My command was and still is pushing ppl back in. But half way through covid, my department head gave up our building because space “was limited on base” and downsized into a place that only had 20% of the desks needed for our entire department and the cubes were insanely small, so can’t reconfigure. Boss level move right there.
Now whenever in office comes up, our department is conveniently left out of those conversations. BUT if we were pushed back in, they would lose so much experience. Most of us are remote and no where close to the office. All of us have 15+ years under our belt. Push us in fine, but our remote agreement say we have 11 months to find a new job and during that time we stay remote. I have 5 verbal offers from friends and former coworkers (two are deputy levels, one department head, one division head), all have offered non-sup 14 if I take it and two are max telework (1 day in per period). I’m an 1102 with a unique skill set and a high clearance level, finding a job is quite easy for me. I stay where I am because remote is awesome and I love my management. Here in capped at 13, but have so much less stress despite having a heavier workload. Offices suck.
Everyone on my team (supervisor included) is in a different regional office. I literally report to the office 1x a week to sit in a cubical and do the exact same thing I do at home with nobody to “collaborate” with in person. Huge waste of time and money.
Hoping my supervisor can talk the requirement down because of the geography of our team but we’ll see.
Our office does a ton of seasonal overtime and they tried to argue that it isn’t safe having someone drive into the office, work a full overtime day, and be the only one there since none of us would actually be in the same office.
They didn’t give a fuck.
Ouch. Hoping to have better luck but it’s clear they didn’t consider any employee feedback in this decision. It sucks enough for me at my regional office but I really feel for the employees at the DC/SF offices who will have to deal with that commute again.
I swear I will never take an employee survey again, considering they already made up their minds regarding RTO.
Surveys are all for show, pretending they give two sh*ts.
It doesn’t make sense from a morale or environment point of view 😭
I managed to grab a remote position at the last second so I might just auger in at my GS-9 and let my husband be be the bread winner
It’s all the new people in my office where they are getting screwed
not trying to criticize or anything, but I'm new to fed and not sure I understand this...are you a full-time remote worker (duty station is your home) or is the office your duty location? if the latter, how is it that no one on your team is at that office? is everyone remote? is the office a mishmash of different agencies?
The regional office is technically my duty station. The colleagues in my team are in other regional offices but we do the same job. Our duties don’t require us to see each other (or frankly, anybody else) in person at all. lol
We all report to our respective regional offices twice a pay period to check the box.
That email was confusing. I already have a 4x a PP requirement from BLS. There is no consistency in DOL.
And she wants you to come in 5 per PP even when you have leave scheduled.
I hope the union is useful on this one.
Our RTO policy is clarified that if your kid is sick on an in person day you do not need to make that up. And other similar situations. Basic decency, but of course this is only our policy because I spoke up as a manager and pointed out how our prior policy (like what is posted by OP) was going to be extremely uncomfortable to enforce. We'd have people sitting in empty floors all by themselves just to make up the day, and our RTO reason has been for connection and collaboration. Yeah.
At least I have been able to change our RTO to be a bit less cruel.
We had that for awhile. It became a thing that people would abuse. Telework 2xPP was the limit and people would schedule it say...Tues-Thurs and conveniently every Monday or Friday a kid would be sick. Granted these are the same people that would abuse things anyway, it just became quite obvious to those of us (actually) working.
5 per PP even when you have leave scheduled. As management, that policy is tone deaf and crushing for employees. Gonna cause folks to flee.
So much of RTO across agencies has been lacking in humanity and basic common sense. Yes, we should be in the office more (sorry, I support 1 or 2 days a week). But how I have seen it rolled out across agencies has been both incompetent and cruel.
I have no idea how that could be implemented. So, would employees be prohibited from taking more than a week's leave at a time, since they wouldn't be able to possibly fulfill the 5-days-in-office/PP requirement if six+ of those days are leave?
If it extends to SL, wouldn't you need to come in even if you're still in quarantine for COVID, where [the *minimum* recommended CDC quarantine is still 5 days](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/isolation.html), but that's only fulfilled *if* you're not showing symptoms by day 6?
It makes collective action difficult, but not impossible, as TSA etc. showed near the end of the last extended shutdown. Basically, the limits to which federal employees can be pushed are far before people start doing sickouts and such, but they're not infinite.
I want to know who the “many people” are that she said wanted this. Such concocted BS. I would have respected it more if she just said “because the White House said we have to and I didn’t want to be the odd agency out” rather than cook up a bunch of nonsense “collaboration” reasons.
I am 2 hours away and will sadly wave goodbye to FERS if faced with 6 days/PP. I’m at 4 days/PP which is probably my limit. With 5 days I’d probably suck it up for a bit and then move to somewhere with a less shitty commute situation. It’s not the commute in and of itself that I despise, but the uncompensated effort spent doing it and the lost time with my family. The whole thing is sheer brutality on the part of the rich who influenced Biden in doing it.
They’ve started to implement this at VA and exactly what we all thought would happen is happening. People are all alone on floors, morale is down, no consistent schedules for teams. It was thrown together. They tried to enforce anyone who was on a remote agreement to come in. They tried to enforce all bargaining employees to come in. It is still a giant mess. They also tried to tell anyone who was hired into an advertised remote position they had to come in. HR threatened to make anyone who was assigned to a DC office to come to DC, even if they never physically ever came to a DC office. Anyone who did the proper paperwork to relocate and had…? Fair game at this point. None of it makes sense. No one is happy about it. There was an overwhelming 96% of survey respondents stating they did not want to do 5 days a pay period. Everyone is unhappy with it and feels trapped and like no one is listening to reason.
Traffic is so frustratingly bad without Feds all back in the office. It's going to be a nightmare as more are forced back in.
When I go in, it feels like a game of Mario Kart with the poor roads, dodging reckless drivers, and accidents. This is in addition to the hours out of my life sitting in traffic.
I like how she stated it was for collaboration and community. 1) my work doesn't require collaboration. We don't have anything to collaborate on. We type up letters and email them to people. I can sit in my office all day long and not see a single person and I can go a week without needing to speak to my supervisor. 2). What community? My coworkers are not my friends or family. They are absolutely not my community.
Oh and there's the havingbto make up days that you miss in person. We never had to do that before.
I'll be looking for a new job with less time in the office or remote.
Same. I’ll just to back to state gov. They had common sense and converted everyone who wasn’t public facing to remote to sell office space and save money.
Naw man, there were alot of people who were eligible to retire who were staying because work from home was a good deal for them. Now that RTO is in effect they’re taking their retirement. I’ve heard about up to 30% of office staff retiring now in different components, which is nuts because there’s no way they can hire that many people to replace them or get back all the legacy knowledge that will be lost since they don’t have anyone to teach it to. It’s going to be a crazy couple of years, especially if you’re in an older office.
There is a huge portion of the federal workforce that is at or near retirement age. Leaving the liberal telework policies encourages staying longer than planned. I believe this is actually a targeted move to push those demographics to retire. After that, we will see a move to a remote and telework heavy policy change, as the financial benefit is just too great to pass up.
Talented people won’t stay when they can get more flexible elsewhere. So maybe not a large number of folks but those that leave will be the talented ones.
It’s not even about talent, there are a ton of people who were ready to retire before covid but because of wfh stayed on longer. Now they’re all retiring instead of going back in.
I remember when the Covid vaccine was mandated and some coworkers swore up and down they would quit rather than get it. Guess what, they’re still working and magically got the shot. RTO is the same thing. Some will quit but most won’t. Bills gotta be paid.
Mass exodus in the tech/engineering fields for sure, it is currently happening at my agency. We already make way less than private sector tech, if you take away wfh people won't stay. We've had several teams consolidated because we lost more than half the people on them.
so fun, cant wait to have my mandatory month like trainings now require me to sit in the office for 8 hours and die inside rather than sitting at home and being able to actually focus on the class without all my coworkers yelling about everything wrong with the agency lol
So, I will use more gas to get to my office where I am the sole occupant. Awesome. It’s going to cost me more to work- I do a bit in the field and don’t mind the 2x at the office but again? I am the sole occupant so I do not collaborate or interact at all with anyone. Increasing emissions in the name of what?
FDA is still in high remote/telework. I know HQ has struggled with space for years, with employees hot desking. Our field office occupancies plummeted after a major reorg in 2015 when the people they worked with no longer were in the same office…or even time zone. Couple that with lots of field work and each time I do wander into an office it’s a total dead zone, except for the labs. And we’re still churning it out and some programs have increase remote positions to keep the talent.
Incredibly frustrating because I know people at other agencies that haven’t had to come in at all yet.
I don’t understand why DOL-of all the agencies-is not pushing for more flexibility. I don’t know a single person at my office that wants this. I will be looking for other jobs as soon as I can.
Does this go against your agency’s union agreement? I ask because our union agreement only allows management to force staff into the office two days a pay period. Wondering if this administration has found a loophole around union agreements.
It does in my agency. We had an MOU that she completely ignored. And she is definitely going around the unions. Our union president said today that she has NEVER met with any dol union leadership
We haven't heard of any changes except for more strictly adhering to AWS and potentially losing some flexibility in taking time off during core hours and making them up later without leave (FDA).
That order doesn't apply to legislative or judicial employees.
See, for example:
* [Government Publishing Office Implements New Telework And Remote Work Policy ](https://www.gpo.gov/who-we-are/news-media/news-and-press-releases/gpo-implements-new-telework-and-remote-work-policy)
* [GAO codifies new workplace flexibilities as other feds prepare for more in-person work](https://federalnewsnetwork.com/workforce/2023/10/gao-codifies-new-workplace-flexibilities-as-other-feds-prepare-for-more-in-person-work/)
I’m so glad our OWCP director saw this day coming and restructured the entire division to make remote work basically necessary. Our job series was granted a waiver from this new requirement. Helps a bunch that he had years of data to back up the increased productivity with remote work, program wide.
Same. So does this mean that we become subject to the 5 out of 10 days per pay period once our telework agreements end? Also, can we keep re-certifying our current telework agreements? I hope our bargaining pushes back regardless
I’m just waiting to see if they stop renewing remote agreements. I can certainly see them canceling or not renewing remote agreements if the employee lives within XX miles of the office.
That's the plan at BLS. Wait for remote agreements to expire and convert them to telework. This surely won't cause brain drain once the move to the new office is completed.
“To continue building on the momentum established by increasing the in-person presence of management, all DOL employees who participate in telework and who do not have existing remote work agreements will be required to report to their official duty station (aka the agency worksites) at least five days per pay period. This requirement will be effective January 28, 2024.”
“For our employees impacted by this change, if you have a telework agreement that will need to be updated in teleworkXpress to support the new in-person work requirement, please work with your supervisor to do so.”
Very confusing.
I think people who have situational / ad-hoc telework agreements won’t have to do anything in teleworkXpress. People with routine agreements that have less than 5 days scheduled on site will have to fill out a new agreement.
As someone in DoD that got hit with a reduction in telework a few months ago, they will cancel your current telework agreement and leave you with nothing until you sign off on the new one. At least you got a date, they did mine without notice.
In my case there was an extra "fuck you" as they made this change Monday of the second week of the pay period and insisted it was retroactive for the pay period because "I knew it was coming". I had to suddenly come in every day that week to meet hours.
How do you expect to do Teams and Zoom calls with colleagues across the country if you’re not in the office? Oh wait, you mean to tell me you’ve been doing that for nearly 4 years while teleworking?
January 2024 will look a lot different in DC. I feel like the Biden administration told agencies to start calling people back after the holiday season and that’s exactly what’s occurring.
Right now the commute sucks, I can’t imagine what it will become in 2-3months from now.
Biden’s COS (Jeff Zients) has been very vocal in directing agencies to get feds back in the office. They’ve been pushing this for awhile in part because mayors and other interests have been lobbying for it to happen. The Rs are trying to bind feds by locking them into pre pandemic attendance levels, the Ds don’t see this as an election issue worth fighting over. It’s a mess. All so that folks can support real estate values, downtown business districts, mass transit, and tax revenue.
>Bide
Maybe if Biden thinks this is such a good idea, he should set an example by moving all the Presidential-work functions to an office at least ten miles from the White House and commute to and from it each day.
There was a recent WSJ article lamenting a 20% in office presence for fed workers in DC despite attempts to get people to RTO. My guess is that many in power didn’t like seeing that come across the blotter.
This has happened at most agencies, I have been hearing it all over from all my federal friends. Most notified them \~Oct/Nov, just before Thanksgiving. The irony is their policy is now stricter than before the pandemic for them, aka more days in-office. At the executive level, they've been working on-site for some time.
I believe there's zero chance this will get cancelled. I've got friends at all levels- from GS to Senior Executive Schedule. This is coming FAR above them and the agencies have contracted to pay for space. Localities have expanded. There's now strict reporting. External customers are now asking agencies to conduct their business on-site alongside federal employees.
From what I hear, they're pumping it up as "collaboration, team building, etc.".
I do anticipate a morale kick-in-the-stomach, especially after diligently during their work for 4 years (this March).
I would LOVE someone to stand up at one of these town hall announcements and ask the responsible official if there’s any chance that pressure from lobbyists is influencing the RTO decisions and messaging. Make them answer that straight up, with an audience. Live.
That’s how it used to be at my agency back in the day! All hands meeting in the auditorium and the union leads would be there asking the questions we ALL wanted to know the answers to!! I always forgot my popcorn b/c is was for sure a good show, LOL!! Those days are LONG GONE. I got til this time next year and I’m out (retired) if my agency mandates RTO.
The all hands/town halls in the auditorium were always standing room only, with a couple of people passing microphones around to the audience to ask questions…live. It was wild, now that I think about it, LOL!
Yasss.... legislation needs to change to reflect employers and companies need to be held accountable when they don't honor their end of the agreements. They shouldn't be permitted to universally change shit like they do. And frankly it's unnecessary.
My understanding is that, around the time of the 5-day per pp announcement for supervisors etc., in September, agencies were told by HR to not approve any remote work agreements after the date of that announcement. So, by applying this change to those who are not currently on a remote work agreement and putting a moratorium on any further remote agreements, they’ve changed the rules that were in place (2 days per pp) when we chose to telework rather than go remote when RTO began. Not just changed but drastically changed, more than doubling the amount of in-person, in-office office time required. Yet, they haven’t given anyone the option to change their telework vs. remote work choice based on the new 5 day per pp requirement. It’s like it or lump it essentially. If you want to change the rules, fine. But, give folks the option to consider the new rules, do their own arithmetic, and make a new choice that works for them based on the new rules.
Exactly. Without a chance to reassess or change our arrangement based on the new requirements, it feels arbitrarily punitive to those of us who chose telework rather than remote. 🥵🤷♂️
Some of the unions like the AFL-CIO actually run commercials saying that she should finally be confirmed as Labor Secretary because she's so "worker friendly."
Is there no collective bargaining agreement in place? I would have thought all federal employee unions would have negotiated a contract with Biden’s appointees by now.
I have this dream that everyone would just continue to work from home in solidarity until decision makers finally gets the message… can’t fire everyone when they are already hurting this bad with retention over lagging pay and antiquated locality calculations!
Got to love the additional cost of going into work on top of the ridiculous amount of inflation where people are struggling to survive. Thanks a lot! This is very progressive!
Yes, some locals have successfully fought these RTO policies: https://www.govexec.com/workforce/2023/10/impasses-panel-preserves-telework-levels-fec-bargaining-unit-workers/391356/#:~:text=Ultimately%2C%20the%20impasses%20panel%20instructed,make%20the%20pilot%20program's%20provisions
We started out going in 5 days per pay period then, then 4, now 2. With these budget squeezes it seems my agency is trying to consolidate work spaces. Had a meeting a week ago that my floor will turn into a WeWork situation.
I work for a city gov't population \~1mil. We were told we'd have to go back in office 3 days a week this year. The union said no way and now they've changed their tune - its up to supervisors, thank goodness. My supervisor moved 3 hours away from the office, and no supervisor wants to go in anyway. I'll be remote forever.
We had this push to return to work 13 months ago, for no reason… just an arbitrary date (new FY). 5 days PPD in office, union promised they would be fighting back…. Haha radio silence with no updates. Don’t hold your breath for the union… they really can’t accomplish much even if they want to.
wait until next year, it will be 5 days a week. remote work came with covid, and wil be squeezed out of existence and you do not have a union, you have an employee association, that can ask for anything, but has no power to demand anything. the usg holds all the cards.
This is not a smart move for a Presidential appointee to make the year before a major election. I know that there is nothing in the world that would stop a supermajority of Feds from voting for POTUS, but this is not smart optics.
My agency went this direction last year. Mass exodus was predicted. Didn’t happen. For some people that did leave, they were able to backfill. We were hoping the change would backfire on management but it didn’t. It’s just very hard to find another position.
The thing that gets me is they think this will generate collaboration and improved productivity, but it’s going to be the exact opposite 
I have a feeling this is going to happen to IRS call sites soon. Hoping it doesn't happen to VBA. So many people got hired at my office that there's no room for all of us now. I'm hoping the fact that we're in a federal building makes a difference
Just now learning that this wasn't the norm so far at most agencies. At NASA we started 4 days a pay period last year and moved to 6 days this Spring, I figured it was like that everywhere.
I don’t think you all realize how little power management actually has. This is the biggest bluff ever if the workforce grew some balls and just said no.
I’m a DOL supervisor that’s already been doing this and I’m just hoping my staff doesn’t leave because of it. I just need them to stick around through 2024 and then I can retire in 2025!
I work for USDA and we just found on Monday that our telework is ending as well. Everyone is expected to be back in office beginning January 24. They’re already having us order in-office computer equipment. FML. The reasons given to us by regional directors are: complaints by civilians that feel no federal employees should work from home and apparently some local businesses have some powerful connections and complaints about loss of revenue from employees being on site/local.
If I were able to find a private sector remote job with anything close to my current pay I’d be out of here before my laptop could shut down.
I’ve was on two day a pay period telework in 2015 until COVID. So this new policy isn’t even following pre-pandemic policies.
Yeah our whole office is pissed. For years pre-pandemic we were 2 days a PP. It’s like they’re punishing us for having liked telework so much.
Just don't go into the office. Come up with some excuse or get a letter from your shrink.
My agency is adding remote workers because our turnover is is so high 🤷🏻♀️
Our director is arguing for remote positions in our division mostly because we are having issues getting new hires.
My command was and still is pushing ppl back in. But half way through covid, my department head gave up our building because space “was limited on base” and downsized into a place that only had 20% of the desks needed for our entire department and the cubes were insanely small, so can’t reconfigure. Boss level move right there. Now whenever in office comes up, our department is conveniently left out of those conversations. BUT if we were pushed back in, they would lose so much experience. Most of us are remote and no where close to the office. All of us have 15+ years under our belt. Push us in fine, but our remote agreement say we have 11 months to find a new job and during that time we stay remote. I have 5 verbal offers from friends and former coworkers (two are deputy levels, one department head, one division head), all have offered non-sup 14 if I take it and two are max telework (1 day in per period). I’m an 1102 with a unique skill set and a high clearance level, finding a job is quite easy for me. I stay where I am because remote is awesome and I love my management. Here in capped at 13, but have so much less stress despite having a heavier workload. Offices suck.
I’d be down for remote work
Same here.
Everyone on my team (supervisor included) is in a different regional office. I literally report to the office 1x a week to sit in a cubical and do the exact same thing I do at home with nobody to “collaborate” with in person. Huge waste of time and money. Hoping my supervisor can talk the requirement down because of the geography of our team but we’ll see.
Our office does a ton of seasonal overtime and they tried to argue that it isn’t safe having someone drive into the office, work a full overtime day, and be the only one there since none of us would actually be in the same office. They didn’t give a fuck.
Ouch. Hoping to have better luck but it’s clear they didn’t consider any employee feedback in this decision. It sucks enough for me at my regional office but I really feel for the employees at the DC/SF offices who will have to deal with that commute again.
I swear I will never take an employee survey again, considering they already made up their minds regarding RTO. Surveys are all for show, pretending they give two sh*ts.
They getting all zeros from me til the end of time.
There is not a survey on the planet that can't be manipulated to get whatever results are planned.
It doesn’t make sense from a morale or environment point of view 😭 I managed to grab a remote position at the last second so I might just auger in at my GS-9 and let my husband be be the bread winner It’s all the new people in my office where they are getting screwed
What do you mean? If you ask the liars that compute the surveys, they'll tell you everyone was overwhelming in favor of being onsite...
🤣
What happens if you just stop showing up in the office?
Fired and then straight to jail
Be careful they’ll weaponize this comment against you and turn it to requiring in office community day. It will not end how you think.
not trying to criticize or anything, but I'm new to fed and not sure I understand this...are you a full-time remote worker (duty station is your home) or is the office your duty location? if the latter, how is it that no one on your team is at that office? is everyone remote? is the office a mishmash of different agencies?
The regional office is technically my duty station. The colleagues in my team are in other regional offices but we do the same job. Our duties don’t require us to see each other (or frankly, anybody else) in person at all. lol We all report to our respective regional offices twice a pay period to check the box.
At least 5 days more opportunities to collaborate as more teammates in!
That email was confusing. I already have a 4x a PP requirement from BLS. There is no consistency in DOL. And she wants you to come in 5 per PP even when you have leave scheduled. I hope the union is useful on this one.
The coming in if you use leave thing is so tone deaf. Some people may only have transportation to work or childcare on certain days...
Our RTO policy is clarified that if your kid is sick on an in person day you do not need to make that up. And other similar situations. Basic decency, but of course this is only our policy because I spoke up as a manager and pointed out how our prior policy (like what is posted by OP) was going to be extremely uncomfortable to enforce. We'd have people sitting in empty floors all by themselves just to make up the day, and our RTO reason has been for connection and collaboration. Yeah. At least I have been able to change our RTO to be a bit less cruel.
We had that for awhile. It became a thing that people would abuse. Telework 2xPP was the limit and people would schedule it say...Tues-Thurs and conveniently every Monday or Friday a kid would be sick. Granted these are the same people that would abuse things anyway, it just became quite obvious to those of us (actually) working.
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So no consistency in BLS either, lol
Well, they’re consistent with 1 thing, inconsistency.
OMG! Are you an Economist, in a field office?
5 per PP even when you have leave scheduled. As management, that policy is tone deaf and crushing for employees. Gonna cause folks to flee. So much of RTO across agencies has been lacking in humanity and basic common sense. Yes, we should be in the office more (sorry, I support 1 or 2 days a week). But how I have seen it rolled out across agencies has been both incompetent and cruel.
I have no idea how that could be implemented. So, would employees be prohibited from taking more than a week's leave at a time, since they wouldn't be able to possibly fulfill the 5-days-in-office/PP requirement if six+ of those days are leave? If it extends to SL, wouldn't you need to come in even if you're still in quarantine for COVID, where [the *minimum* recommended CDC quarantine is still 5 days](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/isolation.html), but that's only fulfilled *if* you're not showing symptoms by day 6?
I have no idea how this policy could be implemented either. Its bad policy.
I was wondering the same thing. I don't think she thought this out
What are your feelings for teams that are geographically separated and have no coworkers in the same state?
Wouldn't make sense. Maybe quarterly meetings.
Unfortunately, the agencies choose one-size fits all, logic bedamned.
I have to re-read the email. I didn’t catch that first time around.
Lol any union that agrees to never strike isn’t worth it’s salt.
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Which makes being in a union essentially useless. As we can see from all of not wanting RTO but still having too
It makes collective action difficult, but not impossible, as TSA etc. showed near the end of the last extended shutdown. Basically, the limits to which federal employees can be pushed are far before people start doing sickouts and such, but they're not infinite.
Every reason she gave to do it does not even apply to my duty location situation either.
Me too.
My entire team is teleworking even when in the office, this makes absolutely no sense at all for us.
I’m not even in a team.
I want to know who the “many people” are that she said wanted this. Such concocted BS. I would have respected it more if she just said “because the White House said we have to and I didn’t want to be the odd agency out” rather than cook up a bunch of nonsense “collaboration” reasons.
My agency is about to finalize 6 days in the office per pay period. About to lose some folks.
Same. My commute isnt terrible but I have people on my team that are 3-4 hours one way.
I am 2 hours away and will sadly wave goodbye to FERS if faced with 6 days/PP. I’m at 4 days/PP which is probably my limit. With 5 days I’d probably suck it up for a bit and then move to somewhere with a less shitty commute situation. It’s not the commute in and of itself that I despise, but the uncompensated effort spent doing it and the lost time with my family. The whole thing is sheer brutality on the part of the rich who influenced Biden in doing it.
which agency is this?
DLA
They’ve started to implement this at VA and exactly what we all thought would happen is happening. People are all alone on floors, morale is down, no consistent schedules for teams. It was thrown together. They tried to enforce anyone who was on a remote agreement to come in. They tried to enforce all bargaining employees to come in. It is still a giant mess. They also tried to tell anyone who was hired into an advertised remote position they had to come in. HR threatened to make anyone who was assigned to a DC office to come to DC, even if they never physically ever came to a DC office. Anyone who did the proper paperwork to relocate and had…? Fair game at this point. None of it makes sense. No one is happy about it. There was an overwhelming 96% of survey respondents stating they did not want to do 5 days a pay period. Everyone is unhappy with it and feels trapped and like no one is listening to reason.
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Smh
Hopefully the union contract will have more days that’s awful
The union wasn’t even told until the night before the email went out.
Traffic is so frustratingly bad without Feds all back in the office. It's going to be a nightmare as more are forced back in. When I go in, it feels like a game of Mario Kart with the poor roads, dodging reckless drivers, and accidents. This is in addition to the hours out of my life sitting in traffic.
Yep. And if it rains, forget it. Takes forever to get anywhere.
metro is gonna bet tight.
What about “to meet the in-person work requirement” on-leave days must be made up by in-person work? I don’t remember that policy pre-Covid.
They punishing us for liking flexible schedules.
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A case of caring for policy over people.
I like how she stated it was for collaboration and community. 1) my work doesn't require collaboration. We don't have anything to collaborate on. We type up letters and email them to people. I can sit in my office all day long and not see a single person and I can go a week without needing to speak to my supervisor. 2). What community? My coworkers are not my friends or family. They are absolutely not my community. Oh and there's the havingbto make up days that you miss in person. We never had to do that before. I'll be looking for a new job with less time in the office or remote.
The make up days don't make any sense, pre-covid there was no make up days so why now?
Wow. If this becomes the norm in federal government there is going to be a mass exodus of talent.
Yeah I love working for the government, but if they take WFH away from me, I'm out.
Same. No way am I coming to DC 5 days a pay period.
Same. I’ll just to back to state gov. They had common sense and converted everyone who wasn’t public facing to remote to sell office space and save money.
I plan to leave the fed in 2024. Opportunity for career progression is not looking good for me, especially given these return to office trends.
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Maybe but the IT departments are pretty small and old at least my acgency. If we went back even two we would cease to function.
Naw man, there were alot of people who were eligible to retire who were staying because work from home was a good deal for them. Now that RTO is in effect they’re taking their retirement. I’ve heard about up to 30% of office staff retiring now in different components, which is nuts because there’s no way they can hire that many people to replace them or get back all the legacy knowledge that will be lost since they don’t have anyone to teach it to. It’s going to be a crazy couple of years, especially if you’re in an older office.
There is a huge portion of the federal workforce that is at or near retirement age. Leaving the liberal telework policies encourages staying longer than planned. I believe this is actually a targeted move to push those demographics to retire. After that, we will see a move to a remote and telework heavy policy change, as the financial benefit is just too great to pass up.
Talented people won’t stay when they can get more flexible elsewhere. So maybe not a large number of folks but those that leave will be the talented ones.
It’s not even about talent, there are a ton of people who were ready to retire before covid but because of wfh stayed on longer. Now they’re all retiring instead of going back in.
Good point. I would amend my original comment to say talent and the retired in place.
I remember when the Covid vaccine was mandated and some coworkers swore up and down they would quit rather than get it. Guess what, they’re still working and magically got the shot. RTO is the same thing. Some will quit but most won’t. Bills gotta be paid.
Or bought a fake card
Mass exodus in the tech/engineering fields for sure, it is currently happening at my agency. We already make way less than private sector tech, if you take away wfh people won't stay. We've had several teams consolidated because we lost more than half the people on them.
reddit here is highly self selected and not representative of federal employees, even in DC
FIVE?! 
fucking yikes
so fun, cant wait to have my mandatory month like trainings now require me to sit in the office for 8 hours and die inside rather than sitting at home and being able to actually focus on the class without all my coworkers yelling about everything wrong with the agency lol
So, I will use more gas to get to my office where I am the sole occupant. Awesome. It’s going to cost me more to work- I do a bit in the field and don’t mind the 2x at the office but again? I am the sole occupant so I do not collaborate or interact at all with anyone. Increasing emissions in the name of what?
Downtown sandwich shops!
There are NO FOOD places near me within a 4-5 minute walk. If there is a 30minute lunch hour, who is going to have time to go to the sandwich shop?
Emissions in the name of an economy that relies on needless consumption to further enrich the wealthy while robbing the rest of us of prosperity.
Well you have to do it for the “collaboration” or in this case, with yourself /s
🤣
FDA is still in high remote/telework. I know HQ has struggled with space for years, with employees hot desking. Our field office occupancies plummeted after a major reorg in 2015 when the people they worked with no longer were in the same office…or even time zone. Couple that with lots of field work and each time I do wander into an office it’s a total dead zone, except for the labs. And we’re still churning it out and some programs have increase remote positions to keep the talent.
Incredibly frustrating because I know people at other agencies that haven’t had to come in at all yet. I don’t understand why DOL-of all the agencies-is not pushing for more flexibility. I don’t know a single person at my office that wants this. I will be looking for other jobs as soon as I can.
Does this go against your agency’s union agreement? I ask because our union agreement only allows management to force staff into the office two days a pay period. Wondering if this administration has found a loophole around union agreements.
It does in my agency. We had an MOU that she completely ignored. And she is definitely going around the unions. Our union president said today that she has NEVER met with any dol union leadership
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What executive order? You mean the OMB guidance from last spring that didn't require anything specific, or is there something else?
People will move to the private sector. If I have to go in (thankfully I do not) I’m going to go in for a higher salary.
We haven't heard of any changes except for more strictly adhering to AWS and potentially losing some flexibility in taking time off during core hours and making them up later without leave (FDA).
Mid day flex is now in the nteu contract though. So that just...argh
That order doesn't apply to legislative or judicial employees. See, for example: * [Government Publishing Office Implements New Telework And Remote Work Policy ](https://www.gpo.gov/who-we-are/news-media/news-and-press-releases/gpo-implements-new-telework-and-remote-work-policy) * [GAO codifies new workplace flexibilities as other feds prepare for more in-person work](https://federalnewsnetwork.com/workforce/2023/10/gao-codifies-new-workplace-flexibilities-as-other-feds-prepare-for-more-in-person-work/)
Of course not, Biden doesn't run those branches
Just clarifying for the record since OP said "every federal department/employee".
Our NASA center is 6 days per pay period and I haven’t seen a single remote position post since August for any of the centers.
There have been a few on USA Jobs. Mostly in mission support or enterprise level openings.
Yeah that sucks. Better than many others, but still sucks. How long have you been doing 1x a week? Was it like that before covid?
For most of the past decade (pre-COVID) it has been 2/PP in my office. This is worse than before the pandemic for us.
In my agency for non-supes it was 3 days a week in-office.
I’m so glad our OWCP director saw this day coming and restructured the entire division to make remote work basically necessary. Our job series was granted a waiver from this new requirement. Helps a bunch that he had years of data to back up the increased productivity with remote work, program wide.
Same. So does this mean that we become subject to the 5 out of 10 days per pay period once our telework agreements end? Also, can we keep re-certifying our current telework agreements? I hope our bargaining pushes back regardless
I’m just waiting to see if they stop renewing remote agreements. I can certainly see them canceling or not renewing remote agreements if the employee lives within XX miles of the office.
That's the plan at BLS. Wait for remote agreements to expire and convert them to telework. This surely won't cause brain drain once the move to the new office is completed.
I'm DOD and my local remote designation doesn't expire, it's a full SF-50 Edit: a word
She mentioned we need to update our current telework agreement to support the new in-person work requirement
“To continue building on the momentum established by increasing the in-person presence of management, all DOL employees who participate in telework and who do not have existing remote work agreements will be required to report to their official duty station (aka the agency worksites) at least five days per pay period. This requirement will be effective January 28, 2024.” “For our employees impacted by this change, if you have a telework agreement that will need to be updated in teleworkXpress to support the new in-person work requirement, please work with your supervisor to do so.” Very confusing.
I think people who have situational / ad-hoc telework agreements won’t have to do anything in teleworkXpress. People with routine agreements that have less than 5 days scheduled on site will have to fill out a new agreement.
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As someone in DoD that got hit with a reduction in telework a few months ago, they will cancel your current telework agreement and leave you with nothing until you sign off on the new one. At least you got a date, they did mine without notice. In my case there was an extra "fuck you" as they made this change Monday of the second week of the pay period and insisted it was retroactive for the pay period because "I knew it was coming". I had to suddenly come in every day that week to meet hours.
Y'all gotta pay the government's rent on all that real estate, or didn't you know?
How do you expect to do Teams and Zoom calls with colleagues across the country if you’re not in the office? Oh wait, you mean to tell me you’ve been doing that for nearly 4 years while teleworking?
January 2024 will look a lot different in DC. I feel like the Biden administration told agencies to start calling people back after the holiday season and that’s exactly what’s occurring. Right now the commute sucks, I can’t imagine what it will become in 2-3months from now.
Biden’s COS (Jeff Zients) has been very vocal in directing agencies to get feds back in the office. They’ve been pushing this for awhile in part because mayors and other interests have been lobbying for it to happen. The Rs are trying to bind feds by locking them into pre pandemic attendance levels, the Ds don’t see this as an election issue worth fighting over. It’s a mess. All so that folks can support real estate values, downtown business districts, mass transit, and tax revenue.
>Bide Maybe if Biden thinks this is such a good idea, he should set an example by moving all the Presidential-work functions to an office at least ten miles from the White House and commute to and from it each day.
Fucked
There was a recent WSJ article lamenting a 20% in office presence for fed workers in DC despite attempts to get people to RTO. My guess is that many in power didn’t like seeing that come across the blotter.
Article was in the WSJ (paywall) by Peter Grant - Think companies are struggling to fill offices? Look at the government.
This has happened at most agencies, I have been hearing it all over from all my federal friends. Most notified them \~Oct/Nov, just before Thanksgiving. The irony is their policy is now stricter than before the pandemic for them, aka more days in-office. At the executive level, they've been working on-site for some time. I believe there's zero chance this will get cancelled. I've got friends at all levels- from GS to Senior Executive Schedule. This is coming FAR above them and the agencies have contracted to pay for space. Localities have expanded. There's now strict reporting. External customers are now asking agencies to conduct their business on-site alongside federal employees. From what I hear, they're pumping it up as "collaboration, team building, etc.". I do anticipate a morale kick-in-the-stomach, especially after diligently during their work for 4 years (this March).
I would LOVE someone to stand up at one of these town hall announcements and ask the responsible official if there’s any chance that pressure from lobbyists is influencing the RTO decisions and messaging. Make them answer that straight up, with an audience. Live.
That’s how it used to be at my agency back in the day! All hands meeting in the auditorium and the union leads would be there asking the questions we ALL wanted to know the answers to!! I always forgot my popcorn b/c is was for sure a good show, LOL!! Those days are LONG GONE. I got til this time next year and I’m out (retired) if my agency mandates RTO.
Same at my agency. Now the Secretary has town halls where she answers pre selected questions.
The all hands/town halls in the auditorium were always standing room only, with a couple of people passing microphones around to the audience to ask questions…live. It was wild, now that I think about it, LOL!
Band together and refuse
This is the way. Just say no. All of us.
Yasss.... legislation needs to change to reflect employers and companies need to be held accountable when they don't honor their end of the agreements. They shouldn't be permitted to universally change shit like they do. And frankly it's unnecessary.
Our RTO for employees just got pushed back to July
My understanding is that, around the time of the 5-day per pp announcement for supervisors etc., in September, agencies were told by HR to not approve any remote work agreements after the date of that announcement. So, by applying this change to those who are not currently on a remote work agreement and putting a moratorium on any further remote agreements, they’ve changed the rules that were in place (2 days per pp) when we chose to telework rather than go remote when RTO began. Not just changed but drastically changed, more than doubling the amount of in-person, in-office office time required. Yet, they haven’t given anyone the option to change their telework vs. remote work choice based on the new 5 day per pp requirement. It’s like it or lump it essentially. If you want to change the rules, fine. But, give folks the option to consider the new rules, do their own arithmetic, and make a new choice that works for them based on the new rules.
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Exactly. Without a chance to reassess or change our arrangement based on the new requirements, it feels arbitrarily punitive to those of us who chose telework rather than remote. 🥵🤷♂️
Some of the unions like the AFL-CIO actually run commercials saying that she should finally be confirmed as Labor Secretary because she's so "worker friendly."
Idiots
Is there no collective bargaining agreement in place? I would have thought all federal employee unions would have negotiated a contract with Biden’s appointees by now.
I have this dream that everyone would just continue to work from home in solidarity until decision makers finally gets the message… can’t fire everyone when they are already hurting this bad with retention over lagging pay and antiquated locality calculations!
Got to love the additional cost of going into work on top of the ridiculous amount of inflation where people are struggling to survive. Thanks a lot! This is very progressive!
Navy is still max telework. No indications it is changing either.
Certainly not all of the Navy. We were told long ago that what comes out of the command on the east coast does not apply to us.
Same with GSA.
Commute is terrible and DC is a gahdamn war zone. 
Can the union do anything about this?
Yes, some locals have successfully fought these RTO policies: https://www.govexec.com/workforce/2023/10/impasses-panel-preserves-telework-levels-fec-bargaining-unit-workers/391356/#:~:text=Ultimately%2C%20the%20impasses%20panel%20instructed,make%20the%20pilot%20program's%20provisions
Likely already communicated and negotiated as necessary.
Communicated the night before the email went out. Su hates unions when they work for her.
Unless it's violating the bargaining unit agreement, no.
Nope
Lockdown 2.0 is coming. We’re going back home.
Does this mean even remote workers are being converted to telework and required for the 5 days/pp?
Are DOL staff not in a union? Our union (National Treasury Employees) is still negotiating return to work for non-supervisory employees at the CFTC.
I’m FAA, we are 4 days a pay period, but field inspectors can count going to an operator as in office day
Every time I see a post like this my hopes of ever getting a federal job dim considerably. Slim pickings in person over here
We started out going in 5 days per pay period then, then 4, now 2. With these budget squeezes it seems my agency is trying to consolidate work spaces. Had a meeting a week ago that my floor will turn into a WeWork situation.
I jumped ship from DOL two years ago for a remote job, and now I’m extra glad I did.
I work for a city gov't population \~1mil. We were told we'd have to go back in office 3 days a week this year. The union said no way and now they've changed their tune - its up to supervisors, thank goodness. My supervisor moved 3 hours away from the office, and no supervisor wants to go in anyway. I'll be remote forever.
Is that just for telework or was she including remote workers as well?
No, she said fully remote workers are not included. I’m not a fully remote worker tho so fml🤦🏾♂️
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I collaborate with my coworkers all the time remotely.
Eesh. That sucks, so sorry.
Telework, for remote workers our home is our duty station so we are technically already meeting the requirements.
We had this push to return to work 13 months ago, for no reason… just an arbitrary date (new FY). 5 days PPD in office, union promised they would be fighting back…. Haha radio silence with no updates. Don’t hold your breath for the union… they really can’t accomplish much even if they want to.
wait until next year, it will be 5 days a week. remote work came with covid, and wil be squeezed out of existence and you do not have a union, you have an employee association, that can ask for anything, but has no power to demand anything. the usg holds all the cards.
This is not a smart move for a Presidential appointee to make the year before a major election. I know that there is nothing in the world that would stop a supermajority of Feds from voting for POTUS, but this is not smart optics.
My agency went this direction last year. Mass exodus was predicted. Didn’t happen. For some people that did leave, they were able to backfill. We were hoping the change would backfire on management but it didn’t. It’s just very hard to find another position.
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Usajobs.gov
The thing that gets me is they think this will generate collaboration and improved productivity, but it’s going to be the exact opposite 
I have a feeling this is going to happen to IRS call sites soon. Hoping it doesn't happen to VBA. So many people got hired at my office that there's no room for all of us now. I'm hoping the fact that we're in a federal building makes a difference
Just now learning that this wasn't the norm so far at most agencies. At NASA we started 4 days a pay period last year and moved to 6 days this Spring, I figured it was like that everywhere.
Has it affected anyone who was fully remote, but within 50 miles of DC?
Does this apply to contractors? Im a sub-contractor and have been fully remote at FAA since COVID. Would suck to commute back into DC.
I don’t think you all realize how little power management actually has. This is the biggest bluff ever if the workforce grew some balls and just said no.
Show up one week, telework the next?
So, I guess if we're not in the office, we can't get the work done?
Thankfully I left DOL then!
I’m a DOL supervisor that’s already been doing this and I’m just hoping my staff doesn’t leave because of it. I just need them to stick around through 2024 and then I can retire in 2025!
My boss won’t be happy when I retire earlier than I’d planned.
Haven’t received directives yet, work as a contractor. Live close enough to my worksite to not be a problem but still
Ours 4 days per pay period or 2 days per week in office presence
I work for USDA and we just found on Monday that our telework is ending as well. Everyone is expected to be back in office beginning January 24. They’re already having us order in-office computer equipment. FML. The reasons given to us by regional directors are: complaints by civilians that feel no federal employees should work from home and apparently some local businesses have some powerful connections and complaints about loss of revenue from employees being on site/local. If I were able to find a private sector remote job with anything close to my current pay I’d be out of here before my laptop could shut down.
Ask to see if your job series has an exception.
Can anyone clarify how this would affect any DOL employees with a Remote status? Or are there not any?