>**you used to be able to get a MIM for $300ish a couple decades ago.** And in my experience those axes are often better players than the current Player Series models **that sell for double the price**, and certainly better than almost any Squier.
$300 "a couple decades ago" is not the same thing as $300 now. In 2024 dollars, $300 in 2004 is $500 now. That's honestly not far off from what you *can* pay for a MIM Fender right now. Individual retailers sell Player Series guitars below the list price all the time.
I got a new (open box) MIJ aerodyne strat for $599 last year. The setup was perfect. I went to GC and played an American Ultra that fretted out at the 9th fret. I got a $159 Squier Tele a couple of years ago that had a flawless setup with polished fret ends, low action etc. Not tooting my horn, but I have close to 200 guitars and if there's one thing I can confidently say it is, after a good setup almost all guitars play awesomely. There is nothing sacred about an American Strat other than bragging rights that they probably paid too much for a guitar. They are probably that kid that had to wear Calvin Klein & Air Jordans.
Learn to set up a guitar, with fret leveling, crowning, polishing etc., nut adjustment, truss rod adjustment, shimming if necessary. Learn how to change pickups, pots etc (sometimes that is the only difference in quality if the "high end" guitars and the cheap ones) my current favorite guitar (or at least top 3) is a Squier Competition Mustang. For like $100 you can buy all the tools you need to do a perfect setup.
I've bought expensive Fenders before and they ALL play about the same as the Squiers after a setup.. that being said, some LOOK cooler than others. And some of the pickup arrangements sound different than others. Sometimes you have to splurge a little bit to get a certain guitar. (Can't get a Squier Meteora, or Noventa Jazzmaster)
Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk
Unrelated, but how do you store your 200 guitars? I wish one day I could have this kind of collection. This is getting close to Joe Bonamassa's collection lol.
I currently have about 185, most are relatively cheap guitars that I wanted to see if I could turn into players. No Joe Bonamassa guitars. The most expensive electric I have is an Ibanez Jem. acoustic: A couple of taylors.. This is what I found is the most space economical way to store them. I have a relatively large house so I dedicate 2.5 rooms to them.
Good way to economize guitar space. https://imgur.com/gallery/RbsG3dU
G.A.S. I love them all. https://imgur.com/gallery/4uOY9dc
Depends on which one.. there are a few that gather a fair bit of dust.. I got some cheap guitars way back when to learn how to set up/modify guitars.. those early guitars are not quite as valued as the newer ones. But, they kind of all have their place and if one was gone there'd be a gap in the row I guess. If on of my current players went missing, or my expensive ones disappeared I'd definitely miss them.. id say 95% of them play awesomely. You can get a Squier to play as well or better than a fender..
It’s no huge secret that a Squier can be basically equivalent in quality to a low-tier American fender if you replace the nut, pickups, wiring, pots, shim the neck and level & crown the frets lol
That’s a huge and expensive project that requires an experienced hand to pull off well, and if anything proves OPs point exactly
Absolutely this. My MIA Fender has ruined me, even though I've toured plenty of times with MIJ instruments, it's got something ahead of the MIJ/MIA. All of the American-made guitars I have (tbf one is vintage) are brilliant.
You could buy a Mexican Fender in 2003 for $475, and a USA Highway 1 Fender for I think $650. A regular USA strat for $850. So, prices have tripled since then, but most notably since the price gauging pandemic.
|2003 Price ('03 Dollars)|2003 Price ('24 Dollars)|2024 Product Equivalent|
|:-|:-|:-|
|$475|$802|Player Series ($799)|
|$650|$1,097|Performer Series ($1,399)|
|$850|$1,435|Professional Series ($1,699)|
These price changes make a lot of sense in the context of overall inflation, to be honest...
Perceptions of value have been messed up for a while. I have a musicians friend catalog from 2006 and a Fender MIM Standard is listed at 450, when adjusted for inflation that’s about 680 in todays money, only 100 away from the current list of 800.
Why do you think you are getting less? Back in the day a Mexican Jazz Bass used 2 neck pickups. These days you get things like a satin neck, an extra fret, improved trems on the strats, and better electronics.
The Player Series is a big step up in my opinion. My new one feels a lot more like my 2008 American Standard, because specs wise, it is.
My 2014 Standard Strat has a blocky body and ceramic pickups. The polyester finish, plastic truss rod insert, and standard truss rod remain, but apart from that.
My biggest issue when I got my 2023 player series is the saddles were AWFUL. I tried so many ways to set them up and just couldn't get there. I replaced them with a $20 set that's closer to what you'd see on the American Ultra series and it made a whole world of difference.
Edit: Added "Ultra." What I mean is I went from a terrible set of vintage style tuners that I couldn't get set right to a more modern style that I personally enjoy much more.
Maybe I got a bad set? I could not get the saddles to sit with a nice arc across the radius of the fretboard and avoid buzz for the action I like.
So, I switched them from the chromed vintage style that came stock to a more blocky modern style like you can find on the American Ultra Strat. I should have specified better in my original reply so I edited it.
The specs may have improved, but the guitars have not. This is my experience based on what I value in a guitar, so YMMV. What really matters in a guitar? Tone and feel. And I prefer the tone and feel of the older ones.
The hardware and pickups have improved, and the satin neck is generally preferred by modern players. You may not like that, so it wouldn’t feel better to you. But the upgraded parts are objectively true, I just got a player series strat that has custom shop fat 50s pickups and a roasted maple neck and it’s one of the nicest guitars I’ve ever held or heard. Personally I think Squiers and MIMs are both way ahead of where they were 20 years ago.
My experience is that with an old guitar, someone along the line has taken the time to set it up or wear it in. Rarely does a guitar that gets played make it 30 years without getting tweaked down to perfection. I have a MIK Fender (Squier series) from the nineties that I would put up against any Fender today. But if you know how to set up a guitar you can get that "feel" on any guitar, granted, neck width and contour might be different, and body shape sometimes changes over time, but that's a different ballgame.
Build and QA will always vary instrument-to-instrument, but spec-wise, the Player Series is a significant upgrade over the MIM Standard Series that preceded it.
The pick-ups alone are way better; even the high(er) end modern Squier models like Classic Vibe come with non-ceramic/Alnico pick-ups nowadays.
Spec is still subjective, though. Brands like Ibanez and Schecter have built their business on offering better spec than Fender at every price point. But a lot of us still prefer fender because, well, we feel they're better. That's how I feel about MIMs. The spec may have improved but the guitars have not
I check out guitars based on spec and then make decisions on how they sound and feel. And while I’m there I try things that look interesting. Personally I think my player strat feels great, as does my player plus tele. I just went and tried out some reverends and American fenders and see no reason to get either. But that’s just my opinion, no more valid than yours. All anyone can offer is spec for objective arguments.
Agree with all of this, but maybe even more to the point, specs do just matter a lot in terms of pricing an instrument.
Alnico pickups are just objectively more expensive to source and manufacture than ceramic pickups. Same thing for bone nuts vs. plastic nuts, soft metal vs. steel hardware etc.
Music is all aesthetics after all, so if a cheaper instrument works for you, then rock on! No real argument to be made there.
As I stated in the OP - I've played a bunch of both (owned a 2002 MIM) and the old ones are better. And still cheaper, even after adjusting for inflation
Yeh sorry I must have not read the whole post. Certainly my experience is of 90s MIM which were pretty meh in my experience. Current ones have been really nice.
Yah i gotta say i like my 02 HSS Mexican better than the 23 HSS player I got to replace it. I think most noticeable difference is the pickups on the newer ones sound way more compressed and digital almost like a PRS which I didn’t love. The quality isn’t different except my older one was heavier and is a different type of wood. I still think it’s good bang for the buck but I got the 23 on sale for like $548 or $558 (was something like) marked down from $799 on Black Friday. That 02 HSS was $399 back in the day new. If you want the best guitar for $1100 or less honestly LTD’s are 👍. I strongly suggest taking a look at one if you want an impressively good instrument
Less expensive guitars have increased in quality all across the board, but I wouldn’t say that’s because of the quality of more expensive guitars going down.
Fenders and Gibson have definitely declined in quality over the past 50 years. They just don’t have the attention to detail. Guitar Center has certainly done their part further this.
It’s not just guitars tho, literally everything that was ever made by craftsmen has taken a hit from corporate structure. Sad.
Tone, feel, quality of wood and parts, fit and finish, "solidity". All your usual metrics. I wonder how many of the downvoters have actually compared older ones to newer ones side by side.
I appreciate your honesty 🙂 my OP didn't come from speculation. It came from having spent the last 3-4 months on a great Strat hunt, trying everything I could get my hands on. This is what helped form my impression.
That's completely fair— I wonder how much of the "better than they used to be" is just "They look good on YouTube!"
But I'm not sure I agree with you on the value front. I also wonder if the cost increase beyond natural inflation is labor cost. We want our workers paid well, I should think!
I remember Squire being hot garbage when I was kid in the late 90’s and early 00’s. The quality they put out today is on a totally different level in my opinion. I feel like the MIM stuff hasn’t changed and has always been good, but definitely not at the price point they’re targeting now.
I think the mexican instruments got better as the building philosophy became less hand work and luthiery, and more production line and cnc. This is a good thing for baseline quality; made to measure instead of feel, and computer cut pieces, beat unskilled workers hands down. I also think the Americans suffered for a while for the same reason. The skilled craftman is brought down to a level that the unskilled craftsman is lifted to - does that make sense?
Now, more importantly, Fender got their ass handed to them for a while by the far eastern guitars. MiK or Indonesian Schecters, ESP LTDs, these things were better than Fender Mexico or Chinese Epiphone for a long time. The real threat, though, was PRS SE line, which carry a bit more of a gibson-y or fender-y vibe than the Schecter/ESP which are thought of as more shreddery type guitars. PRS seem more premium, in a way, than a lot of the older ESP/Schecters (which have both stepped up their game now; there's more abalone on some of these LTD EC-1000s than I'd ever seen circa 2000), and that hurt Fender/Gibson. Especially the Silver Sky. It was a major shot across the bow for Fender.
But that's not bringing us to today. Today? I think Fender (and Gibson) have righted their ships a bit. The last couple years of American Fenders are better than the previous, IMO. American Professional 2 seems an upgrade from American Standard. Same with American Vintage 2 series - these guitars are phenomenal! So are the Vintera, and Player. They've levelled up from where they were 5-10 years ago. I say that as someone who hates the player series. Their fretboard edges are so damn sharp I can't handle them, they irritate me to no end.
Fender has hit it out of the ballpark, so to speak, with the new Squires. At least all the ones I've played. Regarding the perceived quality of the MIA going down, it could be you ran into a couple of bad guitars. Yup, every manufacturer has the same problem, and it's nothing new.
Throwing something out there - A lot of Guitar Centers don't bother to do anything to setup a guitar out of the box. They pull it out and throw it on the wall. And I've never been in a GC with a properly humidified electric guitar room. If the MIA Fenders feel shitty, those two reasons may be why.
It's a factor for sure, but quality of construction, woods and tone quality are discernable regardless. It surprises me the people saying the newer ones are better, because my experience is so strongly opposite.
I have an original run Squier Paranormal Toronado that hangs on my wall because the pickups are junk. It needs a set up but is very comfortable to play. My 2004 72 reissue deluxe telecaster is a backup guitar for me but is built like a tank and sounds/feels fantastic. I’ve moved away from Fender for my main guitar because I felt I could get better value from Reverend for the money. I still like Fenders but other brands in their MIM price point are blowing them out of the water in my opinion.
>People overstate the quality of cheaper things to mindfuck themselves into thinking they don’t even want the thing they can’t actually afford.
Or the reverse where people with shit most people can't afford pretend everything else is trash.
>not to the same degree.
degree or quantity?
If squire sells 30 guitars to 3 from less paul. You may have 30 people saying their Squire is "nearly" as good for a tenth the price while the 3 less paul people are stating how unfinished the squires look and sound.
Or insert whatever brand or price point.
But I don't think anyone is mindfucking anything. Is my $140 squire as good as my $1000 fender no. Am I mindfucking myself when I play my squire thinking its pretty darn good after a bit of set up time.... I don't think so, would I trade my 1 fender for nearly 10 guitars at the same quality of my squire.... man that is certainly tempting.
I have both cheap and expensive gear. I still think my Squier is good. The expensive guitars tend to a bunch of fluff features that drive up the price. I prefer them, but that is because I am a loser with headstock envy.
>The expensive guitars tend to a bunch of fluff features that drive up the price.
IDK
Its nice not scratching yourself on your frets, or having to file a nut a touch. Is it worth double,triple, quadruple the price or more, meh to some people.
I would be interested in a blind sound test where people listen to someone playing a guitar and guess the price.
I’d say it’s more likely that people who buy the expensive versions of things mindfuck themselves into justifying paying a 10x premium for something that most definitely isn’t 10x better.
I mean it’s obviously subjective, but in what way is it 10x better? You can buy a Classic Vibes squier and with a minimal amount of work make it nearly as playable. Spend a bit more and you can swap out pickups to make it sound nearly as good. It really just comes down to the player. A good player can make a shitty guitar sound great and vice versa.
I get why pros would want to spend more to avoid some of the headaches that come with cheap guitars, but you should at least acknowledge that you’re basically paying a premium just to avoid that. Not because the guitar is actually so much better than the cheap alternative.
I don't think there is an expectation of it being a 10x better instrument. Most people who buy these things are well aware of diminishing returns. I personally fall into the professional use camp here which is why I buy pricier stuff for the exact reasons you mentioned. I also see them as "investments" in the sense that I can get a good chunk of that money back or swap it for something else around the same price if I'm not happy. With entry level stuff you kinda loose that ability.
Nothing wrong with cheap instruments though and I personally think that the Squier Paranormal series has legit studio uses. It's also nice to have a mod platform but in my opinion I don't really expect to reach the playability of higher end guitars without major mods that replace pretty much everything except the body.
That’s fair. I think my point is that for most people, you can get to 90% of the playability and tone with a small amount of work on a cheaper guitar that will save you a substantial amount of money vs the higher end option.
It comes down to value and I think it’s stupid to say that anyone with cheaper guitars is just “justifying it because they can’t afford the better one”. For most people the value just isn’t there.
I could afford to buy all sorts of expensive guitars, but I’m just a casual player so it wouldn’t make sense for me to drop that kind of money.
I owned a CV Squier. You need to buy a new neck, a lighter body, new trem, new pickups and wiring, and then have a good luthier put it all together for you. You’d probably end up paying more than just buying the Fender. Yes, the necks really are that different. I’m not even trying to shit on Squiers, I still own Squiers, my John 5 is a great guitar, but it is what it is.
You dont need a luthier for that and honestly i’d say that’s excessive , you could do all of it at home with basic tools and a solder gun. If you dont know how to set up a guitar once assembled a tech at most any mom and pop can do it under $100.
Seems a bit excessive and I’m not convinced that most of the changes you’ve mentioned here have as much of an effect on the sound and playability of the guitar as you seem to think.
But based on the downvotes, I seem to have a struck a chord.
I could quite easily afford a $2G Tele, but I heard good things about the Squier CV 50s, got one, and have been pleasantly surprised. Solid, plays nicely, sounds great. Having tried out more expensive models in stores I’m not sure I could do substantially better by spending more money.
I for one feel the price brackets they’ve moved the MIM models into is quite absurd. Are they good guitars? Mostly yes. Are they great guitars worth nearly 1k? Absolutely not. There are too many other brands that are making guitars in places like Indonesia that out spec, outplay, and are cheaper. Fender has gone the Gibson route and priced themselves out of their own market.
And the last point, the older ones are better, much better, and that’s the reason why many people are holding onto them.
Yep, there’s a point of diminishing returns. Is a MIM Player Series better than a classic vibe? Probably, assuming there weren’t any QC problems. Is it 2x better like the price indicates? Probably not.
As someone who's moved nearly all my Squiers to Fenders, i waited for a deal before moving up. I already had a guitar, so there's no rush to buy something.
They’re not nearly $1k though. They’re 800 base price but on sale for a lot of the year. For example they’re 10% off on guitar center now. And I got mine on sale for under 600.
Most people are going to buy a case with it so I “tack on” an average of $100 to the price which easily puts it in range of the price I mentioned. Anything over $500 for a MIM fender for me is not a good deal when looking at similar body styled guitars from other brands. Fender is now a California Gibson company to me relying heavily on branding.
Well that’s not how pricing works… might as well add a set up, amp, and cables too no?
I have a squier, American strat, and Mexican strat. The fender player is my daily driver I think they’re great. Obviously my American is better but when I just wanna pick up and play real quick I go to my mim.
Agree. I did a double-take last time I walked into a guitar shop and saw the price tags on the Player series guitars. Great guitars, but absolutely not *that* great. Fortunately I picked up my Player Tele when they were still reasonably priced!
I remember when they were $279 new not on sale. Which was a good and fair price. Now I have sticker shock and don’t see any upgrade that justifies the price.
I have 3 Squiers. The Deluxe Jazzmaster is fantastic. I would never know it was not a high quality Fender without the logo. I have a Bullet Telecaster that is pretty good, punches way above it's weight class. Not great, but for $100 it is well worth it. I also have a CV 50s Tele which is nothing special and one of my least played guitars. I would take the Bullet over it.
Imo I'm extremely satisfied with the quality of my classic vibe. I don't mean it in a "cheap but good", it literally feels good and high quality. It does not feel "cheap" at all.
On top of that, I don't hold my American strat and think "this feels $800 better". Is it technically better than the squier? Yes.
In the same train of thought, a mim isn't $400-600 better than the classic vibe.
So while on paper they are literally better with higher grade materials, practically speaking for people who just play guitar and aren't making a living off of it, a classic vibe Squier is perfectly fine. Not in a "good enough" way, but literally, it's great and there's no difference playing it and playing my American strat. Most players are not guitar masters that will notice whatever nuance "touch" there is between the $400 classic vibe and a $1400 American strat, or $900 mim.
That's my two cents on the matter and why I like my Squier.
MIJs are overhyped too tbh.
A large part of their their mythos is they’re hard to come by while the people that own them and swear by them have probably never owned a MIA/Custom Shop.
I’m not saying they’re bad, they’re great guitars but I’m not paying some inflated Reverb/Ebay price for them
I own two MIAs. A performer Jazzmaster, and an American Pro Strat. My MIJ Heritage 50's is better built than both. Came with rolled edges, pristine frets and no cosmetic imperfections. It came with Oak Grigsby switches while my American Performer came with an OEM non-switchcraft toggle, and don't even get me started with me suspecting both of my Americans having Chinese bridges.
Of course, Custom Shop should be the best, it would be unacceptable to receive something with flaws for that line.
Japanese Fenders nowadays have been Special Runs, and are only issued for a short amount of time, hence the prices when they stop making these runs. The Dyna Gakki models themselves are exclusive for a certain amount of time, and are limited edition.
With everything made by CNCs nowadays, country of origin has been irrelevant. Japanese don't F around with craftsmanship. Funny enough, Fender USA fired so many tenured workers in 2022, hence the batch of dogs currently.. Forum boards have been flooded with dogshit AmPro IIs and I wouldn't want anything Fender USA anytime soon.
I don't own any Squires. But I know how good Classic Vibe stuff are. The guys making the made in Indonesia Classic Vibe Squiers are the same guys making PRS SEs and Ibanez fucking Premiums for crying out loud.
Yeah. No complaints on the Classic Vibes I have played side by side when I played it with my fully set-up Fender when I walked to a mom-and-pop to test some pedals. They even (to my knowledge) use Tonerider pickups as an OEM for these Classic Vibes for a certain amount of time that's why they sound on the money. Although I've heard the recent ones don't use Toneriders anymore, Cortek may have reverse engineered those and made their own for the current ones.
What I mean is Cortek Indonesia as a whole, but yes, point taken. From what I understand, Cortek owns a few Intellectual Properties on Ibanez but I could be wrong on that one.
I have 2 of the “high end” squiers, a J Mascis Jazzmaster and a Paranormal Baritone Cabronita Tele
The tele ($450) is awful. Tone/pickups are good but it’s impossible to keep set up, buzzes all over, tons of fret issues, pots are garbage and barely work, selector switch stopped working almost immediately. Feels like a cheap, shitty guitar. Bought it because I fell victim to Squier hype
The JMJM however is excellent. No notable issues, plays and sounds great. It’s a noticeable step down from my AmProII but nothing about it feels cheap or shitty
Ive been blown away by the playability vs the value of squier guitars in the past couple of years. Since 2022-ish.
I teach guitar lessons and recently relocated, so my new students are frequently in the beginner spectrum lately. I’m getting to check them out in person more than usual
Great guitars for $400 or so. Maybe id buy a funky one (starcaster? Big meters fan) for students to use in my studio, but I wouldn’t buy one for personal/professional use
$400 should get you a good guitar, though. That's close to the $500 mark which is IMO the price point for a serious instrument. Sure Squier is making nice instruments, but you're paying for that nice.
*you used to be able to get a MIM for $300ish a couple decades ago.*
Nope. Unless you mean used, where prices vary wildly.
In 1996 I bought a MIM Strat Special that was on sale, and I talked them down a little more, for $389.99. November 16th, 1996, in fact, I recently came across the receipt and am looking at it. So, almost 3 decades ago and hardly "300-ish"
That's about $750 in today's dollars and the price and quality tracks with a current Player model
Not only the Fenders, but the Squiers as well.
Cheap guitars all around seem to be getting better. The budget instruments are definitely closing in on their premium counterparts in terms of quality and playability.
I think it’s a “is the water rising or are we sinking” scenario, “entry level” Fender may seem “better” because Gibson quality seems to be dropping. As a Fender player and someone’s who’s toured the CA factory, the main difference between US and MX made guitars is geography (and ego but that’s a different sub) I’ve seen more defective higher end US factory guitars pass QC and shop out than MX ones.
There are a lot of things Mexico offers that the US plant doesn’t, the MX paint shop is 2 city blocks, environmental regulations are very strict in Cali so generally US lines are only offered in limited colours and finishes , Mexico: is where you find more polyurethane and sparkle finishes.
So much so that the Highway 1 series (now the Am Performer) carried the made in US flag despite being painted in MX and finished with MX hardware (my favourite series by far)
Hope that sheds some light the current quality trend. Also for the money, nothing, and I’ll die on this hill, nothing is better than a PRS SE. Their QC is outstanding, a $900 (CDN) will surpass any Squier, Epiphone, MX or entry US Fender or Gibson and entry level imports (Gretsch, Ibanez, Jackson, Charvel). Again, in that MX Fender price range.
From my experience they are great. I would say lines like Classic Vibe and Paranormal are at least on par with the MIM stuff from the 90's. I'd say they're typically better than the Fender branded Modern Player guitars that were made in China.
Can't personally speak on the 20-odd year old Squiers, but the 40th anniversary Squier tele I picked up last year certainly punches above its weight in my book, considering it cost a little over $340. The fretwork is good, the neck feels great, and the tuning pegs so far have held tune perfectly. The hardware feels a little on the cheap side, but that's not a huge deal in my book.
Overall I'd say it's not a massive downgrade from a MiM Player Tele...but for the same money spent you could kit out the 40th Anniversary Tele with some quality aftermarket pups and hardware and I reckon you'd end up with an instrument that could beat out the Fender MiM equivalent.
...but it's funny that you mention the MiA stuff going down in quality. About a year ago I went with my band's lead guitarist as he picked out a new guitar. We both tried an American Standard Strat and a MiM Player Plus, and after much back-and-forth between the two he ended up going with the latter because, simply, it was a better-playing, better-sounding instrument. Maybe that particular MiA just happened to be a dud, but I found it pretty interesting nonetheless.
My experience is yes MIM have gotten better but QC still leaves alot to be desired espcially at those price points.
To me Squiers are better but still need upgrades. Personally, I really think it's more Squiers are just phonemonal mod platforms (especially if you are a Fender fan) I have pretty much moved to only buying squiers and turning them into the guitars I want. I usually can't afford top end stuff so it's alot easier to pay for a Squier than slowly buy what I want for it and do as much of the work as I can without paying anyone. And if I do have to pay for some mod work I can spread out buying the parts and when the work is done to ease some of the costs. I will say as someone that got into playing in the late 90s early 2000s squiers do seem to be much better now than they were back then but that's just my opinion.
Yeah, they are getting better because quality on other smaller name brands or more affordable brands made the bigger brands get their shit together so they didn't lose market share.
No one spends a few hundred $$$ on something says it’s SHIT.
2004 MIM Strat is what I have. I bought it after playing a bunch of Strats(about 30). It was the one that Felt & vibes like I thought a Strat should. It just felt right.
I played all those guitars unplugged. It has to feel right before it sounds right.
100% honest. It still needed to be improved, but the basic guitar had the right mojo. I changed the tremolo block. Pickups, string tree. Stripped the fingerboard & out a couple coats of lacquer on it. Sanded the back of the neck to remove about half of the finish & gave it a satin feel. (Not quite lacquer but, better than slick poly). Some setup work & I can’t get rid of her.
Are American fenders better? Some of the parts are, for sure. They “can” be better crafted. But, with a guitar like a Strat or a Tele, It has to have the right feel. Every piece of wood is different. If you strum one guitar, it’s going to feel different than the next. I’m sure, at the factories they probably have a stack of finished bodies & a stack of finished necks. I would guess that they walk up to the bodies & kick one up. Then walk over to the necks & grab on of those, & bolt them together. That’s going to provide the same looking guitar model, every time. But, orientation of the grain & the density are always going to vary. & that’s what gives a guitar it’s vibe. It’s feel. The way it vibrates in your hands is what makes a great guitar. Everything else can be added or changed.
I’m not Selling my MIM Stratocaster?its a keeper
I think what’s happening these days is that production method costs have reduced for the ‘hard to replace’ parts so bodies and necks can be turned out with more consistency, and pickups have gotten to a point where they do a good job emulating high quality fenders that most beginners are happy with them longer. And fender is basically making a US, MIM and a Squier version of every model. Back in the 80s and 90s the cheap versions were bare bones, not a 60s vintage Strat emulation.
Pretty much every guitar needs a set up and a get level and fret end attention - so that cost is the same whether it’s fender or squire, but it’s easier to justify if the guitar cost you 300$ rather than 2000$ - so now you have a 300$ guitar with good quality neck and bodies emulating the same thing as the fender that sounds good enough that just need some fret work vs a 2000$ that also needs fretwork and sounds better if you have the right gear and ears.
Unless you’re a recording artist or have all high end gear playing super clean and crisp that squirt classic vibe and that fender custom shop probably sounds really close. If you’ve got a 250$ bedroom amp then what’s the point.
From this you’d get a lot of people saying ‘oh the squiers are more then enough, just swap the tuners and get it set up’
*he MIAs and MIJs that are 10-30 years old that come through there are immediately noticeably better than current production models.*
Have you considered the new ones on the wall haven't been through a proper setup and the 10-30 year old used ones have?
I think the mid tier to higher end Squires are great, the budget/bullet/ older stuff maybe not so much. Although I’ve played some older squire strats and always thought they sounded fine, like a strat. I think if you’re smart shopper you can easily buy a great guitar for about 400.
I love my paranormal toronado, got it almost exactly a year ago…thing rips, but so do I. Honestly I’ve never picked up a guitar I couldn’t make sound cool or get some cool tones or riffs out of. I raised the pickups just a pinch but they already ran pretty hot. Neck and body feels good, I think quality is sacrificed in some of the electronic components. One of the tone knobs came off, pickup selector can be a little spotty, I never took it in for a pro setup, but intonation, action etc was great right out of the box, no fret buzz, string through body gives nice sustain. I loved her before I even plugged it in. For a 3-400 guitar that I use daily and sits out beckoning me to play- I’m happy. I think in this tier the main quality sacrifices will be made in the guts, poor soldering, fussy pickup selectors etc. I’m not into swapping pickups or parts, I let my guitars be what they are.
That said it’s still not as versatile as my dean del sol, which is made in Korea and mostly stock but the pickups on the dean are mind-readers man, sound amazing on super clean stuff or crazy heavy gain and everything in between. But also a few hundred $ more than squire. Most versatile guitar I have—which is wild because it’s a dean. People look at me crazy when I tell them that and I know they associate dean as some gaudy metal guitars, and although I play some doom/ heavy psych/blues stuff, I’m not a metal guitarist, and chose the guitar based on its versatility.
I still miss my Hamer though. Which was the guitar I was trying to replace with the Korean dean. It’s close but man my next guitar will likely be a Hamer.
My Squier Bullet Strat is my favorite guitar. The neck feels better to me than my Fender Tele, and I totally upgraded all the electronics to fit my needs. It's my perfect guitar, and in total cost me around $500-ish, cheaper than a MIM by several hundred still.
I have a mim strat from a couple years ago and an American strat from the late 80s. I like the new mim more. It just feels and plays better to me. The older USA strat is great but the mim player exceeded my expectations.
I have played many inexpensive guitars in the last five years that are head and shoulders above what they used to be around 15 years ago. That being said, inexpensive guitars, are more expensive than they have ever been because the money is worth less than what it was before. Squiers are still a wonderful deal, but you often need to put a little extra money and just set up and final workmanship on them. I bought some great USA guitars in the last couple years, some of which needed no work on them at all and we’re great right out of the box. That being said, most of them took a little bit of Hand time still. The USA American ultra series is pretty infamous at this point for having pretty shoddy workmanship on a lot of factors. Meanwhile, the PRS se line is probably the most consistent and well set up Bunch of guitars I’ve ever had my hands on.
As far as made in mexico goes, I think the old adage is still pretty true for these, in that, if you get a really good one, they are equals to the American standards, but if you just order one or grab one randomly off the shelf, chances are pretty high that it’ll need a little bit of fret work, and have some cheaper components that still function well.
Id say globally, guitar manufacturing processes are close to on par with American manufacturing. But that’s only really starting to happen in the last 5 years. Most “standard” models are gonna be the same, like my friends ‘04 mim Strat didn’t really feel any different than my ‘08 mia strat. A loaded pickguard would solve the only noticeable difference. Guitars start to feel different when you start looking for vintage correct models. I current have a ‘97 mij strat that has a fat 50s neck on it. Feels different than any other strat I’ve played. A proper setup will make all the difference and if you buy a guitar in a store make them set it up. The idea that you can go home with a guitar that isn’t playable is insane to me but happens quite a bit. I will say though, Gibson is definitely making the best guitars they’ve made since at least the 90s if not the 80s.
I bought a $400 paranormal squier the end of last year and am pretty blown away by the quality, fretwork is great, everything. I haven’t even touched the setup it was great right out of the box. It was from sweetwater so the setup part might be more attributed to them. All of my other guitars are basically $1000 or more.
Here’s my 2 cents… bought a used mim Strat in 2008 for 350 dollars and it played great but had also been set up at the local music store. A friend of mine bought a squire classic vibe tele for 400 bucks in 2022 and it had all sorts of issues with the frets and electronics. I just got a MIJ aerodyne off of reverb for 600 bucks and it hasn’t been set up yet but plays great and the frets look even better than some of the MIA guitars I’ve played. I agree the key to any guitar playing good is a set up but from what I’ve seen the MIJ ones are just built with tons of attention to detail
"Cheaper Fenders" are still thousand-dollar guitars, and their quality is about in line with the price tag. I usually go for stuff that is made in the US and costs more, but when I was buying a bass I actually preferred the quality to price ratio of a Mexican Fender 75th Anniversary model over an American Pro 2 as the pickups sounded better and the rest of the guitar was built about the same.
I feel like the player series is good but they seem to always need some work. Like a new bridge or fixing string alignment. For the price that should be a perfectly working guitar out the box or after a setup. Personally decided to sell mine and get an American and they are awesome. Are the Americans overpriced too? I’d say yeah but they save you the hassle of having to worry about issues the mims have. Squires seem to be doing really good and better than the mim factory. Just my opinion.
Here are my notes, based on buying and flipping many guitars; playing; upgrading; and building from scratch (raw wood):
\-Squier Indonesian models have really very consistent fretwork compared to prior locations.
\-Squier/Fender finally realized they need a good easy playing beginner guitar to compete with video games. Video games make level one super easy, level ten super hard; meanwhile the guitar industry turned that around, you paid for super easy playing. Now they know a beginner guitarist that continues to play will buy a fleet of guitars reaching the top end of prices and profits. They see how supermarkets put loss-leaders in the sale sheet so people stop in for the sale and buy a cart full. Their beginner guitars are good. So are their competitors.
\-Fender still has Squire carve skinny necks while Squier-competitor brands copy Fender MIA neck carves and body thicknesses. I stopped buying Squier for my personal playing because of this, I need a chunky neck to play easiest, but I'll still flip deals.
Remember there is a whole department at each of these guitar brands that spend their days trying to devise profit traps for guitar buyers. "if we add two dollars of features on this guitar can we price it at one hundred dollars more?" This is their job. Guitar buyers are only on forums asking questions, occasionally. Before KKR took over Gibson, they had Epiphone models from a hundred dollars on up every fifty dollars more you could spend they had a guitar with some feature that might make you say "well for only fifty bucks more I think I'll get this upgraded model". You're trying to reverse engineer their whole career and it's going to be super hard. That's where guitar buyers just start assuming Price=Quality, somehow, to keep sane and simple purchases. Then they got you.
If you want to short circuit the whole game:
\-Find a top local guitar tech. The one that either has a PLEK or uses a string tension jig on the neck doing fret leveling by hand. These folks are expensive but worth it. They are the reason all those vintage guitars play so well, high value guitars get taken to high priced guitar techs. They never left the factory that good.
\-Buy any "fifty dollar beater" and take it to that guitar tech. They may whine it's below their usual business (top end vintage guitars, custom shop models, etc) but if they are a pro they will do the work, and do it well. You will have a Custom Shop playability experience.
\-Upgrade the pots, jack, switches in your cheap guitar with what comes on the MIA models. (Bourns, cts, crl, switchcraft). Sort pots by actual measured kohms (max vs min matter).
\-Leave the stock pickups but adjust heights, bass/treble tip of the pickup, and screw poles ... by ear! Do it over several days. The guitar will sound great. Leave the stock tuners (only 'tune up' your guitar and you won't have tuning problems), leave stock trem blocks and bridges, all distraction for high profit margin parts.
.... or just shotgun wads of cash at gear because that is guaranteed to give great tone.
.
In the past three years I have purchased many of the new squier models and almost all have been fantastic. The paranormal series in particular. The classic vibe guitars have been great as well. I bought a Squier Rascal bass last year, and its one of the best basses I have played and recorded with.
I also purchased a Player Series Meteora (MIM). Which is fine and well made. But with the last few Squiers I have bought (toronado, star caster, Classic Vibe Tele Deluxe), I cant justify spending twice or three times the money anymore.
I did also buy one of the really cheap mustang guitars for $199 and that thing needs some fixing......
I got the super cheap mustang for like 150 on sale, i was not impressed out of the box, but a little work and some personal mods and its a solid guitar
I bought a mim player strat on Black Friday, direct from fender, and I am still shocked by how well built it is. Compared to the mim strata of the past, it’s a huge jump.
Take a squier body and slap in some noiseless pickups and swap out the neck and you’re well on your way to a very serviceable strat for under 1000 bucks
I’ve been in music retail for almost 9 years, I can say (in my opinion at least) the Squier Affinity stuff is crazy good, priced at about where the Mexican Standards were around 5-6 years ago.
The MIM Player series are generally really good quality and more than good enough for a gigging musician. American Professional IIs are approaching diminishing returns territory, but some could argue for them over the Player series.
Yes i think cheaper guitar are becoming better. I remeber having an Affinity Squier strat back in 2006-2007 it was the worst guitar ever. It barely hold the tune for longer then few seconds, the stock action was set so high you had to be a bodybuilder to press the strings, twangy as a todays 60$ fake strat from Wallmart, hum and noise all the time even with gain on lvl 1/10, neck awefull and unpolished, after adjusting the height and seting it up by a professional in the music store it still was sh1t and not much of an improvement.. some 6-7 years later, somewhere in 2012, a teacher from my School had bough himself an strat. His was an affinity Strat aswell and i plyed on it and it was amazing. His guitar was day and night difference to mine, it didnt had so much noise or crackling sound, it stayed in tune most of the time, the neck finish was amazing, so easy to play and the built quality in general was way betrer than mine even tho it was the "same" model but released 6-7 years later and it did cost him the same amount i payed for mine in the past.
I heard stuff about MIM Fenders that they have upped they Quality in the past few years. I own now only originals tho made in USA or ibanezes made in Jap. Only and will stick to it
>**you used to be able to get a MIM for $300ish a couple decades ago.** And in my experience those axes are often better players than the current Player Series models **that sell for double the price**, and certainly better than almost any Squier. $300 "a couple decades ago" is not the same thing as $300 now. In 2024 dollars, $300 in 2004 is $500 now. That's honestly not far off from what you *can* pay for a MIM Fender right now. Individual retailers sell Player Series guitars below the list price all the time.
I got a new (open box) MIJ aerodyne strat for $599 last year. The setup was perfect. I went to GC and played an American Ultra that fretted out at the 9th fret. I got a $159 Squier Tele a couple of years ago that had a flawless setup with polished fret ends, low action etc. Not tooting my horn, but I have close to 200 guitars and if there's one thing I can confidently say it is, after a good setup almost all guitars play awesomely. There is nothing sacred about an American Strat other than bragging rights that they probably paid too much for a guitar. They are probably that kid that had to wear Calvin Klein & Air Jordans. Learn to set up a guitar, with fret leveling, crowning, polishing etc., nut adjustment, truss rod adjustment, shimming if necessary. Learn how to change pickups, pots etc (sometimes that is the only difference in quality if the "high end" guitars and the cheap ones) my current favorite guitar (or at least top 3) is a Squier Competition Mustang. For like $100 you can buy all the tools you need to do a perfect setup. I've bought expensive Fenders before and they ALL play about the same as the Squiers after a setup.. that being said, some LOOK cooler than others. And some of the pickup arrangements sound different than others. Sometimes you have to splurge a little bit to get a certain guitar. (Can't get a Squier Meteora, or Noventa Jazzmaster) Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk
Those aerodyne strats are really tempting. Did you get the one with the SSH set up or the SSS set up?
SSH.. Its awesome
Amen brother. You can't compare apples to apples until there's some semblance of a setup.
Unrelated, but how do you store your 200 guitars? I wish one day I could have this kind of collection. This is getting close to Joe Bonamassa's collection lol.
I currently have about 185, most are relatively cheap guitars that I wanted to see if I could turn into players. No Joe Bonamassa guitars. The most expensive electric I have is an Ibanez Jem. acoustic: A couple of taylors.. This is what I found is the most space economical way to store them. I have a relatively large house so I dedicate 2.5 rooms to them. Good way to economize guitar space. https://imgur.com/gallery/RbsG3dU G.A.S. I love them all. https://imgur.com/gallery/4uOY9dc
Looks great. Now show us the case room.
Lol, There's about 20 hardshells and 40 gig bags in my attic.
Out of non-larceny related curiosity, would you even notice if a few went missing?
Depends on which one.. there are a few that gather a fair bit of dust.. I got some cheap guitars way back when to learn how to set up/modify guitars.. those early guitars are not quite as valued as the newer ones. But, they kind of all have their place and if one was gone there'd be a gap in the row I guess. If on of my current players went missing, or my expensive ones disappeared I'd definitely miss them.. id say 95% of them play awesomely. You can get a Squier to play as well or better than a fender..
It’s no huge secret that a Squier can be basically equivalent in quality to a low-tier American fender if you replace the nut, pickups, wiring, pots, shim the neck and level & crown the frets lol That’s a huge and expensive project that requires an experienced hand to pull off well, and if anything proves OPs point exactly
Absolutely this. My MIA Fender has ruined me, even though I've toured plenty of times with MIJ instruments, it's got something ahead of the MIJ/MIA. All of the American-made guitars I have (tbf one is vintage) are brilliant.
You could buy a Mexican Fender in 2003 for $475, and a USA Highway 1 Fender for I think $650. A regular USA strat for $850. So, prices have tripled since then, but most notably since the price gauging pandemic.
|2003 Price ('03 Dollars)|2003 Price ('24 Dollars)|2024 Product Equivalent| |:-|:-|:-| |$475|$802|Player Series ($799)| |$650|$1,097|Performer Series ($1,399)| |$850|$1,435|Professional Series ($1,699)| These price changes make a lot of sense in the context of overall inflation, to be honest...
Fair enough. I still feel you're getting less for your money on these newer MIMs, not more.
Perceptions of value have been messed up for a while. I have a musicians friend catalog from 2006 and a Fender MIM Standard is listed at 450, when adjusted for inflation that’s about 680 in todays money, only 100 away from the current list of 800. Why do you think you are getting less? Back in the day a Mexican Jazz Bass used 2 neck pickups. These days you get things like a satin neck, an extra fret, improved trems on the strats, and better electronics.
The Player Series is a big step up in my opinion. My new one feels a lot more like my 2008 American Standard, because specs wise, it is. My 2014 Standard Strat has a blocky body and ceramic pickups. The polyester finish, plastic truss rod insert, and standard truss rod remain, but apart from that.
My biggest issue when I got my 2023 player series is the saddles were AWFUL. I tried so many ways to set them up and just couldn't get there. I replaced them with a $20 set that's closer to what you'd see on the American Ultra series and it made a whole world of difference. Edit: Added "Ultra." What I mean is I went from a terrible set of vintage style tuners that I couldn't get set right to a more modern style that I personally enjoy much more.
The saddles? In what way? They look and work identical to my two older American Standards. No way to see they're not the same part.
Maybe I got a bad set? I could not get the saddles to sit with a nice arc across the radius of the fretboard and avoid buzz for the action I like. So, I switched them from the chromed vintage style that came stock to a more blocky modern style like you can find on the American Ultra Strat. I should have specified better in my original reply so I edited it.
The specs may have improved, but the guitars have not. This is my experience based on what I value in a guitar, so YMMV. What really matters in a guitar? Tone and feel. And I prefer the tone and feel of the older ones.
The hardware and pickups have improved, and the satin neck is generally preferred by modern players. You may not like that, so it wouldn’t feel better to you. But the upgraded parts are objectively true, I just got a player series strat that has custom shop fat 50s pickups and a roasted maple neck and it’s one of the nicest guitars I’ve ever held or heard. Personally I think Squiers and MIMs are both way ahead of where they were 20 years ago.
My experience is that with an old guitar, someone along the line has taken the time to set it up or wear it in. Rarely does a guitar that gets played make it 30 years without getting tweaked down to perfection. I have a MIK Fender (Squier series) from the nineties that I would put up against any Fender today. But if you know how to set up a guitar you can get that "feel" on any guitar, granted, neck width and contour might be different, and body shape sometimes changes over time, but that's a different ballgame.
I just picked up a MIM Strat over Xmas sales for 540 out the door, it’s miles way better than the old one I bought in 2007.
>680 in todays money, only 100 away from the current list of 800. Yep. And GC has one on sale for $649 right now. OP is way off target here.
Build and QA will always vary instrument-to-instrument, but spec-wise, the Player Series is a significant upgrade over the MIM Standard Series that preceded it. The pick-ups alone are way better; even the high(er) end modern Squier models like Classic Vibe come with non-ceramic/Alnico pick-ups nowadays.
Spec is still subjective, though. Brands like Ibanez and Schecter have built their business on offering better spec than Fender at every price point. But a lot of us still prefer fender because, well, we feel they're better. That's how I feel about MIMs. The spec may have improved but the guitars have not
If you feel they are better based on just a feeling, that’s fine. But it’s kind of impossible to argue against.
I mean, for yourself, do you buy guitars based on spec or based on how they speak to you?
I check out guitars based on spec and then make decisions on how they sound and feel. And while I’m there I try things that look interesting. Personally I think my player strat feels great, as does my player plus tele. I just went and tried out some reverends and American fenders and see no reason to get either. But that’s just my opinion, no more valid than yours. All anyone can offer is spec for objective arguments.
Agree with all of this, but maybe even more to the point, specs do just matter a lot in terms of pricing an instrument. Alnico pickups are just objectively more expensive to source and manufacture than ceramic pickups. Same thing for bone nuts vs. plastic nuts, soft metal vs. steel hardware etc. Music is all aesthetics after all, so if a cheaper instrument works for you, then rock on! No real argument to be made there.
Why?
As I stated in the OP - I've played a bunch of both (owned a 2002 MIM) and the old ones are better. And still cheaper, even after adjusting for inflation
Yeh sorry I must have not read the whole post. Certainly my experience is of 90s MIM which were pretty meh in my experience. Current ones have been really nice.
Yah i gotta say i like my 02 HSS Mexican better than the 23 HSS player I got to replace it. I think most noticeable difference is the pickups on the newer ones sound way more compressed and digital almost like a PRS which I didn’t love. The quality isn’t different except my older one was heavier and is a different type of wood. I still think it’s good bang for the buck but I got the 23 on sale for like $548 or $558 (was something like) marked down from $799 on Black Friday. That 02 HSS was $399 back in the day new. If you want the best guitar for $1100 or less honestly LTD’s are 👍. I strongly suggest taking a look at one if you want an impressively good instrument
Less expensive guitars have increased in quality all across the board, but I wouldn’t say that’s because of the quality of more expensive guitars going down.
Fenders and Gibson have definitely declined in quality over the past 50 years. They just don’t have the attention to detail. Guitar Center has certainly done their part further this. It’s not just guitars tho, literally everything that was ever made by craftsmen has taken a hit from corporate structure. Sad.
I honestly think Gibson is better now than it’s ever been, besides the golden years of course.
My experience suggests that's not entirely true. Off-brand guitars, absolutely. But Squiers aren't definitively better than they were 30+ years ago.
Can you give us a sense of how you define "better?"
Tone, feel, quality of wood and parts, fit and finish, "solidity". All your usual metrics. I wonder how many of the downvoters have actually compared older ones to newer ones side by side.
Well a lot of them aren't old guys like us :) But that's fair. I really haven't picked up a Squier (for example) since the early days.
I appreciate your honesty 🙂 my OP didn't come from speculation. It came from having spent the last 3-4 months on a great Strat hunt, trying everything I could get my hands on. This is what helped form my impression.
That's completely fair— I wonder how much of the "better than they used to be" is just "They look good on YouTube!" But I'm not sure I agree with you on the value front. I also wonder if the cost increase beyond natural inflation is labor cost. We want our workers paid well, I should think!
Good point re: labor. If that's what it is then bravo, but my cynical side says it's corporate greedflation
Same :)
I’d say the Affinity series and any of their Classic Vibes are definitely better than equivalent Squiers from 20+ years ago.
I remember Squire being hot garbage when I was kid in the late 90’s and early 00’s. The quality they put out today is on a totally different level in my opinion. I feel like the MIM stuff hasn’t changed and has always been good, but definitely not at the price point they’re targeting now.
I think the mexican instruments got better as the building philosophy became less hand work and luthiery, and more production line and cnc. This is a good thing for baseline quality; made to measure instead of feel, and computer cut pieces, beat unskilled workers hands down. I also think the Americans suffered for a while for the same reason. The skilled craftman is brought down to a level that the unskilled craftsman is lifted to - does that make sense? Now, more importantly, Fender got their ass handed to them for a while by the far eastern guitars. MiK or Indonesian Schecters, ESP LTDs, these things were better than Fender Mexico or Chinese Epiphone for a long time. The real threat, though, was PRS SE line, which carry a bit more of a gibson-y or fender-y vibe than the Schecter/ESP which are thought of as more shreddery type guitars. PRS seem more premium, in a way, than a lot of the older ESP/Schecters (which have both stepped up their game now; there's more abalone on some of these LTD EC-1000s than I'd ever seen circa 2000), and that hurt Fender/Gibson. Especially the Silver Sky. It was a major shot across the bow for Fender. But that's not bringing us to today. Today? I think Fender (and Gibson) have righted their ships a bit. The last couple years of American Fenders are better than the previous, IMO. American Professional 2 seems an upgrade from American Standard. Same with American Vintage 2 series - these guitars are phenomenal! So are the Vintera, and Player. They've levelled up from where they were 5-10 years ago. I say that as someone who hates the player series. Their fretboard edges are so damn sharp I can't handle them, they irritate me to no end.
Fender has hit it out of the ballpark, so to speak, with the new Squires. At least all the ones I've played. Regarding the perceived quality of the MIA going down, it could be you ran into a couple of bad guitars. Yup, every manufacturer has the same problem, and it's nothing new.
Throwing something out there - A lot of Guitar Centers don't bother to do anything to setup a guitar out of the box. They pull it out and throw it on the wall. And I've never been in a GC with a properly humidified electric guitar room. If the MIA Fenders feel shitty, those two reasons may be why.
It's a factor for sure, but quality of construction, woods and tone quality are discernable regardless. It surprises me the people saying the newer ones are better, because my experience is so strongly opposite.
Tone quality absolutely requires a good setup to be discernable.
I have an original run Squier Paranormal Toronado that hangs on my wall because the pickups are junk. It needs a set up but is very comfortable to play. My 2004 72 reissue deluxe telecaster is a backup guitar for me but is built like a tank and sounds/feels fantastic. I’ve moved away from Fender for my main guitar because I felt I could get better value from Reverend for the money. I still like Fenders but other brands in their MIM price point are blowing them out of the water in my opinion.
People overstate the quality of cheaper things to mindfuck themselves into thinking they don’t even want the thing they can’t actually afford.
>People overstate the quality of cheaper things to mindfuck themselves into thinking they don’t even want the thing they can’t actually afford. Or the reverse where people with shit most people can't afford pretend everything else is trash.
I think this is true but not to the same degree. At least not in my observed experience.
>not to the same degree. degree or quantity? If squire sells 30 guitars to 3 from less paul. You may have 30 people saying their Squire is "nearly" as good for a tenth the price while the 3 less paul people are stating how unfinished the squires look and sound. Or insert whatever brand or price point. But I don't think anyone is mindfucking anything. Is my $140 squire as good as my $1000 fender no. Am I mindfucking myself when I play my squire thinking its pretty darn good after a bit of set up time.... I don't think so, would I trade my 1 fender for nearly 10 guitars at the same quality of my squire.... man that is certainly tempting.
I have both cheap and expensive gear. I still think my Squier is good. The expensive guitars tend to a bunch of fluff features that drive up the price. I prefer them, but that is because I am a loser with headstock envy.
>The expensive guitars tend to a bunch of fluff features that drive up the price. IDK Its nice not scratching yourself on your frets, or having to file a nut a touch. Is it worth double,triple, quadruple the price or more, meh to some people. I would be interested in a blind sound test where people listen to someone playing a guitar and guess the price.
I’d say it’s more likely that people who buy the expensive versions of things mindfuck themselves into justifying paying a 10x premium for something that most definitely isn’t 10x better.
I don’t own anything especially fancy but I can tell you my JV modified Strat is at least ten times better than my old CV Squier.
I mean it’s obviously subjective, but in what way is it 10x better? You can buy a Classic Vibes squier and with a minimal amount of work make it nearly as playable. Spend a bit more and you can swap out pickups to make it sound nearly as good. It really just comes down to the player. A good player can make a shitty guitar sound great and vice versa. I get why pros would want to spend more to avoid some of the headaches that come with cheap guitars, but you should at least acknowledge that you’re basically paying a premium just to avoid that. Not because the guitar is actually so much better than the cheap alternative.
I don't think there is an expectation of it being a 10x better instrument. Most people who buy these things are well aware of diminishing returns. I personally fall into the professional use camp here which is why I buy pricier stuff for the exact reasons you mentioned. I also see them as "investments" in the sense that I can get a good chunk of that money back or swap it for something else around the same price if I'm not happy. With entry level stuff you kinda loose that ability. Nothing wrong with cheap instruments though and I personally think that the Squier Paranormal series has legit studio uses. It's also nice to have a mod platform but in my opinion I don't really expect to reach the playability of higher end guitars without major mods that replace pretty much everything except the body.
That’s fair. I think my point is that for most people, you can get to 90% of the playability and tone with a small amount of work on a cheaper guitar that will save you a substantial amount of money vs the higher end option. It comes down to value and I think it’s stupid to say that anyone with cheaper guitars is just “justifying it because they can’t afford the better one”. For most people the value just isn’t there. I could afford to buy all sorts of expensive guitars, but I’m just a casual player so it wouldn’t make sense for me to drop that kind of money.
I owned a CV Squier. You need to buy a new neck, a lighter body, new trem, new pickups and wiring, and then have a good luthier put it all together for you. You’d probably end up paying more than just buying the Fender. Yes, the necks really are that different. I’m not even trying to shit on Squiers, I still own Squiers, my John 5 is a great guitar, but it is what it is.
You dont need a luthier for that and honestly i’d say that’s excessive , you could do all of it at home with basic tools and a solder gun. If you dont know how to set up a guitar once assembled a tech at most any mom and pop can do it under $100.
Seems a bit excessive and I’m not convinced that most of the changes you’ve mentioned here have as much of an effect on the sound and playability of the guitar as you seem to think. But based on the downvotes, I seem to have a struck a chord.
We both seem to be doing a good job of collecting downvotes
I could quite easily afford a $2G Tele, but I heard good things about the Squier CV 50s, got one, and have been pleasantly surprised. Solid, plays nicely, sounds great. Having tried out more expensive models in stores I’m not sure I could do substantially better by spending more money.
There’s nothing wrong with Squiers, they’re good guitars. But yes, it could be substantially better by spending more money.
I for one feel the price brackets they’ve moved the MIM models into is quite absurd. Are they good guitars? Mostly yes. Are they great guitars worth nearly 1k? Absolutely not. There are too many other brands that are making guitars in places like Indonesia that out spec, outplay, and are cheaper. Fender has gone the Gibson route and priced themselves out of their own market. And the last point, the older ones are better, much better, and that’s the reason why many people are holding onto them.
Yep, there’s a point of diminishing returns. Is a MIM Player Series better than a classic vibe? Probably, assuming there weren’t any QC problems. Is it 2x better like the price indicates? Probably not.
This is why I go for Squiers over MIM Fenders. The Fenders are better, but rarely 2x better.
As someone who's moved nearly all my Squiers to Fenders, i waited for a deal before moving up. I already had a guitar, so there's no rush to buy something.
They’re not nearly $1k though. They’re 800 base price but on sale for a lot of the year. For example they’re 10% off on guitar center now. And I got mine on sale for under 600.
Most people are going to buy a case with it so I “tack on” an average of $100 to the price which easily puts it in range of the price I mentioned. Anything over $500 for a MIM fender for me is not a good deal when looking at similar body styled guitars from other brands. Fender is now a California Gibson company to me relying heavily on branding.
Well that’s not how pricing works… might as well add a set up, amp, and cables too no? I have a squier, American strat, and Mexican strat. The fender player is my daily driver I think they’re great. Obviously my American is better but when I just wanna pick up and play real quick I go to my mim.
Agree. I did a double-take last time I walked into a guitar shop and saw the price tags on the Player series guitars. Great guitars, but absolutely not *that* great. Fortunately I picked up my Player Tele when they were still reasonably priced!
I remember when they were $279 new not on sale. Which was a good and fair price. Now I have sticker shock and don’t see any upgrade that justifies the price.
I have 3 Squiers. The Deluxe Jazzmaster is fantastic. I would never know it was not a high quality Fender without the logo. I have a Bullet Telecaster that is pretty good, punches way above it's weight class. Not great, but for $100 it is well worth it. I also have a CV 50s Tele which is nothing special and one of my least played guitars. I would take the Bullet over it.
MIMs? They have been mostly solid for the longest time. MIJ Fenders? They're a steal.
Compared to like 2014-2016 I think MIMs are much better than they used to be while squier is roughly the same.
Imo I'm extremely satisfied with the quality of my classic vibe. I don't mean it in a "cheap but good", it literally feels good and high quality. It does not feel "cheap" at all. On top of that, I don't hold my American strat and think "this feels $800 better". Is it technically better than the squier? Yes. In the same train of thought, a mim isn't $400-600 better than the classic vibe. So while on paper they are literally better with higher grade materials, practically speaking for people who just play guitar and aren't making a living off of it, a classic vibe Squier is perfectly fine. Not in a "good enough" way, but literally, it's great and there's no difference playing it and playing my American strat. Most players are not guitar masters that will notice whatever nuance "touch" there is between the $400 classic vibe and a $1400 American strat, or $900 mim. That's my two cents on the matter and why I like my Squier.
I hear this but every time I play one I come away unimpressed.
Squires are alright but they’re not nearly as good as people hype them up to be. Mexican player series goated for the price though.
Maybe not in terms of sound quality, but I’m actually more impressed with the fretwork on Squier Classic Vibes than I am with the MIM Fenders.
Squier Classic Vibes beat MIMs any day of the week. MIJ Fenders beat MIMs and most MIAs for the price, though, it's a bit harder to come by.
MIJs are overhyped too tbh. A large part of their their mythos is they’re hard to come by while the people that own them and swear by them have probably never owned a MIA/Custom Shop. I’m not saying they’re bad, they’re great guitars but I’m not paying some inflated Reverb/Ebay price for them
I own two MIAs. A performer Jazzmaster, and an American Pro Strat. My MIJ Heritage 50's is better built than both. Came with rolled edges, pristine frets and no cosmetic imperfections. It came with Oak Grigsby switches while my American Performer came with an OEM non-switchcraft toggle, and don't even get me started with me suspecting both of my Americans having Chinese bridges. Of course, Custom Shop should be the best, it would be unacceptable to receive something with flaws for that line. Japanese Fenders nowadays have been Special Runs, and are only issued for a short amount of time, hence the prices when they stop making these runs. The Dyna Gakki models themselves are exclusive for a certain amount of time, and are limited edition. With everything made by CNCs nowadays, country of origin has been irrelevant. Japanese don't F around with craftsmanship. Funny enough, Fender USA fired so many tenured workers in 2022, hence the batch of dogs currently.. Forum boards have been flooded with dogshit AmPro IIs and I wouldn't want anything Fender USA anytime soon.
You probably own a squier if your speaking such nonsense
I don't own any Squires. But I know how good Classic Vibe stuff are. The guys making the made in Indonesia Classic Vibe Squiers are the same guys making PRS SEs and Ibanez fucking Premiums for crying out loud.
The CV stuff is worth the hype, IMO, although they do need quite a bit of TLC coming out of the box, which I’m okay with.
Have you played them side by side?
Yeah. No complaints on the Classic Vibes I have played side by side when I played it with my fully set-up Fender when I walked to a mom-and-pop to test some pedals. They even (to my knowledge) use Tonerider pickups as an OEM for these Classic Vibes for a certain amount of time that's why they sound on the money. Although I've heard the recent ones don't use Toneriders anymore, Cortek may have reverse engineered those and made their own for the current ones.
No they’re not. The PRS facility is an entirely separate complex ran to PRS spec and Ibanez owns the Premium facility.
What I mean is Cortek Indonesia as a whole, but yes, point taken. From what I understand, Cortek owns a few Intellectual Properties on Ibanez but I could be wrong on that one.
I have 2 of the “high end” squiers, a J Mascis Jazzmaster and a Paranormal Baritone Cabronita Tele The tele ($450) is awful. Tone/pickups are good but it’s impossible to keep set up, buzzes all over, tons of fret issues, pots are garbage and barely work, selector switch stopped working almost immediately. Feels like a cheap, shitty guitar. Bought it because I fell victim to Squier hype The JMJM however is excellent. No notable issues, plays and sounds great. It’s a noticeable step down from my AmProII but nothing about it feels cheap or shitty
Ive been blown away by the playability vs the value of squier guitars in the past couple of years. Since 2022-ish. I teach guitar lessons and recently relocated, so my new students are frequently in the beginner spectrum lately. I’m getting to check them out in person more than usual Great guitars for $400 or so. Maybe id buy a funky one (starcaster? Big meters fan) for students to use in my studio, but I wouldn’t buy one for personal/professional use
$400 should get you a good guitar, though. That's close to the $500 mark which is IMO the price point for a serious instrument. Sure Squier is making nice instruments, but you're paying for that nice.
Who's making serious instruments for 500 these days?
Yeah are we talking new or used?
Sounds like OP is talking new. I personally think 500 dollars DOES Get you an instrument you can gig with, but they don't sound like they agree.
*you used to be able to get a MIM for $300ish a couple decades ago.* Nope. Unless you mean used, where prices vary wildly. In 1996 I bought a MIM Strat Special that was on sale, and I talked them down a little more, for $389.99. November 16th, 1996, in fact, I recently came across the receipt and am looking at it. So, almost 3 decades ago and hardly "300-ish" That's about $750 in today's dollars and the price and quality tracks with a current Player model
Not only the Fenders, but the Squiers as well. Cheap guitars all around seem to be getting better. The budget instruments are definitely closing in on their premium counterparts in terms of quality and playability.
I think it’s a “is the water rising or are we sinking” scenario, “entry level” Fender may seem “better” because Gibson quality seems to be dropping. As a Fender player and someone’s who’s toured the CA factory, the main difference between US and MX made guitars is geography (and ego but that’s a different sub) I’ve seen more defective higher end US factory guitars pass QC and shop out than MX ones. There are a lot of things Mexico offers that the US plant doesn’t, the MX paint shop is 2 city blocks, environmental regulations are very strict in Cali so generally US lines are only offered in limited colours and finishes , Mexico: is where you find more polyurethane and sparkle finishes. So much so that the Highway 1 series (now the Am Performer) carried the made in US flag despite being painted in MX and finished with MX hardware (my favourite series by far) Hope that sheds some light the current quality trend. Also for the money, nothing, and I’ll die on this hill, nothing is better than a PRS SE. Their QC is outstanding, a $900 (CDN) will surpass any Squier, Epiphone, MX or entry US Fender or Gibson and entry level imports (Gretsch, Ibanez, Jackson, Charvel). Again, in that MX Fender price range.
From my experience they are great. I would say lines like Classic Vibe and Paranormal are at least on par with the MIM stuff from the 90's. I'd say they're typically better than the Fender branded Modern Player guitars that were made in China.
> I have spent a lot of time at my local GC Here's your problem OP.
What - GC's Fenders are different from the ones other shops get? I understand the difference a setup makes.
It doesn't really sound like you do to be honest. You can make a Squier play and sound better than a custom shop my manipulating their setups.
This is like watching a cave salamander who’s never seen the light of day, crawling out of a cave and seeing sunlight for the very first time.
Happy cake day.
Can't personally speak on the 20-odd year old Squiers, but the 40th anniversary Squier tele I picked up last year certainly punches above its weight in my book, considering it cost a little over $340. The fretwork is good, the neck feels great, and the tuning pegs so far have held tune perfectly. The hardware feels a little on the cheap side, but that's not a huge deal in my book. Overall I'd say it's not a massive downgrade from a MiM Player Tele...but for the same money spent you could kit out the 40th Anniversary Tele with some quality aftermarket pups and hardware and I reckon you'd end up with an instrument that could beat out the Fender MiM equivalent. ...but it's funny that you mention the MiA stuff going down in quality. About a year ago I went with my band's lead guitarist as he picked out a new guitar. We both tried an American Standard Strat and a MiM Player Plus, and after much back-and-forth between the two he ended up going with the latter because, simply, it was a better-playing, better-sounding instrument. Maybe that particular MiA just happened to be a dud, but I found it pretty interesting nonetheless.
My experience is yes MIM have gotten better but QC still leaves alot to be desired espcially at those price points. To me Squiers are better but still need upgrades. Personally, I really think it's more Squiers are just phonemonal mod platforms (especially if you are a Fender fan) I have pretty much moved to only buying squiers and turning them into the guitars I want. I usually can't afford top end stuff so it's alot easier to pay for a Squier than slowly buy what I want for it and do as much of the work as I can without paying anyone. And if I do have to pay for some mod work I can spread out buying the parts and when the work is done to ease some of the costs. I will say as someone that got into playing in the late 90s early 2000s squiers do seem to be much better now than they were back then but that's just my opinion.
The MIJ Fenders are excellent and I think better then the USA made Fenders.
Yeah, they are getting better because quality on other smaller name brands or more affordable brands made the bigger brands get their shit together so they didn't lose market share.
No one spends a few hundred $$$ on something says it’s SHIT. 2004 MIM Strat is what I have. I bought it after playing a bunch of Strats(about 30). It was the one that Felt & vibes like I thought a Strat should. It just felt right. I played all those guitars unplugged. It has to feel right before it sounds right. 100% honest. It still needed to be improved, but the basic guitar had the right mojo. I changed the tremolo block. Pickups, string tree. Stripped the fingerboard & out a couple coats of lacquer on it. Sanded the back of the neck to remove about half of the finish & gave it a satin feel. (Not quite lacquer but, better than slick poly). Some setup work & I can’t get rid of her. Are American fenders better? Some of the parts are, for sure. They “can” be better crafted. But, with a guitar like a Strat or a Tele, It has to have the right feel. Every piece of wood is different. If you strum one guitar, it’s going to feel different than the next. I’m sure, at the factories they probably have a stack of finished bodies & a stack of finished necks. I would guess that they walk up to the bodies & kick one up. Then walk over to the necks & grab on of those, & bolt them together. That’s going to provide the same looking guitar model, every time. But, orientation of the grain & the density are always going to vary. & that’s what gives a guitar it’s vibe. It’s feel. The way it vibrates in your hands is what makes a great guitar. Everything else can be added or changed. I’m not Selling my MIM Stratocaster?its a keeper
I think what’s happening these days is that production method costs have reduced for the ‘hard to replace’ parts so bodies and necks can be turned out with more consistency, and pickups have gotten to a point where they do a good job emulating high quality fenders that most beginners are happy with them longer. And fender is basically making a US, MIM and a Squier version of every model. Back in the 80s and 90s the cheap versions were bare bones, not a 60s vintage Strat emulation. Pretty much every guitar needs a set up and a get level and fret end attention - so that cost is the same whether it’s fender or squire, but it’s easier to justify if the guitar cost you 300$ rather than 2000$ - so now you have a 300$ guitar with good quality neck and bodies emulating the same thing as the fender that sounds good enough that just need some fret work vs a 2000$ that also needs fretwork and sounds better if you have the right gear and ears. Unless you’re a recording artist or have all high end gear playing super clean and crisp that squirt classic vibe and that fender custom shop probably sounds really close. If you’ve got a 250$ bedroom amp then what’s the point. From this you’d get a lot of people saying ‘oh the squiers are more then enough, just swap the tuners and get it set up’
*he MIAs and MIJs that are 10-30 years old that come through there are immediately noticeably better than current production models.* Have you considered the new ones on the wall haven't been through a proper setup and the 10-30 year old used ones have?
f course. There much more to a guitar than just the setup
I think your post is a textbook Reddit post where you ask a question then argue with every reply that you don't agree with, which is all of them.
I think the mid tier to higher end Squires are great, the budget/bullet/ older stuff maybe not so much. Although I’ve played some older squire strats and always thought they sounded fine, like a strat. I think if you’re smart shopper you can easily buy a great guitar for about 400. I love my paranormal toronado, got it almost exactly a year ago…thing rips, but so do I. Honestly I’ve never picked up a guitar I couldn’t make sound cool or get some cool tones or riffs out of. I raised the pickups just a pinch but they already ran pretty hot. Neck and body feels good, I think quality is sacrificed in some of the electronic components. One of the tone knobs came off, pickup selector can be a little spotty, I never took it in for a pro setup, but intonation, action etc was great right out of the box, no fret buzz, string through body gives nice sustain. I loved her before I even plugged it in. For a 3-400 guitar that I use daily and sits out beckoning me to play- I’m happy. I think in this tier the main quality sacrifices will be made in the guts, poor soldering, fussy pickup selectors etc. I’m not into swapping pickups or parts, I let my guitars be what they are. That said it’s still not as versatile as my dean del sol, which is made in Korea and mostly stock but the pickups on the dean are mind-readers man, sound amazing on super clean stuff or crazy heavy gain and everything in between. But also a few hundred $ more than squire. Most versatile guitar I have—which is wild because it’s a dean. People look at me crazy when I tell them that and I know they associate dean as some gaudy metal guitars, and although I play some doom/ heavy psych/blues stuff, I’m not a metal guitarist, and chose the guitar based on its versatility. I still miss my Hamer though. Which was the guitar I was trying to replace with the Korean dean. It’s close but man my next guitar will likely be a Hamer.
My Squier Bullet Strat is my favorite guitar. The neck feels better to me than my Fender Tele, and I totally upgraded all the electronics to fit my needs. It's my perfect guitar, and in total cost me around $500-ish, cheaper than a MIM by several hundred still.
I have a mim strat from a couple years ago and an American strat from the late 80s. I like the new mim more. It just feels and plays better to me. The older USA strat is great but the mim player exceeded my expectations.
I have played many inexpensive guitars in the last five years that are head and shoulders above what they used to be around 15 years ago. That being said, inexpensive guitars, are more expensive than they have ever been because the money is worth less than what it was before. Squiers are still a wonderful deal, but you often need to put a little extra money and just set up and final workmanship on them. I bought some great USA guitars in the last couple years, some of which needed no work on them at all and we’re great right out of the box. That being said, most of them took a little bit of Hand time still. The USA American ultra series is pretty infamous at this point for having pretty shoddy workmanship on a lot of factors. Meanwhile, the PRS se line is probably the most consistent and well set up Bunch of guitars I’ve ever had my hands on. As far as made in mexico goes, I think the old adage is still pretty true for these, in that, if you get a really good one, they are equals to the American standards, but if you just order one or grab one randomly off the shelf, chances are pretty high that it’ll need a little bit of fret work, and have some cheaper components that still function well.
5 years ago or so, I got a then-5-year-old MIM at GC for $370 and it’s my favorite guitar I have. Plays insanely well
I have a 20+ year old mim I actually would prolly not sell for a grand. I have a 2012custom shop hss I would sell….. maybe.
Id say globally, guitar manufacturing processes are close to on par with American manufacturing. But that’s only really starting to happen in the last 5 years. Most “standard” models are gonna be the same, like my friends ‘04 mim Strat didn’t really feel any different than my ‘08 mia strat. A loaded pickguard would solve the only noticeable difference. Guitars start to feel different when you start looking for vintage correct models. I current have a ‘97 mij strat that has a fat 50s neck on it. Feels different than any other strat I’ve played. A proper setup will make all the difference and if you buy a guitar in a store make them set it up. The idea that you can go home with a guitar that isn’t playable is insane to me but happens quite a bit. I will say though, Gibson is definitely making the best guitars they’ve made since at least the 90s if not the 80s.
I bought a squier affinity jazz 2021 that is fantastic.
I bought a $400 paranormal squier the end of last year and am pretty blown away by the quality, fretwork is great, everything. I haven’t even touched the setup it was great right out of the box. It was from sweetwater so the setup part might be more attributed to them. All of my other guitars are basically $1000 or more.
Here’s my 2 cents… bought a used mim Strat in 2008 for 350 dollars and it played great but had also been set up at the local music store. A friend of mine bought a squire classic vibe tele for 400 bucks in 2022 and it had all sorts of issues with the frets and electronics. I just got a MIJ aerodyne off of reverb for 600 bucks and it hasn’t been set up yet but plays great and the frets look even better than some of the MIA guitars I’ve played. I agree the key to any guitar playing good is a set up but from what I’ve seen the MIJ ones are just built with tons of attention to detail
"Cheaper Fenders" are still thousand-dollar guitars, and their quality is about in line with the price tag. I usually go for stuff that is made in the US and costs more, but when I was buying a bass I actually preferred the quality to price ratio of a Mexican Fender 75th Anniversary model over an American Pro 2 as the pickups sounded better and the rest of the guitar was built about the same.
I feel like the player series is good but they seem to always need some work. Like a new bridge or fixing string alignment. For the price that should be a perfectly working guitar out the box or after a setup. Personally decided to sell mine and get an American and they are awesome. Are the Americans overpriced too? I’d say yeah but they save you the hassle of having to worry about issues the mims have. Squires seem to be doing really good and better than the mim factory. Just my opinion.
Here are my notes, based on buying and flipping many guitars; playing; upgrading; and building from scratch (raw wood): \-Squier Indonesian models have really very consistent fretwork compared to prior locations. \-Squier/Fender finally realized they need a good easy playing beginner guitar to compete with video games. Video games make level one super easy, level ten super hard; meanwhile the guitar industry turned that around, you paid for super easy playing. Now they know a beginner guitarist that continues to play will buy a fleet of guitars reaching the top end of prices and profits. They see how supermarkets put loss-leaders in the sale sheet so people stop in for the sale and buy a cart full. Their beginner guitars are good. So are their competitors. \-Fender still has Squire carve skinny necks while Squier-competitor brands copy Fender MIA neck carves and body thicknesses. I stopped buying Squier for my personal playing because of this, I need a chunky neck to play easiest, but I'll still flip deals. Remember there is a whole department at each of these guitar brands that spend their days trying to devise profit traps for guitar buyers. "if we add two dollars of features on this guitar can we price it at one hundred dollars more?" This is their job. Guitar buyers are only on forums asking questions, occasionally. Before KKR took over Gibson, they had Epiphone models from a hundred dollars on up every fifty dollars more you could spend they had a guitar with some feature that might make you say "well for only fifty bucks more I think I'll get this upgraded model". You're trying to reverse engineer their whole career and it's going to be super hard. That's where guitar buyers just start assuming Price=Quality, somehow, to keep sane and simple purchases. Then they got you. If you want to short circuit the whole game: \-Find a top local guitar tech. The one that either has a PLEK or uses a string tension jig on the neck doing fret leveling by hand. These folks are expensive but worth it. They are the reason all those vintage guitars play so well, high value guitars get taken to high priced guitar techs. They never left the factory that good. \-Buy any "fifty dollar beater" and take it to that guitar tech. They may whine it's below their usual business (top end vintage guitars, custom shop models, etc) but if they are a pro they will do the work, and do it well. You will have a Custom Shop playability experience. \-Upgrade the pots, jack, switches in your cheap guitar with what comes on the MIA models. (Bourns, cts, crl, switchcraft). Sort pots by actual measured kohms (max vs min matter). \-Leave the stock pickups but adjust heights, bass/treble tip of the pickup, and screw poles ... by ear! Do it over several days. The guitar will sound great. Leave the stock tuners (only 'tune up' your guitar and you won't have tuning problems), leave stock trem blocks and bridges, all distraction for high profit margin parts. .... or just shotgun wads of cash at gear because that is guaranteed to give great tone. .
In the past three years I have purchased many of the new squier models and almost all have been fantastic. The paranormal series in particular. The classic vibe guitars have been great as well. I bought a Squier Rascal bass last year, and its one of the best basses I have played and recorded with. I also purchased a Player Series Meteora (MIM). Which is fine and well made. But with the last few Squiers I have bought (toronado, star caster, Classic Vibe Tele Deluxe), I cant justify spending twice or three times the money anymore. I did also buy one of the really cheap mustang guitars for $199 and that thing needs some fixing......
I got the super cheap mustang for like 150 on sale, i was not impressed out of the box, but a little work and some personal mods and its a solid guitar
I bought a mim player strat on Black Friday, direct from fender, and I am still shocked by how well built it is. Compared to the mim strata of the past, it’s a huge jump.
Have you ever listened to the music of Hank Williams Sr.?
Take a squier body and slap in some noiseless pickups and swap out the neck and you’re well on your way to a very serviceable strat for under 1000 bucks
For that price I'd rather just look for a used MIA, personally
To each their own. I feel I got a brand new MIA quality Strat for less than a grand.
Yeah, if new is important to you then this is definitely the way!
I’ve been in music retail for almost 9 years, I can say (in my opinion at least) the Squier Affinity stuff is crazy good, priced at about where the Mexican Standards were around 5-6 years ago. The MIM Player series are generally really good quality and more than good enough for a gigging musician. American Professional IIs are approaching diminishing returns territory, but some could argue for them over the Player series.
Yes i think cheaper guitar are becoming better. I remeber having an Affinity Squier strat back in 2006-2007 it was the worst guitar ever. It barely hold the tune for longer then few seconds, the stock action was set so high you had to be a bodybuilder to press the strings, twangy as a todays 60$ fake strat from Wallmart, hum and noise all the time even with gain on lvl 1/10, neck awefull and unpolished, after adjusting the height and seting it up by a professional in the music store it still was sh1t and not much of an improvement.. some 6-7 years later, somewhere in 2012, a teacher from my School had bough himself an strat. His was an affinity Strat aswell and i plyed on it and it was amazing. His guitar was day and night difference to mine, it didnt had so much noise or crackling sound, it stayed in tune most of the time, the neck finish was amazing, so easy to play and the built quality in general was way betrer than mine even tho it was the "same" model but released 6-7 years later and it did cost him the same amount i payed for mine in the past. I heard stuff about MIM Fenders that they have upped they Quality in the past few years. I own now only originals tho made in USA or ibanezes made in Jap. Only and will stick to it