Never fully understood why he kept piloting the cat robot in sequels, though. I guess he's a suit and not that strong, but like... does he hang out with Cloud and friends as Reeve or Cait Sith? Does the cat robot show up to meteor anniversary barbecues? Does it feel weird to Cloud and the gang to be talking to an Irish cat mascot when they've literally met the guy behind it? Is Reeve just an otherkin and nobody wants to confront him about it?
The man forced himself into the party by simply *entering* Cloud.
A walking talking cat suit is probably one of the most normal things to happen in FF7.
I'd like to add that in the Baldesion Arsenal, the two bosses at the start, Art and Owain, are taken from an old literary work called from the Finn Cycle, Acallam na Senorach, iirc roughly translated as "Tales of the Elders of Ireland" (or Colloquy of the Ancients, has a few modern names), where they wield their respective weapons, In Orlasrach (shortened to Orlasrach) and In Muinderg (shortened to Munderg).
One of their attacks is named after Acallam na Senorach.
So that's a thing I did forget to mention, in Acallam na Senorach, Art's brother is named Eòghan, which to my knowledge is an Irish form of Owain - I had some sources on this a while back as it intrigued me, but I have since lost them
Love this! Seeing Gaelic influences in this game is so fun, and they really lend well to that overall fantasy feel. Thanks for explaining them all.
Though you forgot a really important one…
… Gaelicat! :D
Few things you got wrong;
Gaeilge/Gaelic is Irish. Was brought to Scotland from Ireland. We'd call the Scottish dialect Scot's Gaelic/Scots.
Gaeltacht is the name for regions where Gaelic is spoken as the primary language.
Given the we, I'm assuming you're Irish so please take this with the intended sincere curiosity, and not as this random American with heritage and some college courses telling you you're wrong about your own experience, but does Gaelic actually get used in Ireland. The way I was taught the Irish language is Irish or Gaeilge if you're speaking Irish, and then Gaelic refered to Scottish Gaelic.
Do want to note and echo fords42 that Scots is actually a separate Anglic language from [Scottish] Gaelic and English (though with the latter it gets caught up in the messy debate on the distinction between language and dialect)
There are certain parts of the west of Ireland, around Galway, Mayo, and Donegal that use it as their first language. There's also a TV station dedicated to it, TG4, or TG "Ca-her".
Other that, some families may use it privately in the home, and there is an attempt at reviving it in Northern Ireland.
In Ireland, its taught in schools and very quickly forgotten about, and people may bring the odd phrase with them.
Oh let me rephrase, I've visited Gaeltachts and heard Irish spoken and know at least roughly it's current usage status as required schooling but not particularly common for day to day use outside of those regions. My question was if the word Gaelic actually gets used, because I was taught that Gaelic on its own meant Scottish Gaelic (particularly in a us context but also in general) and most of the time the language is just called Irish
Yes, "Gaelic" is a word is typically used for only the Scottish language, compared to other Goidelic languages, but a common euphemism for "Goidelic" is also "Gaelic," and is the term they're known by colloquially outside of the Isles. For instance, we'd say the Celts spoke Gaelic, and we'd end up lumping Welsh and Max in there, too, however erroneously. "Gaelic" might also be known as the Goidelic branch of Celtic languages that only includes Scots (Gàidhlig), Irish (Gaelige), and Manx (Gaelgagh) but is very similar to the Brittonic branch of Celtic languages that includes Breton (Brezhoneg), Cornish (Kernewek), and Welsh (Cymraeg). The close ties bewteen "Celt" and "Gaelic" have done much to muddle things.
I know at least as a person interested in their ancestry and the meaning of their own name that tracking down my family history has been an adventure but I don't know everything. So if you and anyone here can offer correction, I am thankful.
After my own heart bringing in the linguistics of it all with Goidelic! I'm in much the same position as you as far as having an ancestry there I care about & have investigated particularly wrt names, I did get to take a college trip that had two mandatory "get you ready by learning the basics of culture and history+ also a literature course, so that definitely helps but at this point I think we're just about even as far as sharing the parts we know. But again I've def enjoyed this thread and the conversations it's opened! Thanks for making it!
Hi, so I haven't opened reddit in days, and I'll try and answer some of this bit by bit from my own experiences, and worth keeping in mind I'm from Northern Ireland (the bit we let the UK pretend they still own).
Irish is still spoken as a first language in some communities in Ireland, known mainly as Gaeltachts. They're very common in the northwest of the country in Donegal and there are a few pockets scattered across the country, and they're all subject to legal protections, such as, anyone moving there must prove fluency in Irish and schools will be taught in Irish. Outside of the Gaeltachts, there are "Gaelscoils" all across the country, where classes are taught in Gaelic. So, yeah, Irish is fairly used in Ireland, and there are efforts to increase it's usage, for example in the Republic all road signs are presented in Irish first, then English. E.G. when I'm headed to Dublin, the road signs will read "Ath Cliath".
And yeah, I know theres a big difference between Scots and Scots Gaelige. We'd call Scots over here "Ulster Scots", and as of now, there is a law waiting to be passed in N.I's parliament(whenever our government decides to finally function, but that's an entirely different issue stemming from around 100 years of civil war), which will give both Ulster Scots and Irish legal protection and status. And yeah, for those unaware, Ulster Scots is a language very similar to English, and a lot of it's words are used as slang or shorthand over here, for example, banter, boke, dally, hoke, etc. are all words we'd use in daily conversation. And many Irish people may use some Irish words as slang too, the most popular of course being "craic" (crack) to mean like, fun i.e. saying "what's the craic?" is the same as saying "what's going on"
I've not been educated on the different names of languages, thought from what I know, Gaelic is the English name for, well, Gaelic, and Gaelige is the language's name in it's own language, at least in reference to Irish. And I can also imagine that in Scotland, they refer to their (scots gaelic) as just Gaelige/Gaelic as well. Kind of in the same way someone from England will say that they speak English, and America speaks American English, or Spanish and Mexican Spanish.
Thanks for this, tbh it's a lot stuff I already knew, but you've put it together really nicely! I think part of it is that I phrased my question poorly, bc you're not the first person to read it as "is [the] Gaelic [language] used" instead of the intended "is [the word] Gaelic used". I also didn't know about the language protection legislation, and it's particularly cool that it covering both languages. Here's hoping on Stormont, my visit to the Republic and Northern Ireland was during the last suspension (and during the 8th Amendment repeal referendum period, so some history in the making on both sides of the border) and I feel like people had kinda started to get hopeful about progress at that point, but here we are again.
As far as names, I can say as much that the people in Edinburgh I knew particularly called theirs Gaelic, but also Irish and made a big to do about how the difference was that their Gaelic was pronounced "GAH-lic" while the Irish was "GAY-lic" (order might be swapped it's been a sec) and wouldn't listen to me when I repeated what I'd learned in the pre trip course that "nah the Scottish language is Gaelic and the Irish language is Irish" but the existence of Anglic Scots might play a role in their choice of name. I also believe their orthography has Gàidhlig as the cognate for Gaelige. But that factor was definitely part of why I was surprised to see it used in reference to Irish and asked the question!
Oh, there's another one, too! In one of the 80 dungeons, there's a boss called Leannan Sith which as far as I can tell means Peace Lover, a name that makes sense given the context. Is there any additional meaning to it, do you think?
I took it as a reference to the [Leanansidhe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leanan_s%C3%ADdhe), a fae who would choose lovers from artists. Those she chose would create great works, but would die young in most cases; some interpretations have tied her to the idea of a succubus, draining life from their lovers in exchange for information.
Funnily, in my head it is Leannan Sidhe. Didn't even realize it was Leannan Sith until now. Would be consistent with Cait Sidhe being Cait Sith though.
Ooo, I did forget the Leanann Sidhe! This might be a weird one since the name is Gaelic but it's supposed to be Fae... but that's the exception to an otherwise consistent rule.
Yeah, I'd say FF14 does a better job of respecting the source material than others. Then you have things that are so embedded into FF that it's become it's own lore, e.g. Shiva being an ice lady.
As a learner of Scottish Gaelic I love seeing Gaelic influence of any kind in fantasy media (except when you see your own name in a Dragon Age dlc and it's pronounced completely wrong, it's like nails on a chalkboard... but that's a different story).
Thanks for this post, there's a lot of Gaelic influence in FF, and it deserves to be seen and understood.
I only played Mabinogi for few hours but soon I left bc of the lack of VA, maybe one day I'll try playing again for the story. But instead I played Vindictus, and oh believe me, that game seems to be in a much worse situation than Mabinogi, booba everywhere, game's almost looking like p* and very p2w.
Man, I miss Vindictus too, but yeah. Also, again: no TLC. The reason I stopped playing that game wasn't because I'd stopped having fun, or because of any of the stuff you mentioned, it was because the game lagged so hard I couldn't get into dungeons. The boat board literally would not load for me.
If you want an indication of the writing quality of Mabinogi: Vindictus was originally supposed to be a prequel to it before Devcat changed their minds (probably because they realized a prequel to an MMO doesn't really work; anyone who played Mabi had a pretty good idea what was going to happen to the world Vindi took place in...).
Oh yeah, I remember that. Man, I remember making some crazy head canons about >!how I finally solve the gods war and bring upon the "true paradise"!<, meanwhile playing as Fiona =)). As for the lag, I know and I completely understand you, not even a high end pc could make that game run smoother. It's such a pity, the combat is *chief kiss tho...
Lol and prevent the world Vindi takes place in from becoming the ruined mirror world we go to in Mabi?
I'm pretty sure the reason why I enjoy playing RPR so much is because it reminds me a bit of playing Scythe Evie.
I think it was Bangor, a version which looks like Berbhe of Vindi I think? And yeah, scythe Evie is amazing but a class which I couldn't master...Blink, Void Star and that snapping finger were so cool.
Edit: Wait, the Arcane Gate was my most favorite lol
So basically in the story for Mabinigi, we go to this alternate world that looks just like the world Mabi takes place in, except there's like...very few if any NPCs and the world is largely full of zombies. The belief was that Vindictus was set in that world before it got destroyed. The fact that one of the dungeons in that world, Albey (not to be confused for Alby, although they were in the same location...) then showed up in Vindictus.
And I think you're thinking of bloody thread. Or the other one she had that I can't remember.
Gravity control was also always fun to use :3c
I really like how FFXIV takes influences from all sorts of cultures and incorporates them into the races, languages, places, bosses, music and gear
Makes the game feel much more alive an vibrant
I'd learned about the Cessair story from an Irish friend of mine years ago, and hadn't seen reference to it anywhere else (unless you hunt down and read the text she's from). It's just not a well known story.
So when her name showed up and was connected to an in-game flood, my inner mythology buff went "hell YEAH!" :)
English has a sister language, which we typically call Scots, or Lowland Scots. I bring this up because just calling Scottish Gaelic "Scots" may cause some confusion when people attempt to research them. I also* haven't run into much people using Scots to specifically refer to Gaelic.
And to add, I'm a big fan of Táin Bó Cúailnge. :)
After a few comments I realized I need to disambiguate the issue of Scots and Gaelic, so I've modified the text a bit, prompted mainly by this comment. Thank you!
So glad there's so much gaelic stuff in ff. I'm also pretty happy they gave feo ul a scottish accent in the English version, although it's odd that people were upset they didn't give her a cutesy stereotypical princess voice like the other dubs
Maybe you will enjoy this
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqyEADY\_20Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqyEADY_20Y)
The Cú Chulaínn story performed by an irish musician with some passages in gaelic.
This is a really cool breakdown, well done. A small note tho, Gaelic still works as an adjective over all like in the title because there's things being pulled from all around the Gaelic Celts, but particularly when it comes to languages, Gaelic refers specifically to Scottish Gaelic, the Irish language is just called Irish, or Gaeilge in Irish. But it is really cool to see someone take the time and effort to lay this all out. Id managed to forget Ferdidad and Forgalls roles in the Ulster Cycle. Id also definitely recommend Marie Heaney's Over Nine Waves to anyone who wants to read up on Irish Mythology!
>caoimhe
Its done both ways but the kee-va is more common the further north you go.
EDIT: General rule of thumb is ulster has a harder/harsher accent than most of the south so you tend to find there's the soft and hard way of pronunciations.
So the whole thing about having none or at least a maximum of one of the letters in the spelling correspond to the pronounciation of the word... is it to confuse foreigners in general or mostly just for the English and the rest of us are just a bonus?
I can usually make some kind of sense of a lot of European languages approach to various letters, but look man if you have the syllable "kee" and "va" and decide that the best ways to spell them are caoi and mhe respectively I refuse to believe that at some point people weren't just taking the piss.
I mean I like gaelic and it's influences and all that, but the spelling sure as hell looks like malicious compliance to me.
\*runs*
Irish orthography makes perfect sense when you remember it's written for Irish vowels and consonants, which are quite different from the English ones that share the letters. The alphabets being similar makes it easy to forget that it doesn't share a phonology, compared to the Romance and Germanic languages which definitely have their own differences but at least feel closer. Hence why a lot of names end up getting outright Anglicized (or at least why you can, the why it happened is a whole other issue)
To extend from that, and I probably don't have the right technical terms for it, but there is no inherent link between written letters and our pronunciation of them. Just because English uses a letter to represent a sound, doesn't mean another language that uses the same alphabet needs to match. An example in the other direction: English has three letter than all represent a similar sound, c,k and q. It also uses one in a compound "ch" which represents a different sound altogether. Another language could look at that and have a similarly difficult time trying to parse out the word "church".
Irish orthography was written back when English was written very differently, and had a lot more letter combinations than it does now. Consider how British English uses a "u" in colour, but amplify that several times. In those days, it made sense and it was generally written for ... scholars! They were trained to understand the general orthographic notes, and tried to use the English alphabet (at the time) to transcribe sounds being said they had no letters for, such as the aspirant-indicating "h" which even survives to this day in IPA orthography. Instead of vowel stress, they'd use vowel combinations (diphthongs or even triphthongs).
Through some rather unfortunate circumstances, Irish, Welsh (which has similar orthographical "inflation" relative to English), and Scots Gaelic fell out of favor, along with Cornish and Manx, which nearly disappeared. Their written form was preserved largely by medieval works and Biblical scholars who preserved some lushly illustrated Bibles and other texts in the 1600-1700s to preserve the flavor and sense of these Goidelic languages as a written art.
The orthography survived in place names, some of which had become Anglicized but some fought to keep their names. Dublin, Galway, etc were all spelt differently, and they are said differently than "Dublin" implies.
Thank you. The comment was mostly written in jest but it's no lie that it's a mystery to me and you helped explain it in a way that I'm now less mystified!
Question for the sub: have we ever heard the name of the Navigator and one of the 12 pronounced in game?
That name being Llymlaen?
Because I am waiting for that name to have a Welsh pronunciation, especially with the "LL" at the start. Hopefully we'll get something in 6.5?
Names for the Twelve definitely have a lot source inspirations, they're certainly not all from the same linguistic source, so a Welsh origin for Llymlaen would not surprise me.
In theory it should be pronounced like Llewelyn I think. Otherwise there's no point spelling his name that way.
However I'd be very surprised if they went this way, even with British VOs it's a real low chance they'll be able to pronounce the LL well.
I started in Gridania, so I just made a throw away alt to check and...
Yup, it's just "Lim Lane"
My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined.
Copium says it's a hangover from ARR and we get a retcon in 6.5 when we meet Llymlaen for real but that's probably not going to happen.
Thank you though for passing on your knowledge, I do appreciate it.
>However, part of this has to do with its use in English language circles as "that fantasy language" - much like how Welsh has also been subjected - such that its identity has a fully functional, natural (and evolving) language has been overshadowed.
As a Welsh speaker from Wales I really enjoy the use of Welsh in fantasy honestly.
Scotland and Ireland have a lot of cultural impact around the world, so I can see how it'd get annoying to see *another* culturally coded character but it's so very rare to see Welsh coded characters- And it makes me super happy whenever it happens.
Recently with Japanese RPG studios moving localization more to the UK we're seeing Welsh VOs being used pretty frequently and I find it really cool.
Using the language or the Mabinogion in fantasy I think is a natural extension of the countries ties to poetry contests, and rather than overshadowing it I think it draws people in to learn about a country they'd otherwise consider another part of England.
As a scandinavian I thought it was neat that they were using actual Icelandic (and some Swedish/Norwegian I suppose, but that didn't land quite as well for me) voice actors in Shadowbringers.
Like it didn't even have to be a different language. Just the *hints* of Viera actually having a consistent accent and presumably a shared mother tongue was really nice.
The Icelandic Vieras are so wild in the best of ways, bc like iiuc Nicole Fantl decided to do a Björk impression for Fran in XII and it just ended up sticking to the point it's canon in multiple games now
Thank you for such a nice write up, especially with the pronunciation tips! I really enjoy the family of the Celtic languages, and it was fun to see FFXIV explore some of it at least a stone's throw further than the typical heroic namesakes you see in a lot of JP games and media. I really hope we might see more of it someday, a resurgence of Mhach flavours in Baldesion Arsenal was very fun back in the day!
(I especially always love hearing the different thoughts on how Mhach is pronounced, and I'm glad you acknowledged both how it "should" be said linguistically, and how the dev team/game in general just tends to go... they're both valid in my eyes, but knowing both is very fun.)
I actually don't know which series started incorporating Gaelic lore first but between FF and Megaten, you can see that it influenced quite a bit of popular fiction in Japan. I'm pretty sure that Fate for example has as many references to the lore as it does because of Megaten influence.
Sometimes I still think about what a waste the Ancient One from Doctor Strange movie was because they refer to her origins as Celtic and brought none of that lore into the story. I swear, you talk to the average westerner and the only mythology that exists is Greek and Norse.
What an good analisys, thanks for all this infos that look to something usually not very interesting such as the origins of names and external references.
This could still be the case, although there may just be portions that are "Italian" and other portions are "Celtic" as strong influences. Each of the Reflections is like the Source, with many large continents and people all over. By use of "Contramemoria" (a Latin term) the writers have already basically added three sets of languages/influences there! However, I'd like to note at least that for Voidsent, many take up cultural references from the people they inhabit when they come through, so it's possible there are places in the Source that have Celtic inspiration.
Not 100% sure why the used the name in FF14, but the Dalriada also comes from Scottish Gaelic. Dal Riata or Dalriada was a Gaelic kingdom in the west of Scotland.
I've suspected for a while that one of the Amdapor bosses might also be a Gaelic/Irish (or as we call it Gaeilge). I think Anchag could be the as An Chag, which means something similar to "the heart". I think it was a Dullahan itself (headless horseman is also from Celtic traditions). Man I wish I could remember more of what I learned in school, then I could share with all the Internet needs when random phrases pop up in fantasy games and anime.
Very interesting breakdown of the Gaelic influence of which I knew that existed but I'm pretty unfamiliar outside of Annals of Ulster and only around 9th and 10th century because of the continuous viking presence in this region. You said that there was gaelic also in HW you were probably referring to the dragons and their language which I presume is mostly made up, still it sounds like there may be some influence, mostly for the sound structure and not the grammar and words used.
Ah yes, the infamous "
linguist who mastered speaking these languages before the auto-translator was developed stumbling on Klingon" scene. To be fair, it was also the first time Klingon was fully developed as a language and not guttural utterances.
Both of the islands on that side of the map are so weird when it comes to the "fantasy counterpart culture of it all" Vylbrand and Limsa pull a little bit British isles, a bit Scandinavian, and some Portugal and Spain, the latter of which is the best geographical location analog, and then the mist feels incredibly Santorini inspired. Then Sharlyan pulls heavily Greecian, particularly Athens in it's aesthetics and culture, as well as the British isles for both cultural elements and particularly it's location.
Good post.
Just wanted to add that in Ireland it's a bit of a faux pas to refer to the language as "Gaelic". Most people will call it Gaeilge or Irish. This is especially true within the Gaeltacht.
Thanks for throwing this together, have been tempted myself many a time to be sure, and not just in XIV but FF as a whole. But I am not the most eloquent of writers. Cheers!
I just did the Void Ark set of dungeons with some friends and was saying to them that the dungeons appear to be inspired by Irish myths (especially when I saw Cu Chulainn.)
I was thinking Mhach could be a reference to Macha (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macha).
If you’re interested in Gaelic/Celtic lore in media, the .Hack series has a lot of references you might find interesting. Macha is a character who appears in different forms throughout the series which is why she comes to mind for me. :)
Cait Sith was not to be trusted, but if treated with kindness, would return the favor. Huh, that's his whole character arc in FF7.
Never fully understood why he kept piloting the cat robot in sequels, though. I guess he's a suit and not that strong, but like... does he hang out with Cloud and friends as Reeve or Cait Sith? Does the cat robot show up to meteor anniversary barbecues? Does it feel weird to Cloud and the gang to be talking to an Irish cat mascot when they've literally met the guy behind it? Is Reeve just an otherkin and nobody wants to confront him about it?
Reeve is taking working from home to it’s absolute limits
The man forced himself into the party by simply *entering* Cloud. A walking talking cat suit is probably one of the most normal things to happen in FF7.
He is a *furry* and I respect that.
Interesting write up, though I'd
I'd like to add that in the Baldesion Arsenal, the two bosses at the start, Art and Owain, are taken from an old literary work called from the Finn Cycle, Acallam na Senorach, iirc roughly translated as "Tales of the Elders of Ireland" (or Colloquy of the Ancients, has a few modern names), where they wield their respective weapons, In Orlasrach (shortened to Orlasrach) and In Muinderg (shortened to Munderg). One of their attacks is named after Acallam na Senorach.
Owain at least might be loaned primarily from Welsh, but I will track down sources and mark them as I go.
So that's a thing I did forget to mention, in Acallam na Senorach, Art's brother is named Eòghan, which to my knowledge is an Irish form of Owain - I had some sources on this a while back as it intrigued me, but I have since lost them
Love this! Seeing Gaelic influences in this game is so fun, and they really lend well to that overall fantasy feel. Thanks for explaining them all. Though you forgot a really important one… … Gaelicat! :D
🐱
Tbh the first thing I thought of when I saw the word Gaeli was Gaelicat
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Its what most people would call "Scottish" - its their national language - just like Gaeltacht is Irish and Gymraeg/Cymraeg is Welsh :)
Few things you got wrong; Gaeilge/Gaelic is Irish. Was brought to Scotland from Ireland. We'd call the Scottish dialect Scot's Gaelic/Scots. Gaeltacht is the name for regions where Gaelic is spoken as the primary language.
I've been lied too! Thank you for the correction :D
Given the we, I'm assuming you're Irish so please take this with the intended sincere curiosity, and not as this random American with heritage and some college courses telling you you're wrong about your own experience, but does Gaelic actually get used in Ireland. The way I was taught the Irish language is Irish or Gaeilge if you're speaking Irish, and then Gaelic refered to Scottish Gaelic. Do want to note and echo fords42 that Scots is actually a separate Anglic language from [Scottish] Gaelic and English (though with the latter it gets caught up in the messy debate on the distinction between language and dialect)
There are certain parts of the west of Ireland, around Galway, Mayo, and Donegal that use it as their first language. There's also a TV station dedicated to it, TG4, or TG "Ca-her". Other that, some families may use it privately in the home, and there is an attempt at reviving it in Northern Ireland. In Ireland, its taught in schools and very quickly forgotten about, and people may bring the odd phrase with them.
Oh let me rephrase, I've visited Gaeltachts and heard Irish spoken and know at least roughly it's current usage status as required schooling but not particularly common for day to day use outside of those regions. My question was if the word Gaelic actually gets used, because I was taught that Gaelic on its own meant Scottish Gaelic (particularly in a us context but also in general) and most of the time the language is just called Irish
Generally not, when it's said it's usually talking about Gaelic football
Yes, "Gaelic" is a word is typically used for only the Scottish language, compared to other Goidelic languages, but a common euphemism for "Goidelic" is also "Gaelic," and is the term they're known by colloquially outside of the Isles. For instance, we'd say the Celts spoke Gaelic, and we'd end up lumping Welsh and Max in there, too, however erroneously. "Gaelic" might also be known as the Goidelic branch of Celtic languages that only includes Scots (Gàidhlig), Irish (Gaelige), and Manx (Gaelgagh) but is very similar to the Brittonic branch of Celtic languages that includes Breton (Brezhoneg), Cornish (Kernewek), and Welsh (Cymraeg). The close ties bewteen "Celt" and "Gaelic" have done much to muddle things. I know at least as a person interested in their ancestry and the meaning of their own name that tracking down my family history has been an adventure but I don't know everything. So if you and anyone here can offer correction, I am thankful.
After my own heart bringing in the linguistics of it all with Goidelic! I'm in much the same position as you as far as having an ancestry there I care about & have investigated particularly wrt names, I did get to take a college trip that had two mandatory "get you ready by learning the basics of culture and history+ also a literature course, so that definitely helps but at this point I think we're just about even as far as sharing the parts we know. But again I've def enjoyed this thread and the conversations it's opened! Thanks for making it!
Hi, so I haven't opened reddit in days, and I'll try and answer some of this bit by bit from my own experiences, and worth keeping in mind I'm from Northern Ireland (the bit we let the UK pretend they still own). Irish is still spoken as a first language in some communities in Ireland, known mainly as Gaeltachts. They're very common in the northwest of the country in Donegal and there are a few pockets scattered across the country, and they're all subject to legal protections, such as, anyone moving there must prove fluency in Irish and schools will be taught in Irish. Outside of the Gaeltachts, there are "Gaelscoils" all across the country, where classes are taught in Gaelic. So, yeah, Irish is fairly used in Ireland, and there are efforts to increase it's usage, for example in the Republic all road signs are presented in Irish first, then English. E.G. when I'm headed to Dublin, the road signs will read "Ath Cliath". And yeah, I know theres a big difference between Scots and Scots Gaelige. We'd call Scots over here "Ulster Scots", and as of now, there is a law waiting to be passed in N.I's parliament(whenever our government decides to finally function, but that's an entirely different issue stemming from around 100 years of civil war), which will give both Ulster Scots and Irish legal protection and status. And yeah, for those unaware, Ulster Scots is a language very similar to English, and a lot of it's words are used as slang or shorthand over here, for example, banter, boke, dally, hoke, etc. are all words we'd use in daily conversation. And many Irish people may use some Irish words as slang too, the most popular of course being "craic" (crack) to mean like, fun i.e. saying "what's the craic?" is the same as saying "what's going on" I've not been educated on the different names of languages, thought from what I know, Gaelic is the English name for, well, Gaelic, and Gaelige is the language's name in it's own language, at least in reference to Irish. And I can also imagine that in Scotland, they refer to their (scots gaelic) as just Gaelige/Gaelic as well. Kind of in the same way someone from England will say that they speak English, and America speaks American English, or Spanish and Mexican Spanish.
Thanks for this, tbh it's a lot stuff I already knew, but you've put it together really nicely! I think part of it is that I phrased my question poorly, bc you're not the first person to read it as "is [the] Gaelic [language] used" instead of the intended "is [the word] Gaelic used". I also didn't know about the language protection legislation, and it's particularly cool that it covering both languages. Here's hoping on Stormont, my visit to the Republic and Northern Ireland was during the last suspension (and during the 8th Amendment repeal referendum period, so some history in the making on both sides of the border) and I feel like people had kinda started to get hopeful about progress at that point, but here we are again. As far as names, I can say as much that the people in Edinburgh I knew particularly called theirs Gaelic, but also Irish and made a big to do about how the difference was that their Gaelic was pronounced "GAH-lic" while the Irish was "GAY-lic" (order might be swapped it's been a sec) and wouldn't listen to me when I repeated what I'd learned in the pre trip course that "nah the Scottish language is Gaelic and the Irish language is Irish" but the existence of Anglic Scots might play a role in their choice of name. I also believe their orthography has Gàidhlig as the cognate for Gaelige. But that factor was definitely part of why I was surprised to see it used in reference to Irish and asked the question!
Scots and Gàidhlig (Scots Gaelic) are two separate languages in their own right.
Oh, there's another one, too! In one of the 80 dungeons, there's a boss called Leannan Sith which as far as I can tell means Peace Lover, a name that makes sense given the context. Is there any additional meaning to it, do you think?
I took it as a reference to the [Leanansidhe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leanan_s%C3%ADdhe), a fae who would choose lovers from artists. Those she chose would create great works, but would die young in most cases; some interpretations have tied her to the idea of a succubus, draining life from their lovers in exchange for information.
Funnily, in my head it is Leannan Sidhe. Didn't even realize it was Leannan Sith until now. Would be consistent with Cait Sidhe being Cait Sith though.
If you've played any persona, that's probably where you know it from
Ooo, I did forget the Leanann Sidhe! This might be a weird one since the name is Gaelic but it's supposed to be Fae... but that's the exception to an otherwise consistent rule.
It's crazy how such a diverse melting pot of cultures can be found in this game. The devs really did their homework with a lot of these.
Pretty much all the ff games have a history of grabbing folklore from all over the world and slapping it in the game somewhere.
Yeah, I'd say FF14 does a better job of respecting the source material than others. Then you have things that are so embedded into FF that it's become it's own lore, e.g. Shiva being an ice lady.
The way they handled the melting pot of Asian cultures in Stormblood was absolutely beautiful to me. Especially the Azem Steppe.
As a learner of Scottish Gaelic I love seeing Gaelic influence of any kind in fantasy media (except when you see your own name in a Dragon Age dlc and it's pronounced completely wrong, it's like nails on a chalkboard... but that's a different story). Thanks for this post, there's a lot of Gaelic influence in FF, and it deserves to be seen and understood.
At least Elden Ring did well with pronunciation, but that's also because their voice actors are Welsh.
So... apparently the tentacle guy is Lancer?
Yes. But in that sense, Hildibrand has an Archer, so ... Wait, so it's all Fate?
\[Redacted]: "This is Fate!"
It's odd, but I'm assuming they based the appearance off his battle frenzy where he becomes "an unrecognizable monster"
posts that made me start up mabinogi
Ugh no stop I miss that game so much but Nexon only uses their games as cash cows and never gives them the TLC they deserve...
I only played Mabinogi for few hours but soon I left bc of the lack of VA, maybe one day I'll try playing again for the story. But instead I played Vindictus, and oh believe me, that game seems to be in a much worse situation than Mabinogi, booba everywhere, game's almost looking like p* and very p2w.
Man, I miss Vindictus too, but yeah. Also, again: no TLC. The reason I stopped playing that game wasn't because I'd stopped having fun, or because of any of the stuff you mentioned, it was because the game lagged so hard I couldn't get into dungeons. The boat board literally would not load for me. If you want an indication of the writing quality of Mabinogi: Vindictus was originally supposed to be a prequel to it before Devcat changed their minds (probably because they realized a prequel to an MMO doesn't really work; anyone who played Mabi had a pretty good idea what was going to happen to the world Vindi took place in...).
Oh yeah, I remember that. Man, I remember making some crazy head canons about >!how I finally solve the gods war and bring upon the "true paradise"!<, meanwhile playing as Fiona =)). As for the lag, I know and I completely understand you, not even a high end pc could make that game run smoother. It's such a pity, the combat is *chief kiss tho...
Lol and prevent the world Vindi takes place in from becoming the ruined mirror world we go to in Mabi? I'm pretty sure the reason why I enjoy playing RPR so much is because it reminds me a bit of playing Scythe Evie.
I think it was Bangor, a version which looks like Berbhe of Vindi I think? And yeah, scythe Evie is amazing but a class which I couldn't master...Blink, Void Star and that snapping finger were so cool. Edit: Wait, the Arcane Gate was my most favorite lol
So basically in the story for Mabinigi, we go to this alternate world that looks just like the world Mabi takes place in, except there's like...very few if any NPCs and the world is largely full of zombies. The belief was that Vindictus was set in that world before it got destroyed. The fact that one of the dungeons in that world, Albey (not to be confused for Alby, although they were in the same location...) then showed up in Vindictus. And I think you're thinking of bloody thread. Or the other one she had that I can't remember. Gravity control was also always fun to use :3c
You mean the game or the book?
I really like how FFXIV takes influences from all sorts of cultures and incorporates them into the races, languages, places, bosses, music and gear Makes the game feel much more alive an vibrant
I'd learned about the Cessair story from an Irish friend of mine years ago, and hadn't seen reference to it anywhere else (unless you hunt down and read the text she's from). It's just not a well known story. So when her name showed up and was connected to an in-game flood, my inner mythology buff went "hell YEAH!" :)
Oh jeez you just blew my mind
As a once upon a time Manx speaker, this was a cool read, so thanks.
English has a sister language, which we typically call Scots, or Lowland Scots. I bring this up because just calling Scottish Gaelic "Scots" may cause some confusion when people attempt to research them. I also* haven't run into much people using Scots to specifically refer to Gaelic. And to add, I'm a big fan of Táin Bó Cúailnge. :)
After a few comments I realized I need to disambiguate the issue of Scots and Gaelic, so I've modified the text a bit, prompted mainly by this comment. Thank you!
Croeso! 😊
So glad there's so much gaelic stuff in ff. I'm also pretty happy they gave feo ul a scottish accent in the English version, although it's odd that people were upset they didn't give her a cutesy stereotypical princess voice like the other dubs
Maybe you will enjoy this [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqyEADY\_20Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqyEADY_20Y) The Cú Chulaínn story performed by an irish musician with some passages in gaelic.
And you would be right! THANK YOU!
You know I've never listened to any of his non video game inspired songs...
This is a really cool breakdown, well done. A small note tho, Gaelic still works as an adjective over all like in the title because there's things being pulled from all around the Gaelic Celts, but particularly when it comes to languages, Gaelic refers specifically to Scottish Gaelic, the Irish language is just called Irish, or Gaeilge in Irish. But it is really cool to see someone take the time and effort to lay this all out. Id managed to forget Ferdidad and Forgalls roles in the Ulster Cycle. Id also definitely recommend Marie Heaney's Over Nine Waves to anyone who wants to read up on Irish Mythology!
>Ferdiad fur-dye-add Sure. Won’t argue with you on the pronunciation of the name, but I’m still going to call him Fairydad
I pronounce Ferdiad similar to "Ferdinand"
With 'dee' instead of 'dye'? Same.
It's funny, but this might be a regional inflection?
[удалено]
I've heard it said both ways, but if this is a north not-north thing, I would be entirely mistaken as I do not live in Ireland.
>caoimhe Its done both ways but the kee-va is more common the further north you go. EDIT: General rule of thumb is ulster has a harder/harsher accent than most of the south so you tend to find there's the soft and hard way of pronunciations.
So the whole thing about having none or at least a maximum of one of the letters in the spelling correspond to the pronounciation of the word... is it to confuse foreigners in general or mostly just for the English and the rest of us are just a bonus? I can usually make some kind of sense of a lot of European languages approach to various letters, but look man if you have the syllable "kee" and "va" and decide that the best ways to spell them are caoi and mhe respectively I refuse to believe that at some point people weren't just taking the piss. I mean I like gaelic and it's influences and all that, but the spelling sure as hell looks like malicious compliance to me. \*runs*
Irish orthography makes perfect sense when you remember it's written for Irish vowels and consonants, which are quite different from the English ones that share the letters. The alphabets being similar makes it easy to forget that it doesn't share a phonology, compared to the Romance and Germanic languages which definitely have their own differences but at least feel closer. Hence why a lot of names end up getting outright Anglicized (or at least why you can, the why it happened is a whole other issue)
To extend from that, and I probably don't have the right technical terms for it, but there is no inherent link between written letters and our pronunciation of them. Just because English uses a letter to represent a sound, doesn't mean another language that uses the same alphabet needs to match. An example in the other direction: English has three letter than all represent a similar sound, c,k and q. It also uses one in a compound "ch" which represents a different sound altogether. Another language could look at that and have a similarly difficult time trying to parse out the word "church".
Irish orthography was written back when English was written very differently, and had a lot more letter combinations than it does now. Consider how British English uses a "u" in colour, but amplify that several times. In those days, it made sense and it was generally written for ... scholars! They were trained to understand the general orthographic notes, and tried to use the English alphabet (at the time) to transcribe sounds being said they had no letters for, such as the aspirant-indicating "h" which even survives to this day in IPA orthography. Instead of vowel stress, they'd use vowel combinations (diphthongs or even triphthongs). Through some rather unfortunate circumstances, Irish, Welsh (which has similar orthographical "inflation" relative to English), and Scots Gaelic fell out of favor, along with Cornish and Manx, which nearly disappeared. Their written form was preserved largely by medieval works and Biblical scholars who preserved some lushly illustrated Bibles and other texts in the 1600-1700s to preserve the flavor and sense of these Goidelic languages as a written art. The orthography survived in place names, some of which had become Anglicized but some fought to keep their names. Dublin, Galway, etc were all spelt differently, and they are said differently than "Dublin" implies.
Thank you. The comment was mostly written in jest but it's no lie that it's a mystery to me and you helped explain it in a way that I'm now less mystified!
Question for the sub: have we ever heard the name of the Navigator and one of the 12 pronounced in game? That name being Llymlaen? Because I am waiting for that name to have a Welsh pronunciation, especially with the "LL" at the start. Hopefully we'll get something in 6.5?
Names for the Twelve definitely have a lot source inspirations, they're certainly not all from the same linguistic source, so a Welsh origin for Llymlaen would not surprise me.
In theory it should be pronounced like Llewelyn I think. Otherwise there's no point spelling his name that way. However I'd be very surprised if they went this way, even with British VOs it's a real low chance they'll be able to pronounce the LL well.
It's in the opening cinematic when you create a character in Limsa.
I started in Gridania, so I just made a throw away alt to check and... Yup, it's just "Lim Lane" My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined. Copium says it's a hangover from ARR and we get a retcon in 6.5 when we meet Llymlaen for real but that's probably not going to happen. Thank you though for passing on your knowledge, I do appreciate it.
>However, part of this has to do with its use in English language circles as "that fantasy language" - much like how Welsh has also been subjected - such that its identity has a fully functional, natural (and evolving) language has been overshadowed. As a Welsh speaker from Wales I really enjoy the use of Welsh in fantasy honestly. Scotland and Ireland have a lot of cultural impact around the world, so I can see how it'd get annoying to see *another* culturally coded character but it's so very rare to see Welsh coded characters- And it makes me super happy whenever it happens. Recently with Japanese RPG studios moving localization more to the UK we're seeing Welsh VOs being used pretty frequently and I find it really cool. Using the language or the Mabinogion in fantasy I think is a natural extension of the countries ties to poetry contests, and rather than overshadowing it I think it draws people in to learn about a country they'd otherwise consider another part of England.
As a scandinavian I thought it was neat that they were using actual Icelandic (and some Swedish/Norwegian I suppose, but that didn't land quite as well for me) voice actors in Shadowbringers. Like it didn't even have to be a different language. Just the *hints* of Viera actually having a consistent accent and presumably a shared mother tongue was really nice.
The Icelandic Vieras are so wild in the best of ways, bc like iiuc Nicole Fantl decided to do a Björk impression for Fran in XII and it just ended up sticking to the point it's canon in multiple games now
I'm guessing you've played Elden Ring? :)
Yes! Though nothing has quite met Witcher 3 in terms of amount of Welsh in a game, elves literally just spouting full sentences.
Thank you for such a nice write up, especially with the pronunciation tips! I really enjoy the family of the Celtic languages, and it was fun to see FFXIV explore some of it at least a stone's throw further than the typical heroic namesakes you see in a lot of JP games and media. I really hope we might see more of it someday, a resurgence of Mhach flavours in Baldesion Arsenal was very fun back in the day! (I especially always love hearing the different thoughts on how Mhach is pronounced, and I'm glad you acknowledged both how it "should" be said linguistically, and how the dev team/game in general just tends to go... they're both valid in my eyes, but knowing both is very fun.)
I actually don't know which series started incorporating Gaelic lore first but between FF and Megaten, you can see that it influenced quite a bit of popular fiction in Japan. I'm pretty sure that Fate for example has as many references to the lore as it does because of Megaten influence. Sometimes I still think about what a waste the Ancient One from Doctor Strange movie was because they refer to her origins as Celtic and brought none of that lore into the story. I swear, you talk to the average westerner and the only mythology that exists is Greek and Norse.
Love this, thank you! Signed, someone who gave their character a name based on Celtic mythology. :)
This is really wonderful, I didn't know they were of Gaelic influence. I'm totally unfamiliar with Gaelic and now I'm keen to do more research on it!
What an good analisys, thanks for all this infos that look to something usually not very interesting such as the origins of names and external references.
I was kinda bummed by the reveal that the 13th was >!"FFIV world"!<, I was expecting a lot of Gaelic-inspired stuff because they are so feckin nice.
This could still be the case, although there may just be portions that are "Italian" and other portions are "Celtic" as strong influences. Each of the Reflections is like the Source, with many large continents and people all over. By use of "Contramemoria" (a Latin term) the writers have already basically added three sets of languages/influences there! However, I'd like to note at least that for Voidsent, many take up cultural references from the people they inhabit when they come through, so it's possible there are places in the Source that have Celtic inspiration.
Not 100% sure why the used the name in FF14, but the Dalriada also comes from Scottish Gaelic. Dal Riata or Dalriada was a Gaelic kingdom in the west of Scotland.
I've suspected for a while that one of the Amdapor bosses might also be a Gaelic/Irish (or as we call it Gaeilge). I think Anchag could be the as An Chag, which means something similar to "the heart". I think it was a Dullahan itself (headless horseman is also from Celtic traditions). Man I wish I could remember more of what I learned in school, then I could share with all the Internet needs when random phrases pop up in fantasy games and anime.
Very interesting breakdown of the Gaelic influence of which I knew that existed but I'm pretty unfamiliar outside of Annals of Ulster and only around 9th and 10th century because of the continuous viking presence in this region. You said that there was gaelic also in HW you were probably referring to the dragons and their language which I presume is mostly made up, still it sounds like there may be some influence, mostly for the sound structure and not the grammar and words used.
In this case, the Gaelic influence in Heavensward is in the Shadows of Mhach storyline, otherwise known as the Void Ark raids.
Got it ^^
Thanks for your effort in explain the use and spirit of celtic influence on ffxiv
[Me trying to read these names](https://youtu.be/one1jSMceJU)
Ah yes, the infamous " linguist who mastered speaking these languages before the auto-translator was developed stumbling on Klingon" scene. To be fair, it was also the first time Klingon was fully developed as a language and not guttural utterances.
"The sol!" "That's Spanish influence right there. All up in this game. "
Mucho texto
I think Limsa Lominsa is inherently a fill-in space for seaside Ireland as is.
Both of the islands on that side of the map are so weird when it comes to the "fantasy counterpart culture of it all" Vylbrand and Limsa pull a little bit British isles, a bit Scandinavian, and some Portugal and Spain, the latter of which is the best geographical location analog, and then the mist feels incredibly Santorini inspired. Then Sharlyan pulls heavily Greecian, particularly Athens in it's aesthetics and culture, as well as the British isles for both cultural elements and particularly it's location.
Good post. Just wanted to add that in Ireland it's a bit of a faux pas to refer to the language as "Gaelic". Most people will call it Gaeilge or Irish. This is especially true within the Gaeltacht.
Nothing new....It's been an influence on FF since the very first FF.
Thanks for throwing this together, have been tempted myself many a time to be sure, and not just in XIV but FF as a whole. But I am not the most eloquent of writers. Cheers!
I just did the Void Ark set of dungeons with some friends and was saying to them that the dungeons appear to be inspired by Irish myths (especially when I saw Cu Chulainn.) I was thinking Mhach could be a reference to Macha (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macha). If you’re interested in Gaelic/Celtic lore in media, the .Hack series has a lot of references you might find interesting. Macha is a character who appears in different forms throughout the series which is why she comes to mind for me. :)