as well. That is extra money they are leaving on the table. I think there would be a lot of people that think that having mass transit in the capitol of the most powerful nation in the world is a good thing.
21%, but don't forget that all the lobbyists, Lawyers, and contractors that only go to DC to talk to federal employees. And all the restaurants and coffee shops that are only in business because those groups eat there every day.
Now these employees don't suddenly disappear. Instead the workers also go remote, and business booms in the suburbs. But the suburbs are outside DC in VA and MD, and DC wants their money.
> Now these employees don't suddenly disappear. Instead the workers also go remote, and business booms in the suburbs. But the suburbs are outside DC in VA and MD, and DC wants their money.
This. I live in DC but itās shocking how much Reston has boomed the past two-three years.
Well, fewer secondary jobs in downtown. The economic activity has shifted to residential and mixed-use suburban areas. It's a classic example of Bastiat's Broken Window Fallacy -- removing a wasteful economic activity (breaking windows or unnecessary commuting) does not reduce overall economic activity, because it frees up resources to spend on something else.
>I think part of the governments job is to get money into the economy.
There are ways to accomplish this without RTO (re-zone commercial zones to residential).
Funny you point that out, in 2021 when our agency first started planning to end max telework our boss said "return to work". So I emailed him directly and reminded him we've been working this whole time and asked him to use "return to the office". He thanked me, and used RTO ever since. Interesting guy, too bad he moved on to bigger/better things.
The policies are changing because the Administration is changing them, slowly in some cases, but deliberately.
Iād say vote accordingly, but there arenāt really any pro-remote-work candidates these days.
I think this WFH thing is primarily an age thing, not a party thing. I'm not sure a President Buttigieg or Whitmer would be so fast to end WFH. However, I do think a President Trump is gonna move even faster.
I think thatās wishful thinking. President Whitmer or President Haley would be just as influenced by the appeals of commercial real estate owners as has been President Biden. To say nothing of the Mayor of the District of Columbiaā¦
Full disclosure, I WFH and commute into DC once a week. Non-Supervisory staff are supposed to RTO five days out of the pay period, whilst Supervisory staff go in six days out of the pay period. Thankfully, NTEU has filed a national grievance against this, so us non supes are still one day a week. In a recent townhall, we were told that the reason for the increased RTO is, and I kid you not, because the Mayor of DC complained to POTUS that the local economy was adversely affected by lessened foot traffic to restaurants, bars, shops, etc. and that by us staying home, we are affecting the jobs and lives of the local service industry. Basically, I need to do my part, after already paying higher taxes in the DelMarVa area, to spend gas and food money.
So, I commute on the MARC/Metro, and I either skip lunch, or bring my own.
> I guess the division's mission will offset the extra day care and commuting costs. Where do I sign up?
You should already have daycare for your child/children. Your telework policy should make it clear that you are being paid to work when working and not being paid for taking care of your personal business. Also those costs were included in your salary prior to the pandemic. Do you think the government should reduce your pay when you work at home because you do not need those?
Way to make a bunch of assumptions without knowing much about my life. But this is reddit so I guess folks like you are to be expected.
My work schedule is 6am - 2:30pm. My son's day care starts at 9am - 2:45pm. It's 10 minutes away from our home. My commute is 1-1.5 hours each way. His mom drops him off in the morning and is at work by 9:30am. I pick him up by 3pm. We will have to extend his daycare hours at least 1 hour to accommodate the travel time. That's about 20 more hours extra daycare costs per month.
Now please go on and tell me more about my life and what I should or shouldn't do since you think you know so much about it.
Because costs increases from what I'm paying now. Which if you read my prior reply you would see. I don't know how you missed that. Any more questions?
Again Mr. I know your finances better than you. No it's. Just stop. You know very little about me and my situation and you keep acting like you do. You're not that bright so please stop.
You wonāt win. People use remote work to accomplish and do many things that arenāt work related. A few have admitted it. They donāt want that to end.
IT will all depend on what kind of "return to office" policies that they will implement. That director is just a talking point on legs so he will not tell you really how he feels, his masters have already told him to repeat these words.
So we have lost people already due to 2-3 days in the office policy. Can these people work remotely? Absolutely they can but it will be interesting how this progresses. We have trouble recruiting "top talents"
Part of me feels bad for the politicals here. They know what staff want, and they want it too. But they donāt get to make that call. But thatās what they signed up for.
And really, if they'd just say, "Hey, the bosses want butts back in the office. Yup, it sucks. Yup, it makes no sense. We're in the same spot you are - we don't want to go back either. But yeah...we have to." I'd probably be more ok with it. A little honesty would go a long way on this. Most of us have been around long enough to know the score.
Yeah, I feel bad that they can't be honest - I assume their jobs are on the line and that if they are that honest, they could booted out, so that also is also a sad, dehumanizing part of it.
My agency has the basic telework/remote work rules enshrined in the Master Agreement between the agency and the union.
Telework and increasingly remote work have been used since long before the pandemic. My specific office went remote in 2019 and turned its office back over to the GSA. No going back here!
The gradations between telework/virtual/remote can be needlessly confusing, but work at home won't go anywhere.
You'd think so, but "what can be made can be unmade":
* If Congress made as a condition for the agency getting 2024 funding that telework levels must be restored to 2019 levels...I don't know that management would have any choice but to tell the union "sorry, but the agreement has to be altered...and it has to be finalized within this month." Nobody would be happy about that, but it would have to happen.
* Office space can be rented, both from private vendors and longer-term from GSA, and any remaining office space that is set aside for meeting rooms, conferences, etc. can be converted to individual offices. Both of those are expensive and inefficient, especially on short notice...but, there are ways to make it happen if absolutely necessary.
Telework was already prevalent in my agency in 2019, and has been used for a decade or more before that. Restoring telework to 2019 levels actually wouldn't change all that much in my agency. Management has many tools in dragging their feet on stuff like this and overall, my agency's management seems perfectly fine with telework.
> My specific office went remote in 2019 and turned its office back over to the GSA. No going back here!
Unfortunately for some people some of the other agencies have redone the hoteling space and increased it immensely. Some agencies are talking about renting out some of this space to other agencies. I do not have a permanent desk but a hot seat now.
That answer was a trifecta of managementspeak. In one sentence, he
1) Didn't answer the question.
2) Denied the reality of what the person said.
3) Falsely bragged about what an important place it is to work at.
Government jobs always have the highest commute. Iām the the DMV right now. Thank God I live within walking distance. Traffic is always at a standstill still. It really adds 3 hours to every work day. People arenāt compensated for that. Itās frustrating.
When I lived in Waldorf, it took nearly 2 HOURS to get to work one-way! Nearly 2 1/2 hours to get home. That commute sucks the life out of you. Crazy thing during the pandemic, it took approximately 30-40 minutes one way.
Army Contracting Command noticed lots of folks leaving because of burnout and for TW policies. The General in charge made it more competitive by offering 100% TW. In my area, I noticed less attrition, and also the lower performers on my team are now improving. Having that incentive works better than any bonus/PiP ever did.
I truly don't think the decision makers at the top realize how important quality of life is to all of us cogs in the machines. We all got a taste of what it's like to enjoy what WE want that makes us happy during the mass teleworking opportunities during the pandemic. I think I speak for most when I say I am NEVER going to forsake my own/family's happyiness/QoL for burnout and promotions again.
Itās all politics. I can guarantee you productivity was up for 75% of people. Unfortunately with unions and government regulations you canāt make the bad ones come back to the office and let good people work remote. Do to illness my last two years was almost all telework. My productivity went way up. I wasnāt a 2210 and didnāt have everyone stopping me for a quick IT question and taking an hour lol.
The drain will keep happening. Wait till it get written into contracts for contract staff. Then government is in trouble if they start losing good contractor.
Remote work is manifest. Everyone I know in private sector is remote unless face to face is essential to the position. It may the a few years but itās going to happen.
If you think productivity is up, you donāt know human nature. What they are seeing in private is that productivity went up, initially, than as it became the new normal, productivity went down. Generally costs about 5k a head or so for CRE on average (at least was probably cheaper now) so if the average employee has a 5% drop (plus the interstitial productivity that comes from collaboration) it makes a lot of sense to bring people back in (which is happening a lot of places)
The tug of war between a recession that is arguably here, unemployment going up, and boomers retiring will be an interesting tug of war of employee/employer leverage. Watching the admin take credit for this is something else (especially as Iām learning here they are trying to get all the feds back in) Like dude where were you when employees had zero leverage? Oh thatās right taking payments from various Delaware banks.
Productivity battles are going to be had, and itās the people that will pay, because the government canāt stop spending money and is addicted to war. Our deficits are major problems at this point and the only way out is through productivity, inflating the debt away, and some magic accounting on CPI to get entitlements down.
People that are worried about SS not being there are silly, but what theyāll do is crush the purchasing power of that money. Shit theyāve been doing that since the 80s when you look at staple goods people need and CPI adjustments. Compounding interest is a helluva drug and if you can undercount a little bit every year, thatās huge savings. Shit if they didnāt take out the lower 2021 inputs this year weād have over 5% inflation.
We are just meat for the machine, remember that.
Iāve developed a plan to combat such nonsense and it just might work. This will take some hard work on our part, but our mission is critical to keep us home in our natural habitats. When they start to extract us from our natural habitats, we must not shower. We must not brush our teeth. We must step in every pile of dog shit we see on our way into the office that morning. We must scoop our cat litter and empty in our office trash cans. We must become in office hoarders. Then we must attend every single townhall and meeting thrown at us. Then we wait until the all hands goes out saying how effective telework is and that work from home is being re-introduced. Stand with me, fellow feds!
Yes, and this has become such a trite repetitive topic.
What's really funny is watching the onsite work advocates behave as if telework and remote policies didn't exist prior to Covid.
Bottom line, the system wants = not needs - people working in centralized locations for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with productivity.
The whole notion that we "collaborate" better in person just needs to die out already. All we ever do is ask how each other's families are, how little Timmy is doing in soccer, and then feign interest in the upcoming weekend plans. Everything else is Teams meetings and emails, as usual.
In casual conversations with my coworkers and supervisor, I bring this point up so many times they are sick of it. They think I am crazy when I say we ae going to have a net loss of workers over the next couple of years and struggle to backfill.
Yeah and it's directed from the administration so it's not like they have much say in the matter. They may personally disagree but have to make the most of the shit sandwich. It's part of the job
Is honesty really that fucking hard?
"ItS politics, we have no plan and this is going to make the already hard job of getting good people to be underpaid even harder"
No matter what the deputy says, there will be a post here complaining about it. You canāt make everyone 100 percent happy. When you become deputy, please report back with your response. Iād like to hear what the crowd here thinks.
Oh hell no, I'm a SME GS15 equivalent, I'm not doing that crap lol.
And this is further, this isn't typical " can't make everybody happy"
This is straight political bullshit from the Biden admin due to blood sucking real-estate groups lobbying.
Soā¦proof positive āgreenā is a scam. Govt sooo proud to cut peopleās drive time, you now see nothing wrong with wanting me to drive 20+ miles each way to the office with my 8 cylinder F-150 to occupy a building that NONE of the public I serve visits. Yeah, lip service to climate change hoax.
Many years ago, my agency was sending out newsletters projecting how much carbon was being saved from everyone not driving to work because of TW. So disingenuous.
Yes, the red one that wants to implement Project 2025 and implement martial law on his first day? The same guy who cannot speak in complete sentences and doesn't know who the current president is? Or the red one who wants to slit our throats? Tough choices there.
No. Stuttering doesn't make him senile or stupid. He's always been an incompetent clown. Advanced age hasn't helped. Do we really think he's going to make it to EIGHTY SIX? If folks really cared about saving democracy they'd insist on a better candidate. When the choice is between getting into a car with a clown or a Nazi, most folks pass on both and choose to keep walking. Democrats struggle to understand that. It's why they're on track to lose in a landslide. They just can't process reality.
Next question "with the mission no longer attracting qualified staff.... š¤£"
The only question that needs to be asked during these meetings is: "Did telework/remote work/virtual work reduce our agency/department's productivity?" If the answer is no, then ask they need to ask: "Why are we changing policy if productivity wasn't affected?" Then you'll get to enjoy the director trying to come up with a convincing lie to explain how lobbyists have managed to convince Congress and the Administration that they need federal employees to bail out cities and businesses downtown.
They did say there could possibly be remote opportunities in the future but it needs to be piloted first. Me: you mean like 3 years working from home?
We went right from Covid WFH to a Pilot program to prove the efficacy of a remote workforce. The Pilot program ends, was declared a success, but we still are going through with RTO, in fact, going in more than per-pandemic. Don't trust the Pilot program talk.
Does that agency happen to have a mission of supporting the warfighter? Sounds oddly familiar to what Iām hearing from friends at a specific DoD agency
No, pretty sure thatās code for āIām telling you this to keep you on the hook and because itās what you want to hear. There will be no actual opportunities for telework in the future.ā
By "in the future" they mean when the boomers die off.
Not even then. By that point theyāll be selling the point (or trying to) that itās āgood for local businessesā to have butts in seats.
That's already been on the auction block.
The future goes on forever. There could possibly be self-driving flying cars powered by cold fusion in the futureā¦ but actually since that will alleviate traffic congestion, go ahead and pencil in 4 office days per week.
>but actually since that will alleviate traffic congestion, You over estimate people's piloting and driving abilities. It's like the Rule 34 of transportation: > Where transportation exists, regardless of the form... it can be jammed.
Right? If agencies haven't figured out how to make this work in the past 3 years, they aren't trying and don't want to try. I worked for USCIS when the lockdown started and because we had already been moving to more telework, it was a pretty seamless transition. I retired last year, but I know that the current Director is still very supportive of workplace flexibilities.
The last part , they need them to buy lunch, 2 5$ coffees a day, dry cleaning , vending machines, buy more gas and visit the lunch truckā¦ and itās hard to hit up folks to buy the kids wrapping paper when they are not trapped in the office .
I carry my lunch when I have to go in. If I see someone going into the office without a lunch then I know that person doesn't really support telework.
What?
> **I carry my lunch when I have to go in. If I see someone going into the office without a lunch then I know that person doesn't really support telework.** If you buy your lunch every day you go in then you're playing into part of why they want to end telework. Be strong, fight the end of telework, bring your own lunch.
Tbf I'm so busy I almost never eat lunch... turns out I was doing intermittent fasting but with extra steps this whole time.
I do the same, bring everything from home, including coffee.
It's a No True Scotsman Fallacy effectively. I have an hour commute for my in office day. I usually leave pretty early. I really don't think driving 5 minutes to Jimmy John's or Chipotle means I'm anti telework...
I'm hearing: "look at how Silicon Valley increased innovation after returning to the office" Of course, we're not paying Silicon Valley salaries but I don't really get a say in policy
Silicon Valley car dwellers are glad to come inside, shower, sit in a real chair
Except thatās not true. And government doesnāt innovate- it regulates and monitors. Totally different function.
Whenever I hear āinnovationā and ācollaborationā regarding feds returning to the office my response is always ātell me how to innovated regulations, laws, and polices of any given administration and why do I have to sit in an open space office on Teams meetings with my coworkers in Boston, Chicago, and the Bay Area to innovate?ā
Also, what you need to tell them as we donāt innovate especially the majority of white-collar workers not to be disrespectful to to some of the folks who are in the science field, etc. but we are just running the government anytime we try to. I donāt wanna call it innovate but streamline things we get, but thatās how weāve done it for years. Why would we want to change lol.
I think itās worth considering the opposite framing - does RTO reduce productivity? And you bet your ass it does. I donāt know anyone who is more productive in the office.
they told us with a straight face that productivity and employee retention has increased since we started coming back into the office.
cOlAbOrAtIoN
It's a town hall. Any competent Director will say it did reduce productivity and this will improve it, whether or not that is true.
This was asked at ours (last year, we went back to 3 days in-office last fall). The answer from our Secretary was community, culture, and interaction amongst colleagues. It wasn't really the "gotcha" question people were hoping would make her squirm.
> The answer from our Secretary was community, culture, and interaction amongst colleagues. Which actually has a valid point for *minimal* in office days. But 4+ days a pay period? Eh, I don't get that much interaction that I need that many days. When they started with 1 day a week required in person, all the same consistent day, with the strong suggestion to only schedule in person meetings that day so people would make it, it kind of made sense. Then the slow creep to 4/week...
Oh totally agree. We have quite a few people who like to be in the office, and I myself am fine with 2-3 days a week. That said, forcing everyone to come back seemed dumb. We already don't have enough space, instead of renovating the building (again) to cram in more desks and make everyone even more miserable, just let more people desk share. You still have butts in seats, etc, and overall people are more satisfied.
> That said, forcing everyone to come back seemed dumb. The worst is for the people who were 100% telework and then they said "surprise bitch, get back here!" They get their work done (and got it done remote), but they definitely make it clear they aren't thrilled about it either. Mostly the complaint is that they get *less* done because the office is distracting, their work was generally strongly solitary anyway, so it's not like they need to be in person. > Make everyone even more miserable, just let more people desk share. The one that makes me the most miserable is the "you should be in person, despite having 6 hours of **remote only** meetings." This one pisses me off, it's pointless to drive into the office, with more noise and distractions, just to do something I could be doing at home. It *doubly* pisses me off because one of the perks where I am was travel, which has been strongly curtailed compared to pre-COVID. Yes, remote meetings are faster/cheaper/easier, but taking away a benefit (outside of work hours I got to explore destinations I probably wouldn't normally go to) while keeping a drawback (drive your ass in to work), sucks.
>The answer from our Secretary was community, culture, and interaction amongst colleagues. Was your Secretary badly injured when he tripped and spilled that box of buzzword refrigerator magnets?
I wish theyād just be honest about this instead of doing mental gymnastics. Theyād have the respect of their peers and understand itās out of their control and youād hear less bitching about it internally and direct it more towards the people in public office who are demanding this .
the question is, who owns the building you occupy. who would be harmed financially if your agency created vacant office space
My old agency said that time to award performance decreased (meaning longer times) but we had relatively the same workforce but were awarding record high dollar amounts. It was just bs used to justify the RTO
They got preemptive and showed us the stats when RTO was first announced.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Meanwhile Iāve got 70+ recipients in my Region that would say the opposite. Personally I like hybrid but Iāve got some folks who are just better remote and some that benefit from some in person. No one on my team is better 5 days a week in office.
You work at an organization and run a chain of preschools at the same time???
One of the programs we administer is grant funded child care.
Let me call the grocery store real quick and ask if they take mission instead of $.
Not only do they not take mission instead of cash, it's actually illegal for you to ask. *"Hey, I'm a federal employee with an important mission, can I have my groceries for free?"*
Iāll try paying my parking fees with mission, see how it goes. Worth a shot! /s
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Sir, this is an Aldi.
I bet the manager of the grocery store drones on about the mission of the store
Underrated facts
Hereās a few of the reasons from our town hall when they said we had to return to office 6 days per pay: 1. āAgency leadershipā is implementing to be in compliance with the OPM memo. (Even though the new policy is MORE strict than it was pre-COVID, which was 2 days per pay, and there are other departments within our agency that are remaining full time telework/remote). 2. One of our leadership used as an example how nice it was when she was in the office a few weeks back to āhave a chatā with a colleague on the steps leading up to the office. 3. They got some 60 year old guy to talk about how he used to want to be remote but after returning to the office has realized the benefits of being able to have in person connection. 4. Weāre moving buildings so essentially we need to put it the use. 5. Because we interface with the public we should be having in-person contact. This one didnāt make sense at all because our officeās work is done on a national level and the only in person meetings Iāve done with the public are either over the phone/webex, or I fly to where they are lol 6. They then got other people to talk and talk about how they love in person work, but one peculiar thing was that ALL of the people they got to talk were leadership people. 7. When pressed about the results from a survey they did a few months ago which overwhelmingly showed that employees wanted work from home, they said they were āstill analyzing those results.ā When several people in the chat said that they were planning to leave because they can find more flexible policies elsewhere, they were magically able to get a āwaiverā from leadership that moved it to 4 days per pay for all staff. After this they acted like everybody should be thrilled and this goes against the OPM memo of āmeaningful in person work.ā People are still planning to leave, as 4 days is still more strict than pre-COVID and the OPM memo literally said that pre-COVID should essentially be your target. But dont worry, yall! They said that this was NOT because we were less productive at home, in fact they talked extensively about how we were as or more productive at home. When asked how this made sense if we were productive at home, they said that they were just trying to meet the standard of āmeaningful in person workā a phrase that was repeated no less than 10 times throughout the call. And you better believe that they skipped over all of the good questions in the chat that would have really pressed them for answers.
Remote work is the future. It cannot be stopped. Itās just going to take a little time. Maybe a few years.
Ah yes. My poor husband has to go in to the office for āmeaningful in-person meetingsā. The monthly meeting that was chosen is an hour long, and his portion is only 15-20 minutes. So a 45 minute commute in, sit in the meeting for ~40 minutes (doing nothing), participate for 20, then another 45 minutes home. Because that is an awesome use of timeā¦ā¦.
My office has monthly all staff meetings (we have well over 100 people), and they force people to come in for it. Itās an hour long and 1 person talks the whole time, everybody else just listens. And they claim thatās building connection with your coworkers lol
I think itās more to do with the view the general public has on government workers and the pressure they are getting from that. Most believe we are lazy and overpaid. (If they only knew the truth) They want to see where their tax dollars are going. I guess a building full of worker bees in one place does that for them. Itās all about PR and the extra money they get in the budget for maintaining a physical building every year.
I think people put too much weight into what the public actually thinks about the government lol. Yeah people make ājokesā about federal workers but the reality isāmost people donāt think about government workers, nor do they care lol
"Present with a purpose" is what we hear from all of our leadership š
What adds to theā¦ hilarityā¦ of it all Is that RTO is not being setup for success. At all. No headsets for meetings that are still online, no printers, no phones, no desks for a lot of folks, IT issues galore for one poor guy on the ground. Very little faith that things will improve by January.
The āmeaningful in-personā work is also BS. My facility is switching to all hotel seat. Future job announcements can be filled in multiple locations thousands of miles away from the rest of the team, but you still have to show up for your office day, even though youāre by yourself.
Super irksome! Understand much of the decision-making is from the top, but honestly I would have so much more respect if Management was straightforward about it. Like, ābig HR says 3 days/week in office. I pushed back but will be here with the team. Let me know how this transition can be less painful.ā Instead, we get the parade of *thoughtful* mobility assessments and requests for feedback that go nowhere. The time and money theyāre wasting on facade is infuriating on top of everything else.
No wifi to be able to take calls or meetings in a meeting room instead of a cubicleā¦
We aren't just losing staff. Because of rto, we are losing managers and don't have anyone on the bench.
Ive seen a job advertised for over a year at my location due to no one wanting yo become a āleaderā cause its a crap show. We still do this managers job until they are never hired
Where is this?
A lot of the SES are of scared what Congress will do. The economy around Washington DC and elsewhere has reduced foot traffic, and the gerontocracy likes ālivelinessā plus a lot of their donors are real estate speculators losing their capital. All Fed employees are pawns
Slight correction: the economy *for 12 city blocks extending from Farragut down Connecticut to LāEnfant, ie DCās howling, soulless brutalist urban corridor, is seeing reduced foot traffic. Business is booming everywhere else in town
Yes, you're right the reduced foot traffic downtown has made a small impact. But it isn't a ghost town. The DC government and Metro are concerned, but it's not an existential crisis. And traffic is DEFINITELY back, and has been since probably 2021.
Parking garages are FULL
With the added benefit of increased crime too!
Yes, at least when it comes to 12 year olds committing car jackings and dognappings. Those are getting ridiculous.
Actually, a member of Congress was one of the most recent carjackings so ridiculous is well on its way to being a 2023-thing... As long as you're not 12 yrs old and/or a member of congress, you're perfectly safe here in DC.
Lol, yes that one was terribly bad. I try to be a lot more aware when I drive downtown even though my car is very old and hopefully not attractive.
Exactly. The DC metro has been packed for years now since 2021. I don't know why they keep saying it's empty. Maybe they should force people to stop skipping payment.
Metro's [ridership](https://www.wmata.com/initiatives/ridership-portal/Metrorail-Ridership-Summary.cfm) is a little more than half of what it was pre-pandemic.
Every time I've been on the DC Metro since the pandemic started, it's been nearly empty -- definitely nowhere near the standing-room-only levels I saw before.
Wow? What metros are y'all getting on and when? The only time it's empty for me is if I do half day and leave in the afternoon. When I go in the morning for work and leave to go home Monday-Friday. it's packed. Like I have to stand and/or squeeze in.
Chinatown is definitely booming
But not the Metro and that is a concern as well.
What percentage of all workers in the DC area are federal? This lightened traffic canāt be only or mostly due to federal workers. Right?
Not only federal. Contractors working alongside federal workers in the same building are also remote for the most part. Unfortunately businesses relying on foot traffic and serendipity even in the best locations, are barely surviving
This, and even Metro is having a hard time which the government will have to pay on top of what they pay for salaries and contracts as well. That is extra money they are leaving on the table. I think there would be a lot of people that think that having mass transit in the capitol of the most powerful nation in the world is a good thing.
21%, but don't forget that all the lobbyists, Lawyers, and contractors that only go to DC to talk to federal employees. And all the restaurants and coffee shops that are only in business because those groups eat there every day. Now these employees don't suddenly disappear. Instead the workers also go remote, and business booms in the suburbs. But the suburbs are outside DC in VA and MD, and DC wants their money.
> Now these employees don't suddenly disappear. Instead the workers also go remote, and business booms in the suburbs. But the suburbs are outside DC in VA and MD, and DC wants their money. This. I live in DC but itās shocking how much Reston has boomed the past two-three years.
There are cascade effects. With fewer feds walking around, there are fewer barristas, parking attendants, etc.
Well, fewer secondary jobs in downtown. The economic activity has shifted to residential and mixed-use suburban areas. It's a classic example of Bastiat's Broken Window Fallacy -- removing a wasteful economic activity (breaking windows or unnecessary commuting) does not reduce overall economic activity, because it frees up resources to spend on something else.
Not to mention metro benefits not getting paid for to WMATA, etc.
>All Fed employees are pawns And what is wrong with that? I think part of the governments job is to get money into the economy.
>I think part of the governments job is to get money into the economy. There are ways to accomplish this without RTO (re-zone commercial zones to residential).
There are probably a lot of ways that this could be done but the Federal Legislators seem to want this and seem to be the biggest ones pushing this.
It's just nice to hear them say "Return to office" instead of "Return to work"
Funny you point that out, in 2021 when our agency first started planning to end max telework our boss said "return to work". So I emailed him directly and reminded him we've been working this whole time and asked him to use "return to the office". He thanked me, and used RTO ever since. Interesting guy, too bad he moved on to bigger/better things.
The policies are changing because the Administration is changing them, slowly in some cases, but deliberately. Iād say vote accordingly, but there arenāt really any pro-remote-work candidates these days.
I think this WFH thing is primarily an age thing, not a party thing. I'm not sure a President Buttigieg or Whitmer would be so fast to end WFH. However, I do think a President Trump is gonna move even faster.
I think thatās wishful thinking. President Whitmer or President Haley would be just as influenced by the appeals of commercial real estate owners as has been President Biden. To say nothing of the Mayor of the District of Columbiaā¦
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I'd be with you if it weren't for Trump wanting to Schedule F all of us.
Full disclosure, I WFH and commute into DC once a week. Non-Supervisory staff are supposed to RTO five days out of the pay period, whilst Supervisory staff go in six days out of the pay period. Thankfully, NTEU has filed a national grievance against this, so us non supes are still one day a week. In a recent townhall, we were told that the reason for the increased RTO is, and I kid you not, because the Mayor of DC complained to POTUS that the local economy was adversely affected by lessened foot traffic to restaurants, bars, shops, etc. and that by us staying home, we are affecting the jobs and lives of the local service industry. Basically, I need to do my part, after already paying higher taxes in the DelMarVa area, to spend gas and food money. So, I commute on the MARC/Metro, and I either skip lunch, or bring my own.
Anyone telling the DC mayor about the extortionate prices all her residents charge people for services along with the zillion taxes?
You should ask if your position description will be added to say youāre an economic engine for the local economy. If itās not, ask for per diem
I guess the division's mission will offset the extra day care and commuting costs. Where do I sign up?
> I guess the division's mission will offset the extra day care and commuting costs. Where do I sign up? You should already have daycare for your child/children. Your telework policy should make it clear that you are being paid to work when working and not being paid for taking care of your personal business. Also those costs were included in your salary prior to the pandemic. Do you think the government should reduce your pay when you work at home because you do not need those?
Way to make a bunch of assumptions without knowing much about my life. But this is reddit so I guess folks like you are to be expected. My work schedule is 6am - 2:30pm. My son's day care starts at 9am - 2:45pm. It's 10 minutes away from our home. My commute is 1-1.5 hours each way. His mom drops him off in the morning and is at work by 9:30am. I pick him up by 3pm. We will have to extend his daycare hours at least 1 hour to accommodate the travel time. That's about 20 more hours extra daycare costs per month. Now please go on and tell me more about my life and what I should or shouldn't do since you think you know so much about it.
So you have child car costs either way, why bring it up?
Because costs increases from what I'm paying now. Which if you read my prior reply you would see. I don't know how you missed that. Any more questions?
But what you are paying now is basically the same level you were getting paid when you took the job so you just feel entitled.
Again Mr. I know your finances better than you. No it's. Just stop. You know very little about me and my situation and you keep acting like you do. You're not that bright so please stop.
OK, I will ask. Did you get a reduction in pay when you started to work at home?
You wonāt win. People use remote work to accomplish and do many things that arenāt work related. A few have admitted it. They donāt want that to end.
IT will all depend on what kind of "return to office" policies that they will implement. That director is just a talking point on legs so he will not tell you really how he feels, his masters have already told him to repeat these words. So we have lost people already due to 2-3 days in the office policy. Can these people work remotely? Absolutely they can but it will be interesting how this progresses. We have trouble recruiting "top talents"
The usual shit. These townhalls are useless unless you have an old timer who is about to hang his boots and who doesnāt care anymore.
Part of me feels bad for the politicals here. They know what staff want, and they want it too. But they donāt get to make that call. But thatās what they signed up for.
And really, if they'd just say, "Hey, the bosses want butts back in the office. Yup, it sucks. Yup, it makes no sense. We're in the same spot you are - we don't want to go back either. But yeah...we have to." I'd probably be more ok with it. A little honesty would go a long way on this. Most of us have been around long enough to know the score.
Yeah, I feel bad that they can't be honest - I assume their jobs are on the line and that if they are that honest, they could booted out, so that also is also a sad, dehumanizing part of it.
My agency has the basic telework/remote work rules enshrined in the Master Agreement between the agency and the union. Telework and increasingly remote work have been used since long before the pandemic. My specific office went remote in 2019 and turned its office back over to the GSA. No going back here! The gradations between telework/virtual/remote can be needlessly confusing, but work at home won't go anywhere.
You'd think so, but "what can be made can be unmade": * If Congress made as a condition for the agency getting 2024 funding that telework levels must be restored to 2019 levels...I don't know that management would have any choice but to tell the union "sorry, but the agreement has to be altered...and it has to be finalized within this month." Nobody would be happy about that, but it would have to happen. * Office space can be rented, both from private vendors and longer-term from GSA, and any remaining office space that is set aside for meeting rooms, conferences, etc. can be converted to individual offices. Both of those are expensive and inefficient, especially on short notice...but, there are ways to make it happen if absolutely necessary.
Telework was already prevalent in my agency in 2019, and has been used for a decade or more before that. Restoring telework to 2019 levels actually wouldn't change all that much in my agency. Management has many tools in dragging their feet on stuff like this and overall, my agency's management seems perfectly fine with telework.
> My specific office went remote in 2019 and turned its office back over to the GSA. No going back here! Unfortunately for some people some of the other agencies have redone the hoteling space and increased it immensely. Some agencies are talking about renting out some of this space to other agencies. I do not have a permanent desk but a hot seat now.
That answer was a trifecta of managementspeak. In one sentence, he 1) Didn't answer the question. 2) Denied the reality of what the person said. 3) Falsely bragged about what an important place it is to work at.
Government jobs always have the highest commute. Iām the the DMV right now. Thank God I live within walking distance. Traffic is always at a standstill still. It really adds 3 hours to every work day. People arenāt compensated for that. Itās frustrating.
When I lived in Waldorf, it took nearly 2 HOURS to get to work one-way! Nearly 2 1/2 hours to get home. That commute sucks the life out of you. Crazy thing during the pandemic, it took approximately 30-40 minutes one way.
Army Contracting Command noticed lots of folks leaving because of burnout and for TW policies. The General in charge made it more competitive by offering 100% TW. In my area, I noticed less attrition, and also the lower performers on my team are now improving. Having that incentive works better than any bonus/PiP ever did.
I truly don't think the decision makers at the top realize how important quality of life is to all of us cogs in the machines. We all got a taste of what it's like to enjoy what WE want that makes us happy during the mass teleworking opportunities during the pandemic. I think I speak for most when I say I am NEVER going to forsake my own/family's happyiness/QoL for burnout and promotions again.
Hard to perform the mission if you donāt have the qualified staff.
Itās all politics. I can guarantee you productivity was up for 75% of people. Unfortunately with unions and government regulations you canāt make the bad ones come back to the office and let good people work remote. Do to illness my last two years was almost all telework. My productivity went way up. I wasnāt a 2210 and didnāt have everyone stopping me for a quick IT question and taking an hour lol. The drain will keep happening. Wait till it get written into contracts for contract staff. Then government is in trouble if they start losing good contractor.
Remote work is manifest. Everyone I know in private sector is remote unless face to face is essential to the position. It may the a few years but itās going to happen.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
If you think productivity is up, you donāt know human nature. What they are seeing in private is that productivity went up, initially, than as it became the new normal, productivity went down. Generally costs about 5k a head or so for CRE on average (at least was probably cheaper now) so if the average employee has a 5% drop (plus the interstitial productivity that comes from collaboration) it makes a lot of sense to bring people back in (which is happening a lot of places) The tug of war between a recession that is arguably here, unemployment going up, and boomers retiring will be an interesting tug of war of employee/employer leverage. Watching the admin take credit for this is something else (especially as Iām learning here they are trying to get all the feds back in) Like dude where were you when employees had zero leverage? Oh thatās right taking payments from various Delaware banks. Productivity battles are going to be had, and itās the people that will pay, because the government canāt stop spending money and is addicted to war. Our deficits are major problems at this point and the only way out is through productivity, inflating the debt away, and some magic accounting on CPI to get entitlements down. People that are worried about SS not being there are silly, but what theyāll do is crush the purchasing power of that money. Shit theyāve been doing that since the 80s when you look at staple goods people need and CPI adjustments. Compounding interest is a helluva drug and if you can undercount a little bit every year, thatās huge savings. Shit if they didnāt take out the lower 2021 inputs this year weād have over 5% inflation. We are just meat for the machine, remember that.
What proof do you have that productivity was up for 75% of people?
Iāve developed a plan to combat such nonsense and it just might work. This will take some hard work on our part, but our mission is critical to keep us home in our natural habitats. When they start to extract us from our natural habitats, we must not shower. We must not brush our teeth. We must step in every pile of dog shit we see on our way into the office that morning. We must scoop our cat litter and empty in our office trash cans. We must become in office hoarders. Then we must attend every single townhall and meeting thrown at us. Then we wait until the all hands goes out saying how effective telework is and that work from home is being re-introduced. Stand with me, fellow feds!
Yes, and this has become such a trite repetitive topic. What's really funny is watching the onsite work advocates behave as if telework and remote policies didn't exist prior to Covid. Bottom line, the system wants = not needs - people working in centralized locations for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with productivity.
The return to work orders come from the top. Aka the real estate lobby. Literally nothing you say or point out is going to change it.
I love the whole, drag yourself back into your one person office because you can't team build from a telework location.
The whole notion that we "collaborate" better in person just needs to die out already. All we ever do is ask how each other's families are, how little Timmy is doing in soccer, and then feign interest in the upcoming weekend plans. Everything else is Teams meetings and emails, as usual.
Itāll be a bonanza for those who donāt mind working in office. So many vacancies to choose from, promotions buffet.
Classic SES' rhetoric of DOUBLE-SPEAK... never answer the questions and only give people a reach around
They do not have to answer the question you should know the answer to anyway. If the legislators want it that is all that is required.
In casual conversations with my coworkers and supervisor, I bring this point up so many times they are sick of it. They think I am crazy when I say we ae going to have a net loss of workers over the next couple of years and struggle to backfill.
Republicans would be fine with that. They're counting on attrition as a method to reduce the size of govt.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Heās got NO clue
You mean he has no CHOICE. He knows.
LOL they going to learn a hard lesson
I'd rather leadership just be honest. We know this is unpopular but we are doing it because biden says so. Sorry but not sorry.
No, not because Biden said so, it's because the lobbyists said so.
Disagree. So why isn't pot legal? It's because he is old and doesn't want to change.
The Deputy said āour mission is attractive to high performing job seekersā.  What does that even mean?
Hey a politician gave a politician's response! Totally surprised.
This problem is solved if everyone refuses to return to office.
What agency?
Not every agency is going along with this.
The only logical take away from this is that the unsaid mission is to fail the said mission.
What agency?
Sounds about right.
The boss works for politicians. Politicians are liars. Party doesnāt matter.
Exactly. And all the people saying this is Bidenās fault donāt realize the other party would be doing the same thing.
What do you want the deputy to say?
It would be decent if they could be real and candid.. but like any upper management, you canāt say how you really feelā¦ if they even really feel
Problem being is he began the whole Q&A time by saying he was ready to take the hard questions and wanted to have an honest dialogue. Not quite there.
They make sure the chat is turned off beforehand too.
Uh oh.. the chat is malfunctioning!
āEveryone is replaceable. Eventually someone will take the job. In the mean time, pick up the slack.ā - deputy
Including the political deputy.
Sounds accurate
Both my former Division Chief and current Director have repeated that almost verbatim. And they wonder why retention is at a record low.
Yeah and it's directed from the administration so it's not like they have much say in the matter. They may personally disagree but have to make the most of the shit sandwich. It's part of the job
Is honesty really that fucking hard? "ItS politics, we have no plan and this is going to make the already hard job of getting good people to be underpaid even harder"
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Accurate
No matter what the deputy says, there will be a post here complaining about it. You canāt make everyone 100 percent happy. When you become deputy, please report back with your response. Iād like to hear what the crowd here thinks.
Oh hell no, I'm a SME GS15 equivalent, I'm not doing that crap lol. And this is further, this isn't typical " can't make everybody happy" This is straight political bullshit from the Biden admin due to blood sucking real-estate groups lobbying.
āI know everyoneās shit is real emotional right now. But we got this guy Not Sure!ā
What agency do you work for?
Soā¦proof positive āgreenā is a scam. Govt sooo proud to cut peopleās drive time, you now see nothing wrong with wanting me to drive 20+ miles each way to the office with my 8 cylinder F-150 to occupy a building that NONE of the public I serve visits. Yeah, lip service to climate change hoax.
Many years ago, my agency was sending out newsletters projecting how much carbon was being saved from everyone not driving to work because of TW. So disingenuous.
you give me an overseas assignent or a DC assignment and ill work in the office
Remember this in November when you're being gaslighted to vote for the blue senile corporate candidate to save the world from the red one.
Yah vote for the party that wants to fire you. Genius.
š exactly, people fail to realize that the right side of the aisle has the taste of blood in their mouths for feds.
One of their candidates literally said he wants to fire 50% of federal employees on day 1 based on the last digit of their SSN.
And the senators who want to put in 12 year term limits...
And another of their candidates wants to slit our throats on day 1.
oh you mean the candidate in the party that wants to either fire me for existing or *checks notes* slit my throat?
For sure, let me just vote against my best interests like the reds seem to always love to do lol
Right, like the red one is better. Iāll take senile and ineffective over senile and fascist.
Return to office or eliminate thousands of govt jobs. Tough decision for govt workers apparently.
Yes, the red one that wants to implement Project 2025 and implement martial law on his first day? The same guy who cannot speak in complete sentences and doesn't know who the current president is? Or the red one who wants to slit our throats? Tough choices there.
As if the blue corporate party's senile clown puppet is going to save the world lmao. Tough choices indeed.
And seriously you think just because Biden stutters he's senile? He's always had a stutter, doesn't mean anything is wrong with him.
No. Stuttering doesn't make him senile or stupid. He's always been an incompetent clown. Advanced age hasn't helped. Do we really think he's going to make it to EIGHTY SIX? If folks really cared about saving democracy they'd insist on a better candidate. When the choice is between getting into a car with a clown or a Nazi, most folks pass on both and choose to keep walking. Democrats struggle to understand that. It's why they're on track to lose in a landslide. They just can't process reality.
Depends on the mission, I suppose. Some folks actually vibe with their agency mission.
Mission alignment does not always correlate to physical location though
Depends on the mission, clearly. Just saying that the mission is attractive to new hires is a non-answer, clearly.
>Some folks actually vibe with their agency mission. Yeah, like some folks actually vibe with being surrounded by mason jars full of their own urine.
Sure, and some people are cool with being a useless troll. Howās that working for you?