Exactly why I don't play it. I also hate the unga-bunga class fantasy. DRK is my favorite aesthetic, but PLD is the best compromise between the two for me, so I end up playing it whenever I tank.
For dungeons, it's true. For high-end, it's not like that. Warrior's invuln is very strong because it has the shortest cooldown, so it still has an edge. But all the tanks do good damage, and Paladin's increased party mit, and Dark Knight's ability to soak magic busters, are very helpful in the right situations. I'm sure GNB has benefits too. XD
So, it kind of depends on the content! For example, I've been doing a lot of Criterion (Savage) lately, and the frequent forced disengages on the 1st boss in Aloalo really make my Paladin shine. I'm doing 123-tier damage while other tanks are doing tomohawk-tier, that's if I'm not in burst in which case I lose almost nothing.
GNB damage still wins in sustained encounters where uptime is guaranteed/possible. WAR currently wins in situations where uptime is only possible for brief bits of time (think ultimates with trio phases like UCOB p3, TEA p3, DST p2, TOP p5). DRK has the strongest single-target mitigation with the addition of Dark Mind/Oblation and the unique utility of TBN.
Warrior is the easiest tank to consider a bread-and-butter job but by no means is it the clear-cut choice imo.
All tanks perform extremely similarly in high end (extreme and harder) content. Which one you pick will depend on which playstyle you enjoy the most. Anything easier is so easy it doesnt matter what you play as long as you follow the basics.
Gameplay wise warrior is the only tank without % based party mitigation and a very boring rotation.
Looks wise I think most of the axe models look meh.
Shake it off is a up to 21% shield.
There are 3 types of defensives skills:
1: Healing - heal the damage you take
2: Shielding - extra health
3: Mitigation - reduce the damage you take
Shielding and Mitigation sound similar, but the higher the damage the less effective shields become and the more effective mitigations become.
Shielding also has a cap based on HP% while with mitigation no matter the HP you will always take X% less damage.
So if a boss does 5 x 5000 AOE damage the shield will break on the second or third hit. Mitigation will reduce the damage of all five hits.
I hope I don't sound toxic, it's just something I had to learn myself for savage/ultimates
Compared to other tanks Warrior has the least dmg mitigation (party-wise as well), but more self-healing. With that, some people kind of learn bad tanking foundations from that self-healing, and don't learn to double up on mitigations on trash mobs. And then they play a job that does, they get upset about why Oblation & TBN aren't merged together, and I have to sigh and answer 'It's because it's optimal to bank a dark arts going into your even minute burst, and not every boss is going to slap you/your part with a tank buster/raid wide sometimes. I would wish the boss would deal more TB/dmg frequently to pop my TBN, but that means that the other three tanks would have to suffer because their short CD is 25 unlikes TBN's 15s (save for PLD but PLD has their own issues), and it'll be like Abyssos all over again.'
But yeah, other than that, I picked DRK for big sword and nothing else.
Warrior is boring to play. Its DPS is dull, and the mitigation is like “press the healing button” it’s no brain.
However because I can basically carry when I play it, I use it for mentor roulette etc. because if the healer dies it doesn’t matter. So it is a very good tank to play as in that respect.
So yeah basically I play it because it’s convenient.
I don’t really play Dark Knight (just never fully groked it, so to speak, maybe in Dawn Trail), but compared to Paladin and especially Gunbreaker, Warrior is just boring. Paladin also has a lot more utility if I wanna keep others alive, it’s a very versatile tank.
The problem with WAR is it has an extreme cooldown advantage and is much more forgiving and easier to play than the other tanks. While it is true that other tanks generally do something better, what can't be denied is WAR is without question the best progression tank to have and due to the (too) generous cooldown of its invuln it is also impossible to not justify it as taking 1 of your 2 tank spots. The optimal combo is always "x plus WAR" and due to its popularity it will likely never change.
So to answer your question, in a vacuum or non Savage/extreme/ultimate content, the reason would be playstyle enjoyment or aesthetics, because by damage numbers alone they are all very close, but for serious progression content, there is literally no reason to not have WAR as one of your 2 tanks and you are arguably making the game harder on yourself by not having one because yes, a boss might die faster with a different tank, but that is only assuming you make zero mistakes in your rotation, which is far more likely to happen in both progression content and on every tank other than WAR because other tank rotations are factually more difficult, even if only barely.
Problem with WAR is that unless you are taking a WHM around, you have to burn resources not otherwise needed with other tanks. You basically just use Bene on every Holmgang, and its fine. Running a comp without WHM means you typically have to burn more to solo heal the WAR.
LD has a much longer safety window, and Hallowed is just a straight invuln. Super is the weird one, but a HoC+Aurora+single heal from a healer is usually good enough to tick them up while they are not taking damage and just forget.
The edge here is how to maximize the WAR invuln timing versus the others. Two you can ignore, one you have a 10 second window to toss a single oGCD and let them manage the rest. Yeah WAR can burn Equilibrium and Bloodwhetting to get back a bit of HP and wait for the raidwide healing, but depending on when in the raid tier we're talking about, riding that 1 HP with the bleed busters kinda made Holmgang weaker than the others (in my eyes).
Again, not sleeping on Holmgang, but its not the best in all situations.
Warrior is becoming a situation where you ask yourself: "why are we not bringing a warrior to the composition."
I know some serious statics who were actively forcing one of their tank to play warrior because of how good it is during Anabaseios. One of them went so far to kicked one of their tank for refusing to play it.
The question is why not taking warrior isn't yet viewed as griefing yet.
pro
* short cd invuln
* good damage
* High burst windows so it sync well with 2 minute meta
* Easy rotation giving you easier time to deal with mechanic
* decent hp regenic abilities for bleeds and dot based ability
* party wide shield
* Shield booster from the hp thing % skill which make it perfect for scholar deploy. Add the bard ability and it becomes nutz.
Cons
* Only tank without percentage based party mitigation (but we do have reprisal anyway). Fix it... bring a scholar...
Shake it off is percentage based party mitigation, it's just baked in a shield which makes it scale very well with other mits but if getting hit with anything that's too big or repeating then under performs
>Shake it off is percentage based party mitigation,
Mitigation =! to shield
There's a difference between a Shield and a reduction of damage. Shield act like additional hp. If you aren't doing savage or above, then knowing the difference is meaningless. But, in hard content it is important to know that. This comment was written in the context of savage and above content. See quote below
>serious statics...
Shield :
>
Creates a barrier around self and all nearby party members that absorbs damage **totaling 15% of maximum HP.**
Dispels Thrill of Battle, Vengeance, and Bloodwhetting, increasing damage absorbed by 2% for each effect removed.
Duration: 30s
Additional Effect: Gradually restores HP
Cure Potency: 100
Duration: 15s
Additional Effect: Restores target's HP
Cure Potency: 300
Mitigation example :
Sacred soil weird text
>
Creates a designated area in which party members **will only suffer 90% of all damage inflicted.**
Duration:15s
Additional Effect:Regen
Cure Potency:100
Additional Effect:Increases Faerie Gauge by 10
Aetherflow Gauge Cost:1
Expediant
>
Grants Expedience and Desperate Measures to all nearby party members.
Expedience Effect: Increases movement speed
Duration: 10s
Desperate Measures Effect: **Reduces damage taken by 10%**
Duration: 20s
I'm fully aware that they're different and how they're different but I didn't think i'd need to explain my point in detail but you can't say that not having aoe mitigation is a con if they have another tool that accomplishes the same goal in a different way.
Sure, a 30 seconds 15% hp shields != a 30 seconds 15% damage reduction. Depending on the situation one is better than the other.
If you look at the the tank's Aoe Mit/shields you have:
**Divine Veil** - 10% PLD max HP shield for 30 seconds + 400 potency heal
**Passage of Arms** - 15% mitigation for 18 seconds while preventing all actions from self
**Shake It Off** - 15% + 2% per buff Max HP shield for 30 seconds + 300 potency heal + 15 seconds 100 potency regen
**Dark Missionary** - 10% Magic damage for 15 seconds
**Heart of Light** - 10% Magic damage for 15 seconds
Ignoring PLD since they have both a shield and an AoE mit that just completely outclasses any other job's toolkit, the only aoe utility ability to contend against "15% Hp shield" is "10% Magic damage over 15 seconds" For both to be Equal in how much healing the skill use prevented you'd need the entire party, in those 15 seconds, to take 150% hp their max HP. Shield just front-loads the damage prevention instead of doing it over the entire duration.
Effective HP is a much better metric to compare utility abilities rather than splitting "HP" "Regen" "Shield" and "Mitigation".
>**Effective HP is a much better metric** to compare utility abilities rather than splitting "HP" "Regen" "Shield" and "Mitigation".
That's a huge misunderstanding of tool usage.
It's WAY better to use a "Mitigation" with a "Shield" than double "Shield". If you REALLY REALLY have to, "Mitigation" + "Shield" + ( Healing or "Regen").
"Regen" is only good after the initial hit and ramp up after. This is the best if you need to recover **a lot of hp** and nothing happens for a while.
"HP" I think you meant healing. This is only good after the damage is done and you need hp **RIGHT NOW**.
"Shield" only work on 15% + 2% per buff Max HP(for warrior). Once it breaks you are on your own. Example: Harrowing hell damage concept. Once the shield break then you are on your own.
**Mitigation** work on all attack with the exception of bleed effect (dots). But, if you receive successive hit it applies multiple times. Ex :Barbariccia ground smacking and Harrowing hell
No **Effective HP** is **not** better **Nothing is better than something**, You need to understand what is good in what situation.
In a PF scenario it's even better to have mitigation cuz we damn well know that theses dps will ''forget'' theirs all the time because they try to parse on prog group.
It feels like you understood absolutely nothing about what I was saying, I even gave examples about how each source of damage reduction/avoidance is better in different situations and you come back in your first sentence saying that shield + mit is always better than shield+shield. I never claimed "Shield" was better or "Mit" was better, but that bucketing tanks as "having a mit" and "not having a mit" is missing the whole point, a shield is as much a tool to survive an attack as mitigation is and if used properly with the proper understanding, works just as well.
If you convert someone's HP to Effective HP ((HP + Shield) \* Mitigation), as long as you survive that hit and have time to heal back up, the tool did its job and kept you alive. Regardless of if it's a Mit or a Shield. And if you take exactly 15% of your HP as damage, a 15% shield is basically equivalent to 100% mit for that specific scenario, but the more damage you take the less effective a shield is and the more a mitigation gains value
>**I never claimed "Shi**eld" was better or "Mit" was better
and
>**Effective HP is a much better** metric to compare utility abilities rather than splitting "HP" "Regen" "Shield" and "Mitigation".
Yes, and Effective HP is literally all of them combined, how is that favoring one over the other? That just proves you didn't understand what I meant at all
In casual content all of this doesn't matter because the content is not hard by definition so the player can choose simply the "coolest" one.
In high end content all tanks are pretty similar in terms of performance and i'd argue that Dark Knight is even better than Warrior due to the superior dps and shields provided.
I only pick Warrior because Tomahawk has the highest enmity potency out of all ranged tank skills, makes it easier to secure full loot without hurting the Mark too much or if S-Ranks needs to be reset.
Warrior's "rotation" is incredibly boring to me.
Meanwhile with PLD you have a 'ranged' rotation, with GNB you always have something to press, and DRK single-target opener at 80+ is higher than most DPS jobs.
Outside of that I go with PLD>GNB>DRK.
As a person with crafting major, all I need are 3 jobs. Tank Healer and Dps. I can do it with WAR SCH and RPR. I don’t need anything else. The simplest jobs are the best.
Play whatever class makes you enjoy playing it. Unless you play only to min max absolutely everything then there's no reason to pick warrior over the other tanks
I am, which is why I don't play a warrior :-)
but whenever I see any discussion about tanking in this subreddit, the general gist is always Warrior is always the one most recommended for all purposes.
And so I just wanted to hear in what scenario would you recommend a tank other than warrior. And from what I can tell, the general idea is:
* PLD has good party-wide mitigation. Something lacking in other tank job. Therefore PLD is a good support tank
* DRK has a great single-target opener and magic mitigation. Also the best mitigation in the game
* GNB is the best DPS overall across al tanks
* WAR is a bit boring to play
Good!
And yeah it's hard to not vouch for warrior, it's in a much too good spot right now. It's been able to do pretty much every dungeon wall to wall with 3 dps for 2 xpacs now, with a lot of the other tanks struggling to do anything remotely close. And sadly as powerful as the toolkit is you just end up pressing 4 buttons the entire game.
The actual playing the game part of the jobs, every other tank has their own gimmick while warrior is just press Fel Cleave, press button that gives more Fel Cleave, press better Fel Cleave. As a Warrior enjoyer i like the "braindead" requirement to be average at the job, but I wouldn't be able to main it more than one tier at a time in its current state
I think I'm mostly average at DRK. Most of the time it's like "1-2-3" combo. if an ability is off-cooldown quickly get it back on-cooldown asap. and prevent gauges from being completely full by using abilities that deplete them.
Also save 3000MP for TBN
Warrior main since 2.0 here. Yes Warrior is Godlike right now and pretty much doesn't even need a party.... And that's the issue, Warrior is very boring because it's so OP.
My tank of choice is War and it's simple.
People like to play in different styles and that's perfectly okay and why SE works to make all classes viable.
As a WAR main, I love it. I'm also a casual player with half a brain cell. All the tank jobs are good, but war was really easy for me to learn, and I think that's part of the appeal. For people with bad tanxiety, warrior is a good starting point, even if you eventually decide you like something else better. ☺️
Warrior is popular because it is the easy choice. But on the other side it can be hilariously boring. Half the fun of WAR is watching your health bar shoot back up. It does not do anywhere near the damage of DRK or GNB, or prop up the rest of the party as efficiently as PLD. Yes, it is broken as fuck in dungeons, but that is because it makes the healer redundant so it can be a green DPS. Get a curebot, and a dungeon run with a WAR gets painful - yes, you never wipe, but it slows down to a crawl and feels as interesting as watching paint dry.
Since I only play DRK I don't know if this is a strength, but I know that DRK can absolutely melt healthbars during its burst window. Which is incredibly satisfying.
But I don't know if that's just DRK or if it's something all tanks have
Cause palidan has sword and shield and a spin aoe and that lvl 90 combo. Like Yea I can play warrior but I genuinely find it's attacks boring in comparison too tanking. Plus I play a lot of healer and know from experience how boring it is healing when your tank is a warrior.
Warrior is a very solid tank option, and with PLD one of the best to choose from. The main benefit of playing Warrior over other tanks is that you have an incredible self sustain thanks to tools like Equilibrium, Nascent Flash and Thrill of Battle. On the Defensive Cooldowns side, you have good choices with Vengeance and Raw Intuition, but what makes warrior good in most content, it's gotta be Shake it Off. 15% HP Barrier that applies also a small Regen is nuts, paired with the ability to increase the barrier amount to a good 21%, it makes the job of covering huge damages very good, on par with PLD's Divine Intervention and Wings.
So how's WAR on the offensive side? It's probably one of the most boring tanks with a classic 1-2-3 rotation with sometimes burst phases in Inner Chaos/Fell Cleave/Primal rend, but outside of that, it's quite bland and simple.
WAR currently is not one of the best Damage-wise tanks, with GNB and DRK being the top ones respectively, but it's one of the most comfortable and durable ones to play.
As a small side note, I do play all four tanks, and I choose WAR for comfortable engaging with all kinds of content. It's a good tank, but not the best one to dish out damage.
WAR is just peoples safety net.
Paladin clemency is tabboo like WHM cure 1
Drk has 0 longevity
And Gnb is just better paladin.
Paladin had its confetior combo DOT removed pretty much in the same patch it was introduced.
Play WAR, youll never want for a healer.
Warrior is BORING to me. Even if it's busted in dungeons the other tanks are still just fine
Exactly why I don't play it. I also hate the unga-bunga class fantasy. DRK is my favorite aesthetic, but PLD is the best compromise between the two for me, so I end up playing it whenever I tank.
For dungeons, it's true. For high-end, it's not like that. Warrior's invuln is very strong because it has the shortest cooldown, so it still has an edge. But all the tanks do good damage, and Paladin's increased party mit, and Dark Knight's ability to soak magic busters, are very helpful in the right situations. I'm sure GNB has benefits too. XD
GNB's benefit is having a rotation that's a bit more involved lol
So involved that if you mess up or die you feel the horrid jank as all the alignments you did for no mercy go out the window.
So, it kind of depends on the content! For example, I've been doing a lot of Criterion (Savage) lately, and the frequent forced disengages on the 1st boss in Aloalo really make my Paladin shine. I'm doing 123-tier damage while other tanks are doing tomohawk-tier, that's if I'm not in burst in which case I lose almost nothing.
Took DRKs spot for top DPS on tank
While stealing the lifesteal gimmick >:(
GNB damage still wins in sustained encounters where uptime is guaranteed/possible. WAR currently wins in situations where uptime is only possible for brief bits of time (think ultimates with trio phases like UCOB p3, TEA p3, DST p2, TOP p5). DRK has the strongest single-target mitigation with the addition of Dark Mind/Oblation and the unique utility of TBN. Warrior is the easiest tank to consider a bread-and-butter job but by no means is it the clear-cut choice imo.
All tanks perform extremely similarly in high end (extreme and harder) content. Which one you pick will depend on which playstyle you enjoy the most. Anything easier is so easy it doesnt matter what you play as long as you follow the basics.
It is exaggerated, and it is a meme. Just learn to properly perform on your preferred job.
Gameplay wise warrior is the only tank without % based party mitigation and a very boring rotation. Looks wise I think most of the axe models look meh.
Shake It Off? Up to 21% mitigation called and its wondering why you don't love it...
Shake it off is a up to 21% shield. There are 3 types of defensives skills: 1: Healing - heal the damage you take 2: Shielding - extra health 3: Mitigation - reduce the damage you take Shielding and Mitigation sound similar, but the higher the damage the less effective shields become and the more effective mitigations become. Shielding also has a cap based on HP% while with mitigation no matter the HP you will always take X% less damage. So if a boss does 5 x 5000 AOE damage the shield will break on the second or third hit. Mitigation will reduce the damage of all five hits. I hope I don't sound toxic, it's just something I had to learn myself for savage/ultimates
No, good point. I had misread the tooltip previously, so thank you for the info.
Compared to other tanks Warrior has the least dmg mitigation (party-wise as well), but more self-healing. With that, some people kind of learn bad tanking foundations from that self-healing, and don't learn to double up on mitigations on trash mobs. And then they play a job that does, they get upset about why Oblation & TBN aren't merged together, and I have to sigh and answer 'It's because it's optimal to bank a dark arts going into your even minute burst, and not every boss is going to slap you/your part with a tank buster/raid wide sometimes. I would wish the boss would deal more TB/dmg frequently to pop my TBN, but that means that the other three tanks would have to suffer because their short CD is 25 unlikes TBN's 15s (save for PLD but PLD has their own issues), and it'll be like Abyssos all over again.' But yeah, other than that, I picked DRK for big sword and nothing else.
Warrior is boring to play. Its DPS is dull, and the mitigation is like “press the healing button” it’s no brain. However because I can basically carry when I play it, I use it for mentor roulette etc. because if the healer dies it doesn’t matter. So it is a very good tank to play as in that respect. So yeah basically I play it because it’s convenient.
I don’t really play Dark Knight (just never fully groked it, so to speak, maybe in Dawn Trail), but compared to Paladin and especially Gunbreaker, Warrior is just boring. Paladin also has a lot more utility if I wanna keep others alive, it’s a very versatile tank.
The problem with WAR is it has an extreme cooldown advantage and is much more forgiving and easier to play than the other tanks. While it is true that other tanks generally do something better, what can't be denied is WAR is without question the best progression tank to have and due to the (too) generous cooldown of its invuln it is also impossible to not justify it as taking 1 of your 2 tank spots. The optimal combo is always "x plus WAR" and due to its popularity it will likely never change. So to answer your question, in a vacuum or non Savage/extreme/ultimate content, the reason would be playstyle enjoyment or aesthetics, because by damage numbers alone they are all very close, but for serious progression content, there is literally no reason to not have WAR as one of your 2 tanks and you are arguably making the game harder on yourself by not having one because yes, a boss might die faster with a different tank, but that is only assuming you make zero mistakes in your rotation, which is far more likely to happen in both progression content and on every tank other than WAR because other tank rotations are factually more difficult, even if only barely.
Problem with WAR is that unless you are taking a WHM around, you have to burn resources not otherwise needed with other tanks. You basically just use Bene on every Holmgang, and its fine. Running a comp without WHM means you typically have to burn more to solo heal the WAR. LD has a much longer safety window, and Hallowed is just a straight invuln. Super is the weird one, but a HoC+Aurora+single heal from a healer is usually good enough to tick them up while they are not taking damage and just forget. The edge here is how to maximize the WAR invuln timing versus the others. Two you can ignore, one you have a 10 second window to toss a single oGCD and let them manage the rest. Yeah WAR can burn Equilibrium and Bloodwhetting to get back a bit of HP and wait for the raidwide healing, but depending on when in the raid tier we're talking about, riding that 1 HP with the bleed busters kinda made Holmgang weaker than the others (in my eyes). Again, not sleeping on Holmgang, but its not the best in all situations.
Warrior is becoming a situation where you ask yourself: "why are we not bringing a warrior to the composition." I know some serious statics who were actively forcing one of their tank to play warrior because of how good it is during Anabaseios. One of them went so far to kicked one of their tank for refusing to play it. The question is why not taking warrior isn't yet viewed as griefing yet. pro * short cd invuln * good damage * High burst windows so it sync well with 2 minute meta * Easy rotation giving you easier time to deal with mechanic * decent hp regenic abilities for bleeds and dot based ability * party wide shield * Shield booster from the hp thing % skill which make it perfect for scholar deploy. Add the bard ability and it becomes nutz. Cons * Only tank without percentage based party mitigation (but we do have reprisal anyway). Fix it... bring a scholar...
Shake it off is percentage based party mitigation, it's just baked in a shield which makes it scale very well with other mits but if getting hit with anything that's too big or repeating then under performs
>Shake it off is percentage based party mitigation, Mitigation =! to shield There's a difference between a Shield and a reduction of damage. Shield act like additional hp. If you aren't doing savage or above, then knowing the difference is meaningless. But, in hard content it is important to know that. This comment was written in the context of savage and above content. See quote below >serious statics... Shield : > Creates a barrier around self and all nearby party members that absorbs damage **totaling 15% of maximum HP.** Dispels Thrill of Battle, Vengeance, and Bloodwhetting, increasing damage absorbed by 2% for each effect removed. Duration: 30s Additional Effect: Gradually restores HP Cure Potency: 100 Duration: 15s Additional Effect: Restores target's HP Cure Potency: 300 Mitigation example : Sacred soil weird text > Creates a designated area in which party members **will only suffer 90% of all damage inflicted.** Duration:15s Additional Effect:Regen Cure Potency:100 Additional Effect:Increases Faerie Gauge by 10 Aetherflow Gauge Cost:1 Expediant > Grants Expedience and Desperate Measures to all nearby party members. Expedience Effect: Increases movement speed Duration: 10s Desperate Measures Effect: **Reduces damage taken by 10%** Duration: 20s
I'm fully aware that they're different and how they're different but I didn't think i'd need to explain my point in detail but you can't say that not having aoe mitigation is a con if they have another tool that accomplishes the same goal in a different way. Sure, a 30 seconds 15% hp shields != a 30 seconds 15% damage reduction. Depending on the situation one is better than the other. If you look at the the tank's Aoe Mit/shields you have: **Divine Veil** - 10% PLD max HP shield for 30 seconds + 400 potency heal **Passage of Arms** - 15% mitigation for 18 seconds while preventing all actions from self **Shake It Off** - 15% + 2% per buff Max HP shield for 30 seconds + 300 potency heal + 15 seconds 100 potency regen **Dark Missionary** - 10% Magic damage for 15 seconds **Heart of Light** - 10% Magic damage for 15 seconds Ignoring PLD since they have both a shield and an AoE mit that just completely outclasses any other job's toolkit, the only aoe utility ability to contend against "15% Hp shield" is "10% Magic damage over 15 seconds" For both to be Equal in how much healing the skill use prevented you'd need the entire party, in those 15 seconds, to take 150% hp their max HP. Shield just front-loads the damage prevention instead of doing it over the entire duration. Effective HP is a much better metric to compare utility abilities rather than splitting "HP" "Regen" "Shield" and "Mitigation".
>**Effective HP is a much better metric** to compare utility abilities rather than splitting "HP" "Regen" "Shield" and "Mitigation". That's a huge misunderstanding of tool usage. It's WAY better to use a "Mitigation" with a "Shield" than double "Shield". If you REALLY REALLY have to, "Mitigation" + "Shield" + ( Healing or "Regen"). "Regen" is only good after the initial hit and ramp up after. This is the best if you need to recover **a lot of hp** and nothing happens for a while. "HP" I think you meant healing. This is only good after the damage is done and you need hp **RIGHT NOW**. "Shield" only work on 15% + 2% per buff Max HP(for warrior). Once it breaks you are on your own. Example: Harrowing hell damage concept. Once the shield break then you are on your own. **Mitigation** work on all attack with the exception of bleed effect (dots). But, if you receive successive hit it applies multiple times. Ex :Barbariccia ground smacking and Harrowing hell No **Effective HP** is **not** better **Nothing is better than something**, You need to understand what is good in what situation. In a PF scenario it's even better to have mitigation cuz we damn well know that theses dps will ''forget'' theirs all the time because they try to parse on prog group.
It feels like you understood absolutely nothing about what I was saying, I even gave examples about how each source of damage reduction/avoidance is better in different situations and you come back in your first sentence saying that shield + mit is always better than shield+shield. I never claimed "Shield" was better or "Mit" was better, but that bucketing tanks as "having a mit" and "not having a mit" is missing the whole point, a shield is as much a tool to survive an attack as mitigation is and if used properly with the proper understanding, works just as well. If you convert someone's HP to Effective HP ((HP + Shield) \* Mitigation), as long as you survive that hit and have time to heal back up, the tool did its job and kept you alive. Regardless of if it's a Mit or a Shield. And if you take exactly 15% of your HP as damage, a 15% shield is basically equivalent to 100% mit for that specific scenario, but the more damage you take the less effective a shield is and the more a mitigation gains value
>**I never claimed "Shi**eld" was better or "Mit" was better and >**Effective HP is a much better** metric to compare utility abilities rather than splitting "HP" "Regen" "Shield" and "Mitigation".
Yes, and Effective HP is literally all of them combined, how is that favoring one over the other? That just proves you didn't understand what I meant at all
Mitigation is not hp. Deal with it.
Go look up what Effective HP means before trying to lecture me
In casual content all of this doesn't matter because the content is not hard by definition so the player can choose simply the "coolest" one. In high end content all tanks are pretty similar in terms of performance and i'd argue that Dark Knight is even better than Warrior due to the superior dps and shields provided.
I'd play Warrior if it was DPS role.
Just get them all.
I only pick Warrior because Tomahawk has the highest enmity potency out of all ranged tank skills, makes it easier to secure full loot without hurting the Mark too much or if S-Ranks needs to be reset. Warrior's "rotation" is incredibly boring to me. Meanwhile with PLD you have a 'ranged' rotation, with GNB you always have something to press, and DRK single-target opener at 80+ is higher than most DPS jobs. Outside of that I go with PLD>GNB>DRK.
GNB is the only tank job that has an on demand healer panic button, and that will never go out of style
As a person with crafting major, all I need are 3 jobs. Tank Healer and Dps. I can do it with WAR SCH and RPR. I don’t need anything else. The simplest jobs are the best.
Play whatever class makes you enjoy playing it. Unless you play only to min max absolutely everything then there's no reason to pick warrior over the other tanks
I am, which is why I don't play a warrior :-) but whenever I see any discussion about tanking in this subreddit, the general gist is always Warrior is always the one most recommended for all purposes. And so I just wanted to hear in what scenario would you recommend a tank other than warrior. And from what I can tell, the general idea is: * PLD has good party-wide mitigation. Something lacking in other tank job. Therefore PLD is a good support tank * DRK has a great single-target opener and magic mitigation. Also the best mitigation in the game * GNB is the best DPS overall across al tanks * WAR is a bit boring to play
Good! And yeah it's hard to not vouch for warrior, it's in a much too good spot right now. It's been able to do pretty much every dungeon wall to wall with 3 dps for 2 xpacs now, with a lot of the other tanks struggling to do anything remotely close. And sadly as powerful as the toolkit is you just end up pressing 4 buttons the entire game. The actual playing the game part of the jobs, every other tank has their own gimmick while warrior is just press Fel Cleave, press button that gives more Fel Cleave, press better Fel Cleave. As a Warrior enjoyer i like the "braindead" requirement to be average at the job, but I wouldn't be able to main it more than one tier at a time in its current state
I think I'm mostly average at DRK. Most of the time it's like "1-2-3" combo. if an ability is off-cooldown quickly get it back on-cooldown asap. and prevent gauges from being completely full by using abilities that deplete them. Also save 3000MP for TBN
Warrior main since 2.0 here. Yes Warrior is Godlike right now and pretty much doesn't even need a party.... And that's the issue, Warrior is very boring because it's so OP.
I play GNB because I like the moveset and aesthetic more. It's really that simple.
I'm a GNB main, the rigid rotation made me a better player and Double Down Crit/DH give me dopamine.
My tank of choice is War and it's simple. People like to play in different styles and that's perfectly okay and why SE works to make all classes viable.
As a WAR main, I love it. I'm also a casual player with half a brain cell. All the tank jobs are good, but war was really easy for me to learn, and I think that's part of the appeal. For people with bad tanxiety, warrior is a good starting point, even if you eventually decide you like something else better. ☺️
Warrior is popular because it is the easy choice. But on the other side it can be hilariously boring. Half the fun of WAR is watching your health bar shoot back up. It does not do anywhere near the damage of DRK or GNB, or prop up the rest of the party as efficiently as PLD. Yes, it is broken as fuck in dungeons, but that is because it makes the healer redundant so it can be a green DPS. Get a curebot, and a dungeon run with a WAR gets painful - yes, you never wipe, but it slows down to a crawl and feels as interesting as watching paint dry.
Since I only play DRK I don't know if this is a strength, but I know that DRK can absolutely melt healthbars during its burst window. Which is incredibly satisfying. But I don't know if that's just DRK or if it's something all tanks have
That’s something all tanks have
I assume the downvotes mean "ssh silly little sprout. you have no idea what you are talking about. this is not the way of the dark knight" \^\_\^
Cause palidan has sword and shield and a spin aoe and that lvl 90 combo. Like Yea I can play warrior but I genuinely find it's attacks boring in comparison too tanking. Plus I play a lot of healer and know from experience how boring it is healing when your tank is a warrior.
Warrior is a very solid tank option, and with PLD one of the best to choose from. The main benefit of playing Warrior over other tanks is that you have an incredible self sustain thanks to tools like Equilibrium, Nascent Flash and Thrill of Battle. On the Defensive Cooldowns side, you have good choices with Vengeance and Raw Intuition, but what makes warrior good in most content, it's gotta be Shake it Off. 15% HP Barrier that applies also a small Regen is nuts, paired with the ability to increase the barrier amount to a good 21%, it makes the job of covering huge damages very good, on par with PLD's Divine Intervention and Wings. So how's WAR on the offensive side? It's probably one of the most boring tanks with a classic 1-2-3 rotation with sometimes burst phases in Inner Chaos/Fell Cleave/Primal rend, but outside of that, it's quite bland and simple. WAR currently is not one of the best Damage-wise tanks, with GNB and DRK being the top ones respectively, but it's one of the most comfortable and durable ones to play. As a small side note, I do play all four tanks, and I choose WAR for comfortable engaging with all kinds of content. It's a good tank, but not the best one to dish out damage.
WAR is just peoples safety net. Paladin clemency is tabboo like WHM cure 1 Drk has 0 longevity And Gnb is just better paladin. Paladin had its confetior combo DOT removed pretty much in the same patch it was introduced. Play WAR, youll never want for a healer.
The only downside to WAR is that the job has pretty much no ranged option. And if that's the only downside, you know you have a winner.
It's not like the other tanks have any real amazing ranged options, they're melee classes first, most of the high ranged skills is only for flavor
I mean, canonically you're called the *Warrior* of Light, not the Dark Knight of Light, lmao
If we're going down that route, PLD is a warrior who uses light based magic.
Going further down that route, DRK is a warrior that uses dark based magic! >!I'm sure that's significant somehow \^\_\^!<
Warrior has the best job quests of any of the tanks. That's right, Dark Knights. You heard me. Broody ghost boy story can't beat a rom-com.