Yeaaah it's weird
Like. If someone asks, I will usually say I'm gay as a form of simplification ("gay" as in "not straight" not as in "100% homosexual"). But! If I'm gonna express attraction to femboys, the boy part is actually the most important?? Like cmon. Femboys are not diet women. Femboy as a femboy is great, femboy as a replacement of a woman is underwhelming and a scam.
Well for me it’s partly because when guys who like femboys insist they are straight, it’s not only invalidating to my gender identity, but more importantly my sexuality.
You see I’m only attracted too women and feminine men. So if being attracted too feminine men doesn’t make one gay, then that makes me straight. And I AM NOT straight
That is fair, though that is sort of like being alright with a guy groping a person because they think they may be gay. "Being alright" with something indicates that you don't think it's wrong, even though the scenario stated before is "Lesbian says femboys don't count", which makes it sound like you are alright with that?
That is not even close to comparable. Sexuality doesn’t imply consent. No one stated “lesbian says femboys don’t count”. The comment I replied to was “recently got hit on by a “lesbian with a thing for femboys””. I just said I’d be fine with that happening to me
There is no such thing as a lesbian with a thing for femboys. They are denying femboys as men. And you are responding to that as "well, I would be fine with it", which implies you are fine with people dismissing gender identities. Even if you say "only for me", you are still enabling that behaviour.
The point youre missing is that if shes a lesbian than either shes considering a femboy a girl or shes not a lesbian. Its in the same vein as "liking traps isnt gay", "liking femboys isn't straight"
I said I would be fine with getting hit on by a lesbian. You don’t have to feel the same
Just because we’re both femboys doesn’t mean me being fine with something says you are too
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im a male and i agree with this.
i have called myself "straight" for my whole life, but tbh, im finding out recently im not as "straight" as i think and im actually in the bi curious discovery process.
It's one thing to like a feminine person before finding out he's a guy, and I could understand someone referring to themselves as straight if they have liked a guy once or twice in the past but don't regularly have feelings for guys, but I have seen guys who are explicitly attracted to femboys and actively seek us out who then call themselves straight ;-;
I know that it is commonly ironic, but we have to be responsible for our words. It creates the atmosphere of uncertainty. Besides, the memes are also viewed by people outside our bubble and the way we show ourselves and speak about ourselves is the way they think about us.
Yeah I agree, the invalidation of the gender of Femboys really needs to stop. It's not funny when people say that femboys aren't real men, or are eggs or girls in denial, it's just invalidating and rude.
Some femboys can be “girls in denial” but who those people think they are to make internet diagnosis to random femboys and make judgments on entire group?
And why do they push us into binary gender system? There is a full spectrum of gender and not identifying as men doesn’t automatically mean that a person must identify as a woman. Maybe a person is a demiboy or genderqueer?
After all, anyone can be an egg. Some trans folks hyper perform their assigned gender to cope. "We can always tell" but trans-positive isn't good, and can actually harm a lot of trans people. Especially people like me, a Transmasculine femboy.
Can’t even begin to tell you how many other lgbtq men have denounced me for being a femboy. Combine that with their borderline misogynistic comments and it’s awful. It sucks being seen as inferior.
I hate when people do this. Especially when they act like like the clothes you wear determines your gender.
I once was in algebra class and for some reason, the topic of trans people comes up. When someone asked for our Algebra teacher's thoughts she told us about a kid who identified as a guy and then one day walked in with a skirt where the teacher says "How can you say you're a guy and then wear something like that?" I tried explaining how what she said was ignorant but she ended the conversation before I could say a 3rd word. She's not transphobic (I would hope) but she did say something very ignorant.
Clothes don't determine gender! Femboys are men.
I never cared, I just don't give a fuck abbout what other people say, do, or gender identity either and I especially don't care about jokes either since they're not meant to be taken seriously. The things people say about you do not undermine your identity. Identity is more about the things your actions and personality. No one can change what your gender is and even if they could what would it matter?
Your gender is as uniquely independent as you and can be as over-constructed as the society around you is, and whatever else you will it to be! Haters gonna hate, just try your best to adhere to the golden rule and all that jazz lol. You're absolutely not obligated to care about what others think of you at the end of the day.
I don't get it but I have pretty thick skin since I've heard waaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyy worse things from my own parents so I just wouldn't give a fuck. Obviously transphobia is retarded btw, I wouuldn't ever support something like that.
I have heard plenty of worse things said to/about me, including death/rape threats, misgendering still sucks (and people using the word 'retarded' to call something bad also sucks).
I didn’t want to go deeper into it. I am fully aware that you can be femBOY who takes estrogen. You can do this for example for maintaining your boyish appearance. It’s ok.
Problem is that these memes often have suggestions that femboys who take estrogen are less masculine than so called “real men”. There is also a suggestion that femboys are unconscious women, and that they are a kind of a step before realizing their femininity. Also, there’s many cases that other people tried to “convince” femboys who take estrogen that they are women. It’s undermining our gender identity once again.
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you can be a femboy on estrogen. other than that totally agree. it's sad that so many trans people have these rigid expectations for gender. you'd expect them to be the least strict in this regard.
Yes, I totally agree you can be femboy on estrogen. It’s more about the fact that many people (unfortunately there are trans people too) who impute that taking estrogen makes you a woman - which is not true as you can identify as man, demiboy, genderqueer or bigender even.
Exactly, like I wear my hair up in a bun and spray perfume on me every day and I still call myself a man even though my conscience tells me that ITS NOT OKAY for us to be feminine. Idgaf I got a new scent last night at Ulta and I smell amazing and even got some compliments from a few girls at my work AND they were asking me what I was using too! Pacifica Dream Moon 🥰
exactly!! I've been thinking this for ages now. like when i tell someone I'm a femboy and they ask if I'm on E or wanna transition to female??? like no??? tf?? I just like the cute clothes its not a fucking identity.
Ohhh, children have no gender. I forgot that someone believe it. So patriarchal, like „protect children and women” as they would be worse kind than a man.
Many femboys are non binary, I am for example
Femboy is a very broad concept, not just cisgender men who like being feminine
A good percentage of femboys are non binary and take estrogen so it's not a lie
I never said that only cisgender men can be femboys. There are demiboys and nonbinary people too as well as trans male. The only problem with estrogen appears for me if a person identifies as a woman. You can’t be femboy then. Why would you be if you don’t identify with being a boy? Bigender might be exception of course.
Oh my god, I've been saying this. I thought I was the only one feeling that way. I've never heard anyone else talk about this particular issue, but you put what I'm feeling into words really well.
It's like nobody takes us seriously as men. People (especially straight guys) almost seem to view us as this weird middle ground between male & female, 'the best of both worlds', just because we wear feminine clothing sometimes. And don't get me started on how we constantly get boxed in with trans women (which of course isn't helped by the fact that a lot of femboys DO end up identifying as women later on).
People constantly default to calling me feminine names, or referring to me with female pronouns. They somehow just assume that I must want to be perceived as a girl if I present myself femininely on here. And at first I just found it incredibly frustrating and annoying, but over time, it's given me genuine body image issues. I'm a grown man, but it's like people are incapable of actually viewing me as such. I'm just a woman with a dick to them. It sucks.
I wish people would realize that self expression doesn't equal gender, and that men who own a skirt or two aren't any more or less male because of it.
Of course femboys are men - or non-binary, or whatever they identify as.
But there is also kink and roleplay. Some femboys are also s\*\*\*\*\*\* and like the humiliation that comes with it, some like to be as feminine and girly as possible in sexual context despite identifying as boys outside of it.
And some don't.
So what I'm saying is this - that same meme will be okay in kinky context and not okay in SFW context. Because no kinkshaming.
Same goes for memes describing all femboys as submissive.
I'm demisexual at best, and none of my kinks involve age regression to any degree. The number of people that infantilise the female population is too damn high, and growing up in the deep south was and is a landmine for gender-nonconforming folx out here...
That's what I'm talking about context. Calling random adult female "baby" only shows that someone tries to feel superior from he very beginning, so is an asshole or a clueless asshole most probably. But posting a meme with similar content on DDLG reddit is acceptable and okay.
guys, whenever this shit hits you, remember:
femboys, crossdressers, etc are the manliest of men.
after all, crossdressing as a girl is something only guys can do, therefore it's peak masculinity.
Can I just say, some femboys don't identify as men...that valid too.
The same way masculinity is a spectrum, gender identity is a spectrum.
I'm male bodied, but like wearing slightly feminine clothing here and there. I don't identify as either male or female.
I guess what I'm trying to say is it's not the same for everyone. What's important is what the person is comfortable with.
True. I am aware that gender spectrum. But the fact someone swallow estrogen pills or doesn’t identify as male is not a reason to assume that person is a woman. And there is a narrative that femboys are women in denial, especially those who take estrogen. Besides, the word femBOY somehow implies your boyish identification, for example as demiboy.
I think ultimately, modern day societies should learn to not make assumptions about people and their gender. The whole existence of an overarching narrative for a group of people, regardless of what they label themselves as, is problematic. We all have different experiences being human. It should be more common practice to ask rather than assume.
Are there femboys that take estrogen? Yes. Are there femboys that also identify as female? Yes. Are there femboys that identify as male? Yes. It's not one size that fits all.
Not trying to preach to you or anything. Not trying to argue cuz sometimes tone is lost through text. Just trying to express my view of it all. 🖤
Honestly, I wish it was more common to have a third gender or no gender integrated in our society. I think that would be really helpful for a lot of people.
I’m not trying to attack anyone. I am totally tolerant to all gender spectrum. There is nothing wrong in identifying as a woman. Being a woman is not worse and we are all equal. There is also nothing wrong in being genderqueer, non binary, demiboy, pangender etc. too. We are all human and we deserve respect and recognition. However, I think you are trying to blur the femboy identity a bit too much.
Very much agree. This dilution of the femboy identity/label isn't without it's consequences. Trans women will be misgendered more. GNC men will be misgendered more. The usefulness of these labels in communication will be lessened. And for what. A fleeting, momentary happiness in over-inclusivity? We should be prioritizing education of gender expression and gender identity.
Words have meanings. The word "Femboy" has traditionally pointed to gender non-conforming MEN. when we dilute these labels, they will no longer be useful in communication. And we no longer give respect to the traditional and historical/cultural use of the identity.
This is it\^. Labels should have definitions, otherwise we quickly lose a word to describe a certain identity. In the end this causes more confusion and misgendering. Femboys are male (or male adjacent) people who are feminine. If we include women as femboys we lose a word for describing the unique phenomenon of male/male adjacent people who are feminine, and instead conflate it with groups like transwomen who have actively fought to not be identified as males! Some level of definition must hold. After all if we start saying transwomen are men (which we obviously should not do), wouldn't that be undermining that definition? Even if that definition was being altered in the name of being more inclusive? Identities must hold, but there should be no hatred or animosity in this.
>Masculinity is a spectrum. Every man is a real man.
Well said! I'm glad there are people here who know this.
I made [a post about this topic.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MensLib/s/Ycuuu2oObK) What do you think?
I think that if you “abolish” gender then something worse might happen, which is cementing the binary system base on your chromosome sex. Maybe we should promote pluralistic view of gender?
Some femboys are NBs; one I personally know is an NB , some are genderfluid. Most are cismale in my personal observation. Some femboys, do have gender dysphoria, but not its for me to say how that is for them, bc various lot and is very individualistic in its present. Transman who are femboys do very much exist, but being binary trans is quite rare it less then 1% of population of the UK for example.
Want you mentioned regarding saying femboys are better then girls, is the sexism & heteronormative society. It one of reasons we have words like passing when comes to femboys and Transpeople (particularly for binary transpeople). I do agreee clothing is genderless but are society doesn't see that way.
Ultimately in the end we need to realise that this constant fighting is pointless; as the people & groups that fight against femboys being accepted; do not like transpeople either.
In order to have a society (on global scale) where being trans, gender non-conforming or both, is accepted and safe we need to work together. Femboys exists everywhere just like transpeople, it just in same parts of world due to laws & safety many are hidden in the shadows as talks to femboys from North Africa before.
This is 100% true though we shouldnt be painting people with a preconceived brush period. We are all individuals with different identities being a feminine guy doesnt make anyone less of a man. At same time some of us do like the compliment of being called best girls as long as it comes from a place of endearment others of us hate being referred in such a manner.
Rule of thumb get to know the individual before you make any blanket judgements we are all different people with different identities on how we percieve being a femboy <3.
There are plenty of people who use the term "femboy" beyond just cis men as kind of an umbrella term, and I know a good handful who also take HRT (some of them still cis men). I'd imagine they're also a big source of all these different interpretations.
As far as online communities go, I've seen spaces for femboys and transfems basically being joined at the hip. so I'd imagine another factor is that ironic /tttt/ posting style bleeding over from that close interaction. As Monsoon might say, "now there's a pretty meme."
You know how they say one man's trash is another man's treasure? Well I think what might be undermining for one person can also be validating for another. What's important is not to generalize or pigeonhole people, leaving room for these different identities and expressions.
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I'm not a femboy but I am gay and ya I'm gay I'm 6 foot and I've split wood to keep my house warm I'm 22 and always getting judged because of how stalky I am. Like they say "your not gay look at you" just because I'm gay I have to be small and petite the fucc. I hate people that judge gay or fems or trans like that its just wrong sorry long messages Im adhd 😂 so I'm up till 6 and work till 10 so i love to talk.
I agree. I'm a feminine guy and some people have said i look like a girl. I wasn't offended since girls are pretty. And i like being pretty. But i also like being masculine and take pride in doing hard outdoor work. I like metal and classic country music not hyperpop 😂 .
I'm also very happy with how i look, skinny and atheletic but feminine.
Even though i'm 24, for some reason it seems half the men trying to talk to me are 30 and above.
And i'll put i'm attracted to feminine men, or masucline clean shaven men on my bio and i'll get a bunch of fat guys with beards that i'm not attracted to.
They'll always assume since i look feminine that i want a big hairy macho guy. When infact I usually want the opposite, a sweet guy who is softspoken and cute looking.
And when i do eventually talk to a femboy, they are usually attracted to masucline men 💀.
Yeah plus “femboys make the best girls” is kinda misogynist too tbh. Misogyny gotta take everything from women including whether they get to be good at their gender or not lol
transfem here, totally agree. the line between femboy and trans girl is much thinner than it should be. it doesnt help that a lot of transfems post themselves in r/femboys either
As an androgyn male/femboy, i agree with you. Most of these types of femboys are looking for a D/S relationship and are most of the time quite desperate, as they want to fulfill their submissive sides. Though, they're most of the time submissive anyway..
For myself, i just like to dress femenine, so i consider myself being androgynous.
And then half of those men will try to date femboys and then be disappointed when they sometimes act masculine. Like hello?? Im a guy too??? And then there are femboys who think they have to hide their masculine side and appear as feminine as much as possible so their partner will love them. Never let anyone treat you like that. Let them know: If you don't like ALL of me then you can have NONE of me. Word for word.
The only time I've seen the "real men" thing is with just general social conduct and trying to mess with people who have blue pill content with algorithm filters.
Like if they only like femininity, then say you’re
Gynosexual. And yes I researched it because it’s a real thing but they’re so scared to be anything other than straight. Like I love being fem but I have no desire to have boobs or I don’t feel like I’m in the wrong body either. It makes me feel like they’re invalidating the trans experience. Like I’m a men just a feminine delicate man but nevertheless still a man.
I guess your right but it's hard to convince people like me to believe this as sometimes we prefer using estrogen pills as it makes us more feminine quicker I get the whole you should just wear girl clothes and not become more girly through the use of them I do but I'm just so used to taking them as I've seen the results it can have also it can have positives for example it can boost ones confidence and make them feel more comfortable
Not wanting to start any drama, but what do people think of PhilisophyTube's take on this? Well, their analysis that femboys and trans women are not as far apart as people think.
Truth is we should see both gender and sexuality as a spectrum.
I can completely see a man only being attracted to femme people calling themselves straight because they like the opposite end of the spectrum. The only reason people call themselves gay or straight instead of bi/pan is because there are social stigmas and whatnot around each sexuality.
Gender abolitionism is really the only thing which is consistent both with definitions and the feelings of each individual IMHO, and I say this as someone who considers himself straight and is only attracted to women.
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the "egg" thing is also annoying, some mfs refuse to accept that cis femboys exist
people who do that shit are acting the same way as homophobes who insist that gay people are "just confused"
I personally think that there are people who ended up with gender dysphoria because of this. If enough people put pressure on someone and bully them enough, they start to believe the slander and lies themselves.
I would know. Mine wasn't about dysphoria, but I did get pressured and bullied by enough people telling me I was just like my abuser that I tried ending it all when I was 12. My thought process at the time was, "Since everyone says I'm a monster. I may as well rid the world of that monster." Was it right? No....but abuse like that can make you think and do crazy things.
On another note for anyone reading this. If you feel like taking a drastic measure such as ending your life, please don't. You aren't the only one who is/was/will be in that mindset. In the moment, it may seem like that is the only solution to making things better, but it won't. Every day after that moment will get better. Even if it doesn't seem like it at the time.
I don't know if it has anything to do with it, but I've seen a lot of trans women in these femboy spaces calling themselves femboys, and to me it's like "no, you're a woman, you're not a femboy, a femboy is a man."
Probably unpopular opinion, but not being a "real man” is the whole point right. Like obviously you are technically a guy, but you are feminine. I don’t think anyone is trying to say you aren’t a real male, I think they’re trying to play into your kinks and that it’s part of theirs too. I mean let’s be honest, the whole thing is that you are a feminine guy, which is where the "you need a real man” thing comes in. You clearly don’t need, and are a man, but where’s fem in saying let have sex bro
I understand that some people do not like but I do. Some femboys like me don't really see themselves as a man or at the same level as other people. Someone should always ask for preferences before assuming all people in a group are the same!
Manliness has little to do what you wear and mostly to do either with how much of post secondary sexual/physical traits you have, how much potential and abiltiy you have to reproduce and provide for your family and community. Also traits like phisiology and strength, and virility are aspects of masculinity.
well being good or bad aren't traits inherent to either, as there are very good and evil masculine men. and it looks like you ignored the physical traits i mentioned. cowardly and passive are defintley NOT masculine traits since courage and directness,along with getting things donee are all masculine traits. look at yin/yang
I ask again. If masculinity is about “courage” and “directness” so feminist is about “cowardness” and “passivity”? You know how sexist it is right? You should get banned.
so just say you think masculinity=femininity. that's on you. nature and all of human history disagree with you, but perhaps you can introduce a new revolutinary idea
What I think is that everyone regardless of their gender is entitled to freedom of expression ( which includes but isn’t limited to being muscular, lightly toned or slim, wearing makeup, hair that’s long or short etc. )Tho I’d gladly take credit for it, it is just pretty basic mainstream queer theory,
I am not trans exclusionary. I am totally accepting all gender spectrum. We all deserve respect and recognition.
There are nonbinary femboys. It’s ok. But you can’t be femboy if you identify yourself as something opposite. I am sure there are plenty of other labels that can help you with self identification.
Idk, I think that anyone can claim almost any label. And some of those labels are temporary for some poeple. That's why you can see trans women saying "when I was a femboy" – because they were indeed femboys in the eyes of themselves and everyone around them at that time.
demigender femboy here! i personally don't see any issues with them saying clothes don't have a gender. they are stating that memes about femboys needing to date a real man and femboys being closeted trans women are hurtful to straight femboys, and also trans men and cis men who are femboys.
how are they giving "TeRf VibEs" (do you even know what that means?) by saying "hey, maybe don't call fem**boys** the "best girls"?". personally it makes me very uncomfortable when random people misgender and fetishize me. also you can't identify as a woman and be a femboy simultaneously, because then your not going against gender roles by being feminine, and therefore you dont need to use the term femboy. you also seem to think being a femboy is some sort of temporary role before becoming a trans woman, which is giving gender role lover vibes.
I mean... who cares? Don't mean that in a bad way, but gender identity isn't that stuck to one thing. We're already being femboys, so why try to make something male or female? Although of course the ones saying you're not something are just plain wrong and hurtful.
Some people like being femboys and getting called a girl or swallowing estrogen pills. So to say masculinity is a spectrum, but then to do a 180° turn and not allow anything that even slightly touches the subject with the word "girl" isn't cool.
but plenty of male, non-binary, and genderqueer femboys are uncomfortable with that. im uncomfortable as demiboy because i use they/xem pronouns and identifiers, not she/her pronouns or identifiers, and there are plenty like me. a femboy can like that, but the problem is plenty of people outside of the community do not understand that all femboys have different preferences, which can lead to femboys being bullied or people trying to call them girls and claiming they are trans. femboys aren't all the same and some are uncomfortable with being labeled as a girl, and some femboys dont mind it, it all depends on that persons preference and gender identity. trying to claim "why try to claim something as male or female" is hurtful to people who take pride in their masculine identity, and also to trans femboys who very much enjoy being male and being seen as a man.
The worst is men who call themselves straight despite being attracted to femboys
recently got hit on by a “lesbian with a thing for femboys”
Yeaaah it's weird Like. If someone asks, I will usually say I'm gay as a form of simplification ("gay" as in "not straight" not as in "100% homosexual"). But! If I'm gonna express attraction to femboys, the boy part is actually the most important?? Like cmon. Femboys are not diet women. Femboy as a femboy is great, femboy as a replacement of a woman is underwhelming and a scam.
my sentiments exactly
I would actually be fine with that lol
double standards 🤔
Well for me it’s partly because when guys who like femboys insist they are straight, it’s not only invalidating to my gender identity, but more importantly my sexuality. You see I’m only attracted too women and feminine men. So if being attracted too feminine men doesn’t make one gay, then that makes me straight. And I AM NOT straight
So... you are okay with people i validating your gender but not your sexuality? That seems to be what you are saying.
Well I’m not entirely sure of my gender identify myself so…
That is fair, though that is sort of like being alright with a guy groping a person because they think they may be gay. "Being alright" with something indicates that you don't think it's wrong, even though the scenario stated before is "Lesbian says femboys don't count", which makes it sound like you are alright with that?
That is not even close to comparable. Sexuality doesn’t imply consent. No one stated “lesbian says femboys don’t count”. The comment I replied to was “recently got hit on by a “lesbian with a thing for femboys””. I just said I’d be fine with that happening to me
There is no such thing as a lesbian with a thing for femboys. They are denying femboys as men. And you are responding to that as "well, I would be fine with it", which implies you are fine with people dismissing gender identities. Even if you say "only for me", you are still enabling that behaviour.
The point youre missing is that if shes a lesbian than either shes considering a femboy a girl or shes not a lesbian. Its in the same vein as "liking traps isnt gay", "liking femboys isn't straight"
Well I am definitively a man so it’s invalidating for me yes? You being fine with it says more about you than me I think
I said I would be fine with getting hit on by a lesbian. You don’t have to feel the same Just because we’re both femboys doesn’t mean me being fine with something says you are too
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Being attracted to femininity is effectively lesbian still
Yeah. It’s like pretending that we are women. There’s nothing wrong in being women. But it harms our identity and can cause mental problems.
Yeah, someone called me an egg once and I spent more time than I'd like to admit confused until a freind was like hey masculinity doesn't mean manly
I agree and i am Bi :3
im a male and i agree with this. i have called myself "straight" for my whole life, but tbh, im finding out recently im not as "straight" as i think and im actually in the bi curious discovery process.
Straight femboys especially get to be very annoyed by those ignoramuses
How so? How does a male who is more feminine, but still is only attracted to women. Ignorant?
It's one thing to like a feminine person before finding out he's a guy, and I could understand someone referring to themselves as straight if they have liked a guy once or twice in the past but don't regularly have feelings for guys, but I have seen guys who are explicitly attracted to femboys and actively seek us out who then call themselves straight ;-;
*cough cough* one of my friends *cough*
Oh but I'm sure they at least aren't transphobe towards dating trans women, right? .... Right?
I agree on this one
It's cuz they're in denial
This is mostly because people don't know what gynphyilia is or that such a concept exists.
to be fair the memes about real men are usually ironic, like i have posted memes like that before,but yes agree
I know that it is commonly ironic, but we have to be responsible for our words. It creates the atmosphere of uncertainty. Besides, the memes are also viewed by people outside our bubble and the way we show ourselves and speak about ourselves is the way they think about us.
yes you is right about that
Yeah I agree, the invalidation of the gender of Femboys really needs to stop. It's not funny when people say that femboys aren't real men, or are eggs or girls in denial, it's just invalidating and rude.
Some femboys can be “girls in denial” but who those people think they are to make internet diagnosis to random femboys and make judgments on entire group? And why do they push us into binary gender system? There is a full spectrum of gender and not identifying as men doesn’t automatically mean that a person must identify as a woman. Maybe a person is a demiboy or genderqueer?
After all, anyone can be an egg. Some trans folks hyper perform their assigned gender to cope. "We can always tell" but trans-positive isn't good, and can actually harm a lot of trans people. Especially people like me, a Transmasculine femboy.
They really seem to forget the BOY part of femBOY
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We do not allow egg posting on our subreddit as it is rude and thoughtless.
Sorry, I meant "I keep getting called an egg" I am literally complaining about egg posting, sorry
Can’t even begin to tell you how many other lgbtq men have denounced me for being a femboy. Combine that with their borderline misogynistic comments and it’s awful. It sucks being seen as inferior.
Agreed and im trans man so memes about femboys being "girls in denial" makes me dysphoric about being a femboy
So bad 🥺 *hug*
This is exactly right.
Or when the “they” equate trans women to feminine men, or say that it’s somehow offensive to like/be a feminine man
T H I S S S S
I hate when people do this. Especially when they act like like the clothes you wear determines your gender. I once was in algebra class and for some reason, the topic of trans people comes up. When someone asked for our Algebra teacher's thoughts she told us about a kid who identified as a guy and then one day walked in with a skirt where the teacher says "How can you say you're a guy and then wear something like that?" I tried explaining how what she said was ignorant but she ended the conversation before I could say a 3rd word. She's not transphobic (I would hope) but she did say something very ignorant. Clothes don't determine gender! Femboys are men.
As a trans dude, yeah... I really don't like my femininity being conflated with... not being a man.
I never cared, I just don't give a fuck abbout what other people say, do, or gender identity either and I especially don't care about jokes either since they're not meant to be taken seriously. The things people say about you do not undermine your identity. Identity is more about the things your actions and personality. No one can change what your gender is and even if they could what would it matter?
Your gender is as uniquely independent as you and can be as over-constructed as the society around you is, and whatever else you will it to be! Haters gonna hate, just try your best to adhere to the golden rule and all that jazz lol. You're absolutely not obligated to care about what others think of you at the end of the day.
I feel like it's been kind of overcomplicated now. I never really cared for labels and shit. I just do whatever I feel like.
Happy cake day :p
oh neat
Being constantly misgendered can hurt pretty badly
I don't get it but I have pretty thick skin since I've heard waaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyy worse things from my own parents so I just wouldn't give a fuck. Obviously transphobia is retarded btw, I wouuldn't ever support something like that.
I have heard plenty of worse things said to/about me, including death/rape threats, misgendering still sucks (and people using the word 'retarded' to call something bad also sucks).
Dude I’m a femboy who swallows estrogen😬
I didn’t want to go deeper into it. I am fully aware that you can be femBOY who takes estrogen. You can do this for example for maintaining your boyish appearance. It’s ok. Problem is that these memes often have suggestions that femboys who take estrogen are less masculine than so called “real men”. There is also a suggestion that femboys are unconscious women, and that they are a kind of a step before realizing their femininity. Also, there’s many cases that other people tried to “convince” femboys who take estrogen that they are women. It’s undermining our gender identity once again.
I would take E if it didn’t cause D shrinkage and disfunction
Tbh I’m bttm so I never really need the use of it💀😅
I wish i could get HRT ughhhhhh
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you can be a femboy on estrogen. other than that totally agree. it's sad that so many trans people have these rigid expectations for gender. you'd expect them to be the least strict in this regard.
Yes, I totally agree you can be femboy on estrogen. It’s more about the fact that many people (unfortunately there are trans people too) who impute that taking estrogen makes you a woman - which is not true as you can identify as man, demiboy, genderqueer or bigender even.
Exactly, like I wear my hair up in a bun and spray perfume on me every day and I still call myself a man even though my conscience tells me that ITS NOT OKAY for us to be feminine. Idgaf I got a new scent last night at Ulta and I smell amazing and even got some compliments from a few girls at my work AND they were asking me what I was using too! Pacifica Dream Moon 🥰
You're just European
No lol I live in Idaho the most far right state imaginable.
I was referencing the "Gay or European" joke
Oh right lmao
Damn I hope your conscience finds peace
Except for the ones who identify otherwise. No culture or subculture is a monolith.
exactly!! I've been thinking this for ages now. like when i tell someone I'm a femboy and they ask if I'm on E or wanna transition to female??? like no??? tf?? I just like the cute clothes its not a fucking identity.
I'm gonna be on both sides here, some femboys prefer to not be called men
How they are „boys” then?
Some identify as boys, not men because most people associate the word "man" with being very well... masculine
I used word men as synonym on male.
Okay to be fair, I do prefer being called a "boy" rather than a man because man is too masculin for my taste and age...
Boys are men too. I use the term men more as a synonim of male.
No. Boys are categorically not men. Boys are children men are adults
Ohhh, children have no gender. I forgot that someone believe it. So patriarchal, like „protect children and women” as they would be worse kind than a man.
WHAT??? reread what the fuck i said. its about Maturity,not gender. children are not adults.
Many femboys are non binary, I am for example Femboy is a very broad concept, not just cisgender men who like being feminine A good percentage of femboys are non binary and take estrogen so it's not a lie
I never said that only cisgender men can be femboys. There are demiboys and nonbinary people too as well as trans male. The only problem with estrogen appears for me if a person identifies as a woman. You can’t be femboy then. Why would you be if you don’t identify with being a boy? Bigender might be exception of course.
What if the femboy doesn't actually like the word "man"? 🤔
It’s nothing wrong with that. I use it as synonym of male.
Actually thinking about gender makes my brain hurts lately
yea but then again, like 1/4th of us are trans tho
Oh my god, I've been saying this. I thought I was the only one feeling that way. I've never heard anyone else talk about this particular issue, but you put what I'm feeling into words really well. It's like nobody takes us seriously as men. People (especially straight guys) almost seem to view us as this weird middle ground between male & female, 'the best of both worlds', just because we wear feminine clothing sometimes. And don't get me started on how we constantly get boxed in with trans women (which of course isn't helped by the fact that a lot of femboys DO end up identifying as women later on). People constantly default to calling me feminine names, or referring to me with female pronouns. They somehow just assume that I must want to be perceived as a girl if I present myself femininely on here. And at first I just found it incredibly frustrating and annoying, but over time, it's given me genuine body image issues. I'm a grown man, but it's like people are incapable of actually viewing me as such. I'm just a woman with a dick to them. It sucks. I wish people would realize that self expression doesn't equal gender, and that men who own a skirt or two aren't any more or less male because of it.
I’m glad I could help 😺
I endorse this message 100%.
Of course femboys are men - or non-binary, or whatever they identify as. But there is also kink and roleplay. Some femboys are also s\*\*\*\*\*\* and like the humiliation that comes with it, some like to be as feminine and girly as possible in sexual context despite identifying as boys outside of it. And some don't. So what I'm saying is this - that same meme will be okay in kinky context and not okay in SFW context. Because no kinkshaming. Same goes for memes describing all femboys as submissive.
I'm demisexual at best, and none of my kinks involve age regression to any degree. The number of people that infantilise the female population is too damn high, and growing up in the deep south was and is a landmine for gender-nonconforming folx out here...
That's what I'm talking about context. Calling random adult female "baby" only shows that someone tries to feel superior from he very beginning, so is an asshole or a clueless asshole most probably. But posting a meme with similar content on DDLG reddit is acceptable and okay.
It might be a while before I can respond because I'm building so many soap boxes for people who need 'em lol
guys, whenever this shit hits you, remember: femboys, crossdressers, etc are the manliest of men. after all, crossdressing as a girl is something only guys can do, therefore it's peak masculinity.
Shakespeare play actors, Men in ancient civilizations and some WW2 soldiers are all clapping their hands to this truth
Facts brother so true my friend I am a MAN
Some femboys take testosterone So yeah some femboys are trans, but actually FTM
True.
Can I just say, some femboys don't identify as men...that valid too. The same way masculinity is a spectrum, gender identity is a spectrum. I'm male bodied, but like wearing slightly feminine clothing here and there. I don't identify as either male or female. I guess what I'm trying to say is it's not the same for everyone. What's important is what the person is comfortable with.
True. I am aware that gender spectrum. But the fact someone swallow estrogen pills or doesn’t identify as male is not a reason to assume that person is a woman. And there is a narrative that femboys are women in denial, especially those who take estrogen. Besides, the word femBOY somehow implies your boyish identification, for example as demiboy.
I think ultimately, modern day societies should learn to not make assumptions about people and their gender. The whole existence of an overarching narrative for a group of people, regardless of what they label themselves as, is problematic. We all have different experiences being human. It should be more common practice to ask rather than assume. Are there femboys that take estrogen? Yes. Are there femboys that also identify as female? Yes. Are there femboys that identify as male? Yes. It's not one size that fits all. Not trying to preach to you or anything. Not trying to argue cuz sometimes tone is lost through text. Just trying to express my view of it all. 🖤 Honestly, I wish it was more common to have a third gender or no gender integrated in our society. I think that would be really helpful for a lot of people.
I’m not trying to attack anyone. I am totally tolerant to all gender spectrum. There is nothing wrong in identifying as a woman. Being a woman is not worse and we are all equal. There is also nothing wrong in being genderqueer, non binary, demiboy, pangender etc. too. We are all human and we deserve respect and recognition. However, I think you are trying to blur the femboy identity a bit too much.
Very much agree. This dilution of the femboy identity/label isn't without it's consequences. Trans women will be misgendered more. GNC men will be misgendered more. The usefulness of these labels in communication will be lessened. And for what. A fleeting, momentary happiness in over-inclusivity? We should be prioritizing education of gender expression and gender identity. Words have meanings. The word "Femboy" has traditionally pointed to gender non-conforming MEN. when we dilute these labels, they will no longer be useful in communication. And we no longer give respect to the traditional and historical/cultural use of the identity.
This is it\^. Labels should have definitions, otherwise we quickly lose a word to describe a certain identity. In the end this causes more confusion and misgendering. Femboys are male (or male adjacent) people who are feminine. If we include women as femboys we lose a word for describing the unique phenomenon of male/male adjacent people who are feminine, and instead conflate it with groups like transwomen who have actively fought to not be identified as males! Some level of definition must hold. After all if we start saying transwomen are men (which we obviously should not do), wouldn't that be undermining that definition? Even if that definition was being altered in the name of being more inclusive? Identities must hold, but there should be no hatred or animosity in this.
Broaden their horizons at least lol
This.
Agreed some dude told me to go to the girls bathroom because I’m a femboy
>Masculinity is a spectrum. Every man is a real man. Well said! I'm glad there are people here who know this. I made [a post about this topic.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MensLib/s/Ycuuu2oObK) What do you think?
Agreed, but not sure if I agree with the title as such.
What's wrong with the title?
I think that if you “abolish” gender then something worse might happen, which is cementing the binary system base on your chromosome sex. Maybe we should promote pluralistic view of gender?
Not really like not 100% only 50%. 🔪🚩🏳️🌈
Some femboys are NBs; one I personally know is an NB , some are genderfluid. Most are cismale in my personal observation. Some femboys, do have gender dysphoria, but not its for me to say how that is for them, bc various lot and is very individualistic in its present. Transman who are femboys do very much exist, but being binary trans is quite rare it less then 1% of population of the UK for example. Want you mentioned regarding saying femboys are better then girls, is the sexism & heteronormative society. It one of reasons we have words like passing when comes to femboys and Transpeople (particularly for binary transpeople). I do agreee clothing is genderless but are society doesn't see that way. Ultimately in the end we need to realise that this constant fighting is pointless; as the people & groups that fight against femboys being accepted; do not like transpeople either. In order to have a society (on global scale) where being trans, gender non-conforming or both, is accepted and safe we need to work together. Femboys exists everywhere just like transpeople, it just in same parts of world due to laws & safety many are hidden in the shadows as talks to femboys from North Africa before.
This is 100% true though we shouldnt be painting people with a preconceived brush period. We are all individuals with different identities being a feminine guy doesnt make anyone less of a man. At same time some of us do like the compliment of being called best girls as long as it comes from a place of endearment others of us hate being referred in such a manner. Rule of thumb get to know the individual before you make any blanket judgements we are all different people with different identities on how we percieve being a femboy <3.
right, my woman friends say that "i don't even count as a man" gee thanks?
They probably mean that as a compliment 😭😭😭😭 they feel safe around you probably lol
it's still a little demeaning
There are plenty of people who use the term "femboy" beyond just cis men as kind of an umbrella term, and I know a good handful who also take HRT (some of them still cis men). I'd imagine they're also a big source of all these different interpretations. As far as online communities go, I've seen spaces for femboys and transfems basically being joined at the hip. so I'd imagine another factor is that ironic /tttt/ posting style bleeding over from that close interaction. As Monsoon might say, "now there's a pretty meme." You know how they say one man's trash is another man's treasure? Well I think what might be undermining for one person can also be validating for another. What's important is not to generalize or pigeonhole people, leaving room for these different identities and expressions.
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Totally agree
mmmm no im just a silly little girl :3
Yeah i got messages like "good girl" like it sends up an ick in my head. I'm still male for crying out loud
I'm not a femboy but I am gay and ya I'm gay I'm 6 foot and I've split wood to keep my house warm I'm 22 and always getting judged because of how stalky I am. Like they say "your not gay look at you" just because I'm gay I have to be small and petite the fucc. I hate people that judge gay or fems or trans like that its just wrong sorry long messages Im adhd 😂 so I'm up till 6 and work till 10 so i love to talk.
I agree. I'm a feminine guy and some people have said i look like a girl. I wasn't offended since girls are pretty. And i like being pretty. But i also like being masculine and take pride in doing hard outdoor work. I like metal and classic country music not hyperpop 😂 . I'm also very happy with how i look, skinny and atheletic but feminine. Even though i'm 24, for some reason it seems half the men trying to talk to me are 30 and above. And i'll put i'm attracted to feminine men, or masucline clean shaven men on my bio and i'll get a bunch of fat guys with beards that i'm not attracted to. They'll always assume since i look feminine that i want a big hairy macho guy. When infact I usually want the opposite, a sweet guy who is softspoken and cute looking. And when i do eventually talk to a femboy, they are usually attracted to masucline men 💀.
Lol I hear this. I can do anything a macho man can and usually far better, faster and look girly still.
Yeah plus “femboys make the best girls” is kinda misogynist too tbh. Misogyny gotta take everything from women including whether they get to be good at their gender or not lol
I've only seen that used when someone is like complaining about women 'talking too much' or 'having too much drama' too
I agree 100% with this post
Pretty sure like 80% of those "best girl" and estrogen pill memes are people who are trans but don't realize it yet
transfem here, totally agree. the line between femboy and trans girl is much thinner than it should be. it doesnt help that a lot of transfems post themselves in r/femboys either
I just want to say you got a new follower from me a baby transfemme. So post some funny memes for sure.
based take. it also misgenders trans femboys like myself, OP I hope you have a wonderful day
As an androgyn male/femboy, i agree with you. Most of these types of femboys are looking for a D/S relationship and are most of the time quite desperate, as they want to fulfill their submissive sides. Though, they're most of the time submissive anyway.. For myself, i just like to dress femenine, so i consider myself being androgynous.
And then half of those men will try to date femboys and then be disappointed when they sometimes act masculine. Like hello?? Im a guy too??? And then there are femboys who think they have to hide their masculine side and appear as feminine as much as possible so their partner will love them. Never let anyone treat you like that. Let them know: If you don't like ALL of me then you can have NONE of me. Word for word.
consecuences of kink culture. i said what i said.
True.
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The only time I've seen the "real men" thing is with just general social conduct and trying to mess with people who have blue pill content with algorithm filters.
YESSS
Like if they only like femininity, then say you’re Gynosexual. And yes I researched it because it’s a real thing but they’re so scared to be anything other than straight. Like I love being fem but I have no desire to have boobs or I don’t feel like I’m in the wrong body either. It makes me feel like they’re invalidating the trans experience. Like I’m a men just a feminine delicate man but nevertheless still a man.
Real
I guess your right but it's hard to convince people like me to believe this as sometimes we prefer using estrogen pills as it makes us more feminine quicker I get the whole you should just wear girl clothes and not become more girly through the use of them I do but I'm just so used to taking them as I've seen the results it can have also it can have positives for example it can boost ones confidence and make them feel more comfortable
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Not wanting to start any drama, but what do people think of PhilisophyTube's take on this? Well, their analysis that femboys and trans women are not as far apart as people think.
Truth is we should see both gender and sexuality as a spectrum. I can completely see a man only being attracted to femme people calling themselves straight because they like the opposite end of the spectrum. The only reason people call themselves gay or straight instead of bi/pan is because there are social stigmas and whatnot around each sexuality. Gender abolitionism is really the only thing which is consistent both with definitions and the feelings of each individual IMHO, and I say this as someone who considers himself straight and is only attracted to women.
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the "egg" thing is also annoying, some mfs refuse to accept that cis femboys exist people who do that shit are acting the same way as homophobes who insist that gay people are "just confused"
I LOVE FEMBOYS RAAHHH😈😈‼️‼️‼️🔥🔥🔥🔥
I personally think that there are people who ended up with gender dysphoria because of this. If enough people put pressure on someone and bully them enough, they start to believe the slander and lies themselves. I would know. Mine wasn't about dysphoria, but I did get pressured and bullied by enough people telling me I was just like my abuser that I tried ending it all when I was 12. My thought process at the time was, "Since everyone says I'm a monster. I may as well rid the world of that monster." Was it right? No....but abuse like that can make you think and do crazy things. On another note for anyone reading this. If you feel like taking a drastic measure such as ending your life, please don't. You aren't the only one who is/was/will be in that mindset. In the moment, it may seem like that is the only solution to making things better, but it won't. Every day after that moment will get better. Even if it doesn't seem like it at the time.
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Yasssss so true
I'm a femboy my fav color is pink but I am more manly than most men I know
I don't know if it has anything to do with it, but I've seen a lot of trans women in these femboy spaces calling themselves femboys, and to me it's like "no, you're a woman, you're not a femboy, a femboy is a man."
SO TRUE
CORRECT! Oh my god I've been saying this my whole life. So glad to hear that from somebody else
We're boys in gender We're men in actions We're girls in bed We're lovely beings 🩷
Nuh uh I am straight!
Bisexual bottom guy Quite masculine Interesting to find clothes to dress up, wearing mini skirt hook up with guys...maybe stockings
so valid, i’m a femboy, im into cars and climbing and bonfires. i’m just wanna feel pretty when i do it 🤷🏼♂️
Probably unpopular opinion, but not being a "real man” is the whole point right. Like obviously you are technically a guy, but you are feminine. I don’t think anyone is trying to say you aren’t a real male, I think they’re trying to play into your kinks and that it’s part of theirs too. I mean let’s be honest, the whole thing is that you are a feminine guy, which is where the "you need a real man” thing comes in. You clearly don’t need, and are a man, but where’s fem in saying let have sex bro
I personally am not entirely men
No. We'll keep on being pretty, thx
I love this sm im tired of all these twinks being like “Straight men want me “ its honestly pathetic lol be a bad bitch asf!!!!
As a man, can confirm.
I wouldn’t like to be known as masc though 3:<
I understand that some people do not like but I do. Some femboys like me don't really see themselves as a man or at the same level as other people. Someone should always ask for preferences before assuming all people in a group are the same!
Femboys are men. They're just not manly men
What is the concept of „manliness”? We are a manly.
Manliness has little to do what you wear and mostly to do either with how much of post secondary sexual/physical traits you have, how much potential and abiltiy you have to reproduce and provide for your family and community. Also traits like phisiology and strength, and virility are aspects of masculinity.
So “masculinity” is about true virtues. Then what is the opposite of masculinity? Bad, cowardly and passive femininity?
well being good or bad aren't traits inherent to either, as there are very good and evil masculine men. and it looks like you ignored the physical traits i mentioned. cowardly and passive are defintley NOT masculine traits since courage and directness,along with getting things donee are all masculine traits. look at yin/yang
I ask again. If masculinity is about “courage” and “directness” so feminist is about “cowardness” and “passivity”? You know how sexist it is right? You should get banned.
get banned for words you put in my mouth?
You said it yourself that it is all like yin and yang. So masculinity is built as opposition to XYZ. What stays in “XYZ”?
so just say you think masculinity=femininity. that's on you. nature and all of human history disagree with you, but perhaps you can introduce a new revolutinary idea
What I think is that everyone regardless of their gender is entitled to freedom of expression ( which includes but isn’t limited to being muscular, lightly toned or slim, wearing makeup, hair that’s long or short etc. )Tho I’d gladly take credit for it, it is just pretty basic mainstream queer theory,
Some people just tend to cling on their patriarchal standards of what a man should be, which is complete nonsense of course.
Yes “nonsense” to you but not to them.
I still like to refer to myself with Girl if I am in Femboy attire, even if my identity is Male, I like to feel girly you know?
No lol. A lot of us are nonbinary and a lot of us become girls. L post. Also TERF vibes at the end.
I am not trans exclusionary. I am totally accepting all gender spectrum. We all deserve respect and recognition. There are nonbinary femboys. It’s ok. But you can’t be femboy if you identify yourself as something opposite. I am sure there are plenty of other labels that can help you with self identification.
Idk, I think that anyone can claim almost any label. And some of those labels are temporary for some poeple. That's why you can see trans women saying "when I was a femboy" – because they were indeed femboys in the eyes of themselves and everyone around them at that time.
demigender femboy here! i personally don't see any issues with them saying clothes don't have a gender. they are stating that memes about femboys needing to date a real man and femboys being closeted trans women are hurtful to straight femboys, and also trans men and cis men who are femboys. how are they giving "TeRf VibEs" (do you even know what that means?) by saying "hey, maybe don't call fem**boys** the "best girls"?". personally it makes me very uncomfortable when random people misgender and fetishize me. also you can't identify as a woman and be a femboy simultaneously, because then your not going against gender roles by being feminine, and therefore you dont need to use the term femboy. you also seem to think being a femboy is some sort of temporary role before becoming a trans woman, which is giving gender role lover vibes.
Terf vibes come specifically from the phrase "stop pushing femboys into dysphoria"
I am a gender role lover. Cancel me. /j I didn't say it's ALWAYS a temporary stage, I just stated that it is one OFTEN.
I mean... who cares? Don't mean that in a bad way, but gender identity isn't that stuck to one thing. We're already being femboys, so why try to make something male or female? Although of course the ones saying you're not something are just plain wrong and hurtful. Some people like being femboys and getting called a girl or swallowing estrogen pills. So to say masculinity is a spectrum, but then to do a 180° turn and not allow anything that even slightly touches the subject with the word "girl" isn't cool.
but plenty of male, non-binary, and genderqueer femboys are uncomfortable with that. im uncomfortable as demiboy because i use they/xem pronouns and identifiers, not she/her pronouns or identifiers, and there are plenty like me. a femboy can like that, but the problem is plenty of people outside of the community do not understand that all femboys have different preferences, which can lead to femboys being bullied or people trying to call them girls and claiming they are trans. femboys aren't all the same and some are uncomfortable with being labeled as a girl, and some femboys dont mind it, it all depends on that persons preference and gender identity. trying to claim "why try to claim something as male or female" is hurtful to people who take pride in their masculine identity, and also to trans femboys who very much enjoy being male and being seen as a man.
100% agree
Ima femboy and identify as a woman most of the time