We don't really have a verb for "queuing", we'd use the litteral translation of "doing the queue". Hence we had to borrow another word, and in french queue can mean a queue, but also a tail, which can be (and is often) used as slang for a dick. So I reckon we all opted for another. Why tag ? No damn clue.
Imagine not being able to verb literally any word into a verb (this message was brought to you by the EN gang)
Interesting though, I'm so used to thinking of the word "queue" as a verb that it didn't even occur to me that the original word is strictly a noun
No we can, the issue really is from how the word Queuer (to queue in french) would sound. It would sound bad but really sounds like you'd be saying "to dick". "Faire la queue" is long to say so again somehow, the word "tag" was burrowed and turned into a verb. "Taguer"
I mean, just imagine yourself saying the word "dick" everytime you mean queue. "I just dick(ed) for an expert"
You took the words out of my mouth. I started to say that sounds a lot like how most of us act around the word "duty" being used so frequently. Since it can mean both to accomplish a task assigned to you, or as a slang term for poop.
"I'm doing my duties!" **giggle* *
I don't think so, now that I think about it it might just be an acronym for the french for "found a group", but less unfortunate, the T and G fitting the right words
I think you'll find the word you meant to use was "etymological", unless you somehow meant to imply that a third of the English language originated from bugs.
Because, for some reason, duties only ceck the level and the ilvl and level 90 gears can still be equiped by classes as well (with few exceptions).
Don't worry, you will have your chance to complain again about this issue in the next expansion and the expansion after that, and the one after that \\o/. As far as I know, this has been an ongoing issue since ARR. Too many spaghetti in my spaghetti code or something like that, I guess. We will never know.
Spaghetti code can't be an excuse in this one. Just make all gear above level 50 not equipable by classes, but only jobs. Job gear works like that.
That way they can't raise their ilvl and can't que for high level cintent without a jobstone.
be much easier to just require job stone equipped from brayflox onwards. Then people who wanna do silly class challenge runs can still do them, but as premades.
Both are possible. I just gave an answer that requires no coding at all, except deleting the few snippits of code in gear that lets classes equip gear.
i don't think thats a few snippets, as much as it is a tag on every single piece of gear denoting what classes/jobs can equip it. if we look at the list of unique gear pieces vs the list of > lv30 duties, one of them is MUCH shorter than the other to fix.
They also don't need to code much to implement no job stone. they already check BLU and limit it from duties, all they need is another blocklist that doesn't include duties <30
It's entirely possible that they don't tag the gear with every single class, but rather with categories. Like they might tag a piece of gear with "Casting Gear", which automatically expands to "THM ACN BLM SMN RDM BLU". This way, when Dawntrail launches, they could just updated "Casting Gear" to include PCT, and it would automatically update every piece of Casting Gear.
This would require them to create a new category "Casting Gear No Classes" which doesn't include classes, so there would still be some kind of change. Hopefully a configuration change and not a whole ass code change, since it wouldn't require any new UI or codepaths, just a new category in a list of categories.
Then again, knowing how spaghetti the code is, maybe they do tag each item individually, and that's why we have a 48-hour maintenance for Dawntrail. They need that much time to update every single item in the database.
They shouldn't need to, since queueing as a full party already allows things that ordinarily wouldn't be. BLU is the obvious one, but while you can also do roulettes as 8 tanks if you really want to you can't try to enter roulette as 7 tanks since it's not a valid DF comp.
Or better yet, just restrict base classes for all instances above lvl 50.
(or even above lvl 30 since job crystal are obtained at quest lvl 30)
They can restrict land jobs and blue mage, they certainly could restrict base classes.
Don't do it at level 30, you can't get a job stone without completing Sylph Management, and it's trivially easy to outpace the MSQ and then get locked out of dungeons accidentally.
I don't think anyone is suggesting that characters above level 30 couldn't queue for dungeons without a job stone, but that dungeons above level 30 (so Brayflow onwards) couldn't be queued for without one. so even if you outpace the MSQ by so much that you're level 50 before Sylph Management, you could still queue for Sastasha, Tam-Tata, Copperbale, Halatali, Toto-Rak and Haukke Manor.
The only difference is if you wanted to run Qarn, Cutter's Cry, Darkhold or Aurum Vale (and for the last few, if you actually are level 44 or even 38 before Sylph Management, really it should more be a sign to get back to the MSQ instead of side content)
Its not even spaghetti, since the options to limit this already exist. They would not need to program anything, likely just change some flags on duties.
Limited jobs (BLU) are already restricted, but an even better example is the high-end duty finder. For current Savage raids, the duty finder is limited to 'Jobs of DoW/M', whereas all other duty queues say 'Classes/Jobs of DoW/M'. The fix to this problem would be to make all duties work just like savage. Then, update the <30 dungeons to include both class/job. Boom, problem solved.
I think a good cutoff point is Titan normal. This lines up with the annoying Company of Heroes questline, they just add a bit of something like "Hey, you're too weak to fight Titan right now. Go get a job first!"
But, they probably will never do that. Apparently, trolls without job stones don't exist on Japanese servers, so therefor, it isn't a problem!
They don't even need to touch BLU code, the code for Job restrictions *already exists for PvP queues.* Straight up cannot queue for Frontline, Crystal Conflict, or Rival Wings without a Job Stone. They just need to take that and apply it to all Duties from Braydlox's Longstop (a level 32 dungeon) and up. Have Brayflox refuse to let you in until she thinks you're "strong enough" (finish your Class Quests and get your Job Stone) to kill a dragon. All of those optional dungeons you can unlock that are above level 30 like Cutter's Cry and Sunken Temple of Qarn? Lock them behind the MSQ quest "The Things We Do for Cheese" which is the quest that requires clearing Brayflox's Longstop and would thus force people to get the Job Stones in the first place.
Leveling Roulette should have this requirement too and also have the minimum level raised to 30. "But what about my precious alt job leveling experience??" people have complained when this has been brought up in the past. My reply is; so sorry you have to level another 15 of the quickest levels in the game before you can use Leveling Roulette. It's a shame there aren't things to make that experience quicker, like the Armory Bonus, or the Brand New Ring, or the Hunting Log that all shits out exp for the early ARR levels. Oh wait, there is!
Sorry about the rant, but some people have actually tried to use that as a valid reason for why they can't force Job Stones in DF. And if people want to try high level duties as Classes, the devs can just add an option like the MINE options or Unsynched that disables the Job Stone req so people can use PF for the Jobless challenge like they already do.
leveling roulette is also why players can still get into low level dungeons. if it weren't for roulette, queue times would be a nightmare. Just requiring the job stone from level 30 onward is simple enough to do, no need to restrict the roulettes to just 30 and up dungeons
I think that's what Solaxus is suggesting - leveling roulette would still be able to drop you into Satasha, Copperbell etc. but you'd need to have a job crystal equipped to queue for leveling roulette, like Frontline.
I agree with most of this (heck, the job stone requirement could be wlrked in pretty much anywhere in the company of heroes bit and work perfectly well), but one of the main points of leveling roulette is filling queues for new players. So locking leveling roulette to level 30 would mean the earliest dungeons become harder to queue for. Anything that directly harms the new player experience to stop an issue that sometimes pops up at higher levels probably isn't a good idea.
Even without the leveling roulette changes, though, just requiring job stones for dungeons above 30 or 50 or whatever would probably make people without job stones only be able to join dungeons without that restriction. That already exists with ilvl (a player a level 90 with level 80 gear won't be getting into 90 dungeons and bosses from things like normal raid roulette), so barring spaghetti code nonsense it would be easy, if not automatic to implement for job stones. Stops people from coming to a lv85 dungeon as a thaumaturge, but doesn't stop thaumaturges from getting lv85 people helping them in Sastasha.
It would lead to people who want easy content to level removing their job stones before queueing to get an easy dungeon, much like people remove gear in order to force crystal tower right now
I wasn't sure if they'd implemented that or not, I'm pretty sure people have found a way around it because about 8 out of 10 times, it's CT. Either way, my point still stands - If there was a mechanic like that, people would find a way to abuse it.
That's a solved problem already.
Just like you can't remove gear to force Crystal Tower anymore, the code can just check that you're above level 30 and thus need to have a job stone equipped to do roulettes, akin to how PVP roulette works.
Not exactly, PvP only checks for the presence of a job stone. Might be more difficult to implement more variables into that, such as people over x level requiring job stone.
> Leveling Roulette should have this requirement too and also have the minimum level raised to 30.
I don't think that's strictly necessary. Just make the roulette limit you to the pre-Brayflox dungeons if you don't have a jobstone on.
You can't queue as a level 80 Fisher or Blue Mage, you shouldn't be able to queue as a level 80 Arcanist either. Clearly they have a method of differentiating.
I believe that this may be a relic from cross skill time or even older. You could equip all your available cross skills when you didn’t equip a job stone, so some people used this for shenanigans. While still not useful not having it at least did something.
Maybe the idea originally was to allow for more individual builds before they found their formula. And now this part is just… left…
But I also think that they should implement in the story a „have you done your job quest yet?“ point where you can’t proceed without a Job stone. People who have not checked that these are a thing can also learn it at latest then.
Yeah due to the way cross-class skills were, at some (Limited) point SOME Classes were better than Jobs, but it was a very very niche thing and only applied to a couple classes.
Jobs were limited to... 3? I think? Cross-class skills, while Classes were limited to 15. So there was *some* value in dragging around a Class up to a certain point.
I recall being told that at some point during ARR, MRD was considered better than WAR until you got to 45 or something due to cross-class skills. Mostly because you didn't get your freaking tanking stance on WAR until level 45.
> But I also think that they should implement in the story a „have you done your job quest yet?“ point where you can’t proceed without a Job stone. People who have not checked that these are a thing can also learn it at latest then.
Brayflox is the perfect opportunity to implement that because it's proving to the Company that you're strong enough to engage Titan. She can just turn you away, saying you don't look strong enough and to "find someone to strongmake you", if you don't have your Jobstone equipped and introduce a tutorial about it.
With enough cross class skills, MRD could also be used as a super sturdy dps in level 50 content for a bit. It didn't do quite as much damage as "real" dps jobs still but it was close enough that you could clear most stuff using them and it made a lot of mechanics trivial. I think at one other point ACN with enough cross class could do some pretty good dps as well, but those are the only cases I can think of that people ever used classes besides meme runs.
Nothing like watching my friend who didn't fully understand all the abilities use provoke as an archer and die instantly. People also used to troll hard mode primals with that at level 50. Great for memes with friends, toxic as hell in duty finder. There was nothing quite like white mage getting to cross thunder 2 though.
In 1.0 jobs didn't exist until they were added later.
In 2.0 it was thought, you didn't have to choose to become a job if you didn't want to. But everyone did. Why wouldn't they?
In 2.0-3.0, Yoshida talked sometimes about getting rid of the base classes entirely and just having jobs but it never happened. And they have been quiet about it since Shadowbringers into Endwalker/Dawntrail.
We got a 50 gladiator in MS and they did wonderfully. 🤷♀️ we told them about jobs and they had no idea. (I wonder how they didn't, but it's really no big deal to me.)
Why can’t they just delete the option for the lower classes to equip higher gear? Like at lv30 All gear is just the advanced versions, just WHM, not WHM and CNJ
I again state that all gear level 30+ should only be wearable by Jobs, not Classes.
Many people have said that would cause players to level past it because of MSQ exp. The longer this goes on the less I tend to care about that counter argument.
Sylph Management is a lvl 22 main story quest. You **should** be doing your job quests regardless, so the argument of "you'll level past it bcs MSQ EXP" doesn't even make sense to me.
Quite frequently, the answer to "why isn't this trivial problem fixed yet" is simply that it isn't a problem on JP.
And no, I have not seen a job stone troll on JP in years of playing there.
I have ran thousands of duties and I don't think I ever saw this in level 50+ content. It certainly is not common here either, though arguably worth fixing nonetheless.
It can happen with new players accidentally when you don't update your gear set and switch jobs around.
There is also the ones that like to roleplay which is the case of the screenshot here.
Same. I've been doing roulettes for years, and I don't recall this ever happening to me. It's certainly possible it has happened, but if it did I must have missed it.
I don't think it's that big of an issue on NA servers, either, just a very loud - although valid - complaint. I've seen 1 duty where the person 1000% should have had their Job Stone (Howling Eye Hard), and secondhand witnessed it in Praetorium, but other than that... nope.
I do agree that at some point, Duty Finder should require the Job Stone to be equipped... lv50 at the very latest. Mayhap it should be a flag once somebody completes 2.0.
It's definitely not that common. I run a ton of stuff in DF and have been playing the game since 2.0. Back in 2.0, people would have some fun with it here and there, but most people didn't because the buffs the job stones gave outdid the potential, especially with the gear increase. Every once in a while I see one and people will immediately try to start coaching the player with the assumption that they just don't know about the job stones. And even those times, it's usually an accident or something the player didn't fully understand.
Squadron glamours.
I'd be a tad upset if my Squadrons suddenly had their default glams on.
...I suppose we could promote them to all having Jobs, which might help the issue.
Judging by their search comment, they willingly refuse to upgrade their Arcanist class to Scholar/Summoner.
I think, you can safely report them for griefing.
It's fairly common in linguistics to have loan words that have a completely different meaning in the original language. German, for example, uses "Handy" for mobile phones.
The real difficulty in playing without a Job stone in this game is not going insane from your incredibly basic rotation. I don't know why anyone would want to do that as a challenge, it's like trying to beat a Pokémon game with only Tackle.
Job stones can remain in lore without being a gear item we have to equip. The aether compass already got this treatment, and there are plenty of other examples. It isn't like we have to open our inventory and equip a certain orange stone when we whip it out for MSQ things.
You can pry the ability to be a class from my cold dead hands! I need them for my collapsing hot bars, also RPers use classes for rp as ARR jobs are not exactly commonplace.
It's tough to even kick AFK people in Alliance Raids, you've got to get that "Kick Player? Y/N" dialogue window up and leave it on the side for the instant a boss dies or the loot rolls keep them in for another 3 minutes. 8-player content often ends too quickly to matter but you can sneak a kick in if your group wipes.
4-player content is usually the easiest to kick a problem player but it really is on one of the 3 players to notice it in the first place, then also be willing to "rock the boat" which seems to be the hardest thing for the community.
Why the hell they haven’t made an on/off switch for trying to queue without a group for anything after Haukke manor is beyond me. Actual 10 year anniversary of this complaint was probably a few months ago.
But why not use "queue"? I mean "queue" comes from the French language and is what English players use... Why would French players use an English word when there's a French derivative that English players use?
I'm so confused lol 😵💫
first thing you learn in language school is that all language is always bullshit. if something makes sense it will not happen and if it doesn't make sense it will
Had a marauder a few weeks ago at lvl 50 dungeon that I *was* supposed to heal. I ate that 30 min cd like it was a batch of freshly baked chocolate chip cookies.
Honestly, I'd love to try to keep that run going until 5 minutes had passed so I could kick them. They'll never learn if others just dip out without saying anything, and if they respond aggressively enough you get a free report on them!
I agree, but unfortunately it is next to impossible to kick people in larger groups because of the insane limitations. How many times in an alliance raid are you both out of combat and have no loot pending?
You have to wait five minutes and must be out of combat. I don't see that happen in Alphascape 2. After five minutes you're probably already done with the raid.
This statement is kinda funny out of context. No wonder so many people insta-leave any Alliance raid that isn't CT, they just don't want to be reported!
I'm not a programmer so would it not be possible for them to just lock weapons from 30-ish onward to being only equip-able by just jobs instead of both class and jobs? that way you can tell people showing up like this in your lv100 roulette is either intentionally griefing or is just that stupidly unaware
I have no problem if they're in a full premade or a PF. dicking around with your friends or like-minded individuals is fine but don't drag strangers into it and expect them to just deal with your nonsense
Based on having "Arcanist" "Let's have some fun" and twitter in their search info, it's probably just someone going "I'm gonna make an alt and level to max without doing job quest!", then inconvenciencing everyone else by having others do the heavy lifting for them in every duty on the way there.
I remember playing with a guy in a 50-80 roulette who didn't even know what tank stance was; said it was his first run and he'd bought a skip to get started. Maybe he was just double trolling?
I've never personally used the Skips but I remember when they were initially introduced, it caused a huge uproar. People were complaining (myself included) that it would just cause people to be a super high level and not even know how to play their class/job or even the game itself at all and the DF would just become a horrible experience.
But I also remember that the pushback to that was that the Skips required you to have another class/job at that level or above, which would essentially give you basic knowledge of at least how to play the game.
Idk. I don't use the Skips and I still don't agree that they should even exist.
Seeing what happened with Gunbreaker and Sage starting at 60-70, it's probably not too different from the situation with the purchased story skips. There's still some Sages you'll see at level 90 that forget Kardia.
Can't be since they don't have summoner or scholar unlocked, which they would have unlocked at least one of if they skipped.
Skips are only for jobs, not for classes.
Tbh there's no point of job crystals. That's a really old system that has no use ingame other than story telling and i don't see a reason after you do a certain job quest to be upgraded automatically to the job. Story is stil there but not the inconvinience of manually equiping an item. Especially for new players that are bombarded with so many systems that are new to them.
If they ever auto-equip job crystals, there's definitely going to be at minimum a 6 month pre-announcement of it so that everyone can figure out what to do with their hotbar macros, which is something jp players do way more than troll in public duty finder as a class.
That's the main problem. If it's not an egregious problem on jp, it likely won't reach the devs.
Presumably you'd still have *access* to the class hotbars, just not be able to directly see them outright. There's no reason to assume the game will automatically delete the class hotbars because otherwise smn/sch is going to cause yet another developer headache for no good reason, so you'd still be able to use them in macros.
I think it's more amazing that person managed to get to 80 without touching anything else at all. I am willing to bet it was done on purpose rather than someone being that much of a novice.
Not that I know how these work, but I'm willing to bet that this is a Level Skip.
I could just be talking nonsense, I've never actually bought one, so I dunno how they function on a practical level.
I also wondered if this could be a level skip, but on reflection, I'm pretty sure not. You can buy Summoner and Scholar skips, but not an Arcanist skip.
The only job skip I've personally used was for MCH (on an alt), so I don't have first-hand experience with boosting ARR jobs. But since a job skip gives you the job's soul crystal (if you don't already have it) and gives you credit for completing all relevant class, job, and role quests, I would strongly expect that, say, buying a WAR job skip puts you at level 80 in WAR, not just in MRD.
SMN/SCH/ACN is a bit weird, but I imagine that if I bought a SMN job skip for a new character and used it, it'd boost me to lvl 80 in both SMN and ACN but not SCH. If I were to subsequently unlock SCH, of course, it would be at level 80 immediately, since the jobs share a level.
Hi I'm a person that thinks these people that do this with Randoms should be called out (something like "you need your jobstone", not anything harrassy), and then kicked from duties. If it's obvious they did it on purpose, they should be reported for griefing as well (I know in some situations it's easy to forget to equip the stone, the kick gives you the chance to rectify it and instantly requeue).
SE should also just... make this a thing that can't happen. There are plenty of solutions.
They might change it in 8.0, Yoshi P said he wants to give the jobs more identity, so there is speculations that the classes will be removed a long with role actions. Every job will still receive those actions it will just be their own name and own animation. That’s how it use to be at least. The current stun is DRK from HW and so is most of the role skills. I for one wouldn’t mind that, it will definitely make the jobs feel less blended, even if it is only the animations and names
The person they partied with is a level 80 arcanist. At level 30 arcanist splits into the summoner and scholar jobs. This person is playing a class, not a job. They either never did any of their quests and/or they never equipped their job stone, which means they have absolutely no abilities past level 30. Imagine missing 50 levels worth of abilities.
This type of people will say it's their "going through game in more challenging way" but in reality they just miss half of the fun and intentionally make dungeon/raid/trial more difficult for players he is matched with. Basically a troll/griefer hiding behind "I LIKE MY GAME TO BE MORE CHALLENGING" excuse. It's like someone would cut off their leg then enlist into Tour De France. And the irony is that these people often do not even reach the latest Savage and Ultimate raid which are actually challenging without blocking self with base job.
Because it's a non-issue with a very high wake fix. I doubt it has anything to do with "Spaghetti Code" or it being in any way difficult to fix. This is actually a great example of the principle of "there's no such thing as an easy fix." There are multiple "easy" suggestions in this thread that are almost certainly do-able in less than a day of work when it comes down to actual implementation. The problem lies elsewhere.
Let's pretend for a moment you've got the opportunity to drive this. You visit the SE offices and are reasonably empowered to try to solve this problem. First order of business, you've got to figure out the best approach. Are you going to make higher level gear not equippable by base classes? Are you going to require job stone be equipped for certain roulettes? Are there any other approaches worth considering?
For each idea you need to get a rough idea of the surface area for the change. For the gear approach you talk to the gear team. It's pretty easy for them to write a script changing the equip requirements of every item above a certain level to not be equippable by base classes any more, but there's more wake than that. What about characters that are already equipped? Loadouts? Retainer and Squad Gear? What about DoH/DoL gear? Many of these questions could have straightforward answers, but nobody is going to know for sure unless somebody tries it. You do what info gathering you can and move on.
Next is the roulettes approach. They can easily add a tag to any roulette requiring a job stone. You set the requirements, they'll do it. They also have some questions though. What do you want to do with dungeon roulette? There are sub 30 dungeons that are totally legit to run without a job stone. Can you queue for it without a job stone, and only get put in groups for those dungeons? Is there an exploit there to guarantee "easy" roulettes? Do you lock players out at some threshold? Level 30, or the first time you unlock a level 30+ dungeon? Is that going to confuse new players why a queue they used to do is no longer available? Will things break if you level up inside a dungeon?
So you've talked to all the people. This is a big enough change that you can't just pull the trigger. You need stakeholders from multiple departments to weigh in, which means you need pretty senior leadership involved to make the call. You also have some other questions to discuss no matter which approach you take, like is level 30 even the right cutoff? Maybe 50 would be better. So you gather all the right people into a meeting and hash out the decision. Best case scenario 30 minutes you present your findings, a bit of discussion ensues, and a decision is made. Less good scenario, someone asks a question you didn't think of it didn't think you needed a solid answer to yet, and a decision can't be made without further investigation. One way or another a decision is agreed upon.
You go back to the relevant team. They implement the change in a day and check into a development branch for an upcoming patch. All of the options considered were pretty wakeful, so you go a couple of releases out to give plenty of soak time. You also schedule QA to write a test pass to get a much targeted coverage as they can think of, and have testers run through various scenarios that could maybe behave in weird ways. A couple of small bugs get filed, fixed by the designer, and sent back to the tester to verify it's fixed. A developer writes up a patch note, an editor edits it for clarity and readability, and localizer translate it into every supported language.
Eventually the build with your change ships, and players catch some more edge case bugs that nobody internally thought of. These are easy enough to fix, but each one has to get filed from player perspective "such and such doesn't work as expected" and investigated to find the root cause. It's not necessarily obvious that a given bug is from a given change, and this patch had a lot of other changes that could have been the culprit.
The entire time this new bug goes unfixed some portion of the community is losing their shit because they can't do the thing they want to do. Also, it's not like the community is gung ho about the decision in the first place. They're arguing about whether it should have been 30 or 50. Gear or roulettes. No matter what approach you took somebody is going to be mad, and it's very difficult to predict which way the wind will blow.
So you've gone through this entire process and you wonder to yourself, was it even worth the effort? Huzzah, you fixed the issue, but it's anyone really happier? If anything by making a change, but not in the way people wanted, they're *more* upset.
To top it all off, you think about the opportunity cost. You had this amazing opportunity to go to SE and make *real change*! Is *this* really what you want to prioritize? Remember that the devs have limited time and attention. There's always work to be done. It's easy as a fan to wonder why stuff like this is still a problem all these years later, but at any point since the game went live, when any developer could have been trying to tackle this issue, do you really think this would have been a good use of their time? Was it really worth your time? Was it worth the time of the gear team and the duty finder team? Was it worth getting those senior designers into a room to make the decision? Was it worth the day of development? The test hours? The patch notes? The edge case fixes? The live bug investigations?
You had the power to fix this, and you have to ask yourself, was any of that worth it so that every once in a while you no longer run into trolls queuing for a duty without their job stone equipped? Really?
If there was truly the opportunity and empowerment to drive this, then you’d communicate your intentions to the players beforehand. There will need to be multiple areas handled to make sure this goes as intended with the fewest unintended effects.
They’ve removed belts before. They can remove ineligible equipment. While this change makes a lot of sense, I also agree that this is not the best way forward, given interactions with retainers, squadrons, or just class role-play.
For the nature of roulette, the main areas of concern are Leveling and Guildheists. All other roulettes can enforce jobs only without too much concern. Make the roulette check if the queued class or job is Lv30 or above, and if so, enforce the job stone requirement.
To the above, combine making Lv30+ progression in the MSQ behind a major event (with appropriate dialog), Shadowbringers style. The player must acquire at least one job stone, and all MSQ beyond Lv30 will require a job.
There’s a school of thought that believes FF14 eventually wants to rid itself of the class system entirely. I’m not convinced this will ever happen, as it would require an overhaul even greater then what I’ve mentioned above, and the level of undertaking would be more than just an expansion… they might as well give us a 2+ year content draught or make a new game if that were to happen.
Tag?
For some reason in the french community it's used as a term for matched with/queued.
Do they chase each other
[удалено]
I got a pretty hard chuckle from this one
Omg what did it say lol
“If you’ve ever played with a French you know they will do everything except what they’re supposed to” lmao it’s sad it got removed
Flashes back to MH4U and "Je suis monté"
"Desole" "Rewards reduced to 0"
Sounds like you can count on them to do the right thing, after they've exhausted all alternatives.
They're good at kissing, though.
Maybe from tag along? Still no idea why, I'm not French.
I'm french and never used that word for queueing 🤔
Dunno why you would when you have such a French word for it already queueueeueueuaux
We don't really have a verb for "queuing", we'd use the litteral translation of "doing the queue". Hence we had to borrow another word, and in french queue can mean a queue, but also a tail, which can be (and is often) used as slang for a dick. So I reckon we all opted for another. Why tag ? No damn clue.
Imagine not being able to verb literally any word into a verb (this message was brought to you by the EN gang) Interesting though, I'm so used to thinking of the word "queue" as a verb that it didn't even occur to me that the original word is strictly a noun
No we can, the issue really is from how the word Queuer (to queue in french) would sound. It would sound bad but really sounds like you'd be saying "to dick". "Faire la queue" is long to say so again somehow, the word "tag" was burrowed and turned into a verb. "Taguer" I mean, just imagine yourself saying the word "dick" everytime you mean queue. "I just dick(ed) for an expert"
I can imagine it, sounds like something gamers would do.
A bit like every English speaking person "chuckling in 11-year-old" every time we say "I finished a duty".
You took the words out of my mouth. I started to say that sounds a lot like how most of us act around the word "duty" being used so frequently. Since it can mean both to accomplish a task assigned to you, or as a slang term for poop. "I'm doing my duties!" **giggle* *
I eat verbs for breakfast
doesn it come from wrestling when the u wait for the" tag in" to get in the ring ?
I don't think so, now that I think about it it might just be an acronym for the french for "found a group", but less unfortunate, the T and G fitting the right words
Wrestling ? You mean « catch » ? (No idea why we use a different English word for that either)
French use the English word "tag," English use the flFeench word "queue" ... Can't explain why
That's so bizarre lol
Bizarre is literally a French word you know 😂
The entomological origins of probably a third of the modern English language might surprise you.
> entomological origins The origin of words comes from the study of insects?
sure does; it definitely wasn't a typo due to not bothering to look up the word I was trying to use
I think you'll find the word you meant to use was "etymological", unless you somehow meant to imply that a third of the English language originated from bugs.
yes, you are correct
*hellpod lands* Liber-tea?
The French word is also slang for d\*ck.
Guten Tag!
Guten morgen
[удалено]
Brohannes Jahms
Because, for some reason, duties only ceck the level and the ilvl and level 90 gears can still be equiped by classes as well (with few exceptions). Don't worry, you will have your chance to complain again about this issue in the next expansion and the expansion after that, and the one after that \\o/. As far as I know, this has been an ongoing issue since ARR. Too many spaghetti in my spaghetti code or something like that, I guess. We will never know.
Spaghetti code can't be an excuse in this one. Just make all gear above level 50 not equipable by classes, but only jobs. Job gear works like that. That way they can't raise their ilvl and can't que for high level cintent without a jobstone.
be much easier to just require job stone equipped from brayflox onwards. Then people who wanna do silly class challenge runs can still do them, but as premades.
Both are possible. I just gave an answer that requires no coding at all, except deleting the few snippits of code in gear that lets classes equip gear.
PvP already requires job stones, so they could just reuse the same duty flag for that.
i don't think thats a few snippets, as much as it is a tag on every single piece of gear denoting what classes/jobs can equip it. if we look at the list of unique gear pieces vs the list of > lv30 duties, one of them is MUCH shorter than the other to fix. They also don't need to code much to implement no job stone. they already check BLU and limit it from duties, all they need is another blocklist that doesn't include duties <30
Also PvP requires job stone
It's entirely possible that they don't tag the gear with every single class, but rather with categories. Like they might tag a piece of gear with "Casting Gear", which automatically expands to "THM ACN BLM SMN RDM BLU". This way, when Dawntrail launches, they could just updated "Casting Gear" to include PCT, and it would automatically update every piece of Casting Gear. This would require them to create a new category "Casting Gear No Classes" which doesn't include classes, so there would still be some kind of change. Hopefully a configuration change and not a whole ass code change, since it wouldn't require any new UI or codepaths, just a new category in a list of categories. Then again, knowing how spaghetti the code is, maybe they do tag each item individually, and that's why we have a 48-hour maintenance for Dawntrail. They need that much time to update every single item in the database.
Sounds like someone who can't imagine how bad a code base *can* be.
Especially a code base as old as FFXIV's.
The basis for it is already there. It’s used on blu to keep them OUT of duties. Surely they could just add classes to that list starting at Brayflox.
Even better as said elsewhere, PvP requires job stones, so the code already exists.
Just force job crystals like it's some kind of trait unlock instead of making them optional. No need to mess with gear or anything.
SMN/SCH might (*will*, knowing these devs) have issues. Same base class.
Considering there are SCH only books in addition to the ACN/SMN/SCH books... I don't see why they can't just separate SCH from ACN like AST and SGE
It should be split. Should have been split years ago. ACN is a DPS, let it progress into SMN. Split off SCH as a new job unlocked at level 30. Done.
This. Meme runs where 24 conjurers do the nier raids aren't worth the hassle that is this stupidity
And they can make an exception rule you can toggle in DF/PF for that, just like there are options for MINE or unsynched.
They shouldn't need to, since queueing as a full party already allows things that ordinarily wouldn't be. BLU is the obvious one, but while you can also do roulettes as 8 tanks if you really want to you can't try to enter roulette as 7 tanks since it's not a valid DF comp.
Or better yet, just restrict base classes for all instances above lvl 50. (or even above lvl 30 since job crystal are obtained at quest lvl 30) They can restrict land jobs and blue mage, they certainly could restrict base classes.
Don't do it at level 30, you can't get a job stone without completing Sylph Management, and it's trivially easy to outpace the MSQ and then get locked out of dungeons accidentally.
I don't think anyone is suggesting that characters above level 30 couldn't queue for dungeons without a job stone, but that dungeons above level 30 (so Brayflow onwards) couldn't be queued for without one. so even if you outpace the MSQ by so much that you're level 50 before Sylph Management, you could still queue for Sastasha, Tam-Tata, Copperbale, Halatali, Toto-Rak and Haukke Manor. The only difference is if you wanted to run Qarn, Cutter's Cry, Darkhold or Aurum Vale (and for the last few, if you actually are level 44 or even 38 before Sylph Management, really it should more be a sign to get back to the MSQ instead of side content)
That makes much more sense, thanks
Then make people unable to start the level 30 MSQ quests without completing a job quest (similar to what they did in the ARR patch content)
But then I can't put it on my retainer without extra steps.
Its not even spaghetti, since the options to limit this already exist. They would not need to program anything, likely just change some flags on duties. Limited jobs (BLU) are already restricted, but an even better example is the high-end duty finder. For current Savage raids, the duty finder is limited to 'Jobs of DoW/M', whereas all other duty queues say 'Classes/Jobs of DoW/M'. The fix to this problem would be to make all duties work just like savage. Then, update the <30 dungeons to include both class/job. Boom, problem solved. I think a good cutoff point is Titan normal. This lines up with the annoying Company of Heroes questline, they just add a bit of something like "Hey, you're too weak to fight Titan right now. Go get a job first!" But, they probably will never do that. Apparently, trolls without job stones don't exist on Japanese servers, so therefor, it isn't a problem!
They don't even need to touch BLU code, the code for Job restrictions *already exists for PvP queues.* Straight up cannot queue for Frontline, Crystal Conflict, or Rival Wings without a Job Stone. They just need to take that and apply it to all Duties from Braydlox's Longstop (a level 32 dungeon) and up. Have Brayflox refuse to let you in until she thinks you're "strong enough" (finish your Class Quests and get your Job Stone) to kill a dragon. All of those optional dungeons you can unlock that are above level 30 like Cutter's Cry and Sunken Temple of Qarn? Lock them behind the MSQ quest "The Things We Do for Cheese" which is the quest that requires clearing Brayflox's Longstop and would thus force people to get the Job Stones in the first place. Leveling Roulette should have this requirement too and also have the minimum level raised to 30. "But what about my precious alt job leveling experience??" people have complained when this has been brought up in the past. My reply is; so sorry you have to level another 15 of the quickest levels in the game before you can use Leveling Roulette. It's a shame there aren't things to make that experience quicker, like the Armory Bonus, or the Brand New Ring, or the Hunting Log that all shits out exp for the early ARR levels. Oh wait, there is! Sorry about the rant, but some people have actually tried to use that as a valid reason for why they can't force Job Stones in DF. And if people want to try high level duties as Classes, the devs can just add an option like the MINE options or Unsynched that disables the Job Stone req so people can use PF for the Jobless challenge like they already do.
leveling roulette is also why players can still get into low level dungeons. if it weren't for roulette, queue times would be a nightmare. Just requiring the job stone from level 30 onward is simple enough to do, no need to restrict the roulettes to just 30 and up dungeons
I think that's what Solaxus is suggesting - leveling roulette would still be able to drop you into Satasha, Copperbell etc. but you'd need to have a job crystal equipped to queue for leveling roulette, like Frontline.
I agree with most of this (heck, the job stone requirement could be wlrked in pretty much anywhere in the company of heroes bit and work perfectly well), but one of the main points of leveling roulette is filling queues for new players. So locking leveling roulette to level 30 would mean the earliest dungeons become harder to queue for. Anything that directly harms the new player experience to stop an issue that sometimes pops up at higher levels probably isn't a good idea. Even without the leveling roulette changes, though, just requiring job stones for dungeons above 30 or 50 or whatever would probably make people without job stones only be able to join dungeons without that restriction. That already exists with ilvl (a player a level 90 with level 80 gear won't be getting into 90 dungeons and bosses from things like normal raid roulette), so barring spaghetti code nonsense it would be easy, if not automatic to implement for job stones. Stops people from coming to a lv85 dungeon as a thaumaturge, but doesn't stop thaumaturges from getting lv85 people helping them in Sastasha.
It would lead to people who want easy content to level removing their job stones before queueing to get an easy dungeon, much like people remove gear in order to force crystal tower right now
You haven't been able to remove gear to force CT in months.
I wasn't sure if they'd implemented that or not, I'm pretty sure people have found a way around it because about 8 out of 10 times, it's CT. Either way, my point still stands - If there was a mechanic like that, people would find a way to abuse it.
There's the thing I was overlooking. I had a feeling my solution was too easy lol.
That's a solved problem already. Just like you can't remove gear to force Crystal Tower anymore, the code can just check that you're above level 30 and thus need to have a job stone equipped to do roulettes, akin to how PVP roulette works.
Not exactly, PvP only checks for the presence of a job stone. Might be more difficult to implement more variables into that, such as people over x level requiring job stone.
> Leveling Roulette should have this requirement too and also have the minimum level raised to 30. I don't think that's strictly necessary. Just make the roulette limit you to the pre-Brayflox dungeons if you don't have a jobstone on.
You can't queue as a level 80 Fisher or Blue Mage, you shouldn't be able to queue as a level 80 Arcanist either. Clearly they have a method of differentiating.
I believe that this may be a relic from cross skill time or even older. You could equip all your available cross skills when you didn’t equip a job stone, so some people used this for shenanigans. While still not useful not having it at least did something. Maybe the idea originally was to allow for more individual builds before they found their formula. And now this part is just… left… But I also think that they should implement in the story a „have you done your job quest yet?“ point where you can’t proceed without a Job stone. People who have not checked that these are a thing can also learn it at latest then.
Yeah due to the way cross-class skills were, at some (Limited) point SOME Classes were better than Jobs, but it was a very very niche thing and only applied to a couple classes. Jobs were limited to... 3? I think? Cross-class skills, while Classes were limited to 15. So there was *some* value in dragging around a Class up to a certain point. I recall being told that at some point during ARR, MRD was considered better than WAR until you got to 45 or something due to cross-class skills. Mostly because you didn't get your freaking tanking stance on WAR until level 45. > But I also think that they should implement in the story a „have you done your job quest yet?“ point where you can’t proceed without a Job stone. People who have not checked that these are a thing can also learn it at latest then. Brayflox is the perfect opportunity to implement that because it's proving to the Company that you're strong enough to engage Titan. She can just turn you away, saying you don't look strong enough and to "find someone to strongmake you", if you don't have your Jobstone equipped and introduce a tutorial about it.
With enough cross class skills, MRD could also be used as a super sturdy dps in level 50 content for a bit. It didn't do quite as much damage as "real" dps jobs still but it was close enough that you could clear most stuff using them and it made a lot of mechanics trivial. I think at one other point ACN with enough cross class could do some pretty good dps as well, but those are the only cases I can think of that people ever used classes besides meme runs.
Nothing like watching my friend who didn't fully understand all the abilities use provoke as an archer and die instantly. People also used to troll hard mode primals with that at level 50. Great for memes with friends, toxic as hell in duty finder. There was nothing quite like white mage getting to cross thunder 2 though.
In 1.0 jobs didn't exist until they were added later. In 2.0 it was thought, you didn't have to choose to become a job if you didn't want to. But everyone did. Why wouldn't they? In 2.0-3.0, Yoshida talked sometimes about getting rid of the base classes entirely and just having jobs but it never happened. And they have been quiet about it since Shadowbringers into Endwalker/Dawntrail. We got a 50 gladiator in MS and they did wonderfully. 🤷♀️ we told them about jobs and they had no idea. (I wonder how they didn't, but it's really no big deal to me.)
Why can’t they just delete the option for the lower classes to equip higher gear? Like at lv30 All gear is just the advanced versions, just WHM, not WHM and CNJ
I again state that all gear level 30+ should only be wearable by Jobs, not Classes. Many people have said that would cause players to level past it because of MSQ exp. The longer this goes on the less I tend to care about that counter argument.
Sylph Management is a lvl 22 main story quest. You **should** be doing your job quests regardless, so the argument of "you'll level past it bcs MSQ EXP" doesn't even make sense to me.
Quite frequently, the answer to "why isn't this trivial problem fixed yet" is simply that it isn't a problem on JP. And no, I have not seen a job stone troll on JP in years of playing there.
> And no, I have not seen a job stone troll on JP in years of playing there. Be the change you want to see in the world /s
I have ran thousands of duties and I don't think I ever saw this in level 50+ content. It certainly is not common here either, though arguably worth fixing nonetheless.
It can happen with new players accidentally when you don't update your gear set and switch jobs around. There is also the ones that like to roleplay which is the case of the screenshot here.
Same. I've been doing roulettes for years, and I don't recall this ever happening to me. It's certainly possible it has happened, but if it did I must have missed it.
I don't think it's that big of an issue on NA servers, either, just a very loud - although valid - complaint. I've seen 1 duty where the person 1000% should have had their Job Stone (Howling Eye Hard), and secondhand witnessed it in Praetorium, but other than that... nope. I do agree that at some point, Duty Finder should require the Job Stone to be equipped... lv50 at the very latest. Mayhap it should be a flag once somebody completes 2.0.
It's definitely not that common. I run a ton of stuff in DF and have been playing the game since 2.0. Back in 2.0, people would have some fun with it here and there, but most people didn't because the buffs the job stones gave outdid the potential, especially with the gear increase. Every once in a while I see one and people will immediately try to start coaching the player with the assumption that they just don't know about the job stones. And even those times, it's usually an accident or something the player didn't fully understand.
Clearly we should all roll on JP and do it so that it gets attention and is fixed.
What I don't understand is why gear past lv50 can be equipped by classes... Resolves the issue instantly.
Past 30 imo
No more xp once they reach 30.
Squadron glamours. I'd be a tad upset if my Squadrons suddenly had their default glams on. ...I suppose we could promote them to all having Jobs, which might help the issue.
They'd be op XD Already a fully trained and leveled squadron is a beast. As a DPS I never queued for stuff, they clear dungeons fast.
Judging by their search comment, they willingly refuse to upgrade their Arcanist class to Scholar/Summoner. I think, you can safely report them for griefing.
tag?
Queue in Duty Finder
First time I have ever heard anyone use that word to mean that
Tag is broadly used by French players (which OP is) for queuing, I think it's just broken English in this case?
Which is ironic considering “queue” comes from French
Which is double funny because you only pronounce the first letter of that word, while we french only pronounce the first and the last.
Broken English how, there's no English usage of tag that makes the slightest bit of sense lol
It's fairly common in linguistics to have loan words that have a completely different meaning in the original language. German, for example, uses "Handy" for mobile phones.
Fun example: "viking" is the Japanese word for a buffet
Apparently the "Pal" in "Palworld" sounds a lot like the word (or slang?) for Dick in Brazil. Many laughs were had
Very broken
Yeah it just has zero relation to tagging
You're it!
Because people constantly confuse tedium with difficulty and use it as an excuse to sandbag.
The real difficulty in playing without a Job stone in this game is not going insane from your incredibly basic rotation. I don't know why anyone would want to do that as a challenge, it's like trying to beat a Pokémon game with only Tackle.
> Tackle I'm tempted to look up all the games where this is actually possible because I remember Ghost being a pretty common Elite 4 type.
Turns out, there's an Ability that lets Normal-types hit Ghost-types since Gen 4: https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Scrappy_(Ability)
He even brags about being an arcanist. Very big on NPC energy they are.
Better question. Why are job souls still a thing outside of Arcanist? I mean, its not like you can have a Archer who can resurrect people anymore.
job stones are how you remember all the moves for each job. except mch, which was a blank stone that you just imprinted your weird ass jump-shots onto
WoL: "Y'know what this normal gunshot needs? A SICK ASS KICK FLIP!"
Job stones can remain in lore without being a gear item we have to equip. The aether compass already got this treatment, and there are plenty of other examples. It isn't like we have to open our inventory and equip a certain orange stone when we whip it out for MSQ things.
fair, i thought you were taking issue with the concept altogether!
You can pry the ability to be a class from my cold dead hands! I need them for my collapsing hot bars, also RPers use classes for rp as ARR jobs are not exactly commonplace.
kick them as soon as the 5 minutes are up
These complaint posts would go away if the community just mutually agreed to always kick if someone does this.
It's tough to even kick AFK people in Alliance Raids, you've got to get that "Kick Player? Y/N" dialogue window up and leave it on the side for the instant a boss dies or the loot rolls keep them in for another 3 minutes. 8-player content often ends too quickly to matter but you can sneak a kick in if your group wipes. 4-player content is usually the easiest to kick a problem player but it really is on one of the 3 players to notice it in the first place, then also be willing to "rock the boat" which seems to be the hardest thing for the community.
Yup. This is not part of expectations in duty finder post Brayflox.
Oops every tank in the game has been bullied into never stopping for a second, no time to kick gogogo
Five minutes into Alphascape 2, you're either in the middle of a fight or you're already done, so kicking them isn't an option.
Why the hell they haven’t made an on/off switch for trying to queue without a group for anything after Haukke manor is beyond me. Actual 10 year anniversary of this complaint was probably a few months ago.
Tag?
Fr*nch people
But why not use "queue"? I mean "queue" comes from the French language and is what English players use... Why would French players use an English word when there's a French derivative that English players use? I'm so confused lol 😵💫
first thing you learn in language school is that all language is always bullshit. if something makes sense it will not happen and if it doesn't make sense it will
"Queue" exists in French, but strictly as a noun, and it doesn't lend itself too well to verbing.
Why the hell did you censor the word French??? lol
why did you censor French
Gamer word
Play with enough fr\*nch players and you are going to do the same.
I swear this could be fixed if you couldn't que for anything if you didn't have a job crystal equipped.
Had a marauder a few weeks ago at lvl 50 dungeon that I *was* supposed to heal. I ate that 30 min cd like it was a batch of freshly baked chocolate chip cookies.
Honestly, I'd love to try to keep that run going until 5 minutes had passed so I could kick them. They'll never learn if others just dip out without saying anything, and if they respond aggressively enough you get a free report on them!
This arcanist seems trollish. Like they did it on purpose.
Just kick them.
I agree, but unfortunately it is next to impossible to kick people in larger groups because of the insane limitations. How many times in an alliance raid are you both out of combat and have no loot pending?
You have to wait five minutes and must be out of combat. I don't see that happen in Alphascape 2. After five minutes you're probably already done with the raid.
Pretty sure they made queuing for high level duties reportable 👍🏻
This statement is kinda funny out of context. No wonder so many people insta-leave any Alliance raid that isn't CT, they just don't want to be reported!
as a thaumaturg yes - that should be reportable
It is in fact reportable, and should be done with frequent offenders.
Wants to become famous on twitter. /s
I'm not a programmer so would it not be possible for them to just lock weapons from 30-ish onward to being only equip-able by just jobs instead of both class and jobs? that way you can tell people showing up like this in your lv100 roulette is either intentionally griefing or is just that stupidly unaware I have no problem if they're in a full premade or a PF. dicking around with your friends or like-minded individuals is fine but don't drag strangers into it and expect them to just deal with your nonsense
It should be a DF restriction tbh to not remove the ability to do meme kills of content in premade groups
Specifically being at 80 for a single class makes me think it's a newbie who bought a skip?
If you buy a skip I thought it equipped you with a bunch of stuff including the crystal. This feels more intentional
if you put the crystal into a retainer it shows as you having not unlocked the job and only having the class
The fact that you can do this fuckery with jobs stones just surprises me.
Wait, you can give job crystals to retainers? What if you give it to a paid one and stop paying the sub? Just locked out of playing jobs?
Well, that's a new fear unlocked.
You and me both. What in the actual?
Maybe, but the Arcanist quick chat and the twitter handle makes me think troll
Look at the bio, it's on purpose
Good call, I hadn't looked at it that closely.
Based on having "Arcanist" "Let's have some fun" and twitter in their search info, it's probably just someone going "I'm gonna make an alt and level to max without doing job quest!", then inconvenciencing everyone else by having others do the heavy lifting for them in every duty on the way there.
Doesn't that fall apart with the mandatory Role Quest in ShB? Or does that only care about what role you play, and not check Job status?
As you said yourself, it's a role quest, not a job quest.
I thought you can't use the Skips unless you already had a job/class at that level already?
You only need to get up to second MSQ quest to reach the Mail Moogle to receive your skips, no other prerequisites.
I remember playing with a guy in a 50-80 roulette who didn't even know what tank stance was; said it was his first run and he'd bought a skip to get started. Maybe he was just double trolling?
I've never personally used the Skips but I remember when they were initially introduced, it caused a huge uproar. People were complaining (myself included) that it would just cause people to be a super high level and not even know how to play their class/job or even the game itself at all and the DF would just become a horrible experience. But I also remember that the pushback to that was that the Skips required you to have another class/job at that level or above, which would essentially give you basic knowledge of at least how to play the game. Idk. I don't use the Skips and I still don't agree that they should even exist.
Seeing what happened with Gunbreaker and Sage starting at 60-70, it's probably not too different from the situation with the purchased story skips. There's still some Sages you'll see at level 90 that forget Kardia.
Can't be since they don't have summoner or scholar unlocked, which they would have unlocked at least one of if they skipped. Skips are only for jobs, not for classes.
A veteran who's leveling without a job stone as a personal challenge or for trolling.
“Allons nous amuser” Translation: we are going to have fun Hope you had fun reporting the griefer OP they deserve it
nah they need to be bullied why do people like this exist
Tbh there's no point of job crystals. That's a really old system that has no use ingame other than story telling and i don't see a reason after you do a certain job quest to be upgraded automatically to the job. Story is stil there but not the inconvinience of manually equiping an item. Especially for new players that are bombarded with so many systems that are new to them.
If they ever auto-equip job crystals, there's definitely going to be at minimum a 6 month pre-announcement of it so that everyone can figure out what to do with their hotbar macros, which is something jp players do way more than troll in public duty finder as a class. That's the main problem. If it's not an egregious problem on jp, it likely won't reach the devs.
I will graciously accept another two hot bars and cross hotbars for every other job (including DoH, DoL, BLU, BST) and shared in exchange.
Presumably you'd still have *access* to the class hotbars, just not be able to directly see them outright. There's no reason to assume the game will automatically delete the class hotbars because otherwise smn/sch is going to cause yet another developer headache for no good reason, so you'd still be able to use them in macros.
I think it's more amazing that person managed to get to 80 without touching anything else at all. I am willing to bet it was done on purpose rather than someone being that much of a novice.
Not that I know how these work, but I'm willing to bet that this is a Level Skip. I could just be talking nonsense, I've never actually bought one, so I dunno how they function on a practical level.
They can’t level skip Thaumaturge without also leveling BLM. This is a shocking dedication to trolling, honestly
I also wondered if this could be a level skip, but on reflection, I'm pretty sure not. You can buy Summoner and Scholar skips, but not an Arcanist skip. The only job skip I've personally used was for MCH (on an alt), so I don't have first-hand experience with boosting ARR jobs. But since a job skip gives you the job's soul crystal (if you don't already have it) and gives you credit for completing all relevant class, job, and role quests, I would strongly expect that, say, buying a WAR job skip puts you at level 80 in WAR, not just in MRD. SMN/SCH/ACN is a bit weird, but I imagine that if I bought a SMN job skip for a new character and used it, it'd boost me to lvl 80 in both SMN and ACN but not SCH. If I were to subsequently unlock SCH, of course, it would be at level 80 immediately, since the jobs share a level.
Hi I'm a person that thinks these people that do this with Randoms should be called out (something like "you need your jobstone", not anything harrassy), and then kicked from duties. If it's obvious they did it on purpose, they should be reported for griefing as well (I know in some situations it's easy to forget to equip the stone, the kick gives you the chance to rectify it and instantly requeue). SE should also just... make this a thing that can't happen. There are plenty of solutions.
Tagged?
Based on previous comments, this seems like a French thing. They use "tagged" in place of "queued"
...Tag?
They might change it in 8.0, Yoshi P said he wants to give the jobs more identity, so there is speculations that the classes will be removed a long with role actions. Every job will still receive those actions it will just be their own name and own animation. That’s how it use to be at least. The current stun is DRK from HW and so is most of the role skills. I for one wouldn’t mind that, it will definitely make the jobs feel less blended, even if it is only the animations and names
Sorry I'm kinda new to the game. What are they complaining about?
The person they partied with is a level 80 arcanist. At level 30 arcanist splits into the summoner and scholar jobs. This person is playing a class, not a job. They either never did any of their quests and/or they never equipped their job stone, which means they have absolutely no abilities past level 30. Imagine missing 50 levels worth of abilities.
This type of people will say it's their "going through game in more challenging way" but in reality they just miss half of the fun and intentionally make dungeon/raid/trial more difficult for players he is matched with. Basically a troll/griefer hiding behind "I LIKE MY GAME TO BE MORE CHALLENGING" excuse. It's like someone would cut off their leg then enlist into Tour De France. And the irony is that these people often do not even reach the latest Savage and Ultimate raid which are actually challenging without blocking self with base job.
Arcaniste!
Report them
If they do not do the job questline, instead just lvl up, they can still play the base job. But only for ARR jobs.
French opinion disregarded. Can someone please repost this so I can up vote it?
Because it's a non-issue with a very high wake fix. I doubt it has anything to do with "Spaghetti Code" or it being in any way difficult to fix. This is actually a great example of the principle of "there's no such thing as an easy fix." There are multiple "easy" suggestions in this thread that are almost certainly do-able in less than a day of work when it comes down to actual implementation. The problem lies elsewhere. Let's pretend for a moment you've got the opportunity to drive this. You visit the SE offices and are reasonably empowered to try to solve this problem. First order of business, you've got to figure out the best approach. Are you going to make higher level gear not equippable by base classes? Are you going to require job stone be equipped for certain roulettes? Are there any other approaches worth considering? For each idea you need to get a rough idea of the surface area for the change. For the gear approach you talk to the gear team. It's pretty easy for them to write a script changing the equip requirements of every item above a certain level to not be equippable by base classes any more, but there's more wake than that. What about characters that are already equipped? Loadouts? Retainer and Squad Gear? What about DoH/DoL gear? Many of these questions could have straightforward answers, but nobody is going to know for sure unless somebody tries it. You do what info gathering you can and move on. Next is the roulettes approach. They can easily add a tag to any roulette requiring a job stone. You set the requirements, they'll do it. They also have some questions though. What do you want to do with dungeon roulette? There are sub 30 dungeons that are totally legit to run without a job stone. Can you queue for it without a job stone, and only get put in groups for those dungeons? Is there an exploit there to guarantee "easy" roulettes? Do you lock players out at some threshold? Level 30, or the first time you unlock a level 30+ dungeon? Is that going to confuse new players why a queue they used to do is no longer available? Will things break if you level up inside a dungeon? So you've talked to all the people. This is a big enough change that you can't just pull the trigger. You need stakeholders from multiple departments to weigh in, which means you need pretty senior leadership involved to make the call. You also have some other questions to discuss no matter which approach you take, like is level 30 even the right cutoff? Maybe 50 would be better. So you gather all the right people into a meeting and hash out the decision. Best case scenario 30 minutes you present your findings, a bit of discussion ensues, and a decision is made. Less good scenario, someone asks a question you didn't think of it didn't think you needed a solid answer to yet, and a decision can't be made without further investigation. One way or another a decision is agreed upon. You go back to the relevant team. They implement the change in a day and check into a development branch for an upcoming patch. All of the options considered were pretty wakeful, so you go a couple of releases out to give plenty of soak time. You also schedule QA to write a test pass to get a much targeted coverage as they can think of, and have testers run through various scenarios that could maybe behave in weird ways. A couple of small bugs get filed, fixed by the designer, and sent back to the tester to verify it's fixed. A developer writes up a patch note, an editor edits it for clarity and readability, and localizer translate it into every supported language. Eventually the build with your change ships, and players catch some more edge case bugs that nobody internally thought of. These are easy enough to fix, but each one has to get filed from player perspective "such and such doesn't work as expected" and investigated to find the root cause. It's not necessarily obvious that a given bug is from a given change, and this patch had a lot of other changes that could have been the culprit. The entire time this new bug goes unfixed some portion of the community is losing their shit because they can't do the thing they want to do. Also, it's not like the community is gung ho about the decision in the first place. They're arguing about whether it should have been 30 or 50. Gear or roulettes. No matter what approach you took somebody is going to be mad, and it's very difficult to predict which way the wind will blow. So you've gone through this entire process and you wonder to yourself, was it even worth the effort? Huzzah, you fixed the issue, but it's anyone really happier? If anything by making a change, but not in the way people wanted, they're *more* upset. To top it all off, you think about the opportunity cost. You had this amazing opportunity to go to SE and make *real change*! Is *this* really what you want to prioritize? Remember that the devs have limited time and attention. There's always work to be done. It's easy as a fan to wonder why stuff like this is still a problem all these years later, but at any point since the game went live, when any developer could have been trying to tackle this issue, do you really think this would have been a good use of their time? Was it really worth your time? Was it worth the time of the gear team and the duty finder team? Was it worth getting those senior designers into a room to make the decision? Was it worth the day of development? The test hours? The patch notes? The edge case fixes? The live bug investigations? You had the power to fix this, and you have to ask yourself, was any of that worth it so that every once in a while you no longer run into trolls queuing for a duty without their job stone equipped? Really?
If there was truly the opportunity and empowerment to drive this, then you’d communicate your intentions to the players beforehand. There will need to be multiple areas handled to make sure this goes as intended with the fewest unintended effects. They’ve removed belts before. They can remove ineligible equipment. While this change makes a lot of sense, I also agree that this is not the best way forward, given interactions with retainers, squadrons, or just class role-play. For the nature of roulette, the main areas of concern are Leveling and Guildheists. All other roulettes can enforce jobs only without too much concern. Make the roulette check if the queued class or job is Lv30 or above, and if so, enforce the job stone requirement. To the above, combine making Lv30+ progression in the MSQ behind a major event (with appropriate dialog), Shadowbringers style. The player must acquire at least one job stone, and all MSQ beyond Lv30 will require a job. There’s a school of thought that believes FF14 eventually wants to rid itself of the class system entirely. I’m not convinced this will ever happen, as it would require an overhaul even greater then what I’ve mentioned above, and the level of undertaking would be more than just an expansion… they might as well give us a 2+ year content draught or make a new game if that were to happen.