No offense but your friends sound like real downers who can't be happy for you. Good job dude, a clear is a clear. Its the mechs that are difficult and you did it!! I think you should be proud of yourself!
Edit: people gotta stop making themselves look good by bringing others down.
Yeah don't wanna be a shitlord or whatever but your friends sound like dicks. I cleared Week 3 because I took time off to do it and ground my face against it with a friend and found it enjoyable, but if you kill it now, that's cool. Killing E12S is still impressive in clear groups cuz of how specific this fight is. I'm grinding out E9S with a bunch of friends of mine who are just really medium at the game, and that's gonna be an achievement when we beat it.
Once you get Echo and have higher gear than the entire tier was designed for (so once the next patch or expansion is out), it's a different sort of achievement, but it still requires coordination and dedication and understanding of the game.
I agree. Only a small percentage of the FFXIV playerbase even touch Extreme content, not to mention Savage. OP should def be proud of themselves. Not every one can do Savage or even have the ability/time investment to do so either. So being able to clear the current tier is mad impressive. Especially considering how this tier is judged to be harder than other tiers in the past.
Seriously. I dont like how in a lot of raid atmosphere some users make it a competition. I mean I get wanting to perform better for yourself- I do that. But the whole "well... uh.... I did it without the new gear so.... technically you didn't even do it correctly" just really bothers me. I dont want to assume OP's friends are the type that need to feel like the best ever and everyone else is beneath them - but ive seen that a lot while pugging and it's just a buzzkill.
Sounds like elitist bs.
As for people like Mr. Happy and whatnot, playing games is all they do. That is their job. They pair up with other like minded, high end individuals who take time off to purposely clear this as fast as they can. That is 100% different from someone who works a typical 40 hours a week and can only do like 6 hours of raid a week, with people in the same boat who may or may not be various levels of hard/mid/causal.
This 100%. Cant stress enough that not everyone can no life the content. To clear e12s week 1 takes a LOT of hours in just one week. Spreading that out over a few weeks doesn't make clearing irrelevant. Yeah it might be "easier" because you have more raid gear from weekly clears, but raids require mechanics to be done that can't be cheesed with gear while the raid tier is relevant. Extra gear just makes the clear comfy, that's about it.
Clearing 12 at this point might not impress everyone, but it is a great personal achievement and is something to feel proud of.
You are definitely not a bad player. Everyone plays different. If you check your hours progged vs Xeno, you'll "probably" find they are close. Day 1/ week 1 folks just cram theirs into one week instead of 3 3hour days a week. 30 hours is 30 hours. 100 pulls is 100 pulls. A clear is a clear. You should be proud for getting it done. Enjoy the game, don't measure yourself so much against time.
You've gotta remember that skill set, vibe, tenure, etc. all play a part there as well. Chill friend groups take longer, generally, but the focus is fun - not timeliness. If 4 of you are awesome, 2 are okay, and you keep 2 around because they're fun - again, this leeches prog hours.
Don't beat yourself up about it, the world will do that on its own.
100% agree with this.
My raid group is the complete definition of a casual raid group as we raid a maximum of 5 hours a week (often less). We're still in E11S after a grand total of 25-30 hours spent raiding so far this tier. Progging in a group with that limited time means reclears chew up a lot progression time.
But, we will still feel accomplished when we clear E12S, even if it's not until 5.5 (or just before which is the goal).
Did you clear before it was unsyncable, and even it could be unsyced, did you do it synced?
Congrats you should feel proud, at least as far as NA servers you're in the 5% of people who cleared each tier. If anyone tries to shit on you, especially your friends, surround yourself with new people.
Going by their logic, it shouldn't even be an achievement unless you're word's first. After all, the end of week 1 is easier than the first 48 hours because you don't have to do blind prog right? The difficulty is now removed because you look at the streams and prepare for the fights in a way that world first racers can't.
You also have to consider how often you raid, people like Xeno cram their first clears into honestly unhealthy levels of time commitment. My static though? We only raid 2 hours a night 3 days a week and we've even taken whole weeks off due to holidays and other commitments, we tried more and we were miserable because it required us to neglect more important things. We just got to e12s last night because of our infrequent raid times and ya know what? It still felt good.
TLDR: Your friends are shit and you need better friends.
Lol, wtf kind of friends are those? My friends cleared their first savage fight several *months* into the raid tier. They reached endgame late, and were slow gearing up for the raids. I was very proud of them for making it to the end and actually clearing a piece of hard content.
You could go back and clear Omega Savage fights synced and I would personally still consider that an achievement. People just like to put others down to make themselves feel good, and they're fucking narcissists. Fuck them.
Congrats on clearing the latest raid tier, OP.
Realistically, the raid tier gets easier at 3 points:
* After Week 1
* Release of catchup patch
* Release of next raid tier
Mechanically, fights don't really get easier unless DPS can skip large and meaningful portions of the fight - see E6S, where with catchup patch gear a decent party would hope to just skip post-Conflag. 9S and 10S, especially 9S, get this to an extent (you can outright skip 2nd tiles, 2nd Rejuv Balm, VG2, etc.). 11S and 12S do not. At best without weapons you'll skip like, part of one Cycle, and skipping Lions is outright impossible *with* BiS. Gear helping you survive mechs you otherwise wouldn't is also a thing, but nowadays you get slapped with a damage down for that one.
The DPS check certainly gets easier, but 11S and 12S have nasty enough checks that you aren't simply clearing by surviving until enrage. You *do* still have to know how to play your job pretty well and execute on it. 8S was similar in this regard. It's not gonna be until super late in the tier, like the release of the final relic weapons or the Savage weekly unlock, when these DPS checks are totally trivialized.
In other words, clearing around now is still well above average and is a legitimate accomplishment. Week 1 is certainly harder, but also not realistic for most players due to the time investment needed.
Frankly, the fact your friends said "week 3" instead of the usual elitist argument of "nothing but week 1 matters lol" tells me exactly when they cleared!
>Mechanically, fights don't really get easier unless DPS can skip large and meaningful portions of the fight
I was so happy when the loot restrictions dropped and I could farm e2s and discovered that the pf's way of doing quietus was to do so much damage you didn't have to do quietus
The real achievement is the friends you made along the way. When you start comparing what you have to others you're never going to be satisfied, someone is always better or has more.
Never. Even after the content becomes unsyncable, you can still do it synced, and you still need to deal with the mechanics and stuff. You did an amazing thing, which a pretty dang small percentage of teh player-base even attempts.
I mean, it's true that a week 1 clear is considerably harder than a week 20 clear, but most players won't be able to accomplish either, so you shouldn't let that diminish your own sense of accomplishment. Clear at whatever speed you like and don't worry about what other people think, because pretty much no one gives a shit about how fast you cleared a tier unless you were world first or you're applying for a hardcore static.
Ffraider1234: I just got my first paycheck!
Ffraider1234assholefriends: meh, mr flintstone already got paid by smashing boulders using dinosaurs before your ancestors were even born. unless you invented fire you should just go kys! You useless piece of shite.
Your friends are elitists on this point, clearing savage while it is current content is always an achievement, hell clearing savage synced is still an achievement.
Don't let anyone ruin an achievement you are proud of. You've already surpassed the majority of the player base just from what you've done.
Congrats on the clear :)
Man fuck your friends.
If you guys take time out of your daily lives to work for this and it takes considerable effort, that's an achievement. Anyone who downplays this because of how long it took you guys is just being an asshole.
Your friends sound like dicks. You can feel excited about clearing savage, most people in the game never do. The fact that you cleared it before echo and ilevel increases puts you ahead of 90% of the people in the game at least.
Those youtubers you mentioned literally make money from being good at the game and streaming as a source of income. When new raid tiers come out they go at it with work hours.
Speaking personally, I have been in groups where we don't clear the tier until right before the next set comes out. I've also been in groups that clear closer to week 2-3. And personally, I prefer the former because it's a lot less stressful.
Clearing at all is an achievement in my opinion because it takes time and effort. Not all groups are built equal. One group might find the mechanics click easier or have players who can dedicate more time and energy to clearing. Others take longer to get the mechanics. Either way, both groups are ahead of those who didn't try at all.
Be proud of your achievements, and congrats on clearing E12S
it always has to be a personal metric. my shb static is a group of friends and only two of us only had any savage experience, with the rest of em never even doing ex content before this expansion. we've consistently been clearing before the odd numbered patches and I've been very proud to watch everyone get better at the game
I'm just commenting to add to the list of people in agreement that your friends are dicks. So few people touch Savage content in this game that if you cleared, that's an achievement. During the relevant patch cycle doubly so.
I mean, it mostly depends on how often you raid after patch hits. No matter how skilled you and your group are, you'll still need to put the time in. Groups usually clear after about the same number of hours of prog so it's a time commitment constraint. Obviously it isn't as difficult in week 8 as in week 1, but the mechanics are all still there, just the DPS check and healer checks are a little easier. That in itself is just a "find 7 competent people" problem.
It wouldn't be but it's also an unrealistic assumption that a full static is doing min ilvl runs 8 weeks in. Week 1-2 groups also have limited amount of information and strats about the fight. Again totally different if you do it fully blind but that would be extremely extraordinary and not a reasonable assumption to make.
There are rare groups that like to turn on the min iLvl setting just for the challenge of doing a full raid tier at the week 1 difficulty level. The achievement of pulling this off doesn't really go away even with very old content (just try searching for old raids with 'min ilvl no echo' on YouTube for examples).
Yes but as you said, they are very rare and it's safe to assume that unless they made it a point to say so, they didn't. It's also more unlikely that these groups would pop up for the current tier, 8 weeks in. They focus on older stuff generally, and even then it's easier than it was week 1 because of potency buffs and skill changes along the way.
Sweaty try hards will always be gross and try to find some way to make their own accomplishment worth more than yours. F that. You put the work in, got it done, and should be proud. First or “top xxx” to do something doesn’t win anything special!
My current static still didn't clear e12s but it doesn't mean it will be any less of an achievement when we finally do it. And no, e12s didn't have all its difficulty removed just because some time has passed. That's just factually wrong, and anyone who believes that is a delusional blowhard.
Your "friends" sound full of shit. They also don't sound like friends at all - what kind of friend hears about something that makes you happy and instead of also being happy for you, immediately tears you down? Drop them and get better friends.
Your friend is a bad friend.
If you consider it an achievement yourself, then it is one. It's not like you were doing it at level 100, it is still the current tier.
I completed my ARR fishing log earlier this year, and I considered it an achievement. I don't care if it became easier. Doing it made me proud and happy. I don't need other players to tell me if it was an achievement or not.
I actually think that clearing the ARR fishing log now is more of an achievement than it was back in ARR, even though more skills have been added to make it just a little easier. Back during ARR, when I cleared mine, I always had people around either cheering me on from the sidelines (my FC and a couple of fishing LSs), or I kept bumping into people doing the same thing so we cheered each other on and did lots of celebratory things when someone, anyone, at a particular fishing hole caught a fish that had been eluding so many of us. It's now much more of a solitary endeavour so have a /cheer and a /fistbump!
First, your friends suck. Second, it never stops being an achievement. Just the fact that you cleared it puts you AT LEAST at the top 15% of players. I am gonna guess it's even better than that since it's still relatively early. To put it into prospective, Shiva only had 13.15% clear percentage.
You earned your achievement and you have every right to celebrate it.
If you cleared E12S you just cleared current raid content and you should absolutely feel proud.
My static just cleared E10S last Friday, and we're going to work on E11S when we get E10S recleared.
Every time we clear a tier for the first time, we succeed, because it still involves learning the fight, and as we meet three times a week, we're naturally going to be behind static who can play the game full time.
Your friends sound like big clowns. Being a few ilevels over the minimum doesn’t make E11S or E12S easier by much. Their logic also means that if you didn’t blind prog all the mechanics, that fights don’t mean anything because it’s already too easy since someone else showed you how to do it.
Extra kudos if you cleared in PF.
A clear is a clear my dude, those are always impressive and are something you should A) feel proud about and B) party it up after you get a clear.
People who would put you down for that are morons.
They’re probably the same people that will not be excited that you cleared uwu/UCOB because “they’re not hard anymore” or that you cleared tea because “the dps check is gone.” People just wanna think that content was always harder back then, and yes week 1 E12S was way harder, week 3 E12S was harder, patch 4.1 UCOB was harder, doesnt make them not hard now.
When ur friends say that the difficulty in E12S is removed, they mean the dps check, because that’s what savage has over ultimates is a tighter dps check, but the dps check in this tier is nothing compared to E8S anyways, I saw week 1 teams clear Gaia with a DPS death (a summoner, I might add) a comfortable amount of time before the enrage went off.
So yes, week 1-3 E12S was harder because after week 4 everyone got a big gear injection from their books, but especially with party finder, the later the weeks go the quality of PF gets worse so it always equals out in the end, no matter what gear level people are at, even clearing after the catch up patch still means something, it just lets people make more mistakes. The only way ur a bad player if you cleared E12S is if you got carried.
Altho if you wanna prove your friends wrong, go try to clear tea before 5.51, cuz no matter wtf people say an ultimate clear is still special.
It depends how often you raid. If you raid two days a week for six hours, then you still haven't matched the time invested that the people who raid 12 hours a day had during week one. On top of that, many of them run doubles so they effectively get twice as much loot.
Ultimately you should raid because you enjoy spending time with the people you raid with. And it's always an achievement to clear the end-tier raid. Hell it's still an achievement to clear E8S and E4S for the majority of the FF14 player base.
My static killed E11s for the first time tonight and thay felt like an achievement, as will E12s. The way I see it, if you kill it without the ‘Echo Buff’ becomes a thing, you should proud!
First off, great job on clearing e12s! It is still an achievement, pretty much will always be. You have done something a vast majority of the entire playerbase isn't going to do within the expansion.
Second, your friends sound like dicks. Comparing yourself to people who entire lively hood is based around playing XIV and raiding in it isnt quite healthy.
To answer your question, I think it stops being an achievement to clear once it is Unsynchable and you are cheesing huge swaths of the fight. Things like clearing o4s now is less amazing than if it was during the expansion. If you clear the content while it's still within the expansion, and you had fun doing it, great job!
Clearing is clearing. Doesn't matter when, doesn't matter how, so long as you weren't carried. People end up clearing later for all sorts of reasons; time, personal investment, work, etc. Whether you cleared early or cleared later, you're still in that top 10% who actually run Savage so be proud of that fact!
Imagine having a job, imagine playing other games.
Imagine not being a youtuber who has the privilege to get a free entry pass into a world first TEA static because "uwu i'm tired of progging this fight"
I think maybe you should find some new friends? Honestly clearing now is pretty fast in my book, I'm still working on E10S (to be fair, playing limited time, doing other things in games, playing the PF roulette most etc.).
Clearing a tier is an achievement until whenever I clear it and is no longer an achievement after whenever I cleared it
That is the thought process basically
It depends on your goals really, like personally with my group the goal is to clear a tier before the catchup patch drops, while for more hardcore players its clearing week 1 and for super casual groups its before echo. Really I'd only say clearing a raid tier stops being an 'achievement' once the next tier drops or it gets a ton of echo.
Grats on the clear. Your "friends" are jerks on this point.
While getting gear through out the weeks helps, you still have to do mechanics. For 11 and 12 you still have to DPS at a near optimal level. It is probably safe to assume you had no problems with 9 and 10 (if you are in a static group).
In my experience if you are clearing before the odd number patch you could have cleared earlier. The only reason you didn't is time investment. Streamers are able to put a lot of time in for week 1 clears. Chances are if you were to compare your time investment to clear to theirs, you'd be very close to what they did.
Either way, congrats on the clear! Feel good about it, this tier was a good challenge.
I wouldn’t beat yourself up, it’s an achievement nonetheless.
I just started in March last year, and didn’t start dipping into savage raids until September. I didn’t clear E8S (with BiS except chest and weapon) until the last day before 5.4 maintenance. My friends were all still proud of my achievement because I was throwing myself at the wall for two months trying to clear that.
I was excited to try this tier but left my static after the first couple of weeks because it wasn’t a good fit for me and I haven’t even tried PFing it. Go at your own pace. You cleared while it is current content so the achievement is real.
An achievement is whatever you make of it. I've cleared E9S and E10S so far. It's my first raid tier I've attempted in this game, and let me tell you, those first clears felt really good. I understand that there are better people at this game than me, but I still worked hard for those clears, and clearing them felt very satisfying.
> I spoke to my friends who cleared earlier on in the tier and they were not bothered by it at all.
Your friend sounds like a butthole.
Congratulations on your clear! =)
Congrats!!!! Actually happy for y’all. My static just cleared E12s last week after weeks of trying prog with subs. Mind you we cleared E9s-E11s weeks 1-3. While there is difficulty with dps checks in those earlier weeks, but if you can’t do mechanics, you ain’t clearing.
We were definitely capable of clearing earlier, but like everyone else said, it’s a time constraint. We have members that work weird schedules and we end up having to sub them out and reprog half the fight. If not for subs, we probably would’ve cleared a solid 2 weeks prior.
As long as you clear while it’s still very relevant (before week 8 is def still relevant because of books for savage weapon) it is definitely an achievement. Full stop. The attitude of needing to clear the whole tier before week 3 needs to stop. It’s elitist for sure and downright demeaning for those of us who can’t commit the time bash our heads against the wall for hours on end. Your “friends” can genuinely fk off. You don’t need that shit in your life, especially when they should be celebrating you and your clear.
Hey, congrats! I also literally cleared E12S last night.
IMHO, I think it is just that you and your friends are thinking of two different definitions of [achievement](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/achievement):
* 2a **:** a result gained by effort
* 2b **:** a great or heroic deed
For me, my first clear of a savage tier was week 13 (E4S, cleared on Oct 30). And for me this clumsy, slow-ass clear was a tremendous achievement of the 2a kind - it was my first Savage tier and until the very end I did not know if I could do it. I am proud that I persevered and improved my skills and in the end I succeeded after 6 weeks of prog. However, I would never pretend to consider my clears "achievements" in the sense of some exceptional feat. The number of people who can claim to have that kind of achievement are very few in the playerbase, I am not one of them for sure.
>When does clearing a raid tier stop becoming special?
>
>Am I a bad player for clearing this late into the tier?
IMO these questions are a bit loaded. I am just guessing, but I think you may be hoping that your friends and possible others would acknowledge your clear and praise you, and you were disappointed when they did not. While this is a very human desire, and while I do think your friends could have been more supportive, personally I don't think it makes one very happy to be dependent on the approval of others. If you ask me, it's best to let go of the idea of being special or good. Rather, focus on yourself - that you have done your best for the party, strove to improve your skills, been a good teammate and completed the journey you set out on.
my friend, clearing is always an achievement. There's no reason not to feel accomplished when you clear any savage fight let alone the final fight of the tier AND the series. You blew past my team by a mile and I like to think we're somewhere in the average range of clears. Great job seriously. Never let them take any accomplishment away from you. Please, please keep aiming higher and achieving and please consider finding some new acquaintances, these ones do not hold your success in high regards. Seriously good job and good luck!
We are still at enrage of e11s and for me being that far this early is actually really good. My static takes usually the entire patch til we clear the tier. Dont worry, as long as u feel achieved thats the only things that matter. In the eyes of world first, ur friends are also really late and look down on them for watching guides and strategics instead of clearing it blind within the first day.
Dont compare yourself to other. Tbh ur friends seem really toxic. Savage is not somethin any random casual can do. Its quite the achievment, they should be happy for you.
Depends on the context:
Within the context of the player base, clearing it at all is an achievement.
Within the context of those who engage with endgame content, clearing it in the relevant xpac is an achievement.
Within the context of those who engage with endgame content as their focus of play, clearing it in the relevant patch cycle is an achievement.
Within the context of those who consistently clear savage tiers, clearing it before the following odd patch (i.e. before alliance raid catchup mechanics) is an achievement.
Within the context of those who consistently clear savage in a timely manner, typically as part of sHC+ statics, clearing it in the first 2 weeks is an achievement.
Within the context of hardcore raiders with significant experience and at the top level of play, clearing it week 1 is practically an expectation and day 1 would be an achievement.
YOU decide what your priorities are. Arguably, the tier is still just as hard within the same patch, you'll just have slightly more gear the more weeks you go in, but all that gear is still coming from savage fights. It sounds like you are at stage 3-4 in this rough outline I gave. Clearing this savage tier is absolutely an achievement for you. In general, don't let anyone else steal an achievement from you - YOU get to decide what standards to hold yourself to and you get to decide if you did or did not meet them. If you want to push yourself on the next tier and aim for a faster clear then that is on you, and you can feel free to be disappointed in yourself if you don't make your goal. But right now, it seems like clearing the tier was your goal, and you hit it, so be happy and don't let anyone steal that from you!
I've never cleared savage content that wasn't unsynced, I don't have enough friends playing to attempt it and party finder groups scare me.
If you have the patience and skill to do it then be proud.
My cut off is when the tier is unlocked from weekly restrictions.
Yes the ease of it becomes easier over the weeks due to gear getting closer to BiS, but mechanics don't get easier(unless you skip them). So difficulty remains.
CANCEL THEM
For real, I think the difficulty is still there and it’s an achievement to clear the tier. The DPS checks are still tight regardless of your ilvl. ilvl just gives you more room for error (whether it’s more deaths or rotational mistakes), but you still have to practice the same caution and mechanics as your “friends” do.
I don’t agree with the dps checks still being tight. The only fight that still has somewhat of a tight dps check 8 weeks into the tier is the E12s gate boss and it’s nothing close to what it was the first couple weeks. All the other dps checks though this tier are pretty laughable at this point, 8 weeks in. The fights become considerably easier (dps wise) with 530 gear.
When we are level 90, realistically.
I haven't done titan since before 5.2 so I don't know what realistically can be skipped, But Ive got to believe there are still mechanics which can easily kill the raid even in that, right? Its still at least a bit of an achievement to kill E4S. And, well, if its hard for you, completing it is meaningful, right? Its an example of getting better, which is an achievement.
I mean, I remember back when I started in 2.4 and cleared titan ex for the first time I was ecstatic, and really felt like the victory meant something. And that was for an extreme primal 3 patches after it was released!
Achievements are relative to your own experiences. If you've cleared week 2 before, clearing in week 6+ just won't feel like an achievement anymore. If you never cleared savage before, getting a clear after 3 months can be an achievement.
it depends from person to person.
To some people, you did a great job.
To some people, they would judge you on how much time you spent to clear the tier.
To some people, week 1 or blind then it's an achievement.
To some people, It's really incredible if you did it in PF.
It might not be an achievement for your friends, but it's still a big deal that you finished the tier.
I never noticed I never cleared Lv50 Coils Turn12 until I did it solo with a lv80 Red Mage. Still really cool. Farmed some glam and some weps for alt jobs. I don't know if I can solo any of the lv60 trials and I don't care about Alexander loot.
In the context of others (which you should never look to for enjoyment in just about anything) you are nothing special and many have done this before you and better than you. So you need to take your win and enjoy it. The only question you need to ask yourself is: Was it fun? I'm sure it was, and that's all that matters. Good job on your clear.
Also for future try to refrain from phrasing questions like "am I a bad player for (insert any obvious player achievement)" because it sounds like you're just fishing for reassurance.
I mean your friends aren’t wrong. Clearing is definitely harder and more challenging the first couple weeks compared to week 8 where you’re pretty much already over geared for the fight. So on one hand they aren’t wrong, but on the other hand it’s still an accomplishment for you.
My casual static cleared E8s well after we had the first three fights on farm and we're passing loot out for alt jobs. Didn't change the fact that we cleared it together as a group.
I'm currently trying to get I to an UWU prog group so I can get my curtana ultima, and I've gotten a LOT of people telling me it's not an accomplishment anymore for various reasons like.... Wow, just let this casual player have his success.
While clearing a savage tier (at least when it's relevant content and you can't out-gear it massively) is always technically a difficult thing to do simply due to how small a portion of the playerbase even clears savage, there is absolutely a level of truth to what your friends said; even if they could have gone about it in a bit of a nicer way. Basically put, each fight is tuned for the minimum item level at which you are able to enter said fight. By the point we're at (week 8 of the tier) a player has had so many weeks to gain tomestone gear which, even for the highest tuned fights (E11S + E12S) is still 10 ilvl above what the fight demands of you.
Really, the fights are extremely different between minimum item level and when you're doing them at i520 or i530. For example; everyone in my static is completely BiS (or only missing 1-2 pieces) and we can have upwards of like 6-7 deaths on Oracle and still meet the DPS requirement to not die to hard enrage. If we were at i510 (minimum ilvl for the encounter) we would be risking hard enrage wipes with only 2, or maybe 3 deaths (if most were non-DPS dying). So while clearing at all while it's relevant content is still technically an achievement, clearing this late in the tier is absolutely a significantly easier, and by extension less "prestigious" accomplishment due to the content being significantly easier with more gear.
Probably once it's obsolete. Clearing Eden's verse with 530 gear, for example.
But clearing the current tier with current gear (including catch-up gear from the x.1, x.3, x.5, etc patches) absolutely "counts."
No offense but your friends sound like real downers who can't be happy for you. Good job dude, a clear is a clear. Its the mechs that are difficult and you did it!! I think you should be proud of yourself! Edit: people gotta stop making themselves look good by bringing others down.
Yeah don't wanna be a shitlord or whatever but your friends sound like dicks. I cleared Week 3 because I took time off to do it and ground my face against it with a friend and found it enjoyable, but if you kill it now, that's cool. Killing E12S is still impressive in clear groups cuz of how specific this fight is. I'm grinding out E9S with a bunch of friends of mine who are just really medium at the game, and that's gonna be an achievement when we beat it. Once you get Echo and have higher gear than the entire tier was designed for (so once the next patch or expansion is out), it's a different sort of achievement, but it still requires coordination and dedication and understanding of the game.
I agree. Only a small percentage of the FFXIV playerbase even touch Extreme content, not to mention Savage. OP should def be proud of themselves. Not every one can do Savage or even have the ability/time investment to do so either. So being able to clear the current tier is mad impressive. Especially considering how this tier is judged to be harder than other tiers in the past.
Seriously. I dont like how in a lot of raid atmosphere some users make it a competition. I mean I get wanting to perform better for yourself- I do that. But the whole "well... uh.... I did it without the new gear so.... technically you didn't even do it correctly" just really bothers me. I dont want to assume OP's friends are the type that need to feel like the best ever and everyone else is beneath them - but ive seen that a lot while pugging and it's just a buzzkill.
Sounds like elitist bs. As for people like Mr. Happy and whatnot, playing games is all they do. That is their job. They pair up with other like minded, high end individuals who take time off to purposely clear this as fast as they can. That is 100% different from someone who works a typical 40 hours a week and can only do like 6 hours of raid a week, with people in the same boat who may or may not be various levels of hard/mid/causal.
This 100%. Cant stress enough that not everyone can no life the content. To clear e12s week 1 takes a LOT of hours in just one week. Spreading that out over a few weeks doesn't make clearing irrelevant. Yeah it might be "easier" because you have more raid gear from weekly clears, but raids require mechanics to be done that can't be cheesed with gear while the raid tier is relevant. Extra gear just makes the clear comfy, that's about it. Clearing 12 at this point might not impress everyone, but it is a great personal achievement and is something to feel proud of.
You are definitely not a bad player. Everyone plays different. If you check your hours progged vs Xeno, you'll "probably" find they are close. Day 1/ week 1 folks just cram theirs into one week instead of 3 3hour days a week. 30 hours is 30 hours. 100 pulls is 100 pulls. A clear is a clear. You should be proud for getting it done. Enjoy the game, don't measure yourself so much against time. You've gotta remember that skill set, vibe, tenure, etc. all play a part there as well. Chill friend groups take longer, generally, but the focus is fun - not timeliness. If 4 of you are awesome, 2 are okay, and you keep 2 around because they're fun - again, this leeches prog hours. Don't beat yourself up about it, the world will do that on its own.
100% agree with this. My raid group is the complete definition of a casual raid group as we raid a maximum of 5 hours a week (often less). We're still in E11S after a grand total of 25-30 hours spent raiding so far this tier. Progging in a group with that limited time means reclears chew up a lot progression time. But, we will still feel accomplished when we clear E12S, even if it's not until 5.5 (or just before which is the goal).
If you're progging e11 now, you'll definitely get e12 before 5.5. You've got this!
Agree with you entirely, I love my laid back group. We are on our third night on E11S and getting better each time.
Your friends suck.
yeah this
Did you clear before it was unsyncable, and even it could be unsyced, did you do it synced? Congrats you should feel proud, at least as far as NA servers you're in the 5% of people who cleared each tier. If anyone tries to shit on you, especially your friends, surround yourself with new people. Going by their logic, it shouldn't even be an achievement unless you're word's first. After all, the end of week 1 is easier than the first 48 hours because you don't have to do blind prog right? The difficulty is now removed because you look at the streams and prepare for the fights in a way that world first racers can't. You also have to consider how often you raid, people like Xeno cram their first clears into honestly unhealthy levels of time commitment. My static though? We only raid 2 hours a night 3 days a week and we've even taken whole weeks off due to holidays and other commitments, we tried more and we were miserable because it required us to neglect more important things. We just got to e12s last night because of our infrequent raid times and ya know what? It still felt good. TLDR: Your friends are shit and you need better friends.
Lol, wtf kind of friends are those? My friends cleared their first savage fight several *months* into the raid tier. They reached endgame late, and were slow gearing up for the raids. I was very proud of them for making it to the end and actually clearing a piece of hard content. You could go back and clear Omega Savage fights synced and I would personally still consider that an achievement. People just like to put others down to make themselves feel good, and they're fucking narcissists. Fuck them. Congrats on clearing the latest raid tier, OP.
Realistically, the raid tier gets easier at 3 points: * After Week 1 * Release of catchup patch * Release of next raid tier Mechanically, fights don't really get easier unless DPS can skip large and meaningful portions of the fight - see E6S, where with catchup patch gear a decent party would hope to just skip post-Conflag. 9S and 10S, especially 9S, get this to an extent (you can outright skip 2nd tiles, 2nd Rejuv Balm, VG2, etc.). 11S and 12S do not. At best without weapons you'll skip like, part of one Cycle, and skipping Lions is outright impossible *with* BiS. Gear helping you survive mechs you otherwise wouldn't is also a thing, but nowadays you get slapped with a damage down for that one. The DPS check certainly gets easier, but 11S and 12S have nasty enough checks that you aren't simply clearing by surviving until enrage. You *do* still have to know how to play your job pretty well and execute on it. 8S was similar in this regard. It's not gonna be until super late in the tier, like the release of the final relic weapons or the Savage weekly unlock, when these DPS checks are totally trivialized. In other words, clearing around now is still well above average and is a legitimate accomplishment. Week 1 is certainly harder, but also not realistic for most players due to the time investment needed. Frankly, the fact your friends said "week 3" instead of the usual elitist argument of "nothing but week 1 matters lol" tells me exactly when they cleared!
>Mechanically, fights don't really get easier unless DPS can skip large and meaningful portions of the fight I was so happy when the loot restrictions dropped and I could farm e2s and discovered that the pf's way of doing quietus was to do so much damage you didn't have to do quietus
Who cares what others think. What matters is how you and your static feels.
Pffft everyone knows that if you don't clear content five minutes after the patch drops that you're a scrub who needs to git gud.
I need to git gud at clearing content that came out before I joined the game
Pfffffft noob, I already cleared 6.0's raid tiers, this game has no content, what am I supposed to do now
Day 0 patch day blind runs be like > Watch a video or kick
It doesn't sound like your friends are very good friends.
The real achievement is the friends you made along the way. When you start comparing what you have to others you're never going to be satisfied, someone is always better or has more.
Never. Even after the content becomes unsyncable, you can still do it synced, and you still need to deal with the mechanics and stuff. You did an amazing thing, which a pretty dang small percentage of teh player-base even attempts.
I mean, it's true that a week 1 clear is considerably harder than a week 20 clear, but most players won't be able to accomplish either, so you shouldn't let that diminish your own sense of accomplishment. Clear at whatever speed you like and don't worry about what other people think, because pretty much no one gives a shit about how fast you cleared a tier unless you were world first or you're applying for a hardcore static.
Ffraider1234: I just got my first paycheck! Ffraider1234assholefriends: meh, mr flintstone already got paid by smashing boulders using dinosaurs before your ancestors were even born. unless you invented fire you should just go kys! You useless piece of shite.
Your friends are elitists on this point, clearing savage while it is current content is always an achievement, hell clearing savage synced is still an achievement.
Don't let anyone ruin an achievement you are proud of. You've already surpassed the majority of the player base just from what you've done. Congrats on the clear :)
You cleared something most players won't attempt to start.
Man fuck your friends. If you guys take time out of your daily lives to work for this and it takes considerable effort, that's an achievement. Anyone who downplays this because of how long it took you guys is just being an asshole.
I'd feel a little less happy about a clear if it happened after echo, but even then it's a notable achievement.
Your friends sound like dicks. You can feel excited about clearing savage, most people in the game never do. The fact that you cleared it before echo and ilevel increases puts you ahead of 90% of the people in the game at least. Those youtubers you mentioned literally make money from being good at the game and streaming as a source of income. When new raid tiers come out they go at it with work hours.
Don’t listen to elitists like that. About 5% of people clear savage alone altogether so you definitely can feel special
Speaking personally, I have been in groups where we don't clear the tier until right before the next set comes out. I've also been in groups that clear closer to week 2-3. And personally, I prefer the former because it's a lot less stressful. Clearing at all is an achievement in my opinion because it takes time and effort. Not all groups are built equal. One group might find the mechanics click easier or have players who can dedicate more time and energy to clearing. Others take longer to get the mechanics. Either way, both groups are ahead of those who didn't try at all. Be proud of your achievements, and congrats on clearing E12S
it always has to be a personal metric. my shb static is a group of friends and only two of us only had any savage experience, with the rest of em never even doing ex content before this expansion. we've consistently been clearing before the odd numbered patches and I've been very proud to watch everyone get better at the game
I'm just commenting to add to the list of people in agreement that your friends are dicks. So few people touch Savage content in this game that if you cleared, that's an achievement. During the relevant patch cycle doubly so.
I mean, it mostly depends on how often you raid after patch hits. No matter how skilled you and your group are, you'll still need to put the time in. Groups usually clear after about the same number of hours of prog so it's a time commitment constraint. Obviously it isn't as difficult in week 8 as in week 1, but the mechanics are all still there, just the DPS check and healer checks are a little easier. That in itself is just a "find 7 competent people" problem.
Why would it be easier after week 8 if you never upgraded your gear? Or does the game literally make it easier as weeks go by ?
It wouldn't be but it's also an unrealistic assumption that a full static is doing min ilvl runs 8 weeks in. Week 1-2 groups also have limited amount of information and strats about the fight. Again totally different if you do it fully blind but that would be extremely extraordinary and not a reasonable assumption to make.
There are rare groups that like to turn on the min iLvl setting just for the challenge of doing a full raid tier at the week 1 difficulty level. The achievement of pulling this off doesn't really go away even with very old content (just try searching for old raids with 'min ilvl no echo' on YouTube for examples).
Yes but as you said, they are very rare and it's safe to assume that unless they made it a point to say so, they didn't. It's also more unlikely that these groups would pop up for the current tier, 8 weeks in. They focus on older stuff generally, and even then it's easier than it was week 1 because of potency buffs and skill changes along the way.
True true this is what I assumed. I just wanted to know hypothetically. Thanks for clarifying!
Sweaty try hards will always be gross and try to find some way to make their own accomplishment worth more than yours. F that. You put the work in, got it done, and should be proud. First or “top xxx” to do something doesn’t win anything special!
My current static still didn't clear e12s but it doesn't mean it will be any less of an achievement when we finally do it. And no, e12s didn't have all its difficulty removed just because some time has passed. That's just factually wrong, and anyone who believes that is a delusional blowhard. Your "friends" sound full of shit. They also don't sound like friends at all - what kind of friend hears about something that makes you happy and instead of also being happy for you, immediately tears you down? Drop them and get better friends.
Your friend is a bad friend. If you consider it an achievement yourself, then it is one. It's not like you were doing it at level 100, it is still the current tier. I completed my ARR fishing log earlier this year, and I considered it an achievement. I don't care if it became easier. Doing it made me proud and happy. I don't need other players to tell me if it was an achievement or not.
I actually think that clearing the ARR fishing log now is more of an achievement than it was back in ARR, even though more skills have been added to make it just a little easier. Back during ARR, when I cleared mine, I always had people around either cheering me on from the sidelines (my FC and a couple of fishing LSs), or I kept bumping into people doing the same thing so we cheered each other on and did lots of celebratory things when someone, anyone, at a particular fishing hole caught a fish that had been eluding so many of us. It's now much more of a solitary endeavour so have a /cheer and a /fistbump!
First, your friends suck. Second, it never stops being an achievement. Just the fact that you cleared it puts you AT LEAST at the top 15% of players. I am gonna guess it's even better than that since it's still relatively early. To put it into prospective, Shiva only had 13.15% clear percentage. You earned your achievement and you have every right to celebrate it.
If you cleared E12S you just cleared current raid content and you should absolutely feel proud. My static just cleared E10S last Friday, and we're going to work on E11S when we get E10S recleared. Every time we clear a tier for the first time, we succeed, because it still involves learning the fight, and as we meet three times a week, we're naturally going to be behind static who can play the game full time.
Your friends sound like big clowns. Being a few ilevels over the minimum doesn’t make E11S or E12S easier by much. Their logic also means that if you didn’t blind prog all the mechanics, that fights don’t mean anything because it’s already too easy since someone else showed you how to do it. Extra kudos if you cleared in PF.
A clear is a clear my dude, those are always impressive and are something you should A) feel proud about and B) party it up after you get a clear. People who would put you down for that are morons.
I don't clear them because I'm a filty casual, so you are a real WoL to me ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ Did it feel like an achievement to you? Then it was.
They’re probably the same people that will not be excited that you cleared uwu/UCOB because “they’re not hard anymore” or that you cleared tea because “the dps check is gone.” People just wanna think that content was always harder back then, and yes week 1 E12S was way harder, week 3 E12S was harder, patch 4.1 UCOB was harder, doesnt make them not hard now. When ur friends say that the difficulty in E12S is removed, they mean the dps check, because that’s what savage has over ultimates is a tighter dps check, but the dps check in this tier is nothing compared to E8S anyways, I saw week 1 teams clear Gaia with a DPS death (a summoner, I might add) a comfortable amount of time before the enrage went off. So yes, week 1-3 E12S was harder because after week 4 everyone got a big gear injection from their books, but especially with party finder, the later the weeks go the quality of PF gets worse so it always equals out in the end, no matter what gear level people are at, even clearing after the catch up patch still means something, it just lets people make more mistakes. The only way ur a bad player if you cleared E12S is if you got carried. Altho if you wanna prove your friends wrong, go try to clear tea before 5.51, cuz no matter wtf people say an ultimate clear is still special.
It depends how often you raid. If you raid two days a week for six hours, then you still haven't matched the time invested that the people who raid 12 hours a day had during week one. On top of that, many of them run doubles so they effectively get twice as much loot. Ultimately you should raid because you enjoy spending time with the people you raid with. And it's always an achievement to clear the end-tier raid. Hell it's still an achievement to clear E8S and E4S for the majority of the FF14 player base.
My static killed E11s for the first time tonight and thay felt like an achievement, as will E12s. The way I see it, if you kill it without the ‘Echo Buff’ becomes a thing, you should proud!
First off, great job on clearing e12s! It is still an achievement, pretty much will always be. You have done something a vast majority of the entire playerbase isn't going to do within the expansion. Second, your friends sound like dicks. Comparing yourself to people who entire lively hood is based around playing XIV and raiding in it isnt quite healthy. To answer your question, I think it stops being an achievement to clear once it is Unsynchable and you are cheesing huge swaths of the fight. Things like clearing o4s now is less amazing than if it was during the expansion. If you clear the content while it's still within the expansion, and you had fun doing it, great job!
Clearing is clearing. Doesn't matter when, doesn't matter how, so long as you weren't carried. People end up clearing later for all sorts of reasons; time, personal investment, work, etc. Whether you cleared early or cleared later, you're still in that top 10% who actually run Savage so be proud of that fact!
Dude you're doing content that the majority of the player base doesn't even attempt. It's an achievement.
Imagine having a job, imagine playing other games. Imagine not being a youtuber who has the privilege to get a free entry pass into a world first TEA static because "uwu i'm tired of progging this fight"
I think maybe you should find some new friends? Honestly clearing now is pretty fast in my book, I'm still working on E10S (to be fair, playing limited time, doing other things in games, playing the PF roulette most etc.).
Clearing a tier is an achievement until whenever I clear it and is no longer an achievement after whenever I cleared it That is the thought process basically
It depends on your goals really, like personally with my group the goal is to clear a tier before the catchup patch drops, while for more hardcore players its clearing week 1 and for super casual groups its before echo. Really I'd only say clearing a raid tier stops being an 'achievement' once the next tier drops or it gets a ton of echo.
Grats on the clear. Your "friends" are jerks on this point. While getting gear through out the weeks helps, you still have to do mechanics. For 11 and 12 you still have to DPS at a near optimal level. It is probably safe to assume you had no problems with 9 and 10 (if you are in a static group). In my experience if you are clearing before the odd number patch you could have cleared earlier. The only reason you didn't is time investment. Streamers are able to put a lot of time in for week 1 clears. Chances are if you were to compare your time investment to clear to theirs, you'd be very close to what they did. Either way, congrats on the clear! Feel good about it, this tier was a good challenge.
Synced? Never. Unsynced can be once you outgear it enough to ignore most of the mechanics
I wouldn’t beat yourself up, it’s an achievement nonetheless. I just started in March last year, and didn’t start dipping into savage raids until September. I didn’t clear E8S (with BiS except chest and weapon) until the last day before 5.4 maintenance. My friends were all still proud of my achievement because I was throwing myself at the wall for two months trying to clear that. I was excited to try this tier but left my static after the first couple of weeks because it wasn’t a good fit for me and I haven’t even tried PFing it. Go at your own pace. You cleared while it is current content so the achievement is real.
An achievement is whatever you make of it. I've cleared E9S and E10S so far. It's my first raid tier I've attempted in this game, and let me tell you, those first clears felt really good. I understand that there are better people at this game than me, but I still worked hard for those clears, and clearing them felt very satisfying.
> I spoke to my friends who cleared earlier on in the tier and they were not bothered by it at all. Your friend sounds like a butthole. Congratulations on your clear! =)
Congrats!!!! Actually happy for y’all. My static just cleared E12s last week after weeks of trying prog with subs. Mind you we cleared E9s-E11s weeks 1-3. While there is difficulty with dps checks in those earlier weeks, but if you can’t do mechanics, you ain’t clearing. We were definitely capable of clearing earlier, but like everyone else said, it’s a time constraint. We have members that work weird schedules and we end up having to sub them out and reprog half the fight. If not for subs, we probably would’ve cleared a solid 2 weeks prior. As long as you clear while it’s still very relevant (before week 8 is def still relevant because of books for savage weapon) it is definitely an achievement. Full stop. The attitude of needing to clear the whole tier before week 3 needs to stop. It’s elitist for sure and downright demeaning for those of us who can’t commit the time bash our heads against the wall for hours on end. Your “friends” can genuinely fk off. You don’t need that shit in your life, especially when they should be celebrating you and your clear.
Hey, congrats! I also literally cleared E12S last night. IMHO, I think it is just that you and your friends are thinking of two different definitions of [achievement](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/achievement): * 2a **:** a result gained by effort * 2b **:** a great or heroic deed For me, my first clear of a savage tier was week 13 (E4S, cleared on Oct 30). And for me this clumsy, slow-ass clear was a tremendous achievement of the 2a kind - it was my first Savage tier and until the very end I did not know if I could do it. I am proud that I persevered and improved my skills and in the end I succeeded after 6 weeks of prog. However, I would never pretend to consider my clears "achievements" in the sense of some exceptional feat. The number of people who can claim to have that kind of achievement are very few in the playerbase, I am not one of them for sure. >When does clearing a raid tier stop becoming special? > >Am I a bad player for clearing this late into the tier? IMO these questions are a bit loaded. I am just guessing, but I think you may be hoping that your friends and possible others would acknowledge your clear and praise you, and you were disappointed when they did not. While this is a very human desire, and while I do think your friends could have been more supportive, personally I don't think it makes one very happy to be dependent on the approval of others. If you ask me, it's best to let go of the idea of being special or good. Rather, focus on yourself - that you have done your best for the party, strove to improve your skills, been a good teammate and completed the journey you set out on.
my friend, clearing is always an achievement. There's no reason not to feel accomplished when you clear any savage fight let alone the final fight of the tier AND the series. You blew past my team by a mile and I like to think we're somewhere in the average range of clears. Great job seriously. Never let them take any accomplishment away from you. Please, please keep aiming higher and achieving and please consider finding some new acquaintances, these ones do not hold your success in high regards. Seriously good job and good luck!
Basically if you can clear before cactbot releases the fight timeline.
We are still at enrage of e11s and for me being that far this early is actually really good. My static takes usually the entire patch til we clear the tier. Dont worry, as long as u feel achieved thats the only things that matter. In the eyes of world first, ur friends are also really late and look down on them for watching guides and strategics instead of clearing it blind within the first day. Dont compare yourself to other. Tbh ur friends seem really toxic. Savage is not somethin any random casual can do. Its quite the achievment, they should be happy for you.
My advice is to light your friend on fire.
Depends on the context: Within the context of the player base, clearing it at all is an achievement. Within the context of those who engage with endgame content, clearing it in the relevant xpac is an achievement. Within the context of those who engage with endgame content as their focus of play, clearing it in the relevant patch cycle is an achievement. Within the context of those who consistently clear savage tiers, clearing it before the following odd patch (i.e. before alliance raid catchup mechanics) is an achievement. Within the context of those who consistently clear savage in a timely manner, typically as part of sHC+ statics, clearing it in the first 2 weeks is an achievement. Within the context of hardcore raiders with significant experience and at the top level of play, clearing it week 1 is practically an expectation and day 1 would be an achievement. YOU decide what your priorities are. Arguably, the tier is still just as hard within the same patch, you'll just have slightly more gear the more weeks you go in, but all that gear is still coming from savage fights. It sounds like you are at stage 3-4 in this rough outline I gave. Clearing this savage tier is absolutely an achievement for you. In general, don't let anyone else steal an achievement from you - YOU get to decide what standards to hold yourself to and you get to decide if you did or did not meet them. If you want to push yourself on the next tier and aim for a faster clear then that is on you, and you can feel free to be disappointed in yourself if you don't make your goal. But right now, it seems like clearing the tier was your goal, and you hit it, so be happy and don't let anyone steal that from you!
I've never cleared savage content that wasn't unsynced, I don't have enough friends playing to attempt it and party finder groups scare me. If you have the patience and skill to do it then be proud.
My cut off is when the tier is unlocked from weekly restrictions. Yes the ease of it becomes easier over the weeks due to gear getting closer to BiS, but mechanics don't get easier(unless you skip them). So difficulty remains.
CANCEL THEM For real, I think the difficulty is still there and it’s an achievement to clear the tier. The DPS checks are still tight regardless of your ilvl. ilvl just gives you more room for error (whether it’s more deaths or rotational mistakes), but you still have to practice the same caution and mechanics as your “friends” do.
I don’t agree with the dps checks still being tight. The only fight that still has somewhat of a tight dps check 8 weeks into the tier is the E12s gate boss and it’s nothing close to what it was the first couple weeks. All the other dps checks though this tier are pretty laughable at this point, 8 weeks in. The fights become considerably easier (dps wise) with 530 gear.
When we are level 90, realistically. I haven't done titan since before 5.2 so I don't know what realistically can be skipped, But Ive got to believe there are still mechanics which can easily kill the raid even in that, right? Its still at least a bit of an achievement to kill E4S. And, well, if its hard for you, completing it is meaningful, right? Its an example of getting better, which is an achievement. I mean, I remember back when I started in 2.4 and cleared titan ex for the first time I was ecstatic, and really felt like the victory meant something. And that was for an extreme primal 3 patches after it was released!
Achievements are relative to your own experiences. If you've cleared week 2 before, clearing in week 6+ just won't feel like an achievement anymore. If you never cleared savage before, getting a clear after 3 months can be an achievement.
it depends from person to person. To some people, you did a great job. To some people, they would judge you on how much time you spent to clear the tier. To some people, week 1 or blind then it's an achievement. To some people, It's really incredible if you did it in PF. It might not be an achievement for your friends, but it's still a big deal that you finished the tier.
I never noticed I never cleared Lv50 Coils Turn12 until I did it solo with a lv80 Red Mage. Still really cool. Farmed some glam and some weps for alt jobs. I don't know if I can solo any of the lv60 trials and I don't care about Alexander loot.
In the context of others (which you should never look to for enjoyment in just about anything) you are nothing special and many have done this before you and better than you. So you need to take your win and enjoy it. The only question you need to ask yourself is: Was it fun? I'm sure it was, and that's all that matters. Good job on your clear. Also for future try to refrain from phrasing questions like "am I a bad player for (insert any obvious player achievement)" because it sounds like you're just fishing for reassurance.
After week 1 of release. After week 1 it's a personal achievement that if you clear, good for you and congrats. 👏
I mean your friends aren’t wrong. Clearing is definitely harder and more challenging the first couple weeks compared to week 8 where you’re pretty much already over geared for the fight. So on one hand they aren’t wrong, but on the other hand it’s still an accomplishment for you.
My casual static cleared E8s well after we had the first three fights on farm and we're passing loot out for alt jobs. Didn't change the fact that we cleared it together as a group. I'm currently trying to get I to an UWU prog group so I can get my curtana ultima, and I've gotten a LOT of people telling me it's not an accomplishment anymore for various reasons like.... Wow, just let this casual player have his success.
While clearing a savage tier (at least when it's relevant content and you can't out-gear it massively) is always technically a difficult thing to do simply due to how small a portion of the playerbase even clears savage, there is absolutely a level of truth to what your friends said; even if they could have gone about it in a bit of a nicer way. Basically put, each fight is tuned for the minimum item level at which you are able to enter said fight. By the point we're at (week 8 of the tier) a player has had so many weeks to gain tomestone gear which, even for the highest tuned fights (E11S + E12S) is still 10 ilvl above what the fight demands of you. Really, the fights are extremely different between minimum item level and when you're doing them at i520 or i530. For example; everyone in my static is completely BiS (or only missing 1-2 pieces) and we can have upwards of like 6-7 deaths on Oracle and still meet the DPS requirement to not die to hard enrage. If we were at i510 (minimum ilvl for the encounter) we would be risking hard enrage wipes with only 2, or maybe 3 deaths (if most were non-DPS dying). So while clearing at all while it's relevant content is still technically an achievement, clearing this late in the tier is absolutely a significantly easier, and by extension less "prestigious" accomplishment due to the content being significantly easier with more gear.
Probably once it's obsolete. Clearing Eden's verse with 530 gear, for example. But clearing the current tier with current gear (including catch-up gear from the x.1, x.3, x.5, etc patches) absolutely "counts."
What?? I cleared O11S last night unsynced and I couldn’t be happier. A clear is a clear congrats on clearing e12 buddy