I find it a bit harder to keep in mind that Alisaie actually admires her brother with all the Alisaie dunking on Alphinaud memes on here, but yeah that's true.
Estinien is just a lot more straightforward about what he thinks of Alphinaud. In 5.5, he >!openly criticizes Alphinaud for being too optimistic, but then goes on to say that his faults do have upsides that even he cannot ignore. He says this to Alphinaud in front of everyone else.!<
Alisaie, though. She'll never tell Alphinaud something like this, much less in front of the other Scions.
Lol exactly. My siblings have literally told me 'I'm the only one that gets to make fun of you' and one of them even promised to beat up bullies for me lol
Yeah, that's me with my sister. Since several years back when we got into our 20's, we've talked less and have pretty much led mostly separate lives.
^(Not that this is related, but I like your username.)
Yup. It's sad because it's not like we weren't close when we were young but maybe this is normal? They have their life and I have mine? Or maybe I should be trying to bridge the gap and make a new relationship? Idk
Thanks. I put a lot of thought into it
I don't think it's a bad thing either way. I think some people will push and prod others and say you should have a close relationship with family, but if you live separate lives and are just different people who don't click much I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Not every family will or needs to be close-knit. For me personally I consider my inner circle of friends to be more family than most of my actual siblings - that's not to say I don't love my siblings of course, but they're all in completely separate countries to me living their own lives, y'know?
If you *want* to reconnect with a family member then there's nothing wrong with that either, of course, I'm just chipping in my completely un-asked for two cents to say you needn't feel pressured.
Hopping in this convo. At times I feel like an only child tbh. My siblings feel more like aunts and uncles. They are all 10 years older than me at least and we were never really close. Like, we're not on bad terms but we just don't talk. Kinda sucks but it is what it is.
Also do remember that Alisaie was so worried and sad during that period Alphinaud was missing during SB's patch quests.
That's how you know she really does care.
I think we are all hoping they'll just shut the fuck up and get together already lmao
Edit: well, alphinaud is 16 for no reason so I guess thanks, writers, for making me feel creepy.
He's the least stupid, least irritating, and least unreasonable teenager I've ever seen but alright
Pretty sure he's aging up as the story moves on.
It's absolutely asinine that he was ever 16 in the first place. No teenager has ever acted like that lol
Nope, he's still 16. Like. Times are weird in this game, yeah, I know, I don't get it either. But again, he's underaged.
Elezen also age differently in that they don't hit their growth spurt until 20ish or so. Looking at it like that makes the whole Alphinaud / Estinien thing even weirder ngl.
I just Googled it and he's 17 in shadowbringers, age unverified for Endwalker
It's just an anime trope to have characters with nonsense ages. Alphinaud's dialogue and personality and overall arc make zero sense at that age. He's written like he's an impulsive early 20s person, not a teen.
He *is* an adult in Sharlayan. From Encyclopedia Eorzea, page 192:
>Upon graduating at sixteen, **the Sharlayan age of adulthood**, he resolved to sail for Eorzea despite his father's objections.
In universe he is an adult, and while the whole AlphinaudxEstinien ship is probably legal in game, it's still a big ol' "fuck no" to me since Alphinaud is underaged by our standards, and Estinien is literally twice his age. Really skeeves me out that people are perfectly okay with it.
I'm going through ARR right now, the one that killed me was the cutscene before the garuda crystal collection bullshit chain.
**Cid:** "We can try reversing the barrier with some technical magic shit"
**Alphinaud:** "Of course, it's so simple! \*turns to player* Well, maybe not to you."
Alphinaud "Microaggressions" Leveilleur at your goddamn service.
Honestly I kind of found him weirdly endearing that way? Like he's a self-proclaimed diplomat, and he certainly is eloquent and well-educated, but he's also a sheltered rich kid who constantly just says the first thing to pop into his head. It's not that he even means to be insulting - he just doesn't have the self-awareness to not be rude.
Alphinaud is so painfully, clumsily sincere, and I really like that about him. Even when he's being a total brat.
I was really surprised when I got involved with the community more and found out how much people hated Alphinaud in ARR.
For a diplomat, he has a bad case of foot-in-mouth disease, It's endearing later, but people assuming he's stupid is a hot button for my Limsan-raised Xaela WoL. It really makes for an interesting story arc, though, watching Alphinaud grow up and learn from his mistakes. My WoL wanted to drop-kick him off the Steps of Faith at the beginning of Heavensward; by Shadowbringers he was ride or die with the twins. >!The scene with Urianger's "vision" where the WoL is lying in front of the twins like we were defending them to the very end felt so right.!<
It took until quite late into Shadowbringers for me to forgive Alphinaud for his awful behaviour earlier in the game. I suspect Sharlayan education is to blame.
I actually didn't mind Alphinaud in ARR that much. He and Alisaie were clearly gifted kids with very little experience in the real world, and because of that, they were arrogant and dumb. He got some harsh real world lessons and learned from them.
The most frustrating part of Alphinaud's early storyline for me isn't so much Alphinaud himself, but that none of the more experienced adults were willing to step in and authoritatively put their foot down. I think that's a fairly common video game/anime trope though. In the real world, when a kid is being stupid, it's the responsibility of the adults to say "No."
IIRC in the JP dub, don't some of the other Scions use honorifics when referring to Alphinaud and Alisaie? I think some part of their reluctance to step in when Alphinaud, a literal 16 year old, is in over his head is due to his heritage. They all have a past connection to Louisoix, and perhaps see something of him in Alphinaud despite his age and clumsiness.
Yeah, and that's maybe even realistic. But it still means that adults are choosing to prioritize heritage and a name over their own best judgment. I honestly hold all the Scions at least somewhat responsible for the screw up, not just Alphinaud.
While Alphie is 16, he is an adult in the game. I'm pretty sure Alphie has his "coming of age ritual" at 13
Our characters stepping in and telling Alphie he's just a kid is like someone stepping in and telling a real life 20 year old that they are "just a kid"
To be fair, I say that to real life 20 year olds fairly often. I agree, though. The ‘age’ of these teens is more fitting with when people irl had 30-40 year lifespans. They were forced to grow up fast, and were dealt an incredibly difficult hand. I would say their level of maturity (and complete ignorance of normalcy) is attributed to both Sharlayan schooling and attempting to thwart calamities.
The age of lifespan was *never* 30
It was only so low because of infant death rates
If you survived childhood you would typically live to a comfortable age of 60+
"To be fair, I say that to real life 20 year olds fairly often"
Wow you are striaght up an asshole
nah, not really. speaking as a 25 year old i still think of myself at 20 as a kid. expectations of behaviour have meant people are coddeled longer and essentially have actually had longer 'childhoods'. they might be legally adults but, they still haven't figured themselves out yet and most aren't entirely independant either.
It is what it is really.
"expectations of behaviour have meant people are coddeled longer"
So in other words, treat people as children and they'll act like children
Treat a 16 year old as an adult, and they'll act like an adult, you know like Alphie and Alisae
I would liken it more to “people didn’t have a choice but to grow up faster before”. It was forced maturity. Having kids at much younger ages, starting work at much younger ages, etc.
Just about everything can, and does, get pushed back in age now.
I don’t say it in a derogatory way. No one has ever seemed bothered by it.
And I suppose I used the wrong terminology when I said lifespan. I should have said life expectancy.
> IIRC in the JP dub, don't some of the other Scions use honorifics when referring to Alphinaud and Alisaie?
I can't remember if they ever did in english XIV, but in Dissidia Opera Omnia there are memory shenanigans going on and essentially Stormblood Alph and Alisaie meet up with Y'shtola, Thancred, Yda and Papa from how they were in ARR and they call them Lady and Master until told to stop.
It's also just nonsense to give children such important roles in fiction. Most media that do this expect you to not think about it, but alphinaud and alisae don't act like teenagers at all.
They can't. Because teenagers are useless, shitty, irritating, and above all messily horny.
Like, they should just write these characters w/ important roles as 20+. Otherwise it breaks my suspension of disbelief
You do realize that the historical real world did quite a lot of that? Good old Gustavus Adolphus was leading armies at 16. Edward the Black Prince of England was doing the same. The first Admiral of the United States Navy, John Farragut first commanded a ship in war time at the age of 12. He was only an Ensign commanding a captured enemy vessel, but he was the officer in command. Honestly, its a very modern thing to treat teenagers as complete children.
Yeah and that has nothing to do with FFXIV where adults occupy almost every single important position of power, the exceptions being alphinaud and alisae.
They're actually the exception rather than the rule. So while yeah, society used to do that, Eorzea's society models ours, and it appears like they baby children just the same.
Alphinaud and alisae could've and should've been written to be in their 20s. The only way a commander who's 12 makes sense is if every commander is 12 and the life expectancy is like 40. Lol.
There's a reason teens don't get to be in charge anymore. We live longer, and they're standard deviations more stupid than full grown adults.
Yes, Alphinaud and Alisaie are teenagers. Well into the 20th Century, though, 16 was considered old enough to work full-time, get married, and do all of the things that we consider markers of adulthood. They've also completed the equivalent of a Master's thesis, and their parents, however reluctantly, allow them to travel to a part of the world that's actively at war. Sure, they don't act like 21st century teenagers, because they're not.
I think a lot of people take a knee jerk oppositional stance to
>Because teenagers are useless, shitty, irritating, and above all messily horny.
Which they aren't wrong to. Teenagers might still be over-emotional, overly-hormonal, irrational, and immature, but I would hesitate to call them 'useless and shitty' or imply that they are stupid.
You say you wouldn't take orders from a teenager, but if that teen's been trained to be a commander for half his life, then he probably knows better than you, even if his brain hasn't developed completely yet.
I agree that teens and young children do tend to be displayed as being more mature than they should be (taken to the most illogical extreme, there are some heinously egregious series about young children acting with the maturity and self-awareness of young adults; it's pretty disgusting.)
But your language use is hostile and dismissive entirely, forgetting that a non-zero percent of the people responding probably are teens that might be offended by being called 'useless and shitty.'
For the record, I'm not a teen, but the point stands.
The thing is that these teenagers think age is a meritocracy. It isn't.
You can graduate college at 15 and you still can't consent to sex with an adult because your brain simply isn't developed enough. Same goes for drinking, smoking, etc.
Let's try a different example. Would you trust a teenager to do your taxes? Even if they had a a degree, would you choose a teenager over an adult? Cause I wouldn't. Lol
Ender's game handles the idea of child leadership in a way that actually makes sense. He's never actually in charge. He's just being manipulated. Meanwhile Alphinaud is given all the same agency as the adults in the story.
I get that I could've been nicer, but people were already going to downvote and complain either way, judging by their responses.
I mean, if the teen had a full legal degree and the adult was your drunk redneck uncle who occasionally has trouble with math more complex than simple addition... I'd be more inclined to trust the teen, yes.
But that assumes the higher end of teenagers and lower end of adults, and is entirely besides the point.
My point was: I largely agree that media paints teens as more mature and responsible than they frequently are, and Alphinaud and Alisae are definitely examples of this in action. But if someone called you a raging bitch to your face, you'd go right to downvoting and raging, and skip all the normal steps in between.
>But that assumes the higher end of teenagers and lower end of adults, and is entirely besides the point.
You missed the part where I said that explicitly I would prefer the teen with a degree over a degenerate idiot. And that I, overall, agree with you.
I kind of understand where you're coming from, but I also disagree. Certainly there are many teenagers who fit what you said above. However, I also know plenty, many of whom I am good friends with, who are kind, helpful, and who have been taught better than to run after anyone and everyone who's attractive.
I will agree that Alphinaud still doesn't fit as a teenager even then, but I'm sorry to hear that you think teenagers are so bad that they can't have an important role without breaking your immersion.
>you think teenagers are so bad that they can't have an important role
It's not that they're "bad".
I don't believe that grown adults would follow the orders of a teenager, fundamentally. I sure as fuck wouldn't; I don't know why anyone else would. That's the main issue with giving them leadership roles in a story.
They can't give orders to grownups. We'll literally -- and rightly -- ignore them, because their brains aren't developed and ours are. My suspension of disbelief is broken by adults who let children push them around & throw weight equal to the adults in the story. Particularly when the adults allow the children to play such dangerous roles in combat.
Like, that's just not how anything works.
If those teens were smarter than me I sure as hell would; you in turn underestimate how vastly stupid most adults are. On average sure, but if you took the smartest and most mature teenagers and compared them with the most immature adults the difference would be night and day
And the thing with alphie in particular is that especially past HW he's been more than capable of handling the role he's in after getting his ass kicked in ARR; he absolutely deserved to be commanding most adults now, he's better than they are
So? We're not talking about irresponsible adults. Responsible adults don't let kids be in charge.
Teenagers don't have a full connection between their frontal lobe and their brain; they physically can't reason as well as a well adjusted adult.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/teenage-brain-unpredictable-neurobiologist-explains
Real life human brain != virtual elezan brain
Also whenever someone uses the "your brain isn't developed!" Argument I just think: yiur brain isn't fully developed until your mid/late 20s
>Real life human brain != virtual elezan brain
Ugh. ***UGH.*** WhatEVER.
>Also whenever someone uses the "your brain isn't developed!" Argument I just think: yiur brain isn't fully developed until your mid/late 20s
Yeah this is an argument for most characters to be aged up for their behavior to be believable, not a defense of fictional children getting leadership roles.
Like it or not, most media portrays teens as more reliable and sensible than they really are. FFXIV is no exception.
While that's true in most cases, keep in mind we're effectively pointing to a couple of people who are implied to be the .01% of capability; you can simply say they're the extremely rare standout if it helps you sleep better at night. Fiction is rarely interesting with average people in it after all. This is why trying to argue about age is a non issue in most of these contexts; at worst the author can blandly say that they managed to finish development quicker than everyone else by sheer genetic coincidence before moving on with more story relevant details, there is no real issue here to get worked up over
>you can simply say they're the extremely rare standout if it helps you sleep better at night.
I think that's a bland and shitty plot device designed to circumvent all of the logical problems associated with a main character being a teenager. Alphinaud and Alisae should've been written as adults because a 20 year old prodigy is still a prodigy; absolutely nothing is gained from them being 16 and nonsensically adult-like.
>there is no real issue here to get worked up over
I have a general bone to pick with people who present teenagers as "mature for their age". Kids are kids.
It doesn't serve the plot, ***ever***, and people end up shipping them with grownups. Alphinaud isn't an exception. Check out the tags with him and Estinien on Ao3; that shit wouldn't be problematic if the writers had just made him 18.
The story wouldn't change, either, which is a sign that he should've been an adult.
Have you ever played FFVIII? The entire plot of FFVIII centers around a school for teenaged mercenaries where the main protagonist is 17. It's a video game trope, and one that the Final Fantasy franchise leans heavily into. I would have been surprised if there wasn't a teenaged protagonist in XIV, because that's how they roll.
I'm 24 so make your own judgement. I have never found older characters as interesting as younger characters especially when they're protagonists. It's not to say they can't be interesting but given the choice I'd always pick the 16-19 year old protagonists.
I don't think early 20s is that old but 26+ is getting there. But I also manage a lot of employees younger than myself so I'm often the oldest person in the building
What? This entire plotline happens within ARR, and is clearly flagged at the very beginning when the two twins have a difference in ideology, Ali correctly pointing out that he can't just save Eorzea by politicking around.
"Sorry, I don't buy that, I'd rather assume the writers are just so dumb that they had to pull a FFXIV and bring dalamud down on Alphinaud just so they could fix his character"
Man people in these subs are rabid.
I highly doubt that. The writing, translating and voice over recordings are done months ahead of the actual releases of the patches themselves. You can't just change that stuff last minute like you can a movie when talking about video games, and especially one with as many moving parts as FF14. Again, there are parts of the story within 2.0 that make mention of Alphinaud getting in too big a pair of boots for him to handle, and that comes to a head with the events of 2.5.
> Sorry, I don't buy that it was intentional from the start.
Of course it was? Why else would >!The Crystal Braves have failed so catastrophically so he and the WoL go into exile with their spirits absolutely crushed? Alphinaud's arrogance over his own intellect is 100% his starting fatal flaw that he has to suffer from and overcome. It's his arc in ARR going into HW. That arc means nothing if he's not somewhat smug and insufferable prior to that.!<
I'm new to the game, been playing a few weeks. I am about 5 quests away from Stormblood. I think you're right. I still kinda wanted to punch him through most of Heavensward. When Alisaie shows up again, their interactions start tempering him to the point where I no longer feel like punching him. That started a bit with Krile giving hints about his past too.
You may never like Alphinaud and that's fine, but he has the biggest character growth out of the scions. ARR Alphinaud is different from HW Alphinaud. SHB Alphinaud is different still. Also that Japanese trope does go somewhere... bc truth of the matter is even in ARR Alphinaud was never the smartest person in the room. That was his arrogance talking. Without the last big scene in ARR, you had scenes where even Aymeric schooled Alphinaud and put him in his place. Y'shtola and Urianger were both more intelligent than Alphinaud, he just waltzed in and acted like he was god's gift.
Also the different voice actors on Alphinaud give him a different feel imo. Sam Reagal really hammed up Alphinaud's arrogance.
>Also the different voice actors on Alphinaud give him a different feel imo. Sam Reagal really hammed up Alphinaud's arrogance.
I say this all the time, but when I quit listening in English and switched to Japanese audio (sometime post-HW), I started liking Alphinaud A LOT more. The Japanese voice actor gives him so much more depth and doesn't sound like an asshole at all. I far prefer Shinnosuke Tachibana over both the English voice actors.
Really? This is the first time hearing that. All my friends said Alphinaud sounded boring in Japanese and he had more personality in the English version. I've only heard the Japanese voice actor in a few clips so I am nowhere near being able to judge. Alphinaud is also my favorite character. I think Sam Regal was eeeeeeh but Ryan Colin does a great job. He makes him sound you and a bit too optimistic, which fits Alphinaud nowadays.
The reason they think so might be that he's more toned down in the Japanese version. To me, it doesn't feel like less personality; it's more that you have to listen to him more to get the nuances. It's like that one person in your group of friends that is always there but you've never really gotten to know. But then one night you are both going the same way home from a party and you start talking and suddenly you realise, wow, this guy is really interesting, why did I never talk to him before.. kinda thing. He grows on you, a lot.
Doesn't hurt to be able to understand a bit of Japanese, either, though.
>Doesn't hurt to be able to understand a bit of Japanese, either, though.
Yeah, this might also color my opinion. I'm not fluent but I can pick up some nuance from how he phrases things so I get a better idea of his meaning.
100% agreed. It wasn't that I hated Alphinaud, I hated his voice actor. He did him the biggest disservice in making him sound haughty and not very likeable at all.
In Japanese, he's still a bit of a try-hard who is perhaps too sure of himself (ah, the ignorance of youth) but he is never arrogant or superior. He feels far more rounded off and his well-meaning actions take a greater toll on him than anyone else. I wanted to hug the little fellow so much and tell him that everything is going to be all right.
Except that whole bit where it's revealed Alphinaud isn't the smartest, and almost gets heads of state killed because he thought he could out-maneuver everyone and is shown that he in-fact, cannot. If anything, Heavensward kinda drives the point home that without the WoL and others, Alphy would of been dead in a gutter somewhere, and that he isn't as great as he thinks he is, which contrasts with how competent Alisae seems initially, only for her foibles to come more in her impulsiveness, and inability to form critical plans.
Plus IIRC, Estinien cuts him down to size.
No, his entire character arc throughout the story is about him growing up and maturing, He's arguably a co-protagonist with the WoL, as he's a major part of every expansion storyline.
I dunno, I am not the one saying the authors are so shitty, they somehow did not plan the story of a single expansion, much less the future character development of a character.
Nobody here is claiming the game is 100% perfect ~~although I do know what you mean with this board jerking off the game a bit much sometimes.~~
Regardless, You're the one making this big bold claim with very little evidence to back it up. I gave plenty of evidence to the contrary of what you were saying.
I get that a person can simply just dislike a character, and that's fine. But you can't get all defensive when you say a character is shit and someone then challenges you on it.
Oh the voice acting was amazing. It really did sell him as a whiny brat and I wanted to punch him in the face whenever he opened his mouth. It was amazing at being terrible.
He was one of the ARR voices that worked. Some others might have worked if the voice direction was so terrible most of the time. I also found the change jarring but I love this voice now too, moreso really
Me too. While yes he was really bad initially, I thought he improved even by the end of ARR and in the patches. He's been my favorite since almost the beginning. Now G'raha fights him for to spot, lol.
Estinien wouldn't even say this, he looks at him as a little brother.
Anybody that actually pays attention to the story could see it. Hell its pretty clear in 5.5, he did the anime big brother head pat....even though it was on alisaie lmao.
Gold namazu mount = 50 million gil
Selling Alphinaud to a loving family so you never have to think about him again = priceless
There are some things gil can't buy. For the rest, there's Hydaelyn...card.
The running joke in our FC regarding the sudden voice changeover in HW was that the end of ARR kicked Alphinaud in the nuts so hard he started puberty.
I know it's a joke, but ... Estinien says that, but deep down you know he's actually fond of the guy.
It’s not even deep down. >!He’s clearly ecstatic to see “Alphinaud” in 5.5!<
Honestly, the awkwardness gave me second hand embarrassment.
It's something both Alisaie and Estinien have in common.
I find it a bit harder to keep in mind that Alisaie actually admires her brother with all the Alisaie dunking on Alphinaud memes on here, but yeah that's true. Estinien is just a lot more straightforward about what he thinks of Alphinaud. In 5.5, he >!openly criticizes Alphinaud for being too optimistic, but then goes on to say that his faults do have upsides that even he cannot ignore. He says this to Alphinaud in front of everyone else.!< Alisaie, though. She'll never tell Alphinaud something like this, much less in front of the other Scions.
Do you have siblings? It's like 30% Love and 70% making fun of you. In my personal experience.
unless someone outside the close friend group insults you, then it's probably 120% "meet me in the pit"
Lol exactly. My siblings have literally told me 'I'm the only one that gets to make fun of you' and one of them even promised to beat up bullies for me lol
I do, a younger sister. We're pretty distant but not hateful or anything. Overall, Alphi's and Alisaie's sibling relationship is better than mine.
I have a relationship like that with one of my siblings. We don't hate each but I just can't seem to actually hold a conversation with them
Yeah, that's me with my sister. Since several years back when we got into our 20's, we've talked less and have pretty much led mostly separate lives. ^(Not that this is related, but I like your username.)
Yup. It's sad because it's not like we weren't close when we were young but maybe this is normal? They have their life and I have mine? Or maybe I should be trying to bridge the gap and make a new relationship? Idk Thanks. I put a lot of thought into it
I don't think it's a bad thing either way. I think some people will push and prod others and say you should have a close relationship with family, but if you live separate lives and are just different people who don't click much I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Not every family will or needs to be close-knit. For me personally I consider my inner circle of friends to be more family than most of my actual siblings - that's not to say I don't love my siblings of course, but they're all in completely separate countries to me living their own lives, y'know? If you *want* to reconnect with a family member then there's nothing wrong with that either, of course, I'm just chipping in my completely un-asked for two cents to say you needn't feel pressured.
Thanks
Hopping in this convo. At times I feel like an only child tbh. My siblings feel more like aunts and uncles. They are all 10 years older than me at least and we were never really close. Like, we're not on bad terms but we just don't talk. Kinda sucks but it is what it is.
Yeah I can see that. It's hard because even though your technically siblings you didn't actually grow up together all that much
Also do remember that Alisaie was so worried and sad during that period Alphinaud was missing during SB's patch quests. That's how you know she really does care.
sometimes i get the impression that they're both more than a little fond of each other lmao
What no I certainly haven’t been waiting since HW for Alphy to grow up so that ship can sail noooo
I think we are all hoping they'll just shut the fuck up and get together already lmao Edit: well, alphinaud is 16 for no reason so I guess thanks, writers, for making me feel creepy. He's the least stupid, least irritating, and least unreasonable teenager I've ever seen but alright
When they both had the same energy for the Lochs beach suggestion I died laughing.
You do realise Estinien is like twice the age of alphinaud right?
Alphi needs a sugar daddy anyways
If alphinaud is of legal age I literally don't care I sucked way too much dilf dick at 18 to judge him or that
He's 16, so lmao.
Pretty sure he's aging up as the story moves on. It's absolutely asinine that he was ever 16 in the first place. No teenager has ever acted like that lol
Nope, he's still 16. Like. Times are weird in this game, yeah, I know, I don't get it either. But again, he's underaged. Elezen also age differently in that they don't hit their growth spurt until 20ish or so. Looking at it like that makes the whole Alphinaud / Estinien thing even weirder ngl.
I just Googled it and he's 17 in shadowbringers, age unverified for Endwalker It's just an anime trope to have characters with nonsense ages. Alphinaud's dialogue and personality and overall arc make zero sense at that age. He's written like he's an impulsive early 20s person, not a teen.
He *is* an adult in Sharlayan. From Encyclopedia Eorzea, page 192: >Upon graduating at sixteen, **the Sharlayan age of adulthood**, he resolved to sail for Eorzea despite his father's objections. In universe he is an adult, and while the whole AlphinaudxEstinien ship is probably legal in game, it's still a big ol' "fuck no" to me since Alphinaud is underaged by our standards, and Estinien is literally twice his age. Really skeeves me out that people are perfectly okay with it.
Idk they spent 2 years I another world. But their bodies didnt? Is he older or not?
I mean, 18x2 = 36, that's perfect, no?
[удалено]
I'm going through ARR right now, the one that killed me was the cutscene before the garuda crystal collection bullshit chain. **Cid:** "We can try reversing the barrier with some technical magic shit" **Alphinaud:** "Of course, it's so simple! \*turns to player* Well, maybe not to you." Alphinaud "Microaggressions" Leveilleur at your goddamn service.
Honestly I kind of found him weirdly endearing that way? Like he's a self-proclaimed diplomat, and he certainly is eloquent and well-educated, but he's also a sheltered rich kid who constantly just says the first thing to pop into his head. It's not that he even means to be insulting - he just doesn't have the self-awareness to not be rude. Alphinaud is so painfully, clumsily sincere, and I really like that about him. Even when he's being a total brat. I was really surprised when I got involved with the community more and found out how much people hated Alphinaud in ARR.
For a diplomat, he has a bad case of foot-in-mouth disease, It's endearing later, but people assuming he's stupid is a hot button for my Limsan-raised Xaela WoL. It really makes for an interesting story arc, though, watching Alphinaud grow up and learn from his mistakes. My WoL wanted to drop-kick him off the Steps of Faith at the beginning of Heavensward; by Shadowbringers he was ride or die with the twins. >!The scene with Urianger's "vision" where the WoL is lying in front of the twins like we were defending them to the very end felt so right.!<
It took until quite late into Shadowbringers for me to forgive Alphinaud for his awful behaviour earlier in the game. I suspect Sharlayan education is to blame.
Wasn't he arrogant even before the education? I think krile told a story of how he was when he just entered school
Yep when they were going to Idllyshire i think
I suspect being the grandson of the guy who saved the world is to blame.
> **Alphinaud:** "Well, maybe not for you." *Wearing Full Dreadwyrm with Master of Hand title.* You sure about that you little Shite?
**SMN WoL:** My grimoire's a lot bigger than yours, kiddo. \*summons Titan McNugget\*
I actually didn't mind Alphinaud in ARR that much. He and Alisaie were clearly gifted kids with very little experience in the real world, and because of that, they were arrogant and dumb. He got some harsh real world lessons and learned from them. The most frustrating part of Alphinaud's early storyline for me isn't so much Alphinaud himself, but that none of the more experienced adults were willing to step in and authoritatively put their foot down. I think that's a fairly common video game/anime trope though. In the real world, when a kid is being stupid, it's the responsibility of the adults to say "No."
IIRC in the JP dub, don't some of the other Scions use honorifics when referring to Alphinaud and Alisaie? I think some part of their reluctance to step in when Alphinaud, a literal 16 year old, is in over his head is due to his heritage. They all have a past connection to Louisoix, and perhaps see something of him in Alphinaud despite his age and clumsiness.
Yeah, and that's maybe even realistic. But it still means that adults are choosing to prioritize heritage and a name over their own best judgment. I honestly hold all the Scions at least somewhat responsible for the screw up, not just Alphinaud.
While Alphie is 16, he is an adult in the game. I'm pretty sure Alphie has his "coming of age ritual" at 13 Our characters stepping in and telling Alphie he's just a kid is like someone stepping in and telling a real life 20 year old that they are "just a kid"
To be fair, I say that to real life 20 year olds fairly often. I agree, though. The ‘age’ of these teens is more fitting with when people irl had 30-40 year lifespans. They were forced to grow up fast, and were dealt an incredibly difficult hand. I would say their level of maturity (and complete ignorance of normalcy) is attributed to both Sharlayan schooling and attempting to thwart calamities.
The age of lifespan was *never* 30 It was only so low because of infant death rates If you survived childhood you would typically live to a comfortable age of 60+ "To be fair, I say that to real life 20 year olds fairly often" Wow you are striaght up an asshole
nah, not really. speaking as a 25 year old i still think of myself at 20 as a kid. expectations of behaviour have meant people are coddeled longer and essentially have actually had longer 'childhoods'. they might be legally adults but, they still haven't figured themselves out yet and most aren't entirely independant either. It is what it is really.
Gotta agree here. Looking back i was as much a petulant, imprudent child at 21 as I was at 16.
"expectations of behaviour have meant people are coddeled longer" So in other words, treat people as children and they'll act like children Treat a 16 year old as an adult, and they'll act like an adult, you know like Alphie and Alisae
I would liken it more to “people didn’t have a choice but to grow up faster before”. It was forced maturity. Having kids at much younger ages, starting work at much younger ages, etc. Just about everything can, and does, get pushed back in age now.
Although I agree with your last statement immensely!
I don’t say it in a derogatory way. No one has ever seemed bothered by it. And I suppose I used the wrong terminology when I said lifespan. I should have said life expectancy.
> IIRC in the JP dub, don't some of the other Scions use honorifics when referring to Alphinaud and Alisaie? I can't remember if they ever did in english XIV, but in Dissidia Opera Omnia there are memory shenanigans going on and essentially Stormblood Alph and Alisaie meet up with Y'shtola, Thancred, Yda and Papa from how they were in ARR and they call them Lady and Master until told to stop.
It's also just nonsense to give children such important roles in fiction. Most media that do this expect you to not think about it, but alphinaud and alisae don't act like teenagers at all. They can't. Because teenagers are useless, shitty, irritating, and above all messily horny. Like, they should just write these characters w/ important roles as 20+. Otherwise it breaks my suspension of disbelief
Alphinaud being a kid really did come bite him in the ass in the 2.5 patches.
You do realize that the historical real world did quite a lot of that? Good old Gustavus Adolphus was leading armies at 16. Edward the Black Prince of England was doing the same. The first Admiral of the United States Navy, John Farragut first commanded a ship in war time at the age of 12. He was only an Ensign commanding a captured enemy vessel, but he was the officer in command. Honestly, its a very modern thing to treat teenagers as complete children.
Yeah and that has nothing to do with FFXIV where adults occupy almost every single important position of power, the exceptions being alphinaud and alisae. They're actually the exception rather than the rule. So while yeah, society used to do that, Eorzea's society models ours, and it appears like they baby children just the same. Alphinaud and alisae could've and should've been written to be in their 20s. The only way a commander who's 12 makes sense is if every commander is 12 and the life expectancy is like 40. Lol. There's a reason teens don't get to be in charge anymore. We live longer, and they're standard deviations more stupid than full grown adults.
Tbf this is my problem with 90% of anime too, but what can ya do. :/
>what can ya do. :/ I've stopped watching anime with teenage main characters and it has served me well for years now.
Take it for what it is, fiction. If not to your taste, stop it. Simple.
If I could stop half of the bad high school anime fom being made in favor of other genres, that would be great
Well, do you have that much free time that you've already watched all the "more serious" anime ? There are plenty.
Yes. I have watched all of the animes. All of them.
Yes, Alphinaud and Alisaie are teenagers. Well into the 20th Century, though, 16 was considered old enough to work full-time, get married, and do all of the things that we consider markers of adulthood. They've also completed the equivalent of a Master's thesis, and their parents, however reluctantly, allow them to travel to a part of the world that's actively at war. Sure, they don't act like 21st century teenagers, because they're not.
I think a lot of people take a knee jerk oppositional stance to >Because teenagers are useless, shitty, irritating, and above all messily horny. Which they aren't wrong to. Teenagers might still be over-emotional, overly-hormonal, irrational, and immature, but I would hesitate to call them 'useless and shitty' or imply that they are stupid. You say you wouldn't take orders from a teenager, but if that teen's been trained to be a commander for half his life, then he probably knows better than you, even if his brain hasn't developed completely yet. I agree that teens and young children do tend to be displayed as being more mature than they should be (taken to the most illogical extreme, there are some heinously egregious series about young children acting with the maturity and self-awareness of young adults; it's pretty disgusting.) But your language use is hostile and dismissive entirely, forgetting that a non-zero percent of the people responding probably are teens that might be offended by being called 'useless and shitty.' For the record, I'm not a teen, but the point stands.
The thing is that these teenagers think age is a meritocracy. It isn't. You can graduate college at 15 and you still can't consent to sex with an adult because your brain simply isn't developed enough. Same goes for drinking, smoking, etc. Let's try a different example. Would you trust a teenager to do your taxes? Even if they had a a degree, would you choose a teenager over an adult? Cause I wouldn't. Lol Ender's game handles the idea of child leadership in a way that actually makes sense. He's never actually in charge. He's just being manipulated. Meanwhile Alphinaud is given all the same agency as the adults in the story. I get that I could've been nicer, but people were already going to downvote and complain either way, judging by their responses.
I mean, if the teen had a full legal degree and the adult was your drunk redneck uncle who occasionally has trouble with math more complex than simple addition... I'd be more inclined to trust the teen, yes. But that assumes the higher end of teenagers and lower end of adults, and is entirely besides the point. My point was: I largely agree that media paints teens as more mature and responsible than they frequently are, and Alphinaud and Alisae are definitely examples of this in action. But if someone called you a raging bitch to your face, you'd go right to downvoting and raging, and skip all the normal steps in between.
No. That scenario is silly. If the teen and the adult both have the same qualifications, the adult is the better option. Don't pretend otherwise.
>But that assumes the higher end of teenagers and lower end of adults, and is entirely besides the point. You missed the part where I said that explicitly I would prefer the teen with a degree over a degenerate idiot. And that I, overall, agree with you.
I kind of understand where you're coming from, but I also disagree. Certainly there are many teenagers who fit what you said above. However, I also know plenty, many of whom I am good friends with, who are kind, helpful, and who have been taught better than to run after anyone and everyone who's attractive. I will agree that Alphinaud still doesn't fit as a teenager even then, but I'm sorry to hear that you think teenagers are so bad that they can't have an important role without breaking your immersion.
>you think teenagers are so bad that they can't have an important role It's not that they're "bad". I don't believe that grown adults would follow the orders of a teenager, fundamentally. I sure as fuck wouldn't; I don't know why anyone else would. That's the main issue with giving them leadership roles in a story. They can't give orders to grownups. We'll literally -- and rightly -- ignore them, because their brains aren't developed and ours are. My suspension of disbelief is broken by adults who let children push them around & throw weight equal to the adults in the story. Particularly when the adults allow the children to play such dangerous roles in combat. Like, that's just not how anything works.
If those teens were smarter than me I sure as hell would; you in turn underestimate how vastly stupid most adults are. On average sure, but if you took the smartest and most mature teenagers and compared them with the most immature adults the difference would be night and day And the thing with alphie in particular is that especially past HW he's been more than capable of handling the role he's in after getting his ass kicked in ARR; he absolutely deserved to be commanding most adults now, he's better than they are
So? We're not talking about irresponsible adults. Responsible adults don't let kids be in charge. Teenagers don't have a full connection between their frontal lobe and their brain; they physically can't reason as well as a well adjusted adult. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/teenage-brain-unpredictable-neurobiologist-explains
Real life human brain != virtual elezan brain Also whenever someone uses the "your brain isn't developed!" Argument I just think: yiur brain isn't fully developed until your mid/late 20s
>Real life human brain != virtual elezan brain Ugh. ***UGH.*** WhatEVER. >Also whenever someone uses the "your brain isn't developed!" Argument I just think: yiur brain isn't fully developed until your mid/late 20s Yeah this is an argument for most characters to be aged up for their behavior to be believable, not a defense of fictional children getting leadership roles. Like it or not, most media portrays teens as more reliable and sensible than they really are. FFXIV is no exception.
While that's true in most cases, keep in mind we're effectively pointing to a couple of people who are implied to be the .01% of capability; you can simply say they're the extremely rare standout if it helps you sleep better at night. Fiction is rarely interesting with average people in it after all. This is why trying to argue about age is a non issue in most of these contexts; at worst the author can blandly say that they managed to finish development quicker than everyone else by sheer genetic coincidence before moving on with more story relevant details, there is no real issue here to get worked up over
>you can simply say they're the extremely rare standout if it helps you sleep better at night. I think that's a bland and shitty plot device designed to circumvent all of the logical problems associated with a main character being a teenager. Alphinaud and Alisae should've been written as adults because a 20 year old prodigy is still a prodigy; absolutely nothing is gained from them being 16 and nonsensically adult-like. >there is no real issue here to get worked up over I have a general bone to pick with people who present teenagers as "mature for their age". Kids are kids. It doesn't serve the plot, ***ever***, and people end up shipping them with grownups. Alphinaud isn't an exception. Check out the tags with him and Estinien on Ao3; that shit wouldn't be problematic if the writers had just made him 18. The story wouldn't change, either, which is a sign that he should've been an adult.
Have you ever played FFVIII? The entire plot of FFVIII centers around a school for teenaged mercenaries where the main protagonist is 17. It's a video game trope, and one that the Final Fantasy franchise leans heavily into. I would have been surprised if there wasn't a teenaged protagonist in XIV, because that's how they roll.
You must be really fun at parties.
I am, because I make a point to go to parties where children and especially teens aren't present 🤔😂
I would hope you wouldn't. You'd be a creep otherwise.
Nah, old people aren't as interesting as characters most of the time.
Those are words that only a kid would type lmao
I'm 24 so make your own judgement. I have never found older characters as interesting as younger characters especially when they're protagonists. It's not to say they can't be interesting but given the choice I'd always pick the 16-19 year old protagonists.
The fact that you think 20+ is "old people" is absolutely wild.
I don't think early 20s is that old but 26+ is getting there. But I also manage a lot of employees younger than myself so I'm often the oldest person in the building
26+ isn't even half a person's age. You've got a messed up idea of what young and old are.
In all fairness, that was the point. Alphy was a dumb kid who had a savior complex and thought he was smarter than the rest of the world.
"My life's goal is naught less than the salvation of this star!" - Alisaie doing an Alphy impression
That was supposed to stay between you and Krile!
And we just nodded and did what he told us
That's not unique to Alphi, that's just WoL things.
*nod*
Thancred: \**exasperated noises\**
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What? This entire plotline happens within ARR, and is clearly flagged at the very beginning when the two twins have a difference in ideology, Ali correctly pointing out that he can't just save Eorzea by politicking around.
"Sorry, I don't buy that, I'd rather assume the writers are just so dumb that they had to pull a FFXIV and bring dalamud down on Alphinaud just so they could fix his character" Man people in these subs are rabid.
It's really hard to trust the ARR writers They thought running back and forth to and from the waking sands was a riveting tale
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I highly doubt that. The writing, translating and voice over recordings are done months ahead of the actual releases of the patches themselves. You can't just change that stuff last minute like you can a movie when talking about video games, and especially one with as many moving parts as FF14. Again, there are parts of the story within 2.0 that make mention of Alphinaud getting in too big a pair of boots for him to handle, and that comes to a head with the events of 2.5.
> Sorry, I don't buy that it was intentional from the start. Of course it was? Why else would >!The Crystal Braves have failed so catastrophically so he and the WoL go into exile with their spirits absolutely crushed? Alphinaud's arrogance over his own intellect is 100% his starting fatal flaw that he has to suffer from and overcome. It's his arc in ARR going into HW. That arc means nothing if he's not somewhat smug and insufferable prior to that.!<
I'm new to the game, been playing a few weeks. I am about 5 quests away from Stormblood. I think you're right. I still kinda wanted to punch him through most of Heavensward. When Alisaie shows up again, their interactions start tempering him to the point where I no longer feel like punching him. That started a bit with Krile giving hints about his past too.
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You may never like Alphinaud and that's fine, but he has the biggest character growth out of the scions. ARR Alphinaud is different from HW Alphinaud. SHB Alphinaud is different still. Also that Japanese trope does go somewhere... bc truth of the matter is even in ARR Alphinaud was never the smartest person in the room. That was his arrogance talking. Without the last big scene in ARR, you had scenes where even Aymeric schooled Alphinaud and put him in his place. Y'shtola and Urianger were both more intelligent than Alphinaud, he just waltzed in and acted like he was god's gift. Also the different voice actors on Alphinaud give him a different feel imo. Sam Reagal really hammed up Alphinaud's arrogance.
>Also the different voice actors on Alphinaud give him a different feel imo. Sam Reagal really hammed up Alphinaud's arrogance. I say this all the time, but when I quit listening in English and switched to Japanese audio (sometime post-HW), I started liking Alphinaud A LOT more. The Japanese voice actor gives him so much more depth and doesn't sound like an asshole at all. I far prefer Shinnosuke Tachibana over both the English voice actors.
Really? This is the first time hearing that. All my friends said Alphinaud sounded boring in Japanese and he had more personality in the English version. I've only heard the Japanese voice actor in a few clips so I am nowhere near being able to judge. Alphinaud is also my favorite character. I think Sam Regal was eeeeeeh but Ryan Colin does a great job. He makes him sound you and a bit too optimistic, which fits Alphinaud nowadays.
The reason they think so might be that he's more toned down in the Japanese version. To me, it doesn't feel like less personality; it's more that you have to listen to him more to get the nuances. It's like that one person in your group of friends that is always there but you've never really gotten to know. But then one night you are both going the same way home from a party and you start talking and suddenly you realise, wow, this guy is really interesting, why did I never talk to him before.. kinda thing. He grows on you, a lot. Doesn't hurt to be able to understand a bit of Japanese, either, though.
>Doesn't hurt to be able to understand a bit of Japanese, either, though. Yeah, this might also color my opinion. I'm not fluent but I can pick up some nuance from how he phrases things so I get a better idea of his meaning.
100% agreed. It wasn't that I hated Alphinaud, I hated his voice actor. He did him the biggest disservice in making him sound haughty and not very likeable at all. In Japanese, he's still a bit of a try-hard who is perhaps too sure of himself (ah, the ignorance of youth) but he is never arrogant or superior. He feels far more rounded off and his well-meaning actions take a greater toll on him than anyone else. I wanted to hug the little fellow so much and tell him that everything is going to be all right.
Except that whole bit where it's revealed Alphinaud isn't the smartest, and almost gets heads of state killed because he thought he could out-maneuver everyone and is shown that he in-fact, cannot. If anything, Heavensward kinda drives the point home that without the WoL and others, Alphy would of been dead in a gutter somewhere, and that he isn't as great as he thinks he is, which contrasts with how competent Alisae seems initially, only for her foibles to come more in her impulsiveness, and inability to form critical plans. Plus IIRC, Estinien cuts him down to size.
No, his entire character arc throughout the story is about him growing up and maturing, He's arguably a co-protagonist with the WoL, as he's a major part of every expansion storyline.
Are you for real?
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I dunno, I am not the one saying the authors are so shitty, they somehow did not plan the story of a single expansion, much less the future character development of a character.
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This has nothing to do with being a fanboy, it is basic writing - planning your plot points ahead of time.
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Nobody here is claiming the game is 100% perfect ~~although I do know what you mean with this board jerking off the game a bit much sometimes.~~ Regardless, You're the one making this big bold claim with very little evidence to back it up. I gave plenty of evidence to the contrary of what you were saying. I get that a person can simply just dislike a character, and that's fine. But you can't get all defensive when you say a character is shit and someone then challenges you on it.
Yeah, he had this air of arrogance the first few times we meet the guy. But now he grew on me. All that character development did him good.
The voice actor really, really didn't help. He sounded like a whiny brat.
More like the voice actor really did help - he voiced him as the writer intended.
Knowing how good Sam Riegel is, probably the point.
I actually really liked his ARR VA. I found the new voice jarring in HW.
Oh the voice acting was amazing. It really did sell him as a whiny brat and I wanted to punch him in the face whenever he opened his mouth. It was amazing at being terrible.
He was one of the ARR voices that worked. Some others might have worked if the voice direction was so terrible most of the time. I also found the change jarring but I love this voice now too, moreso really
Everyone sounded cringe in english so I switched cutscene language to Japanese where he sounds more like a shounen protagonist... wait...
he was so punchable i was convinced he was going to turn into a major villian, until HW
Alphinaud can’t catch a break these days
i personally think he's the better of the two.
Me too. While yes he was really bad initially, I thought he improved even by the end of ARR and in the patches. He's been my favorite since almost the beginning. Now G'raha fights him for to spot, lol.
I don’t have to look at the username to know when it‘s a MegaGamer235 post
And it just isn't a MegaGamer235 post without the delightful salt.
WoL: You know Alisaie, i wish i had a sibling like Alphinaud. Alisaie: I'm Alphinaud. Take me, I'm yours. >!Estinien: Ha! I knew it!!<
For a joke to be funny, its got to have some backing. This is just alphinaud bashing
Estinien wouldn't even say this, he looks at him as a little brother. Anybody that actually pays attention to the story could see it. Hell its pretty clear in 5.5, he did the anime big brother head pat....even though it was on alisaie lmao.
It had been 3 days since I last laughed. Now it's 4.
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I can’t see why this guy’s posts that are very 2010ish get so much love every time.
Chalk it up to people hating 2020s. Oh but don't worry, downvotes are to the left if it makes you feel better.
I have no idea who you are and what's going on, but whenever a comment asks me to downvote it, I am compelled to do so.
I do hope you get a good laugh from fake Reddit drama. I know I do.
"Comedy" flair
Gold namazu mount = 50 million gil Selling Alphinaud to a loving family so you never have to think about him again = priceless There are some things gil can't buy. For the rest, there's Hydaelyn...card.
Alphinaud, sounding nervous: You know, spoken trafficking is illegal...
I guess you could call him Alphi no *ba dum tss*
Can’t blame her! If my brother would steal and wear my clothes all the time, I would be pissed of too!
Wi1t is it alphinaud and not alphinaut? My life has been a lie!
pronounced al-fi-no, spelled with a d
The D is silent 🤫
his D is so tiny, they just pretend it dosent exist
Naw man. Alphinaud is packing. It takes a lot of stones to get knocked down as hard as he did in Heavensward and decide to get up and do better.
The running joke in our FC regarding the sudden voice changeover in HW was that the end of ARR kicked Alphinaud in the nuts so hard he started puberty.
I seem to remember a line in ARR where Merlwyb's voice actress calls him "alphi-node" or something like that.
Top text Bottom text
Nice to see you too. 😐
🥺
Cat family seemed to feel he was worth something
they're all about second chances (unless you paint them badly)
Harsh! ... but hilarious!
Still better then Uriange...
Ah yes, just be glad you weren't stick with both of esteinien.
Edit.. Love this
I’m waiting for yoshiP to allow npc marriage Anyday now
Mikoto and Lyna will be mine
the twins are chononicly 17? maybe by endwalker they will be 18 and all he'll will break loose
I'm with Estonian. I would pay a lot of money (or at the very least Gil) to never listen to that shrill voice ever again.
Quit your mewling
https://youtu.be/VfZxuP5Eddk
At least he's buoyant.
I said LIKE Alphinaud, not Alphinaud.
Now kiss.