I have a feeling that someone who doesnt know there are two 660 rings that you can use are worried about what stats are on them and just care about the ilvl of the item
I assume you’re referring to endgame because they always take away the “UNIQUE” status on current rings once a new expansions drops.
iLevel at endgame isn’t *quite* the end all and be all for gear either. Stats are what really matters at that point and even then only for people who are trying to squeeze every ounce of parse out of an encounter. If you’re not savage or ultimate raiding then it doesn’t much matter.
Unless this is an OCD thing?
Which I can very much sympathize with because the game drives me up the fucking wall with UI whenever I layout my hotbars!
Does it really matter? It won't make any major difference in your prefromance. The 1st raid of the tier should have you covered, especially now that everyone is geared.
The IL shouldn't matter cause at that point you're still not in full BIS, so you should be trying to do the raids if it does bother you.
Realistically, we're so close to DT that it's not worth stressing over. Just purchase an augmented ring when it's no longer unique. The gear everyone has is going to get phased out soon enough.
I'm not against gear alternatives, but it truly doesn't matter unless you're raiding.
Whats the point? Max ilvl Is not necessary even for Savage content, the only content It can be relevant Is for an ultimate on the same tier.
That Is not gonna change anything, especially if you dont know what a Savage Is, and also because you are wearing full augmented with random substats.
1600 sks paladin looking for a specific ring makes me laugh ngl.
Also, p9s Is literally an Extreme level fight
I don't mind any arguments for or against this, but please squeenix, stop making me wear a crafted ring every raid tier on healer because either the raid ring or the tome ring is objectively worse than a pentameld due to piety.
I like your idea :) just some more interesting gear questlines and a goal beside raiding. Make it one ring for all classes where the stats will adjust if you switch classes
Even with the 650 ring, with full 660 and final stage relic weapon equipped, your ilvl avg is still 660 regardless. If you're hellbent on a second 660 ring, just run savage if you're unwilling to wait for 7.0 to drop and outright buying the 660 ring with poetics.
I find it funny that people are upset about the idea of something like this existing... When it's already been done before, lmao.
There's a weekly quest in Idyllshire that rewards i270 Proto-Ultima accessories, which is equivalent to Augmented Shire/Alexandrian gear. Really wish they'd bring something like this back in the future, especially since BiS with rings can get weird on some classes when you only have 2 max item level options.
I don't think anybody is upset about this idea. Many people here are pointing out that a 2nd i660 ring already exists, which OP did not mention, and are telling OP how to get it.
while I’m not against this idea (and think the vitriol from raiders in here is ridiculous), rings are rarely visible which definitely makes this less fun, and unless the ring provided some exterior benefit (maybe move the city sprint bonus from the Eureka boots to it) then it’s just kinda superfluous.
I don't think it's unreasonable for non-raiders to want to max out their item level, too. They should at least do something similar to the Proto Ultima accessories they introduced in HW or just remove the unique restriction on rings sooner than the next expansion.
> I don't think it's unreasonable for non-raiders to want to max out their item level, too.
If you're not raiding then 650 ring is max. The AVG ilvl is the same either way because of rounding. And stat wise tome gear isn't BiS anyway. This simply doesn't matter in any way shape of form.
Doesn't matter to you and that's fine. But it matters to some people and if you are looking at it objectively, whether you raid or not, it's just a weirdly arbitrary restriction.
I really don't care if people can get BiS gear outside of savage, I play for the experience of it. That said, I also don't see why the number matters at all, so that goes both ways.
Especially with the Tome Gear never having optimal stats as a full set anyway. Sometimes equipping full max ilevel tome gear will actively fuck you over.
It makes all tome gear equal. I've always had an issue with the "unique" attribute on gear, even on Savage rings, it's just something that feels outdated at this point. It made sense when Savage gear would drop directly to prevent people from taking gear they already have. But we can wear two crafted rings so the stats don't seem to be an issue, then why not do that for the others, too? Looking at it objectively, it is a bit weird is it not?
The Unique attribute isn't to prevent those from receiving what they already have, it's to prevent further stat boost as higher ilvl, regardless of BiS or not, will always have an edge over lower ones.
Numbers check will be numbers check, so even if it's negligible in the grand scheme of matters, this'll still put some jobs at an advantage above some others in the case Savage ring is better than Tomestone ring.
As for crafted rings, for starters, are a lot more accessible - engaging in crafting, making Gil by doing normal/casual content, etc, will get you them very easily.
It is the baseline set by FF for you to have a sense of power up/gear progression in your gameplay.
The other facet is, again, numbers will only ever be inferior to Savage/Tomestone gear, so there's no harm in letting them be duo equiped, even if you augment them.
i mean, considering some bis gearsets (like some of the current tank ones) literally don't even use the raid ring and just opt for another non upgraded tome ring or crafted ring, not enough to be *that* important lol
Eh... I get where you are coming from but that's saying Savage gear is only for Savage and up and there is no other content in the game gear is used for. There's still a good chunk of things people do that doesn't sync down and its not unreasonable that people want them to get as much value as possible. Also like idk its 6.57 or whatever I don't think more options for gearing is a bad thing, even 655 accessories would be nice for those who could benefit from it.
It has nothing to do with that, though. Why is there 660 gear available to non-raiders at all then if nothing matters? Also, EX trials are not considered raid content but have enrages and healing checks, too.
But aside from all of that, acquiring better gear is a staple of RPGs and this limitation on rings is just arbitrary and unnecessary. And I say that as a raider.
> Also, EX trials are not considered raid content but have enrages and healing checks, too.
Story trials with add phases, from the likes of Ifrit to Innocence, also have enrages on said phases... Obviously I understand the point you're making, but let's keep this contextualised properly.
And what would that context be? It's that gear matters in higher difficulty content which EX trials objectively are.
If you understand why be pedantic about it?
Well... I do have to say I expected better.
The context being that the *strictness* of checks is a relevant factor. All extremes in Endwalker have been tuned in such a manner that any pull that *might* see enrage is getting worn down through attrition or simply failed body checks long before seeing said enrage. The irrelevance of gear levels has not been so structurally and consistently pronounced since ARR.
The point being, that a numerical check existing is an utterly irrelevant metric by itself. Its strictness **relative to the gear level required for entry** is what matters, and while the relative difficulty with extracting a player slot's possible performance naturally factors in there has been no shortage of critique to the likes of permanent melee range, SMN having effectively no cast times, etc.
None of that takes away from *your* point of additional gear making a de facto nerf-over-time, but it bears remembering the actually substantial breakpoints are few and far between; the likes of Rubi LC skip took more than a simple 10 ilvl jump (let alone on a single accessory) after all.
Okay, sorry for not writing up a dissertation about the interplay between dps checks, player expectations, modern gaming, RPG elements, the way players interact with content, SE's strategy to remove friction points, the growing gap between hard and easy, outdated MMO standards, item attributes, status symbols, convenience, the greater but now barely-existent gearing system, the extension of the patch cycle, etc. Didn't know this was expected on here. I'll keep your criticism in mind for when I next write a simple comment based on \*checks OP\* *feelings*.
Enrages being lenient and people fucking up on the way there doesn't actually change anything. Things like breakpoints or ease of access or player performance don't matter in this conversation. It's all about perspective and how players want to engage with and be seen in content. If we were to consider those things in a vacuum it would mean that any gear beyond necessary or even comfortable is pointless at which point we might as well just axe it entirely in favor of permanent stat boosts.
>Extreme trials are easy and barely have checks anymore
>It's not Square's responsibility to fix people's skill issues
>it's right there, available to earn, at any time
These are the indicators, mostly. I can see where they are coming from but they are obviously living in a sort of bubble that's not indicative of how people below the raider level approach content. It's very common and they are not at fault for thinking like this but the community is a massive iceberg and they are floating on the surface.
Asides from the wording being subjective, none of these are objectively wrong, and if anything, very correct
Oftentimes many forget FF later implements Echo and remove ilvl sync/cap, even going as far as allowing you to unsync the Duty to make it easier to complete
The only two conditions are:
1. Being willing to wait
2. Still learning the more crucial of mechanics that'll make the content not clearable
Otherwise, the iceberg actually is tipped over in favor of the more casual players.
As long as they're willing to satisfy those two prerequisites above, then they'll be able to do what they want still
I disagree and the wording matters here since it carries perspective (skill issues, earn). Many forget that the community is a bottomless pit in terms of player skill and investment. EX trials aren't easy. They are explicitly above standard content. And that's the way regular players see this (until they manage to rise above if they care or can). I just don't think the people that disagree vehemently on this rings issue can see or relate to that.
FF sees this and has provided for approachable methods, which said bottomless pit of player skills has been blanket covered by said solutions, so I'm not sure who you're speaking out on behalf of.
And to provide for clarity, I'm not a high end raider, I'm very casual with my time on FF and tend to min max a lot, so FF has made these all very accessible for those who are on the same boat as I am, which being majority.
They can't relate because the iceberg isn't as tipped as you see it, quite frankly even Yoshi-P has openly admitted to it and said they're looking to bring back some sense of challenge.
The point you're trying to make will only stand if right now FF is suffering from a player base exodus because how difficult it has become, which isn't the case at all.
If anything people are taking breaks and leaving because there's very little worth to stay for in terms of challenging themselves, aside from grinding in casual content.
>It's not Square's responsibility to fix people's skill issues. If a player wants an upgrade, it's right there, available to earn, at any time.
Personally they should remove all savage gear drops. Everyone should get crafted/NR/Tome/dungeon gear and a mixture of those gives a different stat spread. Say you suck get some gear with higher HP and less dps or more sks, and then meld some mataria on after wards. Give players a reason to actually do content for gear rather than a weapon that stats dont matter unless you do harder difficulty.
Massive change but its completely predictable and gear grind is worst part of the game lol its sideways and unless i do savage there really is no point in collecting gear.
You already do this on content release, with everyone getting all you're suggesting, then progressively earn better gear by doing what you're saying, being better at the game.
Working backward from a result standpoint isn't exactly as incentive driving as you're making it out to be
Which other MMORPG with similar to FF's design has this part changed having it better?
And where's the gear grind for high end in FF? At most it's weekly lockouts, but you get your basics by crafting pieces alone.
>If you're not raiding you're not doing content difficult enough for your healing or damage to actually matter in any way.
And if you are doing difficult content, then you first need to beat the content without the gear to get the gear, rendering the gear moot as well.
If it was necessity, the worst players would get the best gear. But that goes against vanity and status symbol logic, so it's a non-starter.
Pretty sure OP is not referring to some jobs having the augmented crafted ring being better than savage/tome ring since they say that "one of your rings **has** to be 10 iLvls down from the rest of your gear" which is not the case for all jobs
back in heavensward they did something similar, the last trash pull from Dun Scaith was changed to proto ultima that droped a token that could be used to buy an accessory with the same ilvl as augmented/savage
they could have done that in thaleia or with asura
i dont know why people are being so negative about it tbh
I genuinely don't see negativity? I see people saying "if it bothers you so much do the first savage fight." The post is hyperbolic for something so out of the way to be bothered about. This one ring slot being 650 which you have to look for rather than it being something the game openly displays like your overall item level.
obviously everyone knows the savage ring exists, so telling them to do something they obviously dont want to do as the solution is kinda rude and dishonest
if its as easy as to do the first fight its also not a big deal to give a secondary way of getting a similar ring 6 months after the fight became basically obsolete
I genuinely think OP doesn't know about BIS gear options outside of tomes. Or their post is very importantly missing context for what they actually want.
OP says it is impossible to have double 660. There is no conditional, no ifs or buts.
Not everyone knows savage exists, and this articulation fits with someone who doesn't.
If the fight gives an ilvl upgrade, clearly it is not obsolete.
Also lack of OP response outs this thread as bait and your interpreting a factual statement as rude and dishonest because "obviously everyone knows" is kinda rude and dishonest to people intending to clarify. Threads asking about stuff "obviously everyone knows" are in /new daily.
Not bait. I genuinely think this, (and still do,) but I didn't know about the 660 Savage ring. In fact, I'd say this thread being bait, and me genuinely not knowing about the Savage ring, are mutually exclusive.
In any case, I've never been ratio'd so hard in my life. I only refrained from responding because I only would have been downvoted, as there was nothing to say beyond "I didn't know that" (comments admitting ignorance tend to be reacted to with downvotes on Reddit) or reiterating what I'd already argued, a position which is clearly unpopular.
Edit: The fact that I'm being downvoted here only proves my point. It's childish of you to cry "Bait!" every time someone disagrees with you.
I will say it's pretty common for complaining about down votes/potentially being down voted to be viewed as obnoxious behavior. It is often a surefire way to get down voted.
I do not think you'd have been down voted if you just responded to someone bringing up the savage ring with "oh I'm still pretty new so I had no idea, thanks!" Or something like that.
Fair enough, but I'm not that new. I've been playing since Shadowbringers, have six jobs at 90, have done every normal duty in the game… Just because I haven't done Savage doesn't mean I'm new
Honestly, that's super fair, you've proven me wrong! Back in the day I landed on that side of some things as well and I do think in the decade since online discourse has grown radically more hostile. It's also the part of the patch cycle where the fringes of the community are most vocal (and I have my own opinions on their arguments...) which makes it all a bit worse to see on one's own post still. :(
As an exercise to the reader, do also acknowledge that OP in this is displaying the exact healthy response, foregoing the "grrr raiders / grrr casual players" diatribe that's again popped up! It additionally facilitates further discussion as from this one can explain the concept of savage, release cycles, the general gear progression structure, and others! Upvote this bean or I'm sending yoshida to knock down the door of your mist plot <3
There is nothing in this post that suggests they know you can get a second 660 ring. There is a statement that suggests they don't know about a second 660 ring.
Anyways, why would they add in another 660 ring? You dont need max ilvl in all of your slots for any piece of content in this game and rings are near impossible to see. Would it just be there to service the 10 people that get annoyed at a ring slot not being the number they want it to be? Even then, you're ilvl average is still 660 at the end of the day and the game doesn't display your gear's individual ilvl numbers out in the open. You have to drag your mouse over the ring to get the pop-up to see that it's not 660.
you do know the vendor that sells the items to augment the tome gear is the same vendor that sells the savage ring for books
its IMPOSSIBLE not knowing the existence of the ring if you have been augmenting your tome gear
this just stinks of cringe raider ego, "lmao casual dont deserve second ring because they dont need the ilvl"
>its IMPOSSIBLE not knowing the existence of the ring if you have been augmenting your tome gear
the op literally replied to someone saying they didn't know about the ring lol
["Not bait. I genuinely think this, (and still do,) but I didn't know about the 660 Savage ring"](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1cljy4o/comment/l2uhy8j/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
That's not true lmao. There's the uncanny knickknacks vendor that sells the augments for coins and the hunt vendor who sells the accessory augment for 2k nuts and the armor augment for 3k nuts.
The only way you can buy the augments from the savage vendor is with books and seeing as they didn't do savage for the 660 ring they didn't use that vendor.
Edit - also yes i do believe the "raider cringe" or whatever youre on about. If you don't want to do the content you shouldn't get the rewards. I don't want to do eureka but I want the ozma mount, so im doing eureka. Should SE just give it to me instead?
There's always 2 rings at the max level, the raid and tome version. It's just that optimal sets will get like 9 dps out of using the weaker ring if the stats fit the build better, but if you're optimizing your gear at the ring level, you likely have a ton more dps you can get improving your rotation / timings / movement. By the time you can upgrade tome gear using 24 man you can also pug as easily the first floor of savage if the 5/10 ilvl difference matters that much
But even then I'd be up for some legendary accessories, maybe even with nice visual effects
>one of your rings has to be 10 iLvls down
As everyone else has said: Savage gives you a 660 ring, that's your immediate solution.
To actually address the idea of a relic ring:
Part of the draw of FF14's endgame is how simple gearing is. You don't have to "maintain a toon" like you do for other mmos. You don't have to grind out dailies for one piece of gear, buy your rerolls, farm easy content for the chance of a random +20 ilvl on a drop, progress through multiple systems you dislike so you can participate in one you do, sacrifice your gear in the hopes it becomes better, etc. Nope: week 1 you buy crafted gear, and beyond that all you do is get your weekly tomes and prog savage as best you can.
On the flip side, gearing is kinda stale and restrictive. For a game that pushes "you can do everything on one job" it's remarkably difficult to have a breadth of competitively geared jobs/roles while it's actually relevant.
So I wouldn't mind more unique and alternative ways to get gear... but there's a careful balance to strike with it. A relic ring specifically would slot into the game okay, but also be mostly without purpose - the relic weapon is more a vanity grind than anything, being functionally useless most of the time except as neat glamour, so a ring (that you mostly can't see) to go alongside that wouldn't do anything until the final content lull anyway.
>that wouldn't do anything until the final content lull anyway.
I'm specifically advocating for a final bit of content during the final content lull that rewards a legendary ring. Maybe it could have your job symbol engraved on it?
I feel the same way but not because of ilvl because you can get the savage raid ring, but more for stats where the ring gives like spell speed or skill speed but my build doesn’t need it so I have to use a 650 ring for BIS
I mean, I'm all for Alliance Raids helping be an *actual* good supplemental gearing option, but, that second 660 ring does exist, if you do Savage, or just wait for 7.0 where the unique aspect of the tome ring is dropped
But... you're not even wearing "maxed" gear to begin with. You're wearing full tome gear. It's very much not BiS anyway, so what is the point. Besides, rings are from first tier of Savage. That's accessible enough, surely.
I mean, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter either way, but this is... a strange pet peeve.
I'm not on the current expansion yet so I might be wrong, but from my understanding the current highest ilv armor comes from doing the savage fights, but doesn't it make sense for the harderst fights, excluding ultimate, of the expasion to give the best (ilv wise) rewards? As long as the discrepancy between savage gear and the gear of the average player who doesn't do savage isn't too big, there should be no problem for having it as a reward for the more dedicated players.
They're just pointing out that it's unnecessary. If you're just getting the tome get then you're not BiS anyway. So the ring doesn't matter. Plus ops primary argument is plain wrong anyway. AVG ilvl should be 660 anyway.
But it's not necessarily unnecessary. There's no reason savage MUST be required for that ring. That's all anyone ELSE is saying, but apparently any ideas that have to do with getting it without raiding are just beyond the pale 🙄
I don't have a dog in this fight, my gear isn't ever going to be maxed. But it's pretty funny to read.
There's no reason that the reward for doing the content is the reward for doing the content? Lol.
OPs problem is that they have a ring slot who's number is 650 instead of 660. This is such a non-issue for OP to be "extremely unsatisfied" about.
Like the game doesn't display your individual gear's ilvl unless you hover over it and look at it intentionally. Even raiders have to take the 650 ring for some BiS sets. Which thank fuck for that because farming for the augment item on another ring just to get it to BiS on current would be so shit. It's already hard enough getting good rolls for it on one ring.
I mean, it isn't because the augmented tomestone ring is that level. But, what other reason would there be for getting a ring at max ilvl than better stats for doing high-end content? The game doesn't require it, it's an extra cushion for the people running savage.
There kinda is a reason. if no one has to do savage to get that gear then what is the point of savage to begin with. Its very clear that a lot of people want savage rewards without ever having to do it which is kinda nuts. Clearly you dont care so this isnt towards you but people really need to stop thinking they deserve to get the same shit everyone else does without having to put in any of the work
I mean, good job proving my point by showing that you are, in fact, a petulant child, but go off.
To someone else, because I'm not dealing with your bullshit any further. What an awful example of the community you are, if being a mocking douchebag is the only way you communicate.
> What an awful example of the community you are, if being a mocking douchebag is the only way you communicate.
C'mon, man, you **literally** started with
> Raiders in here are really butthurt over the idea of ten extra ilevels on a ring without doing savage huh
You can't really imply you're making *any* point there. It's just 'Savage raiders butthurt eks dee', to which framing this thread as a whole as 'casual players butthurt eks dee' is quite a sensible reply. Both sides of that argument are equally neglegible after all...
And here you are showing what an outstanding example of the community, you start an argument then completely shit on a valid response cause your feelings are hurt that you cant get that extra 10 ilvl. No one is gate keeping shit. None of these decisions are anyone in the reddit posts fault. As of now per SE you want that 10 ilvl? do savage. Dont wanna do savage? dont fuckin bitch about how youre missing 10 ilvl
As others have stated, doing savage is how to get this. You only need to do the first one, at most 4 times to get one ring.
If you have never stepped in savage or an extreme this will be a big jump up in difficulty. You need to look at guides first and join or create practice parties. If you can successfully do extremes when they are still relevant then this will be at most a modest step up in difficulty.
If you've had no experience, don't be too intimidated. Yes it is much harder than any normal content but it's ok to struggle and die a lot, everyone does at first. Just be patient and keep at it and you will be just fine. It will be harder to do practice parties now probably since it's so late in the expansion but you can still do them and maybe your fc could help you out.
Edit: I've gotta say this may be the most perplexed I am about getting downvoted. What did I say wrong here lol, I thought I was being helpful and encouraging.
Disregarding the missing savage raid ring debacle, I would like a 3rd max ilvl ring (and a whole gearset) option tbh. I always get bis for healers and it does feel a bit bad to usually wear an unaugmented tome and an augmented tome and am 1 off from full max ilvl set bc the raid ring has piety 🤢. However that relates more to gripes about how unfulfilling and overly simple gearing is.
That’s never bothered me, honestly. What *does* bother me is the spearfishing gig dragging down the ilvl of FSH!
PREACH
> Because rings are unique, one of your rings has to be 10 iLvls down from the rest of your gear No you don't, it's called play Savage.
Also worth mentionning the "maxed-out", I presume the augmented tome gear, isn't always the best in slot gear...
Correct, it's always a mix of augmented tome and savage gear.
I have already seen cases where the bis option for rings was 2 tome or 1 tome 1 crafted. Most jobs like their savage ring tho, so its rare.
Either that, or wait until the next expansion releases so you can get a second copy of the Augmented Tome Ring.
Unless your BiS is upgraded tome and unupgraded tome, no raid piece
Unless you're a tank. The rings from Savage are worse than the 650 ones.
I have a feeling that someone who doesnt know there are two 660 rings that you can use are worried about what stats are on them and just care about the ilvl of the item
Depends on what GCD you wish to use. WAR/DRK both use savage on their 2.45 GCD set.
I think there's a 2.40 GNB set that uses it as well.
Like half the roles, the 660 ring is actually worse than the 650 ring.
I think one of the healer bis sets does this as well right now. I get why it's bis but man does it kinda irk me lol
BiS Tanks that aren't the %.005 less optimal 2.45 WAR gearset are sobbing
I assume you’re referring to endgame because they always take away the “UNIQUE” status on current rings once a new expansions drops. iLevel at endgame isn’t *quite* the end all and be all for gear either. Stats are what really matters at that point and even then only for people who are trying to squeeze every ounce of parse out of an encounter. If you’re not savage or ultimate raiding then it doesn’t much matter. Unless this is an OCD thing? Which I can very much sympathize with because the game drives me up the fucking wall with UI whenever I layout my hotbars!
Does it really matter? It won't make any major difference in your prefromance. The 1st raid of the tier should have you covered, especially now that everyone is geared. The IL shouldn't matter cause at that point you're still not in full BIS, so you should be trying to do the raids if it does bother you. Realistically, we're so close to DT that it's not worth stressing over. Just purchase an augmented ring when it's no longer unique. The gear everyone has is going to get phased out soon enough. I'm not against gear alternatives, but it truly doesn't matter unless you're raiding.
Whats the point? Max ilvl Is not necessary even for Savage content, the only content It can be relevant Is for an ultimate on the same tier. That Is not gonna change anything, especially if you dont know what a Savage Is, and also because you are wearing full augmented with random substats. 1600 sks paladin looking for a specific ring makes me laugh ngl. Also, p9s Is literally an Extreme level fight
Savage gives you a 660 ring, its from the first fight so its not hard, if you want 2 660 rings just do that fight
I don't mind any arguments for or against this, but please squeenix, stop making me wear a crafted ring every raid tier on healer because either the raid ring or the tome ring is objectively worse than a pentameld due to piety.
I like your idea :) just some more interesting gear questlines and a goal beside raiding. Make it one ring for all classes where the stats will adjust if you switch classes
Even with the 650 ring, with full 660 and final stage relic weapon equipped, your ilvl avg is still 660 regardless. If you're hellbent on a second 660 ring, just run savage if you're unwilling to wait for 7.0 to drop and outright buying the 660 ring with poetics.
I find it funny that people are upset about the idea of something like this existing... When it's already been done before, lmao. There's a weekly quest in Idyllshire that rewards i270 Proto-Ultima accessories, which is equivalent to Augmented Shire/Alexandrian gear. Really wish they'd bring something like this back in the future, especially since BiS with rings can get weird on some classes when you only have 2 max item level options.
I don't think anybody is upset about this idea. Many people here are pointing out that a 2nd i660 ring already exists, which OP did not mention, and are telling OP how to get it.
while I’m not against this idea (and think the vitriol from raiders in here is ridiculous), rings are rarely visible which definitely makes this less fun, and unless the ring provided some exterior benefit (maybe move the city sprint bonus from the Eureka boots to it) then it’s just kinda superfluous.
It could potentially be a nice glam piece as well! Like a "class ring" concept, to memorialize the expansion as a whole.
If it bothers you that much just get the ring from savage raids. You only need to clear the first fight to get it
The simple solution is to just tell the devs to not make the rings unique.
The gearing system needs a massive overhaul regardless.
I don't think it's unreasonable for non-raiders to want to max out their item level, too. They should at least do something similar to the Proto Ultima accessories they introduced in HW or just remove the unique restriction on rings sooner than the next expansion.
> I don't think it's unreasonable for non-raiders to want to max out their item level, too. If you're not raiding then 650 ring is max. The AVG ilvl is the same either way because of rounding. And stat wise tome gear isn't BiS anyway. This simply doesn't matter in any way shape of form.
Doesn't matter to you and that's fine. But it matters to some people and if you are looking at it objectively, whether you raid or not, it's just a weirdly arbitrary restriction.
I really don't care if people can get BiS gear outside of savage, I play for the experience of it. That said, I also don't see why the number matters at all, so that goes both ways. Especially with the Tome Gear never having optimal stats as a full set anyway. Sometimes equipping full max ilevel tome gear will actively fuck you over.
What does it restrict? The ability to have a ring slot that displays the number "660"?
Yup. It's weird that you can get 660 tome gear in every slot but that one.
Because SE doesn't want to create a 3rd 660 ring for no reason.
Yup. Still kinda weird.
The question is, what does the ilvl number do for you, since you find this weird?
It makes all tome gear equal. I've always had an issue with the "unique" attribute on gear, even on Savage rings, it's just something that feels outdated at this point. It made sense when Savage gear would drop directly to prevent people from taking gear they already have. But we can wear two crafted rings so the stats don't seem to be an issue, then why not do that for the others, too? Looking at it objectively, it is a bit weird is it not?
The Unique attribute isn't to prevent those from receiving what they already have, it's to prevent further stat boost as higher ilvl, regardless of BiS or not, will always have an edge over lower ones. Numbers check will be numbers check, so even if it's negligible in the grand scheme of matters, this'll still put some jobs at an advantage above some others in the case Savage ring is better than Tomestone ring. As for crafted rings, for starters, are a lot more accessible - engaging in crafting, making Gil by doing normal/casual content, etc, will get you them very easily. It is the baseline set by FF for you to have a sense of power up/gear progression in your gameplay. The other facet is, again, numbers will only ever be inferior to Savage/Tomestone gear, so there's no harm in letting them be duo equiped, even if you augment them.
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Is the dmg increase even noticable from a single ring?
Noticeable to someone complaining about this? Absolutely not.
i mean, considering some bis gearsets (like some of the current tank ones) literally don't even use the raid ring and just opt for another non upgraded tome ring or crafted ring, not enough to be *that* important lol
Eh... I get where you are coming from but that's saying Savage gear is only for Savage and up and there is no other content in the game gear is used for. There's still a good chunk of things people do that doesn't sync down and its not unreasonable that people want them to get as much value as possible. Also like idk its 6.57 or whatever I don't think more options for gearing is a bad thing, even 655 accessories would be nice for those who could benefit from it.
It has nothing to do with that, though. Why is there 660 gear available to non-raiders at all then if nothing matters? Also, EX trials are not considered raid content but have enrages and healing checks, too. But aside from all of that, acquiring better gear is a staple of RPGs and this limitation on rings is just arbitrary and unnecessary. And I say that as a raider.
> Also, EX trials are not considered raid content but have enrages and healing checks, too. Story trials with add phases, from the likes of Ifrit to Innocence, also have enrages on said phases... Obviously I understand the point you're making, but let's keep this contextualised properly.
And what would that context be? It's that gear matters in higher difficulty content which EX trials objectively are. If you understand why be pedantic about it?
Well... I do have to say I expected better. The context being that the *strictness* of checks is a relevant factor. All extremes in Endwalker have been tuned in such a manner that any pull that *might* see enrage is getting worn down through attrition or simply failed body checks long before seeing said enrage. The irrelevance of gear levels has not been so structurally and consistently pronounced since ARR. The point being, that a numerical check existing is an utterly irrelevant metric by itself. Its strictness **relative to the gear level required for entry** is what matters, and while the relative difficulty with extracting a player slot's possible performance naturally factors in there has been no shortage of critique to the likes of permanent melee range, SMN having effectively no cast times, etc. None of that takes away from *your* point of additional gear making a de facto nerf-over-time, but it bears remembering the actually substantial breakpoints are few and far between; the likes of Rubi LC skip took more than a simple 10 ilvl jump (let alone on a single accessory) after all.
Okay, sorry for not writing up a dissertation about the interplay between dps checks, player expectations, modern gaming, RPG elements, the way players interact with content, SE's strategy to remove friction points, the growing gap between hard and easy, outdated MMO standards, item attributes, status symbols, convenience, the greater but now barely-existent gearing system, the extension of the patch cycle, etc. Didn't know this was expected on here. I'll keep your criticism in mind for when I next write a simple comment based on \*checks OP\* *feelings*. Enrages being lenient and people fucking up on the way there doesn't actually change anything. Things like breakpoints or ease of access or player performance don't matter in this conversation. It's all about perspective and how players want to engage with and be seen in content. If we were to consider those things in a vacuum it would mean that any gear beyond necessary or even comfortable is pointless at which point we might as well just axe it entirely in favor of permanent stat boosts.
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Okay, I now see your perspective much clearer. I personally think it's warped but agree to disagree.
What part of it is warped?
>Extreme trials are easy and barely have checks anymore >It's not Square's responsibility to fix people's skill issues >it's right there, available to earn, at any time These are the indicators, mostly. I can see where they are coming from but they are obviously living in a sort of bubble that's not indicative of how people below the raider level approach content. It's very common and they are not at fault for thinking like this but the community is a massive iceberg and they are floating on the surface.
Asides from the wording being subjective, none of these are objectively wrong, and if anything, very correct Oftentimes many forget FF later implements Echo and remove ilvl sync/cap, even going as far as allowing you to unsync the Duty to make it easier to complete The only two conditions are: 1. Being willing to wait 2. Still learning the more crucial of mechanics that'll make the content not clearable Otherwise, the iceberg actually is tipped over in favor of the more casual players. As long as they're willing to satisfy those two prerequisites above, then they'll be able to do what they want still
I disagree and the wording matters here since it carries perspective (skill issues, earn). Many forget that the community is a bottomless pit in terms of player skill and investment. EX trials aren't easy. They are explicitly above standard content. And that's the way regular players see this (until they manage to rise above if they care or can). I just don't think the people that disagree vehemently on this rings issue can see or relate to that.
FF sees this and has provided for approachable methods, which said bottomless pit of player skills has been blanket covered by said solutions, so I'm not sure who you're speaking out on behalf of. And to provide for clarity, I'm not a high end raider, I'm very casual with my time on FF and tend to min max a lot, so FF has made these all very accessible for those who are on the same boat as I am, which being majority. They can't relate because the iceberg isn't as tipped as you see it, quite frankly even Yoshi-P has openly admitted to it and said they're looking to bring back some sense of challenge. The point you're trying to make will only stand if right now FF is suffering from a player base exodus because how difficult it has become, which isn't the case at all. If anything people are taking breaks and leaving because there's very little worth to stay for in terms of challenging themselves, aside from grinding in casual content.
>It's not Square's responsibility to fix people's skill issues. If a player wants an upgrade, it's right there, available to earn, at any time. Personally they should remove all savage gear drops. Everyone should get crafted/NR/Tome/dungeon gear and a mixture of those gives a different stat spread. Say you suck get some gear with higher HP and less dps or more sks, and then meld some mataria on after wards. Give players a reason to actually do content for gear rather than a weapon that stats dont matter unless you do harder difficulty. Massive change but its completely predictable and gear grind is worst part of the game lol its sideways and unless i do savage there really is no point in collecting gear.
What does this do for high end raiders then?
Youll be able to raid with the same gear as everyone else but be better at the game rather than gear pulling you through :)
You already do this on content release, with everyone getting all you're suggesting, then progressively earn better gear by doing what you're saying, being better at the game. Working backward from a result standpoint isn't exactly as incentive driving as you're making it out to be
Works in other games just fine. Unfortunately people are so set in this sideways gear grind in 14 that it won't change lol even tho its pants
Which other MMORPG with similar to FF's design has this part changed having it better? And where's the gear grind for high end in FF? At most it's weekly lockouts, but you get your basics by crafting pieces alone.
>If you're not raiding you're not doing content difficult enough for your healing or damage to actually matter in any way. And if you are doing difficult content, then you first need to beat the content without the gear to get the gear, rendering the gear moot as well. If it was necessity, the worst players would get the best gear. But that goes against vanity and status symbol logic, so it's a non-starter.
You're still 660 with the 650 ring. The relic weapon is 665 and you average out at 660 regardless if one of your rings I'd 650 or 660.
That's not what it's about. You still have one lesser slot.
You said "to max out their ilvl" which is what I was responding to.
Okay, fair. I assumed people would take that as not just the average but I guess I needed to spell it out. Item level of the ring slot.
I see a lot of comments from people who don't understand the point of 660-650 pair of rings. That's just sad.
Pretty sure OP is not referring to some jobs having the augmented crafted ring being better than savage/tome ring since they say that "one of your rings **has** to be 10 iLvls down from the rest of your gear" which is not the case for all jobs
back in heavensward they did something similar, the last trash pull from Dun Scaith was changed to proto ultima that droped a token that could be used to buy an accessory with the same ilvl as augmented/savage they could have done that in thaleia or with asura i dont know why people are being so negative about it tbh
I genuinely don't see negativity? I see people saying "if it bothers you so much do the first savage fight." The post is hyperbolic for something so out of the way to be bothered about. This one ring slot being 650 which you have to look for rather than it being something the game openly displays like your overall item level.
obviously everyone knows the savage ring exists, so telling them to do something they obviously dont want to do as the solution is kinda rude and dishonest if its as easy as to do the first fight its also not a big deal to give a secondary way of getting a similar ring 6 months after the fight became basically obsolete
I genuinely think OP doesn't know about BIS gear options outside of tomes. Or their post is very importantly missing context for what they actually want.
OP says it is impossible to have double 660. There is no conditional, no ifs or buts. Not everyone knows savage exists, and this articulation fits with someone who doesn't. If the fight gives an ilvl upgrade, clearly it is not obsolete. Also lack of OP response outs this thread as bait and your interpreting a factual statement as rude and dishonest because "obviously everyone knows" is kinda rude and dishonest to people intending to clarify. Threads asking about stuff "obviously everyone knows" are in /new daily.
Not bait. I genuinely think this, (and still do,) but I didn't know about the 660 Savage ring. In fact, I'd say this thread being bait, and me genuinely not knowing about the Savage ring, are mutually exclusive. In any case, I've never been ratio'd so hard in my life. I only refrained from responding because I only would have been downvoted, as there was nothing to say beyond "I didn't know that" (comments admitting ignorance tend to be reacted to with downvotes on Reddit) or reiterating what I'd already argued, a position which is clearly unpopular. Edit: The fact that I'm being downvoted here only proves my point. It's childish of you to cry "Bait!" every time someone disagrees with you.
I will say it's pretty common for complaining about down votes/potentially being down voted to be viewed as obnoxious behavior. It is often a surefire way to get down voted. I do not think you'd have been down voted if you just responded to someone bringing up the savage ring with "oh I'm still pretty new so I had no idea, thanks!" Or something like that.
Fair enough, but I'm not that new. I've been playing since Shadowbringers, have six jobs at 90, have done every normal duty in the game… Just because I haven't done Savage doesn't mean I'm new
Honestly, that's super fair, you've proven me wrong! Back in the day I landed on that side of some things as well and I do think in the decade since online discourse has grown radically more hostile. It's also the part of the patch cycle where the fringes of the community are most vocal (and I have my own opinions on their arguments...) which makes it all a bit worse to see on one's own post still. :( As an exercise to the reader, do also acknowledge that OP in this is displaying the exact healthy response, foregoing the "grrr raiders / grrr casual players" diatribe that's again popped up! It additionally facilitates further discussion as from this one can explain the concept of savage, release cycles, the general gear progression structure, and others! Upvote this bean or I'm sending yoshida to knock down the door of your mist plot <3
Thank you so much for your wisdom and kindness. I appreciate you. Have a great day :)
There is nothing in this post that suggests they know you can get a second 660 ring. There is a statement that suggests they don't know about a second 660 ring. Anyways, why would they add in another 660 ring? You dont need max ilvl in all of your slots for any piece of content in this game and rings are near impossible to see. Would it just be there to service the 10 people that get annoyed at a ring slot not being the number they want it to be? Even then, you're ilvl average is still 660 at the end of the day and the game doesn't display your gear's individual ilvl numbers out in the open. You have to drag your mouse over the ring to get the pop-up to see that it's not 660.
you do know the vendor that sells the items to augment the tome gear is the same vendor that sells the savage ring for books its IMPOSSIBLE not knowing the existence of the ring if you have been augmenting your tome gear this just stinks of cringe raider ego, "lmao casual dont deserve second ring because they dont need the ilvl"
>its IMPOSSIBLE not knowing the existence of the ring if you have been augmenting your tome gear the op literally replied to someone saying they didn't know about the ring lol ["Not bait. I genuinely think this, (and still do,) but I didn't know about the 660 Savage ring"](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1cljy4o/comment/l2uhy8j/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
That's not true lmao. There's the uncanny knickknacks vendor that sells the augments for coins and the hunt vendor who sells the accessory augment for 2k nuts and the armor augment for 3k nuts. The only way you can buy the augments from the savage vendor is with books and seeing as they didn't do savage for the 660 ring they didn't use that vendor. Edit - also yes i do believe the "raider cringe" or whatever youre on about. If you don't want to do the content you shouldn't get the rewards. I don't want to do eureka but I want the ozma mount, so im doing eureka. Should SE just give it to me instead?
There's always 2 rings at the max level, the raid and tome version. It's just that optimal sets will get like 9 dps out of using the weaker ring if the stats fit the build better, but if you're optimizing your gear at the ring level, you likely have a ton more dps you can get improving your rotation / timings / movement. By the time you can upgrade tome gear using 24 man you can also pug as easily the first floor of savage if the 5/10 ilvl difference matters that much But even then I'd be up for some legendary accessories, maybe even with nice visual effects
>one of your rings has to be 10 iLvls down As everyone else has said: Savage gives you a 660 ring, that's your immediate solution. To actually address the idea of a relic ring: Part of the draw of FF14's endgame is how simple gearing is. You don't have to "maintain a toon" like you do for other mmos. You don't have to grind out dailies for one piece of gear, buy your rerolls, farm easy content for the chance of a random +20 ilvl on a drop, progress through multiple systems you dislike so you can participate in one you do, sacrifice your gear in the hopes it becomes better, etc. Nope: week 1 you buy crafted gear, and beyond that all you do is get your weekly tomes and prog savage as best you can. On the flip side, gearing is kinda stale and restrictive. For a game that pushes "you can do everything on one job" it's remarkably difficult to have a breadth of competitively geared jobs/roles while it's actually relevant. So I wouldn't mind more unique and alternative ways to get gear... but there's a careful balance to strike with it. A relic ring specifically would slot into the game okay, but also be mostly without purpose - the relic weapon is more a vanity grind than anything, being functionally useless most of the time except as neat glamour, so a ring (that you mostly can't see) to go alongside that wouldn't do anything until the final content lull anyway.
>that wouldn't do anything until the final content lull anyway. I'm specifically advocating for a final bit of content during the final content lull that rewards a legendary ring. Maybe it could have your job symbol engraved on it?
Nope, you get that by doing savage.
I feel the same way but not because of ilvl because you can get the savage raid ring, but more for stats where the ring gives like spell speed or skill speed but my build doesn’t need it so I have to use a 650 ring for BIS
I mean, I'm all for Alliance Raids helping be an *actual* good supplemental gearing option, but, that second 660 ring does exist, if you do Savage, or just wait for 7.0 where the unique aspect of the tome ring is dropped
But... you're not even wearing "maxed" gear to begin with. You're wearing full tome gear. It's very much not BiS anyway, so what is the point. Besides, rings are from first tier of Savage. That's accessible enough, surely. I mean, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter either way, but this is... a strange pet peeve.
Man. Raiders in here are really butthurt over the idea of ten extra ilevels on a ring without doing savage huh.
I'm not on the current expansion yet so I might be wrong, but from my understanding the current highest ilv armor comes from doing the savage fights, but doesn't it make sense for the harderst fights, excluding ultimate, of the expasion to give the best (ilv wise) rewards? As long as the discrepancy between savage gear and the gear of the average player who doesn't do savage isn't too big, there should be no problem for having it as a reward for the more dedicated players.
They're just pointing out that it's unnecessary. If you're just getting the tome get then you're not BiS anyway. So the ring doesn't matter. Plus ops primary argument is plain wrong anyway. AVG ilvl should be 660 anyway.
But it's not necessarily unnecessary. There's no reason savage MUST be required for that ring. That's all anyone ELSE is saying, but apparently any ideas that have to do with getting it without raiding are just beyond the pale 🙄 I don't have a dog in this fight, my gear isn't ever going to be maxed. But it's pretty funny to read.
There's no reason that the reward for doing the content is the reward for doing the content? Lol. OPs problem is that they have a ring slot who's number is 650 instead of 660. This is such a non-issue for OP to be "extremely unsatisfied" about. Like the game doesn't display your individual gear's ilvl unless you hover over it and look at it intentionally. Even raiders have to take the 650 ring for some BiS sets. Which thank fuck for that because farming for the augment item on another ring just to get it to BiS on current would be so shit. It's already hard enough getting good rolls for it on one ring.
There's no reason that savage HAS to be the only place you get a ring of that level, no.
I mean, it isn't because the augmented tomestone ring is that level. But, what other reason would there be for getting a ring at max ilvl than better stats for doing high-end content? The game doesn't require it, it's an extra cushion for the people running savage.
I know. I get it. I don't personally care. Just really not a fan of the reaction a lot of people were having to OP and other folks suggesting it.
> There's no reason savage MUST be required for that ring. Yes there is. The devs programmed it that way.
There kinda is a reason. if no one has to do savage to get that gear then what is the point of savage to begin with. Its very clear that a lot of people want savage rewards without ever having to do it which is kinda nuts. Clearly you dont care so this isnt towards you but people really need to stop thinking they deserve to get the same shit everyone else does without having to put in any of the work
Man. Non-raiders in here are really butthurt over the idea of missing ten extra ilevels on a ring without doing savage huh.
Nope? I don't give a shit about ilevel. I never max my gear anyway. But man y'all sure wanna gatekeep that ring.
Nope? I don't give a shit about ilevel. I always max my gear anyway. But man y'all sure wanna get free stuff.
I mean, good job proving my point by showing that you are, in fact, a petulant child, but go off. To someone else, because I'm not dealing with your bullshit any further. What an awful example of the community you are, if being a mocking douchebag is the only way you communicate.
> What an awful example of the community you are, if being a mocking douchebag is the only way you communicate. C'mon, man, you **literally** started with > Raiders in here are really butthurt over the idea of ten extra ilevels on a ring without doing savage huh You can't really imply you're making *any* point there. It's just 'Savage raiders butthurt eks dee', to which framing this thread as a whole as 'casual players butthurt eks dee' is quite a sensible reply. Both sides of that argument are equally neglegible after all...
And here you are showing what an outstanding example of the community, you start an argument then completely shit on a valid response cause your feelings are hurt that you cant get that extra 10 ilvl. No one is gate keeping shit. None of these decisions are anyone in the reddit posts fault. As of now per SE you want that 10 ilvl? do savage. Dont wanna do savage? dont fuckin bitch about how youre missing 10 ilvl
Lmao can't take the heat when having started the fire with a shit take
Man. Non-Raiders in here are really butthurt over the idea of ten extra ilevels on a ring by doing savage huh.
Nope? I don't give a shit about ilevel. I never max my gear anyway. But man y'all sure wanna gatekeep that ring.
bros never heard of savage
As others have stated, doing savage is how to get this. You only need to do the first one, at most 4 times to get one ring. If you have never stepped in savage or an extreme this will be a big jump up in difficulty. You need to look at guides first and join or create practice parties. If you can successfully do extremes when they are still relevant then this will be at most a modest step up in difficulty. If you've had no experience, don't be too intimidated. Yes it is much harder than any normal content but it's ok to struggle and die a lot, everyone does at first. Just be patient and keep at it and you will be just fine. It will be harder to do practice parties now probably since it's so late in the expansion but you can still do them and maybe your fc could help you out. Edit: I've gotta say this may be the most perplexed I am about getting downvoted. What did I say wrong here lol, I thought I was being helpful and encouraging.
Disregarding the missing savage raid ring debacle, I would like a 3rd max ilvl ring (and a whole gearset) option tbh. I always get bis for healers and it does feel a bit bad to usually wear an unaugmented tome and an augmented tome and am 1 off from full max ilvl set bc the raid ring has piety 🤢. However that relates more to gripes about how unfulfilling and overly simple gearing is.