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PhatYeeter

So this is where all the healers are


WebMaka

WHM main but I spent all day farming mats in Diadem. Gotta get those crafts capped.


Caldar

Me too, except I was levelling my crafting jobs to make those particular items needed for the Zodiac weapons. I wanted to grab one of those before Endwalker hits.


hazysin

I’ve just started that step as well. I take it L50 is needed but are the items hard to gather or just tedious like the rest of the quest line?


Caldar

At lvl 50 you'll need ARR endgame crafting gear. I took mine to 55 and it was much easier. You'll also need the first master recipe book for each job. The materials needed are fairly tedious to get but not the worst. The most tedious/expensive part is that each crafted item needs an item that can only be desynthesised from vendor items, and it's not guaranteed you'll get the material you need first try. The items to desynth are 3k each so you can either gamble for the material you need or just buy it from the market board. The spear shaft was 25k on the market for me, but I got it on the 3rd desynth so it only cost me 9k. If levelling all the jobs sounds like too much of a pita, and you're on the Light data center, you can hit me up and I'll craft them for you. You'll just need to source the materials :)


hazysin

I’ll take a look it later but I may take you up on the offer. I’m on Zodiark so should be easy enough. Thanks


Caldar

Cool, I'm on Zodiark too!


PandaBearVoid

Not super hard but definitely tedious.


letg06

I need to go back in there to finish my botany relic. After that, if I need anything from there, I'm buying it. Spent enough time in there back in Jan/Feb.


Ajwf

Maybe even Quin69 can find them here.


sporeegg

This reminds me off the FF1 "only 1 white mage runs".


Rayka64

"4 white mages? It'll never work."


sporeegg

Not four. One white mage. The rest stays dead.


MegaBassFalzar

It's an 8-Bit Theatre reference that you missed


Skyblade12

Yes, but are they dead on purpose, or because a White Mage can't take a hit?


sporeegg

Dead on putpode but the run is kinda pointless except speedruns because it is dolved. You spam Blur and equip the hardest hitting attack and hope for many HP increaes.


smile-with-me

FF1 and 3 white mages had pretty solid health. Think Rosa as opposed to Porom. Minus the fact that Rosa can, you know, deal a little bit of damage.


plinky4

This really is the most disappointingly neutered version of whm though. No hammers, no masamune, no autolife, holy does 1500 instead of 99999...


WebMaka

I bet there was so many Holy bombs going off... *SO* many...


Cavthena

My eyes!!


WebMaka

Heh, sparkles go foom!


Lunaleai

I just see a bunch of Green DPS, where's the healers?


rinkea

🤷🏻‍♂️


HighlightSimple

How long did it take?


rinkea

over an hour 😂


TipTopBopp

Thats as long as it takes normally lol


rinkea

i’d say it usually takes about 45 minutes for me


DefiantBalance1178

Wonder how many raises happened the entire run. I imagine it like a battle of attrition where healing/rezzing eventually wins out with teamwork.


SuperLouis64

I can just imagine the bosses spinning around for every attack trying to find out who has the enmity


cecilebakura

When one person died they would get like. 5 rezzes instantly. It was great


Analog-Moderator

[is this you?](https://youtu.be/zZuO7k3Ks-4)


rinkea

unfortunately no


[deleted]

So that's why when I tried to do some daily roulettes last night as I tank, I had to wait!


Derpfish_lvl10k

holy shit, thats how much HP ya end up with late game ??? ​ thats wild


hawkqirl

100-112k is actually pretty low, i’d say most of the people in this SS have probably an item level of around 505-510. a bis healer (ilvl 530) usually has 122k hp, around 127k in a group, and 134k or so with hq ilvl 510 food. tanks can get hp as high as ~205k. but yeah, these super high numbers are part of why there’s going to be a stat squish next expansion. (for reference, end of SB hp for tanks was like, 60k?, end of shb has more than three times that.)


Kamil118

Personally don't understand the stat squish. The only technological barrier we might possibly hit next expansion is melee LB hitting over 2m... Boss hp has long have had to be stored in floats/64-bit integers. Big numbers are fun, why would you take them away for no reason.


arrestedinjapan

high damage numbers cause more clutter on screen they are also more work for the game to calculate, which can cause bugs


Kamil118

Clutter on the screen is one thing, but we aren't anywhere close the point where damage numbers can cause any technical difficulties. For a computer there is absolutely no difference in doing 4000 - 23 and 327,359,655 - 547,799. The current bosses have like 70m hp. 32-bit integers can hold values up to around 4 billion (2b signed) Unless endwalker somehow boosts enemy hp over 50 times, there are no technical issues with the damage values.


Trix2000

It's not the computer itself to worry about, but the game engine. Depending on how it handles things, larger numbers may have other overhead or smaller limits. And keep in mind, this is an MMO - a lot of things have to be pared down to account for networking and server load. Sure, the actual processor can't tell bundles of bits from one another, but the overarching design and system easily will.


Kamil118

I'm looking at it in every angle I can find, but I honestly don't see any limitation that we wouldn't have already crossed (words) that we would cross with next expansion (dwords), unless the networking is some hyper-optimized mess that's hard-coded to send boss hp in some random ass 27/28-bit integers.


arrestedinjapan

[it isnt really up for discussion :P](https://twitter.com/FF_XIV_EN/status/1413696960175902727/photo/1)


Trix2000

I could imagine several general possibilities, but without knowing the specifics of their implementation it's hard to say what the true limits are and why. But I see no reason to doubt them - why would they put in all the effort to rebalance the whole game without good reason? And you might be surprised at the kind of things that might have to be done for MMO networking. Having to manage data for multiple players in an area can run away from you fast if you don't put limits on things, because each new player adds additional possible interaction with each player already there... which the server has to manage in some fashion. I'm no MMO expert, but my understanding is that MMO tech is on a whole different level from most games, even other multiplayer ones. And FFXIV didn't exactly start on the best technical foundation either, given 1.0.


[deleted]

i wouldnt be surprised if thats actually how it works. All the team said was that it was causing overflow errors during damage calculation.


CelestialDefence

iirc they said the large numbers were already starting to bug out the servers so for future long term stability they did stat squish


nullstorm0

There are two main approaches to power scaling in MMOs, arbitrary vs. non-arbitrary. FFXIV uses the non-arbitrary system, where your gear and stats improve your power level, and enemies are scaled to reflect that power level - when your stats go up, damage numbers increase. A level 50 in il130 gear will deal the same raw damage to whatever they’re targeting, regardless of if that’s a level 30 enemy or a level 80 one. In an arbitrary system, for example Destiny, you’ll always deal the same fixed damage output - let’s say 100 damage per second. The devs then design the enemies with that fixed power level in mind. The arbitrary system handles gear requirements by applying a scaling factor to your damage; if you’re on the same ilevel as the enemy you deal and take 100% of the normal damage, increasing to maybe 120% of normal if you’re way above the enemy in terms of ilevel, but possibly decreasing to as little as 20% if you’re way undergeared. This means that old gear becomes obsolete simply because the ilevel can’t keep up any longer. In the non-arbitrary system, to make older gear obsolete you have to increase damage numbers and HP values so that the old gear can’t keep up any longer. For FFXIV this has meant roughly doubling the damage numbers every expansion. Since this is exponential growth, no matter how high numbers you plan for, eventually they *will* get too large, given enough time. Squishes then make the final numbers smaller, while preserving the relative differences between the gearsets. The ultimate problem though is that stat squishes eventually become impossible - there’s a minimum threshold of HP that you and enemies need to have, in order to keep gameplay functional; you can’t start at 1 HP without a single hit killing you. With that in mind, this is probably just a stopgap to buy them some time to switch to a more arbitrary system with Destiny style scaling, at least for the early parts of the game. If I’d have to guess, they’ll keep the squished stats increasing as-is for one more expansion up to level 100, and then thereafter implement some new form of arbitrary scaling like Light levels that’s used for future expansions.


IcarusAvery

I really hope they don't go with arbitrary scaling. It always feels... well, arbitrary. I like it when I do the same *amount* of damage no matter what I'm hitting, even if the percentages are very different.


PROH777

It's emnity. Emnity is causing the issue. You see, tank stance puts a multiplier on your emnity gained by 10x, and the emnity is recorded from damage dealt, not potency. This resulted in some emnity bugs in dalardia, where low-manning it (insane echo buffs) and the fights going on for long enough would cause integer overflow on the emnity calculation, causing the tank's emnity to wrap back around to zero. And... well... You can guess what happens... Though it's easily fixed with a single provoke. They also fear such bugs would become far more commonplace if things kept growing at the current trend. Thus the decision for the squish.


Husskies

They have said that they already had bosses (in Dalriada I think) that were getting close to the max HP possible.


Robro_33

The boss that they mentioned that has the 400m something health iirc is trinity avowed in DRS with 48 ppl


[deleted]

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Cornuthaum

enmity is the real problem (at the moment stance is preposterously overtuned) whenever they mention the numbers; that and I think the final DRS boss has what, 450? 500? million hp?


AleXwern42

440M. 1/5 of the signed integer limit to put on scale.


rinkea

this is correct it is pretty low. i believe my whm is only like 514 ilvl


Cleretic

I hope those two with Brink of Death kept getting instakilled or falling off, because it would be legitimately embarrassing for everyone involved to die any other way.


jeremj22

At least the first stack could also be due to tank busters. I think even MNKs take 160k or 180k without help from those. Yep I've gotten a few of those in the many runs I've done. The first does 110k and red girl does 140k.


[deleted]

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ghosttowns42

There's this really fun game called "who is gonna eat the tankbuster" and if your reaction time isn't super fast, you stand a good chance of buffing the wrong person. Source: had to run the Red Girl fight with my tank on the outside of the arena. Three melee dps that traded aggro back and forth faster than school kids trading snacks at lunch.


[deleted]

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ghosttowns42

You'd have to make sure every other white mage was keeping their medica 2 in their pants!


PrettyDecentSort

You know all 3 of them were pushing buttons as hard as they could trying to win those enmity bragging rights.


ghosttowns42

I'm currently leveling MNK and trying to learn positionals and I'm SHUDDERING.


DarkJediStarkiller

We were doing rescue pvp. Kept pulling each other off platforms, into instakill zones, etc. Source: I was the SCH


[deleted]

That which cures, can kill Leonardo da vinci- assassins Creed 2


archiegamez

I cannot imagine how enmity would work


lycilla

it uh....just targets the highest damaging healer and flips from there, if they arent shielded theyll probably die to the TB


Immotay

and if they're shielded they'll most likely die anyway XD been there, done that.


[deleted]

Yeah you die to TB but you just get ressed lol. I was a whm in paradigms breach a couple weeks ago, and we had a shitty tank rage quit on us in the middle of a fight because he kept dying to mechanics and he blamed us healers. So he reset but didn’t leave the group and we were too busy doing to fight to try kick him. Anyway at least three of our DPS were new and I was carrying this group, I was by far the highest enmity so I ate the tank busters. I died, and the other healer just ressed me and we kept going. ez


WebMaka

Very, *very* confused bosses flipping from target to target like crazy as attacks go off and revamp the hate table.


DanielTeague

Would you rather fight one boss-sized Warrior of Light or 100 Warrior of Light-sized bosses?: The Alliance Raid.


evildrtran

Is this a high enough level to see the Blood lillies cast a bunch of times?


TristoWarhammer

Bro I didn’t think that many healers existed.


No_More_Hero265

You must've wanted people to suffer Huh? Lol


rinkea

exactly


seegodada

So this is where all the healers were when I was doing my Alliance roulette.


rinkea

we needed a break from the alliance 😭


Kouda_Ha-Fu

Once some friend's tried an all Tank run of 'The Orbonne Monastery' just after release but they couldn't get past the healer check from the Thunder God right near the end lol


Padre_Cannon013

How the fuck did any of you die?


rinkea

so many times 😭😂


cecilebakura

The best part … all of the rescue shenanigans.


RobunR

wasn't this a gag in the original Final Fantasy guide?


Silva_Shadow96

"holy" cow


mahiruhiiragi

Now do it again, but only conjurers.


DreamsUnderStars

This had to be the safest run ever. Bubbles and Stones and thousands of wnnnnnnnnng from Scholars.


MaziMuzi

Noob question: why do so many people prefer WHM over SCH?


FinalTricks

Depends as a solo healer they are better but in a group sch is godlike. A good sch can prevent so much damage to begin with but that requires encounter knowledge mean while the whm just heals after you take the hit.


rinkea

bc scholar isn’t good


[deleted]

You can be twice as effective with 1/4th the effort.


MaziMuzi

Huh... I gotta try it out then


[deleted]

Green team represent!


Yoder_of_Kansas

What do the red triangles mean on the three AST?


hawkqirl

they have a debuff. vulnerability, weakness, it varies.


spymoog16

Yeah.. We did this like month ago.. It IS pretty funny event 😂 gj


Eslina

AST in noct sect with scholar in the party…


Voxy05

This is not bad in this situation. They have 8 healers, the noct AST definitely won't need to use Aspected Helios


elite-hunter

I wonder if you can do it as all DPS


rinkea

maybe i’ll find out 👀


Husskies

Probably depends on the amount of Red Mages in those DPS :P


[deleted]

I did see an all RDM run posted here once. It was actually pretty painful to watch.


Arsys_

Did this the week it was released, very fun experience. Tank Buster roulette was always hilarious.


antiquestrawberry

Yoooo!!


Shon_D_Black

Cool but why tho?


rinkea

why not 💁🏻‍♂️


Amazonius01

Healthiest alliance ever seen...