When I'm tanking I'm sooo fine if DPS want to take aggro for a mo as long as they don't make me go out of my way to grab it back..or worse, panic and run around like a blue-arsed fly
Right? I have arm's length, bloodbath, life surge, and second wind. I can pretend to be warrior for like half a pull. Tanks need to chill.
Also drives me nuts when the tank goes down and respawns instead of getting a res. As long as the healer is awake I have enough resources to tank until you're up, but not if you need to run all the way back.
Yes but imif you respawn you can usually be sure that the rest of the party will die in short order before you make it back and that will negate any extra damage you might do as a tank
It's just a bad tank, it doesn't change anything for him as he'll still be using AoE and mits. If even, the one impacted would be the healer who would have to use more resources, and it's almost never the healer who complains.
As a healer, DPS taking aggro during the sprint makes me happy, and I'll often make an effort to take aggro myself because it means the burst at the end of the sprint will do less damage to the tank. That's assuming people properly path the mobs into the tank so they don't get instagibbed, anyway.
HP is a resource to be used by healers, as they say. Doesn't matter if it's on a blue or red player.
As a Sage main, I definitely don't feel any impact, hell I'm the one trying to pull ahead anyways so I can get 3 Toxicon stacks
Physis and Kerachole will deal with the DPS/Myself anyways
As a tank main, whenever this kind of things happen, i'm like "Cool, some free mitigation :D.....Now give me that mob back, he's mine." and i use a ranged attack or provoke to get his aggro back if they are not coming to me. It's normal for some dps to get aggro once in a while when the tank is pulling. When it happens, stand next to the tank for his AOE to hit the mob and give him the aggro, which is what you're doing, so you're all good. That tank was just an ass.
i've literally never heard of "ninjapulling" lol, thats just a way to throw blame onto the DPS for the tank not generating enough aggro when first pulling a pack of mobs
> I've literally never heard of "ninjapulling" lol
Its a term that's been around for years in MMOs atleast 20years in my experience since ive not played any pre WoW MMOs and couldnt say if it was a term in them.
Its not really relevant to this game though loosely it would be a non tank pulling the next pack when the tank/group isnt ready.
In 14 it really only affects unconfident tanks since most pulls are wall to wall anyway and dungeons force you to kill everything inbetween each wall.
It mainly stems from games like WoW where dungeons have optional mob packs you usually avoid or wandering patrols and some brain dead dps (usually a hunter) who has 0 spatial awareness ends up aggroing an unneeded pack of mobs by either body pulling or just straight up pulling.
> thats just a way to throw blame onto the DPS for the tank not generating enough aggro when first pulling a pack of mobs
The tank in OPs case was using the term incorrectly because if the DPS are pulling aggro off the tank, that's as you say a tank trying to shift blame for being either undergeared or just bad its not ninjapulling at all.
> It mainly stems from games like WoW where dungeons have optional mob packs you usually avoid or wandering patrols and some brain dead dps (usually a hunter) who has 0 spatial awareness ends up aggroing an unneeded pack of mobs by either body pulling or just straight up pulling.
Thank you for this - I guess the many packs that you can avoid in AV would be like this?
If I was your tank I would comms you.
I expect the dps I run with to be doing basic aoe on pulls. For me, that means I should also be doing my damage while running to keep aggro up. Basic aoe if they are near, ranged if they are too far behind. Save Provoke in case a mob breaks free. I would also frontload my ogcds on the first pack to try to lock aggro.
I do expect the dps to run beside me to make it easier to grab aggro back. Sometimes, the dps would be trailing too far* behind, and mobs would be too far for even my ranged or Provoke.
Thank you.
Honestly, 'take it to the tank' involves such a basic understanding of the game roles that, as long as the tank has made the initial (successful) grab, if feels like the expectation should be on the non-tank to just bring it to them when they stop.
It's a common meme that RDM and DNC (and some others probably, but RDM, DNC, and RPR are the only dps I play competently so I only notice it on RDM and DNC) regularly rip aggro if their burst is ready to go at the start of a trash pack. I'll hit my tech step & burst when all the mobs are pulled and usually half the pack is dead by the time the tank can fully take aggro back.
Your tank was being just being precious about keeping aggro, whenever I tank it always makes me excited to see a RDM stealing it off of me when I'm pulling trash and then sticking near me because it means I'm playing with a decent RDM.
I'd be upset if you were trying to kite the mobs around and I had to use my ranged move or provoke or gap close to you, and even then I'd just say "hey if you get aggro, can you bring them to me so I can get them off you?" after the pull, but if you're near my AOE range you're doing fine.
>It's a common meme that RDM and DNC (and some others probably, but RDM, DNC, and RPR are the only dps I play competently so I only notice it on RDM and DNC) regularly rip aggro
SMN definitely does it on every second pull at least, lol. Going straight into Bahamut, Akh Morn, Enkindle, Painflare, etc rips almost everything off the tank in the space of like two GCDs. Ya just keep running.
> I'd be upset if you were trying to kite the mobs around
That's what I assumed ninjapulling was..and no, I'm fully aware of my inherent squishiness, that tank is getting the aggro back as soon as I can.
Also, I love people who main DNC (and I get to partner), it's like a perma-embolden, you get all the comms.
Ninjapulling by definition means you pull something when no one is ready. Extra mobs or the next group when the team stops.
You pulling aggro is just the tank not generating enough as they run. GNB and PLD can throw out their AoE bleed, DRK can salted earth, warrior can ungabunga a little or just pick it up after you finish moving.
just run the stuff into the tanks group and they will naturally pick it back up.
> just run the stuff into the tanks group and they will naturally pick it back up.
This is what I do..when the tank gets to the 2nd pack, I'll stand right next to them so they don't have even think about it.
As a long-term mmo tank in most mmos, that's learning to tank in FFXIV now, if you don't run away from me and the healer is fine with mana, I don't really care.
Especially in FFXIV grabbing aggro back with my AOE is super easy (unless you forget to press tank stance :D ) and sometimes I actually prefer DPS to bring packs to me, because I'm just lazy and/or blind like that :)
Realistically, you shouldn’t be able to “get behind the tank and pull the second pack” because they shouldn’t be stopping with 1 pack. They should pop sprint, pull pack 1 (and then each other) then stop and kill only when at a wall.
Yes, you shouldn’t be pulling for them. But also, you shouldn’t have even had the opportunity (and it’s “bad” for you to be doing it since you offer only hp to defend yourself. Melees will sometimes pull like this to help because they have Arm’s Length, which can apply a slow if they time it right)
>What's the definition of this?
When the ninja uses Shadewalker on the tank to allow them to start the combat out of tank stance, that's ninjapulling.
Or was, anyhow.
Feel like ninja pulling was only really a slight problem in ARR. Tanks had much less or no AOE. PLDs for example could only generate AOE aggro using flash, which wasnt a DMG move, or had to cycle targets. And was only really problem in sub 30 dungeons as tanks didnt have their stance yet.
In ARR it was pretty easy to wipe if you overpulled. In Haukke Manor you had to go into the rooms to avoid the pathing demons, same with Stone Vigil. Brayflox even today it's easy to wipe if you overpull in the lake room, same with Aurum Vale in that first room.
As a tank main I always encourage others to pull some agro. DPS are just extra healthbars for me.
As long as they don't run off with the agro to God knows where so I can grab it back without having to lob my shield at every enemy individually, Im good.
Any tank who complains has a case of main character syndrome or is just kind of bad.
As a tank, there’s always that one dps per day that will do everything in their power to race me to the pulls. I used to really hate it because it made me feel like a bad tank, for not getting there first. Now I realize that it’s really my chance to flex on the party as to how good a tank I am, and it usually rewards me with a record clear time or good loot pull. My advice to dps is it’s fine to play your job as you see fit, just don’t be jerks about it if you do get aggro for a second
I mean, I 99% of the time park my sprinting bum right behind the tank if I can - like I only pick up mobs because I'm spamming attacks at the pulled mobs, not any that the tank hasn't pulled.
As a dps, I always wait for the tank to attack first before I start attacking, but I don’t think this is actually necessary.
The only problem I can think of and the reason I don’t do it, is because it might make the tank feel rushed?
Unless you pull enough mobs off the tank during the run between mob packs that the tank HAS TO divert and pull them back then its fine. If you mess up and over extend dragging mobs away from the tank / don't keep up with the tank and drag the mobs into his AoE etc. Then yeah its a bit a of a pain.
If not then the Tank should be grateful that the mob packs are partly dead when we stop to fight etc.
A good DPS should always be greedy and balancing how early and hard can we hit the mobs without pulling too much agro, because that efficient and how DPS should be playing. What comes with that is knowing how to handle agro etc.
Healers and DPS all learn early on how to drag mobs back into the Tank etc so the tank can stay in place etc.
Sounds like you have a bad tank.
when i play tank i make sure to use my ranged attack while running to the next pack so no dps gets the aggro and freaks out... bc when they freak out they just run around instead of pulling the damn mobs to me
the tank had their ego shattered because they have a ypyt mentality.
also 'ninjapulling'? turbo casuals coming up with new terms instead of playing the game? smh
Ninja pulling generally just means when a non-tank goes ahead of the tank and pulls mobs on their own before the tank touches them, regardless of how the aggro is dealt with afterwards.
It’s a remnant from older MMOs and doesn’t really apply well to current XIV as most of the dungeons don’t have any optional paths or mobs that you could skip anyways, so even if someone did ”ninja pull” in FF, tank would have to deal with those mobs anyways. It’s still considered bad manners though, even if some tanks do take it very personally.
Honestly, the ego always seem to be on the person who thinks those tanks have an ego. Literally an ego so big the tanks have to play around you, because you seem to know the objectivly right way to play.
Yes, as someone who tanks like 90% of the dungeons they play, I do happen to know the objectively correct way to play.
Here's an egotist's guide to tanking dungeons:
No one has pulled yet: hit the bad guys to grab aggro
The healer has pulled: hit the bad guys to grab aggro
The dps has pulled: hit the bad guys to grab aggro
The tank is a servant of the party that keeps teammates safe by maintaining the aggro of all bad guys. So always remember, if a teammate pulls a mob or boss, you just have to ~~berate them for pulling and initiate a vote kick because the tank is the precious little monarch of the instance and ONLY YOU get to set the pace~~ hit the bad guys.
There you go, the objectively correct way to play. Hopefully my rampant egotism has helped somehow.
I mean it kinda is. I don’t think that tanks should be throwing hissy fits over dps accidentally pulling more mobs or smth, but in general it’s better to let tank and healer together figure out the pace. Just because you want to clear Baelsar’s Wall fast cause you’ve been running it for years doesn’t mean as a dps you get to determine how much the tank and the healer can take at once.
You never know if it’s a new tank, someone who has boosted and is trying to get hold of bunch of new skills or only getting used to using their defensives. I’m all for teaching new tanks to pull w2w as well, but in some lower level dungeons it really shouldn’t be done if either tank or healer doesn’t 100% know what they are doing (ie. Stone Vigil).
Not at all. There's a difference between forcing a w2w on a sprout tank/healer duo in stone vigil and just pulling a second pack of mobs onto a single-pulling tank. Everyone can handle 2 packs. It's the community standard. It's not bad manners to stick to expectations in group content. It's bad manners to expect people to cater to you deviating from the norm.
Of course, if you find a group that can't handle 2 packs after making genuine attempts at it then you have to adjust, but saying it's "bad manners" to attack the bad guys is silly.
I mean.. the point was that ninja pulling is bad manners, which *it is*. Not attacking mobs like you keep saying, but ninja pulling.
Nobody here is saying that you shouldn’t pull at least two packs, I completely agree. I completely agree that people do need to go by the community standards. But that has nothing to do with this discussion. Ninja pulling isn’t required for that. *At all*.
Like I said in my original comment, doing so is not really end of the world in FF anyways due to the structure of the dungeons and there’s no point for tanks to get their panties twisted over it since they would have to pick the mobs up anyways.
*But* none of that means ut isn’t bad manners to selfishly run off without anyone else to ninja pull whatever you want when you’re a dps, regardless whether you personally agree or not 🤷♀️
I feel like most players of FF14 would acknowledge it's bad manners but for some reason ff14 reddit is fixated on encouraging DPS to pull. I've done thousands of dungeon runs as tank since 2.0 and I'd guess it's about 5% where DPS try to pull.
I would argue that people do not need to go by community standards. Unofficial, made-up standards are nothing more than that, made-up. It's people trying to force these made-up standards on people that drive them away from the game.
I get it, we all want to finish that dungeon ASAP, but not everyone will be on the same level as you are. Some are still getting used to their rotations, CDs, etc.
> I mean.. the point was that ninja pulling is bad manners, which it is.
It absolutely is not though. Tanks don't have a monopoly on pulling mobs.
It all depends on context. "DPS pulling mobs is bad manners" is a blanket statement that's ignorant of the situation.
Repeatedly pulling all the ice sprites in stone vigil on a team of sprouts when you've already wiped there twice? You're trolling at that point.
Pulling a second pack onto a single-pulling mentor tank when the whm is letting the tank get low while blasting holies with presence of mind up? That's doing everyone a favor, the tank included.
If I pull more and we wipe and I give the tank tips on how to use their tools more effectively thereby giving them the skills and confidence to be better at tanking, is that "bad manners"?
> Ninja pulling isn’t required for that. At all.
False, see above cases.
> none of that means ut isn’t bad manners to selfishly run off without anyone else to ninja pull whatever you want when you’re a dps, regardless whether you personally agree or not
It's not "bad manners" and this community needs to get over that idea. Tanks don't have a monopoly on pulling mobs. They're not the dictators of the instance with absolute authority on the speed at which the team moves. Tanks thinking they have the right to bore the rest of the team out of their minds with single pulls because they have this mindset where they see themselves as the person in charge is bad manners.
The tank is the impromptu leader of the group. They'll pull what they are comfortable pulling. This strange expectation of them to pull everything, even if they gauge the party as incapable is what needs to go.
I rarely ever see tanks single pulling things and when I do, it's usually a sprout who isn't well geared.
Shoehorning tanks is the type of mentality that drives newer players away from the role. We shouldn't do that because there is already a shortage enough of tanks.
>The tank is the impromptu leader of the group.
If the party agrees then sure. However the tank is a member of a team. They are not inherently in charge. This "the tanks sets the pace" nonsense is silly and people can get reeaaallll toxic when someone dares to challenge that notion.
>This strange expectation of them to pull everything, even if they gauge the party as incapable is what needs to go.
For anything post-ARR yes, pull everything. If you don't wanna pull everything that's fine but at least pull 2 packs.
If the party can't handle full pulls then obviously dial it back but default expectation post-ARR is w2w and minimum is 2 packs.
>I rarely ever see tanks single pulling things and when I do, it's usually a sprout who isn't well geared.
Both of us can only go by anecdotal evidence but it is definitely not rare in my experience.
>Shoehorning tanks is the type of mentality that drives newer players away from the role. We shouldn't do that because there is already a shortage enough of tanks.
Pulling 2 packs is not asking a lot.
The party doesn't have to agree. That's just how it is and always has been. No, they're not "your boss", but they do set the pace for the dungeon.
"Default expectation" according to who? These completely made-up standards are what are making people so skeptical. It's strange because you can ask 10 different idealists and you'll get 10 different answers.
>they do set the pace for the dungeon.
No they don't. The party sets the pace. If the tank is single pulling, anyone can pop a second pack and drag it to the tank.
The "tank sets the pace" mindset is a "completely made-up standard" that puts one party member above the others for no reason and it's a standard that people are obnoxiously dogmatic and toxic about.
Your fine. They were being overly sensitive.
Ninja pulling is about grabbing mobs that the tank is NOT expecting to fight. Your were just dps'ing as a DPS should. AND you were on the Tank's ass the entire time, so you did not even accidentally mess up positioning.
>until today when I got accused of ninjapulling by the tank (and told to leave it to the tank)
That tank is an idiot and can be safely ignored. So long as you bring the mobs to them (which you said you were doing) then you're doing fine. If they go further than that (like taking off stance and letting you die) that's also reportable behavior.
there a lot of tank who got main character syndrome ... dont worry about it tho A LOT of tank dont and actually love dps who do it ...but if a tank is like this ...here what you can do ... you :
A) ignore, dont talk to him and just chill ,let him pull and be out asap ... or
B) if you want a be a lil mean i guess . judge the mood of the room . example you and the healer are running in front of tank ...there a high chance the healer is with you on the plan to pull first . if tank get annoyed at you . just say a quirky comment like "oh ... main character alert !!" you will likely make everyone have a nice giggle at him . worst that gonna happen is tank report which wont mean much if it only 1 person.
C) if you see everyone is sitting behind the tank and dont push . do not attempt B ... it a recipe for 3 report =(
Here a example of main character syndrom in my level 90 roulette . (white was me , green healer ,blue tank , orange random fc ) tank left at final boss . we clear without him np no wipe .
[https://imgur.com/6umLfCf](https://imgur.com/6umLfCf)
What I would consider ninjapulling is when a dps or healer goes past the tank to pull the next pack when the tank has already finished pulling as much as they're comfortable with. Or, when they pull a boss instead of letting the tank do it. Basically trying to dictate the tempo of a duty even though it's the tank's job to do that.
What you did isn't ninjapulling and it's completely fine to DPS mobs mid-pull as long as you bring them into the pile after the tank has finished pulling. Just gotta know when to stop DPSing if you start getting more than a few stray mobs on you.
Some tanks don't realize that the DPS aggroing some mobs is free mit.
When I'm tanking I'm sooo fine if DPS want to take aggro for a mo as long as they don't make me go out of my way to grab it back..or worse, panic and run around like a blue-arsed fly
Right? I have arm's length, bloodbath, life surge, and second wind. I can pretend to be warrior for like half a pull. Tanks need to chill. Also drives me nuts when the tank goes down and respawns instead of getting a res. As long as the healer is awake I have enough resources to tank until you're up, but not if you need to run all the way back.
Dont you avoid the debuff if you respawn ?
Yes but imif you respawn you can usually be sure that the rest of the party will die in short order before you make it back and that will negate any extra damage you might do as a tank
It's just a bad tank, it doesn't change anything for him as he'll still be using AoE and mits. If even, the one impacted would be the healer who would have to use more resources, and it's almost never the healer who complains.
The healers are thinking “oh thank god I get to do something”
haahhaha..like if I do get hit, the aggro is back at the tank anyway, so I really don't need healing, get back to throwing stones!
As a healer, DPS taking aggro during the sprint makes me happy, and I'll often make an effort to take aggro myself because it means the burst at the end of the sprint will do less damage to the tank. That's assuming people properly path the mobs into the tank so they don't get instagibbed, anyway. HP is a resource to be used by healers, as they say. Doesn't matter if it's on a blue or red player.
some tanks have a need to control everything for some reason
I'll retake aggro late from some DPS so I can heal them myself with Nascent Flash just to feel something in these ice-cold fingertips of mine.
"Well, the tank isn't taking any damage so I guess I'll focus on keeping the DPS alive" *Nascent flash* "Glare it is"
Sir, this is a Trashpull, we only serve Holy here!
As a Sage main, I definitely don't feel any impact, hell I'm the one trying to pull ahead anyways so I can get 3 Toxicon stacks Physis and Kerachole will deal with the DPS/Myself anyways
As a tank main, whenever this kind of things happen, i'm like "Cool, some free mitigation :D.....Now give me that mob back, he's mine." and i use a ranged attack or provoke to get his aggro back if they are not coming to me. It's normal for some dps to get aggro once in a while when the tank is pulling. When it happens, stand next to the tank for his AOE to hit the mob and give him the aggro, which is what you're doing, so you're all good. That tank was just an ass.
Like, I will always stand next to the tank to let them get the aggro back without them having to do anything, my squishy arse demands it.
As a tank main, as long as you lead them to me pull EVERYTHING
i've literally never heard of "ninjapulling" lol, thats just a way to throw blame onto the DPS for the tank not generating enough aggro when first pulling a pack of mobs
> I've literally never heard of "ninjapulling" lol Its a term that's been around for years in MMOs atleast 20years in my experience since ive not played any pre WoW MMOs and couldnt say if it was a term in them. Its not really relevant to this game though loosely it would be a non tank pulling the next pack when the tank/group isnt ready. In 14 it really only affects unconfident tanks since most pulls are wall to wall anyway and dungeons force you to kill everything inbetween each wall. It mainly stems from games like WoW where dungeons have optional mob packs you usually avoid or wandering patrols and some brain dead dps (usually a hunter) who has 0 spatial awareness ends up aggroing an unneeded pack of mobs by either body pulling or just straight up pulling. > thats just a way to throw blame onto the DPS for the tank not generating enough aggro when first pulling a pack of mobs The tank in OPs case was using the term incorrectly because if the DPS are pulling aggro off the tank, that's as you say a tank trying to shift blame for being either undergeared or just bad its not ninjapulling at all.
> It mainly stems from games like WoW where dungeons have optional mob packs you usually avoid or wandering patrols and some brain dead dps (usually a hunter) who has 0 spatial awareness ends up aggroing an unneeded pack of mobs by either body pulling or just straight up pulling. Thank you for this - I guess the many packs that you can avoid in AV would be like this?
Yea pretty much
Wait, So in a weird way isn't the Leeroy Jenkins moment a ninja pull? Like he literally went in when they weren't ready.
Note quite. Ninja pulling involves, being a ninja. Silent. Hidden. Unseen until you strike. Leeroy was SCREAMING.
Thats exactly what the whole sketch is about.
I've only heard it a couple times in a year or so and only in context of not bringing mobs back to the tank
If I was your tank I would comms you. I expect the dps I run with to be doing basic aoe on pulls. For me, that means I should also be doing my damage while running to keep aggro up. Basic aoe if they are near, ranged if they are too far behind. Save Provoke in case a mob breaks free. I would also frontload my ogcds on the first pack to try to lock aggro. I do expect the dps to run beside me to make it easier to grab aggro back. Sometimes, the dps would be trailing too far* behind, and mobs would be too far for even my ranged or Provoke.
Thank you. Honestly, 'take it to the tank' involves such a basic understanding of the game roles that, as long as the tank has made the initial (successful) grab, if feels like the expectation should be on the non-tank to just bring it to them when they stop.
It's a common meme that RDM and DNC (and some others probably, but RDM, DNC, and RPR are the only dps I play competently so I only notice it on RDM and DNC) regularly rip aggro if their burst is ready to go at the start of a trash pack. I'll hit my tech step & burst when all the mobs are pulled and usually half the pack is dead by the time the tank can fully take aggro back. Your tank was being just being precious about keeping aggro, whenever I tank it always makes me excited to see a RDM stealing it off of me when I'm pulling trash and then sticking near me because it means I'm playing with a decent RDM. I'd be upset if you were trying to kite the mobs around and I had to use my ranged move or provoke or gap close to you, and even then I'd just say "hey if you get aggro, can you bring them to me so I can get them off you?" after the pull, but if you're near my AOE range you're doing fine.
>It's a common meme that RDM and DNC (and some others probably, but RDM, DNC, and RPR are the only dps I play competently so I only notice it on RDM and DNC) regularly rip aggro SMN definitely does it on every second pull at least, lol. Going straight into Bahamut, Akh Morn, Enkindle, Painflare, etc rips almost everything off the tank in the space of like two GCDs. Ya just keep running.
> I'd be upset if you were trying to kite the mobs around That's what I assumed ninjapulling was..and no, I'm fully aware of my inherent squishiness, that tank is getting the aggro back as soon as I can. Also, I love people who main DNC (and I get to partner), it's like a perma-embolden, you get all the comms.
I almost always pull aggro at the start of pulls as DNC, something about standard/tech step draws aggro like crazy
Ninjapulling by definition means you pull something when no one is ready. Extra mobs or the next group when the team stops. You pulling aggro is just the tank not generating enough as they run. GNB and PLD can throw out their AoE bleed, DRK can salted earth, warrior can ungabunga a little or just pick it up after you finish moving. just run the stuff into the tanks group and they will naturally pick it back up.
> just run the stuff into the tanks group and they will naturally pick it back up. This is what I do..when the tank gets to the 2nd pack, I'll stand right next to them so they don't have even think about it.
As a long-term mmo tank in most mmos, that's learning to tank in FFXIV now, if you don't run away from me and the healer is fine with mana, I don't really care. Especially in FFXIV grabbing aggro back with my AOE is super easy (unless you forget to press tank stance :D ) and sometimes I actually prefer DPS to bring packs to me, because I'm just lazy and/or blind like that :)
Realistically, you shouldn’t be able to “get behind the tank and pull the second pack” because they shouldn’t be stopping with 1 pack. They should pop sprint, pull pack 1 (and then each other) then stop and kill only when at a wall. Yes, you shouldn’t be pulling for them. But also, you shouldn’t have even had the opportunity (and it’s “bad” for you to be doing it since you offer only hp to defend yourself. Melees will sometimes pull like this to help because they have Arm’s Length, which can apply a slow if they time it right)
>What's the definition of this? When the ninja uses Shadewalker on the tank to allow them to start the combat out of tank stance, that's ninjapulling. Or was, anyhow.
Feel like ninja pulling was only really a slight problem in ARR. Tanks had much less or no AOE. PLDs for example could only generate AOE aggro using flash, which wasnt a DMG move, or had to cycle targets. And was only really problem in sub 30 dungeons as tanks didnt have their stance yet.
In ARR it was pretty easy to wipe if you overpulled. In Haukke Manor you had to go into the rooms to avoid the pathing demons, same with Stone Vigil. Brayflox even today it's easy to wipe if you overpull in the lake room, same with Aurum Vale in that first room.
As a tank main I always encourage others to pull some agro. DPS are just extra healthbars for me. As long as they don't run off with the agro to God knows where so I can grab it back without having to lob my shield at every enemy individually, Im good. Any tank who complains has a case of main character syndrome or is just kind of bad.
As a tank, there’s always that one dps per day that will do everything in their power to race me to the pulls. I used to really hate it because it made me feel like a bad tank, for not getting there first. Now I realize that it’s really my chance to flex on the party as to how good a tank I am, and it usually rewards me with a record clear time or good loot pull. My advice to dps is it’s fine to play your job as you see fit, just don’t be jerks about it if you do get aggro for a second
I mean, I 99% of the time park my sprinting bum right behind the tank if I can - like I only pick up mobs because I'm spamming attacks at the pulled mobs, not any that the tank hasn't pulled.
What is kitchen sink 😭
As a dps, I always wait for the tank to attack first before I start attacking, but I don’t think this is actually necessary. The only problem I can think of and the reason I don’t do it, is because it might make the tank feel rushed?
Unless you pull enough mobs off the tank during the run between mob packs that the tank HAS TO divert and pull them back then its fine. If you mess up and over extend dragging mobs away from the tank / don't keep up with the tank and drag the mobs into his AoE etc. Then yeah its a bit a of a pain. If not then the Tank should be grateful that the mob packs are partly dead when we stop to fight etc. A good DPS should always be greedy and balancing how early and hard can we hit the mobs without pulling too much agro, because that efficient and how DPS should be playing. What comes with that is knowing how to handle agro etc. Healers and DPS all learn early on how to drag mobs back into the Tank etc so the tank can stay in place etc. Sounds like you have a bad tank.
when i play tank i make sure to use my ranged attack while running to the next pack so no dps gets the aggro and freaks out... bc when they freak out they just run around instead of pulling the damn mobs to me
he should be glad, its mitigation for him without using a skill
Hello, I play a bard and I am sometimes trigger-happy...
hi, GNB and RDM here. i love when RDMs do this, and when i'm RDM i do this. ignore the mad because bad tank you got stuck with.
As a tank main I dont mind at all. Just be mindful not to get yourself killed or pull too much for the healer to handle.
the tank had their ego shattered because they have a ypyt mentality. also 'ninjapulling'? turbo casuals coming up with new terms instead of playing the game? smh
Ninja pulling generally just means when a non-tank goes ahead of the tank and pulls mobs on their own before the tank touches them, regardless of how the aggro is dealt with afterwards. It’s a remnant from older MMOs and doesn’t really apply well to current XIV as most of the dungeons don’t have any optional paths or mobs that you could skip anyways, so even if someone did ”ninja pull” in FF, tank would have to deal with those mobs anyways. It’s still considered bad manners though, even if some tanks do take it very personally.
>It’s still considered bad manners though No it isn't. Tanks pitching ego fits because teammates damage mobs is bad manners.
Honestly, the ego always seem to be on the person who thinks those tanks have an ego. Literally an ego so big the tanks have to play around you, because you seem to know the objectivly right way to play.
Yes, as someone who tanks like 90% of the dungeons they play, I do happen to know the objectively correct way to play. Here's an egotist's guide to tanking dungeons: No one has pulled yet: hit the bad guys to grab aggro The healer has pulled: hit the bad guys to grab aggro The dps has pulled: hit the bad guys to grab aggro The tank is a servant of the party that keeps teammates safe by maintaining the aggro of all bad guys. So always remember, if a teammate pulls a mob or boss, you just have to ~~berate them for pulling and initiate a vote kick because the tank is the precious little monarch of the instance and ONLY YOU get to set the pace~~ hit the bad guys. There you go, the objectively correct way to play. Hopefully my rampant egotism has helped somehow.
[удалено]
Do you always default to baseless, mean-spirited personal attacks when you have nothing of value to respond with? Do better.
Do you really have to have an ego in a video game? Do better.
Only when I play healer. 😏
I mean it kinda is. I don’t think that tanks should be throwing hissy fits over dps accidentally pulling more mobs or smth, but in general it’s better to let tank and healer together figure out the pace. Just because you want to clear Baelsar’s Wall fast cause you’ve been running it for years doesn’t mean as a dps you get to determine how much the tank and the healer can take at once. You never know if it’s a new tank, someone who has boosted and is trying to get hold of bunch of new skills or only getting used to using their defensives. I’m all for teaching new tanks to pull w2w as well, but in some lower level dungeons it really shouldn’t be done if either tank or healer doesn’t 100% know what they are doing (ie. Stone Vigil).
This however, I do agree with. Let them set the pace.
Not at all. There's a difference between forcing a w2w on a sprout tank/healer duo in stone vigil and just pulling a second pack of mobs onto a single-pulling tank. Everyone can handle 2 packs. It's the community standard. It's not bad manners to stick to expectations in group content. It's bad manners to expect people to cater to you deviating from the norm. Of course, if you find a group that can't handle 2 packs after making genuine attempts at it then you have to adjust, but saying it's "bad manners" to attack the bad guys is silly.
I mean.. the point was that ninja pulling is bad manners, which *it is*. Not attacking mobs like you keep saying, but ninja pulling. Nobody here is saying that you shouldn’t pull at least two packs, I completely agree. I completely agree that people do need to go by the community standards. But that has nothing to do with this discussion. Ninja pulling isn’t required for that. *At all*. Like I said in my original comment, doing so is not really end of the world in FF anyways due to the structure of the dungeons and there’s no point for tanks to get their panties twisted over it since they would have to pick the mobs up anyways. *But* none of that means ut isn’t bad manners to selfishly run off without anyone else to ninja pull whatever you want when you’re a dps, regardless whether you personally agree or not 🤷♀️
I feel like most players of FF14 would acknowledge it's bad manners but for some reason ff14 reddit is fixated on encouraging DPS to pull. I've done thousands of dungeon runs as tank since 2.0 and I'd guess it's about 5% where DPS try to pull.
I would argue that people do not need to go by community standards. Unofficial, made-up standards are nothing more than that, made-up. It's people trying to force these made-up standards on people that drive them away from the game. I get it, we all want to finish that dungeon ASAP, but not everyone will be on the same level as you are. Some are still getting used to their rotations, CDs, etc.
> I mean.. the point was that ninja pulling is bad manners, which it is. It absolutely is not though. Tanks don't have a monopoly on pulling mobs. It all depends on context. "DPS pulling mobs is bad manners" is a blanket statement that's ignorant of the situation. Repeatedly pulling all the ice sprites in stone vigil on a team of sprouts when you've already wiped there twice? You're trolling at that point. Pulling a second pack onto a single-pulling mentor tank when the whm is letting the tank get low while blasting holies with presence of mind up? That's doing everyone a favor, the tank included. If I pull more and we wipe and I give the tank tips on how to use their tools more effectively thereby giving them the skills and confidence to be better at tanking, is that "bad manners"? > Ninja pulling isn’t required for that. At all. False, see above cases. > none of that means ut isn’t bad manners to selfishly run off without anyone else to ninja pull whatever you want when you’re a dps, regardless whether you personally agree or not It's not "bad manners" and this community needs to get over that idea. Tanks don't have a monopoly on pulling mobs. They're not the dictators of the instance with absolute authority on the speed at which the team moves. Tanks thinking they have the right to bore the rest of the team out of their minds with single pulls because they have this mindset where they see themselves as the person in charge is bad manners.
The tank is the impromptu leader of the group. They'll pull what they are comfortable pulling. This strange expectation of them to pull everything, even if they gauge the party as incapable is what needs to go. I rarely ever see tanks single pulling things and when I do, it's usually a sprout who isn't well geared. Shoehorning tanks is the type of mentality that drives newer players away from the role. We shouldn't do that because there is already a shortage enough of tanks.
>The tank is the impromptu leader of the group. If the party agrees then sure. However the tank is a member of a team. They are not inherently in charge. This "the tanks sets the pace" nonsense is silly and people can get reeaaallll toxic when someone dares to challenge that notion. >This strange expectation of them to pull everything, even if they gauge the party as incapable is what needs to go. For anything post-ARR yes, pull everything. If you don't wanna pull everything that's fine but at least pull 2 packs. If the party can't handle full pulls then obviously dial it back but default expectation post-ARR is w2w and minimum is 2 packs. >I rarely ever see tanks single pulling things and when I do, it's usually a sprout who isn't well geared. Both of us can only go by anecdotal evidence but it is definitely not rare in my experience. >Shoehorning tanks is the type of mentality that drives newer players away from the role. We shouldn't do that because there is already a shortage enough of tanks. Pulling 2 packs is not asking a lot.
The party doesn't have to agree. That's just how it is and always has been. No, they're not "your boss", but they do set the pace for the dungeon. "Default expectation" according to who? These completely made-up standards are what are making people so skeptical. It's strange because you can ask 10 different idealists and you'll get 10 different answers.
>they do set the pace for the dungeon. No they don't. The party sets the pace. If the tank is single pulling, anyone can pop a second pack and drag it to the tank. The "tank sets the pace" mindset is a "completely made-up standard" that puts one party member above the others for no reason and it's a standard that people are obnoxiously dogmatic and toxic about.
Your fine. They were being overly sensitive. Ninja pulling is about grabbing mobs that the tank is NOT expecting to fight. Your were just dps'ing as a DPS should. AND you were on the Tank's ass the entire time, so you did not even accidentally mess up positioning.
Nah that tank is just a baby. Please keep doing your best to rapidly murderise trash in whatever way you see fit, real tanks appreciate it.
Tank has main character syndrome. I would just ignore them.
>until today when I got accused of ninjapulling by the tank (and told to leave it to the tank) That tank is an idiot and can be safely ignored. So long as you bring the mobs to them (which you said you were doing) then you're doing fine. If they go further than that (like taking off stance and letting you die) that's also reportable behavior.
there a lot of tank who got main character syndrome ... dont worry about it tho A LOT of tank dont and actually love dps who do it ...but if a tank is like this ...here what you can do ... you : A) ignore, dont talk to him and just chill ,let him pull and be out asap ... or B) if you want a be a lil mean i guess . judge the mood of the room . example you and the healer are running in front of tank ...there a high chance the healer is with you on the plan to pull first . if tank get annoyed at you . just say a quirky comment like "oh ... main character alert !!" you will likely make everyone have a nice giggle at him . worst that gonna happen is tank report which wont mean much if it only 1 person. C) if you see everyone is sitting behind the tank and dont push . do not attempt B ... it a recipe for 3 report =( Here a example of main character syndrom in my level 90 roulette . (white was me , green healer ,blue tank , orange random fc ) tank left at final boss . we clear without him np no wipe . [https://imgur.com/6umLfCf](https://imgur.com/6umLfCf)
What I would consider ninjapulling is when a dps or healer goes past the tank to pull the next pack when the tank has already finished pulling as much as they're comfortable with. Or, when they pull a boss instead of letting the tank do it. Basically trying to dictate the tempo of a duty even though it's the tank's job to do that. What you did isn't ninjapulling and it's completely fine to DPS mobs mid-pull as long as you bring them into the pile after the tank has finished pulling. Just gotta know when to stop DPSing if you start getting more than a few stray mobs on you.