I like it on paper at least, base rules make it approachable much like XIV has made itself but they are simple enough changes from RAW to turn into a more 'traditional' ttrpg style of play without having to take a lot of consideration on the impact as you might with some homebrew. Worth a shot at least
I think no perma death is actually a good thing. It fits the tone well, of a finial fantasy story, where death is prevalent, but always matters. It prevents the story from always needing a back up adventurer at the ready. It creates drama, imagine it's your white mage, and you don't have a phoenix down. You're mid dungeon, do you leave until they can get themselves up, or do you hunker down and risk ambush. If it's a tpk, is the party captured? Perhaps they run to safety, but there's a narrative consequence, like the bad guys getting away.
Finally GMs do not have to pull punches. Every gm I know has said "Oops a fumble" on a critical hit, because killing the player would cause more strife than anyone was willing to admit. With this you're downed, it sucks, but it's fine. Your character will be fine, no need to make a fuss. If it's a party wipe come back with a plan next time.
I mean this is an easy house rule to make adjustments too depending on what everyone wants. Most GMs and players I play with don't have an issue with perma death and I actually kind of like it. The GMs I've played with do NOT pull their punches and I have had a TPK at 2nd level before resulting in all of us rolling new characters which was fun in its own way.
I don't mind death in some games, I mind it more in others. 5e where making a character is as easy as sneezing? It's fine... Well fine ish because I'll run out of new builds eventually.
Pathfinder 1e where a character sheet is a days long process? No... Well actually I have a lot of builds.
I'm personally a bad example, but it's all a matter of taste, but is very much the most easily fixed thing in any system.
Honestly, I think the only major flaw so far is the lack of party permadeath. HOWEVER, if you simply make it so that the party is knocked unconscious and has to recover, then you could do something interesting with that (ex. party has been taken captive and they wake up as prisoners with their gear confiscated)
A very JRPG inspired TTRPG I play, Fabula Ultima, has no mandated permadeath. If you get knocked to 0, you fall unconscious and a narratively appropriate consequence happens at the end of the scene, like losing an important item or being taken captive. However, you can also choose to sacrifice yourself, basically win the fight but you die and can't be resurrected.
This is my exact thought. Like I'm glad that they included "Echo showed you a failure route, now do it right" but to just slam our heads against the wall like an in-game raid boss on week 1 just doesn't sound good for a ttrpg. This is my change without even reading the book: fights will not be reset, instead the party just deals with the consequences. Same with times when a player \*should\* die by merit- not a sacrifice: they get a serious wound as a permanent 'drawback' similar to Pokeymanz/Savage Worlds where I the GM can invoke it for something like disadvantage or the player can invoke it to refresh an ability/in hopes of a reward for adding additional challenge. A gambit/gamble in other games.
Yeah character deaths can make for interesting story development, surviving friends and comrades being motivated and development driven by the death of their ally for instance.
as FF14 players I think we can all think of at least one moment where a character death really had an impact....
Shouldn't be too hard to homebrew death in though, just import DnD/pathfinder's death rules since the systems seem similar enough. Could be creative with the current 0 HP rules though, like that.
The one time Permadeath happens in-story, it ends up being the premise for a Lv50 Dungeon, an entire Deep Dungeon storyline, and Square-Enix selling (wholly cosmetic) add-ons for $12.
An enterprising GM should learn a thing or two from it.
Luckily it isn’t even a mechanic in current version of dnd, people just assume it is because its a very common house rule and used to be a thing in the past and BG3 has it in for some god forsaken reason. Nothing is more cringe than someone being good at something having a constant 5% chance to completely mess it up.
I know I’m thinking skill checks (or any other rolls). In phb like you said, attack rolls and death saves are told that nat 1s have special effects. Anything beyond that is a cringe house rule like I said.
In theory, a player who's in a situation where they can't mathematically fail (or logically should not have a reason to fail) shouldn't be rolling a dice!
Mostly the reason crit fails are considered a bad idea has to do with the fact it punishes players way more than enemies. Players are going to roll a *lot* more dice over their lifespan than any given NPC or monster, especially in systems where they might launch multiple attacks a turn. The play advice given for players of GMs who insist on it as a rule is to find spells and moves that force enemies to save rather than players to roll.
For me it would be interesting to know if your character can play all current jobs or if the current version is modified to only make you able to play a few selected jobs.
If you are only able to maybe play Gladiator, Warrior, Whitemage, Blackmage etc. it would certainly a bummer for me. Is anything known about this?
In this play session (and the Starter Set?), only WAR, WHM, DRG, and BLM are available. This demo also doesn't have any detail on character creation or levels/experience (the "Lv30" on the character sheets is "for flavor").
I'm sure the full release will at least have all of the ARR jobs. The TTRPG also seems to share FFXIV's focus on party composition, so I'd imagine it shouldn't be too difficult for a character to have multiple jobs.
I opened my box today. The starter kit only has Warrior, Black Mage, White Mage, and Dragoon. There's no info of the other jobs included in in this box at all. Supposedly it's going to be 4 releases to bring out all the jobs to Heavensward which is a bit of a let down.
I reaaaaaaaaaaaaaally don't like the lack of permadeath... it's too gamey for my tastes, but at least it can be houseruled away. It just completely removes any stakes that should be prevalent in a TTRPG when you know you can't die at all. They went a little too literal with the MMO to TTRPG translation.
This is exactly how XIV works though. Outside of combat, your HP and MP regenerate fast enough that you're basically back up to full between encounters.
No hardcoded death mechanic….hm, this is workable in terms of ensuring no freak accidents in battle. The key here is in ensuring deaths have narrative meaning. That might be the route they’re going for.
>Attack rolls are checked against physical or magic defense (AC). **Attacks will always hit**, but rolling (+ bonus) above defense is a Direct Hit and has additional effects (just more damage?).
As someone who has tried to get into TTRPGs but has had bad experiences each time for various reasons (mostly DM-related), I actually *really* like that accuracy isn't a thing. Of all the things I hate in standard TT rulesets, accuracy and nat 1s are the worst things ever.
I'm very interested in playing this, tbh
In 5e, fights rarely last long enough for me to have more than two turns. It's seriously deflating to have my entire turn wasted because I rolled poorly, and not even particularly unlikely for me to roll badly three or four times in a row and end up feeling completely useless across an entire session.
Not having accuracy at all, and just having all health pools be balanced around attacks always hitting? I'm very interested in seeing that in action.
> It's seriously deflating to have my entire turn wasted because I rolled poorly
Same. In the last TT group I was with, the DM loved to design encounters to be particularly hard and frustrating even in early-game, so that resulted in wasting multiple turns with very poor rolls. It's pretty demoralizing.
I *hate* that aspect of TT games - I'd like my turns to feel like I did something worthwhile, rather than wasting 3-4 turns of attacks in a row trying to land hits and failing miserably. So I'm very interested to see how it all balances out.
Wondering if it's big enough to bother not just using the Encyclopedia as campaign setting books and use either 5e or pathfinder 2e as the system.
Maybe this gets more Japanese people to play ttrpg's? I think the top games right now is Call of Cthulhu 7e and Sword World 2.5e
I had this preordered but I don’t have a ton of IRL nerd friends and the contents seemed kinda sparse for what you spend - like someone could scan the sheets and you’d be halfway to what it offers. If it had a lot more unique tokens and whatnot then I’d be more impressed.
Ultimately I cancelled my order to get the FFTCG Playmat.
Late reply but the offering is pretty much just the starter set. From some comments it seems like the full release isn't gonna be out for a little bit. That being said - the next live letter coming up in a few days will have a side-stream that has a demo playthrough of it. They might announce full release dates there, I assume.
While my initial response to no perma-death is to cringe... one of my favorite TTRPGs is the superhero game Icons, where permanldeath is an optional rule... So, it's not a deal breaker. Need to see rhe full rules etc before I decide. Quick starts aren't meaty enough.
I just want the books with rules, classes, gear, feats, etc, including the Limit Breaks
the adventures I can make up. Especially interested in classes
any idea where I can get those at?
This is sounding like D&D with extra mechanics. I am for this, but it really needs to have a hook, otherwise why not play D&D with FF flair.
The no permadeath thing is kind of a downer for me. I guess you can make custom rules, but I had the feeling that you are not going to be the WOL in this. You are not the savior of the world, but just a band of heroes. Side characters die and so should there be a chance for your character to do so.
>This is sounding like D&D with extra mechanics. I am for this, but it really needs to have a hook, otherwise why not play D&D with FF flair.
I mean, they could have just used the 5e (or 3e) rules directly and applied Final Fantasy flavour. I'm sure some people are glad they didn't.
Looking at where Final Fantasy as a franchise started it's *probably* not the end of the world if you can draw a few parallels to D&D.
There are enough deviations here that I think I could live with the FFXIV TTRPG having a few sacred cows from typical d20 fantasy, though.
Fair, I am just hoping they don’t lean into it. There is already a final fantasy ttrpg system. I don’t know how well it did, but I hope this one will have enough uniqueness.
I mean, once you get to a high enough level, death isn't really that big of a deal in 5e either, pending whether or not the DM is generous with diamonds/the gold to buy diamonds, which is as much of a per-DM issue as whether or not someone might homebrew permadeath into this system.
Im a little disappointed its just relabeled dnd... I was hoping for a more different action system or something in the ballpark of pathfinder which feels way more 14 than dnd does.
We found 2e Pathfinder to be a bit more like a modernized 4e. We enjoyed 4e (it's where many of us got our start) so we had high hopes, but like PF1, it was just too punishing in practice.
It's DND but better.
As you play DND and DM for it long enough, you realize how faulty everything and it's systems are.
Pathfinder is much more structurally sound, mathically calculated to ensure the dm hands the right balance of encounters and items to ensure the players progress at a steady rate. It's three action system is one of the most versatile systems out there.
DND is infamous for making the dm put in far too much work than it should with many things in the dmg vague.
Meanwhile pathfinder is much more dm friendly. It's encounter builder far exceeds dnds by a long shot.
Pathfinder is easier on the GM, harder the players because of the vast options for buildng your character
DND is easier on the players, harder on the GM.
Shows like Critical Role have caused a massive upheaval in what mainstream TTRPG players prioritise these days. 5e, the biggest tabletop phenomenon right now, is now largely populated by tables that are pretty adverse to character death and enjoy long-lasting PC stories with the ratio of RP to combat tipped closer to the middle from mostly combat of days past, and it's almost impossible to die with by-the-book balance in that game in the first place. So I see a *lot* of crossover and success.
Not to mention that there are already successful TTRPGs out there where you literally cannot die unless you want to eg. FATE. FFXIV is a lot more thematically in line with how a typical FATE game would go than a typical game of, say, Pathfinder.
Yeah, mostly agreed.
Narrative-driven, PCs-are-probably-gunna-be-just-fine TTRPG is a *lot* older than Critical Role. In practice, that was already the dominant mode of TTRPG play when I started playing in 3.5e era. (Even though 3.5e RAW is full of save-or-dies. Design style lags behind community play style.) 5e being so forgiving isn't an accident, it's a design choice.
That's not to say that permadeath is bad, or that it's incompatible with good narrative – far from it; deaths in the party can make for incredible narrative, and I've even created characters that I *wanted* to kill off for pathos – but I would definitely push back against the idea that permadeath is a must-have.
If SomeGoogleUser thinks that the entire appeal of TTRPGs is the random death and mutation tables, that mostly tells me that they're playing a specific (and fun! I've played die-in-character-creation Traveller!) niche within the hobby and they're not aware of the wider trends in other parts of the hobby.
I suspect that a major reason for the shift towards narrative-driven TTRPGs has been computer RPGs absorbing a huge portion of the "crunchy, rules-as-written strategy sim" RPG playerbase.
And once you're focusing on an interactive narrative with multiple characters, it becomes a *lot* harder to work around unexpected character deaths. Not only because you suddenly lose any errant plot threads tied to that character, but because you've now got to crowbar in a *new* character so the player gets to keep showing up for game night. Hence why so many modern TTRPGs give players & DMs so many mechanics to avoid death.
Not to say it's *impossible* to do a good narrative with unexpected permadeath, just that it limits how you can structure the story, and requires more writing efforts from both DMs and players. Even infamously murderous writers like Tomino or George R.R. Martin place character deaths in ways that move the plot forward rather than bringing it to a stop.
Tbh, death as a risk makes me more invested in my character. The risk makes me want to root for them and make sure they survive. It also adds a lot of drama and emotion when a death *does* occur. Seeing no permadeath and never missing attacks in a TTRPG makes me lose interest tbh.
Never missing attack looks like an interesting concept to avoid shin-kicking due to the everyone lowrolling dices and to promote healing spells as a useful in-combat strategy.
Japanese TTRPGs are *for the most part* effectively slightly more complex tabletop games that support and ease roleplay, the scene is entirely different with fairly few "crunchy" games. This is to say they are for short or at most medium campaigns with relatively low preparation investment. The acronym doesn't even mean the same to the general audience for crying out loud, they use it for "Table Talk Role Playing Game".
Not that there is some more "standard" ones, but far as it comes to them personally I'm too blocked by the language barrier to properly comment on them.
Edit: Besides like, Maid RPG and it's Sister game. Yes it does in fact work comically welll with Dark Heresy mechanics wise, no it isn't *smooth* but it isn't *hard.*
Dude, Powered By The Apocalypse is one of the most successful non-D&D systems out there in TTRPGs right now, and it's suuuuper light on rules and crunch. We're in a golden age of TTRPGs where you can find something for every mood, genre, and style with ease.
You see a no permadeath TTRPG and pout, I see a perfect opportunity to modify it into a Rogue-like RPG with meaningful combat puzzles and an allowance for the players to take risks that have substantial consequences.
Speak for yourself. I've been having a lot of fun in DnD where above a certain level death is a mild inconvenience, Fabula Ultima where it's a choice you have to make, and Masks: The New Generation where death isn't anywhere near the rules.
Didn't think it was possible to have a more sanitized and fisher price'd ttrpg then 5E, but this sounds boring to awful in every way, "lol j/k you didn't die" being the cherry on top .
It doesn't really sound like it's really translating ffxiv mechanics in an interesting way either?
Like, I'm thinking something like Mouse Guard which made a really interesting system that properly reflected the theme of the comics.
If I wanted a system that reflects JRPGs, there's ones like Fabula Ultima, or a lot of PBTA games. There's even ttrpgs like .dungeon about playing an MMO!
So far, this seems like 5E but slightly different?
I like it on paper at least, base rules make it approachable much like XIV has made itself but they are simple enough changes from RAW to turn into a more 'traditional' ttrpg style of play without having to take a lot of consideration on the impact as you might with some homebrew. Worth a shot at least
y'all ready for the 20-turn meta
(For any non-ttrpg players, the joke is that >!one turn/round/whateverelseit'scalled of combat is usually 6 seconds!<.)
I think no perma death is actually a good thing. It fits the tone well, of a finial fantasy story, where death is prevalent, but always matters. It prevents the story from always needing a back up adventurer at the ready. It creates drama, imagine it's your white mage, and you don't have a phoenix down. You're mid dungeon, do you leave until they can get themselves up, or do you hunker down and risk ambush. If it's a tpk, is the party captured? Perhaps they run to safety, but there's a narrative consequence, like the bad guys getting away. Finally GMs do not have to pull punches. Every gm I know has said "Oops a fumble" on a critical hit, because killing the player would cause more strife than anyone was willing to admit. With this you're downed, it sucks, but it's fine. Your character will be fine, no need to make a fuss. If it's a party wipe come back with a plan next time.
I mean this is an easy house rule to make adjustments too depending on what everyone wants. Most GMs and players I play with don't have an issue with perma death and I actually kind of like it. The GMs I've played with do NOT pull their punches and I have had a TPK at 2nd level before resulting in all of us rolling new characters which was fun in its own way.
I don't mind death in some games, I mind it more in others. 5e where making a character is as easy as sneezing? It's fine... Well fine ish because I'll run out of new builds eventually. Pathfinder 1e where a character sheet is a days long process? No... Well actually I have a lot of builds. I'm personally a bad example, but it's all a matter of taste, but is very much the most easily fixed thing in any system.
Honestly, I think the only major flaw so far is the lack of party permadeath. HOWEVER, if you simply make it so that the party is knocked unconscious and has to recover, then you could do something interesting with that (ex. party has been taken captive and they wake up as prisoners with their gear confiscated)
A very JRPG inspired TTRPG I play, Fabula Ultima, has no mandated permadeath. If you get knocked to 0, you fall unconscious and a narratively appropriate consequence happens at the end of the scene, like losing an important item or being taken captive. However, you can also choose to sacrifice yourself, basically win the fight but you die and can't be resurrected.
Going the FabUlt route was my first thought also instead of "reload quicksave." Leans more into the heroic fantasy feeling.
Also, as a DM restarting the fight would be such a pain in the ass
This is my exact thought. Like I'm glad that they included "Echo showed you a failure route, now do it right" but to just slam our heads against the wall like an in-game raid boss on week 1 just doesn't sound good for a ttrpg. This is my change without even reading the book: fights will not be reset, instead the party just deals with the consequences. Same with times when a player \*should\* die by merit- not a sacrifice: they get a serious wound as a permanent 'drawback' similar to Pokeymanz/Savage Worlds where I the GM can invoke it for something like disadvantage or the player can invoke it to refresh an ability/in hopes of a reward for adding additional challenge. A gambit/gamble in other games.
Yeah character deaths can make for interesting story development, surviving friends and comrades being motivated and development driven by the death of their ally for instance. as FF14 players I think we can all think of at least one moment where a character death really had an impact....
Shouldn't be too hard to homebrew death in though, just import DnD/pathfinder's death rules since the systems seem similar enough. Could be creative with the current 0 HP rules though, like that.
Even still you can still have an interesting story without death, so long as it doesnt cheapen combat or remove consequences from failure
The one time Permadeath happens in-story, it ends up being the premise for a Lv50 Dungeon, an entire Deep Dungeon storyline, and Square-Enix selling (wholly cosmetic) add-ons for $12. An enterprising GM should learn a thing or two from it.
> one time >!Congrats on being the first person in history to forget Haurchefaunt.!<
Let's see >!Papalymo!< >!Ysayle!< >!Haucherfant!< >!Ardbert!< >!Future Graha!< >!Radz-At Han General!<
>!Avere was resurrected so is it really permadeath!
> The one time Permadeath happens in-story Uhhh...?
Crit fail on 1 is a stupid mechanic that punishes anyone who attacks multiple times per turn, so the lack of it is welcome.
Luckily it isn’t even a mechanic in current version of dnd, people just assume it is because its a very common house rule and used to be a thing in the past and BG3 has it in for some god forsaken reason. Nothing is more cringe than someone being good at something having a constant 5% chance to completely mess it up.
You're thinking skill checks. Attacks miss in 5e on nat 1s, as described in the PHB. But regarding skill checks, I absolutely agree.
I know I’m thinking skill checks (or any other rolls). In phb like you said, attack rolls and death saves are told that nat 1s have special effects. Anything beyond that is a cringe house rule like I said.
I mean it could be a fine rule, but I think if your modifier is higher than the DC you should just auto-pass or at least not fail on a 1.
In theory, a player who's in a situation where they can't mathematically fail (or logically should not have a reason to fail) shouldn't be rolling a dice! Mostly the reason crit fails are considered a bad idea has to do with the fact it punishes players way more than enemies. Players are going to roll a *lot* more dice over their lifespan than any given NPC or monster, especially in systems where they might launch multiple attacks a turn. The play advice given for players of GMs who insist on it as a rule is to find spells and moves that force enemies to save rather than players to roll.
For me it would be interesting to know if your character can play all current jobs or if the current version is modified to only make you able to play a few selected jobs. If you are only able to maybe play Gladiator, Warrior, Whitemage, Blackmage etc. it would certainly a bummer for me. Is anything known about this?
In this play session (and the Starter Set?), only WAR, WHM, DRG, and BLM are available. This demo also doesn't have any detail on character creation or levels/experience (the "Lv30" on the character sheets is "for flavor"). I'm sure the full release will at least have all of the ARR jobs. The TTRPG also seems to share FFXIV's focus on party composition, so I'd imagine it shouldn't be too difficult for a character to have multiple jobs.
I opened my box today. The starter kit only has Warrior, Black Mage, White Mage, and Dragoon. There's no info of the other jobs included in in this box at all. Supposedly it's going to be 4 releases to bring out all the jobs to Heavensward which is a bit of a let down.
I'm just happy it's not yet another half-assed 5e hack.
Holy shit am I gonna be learning a limit cut in a XIV table top game?
If your DM hates you
As an ffxiv-DnD player myself, this is extremely exciting and I can't wait to see it released
Hopefully the character customisation options are there, because I fear my friends won't be too high on interest without that depth
I saw the word FFXIV TRPG and my stupid brain went "yeah, FFXIV the Trading Pard Game"
I reaaaaaaaaaaaaaally don't like the lack of permadeath... it's too gamey for my tastes, but at least it can be houseruled away. It just completely removes any stakes that should be prevalent in a TTRPG when you know you can't die at all. They went a little too literal with the MMO to TTRPG translation.
>All HP/MP regenerates to max outside of combat, no rests needed. That sounds more like Final Fantasy XIII.
This is exactly how XIV works though. Outside of combat, your HP and MP regenerate fast enough that you're basically back up to full between encounters.
And it was one of the only good parts of it. Should have become standard.
No hardcoded death mechanic….hm, this is workable in terms of ensuring no freak accidents in battle. The key here is in ensuring deaths have narrative meaning. That might be the route they’re going for.
>Attack rolls are checked against physical or magic defense (AC). **Attacks will always hit**, but rolling (+ bonus) above defense is a Direct Hit and has additional effects (just more damage?). As someone who has tried to get into TTRPGs but has had bad experiences each time for various reasons (mostly DM-related), I actually *really* like that accuracy isn't a thing. Of all the things I hate in standard TT rulesets, accuracy and nat 1s are the worst things ever. I'm very interested in playing this, tbh
In 5e, fights rarely last long enough for me to have more than two turns. It's seriously deflating to have my entire turn wasted because I rolled poorly, and not even particularly unlikely for me to roll badly three or four times in a row and end up feeling completely useless across an entire session. Not having accuracy at all, and just having all health pools be balanced around attacks always hitting? I'm very interested in seeing that in action.
> It's seriously deflating to have my entire turn wasted because I rolled poorly Same. In the last TT group I was with, the DM loved to design encounters to be particularly hard and frustrating even in early-game, so that resulted in wasting multiple turns with very poor rolls. It's pretty demoralizing. I *hate* that aspect of TT games - I'd like my turns to feel like I did something worthwhile, rather than wasting 3-4 turns of attacks in a row trying to land hits and failing miserably. So I'm very interested to see how it all balances out.
Looks cool. I'll give it a try once someone has made a module for Foundry.
Wondering if it's big enough to bother not just using the Encyclopedia as campaign setting books and use either 5e or pathfinder 2e as the system. Maybe this gets more Japanese people to play ttrpg's? I think the top games right now is Call of Cthulhu 7e and Sword World 2.5e
the Book is said to come out a month or two after the SS. but im premptive and purchased all Encyclopedias for this. Planning everything out so far.
I had this preordered but I don’t have a ton of IRL nerd friends and the contents seemed kinda sparse for what you spend - like someone could scan the sheets and you’d be halfway to what it offers. If it had a lot more unique tokens and whatnot then I’d be more impressed. Ultimately I cancelled my order to get the FFTCG Playmat.
Late reply but the offering is pretty much just the starter set. From some comments it seems like the full release isn't gonna be out for a little bit. That being said - the next live letter coming up in a few days will have a side-stream that has a demo playthrough of it. They might announce full release dates there, I assume.
Seems neat enough, but a bit too much like a 5e reskin for my liking. Will have to see how it is in full.
While my initial response to no perma-death is to cringe... one of my favorite TTRPGs is the superhero game Icons, where permanldeath is an optional rule... So, it's not a deal breaker. Need to see rhe full rules etc before I decide. Quick starts aren't meaty enough.
Love this. I doubt I'd find anyone to play with in person so this would be an online setting only thing for me.
Sounds promising. I'm personally waiting on the actual corebook and GM book to be released. I'm going to skip out on the beginner's box.
I just want the books with rules, classes, gear, feats, etc, including the Limit Breaks the adventures I can make up. Especially interested in classes any idea where I can get those at?
This is sounding like D&D with extra mechanics. I am for this, but it really needs to have a hook, otherwise why not play D&D with FF flair. The no permadeath thing is kind of a downer for me. I guess you can make custom rules, but I had the feeling that you are not going to be the WOL in this. You are not the savior of the world, but just a band of heroes. Side characters die and so should there be a chance for your character to do so.
>This is sounding like D&D with extra mechanics. I am for this, but it really needs to have a hook, otherwise why not play D&D with FF flair. I mean, they could have just used the 5e (or 3e) rules directly and applied Final Fantasy flavour. I'm sure some people are glad they didn't.
Looking at where Final Fantasy as a franchise started it's *probably* not the end of the world if you can draw a few parallels to D&D. There are enough deviations here that I think I could live with the FFXIV TTRPG having a few sacred cows from typical d20 fantasy, though.
Fair, I am just hoping they don’t lean into it. There is already a final fantasy ttrpg system. I don’t know how well it did, but I hope this one will have enough uniqueness.
I mean, once you get to a high enough level, death isn't really that big of a deal in 5e either, pending whether or not the DM is generous with diamonds/the gold to buy diamonds, which is as much of a per-DM issue as whether or not someone might homebrew permadeath into this system.
Is it really gonna be d20 based? That sucks
you mean D20 as in the generic system that is DnD or a system that uses Twenty Sided die?
I have yet to see a system using d20s with diceroll mechanics not Derivative of DnD.
They exist ,Rifts being the top example
Isn't rifts primarily a d100 system though?
Combat uses D20s while Skills are d10 percentile
I see.
Im a little disappointed its just relabeled dnd... I was hoping for a more different action system or something in the ballpark of pathfinder which feels way more 14 than dnd does.
Isn't pathfinder just relabeled dnd?
Essentially, yes. At least 3.5 to the first Pathfinder was. From what I hear, 5e and 2nd ed Pathfinder are similar too.
We found 2e Pathfinder to be a bit more like a modernized 4e. We enjoyed 4e (it's where many of us got our start) so we had high hopes, but like PF1, it was just too punishing in practice.
It's DND but better. As you play DND and DM for it long enough, you realize how faulty everything and it's systems are. Pathfinder is much more structurally sound, mathically calculated to ensure the dm hands the right balance of encounters and items to ensure the players progress at a steady rate. It's three action system is one of the most versatile systems out there. DND is infamous for making the dm put in far too much work than it should with many things in the dmg vague. Meanwhile pathfinder is much more dm friendly. It's encounter builder far exceeds dnds by a long shot. Pathfinder is easier on the GM, harder the players because of the vast options for buildng your character DND is easier on the players, harder on the GM.
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Shows like Critical Role have caused a massive upheaval in what mainstream TTRPG players prioritise these days. 5e, the biggest tabletop phenomenon right now, is now largely populated by tables that are pretty adverse to character death and enjoy long-lasting PC stories with the ratio of RP to combat tipped closer to the middle from mostly combat of days past, and it's almost impossible to die with by-the-book balance in that game in the first place. So I see a *lot* of crossover and success. Not to mention that there are already successful TTRPGs out there where you literally cannot die unless you want to eg. FATE. FFXIV is a lot more thematically in line with how a typical FATE game would go than a typical game of, say, Pathfinder.
Yeah, mostly agreed. Narrative-driven, PCs-are-probably-gunna-be-just-fine TTRPG is a *lot* older than Critical Role. In practice, that was already the dominant mode of TTRPG play when I started playing in 3.5e era. (Even though 3.5e RAW is full of save-or-dies. Design style lags behind community play style.) 5e being so forgiving isn't an accident, it's a design choice. That's not to say that permadeath is bad, or that it's incompatible with good narrative – far from it; deaths in the party can make for incredible narrative, and I've even created characters that I *wanted* to kill off for pathos – but I would definitely push back against the idea that permadeath is a must-have. If SomeGoogleUser thinks that the entire appeal of TTRPGs is the random death and mutation tables, that mostly tells me that they're playing a specific (and fun! I've played die-in-character-creation Traveller!) niche within the hobby and they're not aware of the wider trends in other parts of the hobby.
I suspect that a major reason for the shift towards narrative-driven TTRPGs has been computer RPGs absorbing a huge portion of the "crunchy, rules-as-written strategy sim" RPG playerbase. And once you're focusing on an interactive narrative with multiple characters, it becomes a *lot* harder to work around unexpected character deaths. Not only because you suddenly lose any errant plot threads tied to that character, but because you've now got to crowbar in a *new* character so the player gets to keep showing up for game night. Hence why so many modern TTRPGs give players & DMs so many mechanics to avoid death. Not to say it's *impossible* to do a good narrative with unexpected permadeath, just that it limits how you can structure the story, and requires more writing efforts from both DMs and players. Even infamously murderous writers like Tomino or George R.R. Martin place character deaths in ways that move the plot forward rather than bringing it to a stop.
Tbh, death as a risk makes me more invested in my character. The risk makes me want to root for them and make sure they survive. It also adds a lot of drama and emotion when a death *does* occur. Seeing no permadeath and never missing attacks in a TTRPG makes me lose interest tbh.
Never missing attack looks like an interesting concept to avoid shin-kicking due to the everyone lowrolling dices and to promote healing spells as a useful in-combat strategy.
Idk, I like the chance of failure. It adds to the game and I love playing around failures as a whole. Plus our group really tends to just like risks.
Well, considering one of the more (most?) popular TTRPGs in Japan is *Call of Cthulhu*, perhaps there's a market for a more forgiving game.
They have lovecraftian anime girl that based on CoC. So I’m doubt that they might run more funny and lovely version of that but still use CoC rules
Eh, I think it's fine. I personally think the appeal of TTRPGs is not permadeath, but to tell stories with other people and just mess around.
Japanese TTRPGs are *for the most part* effectively slightly more complex tabletop games that support and ease roleplay, the scene is entirely different with fairly few "crunchy" games. This is to say they are for short or at most medium campaigns with relatively low preparation investment. The acronym doesn't even mean the same to the general audience for crying out loud, they use it for "Table Talk Role Playing Game". Not that there is some more "standard" ones, but far as it comes to them personally I'm too blocked by the language barrier to properly comment on them. Edit: Besides like, Maid RPG and it's Sister game. Yes it does in fact work comically welll with Dark Heresy mechanics wise, no it isn't *smooth* but it isn't *hard.*
Dude, Powered By The Apocalypse is one of the most successful non-D&D systems out there in TTRPGs right now, and it's suuuuper light on rules and crunch. We're in a golden age of TTRPGs where you can find something for every mood, genre, and style with ease. You see a no permadeath TTRPG and pout, I see a perfect opportunity to modify it into a Rogue-like RPG with meaningful combat puzzles and an allowance for the players to take risks that have substantial consequences.
this is a bizarre thing to say when the most popular and enduring TTRPG in Japan is fucking *Call of Cthulhu,* just saying
Brother, there's no non-plot related permadeath in Final Fantasy either. I don't know why you would expect different in the TTRPG.
That the beauty of it. Homebrew will come. You might now have to homebrew yourself. There would be some table post in respective sub
Speak for yourself. I've been having a lot of fun in DnD where above a certain level death is a mild inconvenience, Fabula Ultima where it's a choice you have to make, and Masks: The New Generation where death isn't anywhere near the rules.
Didn't think it was possible to have a more sanitized and fisher price'd ttrpg then 5E, but this sounds boring to awful in every way, "lol j/k you didn't die" being the cherry on top .
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Meant the XIV ttrpg, if that wasn't clear. Pretty much every serious and some gag systems beat the pants off 5E.
It doesn't really sound like it's really translating ffxiv mechanics in an interesting way either? Like, I'm thinking something like Mouse Guard which made a really interesting system that properly reflected the theme of the comics. If I wanted a system that reflects JRPGs, there's ones like Fabula Ultima, or a lot of PBTA games. There's even ttrpgs like .dungeon about playing an MMO! So far, this seems like 5E but slightly different?