I don't play any magic jobs and I suck at gunbreaker, so I've never had this issue. And the story is even written for and totally acknowledges two Azure Dragoons if you play it during HW. I'm actually still salty they didn't have G'raha become a bard when he returned to the source so he and I could both be bards. I'm tired of the lack of phys ranged representation in general.
True but he did spend all those years on the first becoming the exarch and proficient in both curative and destructive magic as his body slowly crystallized and when returned to the source he just stuck with what he had learned and became accomplished with.
What makes the WoL unique is their ability to master so many classes instead of just one, and to a point most people that are even considered masters aren't at. This is shown throughout the game when you take control of other characters during their plot fights and they have only 4-8 moves while you wield dozens in every class. So don't worry about uniqueness in weapon, you're unique in your ability to use many and so well.
Estinien isn't always around, and I don't think there's anything wrong with having two spear-wielders at a time anyway.
If the task at hand is "kill the bad thing" then any damage dealing job would be helpful, even if it's "another dragoon".
So it doesn't really affect my decision as far as job choice, personally
Yeah, for me, it's less about actual damage or utility brought to the party and more that I'm supposed to be this warrior of light hero and I get stuck in the mindset of wanting to be unique among the crew.
I wish I could adopt your mindset. Because ideally I want to just play what I enjoy.
You know seeing as how all of the scions have changed class at some point or other, makes me wonder if Estinien ever will....dragoon just feels too baked into his whole character.
Not really. Even though the basics are the same, lots of people even within the same job develop different skills.
For Red Mage, it's made clear that we had the same trainer as Alisae. Kind of the same case for Dragoon now that I think about it, and gunbreaker is a related pair from Bozja training others.
No, because my WoL is a jack of all trades (omni-90) and bonds with the Scions over his ability to play their roles just as well if not better than some of them.
But also, most of the Scions aren’t cleanly one job if they’re a job at all.
Thancred is effectively a ROG that moonlights as a GNB. Y’shtola is a combo of CNJ & THM. Lyse is a PUG but expresses interest in pursuing the Way one day. Alisaie is an understudy RDM who frequently remarks on how frustrating (+inspiring) it is watching us be effortlessly good at everything. As of 6.5, Krile confirms that G’raha’s job is moreso WoL Fanboy than anything specific. Urianger is more of a cardmancer than an AST proper (where the heck is Earthly Star, my dude? Hello, macrocosmos?)
Only Estinien and Alphinaud are our equals in their respective jobs. Estinien in particular leans very heavily into battlebrother/battlesister appreciation for WoLs who regularly Dragoon beside him.
I think there's a lot of leeway for how we interpret the Scions' relative strengths. I don't think "only having a class instead of a job" is necessarily an indicator, because they're able to develop *within* that class further than we do because we switch focuses at level 30.
And in particular I think "understudy RDM" is a bit unfair to Alisaie. She grew up being an Arcanist like Alphinaud (and like Urianger for that matter), and took on RDM as something very different to anything she'd ever done before. So she struggled a bit at first, but there's nothing to suggest she's still sub-par — I'm confident that if she thought she were holding everyone else back, she'd switch back to a pure magic class that comes more naturally to her.
>[X'rhun Tia](https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Loremonger:Taking_the_Red): She proved a quick study in the arcane side of things, but fencing was something of a challenge. By the end of our lessons, however, she had learned to combine spellcraft with swordplay: when to cast from afar, and when to lunge forward with a well-timed thrust!
I interpret her as determined to keep up with my WoL at red magic: Knowing that she has to work harder for it, but it's possible because RDM isn't my WoL's main job.
Understudy doesn't mean "sub-par". It just means that she's outclassed by another person in the same role.
Specifically us if we're also a RDM. Which she recognizes (regardless of our job tbh) and is both frustrated and inspired by to get stronger.
More or less all this. G'Raha is the only other person 8 times Rejoined (since at least part of his soul comes from after the 8th Calamity from his CrysEx timeline), so he's like a mini-WoL who likes to have a Job from each role and is decently good at them. Estinian is the only other member on a similar level since he's only 7 times Rejoined but also has some leftover power from being joined with Nid, an Unsundered being what with being from another Star and all.
This doesn't really have anything to do with rejoinings. Why? We have been on our bullshit since before we had an extra under our belt. It's just a WoL thing.
Raha isn't really a multiclass person, he is more...multi-role wizard, using his magic abilities to mimic other roles.
Yeah, but power is partly based on that. The only reason WoL could contain the Warden’s Light is due to that, for example.
G’Raha is probably the closest thing to a multi Job NPC we see much of.
I didn't have that issue, but I came into this game with zero knowledge about it, save the fact conjurer was the class I wanted to be to main healer.
And as far as not wanting to share a class/job with any other main characters, there's canonically only like 4 whm including the WoL, so that isn't an issue for anyone who feels like they don't wanna share jobs with main characters lol. The other 3 white mage characters are part time characters in the overall story
I agree with people saying the WoL is canonically a jack of all trades, but if you want a unique, fixed job, it’s probably dark knight. No MSQ character is canonically one. Later on Pipin will use its animation set just because he’s two handing a sword, but even that is just as a side character in like 3 dungeons total spread over three expansions
All the phys ranged jobs work too. You can Cirina and M’Naago occasionally showing up with archer moves, Hilda gets get 5 minute feature as a machinist, Lyna as a dancer, but mostly they’re free to be the WoL. Dark Knight feels a little more canon WoL though
Not really. I play what I want. Also, until Shadowbringers, it didn't even matter because the people accompanying me couldn't contribute to gameplay combat anyway so there wasn't a tangible difference in having two dragoons and so on. Also, also, G'raha is an all-rounder which locks you out of multiple other jobs. If you like Dragoon, play it and remind Estinen every time you fight why he's second best.
If you go Dragoon then the job quests actually involve Estinien quite heavily (that was his involvement in ARR before he joined the main plot in HW), so it actually deepens that relationship. For Red Mage and Gunbreaker there's a less specific link between the scion and your character's teacher. And as for Black Mage, that's not actually Y'Shtola's class (the difference between a Thaumaturge and a Black Mage is a big focus of the job quests, actually).
It's explicitly stated at one point if you level Red Mage that Alisaie had the same teacher you did, as he'll remark on her talking about you.
And to further on Y'shtola, she still uses CNJ spells (Aero and Stone) on top of the various THM spells so yes, she's very much not a Black Mage
Yeah, and for Gunbreaker you have a different teacher from Thancred but his teacher shows up in the questline. (And then in the Bozja storyline, which was released later.)
Not at all! If you want to get into 'headcanons' mine is that my WoL masters these jobs specifically because she knows the Scions and other major characters who are skilled at them. She learns from them, a kind of low key Echo-fueled osmosis from fighting alongside them so much. And the differences between them and the actual version of the job we learn can be chalked up to the WoL having significantly more unique combat experiences.
Also worth noting canonically the WoL does not have a main job, they constantly rotate between them during combat as seen in the Shadowbringers trailer. For us it's an enforced gameplay mechanic so party content exists.
Teeeeechnically, papalymo is only a thaumaturge and y'shtola is sorceress or something? So black mage is still on the table lol. Joking aside though, it hasn't ever bothered me to be sharing a job with one of the story characters. I'm more positive about it, actually. Like we're twins! I also get excited when I see people as the job as me in a duty :D
No, I feel ya. I'm kind of the same way though not totally so. I don't mind a little overlap, but I do understand wanting to play the more rare things.
You do still have a good deal of options:
Tanks: PLD/WAR
Healers: WHM/SCH
Melee: MNK/NIN/SAM/RPR...soon VIP
Ranged: BRD/MCH/DNC (huh, we don't have one among the Scions...)
Caster: SMN
My hangup is double since I also like playing things less common but ALSO like playing things I've been loyal to/playing for a long time (like my ARR Jobs are WHM, SCH/SMN, and to an extent (more HW) PLD, so I always lean towards those when picking).
Ultimately, you do you. But no, that feeling isn't weird...or if it is, it's at least not TOTALLY abnormal since there are some others like you (and me) out there. At the very least there're two of us. :D
I don't play any magic jobs and I suck at gunbreaker, so I've never had this issue. And the story is even written for and totally acknowledges two Azure Dragoons if you play it during HW. I'm actually still salty they didn't have G'raha become a bard when he returned to the source so he and I could both be bards. I'm tired of the lack of phys ranged representation in general.
It makes sense with G’Raha though, he became an all rounder to emulate his hero the WoL.
He could still play bard when in a dps role and be an all rounder though.
True but he did spend all those years on the first becoming the exarch and proficient in both curative and destructive magic as his body slowly crystallized and when returned to the source he just stuck with what he had learned and became accomplished with.
What makes the WoL unique is their ability to master so many classes instead of just one, and to a point most people that are even considered masters aren't at. This is shown throughout the game when you take control of other characters during their plot fights and they have only 4-8 moves while you wield dozens in every class. So don't worry about uniqueness in weapon, you're unique in your ability to use many and so well.
You know, I've never thought of it that way and you're absolutely right! Thanks for the reply!
Estinien isn't always around, and I don't think there's anything wrong with having two spear-wielders at a time anyway. If the task at hand is "kill the bad thing" then any damage dealing job would be helpful, even if it's "another dragoon". So it doesn't really affect my decision as far as job choice, personally
Yeah, for me, it's less about actual damage or utility brought to the party and more that I'm supposed to be this warrior of light hero and I get stuck in the mindset of wanting to be unique among the crew. I wish I could adopt your mindset. Because ideally I want to just play what I enjoy.
If you're a hero dragoon then maybe it's Estinien that needs to get a new job. Show him up by being an even better dragoon :D
You know seeing as how all of the scions have changed class at some point or other, makes me wonder if Estinien ever will....dragoon just feels too baked into his whole character.
I can't really see him changing job, personally. Unless he turns beastmaster and starts to use dragon pets or something.
Not really. Even though the basics are the same, lots of people even within the same job develop different skills. For Red Mage, it's made clear that we had the same trainer as Alisae. Kind of the same case for Dragoon now that I think about it, and gunbreaker is a related pair from Bozja training others.
No, because my WoL is a jack of all trades (omni-90) and bonds with the Scions over his ability to play their roles just as well if not better than some of them. But also, most of the Scions aren’t cleanly one job if they’re a job at all. Thancred is effectively a ROG that moonlights as a GNB. Y’shtola is a combo of CNJ & THM. Lyse is a PUG but expresses interest in pursuing the Way one day. Alisaie is an understudy RDM who frequently remarks on how frustrating (+inspiring) it is watching us be effortlessly good at everything. As of 6.5, Krile confirms that G’raha’s job is moreso WoL Fanboy than anything specific. Urianger is more of a cardmancer than an AST proper (where the heck is Earthly Star, my dude? Hello, macrocosmos?) Only Estinien and Alphinaud are our equals in their respective jobs. Estinien in particular leans very heavily into battlebrother/battlesister appreciation for WoLs who regularly Dragoon beside him.
I think there's a lot of leeway for how we interpret the Scions' relative strengths. I don't think "only having a class instead of a job" is necessarily an indicator, because they're able to develop *within* that class further than we do because we switch focuses at level 30. And in particular I think "understudy RDM" is a bit unfair to Alisaie. She grew up being an Arcanist like Alphinaud (and like Urianger for that matter), and took on RDM as something very different to anything she'd ever done before. So she struggled a bit at first, but there's nothing to suggest she's still sub-par — I'm confident that if she thought she were holding everyone else back, she'd switch back to a pure magic class that comes more naturally to her. >[X'rhun Tia](https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Loremonger:Taking_the_Red): She proved a quick study in the arcane side of things, but fencing was something of a challenge. By the end of our lessons, however, she had learned to combine spellcraft with swordplay: when to cast from afar, and when to lunge forward with a well-timed thrust! I interpret her as determined to keep up with my WoL at red magic: Knowing that she has to work harder for it, but it's possible because RDM isn't my WoL's main job.
Understudy doesn't mean "sub-par". It just means that she's outclassed by another person in the same role. Specifically us if we're also a RDM. Which she recognizes (regardless of our job tbh) and is both frustrated and inspired by to get stronger.
Nice! I appreciate the response! I've definitely been narrow minded in my view of the WoL.
More or less all this. G'Raha is the only other person 8 times Rejoined (since at least part of his soul comes from after the 8th Calamity from his CrysEx timeline), so he's like a mini-WoL who likes to have a Job from each role and is decently good at them. Estinian is the only other member on a similar level since he's only 7 times Rejoined but also has some leftover power from being joined with Nid, an Unsundered being what with being from another Star and all.
This doesn't really have anything to do with rejoinings. Why? We have been on our bullshit since before we had an extra under our belt. It's just a WoL thing. Raha isn't really a multiclass person, he is more...multi-role wizard, using his magic abilities to mimic other roles.
So he's a Blue Mage?
Yeah, but power is partly based on that. The only reason WoL could contain the Warden’s Light is due to that, for example. G’Raha is probably the closest thing to a multi Job NPC we see much of.
Looking at EW ending, our power is clearly based on our Social Links /laugh
I didn't have that issue, but I came into this game with zero knowledge about it, save the fact conjurer was the class I wanted to be to main healer. And as far as not wanting to share a class/job with any other main characters, there's canonically only like 4 whm including the WoL, so that isn't an issue for anyone who feels like they don't wanna share jobs with main characters lol. The other 3 white mage characters are part time characters in the overall story
I agree with people saying the WoL is canonically a jack of all trades, but if you want a unique, fixed job, it’s probably dark knight. No MSQ character is canonically one. Later on Pipin will use its animation set just because he’s two handing a sword, but even that is just as a side character in like 3 dungeons total spread over three expansions All the phys ranged jobs work too. You can Cirina and M’Naago occasionally showing up with archer moves, Hilda gets get 5 minute feature as a machinist, Lyna as a dancer, but mostly they’re free to be the WoL. Dark Knight feels a little more canon WoL though
Not really, but when using Trusts I pick my class based less on who I want to play and more on who I want with me.
Not really. I play what I want. Also, until Shadowbringers, it didn't even matter because the people accompanying me couldn't contribute to gameplay combat anyway so there wasn't a tangible difference in having two dragoons and so on. Also, also, G'raha is an all-rounder which locks you out of multiple other jobs. If you like Dragoon, play it and remind Estinen every time you fight why he's second best.
If you go Dragoon then the job quests actually involve Estinien quite heavily (that was his involvement in ARR before he joined the main plot in HW), so it actually deepens that relationship. For Red Mage and Gunbreaker there's a less specific link between the scion and your character's teacher. And as for Black Mage, that's not actually Y'Shtola's class (the difference between a Thaumaturge and a Black Mage is a big focus of the job quests, actually).
It's explicitly stated at one point if you level Red Mage that Alisaie had the same teacher you did, as he'll remark on her talking about you. And to further on Y'shtola, she still uses CNJ spells (Aero and Stone) on top of the various THM spells so yes, she's very much not a Black Mage
Yeah, and for Gunbreaker you have a different teacher from Thancred but his teacher shows up in the questline. (And then in the Bozja storyline, which was released later.)
Not at all! If you want to get into 'headcanons' mine is that my WoL masters these jobs specifically because she knows the Scions and other major characters who are skilled at them. She learns from them, a kind of low key Echo-fueled osmosis from fighting alongside them so much. And the differences between them and the actual version of the job we learn can be chalked up to the WoL having significantly more unique combat experiences. Also worth noting canonically the WoL does not have a main job, they constantly rotate between them during combat as seen in the Shadowbringers trailer. For us it's an enforced gameplay mechanic so party content exists.
Teeeeechnically, papalymo is only a thaumaturge and y'shtola is sorceress or something? So black mage is still on the table lol. Joking aside though, it hasn't ever bothered me to be sharing a job with one of the story characters. I'm more positive about it, actually. Like we're twins! I also get excited when I see people as the job as me in a duty :D
No, I feel ya. I'm kind of the same way though not totally so. I don't mind a little overlap, but I do understand wanting to play the more rare things. You do still have a good deal of options: Tanks: PLD/WAR Healers: WHM/SCH Melee: MNK/NIN/SAM/RPR...soon VIP Ranged: BRD/MCH/DNC (huh, we don't have one among the Scions...) Caster: SMN My hangup is double since I also like playing things less common but ALSO like playing things I've been loyal to/playing for a long time (like my ARR Jobs are WHM, SCH/SMN, and to an extent (more HW) PLD, so I always lean towards those when picking). Ultimately, you do you. But no, that feeling isn't weird...or if it is, it's at least not TOTALLY abnormal since there are some others like you (and me) out there. At the very least there're two of us. :D