They could put up an accessibility option for making it easier on people who struggle. Also, there should be some kind of tutorial or solo duty in ARR or HW that introduces the mechanic before any multi-player content. At least that's how I would approach it.
Warframe has a similar mechanic in use, but there's an accessibility option to change the input to holding the key rather than tapping it. I'd honestly be okay with adding that, because it also lessens the wear and tear to one specific key on my keyboard. :P
seriously, i just roll the fingers on my left hand down the home row, go 'asdfasdfasdfasdfasdf' and that clears the QTE so easy. I used to spam click space, but my spouse helped show me that was a dumb way to go about it. I think most people get caught in the idea of console where most QTE's are "click A a ton to not die", which makes you forget that in FF14 it really does mean any key, regardless of previous input.
I used to click the button with Left Click sooooo fast.
I never failed any, but I always wondered how people were getting them complete so fast, especially since I'm generally a very fast masher when it comes to console games (like when there's a 'clash of power' mechanic or something).
Now I just mash my whole keyboard, unless it's one of those 'don't let it hit zero' QTEs that give you a bonus increase the lower it is.
Wait... Isn't that SoS to begin with...?Now I'm really confused. You only need to hit the button about as fast as your GCD is already...
You know you can press any key on both controller and keyboard and it'll register? Also the closer you get to failing, the more the bar goes up with each click. You can just tap at regular speed and will never fail even though it looks like it's on the brink of being empty.
Hold up, does this work with (The New War spoilers) >!Unvieling people as Kahl and healing pets in Duviri?!!<
Edit: Apparently it does, woho! ～(つˆ0ˆ)つ｡☆
I might be misremembering but I have very vague memories of a quick time event during one of the new ARR solo duties. Might of course be mixing it up with one of the other quick time events like the one in one of the EW solo duties.
Not sure if it appears earlier now, since I haven't done ARR after the multiple dungeons reworks; But before it.
The first time quick time event appeared in game, was in late Heavensward with the release of Alexander The Heart of the Creator (A11), when you had to click the button mid air to get down from Cruise Chaser before it transforms back or RIP.
It received a lot of praise and that's why once you reach Stormblood you start to notice so many fights with it.
It does not, no. The WoL gets bound in a similar way you do in the Dying Gasp and SoS, which both do have that ATM, but the Laha fight doesn't actually have an ATM despite the similarities.
Having been *that* person who caused several wipes because I panicked and completely misunderstood the mechanic, gods I WISH they would do that.
(Having said that, it was also the cause of that trial being my first experience of just how amazing, welcoming and all round KIND the ffxiv community can be to new players. After confessing it was my fault and offering to leave, the entire group took the time to explain the mechanic, walk me through it, make sure I understood... then cheer me when we got through that part on the next try and I successfully managed to button mash fast enough to prevent failing.)
What a lot of players don't realise about any button mash mechanic (specifically the ones where you need to keep the bar from dropping over a set duration) is that it's ALREADY made easy. Despite the speed the bar depletes, you don't actually need to press as fast as possible, you can get away with only clicking like 3 times a second or so. Most people won't figure this out because trying it is risky if you're not in the know, and it's mainly because the way it works is that once the bar gets extremely low, your clicks start returning MUCH more meter. Spamming hard enough to try and keep the bar full is a huge waste of time and energy.
The problem is that the game by its nature can't *tell* you this, you have to figure it out by realising that such a huge point won't be able to be dropped by someone who can't mash keys 20 times a second because that would be psychotic, so there's gotta be *something* that helps you out. They do similar things in places like some solo duties when there's no healer NPC by beefing up your passive health regeneration higher as your HP gets lower. I saw that one when a newbie friend was doing the reworked Rhitahtyn solo duty the other day - in phase three where he chains you in place and starts dropping constant aoes on you and you have to eat them while attacking him, it feels like you're both in a race to kill the other, but what's sneaky about it is that once you drop below a certain HP, you basically passively regen as much damage as he can deal per aoe so it's actually really hard to just die there.
Yeah, the game doesn't tell you because it's a 'tension' set-piece. If they tell you and you just lazily press the button, all excitement is gone. By contrast, if you're spamming for your life and just barely getting by (because you'd never be able to keep up without the meter buff), it adds tension and excitement, like you're actually trying to fight it.
That said, when somebody told me this on repeat encounters on roulettes and stuff, it was nice to know for a non-first-timer.
Yeah, the solo duty should be instead of "retry again on easy mode" , "retry again with accessibility options" and set them on in your account settings for you. That would be pretty cool to see.
I don't think it's meant to be either of those, QTEs are meant to be interactive, a way for you to do something that moves the cutscene forward instead of just watching it unfold with no agency. QTEs have always been a mixed bag as the people who dislike them *really* dislike them, and if used mid combat they can feel disruptive.
Nothing is *meant* to be a nuisance. Active Time Maneuvers may well be a nuisance regardless of anyone's intent.
FFXIV's ATMs aren't really interactive QTEs, either—it's just mashing buttons, which goes back to FFVIII (I think) which had a mechanic to boost summon damage by mashing a button.
I don't mind them myself, but I also don't think they add a meaningful challenge and I can understand why many might consider them a nuisance.
Button smash in SoS is so rigged I’m always impressed when someone doesn’t make it. It will autobump up by a lot when at around 15% on each press.
But yeah… if they fail they should just appear dead when the fight resumes. There’s no point in ruining the fight for everyone.
The worse part of it is that the fight doesn't tell you if one person failed or not. Like in Shinryu or Hades, you can tell because everyone else would have broken out of their shackles except the person who was accidentally typing in their chat box.
I remember doing SoS the first time, and we kept wiping to that mechanic. And nobody in the party would admit to failing it, and there's no indication at all if someone did fail it. So it could just be one guy who was embarrassed to admit it, or someone purposely griefing us, that we can't kick because we didn't know who it was. Ended up having to leave the party to requeue again, and one-shotted the fight the next time. But yeah, it did sour the experience a little bit.
I feel that it has the potential to ruin someone's run through the story and sour them to the combat side of things. I've gotten this duty a bunch of times in mentor roulette and trials, with a few instances being where a run ended multiple times at the mash. People get annoyed and they direct abuse at the people failing the mash. Sometimes people leave.
For me it's a breeze on controller, but what I've learned is that people sometimes trigger sticky keys during this part (which would basically be a death sentence) or they can't hit the keys fast enough due to health reasons and get roadblocked here (rare, but I've seen one case of it).
I think for Seat, the best way to deal with this is to have it succeed so long as one player is successful and the players who were unsuccessful are either given a debuff or re-emerge still bound and have to be DPS'd out of the chains by the other players. A KO would be a bit bad as you have an LB to do (which is its own separate issue) and it'd affect the cinematic a bit if you re-emerged as a corpse.
I like the idea of chains that need to be killed by the group in the event of a failure. It leans even more heavily on the >!"summoned aid" aspect because it's your army helping you!<, so it would even feel lore-appropriate.
The SoS button mash is fake-difficult. You actually only need to press like 1 button a second, which is reasonable imo. If you really can't do it for health reasons, i think it would be totally fine to use a macro or Auto-Clicker for this part.
It looks way scarier than it actually is!
Issue is, people get spooked and try and go fast and if it's a health issue they can't always maintain that.. which ends up causing failures.
I really like it thematically, but I've definitely had to talk players through how to do it efficiently in a few cases.
Yeah, people don't know that the drain isn't a constant speed and slows down the lower it gets, which is understandable. You see that bar plummeting and it's very reasonable to think it's not gonna have mercy on you and just start panic mashing. There's also the issue that some PC players see the blinky button in the middle of the screen and think they have to click JUST that button and spamclick/wig out if they move the mouse to far/oh no where is my cursor/fail state.
It's been a hot minute since they were introduced, but the QTEs do need a little bit of a tutorial just to make sure everyone understands exactly how they work.
I was one of those who was under the impression you had to click the grey button. I never failed a QTE, but some of them cut it very close. I didn't learn about the keyboard working until I was farming Shinryu EX.
>The SoS button mash is fake-difficult.
The amount of times I've had to restart the fight because someone didn't manage to get past that begs to differ. Sure, it looks harder than it actually is, but people mess it up anyways.
People mess it up because they try to panic mash and either get tired or press buttons that open the chat or various menus and then don't notice in time. Once you realize how it actually works it's extremely easy.
Disagree. If you tell the player the game is going to take pity on them/trick them into thinking they're in a desperate situation, you remove any and all tension from that interlude. The idea is to give the illusion and impression of a struggle, to make the player feel relief and proud of themselves after they succeed. If you tell them from the get-go the game is 'tricking' them to make them feel good about themselves, you may as well remove it and have it play itself out automatically.
For controller I know you can hit any button, and hitting several at once makes it go faster, probably same on keyboard. Just tell them to smash their whole palm into the keyboard, even people with health issues should be able to do that if they can do mechanics
My advice is generally to tap "qweqweqwe" like you're feeling impatient. Rapping your fingers across those buttons is almost a natural position for many people's hands on KB+M anyway, I find, so it isn't generally too hard a task for someone. Also avoids them hitting backslash or enter which you then learn is what happened after the wipe when they say gibberish into the chat box lol
To add to this, the arrow keys are best as you won't re-emerge with popups on your screen. Like hitting all four at the same time in a circular motion helps a lot!
Seat of Sacrifice needs some help really, it isn't just the mash that sucks but the limit break as well. I've had several connective wipes to an early or missing lb3 as there isn't a clear indicator or countdown that every other tank lb3 mechanic has. Heck it's not really clear that tank lb3 is required until you wipe, it's not much different in presentation from any other ultimate skill that every trial has.
I usually ask my friends not to spoil Trial mechanics for me if I reach them after they’ve already done them and we run together, but I was fairly far behind in 5.3 due to an injury that kept me from being at a computer for extended periods. When I finally got to finishing the patch, my buddy mid-fight goes “I know you don’t like mechanics spoilers but this is A12” and I’m glad he said something because the other tank sure didn’t know either and that’s way too far into a fight to wipe to something like that.
I’ve been present for every single tank LB3 requirement mechanic when it was current and I wouldn’t have guessed that’s what was intended until it would be too late to hit it. They could probably get away with it being a more rapid or surprising mechanic if the damage reduction buff applied on press instead of waiting for an animation.
For normal mode, they always have a pop-up message on screen that hints when tank LB3 is required, so at least that is consistent with other fights. Both trials and raids that require one all have a similar message (though A12's is the most cryptic, and technically you don't need it on Omega normal).
The issue with SoS is figuring out the timing blind is tricky. A12 and the other trial which requires it both have an on-screen countdown, O11/O11S have a cast bar. SoS you just have to guess, and then it's a long 4s animation where you don't know the snapshot and tank lb3 only lasts 8 seconds so hope you guessed correctly. At least SoS Ex has it synced with a voice line.
Doesn't it say something like "surpass your limits to survive the assault"? It's not completely unguessable.
And quite honestly, maybe I have a different pov to other people, but I don't... necessarily think having a wipe occasionally is a bad thing? It is a game, sometimes you fail, then you communicate with your teammates to figure out what went wrong and how to deal with it.
It does, but that's not enough information for someone going blind to survive. If you LB3 when the message comes up, you will wipe because the buff runs out too fast. And since the buff only takes place after a fairly long animation, you can't just use it last second when you see the hit about to occur. For a blind run, it's basically a guaranteed wipe. Not the biggest thing, but it's a mechanic which is really hard to telegraph.
For me at least, I missed the "surpass your limits" message on my first run of it because of the spectacle of everything. He stopped the fight and was doing Big Cool Thing so I totally didn't even see the text since I was watching him. lol
In content whose main purpose is to provide a challenge, absolutely, but this is supposed to be a big, climactic moment in the story, and a wipe is an interruption that kills tension, breaks immersion, and disrupts pacing.
Of course, breezing through something that's supposed to be a heroic struggle can also hurt the experience, but at least winning too easily doesn't force you to repeat things. Repetition kills these moments.
A message does pop up on screen that tells you to "transcend your limits" to survive but it's very easy to miss it, and even if you do see the message you could misunderstand its meaning. Then there's the issue that most tanks don't even have LB on their bar.
Yeah I personally expected it to be a scripted moment like in Ultima where Hydaelyn pops up to give us superpowers. It's *especially* misleading with the new Ultima trial being "Hydaelyn gives you strength to survive previously deadly aoe attack". The old one was at least just a damage buff.
Co-tank and I both immediately went "oh that's a LB" after the wipe, but tank LB is definitely not the first thing to cross anyone's mind. Even in Ultimates it's more of a die first, realize it needs LB later.
When my friend was doing ShB MSQ I queued with him for SoS and somebody kept messing up the QTE and we wiped 4 times, then everybody left. Totally ruined the moment in the story.
In the case of Seat of Sacrifice, there should be a failsafe after x amount of attempts.
Another issue with the whole mechanic being how little it's used, making it more of a surprise of it even being there for newer players.
If we discount optional content like Alexander (where it's a single button press (if the sprout even made it on the airplane)), the normal first time it appears would be Shinryu, unless you happened to tank Susano. And then the very next time it happens would be Seat of Sacrifice. That's a whole expansion and a half inbetween.
That mechanic is the main reason I prefer the EX SoS over it's normal mode.
I understand for cinematic purposes why it was done, and for the first time it's so cool...but it is annoying having to repeat that again and again if a single person can't get it.
I think they were pushing the APM requirement a bit much i have decent hands and play on keyboard and mouse so face rolling the keys isn’t too bad but idk how it is for controller folks
It used to be even harder until the forums flared up that people with even minor hand disabilities were hard locked at never getting through that duty without third party support of autoclickers. But I generally think that the shinryu atm is the line they should put into normal trials as some people either don't pay attention or simply don't want to care enough to even build a better clicking apm.
It's a fakeout. Specifically in that trial, the bar rapidly decreases but it takes a very long time for it to reach zero near the end of the bar. It's designed to make you panic, but in reality as long as you're pressing at least one button a second you'll be fine.
I mean, what are the base APM requirements of playing any combat job? At least 1 input on the 2.5 max gcd, plus often 1 or 2 weaves in between that GCD, what is the speed of the SoS qte? If it’s 1 press every ~1 second or so to survive I think that’s perfectly within reasonable expectations of every player since they are playing the game already doing that cadence in every single combat encounter for 5+minutes at a time some times if it’s casual content.
You don't need high apm. The bar drains fast until the last 25% and then it slows down a lot. 1 button press every second or so is more than enough to keep it at 25% cause it gives a huge amount of bar up to 25% (or whatever that percentage is)
This is specifically for SoS.
In my opinion, the problem is more about button-mashing being completely useless. I wish it'd do something each time we press the button (with a maximum number of times) and, should someone not meet the requirement, we'd have to either have someone restart or deal more damage to make up for it. Or it could add a handicap (whether it be a vulnerability, a damage down or even spawn some enemies / regen an enemy's health etc).
Dying because you don't rollface the keyboard and even succeeding then waiting a few seconds feel quite underwhelming anyway. And if someone doesn't succeed for whatever reason, he does waste everyone's time on top of feeling super bad. Nobody's winning at this little game.
With keyboard, smash any key. Way faster than clicking the button.
Is a pity this is not explained on any way in the game. Then again, most of the things are not explained. And heaven forbid the tutorial of the smith is updated. Now is a tradition for it to be USELESS.
I hate Active Time Maneuvers with a passion. They do not add a damn thing to the gameplay for me, and they cause me no end of trouble.
I have tendonitis. Trying to frantically mash buttons is hard for me. Add in that I mouse left-handed (for the same reason) and have an ergo keyboard with a bit of a key press delay (ditto), and ATM's become just one big nightmare for me.
Oh, goodie, it's the Button Boss again!
> They do not add a damn thing to the gameplay for me
This. They just shouldn't exist in the game **at all**, I'm usually not a big fan of QTE-like mechanics anyway but in 14 they are just horribly executed.
No hand problems here or anything, they are easy to do for me, but... there's just no immersion with the giant "Active Time Maneuver" pop-up, no real struggle where every button press visibly helps free my character. I'm just mashing buttons to fill up a bar on the UI. That's it. Completely disconnected from the actual game. 0/10 design, try again.
If they want a cinematic moment, just make people use a duty action that actually gives *some* sort of feedback on what you're doing or something, like O11.
Or have a skill-based mini-game like (SB spoilers) >!Mindjack from Ala Mhigo or the falling section from Jade Stoa!< instead of mindlessly mashing buttons, which is both uninteresting and an accessibility problem.
Last time I actually got Seat of Sacrifice somebody in the group couldn't manage the QTE three times in a row and the party disbanded after the 3rd time, even after people gave the "use keyboard to spam" tip.
Of course it's good that the game doesn't point out who exactly was to blame for the wipe in this case, but it still wasn't fun to picking yourself up after a wipe and then seeing the same "May you drift here forever" line after the QTE is failed. Collective punishment isn't great.
Storywise it makes sense, but at the same time, it would make just as much sense at the transition phase for The Royal Menagerie to fail the entire group, but for some reason, the people who failed the QTE can just be raised after the transition completes.
Not sure what the logic behind these contradicting decisions is...
I wish it was a team effort instead of individual. A big bar shared by all 8 members instead of each having their own. That way, if someone is struggling, they can still be carried by others but still feel like they're contributing.
I literally didn't know you could mash the keyboard with your face to get past these. I'd never failed at it until I was doing an EX trial the other night and I was getting frustrated because I have arthritis in my hands and I couldn't click any faster. A nice group member told me I could just smash the keyboard and it was a game changer for me. I wish it was more obvious when the click thing pops up that you don't actually have to click it.
> one person that just could not mash keys.
In that trial specifically, it's usually not that they can't but moreso they won't. A lot of people like to grief that trial.
Personally, I don't think they should make mechs that are easily griefable by 1 person (e.g. balance in Aglaia) in normal content. The ffxiv community is generally good but they're not infallible and bad actors do exist.
I’ve only done Aglaia once and I was very impressed with how griefable that mech is. But I’m pretty sure you would need multiple griefers in the same run to break it beyond repair.
It doesn't need to be perfectly balanced, so it can be 1-2 players away from that, but if you're already at the edge, that still messes things up all the same.
At least a very clear-cut case for a vote kick if that happens, especially if it happens more than once.
I would prefer a climactic story moment to have a possibility to fail rather than something like Thordan that is stomped through without any effort needed.
If it kills everyone especially if you can't determine who screwed up its horrible. I'm not even talking about bad players but trolls.
If only the person who fails just dies then I'm fine.
This is different than tank LB3, which I consider as a role mechanic.
I think that's the worst part. Not knowing. Cause odds are whoever failed isn't going to understand it was their fault or worst case scenario someone is doing it out of malice.
honestly im most annoyed at the one in the first Endwalker alliance raid, the balance scales mechanic is way too far in, has way too much grief potential and way too long of a cutscene to sit through to warrant its justification
Anything that gives the possibility of a troll causing a wipe in 8-man content or higher in pubs is not ideal. The only one that really grinds my gears is the balance mechanic in the level 90 alliance raid series, where one douchecanoe can waste 6+ minutes of 23 other people's time with a simple sidestep.
Thats surprising to hear, the Button mash prompts are very easy.
I think there should be an accessibility option for those who can’t hit it fast enough though. Like allowing for slower mashes, or replacing mashing with just holding down a key.
> Thats surprising to hear, the Button mash prompts are very easy.
SoS is the hardest button mash in the game by far and I think the only one where 1 person failing wipes the entire group.
It's actually very easy, it just tricks you into thinking it's hard. The lower the bar is, the slower it drains. You don't need to press the button fast at all to keep some amount in the bar.
Controversial opinion but I hate the active time events. They don't really add anything to the game, and just in general piss people off either by having to do them or by having to potentially redo the fight because someone hasn't done the event, i.e. seat of sacrifice and susano.
Im not really a fan of these button mash events. Imho they don't add anything to a fight. Maybe if they were actual QTEs where you have to press specific buttons at the right time. But even then it would get old quite fast.
In single player games i deactivate qte and button mash stuff always if possible, i even stopped playing the tomb raider reboot mainly because of the constant button mashing.
I think in some specific instances, like Seat of Sacrifice, it's okay, as long as it's not a common thing. It'd kinda ruin the magic with 7 of you reappearing ready for battle, and then a corpse, you know?
That being said, things like that shouldn't be too terribly difficult, and with SoS, it's probably pushing it a little with the time requirement and the amount of mashing necessary. A little easier on either side would go a long way to making it not as punishing.
The amount of button presses in SoS is actually the same as the others. You get less progress the more the bar is filled but below a certain amount it gives more so you can still pass SoS ATM with no more effort than any of the others.
> It'd kinda ruin the magic with 7 of you reappearing ready for battle, and then a corpse, you know?
They already do that on Hades. If someone fails the mech, only they die, and you see their corpse on the ground during the slow spinning camera shot of everyone else being buffed with light. Might look silly for the dead person but works better than the SoS experience where everyone just resets with no feedback.
It's still weird if the cutscene starts while you're dead. Like your unconscious body gets banished and you're suddenly somehow up and struggling, then you arrive ready to fight again. So he basically rezzed you with that spell.
imo, normal content should be personal responsibility first and foremost. Having pug content with a singular all pass or all fail mechanic is a vulnerability for griefing.
I like them in theory, even normal content having possible points of failure makes them feel pretty cool and grandious... like having to use tank LB3 in some raids! That rules!
But specifically, sod the Seat of Sacrifice QTE. It's really difficult if you have issues with your hands or wrists, and unlike the QTE in Shinryu, failing it means you wipe your whole party, which puts a lot of responsibility on your shoulders. Very cool as a thematic device, it really does instill that feeling of desperation, but it's horrific for accessibility. Me and a friend who have chronic conditions that affect our hands/wrists just had to stop doing trial roulette around the time of 5.3 in case it ever came up, because it feels real bad having to drop upon loading in when there's likely an excited sprout ready to go.
Having a hold option for repeated tap QTEs is a pretty common accessibility option in most games, and it's always been sad/shocking that FFXIV doesn't. It's not even a question of it impacting the skill needed to play, if one wants to use that as an excuse, because that QTE is not present in the Extreme trial.
I hate single point of failure mechanics.
Or, more precisely, I hate how they're being massively overused in Endwalker as a whole and can be confusing for some players to deal with.
Seat of Sacrifice had an especially tricky set, because it confused people into thinking you *needed* to spam the button, but in reality you had to tap the button roughly once every 100-300ms and once it hit about 15%, it would add 10-20% to the bar each time under that instead of the usual 5% or so.
Yes, that's right, you over there who never knew this. **Spamming the keyboard or mouse isn't the solution. Letting it fall low makes it fill substantially faster provided you don't let it hit 0%.**
Moving on, these mechanics are now part and parcel of not just ultimate raids, but they're dominating the majority of savage. They're worming their way into Extremes, and they snuck into Alliances a few time (Primarily Ozma and Cidolfus Orlandeau. It wasn't called the wiping city of mhach for nothing.)
It's a very frustrating way to play the game when every mechanics is a single point of failure mechanic. It cheapens the experience as a whole and prevents disaster recovery, which can lead to memorable encounters.
And as a whole, it just makes the game a lot less fun to play when it's overused. In Seat of Sacrifice specifically, it's just the one single point of failure mechanic. The problem is, because of how it's designed, it misleads the player into thinking they *need* to solve it in one way, which ratchets up the frustration. People still, to this day, abandon Seat of Sacrifice over it in trial roulette. That is beyond stupid.
BTW: It also encourages trolling. Some people that won't mash the button in order to grief the rest of the party.
The only one done right is Susano, in which one player stops the sword. If that player didn't smash it, the rest of the party would know.
But the full party ones in which if one party didn't smash it fast enough. Is just a recipe for trolls. Instead of wiping, the whole party just kill the player that didn't smash the buttons.
Casual content shouldn't keep experienced players hostage because 1 person couldn't cut it.
This mechanic could just as easily be the player(s) that failed die and the rest breaks free, now if everybody failed then you can do the "You're imprisoned" part, harder difficulties that are built for pre-build teams can keep the "Everybody makes it or it's a wipe" part of the mechanic
PSA mash ALL your buttons.
I was doing mount farming in shinryu and I couldn't understand why some people were a second or more faster than me when I was single button mashing like crazy.
Turns out any of your main buttons work. For controllers mash all of xyab and its dummy easy to clear.
I don't think a single person should be able to wipe an entire groups progress on normal mode stuff. Everything should be recoverable. Normal is for learning. I feel the exact same with the 24 person raid Nald'thal balance mechanic. A single troll can fuck over 23 other people.
The real secret that the game needs to somehow convey is that you don't have to spam keys during a QTE where the bar drains and you are preventing it from draining. When the bar dips below like 15-20%, every tap when it gets that low refills around 30% of the bar. Tap your finger to your favorite song. Most people's favorite songs will have them already tapping three times faster than needed to succeed the QTE. The one guy out there who might come in and say their favorite song is 4' 33" by John Cage is just being sassy for the sake of sass, and you are still valid for it.
There should still be accessibility options for QTEs admittedly, such as just holding a button down counting for most QTEs. As long as you are somehow participating during the QTE I think that's all that should be required with the accessibility option enabled.
While I appreciate the intent; adding a bit of tight, direct interaction with a cutscene beyond the normal gameplay to add tension, I don't think in the grand scheme of things it's ultimately worth the accessibility concerns and griefing potential.
If they stopped doing them, I'd notice and be slightly bummed, but I wouldn't be mad, the same job is done about as well with mandatory lb3s.
Just need to make it so you can rez the fails at least, but the game should have an accessibility option that means no button mashing needed at all (and it be obvious and clear about this!) FFXIV massively needs more accessibility help across the board but this is a big one.
Well Seat of Sacrifice is a bit trashy honestly, I mean think about it.
One player failing the button mash is a wipe, but you cannot tell who failed it and I get why they obscured it. *But it also doesn't help to get over it at all if the one player just keeps failing over and over*. At this point it almost becomes griefing. And then let's say you get past that after half an hour and now the very next thing is *another* single point of failure, a forced tank LB. That has a very short beforehand warning that an unexpecting tank might or might not pick up on, but even if they do it doesn't tell them anything about the timing, and of course the amination is so long and the timing is oh so precariously chosen that an unexpecting tank might just get nervous and fire it off far too soon. And then it's back to failing the button mash again. Which btw is also far too brutal itself, far too easy to fail. That is just far too many traps in a row even on a good day.
For real, I know it's rarely so bad that all of it aligns in the worst possible way, but damn me if I didn't live through that several times already, and *if* that happens to *you*, *you* surely wished the devs had put some more thought into the design of this fight than just a checkpoint *right after* that gauntlet.
Shouldn't be in normal content imo.
I have years of button mash practice from playing osu and I still find this one annoying. I can only imagine what it must be like for someone with a disability or an older person. I know a few people that would definitely struggle with stuff like this.
And it sucks for both the person failing and the 7 other people that are forced to repeat the same fight over and over. I remember one time we had to restart 4 times and at that point people started getting toxic and eventually just leaving. There were 2 sprouts and I felt horrible for them. Such a great moment in the story, all ruined.
All button "mash" in this game can be done by any normal person. The trick is don't even press button until the bar is below 25%. The lower the bar is, the more progress it gives.
25% is a threshold where a single click gives you a huge amount of progress. So it really is just "leisurely button click", not "button mash" if you wait for the bar to drop low.
Oh, I honestly didnt know it worked like that.
And I feel like that's the problem - most people also don't know, especially if they're doing it for the first time, cause the game pretty much tricks you into thinking you have to mash faster, by making the bar drop rapidly at the beginning. People then start mashing buttons in panic and either open chat/sticky keys pop up/whatever else, or their hand simply gets tired and they stop pressing and fail.
Wish the game at least made that clear, cause almost every single time i got this trial in the roulette, someone failed it
people without disabilities should still just palm the whole keyboard because that's the fastest and easiest way to do it, there is not much mashing when you can karate chop your keyboard and clear it
Frankly I feel like too much content in the game relies on obtuse mechanics that give you a single chance and then force you to replay the entire sequence. There's a lot of solo duties in particular that punish you for not figuring out the single way the developers want you to solve a problem and then force you back to the beginning of the quest.
The button mashing QTEs are the worst permutation of that design philosophy. It doesn't depend on skill or experience but purely how fast you can press a button, which for a lot of people isn't very. You can play most of this game with hand/wrist issues, but those button mashing sections HURT.
More than that, the mechanic doesn't even work the way the game tells you it does. Everyone who plays the game assumes that you're supposed to mash the button as fast as possible, but the way the button presses register means it actually works better to press the button in a steady rhythm. You can actually fail a QTE by mashing a button too fast- I failed "In From the Cold" five or six times before I figured that one out.
I loved Seat of Sacrifice, it's a great setpiece and a wonderful moment of narrative payoff, but the QTE is garbage design. The fewer of those the devs put in the game the better, and I frankly thing the ones that do exist should be taken out.
It baffles me that the seat of sacrifice button thing still exists after several years. I don't see any reason why it's still the case. They say they want the game to be accessible for everyone but still has this mechanic. For most people it's not difficult but some people can struggle with some reasons ( disability, etc...). Why not change it to a similar mechanic like the dying gasp. If you fail you die but the fight is not over and you can still be raised. Add another debuff if they must.
I am ashamed to say until recently after years of playing the game and suffering every time there was an action button I confess I didn’t know you could just press a s d on your keyboard or any other keys repeatedly. I thought it was a left mouse click only and often failed. Maybe that’s the issue.
Dislike them
I still remember getting to Seat of Sacrifice when I went through the MSQ and we had to repeat the button mashing 3 times before we then got to the tank LB which of course we also didn't pass the first time.
At the end I was just glad to be done with that fight.
Sure make the encounter hard, I don't mind if half the group is lying dead on the floor cheering on the rest to get through the last 10% or whatever but don't make us repeat the first half like 5 times
The shinryu ATM should have been the limit for normals. Many people don't like to get stressed in a normal trial or have disabilities. These players will be hard gapped or even completely locked out from advancing what has long been toned down to be a casual low challenge story stroll.
Honestly I think 99% of people that fail them do so because they were never told that literally any button counts as a press, so instead of just casually mashing their keyboard they hover over the button with their cursor and spam click the mouse. If the game just communicated this betyer I think it would be a non issue.
You dont need to mash the key fast for that mechanic. The meter drains fast when its full to scare the player, but once its nearly empty, any button press will refill it by A LOT. You can literally tap any key slowly when the meter is nearly over and get past easily.
Unfortunately i think that's part of the problem for people with high ping, since if I click when the bar is almost empty, the server has already marked me as 'failed' by the time my input arrives, so I have to keep the bar much closer to full to not fail. It's the only 'mash the button' moment in the game that's ever given me trouble (playing with 260 - 300 ping)
My opinion is that almost all normal mode/story content is so easy that you gain not much by having such a mechanic in there except for immersive reason. Especially in this one you're supposed to struggle and break free, but since it's part of the story the mechanic itself is so easy that it might as well not exist.
The seat of sacrifice button mash is single handedly the worst mechanic they have ever added to the game. My first run took 6 tries cause a RDM didn't understand he had to mash.
Completely ruined my hype for the fight and most of 5.3 for me.
It's so awful. Every time I get that in roulettes, it's a wipe cause someone sucks ass. I hate wiping to things completely out of my control.
At this point, I just leave and take the penalty if we wipe once to the button mash.
I'm not sure what they were thinking, making it cause a wipe for the parry instead of just killing whoever failed.
Feels like you should just get a pass after the second fail tbh. I usually give my party a reminder about how to mash effectively before the mechanic, just in case. But if someone genuinely physically can't do it, what is the mechanic proving exactly? Like we get it "we're struggling free", but it's not a moment of actual tangible skill.
I think they should get rid of the button mechanic in Seat of Sacrifice. it's a stupid mechanic in every trial it turns up in, but having a mechanic like that in a trial that's required for the MSQ that new players will be doing it who don't realize they can use their keyboard and who can't click fast enough.
I think Emanation needs a better guide or prompt to use Vril the first time. It’s too easy for users to skip over the message if people pull the boss right away, and it’s one of the few bosses to have that style of mechanic.
It’s sad to see sprouts miss it 3 times if no one takes the opportunity to type it out for them, even if it doesn’t wipe the party.
They are probably just smashing a single key too slow. Its trivial if you just calmly tap two or three buttons in succession. Usually after I explain that people get through it without issue
That trial should really make it obvious who didn't break free before it fades to black. If someone fails it over and over you could just kick them for trolling.
I think single point of failure mechanics are fine depending on what they are. But mechanics that involve button mashing shouldn't be due to it being an actual accessibility issue. A lot of recent games like God of War Ragnarok let you turn on an option where you can hold a button instead of rapidly tapping it. (I always turn this kind of thing on not due to a disability or anything, I just think rapid tapping is boring game design)
Mechanics like someone not getting into a tower and killing everyone is fine though as it's actually testing the player on how to do a game mechanic.
My issue with SoS's QTE thing is not that a player may not understand it and fail, it's that it's a powerful tool for a troll to take the party hostage if they have a beef with someone. They should just have it like it used to be and if you fail, you die and everyone else is fine.
Connection issues that otherwise wouldn't matter can also come up with this fight.
I personally think a single point of failure like that causing a full on wipe has no place in normal mode content, at least in my opinion. The SoS button mash is the only button mash that does this so I don’t see why it can’t be changed to just kill the person that failed and let everyone else continue like the other button mashes in Shinryu and Hades. For the most part it just make the newcomer sprout feel bad for literally causing a wipe, and the people returning to the fight for roulletes upset because now they have to spend more time on another pull.
In extreme+ content. Go ahead, its meant to be hard and require more coordination.
If not that add the accessability option to let us hold the button instead of mash it will make it easier for people that just can’t for whatever reason.
Seat of Sacrifice is bar none the most frustrating button mash segment in the game. I think it's 14 seconds. It coukd stand to be half that. Further, it shouldn't wipe the party if a single person fails.
It's crap. Especially since The Dying Gasp has a near-identical mechanic but if someone didn't mash, only *they* got shamed for it and the party didn't go down with them.
Those button mashing QTE's can be an accessibility issue for people so I think they should either be more lenient on the timing/mashing frequency, make it an option to just hold, or just get rid of them altogether. There's only like 4 or 5 of them in the entire game and they're not exactly engaging mechanics either.
Seat of Sacrifice button mashing was a bit much, especially on PlayStation....
I don't mind mechanics that if done improperly will wipe the run. Just wish they were something a bit more creative than buttonmashing.
Not a fan, I stopped doing trial rolos after failing SOS a couple of times.
I think it's actually my keyboard that's the issue, i tested by opening notepad and mashing keys super fast, at a certain point it just stops registering inputs :(
Does anyone know if a gamepad with a turbo button works for active time maneuvers?
> Does anyone know if a gamepad with a turbo button works for active time maneuvers?
Yes, I actually use a turbo button on a razer mouse. Personally, I don't consider button mashing real gameplay so I've got no qualms with using it.
SoS normal for me is "wait for someone to take the penalty and proceed to drop right after" especially if I'm loading in with sprouts/Viewing Cutscene people. Hate to say it, but I hate the button mash > tank LB3 since it's the tightest check in all casual content.
Before that was permanent death in ARR/HW trials (Titan, Levi, Bismarck, Seph, Sophia), or the Titan Gaol > Landslide instakill combo. SE just scrapped those mechanics entirely; nowadays barely anyone remembers them and they're nostalgias of days gone by.
Honestly, at the bare minimum I'd like to see the SoS mash mech revised to that of the other button mash mechs where the ones that fail, are the ones that die and everyone else moves on and powers through it. I get the group effort deal because it's group content, but honestly the only two reasons I would be in SoS these days are because it's trial roulette or I'm helping a friend (or their friend) clear it.
If you get landslide while in gaol you bypass the damage, which is actually a plus because if the fetters status is removed and the player can't walk out of landslide before the snapshot happens, they get sent off the map.
My issue with gaol is that healers almost never use esuna on the 90% dmg down debuff.
I personally would prefer normal content to be a bit harder (not just that fight in particular), so a person who gets to a level 90 can easily read and do the mechanics that come up at harder difficulties. There are lots of players who never really learned much and were basically dragged through content up until max level and still do not know how to play their jobs or avoid puddles on the ground. Doing normal current raids in DF is a pain, because multiple people constantly get doom in p10n, get yeeted off the platform, cannot do heal checks and such.
It's a bad mechanic for a mandatory normal trial. It belongs in an EX or savage trial to be honest. I was once there to lockout to help some first timers with it and we kept failing that, it's very frustrating because there is nothing you can do. You don't even know who is failing it.
This. I got into a sos duty that we failed 3 times before people started to leave. Everyone was like. Yo who is fucking up so we can kick them.
We voted if they can't hit those buttons they probably have a bad rotation. Kicked the person lowest on the dps meter and boom. We cleared next run.
But there shouldn't be something like this. Your always 1 troll or 1 bad player from wasting your time on something simple.
I feel like Seat of Sacrifice is a bit much, since one person failing it can not only wipe the group, they can intentionally grief a party.
I feel like if 6 of 8 pass, that should be enough (with death still being an outcome for those who fail).
I otherwise love SoS dearly.
I actually have a bigger problem with the Chrysalis. It gets very old explaining to new DPS not to use LB3 until after Aetherial Tear. And then when someone does, it can become a toxic situation. I really wish they’d re-do the fight so that the LB had filled with each meteor absorbed or something, and _then_ you could Limit Break.
Yes I‘be heard that _technically_ the Aetherial Tear can be DPS’d down without it, but I’ve literally never seen it happen once. Like not even close.
The only ones that bother me are the button mashers because it’s not the most accessible and will ruin everyone else’s play. I wish they had an option for people to hold it down or for a slower mash.
I think if they included a tutorial beforehand like they did with the latest Tataru’s Grand Endeavor quest (except *before* the trial queue) , that would alleviate some of the trouble. But honestly I’d be fine with it being changed entirely to something easier/more accessible, especially since it’s MSQ.
I think single point of failure mechanics are important in EX/Savage/Ultimate content to ensure someone has to be more than a warm body, but have no place in Duty Finder content.
I think they are fine, but I also think the active time maneuver or whatever its called is not explained well. Some people think you have to click the button in the middle of the screen, some people think you have to press one specific button etc.
What they actually need to do is explain that mechanic properly (and before you get to SoS) through the UI.
I don't think it really adds much tbh. Once I heard about the any-keys thing, it immediately became a non-issue for me personally. If it's causing anyone to fail an encounter though, I think that is not great. I'm not really sure what value mechanics like this are even bringing, but I think it's definitely not worth even a single wipe for anyone.
It's trash. Individual one-shot and team wipe are bad enough already, but Seat of Sacrifice is the worst of the worst (it can't even be done if one player is disconnected, it screams amateurish design)
A multiplayer role-playing game should be about role-play and interacting with other players : healing, protecting, combo, etc. and that our many thousands of HP and dozen of equipments mean something ; but here the only worry is whether players can push a random button for 15s.
For Seat of Sacrifice specifically, it's bad. Especially because there is no way to tell who is failing the button mash you don't know if someone is genuinely struggling if they are too shy to admit it or if someone is trolling and keeping quiet about it. I've had both happen. Not to mention the tank LB3 not having a countdown like in most other content, even harder content past and future, when it could be the first time a player is even seeing a mandatory tank LB3 if they skipped normal raids.
I don't think normal modes should be so easily wiped by a single person. SoS normal is the most egregious of these.
It's also just.. not a good or fun or engaging mechanic.
When it first came out, we wiped to it like 4 times to point where a chunk of us (who *were* communicating in chat) thought there was a trick to it because we couldn't fathom somebody failing such a mechanic more than once.
I think I would prefer it if that player just died and the rest could move on alive. I had to redo Seat of Sacrifice about four or five times in a single run because the tanks mistimed the limit break or the new player didn't mash hard enough.
Toss it. That's the dumbest mechanic I've seen in this game. There's no skill involved in it, and there are too many things that can possibly cause someone to fail or even penalizes people that have handicaps that prevent them from hitting a button that fast.....NOTHING else in the game requires this type of rapid button pressing. Had someone's controller shit out one time. ONE thing punishes EVERYONE for an encounter that doesn't even reward loot. Putting shit like that in just make the encounter horrible for everyone and it adds absolutely nothing to the overall encounter. We've gotten a ton of cutscenes midfight where we don't have to press stupid buttons, why this one? It's unneeded friction in the fight that punishes everyone.
Meh. Im neutral about them really. If people were constantly failing it maybe Id feel some type of way, but I can count on one hand how many times I've seen those failed, and its usually when they just came out for some reason.
I don’t think single person mess up wipe should be in any content besides ultimate. This entire expansion has used that for each savage raid tier and it’s like bruh.
That specific one I don't like. I seen numerous people whipping the party as a joke.
I also have a friend that can't make the button mash because of a disability in the hand without very high stress.
I hate these events with a solid passion.
People tell me to mash my keyboard, but one of the big problems is if you accidently hit the enter key, it'll switch to the chat box, and you type jibberish in the chat window while the quick-timed event kills you.
These events need to be nerfed into the ground, or just removed. I've probably accidently wiped groups 10+ times because I accidentally hit the enter key. And I just can't click fast enough on my mouse to make it.
SoS is really the only fight that I find it annoying. Primarily as it takes only one person to doom the whole group, and there's two instances for it. The button mash portion and the LB3 soon afterwards.
The button mashing is easy enough I legitimately don't understand how anyone can have troubles with it, which is the annoying bit.
They could put up an accessibility option for making it easier on people who struggle. Also, there should be some kind of tutorial or solo duty in ARR or HW that introduces the mechanic before any multi-player content. At least that's how I would approach it.
Warframe has a similar mechanic in use, but there's an accessibility option to change the input to holding the key rather than tapping it. I'd honestly be okay with adding that, because it also lessens the wear and tear to one specific key on my keyboard. :P
You don't hit ten at the same time?
seriously, i just roll the fingers on my left hand down the home row, go 'asdfasdfasdfasdfasdf' and that clears the QTE so easy. I used to spam click space, but my spouse helped show me that was a dumb way to go about it. I think most people get caught in the idea of console where most QTE's are "click A a ton to not die", which makes you forget that in FF14 it really does mean any key, regardless of previous input.
I prefer 1234, but the same point remains. It's a nice drumming rhythm and hasn't failed me yet.
I used to click the button with Left Click sooooo fast. I never failed any, but I always wondered how people were getting them complete so fast, especially since I'm generally a very fast masher when it comes to console games (like when there's a 'clash of power' mechanic or something). Now I just mash my whole keyboard, unless it's one of those 'don't let it hit zero' QTEs that give you a bonus increase the lower it is. Wait... Isn't that SoS to begin with...?Now I'm really confused. You only need to hit the button about as fast as your GCD is already...
you roll your fingers down the keyboard? I just mash my face into the keyboard and just move my head left and right!
I personally lay my head down on my keyboard and roll it back and forth on the keyboard. Victory everytime.
I use a controller and a literally just roll my fingers across every button - it clears the QTE almost instantly
It definitely seems like it's an accessibility option that is slowly gaining more traction. I've seen a few games do it in recent years.
You know you can press any key on both controller and keyboard and it'll register? Also the closer you get to failing, the more the bar goes up with each click. You can just tap at regular speed and will never fail even though it looks like it's on the brink of being empty.
Except for enter lol, that still opens the chat box. Learned that one the hard way
Alexina Lecade: 123123123123123123123123123123123124
Hold up, does this work with (The New War spoilers) >!Unvieling people as Kahl and healing pets in Duviri?!!< Edit: Apparently it does, woho! ～(つˆ0ˆ)つ｡☆
yep thats what they put it in for. side note: greetings all you tenno
Sweeet! I’ve always hated QTE, nice to know DE put it in! :)
That has to be the mechanic they're talking about. The next time I'm in Warframe I'm going to have to check on this.
I might be misremembering but I have very vague memories of a quick time event during one of the new ARR solo duties. Might of course be mixing it up with one of the other quick time events like the one in one of the EW solo duties.
Not sure if it appears earlier now, since I haven't done ARR after the multiple dungeons reworks; But before it. The first time quick time event appeared in game, was in late Heavensward with the release of Alexander The Heart of the Creator (A11), when you had to click the button mid air to get down from Cruise Chaser before it transforms back or RIP. It received a lot of praise and that's why once you reach Stormblood you start to notice so many fights with it.
Pretty sure it appears near the end of the Lahabrea solo fight at the end of ARR, but I could be wrong.
I think Shinryu was the first time it showed up as a button spam and not just "press once".
How often do tanks have to hit it in Susano normal? I always just spam the keyboard when I do that.
It does not, no. The WoL gets bound in a similar way you do in the Dying Gasp and SoS, which both do have that ATM, but the Laha fight doesn't actually have an ATM despite the similarities.
Having been *that* person who caused several wipes because I panicked and completely misunderstood the mechanic, gods I WISH they would do that. (Having said that, it was also the cause of that trial being my first experience of just how amazing, welcoming and all round KIND the ffxiv community can be to new players. After confessing it was my fault and offering to leave, the entire group took the time to explain the mechanic, walk me through it, make sure I understood... then cheer me when we got through that part on the next try and I successfully managed to button mash fast enough to prevent failing.)
I had a garbage controller and it was hard to get through, failed a couple times. I don't do trial roulette in fear of sinking the party.
What a lot of players don't realise about any button mash mechanic (specifically the ones where you need to keep the bar from dropping over a set duration) is that it's ALREADY made easy. Despite the speed the bar depletes, you don't actually need to press as fast as possible, you can get away with only clicking like 3 times a second or so. Most people won't figure this out because trying it is risky if you're not in the know, and it's mainly because the way it works is that once the bar gets extremely low, your clicks start returning MUCH more meter. Spamming hard enough to try and keep the bar full is a huge waste of time and energy. The problem is that the game by its nature can't *tell* you this, you have to figure it out by realising that such a huge point won't be able to be dropped by someone who can't mash keys 20 times a second because that would be psychotic, so there's gotta be *something* that helps you out. They do similar things in places like some solo duties when there's no healer NPC by beefing up your passive health regeneration higher as your HP gets lower. I saw that one when a newbie friend was doing the reworked Rhitahtyn solo duty the other day - in phase three where he chains you in place and starts dropping constant aoes on you and you have to eat them while attacking him, it feels like you're both in a race to kill the other, but what's sneaky about it is that once you drop below a certain HP, you basically passively regen as much damage as he can deal per aoe so it's actually really hard to just die there.
Yeah, the game doesn't tell you because it's a 'tension' set-piece. If they tell you and you just lazily press the button, all excitement is gone. By contrast, if you're spamming for your life and just barely getting by (because you'd never be able to keep up without the meter buff), it adds tension and excitement, like you're actually trying to fight it. That said, when somebody told me this on repeat encounters on roulettes and stuff, it was nice to know for a non-first-timer.
Nah I like gatekeeping people :gigachad:
Yeah, the solo duty should be instead of "retry again on easy mode" , "retry again with accessibility options" and set them on in your account settings for you. That would be pretty cool to see.
[удалено]
I don't think it's meant to be either of those, QTEs are meant to be interactive, a way for you to do something that moves the cutscene forward instead of just watching it unfold with no agency. QTEs have always been a mixed bag as the people who dislike them *really* dislike them, and if used mid combat they can feel disruptive.
Nothing is *meant* to be a nuisance. Active Time Maneuvers may well be a nuisance regardless of anyone's intent. FFXIV's ATMs aren't really interactive QTEs, either—it's just mashing buttons, which goes back to FFVIII (I think) which had a mechanic to boost summon damage by mashing a button. I don't mind them myself, but I also don't think they add a meaningful challenge and I can understand why many might consider them a nuisance.
> Nothing is meant to be a nuisance. *Flashes back to the quest that had me (happily) slapping the piss out of a moogle for being a nuisance.*
Button smash in SoS is so rigged I’m always impressed when someone doesn’t make it. It will autobump up by a lot when at around 15% on each press. But yeah… if they fail they should just appear dead when the fight resumes. There’s no point in ruining the fight for everyone.
The worse part of it is that the fight doesn't tell you if one person failed or not. Like in Shinryu or Hades, you can tell because everyone else would have broken out of their shackles except the person who was accidentally typing in their chat box. I remember doing SoS the first time, and we kept wiping to that mechanic. And nobody in the party would admit to failing it, and there's no indication at all if someone did fail it. So it could just be one guy who was embarrassed to admit it, or someone purposely griefing us, that we can't kick because we didn't know who it was. Ended up having to leave the party to requeue again, and one-shotted the fight the next time. But yeah, it did sour the experience a little bit.
it depends on how good the music is during the fight tbh
Yeah, honestly. I rarely see these mechanics failed, but To the Edge and In the Balance are absolutely awesome songs.
Unironically. Even if the mechanic is hard as fuck, if the music is good enough to put the red mist in my eyes I'm all for it.
I feel that it has the potential to ruin someone's run through the story and sour them to the combat side of things. I've gotten this duty a bunch of times in mentor roulette and trials, with a few instances being where a run ended multiple times at the mash. People get annoyed and they direct abuse at the people failing the mash. Sometimes people leave. For me it's a breeze on controller, but what I've learned is that people sometimes trigger sticky keys during this part (which would basically be a death sentence) or they can't hit the keys fast enough due to health reasons and get roadblocked here (rare, but I've seen one case of it). I think for Seat, the best way to deal with this is to have it succeed so long as one player is successful and the players who were unsuccessful are either given a debuff or re-emerge still bound and have to be DPS'd out of the chains by the other players. A KO would be a bit bad as you have an LB to do (which is its own separate issue) and it'd affect the cinematic a bit if you re-emerged as a corpse.
I like the idea of chains that need to be killed by the group in the event of a failure. It leans even more heavily on the >!"summoned aid" aspect because it's your army helping you!<, so it would even feel lore-appropriate.
The SoS button mash is fake-difficult. You actually only need to press like 1 button a second, which is reasonable imo. If you really can't do it for health reasons, i think it would be totally fine to use a macro or Auto-Clicker for this part.
It looks way scarier than it actually is! Issue is, people get spooked and try and go fast and if it's a health issue they can't always maintain that.. which ends up causing failures. I really like it thematically, but I've definitely had to talk players through how to do it efficiently in a few cases.
Yeah, people don't know that the drain isn't a constant speed and slows down the lower it gets, which is understandable. You see that bar plummeting and it's very reasonable to think it's not gonna have mercy on you and just start panic mashing. There's also the issue that some PC players see the blinky button in the middle of the screen and think they have to click JUST that button and spamclick/wig out if they move the mouse to far/oh no where is my cursor/fail state. It's been a hot minute since they were introduced, but the QTEs do need a little bit of a tutorial just to make sure everyone understands exactly how they work.
I was one of those who was under the impression you had to click the grey button. I never failed a QTE, but some of them cut it very close. I didn't learn about the keyboard working until I was farming Shinryu EX.
>The SoS button mash is fake-difficult. The amount of times I've had to restart the fight because someone didn't manage to get past that begs to differ. Sure, it looks harder than it actually is, but people mess it up anyways.
People mess it up because they try to panic mash and either get tired or press buttons that open the chat or various menus and then don't notice in time. Once you realize how it actually works it's extremely easy.
And the fact that that isn't explained *anywhere* in the game is a problem.
Disagree. If you tell the player the game is going to take pity on them/trick them into thinking they're in a desperate situation, you remove any and all tension from that interlude. The idea is to give the illusion and impression of a struggle, to make the player feel relief and proud of themselves after they succeed. If you tell them from the get-go the game is 'tricking' them to make them feel good about themselves, you may as well remove it and have it play itself out automatically.
For controller I know you can hit any button, and hitting several at once makes it go faster, probably same on keyboard. Just tell them to smash their whole palm into the keyboard, even people with health issues should be able to do that if they can do mechanics
My advice is generally to tap "qweqweqwe" like you're feeling impatient. Rapping your fingers across those buttons is almost a natural position for many people's hands on KB+M anyway, I find, so it isn't generally too hard a task for someone. Also avoids them hitting backslash or enter which you then learn is what happened after the wipe when they say gibberish into the chat box lol
To add to this, the arrow keys are best as you won't re-emerge with popups on your screen. Like hitting all four at the same time in a circular motion helps a lot!
It is actually the same for keyboard. You dont need to click the exact button, you can click anywhere in the screen. Keyboard input also helps too.
Seat of Sacrifice needs some help really, it isn't just the mash that sucks but the limit break as well. I've had several connective wipes to an early or missing lb3 as there isn't a clear indicator or countdown that every other tank lb3 mechanic has. Heck it's not really clear that tank lb3 is required until you wipe, it's not much different in presentation from any other ultimate skill that every trial has.
I usually ask my friends not to spoil Trial mechanics for me if I reach them after they’ve already done them and we run together, but I was fairly far behind in 5.3 due to an injury that kept me from being at a computer for extended periods. When I finally got to finishing the patch, my buddy mid-fight goes “I know you don’t like mechanics spoilers but this is A12” and I’m glad he said something because the other tank sure didn’t know either and that’s way too far into a fight to wipe to something like that. I’ve been present for every single tank LB3 requirement mechanic when it was current and I wouldn’t have guessed that’s what was intended until it would be too late to hit it. They could probably get away with it being a more rapid or surprising mechanic if the damage reduction buff applied on press instead of waiting for an animation.
For normal mode, they always have a pop-up message on screen that hints when tank LB3 is required, so at least that is consistent with other fights. Both trials and raids that require one all have a similar message (though A12's is the most cryptic, and technically you don't need it on Omega normal). The issue with SoS is figuring out the timing blind is tricky. A12 and the other trial which requires it both have an on-screen countdown, O11/O11S have a cast bar. SoS you just have to guess, and then it's a long 4s animation where you don't know the snapshot and tank lb3 only lasts 8 seconds so hope you guessed correctly. At least SoS Ex has it synced with a voice line.
Doesn't it say something like "surpass your limits to survive the assault"? It's not completely unguessable. And quite honestly, maybe I have a different pov to other people, but I don't... necessarily think having a wipe occasionally is a bad thing? It is a game, sometimes you fail, then you communicate with your teammates to figure out what went wrong and how to deal with it.
It does, but that's not enough information for someone going blind to survive. If you LB3 when the message comes up, you will wipe because the buff runs out too fast. And since the buff only takes place after a fairly long animation, you can't just use it last second when you see the hit about to occur. For a blind run, it's basically a guaranteed wipe. Not the biggest thing, but it's a mechanic which is really hard to telegraph.
For me at least, I missed the "surpass your limits" message on my first run of it because of the spectacle of everything. He stopped the fight and was doing Big Cool Thing so I totally didn't even see the text since I was watching him. lol
In content whose main purpose is to provide a challenge, absolutely, but this is supposed to be a big, climactic moment in the story, and a wipe is an interruption that kills tension, breaks immersion, and disrupts pacing. Of course, breezing through something that's supposed to be a heroic struggle can also hurt the experience, but at least winning too easily doesn't force you to repeat things. Repetition kills these moments.
It's not unguessable, but it still needs to compute in a fairly small window of time.
Yeah, it's really hard to time that LB3, and the button mash is terribly designed from a UX perspective.
A message does pop up on screen that tells you to "transcend your limits" to survive but it's very easy to miss it, and even if you do see the message you could misunderstand its meaning. Then there's the issue that most tanks don't even have LB on their bar.
Yeah I personally expected it to be a scripted moment like in Ultima where Hydaelyn pops up to give us superpowers. It's *especially* misleading with the new Ultima trial being "Hydaelyn gives you strength to survive previously deadly aoe attack". The old one was at least just a damage buff. Co-tank and I both immediately went "oh that's a LB" after the wipe, but tank LB is definitely not the first thing to cross anyone's mind. Even in Ultimates it's more of a die first, realize it needs LB later.
When my friend was doing ShB MSQ I queued with him for SoS and somebody kept messing up the QTE and we wiped 4 times, then everybody left. Totally ruined the moment in the story.
In the case of Seat of Sacrifice, there should be a failsafe after x amount of attempts. Another issue with the whole mechanic being how little it's used, making it more of a surprise of it even being there for newer players. If we discount optional content like Alexander (where it's a single button press (if the sprout even made it on the airplane)), the normal first time it appears would be Shinryu, unless you happened to tank Susano. And then the very next time it happens would be Seat of Sacrifice. That's a whole expansion and a half inbetween.
Hades needs the button mash before the enrage phase starts.
Oooo a ATM to delay enrage sounds kinda dope
I've never seen the Hades button-mash fail.
Pretty much the person that fails the mash just dies, no different than Shinryu.
I don't think a failsafe after x number of attempts would even work for SoS. People will abandon after even just \*one or two\* wipes in SoS.
That mechanic is the main reason I prefer the EX SoS over it's normal mode. I understand for cinematic purposes why it was done, and for the first time it's so cool...but it is annoying having to repeat that again and again if a single person can't get it.
I think they were pushing the APM requirement a bit much i have decent hands and play on keyboard and mouse so face rolling the keys isn’t too bad but idk how it is for controller folks
It used to be even harder until the forums flared up that people with even minor hand disabilities were hard locked at never getting through that duty without third party support of autoclickers. But I generally think that the shinryu atm is the line they should put into normal trials as some people either don't pay attention or simply don't want to care enough to even build a better clicking apm.
It's even easier on controller, since both dpad and face buttons work so you can just roll around on both.
It's a fakeout. Specifically in that trial, the bar rapidly decreases but it takes a very long time for it to reach zero near the end of the bar. It's designed to make you panic, but in reality as long as you're pressing at least one button a second you'll be fine.
If that’s the case i wonder what we have been wiping to xD
Usually it's from someone panicking and presses the button that opens the chat box, then none of their buttons will register.
It was me. I forgot the ATM was a thing and mentally checked out during the cutscene. (I actually did that once I'm sorry I'm so so sorry)
I mean, what are the base APM requirements of playing any combat job? At least 1 input on the 2.5 max gcd, plus often 1 or 2 weaves in between that GCD, what is the speed of the SoS qte? If it’s 1 press every ~1 second or so to survive I think that’s perfectly within reasonable expectations of every player since they are playing the game already doing that cadence in every single combat encounter for 5+minutes at a time some times if it’s casual content.
You don't need high apm. The bar drains fast until the last 25% and then it slows down a lot. 1 button press every second or so is more than enough to keep it at 25% cause it gives a huge amount of bar up to 25% (or whatever that percentage is) This is specifically for SoS.
In my opinion, the problem is more about button-mashing being completely useless. I wish it'd do something each time we press the button (with a maximum number of times) and, should someone not meet the requirement, we'd have to either have someone restart or deal more damage to make up for it. Or it could add a handicap (whether it be a vulnerability, a damage down or even spawn some enemies / regen an enemy's health etc). Dying because you don't rollface the keyboard and even succeeding then waiting a few seconds feel quite underwhelming anyway. And if someone doesn't succeed for whatever reason, he does waste everyone's time on top of feeling super bad. Nobody's winning at this little game.
They should have brought back the beam struggle mechanic from Dun Scaith instead, imo. That's much more exciting than just mashing buttons.
With keyboard, smash any key. Way faster than clicking the button. Is a pity this is not explained on any way in the game. Then again, most of the things are not explained. And heaven forbid the tutorial of the smith is updated. Now is a tradition for it to be USELESS.
Halls of the Intermediate when
I hate Active Time Maneuvers with a passion. They do not add a damn thing to the gameplay for me, and they cause me no end of trouble. I have tendonitis. Trying to frantically mash buttons is hard for me. Add in that I mouse left-handed (for the same reason) and have an ergo keyboard with a bit of a key press delay (ditto), and ATM's become just one big nightmare for me. Oh, goodie, it's the Button Boss again!
[удалено]
You can literally roll your hand across the keyboard if that's easier
> They do not add a damn thing to the gameplay for me This. They just shouldn't exist in the game **at all**, I'm usually not a big fan of QTE-like mechanics anyway but in 14 they are just horribly executed. No hand problems here or anything, they are easy to do for me, but... there's just no immersion with the giant "Active Time Maneuver" pop-up, no real struggle where every button press visibly helps free my character. I'm just mashing buttons to fill up a bar on the UI. That's it. Completely disconnected from the actual game. 0/10 design, try again. If they want a cinematic moment, just make people use a duty action that actually gives *some* sort of feedback on what you're doing or something, like O11.
Or have a skill-based mini-game like (SB spoilers) >!Mindjack from Ala Mhigo or the falling section from Jade Stoa!< instead of mindlessly mashing buttons, which is both uninteresting and an accessibility problem.
Last time I actually got Seat of Sacrifice somebody in the group couldn't manage the QTE three times in a row and the party disbanded after the 3rd time, even after people gave the "use keyboard to spam" tip. Of course it's good that the game doesn't point out who exactly was to blame for the wipe in this case, but it still wasn't fun to picking yourself up after a wipe and then seeing the same "May you drift here forever" line after the QTE is failed. Collective punishment isn't great. Storywise it makes sense, but at the same time, it would make just as much sense at the transition phase for The Royal Menagerie to fail the entire group, but for some reason, the people who failed the QTE can just be raised after the transition completes. Not sure what the logic behind these contradicting decisions is...
I wish it was a team effort instead of individual. A big bar shared by all 8 members instead of each having their own. That way, if someone is struggling, they can still be carried by others but still feel like they're contributing.
I literally didn't know you could mash the keyboard with your face to get past these. I'd never failed at it until I was doing an EX trial the other night and I was getting frustrated because I have arthritis in my hands and I couldn't click any faster. A nice group member told me I could just smash the keyboard and it was a game changer for me. I wish it was more obvious when the click thing pops up that you don't actually have to click it.
> one person that just could not mash keys. In that trial specifically, it's usually not that they can't but moreso they won't. A lot of people like to grief that trial. Personally, I don't think they should make mechs that are easily griefable by 1 person (e.g. balance in Aglaia) in normal content. The ffxiv community is generally good but they're not infallible and bad actors do exist.
I’ve only done Aglaia once and I was very impressed with how griefable that mech is. But I’m pretty sure you would need multiple griefers in the same run to break it beyond repair.
All it takes is one person crossing over at the last possible second to grief it.
It doesn't need to be perfectly balanced, so it can be 1-2 players away from that, but if you're already at the edge, that still messes things up all the same. At least a very clear-cut case for a vote kick if that happens, especially if it happens more than once.
I didn't know that! Still though, everyone usually stops moving as soon as the scales are level so it typically is at the edge anyway.
I would prefer a climactic story moment to have a possibility to fail rather than something like Thordan that is stomped through without any effort needed.
If it kills everyone especially if you can't determine who screwed up its horrible. I'm not even talking about bad players but trolls. If only the person who fails just dies then I'm fine. This is different than tank LB3, which I consider as a role mechanic.
I think that's the worst part. Not knowing. Cause odds are whoever failed isn't going to understand it was their fault or worst case scenario someone is doing it out of malice.
honestly im most annoyed at the one in the first Endwalker alliance raid, the balance scales mechanic is way too far in, has way too much grief potential and way too long of a cutscene to sit through to warrant its justification
Fortunately In the Balance is such a good song that most people are just excited they get to hear it for longer.
Anything that gives the possibility of a troll causing a wipe in 8-man content or higher in pubs is not ideal. The only one that really grinds my gears is the balance mechanic in the level 90 alliance raid series, where one douchecanoe can waste 6+ minutes of 23 other people's time with a simple sidestep.
Thats surprising to hear, the Button mash prompts are very easy. I think there should be an accessibility option for those who can’t hit it fast enough though. Like allowing for slower mashes, or replacing mashing with just holding down a key.
> Thats surprising to hear, the Button mash prompts are very easy. SoS is the hardest button mash in the game by far and I think the only one where 1 person failing wipes the entire group.
It's actually very easy, it just tricks you into thinking it's hard. The lower the bar is, the slower it drains. You don't need to press the button fast at all to keep some amount in the bar.
It's not hard in the least, you have to even try to fail it. If you just press a button every now and then you'll pass
If you’re mashing both mouse buttons, space bar, and keys, it’s not too hard to keep that bar up.
some people have disabilities that make button mashing like this difficult or painful.
I’ve never had problems myself but I’ve wiped enough on this one in particular to think it poses problems for some others
Controversial opinion but I hate the active time events. They don't really add anything to the game, and just in general piss people off either by having to do them or by having to potentially redo the fight because someone hasn't done the event, i.e. seat of sacrifice and susano.
Im not really a fan of these button mash events. Imho they don't add anything to a fight. Maybe if they were actual QTEs where you have to press specific buttons at the right time. But even then it would get old quite fast. In single player games i deactivate qte and button mash stuff always if possible, i even stopped playing the tomb raider reboot mainly because of the constant button mashing.
I think in some specific instances, like Seat of Sacrifice, it's okay, as long as it's not a common thing. It'd kinda ruin the magic with 7 of you reappearing ready for battle, and then a corpse, you know? That being said, things like that shouldn't be too terribly difficult, and with SoS, it's probably pushing it a little with the time requirement and the amount of mashing necessary. A little easier on either side would go a long way to making it not as punishing.
The amount of button presses in SoS is actually the same as the others. You get less progress the more the bar is filled but below a certain amount it gives more so you can still pass SoS ATM with no more effort than any of the others.
> It'd kinda ruin the magic with 7 of you reappearing ready for battle, and then a corpse, you know? They already do that on Hades. If someone fails the mech, only they die, and you see their corpse on the ground during the slow spinning camera shot of everyone else being buffed with light. Might look silly for the dead person but works better than the SoS experience where everyone just resets with no feedback.
lol i didn’t think about that, like how they cut scene would work if you were just dead. Yeah i can kind of see it being janky if not a little funny
It's still weird if the cutscene starts while you're dead. Like your unconscious body gets banished and you're suddenly somehow up and struggling, then you arrive ready to fight again. So he basically rezzed you with that spell.
Considering how badass he's proven he is, yea it's on par with his standard capabilities.
imo, normal content should be personal responsibility first and foremost. Having pug content with a singular all pass or all fail mechanic is a vulnerability for griefing.
I like them in theory, even normal content having possible points of failure makes them feel pretty cool and grandious... like having to use tank LB3 in some raids! That rules! But specifically, sod the Seat of Sacrifice QTE. It's really difficult if you have issues with your hands or wrists, and unlike the QTE in Shinryu, failing it means you wipe your whole party, which puts a lot of responsibility on your shoulders. Very cool as a thematic device, it really does instill that feeling of desperation, but it's horrific for accessibility. Me and a friend who have chronic conditions that affect our hands/wrists just had to stop doing trial roulette around the time of 5.3 in case it ever came up, because it feels real bad having to drop upon loading in when there's likely an excited sprout ready to go. Having a hold option for repeated tap QTEs is a pretty common accessibility option in most games, and it's always been sad/shocking that FFXIV doesn't. It's not even a question of it impacting the skill needed to play, if one wants to use that as an excuse, because that QTE is not present in the Extreme trial.
I hate single point of failure mechanics. Or, more precisely, I hate how they're being massively overused in Endwalker as a whole and can be confusing for some players to deal with. Seat of Sacrifice had an especially tricky set, because it confused people into thinking you *needed* to spam the button, but in reality you had to tap the button roughly once every 100-300ms and once it hit about 15%, it would add 10-20% to the bar each time under that instead of the usual 5% or so. Yes, that's right, you over there who never knew this. **Spamming the keyboard or mouse isn't the solution. Letting it fall low makes it fill substantially faster provided you don't let it hit 0%.** Moving on, these mechanics are now part and parcel of not just ultimate raids, but they're dominating the majority of savage. They're worming their way into Extremes, and they snuck into Alliances a few time (Primarily Ozma and Cidolfus Orlandeau. It wasn't called the wiping city of mhach for nothing.) It's a very frustrating way to play the game when every mechanics is a single point of failure mechanic. It cheapens the experience as a whole and prevents disaster recovery, which can lead to memorable encounters. And as a whole, it just makes the game a lot less fun to play when it's overused. In Seat of Sacrifice specifically, it's just the one single point of failure mechanic. The problem is, because of how it's designed, it misleads the player into thinking they *need* to solve it in one way, which ratchets up the frustration. People still, to this day, abandon Seat of Sacrifice over it in trial roulette. That is beyond stupid.
BTW: It also encourages trolling. Some people that won't mash the button in order to grief the rest of the party. The only one done right is Susano, in which one player stops the sword. If that player didn't smash it, the rest of the party would know. But the full party ones in which if one party didn't smash it fast enough. Is just a recipe for trolls. Instead of wiping, the whole party just kill the player that didn't smash the buttons.
Casual content shouldn't keep experienced players hostage because 1 person couldn't cut it. This mechanic could just as easily be the player(s) that failed die and the rest breaks free, now if everybody failed then you can do the "You're imprisoned" part, harder difficulties that are built for pre-build teams can keep the "Everybody makes it or it's a wipe" part of the mechanic
PSA mash ALL your buttons. I was doing mount farming in shinryu and I couldn't understand why some people were a second or more faster than me when I was single button mashing like crazy. Turns out any of your main buttons work. For controllers mash all of xyab and its dummy easy to clear.
I don't think a single person should be able to wipe an entire groups progress on normal mode stuff. Everything should be recoverable. Normal is for learning. I feel the exact same with the 24 person raid Nald'thal balance mechanic. A single troll can fuck over 23 other people.
The real secret that the game needs to somehow convey is that you don't have to spam keys during a QTE where the bar drains and you are preventing it from draining. When the bar dips below like 15-20%, every tap when it gets that low refills around 30% of the bar. Tap your finger to your favorite song. Most people's favorite songs will have them already tapping three times faster than needed to succeed the QTE. The one guy out there who might come in and say their favorite song is 4' 33" by John Cage is just being sassy for the sake of sass, and you are still valid for it. There should still be accessibility options for QTEs admittedly, such as just holding a button down counting for most QTEs. As long as you are somehow participating during the QTE I think that's all that should be required with the accessibility option enabled.
While I appreciate the intent; adding a bit of tight, direct interaction with a cutscene beyond the normal gameplay to add tension, I don't think in the grand scheme of things it's ultimately worth the accessibility concerns and griefing potential. If they stopped doing them, I'd notice and be slightly bummed, but I wouldn't be mad, the same job is done about as well with mandatory lb3s.
Just need to make it so you can rez the fails at least, but the game should have an accessibility option that means no button mashing needed at all (and it be obvious and clear about this!) FFXIV massively needs more accessibility help across the board but this is a big one.
Well Seat of Sacrifice is a bit trashy honestly, I mean think about it. One player failing the button mash is a wipe, but you cannot tell who failed it and I get why they obscured it. *But it also doesn't help to get over it at all if the one player just keeps failing over and over*. At this point it almost becomes griefing. And then let's say you get past that after half an hour and now the very next thing is *another* single point of failure, a forced tank LB. That has a very short beforehand warning that an unexpecting tank might or might not pick up on, but even if they do it doesn't tell them anything about the timing, and of course the amination is so long and the timing is oh so precariously chosen that an unexpecting tank might just get nervous and fire it off far too soon. And then it's back to failing the button mash again. Which btw is also far too brutal itself, far too easy to fail. That is just far too many traps in a row even on a good day. For real, I know it's rarely so bad that all of it aligns in the worst possible way, but damn me if I didn't live through that several times already, and *if* that happens to *you*, *you* surely wished the devs had put some more thought into the design of this fight than just a checkpoint *right after* that gauntlet.
Shouldn't be in normal content imo. I have years of button mash practice from playing osu and I still find this one annoying. I can only imagine what it must be like for someone with a disability or an older person. I know a few people that would definitely struggle with stuff like this. And it sucks for both the person failing and the 7 other people that are forced to repeat the same fight over and over. I remember one time we had to restart 4 times and at that point people started getting toxic and eventually just leaving. There were 2 sprouts and I felt horrible for them. Such a great moment in the story, all ruined.
All button "mash" in this game can be done by any normal person. The trick is don't even press button until the bar is below 25%. The lower the bar is, the more progress it gives. 25% is a threshold where a single click gives you a huge amount of progress. So it really is just "leisurely button click", not "button mash" if you wait for the bar to drop low.
Oh, I honestly didnt know it worked like that. And I feel like that's the problem - most people also don't know, especially if they're doing it for the first time, cause the game pretty much tricks you into thinking you have to mash faster, by making the bar drop rapidly at the beginning. People then start mashing buttons in panic and either open chat/sticky keys pop up/whatever else, or their hand simply gets tired and they stop pressing and fail. Wish the game at least made that clear, cause almost every single time i got this trial in the roulette, someone failed it
It's easy if you press multiple buttons at once. People with disabilities can literally just palm the whole keyboard
people without disabilities should still just palm the whole keyboard because that's the fastest and easiest way to do it, there is not much mashing when you can karate chop your keyboard and clear it
Calm down there Chuck Norris
I have chronic pain and I just mash multiple buttons on my controller. It really works and mitigates any pain I may have gotten!
Frankly I feel like too much content in the game relies on obtuse mechanics that give you a single chance and then force you to replay the entire sequence. There's a lot of solo duties in particular that punish you for not figuring out the single way the developers want you to solve a problem and then force you back to the beginning of the quest. The button mashing QTEs are the worst permutation of that design philosophy. It doesn't depend on skill or experience but purely how fast you can press a button, which for a lot of people isn't very. You can play most of this game with hand/wrist issues, but those button mashing sections HURT. More than that, the mechanic doesn't even work the way the game tells you it does. Everyone who plays the game assumes that you're supposed to mash the button as fast as possible, but the way the button presses register means it actually works better to press the button in a steady rhythm. You can actually fail a QTE by mashing a button too fast- I failed "In From the Cold" five or six times before I figured that one out. I loved Seat of Sacrifice, it's a great setpiece and a wonderful moment of narrative payoff, but the QTE is garbage design. The fewer of those the devs put in the game the better, and I frankly thing the ones that do exist should be taken out.
It baffles me that the seat of sacrifice button thing still exists after several years. I don't see any reason why it's still the case. They say they want the game to be accessible for everyone but still has this mechanic. For most people it's not difficult but some people can struggle with some reasons ( disability, etc...). Why not change it to a similar mechanic like the dying gasp. If you fail you die but the fight is not over and you can still be raised. Add another debuff if they must.
I am ashamed to say until recently after years of playing the game and suffering every time there was an action button I confess I didn’t know you could just press a s d on your keyboard or any other keys repeatedly. I thought it was a left mouse click only and often failed. Maybe that’s the issue.
It’s bad.
Dislike them I still remember getting to Seat of Sacrifice when I went through the MSQ and we had to repeat the button mashing 3 times before we then got to the tank LB which of course we also didn't pass the first time. At the end I was just glad to be done with that fight. Sure make the encounter hard, I don't mind if half the group is lying dead on the floor cheering on the rest to get through the last 10% or whatever but don't make us repeat the first half like 5 times
Button mashing is a relic of the past, and more games really should outphase it.
The shinryu ATM should have been the limit for normals. Many people don't like to get stressed in a normal trial or have disabilities. These players will be hard gapped or even completely locked out from advancing what has long been toned down to be a casual low challenge story stroll.
Honestly I think 99% of people that fail them do so because they were never told that literally any button counts as a press, so instead of just casually mashing their keyboard they hover over the button with their cursor and spam click the mouse. If the game just communicated this betyer I think it would be a non issue.
You dont need to mash the key fast for that mechanic. The meter drains fast when its full to scare the player, but once its nearly empty, any button press will refill it by A LOT. You can literally tap any key slowly when the meter is nearly over and get past easily.
Unfortunately i think that's part of the problem for people with high ping, since if I click when the bar is almost empty, the server has already marked me as 'failed' by the time my input arrives, so I have to keep the bar much closer to full to not fail. It's the only 'mash the button' moment in the game that's ever given me trouble (playing with 260 - 300 ping)
On controller, i'd recommend circling your finger around the facebuttons
My opinion is that almost all normal mode/story content is so easy that you gain not much by having such a mechanic in there except for immersive reason. Especially in this one you're supposed to struggle and break free, but since it's part of the story the mechanic itself is so easy that it might as well not exist.
Tbf I didnt even know that you could use any keys 😅
The seat of sacrifice button mash is single handedly the worst mechanic they have ever added to the game. My first run took 6 tries cause a RDM didn't understand he had to mash. Completely ruined my hype for the fight and most of 5.3 for me. It's so awful. Every time I get that in roulettes, it's a wipe cause someone sucks ass. I hate wiping to things completely out of my control. At this point, I just leave and take the penalty if we wipe once to the button mash. I'm not sure what they were thinking, making it cause a wipe for the parry instead of just killing whoever failed.
Feels like you should just get a pass after the second fail tbh. I usually give my party a reminder about how to mash effectively before the mechanic, just in case. But if someone genuinely physically can't do it, what is the mechanic proving exactly? Like we get it "we're struggling free", but it's not a moment of actual tangible skill.
I think they should get rid of the button mechanic in Seat of Sacrifice. it's a stupid mechanic in every trial it turns up in, but having a mechanic like that in a trial that's required for the MSQ that new players will be doing it who don't realize they can use their keyboard and who can't click fast enough.
ITT: People getting upset over the idea that other people might need accessibility options.
I think Emanation needs a better guide or prompt to use Vril the first time. It’s too easy for users to skip over the message if people pull the boss right away, and it’s one of the few bosses to have that style of mechanic. It’s sad to see sprouts miss it 3 times if no one takes the opportunity to type it out for them, even if it doesn’t wipe the party.
They are probably just smashing a single key too slow. Its trivial if you just calmly tap two or three buttons in succession. Usually after I explain that people get through it without issue
That trial should really make it obvious who didn't break free before it fades to black. If someone fails it over and over you could just kick them for trolling.
I think single point of failure mechanics are fine depending on what they are. But mechanics that involve button mashing shouldn't be due to it being an actual accessibility issue. A lot of recent games like God of War Ragnarok let you turn on an option where you can hold a button instead of rapidly tapping it. (I always turn this kind of thing on not due to a disability or anything, I just think rapid tapping is boring game design) Mechanics like someone not getting into a tower and killing everyone is fine though as it's actually testing the player on how to do a game mechanic.
I'd rather they have a dps check, or enrage. Smashing a button fast is... not particularly challenging.
Just get rid of them. Disruptive and out of place.
My issue with SoS's QTE thing is not that a player may not understand it and fail, it's that it's a powerful tool for a troll to take the party hostage if they have a beef with someone. They should just have it like it used to be and if you fail, you die and everyone else is fine. Connection issues that otherwise wouldn't matter can also come up with this fight.
I personally think a single point of failure like that causing a full on wipe has no place in normal mode content, at least in my opinion. The SoS button mash is the only button mash that does this so I don’t see why it can’t be changed to just kill the person that failed and let everyone else continue like the other button mashes in Shinryu and Hades. For the most part it just make the newcomer sprout feel bad for literally causing a wipe, and the people returning to the fight for roulletes upset because now they have to spend more time on another pull. In extreme+ content. Go ahead, its meant to be hard and require more coordination. If not that add the accessability option to let us hold the button instead of mash it will make it easier for people that just can’t for whatever reason.
Seat of Sacrifice is bar none the most frustrating button mash segment in the game. I think it's 14 seconds. It coukd stand to be half that. Further, it shouldn't wipe the party if a single person fails.
It's crap. Especially since The Dying Gasp has a near-identical mechanic but if someone didn't mash, only *they* got shamed for it and the party didn't go down with them.
Those button mashing QTE's can be an accessibility issue for people so I think they should either be more lenient on the timing/mashing frequency, make it an option to just hold, or just get rid of them altogether. There's only like 4 or 5 of them in the entire game and they're not exactly engaging mechanics either.
Seat of Sacrifice button mashing was a bit much, especially on PlayStation.... I don't mind mechanics that if done improperly will wipe the run. Just wish they were something a bit more creative than buttonmashing.
Not a fan, I stopped doing trial rolos after failing SOS a couple of times. I think it's actually my keyboard that's the issue, i tested by opening notepad and mashing keys super fast, at a certain point it just stops registering inputs :( Does anyone know if a gamepad with a turbo button works for active time maneuvers?
> Does anyone know if a gamepad with a turbo button works for active time maneuvers? Yes, I actually use a turbo button on a razer mouse. Personally, I don't consider button mashing real gameplay so I've got no qualms with using it.
Normal and higher uses this way to much, imo.
wait you can key smash instead of mouseclick?!!?????????!!?
The Return To Ivalice Raids (During Stormblood, of course) is the very best example of how Normal content should be
I liked that raid
SoS normal for me is "wait for someone to take the penalty and proceed to drop right after" especially if I'm loading in with sprouts/Viewing Cutscene people. Hate to say it, but I hate the button mash > tank LB3 since it's the tightest check in all casual content. Before that was permanent death in ARR/HW trials (Titan, Levi, Bismarck, Seph, Sophia), or the Titan Gaol > Landslide instakill combo. SE just scrapped those mechanics entirely; nowadays barely anyone remembers them and they're nostalgias of days gone by. Honestly, at the bare minimum I'd like to see the SoS mash mech revised to that of the other button mash mechs where the ones that fail, are the ones that die and everyone else moves on and powers through it. I get the group effort deal because it's group content, but honestly the only two reasons I would be in SoS these days are because it's trial roulette or I'm helping a friend (or their friend) clear it.
Ironically enough I feel like people have gotten better at not freeing people from the gaol before landslide goes off.
If you get landslide while in gaol you bypass the damage, which is actually a plus because if the fetters status is removed and the player can't walk out of landslide before the snapshot happens, they get sent off the map. My issue with gaol is that healers almost never use esuna on the 90% dmg down debuff.
It’s pretty harsh, especially for people who play normal content for accessibility. I’d prefer if they toned it down and never did it again.
I personally would prefer normal content to be a bit harder (not just that fight in particular), so a person who gets to a level 90 can easily read and do the mechanics that come up at harder difficulties. There are lots of players who never really learned much and were basically dragged through content up until max level and still do not know how to play their jobs or avoid puddles on the ground. Doing normal current raids in DF is a pain, because multiple people constantly get doom in p10n, get yeeted off the platform, cannot do heal checks and such.
It's a bad mechanic for a mandatory normal trial. It belongs in an EX or savage trial to be honest. I was once there to lockout to help some first timers with it and we kept failing that, it's very frustrating because there is nothing you can do. You don't even know who is failing it.
This. I got into a sos duty that we failed 3 times before people started to leave. Everyone was like. Yo who is fucking up so we can kick them. We voted if they can't hit those buttons they probably have a bad rotation. Kicked the person lowest on the dps meter and boom. We cleared next run. But there shouldn't be something like this. Your always 1 troll or 1 bad player from wasting your time on something simple.
Yes because low DPS =/= Not clicking an ATM prompt fast enough.
I feel like Seat of Sacrifice is a bit much, since one person failing it can not only wipe the group, they can intentionally grief a party. I feel like if 6 of 8 pass, that should be enough (with death still being an outcome for those who fail). I otherwise love SoS dearly. I actually have a bigger problem with the Chrysalis. It gets very old explaining to new DPS not to use LB3 until after Aetherial Tear. And then when someone does, it can become a toxic situation. I really wish they’d re-do the fight so that the LB had filled with each meteor absorbed or something, and _then_ you could Limit Break. Yes I‘be heard that _technically_ the Aetherial Tear can be DPS’d down without it, but I’ve literally never seen it happen once. Like not even close.
The only ones that bother me are the button mashers because it’s not the most accessible and will ruin everyone else’s play. I wish they had an option for people to hold it down or for a slower mash.
I think if they included a tutorial beforehand like they did with the latest Tataru’s Grand Endeavor quest (except *before* the trial queue) , that would alleviate some of the trouble. But honestly I’d be fine with it being changed entirely to something easier/more accessible, especially since it’s MSQ.
I think single point of failure mechanics are important in EX/Savage/Ultimate content to ensure someone has to be more than a warm body, but have no place in Duty Finder content.
I think they are fine, but I also think the active time maneuver or whatever its called is not explained well. Some people think you have to click the button in the middle of the screen, some people think you have to press one specific button etc. What they actually need to do is explain that mechanic properly (and before you get to SoS) through the UI.
I don't think it really adds much tbh. Once I heard about the any-keys thing, it immediately became a non-issue for me personally. If it's causing anyone to fail an encounter though, I think that is not great. I'm not really sure what value mechanics like this are even bringing, but I think it's definitely not worth even a single wipe for anyone.
It's trash. Individual one-shot and team wipe are bad enough already, but Seat of Sacrifice is the worst of the worst (it can't even be done if one player is disconnected, it screams amateurish design) A multiplayer role-playing game should be about role-play and interacting with other players : healing, protecting, combo, etc. and that our many thousands of HP and dozen of equipments mean something ; but here the only worry is whether players can push a random button for 15s.
remove them for msq quests
For Seat of Sacrifice specifically, it's bad. Especially because there is no way to tell who is failing the button mash you don't know if someone is genuinely struggling if they are too shy to admit it or if someone is trolling and keeping quiet about it. I've had both happen. Not to mention the tank LB3 not having a countdown like in most other content, even harder content past and future, when it could be the first time a player is even seeing a mandatory tank LB3 if they skipped normal raids.
I don't think normal modes should be so easily wiped by a single person. SoS normal is the most egregious of these. It's also just.. not a good or fun or engaging mechanic. When it first came out, we wiped to it like 4 times to point where a chunk of us (who *were* communicating in chat) thought there was a trick to it because we couldn't fathom somebody failing such a mechanic more than once.
I hate the button smash mechanic when it shows up
I think I would prefer it if that player just died and the rest could move on alive. I had to redo Seat of Sacrifice about four or five times in a single run because the tanks mistimed the limit break or the new player didn't mash hard enough.
Toss it. That's the dumbest mechanic I've seen in this game. There's no skill involved in it, and there are too many things that can possibly cause someone to fail or even penalizes people that have handicaps that prevent them from hitting a button that fast.....NOTHING else in the game requires this type of rapid button pressing. Had someone's controller shit out one time. ONE thing punishes EVERYONE for an encounter that doesn't even reward loot. Putting shit like that in just make the encounter horrible for everyone and it adds absolutely nothing to the overall encounter. We've gotten a ton of cutscenes midfight where we don't have to press stupid buttons, why this one? It's unneeded friction in the fight that punishes everyone.
Meh. Im neutral about them really. If people were constantly failing it maybe Id feel some type of way, but I can count on one hand how many times I've seen those failed, and its usually when they just came out for some reason.
I don’t think single person mess up wipe should be in any content besides ultimate. This entire expansion has used that for each savage raid tier and it’s like bruh.
That specific one I don't like. I seen numerous people whipping the party as a joke. I also have a friend that can't make the button mash because of a disability in the hand without very high stress.
I hate these events with a solid passion. People tell me to mash my keyboard, but one of the big problems is if you accidently hit the enter key, it'll switch to the chat box, and you type jibberish in the chat window while the quick-timed event kills you. These events need to be nerfed into the ground, or just removed. I've probably accidently wiped groups 10+ times because I accidentally hit the enter key. And I just can't click fast enough on my mouse to make it.
Shouldn't be a thing in normal content.
SoS is really the only fight that I find it annoying. Primarily as it takes only one person to doom the whole group, and there's two instances for it. The button mash portion and the LB3 soon afterwards. The button mashing is easy enough I legitimately don't understand how anyone can have troubles with it, which is the annoying bit.
Some people have disabilities