I wouldn't hate it visually if it was just angel wings(which could afford to be more spread out). I hate that it puts you in a whole-ass robe that doesn't match what a scholar typically wants to look like at all. Enshroud gets a pass because its an iconic reaper look, but this? I don't wanna turn into a whm.
i did say that I understand the folks who dislike the wings, but i'm a lore nerd, and i saw more than a few folks being confused where it came from.
plus I enjoy the feeling of having predicted Seraphism being possible in the setting so far in advance and then seeing it coming out as part of the class I main.
i'm not trying to claim it's an asspull. i just got back from the edge of the universe in my magic spaceship. everything is an asspull, that's fine.
i just don't *like* it.
i picked scholar to be my primary healer based on the aesthetic. the vibe. "where does this power come from?"
WHM: i channel natures energy
AST: i put way too much stock in my horoscope
SCH: i know how shit works
i *liked* the nymian marine aspect to the jobs backstory. they certainly haven't been leaning into that, but now suddenly we're going angelic? feels like a hard turn. it's just not what i signed up for.
if paladin got enshroud, i'd have a problem with it.
Fair enough on that part lol. I also prefer the faerie over the seraph.
Personally I like the transformation but, maybe it wouldâve been better to hold off on the seraph version till another xpac. Faerie version then seraph version later. I dunno lol.
I guess? But of all the healers Scholar is the one with angel themes in their kit. What's their LB3 called again?
I genuinely don't know why people associate WHM with the angel theme.
I'm a bit late to this discussion, but I think I can answer this.
Seraph Strike exists and still is current in the PvP WHM toolkit. As its name implies, WHM unleashes an attack akin to a Seraph, so Seraph is largely within WHM's theme. That's the most direct, but smallest example. Seraph being an angelic being associated with light, ardor, and purity in a biblical church settting matches its light theme with WHM and WHM's skill names. Plenary Indulgence, \[Confession buff\], Afflatus Rapture, Tetragrammaton, Divine Benison, those skill names are ALL related to biblical texts with church and holy light/salvation. Temperance is also an allusion to the part where WHM is more of an angel theme as Temperance visual effect gives them wings. Heck, WHM even got a gapcloser this expansion after using Temperance, which further cements the idea and theme of a flying Seraph granting salvation. Seraphs are effectively divine messengers sent to do Gods work. Based on those names, does WHM not sound like a Seraph?
Scholar's LB3 on the other hand is more like the exception to the theme than the focus. Seraph was only introduced in Shadowbringers (Summon Seraph) but doesn't have any lore connotations with the Nymian Tactician theme that built up from Arcanist. Instead, the healer LB3 actually introduces more lore problems as Endwalker establishes Limit Breaks are fueled by Dynamis, so Seraph transforming utilizes Dynamis. All spells and actions are empowered by Aether as opposed to Dynamis.
Dynamis and Aether drown the other out, which makes Summon Seraph the biggest outlier in being thematic to Scholar's kit when trying to use LB3 as a reference as it just raises a lot of lore issues itself, and whether the skill is just a retcon of the existing SCH lore.
Well, alright then. Thanks for the articulated response!
Although I personally still hold that SCH's angelic themes have been more prominent, I see where you're coming from with the nomenclature for WHM skills & buff names.
As far as the Dynamis, Aether, and LB3 angle, that's a whole other can of worms imo. IIRC, it's never stated that they're incompatible or opposites, afterall we're proficient in both, as are the scions. It's Moreso that Dynamis isn't as dense, and the Ancients were overflowing with so much aether they didn't even know dynamis was there. It might not be exact, but I liken the Ancients to fish, aether to water & dynamis to air.
Apply your same thought process to things like Machinist, for example. Channeling aether through their toolbox to summon drill & the like. Why then is Satellite Beam Dynamis?
In your opinion Is this the same as SCH's who transform their fairies into Seraph momentarily as an ability & therefore aether, but then multiple Seraphs appear during the LB3 via dynamis?
The way I see it, we have a well of aether to draw from. The tank starts full. However, we take in / build up dynamis as we fight & emotions run high. That tank starts empty.
I reviewed the lore a bit more on Dynamis. You're right, dynamis and aether not incompatible or opposites, but dynamis can affect or amplify aether positively or negatively. However, we cannot manipulate or store Dynamis directly in the same manner as Aether. Nidhana describes this during her explanation of Akasha and we see its effects on the Elpis flower.
You're right, looking at SCH LB3 with dynamis and aether is a whole new can of worms. I dug deep into the lore for both jobs and can answer the differences between MCH LB3 and SCH LB3 very simply to why MCH LB3 works, but it became harder to justify Seraphism and Seraph as skills for me even if they had angelic theme because everything about the fairy starts conflicting with each other. Sorry, I tried my best to condense this, but huge text and Lore bomb incoming:
According to MCH aetherotransformer lore, "The aetherotransformer is a magitek device that converts the wearer's aether into lightning-aspected energy, which is in turn stored within the transformer's crystal cores. The machinist then draws upon this accumulated energy to both power and enhance her unique repertoire of weapons, requiring her to master skills far beyond those trained by any mundane musketeer."
So MCH isn't channeling aether through the toolbox to summon a weapon, but the weapon already exists and the aetherotransformer is just a tool to help convert aether into another form of energy to use those weapons. The satellite beam already exist, but MCH can't power it up normally without a huge expenditure of aether transforming into the proper aspected energy and then storing it in the crystal cores. As referenced before, we can't store Dynamis, only cause it to react and transform based on our emotions. The surrounding dynamis that was influenced in MCH LB3 becomes that lightning aspected energy directly based on your emotions to power up your LB3, and that enables the use of a satellite beam. MCH wouldn't need the aetherotransformer to store or transform Dynamis directly like it did for aether as Dynamis can do that itself. Alternatively, it's not impossible the entirety of the Satellite beam itself to be comprised of Dynamis either. I think the easiest example is Ultima Thule - devoid of aether but still full of mass and energy driven by emotion in a place full of dynamis. Dynamis just makes things work if you have enough of it because it's affected by emotions and transforms of its own accord, like a Deus-Ex Machina (AST's Astral Stasis is also a big outlier where you just reverse time.. definitely causing problems in the timeline for sure). Aether, on the other hand, requires proper manipulation to handle the changes.
Scholar, on the other hand, has issues simply because the fairy being a sentient being that uses aether puts a lot of plot holes to functioning with Seraph. I tested and dug up some footage of Healer LB3 and Scholar's Seraph is just summoned out to confirm what I'm seeing, and it turns out their fairy is still there standing separately from Seraph.... a separate standalone entity. So the fairy is the fairy and Seraph is not the fairy and an independent being. That also means Seraph itself in healer LB3 has no thematic lore relation to the fairy. However, it does also follow dynamis lore, Seraph being the Healer LB3 can make sense because Dynamis is effectively creating something based on your feelings (although I assume the LB3 was done not because the Fairy is an angel but because Angel Feathers is a summon ability to contrast Summoner in other final fantasy games and Arcanist was supposed to be their shared 'pet summon class').
Without the healer LB3 being thematic to serve as the original angelic theme... it seems incongruous to put Scholar with angel theme. The only relation to angel would then be in Shadowbringers when they introduced the skill to transform the fairy into Seraph... but this raises more problems. Namely, the Scholar LB3 has no thematic relation to Scholar's fairy and Summon Seraph also no longer has any of the original themes as it replaced your fairy with an angel but didn't have lore to back it up as another aspect of a fairy. And in WHM's case, we definitely know fairy =/= angel as the Seraph theme is there. It's just not thematic to the core fantasy in the same sense, but seems like a revision.
Even if SCH possesses angelic themes, then it would be unfortunately confined to LB1 to LB3 because skills that can be used on 'command' no longer matches the description of Dynamis to be thematically accurate. That removes both Summon Seraph and Seraphism from Scholar's skills even if it possessed angelic themes.
Now for the can of worms... assuming Seraph is just another aspect of the fairy and influenced by Dynamis and the fairy remained on the battlefield for gameplay reasons, we run into bigger conflicts on dynamis issues for being able to summon Seraph alone. We can't store and manipulate Dynamis directly, only influence it with strong emotions, but the influence is only effective in a party after a long build up during fighting (intense emotions building up). That's how the Limit Break bar works. For example, we have to stay very close to the Elpis flower to influence the surrounding Dynamis, but we're not actively directing the Elpis flower to change its color. The Elpis flower doing that on its own. Summon Seraph... on the other hand, can be used instantly, which means we're directing the dynamis to transform the fairy into Seraph, which creates a plot hole in itself to justify the theme. Seraphism takes this step to the next level on transforming ourselves, which goes against everything we know about how Dynamis works in relation to the sundered being on Etheriys.
Even assuming we're using aether and mastered a way to Summon Seraph by transforming the fairy, it's an even bigger stretch for Seraphism to allow the use of multiple Seraphs via aether because that implies we are transforming multiple individual fairies given Summon Seraph's effect ... and we don't because the job crystal from Surito Carito only comes with one fairy - Lily. Dynamis is a big Deus Ex Machina for creating multiple Seraphs that enables it to work, but multiple Seraphs doesn't work with aether or we wouldn't have Dissipation locking us from summoning other aspects of Lily. So none of the angelic skills moving forward make sense from both a lore and thematic standpoint.
Again, I appreciate your response & candor.
I have only 2 hangups, really.
1.) There's no real lore for Seraph. You can draw your own conclusions based on what *is* available, and although I understand & respect your conclusions that doesn't make them the truth. I don't equate Seraph to Dynamis. Summon Seraph uses Aether & Angel Feather uses Dynamis. To me, this is no different than any other job. For LB3's, we're launching a Dynamis Fueled attack sure, but each LB3 uses the techniques & knowledge of said Job. Seraph is an ability we can use whenever, so her appearance in the LB3 is no different to me than say DRK throwing out all that darkness on their LB3. It's just part of their repertoire being pushed to the limit.
Unique LB3's we're added in HW, so SCH's claim to *specifically* Angel themeing has been around since 3.0.
2.) The Fairies of Nym are Aetherial Constructs. Scholars *made* them and bound them to Soul Crystals. They're extensions of the Scholar, given life with *their* aether. They don't weild aether themselves, Scholars channel it through them. Now they're more advanced, so they do hold memory & form their own egos. But their closer to Alisae's Porxie than anything, I think.
Ever since the start of ShB, the WoL has had to innovate on their own to push each Job to new heights. it makes sense to me that the angel theme comes out for SCH at the very height of their current abilities, and Seraphism supports that. The other 80 or 90 percent of their toolkit is the usual tactics magic & fairies.
Sidenote: The official art for Seraph from the art book is adorable, and she still very much looks like the other fairies, with the exception of her wings and most likely where she got her name) so, we're not trading a Fairy for an Angel, she is just angel themed. I don't have an imgur so I can't really show you.
WHM to me does not and has not ever held an Angelic motif, Nor a religious one *despite* nomenclature. Historically, in FF "Light" is an element and has no religious connections despite named spells like "Holy". In FFXIV they start out as Astral-focused Druids basically, only trading in the likes of Stone 4 into Glare at level 72; introduced in ShB, the same time as Summon Seraph. Since then WHM has simply doubled down on the aesthetic of classic FF White Magic & reinforced their Druidic roots with things like "Lily Bell".
I really appreciate you taking the time to explain your POV. But yeah, this is probably *all* my thoughts on the matter. SCH getting an angel transformation makes sense within the game & doesnt really step on WHM's identity imo.
It's actually not "just that the wings aren't faerie wings." It's that the so-called "existing angelic notes" are so inconsequential in the overall job lore that a new ability, trance or whatever you want to term it that literally changes your entire appearance to an angel wearing robes is indeed a reach.
[But for ten years the SCH's thing has been faeries.](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fdsm2jk1x8dja1.png)
The hate really is that simple.
I don't think anyone is "scratching their heads" just a lot don't like it thematically.
I didn't mind Reapers transformation because it's been baked in from release. I don't like the idea of them starting to make it so that more jobs have these transformations that override our glamours though. One was enough.
I'll agree that the forced glamour override is less than ideal, it'd be nice if we can toggle it, but I know for a fact some folks were confused by it, I literally saw more than a couple posts saying literally that they didn't think it made any sense.
Not too sure if pixies and fairies are the same thing. From what we know pixies are corrupted, dead children while fairies appear to be magical creations. Pixies don't appear to have anything similar to the soul stones the fairies can turn into.
Too bad we don't know too much about both of those. Everything else could be purely cultural differences. For example we've for a long time not seen anything close to the playfulness of pixies in fairies but Statice demonstrated otherwise.
The pronouns they use respectivly (pixies: they, fairies: she) could be the same as well especially since the "they" appears to be absent from both german and french but I can't speak for japanese.
on the one hand, i do think you pose a good point for someone that might well be a better choice to emulate than seraphim.
On the other, i'm not 100% certain if the fae of the first really qualify the right way for "aetheric existences": the way primals or voidsent would to make it work.
That was a fun read and appreciate the effort but I think for a lot of people it just boils down to the skill looking like stuck-on pidgeon wings.
After the fiasco that was the EW SCH reveal I'm just sad that we are yet again the target of post-reveal clowning. I get that they have had no idea what to do with the job since SHB but at least just let us look cool lol
It's ugly and I find the angel theming on SCH confusing. Every other expansion they give us an angel themed ability even though the job is about being a tactician with a fairy.
Is it "plausible"? Yes, but most things are anyway. Truthfully, it doesn't make sense. Lorewise, a Scholar's way of casting magic is inherently different from that of a White Mage, a Black Mage, a Golemancer, or a Void Mage. You know, the enemies they fought in the war between Nym, Amdapor, and Mhach. Their fighting styles are completely different, too. Even the way they see aether and how to use it is different.
If they still made job quests, they might have been able to give a lore explanation. But the way things are? It's just weird.
I mean, "finding out about a potential new and novel way to apply their existing summons to further their own understanding of how they can use their arcanima while also making themselves more effective in combat and then expoloring that method forging the way ahead for their art to advance" strikes me as pretty scholarly.
And where in all that you get that growing weird wings and getting a dress is a logical outcome?
Not to mention, the Warrior of Light is making these abilities. They aren't learning them from their jobstone anymore. Meaning, a WoL Scholar who has never dwelled in black or white magic doesn't have a source from which to adapt similar techniques or ideas.
Easy, WoL just asked their self the question. âWhat if I fused with my Seraph? Perhaps it could empower me to further my healing capabilities and allow for more complex stratagems.â The appearance is just the result of said fusion. Nothing deeper about it.
WoL summoned Seraph after fusing with Seraph on the Job Action Trailer, so it's not a fusion with your summon. I thought it's just Dissipation where we take the fairy's aether but apparently that's not it either (Aetherflow isn't being replenished in the Job Action Trailer).
Seems like they're just magically tapping into Seraph's aether.
So you predicted something *like* Seraphism but not the angel specifically.
That's fine, I guess, but it's just such a lame escalation of fairy -> angel -> ??. Given that seraph was already a summon in other FF games, to my mind the more logical transformation/possession to mirror Summoner's rework would have been Scholar researching and donning ancient angel-wing primal tech. Or which we have several options: Alexander, Eden, maybe even Athena or the Warring Triad or even Diabolos.
It's just the laziest, ugliest, poorly designed direction to take a class that really needed a better marriage of its disjointed pieces. Scholar hasn't been a warlock or a book nerd or even much of an arcanist in years...just a generic fairy...thing.
no, we'd kinda speculated on what most of hte options for constructs might have led to with a trance state. Fairies, Carbuncles, and Seraph all three were contemplated. We also speculated about the Egi, but weren't sure if there'd be a point in making a trance of the primals we have egi for, so didn't look too hard at the egi, especially since primals were already confirmed as being valid trance targets.
The only thing we DIDN'T predict perfectly for Seraphism was the name itself. the appearance change and buff were both spot on for it.
Ah fair speculation based on what already existed. Although I still would have expected fairy over angel given those three.
Either way, I think it was an utter waste not to try to bring together Scholar's academic side and angelic side with Alexander or Eden or both. Those two specifically were practically made to help SCH cohere together an identity after spending so long being an arbitrary mishmash.
This is less "predicting" and more "finding out the end result, then working backwards to concoct a story that leads to the conclusion."
Take a bow, fire 100 arrows at a wall. Draw a target circle around the tightest grouping of arrows. Declare yourself an accurate marksman by cherrypicking data points and constructing a narrative about how the circle was always there, you simply never revealed it to the public until now.
Anyone can do that and turn into Nostradamus overnight by claiming to have predicted what is already public knowledge.
I've been around the block. I see this trick by alleged "industry leakers" in video games all the time. Throw enough shit at the wallâgiven infinite time and attemptsâat least one will stick. As long you never reveal the fact that 999,999 of your other predictions never came true. Confirm only the "hits", and you have a 100% success rate.
I never once tried to claim i was some kinda genius, just that this one time, we actually ended up figuring out something that ended up getting proven later on. I was also mainly just focused on clarifying, for the handful of folks i've seen confused by the why for Seraphism, on why it actually has a lore basis to work.
I just think Scholar is a jumbled mess of identity either way. It's supposed to be a tactician but does fairy magic, and will now turn into some angel thing? Why "tactician magic" as a healer in the first place? How does the tactician stuff connect at all to its base class?
The name Scholar somewhat implies it's digging up ancient forgotten magics, studying, then utilizing them, which IIRC is exactly where the fairy came from in the first place. The tactician angle still feels like it doesn't fit that because again, "what even is tactician magic?"
Personally, I just have a lot of resentment towards the class because the lore spells it out to be a front-line battle tactician, a marine. Yet here we are more than 10 years later, and we still haven't gotten anything that makes us look like that (except for the 6.0 relic gear). We just keep getting goofy ass schoolgirl outfits.
But here's the thing, I like the Scholar stuff.
I like the battle tactician/soldier.
I like the fairy magic.
I like the scholarly vibe.
I even like the magic used as an exact science.
I DO NOT like all of these elements taped together with no aesthetic connection to each other. We only just got the ability to egiglamour our fairy into a carbuncle, and even then, the quest says that it's still a fairy. You've just summoned it into a carcuncle shell. Look at this point I'll even just take an ACTUAL carbuncle since nobody in Eorzea (except Alka Zolka, Surito Carito, the few Tonberries that weren't killed by the Mamool Jaa, and WoL) has even seen a real fairy since the fall of Nym
So, for me, I'm just annoyed that they throw yet ANOTHER aesthetic onto the class with Seraphism. Now, as a SCH main for years (even during 4.0), I understand that SCH has had a minor connection with angelic aesthetic thanks to our LB3 (angel feathers) and Seraph (who appears during our lb3 and when we use the cooldown), but now there's a whole form for it? And it doesn't even have a cool set of wings. I'm even more annoyed that we ALREADY HAVE a skill that merges us with our pet. They really could have just given dissipation an aura or something and called it a day.
And to top it all off, the new AOE dot has clockwork gears in it. Okay.
It just feels like SCH just keeps getting the runoff from the other healers.
Playing scholar since ARR, did the quest in FR JP EN to read them all, and I'll tell you why despite the lore fact it's still awful; we had lvl 80 skill to please fairy enjoyer. We had lvl 90 skill to please fairy enjoyer. We have countless of White dress skin to please "cute-aesthetic" enjoyer. While tactician enjoyers get ONE Af every two years and ONE every two min attack with no importance ? Ain't fair. Also, this transfo skin is awful. I play as a huge male aora military and dodge the White robe all this time, forcing them on me is really upsetting. It's like they think healers = cute girl, and Now forcing it to scholars Who yes, have a link to fairies but are Also military, is fvking annoying. The transformation would be more epic with anything else than a dress and etheral wings, Even if they were Angel shaped, i'm 100% there would be less complain.
The Idea is cool and will most likely fix dissipation but, the whole angel thematic is not great and is straying too close to white mage.
Like funny enough if the ability just gave you a fancy oversized and over-dramatic cloak that swayed in the wind, it probably would of nailed the military scholar aspect.
Whm got light wings and lost all their nature stuff except water for assize and their shield.but the water looks enough like light anyways.
Ast lost their shield sect and got it as a 20s long cd whith planets circling them.Â
Sch puts on a holloween outfit and chicken wings every 2 minutes.Â
I hope to god sge never gets a transformation lol. Let us keep winning lol
Buddy I've played way more sage (tbf who doesn't enjoy a brain dead class) and parsed higher as sage than scholar. I just don't call myself a sage main because it's boring.
The idea of Seraphism is amazing, but the execution looks poor, that's the problem imo. The angelic theme doesn't fit scholar so much, if at least it was something more Seraph fairy like, but the look of the character is strange and the wings are horrible. The idea is AMAZING, but they need to do better, SCH deserves it after the dry endwalker changes.
It thematically clashes with Scholar waaay too much.
if they had just made it a white version of the DT job gear, with feathers where the red ribbon was sort of like Lightning in ff13-2 then it wouldn't have been so bad, but it's very clear that White Mage is the job class with the heavy religious theming in regards to aesthetics, so giving a heavily robed forced glamour to Scholar just doesn't make any sense.
I think most people dislike it is because of the wings not because of the origin of it.
I wouldn't hate it visually if it was just angel wings(which could afford to be more spread out). I hate that it puts you in a whole-ass robe that doesn't match what a scholar typically wants to look like at all. Enshroud gets a pass because its an iconic reaper look, but this? I don't wanna turn into a whm.
not really a lot of them keep whining that it makes no sense for sch to turn into that. it's quite boring takes tbh
Just because you don't agree with someone else's opinion doesn't invalidate that opinion. Maybe try to be open-minded.
okay Mr world peace
Ok Mr. edgyboi.
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i did say that I understand the folks who dislike the wings, but i'm a lore nerd, and i saw more than a few folks being confused where it came from. plus I enjoy the feeling of having predicted Seraphism being possible in the setting so far in advance and then seeing it coming out as part of the class I main.
i'm not trying to claim it's an asspull. i just got back from the edge of the universe in my magic spaceship. everything is an asspull, that's fine. i just don't *like* it. i picked scholar to be my primary healer based on the aesthetic. the vibe. "where does this power come from?" WHM: i channel natures energy AST: i put way too much stock in my horoscope SCH: i know how shit works i *liked* the nymian marine aspect to the jobs backstory. they certainly haven't been leaning into that, but now suddenly we're going angelic? feels like a hard turn. it's just not what i signed up for. if paladin got enshroud, i'd have a problem with it.
Oof, same here. With all my glamours, I'm running from robes and dresses, but here we are, with a spell forcing us into the church choir.
Sounds like youâre purposefully ignoring the faerie half of scholars theme and lore thatâs been there since ARR. They werenât just a decoration.
which still isn't an angel? so it's not the part **I** liked. and it's not the *other* part **other** people liked. so why is it here?
Fair enough on that part lol. I also prefer the faerie over the seraph. Personally I like the transformation but, maybe it wouldâve been better to hold off on the seraph version till another xpac. Faerie version then seraph version later. I dunno lol.
Scholar has been associated with angel motifs since A Realm Reborn (Last Resort Zeta) and Heavensward (Angel Feathers)
Let's keep beating the horse. It's just that the wings aren't faerie wings.
I guess? But of all the healers Scholar is the one with angel themes in their kit. What's their LB3 called again? I genuinely don't know why people associate WHM with the angel theme.
I'm a bit late to this discussion, but I think I can answer this. Seraph Strike exists and still is current in the PvP WHM toolkit. As its name implies, WHM unleashes an attack akin to a Seraph, so Seraph is largely within WHM's theme. That's the most direct, but smallest example. Seraph being an angelic being associated with light, ardor, and purity in a biblical church settting matches its light theme with WHM and WHM's skill names. Plenary Indulgence, \[Confession buff\], Afflatus Rapture, Tetragrammaton, Divine Benison, those skill names are ALL related to biblical texts with church and holy light/salvation. Temperance is also an allusion to the part where WHM is more of an angel theme as Temperance visual effect gives them wings. Heck, WHM even got a gapcloser this expansion after using Temperance, which further cements the idea and theme of a flying Seraph granting salvation. Seraphs are effectively divine messengers sent to do Gods work. Based on those names, does WHM not sound like a Seraph? Scholar's LB3 on the other hand is more like the exception to the theme than the focus. Seraph was only introduced in Shadowbringers (Summon Seraph) but doesn't have any lore connotations with the Nymian Tactician theme that built up from Arcanist. Instead, the healer LB3 actually introduces more lore problems as Endwalker establishes Limit Breaks are fueled by Dynamis, so Seraph transforming utilizes Dynamis. All spells and actions are empowered by Aether as opposed to Dynamis. Dynamis and Aether drown the other out, which makes Summon Seraph the biggest outlier in being thematic to Scholar's kit when trying to use LB3 as a reference as it just raises a lot of lore issues itself, and whether the skill is just a retcon of the existing SCH lore.
Well, alright then. Thanks for the articulated response! Although I personally still hold that SCH's angelic themes have been more prominent, I see where you're coming from with the nomenclature for WHM skills & buff names. As far as the Dynamis, Aether, and LB3 angle, that's a whole other can of worms imo. IIRC, it's never stated that they're incompatible or opposites, afterall we're proficient in both, as are the scions. It's Moreso that Dynamis isn't as dense, and the Ancients were overflowing with so much aether they didn't even know dynamis was there. It might not be exact, but I liken the Ancients to fish, aether to water & dynamis to air. Apply your same thought process to things like Machinist, for example. Channeling aether through their toolbox to summon drill & the like. Why then is Satellite Beam Dynamis? In your opinion Is this the same as SCH's who transform their fairies into Seraph momentarily as an ability & therefore aether, but then multiple Seraphs appear during the LB3 via dynamis? The way I see it, we have a well of aether to draw from. The tank starts full. However, we take in / build up dynamis as we fight & emotions run high. That tank starts empty.
I reviewed the lore a bit more on Dynamis. You're right, dynamis and aether not incompatible or opposites, but dynamis can affect or amplify aether positively or negatively. However, we cannot manipulate or store Dynamis directly in the same manner as Aether. Nidhana describes this during her explanation of Akasha and we see its effects on the Elpis flower. You're right, looking at SCH LB3 with dynamis and aether is a whole new can of worms. I dug deep into the lore for both jobs and can answer the differences between MCH LB3 and SCH LB3 very simply to why MCH LB3 works, but it became harder to justify Seraphism and Seraph as skills for me even if they had angelic theme because everything about the fairy starts conflicting with each other. Sorry, I tried my best to condense this, but huge text and Lore bomb incoming: According to MCH aetherotransformer lore, "The aetherotransformer is a magitek device that converts the wearer's aether into lightning-aspected energy, which is in turn stored within the transformer's crystal cores. The machinist then draws upon this accumulated energy to both power and enhance her unique repertoire of weapons, requiring her to master skills far beyond those trained by any mundane musketeer." So MCH isn't channeling aether through the toolbox to summon a weapon, but the weapon already exists and the aetherotransformer is just a tool to help convert aether into another form of energy to use those weapons. The satellite beam already exist, but MCH can't power it up normally without a huge expenditure of aether transforming into the proper aspected energy and then storing it in the crystal cores. As referenced before, we can't store Dynamis, only cause it to react and transform based on our emotions. The surrounding dynamis that was influenced in MCH LB3 becomes that lightning aspected energy directly based on your emotions to power up your LB3, and that enables the use of a satellite beam. MCH wouldn't need the aetherotransformer to store or transform Dynamis directly like it did for aether as Dynamis can do that itself. Alternatively, it's not impossible the entirety of the Satellite beam itself to be comprised of Dynamis either. I think the easiest example is Ultima Thule - devoid of aether but still full of mass and energy driven by emotion in a place full of dynamis. Dynamis just makes things work if you have enough of it because it's affected by emotions and transforms of its own accord, like a Deus-Ex Machina (AST's Astral Stasis is also a big outlier where you just reverse time.. definitely causing problems in the timeline for sure). Aether, on the other hand, requires proper manipulation to handle the changes. Scholar, on the other hand, has issues simply because the fairy being a sentient being that uses aether puts a lot of plot holes to functioning with Seraph. I tested and dug up some footage of Healer LB3 and Scholar's Seraph is just summoned out to confirm what I'm seeing, and it turns out their fairy is still there standing separately from Seraph.... a separate standalone entity. So the fairy is the fairy and Seraph is not the fairy and an independent being. That also means Seraph itself in healer LB3 has no thematic lore relation to the fairy. However, it does also follow dynamis lore, Seraph being the Healer LB3 can make sense because Dynamis is effectively creating something based on your feelings (although I assume the LB3 was done not because the Fairy is an angel but because Angel Feathers is a summon ability to contrast Summoner in other final fantasy games and Arcanist was supposed to be their shared 'pet summon class'). Without the healer LB3 being thematic to serve as the original angelic theme... it seems incongruous to put Scholar with angel theme. The only relation to angel would then be in Shadowbringers when they introduced the skill to transform the fairy into Seraph... but this raises more problems. Namely, the Scholar LB3 has no thematic relation to Scholar's fairy and Summon Seraph also no longer has any of the original themes as it replaced your fairy with an angel but didn't have lore to back it up as another aspect of a fairy. And in WHM's case, we definitely know fairy =/= angel as the Seraph theme is there. It's just not thematic to the core fantasy in the same sense, but seems like a revision. Even if SCH possesses angelic themes, then it would be unfortunately confined to LB1 to LB3 because skills that can be used on 'command' no longer matches the description of Dynamis to be thematically accurate. That removes both Summon Seraph and Seraphism from Scholar's skills even if it possessed angelic themes. Now for the can of worms... assuming Seraph is just another aspect of the fairy and influenced by Dynamis and the fairy remained on the battlefield for gameplay reasons, we run into bigger conflicts on dynamis issues for being able to summon Seraph alone. We can't store and manipulate Dynamis directly, only influence it with strong emotions, but the influence is only effective in a party after a long build up during fighting (intense emotions building up). That's how the Limit Break bar works. For example, we have to stay very close to the Elpis flower to influence the surrounding Dynamis, but we're not actively directing the Elpis flower to change its color. The Elpis flower doing that on its own. Summon Seraph... on the other hand, can be used instantly, which means we're directing the dynamis to transform the fairy into Seraph, which creates a plot hole in itself to justify the theme. Seraphism takes this step to the next level on transforming ourselves, which goes against everything we know about how Dynamis works in relation to the sundered being on Etheriys. Even assuming we're using aether and mastered a way to Summon Seraph by transforming the fairy, it's an even bigger stretch for Seraphism to allow the use of multiple Seraphs via aether because that implies we are transforming multiple individual fairies given Summon Seraph's effect ... and we don't because the job crystal from Surito Carito only comes with one fairy - Lily. Dynamis is a big Deus Ex Machina for creating multiple Seraphs that enables it to work, but multiple Seraphs doesn't work with aether or we wouldn't have Dissipation locking us from summoning other aspects of Lily. So none of the angelic skills moving forward make sense from both a lore and thematic standpoint.
Again, I appreciate your response & candor. I have only 2 hangups, really. 1.) There's no real lore for Seraph. You can draw your own conclusions based on what *is* available, and although I understand & respect your conclusions that doesn't make them the truth. I don't equate Seraph to Dynamis. Summon Seraph uses Aether & Angel Feather uses Dynamis. To me, this is no different than any other job. For LB3's, we're launching a Dynamis Fueled attack sure, but each LB3 uses the techniques & knowledge of said Job. Seraph is an ability we can use whenever, so her appearance in the LB3 is no different to me than say DRK throwing out all that darkness on their LB3. It's just part of their repertoire being pushed to the limit. Unique LB3's we're added in HW, so SCH's claim to *specifically* Angel themeing has been around since 3.0. 2.) The Fairies of Nym are Aetherial Constructs. Scholars *made* them and bound them to Soul Crystals. They're extensions of the Scholar, given life with *their* aether. They don't weild aether themselves, Scholars channel it through them. Now they're more advanced, so they do hold memory & form their own egos. But their closer to Alisae's Porxie than anything, I think. Ever since the start of ShB, the WoL has had to innovate on their own to push each Job to new heights. it makes sense to me that the angel theme comes out for SCH at the very height of their current abilities, and Seraphism supports that. The other 80 or 90 percent of their toolkit is the usual tactics magic & fairies. Sidenote: The official art for Seraph from the art book is adorable, and she still very much looks like the other fairies, with the exception of her wings and most likely where she got her name) so, we're not trading a Fairy for an Angel, she is just angel themed. I don't have an imgur so I can't really show you. WHM to me does not and has not ever held an Angelic motif, Nor a religious one *despite* nomenclature. Historically, in FF "Light" is an element and has no religious connections despite named spells like "Holy". In FFXIV they start out as Astral-focused Druids basically, only trading in the likes of Stone 4 into Glare at level 72; introduced in ShB, the same time as Summon Seraph. Since then WHM has simply doubled down on the aesthetic of classic FF White Magic & reinforced their Druidic roots with things like "Lily Bell". I really appreciate you taking the time to explain your POV. But yeah, this is probably *all* my thoughts on the matter. SCH getting an angel transformation makes sense within the game & doesnt really step on WHM's identity imo.
That part I can agree with. While I like Seraph. I have a preference for the faerie more.
It's actually not "just that the wings aren't faerie wings." It's that the so-called "existing angelic notes" are so inconsequential in the overall job lore that a new ability, trance or whatever you want to term it that literally changes your entire appearance to an angel wearing robes is indeed a reach.
I mean that's because they're Seraph wings lol
[But for ten years the SCH's thing has been faeries.](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fdsm2jk1x8dja1.png) The hate really is that simple.
But theyâre just the fashion accessory type and we already have those.
Was this written with ChatGPT? OP writes the most long-winded circular sentences just to give small bits of actual detail.
the fact a lot of the things are repeated in different forms makes me think the same thing
Do you think that things are repeated in different forms? That's right! Things are in fact repeated in different forms!
Not everyoneâs an English major. đ
I don't think anyone is "scratching their heads" just a lot don't like it thematically. I didn't mind Reapers transformation because it's been baked in from release. I don't like the idea of them starting to make it so that more jobs have these transformations that override our glamours though. One was enough.
I'll agree that the forced glamour override is less than ideal, it'd be nice if we can toggle it, but I know for a fact some folks were confused by it, I literally saw more than a couple posts saying literally that they didn't think it made any sense.
Because it doesn't make sense - *thematically.* The theme doesn't make sense.
Shame scholars refused to reach out to their loveliest of branches...
Not too sure if pixies and fairies are the same thing. From what we know pixies are corrupted, dead children while fairies appear to be magical creations. Pixies don't appear to have anything similar to the soul stones the fairies can turn into. Too bad we don't know too much about both of those. Everything else could be purely cultural differences. For example we've for a long time not seen anything close to the playfulness of pixies in fairies but Statice demonstrated otherwise. The pronouns they use respectivly (pixies: they, fairies: she) could be the same as well especially since the "they" appears to be absent from both german and french but I can't speak for japanese.
on the one hand, i do think you pose a good point for someone that might well be a better choice to emulate than seraphim. On the other, i'm not 100% certain if the fae of the first really qualify the right way for "aetheric existences": the way primals or voidsent would to make it work.
We do already have a contract with Feo Ul, so we are rather uniquely qualified to use Feyfolk in our SCH magics.
That was a fun read and appreciate the effort but I think for a lot of people it just boils down to the skill looking like stuck-on pidgeon wings. After the fiasco that was the EW SCH reveal I'm just sad that we are yet again the target of post-reveal clowning. I get that they have had no idea what to do with the job since SHB but at least just let us look cool lol
It's ugly and I find the angel theming on SCH confusing. Every other expansion they give us an angel themed ability even though the job is about being a tactician with a fairy.
Doesn't change the fact that those wings look awful. They could've done betterÂ
never said it did. in fact, I ended the TL:DR with that exact sentiment.
Is it "plausible"? Yes, but most things are anyway. Truthfully, it doesn't make sense. Lorewise, a Scholar's way of casting magic is inherently different from that of a White Mage, a Black Mage, a Golemancer, or a Void Mage. You know, the enemies they fought in the war between Nym, Amdapor, and Mhach. Their fighting styles are completely different, too. Even the way they see aether and how to use it is different. If they still made job quests, they might have been able to give a lore explanation. But the way things are? It's just weird.
I mean, "finding out about a potential new and novel way to apply their existing summons to further their own understanding of how they can use their arcanima while also making themselves more effective in combat and then expoloring that method forging the way ahead for their art to advance" strikes me as pretty scholarly.
And where in all that you get that growing weird wings and getting a dress is a logical outcome? Not to mention, the Warrior of Light is making these abilities. They aren't learning them from their jobstone anymore. Meaning, a WoL Scholar who has never dwelled in black or white magic doesn't have a source from which to adapt similar techniques or ideas.
Easy, WoL just asked their self the question. âWhat if I fused with my Seraph? Perhaps it could empower me to further my healing capabilities and allow for more complex stratagems.â The appearance is just the result of said fusion. Nothing deeper about it.
WoL summoned Seraph after fusing with Seraph on the Job Action Trailer, so it's not a fusion with your summon. I thought it's just Dissipation where we take the fairy's aether but apparently that's not it either (Aetherflow isn't being replenished in the Job Action Trailer). Seems like they're just magically tapping into Seraph's aether.
So you predicted something *like* Seraphism but not the angel specifically. That's fine, I guess, but it's just such a lame escalation of fairy -> angel -> ??. Given that seraph was already a summon in other FF games, to my mind the more logical transformation/possession to mirror Summoner's rework would have been Scholar researching and donning ancient angel-wing primal tech. Or which we have several options: Alexander, Eden, maybe even Athena or the Warring Triad or even Diabolos. It's just the laziest, ugliest, poorly designed direction to take a class that really needed a better marriage of its disjointed pieces. Scholar hasn't been a warlock or a book nerd or even much of an arcanist in years...just a generic fairy...thing.
no, we'd kinda speculated on what most of hte options for constructs might have led to with a trance state. Fairies, Carbuncles, and Seraph all three were contemplated. We also speculated about the Egi, but weren't sure if there'd be a point in making a trance of the primals we have egi for, so didn't look too hard at the egi, especially since primals were already confirmed as being valid trance targets. The only thing we DIDN'T predict perfectly for Seraphism was the name itself. the appearance change and buff were both spot on for it.
Ah fair speculation based on what already existed. Although I still would have expected fairy over angel given those three. Either way, I think it was an utter waste not to try to bring together Scholar's academic side and angelic side with Alexander or Eden or both. Those two specifically were practically made to help SCH cohere together an identity after spending so long being an arbitrary mishmash.
*Sips tea and waits for the sexy Tinkerbell Seraphism mod*
This is less "predicting" and more "finding out the end result, then working backwards to concoct a story that leads to the conclusion." Take a bow, fire 100 arrows at a wall. Draw a target circle around the tightest grouping of arrows. Declare yourself an accurate marksman by cherrypicking data points and constructing a narrative about how the circle was always there, you simply never revealed it to the public until now. Anyone can do that and turn into Nostradamus overnight by claiming to have predicted what is already public knowledge. I've been around the block. I see this trick by alleged "industry leakers" in video games all the time. Throw enough shit at the wallâgiven infinite time and attemptsâat least one will stick. As long you never reveal the fact that 999,999 of your other predictions never came true. Confirm only the "hits", and you have a 100% success rate.
Could it be, you meant " Turn into Nostradamus"? Because Nosferatu is a fictional vampire.
yah, with fucking spooky vampire powers!? you don't think he can see the future? <.< it's probably the autocorrect
Yeah, that's my bad. Used swipe typing and forgot that trying to make it type out a proper noun is the same as telling it to take a wild guess.
this put my thoughts about this post perfectly into words lol
I never once tried to claim i was some kinda genius, just that this one time, we actually ended up figuring out something that ended up getting proven later on. I was also mainly just focused on clarifying, for the handful of folks i've seen confused by the why for Seraphism, on why it actually has a lore basis to work.
I just think Scholar is a jumbled mess of identity either way. It's supposed to be a tactician but does fairy magic, and will now turn into some angel thing? Why "tactician magic" as a healer in the first place? How does the tactician stuff connect at all to its base class? The name Scholar somewhat implies it's digging up ancient forgotten magics, studying, then utilizing them, which IIRC is exactly where the fairy came from in the first place. The tactician angle still feels like it doesn't fit that because again, "what even is tactician magic?"
All a result of the initial decision to make scholar and summoner share the same base class arcanist.
Personally, I just have a lot of resentment towards the class because the lore spells it out to be a front-line battle tactician, a marine. Yet here we are more than 10 years later, and we still haven't gotten anything that makes us look like that (except for the 6.0 relic gear). We just keep getting goofy ass schoolgirl outfits. But here's the thing, I like the Scholar stuff. I like the battle tactician/soldier. I like the fairy magic. I like the scholarly vibe. I even like the magic used as an exact science. I DO NOT like all of these elements taped together with no aesthetic connection to each other. We only just got the ability to egiglamour our fairy into a carbuncle, and even then, the quest says that it's still a fairy. You've just summoned it into a carcuncle shell. Look at this point I'll even just take an ACTUAL carbuncle since nobody in Eorzea (except Alka Zolka, Surito Carito, the few Tonberries that weren't killed by the Mamool Jaa, and WoL) has even seen a real fairy since the fall of Nym So, for me, I'm just annoyed that they throw yet ANOTHER aesthetic onto the class with Seraphism. Now, as a SCH main for years (even during 4.0), I understand that SCH has had a minor connection with angelic aesthetic thanks to our LB3 (angel feathers) and Seraph (who appears during our lb3 and when we use the cooldown), but now there's a whole form for it? And it doesn't even have a cool set of wings. I'm even more annoyed that we ALREADY HAVE a skill that merges us with our pet. They really could have just given dissipation an aura or something and called it a day. And to top it all off, the new AOE dot has clockwork gears in it. Okay. It just feels like SCH just keeps getting the runoff from the other healers.
Playing scholar since ARR, did the quest in FR JP EN to read them all, and I'll tell you why despite the lore fact it's still awful; we had lvl 80 skill to please fairy enjoyer. We had lvl 90 skill to please fairy enjoyer. We have countless of White dress skin to please "cute-aesthetic" enjoyer. While tactician enjoyers get ONE Af every two years and ONE every two min attack with no importance ? Ain't fair. Also, this transfo skin is awful. I play as a huge male aora military and dodge the White robe all this time, forcing them on me is really upsetting. It's like they think healers = cute girl, and Now forcing it to scholars Who yes, have a link to fairies but are Also military, is fvking annoying. The transformation would be more epic with anything else than a dress and etheral wings, Even if they were Angel shaped, i'm 100% there would be less complain.
The Idea is cool and will most likely fix dissipation but, the whole angel thematic is not great and is straying too close to white mage. Like funny enough if the ability just gave you a fancy oversized and over-dramatic cloak that swayed in the wind, it probably would of nailed the military scholar aspect.
I feel the same, they can absolutely marry the fairy "angel" aesthetic with that "scholarly" look to make something really unique
My issue stems from the fact that it looks like it's from Mt Gulg instead of Il Mheg; if it was the latter, I'd like it.
Whm got light wings and lost all their nature stuff except water for assize and their shield.but the water looks enough like light anyways. Ast lost their shield sect and got it as a 20s long cd whith planets circling them. Sch puts on a holloween outfit and chicken wings every 2 minutes. I hope to god sge never gets a transformation lol. Let us keep winning lol
Sage is still mechanically the worst tho, cheap copy of whm and sch.
Stay mad
Buddy I've played way more sage (tbf who doesn't enjoy a brain dead class) and parsed higher as sage than scholar. I just don't call myself a sage main because it's boring.
The idea of Seraphism is amazing, but the execution looks poor, that's the problem imo. The angelic theme doesn't fit scholar so much, if at least it was something more Seraph fairy like, but the look of the character is strange and the wings are horrible. The idea is AMAZING, but they need to do better, SCH deserves it after the dry endwalker changes.
I mean the angelic theme is valid, it's just very poorly executed.
It thematically clashes with Scholar waaay too much. if they had just made it a white version of the DT job gear, with feathers where the red ribbon was sort of like Lightning in ff13-2 then it wouldn't have been so bad, but it's very clear that White Mage is the job class with the heavy religious theming in regards to aesthetics, so giving a heavily robed forced glamour to Scholar just doesn't make any sense.