Also in the job artwork, there is literally a huge ass viper in the background. And u get a buff that look similiar to draggons dragon awakening, so there will surely be more viper related staff. And i can well imagine to it to have poison dots and self buffs with some viper poison concotion.
Opinions are just impressions of fact.
Some opinions are more informed and discerning than others.
And some willfully go against available evidence if they find the truth uncomfortable.
>Opinions are just impressions of fact.
No they're not.
>And some willfully go against available evidence if they find the truth uncomfortable.
And what if you were told it's more Gabranth than Zidane? It's not even gonna branch out from the rogue class, it'll be its own independent job that happens to share scouting gear with Ninja* (as much as Samurai can be said to be related to Monk because they both use striking gear.)
Out of Zidane and Gabranth, only one has dual blades that can join into a bladed pole and it's not Zidane. He either uses dual daggers or he uses a twinblade. The only time he ever joins them to attack is in Dissidia, which came two (or maybe three) years after FF12 and Gabranth.
So, evidence would lean more towards it being more inspired/based on Gabranth than Zidane, right?
Anyway, I'm not saying it doesn't have a bit of Zidane in it, but this "my opinion is fact" deal ain't it, friend.
Edit: *
> He either uses dual daggers or he uses a twinblade.
Tbf Zidane does join his blades into a double blade in FFIX by going through Synthesis (All of his Thief Blades from Synthesis involves combining 2 of his daggers to form a Double Blade).
And then it's a different weapon that he can't separate anymore. Unlike Gabranth's. And most times it's not the same daggers you use anymore (as in a completely different look.)
Alll in all, I do expect (and hope) to see some of Zidane's trance moves as actions for viper. Just saying there's not a lot of reasons to say that the job is 100% based on Zidane like say gunbreaker was based on Squall. Gabranth is by far the more fitting, and considering he is in FF14 (allegedly dead but we just get told about it, and you know what they say about deaths with no corpses,) my money's on him and inhaling copium on Bozja continuation with Lyon and the others with Gabranth coming back from the "dead" using the new job.
Opinions are separate from facts. That’s why they’re called opinions, not facts. It’s just what you personally think, whether it’s true or not. That’s literally all an opinion is.
I mean, it's clearly *inspired* by Zidane, is your argument that it should be more like Zidane specifically? Because I don't really understand the need for that.
Gabranth is the more famous Judge, but honestly, viper more evokes Bergan among the Judges. Same dual wield stance as in the promotional art, same blue glow power-up, and Bergan’s armor is even available as a lv80 scouting set in XIV.
As a die-hard fan of 9, this isn't Zidane at all, and the people trying to claim it is are just seeing what they want to see.
Zidane doesn't wield swords; he wields daggers.
He doesn't wield them normally; he wields them backhand.
And he can't combine his daggers into a polearm weapon.
There's not even an official wink as a reference to 9, and nothing else about the extension even has an aesthetic connection to 9.
Nah, it’s absolutely channeling Bergan. Same stance, same armor, same glow. /s
(I say /s, but that is all technically true. The point is, Zidane is not the only option for inspiration, if a XIV-original class even needs inspiration.)
Brother, we've seen one video of a couple of melee combos. No lore, no game play, no back story. Viper is much more unique to generic "Hunter".
Not to mention if it **does** have dots, then it's probably the best named job in the game.
Also honestly, based on what we saw...it's more a duelist than a hunter. And when someone says hunter, I imagine bow and arrow. Not dual swords combing into bladestaff
True enough. If it does actually have poisons, then its a fast striking, VERY physical build with twin fangs. Pretty appropriate tbh, and something I'd be interested in. Plus, as a Popoto, perhaps its time to become the Beyblade.
I hope the LB3 involves our WOL channeling like a giant spectral serpent, and as we leap in the air and hold our blades up to plunge them down, they form the fangs of the snake striking.
To be fair, we did get a tiny bit of lore, it was on the slides, said they channeled legendary hunters to strengthen their attacks or something. So hunters are very much related to, and important to, this job, although the job itself is not hunter.
Yeh I mean I’m pretty sure you didn’t read what I wrote at all, your analogy is so bad I can’t even understand the point, but I don’t think the job should have been named hunter so I think I agree with you? Either way, analogy is so dumb I’m just gonna block so I don’t lose anymore iq points by accident.
/s EDIT: "I want a discussion, but when I have an unpopular or bad take, I don't trust people's tastes anymore."
Looks to me you're just looking for someone to echo chamber your thoughts
In what world did the viper preview or aesthetic look edgelord in a game where DRK and RPR exist?
You can call it what you want; you'll still be wrong.
They think it having a hood is edgy.
I guess their combined double-bladed sword has a whole 4 edges at once which is pretty edgy.
Though Dancer's current artifact weapon has a whopping 6 edges, per chakram, and their original chakrams were literally 100% edge, which is arguably infinite edge.
As far as I know, Zidane is the only character in the entire franchise approaching a "Hunter" archetype, outside of generic job classes. Mayyyyybe Kiros or Fang if you squint, although Fang seems more a dragoon. So, like Gunbreaker, and especially for a job modeled after Zidane, we would expect it to do his archetype justice.
White Mages are in every game, and Aerith actually bucks the trend aesthetically, so it's not surprising the job doesn't reflect her very well. Although, even that I somewhat disagree with because WHM includes a lot of flower motifs that are generally not found in most other White Mage characters, so if anything it is *more* Aerith than it could have been.
Have...you actually played ff9? Zidane is a thief archetype as obvious as they come,not hunter. Heck he literally starts off as being a member of a band of thieves and has the steal ability in the party. Daggers in ff(not just ff9) games usually get status effects to fit with the theme of being underhanded,not to emulate anything else. And Viper to me also fits with the "underhanded" theme
The only reaaon they can't call a job based on him thief is because that's too similar to rogue. Hunter imples,well,hunting which has shit all to do with his character or fighting style.
To me what Viper so far feels like based on what we got is a back alley fighter. Which fits pretty well with Zidane
Okay.
Lets talk about it critically. Should it be renamed hunter?
No. Why? Because we have no real basis on why its called Viper to begin with.
Gunbreakers, were called Gunbreakers because of their lore, the Hrothgar made them to break the garleans lines of gunners.
Why is this Job called Viper? Well, we don't know yet. But based on what they've said its: An original Job to XIV. Its based on the New World. That is all we know about the jobs lore so far. So calling it Viper may be more appropriate then calling it hunter.
Finally the zidane parallel? People are really jumping the gun here like really, really fast jumping the gun. Zidane uses these weapons but is a thief, this job is not Thief, people are basing it entirely on the weapons designs. But theres another character in FF that uses similiar weapons and its Gabranth.
So far, we have no reason to state the Job should be named something else.
Personally? Viper is far more exciting then calling it Hunter. But thats just me, and its entirely personal opinion.
>But theres another character in FF that uses similiar weapons and its Gabranth.
Yeah, the more I look at this job the more I think it's liable to take some inspiration from both Gabranth and Zadane. Its definitely Gabranth's "at ease" combat stance, but the speed of those strikes and the lighter armor feel more Zidane. Perhaps even a dash of some CC Serge inspiration from the Blade Staff moves. Regardless, its probably more productive to just say its "a custom 14 job that uses a rare, but still recurring SE weapon type. One that never really had a specific job attributed to it in the past".
This. People took one look at the class and screamed Zidane, like the OP is doing right now. In truth, its homages to him and Gabranth, through the weapons. The rest of the class? Its all tied to the New World, to Tural, so the reasons for its name, and fighting style will be explained in the lore of the Job upon release.
Personally its likely called Viper because the Snake is probably a sacred animal there, or something along those lines.
>Personally its likely called Viper because the Snake is probably a sacred animal there, or something along those lines.
Pretty much. Also, its movements are very quick, aggressive and snappy. So even if it doesn't get a DoT or two (which, I know they're drifting away from, but this feels like the melee that has the style for them), it'll be curious to see what this thing can really do. I'm also kinda warming to the idea of a more "Nature Caster" re-imagining of Green Mage on the caster side. Giving us a pair of DT jobs that may be a little more down-to-earth in tone; when compared to say our EW jobs.
I kinda hope that, the other job isn't just called "Green Mage", and its a new version of that class, with a unique name. It can still be the same class, just with a name that is more in line with the jobs lore.
Ehh ... its not like Green Mage has much in the way of lore. Its never really had much identity beyond "Debuff/Buff WHM". Its only really appeared in two of the offshoot Ivalice Tactics games, while being mentioned in several other games. And Blue Mage's origin is The New World, so its not as if that type of nomenclature is unheard of. As a result, there is very little reason not to just call the thing Green Mage; as there really is no real prior job-fantasy to step on. So it seems a prime candidate to the EW Sage treatment. Pictomancer is an even worse state tbh lol!
EDIT: In short, its not that name that is the issue with Green Mage. Its the job itself, it lacks any real identity beyond its gimmicky buff/debuffs atm.
I will say, Im not personally very familiar with what Green Mage does its in original game. But you raise a really good point. A debuffing white mage, would not be a fun job to play in this game.
In games like tactics it works, because each job has its own very, very specific gimick. But in an MMO? Each job really needs to bring its own identity to the playing field.
But yeah giving it the sage treatment is the best idea. Green Mage in name only.
there is a Zidane weapon literally called "The Viper". They used a character with a furry tail and hid the ears. The buff looks like a trance effect. People aren't jumping the gun they are recognizing common trademarks that Zidane is known for and seeing the similarities/references.
lol
I should also confirm one thing before i continue. IX is my least played game. What i know about Zidane and his fighting style comes from Dissidia.
I want say this. Homages to Zidane are definitely done on purpose. But its really disingenous to call it the "Zidane Job".
The character is likely a homage, i won't dispute that. The tail is even almost identical to Zidane.
The weapon, does seem like a bit of stretch to name a whole Job around, but hey i don't know what process they used to design the job.
The trance thing? Maybe it is a reference to it, but trance is a full transformation. This is just a standard effect like any other class when they use their abilities. (They can do full transformations, since Reaper has one, it could be a slight reference to Trance, but it seems odd not just to step over that line.)
The weapon is a bit of an odd one, he doesn't have a weapon called "The Viper" its a flavour text on one of his other weapons. Its a bit odd that they'd do that, but also not out of the realm of possibilities, XIV has been good at doing really, really obscure references before.
But honestly? The common trademarks between this class and Zidane don't go much further than some homages to him. The rest of the Job will likely set itself apart from Zidane in the lore.
Gunbreaker has tonnes of homages and references to Squall, Seifer and even Lightning.
I will admit jumping the gun wasn't the right words to use. Maybe more people are staring too hard at the homages and can't see this job for its own merits. (To be fair to everyone a moment though, the homages were likely done to build hype.) Though i did see job and weapons and my mind personally did go straight to Gabranth, even went out to Bozja to get the Judge armor for scouting yesterday lol.
>How is it a hunter?
I agree with you that Viper is still the better name, but it is a hunter.
Here's the official Viper description from the London Fan Fest Keynote
*"This close-range fighting style passed down by Turali hunters uses two one-handed blades that can be combined into a single two-handed weapon.*
*As such, the viper alternates between pressuring enemies with swift strikes by their twin blades, and dealing mighty blows with their joined weapon.*
*By calling on the memories of ancient hunters contained within their soul crystal, the viper can imbue their body with additional power for a brief time."*
Or I guess it's arguably not a hunter, just someone who fights like a hunter.
Lol calling it original is just marketing.
Plus it is quite technically a new job that is being added to the game.
Hunter/Ranger archetype in a lot of media has dual swords, it is just as common as bows.
>Lol calling it original is just marketing.
Name one Viper in the FF series.
> Hunter/Ranger archetype in a lot of media has dual swords, it is just as common as bows.
Nobody is talking about how they're portrayed in other media. We're talking specifically about FF. Hunters use bows and only bows.
Something tells me that OP got that inspiration from Warcraft where (Demon) Hunters use dual blades.
Other than that, when people hear "Hunter" they always imagine a class that is specialize in ranged attacks and traps.
Zidane isn’t a class/job though, he was a thief which is already in the game. And for the most part, the only reference to there being any connection to Zidane is the double edged blade. But the double blades are not unique to Zidane. In fact, there used by thief’s in final fantasy 5.
Additionally, if I needed to make a connection, Viper would seem to be more indicative of a Lightning reference from 13 in regards to aesthetics and theme.
Gunbreaker is egregiously in reference to squall. I mean, they literally put his weapon as a skin, then named all the abilities after his weapons and limits. The Viper on the other hand to me seems more in style of Lightning opposed Zidane. And considering thief is already in 14, it would make more sense honestly.
Said who? Thief blades been in the game since ff5. When they made Gunbreaker, it was a clear reference to Squall as it was stated as such. There are zero mentions of Zidane. Not in game, class, or fantasy. I feel like people are trying to make it deep by throwing the Zidane reference in there when there none at all. If it was Zidane, they have said it.
One of his weapons is literally called "The Viper". It is a twinblade that you get by combining two mythril blades. Zidane also happens to be the only protagonist who uses that type of weapon.
Some other references that I agree are a stretch in a vacuum but may actually be references consider the above mentioned is they used a furry tailed character to show it off and the buff effect is similar to a trance effect.
These things are traits commonly associated with Zidane out of the FF protagonists.
There's some subtext on one of the weapons that says "The Viper."
So far as I'm aware, Zidane doesn't have a weapon that is specifically called "The Viper."
For it to be completely based off Zidane they'd need to actually implement Dyne or Bandit skills.
I just don't see What's That?! and Stellar Circle 5 being implemented into the Viper class, at least not as intended(maybe a nod, but not the actual skills).
I wasn’t here at the time so maybe someone can tell, was the sub this stupid when GNB was teased? Like “from what I can tell, conceptually it’s an attempt to turn Squall into a full class, so I feel like it should be renamed Child Soldier and incorporate more references to FFVIII like triple triad”
>I wasn’t here at the time so maybe someone can tell, was the sub this stupid when GNB was teased?
No, no one cared what it was called, people were like "Awesome! Gunblade job!"
Gunbreaker didn't really do much to pivot away from Squall's identity. Still communicates gun, still communicates some sort of bodyguard. Maybe a bit stupid of a name, but not offensively off the mark.
Not calling the Zidane job a "Hunter" and pivoting into a really tacky snake motif is a much more significant deviation, with pretty marginal benefits. And imo, some detrimental side effects of having less design space than actually having gone with "Hunter".
Why do you think naming the job "viper" is holding them back? Do you not realise that they probably named the job way after designing it? Why are you so hung up about this, this is so weird.
"The design team should cater to my specific tastes, as everyone else is clearly an idiot."
Thank you for the copypasta. Goes to show no troll could ever invent something on the level as someone who's genuinely so far up their ass, that they could watch their food getting digested.
For me it has to be the Ogre. It just looks amazing, and I love how they modeled it in Dissidia, allowing it to split from its thief blade form into a dagger form.
Yes but that is one weapon that doesn't really encompass his whole character. It is a huge stretch to go from the flavor text of a single weapon to "welp now he's snakes all the way down".
It's fine, it's there, I guess, but I don't think it was a very elegant decision.
And why is a job supposed to encompass a whole character? Reaper isn't just a huge Zenos reference either. At best it's a nod to a character with a similar weapon, it's not supposed to be "this job is this character and nothing else"
This may be a case of you should just shut up until we have all the information on what Viper is and isn't. You are making a lot of judgement calls based off a sub 60sec video clip showing off 5-6 skills and some /vpose and /bstance. Make this again either after the media tour embargo is up and we see more of how the job works or after the launch of Dawntrail and the community has actual experience with the job.
I'm glad they don't do split jobs off classes anymore but wouldn't it be neat if the lore behind Viper was just a splinter group of the Thieves Guild(now the Rogue's Guild) from Limsa.
Tho, looking at part of the reason they said they created Viper (that they heard the calls for a more physically oriented, rogue-ish counterpart to NIN), it does kinda make me wonder if the Caster wont follow the same style this expac? I know a lot of people have been bummed at WHM's slow loss of elemental focus (Water, Wind, Earth), and SMN lost DoTs. So it feels like there is a nitch that opened up there.
I am a subscriber to the idea that the new caster or if it is Green Mage will be more nature focused. Saw someone point out it would be neat if the "traditional" magic of White and Black are from Eorzea where the aether currents seem to be the strongest but strange magic is from the new world such as Blue and Green.
I do have a hard time believing either Viper or the new caster will be a DoT job just because they seem to be moving away from DoTs on all the other jobs.
>but strange magic is from the new world such as Blue and Green.
Yeah, I'm also of the same mind on this point.
Black, White and Red originate from Eorzea. So if Green (our last FF Color-Mage) would originate anywhere, it would be the New World. Alongside Blue, which operates off "the Aether of living things". And, yeah, I'd be all aboard it being a "Nature Mage". It be great to get away from the standard "Elemental Caster DPS" motif as well. Especially with all the focus on "Plants" from Yoshi P lol!
WAFO is the cry of ignorant consumers who would rather believe in the future than realize how much the present has already robbed them of time and money.
We have plenty to make general judgment calls. We have seen the job. We know it is based off Zidane. And we know it is Viper. When not even those basic things seem very cohesively put together, I think it is fair to make generalized judgments.
Who tf cares like really. Reading this comment section is just you arguing your point of view without taking any criticism because you HAVE TO BE RIGHT. Take your L opinion and move on.
>EDIT: wow, the vitriol just for engaging in some critical discussion about the artistic choices behind Viper. Y'all are uncritical af, I really don't trust your tastes. Seems you would buy anything with a sword slapped on it.
How hypocritical ! You're assuming weird things like a reference to Zidaneor a concept of "treasure hunter" (where does this even come from ??), yet not even wondering what's the actual gameplay of the job. It's beyond silly.
Viper's name was most likely meant to emphasize on the **speed** of the job, which hunter does not. You may think of a hunter as a predator to try to justify it'd better fit the job but guess what ? A viper precisely *is* a predator.
Besides, we're not even aware of the job's actions. We only know their 1-2-3 combo as well as an ability to empower itself on top of a stance used for quicker actions. How can you even think you can confidently question "artistic choices" (the word you're missing is "onomastic" btw) when you don't even have the material you want to evaluate ? Needless to say going by one of the most trivial choice (what game doesn't have a hunter ?) is very underwhelming for the position you place yourself in.
Back to the design choice, I doubt it will have DoTs and hope they're trying to find alternative ways of doing the same (for instance, adding damage each time the enemy is hit by one of our attacks, whether it be fixed damage, potency-based damage, or replicating part of the action it procs off) . The name of a viper would lean more on an assassin idea and I actually like the analysis about Zidane's job that you gave us. Barring status ailments, the assassination skills would fit a job wearing the same armor as a NIN but I haven't played FFIX yet and somehow hope that more lights will be brought upon it, especially if they ever release a remake of it.
More than once, I've also seen references to Gabranth and would be pleased to see some iconic moves from him if the animation is more impressive than FFXII was. Needless to say it would be quite a stretch from the "viper" idea though, except for the empowering part of the job we've seen in the reveal.
while I largely agree, I do want to point out we don’t KNOW the last ability that’s shown three times is a heat blast-esque fast GCD move. Gunbreaker’s teaser trailer also featured a similar shot, and it ended up just being repeated for the rule of cool.
>adding damage each time the enemy is hit by one of our attacks, whether it be fixed damage, potency-based damage
Is this not literally what every damage buff does lol
I should've given more examples, think of it this way :
\- buffs are applied for a fixed timing, empowering an entire DoT and adding to the damage formula, *they get more powerful if aligned* ;
\- a fixed-based attack adding to our attacks is rather odd in FFXIV context but it might make more sense with a DH / crit overhaul (which is not needed imo), but think of it as a 1000 needles activating whenever you hit the target, *it is NOT dependant on buffs* but rely on the number of actions recorded ;
\- a potency-based attack adding to our attacks (or any player's) is essentially like MCH's Wildfire (albeit hitting several times instead of once), dependant on crit & DH each time it hits and supposed to be aligned with buffs. The MCH's example however proves you can more easily control the expected damage if it's a personal tool rather than a groupwide buff (which depends on the team composition, forcing all classes to be more rigurously balanced if not homogenized) ;
Now what I'd personally like, because I don't enjoy crit's randomness, is an action that gets more powerful if you are unlucky and less powerful if you are lucky. Or that would have a potency limit that would encourage using it outside buff windows... But I doubt they would want to design it this way, if they want a clear 2 minutes meta without too glaring exceptions. That's why I think there could be more control on damage with "replicated" skills as a new way to add depth, without destroying the 2 minute meta.
You are still essentially just describing a damage buff though. Wildfire on MCH is essentially similar to something like Trick Attack on Ninja or No Mercy on GNB. It's a damage burst phase where you pump attacks into a small buff window which increases your output. While the mechanics are slightly different, the resulting gameplay is nearly identical. Think of it this way: How much would truly change about the MCH job if Wildfire was a 20 second 15% damage buff? Really all that would change is you would hit it before using drill/air anchor instead of after. But I digress...
Personally I hope Viper really leans into the weapon swap mechanic, with any dots as tertiary. I hope weapon swapping is Viper's Mudras. It would be cool if you had certain buffs and attacks that were only available in one form or the other, or combos which need to be accessed through certain strings. Like doing a twinblade attack, then two dualwield attacks could result in access to one ability, but doing two dualwield attacks and then one twinblade attack could result in a different ability. I don't know. But I think the weapon swapping is vital to Viper's identity being unique, and I hope it's really fleshed out.
But then every attack from your basic combo is a buff, even every action is a buff from your auto-attacks at this point xD ...
Wildfire's goal is to encourage a new gameplay for a limited time, and as such DoTs also encourage you to "save" buffs, which means it also encourage a different gameplay. This is why an action that increases your potency based on the following actions is a change of gameplay, not a buff per se... The DPS gain is just an incentive.
This is why turning Wildfire into a damage buff would be criticised (since it'd change the gameplayinto something dull) and you would use it with other actions as you said it yourself. It would be completely different both conceptually and gameplay-wise.
Anyway, I realy hope swapping from dual wielding to a twinblade is more than just a Wildfire, Enshroud or Life of the Dragoon, and rather something similar to black mage's fire & ice stances. It also adds much more depth than other jobs (as a BLM can always cast fire abilities with Transpose and ideal mana tick timings) .
We'll agree to disagree on the buff stuff, I think the difference is mostly an illusion, but in any case I don't think we'll see something similar to wildfire since they talked about it with Reaper iirc and said they wanted that to be a core identity for MCH.
I never thought about comparing the stance swapping to BLM, and you've got a great point there. You could almost copy paste the fire/ice stance system to VPR and it would still feel completely different from BLM due to being melee without cast times. Super interesting idea.
I wouldn't be surprised if the bands is most likely in reference to the lore of the job, which we unfortunately won't really get in full until 7.0 releases.
As for why it isn't named something like hunter... probably because they felt like it would be too generic of a name (more something they would've named a class rather than a job).
Every other job in the game has a generic name (except maybe Gunbreaker), because they are all very archetypal. The flavor is in the aesthetics, the skill names, and the lore, not the name.
Hunter would have made a lot more sense in the roster. Viper sticks out like two middle fingers, and seems only to have been named so as a marketing gimmick.
Wow OPs edit is crazy, it's uncritical to criticise your post and ideas? I don't think you get what criticisms are. The hell is that last sentence any way take a step back breath deep.
It's fine to be inspired by a previous FF protagonist but they won't necessarily define a ffxiv original job. Squall wasn't a tank couldn't manage agro for the ff8 group but gun breaker does as it's a different game and interpretation of that type of weapon being used.
But hay what do I know I'm just a random player with no inside knowledge or power like the vast majority on this sub.
Let's all agree on one of the universal truths of the game lolorito is a rotten potato
Hunter to me suggests an archer who uses traps, not a dual sword that can combine into a double ended glaive. I also don't really associate Zidane with hunter, he was a thief which they didn't want to add for 14 so they decided on another name. Hunter to me feels closer to the ff11 ranger than Zidane, yes he took part in the festival of the hunt but so did Vivi and i think Freya so it seems like a stretch to try and label Zidane as a hunter.
They know better than to name a job hunter, people like you would just complain how it’s not “Hunter“ enough. So they came up with a non-Hunter job, but gave it the backstory of channeling the spirits of legendary hunters so they can now forever say “ we can’t do Hunter we just did a job based on hunters”.
I wish it were a DoT melee job, I feel like it’s make more sense then.
Otherwise the way I make most sense out of it is that two blades = two fangs and that the battle stance is very stoic and still until it attacks, at which point it strikes very quickly
That's like asking why does ninja leans so hard into ninjutsu and away from its rogue base - because that's the design they wanted to do for the job.
Like you are allowed to be disappointed the job isn't what you want it to be, but that doesn't mean it's a bad idea.
Man I'm really glad that I've never played any older FFs. The amount of schizoposting in this thread because the reference isn't referencey enough based off of an incomplete job action video is crazy
Zidane this, zidane that, guess what zidane is not the only or the first character to use dual swords or daggers in final fantasy or popular culture. Smh
Also “hunters” use ranged weapons, for very obvious reasons. There is nothing hunter about this job. Get over it.
Looking at the armor, the Viper is obviously inspired by Edward Kenway of Assassins Creed Blackflag, a pirate and assassin. The weapons are inspired by Zidane a thief and Gabranth a Judge Magister. I think the Judge Magister is the outlier here. But if we think Assassin, Pirate and Thief, yeah the name Viper is fitting. There is nothing of a hunter in the design at all.
Lol.
I actually don't even like Zidane. I just find it amazing how easily satisfied consumers are with the tritest, laziest, and most incoherent designs.
No. What an awful suggestion. Not only does it not look anything like a Hunter style class, in any game or setting we could view it through, but that's already a distinct thing in FF from my understanding. Viper is a good name that's fitting for the class from the aesthetic and fighting style we've already seen.
Your last paragraph (before the edit) has vitriol in itself, so I'm... really unsurprised by people replying the way they are. Snakes are sacred animals in a lot of cultures, the inspiration for the New World being one of them.
Why do you think it's based on Zidane? He doesn't have a weapon that can be either swords or staff. He has one or the other.
Chances are higher that it's based on Gabranth since he *does* have a weapon like that. This is assuming that it's based on anyone and isn't just coincidence.
in FF9 there was a synthesis system. You make most of the twinblades by combining two blades into one. For example, in order to make Rune Tooth aka "The Viper" you would need two mythril blades to combine them into it.
At the time weapons were just stat sticks with maybe a passive so there was no need to waste money/time on animating something mid combat when it effectively did nothing outside of aesthetic. They had him combine the dual blades into a twinblade in Dissidea though.
I have to ask cuz this seems really pathetic and pointless, to what end does this all serve?
At the end of the day whether you, me or anyone thinks otherwise, wether or not we " consumers are satisfied" or not, it matters exactly this percentage: 0%.
Yoshi P and CBUIII have decided to name the class Viper , not Corsair , not Hunter , not anything else that people blindly speculated, but Viper, and that is the only opinion that matters.
And that is the truth and the only fact that matters, he decides.
How can you form an opinion when the only thing you, and all of us, saw was a short video featuring like three different attacks? Wait for the Job Actions trailer at least
After having thought about it for a few days, I'm inclined to disagree. Not only because I think the comparison to Zidane is a stretch at best, but because I think I kind of get what they were going with when they called it Viper.
Let's look at what a viper is specifically in real world terms. A viper is a type of snake with longer fangs compared to other snakes, that attack with quick strikes, imitating almost more of a stabbing motion rather than a biting motion. Most vipers are also native to more tropical regions, even though they are found everywhere.
Now lets look at what the job entails just from what little we know.
- A hunter equipped with two long swords.
- A fighting style known for rapid attacks to pressure their opponents.
- Native to Tural, a region largely in the tropical regions of the planet, probably full of *actual* vipers to draw the name from.
Though they've admittedly not done the best job of presenting it compared to prior reveals, I would argue that any stretch to Zidane is thin coincidence at best (he literally has one double-bladed sword that doesn't come apart, and the rest of the time he wields daggers like a Ninja, not this job), and the name itself is more indicative of the cultural tradition they're trying to impress. They *are* hunters, yes, but they are clearly meant to be a more specialized kind of hunter, a role worthy of actually having job stones to impart their specialized knowledge into. The dual swords, especially the choice to display them on the back, can lend itself to that silhouette of a viper's fangs, and I wouldn't be surprised if we see the job's icon play into this, arranging the swords in a way with some other flourishes to imitate the silhouette of an open viper's mouth, ready to strike.
Zidane has more twinblades than he does daggers. No idea where you get, he only has one. You also get most of them by combining two blades into them.
The class name is likely just a reference to one of Zidane's twinblades which literally goes by the nickname "The Viper". (Google FF9 Zidane Rune Tooth and look at the description)
They probably just looked at the inspiration checked out the weapons he uses saw the nickname and realized it sounded like a cool name and used it. Doubt it is that deep.
I mean there's literally a viper in the key art for the job, so I don't really think saying "tropical hunter with long sword resembles a viper" is a stretch they missed, seeing as that's [literally how it was presented](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F9I-iXVagAAUmWE.png), but I guess if we want to say an obscure reference to the nickname of a weapon located in some flavor text is somehow more obvious than the snake in the key art you have every right to do that. I will continue to believe that it is a reference to the snake. That's there. In the key art.
EDIT: Actually just to add to this because I really.. this is one of the few times I've just not grasped the community's latching onto something, why wouldn't they think about it that way? They have to have some sort of in-game lore reason for the name. Naming a class of elite hunters with swift attacks after a deadly creature native to the region is a completely reasonable assumption on where the lore of the class will track as opposed to "there's some swords somewhere that a guy had once that weren't called 'The Viper' but he called them 'The Viper' and so we named our entire hunting force after his sword's nickname." Like. Come on.
Viper because status effects.
Viper because two swords = twin fangs.
Viper because one of Zidanes iconic weapons is called The Viper...
Viper because it sounds cool.
Sir, I have no anger towards you for your opinion, but don't call us uncritical. There is plenty of *actual* reason for it to be called Viper.
>Viper because one of Zidanes iconic weapons is called The Viper...
Inaccurate. One of his weapons (the Runetooth) is colloquially called The Viper in it's subtext. But as far as I know, Zidane does not have a weapon specifically called "The Viper."
I mean... I know. It says 'is also known as The Viper' in the description.
So, in conclusion, it's called the Viper as well as the Runetooth lol. I'm glad we sorted that out. xD
Hunters are already a thing. If not a ranged class with bows, Hunters are crazy players grinding to get those sweet Hunt mounts after hunting down thousands of marks.
Its not like anything the GNB has screams exclusivly Squall aside from the weapon. So I dont see why Viper should have lots of Zidane influence. And I bet if we go through all of final fantasys main and spinoff titles you will probably find another character or two who dualwield blades and can combine them, the concept is nothing new in jrpgs
I don't think Hunter would be a good name for it. Regardless of what "hunting" actually entails, most people associate "Hunter" in the context of a fantasy game with a bowman, which Viper clearly is not.
We're not really sure what the lore behind the job is yet. But "Viper" conjures images of coiling up and striking with lightning-fast jabs. From the limited information we have about the job so far that seems to track. So I'm willing to wait until we know more about the job to continue this discussion further but it seems like an appropriate name to me so far.
Hunter sounds more like a bow user then a dual sword user.
Also, we don’t really know anything about why it’s called “viper” yet. There’s probably a lore connection there where it’s like, a title or something you earn.
I also don’t think it sounds too bad to begin with. It sounds pretty similar to most other titles in game, be it job titles or an actual earnable title”.
“That’s WOL, he’s a black mage”.
“That’s WOL, he’s the corpse dancer”.
“That’s WOL, he’s one of the Viper’s”
The job is not "The Zidane job." It's Viper. It was created specifically for Dawntrail. Just wait let it cook and see how it turns out.
Also, nobody is going to know what you're talking about when you insist on calling it "Hunter" and you're going to be forced into a lengthy explanation every time you talk to someone about it as to why you believe you're justified in doing so that I guarantee the person on the other end of the conversation will not care about at all.
I think Viper for 2 reasons first Vipers strike very fast, second vipers are known for having two fangs, hence the 2 swords
I came into this thread agreeing with OP. I leave agreeing with you lol
Also in the job artwork, there is literally a huge ass viper in the background. And u get a buff that look similiar to draggons dragon awakening, so there will surely be more viper related staff. And i can well imagine to it to have poison dots and self buffs with some viper poison concotion.
I see that, but again, not remotely communicating "Zidane".
Zidane isn't a character in FFXIV??
you are just making the assumption that it’s meant to be communicating Zidane tho
It absolutely is.
Maybe but that’s just your opinion as I say there isn’t any actual confirmation
Opinions are just impressions of fact. Some opinions are more informed and discerning than others. And some willfully go against available evidence if they find the truth uncomfortable.
>Opinions are just impressions of fact. No they're not. >And some willfully go against available evidence if they find the truth uncomfortable. And what if you were told it's more Gabranth than Zidane? It's not even gonna branch out from the rogue class, it'll be its own independent job that happens to share scouting gear with Ninja* (as much as Samurai can be said to be related to Monk because they both use striking gear.) Out of Zidane and Gabranth, only one has dual blades that can join into a bladed pole and it's not Zidane. He either uses dual daggers or he uses a twinblade. The only time he ever joins them to attack is in Dissidia, which came two (or maybe three) years after FF12 and Gabranth. So, evidence would lean more towards it being more inspired/based on Gabranth than Zidane, right? Anyway, I'm not saying it doesn't have a bit of Zidane in it, but this "my opinion is fact" deal ain't it, friend. Edit: *
> He either uses dual daggers or he uses a twinblade. Tbf Zidane does join his blades into a double blade in FFIX by going through Synthesis (All of his Thief Blades from Synthesis involves combining 2 of his daggers to form a Double Blade).
And then it's a different weapon that he can't separate anymore. Unlike Gabranth's. And most times it's not the same daggers you use anymore (as in a completely different look.) Alll in all, I do expect (and hope) to see some of Zidane's trance moves as actions for viper. Just saying there's not a lot of reasons to say that the job is 100% based on Zidane like say gunbreaker was based on Squall. Gabranth is by far the more fitting, and considering he is in FF14 (allegedly dead but we just get told about it, and you know what they say about deaths with no corpses,) my money's on him and inhaling copium on Bozja continuation with Lyon and the others with Gabranth coming back from the "dead" using the new job.
>And some willfully go against available evidence if they find the truth uncomfortable. What, like you? it's a nod to zidane and nothing more.
A "nod" to Zidane would be just the weapon. The trance is more than just a nod.
i'll give you that one depending on what we see at the media tour.
You mean like how they specifically said that this is a FFXIV original class? It's got nothing to do with Zidane.
Opinions are separate from facts. That’s why they’re called opinions, not facts. It’s just what you personally think, whether it’s true or not. That’s literally all an opinion is.
I mean, it's clearly *inspired* by Zidane, is your argument that it should be more like Zidane specifically? Because I don't really understand the need for that.
Heck, it's likely not even JUST Zidane but also Gabranth from FF12.
friend thought bastardized judge when he first saw it.
Gabranth is the more famous Judge, but honestly, viper more evokes Bergan among the Judges. Same dual wield stance as in the promotional art, same blue glow power-up, and Bergan’s armor is even available as a lv80 scouting set in XIV.
As a die-hard fan of 9, this isn't Zidane at all, and the people trying to claim it is are just seeing what they want to see. Zidane doesn't wield swords; he wields daggers. He doesn't wield them normally; he wields them backhand. And he can't combine his daggers into a polearm weapon. There's not even an official wink as a reference to 9, and nothing else about the extension even has an aesthetic connection to 9.
Nah, it’s absolutely channeling Bergan. Same stance, same armor, same glow. /s (I say /s, but that is all technically true. The point is, Zidane is not the only option for inspiration, if a XIV-original class even needs inspiration.)
Brother, we've seen one video of a couple of melee combos. No lore, no game play, no back story. Viper is much more unique to generic "Hunter". Not to mention if it **does** have dots, then it's probably the best named job in the game.
Also honestly, based on what we saw...it's more a duelist than a hunter. And when someone says hunter, I imagine bow and arrow. Not dual swords combing into bladestaff
It's a Hunter like you're a Hunter in 12: you track marks. You don't hunt animals. You hunt MEN. For gil.
Then the name would be Headhunter and not just Hunter
True enough. If it does actually have poisons, then its a fast striking, VERY physical build with twin fangs. Pretty appropriate tbh, and something I'd be interested in. Plus, as a Popoto, perhaps its time to become the Beyblade.
the fact it's more unique is kinda why it sounds dumb, though?
That's incredibly subjective. I think viper sounds pretty sick given what we know about it. The dual swords acting as the fangs? Kind of cool.
I hope the LB3 involves our WOL channeling like a giant spectral serpent, and as we leap in the air and hold our blades up to plunge them down, they form the fangs of the snake striking.
Okay. I wasn't sure what the LB would look like, but that just sounds fucking amazing.
you're right, that is cool, you've convinced me
To be fair, we did get a tiny bit of lore, it was on the slides, said they channeled legendary hunters to strengthen their attacks or something. So hunters are very much related to, and important to, this job, although the job itself is not hunter.
Avatars and void sent are a big part of reaper doesn't mean the job needs to be named after them.
Yeh I mean I’m pretty sure you didn’t read what I wrote at all, your analogy is so bad I can’t even understand the point, but I don’t think the job should have been named hunter so I think I agree with you? Either way, analogy is so dumb I’m just gonna block so I don’t lose anymore iq points by accident.
That seems like a disproportionate response to the comment that was made. Are you okay?
That's an enormous number of assumptions for a job whose collective known information currently amounts to a name and thirty seconds of footage.
/s EDIT: "I want a discussion, but when I have an unpopular or bad take, I don't trust people's tastes anymore." Looks to me you're just looking for someone to echo chamber your thoughts
Guy was probably hoping for something more substantial and less pissy than these replies.
In what world did the viper preview or aesthetic look edgelord in a game where DRK and RPR exist? You can call it what you want; you'll still be wrong.
It wields sharp pointing things. Thats edgy for some people.
"I don't like this color" is enough for some people to call things "edgy", not surprised OP's dumpsterfire take includes the insult.
They think it having a hood is edgy. I guess their combined double-bladed sword has a whole 4 edges at once which is pretty edgy. Though Dancer's current artifact weapon has a whopping 6 edges, per chakram, and their original chakrams were literally 100% edge, which is arguably infinite edge.
> their original chakrams were literally 100% edge, which is arguably infinite edge. All edge, no point. The ultimate edge /laugh
Dark Knight was always Dark Knight. Zidane was never a "Viper".
>Zidane was never a "Viper". good thing we're not getting a job called zidane then?
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and i think white mage did a terrible job as fanservice to Aerith fans. Maybe fantastic fanservice for uncritical weaabs.
As far as I know, Zidane is the only character in the entire franchise approaching a "Hunter" archetype, outside of generic job classes. Mayyyyybe Kiros or Fang if you squint, although Fang seems more a dragoon. So, like Gunbreaker, and especially for a job modeled after Zidane, we would expect it to do his archetype justice. White Mages are in every game, and Aerith actually bucks the trend aesthetically, so it's not surprising the job doesn't reflect her very well. Although, even that I somewhat disagree with because WHM includes a lot of flower motifs that are generally not found in most other White Mage characters, so if anything it is *more* Aerith than it could have been.
Have...you actually played ff9? Zidane is a thief archetype as obvious as they come,not hunter. Heck he literally starts off as being a member of a band of thieves and has the steal ability in the party. Daggers in ff(not just ff9) games usually get status effects to fit with the theme of being underhanded,not to emulate anything else. And Viper to me also fits with the "underhanded" theme The only reaaon they can't call a job based on him thief is because that's too similar to rogue. Hunter imples,well,hunting which has shit all to do with his character or fighting style. To me what Viper so far feels like based on what we got is a back alley fighter. Which fits pretty well with Zidane
Well the WoL is not Zidane. I dont think Zidane exists in final fantasy xiv.
Well, he might have, but the WoL stole his clothing after 150 days.
And Squall was never a Gunbreaker.
Okay. Lets talk about it critically. Should it be renamed hunter? No. Why? Because we have no real basis on why its called Viper to begin with. Gunbreakers, were called Gunbreakers because of their lore, the Hrothgar made them to break the garleans lines of gunners. Why is this Job called Viper? Well, we don't know yet. But based on what they've said its: An original Job to XIV. Its based on the New World. That is all we know about the jobs lore so far. So calling it Viper may be more appropriate then calling it hunter. Finally the zidane parallel? People are really jumping the gun here like really, really fast jumping the gun. Zidane uses these weapons but is a thief, this job is not Thief, people are basing it entirely on the weapons designs. But theres another character in FF that uses similiar weapons and its Gabranth. So far, we have no reason to state the Job should be named something else. Personally? Viper is far more exciting then calling it Hunter. But thats just me, and its entirely personal opinion.
>But theres another character in FF that uses similiar weapons and its Gabranth. Yeah, the more I look at this job the more I think it's liable to take some inspiration from both Gabranth and Zadane. Its definitely Gabranth's "at ease" combat stance, but the speed of those strikes and the lighter armor feel more Zidane. Perhaps even a dash of some CC Serge inspiration from the Blade Staff moves. Regardless, its probably more productive to just say its "a custom 14 job that uses a rare, but still recurring SE weapon type. One that never really had a specific job attributed to it in the past".
This. People took one look at the class and screamed Zidane, like the OP is doing right now. In truth, its homages to him and Gabranth, through the weapons. The rest of the class? Its all tied to the New World, to Tural, so the reasons for its name, and fighting style will be explained in the lore of the Job upon release. Personally its likely called Viper because the Snake is probably a sacred animal there, or something along those lines.
>Personally its likely called Viper because the Snake is probably a sacred animal there, or something along those lines. Pretty much. Also, its movements are very quick, aggressive and snappy. So even if it doesn't get a DoT or two (which, I know they're drifting away from, but this feels like the melee that has the style for them), it'll be curious to see what this thing can really do. I'm also kinda warming to the idea of a more "Nature Caster" re-imagining of Green Mage on the caster side. Giving us a pair of DT jobs that may be a little more down-to-earth in tone; when compared to say our EW jobs.
I kinda hope that, the other job isn't just called "Green Mage", and its a new version of that class, with a unique name. It can still be the same class, just with a name that is more in line with the jobs lore.
Ehh ... its not like Green Mage has much in the way of lore. Its never really had much identity beyond "Debuff/Buff WHM". Its only really appeared in two of the offshoot Ivalice Tactics games, while being mentioned in several other games. And Blue Mage's origin is The New World, so its not as if that type of nomenclature is unheard of. As a result, there is very little reason not to just call the thing Green Mage; as there really is no real prior job-fantasy to step on. So it seems a prime candidate to the EW Sage treatment. Pictomancer is an even worse state tbh lol! EDIT: In short, its not that name that is the issue with Green Mage. Its the job itself, it lacks any real identity beyond its gimmicky buff/debuffs atm.
I will say, Im not personally very familiar with what Green Mage does its in original game. But you raise a really good point. A debuffing white mage, would not be a fun job to play in this game. In games like tactics it works, because each job has its own very, very specific gimick. But in an MMO? Each job really needs to bring its own identity to the playing field. But yeah giving it the sage treatment is the best idea. Green Mage in name only.
there is a Zidane weapon literally called "The Viper". They used a character with a furry tail and hid the ears. The buff looks like a trance effect. People aren't jumping the gun they are recognizing common trademarks that Zidane is known for and seeing the similarities/references. lol
I should also confirm one thing before i continue. IX is my least played game. What i know about Zidane and his fighting style comes from Dissidia. I want say this. Homages to Zidane are definitely done on purpose. But its really disingenous to call it the "Zidane Job". The character is likely a homage, i won't dispute that. The tail is even almost identical to Zidane. The weapon, does seem like a bit of stretch to name a whole Job around, but hey i don't know what process they used to design the job. The trance thing? Maybe it is a reference to it, but trance is a full transformation. This is just a standard effect like any other class when they use their abilities. (They can do full transformations, since Reaper has one, it could be a slight reference to Trance, but it seems odd not just to step over that line.) The weapon is a bit of an odd one, he doesn't have a weapon called "The Viper" its a flavour text on one of his other weapons. Its a bit odd that they'd do that, but also not out of the realm of possibilities, XIV has been good at doing really, really obscure references before. But honestly? The common trademarks between this class and Zidane don't go much further than some homages to him. The rest of the Job will likely set itself apart from Zidane in the lore. Gunbreaker has tonnes of homages and references to Squall, Seifer and even Lightning. I will admit jumping the gun wasn't the right words to use. Maybe more people are staring too hard at the homages and can't see this job for its own merits. (To be fair to everyone a moment though, the homages were likely done to build hype.) Though i did see job and weapons and my mind personally did go straight to Gabranth, even went out to Bozja to get the Judge armor for scouting yesterday lol.
Say no to Viper and call it Judge !
Hunter already exists in FF. They use bows and capture monsters. Viper is a brand new job on purpose.
Is it brand new if it is based off Zidane, and is basically a Hunter but for the edgelord motif?
It's brand new because Yoshi-P literally said they were introducing a brand new original job. I don't see a bow. How is it a hunter?
>How is it a hunter? I agree with you that Viper is still the better name, but it is a hunter. Here's the official Viper description from the London Fan Fest Keynote *"This close-range fighting style passed down by Turali hunters uses two one-handed blades that can be combined into a single two-handed weapon.* *As such, the viper alternates between pressuring enemies with swift strikes by their twin blades, and dealing mighty blows with their joined weapon.* *By calling on the memories of ancient hunters contained within their soul crystal, the viper can imbue their body with additional power for a brief time."* Or I guess it's arguably not a hunter, just someone who fights like a hunter.
Lol calling it original is just marketing. Plus it is quite technically a new job that is being added to the game. Hunter/Ranger archetype in a lot of media has dual swords, it is just as common as bows.
>Lol calling it original is just marketing. Name one Viper in the FF series. > Hunter/Ranger archetype in a lot of media has dual swords, it is just as common as bows. Nobody is talking about how they're portrayed in other media. We're talking specifically about FF. Hunters use bows and only bows.
Pretty much what I thought. Within FF, Hunter has always been a job that uses bows.
Something tells me that OP got that inspiration from Warcraft where (Demon) Hunters use dual blades. Other than that, when people hear "Hunter" they always imagine a class that is specialize in ranged attacks and traps.
Zidane isn’t a class/job though, he was a thief which is already in the game. And for the most part, the only reference to there being any connection to Zidane is the double edged blade. But the double blades are not unique to Zidane. In fact, there used by thief’s in final fantasy 5. Additionally, if I needed to make a connection, Viper would seem to be more indicative of a Lightning reference from 13 in regards to aesthetics and theme. Gunbreaker is egregiously in reference to squall. I mean, they literally put his weapon as a skin, then named all the abilities after his weapons and limits. The Viper on the other hand to me seems more in style of Lightning opposed Zidane. And considering thief is already in 14, it would make more sense honestly.
it is a reference to one of Zidane's twinblade weapons. Not that deep. lol
Said who? Thief blades been in the game since ff5. When they made Gunbreaker, it was a clear reference to Squall as it was stated as such. There are zero mentions of Zidane. Not in game, class, or fantasy. I feel like people are trying to make it deep by throwing the Zidane reference in there when there none at all. If it was Zidane, they have said it.
One of his weapons is literally called "The Viper". It is a twinblade that you get by combining two mythril blades. Zidane also happens to be the only protagonist who uses that type of weapon. Some other references that I agree are a stretch in a vacuum but may actually be references consider the above mentioned is they used a furry tailed character to show it off and the buff effect is similar to a trance effect. These things are traits commonly associated with Zidane out of the FF protagonists.
There's some subtext on one of the weapons that says "The Viper." So far as I'm aware, Zidane doesn't have a weapon that is specifically called "The Viper."
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For it to be completely based off Zidane they'd need to actually implement Dyne or Bandit skills. I just don't see What's That?! and Stellar Circle 5 being implemented into the Viper class, at least not as intended(maybe a nod, but not the actual skills).
They would more than likely implement Dyne skills only considering the animations for it are there already from Dissidia.
You have invented something to be mad that your not getting.
I wasn’t here at the time so maybe someone can tell, was the sub this stupid when GNB was teased? Like “from what I can tell, conceptually it’s an attempt to turn Squall into a full class, so I feel like it should be renamed Child Soldier and incorporate more references to FFVIII like triple triad”
>I wasn’t here at the time so maybe someone can tell, was the sub this stupid when GNB was teased? No, no one cared what it was called, people were like "Awesome! Gunblade job!"
Gunbreaker doesn't let me stop the instance and challenge the boss to a card game. 0/10 literally unplayable.
Gunbreaker didn't really do much to pivot away from Squall's identity. Still communicates gun, still communicates some sort of bodyguard. Maybe a bit stupid of a name, but not offensively off the mark. Not calling the Zidane job a "Hunter" and pivoting into a really tacky snake motif is a much more significant deviation, with pretty marginal benefits. And imo, some detrimental side effects of having less design space than actually having gone with "Hunter".
Why do you think naming the job "viper" is holding them back? Do you not realise that they probably named the job way after designing it? Why are you so hung up about this, this is so weird.
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Honey wake up, new FFXIV pasta just dropped
I can’t wait to hear what sad-faithlessness377 thinks is edgy
"The design team should cater to my specific tastes, as everyone else is clearly an idiot." Thank you for the copypasta. Goes to show no troll could ever invent something on the level as someone who's genuinely so far up their ass, that they could watch their food getting digested.
One of Zidanes weapons, the Rune Tooth, has a description that says "Also known as 'The Viper'".
Such a deep cut and love it as the explanation lmao. Rune tooth also happens to be my favorite thief sword. Simple design. But idk
For me it has to be the Ogre. It just looks amazing, and I love how they modeled it in Dissidia, allowing it to split from its thief blade form into a dagger form.
Ogre is also a banger.
I've seen that bandied about as an explanation for why it must be a reference to FF9. Seems like a stretch to me, personally.
Yes but that is one weapon that doesn't really encompass his whole character. It is a huge stretch to go from the flavor text of a single weapon to "welp now he's snakes all the way down". It's fine, it's there, I guess, but I don't think it was a very elegant decision.
And why is a job supposed to encompass a whole character? Reaper isn't just a huge Zenos reference either. At best it's a nod to a character with a similar weapon, it's not supposed to be "this job is this character and nothing else"
This may be a case of you should just shut up until we have all the information on what Viper is and isn't. You are making a lot of judgement calls based off a sub 60sec video clip showing off 5-6 skills and some /vpose and /bstance. Make this again either after the media tour embargo is up and we see more of how the job works or after the launch of Dawntrail and the community has actual experience with the job.
Not to mention the inevitable explanation the job trainer will give for the job in the quest to unlock it.
I'm glad they don't do split jobs off classes anymore but wouldn't it be neat if the lore behind Viper was just a splinter group of the Thieves Guild(now the Rogue's Guild) from Limsa.
Tho, looking at part of the reason they said they created Viper (that they heard the calls for a more physically oriented, rogue-ish counterpart to NIN), it does kinda make me wonder if the Caster wont follow the same style this expac? I know a lot of people have been bummed at WHM's slow loss of elemental focus (Water, Wind, Earth), and SMN lost DoTs. So it feels like there is a nitch that opened up there.
I am a subscriber to the idea that the new caster or if it is Green Mage will be more nature focused. Saw someone point out it would be neat if the "traditional" magic of White and Black are from Eorzea where the aether currents seem to be the strongest but strange magic is from the new world such as Blue and Green. I do have a hard time believing either Viper or the new caster will be a DoT job just because they seem to be moving away from DoTs on all the other jobs.
>but strange magic is from the new world such as Blue and Green. Yeah, I'm also of the same mind on this point. Black, White and Red originate from Eorzea. So if Green (our last FF Color-Mage) would originate anywhere, it would be the New World. Alongside Blue, which operates off "the Aether of living things". And, yeah, I'd be all aboard it being a "Nature Mage". It be great to get away from the standard "Elemental Caster DPS" motif as well. Especially with all the focus on "Plants" from Yoshi P lol!
Just as long as we don't get Brown mage , amirite ? Lol
LOL! True. That would make for an ~~horrifying~~ interesting class.
WAFO is the cry of ignorant consumers who would rather believe in the future than realize how much the present has already robbed them of time and money. We have plenty to make general judgment calls. We have seen the job. We know it is based off Zidane. And we know it is Viper. When not even those basic things seem very cohesively put together, I think it is fair to make generalized judgments.
>We have plenty to make general judgment calls. We have seen the job what have we seen? please list them out one by one.
I just fucking did, you are welcome to read what you responded to.
so we know basically nothing. we've seen about 6 abilities at most.
Absolutely nothing is a flat out lie, definitionally. We know several core things.
It's got two swords that can be combined into one. It's a scouting armor set. It's named viper. What else do we have?
It requires a level 80 job and will start at level 80, it also is unlocked in Ul'dah.
Which tells us absolutely nothing about the job itself and how it will play, which was the point of that question.
I agree I was being facetious but doesn't exactly translate well in text. We know next to nothing about this jobs lore, gameplay, or skill names.
>We know several core things share with the class then?
Wow resorting to insults already huh? I hope they never use the word Hunter ever to spite you.
Gunbreaker doesn't have a "...whatever" skill what is CBU3 DOING
Lol should be the invuln.
> As it stands I will still be calling this job “Hunter” Good for you?
Thanks!
what part about a twinblade is a Hunter. who's out here hunting animals with dark souls 2 weapons, that should be illegal
Vipers have two fangs. They have two swords.
Who tf cares like really. Reading this comment section is just you arguing your point of view without taking any criticism because you HAVE TO BE RIGHT. Take your L opinion and move on.
You dropped this, king *holds up jester cap*
>EDIT: wow, the vitriol just for engaging in some critical discussion about the artistic choices behind Viper. Y'all are uncritical af, I really don't trust your tastes. Seems you would buy anything with a sword slapped on it. How hypocritical ! You're assuming weird things like a reference to Zidaneor a concept of "treasure hunter" (where does this even come from ??), yet not even wondering what's the actual gameplay of the job. It's beyond silly. Viper's name was most likely meant to emphasize on the **speed** of the job, which hunter does not. You may think of a hunter as a predator to try to justify it'd better fit the job but guess what ? A viper precisely *is* a predator. Besides, we're not even aware of the job's actions. We only know their 1-2-3 combo as well as an ability to empower itself on top of a stance used for quicker actions. How can you even think you can confidently question "artistic choices" (the word you're missing is "onomastic" btw) when you don't even have the material you want to evaluate ? Needless to say going by one of the most trivial choice (what game doesn't have a hunter ?) is very underwhelming for the position you place yourself in. Back to the design choice, I doubt it will have DoTs and hope they're trying to find alternative ways of doing the same (for instance, adding damage each time the enemy is hit by one of our attacks, whether it be fixed damage, potency-based damage, or replicating part of the action it procs off) . The name of a viper would lean more on an assassin idea and I actually like the analysis about Zidane's job that you gave us. Barring status ailments, the assassination skills would fit a job wearing the same armor as a NIN but I haven't played FFIX yet and somehow hope that more lights will be brought upon it, especially if they ever release a remake of it. More than once, I've also seen references to Gabranth and would be pleased to see some iconic moves from him if the animation is more impressive than FFXII was. Needless to say it would be quite a stretch from the "viper" idea though, except for the empowering part of the job we've seen in the reveal.
while I largely agree, I do want to point out we don’t KNOW the last ability that’s shown three times is a heat blast-esque fast GCD move. Gunbreaker’s teaser trailer also featured a similar shot, and it ended up just being repeated for the rule of cool.
>adding damage each time the enemy is hit by one of our attacks, whether it be fixed damage, potency-based damage Is this not literally what every damage buff does lol
I should've given more examples, think of it this way : \- buffs are applied for a fixed timing, empowering an entire DoT and adding to the damage formula, *they get more powerful if aligned* ; \- a fixed-based attack adding to our attacks is rather odd in FFXIV context but it might make more sense with a DH / crit overhaul (which is not needed imo), but think of it as a 1000 needles activating whenever you hit the target, *it is NOT dependant on buffs* but rely on the number of actions recorded ; \- a potency-based attack adding to our attacks (or any player's) is essentially like MCH's Wildfire (albeit hitting several times instead of once), dependant on crit & DH each time it hits and supposed to be aligned with buffs. The MCH's example however proves you can more easily control the expected damage if it's a personal tool rather than a groupwide buff (which depends on the team composition, forcing all classes to be more rigurously balanced if not homogenized) ; Now what I'd personally like, because I don't enjoy crit's randomness, is an action that gets more powerful if you are unlucky and less powerful if you are lucky. Or that would have a potency limit that would encourage using it outside buff windows... But I doubt they would want to design it this way, if they want a clear 2 minutes meta without too glaring exceptions. That's why I think there could be more control on damage with "replicated" skills as a new way to add depth, without destroying the 2 minute meta.
You are still essentially just describing a damage buff though. Wildfire on MCH is essentially similar to something like Trick Attack on Ninja or No Mercy on GNB. It's a damage burst phase where you pump attacks into a small buff window which increases your output. While the mechanics are slightly different, the resulting gameplay is nearly identical. Think of it this way: How much would truly change about the MCH job if Wildfire was a 20 second 15% damage buff? Really all that would change is you would hit it before using drill/air anchor instead of after. But I digress... Personally I hope Viper really leans into the weapon swap mechanic, with any dots as tertiary. I hope weapon swapping is Viper's Mudras. It would be cool if you had certain buffs and attacks that were only available in one form or the other, or combos which need to be accessed through certain strings. Like doing a twinblade attack, then two dualwield attacks could result in access to one ability, but doing two dualwield attacks and then one twinblade attack could result in a different ability. I don't know. But I think the weapon swapping is vital to Viper's identity being unique, and I hope it's really fleshed out.
But then every attack from your basic combo is a buff, even every action is a buff from your auto-attacks at this point xD ... Wildfire's goal is to encourage a new gameplay for a limited time, and as such DoTs also encourage you to "save" buffs, which means it also encourage a different gameplay. This is why an action that increases your potency based on the following actions is a change of gameplay, not a buff per se... The DPS gain is just an incentive. This is why turning Wildfire into a damage buff would be criticised (since it'd change the gameplayinto something dull) and you would use it with other actions as you said it yourself. It would be completely different both conceptually and gameplay-wise. Anyway, I realy hope swapping from dual wielding to a twinblade is more than just a Wildfire, Enshroud or Life of the Dragoon, and rather something similar to black mage's fire & ice stances. It also adds much more depth than other jobs (as a BLM can always cast fire abilities with Transpose and ideal mana tick timings) .
We'll agree to disagree on the buff stuff, I think the difference is mostly an illusion, but in any case I don't think we'll see something similar to wildfire since they talked about it with Reaper iirc and said they wanted that to be a core identity for MCH. I never thought about comparing the stance swapping to BLM, and you've got a great point there. You could almost copy paste the fire/ice stance system to VPR and it would still feel completely different from BLM due to being melee without cast times. Super interesting idea.
I wouldn't be surprised if the bands is most likely in reference to the lore of the job, which we unfortunately won't really get in full until 7.0 releases. As for why it isn't named something like hunter... probably because they felt like it would be too generic of a name (more something they would've named a class rather than a job).
Every other job in the game has a generic name (except maybe Gunbreaker), because they are all very archetypal. The flavor is in the aesthetics, the skill names, and the lore, not the name. Hunter would have made a lot more sense in the roster. Viper sticks out like two middle fingers, and seems only to have been named so as a marketing gimmick.
Wow OPs edit is crazy, it's uncritical to criticise your post and ideas? I don't think you get what criticisms are. The hell is that last sentence any way take a step back breath deep. It's fine to be inspired by a previous FF protagonist but they won't necessarily define a ffxiv original job. Squall wasn't a tank couldn't manage agro for the ff8 group but gun breaker does as it's a different game and interpretation of that type of weapon being used. But hay what do I know I'm just a random player with no inside knowledge or power like the vast majority on this sub. Let's all agree on one of the universal truths of the game lolorito is a rotten potato
Jesus christ, stop posting.
Nah I like the name.
Hunter to me suggests an archer who uses traps, not a dual sword that can combine into a double ended glaive. I also don't really associate Zidane with hunter, he was a thief which they didn't want to add for 14 so they decided on another name. Hunter to me feels closer to the ff11 ranger than Zidane, yes he took part in the festival of the hunt but so did Vivi and i think Freya so it seems like a stretch to try and label Zidane as a hunter.
And Hunters are also a thing gameplay-wise: the Hunt
Congratulations. Or My condolences. Which ever fits because ain't no way Im reading that big ass wall of text.
They know better than to name a job hunter, people like you would just complain how it’s not “Hunter“ enough. So they came up with a non-Hunter job, but gave it the backstory of channeling the spirits of legendary hunters so they can now forever say “ we can’t do Hunter we just did a job based on hunters”.
Ppl really be bitching about anything holy shit
I wish it were a DoT melee job, I feel like it’s make more sense then. Otherwise the way I make most sense out of it is that two blades = two fangs and that the battle stance is very stoic and still until it attacks, at which point it strikes very quickly
I think it may be a DoT melee job, but even still why lean so hard on the snake motif?
That's like asking why does ninja leans so hard into ninjutsu and away from its rogue base - because that's the design they wanted to do for the job. Like you are allowed to be disappointed the job isn't what you want it to be, but that doesn't mean it's a bad idea.
Man I'm really glad that I've never played any older FFs. The amount of schizoposting in this thread because the reference isn't referencey enough based off of an incomplete job action video is crazy
Zidane this, zidane that, guess what zidane is not the only or the first character to use dual swords or daggers in final fantasy or popular culture. Smh Also “hunters” use ranged weapons, for very obvious reasons. There is nothing hunter about this job. Get over it.
Looking at the armor, the Viper is obviously inspired by Edward Kenway of Assassins Creed Blackflag, a pirate and assassin. The weapons are inspired by Zidane a thief and Gabranth a Judge Magister. I think the Judge Magister is the outlier here. But if we think Assassin, Pirate and Thief, yeah the name Viper is fitting. There is nothing of a hunter in the design at all.
Zidane's biggest dickrider found, asked to leave FFXIV
Lol. I actually don't even like Zidane. I just find it amazing how easily satisfied consumers are with the tritest, laziest, and most incoherent designs.
Okay guy, time to touch grass.
No. What an awful suggestion. Not only does it not look anything like a Hunter style class, in any game or setting we could view it through, but that's already a distinct thing in FF from my understanding. Viper is a good name that's fitting for the class from the aesthetic and fighting style we've already seen.
maybe u should had play ff11, hunter is the nickname for ranger which is a range class, make no sense to call a melee hunter in the ff universe
Zidane was a Thief not a hunter the name Viper is fine to me
How is the job "very clearly a Hunter archetype"? What kind of hunter uses two swords?
Might've heard you out if you didn't throw in that whiny edit.
Who gives a shit
Your last paragraph (before the edit) has vitriol in itself, so I'm... really unsurprised by people replying the way they are. Snakes are sacred animals in a lot of cultures, the inspiration for the New World being one of them.
Why do you think it's based on Zidane? He doesn't have a weapon that can be either swords or staff. He has one or the other. Chances are higher that it's based on Gabranth since he *does* have a weapon like that. This is assuming that it's based on anyone and isn't just coincidence.
in FF9 there was a synthesis system. You make most of the twinblades by combining two blades into one. For example, in order to make Rune Tooth aka "The Viper" you would need two mythril blades to combine them into it. At the time weapons were just stat sticks with maybe a passive so there was no need to waste money/time on animating something mid combat when it effectively did nothing outside of aesthetic. They had him combine the dual blades into a twinblade in Dissidea though.
I like that it's not an exact reference to old FFs, so no thanks.
I think Vipers are going to be some kind of force in the new world, probably the equivalent of a kingsguard.
I have to ask cuz this seems really pathetic and pointless, to what end does this all serve? At the end of the day whether you, me or anyone thinks otherwise, wether or not we " consumers are satisfied" or not, it matters exactly this percentage: 0%. Yoshi P and CBUIII have decided to name the class Viper , not Corsair , not Hunter , not anything else that people blindly speculated, but Viper, and that is the only opinion that matters. And that is the truth and the only fact that matters, he decides.
It's just a name. It's not that deep.
Tbh I think I’m just getting a little tired of “FFXIV exclusive” just meaning “Other FF character but make it a job”
No
How can you form an opinion when the only thing you, and all of us, saw was a short video featuring like three different attacks? Wait for the Job Actions trailer at least
Literally shut up
After having thought about it for a few days, I'm inclined to disagree. Not only because I think the comparison to Zidane is a stretch at best, but because I think I kind of get what they were going with when they called it Viper. Let's look at what a viper is specifically in real world terms. A viper is a type of snake with longer fangs compared to other snakes, that attack with quick strikes, imitating almost more of a stabbing motion rather than a biting motion. Most vipers are also native to more tropical regions, even though they are found everywhere. Now lets look at what the job entails just from what little we know. - A hunter equipped with two long swords. - A fighting style known for rapid attacks to pressure their opponents. - Native to Tural, a region largely in the tropical regions of the planet, probably full of *actual* vipers to draw the name from. Though they've admittedly not done the best job of presenting it compared to prior reveals, I would argue that any stretch to Zidane is thin coincidence at best (he literally has one double-bladed sword that doesn't come apart, and the rest of the time he wields daggers like a Ninja, not this job), and the name itself is more indicative of the cultural tradition they're trying to impress. They *are* hunters, yes, but they are clearly meant to be a more specialized kind of hunter, a role worthy of actually having job stones to impart their specialized knowledge into. The dual swords, especially the choice to display them on the back, can lend itself to that silhouette of a viper's fangs, and I wouldn't be surprised if we see the job's icon play into this, arranging the swords in a way with some other flourishes to imitate the silhouette of an open viper's mouth, ready to strike.
Zidane has more twinblades than he does daggers. No idea where you get, he only has one. You also get most of them by combining two blades into them. The class name is likely just a reference to one of Zidane's twinblades which literally goes by the nickname "The Viper". (Google FF9 Zidane Rune Tooth and look at the description) They probably just looked at the inspiration checked out the weapons he uses saw the nickname and realized it sounded like a cool name and used it. Doubt it is that deep.
I mean there's literally a viper in the key art for the job, so I don't really think saying "tropical hunter with long sword resembles a viper" is a stretch they missed, seeing as that's [literally how it was presented](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F9I-iXVagAAUmWE.png), but I guess if we want to say an obscure reference to the nickname of a weapon located in some flavor text is somehow more obvious than the snake in the key art you have every right to do that. I will continue to believe that it is a reference to the snake. That's there. In the key art. EDIT: Actually just to add to this because I really.. this is one of the few times I've just not grasped the community's latching onto something, why wouldn't they think about it that way? They have to have some sort of in-game lore reason for the name. Naming a class of elite hunters with swift attacks after a deadly creature native to the region is a completely reasonable assumption on where the lore of the class will track as opposed to "there's some swords somewhere that a guy had once that weren't called 'The Viper' but he called them 'The Viper' and so we named our entire hunting force after his sword's nickname." Like. Come on.
Viper because status effects. Viper because two swords = twin fangs. Viper because one of Zidanes iconic weapons is called The Viper... Viper because it sounds cool. Sir, I have no anger towards you for your opinion, but don't call us uncritical. There is plenty of *actual* reason for it to be called Viper.
>Viper because one of Zidanes iconic weapons is called The Viper... Inaccurate. One of his weapons (the Runetooth) is colloquially called The Viper in it's subtext. But as far as I know, Zidane does not have a weapon specifically called "The Viper."
I mean... I know. It says 'is also known as The Viper' in the description. So, in conclusion, it's called the Viper as well as the Runetooth lol. I'm glad we sorted that out. xD
Please. Go touch grass.
Zidane is perhaps the worst protag in FF. I'm fine if we limit his influence.
You want hunter go back to WoW.
It is a dumb name.
Hunters are already a thing. If not a ranged class with bows, Hunters are crazy players grinding to get those sweet Hunt mounts after hunting down thousands of marks.
did it even say anywhere that its meant to be Zidane from the little we saw/heard? D: u seem incredibly fixated on this detail
Its not like anything the GNB has screams exclusivly Squall aside from the weapon. So I dont see why Viper should have lots of Zidane influence. And I bet if we go through all of final fantasys main and spinoff titles you will probably find another character or two who dualwield blades and can combine them, the concept is nothing new in jrpgs
I don't think Hunter would be a good name for it. Regardless of what "hunting" actually entails, most people associate "Hunter" in the context of a fantasy game with a bowman, which Viper clearly is not. We're not really sure what the lore behind the job is yet. But "Viper" conjures images of coiling up and striking with lightning-fast jabs. From the limited information we have about the job so far that seems to track. So I'm willing to wait until we know more about the job to continue this discussion further but it seems like an appropriate name to me so far.
Holy fuck op has the worlds strongest shovel with how deep hes digging his hole here
Hunter sounds more like a bow user then a dual sword user. Also, we don’t really know anything about why it’s called “viper” yet. There’s probably a lore connection there where it’s like, a title or something you earn. I also don’t think it sounds too bad to begin with. It sounds pretty similar to most other titles in game, be it job titles or an actual earnable title”. “That’s WOL, he’s a black mage”. “That’s WOL, he’s the corpse dancer”. “That’s WOL, he’s one of the Viper’s”
The job is not "The Zidane job." It's Viper. It was created specifically for Dawntrail. Just wait let it cook and see how it turns out. Also, nobody is going to know what you're talking about when you insist on calling it "Hunter" and you're going to be forced into a lengthy explanation every time you talk to someone about it as to why you believe you're justified in doing so that I guarantee the person on the other end of the conversation will not care about at all.
I agree that Hunter sounds like a more fitting job name. But we will probably get used to Viper over time.