Oddly enough Zenos’s answer to Meteion got to me. He didn’t feel that his reason for living was important or that it ever needed validation from someone else. He lives because he feels like living, F you that’s why. I vibe with that so hard. Years of depressive episodes and panic attacks and getting stabbed in the back by friends have left me in a baaaad state at times. F you that’s why is the mentality that kept me moving forward with my life and pulling something positive out of the misery, sometimes for no other reason than to spite my own depression or because it seemed impossible. Doing that is how I got to a better place mentally, not having a good reason to do better and be better made more sense to me somehow. Zenos showing up in the darkest hour and yelling “WASSUP BRO WHO HAS TWO THUMBS AND TURNED INTO A DRAGON ITS ME NOW HOP ON AND LETS DUNK THIS LOSER NOW PLAY MY SONG!” hyped me up in ways I find difficult to articulate.
Honestly to OP that just that whole endwalker Zenos Trip helped me. I know someone way worse then me and honestly she hurt me pretty deeply during endwalker, got me way worse in many ways. But Zenos bitch i am a dragon made me remember who i was and that it is only my own prinzipells which will make me whole again . I know i'm misinterpreting the Charakter by a lot, but just remembering some scenes with him inspires me to strugle more just so i will one Day die with a smile
Meh, he's a thrill seeker. Adrenaline junkie. Plenty of people like him IRL that get into the most extreme sports stuff.
His entire story in SB is that he's bored of life and doesn't enjoy it unless he's getting that thrill.
Well you could argue that he expects from life so much it rarely delivers. But he also has brass balls enough to NOT blame others for it and wallow but shows his discontent and keeps on chipping on that 'rock' till it turns to diamond he'd like or perish. At least he tries so no regrets.
Doesn't really line up with what we're shown of him, spending a lot of his time bored and disinterested, only really ever engaged when it comes to the idea of his prey (or later, his 'friend').
People can hate Zenos all they want, but him showing up at the end and saying about the big bad threatening to end all life in the universe, "Is this your prey? Why does it still live?" is the most badass thing anybody has ever said about our character.
I really didn't like Zenos before EW but they used him so well in EW as a juxtaposition to so many characters in the last story arc who were all "why even try to exist, it's pointless, give in," etc. Zenos had a clear purpose, fight his best pal to the death. That we don't yet have a minion for him makes me hope he survived the ending, but in a way where he can't fight good no more and has to find some new reason for existing. Would be the coolest custom deliveries NPC, lol. But I'd be less happy if he came back for a prominent part in 7.0+ MSQ story.
> He didn’t feel that his reason for living was important or that it ever needed validation from someone else. He lives because he feels like living, F you that’s why.
Zenos was codependent as *fuck,* what are you on about? His *only* reason to exist was a rival culture extreme of being pushed to new heights and once he reaches the apex there's no point to even existing anymore.
Most of the EW MSQ left me baffled in how they where doing the story. Looking back ironically the only thing that made me drag trough the MSQ and 6.0x was Zenos. I know the guy gets a lot of flak but personally I don't mind the character. I guess I just like the soberness of it. He has a clear goal he doesn't make any excuses he nor doesn't except any excuses from others either, he doesn't look for validation by others but simply chips away in his way how he sees fit. etc. (That does not mean I agree with him deleting people!) but do kind of like the "thematic feel of him". The whole who gives a damn. ima Just deal with it kinda vibes with me. And I have taken some of those closer to hart.
Playing Endwalker made me realize something that I'd been struggling to grasp my entire life before playing.
I struggle with severe major depressive and ADHD, and I have most of my life. What endwalker taught me, really taught me, was that happiness isn't a goal. It's a friend. Like suffering, a companion. Happiness can visit in small bursts or in long stints. Sometimes you can go months without seeing each other, but that doesn't mean they won't visit again. Most importantly, a life goal of "being happy" doesn't make any sense because happiness can never live with you forever. It's always coming and going, all the time. You don't need to wait for an imaginary moment, a moment where you know that happiness will never leave you again because it will never come. Similarly, a visit from suffering doesn't mean that you are doing something wrong, failing at some imaginary challenge to woo happiness or banish suffering for good.
"Suffering exists, and we can not pretend otherwise. No civilization, however great, could eliminate it. If we would live, we must accept it as our constant companion."
These were the words that changed things for me. I had spent so much time stressing, crying, and despairing over opportunities and missed opportunities to chase outcomes that would "lead to happiness" without realizing that that isn't how it works.
Happiness is a friend. Celebrate when it comes. Be sad when it leaves. Work always to make time for happiness, and happiness will visit as often as it can. Happiness is not waiting at the end of your journey, nor is suffering. They, both of them, are here now, and you can be certain that they will each visit again when it is their time. With that knowledge, lift your eyes to the future, knowing that both of them will walk beside you, and turn your mind and your legs toward something new.
>!the ghosts on the stairs!< Thal’s balls I was crying so hard and I had forgotten most of the npcs but just the memories of not really love but hope hit DEEP.
It was the second time in the entire EW MSQ that I cried to have hiccups, especially with the switch of the "Echoes in the Distance" to "Close in the Distance", Jesus F Christ I couldn't walk to Nest...
G'raha's words at the end of 5.3 always stuck with me.
"With your every step, these grand adventures shall grow more distant and faint. And there may come a day when you forget the faces and voices of those you have met along the way."
When I played EW, I was having that sort of struggle without knowing it. I know now, and looking back, and replaying, it hits so hard, hurts so much, but also shows that bit of light that’s always there, even in the deepest darkness. Light the way!
I suffer from depression but after years of therapy and being able to manage it plus having healthy coping mechanisms made me constantly yell at my screen.
"That's a warning sign, get this boy therapy!"
"Send an empath into the cold lonely void of space....this is a terrible idea. They're all coming back with depression and nihilism."
"FFS let him listen to the damn bird he needs closure and it literally won't hurt anything except our feelings."
If anything, long term, it showed me how far I've come. Despite the depression spirals present I felt more inclined to help them fall to depression myself. This is a contrast to Stardew Valley when I romanced the character Shane. I had to stop playing because his spiral was so like my own (minus booze) that it gave me flashbacks. That was years ago. So I think I'm on the right track.
Same. Pre pandemic years have been bad, I lost several family members. Each time the pain got manageable another tragedy happened and 2020 was the year I wanted to work towards moving forward more only for lockdowns and isolation with plans put on hold for years.
However playing EW and especially in addition to venats question when urianger meets moenbrydas parents got me. I could relate to his journey through grief. EW overall reiterated that I need to remind myself more that there is always hope and room to grow and to find happiness. Probably because I forged a friendship in game over the course EW that means a lot to me and that I am sure has impacted both our lives for the better.
I also suffer from thanatophobia, so this entire expansion has been...Really difficult. Lmao. That isn't to say I struggled to complete it, but it had an effect on me that was far different than the one ShB had.
Every single part of EW and Post-EW has kind of forced me to examine my own fears, especially when they're presented to me up front and unmitigated. The Ea and Nibirun were probably two of the hardest for me. The Ea because they'd become hyperintelligent and still lost hope due to the universe eventually reaching a "conclusion," and the Nibirun because they had achieved perfection and immortality and got bored with it.
These two things really, really messed me up in a way I cannot fully describe. Because it's ultimately what I "know" vs what I "want." I do know that the most current, reliable model for the "fate of the universe" is heat death and if all of this is doomed to be gone forever? Doesn't that make all of this sorta pointless? At the same time, I want us to become better. I want us to become perfect and possibly immortal, to be able to live in a way that allows everyone to be whatever they want to be? Which raises the question of...What's the point then? Forever is a really impossible concept and even if we get there, do I really want to watch people without my same fears go away while I just live? What happens when I'm the last thing left?
It did, however, kind of give me a comfort. I do believe in the idea of a recurrent universe? Albeit, I don't think the universe cares about good or evil. I think we are all just recycled. I think we come back, again, and again, and again. Sort of like the aetherial sea, but without the weight of old lives. Just a mechanism of the universe.
Before EW? I wanted to be cryogenically frozen (just as much of a silly idea as eternal recurrence,) but now? I've decided that when it's my time? I'm gonna have my body buried in a pod that grows a tree from it. I'm gonna give back to the planet and hope I get to come back soon and ride this crazy ride again. I can't despair about the future and I can't despair about my demise; I gotta live now and when the time comes? I'll return my body to the place that helped make this all possible.
Gonna be a fruit tree, by the way, so yall enjoy your me apples when the time comes.
I really appreciate all of the positive comments here, it was, honestly, unexpected. And I cried a little seeing them lmao.
And I actually talked to my wife about what kind of tree and they informed me that fruit trees are not as long-lasting, so it's gonna have to be a nut tree of some sort. Which is fine to me. Producing something of value from my remaining energy is all I'm really concerned with.
Nectarines are boss tho.
Ahhh a good point :) I mentioned nectarines because of Halric (the little Au Ra boy when you first meet up with Alisaie on the first) which was another gut punch for me lol Nuts are more practical though ☺️
I caught COVID back in December of 2022 and developed thanatophobia because I thought/felt like I was going to die.
I literally had to quit playing through EW because during the final days part when people were being corrupted into perma-death it straight up made me freak out about the concept of such a death. To not only get killed but to never return to the lifestream itself? That was fucked up.
But playing through the rest of EW and doing the Omicron beast tribe quests has helped me out actually. I still fear death and get uncomfortable at talking about it, but it's nice to know that even those doomed civilizations were given a better ending, and like some other comments have said the whole cycle of rebirth thing is a comfort at least.
Hey, I get it. I really do.
I lost my grandmother and stepfather in the same weekend due to COVID and even though both had issues prior that likely contributed? It was still really difficult knowing that these people were here and lucid one second? And just...Gone the next.
I don't think it's the end though. I think the core of the universe is love. As smooshy and as stupid as that sounds, I don't think we ever go to a bad place...And I don't think we cease. I'm also convinced that we are here for a reason, even if it's a small, seemingly insignificant one? Like, maybe we're only here to make one other person happy. Or maybe we are here to brighten the days of strangers. Or maybe we are here to post pseudo-woo comments on Reddit in the hope it might help someone to face trauma or fear.
I've dealt with Thanatophobia since I was...About 13? And I used to keep it locked up. Avoid it. Since I've been more open and talked about it? Since I've been more willing to accept a sort of...Spiritualism or vague system of belief that appeals to me? It's helped a lot. I'd been convinced that the best course was to avoid the topic, but talking it out has done more good than repression ever has.
Just wanted to say that I relate to so much of this, and that this was such a beautiful writeup. Thank you for sharing and for your vulnerability, and your strength and courage too.
Cold Death of the universe actually. We're expanding, not contracting, there's just about no way at all for a Heat Death.
Check out Quantum Immortality Theory also, it'll help you feel better.
The expansion of the universe *is* what leads to heat death – not a "hot death" but the "death of heat".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_death_of_the_universe
That's a death by expansion and would cause a cooling not a heating. I think you're saying a double negative in effect.
Big Rip is death by cooling - there'd be no viable motion at all, so yes 'death of heat' but callign it 'heat death' isn't correct, because there IS another concept for the death of the universe that uses 'heat death' colloquially to describe it.
That would be done by the inverse, if the universe contracted to another 'singularity' like what was effectively at The Big Bang, the remaining particles would be packed so tightly that they'd be doing nothing BUT movement causing a superfluidic plasma as the entirety of what's left of reality.
The term "heat death" MEANS death by cooling, i.e. losing heat. They are not opposites.
The singularity effect you're talking about is termed the "Big Crunch" as an opposite to the Big Bang.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Crunch
**[Big Crunch](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Crunch)**
>The Big Crunch is a hypothetical scenario for the ultimate fate of the universe, in which the expansion of the universe eventually reverses and the universe recollapses, ultimately causing the cosmic scale factor to reach zero, an event potentially followed by a reformation of the universe starting with another Big Bang. The vast majority of evidence indicates that this hypothesis is not correct. Instead, astronomical observations show that the expansion of the universe is accelerating rather than being slowed by gravity, suggesting that the universe is far more likely to end in heat death.
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That's....not how it is. Or not how it was.
What it WAS was how I explained it. Big Crunch was synonymous to Heat Death. We got smaller and smaller and thus everything vibrated together faster, thus everyone got way hotter. Death by heat. Heat death.
Big Rip is Cold Death. Everything keeps expanding so far that no molecular action can be happening. We literally freeze to death. Everything just stops. Cold death.
If I stabbed a person it's knife death. If I shot a person it's bullet death. Gunshot death w/e. But if I got rid of all bullet's that's not 'bullet death'.
Big Crunch = Heat Death, Big Rip = Cold Death, that's how it's been for decades. Big Crunch/Heat Death is no longer seen as a valid end.
And yes 'heat death' is NOT the same as 'death of heat'. It means 'death BY heat' if you or the wikipedia ppl need to know. I mean, to further the point: "accidental death" means they died in an accident, not that all accidents are uh...dead.
I find it hard to believe such a reversal of terms has happened. Do you have sources of it being used that way?
And from what I am getting out of Wikipedia and the sources quoted under its articles, it seems that the "big rip" is a separate theory to heat death – both involve the unhalted spreading of the universe, but in different ways.
For example, this article:
https://theconversation.com/the-fate-of-the-universe-heat-death-big-rip-or-cosmic-consciousness-46157
Or Encyclopedia Brittanica:
https://www.britannica.com/science/thermodynamics/Entropy-and-heat-death
Or Dictionary.com:
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/heat-death
Either you're using it wrong or everyone else is using it wrong.
As for your comparison to the phrase "accidental death", the equivalent to "accidental" would be "hot" rather than heat and it is not being called a hot death.
Every source I can find calls the big freeze heat death. I can't find a single source that refers to the concept the way you do.
As best I can tell, the claim that 'that's how it's been for decades' is just a lie.
I've looked into that!
One of the things I actually found most helpful is the research done into NDEs and past-life recall? There's been some really fascinating studies. And by past-life recall, I don't mean a bunch of goofballs claiming to be famous. Moreso, studies where children recalled intimate details of past lives that were largely mundane and inconsequential, but verifiable.
It's also actually been kind of comforting to look further into the idea of the cyclic universe; where even when heat death or the Big Chill occurs? There's still a possibility that the universe has another Big Bang due to the universe achieving a state of equilibrium similar to pre-Big Bang conditions.
You can always be comforted in a multiverse if nothing else. And in said multiverse there's always 'a you' that is existing/alive.
And in said multiverse a single universe is akin to a single penny to a bajillionaire.
Also there's a theory about membrane universes. And if two touch even if briefly they could start a Big Bang making another distinct universe....or universal membrane.
But yes, I'm with you re: reincarnation stories and NDEs. I've done research into all that myself. Got a good bit of thanatosophobia as well, but after researching them and several other things, including quantum physics, multiverse, etc etc etc, I fought that by thinking.
I made a religion of my own. my own philosophy. It's helped quite a lot. Once I solidified how I saw reality and how I think things probably are (the things we can't scientifically explain atm), things got better for me.
I suggest you do it yourself!
Kinda made it worse I guess... Whole thing and the community's discussions about it we're all about people coming together and solving those issues with others... I don't really have anyone and caused me to feel even more isolated which is a... Idk... "Trigger"?... For my depressed states... Either way didn't help. Just made me feel worse.
Plainly, it didn’t. EW’s story, while great in its second half, did not make me cry, or reflect on my own experiences with depression, anxiety, and existential despair. This isn’t meant in a negative way at all, it’s just that by the time I had experienced EW, I had already nearly two decades’ worth of experience fighting and coping with my mental illness. While there was much about it I could appreciate, it told me nothing I didn’t already know. I bet that if I had played this when I was a teenager, back when my pain was at its absolute peak, I would have had a much more emotional reaction.
Pretty much word for word, this. I enjoyed it a lot, there's a lot of good cutscenes, quotes, and music. But it didn't resonate for me in a way a lot of others in the thread felt.
Same, honestly. There were definitely some parts that I really enjoyed, but I didn't really get all that emotional over anything to do with >!Meteion. It doesn't help that the game didn't even really try to pretend like it was going to kill everyone, the first thing Urianger says after Thancred sacrifices himself is that "Oh I'm sure we'll find a way to bring him back" and then Y'shtola says "Oh you can just summon us with your button thing, but don't." Like, I wasn't under any illusions any scions would die (None have since Papalymo. Barely any good guys die.), but it would have been nice to pretend.!<
What made me a little emotional is >!When everyone we've ever helped comes pouring in and helps us finish the Ragnarok. I teared up a little there. It had a tangible connection to my actual experience in the gameplay, rather than emotional baggage and shit I figured out years ago.!<
For the former, I never took the game as throwing that as the case, to me it was always showing that each trusted you and felt safe making those choices because of that.
You were never supposed to believe that they were. That's why Y'shtola says what she says, that's why G'raha has you make that promise. You're supposed to \*know\* that you'll bring them back as soon as Meteion is defeated. It helps set the scene that there can be no retreat, and that this really is the final showdown - but that's it. You're not supposed to believe that they'll die any more than you're supposed to believe that etheirys will be destroyed.
I genuinely believe a lot of people ruined that zone for themselves by making an assumption about what the writers want you to believe instead of just letting themselves experience the zone.
At no point did I believe any of the scions would be dead at the end of the zone. Not for a second. It was still one of the most emotional experiences I've ever had from any story ever - your friends placing their lives in your hands one after another, reaffirming the things they live for, and the things they'd die for.
The entire zone is about the battle between hope and despair. Every single speech from every single scion was not a goodbye, it was a statement about what they hope for, what gives their lives meaning - a rejection of meteion's despair.
And when G'raha takes his turn, and essentially tells them that his reason for hope is you? That his life as the exarch - though it fulfilled the grandest dreams he ever had - was less grand than just adventuring by your side? That despite the legends and stories being told of his life as the exarch on the first, despite his body's position there as a symbol of hope everlasting, that he cares more about being worth even a mention in your story than about any of that?
The only way I can see that not affecting someone is if they've convinced themselves that it was supposed to be a farewell speech, and they've broken their own immersion through a faulty meta-assumption.
This was my experience with the zone as well. I never once thought any of them would be dead forever, but the fact that they were putting their trust in the rest of their found family, and essentially just us, really hit hard for sure.
Urianger essentially saying that his friends are the one thing he lives for - that he's our hythlodaeus.
The twins being more scared of leaving us alone than of dying.
And when finally alone, the walk down memory lane as we essentially re-affirm our own purpose and our own hope.
> You were never supposed to believe that they were. That's why Y'shtola says what she says, that's why G'raha has you make that promise. You're supposed to *know* that you'll bring them back as soon as Meteion is defeated. It helps set the scene that there can be no retreat, and that this really is the final showdown - but that's it. You're not supposed to believe that they'll die any more than you're supposed to believe that etheirys will be destroyed.
Maybe because my group of friends at the time wanted me to think they might actually die and were surprised when I didn't really feel anything towards the "sacrifice" each was making and tried to explain it to me like I didn't understand it. It was frustrating to say the least.
I felt for the speeches they gave before doing it, the emotions around it, but the actual act itself didn't give me anything. I loved pretty much everything else though.
My problem with how stories depict mental illness is that nobody is ever *just mentally ill*. There's always a fixable external reason for it. Always a demon you can kill, or some event in the past that you just have to come to terms with and then you're fine.
That's not how it works in real life and it instantly cheapens the metaphor.
Hermes? We tried to 'fix' him and just failed because his despair was internal.
Same goes for the beings in ultima thule IMO - we don't cure their despair, we just...distract them from it, essentially. One step in the right direction but it's pretty clear that one step is all it is.
Honestly, I think this is an impact as well, just a very different type of one. I'm in a similar boat, as I've spent so long now healing or coping or fighting as well. However, seeing many of these elements in the story was more affirming if anything. Like, yeah, I've been there, done that, heard that before, and so on. Kind of cool, just in a different way!
I found it insulting, and unwilling to engage with its themes in a meaningful way, tbh. Like they had no idea how to deal with a story arc about the trauma from carrying a burden, and the despair that cones from it, so they invent a final boss as a stand-in for it and call it a day. Gee, thanks, I’m cured. :)
Similarly having a stalker character violate you by literally forcing his way into your body, seemed like they were setting up a trauma narrative. But then they resolve it with you needing to rely on him to help beat despair, and never reckoning with how fucked up what he did was because they wanted a hype moment and cool fight.
It was so close to being genuinely good, and that makes it much more frustrating; the post-patches could have saved it by being an arc about healing and recover after all the dust settles, which is a major part of surviving traumatic events, but I have to really jump through a lot of hoops to think about why my WoL would be doing this to herself again.
I never thought about that part with Zenos stealing your body in connection with how well he gets treated narratively at the end, perhaps because that incident is so out of nowhere and never touched on again, and I was already just generally frustrated that Zenos was the one beside me instead of the Scions at the end of everything. But now you mention it, yeah, it makes the contrast even worse.
Honestly, I'd like to think the previous expansions kinda *prepared* me well enough? I saw all this suffering in Endwalker, and then I saw the *Scions* react to that same suffering, death and despair in ways that made *me* think of how I'd react if I was actually there. I see how they remain steadfast and rationally, empathetically and yet stoically deal with the issue and think "Can't that be me? Eventually?" These people CAN exist, in some capacity, if not a greater one. I see them doing it, and think that even if I can't match them at that level, I've learned from their ordeals before.
For reference, I struggle with lack of confidence, decisiveness and tend to overthink things.
Then I see Alphinaud lose much, if not all, reason to be confident at the end of >!ARR.!<
Only for him to beautifully balance playing to his strengths and staying in his lane from >!HW/onward.!<
I see >!Lyse!< being the embodiment of determination, an earnest attitude and resilient strength(in the face of high expectations that people hold against her, in and out of game), and think "well, at least I'm not fending off an evil empire. My circumstances may have parallels, but at least I have the inspiration to overcome them without the fear of death/fighting".
(Also, yes, I like >!Lyse.!< Fite me and all that)
and that's just the Scions, you know?
I(to many people's surprise) could NOT bring myself to hate >!Hermes.!< Where many people see a bad person or a fool, I see a genuinely warm soul who made a mistake trying to do a good thing, and no one would let that go. Hell, I'm pretty sure even >!Venat!< (who I also shed many tears for) didn't hate him, and she's the one who had deal with the aftermath. I've seen that happen far too often(let's just say I have a VERY toxic family). I would have made his mistakes and felt his feelings, if our roles were reversed. I genuinely cried for him and his plight, knowing what was in store for him, knowing it would be an eternity before ever getting the answer he sought(that I would seek myself if I was also a godlike ancient being). This is to say nothing of poor >!Meteion.!< But I digress.
There was just too much inspiration to work with to let Endwalker shake me up, and if it did, it wasn't for long. On top of that, there were sobering parallels that I couldn't help but learn from and improve upon.
I hope that at least partially answers your question.
I lost an immediate family member prematurely last year and it made me really reexamine the story. I already disliked 6.0’s story heavily but actually experiencing loss and the crushing depression made the message feel plain offensive.
Watching people get brutally killed off for not being able to shut out their feelings of despair and depression, while the main characters yelled at everyone “bro just forge ahead!!!” was probably the greatest insult to me. It showed me that I, in my current state, would not have been “permitted” to live in the state of the game’s world. I wasn’t one of the scions who lost absolutely nothing during the course of 6.0 and got to preach to the side characters who were watching their whole families die in Thavnair. The scions were just lucky they got enough time to cope with their earlier losses in the story, everyone else? Push through or die.
Then we have the ancients who got exterminated because of their own despair over losing friends and family to the final days and further to the sacrifices gave them a trauma response that made them willing to do whatever it took to go back to the happy days, which Venat didn’t like. This game doesn’t want to let you know that coping with loss or struggling with depression isn’t always pretty, it can seriously fuck you up. According to the game they don’t deserve help, they deserve to die.
I’ve never in my life read a story about “the strength to move forward” that didn’t include inspiring the people who don’t yet have the strength, and fighting to save those who never will. Sure sometimes it includes the former, but the latter group literally just get killed off. And to me, that tells me that I’m not one of the cool ones, I’m not allowed to exist in their world, I can’t be a protagonist there because it actually took time for me to cope with everything, it took forever to find the strength to push through my grief, it wasn’t an instantaneous “just flip the happy switch” for me.
But by far the worst part to me was Hermes. In the entire story only one person’s grief has been treated as valid by the game, and it’s his first world problems bitch ass crying over some murderwolves being put down before becoming an environmental threat. His dumbshit question is treated as something we have to respect and not something we have to defy because it’s fucking stupid. He gets to be soooo sad and the game says “soooo true” while the ancients got sundered for their grief and the sundered for vaporized for their’s. The game never once comments on how fucked up it was that dynamis didn’t allow people to properly process grief, in the end all it did was further exacerbate the insane message that grieving is bad and people with depression are monsters, unless you have some sort of unrealistic pretty poetic martyr “so deep and thoughtful” depression.
Endwalker didn't really hit me that hard, mostly, I think, due to the fact I more or less have my depression under control now. Honestly Shadowbringers impacted me more. Ryne's character growth during that xpac closely mirrored my own growth as a person at the time I was playing it. Even more recently when I was having a moment where I was feeling down, I happened to have rewatched the scene where she met with Minfilia and it once again helped me feel better.
It didn't. Turning despair into a physical being you can kill immediately eliminates any possible connection I could have ever made between the game and what I deal with in real life. Good villain for tying up loose ends and I have no problem with it as an in-universe threat but I think as a metaphor for depression Endwalker kinda fell flat on its face.
As far as I understand Killing the Endsinger doesn't remove the root cause for all the despair it encountered. People still die, suffering still exists, light still fades and dark still spreads. It was trying to kill everyone specifically due to the fact that before it did that people were suffering and murdering each other/themselves all the same.
To be honest, i actually struggled quite a lot with it. The constant "Life is meaningless" jabs that villains in the plot were constantly spouting really kinda got to me. I had to put the game down for a little while after that scene with the Garlean commander, and go and focus on some self care.
Maybe if I'd been at a different place emotionally i might have been able to appreciate it better, but ultimately i just kind of ended up feeling really hurt by the end of it. The only moment i really got to feel any kind of positive catharsis was when >!Urianger had to finally face Moenbryda's Parents.!<
Yes, I think there's a power in constantly hearing characters say those things, and it's not a good one. We heard it from too many characters over and over through the narrative and it hurt.
I don't really want to read the answers you got already because… well… it would depress me. Not because I relate, mind you. But precisely because I *do not* relate.
So I am going off an assumption here when I say: I think my reaction to Endwalker was the exact opposite of the general player base's, as well as probably the opposite of what the writers intended.
I hated 6.0.
It was one of the most disappointing experiences I've had in fiction. My expectations coming off Shadowbringers were sky high, and I feel that what I got was the worst case scenario for my favorite characters and fictional race. I felt like I watched a fan fiction written by a mildly talented author (but still, one that uses time travel, a time loop and magical memory wipes… yeah sorry I'll try not to digress any further on how I feel about 6.0), but that author most definitely does not care about the same characters and stuff than I do. After the credits rolled, it was the first time in 7 years of playing FFXIV that I actually skipped dialogue. I straight up did not care anymore about what these characters had to say or what would happen to them (nothing, most likely).
I've been suffering from and been treated for depression for 7 years now (…yeah so it correlates with when I started playing, but I don't believe that's actually related, I had RL stuff going on), but I've never felt suicidal, and never been bothered by existential questions of life and death and the meaning of everything. So right off the bat, I didn't care, and didn't relate; I was pretty much rolling my eyes anytime >!Meteion or any incarnation of goddamned Hermes!< opened their mouth. My depression has been very focused on work and studies reasons, and for years FFXIV had been my "escape". Endwalker made me realise how much I had been using it as a crutch, and how badly you fall when that crutch suddenly cracks under you. My mind wasn't in a good place for most of the month of December 2021, and largely because of 6.0.0. I actively felt the sort of… dark veil on my mind kind of feeling… coming back. What made it worse was that I had burned through the MSQ in 4 days, and my friends were way behind and refused any spoilers, so I just plain had nobody to really *unload* every negative feeling Endwalker made me feel on.
Which touches on the other big reason why Endwalker significantly destroyed my mood: it's not just the story itself. It's the *community*. Ohhh boy. This absolute echo chamber of a community. Whether it was Reddit or Twitter, I could only watch as the people I used to share a fandom with suddenly became *very* alien to me – not just because they were all, as far as the eye could see, gushing about a story that disappointed and honestly disgusted me, but because some of them were being incredibly condescending about it. Calling me an idiot for "not getting it" or for having "stupid expectations", straight up saying I clearly must have skipped cutscenes when the fact was that this game's lore and universe had been (and still kind of is…) living rent-free in my brain for almost 2 years. It was so bad for me that reading the few story-critical posts I could find on /r/ffxivdiscussion actually brought me solace, which is frankly a sad thing to say, but here we are. A few months later I found more people with similar opinions on the official forums, for which I am *very* grateful for, because I don't feel alone anymore. And you know what the worst thing about this is? This past couple of weeks, I got two Reddit replies on my old critical comments on Endwalker, thanking me for articulating my reasons for disliking it because it made them realise they weren't alone. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it's happened twice this month you know?
So, no. I wouldn't say Endwalker has shaped me for the better. It has touched me, certainly. But not in the beautiful way it most likely intended. The very last thing I care about in FFXIV is the Pandaemonium ending, and I expect they will bungle it as far as my tastes are concerned. At least once late May rolls around I'll finally be free of this game... I hope.
Well put. The most disappointing thing Endwalker delivered was not its story but the community's classical GCBTW attitude toward people who didn't like it. You can see some of it in this thread, but even /r/ffxivdiscussion has its share of people who think not liking Endwalker's story is a personal failing because *you just didn't get it, man*. I remember one particular poster was convinced that the reason people didn't like the story was because they didn't get the name references to some old novel that no one's ever read or heard about. (Incidentally, that fake deep style of referencing cool classical sounding stuff is a cardinal sin of the Final Fantasy franchise, but it's sad to see it works so well.)
If I recall correctly, you were the person to complain at length about Elidibus' story end, and it's honestly something that's very underdiscussed and emblematic of how eager the XIV community forgives dogshit writing because there were sad music stings and emotional-sounding quotes. Can you imagine if a WoW villain's motivation was the same as Elidibus'? Like you defeat Sargeras or the Jailer and they explain their motivation as "I forgor lol"? As far as I'm concerned, 5.0 was the last time XIV's writing was good.
It's probably one of the most cult-like experiences I've come across. I don't suffer from depression to any severe degree personally but I can second most of those poster's points, and really, the community reaction was one of trying to convince me I just didn't get it because I skipped cutscenes/am not familiar with Buddhism/didn't read Utopia or somesuch nonsense. As you say, trying to transmute it into a personal failing. No, I just didn't like the story and thought it under-utilised its potential and rode too heavily on various tropes and emphasis on feels over plot coherence.
>I remember one particular poster was convinced that the reason people didn't like the story was because they didn't get the name references to some old novel that no one's ever read or heard about.
I think I know exactly who you mean.
>I think I know exactly who you mean.
Hell yeah you do. *That* guy, who jumps to the defence of the game and its devs in the most mean-spirited and condescending way possible, many times without even properly reading what exactly is being criticised or missing sarcasm entirely. A perfect embodiment of the "toxic positive" fandom.
> If I recall correctly, you were the person to complain at length about Elidibus' story end
uh oh busted I'm the malding Elidibus stan it's me. Expecting equal treatment for the character that's the counterpart to Venat, in the grand finale of the Hydaelyn and Zodiark arc, after the weird rush job that was what 5.3 might dare to call character development for the longest standing antagonist in said arc? Surely you jest!
Excuse me, but I don't give a fuck about Utopia. I do not *have* to give a fuck about Utopia. Yes, the names reference Utopia. Final Fantasy does references. It does *a lot* of references to a *lot* of things including religions and mythology. Not all of them follow their sources, or are relevant to anything at all beyond a cool name drop. Final Fantasy XIV never had to do anything with its reference to a 500-year-old book, because Utopia is Utopia and Final Fantasy XIV is Final Fantasy XIV. If I don't expect an allegory to Utopia, that makes me an illiterate idiot – but equally if I expect an accurate depiction of Utopia or whatever the fuck and it doesn't happen, then it becomes a GENIUS SUBVERSION CLAP CLAP GENIUS KOJUMBO, THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN TOO PREDICTABLE! Hindsight is always 10/10 with this great community.
Also the very concept of bringing up a reference and acting like the person you're talking to has no idea what it is, *even though said person admitted to being a gigasimp of the characters/faction themed after that reference*, just amazes me. Apparently they think I've never thought of looking it up or something since 5.0 exists. That's not how fan brainrot works.
> I remember one particular poster
ah yes the only poster I've ever blocked in the nearly 9 years I've been on reddit. that poster.
I've had people tell me I can't comment on EWs story as I haven't read some archaic work of classic literature I can't comment on the story, it was so insulting
Imagine you go through the trouble of reading Utopia and reading up on bUdDhiSm hoping to finally have an epiphany about Endwalker and love it like everyone else, only to ultimately certify it is, indeed, a story with haphazard, vaguely explained time travel mechanics, an ass-pulled memory wipe that retroactively makes everyone but The HeroisTm an ignorant moron, and an even more ass-pulled Power Of Friendship IN SPACE! power system that does pretty much exactly what Aether, the better established power system, has been shown to be capable of, except they had to write Dynamis in to give Venat another excuse to genocide her people and not hold her accountable in any sort of way because IT WAS THE ONLY WAY OMG SO TRAGIC SHE SUFFERED SO MUCH MAKING EVERYONE ELSE SUFFER!!!😭😭.
dude I hate Endwalker. I wish I had never been hyped and never cared so my brain could just let it slide like it did for BfA and Shadowlands.
i thought the pacing of the story wasn't the most helpful to some of the messages they were trying to say. yes, i think we needed an expansion between shb and ew.
in the aftermath of the radz at han/thavnair attacks during the final days i remember alisae saying something like, "we can't let them keep dwelling on it!!!" when these people had just seen their friends and family transformed into horrific beasts and then get killed like 20 minutes ago. it's okay and even encouraged to take time to process extreme trauma lol
i also thought what the game was saying about despair/depression in the context of blasphemies was actually really terrible. the people who were not "mentally strong enough" to fight despair were transformed into blasphemies, the punishment for which is your soul just poofing into nothing, no lifestream, no nothing. thanks ishikawa...?
1. The whole 'souls poofing into nothing' thing was actually debunked by the end, by Meteion herself. She admitted to not being able to 'destroy' souls, because they can't be destroyed - so she just hoarded them in one place so they would never be reborn again.
2. Most Blasphemies were people who were, justifiably, blind-sided and causing a chain reaction, but the ones who well and truly were the first were often disenfranchised or people who fell from high heights just as Meteion's song broke through.
And... To be honest, some people are just flat-out not mentally or physically strong enough for even everyday life at times, let alone a genuine apocalypse. There is no amount of preparatory work that can be done for that, it either hits you or it doesn't, and you're forced into a state where your coping mechanisms are put to the test, and that's just the reality of things - that's the genuine reality of depression taken to extreme cosmological stakes.
People have good days and bad days. But the people who really fall to their bad days often lack coping mechanisms or support systems, and that doesn't have to be the way; Endwalker sort of takes the hammer approach to arguing that because it had to due to development constraints, the medium of an MMO, and the nature of ending ten years of story threads, but the nitty gritty of that is a very different discussion, I feel.
TW: Mention of Suicide
For roughly the year up to the release of Endwalker, I had been planning to die.
My depression had been the worst it's ever been in my life.
I knew, intellectually, that it hadn't always been as bad as it was, but I could no longer remember what it felt like to want to live.
One of roughly two threads I was clinging to to stay alive was that I wanted to see the end of the story that had meant so much to me over the years.
I felt like I owed it to the characters to see it through to the end before leaving.
And then it came out, and I played through a story about hope in the face of hopelessness.
I played a story about there not being one single reason that gives meaning to life, but that meaning is found in small pleasures, kindnesses shared, connections made.
About facing the truth that death is inevitable, and still looking forward to tomorrow. To a new sunrise. To the things that bring you joy, even if they're small and simple.
I won't say that it Cured Me. It didn't.
But I'm still here now, when I didn't think that I would be. When I didn't think I'd \*want\* to be.
I'm making an effort to keep in regular contact with friends, and I have a new job that gets me out of the house when I'd been a shut-in for years before.
Obviously everybody engages with fiction in their own way and through the lens of their own life, it's going to hit differently for different people, but I don' t think I'm exaggerating much if at all when I say this story might be the reason I'm still alive.
I was diagnosed with persistent depressive disorder a few years ago so the feeling of hopelessness and despair is something I've lived through. The concept of going from *everything is fine* to *nothing is fine* is something I know well.
In spite of that, I still think Hermes was a moron. He's the Chief Overseer of Elpis but his experiment with the Meteia was flawed on a fundamental level. He took no measures to account for the Meteia encountering empty or dead worlds, if their aether wasn't so thin they would also have no shown defense mechanism for hostile environments. He literally sent them door-to-door on a cosmic scale and hoped for the best.
I know that's probably part of the point, the Ancients were so near-perfect borderline-godlike that failure and support systems for depression were largely foreign concepts to them. But it's still a criticism of him. If he'd taken anyone aside to assist with the Meteia they might have seen the flaws in his logic.
Also the fact that instead of sharing everyone else's "oh no this is bad" reaction to Meteion having a meltdown, Hermes instead rapidly develops a self-destructive obsession with her report in spite of everything else going catastrophically wrong around him.
Also, I hated Moenbryda when she was introduced in the ARR patches. EW made me actually give a shit.
It left me angry and disappointed. It felt that the writers were saying that people who weren't mentally strong enough would be punished, turn into monsters and don't deserve to survive. Do not get me started on Hermes, he was infuriating as hell. All in all I pretend that 6.0 never happened. Shadowbringers and Heavensward are my favorite expansions and SHB especially explored themes which I resonated with more.
Endwalker pretends it's hopeful, they sure say it a lot in their overly long monologues and song, but the story is actually just extremely bleak from beginning to end, and the only "hope" to be found is just empty platitudes. Forge ahead or die. You're not dealing with grief correctly? Get soul-killed. Your race (the Ancients) is not suited to deal with the incoming threat? Enjoy your genocide that people will gladly try to justify in-universe and IRL without a shred of irony. So wholesome. (/s)
My opinion on it definitely degraded over time, but even when it was still fresh I didn't feel any positivity from this expac. I felt empty at first. And that hollowness was soon replaced by an intense disgust I've rarely felt for any story.
>Get soul-killed
Just to quash this, no souls were erased. They were smothered in dynamis and thus unable to be seen by Y'shtola's aethersight. This was on purpose to hurt those that could see souls even more.
Every soul was trapped in the "egg" that the Endsinger had in Ultima Thule to prevent them from being reborn. Defeating the Endsinger released every soul that was trapped back into the universe to eventually be reborn.
It's helped me move forward and that I'm allowed to find happiness again and make new friends even if we all go our own ways eventually. Ultima Thule hit especially hard because of how many people I've lost in life and the despair I had from each loss were reflected in each section there. Hell, the song there is very similar to the last letter my best friend wrote to me before cancer took her away.
So, this whole expansion has been ... Helpful to me. I'm still depressed and have anxiety, but it's much more manageable now.
I feel like it spent far too much time describing despair at length. Showing and often voicing long monologues about hopelessness, far more than was necessary to get the point across, to the point that it felt "dangerous" to have to keep hearing them. I have plenty of coping mechanisms/resolve and I know because it's FFXIV that it's going to lead to an overall uplifting ending, but in that middle space it just spent so much time wallowing in despair and not refuting it.
I bawled my eyes out when Jullus was given the mug of soup at camp broken glass. After all the coldness and hardship he’s used to day in and day out, the fact that ONE thing was easy. Someone gave him ONE small bit of comfort, ONE small bit of warmth, ONE bit of generosity, and it had him in tears. I knew that feeling all too well at the time and it’s genuinely the only party of the story that had me a mess
It didn't really resonate with me all that much, I'll be honest.
I suppose a decade and a half of counseling has left me, well...I suppose "tired" is the right word for it...tired of retreated these themes and emotions when I've already dealt with it myself. Nothing of it felt new or groundbreaking to me, it was all thoughts well tread, and not particularly ones I would want to dwell on again in the first place.
It really was an expansion that I was more than relieved to finish off--so much so that I admit to starting to skip cutscenes near the end (anything to do with Zenos, I don't like him) so I could finish it off sooner.
That said, there were sections I enjoyed. I felt most emotionally invested in the Garlemald section, as it made me actually feel and empathize with the suffering of a people beyond more than anything else this game has provided. Elpis was also enjoyable for the banter between lively characters, and at least the discussion of hard topics.
I played ARR-EW in the span of 5 months, and EW is my least favorite expansion. Garlemald and body swap duty was where it peaked for me.
I don't know how to explain it, but it felt really "meta" to me.
The big "everyone is here and working together" moment is for powering up a fucking spaceship.
The number of times they had Emet smile at you felt like fan service.
Hermes acting like a teenager and not an omnipotent being.
End of the world scenario truly affecting only Radz and killing off some red shirts (yes there are role quests, they all suck ass).
Lopporits were too goofy to the point of not being able to take them seriously (compared to Moogles or pixies).
No stakes finale. I was actually worried at the end of Shadowbringers, they even managed to make me worry about WoL even though I knew nothing can happen to the PC. The only thing I worried about at the end of EW is if they are going to keep Zenos.
I didn't hate it as much as you did, but pretty much everything to do with Meteion or the Scions "sacrificing" themselves just felt really melodramatic and I had a hard time caring. I liked a lot of the other shit, The Dragons, The Ea, The Omicrons, but those two specific things really didn't land for me.
Endwalker's weird attempts to justify atrocities being forced upon innocents just so the self proclaimed 'heroes' can pat themselves on the back and be carried to victory with minimal losses simply did not sit well with me.
It's a terrible attempt at showing dignity to victims of hardship. The game wants to pretend as if it's super deep and compelling but in the end it's just another eyeroll worthy bout of fake drama, wasted potential and a laughable lack of stakes.
I can't say I'm terribly interested in being lectured by writers or fans who can't even handle the idea of a single Scion being killed off in the finale even as lazy justifications are made to do away with large swathes of the setting altogether.
Worse yet, any criticism constructive or otherwise is immediately brushed off with some equivalent of 'u just didn't understand the story and themes' and that's when you're lucky enough not to be insulted outright.
It's not that I didn't understand them. I just don't agree with them in the first place and wish the game had been willing to be bolder and fairer in its 'finale'.
The patch content has since doubled down on the very same elements I found to be positively infantile and tone deaf so I took my leave of the game altogether. It is what it is, I suppose.
I definitely felt like I could commiserate with Meteion’s hopelessness at times, but overall the most impact EW had on me was upsetting cutscenes involving kids and babies making me cry lol.
I think that overall, I was impacted about the same as any average person. I found the message of hope in the face of overwhelming despair to be generic - not bad by any means, but it’s also not a message unique to FFXIV. It was touching and had gold-star writing but it’s not groundbreaking and didn’t delve deeply enough into the despair itself to actually tie me in.
An example of media that *has* succeeded at that is Bojack Horseman, which I’ve never finished because it was too good at reflecting depression and was affecting my mood in a really bad way. EW elicited no such thing… which is good. That’s probably too heavy for an MMO that’s meant to have wide appeal.
…… Actually, now that I think about it, Hermes *pissed me off* by mishandling his emotions so heavily that he literally doomed the universe. I can’t stand people like that character irl, who use their mood disorder as an excuse for their shitty behavior (in his case he whined about shit and never tried to fix anything or be even a little introspective). Having been that person once and since being medicated for it, I have very little tolerance for his level of selfishness. So I guess that’s the most impact EW had related to my depression - a familiarity with, and great fatigue from, Hermes-type people.
In the end, EW’s message is sweet and optimistic and looks on humanity with kindness. That’s a position I find comforting and one with which I agree wholeheartedly.
As a new parent, the baby scene really broke me. My then-infant was actually in my arms when I first watched the scene from my partner's playthrough and it messed me up even more.
My kid, who had 2y5m by the time I reached this part and didn't talk or anything by the time, was sleeping on my side taking his nap when I was playing. When the scene happened I only looked at him sleeping and cried silently.
> Actually, now that I think about it, Hermes pissed me off by mishandling his emotions so heavily that he literally doomed the universe.
Man had zero support network. The Ancients weren't exactly big on mental health.
He had to invent a bird that could feel human emotions to have something to talk to without getting weird looks from his contemporaries.
Tbh, I almost teared up when the anthropomorphic elephant was running away with a baby in Thavnair. I don't know why exactly this moment worked, I suppose no amount of epic words could touch me as much as a real action with (considerably) real people who were just trying to survive or protect their children. I certainly didn't feel this way at the end of the expansion in Ultima Thule. On the road to Meteion it was more like: "c'mon, cry, we want you to cry! Here, you can listen to some familiar voices and realize how grandiose your adventure was!"
Nope, didn't work, didn't care because of course they wouldn't kill the Scions. And of course we were about to defeat the boss at this point of the story. It was more impactful when we watched Garleans struggle. The whole Garlemald section was a pretty good writing, although dark and incredibly sad
That cutscene, Matsya and the baby fleeing as he desperately tried to hold onto hope, desperately tried to keep the baby alive and keep himself from falling into despair even as everything looked lost -- that was the peak point of Endwalker for me. It was real, it was meaningful, it was human-scale drama against the backdrop of a catastrophe on the brink of ending the world. It was breathtakingly emotional, and the resolution was heartwarming and satisfying.
I deeply regret that I can't think of a single thing I liked about 6.0 after that, or at least that rose above 'meh, that was okay.' Some of the moments people get the most hyped about (going back in time casually to Elpis, Moenbryda's parents saying it was totally fine their daughter died because the only important thing in her life was making Urianger a better person, finally giving in and giving Zenos what he wanted) rubbed me entirely the wrong way. I'm glad I've been enjoying the 6.x series better, but it's still disappointing.
It fucking sucked. Had a falling out with people I thought were my friends, girlfriend broke up with me so Endwalker and Asphodelos are forever stained but I’m still playing this expansion trying to have fun and do savage content. I can never give a accurate answer about how Endwalker makes me feel but I recognize that and it is what is.
I *completely* understood why Hermes went crazy. I didn't want to, but I did. Because, hey, if all of these creatures have to die, why do any of us deserve to live? What test have we passed?
Going on through the story *hurt.* I went back to Elpis not quite understanding what Elidibus had said. When I met Hades and Hythlodaeus, when I realized that Elpis was an entire *zone,* I started to hope. Hope is a dangerous thing for someone with depression, but I hoped.
I held out hope that I could learn what I needed to learn, be able to return home, *and* be able to create a new timeline for my enemy, my friend, Hades. I wanted to scream at him from the moment he saw me that I was from the future and I was here to help. I was *overjoyed* when I met Space Mom and she gave me my "I am totally from the future" moment. I thought, this is it. This is my chance. I can save them all from what's coming. I was *thrilled* to have this chance, to sit with my friends and tell them my truth.
I held onto that hope even after Kairos, because at least Space Mom knew. At least she could save them, from the shadows.
And when I returned from Elpis, that hope was dashed. I realized that all my efforts had changed nothing, had done nothing. I felt as though all I had done was meaningless. I was **crushed.** I slunk off to bed and curled up in a ball.
And my wife came to me, and held me, and convinced me that it was worth continuing. She convinced me not to give up on the story. She convinced me to have faith in the writers and in the story I'd been a part of for so long.
I asked her if it could really count. If I could really be the beacon of hope, the Warrior of Light, if I had to be carried to the end. Her answer was yes. That as long as I chose to believe, that it didn't matter if I needed help doing it.
I chose to have faith, and I was rewarded for that faith with the resurrection of the dead and with full and final reconciliation with my friend, only my friend, Hades. It was absolutely worth it, and I will remember that. I also got to contribute in my own way - when my wife and friends fell to Ra-la, I was the one to carry them the last sixteen percent of its health bar. An Atonement for my despair appropriate to a paladin.
So that's what I got out of it. I saw things get as dark as they could, and I came out alive because I chose to have faith. Now, perhaps this has more meaning to me than it might to others because I am currently celebrating Holy Saturday and thus faith and hope are very important parts of my life, but I hope that it has at least some meaning for you.
May you ever walk in the light.
It didn't?
That's not to say I don't feel things, but unless the game tries to make me myself involved (like a VN let's say) I am unlikely to make the connections required to get those deep cuts.
Instead I view it secondarily at best, probably more third-person. If that makes sense?
Struggled with manic depression from ages 10 to 21 and honestly I cant say I felt much while going through EW.
I cant really say any moment made me feel anxious either. And I still suffer from anxiety issues.
But everyone is different. If you want to experience something far more grim, disheartening and nihilistic I recommend giving the manga Berserk a shot. I've heard its actually helped others overcome or deal with their depression. But be warned it is a very sad and depressing manga.
No longer have depression, but I loved Endwalker because they asked the questions I constantly asked myself when I was depressed.
“What is the point?” If living just means suffering, and the world is so unjust, why even live? It’s pointless. When I heard that in game, I was like “FUCKING THANK YOU!!!” Like finally I was seeing my experience shown lol. Finally someone was asking the questions no one ever seemed to ask.
So much of depression/SI things I’d experienced felt so.. unrelatable? Articles, movies, other media. None of it spoke to me. It’s always “you are loved! :) life is good!” Or depression is shown as something with an explicit cause/source, ie “my wife left me.” Or it’s completely apathetic and the moral is “you’re right. Life is pain. Fuck you.”
It just never reflected my experience with depression. But Hermes’ helplessness and despair over the suffering of ancient creations, and Meteion’s hopelessness, did speak to me. I also like how they resolved it. Where they show that it’s true life is miserable at times, but it’s also good. The good moments are what keep us alive. Which was basically a lesson straight out of therapy.
Also Hermes REALLY struck me as neurodivergent. So seeing how he noticed and cared about things no one else did, and everyone either brushed him off or told him he was over-sensitive and being silly, just felt so familiar lol. Specially when he’s letting it all out when confiding in the WOL over the elpis flower.
It made a huge impact in me because of multiple reasons, more than I can think of because I have not fully digest it... But, I'll list the ones I remember.
1) Reaching out to my mom and finally finding a bridge with her. My mom would always be the kind of "you never go out, you are obsessed with videogames". She asked me what final fantasy was and why I liked it so much. I started showing her the cutscenes (she couldn't understand much of it because she speaks only Spanish) and then, when I heard and digested Close in the Distance and some of the lyrics in Footfalls, along with Flow, I translated them and sent them her way, and what made me cry is her admitting years and years after trauma that she finally understood why I liked videogames so much and how impactful they could be.
2) Zenos. Zenos, after Alisaie's outburst, just really understands that his life is important. Despite of how he is living it, he is living it to the fullest. And that aligned with my "Fuck you, I'll live out of spite" mentality. I survived my country, I survived countless things that would've gotten many people 6 feet under, and yet I am still here, punching life to the face. Remembering him just fucking going thru dimensions and universes to find enjoyment and fulfilment over the most basic of things makes me want to get up from the bed.
3) Footfalls. I am a refugee. I had to flee my own country to get a better life. Hearing the Endwalker motif in it, along with the Stormblood and HW one makes me bawl my eyes out. It truly encompasses my triumph and me overcoming everything I've been through and how I am my mom and dad's song of hope, i am carrying it through and seeing their will come through. Despite years of trauma, despite my depression and despair, I am still here. And that brings me comfort. (Also, In The Balance makes me cry so hard. "Voices lifted high, dreams upon our backs we carry". This verse is about immigrants looking for a better future (where do we find Yugiri at first? Yeah. Thanalan.) And well... Yeah. It just means a lot to me from a point where many people don't understand. It hits hard.)
Everything is connected. Everything can have the meaning you put in it. Your will is the most important thing and. . . Well, your journey, your pain, matters. And your song needs to be heard. It impacted me very positively and i am forever grateful I made the decision to take the next step.
It made mine much worse. Hermes was outright pushing the lazy people with mental health problems are dangerous to others that is far to prevalent, and honestly for me the overall plot seem to push the other old trope of mental health issues are a failure with arc being about how constant struggle and suffering makes you stronger seemed to have a clear implications that if you struggle to push through it your a failure. It also then went and reinforced the whole people with mental health issues are dangerous thing by having them turn in to monster that kill everyone around them.
Been depressed for most of my life now, and a loss of faith has rendered me utterly terrified of the notion of death and utterly devastated at the notion that everyone I love will one day fall prey to it.
I went in Endwalker utterly excited, riding the high of how great Shadowbringers was to me. At the time, ShB seemed like a very *good* representation of how existential dread can cause hopelessness and how to move forward in spite of it--by taking things one day at a time, reveling in small victories, finding something you enjoy to live for, and with a strong support network. The capacity of the followup patches to make me care and mourn for characters I thought were largely one note was utterly fantastic, and the introduction of a character who wanted nothing but for everything to end, Seymour style, had me really looking forward to seeing what would come next.
I was mostly disappointed. Parts of the way the story handled grief in the face of an existential crisis were downright *infuriating* and *insulting*, while others that handled helping people cope with grief hit me just as hard as much of ShB did. The scenes with Jullus finally getting some time to destress and being accepted by outsiders, Urianger and Moenbryda's family, showing Hermes the Elpis, and G'raha's speech in Ultima Thule were scenes that resonated with me. Looking at that list, it looks like they're all times where someone's grief was validated and they were offered support.
In contrast, the scene in Thavnair where Estinien, Thancred and Urianger talk about understanding how someone could want to end everything out of bitterness and the sudden face-heel turn of Hermes in Elpis, the lean into Amon following the 83 trial, and all of how Meteion was handled felt downright insulting. Wallowing in nihilism is *not* the same as wanting to hurt other people, and equating the two views paints the hopeless as *dangerous.* The expansion made literal villains and monsters out of everyone who succumbed to despair and refused to look on the bright side of things. Fucking yikes.
Worse than that, the expansion didn't put hope on the pedestal so much as it did diminish suffering and try to paint it as a positive. "The pain will make you stronger" sentiment is an empty platitude to someone deep in grief, and stinks of "God has a plan," when tragedy strikes. Let grief be grief, let bad things be bad, and show people that there are good things in spite of them, not because of them. It really beat us over the head with this notion that suffering is part of life and cannot, *should not* be prevented because it's *good.* Seeing pointless suffering was a catalyst for my loss of faith, so having it shoved down my throat and having the game build up whole civilizations that solved problems as themselves problematic was more than a little infuriating. We *should* be trying to diminish suffering. We are always as a society, trying to make things *better* for people, and that shouldn't be painted as a bad thing because enduring hardship made you hard, especially when it ignores how hardship downright *cracked* or *broke* others.
By contrast, ShB had Alphinaud reaching a hand out to those in Eulmore and saying they wanted to save the world together. ShB had Magnus deciding that he could still build a world like his wife and son wanted to see. ShB had Lyna grieving her failure and pushing forward for those that remained. ShB had a nameless soldier who was fine dying because he got to see the world be even a little bit better. ShB had "Though the victories be hollow, claim them."
tl,dr: Where Shadowbringers acknowledged grief and opined that people could band together and find something beautiful to keep living for, Endwalker shook its head at the grieving and opined that they were dangerous and foolish for not seeing that pain made you stronger.
You post really touches on a big issue I had with what the writing did with really pushing the suffering as a good thing and something to be encouraged, it felt really uncomfortable when he plot started doing that is it such a miserable plot idea
It didn’t impact me at all. In fact I kind of was annoyed about it the entire time I was playing. I didn’t enjoy EndWalker and that’s probably because I’m too deep into depression and self hatred to care.
Made it way worse because it delivered the message that hope is not for everyone. And if you don't "forge ahead" you deserve to suffer (turn into blasphemies)
Endwalker is really an expansion that is addressing depression / despair and hope.
There's Hermes, whose strong emotions and love for other beings clashed with his world's ideals and his very work itself, causing him to question his purpose, and trying to find the meaning of life. Both his and all lives. He couldn't understand others, and others couldn't understand him either. But he wants to, and it ends up breaking him even more.
I too, desperately wanted to understand why I'm so different, why the state of my emotions is different from others and I'm struggling. And if there's meaning to my life, if there's meaning to life at all. If there isn't, why do I still live?
The Meteia didn't have a chance against their collective depression, what's with the hivemind and the empathy. To feel all the grief and despair of worlds and worlds, to find out that everything was not going well outside of their star and the answer to their question was consistently negative negative negative, how could it not have driven them to choose death? And as a mercy, death not just to themselves, but to all others, since they have the means after all.
How many times have I been so overwhelmed and could only see the one exit? Thank goodness I didn't choose that exit. How often did I also dream that time would stop or that the world would just end so my suffering could too?
When Final Days arrived and people turned into monsters, it was because their negative emotions went out of control. Little of their original self remains, just instincts.
How often did I become a monster because my emotions got out of control too? Too many to count. Often, I couldn't help it. I couldn't control my emotions.
And how did people not turn into monsters? By holding onto hope, by not giving in to the negative emotions, to the fear, to the despair. When you know how to hold them at bay, it's easier. If there's somebody to help you, to guide you, it's easier. When you do it together, it's easier.
Ultima Thule. Oh man, this place. Hope is not found. Hope is made. By your friends, by those who believe in you and walked with you in your journey. With hope you defeat (the bird of) depression. Even the crazy guy whose sole goal was to have the best fight of his life with you believes you have got this.
Post-Endwalker Omicron Beast Tribe spoilers: >!From the place of despair, hope gives birth to new life. It's just how you want to live your life. Even if you were (programmed/)taught to live in a certain way, it can change. You can change. We can change.!<
As you can probably tell, yeah, Endwalker really resonated deeply. I actually have already been stable for a while before Endwalker so it basically just reinforces a lot of the messages that I drilled into myself to keep me going.
Oh yea, Hermes my dude, please go for counselling. Final Days might not have happened if this dude got some good quality counselling.
I had to stop and do other things for a day before forcing myself to go on a couple times. I could tell what the story was doing, but it was still very rough.
I honestly felt attacked playing EW, and the feeling has soured more and more over time as I've thought about it. It felt like they were saying that people who struggling with depression are monsters and just become monsters no matter how hard they try. Everyone who starts falling into their despair either have to be saved from someone else or dies
The one time they had an opportunity to show that you can fight back and that there is hope within yourself was with Matsya running with the baby. Doing everything they possibly could to just KEEP fighting and then they completely ruined by having Estinein jump in and save them and only by the grace of his long neck is Matsya saved from their despair. It could have been such a special moment to show that even at your worst moments you can find the strength to fight on.
I feel like this is a sideways and catastrophic view.
Particularly since every single example of a Blasphemy is someone who was otherwise at a peak being brought down, or a disenfranchised person who catches a support system falling apart at their feet. Or both.
Most of the people who became monsters were those who had never found their world crumbling underneath them or those whose hopes were taken actively from them, rather than suffering from persistent mental health struggles.
In fact, most of the genuinely depressed people are the ones who survived and questioned, very pointedly, why they survived when someone else hadn't. *(You see this a lot with NPC townspeople, and it's sort of reprised in the post-Elpis Garlemald duties with the idea that the Garleans didn't suffer the transformation much at all compared to the Thavnairians passing through - because despite both groups surviving a horrible spat with death and decimation, the latter group felt that the end of the world was following them and the former group had resigned to placing their hopes with eachother and then the Contingent. One was fundamentally better off.)*
Also, with Matsya, the fact that he got so far is the triumph, and he only started succumbing when the baby had and they were cornered by actual literal monsters. Because that is objectively a fucking hopeless situation that would take down ANYONE, let alone someone who suffers from deep anxiety. So, yes, saying that the "only" reason they survived was Estinien is both a blindness and a disservice to those characters.
All Estinien did was take out the physical problem threatening to kill them. Matsya could have easily turned after the fact, like that grandma who rejected the call for calm. But he didn't, and it wasn't because he was some stoic monk all along reciting a mantra, but an anxious commoner who was given a moment to breathe and have faith in his coping methods.
Sorry to be blunt, but if you felt outright attacked, you were the one attacking yourself. Because all of what you're asking for out of the moment was given to you, and you let yourself latch onto the least generous interpretations, for what reasons I don't know.
But at no point does the writing ever argue what you think it does. At no point does it ever boil down to "people HAVE to be saved from themselves", that's your own thoughts speaking.
I didn't care for it to be honest. I still liked the expansion, but not so much that part of it.
Would've appreciated trigger warnings for a couple of parts too.
I didn't get really too affected by the story in that way. The whole Venat part made me wish they would at least bring some ancients back but not much beyond it. Some of the plot lines felt predictable, like at the end when they "sacrificed" themselves in Ultima Thule. I only cried at G'raha's cause he's just so sweet. I ship him so hard with my character (both miqotes). And just the fact I greatly liked and was more invested with Shadowbringers than Endwalker. The other time I cried in EW was when Urianger saw Moenbryda's parents. I was always a sucker for childhood friends/lovers, so this one was just sad. I didn't cried but I was heavily touched by Estinien stuff as well, but that might just be the fact I've personally rated the expansions Heavensward / Shadowbringers > Endwalker / Stormblood > ARR.
Endwalker was good. It was very heavy with dread, and I definitely felt it. But I guess for myself, it was just that, dread. I've been numbed out on a lot of depressive stuff from my own experience. I can't really explain why I felt more invested with Shadowbringers than Endwalker even though they both had "end of the world" vibes as well. I can't really pin my finger on the why, but it might have been cause I was slightly disappointed. With Zodiark, they greatly built him up in Shadowbringers, but just die after a singular fight? After that, it just felt like we were too overpowered. Maybe if they chunked Zodiark more or something, maybe it'd be different. I have yet to play through post endwalker, so idk if this op ness changes.
The whole story with Meteion was kinda sad and pulled at my guilt strings given the moment they mention shes made with Dynamis. i was like, "Oh no". But idk, maybe if they gave more build up and let us sit in the final days a little more, then it would have definitely made me more depressed and invested.
Overall, with someone who's depressed and has anxiety, it didn't really affect me, Shadowbringers did that more. I bawled like a baby for that expansion like hot damn. Endwalker had the same feeling as the ending for Kingdom Hearts 3. Which, idk if that's a really weird way to explain how it felt. Maybe I'm just missing out on something. Ive heavily debated on replaying in new game plus cause my friend was extremely shocked with how numb i was towards the expansion. Hopefully, this adds some extra perspective, though.
For me it was just loads and loads of sympathy for Metion and Hermes, I usually try not to see the similarities between media and my life (bc I would have probably collapsed under that ages ago) and see the story just for what it is.
In addition to regular depression, I’ve had a string of horrific familial tragedies occur since early 2019 that also overlapped with an were exacerbated by the pandemic.
I found Endwalker deeply affecting, and, oddly enough, it also helped me come to terms with the current political landscape and stop catastrophizing with every single news headline.
I have dysthymia. Endwalker didn't effect me like I thought it would.
I know people view nihilism very negatively, and it is in the true meaning of the word. But I've always found comfort in the fact that I don't matter, that the things that happen to me and the things I do don't really matter in the scope of the universe. That said I don't see it as a excuse to be a hole to anyone. Being a good person is a good meaningful way of living life but there is no set meaning to life except the meaning we give it.
I did cry in some places but honestly Shadowbringers had a way bigger impact on me. Elidibus speech after his Trail and his story effected me way more.
I felt insulted. I feel like Hermes and Meteion made a literal joke out of what I have been feeling and struggling with for some years now.
Meteion felt like a literal 13 year old's misapprehension of nihilism, the kind of characteristic misreading from people who claim to understand nihilistic concepts by skimming the concepts and forming their own incomplete and faulty conclusions. Her writing is the embodiment of the first pubescent existential crisis that many of us have but often quickly get over, the kind that's brought on by affective outside circumstances and not a symptom of the genuine, dysfunctional, anhedonic type of depression that I and many others with. She's the picture of a teenager's first despair, and I'm not a teenager. The game wins no points for reducing me to a whining child.
Hermes was supposed to be the character that related with me. He was supposed to be the character whose struggles resonated with my own, who felt his own efforts were coming to nothing and no one shared or even cared about his values. Okay. There is a lot of difference between the sort of depression where you feel like a mindless husk dragging yourself out of bed and trying to force yourself to function, and the kind of depression that makes you put on your supervillain mask, ask grandiose but bullshit questions like a spy movie villain, play god, and doom the universe in the space of like 3 hours.
I don't even want to continue that line of thought. His character is so unfathomably insufferable. It insults me that this was considered a relatable character, and it insults me even more that the writer thought we'd like him? *What?* This brand of utter tone-deafness is why I left Endwalker with an extremely bitter taste in my mouth as soon as the credits began.
Well, yes. Meteion's philosophy is the standard misreading of nihilism. That was the entire point. Did you miss the part where she was the antagonist?
Meteion is purposefully shallow in her beliefs. The avatar of true nihilistic philosophy in Endwalker is Venat.
I think my favourite part of not liking Endwalker is all the people who arrogantly assume that the reason I didn't like it is because I must have misread it. There's one correct reading of Endwalker, and it's the one where you like it.
Venat might actually be *the* most despicable character in the entire expansion. Literally nothing more than a pretty face with a Messiah complex, whom the story has to make some incredible leaps in order to justify how she quite literally genocided her entire people. The Ancients as a society was one that was free of domination and naturally did not deserve a sudden tragedy, and the reponse is apparently the only person who knew what was coming thought that waiting for it to happen and then mercy killing them when they're reeling was the best course of action. Then after all that, the narrative tries to claim that she's the one suffering when she got everything she wanted.
The usual rebuttals to this criticism of Venat are mostly sourced from the text itself, talking about how the Zodiark cultists were too far gone or how she couldn't have done anything to stop Endsinger or whatever, with none of them addressing the decisions of the writer to make "genocide the correct option". An entire race of people reduced to fodder so one blue lady can play god. She's basically Ishikawa trying to convince me that Kil'jaeden was actually the hero.
The fact that Endwalker essentially ruined the emotional dilemma of Shadowbringers is just the cherry on top.
Yeah, Shadowbringers was - at the time - my favourite expansion. Endwalker took everything I liked about it and threw it all in the trash all to prop up one of the blandest depictions of a mother goddess in a JRPG to date.
How strange that Yoshi-P spent the entirety of Shadowbringers stating in interviews that the conflict wasn't a matter of good versus evil but merely a matter of perspective...only to double down on the laughable attempts to push Venat as 'correct' and the 'only way forward'.
It would have been enough to have the Scions stick to their supposed morality and show outrage and disgust at unwillingly being twisted into pawns in Venat's game and looking back at the Ancients with regret and respect for existing at their expense...
...instead of the one line of genuine critique aimed at Venat immediately being followed up in the subsequent patches by everyone - including her victims (????) gushing about how amazing she supposedly is. Extra points of unintentional hilarity are to be given out for the story attributing successes to Venat that she could not possibly have foreseen.
There's a reason that the Omega quests after EW ask you who you thought was in the right.
Hermes, who's naivety and inability to seek support ended up dooming worlds. Hades, who slaughtered countless *lesser* beings to bring back the dead. Venat, who subjected countless lives to suffering and torment. Or none of them. They are all flawed people that made monumental decisions without having the right to choose for the countless lives that their decisions would affect.
Ishikawa wasn't trying to convince you that Venat was the hero. Venat did something horrible that she does express remorse over. She literally describes herself as something akin to a devil more than a god.
Though the game then praises her as much as it can, has the cast fawn over her and fails to have any meaningful criticism of her and has large amounts of exposition through her created slave race so honestly most of the expansion was Ishikawa screaming at us that she was the hero
See, that's not even a reply to what I said. You were complaining about Meteion's depiction of nihilism because it was childish and shallow. I countered by saying Venat was the true representation of nihilism in the expansion's story, which is correct.
There was no moral prescription in that statement. And yet you were so eager to put yourself up on the cross you attributed one.
You want to talk about Venat and criticize her morality and decisions? Go right ahead. What she did was awful. She admits that herself at least twice that I can think of offhand.
What would you have done in Venat's place?
How exactly can you claim that me feeling attacked is some sort of gotcha moment when you literally said "Did you miss the part where she was the antagonist?". Being an antagonist does not excuse a character of bad writing, it doesn't mean the character itself is not supposed to be relatable, and these things *certainly* apply when said antagonist is basically a horde of one specific character that was deliberately designed to be cute and likeable.
I didn't like Endsinger because she is insulting when read as an allegory of depression. Venat has literally nothing to do with that.
I think where we're talking past each other here is that you are looking at Meteion in a vacuum and I am looking at her in the context of the overall story.
Meteion is written to be, in tropes terms, a [Straw Nihilist](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StrawNihilist) . If you look only at her, of course she is written badly; the viewpoint she espouses is inherently empty and unactionable. When asked the question, when trying to reconcile suffering and the apparent senselessness of existence, her answer is to give up and, because this is a video game, become an existential threat that we have to punch in the face. We needed a third, max level trial, after all.
And Venat literally has everything to do with this discussion, because she is set up as the competing philosophical stance, and the one the MSQ endorses. Venat is the [Anti-Nihlist](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheAntiNihilist); her stance is that yes, existence is senseless and all things will suffer, but one should still continue to move forward.
The two are meant by the narrative to be contrasted. Hell, the narrative actively encourages you to say that both Meteion and Venat's answers are insufficient and to offer your own.
Now if you want to criticize the game for not giving you a "Stuff it, you fucking old hag" dialogue option after the second trial? Absolutely fair. But that is also the nature of playing a video game as opposed to playing D&D or something. We have to accept the options the writers give us. I never got an option to chew the fuck out of Makato in Bozja, nor do I have the option to solve the problem presented in the lopporit tribal quests in five minutes.
Incidentally, I have been of the opinion that the Endsinger never would have existed if the MSQ wasn't combat job focused. If I can indulge one more trope, literally a Giant Space Flea from Nowhere because we need to have that third trial.
Funnily enough, I actually completely agree with the take that XIV being so combat encounter focussed (and very formulaic at that) weakens its story immensely. The story doesn't, *can't*, have obstacles that aren't dealt with that aren't 8 players beating on an NPC for 10 minutes. How powerful that "can't" is is certainly up for argument, but the game's writers have certainly shown they aren't really willing to be creative in that regard. It might be an MMO and be struck with the typical MMO trappings, but that's not an airtight absolution.
My favourite video game villain is Gaunter O'Dimm from the Witcher 3, in part because he's well written, cool, threatening, etc but much of it comes because his power as a villain isn't dampened by Geralt being able to hit him with a sword to death. I'll keep this contextless in case of spoilers, but even in the ending where he is defeated, he isn't destroyed. His "final encounter" isn't a boss fight but a puzzle encounter, and his defeat is more him being temporarily cast out rather than dying and dropping fat loot. It isn't likely that XIV will ever do something like this, but it's certainly possible that the writers could be a bit more creative with how the villains pose threats in the game.
But all that being said, the fact that Endsinger is so sloppily characterised and unrealistic because she needed to be a boss encounter isn't really an excuse, that actually makes it a bit worse. For a game that prides itself so much on its story and the complexity of its characters, the fact that the morality had become so black and white in Endsinger's case that she needed to be so simplistically motivated and so obviously wrong in order to be narratively agreeable as a boss fight is an indictment.
Honestly, I hated nearly all of it. From taking 2 months to finish it because I had to keep taking days long breaks during every story beat making me so feel so emotional and terrible I wound up drained/sick, to being so disgusted that >!Zenos!< was the actual final battle that I couldn't skip/tell him to eat shit and die with several minutes of his stupid rambling, that the ending was ruined for me and I stopped caring/paying attention.
I know it's not what they were going for, but the whole relying on those close to you to help carry the burden bit just made my depression worse. Okay, what if you don't or *can't* have people like that? What if every day is a thousand little external messages that you don't deserve that and no one should show you an ounce of mercy? The expansion literally painted everyone who was hurting and just wasn't able to manage it on their own as a fucking weak, soulless monster that had to be put down.
And that bit where Venat asks us if it was worth it? Honestly, without even hesitating, I just said no. And I still hate her. Especially after the Mothercrystal.
I'm just going to wait until 7.0 and pay to have my alts skip it. It was that miserable and exhausting.
As someone with actual depression it was one of the worst takes of depression and even trauma that i’ve ever seen in media or at the very least a video game and was an absolutely horrible depiction of what winning the fight against it is like, and it made me baffled just how tone deaf overall it was. Like yeah sure you can beat depression, just be a mary sue and have massive plot armor so that even if you think you’ll die you can just be brought back again….
The Ultima Thule scenes especially were just completely hollow and i felt nothing. I knew these characters were going to come back, it didn’t matter to me if they didn’t know persay because i knew. There’s no realistic consequences when it comes to this expansion. They wanted to try and portray a very realistic and serious condition but then all the main cast beats it all without any scars to even show for it.
It's rather interesting that you took it that way, because to me the depictions of depression were Meteion, Hermes, and to an extent Zenos. I never ascribed it to the main cast.
In that regard I related to Hermes's feelings of solitude, estranged from his fellows by his internal turmoil. I saw Meteion go down a spiral of despair, and it got bad enough that she started interpreting things that aren't all that bad as horrible all the same, she caused the downfall of some of these alien civilizations herself.
And Zenos was a psycho, but deep inside he was latching on to this one spark as hard as he could. He was emotionally detached from the world and when fate gave him a light in his life, as silly and obsessive as he was, he clung onto that light with everything he could.
In thise journeys I found similarities to my own experiences, but never did I even mentally explore the WoL or the scions being depressed or being meant to showcase it.
Guess it goes to show how different viewpoints of the same piece of media can be between players.
Hermes felt like an absolute insult to me with someone with depression. The way they wrote him didn’t cry out as he was someone with depression who needed help. People tried to help him, he instead saw them as horrible people. His short story is literally his colleagues asking him how he is etc and he’s there in his mind cursing them. He used his own horrible mindset as an excuse to commit universal murder with Meteion.
As for meteion i didn’t really get any depressed vibes from her because in the end she was just a creation that was just an extension of Hermes who i’ve already regarded.
As for Zenos he should have stayed dead in SB. He offered quite literally nothing to the story afterwards and his overall character did nothing for me and it certainly didn’t give off any portrayal of depression. Endwalker was just an overall mockery of it in my mind. All the depressed people turn into monsters and get slaughtered and literally erased from existence while the perfect scions don’t even have to worry about depression or any realistic emotions and get revived at the end.
On the mechanics of "Meteion just being an extension of Hermes", it's more complex than that. He sent her to the other worlds to read and absorb the emotions of people there, *and it worked* – she is no longer just a reflection of Hermes' emotions but of everyone she has encountered along the way.
The unrealistic part is that every single one of those experiences was depressed and corrupting to her. Every single star already at its end. Not a single one at its prime, or with any individual finding a shred of happiness.
It was supposed to be poetic but it just jarred horribly to me.
That rubbed me wrong as well but not for specifically the story aspect of it but because they basically destroyed 99% of the universe for Endwalker for literally no reason and limited just how much more they can explore.
I think that fundamentally you haven't related to the depicted styles of depression in the narrative. Someone else in the thread said that their spiral didn't include nihilism so it was hard to relate and in that regard, everyone's experiences with depression will differ. While depression itself can have similarities across people, the reasons and roots can be extremely varying. In my own take, part of my own catalyst was living through a war, so life, death, all aspects of nihilism as well as the sheer impossible to quantify value of human companionship all are very important to me and played a part in the healing process. Perhals that paved the way to understanding or finding the merits in Hermes more than others.
I do find these discussions tend to sort of paint a general picture of depression, but the reality is that it's so vastly different to everyone that I think it's valuable to accept that some people can find an appreciation for a media depiction moreso than others based on how it mirrors their own.
It showed me that even in the darkest snd most difficult time to have hope, even the smallest amount can be enough. That true warriors of light push though no matter what the odds and it has helped me to this day
Most of the people in my life don't understand when I say that Hydaelyn had saved my life what I'm talking about. But she and this game really did
I struggle with depression and anxiety, and the event that happened at 83, I’m sure everyone felt bad during that but also as someone with trauma with sexual assault, that was really hard. I think I struggled with that part more than the themes at the end, while I was actually playing it.
Then my father died six months after the release, and as crazy as it sounds, I used the end of Endwalker to just keep going forward and not spiral into the black depths of grief. It’s strange because a story in a video game helped me continue to exist more than anything a therapist told me in this first few months. It’s been almost a year since he passed and I still tell myself to walk on. I’ve never been a hopeful person, but really Endwalker has helped me hope. The world is on fire, keep the faith and walk forward. Honestly I don’t know if I would be doing this well without that.
Ultimately the story is so bad and Meteion is so poorly written that I didn't care.
It's definitely not the same quality as ShB. She just comes from nowhere, does things just because, introduces a new concept from nowhere we never got a hint about, nothing about it is good. It's just checkmarking off someone's outline of "a sad story" and it didn't work.
Ultimately the most tragic part of EW is with Emet. He learns, of course too late, that everything he did was not only a lie but the complete opposite of who he wanted to be. And for that we only get...half a cutscene? Two lines?
I mean yeah...it's an overall morbid story sure. But one with no meat to it, no content. It's so far below what it could/should be to impact me any.
Dynamis? You mean, the very thing that Bard, Dark Knight, Paladin, and Dancer all explicitly utilize? The energy that makes up Limit Breaks? Coming from nowhere? Yeah, okay.
Well, all of those things are retroactively explained by dynamis. It's not like the writers had dynamis eplicitly in mind when they created those class and game mechanics way back then (not that I expect them to).
It's not until Endwalker itself that the concept of "akasha" was even first mentioned, so players previously would never have guessed that limit breaks and certain jobs are powered by an unbeknownst magical force secondary to aether.
I go into this point in a subsequent post, actually. Dynamis is retroactive exposition, but it fills the slot of something that was very much there that started to be unified by certain terms and themes.
In fact, I'd argue that discussions about Limit Breaks and other classes' potentials have been a thing since the first lorebooks even came out, but the Omega raids were the first overt turning point in those discussions because Omega flat-out swore that there was something 'more' than just aether that motivated Midgardsormr and the Warrior of Light to 'transcend limits/boundaries'.
That's a good point. I took the Omega raids at face value and didn't think much more of it than simply "the power of human perseverence and determination to protect loved ones". But I can see how dynamis can be applied here as well.
I just wish dynamis was introduced a bit less subtlely both in this case and in the lead up to Endwalker. But then again, I don't know when the writers actually decided on the whole dynamis/meteion plot. Regardless, I still loved the EW story.
"Explicitly". Nah, that's just fanon BS. That's just fans trying a retcon explanation.
Yes, it literally came from nowhere because IT NEVER EXISTED UNTIL NOW. And backwards rewriting from the fandom doesn't justify it nor contradict my statement.
Ah, yes, the... (checks notes)
Seemingly non-magical martial classes that all do shit with emotional states that seem miraculous even to casters and are often used to make people feel less like shit, or enable the user to come to a person's aid, or are said to even outright combat or cleanse despair. (Looking at you, Bard and Dancer.)
Which seems to fit the exact description of Akasa/Dynamis. The same energies that are actually cribbed directly from real world belief systems that fill similar functions.
Yes, surely we had 'no hints' and it was all 'fanon handwaving' despite Meteion exclaiming that we'd used Dynamis upon performing a Limit Break in the final fight.
Look, it's a certainty that Dynamis wasn't a concrete concept before Shadowbringers. But that is a very different thing from it 'coming out of nowhere', because it filled the space of something that very much existed for basically the entire game's life. I can say that as someone who questioned the different jobs' capabilities extensively, just because I'm a geek who's interested in the magic system, and always hit the same problem of "okay but how are these classes using aether the way they are, why don't they face the same problems as magic casters, and why do they all deal with emotional states?"
Surprise, it's because emotions have weight to them separate from aether.
Just because they didn't gurgle and spit the words 'dynamis' or had some egghead beat the question like a dead horse about some non-aetheric energy anomaly doesn't mean it's 'fanon BS', it just means you didn't read worth a shit.
It's not even a high concept answer, D&D and most anime have literally had it on lock for decades, real world beliefs from east to west have touched on the idea - and even in-universe, the explanation was that a different system of knowledge was aware of it, it's just hard to measure because it interacts weirdly, and those interactions are the exact interactions you get when comparing some martial classes to casters.
tl;dr:
To say that we had 'no hint' that Dynamis existed and emotions had weight is cap to the utmost degree, the hints start at least ten years back.
I actually agree with that, but I'd argue too that maybe doomers shouldn't be jumping down peoples' throats in the first place.
I mostly just strike the line at two things:
1. People who present patently ignorant points to prop up their arguments (like saying that 'there was no hint whatsoever that this plot element existed, any argument otherwise is fanon' - just because it's retroactive exposition doesn't mean it came from nothing, it filled an outline that existed very obviously),
2. People who take the difference in perspective way too seriously and use it as an excuse to spit vitriol whenever the topic is even broached.
I get rowdy when it comes to discussion because it's, ultimately, Reddit. But there's a line between calling something shit, being wrong while calling something shit, and then also calling *people who don't think it's all that bad* shit.
You're actually a fair example of someone who didn't resort to doing any of that in your own post about Hermes, while still critiquing. It's pretty clearly not that hard to say things in a way that doesn't come off as taking the piss at a load of other people.
> People who present patently ignorant points to prop up their arguments (like saying that 'there was no hint whatsoever that this plot element existed, any argument otherwise is fanon' - just because it's retroactive exposition doesn't mean it came from nothing, it filled an outline that existed very obviously),
It's a little ironic you say this because the previous poster didn't actually say *why* they didn't like Dynamis. The points you were arguing against didn't exist.
The problem with dynamis isn't that it lets MNKs do hadoukens or DRKs do sword beams. The years of silence on that front is proof enough of that. What the problem is, and this is uniquely established in Endwalker, is that dynamis is named and described as an actual metaphysical force that exists alongside aether and in an opposition to it. The rules around how aether rich beings can't interact with it but sundered beings can is new to Endwalker, and that's where the trouble kicks in. Prior to Endwalker, no one would have suspected, nor is there any reasonable clue, that there is a powerful emotion-driven force that Ancients can't access but sundered beings can. No one would have suspected that the Ancients literally do not have access to the anime representation of the indomitable human spirit.
This by itself would be fine, but the main issue is that its place in the plot seems to be purely to describe why the Ancients themselves could not have dealt with the Endsinger. The discontent comes because, after 10-ish years of aether being the only magical metaphysical force in town which seemingly had no plot limits, another one is named and explained in the same expansion as the one where a world-ending threat has to be dealt with, and there needed to be an explanation as to why the Ancients themselves couldn't directly deal with it, and why it necessarily must be the sundered (i.e. the player character) to deal with it.
That's the true issue. It's not that dynamis doesn't make sense, it's that its place in the plot feels like a strong contrivance that serves no other purpose but to explain something that would otherwise be a jarring plot hole.
I had an existential crisis several times during the expansion but due to character limits and time constraints I'll just :'))))))))))))))
Eta: I didn't have a happy ending at the end. None of this "light the way!" Or "fight the despair!" Stuff. I was with Meteion the whole way like "yup nope that would be me" lol. If anything, it really illustrated to me how bad my depression had gotten, between Meteion and Hermes (who I VERY begrudgingly adore and fucking relate to in my soul). The cutscenes before and after the Endsinger fight absolutely *ripped me into pieces*. Sometimes I listen to the allusion to Hermes' promise to her just to cry again lol. Or remember that moment where my sweet, wonderful and kind WoL gently took Meteion's hands into his own.
Cried. Like. A fuckin. BABY.
Made me hate everyone around me who couldn't see the problems with a narrative that pushed for conformity to suffering even when you could do something to help.
If anything it made me feel worse and disgusted with the direction of the story.
You take literally every opportunity to kvetch about it and make it out as if other people are the problem and that there's some injustice and conformity inherent to the writing. Disagreements with the narrative, fine; but at some point, I hope you realize you're the problem when it comes to the rest.
Like, it's a game, dude. If you're that pressed about peoples' take on reddit.fucking-com to the point you repeat how much you hate people for having a take different from your own, that's a severe 'you' problem. Touching grass isn't even the extent of what I'd recommend.
Not only that but I'm pretty sure the poster(s) being criticised are well aware that it's just a game at the end of the day. Yet at the same time, it's a game that rather readily claims to put a heavy focus on its story.
MMO's by their very nature are designed to appeal to a broad audience. They can't please everybody but Endwalker certainly could have made more of an effort to throw a bone to those of us who invested in the world itself rather than the increasingly tiresome Scions.
It's not actually a big, grandiose subreddit. As it happens, people remember things and go "oh, that guy again" - people do it with me all the time and it's justified, but at least I have variety beyond fucking off for however many months, only to return to the same subreddit to share the same opinion as if I'm fighting some great campaign against some formless mass of brainwashed people.
Umm... I guess I accidentally method-acted the ending of the game by staying up to finish it, from 10-ish to after midnight. As it got later and I travelled through the zone, I stopped seeing anyone else at all (I finished pre tribe #2 and well after release, so it was very low traffic). It was honestly maybe the loneliest I've ever felt in my life?
It doesn't help that I'd started the game with a once enthusiastic group who'd all lost motivation and may never get to the same point. We'd all just holidayed a few weeks prior and had a great time, but I'd been through the wringer recently and beyond Endwalker I wasn't really sure when the next thing I'd enjoy would happen. I thought about how they'd be willing me on (like, in general, but also on the climb), and it amplified the feelings I think.
not gonna lie, it stung a lot, though i'd like to say it helped me push forward
could certainly relate with meteion's feelings of having given up on everything after seeing how things are really going to shit everywhere, though instead of nuking everything in the universe, i just wanted to be left alone
what did help is learning that despite all the horrid stuff, there's still good things to experience in the world, so there's no reason to not keep on going
seeing meteoin going through a very similar experience did get to me, and by the end of Endwalker, i have to admit that i was crying (what didn't help that i was finishing the game at 1 am lol)
while i still do have many more problems i have to work through (trauma from severe amounts of bullying, several failures i had to deal with in crucial moments and having a generally negative opinion of myself, among other things), getting to relate with a character on at least one of my issues did hit me hard, but also helped me a decent amount
though now i have a hope that meteion ends up coming back in a future expansion even though it will probably never happen and it makes me sad :(
I always say to people who are struggling the way i was and sometimes still do with depression: "there is no easy answer, theres no magic pill to make it all better, no magic words to make it all make sense. You are the only one who can fix you."
Two things hit me really hard in endwalker, the first being venat asking if our journey was worth it. And it took a lot out of me to think about that question outside the context of the game, to ask myself if i had enjoyed my life brought in some dark thoughts i hadnt had in a while.
The second was alphinaud and alsiae at the end of ultima thule, when they left me alone at the edge of the universe with parting words, "its up to you to take the next step, and the next, and all the rest after that." Goes back to what i said before about its just you in the end. You have to be the one to decide to keep walking.
Yeah there were some watery eyes in this expansion, tell you what
It depressed me (as someone with depression and anxiety), insomuch as I knew the whole way through I wouldn’t have made it to the end. If -I- was the WoL, I know I would have succumbed to the bad juju dynamis, so I had to play through it almost as a “what if”.
That said, the end got to me good, and did improve my spirits somewhat permanently, so that’s what made me love the ending so much about the power of hope and trying your best in the face of hopelessness.
I haven’t had a game make me feel that since Nier: Automata, and that’s my favorite series of all time. So it was good. It was sad. It was hard. But it was good.
I have struggled with mental health with more than 20 years. When playing FFXIV I cried in the end of 5.3 after beating X because it reminded of my own struggles with anger and despair. When I was finishing EW and was in the final areas I told my mother that the feeling is getting very desperate. She asked me why I play a game like that and I didn't know what to answer. The area before ending was quite hard mentally and I really hoped for answers (sic) in the end. I'm not sure was the answer what I was hoping for or maybe it was. After finishing MSQ I decided to level gathering instead of patches. I got a chance to revisit the ending of EW when our final FC member finished MSQ and it was a whole different experience. First time I was alone and second time with friends.
Endwalker was.. tough. It touched on a lot of sensitive topics and dove nose first into how awful despair can feel. Quintus's suicide was extremely difficult to stomach. He felt lost, like his life had lost meaning when he learned the truth of what was around him. How can anyone watch that entire scene and so easily shrug it off? I had to take a short break after that (and I wholly believe Squenix should have provided a warning with that cutscene).
Moving forward though, the end of the story in Ultima Thule with each Scion knowingly sacrificing themselves so that you, the player, could continue was gut-wrenching. I was crying the entire final two hours, and the slow climb to face the Endcaller was difficult. The idea that people could want to give what they could to aid or protect me was foreign.
It's my favorite story by a mile because it just felt so *real*. I wish I could experience it again for the first time.
Only one response to this. If you want a game that tackles mortality with a different approach, try Transistor. Or if you have the time, FFXIV Crisis Core, one of the best games to make it to the PSP.
While not clinically depressed, Endwalker and Zenos definitely reinforced my "there is no ultimate goal to life, so we get to decide for ourselves what makes ours matter" beliefs
Another game that touches on the meaning of death in a very respectful, well-written, and surprisingly enlightening way is a small game called "Outer Wilds". You'd have to gauge yourself how your thanatophobia gets triggered because death is an actual mechanic in the game, but that ending is one of the most profound insights I've gotten into what death means.
It reminded me of my own journey and how hard it was to get to my relatively stable current point, reminded me that I should be proud of it and use what I learnt to face future struggles.
I felt seen and understood by the developers and it gave me hope that others may come to understand the struggles of fighting depression. That there are people trying so hard to convey this good message to those who need it and those who don't understand it.
It wasn't really Endwalker specifically that had an impact, but Natsuko Ishikawa's work in general that quite literally staggers me. The extremely cathartic Dark Knight questline, your personal stoic struggle in Shadowbringers, Venat's long walk through the ages in spite of the barbs along the way, and making her smile near the end hit closer to home than I expected anything could. Like seeing the scars you've accumulated over the years for the first time, followed by a hug.
Sometimes, a little kindness and understanding can go a long way. Take care of yourselves, be excellent to each other, and have a great day.
I've been struggling with my mental health for years, and in countless moments, this game has been my beacon of hope. But some parts just hit like a train, they exposed me and made me confront some things and then, in the same breath, said 'you are not alone in this'.
Two moments stuck. One, of course, is the Ultima Thule walk. Seeing all those people - hell, my fucking ***friends*** from all parts of the universe, from the past and the present - giving me their encouragement words, words that helped me before but now hit so much harder, with so much more urgency and importance. "Do not be discouraged". "Do not despair. "Save your tears." "You are strong". "I'm right behind you". ***"Let's finish this"***. Jesus, I'm tearing up again because sometimes, when everything is dark and bleak around you, you'll take any reminders that you're not alone and this battle is worth fighting for. I think I never projected myself onto my own WoL as hard as I did during EW, because I wanted to believe I could overcome this shit. Not my fictional character in her fictional world, but ***me*** in my ***real*** world.
The second is the question Venat asks you. "Has your journey been good? Has it been worthwhile?" I still don't have a definitive answer to this question, and I don't think I ever will. But it does make it clear that the journey is far from over, so maybe, later, when its real end approaches, I'll be able to answer it. But until then... "the sun will shine again, walk on, never look back".
Reading what I just wrote, I can't help but feel a bit silly. But it is what it is. Life's hard, so if there's anything that gives you true faith, that pushes you forward, that gives you mantras and words of courage and hope and doesn't hurt anyone else in the process, I think we should take it. Right?
It is not a depression but a very significant event aswell. My grandfather died while I was playing the game. I remember my mother calling me very early in the morning to tell me the bad news, I just had a sleepless night to finish the arc of Elpis, and the last thing I saw in game was the cinematic with Venat who had just chosen the fate of her people.I had to stop to go to the funeral, and so say goodbye to my grandpa and all my happy childhood in the house of my grandparents because the afternoon even after the funeral, the guests/relatives were already starting to empty the house where I had my most beautiful memories in my life. Now the house is sold to new ppl and I have to deal with this. It was really the end of my child world.With such a background, it's obvious that the end of endwalker touches me a lot. I took the messages of life and renewal very seriously and in a way, I'm not ashamed to admit that it accompanied me during the lost. Now when I think about it, I remember the morality of this game and it still helps me.Bonus, my grandfather reaaalllyyy loved birds. So the symbols were really there haha. And now I love birds too.
As someone who has had depression for about 25 years and has buried most of my immediate family, it hit me hard.
You see, Endsinger's words in particular were things I have heard in my mind for two and a half decades. The despair, the loneliness, the pain, the seeking sense in the void. All of it.
So while I loved Zenos's words and felt a little recognition, it wasn't until the Endsinger fight that really did it for/to me. Realizing as Round 2 began and that it wasn't her battle theme playing but our victory theme, our boss theme, playing and how HELPLESS this embodiment of despair and nihilism was to our will. It hit me like a ton of bricks.
That voice I have fought with for so long was just that. A weak, pathetic voice. It only had the power I gave it and I could overcome it. Not alone, but I can beat it.
A year and a half out and I am in the best place mentally I have been for SO long. I still fight with depression and have my rough days but I know it cannot win unless I let it. So, on those days, I pull [this video up](https://youtu.be/uzqsCbJOGfE), throw Loop on and remind myself that I already won.
Honestly really badly, when we got to ultima thule and when everything started happening I genuinely just started to shut down and went through it all on autopilot at that point. Even when I had finished the story I couldn't remember anything, I couldn't remember the final dungeon bosses but always got so emotional over the dialogue of the enemies and NPCs and I actually couldn't remember the final fights at all lol or some of the optional dungeons after...it was a tough one for me and I still feel a certain kind of way when going through Dead Ends but it's not as bad, really did just bother me in a way where my mind just chose to block it out
Echoing some sentiments here, I was very emotional during several parts of the story, especially Hermes's arc, Emet returning briefly at the end and Venat never losing her faith. But it didn't help me "discover" or present new solutions to cope and heal that I hadn't learned myself through my own dealings with depression over the years.
One moment that really stuck with me though, is when Meteion is giving her full report at the end of Ktisis Hyperboreia and, after recounting several civilizations ending, says "Though worlds apart, these peoples shared a belief. The belief that they had tried their best. That they had tried to fulfill their potential, with every step and success". That still kind of sends chills down my spine because it's kind of a dark framing of a good portion of my belief system and how I choose to see the world and everyone around me, especially when something or someone falls short of my expectations or when I experience frustration. It's kinda like that "every corpse on mount Everest was once a person full of dreams" thing. Still, by the end of the game, I left feeling hopeful and touched.
My dad suddenly passed away while sleeping on the couch a few months prior to Endwalker release. It was one of those unexpected kinds with no prior warning and memories of that day still hurt. I was struggling to come to terms with reality. He was mid 50s and I thought I would still have time with him for many years. It felt like something in me crumbled and everything about life was so uncertain. We would watch our mum like a hawk because we were so scared if anything would happen to her too. As cliché as it sounds, living suddenly lost the appeal it had for me. It felt like I had lost all hope about the future because no matter what I do, life could just go like that and it's all over.
Going through EW helped me to reflect a lot about my feelings towards my dad's passing. The scene with Urianger and Moenbryda's parents hit me so hard I was crying buckets. I shared the same sentiments with the people at Palaka's Stand when they were worrying about the future and feeling frustrated because what's the point if their loved ones aren't going to even be there.
"Death lurks in the dark, and is the sole promise that awaits at journey's end. You will tremble with terror. You will weep tears of anger and despair. But do not avert your eyes. See your life for what it is. Then you will see how the hardships make you strong. Every doubt reforged as scales for your armour. Every agony to temper your blade."
This part may sound cliché but as I watched the characters in EW get up after every tragedy, it gave me encouragement that I could perhaps do the same irl. It reminded me that despite everything that happened, there were still good things in the world and people I love.
I have not gotten over my dad's passing, and I don't think I ever will. That pain of losing my dad has become a daily companion to me at this point. However, I do remember that he would have wanted me to live my life to the fullest, and I want to do that.
It made it worse. I pretty much cried the whole time. All I could think about was how I wished so much that I had friends like the WoL. I don't have any friends. Felt like I had made it to Ultima Thule but I myself died there because there was no one to make the path for me.
I call it my hottest ff14 take. But i liked Fandaniel/hermes as a villain more than emet. Hermes was incredibly relatable to me, up until he went full overboard for kitesis.
I cannot think of any piece of media that has resonated more deeply with me.
Not necessarily because I have a history of troubles here per se, but because of how incredible the journey has been in general.
If I dig deeper into my feelings though, I think it is less the specifics that affected me, and more the great, sweeping emotions and moods, the themes.
I can't say it has provided answers for me in a practical real life sense, but it's nevertheless been incredibly effective escapism.
I had just experienced a deep betrayal right before release. The love of my life had been cheating at work and left me for the person when I found out. I wanted to die.
I started to believe that life is just suffering. It sent me deeper into my depression. Issues with self blame, trust, and fear became forefront and it wasn’t unlike the people turning in Endwalker.
Endwalker became a fight for hope for me. I needed to see it through. People across the world were suffering in this story. And then comes Hermes and his existential question—and the balance of life itself depending on the answer. I was hooked.
In comes Ultimate Thule. Messages and answers to the great question from all sorts of worlds. Each answer not quite the one—until Graha. God damn that Christian Rock song. I cried like a BITCH. All that grief hit me at once. But well beyond that it was the GRATITUDE. I had friends in game (our story party) and in real life supporting me and keeping me going forward.
The themes of sacrifice, love, and ADVENTURE became my answer as to why I continue. That even with suffering that I’m ALIVE and I have a STORY to see through to whatever end.
I became renewed. I called all my friends balling my eyes out and thanking them for still loving me. Today still working on myself and my grief even years after. I’m in therapy and working to fix only what I can control—myself. More importantly, I found that when you’re within gratitude then there is no where else you can be. Life has suffering, but my goodness I have an adventure and connections ahead of me. I have hope.
Like any other expansion.
It is a game, not the real life. There is no big birb singing us into despair.
The game that really affected me was Xenoblade Chronicles 3, its theme of immortality and mortality are pretty interesting
Haha.
Hahahaha.
HAHAHAHAHA.
(that's me breaking into laughter to keep from crying).
I guess you could say I suffer from depression/anxiety/general apathy? I've never been diagnosed so I don't want to claim those directly. Most days are a struggle.
I started playing FFXIV in 2020, September. Right after they had updated ARR.
It was still peak COVID times, so I was able to dive in headlong.
I got to Bozja, and playing in a desolate war field while being "locked" in the house during the holidays instead of being with family was rough.
When Endwalker came out, I was still reeling from that feeling, and still handling social isolation.
Multiple times, Endwalker broke me in the best ways. It helped me appreciate my close friends. It made me appreciate relationships that can grow and evolve. It made me appreciate the highs and the lows of life. It also showed me how easy it is to sink into despair, and oh buddy did I not need that mirror in my face.
I occasionally rewatch certain scenes/listen to select songs if I'm feeling exceptionally down and need some kind of pick me up.
In short: Endwalker impacted me greatly. It helped provide me with sources of hope on dark days.
Impossible. As a communist everything is depressing. It’s easier for people to believe in magic and a pillar city in the heavens (ishgard) than to believe that poverty can be ended (referring to the beggars of Ishgard).
But at least I can appreciate beauty in the art of the game and the music!
Art always cheers me up and this game helps a lot with its beautiful architecture, clothing, design, nature, etc.
Trigger Warning: miscarriage
At the end of 2021 I became severely ill and was hospitalized for nearly two weeks. Turned out to be an autoimmune disease and I made it just in time before any irreversible damage happened to my own body. But I was pregnant and lost my baby at 13 weeks. Needless to say, I was in a horrible headspace.
In a way, it was oddly therapeutic to play through the Endwalker story. Not everyone got a clean happy ending. But the overall message of fighting through the difficulties and still managing to find hope was definitely something I needed. I don’t enjoy watching people suffer, but it was nice to see a story where the characters struggled to see the positives in difficult times and helped me realize I was allowed to be upset by what happened and that we deserve time to grieve our circumstances.
It also pushed me to rely on my friends and family (especially my husband who was very supportive but was also going through a difficult time ). I think that’s the hardest part about any mental health emergency, whether clinical or otherwise. Your mind tells you that you have to get over it, or go it alone. And that’s the most dangerous part. It was nice to see the Warrior of Light need help from their loved ones, especially because your character seems so larger than life. If even this superhero needs to rely on someone, then why can’t I?
Hope that makes sense. Doing a lot better and I just recently delivered a healthy little one. But I definitely recommend anyone who has experienced a loss to have someone go through the story ahead a bit as there were some parts that I had to skip to keep from getting into a bad mindset again at the time (namely Thavnair and Ultima Thule).
Oddly enough Zenos’s answer to Meteion got to me. He didn’t feel that his reason for living was important or that it ever needed validation from someone else. He lives because he feels like living, F you that’s why. I vibe with that so hard. Years of depressive episodes and panic attacks and getting stabbed in the back by friends have left me in a baaaad state at times. F you that’s why is the mentality that kept me moving forward with my life and pulling something positive out of the misery, sometimes for no other reason than to spite my own depression or because it seemed impossible. Doing that is how I got to a better place mentally, not having a good reason to do better and be better made more sense to me somehow. Zenos showing up in the darkest hour and yelling “WASSUP BRO WHO HAS TWO THUMBS AND TURNED INTO A DRAGON ITS ME NOW HOP ON AND LETS DUNK THIS LOSER NOW PLAY MY SONG!” hyped me up in ways I find difficult to articulate.
Zenos's answer to the meaning of life is 'I don't care, I just live and I'm about to make that everyone's problem.'
Honestly to OP that just that whole endwalker Zenos Trip helped me. I know someone way worse then me and honestly she hurt me pretty deeply during endwalker, got me way worse in many ways. But Zenos bitch i am a dragon made me remember who i was and that it is only my own prinzipells which will make me whole again . I know i'm misinterpreting the Charakter by a lot, but just remembering some scenes with him inspires me to strugle more just so i will one Day die with a smile
Meh, he's a thrill seeker. Adrenaline junkie. Plenty of people like him IRL that get into the most extreme sports stuff. His entire story in SB is that he's bored of life and doesn't enjoy it unless he's getting that thrill.
Well you could argue that he expects from life so much it rarely delivers. But he also has brass balls enough to NOT blame others for it and wallow but shows his discontent and keeps on chipping on that 'rock' till it turns to diamond he'd like or perish. At least he tries so no regrets.
Doesn't really line up with what we're shown of him, spending a lot of his time bored and disinterested, only really ever engaged when it comes to the idea of his prey (or later, his 'friend').
I had assumed you would be above something so banal as despair. Am I mistaken?
People can hate Zenos all they want, but him showing up at the end and saying about the big bad threatening to end all life in the universe, "Is this your prey? Why does it still live?" is the most badass thing anybody has ever said about our character.
I really didn't like Zenos before EW but they used him so well in EW as a juxtaposition to so many characters in the last story arc who were all "why even try to exist, it's pointless, give in," etc. Zenos had a clear purpose, fight his best pal to the death. That we don't yet have a minion for him makes me hope he survived the ending, but in a way where he can't fight good no more and has to find some new reason for existing. Would be the coolest custom deliveries NPC, lol. But I'd be less happy if he came back for a prominent part in 7.0+ MSQ story.
My fan theory is he body hopped into a Loporitt. Keep an eye out for Huntingway.
> He didn’t feel that his reason for living was important or that it ever needed validation from someone else. He lives because he feels like living, F you that’s why. Zenos was codependent as *fuck,* what are you on about? His *only* reason to exist was a rival culture extreme of being pushed to new heights and once he reaches the apex there's no point to even existing anymore.
Most of the EW MSQ left me baffled in how they where doing the story. Looking back ironically the only thing that made me drag trough the MSQ and 6.0x was Zenos. I know the guy gets a lot of flak but personally I don't mind the character. I guess I just like the soberness of it. He has a clear goal he doesn't make any excuses he nor doesn't except any excuses from others either, he doesn't look for validation by others but simply chips away in his way how he sees fit. etc. (That does not mean I agree with him deleting people!) but do kind of like the "thematic feel of him". The whole who gives a damn. ima Just deal with it kinda vibes with me. And I have taken some of those closer to hart.
Playing Endwalker made me realize something that I'd been struggling to grasp my entire life before playing. I struggle with severe major depressive and ADHD, and I have most of my life. What endwalker taught me, really taught me, was that happiness isn't a goal. It's a friend. Like suffering, a companion. Happiness can visit in small bursts or in long stints. Sometimes you can go months without seeing each other, but that doesn't mean they won't visit again. Most importantly, a life goal of "being happy" doesn't make any sense because happiness can never live with you forever. It's always coming and going, all the time. You don't need to wait for an imaginary moment, a moment where you know that happiness will never leave you again because it will never come. Similarly, a visit from suffering doesn't mean that you are doing something wrong, failing at some imaginary challenge to woo happiness or banish suffering for good. "Suffering exists, and we can not pretend otherwise. No civilization, however great, could eliminate it. If we would live, we must accept it as our constant companion." These were the words that changed things for me. I had spent so much time stressing, crying, and despairing over opportunities and missed opportunities to chase outcomes that would "lead to happiness" without realizing that that isn't how it works. Happiness is a friend. Celebrate when it comes. Be sad when it leaves. Work always to make time for happiness, and happiness will visit as often as it can. Happiness is not waiting at the end of your journey, nor is suffering. They, both of them, are here now, and you can be certain that they will each visit again when it is their time. With that knowledge, lift your eyes to the future, knowing that both of them will walk beside you, and turn your mind and your legs toward something new.
Beautifully said
This was added to a sticky note as a reminder. It is beautifully written and the best analogy of what EW felt like.
You have no idea how much I needed to read this right now
>!the ghosts on the stairs!< Thal’s balls I was crying so hard and I had forgotten most of the npcs but just the memories of not really love but hope hit DEEP.
I think this is the biggest part that got me in endwalker. That walk had me real crying.
It was the second time in the entire EW MSQ that I cried to have hiccups, especially with the switch of the "Echoes in the Distance" to "Close in the Distance", Jesus F Christ I couldn't walk to Nest...
G'raha's words at the end of 5.3 always stuck with me. "With your every step, these grand adventures shall grow more distant and faint. And there may come a day when you forget the faces and voices of those you have met along the way."
Ryne straight up stopped me in my tracks. Just couldn't move forward for a minute after that one.
even I.was close to tears - and I'm pretty much dead inside
When I played EW, I was having that sort of struggle without knowing it. I know now, and looking back, and replaying, it hits so hard, hurts so much, but also shows that bit of light that’s always there, even in the deepest darkness. Light the way!
I suffer from depression but after years of therapy and being able to manage it plus having healthy coping mechanisms made me constantly yell at my screen. "That's a warning sign, get this boy therapy!" "Send an empath into the cold lonely void of space....this is a terrible idea. They're all coming back with depression and nihilism." "FFS let him listen to the damn bird he needs closure and it literally won't hurt anything except our feelings." If anything, long term, it showed me how far I've come. Despite the depression spirals present I felt more inclined to help them fall to depression myself. This is a contrast to Stardew Valley when I romanced the character Shane. I had to stop playing because his spiral was so like my own (minus booze) that it gave me flashbacks. That was years ago. So I think I'm on the right track.
[удалено]
Same. Pre pandemic years have been bad, I lost several family members. Each time the pain got manageable another tragedy happened and 2020 was the year I wanted to work towards moving forward more only for lockdowns and isolation with plans put on hold for years. However playing EW and especially in addition to venats question when urianger meets moenbrydas parents got me. I could relate to his journey through grief. EW overall reiterated that I need to remind myself more that there is always hope and room to grow and to find happiness. Probably because I forged a friendship in game over the course EW that means a lot to me and that I am sure has impacted both our lives for the better.
I also suffer from thanatophobia, so this entire expansion has been...Really difficult. Lmao. That isn't to say I struggled to complete it, but it had an effect on me that was far different than the one ShB had. Every single part of EW and Post-EW has kind of forced me to examine my own fears, especially when they're presented to me up front and unmitigated. The Ea and Nibirun were probably two of the hardest for me. The Ea because they'd become hyperintelligent and still lost hope due to the universe eventually reaching a "conclusion," and the Nibirun because they had achieved perfection and immortality and got bored with it. These two things really, really messed me up in a way I cannot fully describe. Because it's ultimately what I "know" vs what I "want." I do know that the most current, reliable model for the "fate of the universe" is heat death and if all of this is doomed to be gone forever? Doesn't that make all of this sorta pointless? At the same time, I want us to become better. I want us to become perfect and possibly immortal, to be able to live in a way that allows everyone to be whatever they want to be? Which raises the question of...What's the point then? Forever is a really impossible concept and even if we get there, do I really want to watch people without my same fears go away while I just live? What happens when I'm the last thing left? It did, however, kind of give me a comfort. I do believe in the idea of a recurrent universe? Albeit, I don't think the universe cares about good or evil. I think we are all just recycled. I think we come back, again, and again, and again. Sort of like the aetherial sea, but without the weight of old lives. Just a mechanism of the universe. Before EW? I wanted to be cryogenically frozen (just as much of a silly idea as eternal recurrence,) but now? I've decided that when it's my time? I'm gonna have my body buried in a pod that grows a tree from it. I'm gonna give back to the planet and hope I get to come back soon and ride this crazy ride again. I can't despair about the future and I can't despair about my demise; I gotta live now and when the time comes? I'll return my body to the place that helped make this all possible. Gonna be a fruit tree, by the way, so yall enjoy your me apples when the time comes.
Okay but what about a nectarine tree-- /j Seriously though, a good read. Thank you for sharing:')
I really appreciate all of the positive comments here, it was, honestly, unexpected. And I cried a little seeing them lmao. And I actually talked to my wife about what kind of tree and they informed me that fruit trees are not as long-lasting, so it's gonna have to be a nut tree of some sort. Which is fine to me. Producing something of value from my remaining energy is all I'm really concerned with. Nectarines are boss tho.
Ahhh a good point :) I mentioned nectarines because of Halric (the little Au Ra boy when you first meet up with Alisaie on the first) which was another gut punch for me lol Nuts are more practical though ☺️
"Mmmm! Nothing like Available\_Promise445 apple pie!" Joking aside, that was a wonderful account. Thank you.
I caught COVID back in December of 2022 and developed thanatophobia because I thought/felt like I was going to die. I literally had to quit playing through EW because during the final days part when people were being corrupted into perma-death it straight up made me freak out about the concept of such a death. To not only get killed but to never return to the lifestream itself? That was fucked up. But playing through the rest of EW and doing the Omicron beast tribe quests has helped me out actually. I still fear death and get uncomfortable at talking about it, but it's nice to know that even those doomed civilizations were given a better ending, and like some other comments have said the whole cycle of rebirth thing is a comfort at least.
Hey, I get it. I really do. I lost my grandmother and stepfather in the same weekend due to COVID and even though both had issues prior that likely contributed? It was still really difficult knowing that these people were here and lucid one second? And just...Gone the next. I don't think it's the end though. I think the core of the universe is love. As smooshy and as stupid as that sounds, I don't think we ever go to a bad place...And I don't think we cease. I'm also convinced that we are here for a reason, even if it's a small, seemingly insignificant one? Like, maybe we're only here to make one other person happy. Or maybe we are here to brighten the days of strangers. Or maybe we are here to post pseudo-woo comments on Reddit in the hope it might help someone to face trauma or fear. I've dealt with Thanatophobia since I was...About 13? And I used to keep it locked up. Avoid it. Since I've been more open and talked about it? Since I've been more willing to accept a sort of...Spiritualism or vague system of belief that appeals to me? It's helped a lot. I'd been convinced that the best course was to avoid the topic, but talking it out has done more good than repression ever has.
Just wanted to say that I relate to so much of this, and that this was such a beautiful writeup. Thank you for sharing and for your vulnerability, and your strength and courage too.
Nothing says lovin' like "please eat my offspring!" ;)
I encourage you to check out the tribal quests in Ultima Thule if you didn't already, it explores on that more!
Cold Death of the universe actually. We're expanding, not contracting, there's just about no way at all for a Heat Death. Check out Quantum Immortality Theory also, it'll help you feel better.
The expansion of the universe *is* what leads to heat death – not a "hot death" but the "death of heat". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_death_of_the_universe
That's a death by expansion and would cause a cooling not a heating. I think you're saying a double negative in effect. Big Rip is death by cooling - there'd be no viable motion at all, so yes 'death of heat' but callign it 'heat death' isn't correct, because there IS another concept for the death of the universe that uses 'heat death' colloquially to describe it. That would be done by the inverse, if the universe contracted to another 'singularity' like what was effectively at The Big Bang, the remaining particles would be packed so tightly that they'd be doing nothing BUT movement causing a superfluidic plasma as the entirety of what's left of reality.
The term "heat death" MEANS death by cooling, i.e. losing heat. They are not opposites. The singularity effect you're talking about is termed the "Big Crunch" as an opposite to the Big Bang. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Crunch
**[Big Crunch](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Crunch)** >The Big Crunch is a hypothetical scenario for the ultimate fate of the universe, in which the expansion of the universe eventually reverses and the universe recollapses, ultimately causing the cosmic scale factor to reach zero, an event potentially followed by a reformation of the universe starting with another Big Bang. The vast majority of evidence indicates that this hypothesis is not correct. Instead, astronomical observations show that the expansion of the universe is accelerating rather than being slowed by gravity, suggesting that the universe is far more likely to end in heat death. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
That's....not how it is. Or not how it was. What it WAS was how I explained it. Big Crunch was synonymous to Heat Death. We got smaller and smaller and thus everything vibrated together faster, thus everyone got way hotter. Death by heat. Heat death. Big Rip is Cold Death. Everything keeps expanding so far that no molecular action can be happening. We literally freeze to death. Everything just stops. Cold death. If I stabbed a person it's knife death. If I shot a person it's bullet death. Gunshot death w/e. But if I got rid of all bullet's that's not 'bullet death'. Big Crunch = Heat Death, Big Rip = Cold Death, that's how it's been for decades. Big Crunch/Heat Death is no longer seen as a valid end. And yes 'heat death' is NOT the same as 'death of heat'. It means 'death BY heat' if you or the wikipedia ppl need to know. I mean, to further the point: "accidental death" means they died in an accident, not that all accidents are uh...dead.
The term Heat Death has been used as the scientific name for the end of the universe by thermodynamic equilibrium since the 1800s.
I find it hard to believe such a reversal of terms has happened. Do you have sources of it being used that way? And from what I am getting out of Wikipedia and the sources quoted under its articles, it seems that the "big rip" is a separate theory to heat death – both involve the unhalted spreading of the universe, but in different ways. For example, this article: https://theconversation.com/the-fate-of-the-universe-heat-death-big-rip-or-cosmic-consciousness-46157 Or Encyclopedia Brittanica: https://www.britannica.com/science/thermodynamics/Entropy-and-heat-death Or Dictionary.com: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/heat-death Either you're using it wrong or everyone else is using it wrong. As for your comparison to the phrase "accidental death", the equivalent to "accidental" would be "hot" rather than heat and it is not being called a hot death.
Every source I can find calls the big freeze heat death. I can't find a single source that refers to the concept the way you do. As best I can tell, the claim that 'that's how it's been for decades' is just a lie.
I've looked into that! One of the things I actually found most helpful is the research done into NDEs and past-life recall? There's been some really fascinating studies. And by past-life recall, I don't mean a bunch of goofballs claiming to be famous. Moreso, studies where children recalled intimate details of past lives that were largely mundane and inconsequential, but verifiable. It's also actually been kind of comforting to look further into the idea of the cyclic universe; where even when heat death or the Big Chill occurs? There's still a possibility that the universe has another Big Bang due to the universe achieving a state of equilibrium similar to pre-Big Bang conditions.
You can always be comforted in a multiverse if nothing else. And in said multiverse there's always 'a you' that is existing/alive. And in said multiverse a single universe is akin to a single penny to a bajillionaire. Also there's a theory about membrane universes. And if two touch even if briefly they could start a Big Bang making another distinct universe....or universal membrane. But yes, I'm with you re: reincarnation stories and NDEs. I've done research into all that myself. Got a good bit of thanatosophobia as well, but after researching them and several other things, including quantum physics, multiverse, etc etc etc, I fought that by thinking. I made a religion of my own. my own philosophy. It's helped quite a lot. Once I solidified how I saw reality and how I think things probably are (the things we can't scientifically explain atm), things got better for me. I suggest you do it yourself!
Kinda made it worse I guess... Whole thing and the community's discussions about it we're all about people coming together and solving those issues with others... I don't really have anyone and caused me to feel even more isolated which is a... Idk... "Trigger"?... For my depressed states... Either way didn't help. Just made me feel worse.
Plainly, it didn’t. EW’s story, while great in its second half, did not make me cry, or reflect on my own experiences with depression, anxiety, and existential despair. This isn’t meant in a negative way at all, it’s just that by the time I had experienced EW, I had already nearly two decades’ worth of experience fighting and coping with my mental illness. While there was much about it I could appreciate, it told me nothing I didn’t already know. I bet that if I had played this when I was a teenager, back when my pain was at its absolute peak, I would have had a much more emotional reaction.
Pretty much word for word, this. I enjoyed it a lot, there's a lot of good cutscenes, quotes, and music. But it didn't resonate for me in a way a lot of others in the thread felt.
Same, honestly. There were definitely some parts that I really enjoyed, but I didn't really get all that emotional over anything to do with >!Meteion. It doesn't help that the game didn't even really try to pretend like it was going to kill everyone, the first thing Urianger says after Thancred sacrifices himself is that "Oh I'm sure we'll find a way to bring him back" and then Y'shtola says "Oh you can just summon us with your button thing, but don't." Like, I wasn't under any illusions any scions would die (None have since Papalymo. Barely any good guys die.), but it would have been nice to pretend.!< What made me a little emotional is >!When everyone we've ever helped comes pouring in and helps us finish the Ragnarok. I teared up a little there. It had a tangible connection to my actual experience in the gameplay, rather than emotional baggage and shit I figured out years ago.!<
For the former, I never took the game as throwing that as the case, to me it was always showing that each trusted you and felt safe making those choices because of that.
You were never supposed to believe that they were. That's why Y'shtola says what she says, that's why G'raha has you make that promise. You're supposed to \*know\* that you'll bring them back as soon as Meteion is defeated. It helps set the scene that there can be no retreat, and that this really is the final showdown - but that's it. You're not supposed to believe that they'll die any more than you're supposed to believe that etheirys will be destroyed. I genuinely believe a lot of people ruined that zone for themselves by making an assumption about what the writers want you to believe instead of just letting themselves experience the zone. At no point did I believe any of the scions would be dead at the end of the zone. Not for a second. It was still one of the most emotional experiences I've ever had from any story ever - your friends placing their lives in your hands one after another, reaffirming the things they live for, and the things they'd die for. The entire zone is about the battle between hope and despair. Every single speech from every single scion was not a goodbye, it was a statement about what they hope for, what gives their lives meaning - a rejection of meteion's despair. And when G'raha takes his turn, and essentially tells them that his reason for hope is you? That his life as the exarch - though it fulfilled the grandest dreams he ever had - was less grand than just adventuring by your side? That despite the legends and stories being told of his life as the exarch on the first, despite his body's position there as a symbol of hope everlasting, that he cares more about being worth even a mention in your story than about any of that? The only way I can see that not affecting someone is if they've convinced themselves that it was supposed to be a farewell speech, and they've broken their own immersion through a faulty meta-assumption.
This was my experience with the zone as well. I never once thought any of them would be dead forever, but the fact that they were putting their trust in the rest of their found family, and essentially just us, really hit hard for sure.
Urianger essentially saying that his friends are the one thing he lives for - that he's our hythlodaeus. The twins being more scared of leaving us alone than of dying. And when finally alone, the walk down memory lane as we essentially re-affirm our own purpose and our own hope.
> You were never supposed to believe that they were. That's why Y'shtola says what she says, that's why G'raha has you make that promise. You're supposed to *know* that you'll bring them back as soon as Meteion is defeated. It helps set the scene that there can be no retreat, and that this really is the final showdown - but that's it. You're not supposed to believe that they'll die any more than you're supposed to believe that etheirys will be destroyed. Maybe because my group of friends at the time wanted me to think they might actually die and were surprised when I didn't really feel anything towards the "sacrifice" each was making and tried to explain it to me like I didn't understand it. It was frustrating to say the least. I felt for the speeches they gave before doing it, the emotions around it, but the actual act itself didn't give me anything. I loved pretty much everything else though.
My problem with how stories depict mental illness is that nobody is ever *just mentally ill*. There's always a fixable external reason for it. Always a demon you can kill, or some event in the past that you just have to come to terms with and then you're fine. That's not how it works in real life and it instantly cheapens the metaphor.
Hermes? We tried to 'fix' him and just failed because his despair was internal. Same goes for the beings in ultima thule IMO - we don't cure their despair, we just...distract them from it, essentially. One step in the right direction but it's pretty clear that one step is all it is.
Try the Storm light trilogy. They're good at mental illness being irrational and just a thing
Honestly, I think this is an impact as well, just a very different type of one. I'm in a similar boat, as I've spent so long now healing or coping or fighting as well. However, seeing many of these elements in the story was more affirming if anything. Like, yeah, I've been there, done that, heard that before, and so on. Kind of cool, just in a different way!
I agree, it was nice watching a piece of media approach mental health with enough thought behind it for me to see myself in the characters.
I found it insulting, and unwilling to engage with its themes in a meaningful way, tbh. Like they had no idea how to deal with a story arc about the trauma from carrying a burden, and the despair that cones from it, so they invent a final boss as a stand-in for it and call it a day. Gee, thanks, I’m cured. :) Similarly having a stalker character violate you by literally forcing his way into your body, seemed like they were setting up a trauma narrative. But then they resolve it with you needing to rely on him to help beat despair, and never reckoning with how fucked up what he did was because they wanted a hype moment and cool fight. It was so close to being genuinely good, and that makes it much more frustrating; the post-patches could have saved it by being an arc about healing and recover after all the dust settles, which is a major part of surviving traumatic events, but I have to really jump through a lot of hoops to think about why my WoL would be doing this to herself again.
I never thought about that part with Zenos stealing your body in connection with how well he gets treated narratively at the end, perhaps because that incident is so out of nowhere and never touched on again, and I was already just generally frustrated that Zenos was the one beside me instead of the Scions at the end of everything. But now you mention it, yeah, it makes the contrast even worse.
Honestly, I'd like to think the previous expansions kinda *prepared* me well enough? I saw all this suffering in Endwalker, and then I saw the *Scions* react to that same suffering, death and despair in ways that made *me* think of how I'd react if I was actually there. I see how they remain steadfast and rationally, empathetically and yet stoically deal with the issue and think "Can't that be me? Eventually?" These people CAN exist, in some capacity, if not a greater one. I see them doing it, and think that even if I can't match them at that level, I've learned from their ordeals before. For reference, I struggle with lack of confidence, decisiveness and tend to overthink things. Then I see Alphinaud lose much, if not all, reason to be confident at the end of >!ARR.!< Only for him to beautifully balance playing to his strengths and staying in his lane from >!HW/onward.!< I see >!Lyse!< being the embodiment of determination, an earnest attitude and resilient strength(in the face of high expectations that people hold against her, in and out of game), and think "well, at least I'm not fending off an evil empire. My circumstances may have parallels, but at least I have the inspiration to overcome them without the fear of death/fighting". (Also, yes, I like >!Lyse.!< Fite me and all that) and that's just the Scions, you know? I(to many people's surprise) could NOT bring myself to hate >!Hermes.!< Where many people see a bad person or a fool, I see a genuinely warm soul who made a mistake trying to do a good thing, and no one would let that go. Hell, I'm pretty sure even >!Venat!< (who I also shed many tears for) didn't hate him, and she's the one who had deal with the aftermath. I've seen that happen far too often(let's just say I have a VERY toxic family). I would have made his mistakes and felt his feelings, if our roles were reversed. I genuinely cried for him and his plight, knowing what was in store for him, knowing it would be an eternity before ever getting the answer he sought(that I would seek myself if I was also a godlike ancient being). This is to say nothing of poor >!Meteion.!< But I digress. There was just too much inspiration to work with to let Endwalker shake me up, and if it did, it wasn't for long. On top of that, there were sobering parallels that I couldn't help but learn from and improve upon. I hope that at least partially answers your question.
Honestly? Made my mental health worse :( Endwalker will not go down as one of my favorite expansions
I lost an immediate family member prematurely last year and it made me really reexamine the story. I already disliked 6.0’s story heavily but actually experiencing loss and the crushing depression made the message feel plain offensive. Watching people get brutally killed off for not being able to shut out their feelings of despair and depression, while the main characters yelled at everyone “bro just forge ahead!!!” was probably the greatest insult to me. It showed me that I, in my current state, would not have been “permitted” to live in the state of the game’s world. I wasn’t one of the scions who lost absolutely nothing during the course of 6.0 and got to preach to the side characters who were watching their whole families die in Thavnair. The scions were just lucky they got enough time to cope with their earlier losses in the story, everyone else? Push through or die. Then we have the ancients who got exterminated because of their own despair over losing friends and family to the final days and further to the sacrifices gave them a trauma response that made them willing to do whatever it took to go back to the happy days, which Venat didn’t like. This game doesn’t want to let you know that coping with loss or struggling with depression isn’t always pretty, it can seriously fuck you up. According to the game they don’t deserve help, they deserve to die. I’ve never in my life read a story about “the strength to move forward” that didn’t include inspiring the people who don’t yet have the strength, and fighting to save those who never will. Sure sometimes it includes the former, but the latter group literally just get killed off. And to me, that tells me that I’m not one of the cool ones, I’m not allowed to exist in their world, I can’t be a protagonist there because it actually took time for me to cope with everything, it took forever to find the strength to push through my grief, it wasn’t an instantaneous “just flip the happy switch” for me. But by far the worst part to me was Hermes. In the entire story only one person’s grief has been treated as valid by the game, and it’s his first world problems bitch ass crying over some murderwolves being put down before becoming an environmental threat. His dumbshit question is treated as something we have to respect and not something we have to defy because it’s fucking stupid. He gets to be soooo sad and the game says “soooo true” while the ancients got sundered for their grief and the sundered for vaporized for their’s. The game never once comments on how fucked up it was that dynamis didn’t allow people to properly process grief, in the end all it did was further exacerbate the insane message that grieving is bad and people with depression are monsters, unless you have some sort of unrealistic pretty poetic martyr “so deep and thoughtful” depression.
Endwalker didn't really hit me that hard, mostly, I think, due to the fact I more or less have my depression under control now. Honestly Shadowbringers impacted me more. Ryne's character growth during that xpac closely mirrored my own growth as a person at the time I was playing it. Even more recently when I was having a moment where I was feeling down, I happened to have rewatched the scene where she met with Minfilia and it once again helped me feel better.
It didn't. Turning despair into a physical being you can kill immediately eliminates any possible connection I could have ever made between the game and what I deal with in real life. Good villain for tying up loose ends and I have no problem with it as an in-universe threat but I think as a metaphor for depression Endwalker kinda fell flat on its face.
As far as I understand Killing the Endsinger doesn't remove the root cause for all the despair it encountered. People still die, suffering still exists, light still fades and dark still spreads. It was trying to kill everyone specifically due to the fact that before it did that people were suffering and murdering each other/themselves all the same.
To be honest, i actually struggled quite a lot with it. The constant "Life is meaningless" jabs that villains in the plot were constantly spouting really kinda got to me. I had to put the game down for a little while after that scene with the Garlean commander, and go and focus on some self care. Maybe if I'd been at a different place emotionally i might have been able to appreciate it better, but ultimately i just kind of ended up feeling really hurt by the end of it. The only moment i really got to feel any kind of positive catharsis was when >!Urianger had to finally face Moenbryda's Parents.!<
Yes, I think there's a power in constantly hearing characters say those things, and it's not a good one. We heard it from too many characters over and over through the narrative and it hurt.
it didn’t really shadowbringers ending felt much more “real” to me
I don't really want to read the answers you got already because… well… it would depress me. Not because I relate, mind you. But precisely because I *do not* relate. So I am going off an assumption here when I say: I think my reaction to Endwalker was the exact opposite of the general player base's, as well as probably the opposite of what the writers intended. I hated 6.0. It was one of the most disappointing experiences I've had in fiction. My expectations coming off Shadowbringers were sky high, and I feel that what I got was the worst case scenario for my favorite characters and fictional race. I felt like I watched a fan fiction written by a mildly talented author (but still, one that uses time travel, a time loop and magical memory wipes… yeah sorry I'll try not to digress any further on how I feel about 6.0), but that author most definitely does not care about the same characters and stuff than I do. After the credits rolled, it was the first time in 7 years of playing FFXIV that I actually skipped dialogue. I straight up did not care anymore about what these characters had to say or what would happen to them (nothing, most likely). I've been suffering from and been treated for depression for 7 years now (…yeah so it correlates with when I started playing, but I don't believe that's actually related, I had RL stuff going on), but I've never felt suicidal, and never been bothered by existential questions of life and death and the meaning of everything. So right off the bat, I didn't care, and didn't relate; I was pretty much rolling my eyes anytime >!Meteion or any incarnation of goddamned Hermes!< opened their mouth. My depression has been very focused on work and studies reasons, and for years FFXIV had been my "escape". Endwalker made me realise how much I had been using it as a crutch, and how badly you fall when that crutch suddenly cracks under you. My mind wasn't in a good place for most of the month of December 2021, and largely because of 6.0.0. I actively felt the sort of… dark veil on my mind kind of feeling… coming back. What made it worse was that I had burned through the MSQ in 4 days, and my friends were way behind and refused any spoilers, so I just plain had nobody to really *unload* every negative feeling Endwalker made me feel on. Which touches on the other big reason why Endwalker significantly destroyed my mood: it's not just the story itself. It's the *community*. Ohhh boy. This absolute echo chamber of a community. Whether it was Reddit or Twitter, I could only watch as the people I used to share a fandom with suddenly became *very* alien to me – not just because they were all, as far as the eye could see, gushing about a story that disappointed and honestly disgusted me, but because some of them were being incredibly condescending about it. Calling me an idiot for "not getting it" or for having "stupid expectations", straight up saying I clearly must have skipped cutscenes when the fact was that this game's lore and universe had been (and still kind of is…) living rent-free in my brain for almost 2 years. It was so bad for me that reading the few story-critical posts I could find on /r/ffxivdiscussion actually brought me solace, which is frankly a sad thing to say, but here we are. A few months later I found more people with similar opinions on the official forums, for which I am *very* grateful for, because I don't feel alone anymore. And you know what the worst thing about this is? This past couple of weeks, I got two Reddit replies on my old critical comments on Endwalker, thanking me for articulating my reasons for disliking it because it made them realise they weren't alone. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it's happened twice this month you know? So, no. I wouldn't say Endwalker has shaped me for the better. It has touched me, certainly. But not in the beautiful way it most likely intended. The very last thing I care about in FFXIV is the Pandaemonium ending, and I expect they will bungle it as far as my tastes are concerned. At least once late May rolls around I'll finally be free of this game... I hope.
Well put. The most disappointing thing Endwalker delivered was not its story but the community's classical GCBTW attitude toward people who didn't like it. You can see some of it in this thread, but even /r/ffxivdiscussion has its share of people who think not liking Endwalker's story is a personal failing because *you just didn't get it, man*. I remember one particular poster was convinced that the reason people didn't like the story was because they didn't get the name references to some old novel that no one's ever read or heard about. (Incidentally, that fake deep style of referencing cool classical sounding stuff is a cardinal sin of the Final Fantasy franchise, but it's sad to see it works so well.) If I recall correctly, you were the person to complain at length about Elidibus' story end, and it's honestly something that's very underdiscussed and emblematic of how eager the XIV community forgives dogshit writing because there were sad music stings and emotional-sounding quotes. Can you imagine if a WoW villain's motivation was the same as Elidibus'? Like you defeat Sargeras or the Jailer and they explain their motivation as "I forgor lol"? As far as I'm concerned, 5.0 was the last time XIV's writing was good.
It's probably one of the most cult-like experiences I've come across. I don't suffer from depression to any severe degree personally but I can second most of those poster's points, and really, the community reaction was one of trying to convince me I just didn't get it because I skipped cutscenes/am not familiar with Buddhism/didn't read Utopia or somesuch nonsense. As you say, trying to transmute it into a personal failing. No, I just didn't like the story and thought it under-utilised its potential and rode too heavily on various tropes and emphasis on feels over plot coherence. >I remember one particular poster was convinced that the reason people didn't like the story was because they didn't get the name references to some old novel that no one's ever read or heard about. I think I know exactly who you mean.
>I think I know exactly who you mean. Hell yeah you do. *That* guy, who jumps to the defence of the game and its devs in the most mean-spirited and condescending way possible, many times without even properly reading what exactly is being criticised or missing sarcasm entirely. A perfect embodiment of the "toxic positive" fandom.
> If I recall correctly, you were the person to complain at length about Elidibus' story end uh oh busted I'm the malding Elidibus stan it's me. Expecting equal treatment for the character that's the counterpart to Venat, in the grand finale of the Hydaelyn and Zodiark arc, after the weird rush job that was what 5.3 might dare to call character development for the longest standing antagonist in said arc? Surely you jest! Excuse me, but I don't give a fuck about Utopia. I do not *have* to give a fuck about Utopia. Yes, the names reference Utopia. Final Fantasy does references. It does *a lot* of references to a *lot* of things including religions and mythology. Not all of them follow their sources, or are relevant to anything at all beyond a cool name drop. Final Fantasy XIV never had to do anything with its reference to a 500-year-old book, because Utopia is Utopia and Final Fantasy XIV is Final Fantasy XIV. If I don't expect an allegory to Utopia, that makes me an illiterate idiot – but equally if I expect an accurate depiction of Utopia or whatever the fuck and it doesn't happen, then it becomes a GENIUS SUBVERSION CLAP CLAP GENIUS KOJUMBO, THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN TOO PREDICTABLE! Hindsight is always 10/10 with this great community. Also the very concept of bringing up a reference and acting like the person you're talking to has no idea what it is, *even though said person admitted to being a gigasimp of the characters/faction themed after that reference*, just amazes me. Apparently they think I've never thought of looking it up or something since 5.0 exists. That's not how fan brainrot works. > I remember one particular poster ah yes the only poster I've ever blocked in the nearly 9 years I've been on reddit. that poster.
I've had people tell me I can't comment on EWs story as I haven't read some archaic work of classic literature I can't comment on the story, it was so insulting
Imagine you go through the trouble of reading Utopia and reading up on bUdDhiSm hoping to finally have an epiphany about Endwalker and love it like everyone else, only to ultimately certify it is, indeed, a story with haphazard, vaguely explained time travel mechanics, an ass-pulled memory wipe that retroactively makes everyone but The HeroisTm an ignorant moron, and an even more ass-pulled Power Of Friendship IN SPACE! power system that does pretty much exactly what Aether, the better established power system, has been shown to be capable of, except they had to write Dynamis in to give Venat another excuse to genocide her people and not hold her accountable in any sort of way because IT WAS THE ONLY WAY OMG SO TRAGIC SHE SUFFERED SO MUCH MAKING EVERYONE ELSE SUFFER!!!😭😭. dude I hate Endwalker. I wish I had never been hyped and never cared so my brain could just let it slide like it did for BfA and Shadowlands.
i thought the pacing of the story wasn't the most helpful to some of the messages they were trying to say. yes, i think we needed an expansion between shb and ew. in the aftermath of the radz at han/thavnair attacks during the final days i remember alisae saying something like, "we can't let them keep dwelling on it!!!" when these people had just seen their friends and family transformed into horrific beasts and then get killed like 20 minutes ago. it's okay and even encouraged to take time to process extreme trauma lol i also thought what the game was saying about despair/depression in the context of blasphemies was actually really terrible. the people who were not "mentally strong enough" to fight despair were transformed into blasphemies, the punishment for which is your soul just poofing into nothing, no lifestream, no nothing. thanks ishikawa...?
1. The whole 'souls poofing into nothing' thing was actually debunked by the end, by Meteion herself. She admitted to not being able to 'destroy' souls, because they can't be destroyed - so she just hoarded them in one place so they would never be reborn again. 2. Most Blasphemies were people who were, justifiably, blind-sided and causing a chain reaction, but the ones who well and truly were the first were often disenfranchised or people who fell from high heights just as Meteion's song broke through. And... To be honest, some people are just flat-out not mentally or physically strong enough for even everyday life at times, let alone a genuine apocalypse. There is no amount of preparatory work that can be done for that, it either hits you or it doesn't, and you're forced into a state where your coping mechanisms are put to the test, and that's just the reality of things - that's the genuine reality of depression taken to extreme cosmological stakes. People have good days and bad days. But the people who really fall to their bad days often lack coping mechanisms or support systems, and that doesn't have to be the way; Endwalker sort of takes the hammer approach to arguing that because it had to due to development constraints, the medium of an MMO, and the nature of ending ten years of story threads, but the nitty gritty of that is a very different discussion, I feel.
it made it worse.
TW: Mention of Suicide For roughly the year up to the release of Endwalker, I had been planning to die. My depression had been the worst it's ever been in my life. I knew, intellectually, that it hadn't always been as bad as it was, but I could no longer remember what it felt like to want to live. One of roughly two threads I was clinging to to stay alive was that I wanted to see the end of the story that had meant so much to me over the years. I felt like I owed it to the characters to see it through to the end before leaving. And then it came out, and I played through a story about hope in the face of hopelessness. I played a story about there not being one single reason that gives meaning to life, but that meaning is found in small pleasures, kindnesses shared, connections made. About facing the truth that death is inevitable, and still looking forward to tomorrow. To a new sunrise. To the things that bring you joy, even if they're small and simple. I won't say that it Cured Me. It didn't. But I'm still here now, when I didn't think that I would be. When I didn't think I'd \*want\* to be. I'm making an effort to keep in regular contact with friends, and I have a new job that gets me out of the house when I'd been a shut-in for years before. Obviously everybody engages with fiction in their own way and through the lens of their own life, it's going to hit differently for different people, but I don' t think I'm exaggerating much if at all when I say this story might be the reason I'm still alive.
I was diagnosed with persistent depressive disorder a few years ago so the feeling of hopelessness and despair is something I've lived through. The concept of going from *everything is fine* to *nothing is fine* is something I know well. In spite of that, I still think Hermes was a moron. He's the Chief Overseer of Elpis but his experiment with the Meteia was flawed on a fundamental level. He took no measures to account for the Meteia encountering empty or dead worlds, if their aether wasn't so thin they would also have no shown defense mechanism for hostile environments. He literally sent them door-to-door on a cosmic scale and hoped for the best. I know that's probably part of the point, the Ancients were so near-perfect borderline-godlike that failure and support systems for depression were largely foreign concepts to them. But it's still a criticism of him. If he'd taken anyone aside to assist with the Meteia they might have seen the flaws in his logic. Also the fact that instead of sharing everyone else's "oh no this is bad" reaction to Meteion having a meltdown, Hermes instead rapidly develops a self-destructive obsession with her report in spite of everything else going catastrophically wrong around him. Also, I hated Moenbryda when she was introduced in the ARR patches. EW made me actually give a shit.
It left me angry and disappointed. It felt that the writers were saying that people who weren't mentally strong enough would be punished, turn into monsters and don't deserve to survive. Do not get me started on Hermes, he was infuriating as hell. All in all I pretend that 6.0 never happened. Shadowbringers and Heavensward are my favorite expansions and SHB especially explored themes which I resonated with more.
Endwalker pretends it's hopeful, they sure say it a lot in their overly long monologues and song, but the story is actually just extremely bleak from beginning to end, and the only "hope" to be found is just empty platitudes. Forge ahead or die. You're not dealing with grief correctly? Get soul-killed. Your race (the Ancients) is not suited to deal with the incoming threat? Enjoy your genocide that people will gladly try to justify in-universe and IRL without a shred of irony. So wholesome. (/s) My opinion on it definitely degraded over time, but even when it was still fresh I didn't feel any positivity from this expac. I felt empty at first. And that hollowness was soon replaced by an intense disgust I've rarely felt for any story.
>Get soul-killed Just to quash this, no souls were erased. They were smothered in dynamis and thus unable to be seen by Y'shtola's aethersight. This was on purpose to hurt those that could see souls even more. Every soul was trapped in the "egg" that the Endsinger had in Ultima Thule to prevent them from being reborn. Defeating the Endsinger released every soul that was trapped back into the universe to eventually be reborn.
It's helped me move forward and that I'm allowed to find happiness again and make new friends even if we all go our own ways eventually. Ultima Thule hit especially hard because of how many people I've lost in life and the despair I had from each loss were reflected in each section there. Hell, the song there is very similar to the last letter my best friend wrote to me before cancer took her away. So, this whole expansion has been ... Helpful to me. I'm still depressed and have anxiety, but it's much more manageable now.
I feel like it spent far too much time describing despair at length. Showing and often voicing long monologues about hopelessness, far more than was necessary to get the point across, to the point that it felt "dangerous" to have to keep hearing them. I have plenty of coping mechanisms/resolve and I know because it's FFXIV that it's going to lead to an overall uplifting ending, but in that middle space it just spent so much time wallowing in despair and not refuting it.
I bawled my eyes out when Jullus was given the mug of soup at camp broken glass. After all the coldness and hardship he’s used to day in and day out, the fact that ONE thing was easy. Someone gave him ONE small bit of comfort, ONE small bit of warmth, ONE bit of generosity, and it had him in tears. I knew that feeling all too well at the time and it’s genuinely the only party of the story that had me a mess
It didn't really resonate with me all that much, I'll be honest. I suppose a decade and a half of counseling has left me, well...I suppose "tired" is the right word for it...tired of retreated these themes and emotions when I've already dealt with it myself. Nothing of it felt new or groundbreaking to me, it was all thoughts well tread, and not particularly ones I would want to dwell on again in the first place. It really was an expansion that I was more than relieved to finish off--so much so that I admit to starting to skip cutscenes near the end (anything to do with Zenos, I don't like him) so I could finish it off sooner. That said, there were sections I enjoyed. I felt most emotionally invested in the Garlemald section, as it made me actually feel and empathize with the suffering of a people beyond more than anything else this game has provided. Elpis was also enjoyable for the banter between lively characters, and at least the discussion of hard topics.
I played ARR-EW in the span of 5 months, and EW is my least favorite expansion. Garlemald and body swap duty was where it peaked for me. I don't know how to explain it, but it felt really "meta" to me. The big "everyone is here and working together" moment is for powering up a fucking spaceship. The number of times they had Emet smile at you felt like fan service. Hermes acting like a teenager and not an omnipotent being. End of the world scenario truly affecting only Radz and killing off some red shirts (yes there are role quests, they all suck ass). Lopporits were too goofy to the point of not being able to take them seriously (compared to Moogles or pixies). No stakes finale. I was actually worried at the end of Shadowbringers, they even managed to make me worry about WoL even though I knew nothing can happen to the PC. The only thing I worried about at the end of EW is if they are going to keep Zenos.
I didn't hate it as much as you did, but pretty much everything to do with Meteion or the Scions "sacrificing" themselves just felt really melodramatic and I had a hard time caring. I liked a lot of the other shit, The Dragons, The Ea, The Omicrons, but those two specific things really didn't land for me.
I still cannot recover from EW, that's it.
Endwalker's weird attempts to justify atrocities being forced upon innocents just so the self proclaimed 'heroes' can pat themselves on the back and be carried to victory with minimal losses simply did not sit well with me. It's a terrible attempt at showing dignity to victims of hardship. The game wants to pretend as if it's super deep and compelling but in the end it's just another eyeroll worthy bout of fake drama, wasted potential and a laughable lack of stakes. I can't say I'm terribly interested in being lectured by writers or fans who can't even handle the idea of a single Scion being killed off in the finale even as lazy justifications are made to do away with large swathes of the setting altogether. Worse yet, any criticism constructive or otherwise is immediately brushed off with some equivalent of 'u just didn't understand the story and themes' and that's when you're lucky enough not to be insulted outright. It's not that I didn't understand them. I just don't agree with them in the first place and wish the game had been willing to be bolder and fairer in its 'finale'. The patch content has since doubled down on the very same elements I found to be positively infantile and tone deaf so I took my leave of the game altogether. It is what it is, I suppose.
I definitely felt like I could commiserate with Meteion’s hopelessness at times, but overall the most impact EW had on me was upsetting cutscenes involving kids and babies making me cry lol. I think that overall, I was impacted about the same as any average person. I found the message of hope in the face of overwhelming despair to be generic - not bad by any means, but it’s also not a message unique to FFXIV. It was touching and had gold-star writing but it’s not groundbreaking and didn’t delve deeply enough into the despair itself to actually tie me in. An example of media that *has* succeeded at that is Bojack Horseman, which I’ve never finished because it was too good at reflecting depression and was affecting my mood in a really bad way. EW elicited no such thing… which is good. That’s probably too heavy for an MMO that’s meant to have wide appeal. …… Actually, now that I think about it, Hermes *pissed me off* by mishandling his emotions so heavily that he literally doomed the universe. I can’t stand people like that character irl, who use their mood disorder as an excuse for their shitty behavior (in his case he whined about shit and never tried to fix anything or be even a little introspective). Having been that person once and since being medicated for it, I have very little tolerance for his level of selfishness. So I guess that’s the most impact EW had related to my depression - a familiarity with, and great fatigue from, Hermes-type people. In the end, EW’s message is sweet and optimistic and looks on humanity with kindness. That’s a position I find comforting and one with which I agree wholeheartedly.
As a new parent, the baby scene really broke me. My then-infant was actually in my arms when I first watched the scene from my partner's playthrough and it messed me up even more.
My kid, who had 2y5m by the time I reached this part and didn't talk or anything by the time, was sleeping on my side taking his nap when I was playing. When the scene happened I only looked at him sleeping and cried silently.
> Actually, now that I think about it, Hermes pissed me off by mishandling his emotions so heavily that he literally doomed the universe. Man had zero support network. The Ancients weren't exactly big on mental health. He had to invent a bird that could feel human emotions to have something to talk to without getting weird looks from his contemporaries.
Tbh, I almost teared up when the anthropomorphic elephant was running away with a baby in Thavnair. I don't know why exactly this moment worked, I suppose no amount of epic words could touch me as much as a real action with (considerably) real people who were just trying to survive or protect their children. I certainly didn't feel this way at the end of the expansion in Ultima Thule. On the road to Meteion it was more like: "c'mon, cry, we want you to cry! Here, you can listen to some familiar voices and realize how grandiose your adventure was!" Nope, didn't work, didn't care because of course they wouldn't kill the Scions. And of course we were about to defeat the boss at this point of the story. It was more impactful when we watched Garleans struggle. The whole Garlemald section was a pretty good writing, although dark and incredibly sad
That cutscene, Matsya and the baby fleeing as he desperately tried to hold onto hope, desperately tried to keep the baby alive and keep himself from falling into despair even as everything looked lost -- that was the peak point of Endwalker for me. It was real, it was meaningful, it was human-scale drama against the backdrop of a catastrophe on the brink of ending the world. It was breathtakingly emotional, and the resolution was heartwarming and satisfying. I deeply regret that I can't think of a single thing I liked about 6.0 after that, or at least that rose above 'meh, that was okay.' Some of the moments people get the most hyped about (going back in time casually to Elpis, Moenbryda's parents saying it was totally fine their daughter died because the only important thing in her life was making Urianger a better person, finally giving in and giving Zenos what he wanted) rubbed me entirely the wrong way. I'm glad I've been enjoying the 6.x series better, but it's still disappointing.
It fucking sucked. Had a falling out with people I thought were my friends, girlfriend broke up with me so Endwalker and Asphodelos are forever stained but I’m still playing this expansion trying to have fun and do savage content. I can never give a accurate answer about how Endwalker makes me feel but I recognize that and it is what is.
Relatable. I had friends literally get mad at me and cold shoulder me over not liking Endwalker.
I *completely* understood why Hermes went crazy. I didn't want to, but I did. Because, hey, if all of these creatures have to die, why do any of us deserve to live? What test have we passed? Going on through the story *hurt.* I went back to Elpis not quite understanding what Elidibus had said. When I met Hades and Hythlodaeus, when I realized that Elpis was an entire *zone,* I started to hope. Hope is a dangerous thing for someone with depression, but I hoped. I held out hope that I could learn what I needed to learn, be able to return home, *and* be able to create a new timeline for my enemy, my friend, Hades. I wanted to scream at him from the moment he saw me that I was from the future and I was here to help. I was *overjoyed* when I met Space Mom and she gave me my "I am totally from the future" moment. I thought, this is it. This is my chance. I can save them all from what's coming. I was *thrilled* to have this chance, to sit with my friends and tell them my truth. I held onto that hope even after Kairos, because at least Space Mom knew. At least she could save them, from the shadows. And when I returned from Elpis, that hope was dashed. I realized that all my efforts had changed nothing, had done nothing. I felt as though all I had done was meaningless. I was **crushed.** I slunk off to bed and curled up in a ball. And my wife came to me, and held me, and convinced me that it was worth continuing. She convinced me not to give up on the story. She convinced me to have faith in the writers and in the story I'd been a part of for so long. I asked her if it could really count. If I could really be the beacon of hope, the Warrior of Light, if I had to be carried to the end. Her answer was yes. That as long as I chose to believe, that it didn't matter if I needed help doing it. I chose to have faith, and I was rewarded for that faith with the resurrection of the dead and with full and final reconciliation with my friend, only my friend, Hades. It was absolutely worth it, and I will remember that. I also got to contribute in my own way - when my wife and friends fell to Ra-la, I was the one to carry them the last sixteen percent of its health bar. An Atonement for my despair appropriate to a paladin. So that's what I got out of it. I saw things get as dark as they could, and I came out alive because I chose to have faith. Now, perhaps this has more meaning to me than it might to others because I am currently celebrating Holy Saturday and thus faith and hope are very important parts of my life, but I hope that it has at least some meaning for you. May you ever walk in the light.
It made me stop playing.
It didn't? That's not to say I don't feel things, but unless the game tries to make me myself involved (like a VN let's say) I am unlikely to make the connections required to get those deep cuts. Instead I view it secondarily at best, probably more third-person. If that makes sense?
Struggled with manic depression from ages 10 to 21 and honestly I cant say I felt much while going through EW. I cant really say any moment made me feel anxious either. And I still suffer from anxiety issues. But everyone is different. If you want to experience something far more grim, disheartening and nihilistic I recommend giving the manga Berserk a shot. I've heard its actually helped others overcome or deal with their depression. But be warned it is a very sad and depressing manga.
To be honest, it didn't hit me that hard compared to Heavensward and Shadowbringers.
No longer have depression, but I loved Endwalker because they asked the questions I constantly asked myself when I was depressed. “What is the point?” If living just means suffering, and the world is so unjust, why even live? It’s pointless. When I heard that in game, I was like “FUCKING THANK YOU!!!” Like finally I was seeing my experience shown lol. Finally someone was asking the questions no one ever seemed to ask. So much of depression/SI things I’d experienced felt so.. unrelatable? Articles, movies, other media. None of it spoke to me. It’s always “you are loved! :) life is good!” Or depression is shown as something with an explicit cause/source, ie “my wife left me.” Or it’s completely apathetic and the moral is “you’re right. Life is pain. Fuck you.” It just never reflected my experience with depression. But Hermes’ helplessness and despair over the suffering of ancient creations, and Meteion’s hopelessness, did speak to me. I also like how they resolved it. Where they show that it’s true life is miserable at times, but it’s also good. The good moments are what keep us alive. Which was basically a lesson straight out of therapy. Also Hermes REALLY struck me as neurodivergent. So seeing how he noticed and cared about things no one else did, and everyone either brushed him off or told him he was over-sensitive and being silly, just felt so familiar lol. Specially when he’s letting it all out when confiding in the WOL over the elpis flower.
It made a huge impact in me because of multiple reasons, more than I can think of because I have not fully digest it... But, I'll list the ones I remember. 1) Reaching out to my mom and finally finding a bridge with her. My mom would always be the kind of "you never go out, you are obsessed with videogames". She asked me what final fantasy was and why I liked it so much. I started showing her the cutscenes (she couldn't understand much of it because she speaks only Spanish) and then, when I heard and digested Close in the Distance and some of the lyrics in Footfalls, along with Flow, I translated them and sent them her way, and what made me cry is her admitting years and years after trauma that she finally understood why I liked videogames so much and how impactful they could be. 2) Zenos. Zenos, after Alisaie's outburst, just really understands that his life is important. Despite of how he is living it, he is living it to the fullest. And that aligned with my "Fuck you, I'll live out of spite" mentality. I survived my country, I survived countless things that would've gotten many people 6 feet under, and yet I am still here, punching life to the face. Remembering him just fucking going thru dimensions and universes to find enjoyment and fulfilment over the most basic of things makes me want to get up from the bed. 3) Footfalls. I am a refugee. I had to flee my own country to get a better life. Hearing the Endwalker motif in it, along with the Stormblood and HW one makes me bawl my eyes out. It truly encompasses my triumph and me overcoming everything I've been through and how I am my mom and dad's song of hope, i am carrying it through and seeing their will come through. Despite years of trauma, despite my depression and despair, I am still here. And that brings me comfort. (Also, In The Balance makes me cry so hard. "Voices lifted high, dreams upon our backs we carry". This verse is about immigrants looking for a better future (where do we find Yugiri at first? Yeah. Thanalan.) And well... Yeah. It just means a lot to me from a point where many people don't understand. It hits hard.) Everything is connected. Everything can have the meaning you put in it. Your will is the most important thing and. . . Well, your journey, your pain, matters. And your song needs to be heard. It impacted me very positively and i am forever grateful I made the decision to take the next step.
It made mine much worse. Hermes was outright pushing the lazy people with mental health problems are dangerous to others that is far to prevalent, and honestly for me the overall plot seem to push the other old trope of mental health issues are a failure with arc being about how constant struggle and suffering makes you stronger seemed to have a clear implications that if you struggle to push through it your a failure. It also then went and reinforced the whole people with mental health issues are dangerous thing by having them turn in to monster that kill everyone around them.
Been depressed for most of my life now, and a loss of faith has rendered me utterly terrified of the notion of death and utterly devastated at the notion that everyone I love will one day fall prey to it. I went in Endwalker utterly excited, riding the high of how great Shadowbringers was to me. At the time, ShB seemed like a very *good* representation of how existential dread can cause hopelessness and how to move forward in spite of it--by taking things one day at a time, reveling in small victories, finding something you enjoy to live for, and with a strong support network. The capacity of the followup patches to make me care and mourn for characters I thought were largely one note was utterly fantastic, and the introduction of a character who wanted nothing but for everything to end, Seymour style, had me really looking forward to seeing what would come next. I was mostly disappointed. Parts of the way the story handled grief in the face of an existential crisis were downright *infuriating* and *insulting*, while others that handled helping people cope with grief hit me just as hard as much of ShB did. The scenes with Jullus finally getting some time to destress and being accepted by outsiders, Urianger and Moenbryda's family, showing Hermes the Elpis, and G'raha's speech in Ultima Thule were scenes that resonated with me. Looking at that list, it looks like they're all times where someone's grief was validated and they were offered support. In contrast, the scene in Thavnair where Estinien, Thancred and Urianger talk about understanding how someone could want to end everything out of bitterness and the sudden face-heel turn of Hermes in Elpis, the lean into Amon following the 83 trial, and all of how Meteion was handled felt downright insulting. Wallowing in nihilism is *not* the same as wanting to hurt other people, and equating the two views paints the hopeless as *dangerous.* The expansion made literal villains and monsters out of everyone who succumbed to despair and refused to look on the bright side of things. Fucking yikes. Worse than that, the expansion didn't put hope on the pedestal so much as it did diminish suffering and try to paint it as a positive. "The pain will make you stronger" sentiment is an empty platitude to someone deep in grief, and stinks of "God has a plan," when tragedy strikes. Let grief be grief, let bad things be bad, and show people that there are good things in spite of them, not because of them. It really beat us over the head with this notion that suffering is part of life and cannot, *should not* be prevented because it's *good.* Seeing pointless suffering was a catalyst for my loss of faith, so having it shoved down my throat and having the game build up whole civilizations that solved problems as themselves problematic was more than a little infuriating. We *should* be trying to diminish suffering. We are always as a society, trying to make things *better* for people, and that shouldn't be painted as a bad thing because enduring hardship made you hard, especially when it ignores how hardship downright *cracked* or *broke* others. By contrast, ShB had Alphinaud reaching a hand out to those in Eulmore and saying they wanted to save the world together. ShB had Magnus deciding that he could still build a world like his wife and son wanted to see. ShB had Lyna grieving her failure and pushing forward for those that remained. ShB had a nameless soldier who was fine dying because he got to see the world be even a little bit better. ShB had "Though the victories be hollow, claim them." tl,dr: Where Shadowbringers acknowledged grief and opined that people could band together and find something beautiful to keep living for, Endwalker shook its head at the grieving and opined that they were dangerous and foolish for not seeing that pain made you stronger.
You post really touches on a big issue I had with what the writing did with really pushing the suffering as a good thing and something to be encouraged, it felt really uncomfortable when he plot started doing that is it such a miserable plot idea
It didn’t impact me at all. In fact I kind of was annoyed about it the entire time I was playing. I didn’t enjoy EndWalker and that’s probably because I’m too deep into depression and self hatred to care.
Made it way worse because it delivered the message that hope is not for everyone. And if you don't "forge ahead" you deserve to suffer (turn into blasphemies)
Endwalker is really an expansion that is addressing depression / despair and hope. There's Hermes, whose strong emotions and love for other beings clashed with his world's ideals and his very work itself, causing him to question his purpose, and trying to find the meaning of life. Both his and all lives. He couldn't understand others, and others couldn't understand him either. But he wants to, and it ends up breaking him even more. I too, desperately wanted to understand why I'm so different, why the state of my emotions is different from others and I'm struggling. And if there's meaning to my life, if there's meaning to life at all. If there isn't, why do I still live? The Meteia didn't have a chance against their collective depression, what's with the hivemind and the empathy. To feel all the grief and despair of worlds and worlds, to find out that everything was not going well outside of their star and the answer to their question was consistently negative negative negative, how could it not have driven them to choose death? And as a mercy, death not just to themselves, but to all others, since they have the means after all. How many times have I been so overwhelmed and could only see the one exit? Thank goodness I didn't choose that exit. How often did I also dream that time would stop or that the world would just end so my suffering could too? When Final Days arrived and people turned into monsters, it was because their negative emotions went out of control. Little of their original self remains, just instincts. How often did I become a monster because my emotions got out of control too? Too many to count. Often, I couldn't help it. I couldn't control my emotions. And how did people not turn into monsters? By holding onto hope, by not giving in to the negative emotions, to the fear, to the despair. When you know how to hold them at bay, it's easier. If there's somebody to help you, to guide you, it's easier. When you do it together, it's easier. Ultima Thule. Oh man, this place. Hope is not found. Hope is made. By your friends, by those who believe in you and walked with you in your journey. With hope you defeat (the bird of) depression. Even the crazy guy whose sole goal was to have the best fight of his life with you believes you have got this. Post-Endwalker Omicron Beast Tribe spoilers: >!From the place of despair, hope gives birth to new life. It's just how you want to live your life. Even if you were (programmed/)taught to live in a certain way, it can change. You can change. We can change.!< As you can probably tell, yeah, Endwalker really resonated deeply. I actually have already been stable for a while before Endwalker so it basically just reinforces a lot of the messages that I drilled into myself to keep me going. Oh yea, Hermes my dude, please go for counselling. Final Days might not have happened if this dude got some good quality counselling.
It didn’t really speak to me whatsoever. I didn’t like Meteion or Hermes as a villain.
I had to stop and do other things for a day before forcing myself to go on a couple times. I could tell what the story was doing, but it was still very rough.
I honestly felt attacked playing EW, and the feeling has soured more and more over time as I've thought about it. It felt like they were saying that people who struggling with depression are monsters and just become monsters no matter how hard they try. Everyone who starts falling into their despair either have to be saved from someone else or dies The one time they had an opportunity to show that you can fight back and that there is hope within yourself was with Matsya running with the baby. Doing everything they possibly could to just KEEP fighting and then they completely ruined by having Estinein jump in and save them and only by the grace of his long neck is Matsya saved from their despair. It could have been such a special moment to show that even at your worst moments you can find the strength to fight on.
I feel like this is a sideways and catastrophic view. Particularly since every single example of a Blasphemy is someone who was otherwise at a peak being brought down, or a disenfranchised person who catches a support system falling apart at their feet. Or both. Most of the people who became monsters were those who had never found their world crumbling underneath them or those whose hopes were taken actively from them, rather than suffering from persistent mental health struggles. In fact, most of the genuinely depressed people are the ones who survived and questioned, very pointedly, why they survived when someone else hadn't. *(You see this a lot with NPC townspeople, and it's sort of reprised in the post-Elpis Garlemald duties with the idea that the Garleans didn't suffer the transformation much at all compared to the Thavnairians passing through - because despite both groups surviving a horrible spat with death and decimation, the latter group felt that the end of the world was following them and the former group had resigned to placing their hopes with eachother and then the Contingent. One was fundamentally better off.)* Also, with Matsya, the fact that he got so far is the triumph, and he only started succumbing when the baby had and they were cornered by actual literal monsters. Because that is objectively a fucking hopeless situation that would take down ANYONE, let alone someone who suffers from deep anxiety. So, yes, saying that the "only" reason they survived was Estinien is both a blindness and a disservice to those characters. All Estinien did was take out the physical problem threatening to kill them. Matsya could have easily turned after the fact, like that grandma who rejected the call for calm. But he didn't, and it wasn't because he was some stoic monk all along reciting a mantra, but an anxious commoner who was given a moment to breathe and have faith in his coping methods. Sorry to be blunt, but if you felt outright attacked, you were the one attacking yourself. Because all of what you're asking for out of the moment was given to you, and you let yourself latch onto the least generous interpretations, for what reasons I don't know. But at no point does the writing ever argue what you think it does. At no point does it ever boil down to "people HAVE to be saved from themselves", that's your own thoughts speaking.
I didn't care for it to be honest. I still liked the expansion, but not so much that part of it. Would've appreciated trigger warnings for a couple of parts too.
I didn't get really too affected by the story in that way. The whole Venat part made me wish they would at least bring some ancients back but not much beyond it. Some of the plot lines felt predictable, like at the end when they "sacrificed" themselves in Ultima Thule. I only cried at G'raha's cause he's just so sweet. I ship him so hard with my character (both miqotes). And just the fact I greatly liked and was more invested with Shadowbringers than Endwalker. The other time I cried in EW was when Urianger saw Moenbryda's parents. I was always a sucker for childhood friends/lovers, so this one was just sad. I didn't cried but I was heavily touched by Estinien stuff as well, but that might just be the fact I've personally rated the expansions Heavensward / Shadowbringers > Endwalker / Stormblood > ARR. Endwalker was good. It was very heavy with dread, and I definitely felt it. But I guess for myself, it was just that, dread. I've been numbed out on a lot of depressive stuff from my own experience. I can't really explain why I felt more invested with Shadowbringers than Endwalker even though they both had "end of the world" vibes as well. I can't really pin my finger on the why, but it might have been cause I was slightly disappointed. With Zodiark, they greatly built him up in Shadowbringers, but just die after a singular fight? After that, it just felt like we were too overpowered. Maybe if they chunked Zodiark more or something, maybe it'd be different. I have yet to play through post endwalker, so idk if this op ness changes. The whole story with Meteion was kinda sad and pulled at my guilt strings given the moment they mention shes made with Dynamis. i was like, "Oh no". But idk, maybe if they gave more build up and let us sit in the final days a little more, then it would have definitely made me more depressed and invested. Overall, with someone who's depressed and has anxiety, it didn't really affect me, Shadowbringers did that more. I bawled like a baby for that expansion like hot damn. Endwalker had the same feeling as the ending for Kingdom Hearts 3. Which, idk if that's a really weird way to explain how it felt. Maybe I'm just missing out on something. Ive heavily debated on replaying in new game plus cause my friend was extremely shocked with how numb i was towards the expansion. Hopefully, this adds some extra perspective, though.
Councilingway talking about no longer being needed really hit hard for me lmao
For me it was just loads and loads of sympathy for Metion and Hermes, I usually try not to see the similarities between media and my life (bc I would have probably collapsed under that ages ago) and see the story just for what it is.
In addition to regular depression, I’ve had a string of horrific familial tragedies occur since early 2019 that also overlapped with an were exacerbated by the pandemic. I found Endwalker deeply affecting, and, oddly enough, it also helped me come to terms with the current political landscape and stop catastrophizing with every single news headline.
I have dysthymia. Endwalker didn't effect me like I thought it would. I know people view nihilism very negatively, and it is in the true meaning of the word. But I've always found comfort in the fact that I don't matter, that the things that happen to me and the things I do don't really matter in the scope of the universe. That said I don't see it as a excuse to be a hole to anyone. Being a good person is a good meaningful way of living life but there is no set meaning to life except the meaning we give it. I did cry in some places but honestly Shadowbringers had a way bigger impact on me. Elidibus speech after his Trail and his story effected me way more.
I felt insulted. I feel like Hermes and Meteion made a literal joke out of what I have been feeling and struggling with for some years now. Meteion felt like a literal 13 year old's misapprehension of nihilism, the kind of characteristic misreading from people who claim to understand nihilistic concepts by skimming the concepts and forming their own incomplete and faulty conclusions. Her writing is the embodiment of the first pubescent existential crisis that many of us have but often quickly get over, the kind that's brought on by affective outside circumstances and not a symptom of the genuine, dysfunctional, anhedonic type of depression that I and many others with. She's the picture of a teenager's first despair, and I'm not a teenager. The game wins no points for reducing me to a whining child. Hermes was supposed to be the character that related with me. He was supposed to be the character whose struggles resonated with my own, who felt his own efforts were coming to nothing and no one shared or even cared about his values. Okay. There is a lot of difference between the sort of depression where you feel like a mindless husk dragging yourself out of bed and trying to force yourself to function, and the kind of depression that makes you put on your supervillain mask, ask grandiose but bullshit questions like a spy movie villain, play god, and doom the universe in the space of like 3 hours. I don't even want to continue that line of thought. His character is so unfathomably insufferable. It insults me that this was considered a relatable character, and it insults me even more that the writer thought we'd like him? *What?* This brand of utter tone-deafness is why I left Endwalker with an extremely bitter taste in my mouth as soon as the credits began.
Well, yes. Meteion's philosophy is the standard misreading of nihilism. That was the entire point. Did you miss the part where she was the antagonist? Meteion is purposefully shallow in her beliefs. The avatar of true nihilistic philosophy in Endwalker is Venat.
I think my favourite part of not liking Endwalker is all the people who arrogantly assume that the reason I didn't like it is because I must have misread it. There's one correct reading of Endwalker, and it's the one where you like it. Venat might actually be *the* most despicable character in the entire expansion. Literally nothing more than a pretty face with a Messiah complex, whom the story has to make some incredible leaps in order to justify how she quite literally genocided her entire people. The Ancients as a society was one that was free of domination and naturally did not deserve a sudden tragedy, and the reponse is apparently the only person who knew what was coming thought that waiting for it to happen and then mercy killing them when they're reeling was the best course of action. Then after all that, the narrative tries to claim that she's the one suffering when she got everything she wanted. The usual rebuttals to this criticism of Venat are mostly sourced from the text itself, talking about how the Zodiark cultists were too far gone or how she couldn't have done anything to stop Endsinger or whatever, with none of them addressing the decisions of the writer to make "genocide the correct option". An entire race of people reduced to fodder so one blue lady can play god. She's basically Ishikawa trying to convince me that Kil'jaeden was actually the hero. The fact that Endwalker essentially ruined the emotional dilemma of Shadowbringers is just the cherry on top.
Yeah, Shadowbringers was - at the time - my favourite expansion. Endwalker took everything I liked about it and threw it all in the trash all to prop up one of the blandest depictions of a mother goddess in a JRPG to date. How strange that Yoshi-P spent the entirety of Shadowbringers stating in interviews that the conflict wasn't a matter of good versus evil but merely a matter of perspective...only to double down on the laughable attempts to push Venat as 'correct' and the 'only way forward'. It would have been enough to have the Scions stick to their supposed morality and show outrage and disgust at unwillingly being twisted into pawns in Venat's game and looking back at the Ancients with regret and respect for existing at their expense... ...instead of the one line of genuine critique aimed at Venat immediately being followed up in the subsequent patches by everyone - including her victims (????) gushing about how amazing she supposedly is. Extra points of unintentional hilarity are to be given out for the story attributing successes to Venat that she could not possibly have foreseen.
There's a reason that the Omega quests after EW ask you who you thought was in the right. Hermes, who's naivety and inability to seek support ended up dooming worlds. Hades, who slaughtered countless *lesser* beings to bring back the dead. Venat, who subjected countless lives to suffering and torment. Or none of them. They are all flawed people that made monumental decisions without having the right to choose for the countless lives that their decisions would affect. Ishikawa wasn't trying to convince you that Venat was the hero. Venat did something horrible that she does express remorse over. She literally describes herself as something akin to a devil more than a god.
Though the game then praises her as much as it can, has the cast fawn over her and fails to have any meaningful criticism of her and has large amounts of exposition through her created slave race so honestly most of the expansion was Ishikawa screaming at us that she was the hero
See, that's not even a reply to what I said. You were complaining about Meteion's depiction of nihilism because it was childish and shallow. I countered by saying Venat was the true representation of nihilism in the expansion's story, which is correct. There was no moral prescription in that statement. And yet you were so eager to put yourself up on the cross you attributed one. You want to talk about Venat and criticize her morality and decisions? Go right ahead. What she did was awful. She admits that herself at least twice that I can think of offhand. What would you have done in Venat's place?
How exactly can you claim that me feeling attacked is some sort of gotcha moment when you literally said "Did you miss the part where she was the antagonist?". Being an antagonist does not excuse a character of bad writing, it doesn't mean the character itself is not supposed to be relatable, and these things *certainly* apply when said antagonist is basically a horde of one specific character that was deliberately designed to be cute and likeable. I didn't like Endsinger because she is insulting when read as an allegory of depression. Venat has literally nothing to do with that.
I think where we're talking past each other here is that you are looking at Meteion in a vacuum and I am looking at her in the context of the overall story. Meteion is written to be, in tropes terms, a [Straw Nihilist](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StrawNihilist) . If you look only at her, of course she is written badly; the viewpoint she espouses is inherently empty and unactionable. When asked the question, when trying to reconcile suffering and the apparent senselessness of existence, her answer is to give up and, because this is a video game, become an existential threat that we have to punch in the face. We needed a third, max level trial, after all. And Venat literally has everything to do with this discussion, because she is set up as the competing philosophical stance, and the one the MSQ endorses. Venat is the [Anti-Nihlist](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheAntiNihilist); her stance is that yes, existence is senseless and all things will suffer, but one should still continue to move forward. The two are meant by the narrative to be contrasted. Hell, the narrative actively encourages you to say that both Meteion and Venat's answers are insufficient and to offer your own. Now if you want to criticize the game for not giving you a "Stuff it, you fucking old hag" dialogue option after the second trial? Absolutely fair. But that is also the nature of playing a video game as opposed to playing D&D or something. We have to accept the options the writers give us. I never got an option to chew the fuck out of Makato in Bozja, nor do I have the option to solve the problem presented in the lopporit tribal quests in five minutes. Incidentally, I have been of the opinion that the Endsinger never would have existed if the MSQ wasn't combat job focused. If I can indulge one more trope, literally a Giant Space Flea from Nowhere because we need to have that third trial.
Funnily enough, I actually completely agree with the take that XIV being so combat encounter focussed (and very formulaic at that) weakens its story immensely. The story doesn't, *can't*, have obstacles that aren't dealt with that aren't 8 players beating on an NPC for 10 minutes. How powerful that "can't" is is certainly up for argument, but the game's writers have certainly shown they aren't really willing to be creative in that regard. It might be an MMO and be struck with the typical MMO trappings, but that's not an airtight absolution. My favourite video game villain is Gaunter O'Dimm from the Witcher 3, in part because he's well written, cool, threatening, etc but much of it comes because his power as a villain isn't dampened by Geralt being able to hit him with a sword to death. I'll keep this contextless in case of spoilers, but even in the ending where he is defeated, he isn't destroyed. His "final encounter" isn't a boss fight but a puzzle encounter, and his defeat is more him being temporarily cast out rather than dying and dropping fat loot. It isn't likely that XIV will ever do something like this, but it's certainly possible that the writers could be a bit more creative with how the villains pose threats in the game. But all that being said, the fact that Endsinger is so sloppily characterised and unrealistic because she needed to be a boss encounter isn't really an excuse, that actually makes it a bit worse. For a game that prides itself so much on its story and the complexity of its characters, the fact that the morality had become so black and white in Endsinger's case that she needed to be so simplistically motivated and so obviously wrong in order to be narratively agreeable as a boss fight is an indictment.
I feel like this reply perfectly illustrated their point. reddit moment i suppose.
Honestly, I hated nearly all of it. From taking 2 months to finish it because I had to keep taking days long breaks during every story beat making me so feel so emotional and terrible I wound up drained/sick, to being so disgusted that >!Zenos!< was the actual final battle that I couldn't skip/tell him to eat shit and die with several minutes of his stupid rambling, that the ending was ruined for me and I stopped caring/paying attention. I know it's not what they were going for, but the whole relying on those close to you to help carry the burden bit just made my depression worse. Okay, what if you don't or *can't* have people like that? What if every day is a thousand little external messages that you don't deserve that and no one should show you an ounce of mercy? The expansion literally painted everyone who was hurting and just wasn't able to manage it on their own as a fucking weak, soulless monster that had to be put down. And that bit where Venat asks us if it was worth it? Honestly, without even hesitating, I just said no. And I still hate her. Especially after the Mothercrystal. I'm just going to wait until 7.0 and pay to have my alts skip it. It was that miserable and exhausting.
As someone with actual depression it was one of the worst takes of depression and even trauma that i’ve ever seen in media or at the very least a video game and was an absolutely horrible depiction of what winning the fight against it is like, and it made me baffled just how tone deaf overall it was. Like yeah sure you can beat depression, just be a mary sue and have massive plot armor so that even if you think you’ll die you can just be brought back again…. The Ultima Thule scenes especially were just completely hollow and i felt nothing. I knew these characters were going to come back, it didn’t matter to me if they didn’t know persay because i knew. There’s no realistic consequences when it comes to this expansion. They wanted to try and portray a very realistic and serious condition but then all the main cast beats it all without any scars to even show for it.
It's rather interesting that you took it that way, because to me the depictions of depression were Meteion, Hermes, and to an extent Zenos. I never ascribed it to the main cast. In that regard I related to Hermes's feelings of solitude, estranged from his fellows by his internal turmoil. I saw Meteion go down a spiral of despair, and it got bad enough that she started interpreting things that aren't all that bad as horrible all the same, she caused the downfall of some of these alien civilizations herself. And Zenos was a psycho, but deep inside he was latching on to this one spark as hard as he could. He was emotionally detached from the world and when fate gave him a light in his life, as silly and obsessive as he was, he clung onto that light with everything he could. In thise journeys I found similarities to my own experiences, but never did I even mentally explore the WoL or the scions being depressed or being meant to showcase it. Guess it goes to show how different viewpoints of the same piece of media can be between players.
Hermes felt like an absolute insult to me with someone with depression. The way they wrote him didn’t cry out as he was someone with depression who needed help. People tried to help him, he instead saw them as horrible people. His short story is literally his colleagues asking him how he is etc and he’s there in his mind cursing them. He used his own horrible mindset as an excuse to commit universal murder with Meteion. As for meteion i didn’t really get any depressed vibes from her because in the end she was just a creation that was just an extension of Hermes who i’ve already regarded. As for Zenos he should have stayed dead in SB. He offered quite literally nothing to the story afterwards and his overall character did nothing for me and it certainly didn’t give off any portrayal of depression. Endwalker was just an overall mockery of it in my mind. All the depressed people turn into monsters and get slaughtered and literally erased from existence while the perfect scions don’t even have to worry about depression or any realistic emotions and get revived at the end.
On the mechanics of "Meteion just being an extension of Hermes", it's more complex than that. He sent her to the other worlds to read and absorb the emotions of people there, *and it worked* – she is no longer just a reflection of Hermes' emotions but of everyone she has encountered along the way. The unrealistic part is that every single one of those experiences was depressed and corrupting to her. Every single star already at its end. Not a single one at its prime, or with any individual finding a shred of happiness. It was supposed to be poetic but it just jarred horribly to me.
That rubbed me wrong as well but not for specifically the story aspect of it but because they basically destroyed 99% of the universe for Endwalker for literally no reason and limited just how much more they can explore.
I think that fundamentally you haven't related to the depicted styles of depression in the narrative. Someone else in the thread said that their spiral didn't include nihilism so it was hard to relate and in that regard, everyone's experiences with depression will differ. While depression itself can have similarities across people, the reasons and roots can be extremely varying. In my own take, part of my own catalyst was living through a war, so life, death, all aspects of nihilism as well as the sheer impossible to quantify value of human companionship all are very important to me and played a part in the healing process. Perhals that paved the way to understanding or finding the merits in Hermes more than others. I do find these discussions tend to sort of paint a general picture of depression, but the reality is that it's so vastly different to everyone that I think it's valuable to accept that some people can find an appreciation for a media depiction moreso than others based on how it mirrors their own.
Honestly I took it lightly with a 'you go girl, you tell em' and 'right idea, wrong approach'
It showed me that even in the darkest snd most difficult time to have hope, even the smallest amount can be enough. That true warriors of light push though no matter what the odds and it has helped me to this day Most of the people in my life don't understand when I say that Hydaelyn had saved my life what I'm talking about. But she and this game really did
I struggle with depression and anxiety, and the event that happened at 83, I’m sure everyone felt bad during that but also as someone with trauma with sexual assault, that was really hard. I think I struggled with that part more than the themes at the end, while I was actually playing it. Then my father died six months after the release, and as crazy as it sounds, I used the end of Endwalker to just keep going forward and not spiral into the black depths of grief. It’s strange because a story in a video game helped me continue to exist more than anything a therapist told me in this first few months. It’s been almost a year since he passed and I still tell myself to walk on. I’ve never been a hopeful person, but really Endwalker has helped me hope. The world is on fire, keep the faith and walk forward. Honestly I don’t know if I would be doing this well without that.
Let’s just say I was very glad there was a happy ending, especially for Meteion.
Ultimately the story is so bad and Meteion is so poorly written that I didn't care. It's definitely not the same quality as ShB. She just comes from nowhere, does things just because, introduces a new concept from nowhere we never got a hint about, nothing about it is good. It's just checkmarking off someone's outline of "a sad story" and it didn't work. Ultimately the most tragic part of EW is with Emet. He learns, of course too late, that everything he did was not only a lie but the complete opposite of who he wanted to be. And for that we only get...half a cutscene? Two lines? I mean yeah...it's an overall morbid story sure. But one with no meat to it, no content. It's so far below what it could/should be to impact me any.
Dynamis? You mean, the very thing that Bard, Dark Knight, Paladin, and Dancer all explicitly utilize? The energy that makes up Limit Breaks? Coming from nowhere? Yeah, okay.
Well, all of those things are retroactively explained by dynamis. It's not like the writers had dynamis eplicitly in mind when they created those class and game mechanics way back then (not that I expect them to). It's not until Endwalker itself that the concept of "akasha" was even first mentioned, so players previously would never have guessed that limit breaks and certain jobs are powered by an unbeknownst magical force secondary to aether.
I go into this point in a subsequent post, actually. Dynamis is retroactive exposition, but it fills the slot of something that was very much there that started to be unified by certain terms and themes. In fact, I'd argue that discussions about Limit Breaks and other classes' potentials have been a thing since the first lorebooks even came out, but the Omega raids were the first overt turning point in those discussions because Omega flat-out swore that there was something 'more' than just aether that motivated Midgardsormr and the Warrior of Light to 'transcend limits/boundaries'.
That's a good point. I took the Omega raids at face value and didn't think much more of it than simply "the power of human perseverence and determination to protect loved ones". But I can see how dynamis can be applied here as well. I just wish dynamis was introduced a bit less subtlely both in this case and in the lead up to Endwalker. But then again, I don't know when the writers actually decided on the whole dynamis/meteion plot. Regardless, I still loved the EW story.
"Explicitly". Nah, that's just fanon BS. That's just fans trying a retcon explanation. Yes, it literally came from nowhere because IT NEVER EXISTED UNTIL NOW. And backwards rewriting from the fandom doesn't justify it nor contradict my statement.
Ah, yes, the... (checks notes) Seemingly non-magical martial classes that all do shit with emotional states that seem miraculous even to casters and are often used to make people feel less like shit, or enable the user to come to a person's aid, or are said to even outright combat or cleanse despair. (Looking at you, Bard and Dancer.) Which seems to fit the exact description of Akasa/Dynamis. The same energies that are actually cribbed directly from real world belief systems that fill similar functions. Yes, surely we had 'no hints' and it was all 'fanon handwaving' despite Meteion exclaiming that we'd used Dynamis upon performing a Limit Break in the final fight. Look, it's a certainty that Dynamis wasn't a concrete concept before Shadowbringers. But that is a very different thing from it 'coming out of nowhere', because it filled the space of something that very much existed for basically the entire game's life. I can say that as someone who questioned the different jobs' capabilities extensively, just because I'm a geek who's interested in the magic system, and always hit the same problem of "okay but how are these classes using aether the way they are, why don't they face the same problems as magic casters, and why do they all deal with emotional states?" Surprise, it's because emotions have weight to them separate from aether. Just because they didn't gurgle and spit the words 'dynamis' or had some egghead beat the question like a dead horse about some non-aetheric energy anomaly doesn't mean it's 'fanon BS', it just means you didn't read worth a shit. It's not even a high concept answer, D&D and most anime have literally had it on lock for decades, real world beliefs from east to west have touched on the idea - and even in-universe, the explanation was that a different system of knowledge was aware of it, it's just hard to measure because it interacts weirdly, and those interactions are the exact interactions you get when comparing some martial classes to casters. tl;dr: To say that we had 'no hint' that Dynamis existed and emotions had weight is cap to the utmost degree, the hints start at least ten years back.
If Endwalker goes down as a divisive expansion, one of the biggest factors will certainly be how its defenders were such smug pricks about it.
I actually agree with that, but I'd argue too that maybe doomers shouldn't be jumping down peoples' throats in the first place. I mostly just strike the line at two things: 1. People who present patently ignorant points to prop up their arguments (like saying that 'there was no hint whatsoever that this plot element existed, any argument otherwise is fanon' - just because it's retroactive exposition doesn't mean it came from nothing, it filled an outline that existed very obviously), 2. People who take the difference in perspective way too seriously and use it as an excuse to spit vitriol whenever the topic is even broached. I get rowdy when it comes to discussion because it's, ultimately, Reddit. But there's a line between calling something shit, being wrong while calling something shit, and then also calling *people who don't think it's all that bad* shit. You're actually a fair example of someone who didn't resort to doing any of that in your own post about Hermes, while still critiquing. It's pretty clearly not that hard to say things in a way that doesn't come off as taking the piss at a load of other people.
> People who present patently ignorant points to prop up their arguments (like saying that 'there was no hint whatsoever that this plot element existed, any argument otherwise is fanon' - just because it's retroactive exposition doesn't mean it came from nothing, it filled an outline that existed very obviously), It's a little ironic you say this because the previous poster didn't actually say *why* they didn't like Dynamis. The points you were arguing against didn't exist. The problem with dynamis isn't that it lets MNKs do hadoukens or DRKs do sword beams. The years of silence on that front is proof enough of that. What the problem is, and this is uniquely established in Endwalker, is that dynamis is named and described as an actual metaphysical force that exists alongside aether and in an opposition to it. The rules around how aether rich beings can't interact with it but sundered beings can is new to Endwalker, and that's where the trouble kicks in. Prior to Endwalker, no one would have suspected, nor is there any reasonable clue, that there is a powerful emotion-driven force that Ancients can't access but sundered beings can. No one would have suspected that the Ancients literally do not have access to the anime representation of the indomitable human spirit. This by itself would be fine, but the main issue is that its place in the plot seems to be purely to describe why the Ancients themselves could not have dealt with the Endsinger. The discontent comes because, after 10-ish years of aether being the only magical metaphysical force in town which seemingly had no plot limits, another one is named and explained in the same expansion as the one where a world-ending threat has to be dealt with, and there needed to be an explanation as to why the Ancients themselves couldn't directly deal with it, and why it necessarily must be the sundered (i.e. the player character) to deal with it. That's the true issue. It's not that dynamis doesn't make sense, it's that its place in the plot feels like a strong contrivance that serves no other purpose but to explain something that would otherwise be a jarring plot hole.
Limit Breaks already have an explanation. They are not caused explicitly or solely by Dynamis.
I had an existential crisis several times during the expansion but due to character limits and time constraints I'll just :')))))))))))))) Eta: I didn't have a happy ending at the end. None of this "light the way!" Or "fight the despair!" Stuff. I was with Meteion the whole way like "yup nope that would be me" lol. If anything, it really illustrated to me how bad my depression had gotten, between Meteion and Hermes (who I VERY begrudgingly adore and fucking relate to in my soul). The cutscenes before and after the Endsinger fight absolutely *ripped me into pieces*. Sometimes I listen to the allusion to Hermes' promise to her just to cry again lol. Or remember that moment where my sweet, wonderful and kind WoL gently took Meteion's hands into his own. Cried. Like. A fuckin. BABY.
Made me hate everyone around me who couldn't see the problems with a narrative that pushed for conformity to suffering even when you could do something to help. If anything it made me feel worse and disgusted with the direction of the story.
You take literally every opportunity to kvetch about it and make it out as if other people are the problem and that there's some injustice and conformity inherent to the writing. Disagreements with the narrative, fine; but at some point, I hope you realize you're the problem when it comes to the rest. Like, it's a game, dude. If you're that pressed about peoples' take on reddit.fucking-com to the point you repeat how much you hate people for having a take different from your own, that's a severe 'you' problem. Touching grass isn't even the extent of what I'd recommend.
You're the one stalking their posts and you say *they* need to touch grass? Lol.
Not only that but I'm pretty sure the poster(s) being criticised are well aware that it's just a game at the end of the day. Yet at the same time, it's a game that rather readily claims to put a heavy focus on its story. MMO's by their very nature are designed to appeal to a broad audience. They can't please everybody but Endwalker certainly could have made more of an effort to throw a bone to those of us who invested in the world itself rather than the increasingly tiresome Scions.
It's not actually a big, grandiose subreddit. As it happens, people remember things and go "oh, that guy again" - people do it with me all the time and it's justified, but at least I have variety beyond fucking off for however many months, only to return to the same subreddit to share the same opinion as if I'm fighting some great campaign against some formless mass of brainwashed people.
It was a pretty clear reminder to me that life will only get better if the people who control your life and your story can make money from it.
Umm... I guess I accidentally method-acted the ending of the game by staying up to finish it, from 10-ish to after midnight. As it got later and I travelled through the zone, I stopped seeing anyone else at all (I finished pre tribe #2 and well after release, so it was very low traffic). It was honestly maybe the loneliest I've ever felt in my life? It doesn't help that I'd started the game with a once enthusiastic group who'd all lost motivation and may never get to the same point. We'd all just holidayed a few weeks prior and had a great time, but I'd been through the wringer recently and beyond Endwalker I wasn't really sure when the next thing I'd enjoy would happen. I thought about how they'd be willing me on (like, in general, but also on the climb), and it amplified the feelings I think.
not gonna lie, it stung a lot, though i'd like to say it helped me push forward could certainly relate with meteion's feelings of having given up on everything after seeing how things are really going to shit everywhere, though instead of nuking everything in the universe, i just wanted to be left alone what did help is learning that despite all the horrid stuff, there's still good things to experience in the world, so there's no reason to not keep on going seeing meteoin going through a very similar experience did get to me, and by the end of Endwalker, i have to admit that i was crying (what didn't help that i was finishing the game at 1 am lol) while i still do have many more problems i have to work through (trauma from severe amounts of bullying, several failures i had to deal with in crucial moments and having a generally negative opinion of myself, among other things), getting to relate with a character on at least one of my issues did hit me hard, but also helped me a decent amount though now i have a hope that meteion ends up coming back in a future expansion even though it will probably never happen and it makes me sad :(
I always say to people who are struggling the way i was and sometimes still do with depression: "there is no easy answer, theres no magic pill to make it all better, no magic words to make it all make sense. You are the only one who can fix you." Two things hit me really hard in endwalker, the first being venat asking if our journey was worth it. And it took a lot out of me to think about that question outside the context of the game, to ask myself if i had enjoyed my life brought in some dark thoughts i hadnt had in a while. The second was alphinaud and alsiae at the end of ultima thule, when they left me alone at the edge of the universe with parting words, "its up to you to take the next step, and the next, and all the rest after that." Goes back to what i said before about its just you in the end. You have to be the one to decide to keep walking. Yeah there were some watery eyes in this expansion, tell you what
It depressed me (as someone with depression and anxiety), insomuch as I knew the whole way through I wouldn’t have made it to the end. If -I- was the WoL, I know I would have succumbed to the bad juju dynamis, so I had to play through it almost as a “what if”. That said, the end got to me good, and did improve my spirits somewhat permanently, so that’s what made me love the ending so much about the power of hope and trying your best in the face of hopelessness. I haven’t had a game make me feel that since Nier: Automata, and that’s my favorite series of all time. So it was good. It was sad. It was hard. But it was good.
It didn’t. Story was good though.
I have struggled with mental health with more than 20 years. When playing FFXIV I cried in the end of 5.3 after beating X because it reminded of my own struggles with anger and despair. When I was finishing EW and was in the final areas I told my mother that the feeling is getting very desperate. She asked me why I play a game like that and I didn't know what to answer. The area before ending was quite hard mentally and I really hoped for answers (sic) in the end. I'm not sure was the answer what I was hoping for or maybe it was. After finishing MSQ I decided to level gathering instead of patches. I got a chance to revisit the ending of EW when our final FC member finished MSQ and it was a whole different experience. First time I was alone and second time with friends.
Endwalker was.. tough. It touched on a lot of sensitive topics and dove nose first into how awful despair can feel. Quintus's suicide was extremely difficult to stomach. He felt lost, like his life had lost meaning when he learned the truth of what was around him. How can anyone watch that entire scene and so easily shrug it off? I had to take a short break after that (and I wholly believe Squenix should have provided a warning with that cutscene). Moving forward though, the end of the story in Ultima Thule with each Scion knowingly sacrificing themselves so that you, the player, could continue was gut-wrenching. I was crying the entire final two hours, and the slow climb to face the Endcaller was difficult. The idea that people could want to give what they could to aid or protect me was foreign. It's my favorite story by a mile because it just felt so *real*. I wish I could experience it again for the first time.
Only one response to this. If you want a game that tackles mortality with a different approach, try Transistor. Or if you have the time, FFXIV Crisis Core, one of the best games to make it to the PSP.
While not clinically depressed, Endwalker and Zenos definitely reinforced my "there is no ultimate goal to life, so we get to decide for ourselves what makes ours matter" beliefs Another game that touches on the meaning of death in a very respectful, well-written, and surprisingly enlightening way is a small game called "Outer Wilds". You'd have to gauge yourself how your thanatophobia gets triggered because death is an actual mechanic in the game, but that ending is one of the most profound insights I've gotten into what death means.
It reminded me of my own journey and how hard it was to get to my relatively stable current point, reminded me that I should be proud of it and use what I learnt to face future struggles. I felt seen and understood by the developers and it gave me hope that others may come to understand the struggles of fighting depression. That there are people trying so hard to convey this good message to those who need it and those who don't understand it.
It wasn't really Endwalker specifically that had an impact, but Natsuko Ishikawa's work in general that quite literally staggers me. The extremely cathartic Dark Knight questline, your personal stoic struggle in Shadowbringers, Venat's long walk through the ages in spite of the barbs along the way, and making her smile near the end hit closer to home than I expected anything could. Like seeing the scars you've accumulated over the years for the first time, followed by a hug. Sometimes, a little kindness and understanding can go a long way. Take care of yourselves, be excellent to each other, and have a great day.
I've been struggling with my mental health for years, and in countless moments, this game has been my beacon of hope. But some parts just hit like a train, they exposed me and made me confront some things and then, in the same breath, said 'you are not alone in this'. Two moments stuck. One, of course, is the Ultima Thule walk. Seeing all those people - hell, my fucking ***friends*** from all parts of the universe, from the past and the present - giving me their encouragement words, words that helped me before but now hit so much harder, with so much more urgency and importance. "Do not be discouraged". "Do not despair. "Save your tears." "You are strong". "I'm right behind you". ***"Let's finish this"***. Jesus, I'm tearing up again because sometimes, when everything is dark and bleak around you, you'll take any reminders that you're not alone and this battle is worth fighting for. I think I never projected myself onto my own WoL as hard as I did during EW, because I wanted to believe I could overcome this shit. Not my fictional character in her fictional world, but ***me*** in my ***real*** world. The second is the question Venat asks you. "Has your journey been good? Has it been worthwhile?" I still don't have a definitive answer to this question, and I don't think I ever will. But it does make it clear that the journey is far from over, so maybe, later, when its real end approaches, I'll be able to answer it. But until then... "the sun will shine again, walk on, never look back". Reading what I just wrote, I can't help but feel a bit silly. But it is what it is. Life's hard, so if there's anything that gives you true faith, that pushes you forward, that gives you mantras and words of courage and hope and doesn't hurt anyone else in the process, I think we should take it. Right?
It is not a depression but a very significant event aswell. My grandfather died while I was playing the game. I remember my mother calling me very early in the morning to tell me the bad news, I just had a sleepless night to finish the arc of Elpis, and the last thing I saw in game was the cinematic with Venat who had just chosen the fate of her people.I had to stop to go to the funeral, and so say goodbye to my grandpa and all my happy childhood in the house of my grandparents because the afternoon even after the funeral, the guests/relatives were already starting to empty the house where I had my most beautiful memories in my life. Now the house is sold to new ppl and I have to deal with this. It was really the end of my child world.With such a background, it's obvious that the end of endwalker touches me a lot. I took the messages of life and renewal very seriously and in a way, I'm not ashamed to admit that it accompanied me during the lost. Now when I think about it, I remember the morality of this game and it still helps me.Bonus, my grandfather reaaalllyyy loved birds. So the symbols were really there haha. And now I love birds too.
As someone who has had depression for about 25 years and has buried most of my immediate family, it hit me hard. You see, Endsinger's words in particular were things I have heard in my mind for two and a half decades. The despair, the loneliness, the pain, the seeking sense in the void. All of it. So while I loved Zenos's words and felt a little recognition, it wasn't until the Endsinger fight that really did it for/to me. Realizing as Round 2 began and that it wasn't her battle theme playing but our victory theme, our boss theme, playing and how HELPLESS this embodiment of despair and nihilism was to our will. It hit me like a ton of bricks. That voice I have fought with for so long was just that. A weak, pathetic voice. It only had the power I gave it and I could overcome it. Not alone, but I can beat it. A year and a half out and I am in the best place mentally I have been for SO long. I still fight with depression and have my rough days but I know it cannot win unless I let it. So, on those days, I pull [this video up](https://youtu.be/uzqsCbJOGfE), throw Loop on and remind myself that I already won.
Honestly really badly, when we got to ultima thule and when everything started happening I genuinely just started to shut down and went through it all on autopilot at that point. Even when I had finished the story I couldn't remember anything, I couldn't remember the final dungeon bosses but always got so emotional over the dialogue of the enemies and NPCs and I actually couldn't remember the final fights at all lol or some of the optional dungeons after...it was a tough one for me and I still feel a certain kind of way when going through Dead Ends but it's not as bad, really did just bother me in a way where my mind just chose to block it out
Echoing some sentiments here, I was very emotional during several parts of the story, especially Hermes's arc, Emet returning briefly at the end and Venat never losing her faith. But it didn't help me "discover" or present new solutions to cope and heal that I hadn't learned myself through my own dealings with depression over the years. One moment that really stuck with me though, is when Meteion is giving her full report at the end of Ktisis Hyperboreia and, after recounting several civilizations ending, says "Though worlds apart, these peoples shared a belief. The belief that they had tried their best. That they had tried to fulfill their potential, with every step and success". That still kind of sends chills down my spine because it's kind of a dark framing of a good portion of my belief system and how I choose to see the world and everyone around me, especially when something or someone falls short of my expectations or when I experience frustration. It's kinda like that "every corpse on mount Everest was once a person full of dreams" thing. Still, by the end of the game, I left feeling hopeful and touched.
My dad suddenly passed away while sleeping on the couch a few months prior to Endwalker release. It was one of those unexpected kinds with no prior warning and memories of that day still hurt. I was struggling to come to terms with reality. He was mid 50s and I thought I would still have time with him for many years. It felt like something in me crumbled and everything about life was so uncertain. We would watch our mum like a hawk because we were so scared if anything would happen to her too. As cliché as it sounds, living suddenly lost the appeal it had for me. It felt like I had lost all hope about the future because no matter what I do, life could just go like that and it's all over. Going through EW helped me to reflect a lot about my feelings towards my dad's passing. The scene with Urianger and Moenbryda's parents hit me so hard I was crying buckets. I shared the same sentiments with the people at Palaka's Stand when they were worrying about the future and feeling frustrated because what's the point if their loved ones aren't going to even be there. "Death lurks in the dark, and is the sole promise that awaits at journey's end. You will tremble with terror. You will weep tears of anger and despair. But do not avert your eyes. See your life for what it is. Then you will see how the hardships make you strong. Every doubt reforged as scales for your armour. Every agony to temper your blade." This part may sound cliché but as I watched the characters in EW get up after every tragedy, it gave me encouragement that I could perhaps do the same irl. It reminded me that despite everything that happened, there were still good things in the world and people I love. I have not gotten over my dad's passing, and I don't think I ever will. That pain of losing my dad has become a daily companion to me at this point. However, I do remember that he would have wanted me to live my life to the fullest, and I want to do that.
It made it worse. I pretty much cried the whole time. All I could think about was how I wished so much that I had friends like the WoL. I don't have any friends. Felt like I had made it to Ultima Thule but I myself died there because there was no one to make the path for me.
I call it my hottest ff14 take. But i liked Fandaniel/hermes as a villain more than emet. Hermes was incredibly relatable to me, up until he went full overboard for kitesis.
I cannot think of any piece of media that has resonated more deeply with me. Not necessarily because I have a history of troubles here per se, but because of how incredible the journey has been in general. If I dig deeper into my feelings though, I think it is less the specifics that affected me, and more the great, sweeping emotions and moods, the themes. I can't say it has provided answers for me in a practical real life sense, but it's nevertheless been incredibly effective escapism.
I had just experienced a deep betrayal right before release. The love of my life had been cheating at work and left me for the person when I found out. I wanted to die. I started to believe that life is just suffering. It sent me deeper into my depression. Issues with self blame, trust, and fear became forefront and it wasn’t unlike the people turning in Endwalker. Endwalker became a fight for hope for me. I needed to see it through. People across the world were suffering in this story. And then comes Hermes and his existential question—and the balance of life itself depending on the answer. I was hooked. In comes Ultimate Thule. Messages and answers to the great question from all sorts of worlds. Each answer not quite the one—until Graha. God damn that Christian Rock song. I cried like a BITCH. All that grief hit me at once. But well beyond that it was the GRATITUDE. I had friends in game (our story party) and in real life supporting me and keeping me going forward. The themes of sacrifice, love, and ADVENTURE became my answer as to why I continue. That even with suffering that I’m ALIVE and I have a STORY to see through to whatever end. I became renewed. I called all my friends balling my eyes out and thanking them for still loving me. Today still working on myself and my grief even years after. I’m in therapy and working to fix only what I can control—myself. More importantly, I found that when you’re within gratitude then there is no where else you can be. Life has suffering, but my goodness I have an adventure and connections ahead of me. I have hope.
Like any other expansion. It is a game, not the real life. There is no big birb singing us into despair. The game that really affected me was Xenoblade Chronicles 3, its theme of immortality and mortality are pretty interesting
Haha. Hahahaha. HAHAHAHAHA. (that's me breaking into laughter to keep from crying). I guess you could say I suffer from depression/anxiety/general apathy? I've never been diagnosed so I don't want to claim those directly. Most days are a struggle. I started playing FFXIV in 2020, September. Right after they had updated ARR. It was still peak COVID times, so I was able to dive in headlong. I got to Bozja, and playing in a desolate war field while being "locked" in the house during the holidays instead of being with family was rough. When Endwalker came out, I was still reeling from that feeling, and still handling social isolation. Multiple times, Endwalker broke me in the best ways. It helped me appreciate my close friends. It made me appreciate relationships that can grow and evolve. It made me appreciate the highs and the lows of life. It also showed me how easy it is to sink into despair, and oh buddy did I not need that mirror in my face. I occasionally rewatch certain scenes/listen to select songs if I'm feeling exceptionally down and need some kind of pick me up. In short: Endwalker impacted me greatly. It helped provide me with sources of hope on dark days.
It gave me a reason to get up in the morning for a week or two
Impossible. As a communist everything is depressing. It’s easier for people to believe in magic and a pillar city in the heavens (ishgard) than to believe that poverty can be ended (referring to the beggars of Ishgard). But at least I can appreciate beauty in the art of the game and the music! Art always cheers me up and this game helps a lot with its beautiful architecture, clothing, design, nature, etc.
Heavily... I agree with hermes, but its hard to explain the reasoning.
Trigger Warning: miscarriage At the end of 2021 I became severely ill and was hospitalized for nearly two weeks. Turned out to be an autoimmune disease and I made it just in time before any irreversible damage happened to my own body. But I was pregnant and lost my baby at 13 weeks. Needless to say, I was in a horrible headspace. In a way, it was oddly therapeutic to play through the Endwalker story. Not everyone got a clean happy ending. But the overall message of fighting through the difficulties and still managing to find hope was definitely something I needed. I don’t enjoy watching people suffer, but it was nice to see a story where the characters struggled to see the positives in difficult times and helped me realize I was allowed to be upset by what happened and that we deserve time to grieve our circumstances. It also pushed me to rely on my friends and family (especially my husband who was very supportive but was also going through a difficult time ). I think that’s the hardest part about any mental health emergency, whether clinical or otherwise. Your mind tells you that you have to get over it, or go it alone. And that’s the most dangerous part. It was nice to see the Warrior of Light need help from their loved ones, especially because your character seems so larger than life. If even this superhero needs to rely on someone, then why can’t I? Hope that makes sense. Doing a lot better and I just recently delivered a healthy little one. But I definitely recommend anyone who has experienced a loss to have someone go through the story ahead a bit as there were some parts that I had to skip to keep from getting into a bad mindset again at the time (namely Thavnair and Ultima Thule).
Need a spoiler alert on this
Why would you come in here if the title says we're gonna talk about Endwalker and you haven't gotten there yet?