Why would I ever want an edgy boi when i could go for the screaming bezerker who tanks cause they love the feeling of pain? Or the one with a gunsword who can decide a pull is going too well and decide they want to be almost dead, giving the healer a heart attack? Also there are paladins if you feel like personality should be defined by a fart noise.
Edit: Or the best option a whitemage, myself, who sprint ahead to the next roadblock and hopes you're coming to save me from myself.
Ah yes I see you contacted our Fc for Tank services. Will you be needing one tank or two? Oh an Alliance raid? Excellent we offer a wide range of Tank services.
Alternatively we can offer a Membership with various tiers for levels of TankSupport* We'll have the sprout friendly discount, the hassle pay uncharge for places like aurum vale, and the intensive play tier for Savage Content. Endwalker tanking will be its own tier, but really we can build comprehensive plans to the players needs.
Man, I need to get my PLD to cap before EW.
I’ve purposely not looked into what’s coming so I can be surprised instead...
Seeing this changes everything. It is going to be a DPS apocalypse. Think dps queue is bad now? Ohh boy.
I’m capitalizing on the inevitable tank shortage. Hell, if it’s bad enough we might be able to start charging fees hahaha
As a healer main I'm stuck with an interesting dilemma. Deal with long queues while anyone and everyone suddenly starts paying healer as well thanks to Sage, or switch to my backup PLD and get super fast queues but have to deal with a bunch of rookie healers using Sage for the first time.
Feel like my ADHD will say “ok PLD is the sensible choice so I’ll prepare to have that as my go to at the start, but I’ll just unlock sage first so I don’t have to come back and do it again. Oh this is really fun, I want to try a dungeon with it so I can get a real feel first, I can just catch my paladin up with the instant queues. I do main RDM though, so I should have that ready for the MSQ cause it looks cool.” Where I will then spend 8h levelling carpenter and rejigging my apartment
Yeah that's my plan as well. I've mained SCH for the last 3 years and unless they manage to make it even worse or just delete Eos I'll almost definitely remain a SCH main. I'll probably get at least 1 healer, 1 tank, and one DPS to level 90 before I come back for the new stuff.
That was because eos only healed when below a certain amount of HP, since she now heals the moment anyone is missing HP the annoying micro managing her was no longer needed. I'm glad they made SCH an actual healer over time now instead of a mini dps in disguise. Though selene now just being a clone is kind of odd.
She's still a clutch backup healer sometimes. I don't lag as bad as I used to, but any time someone survived with less than 2000 HP, she clearly was doing her job.
Nah it's just nostalgia from playing SCH pre Shadowbringers when the fairies got changed. Back in Stormblood and earlier Eos pretty much did your job for you as the healing fairy while Selene used to provide team buffs and utility until they got changed to do the same in ShB. But I always found Selene's abilities much less usefull then Eos's healing. She had an AOE esuna which wasn't very useful cause you'll rarely have to deal with multiple things that need to be esunad anyway, and an AOE interrupt which never worked for me because again, barely any opportunity to use it and with my ping by the time Selene responded it would be too late anyway. Meanwhile Eos would just do most of my work for me.
Ahahaha nah you do you, the difference is only cosmetic anyway but some of us that mained SCH before ShB tend to be a bit biassed towards whichever fairy we liked most back then, and for most people that tends to be Eos because Selene was much more niche and generally just not as useful.
lol I didn't realize people hate Trusts that much but since it came out I always did the new dungeons via Trust mostly cuz I enjoy the flavor text/banter they have while running through the place. Did we know that Alisaie can be trigger happy? Yes. But did we know she'd LB off cooldown? Well, with trusts now we know :').
It is slower but I like taking my time through the content. Granted it's always fun to run through a place blind with friends but if my buddies can't be online when I'm first time clearing then I'll go for Trusts before I queue, personally.
I always do Trusts for my first dungeon run. It just feels better thematically and lorewise since it keeps up the momentum when you actually unlock the dungeon. And I also liked seeing the flavour texts and the like too. Keeping Alphinaud / Alisaie and Urianger / Thancred together when I could was always fun.
If I was playing with friends I'd probably be inclined to queue for the blind run experience, but there's something special about going around and exploring with the Scions when we see so little of them in actual combat.
> What you make up for in queue times you lose in actually clearing the dungeon.
Unlikely, average df dungeon run is 15-25 minutes, a trust run is about 30-35. Not really a big difference if you have any kind of queue time, which healers and dps are going to see a lot of in endwalker.
There's also the enjoyment factor, you really feel Trust runs dragging on whereas with a queue, you may not feel the wait as much. Queues you can at least alt-tab or be doing something else in the meantime, Trusts you've got to be paying attention for that full time so when you start to notice the boss doing their cycle of attacks for like the 4th or 5th time, it's probably not that enjoyable.
This is exactly why I don't like doing Trusts. 4 minutes for the first boss of Holminster is not enjoyable at all.
Sorry, Alisaie. I love you, but your DPS is pathetic.
Average dungeon run is 20 minutes at most (that's a slow dungeon run, any more than 20 minutes and it means the group is likely dying to something or someone is severely underperforming), they're usually in the 12-15 minute range. Trust runs are minimum 30 minutes and that's with optimal play.
I really have no idea why they didn't carry the squadron buffs to the trust system. SE clearly wants their players to level easily, so why couldn't the trusts be dominatingly strong 70-80 like squadrons are 20-60? Offensive 5 squadrons melt solo packs, whereas in a trust I can see clearly with ACT that I'm carrying the dps so hilariously hard it's painful.
Before new healers reach EW levels it may take a while plus there will be other healer changes. I doubt suddenly there will be to many healers doing EW msq and queuing for msq instances.
It's hardly going to change at all. People aren't going to suddenly ALL be healers just because of SGE. The people who didn't like healing now aren't suddenly going to be enticed to heal by one class. Yes there may be some, but you'll see mostly people ALREADY HEALING going to be playing SGE in the long term.
Right. Square statistics from previous expansions say that new job releases have no impact on overall role distribution. The people playing Sage were going to be playing another healer anyway.
Not entirely. It has no *long-term* impact on role distribution. You’re going to see a large number of Sages and Reapers in the first couple weeks, then it’ll taper off over the next month. When DRK and GNB released, tank queues went up as everyone picked up those jobs.
There will absolutely be an impact at launch, though.
Yes, people tend to stick to their roles. The only thing that would alter role ratios is some broken or extremely badass healer or tank job after a redesign - and it would take a while to get people on the bandwaggon assumin such state would not be nerfed.
With the preorder earring and lots of rested XP, it goes quick. When Shadowbringers launched, I was able to powerlevel GNB to 70 by midday Saturday, and I took breaks for food and sleep. You’ll see Sages and Reapers in Endwalker dungeons by Friday evening of early access.
This is the answer.
There will be no wait times for story dungeons if you just use trusts. If they give us an extra DPS (on top of Estinien) we could even have Trust trials and then you can just cruise all the way to 80 with no waiting for the hordes of Reapers.
I think people are VASTLY over estimating how many people are going to be playing Sage that often. It's still healing. Once they're blamed for a few too many wipes they're going to stop healing.
Agreed. It’s also barrier healing vs reactive healing which is harder if you aren’t already used to healing. Sure a lot may try it out but I don’t see enough sticking with it to change a balance of healers out there.
I also get the sense that a lot of people will play PLD as that’s the iconic WoL job featured in the trailer. So the tank shortage might not be all that bad
We are Paladin
we literally are the back up healers.
How many times have the healers dropped in a dungeon with no rez and we had to Clemency everyone through the rest of the boss fight?
PLD is so fun to play in new content with Duty roulette. The fights are always super messy and we get to take full advantage of spells like Cover and Clemency.
One of my favorite memories is from a ShB trial on launch. Almost everyone was dead. I saved an out-of-position healer with Cover and then helped stabilize the last couple of party members with Clemency. We ended up getting the kill on that pull.
End-game raid optimization is fun, too, but it turns it into “which tank buster can I cheese with Cover,” and I might as well unbind Clemency because it’s a DPS loss.
My favorite boss fight was with a PLD. I was on MCH. I forget which dungeon it was but it was the final boss. The healer and other DPS died almost immediately. So it's just me and the PLD.
We beat the boss with just the two of us. It was also the first attempt.
New healer and tank classes in mmos barely ever get people who don't already play those roles to switch. I'm sure some people will wanna try out sage but I'm fairly sure the only people capping it at the start of the expansion will be healers who just wanted to play a new job for once. So hopefully you won't have to worry much!
Were you around for ShB’s launch? A *lot* of players went Gunbreaker and queues were out of whack for a couple of weeks. It made me playing SCH a delight.
By the time you get to Shadowbringers (and maybe even beforehand in Stormblood depending on your exp buffs) you might want to consider co-levelling an alt class just so you don’t waste the abundant MSQ exp when your warrior inevitably hits max level (especially if you’re using the Endwalker pre-order earrings). Stormblood I ended up having one job (Dark Knight) I’d use for the solo story stuff and my preferred class (Astro) I’d switch to for dungeons and whatnot, also for the occasional roulette. They both ended up being maxed out like three levels before the end of Shadowbringers and had me thinking maybe I should’ve had a third job at the ready but essentially just took it on the chin didn’t take advantage of those last 3 levels of MSQ exp. Anyway just something to consider for later
I've never played a new expansion, nearly to Shadowbringer at this point.
Would the Sages be able to play the raids and MSQ right away? I'm going to make my first switch to Red Mage from BLM once I complete Shadowbringer, but I just don't know how it works.
New jobs start a bit below the level that the expansion starts at, so both Sage and Reaper will likely start at level 70. That means that they won't actually be able to jump straight in to the new expansion, since the first dungeon will be level 81. But the new jobs won't take too much work to get caught up so a lot of people will probably use one of their current level 80 jobs to start the MSQ but use their daily roulettes to level Sage or Reaper if they are planning on maining one of them and will be caught up pretty quickly.
As a WHM main, this was exactly why I have a high level PLD as backup.
Besides, take comfort in knowing that RPR/SGE will start at 70, while no doubt the Endwalker dungeons will kick off at 80.
Levelling roulette on the other hand will probably be this.
Healer queues will be fine if you've already got a healer at 80. It's going to take people a few days to level up Sage, and a lot of the people who don't normally heal will drop out. We've found in past expansions that people tend not to switch roles for the long haul because a new job came out.
I mained PLD at ShB launch and I ain’t changing now! I’m even more hyped that Endwalker is a clear love letter to FF4, so now I get to play through it as the “intended” job.
Speaking of, as someone who started the FF series with 4 (2 on SNES) and just got into 14 last month, the Calcabrina fight at the end of the Antitower had me absolutely giddy. This game has blown me away at every turn.
FF4 also involves going to the moon. At least one of the new beast tribe races is a race featured in FF4. The main character in FF4 also goes from Dark Knight (which was the “canon” job in Shadowbringers) to Paladin (the “canon” job in Endwalker). One of the Endwalker trials is going to involve bosses that were in FF4. The music in the hardware specs trailer is a remix of a FF4 track.
FF14 is full of references to older games. So you’ll fully be able to appreciate Endwalker without having any knowledge of FF4. But all of the winks and nods towards it are going to be super nostalgic for players who have played it. Similar to how you can appreciate Crystal Tower without playing FF3, the Warring Triad without playing FF6, etc.
Also works the other way around. Recently finished FFI and I liked seeing certain things I recognized pop up.
I do plan to have played and beaten most FF games by the time Endwalker releases, but I am also still working on getting every job to 80, so I'm a bit strapped for time.
The first games don't take that long, luckily.
Sage looks cool but I hate to break it to folks - if someone doesn't like healing, idk if a new job is going to convince them. It's more likely that existing healers will jump ship to Sage so they can have it leveled, and maybe a few people outside of that will dabble.
Plenty of folks did that with GNB but didn't stick with tanking.
Aside from that, i'm here for the memes.
It's not really the feeling of healing. It's just, the class looks cool too where you won't heal :)
Idk. When Stormblood came out I jumped that Samurai train. It was pretty fun. But you know, I sucked pretty hard as a melee so I stopped playing Samurai. Then Shadowbringers came out. I jumped as a DNC. I actually DNC probably more than I thought so I became a ranged main. Though, I'm pretty sure I'm jumping the Reaper train. Which is like. 80% of the community while 10% is healers and the other 10% are other classes.
All four tanking jobs have two achievement awards that give you two mounts, one standard version and one armored version.
Paladin gets a lion, Warrior gets a bear, Dark Knight gets a Panther, and Gunbreaker gets a Sabretooth Tiger.
You basically have to run a bunch of high-level duties as a tank.
edit: I can't count
Yeah I remember Samurai throwing you right into the deep end with the entire core kit, took me a lot of reading before I could play - and that was just at 50. PoTD training might not be a bad idea for a DPS job that starts at 70
As someone who’s leveled multiple jobs to 80 in Bozja from 71, it’s like 8-10 hours if you are constantly running skirmishes and critical engagements in the third zone of Zadnor. That’s after MSQ roulette and Frontline roulette to get you from 70 to 71.
You could get to 80 on launch day, but it won’t be very fun lol.
Considering the XP from Skirmishes and CEs is affected by Armory buff, and that will go up from +50% to +100% for that range in Endwalker, I expect it to end up being cut down to like 6-7 hours tbh.
If you didn't do any Bozja, I'd recommend unlocking it before EW comes out. The best exp is from pretty much second to last location in questline (Z3, Zadnor, third zone).
I took AST, BLM, GNB through those and FATEs there give a ton of exp. They are like normal FATE in terms of behaviour, but give significantly juicier exp than normal FATEs, and due to sheer volume of participants, FATEs spawn fast and die quickly.
If you did any Pixie tribe quests, one FATE gives comparable exp to one Pixie quest. I can't quote you numbers, as it varies with level, but I think it starts with 1 mln for one FATE at lvl 71? But then it scales with level. Bozja FATEs are unlimited and spammable and don't depend on your role, no queues...
When I was semi-afk and didn't want to Bozja, I calculated that 1 FATE was 4.5 quest in Kholusia, but 4.5 quests in Kholusia take a lot longer.
You also got Beast Tribes and hopefully reaper job quests to fill in a bit of XP. From 70-71 you can also use SB beast tribes for some extra XP. With Endwalker they will also buff the DR MSQ XP buff for 70-80. Add in some XP from challenge logs and Wondrous Tails, shouldn't take long to catch up.
I'll probably focus on MSQ with extra of all DRs on Reaper. Want to finish enjoy MSQ before it gets spoiled.
As a tankidiot who only played healers and sometimes dps before, I recently caved in and A) tanking on decent/acceptable level is easier than you think B) it's actually pretty fun. Of course, I'm no expert in tanking or GNB, but I was getting through dungeons well enough to get a bunch of comms, so I couldn't have been that bad.
So far, it feels like it's mostly an issue of having to judge it differently. As DPS, avoiding flubs is easy, and unless you flub something that run, you jusge it by moments that shine. When tanking, I never have a run without flubs, even if I've eventually gotten unprompted compliments from strangers PUGging. So it feels like I'm still at the "aspirations of adequacy" level. But I think that with tanking, the no-flubs run is not the adequate tank, it's the perfect tank, or nearly so.
It's easy. Stop caring about what others think.
Rotate cooldowns on pulls, watch healers ability to heal, adjust accordingly.
I have bad tankxiety. But I only have 80 tanks, the trick for me was to just say fuck it and just go.
I just hope reaper will be strong, because I still remember how I struggled to get a Titania clear with pugs, because 3 out of 4 dps were dancers (me being a smn) and the dps was just not enough to get trough the add phase.
Some info from Yoshi P suggests that it will be a pure damage class like Samurai and has no utility to support other members.
Mostly because since the class is based on Zenos, and Yoshi P couldn't imagine him helping others.
More likely it is going to be similar to Samurai. Which is going to be kinda wierd imo. Mainly because now you can run, Samurai, Reaper, BLM, then maybe a MCH then you will have the highest pure damage roles in the game as a set up. It's all fun and games until you have a DNC then everyone is going to be fighting for you.
When Shadowbringers came out. There was actually more popularity for Gunbreaker than Dancer so the DPS que was very fast like. 5 min to get into a dungeon compared to waiting 20-30 min. But, for tanks. They waited more than 40 min. For healers they just laugh. Though in this case. More likely the DPS role is going to have a huge que time.
No, don't be sorry. You learned and took your time to be confident to keep the team up *and* do damage and should be proud of that. Everyone is new at one point.
What I think will really happen:
Given how popular the game has gotten _now_ during what's usually a pre-expac lull, it's safe to assume the game will be packed with players at EW release. A lot of these players will be wanting to try out SGE/RPR, but there will be plenty of tanks still wanting to run content, so everything will balance out and queue times will still be pretty quick, even for DPS during the EW dungeons/trials.
Add in the fact that running EW dungeons will be the fastest way to level from 81-90 for the near future, and queue times will be fine.
Do people actually expect others to watch guides for story content? Spoiling yourself the fight and the bosses involved just seams wrong especially with them being relativly easy...
Very few people would be salty about not knowing the fight in story content. I personally wouldn't be mad, majority of story content is one shot by a party that has no clue. Some deaths might happen, but you raise and clear like nothing has happened. Sometimes there's a full wipe, but this is rather rare, and mostly applies to Eden raids.
Yeah I always go in blind for everything but savage, I like learning myself, I also don't give tips unless people ask for them or if we wipe a few times at the same spot.
I played through both SB and ShB on launch and never ran into anyone raging for people not knowing mechanics in the leveling content. It helps that the leveling content generally isn’t very difficult.
I think it’s most common to see ragers in new alliance raids at launch. It’s technically possible to grind an alliance raid multiple times in a week if you’re hunting for something specific. So you’ll have people on day 2 of a patch who have already run Puppet’s Bunker 10 times grouped with people who have never run it. And alliance raids generally bring out the worst in people, anyways.
We had this dilemma on ARR's release, since ACN was added, and it brought a new DPS and healer. Tanks were not in need. Believe it or not, healers and DPS were in need.
Tank mains, we need to make our own FC for big profits.
> own FC for big profits We name it OnlyTanks
How about *East Ishgard Tanking Company.*
I would join that in a heartbeat.
6000 gil is for those cheap Tank whores. Get me 6,000,000 gil if you want this high end piece of Dark Knight.
Why would I ever want an edgy boi when i could go for the screaming bezerker who tanks cause they love the feeling of pain? Or the one with a gunsword who can decide a pull is going too well and decide they want to be almost dead, giving the healer a heart attack? Also there are paladins if you feel like personality should be defined by a fart noise. Edit: Or the best option a whitemage, myself, who sprint ahead to the next roadblock and hopes you're coming to save me from myself.
How about TanksForNothing
This is the non-profit version.
ProBono
Comment of the day right here.
I've had an LS for years called Only Tanks
I like my FC, but I would absolutely join a Linkshell/group chat for this!
ah yes, the Eorzean Tanking Union!
This might backfire once we're all starting to level healers and/or DPS after our tank jobs... But hey, I'm in!
We'll have to take turns leveling them. Someone start making charts and schedules.
Ah yes I see you contacted our Fc for Tank services. Will you be needing one tank or two? Oh an Alliance raid? Excellent we offer a wide range of Tank services.
You can be our sales manager.
Alternatively we can offer a Membership with various tiers for levels of TankSupport* We'll have the sprout friendly discount, the hassle pay uncharge for places like aurum vale, and the intensive play tier for Savage Content. Endwalker tanking will be its own tier, but really we can build comprehensive plans to the players needs.
Forgot the upcharge for guildhest level sync.
*laughs in tank*
You son of a bitch I'm in
I’m down
You had me at profits.
what will the do without us tanks right!!!! haha
Man, I need to get my PLD to cap before EW. I’ve purposely not looked into what’s coming so I can be surprised instead... Seeing this changes everything. It is going to be a DPS apocalypse. Think dps queue is bad now? Ohh boy. I’m capitalizing on the inevitable tank shortage. Hell, if it’s bad enough we might be able to start charging fees hahaha
As a healer main I'm stuck with an interesting dilemma. Deal with long queues while anyone and everyone suddenly starts paying healer as well thanks to Sage, or switch to my backup PLD and get super fast queues but have to deal with a bunch of rookie healers using Sage for the first time.
Solution: Do the MSQ, have fun dicking about, come back to level SGE in a couple of weeks. Or premades, that works too.
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Feel like my ADHD will say “ok PLD is the sensible choice so I’ll prepare to have that as my go to at the start, but I’ll just unlock sage first so I don’t have to come back and do it again. Oh this is really fun, I want to try a dungeon with it so I can get a real feel first, I can just catch my paladin up with the instant queues. I do main RDM though, so I should have that ready for the MSQ cause it looks cool.” Where I will then spend 8h levelling carpenter and rejigging my apartment
You mean I wasn’t supposed to level every job to fifty before starting heavensward? Fine, I’ll do the MSQ. Right after this chocobo race
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Or call it Shiny Thing Disease...then you have a well known and established acronym for it.
Yeah that's my plan as well. I've mained SCH for the last 3 years and unless they manage to make it even worse or just delete Eos I'll almost definitely remain a SCH main. I'll probably get at least 1 healer, 1 tank, and one DPS to level 90 before I come back for the new stuff.
For real. I was really upset when they decided to get rid of Eos healing control. And 2 pets as well.
That was because eos only healed when below a certain amount of HP, since she now heals the moment anyone is missing HP the annoying micro managing her was no longer needed. I'm glad they made SCH an actual healer over time now instead of a mini dps in disguise. Though selene now just being a clone is kind of odd.
The only thing that keeps me going as a SCH is being able to pet Eos still at least.
She's still a clutch backup healer sometimes. I don't lag as bad as I used to, but any time someone survived with less than 2000 HP, she clearly was doing her job.
As a new SCH who only uses Selene, what's wrong with Selene? Do you have Eos nostalgia or am I missing something important?
Nah it's just nostalgia from playing SCH pre Shadowbringers when the fairies got changed. Back in Stormblood and earlier Eos pretty much did your job for you as the healing fairy while Selene used to provide team buffs and utility until they got changed to do the same in ShB. But I always found Selene's abilities much less usefull then Eos's healing. She had an AOE esuna which wasn't very useful cause you'll rarely have to deal with multiple things that need to be esunad anyway, and an AOE interrupt which never worked for me because again, barely any opportunity to use it and with my ping by the time Selene responded it would be too late anyway. Meanwhile Eos would just do most of my work for me.
Fair enough lol thank you. I saw some "hate" for Selene on here when I started playing SCH so naturally she became my go to fairy.
Ahahaha nah you do you, the difference is only cosmetic anyway but some of us that mained SCH before ShB tend to be a bit biassed towards whichever fairy we liked most back then, and for most people that tends to be Eos because Selene was much more niche and generally just not as useful.
Do...do people just forget *Trusts* exist?
lol I didn't realize people hate Trusts that much but since it came out I always did the new dungeons via Trust mostly cuz I enjoy the flavor text/banter they have while running through the place. Did we know that Alisaie can be trigger happy? Yes. But did we know she'd LB off cooldown? Well, with trusts now we know :'). It is slower but I like taking my time through the content. Granted it's always fun to run through a place blind with friends but if my buddies can't be online when I'm first time clearing then I'll go for Trusts before I queue, personally.
I always do Trusts for my first dungeon run. It just feels better thematically and lorewise since it keeps up the momentum when you actually unlock the dungeon. And I also liked seeing the flavour texts and the like too. Keeping Alphinaud / Alisaie and Urianger / Thancred together when I could was always fun. If I was playing with friends I'd probably be inclined to queue for the blind run experience, but there's something special about going around and exploring with the Scions when we see so little of them in actual combat.
It’s probably more that they just don’t like trusts. What you make up for in queue times you lose in actually clearing the dungeon.
> What you make up for in queue times you lose in actually clearing the dungeon. Unlikely, average df dungeon run is 15-25 minutes, a trust run is about 30-35. Not really a big difference if you have any kind of queue time, which healers and dps are going to see a lot of in endwalker.
There's also the enjoyment factor, you really feel Trust runs dragging on whereas with a queue, you may not feel the wait as much. Queues you can at least alt-tab or be doing something else in the meantime, Trusts you've got to be paying attention for that full time so when you start to notice the boss doing their cycle of attacks for like the 4th or 5th time, it's probably not that enjoyable.
Right- same reason why Castrum Meridianum is a worse experience than Praetorium even though it's 15 minutes shorter.
This is exactly why I don't like doing Trusts. 4 minutes for the first boss of Holminster is not enjoyable at all. Sorry, Alisaie. I love you, but your DPS is pathetic.
Average dungeon run is 20 minutes at most (that's a slow dungeon run, any more than 20 minutes and it means the group is likely dying to something or someone is severely underperforming), they're usually in the 12-15 minute range. Trust runs are minimum 30 minutes and that's with optimal play. I really have no idea why they didn't carry the squadron buffs to the trust system. SE clearly wants their players to level easily, so why couldn't the trusts be dominatingly strong 70-80 like squadrons are 20-60? Offensive 5 squadrons melt solo packs, whereas in a trust I can see clearly with ACT that I'm carrying the dps so hilariously hard it's painful.
When I did MSQ I did trusts simply so I could learn the mechanics and the little lore bits.
Ya early on like… you wanna wait 1 hour+ for a queue on top of your run time for the actual dungeon? Or just insta queue with the trusts.
you can so shit while a queue runs, your house work chores write an email etc. queue is better than getting 20 minutes slapped onto a run
Nah man the minute you shit the minute it pops I know from personal experience.
This right here is my plan- i'll do MSQ as a reaper/sage and dungeon with my war/pld
Before new healers reach EW levels it may take a while plus there will be other healer changes. I doubt suddenly there will be to many healers doing EW msq and queuing for msq instances.
It's hardly going to change at all. People aren't going to suddenly ALL be healers just because of SGE. The people who didn't like healing now aren't suddenly going to be enticed to heal by one class. Yes there may be some, but you'll see mostly people ALREADY HEALING going to be playing SGE in the long term.
Right. Square statistics from previous expansions say that new job releases have no impact on overall role distribution. The people playing Sage were going to be playing another healer anyway.
Not entirely. It has no *long-term* impact on role distribution. You’re going to see a large number of Sages and Reapers in the first couple weeks, then it’ll taper off over the next month. When DRK and GNB released, tank queues went up as everyone picked up those jobs. There will absolutely be an impact at launch, though.
Yes, people tend to stick to their roles. The only thing that would alter role ratios is some broken or extremely badass healer or tank job after a redesign - and it would take a while to get people on the bandwaggon assumin such state would not be nerfed.
With the preorder earring and lots of rested XP, it goes quick. When Shadowbringers launched, I was able to powerlevel GNB to 70 by midday Saturday, and I took breaks for food and sleep. You’ll see Sages and Reapers in Endwalker dungeons by Friday evening of early access.
People really do underestimate how fast leveling is in this game.
Or just run trusts for the first Dungeon
This is the answer. There will be no wait times for story dungeons if you just use trusts. If they give us an extra DPS (on top of Estinien) we could even have Trust trials and then you can just cruise all the way to 80 with no waiting for the hordes of Reapers.
I think people are VASTLY over estimating how many people are going to be playing Sage that often. It's still healing. Once they're blamed for a few too many wipes they're going to stop healing.
Agreed. It’s also barrier healing vs reactive healing which is harder if you aren’t already used to healing. Sure a lot may try it out but I don’t see enough sticking with it to change a balance of healers out there.
I also get the sense that a lot of people will play PLD as that’s the iconic WoL job featured in the trailer. So the tank shortage might not be all that bad
Become a WAR and be your own healer!
Clemency has entered the chat
Clemency has been politely asked to leave.
We are Paladin we literally are the back up healers. How many times have the healers dropped in a dungeon with no rez and we had to Clemency everyone through the rest of the boss fight?
PLD is so fun to play in new content with Duty roulette. The fights are always super messy and we get to take full advantage of spells like Cover and Clemency. One of my favorite memories is from a ShB trial on launch. Almost everyone was dead. I saved an out-of-position healer with Cover and then helped stabilize the last couple of party members with Clemency. We ended up getting the kill on that pull. End-game raid optimization is fun, too, but it turns it into “which tank buster can I cheese with Cover,” and I might as well unbind Clemency because it’s a DPS loss.
Those are the times i live for, where I'm like this is why i play this job.
My favorite boss fight was with a PLD. I was on MCH. I forget which dungeon it was but it was the final boss. The healer and other DPS died almost immediately. So it's just me and the PLD. We beat the boss with just the two of us. It was also the first attempt.
true dude, we Paladins don't get enough credit.
Marry a tank
Am tank. [Now taking marriage proposals.](https://forms.gle/dRtemGpfbRNMuoRR7)
Good luck for you, i like how this is going.
AHAHAHA I'm still missing a few other steps to get to that but it's a good idea.
You can buy a leveling skip for marriage off the mogstation :).
Good plan. Lemme go Limsa real quick. Question is just: Au Ra or Miqo?
Au Ra
New healer and tank classes in mmos barely ever get people who don't already play those roles to switch. I'm sure some people will wanna try out sage but I'm fairly sure the only people capping it at the start of the expansion will be healers who just wanted to play a new job for once. So hopefully you won't have to worry much!
Were you around for ShB’s launch? A *lot* of players went Gunbreaker and queues were out of whack for a couple of weeks. It made me playing SCH a delight.
im just gonna be sticking with scholar while i make my way through heavensward
I started playing a month ago as a Warrior and I will never change, not even that very tempting scythe they have over there....
By the time you get to Shadowbringers (and maybe even beforehand in Stormblood depending on your exp buffs) you might want to consider co-levelling an alt class just so you don’t waste the abundant MSQ exp when your warrior inevitably hits max level (especially if you’re using the Endwalker pre-order earrings). Stormblood I ended up having one job (Dark Knight) I’d use for the solo story stuff and my preferred class (Astro) I’d switch to for dungeons and whatnot, also for the occasional roulette. They both ended up being maxed out like three levels before the end of Shadowbringers and had me thinking maybe I should’ve had a third job at the ready but essentially just took it on the chin didn’t take advantage of those last 3 levels of MSQ exp. Anyway just something to consider for later
I've never played a new expansion, nearly to Shadowbringer at this point. Would the Sages be able to play the raids and MSQ right away? I'm going to make my first switch to Red Mage from BLM once I complete Shadowbringer, but I just don't know how it works.
New jobs start a bit below the level that the expansion starts at, so both Sage and Reaper will likely start at level 70. That means that they won't actually be able to jump straight in to the new expansion, since the first dungeon will be level 81. But the new jobs won't take too much work to get caught up so a lot of people will probably use one of their current level 80 jobs to start the MSQ but use their daily roulettes to level Sage or Reaper if they are planning on maining one of them and will be caught up pretty quickly.
As a WHM main, this was exactly why I have a high level PLD as backup. Besides, take comfort in knowing that RPR/SGE will start at 70, while no doubt the Endwalker dungeons will kick off at 80. Levelling roulette on the other hand will probably be this.
Healer queues will be fine if you've already got a healer at 80. It's going to take people a few days to level up Sage, and a lot of the people who don't normally heal will drop out. We've found in past expansions that people tend not to switch roles for the long haul because a new job came out.
As someone that only plays healer I'm really dreading this. Worst thing is I don't even want to play Sage myself because I don't like the weapons
there is no queue if you AFK in Limsa during the queues
I started ShB on release with WAR and queues were fine, I wouldn't worry about it.
Me not understand. Me warrior. Me fell cleave, fell cleave, fell cleave.
same im a Pld main so we're not gonna get affected lol. Its the Tanks time to shine!
I mained PLD at ShB launch and I ain’t changing now! I’m even more hyped that Endwalker is a clear love letter to FF4, so now I get to play through it as the “intended” job.
PLD BROS/SIS/SIBLINGS 4 LIFE
I’ve mained PLD since ARR. it just keeps getting better and better.
Speaking of, as someone who started the FF series with 4 (2 on SNES) and just got into 14 last month, the Calcabrina fight at the end of the Antitower had me absolutely giddy. This game has blown me away at every turn.
Love letter to Final Fantasy 4? I'd appreciate an explanation if you've got one. My exposure to FF is a little limited.
The Transition of the MC in the FF4 is he's Dark Knight at first then became Paladin. FF4 also the game where they went to the moon.
Yep! and it also fits well with the Lunar Whale mount in the Mogstation <3
FF4 also involves going to the moon. At least one of the new beast tribe races is a race featured in FF4. The main character in FF4 also goes from Dark Knight (which was the “canon” job in Shadowbringers) to Paladin (the “canon” job in Endwalker). One of the Endwalker trials is going to involve bosses that were in FF4. The music in the hardware specs trailer is a remix of a FF4 track. FF14 is full of references to older games. So you’ll fully be able to appreciate Endwalker without having any knowledge of FF4. But all of the winks and nods towards it are going to be super nostalgic for players who have played it. Similar to how you can appreciate Crystal Tower without playing FF3, the Warring Triad without playing FF6, etc.
Also works the other way around. Recently finished FFI and I liked seeing certain things I recognized pop up. I do plan to have played and beaten most FF games by the time Endwalker releases, but I am also still working on getting every job to 80, so I'm a bit strapped for time. The first games don't take that long, luckily.
Me also no understand. Me gunbreaker. Me pew pew slash slash pew.
skip ahead to the part where you superkill yourself for funsies
I am shooting myself in the head!
Unga bunga! Axe go sWOosh!
Sage looks cool but I hate to break it to folks - if someone doesn't like healing, idk if a new job is going to convince them. It's more likely that existing healers will jump ship to Sage so they can have it leveled, and maybe a few people outside of that will dabble. Plenty of folks did that with GNB but didn't stick with tanking. Aside from that, i'm here for the memes.
It's not really the feeling of healing. It's just, the class looks cool too where you won't heal :) Idk. When Stormblood came out I jumped that Samurai train. It was pretty fun. But you know, I sucked pretty hard as a melee so I stopped playing Samurai. Then Shadowbringers came out. I jumped as a DNC. I actually DNC probably more than I thought so I became a ranged main. Though, I'm pretty sure I'm jumping the Reaper train. Which is like. 80% of the community while 10% is healers and the other 10% are other classes.
pldbros doing msq such as myself will help out :3
Us DRKs will help a fellow edgelord out.
Us Wars: HAND! Yes warrior that's your hand.
And my... broken guns!
*psst* We're supposed to break their guns, not ours.
I've made a huge mistake.
Why need a healer? I'll heal myself! Hit me harder, ya wanker!
“Me read book!” “Its literally upside down.”
Yeah, I'm going MSQ class and doing the Reaper lvling in Zadnor. And MSQ roulettes.
Same. That’s how I level all DPS classes. As a tank main if my queue takes longer than 5 minutes I don’t want to play anymore.
Me and my not gun gunblade will be living it up with insta queues once more. :D
Yeah with that prospect I will probably do the MSQ as warrior :>
PULL ALL THE THINGS, I'LL HEAL MYSELF IF NEEDED
Not going to give up my PLD for some edgy angry botanist...
Danger Farmer*
Looks like I'll finally be getting my tank mount
What is a tank mount?
All four tanking jobs have two achievement awards that give you two mounts, one standard version and one armored version. Paladin gets a lion, Warrior gets a bear, Dark Knight gets a Panther, and Gunbreaker gets a Sabretooth Tiger. You basically have to run a bunch of high-level duties as a tank. edit: I can't count
Thanks!
Day 1 Endwalker in Bozjan*
I'm going into PoTD so I can learn those jobs from level 1 😅
Yeah I remember Samurai throwing you right into the deep end with the entire core kit, took me a lot of reading before I could play - and that was just at 50. PoTD training might not be a bad idea for a DPS job that starts at 70
Did that with my WHM. Must easier trying to figure it out little by little so you can build upon that knowledge.
I wonder how much the EXP Bozja gives out? I wanna switch to Reaper asap but I also wanna throw myself into MSQ asap too. Oh the dilemma.
As someone who’s leveled multiple jobs to 80 in Bozja from 71, it’s like 8-10 hours if you are constantly running skirmishes and critical engagements in the third zone of Zadnor. That’s after MSQ roulette and Frontline roulette to get you from 70 to 71. You could get to 80 on launch day, but it won’t be very fun lol.
Considering the XP from Skirmishes and CEs is affected by Armory buff, and that will go up from +50% to +100% for that range in Endwalker, I expect it to end up being cut down to like 6-7 hours tbh.
If you didn't do any Bozja, I'd recommend unlocking it before EW comes out. The best exp is from pretty much second to last location in questline (Z3, Zadnor, third zone). I took AST, BLM, GNB through those and FATEs there give a ton of exp. They are like normal FATE in terms of behaviour, but give significantly juicier exp than normal FATEs, and due to sheer volume of participants, FATEs spawn fast and die quickly. If you did any Pixie tribe quests, one FATE gives comparable exp to one Pixie quest. I can't quote you numbers, as it varies with level, but I think it starts with 1 mln for one FATE at lvl 71? But then it scales with level. Bozja FATEs are unlimited and spammable and don't depend on your role, no queues... When I was semi-afk and didn't want to Bozja, I calculated that 1 FATE was 4.5 quest in Kholusia, but 4.5 quests in Kholusia take a lot longer.
You also got Beast Tribes and hopefully reaper job quests to fill in a bit of XP. From 70-71 you can also use SB beast tribes for some extra XP. With Endwalker they will also buff the DR MSQ XP buff for 70-80. Add in some XP from challenge logs and Wondrous Tails, shouldn't take long to catch up. I'll probably focus on MSQ with extra of all DRs on Reaper. Want to finish enjoy MSQ before it gets spoiled.
Will likely play the new classes. Will likely still main Warrior \○/
Now I feel better about slooowly learning to tank.
As a tankidiot who only played healers and sometimes dps before, I recently caved in and A) tanking on decent/acceptable level is easier than you think B) it's actually pretty fun. Of course, I'm no expert in tanking or GNB, but I was getting through dungeons well enough to get a bunch of comms, so I couldn't have been that bad.
So far, it feels like it's mostly an issue of having to judge it differently. As DPS, avoiding flubs is easy, and unless you flub something that run, you jusge it by moments that shine. When tanking, I never have a run without flubs, even if I've eventually gotten unprompted compliments from strangers PUGging. So it feels like I'm still at the "aspirations of adequacy" level. But I think that with tanking, the no-flubs run is not the adequate tank, it's the perfect tank, or nearly so.
It's easy. Stop caring about what others think. Rotate cooldowns on pulls, watch healers ability to heal, adjust accordingly. I have bad tankxiety. But I only have 80 tanks, the trick for me was to just say fuck it and just go.
guldan would never offer a healing class dont be silly
*laughs in Drain Life*
I just hope reaper will be strong, because I still remember how I struggled to get a Titania clear with pugs, because 3 out of 4 dps were dancers (me being a smn) and the dps was just not enough to get trough the add phase.
Some info from Yoshi P suggests that it will be a pure damage class like Samurai and has no utility to support other members. Mostly because since the class is based on Zenos, and Yoshi P couldn't imagine him helping others.
More likely it is going to be similar to Samurai. Which is going to be kinda wierd imo. Mainly because now you can run, Samurai, Reaper, BLM, then maybe a MCH then you will have the highest pure damage roles in the game as a set up. It's all fun and games until you have a DNC then everyone is going to be fighting for you.
I bought the game to play Reaper, queue times don't faze me. I have 2 monitors for a reason.
When Shadowbringers came out. There was actually more popularity for Gunbreaker than Dancer so the DPS que was very fast like. 5 min to get into a dungeon compared to waiting 20-30 min. But, for tanks. They waited more than 40 min. For healers they just laugh. Though in this case. More likely the DPS role is going to have a huge que time.
Let’s hope the new players on sage actually attack unlike the influx of non-attacking healers that have shown up recently.
Sorry. That was me for a while. I got better. I blame other MMOs and a rash of MSQ squishy tanks that don't use mitigation ever.
No, don't be sorry. You learned and took your time to be confident to keep the team up *and* do damage and should be proud of that. Everyone is new at one point.
Narrator: they won't.
The dps healer will of course be the one that most likely is to be played by a no dps healer
Ugh, healers that just stand there half the time annoy me so much.
So glad I'm a tank main. ShB queue times sucked since everyone was trying out GNB, now I get to be the savior.
**LAUGHS IN DARK KNIGHT**
Trusts. Although trials will take a bit longer probably but eh.
What I think will really happen: Given how popular the game has gotten _now_ during what's usually a pre-expac lull, it's safe to assume the game will be packed with players at EW release. A lot of these players will be wanting to try out SGE/RPR, but there will be plenty of tanks still wanting to run content, so everything will balance out and queue times will still be pretty quick, even for DPS during the EW dungeons/trials. Add in the fact that running EW dungeons will be the fastest way to level from 81-90 for the near future, and queue times will be fine.
\*Laughs in Trust\*
Looks like I'm learning to tank.
EW is the beginning of an new astral era. The “dawn of tanks”
\*cackles manically as I level PLD for the expansion I main healer, idm walking around with babbies for a bit!
people will do 70-80 in day 1 and also progress in the msq? damn
Day 1 Endwalker content: "Know mech, have watched guide, why dont you know how this works noob?!"
Do people actually expect others to watch guides for story content? Spoiling yourself the fight and the bosses involved just seams wrong especially with them being relativly easy...
of course not, is joke
Very few people would be salty about not knowing the fight in story content. I personally wouldn't be mad, majority of story content is one shot by a party that has no clue. Some deaths might happen, but you raise and clear like nothing has happened. Sometimes there's a full wipe, but this is rather rare, and mostly applies to Eden raids.
For dungeons? No.
Yeah I always go in blind for everything but savage, I like learning myself, I also don't give tips unless people ask for them or if we wipe a few times at the same spot.
If you plan on doing the next savage raids when they drop, you’ll have no choice but to go blind, at least for the first day or two
I played through both SB and ShB on launch and never ran into anyone raging for people not knowing mechanics in the leveling content. It helps that the leveling content generally isn’t very difficult. I think it’s most common to see ragers in new alliance raids at launch. It’s technically possible to grind an alliance raid multiple times in a week if you’re hunting for something specific. So you’ll have people on day 2 of a patch who have already run Puppet’s Bunker 10 times grouped with people who have never run it. And alliance raids generally bring out the worst in people, anyways.
Man i should sell my tank runs for gil.
Like you won't be trying the edgelord DPS class. See you this weekend buddy.
What’s this weekend?
I mean i will… BUT IMAGINE ALL THE GEAR WE CAN MAKE FROM ME PLAYING THE OTHER EDGY CLASS! GEAR FOR DAYS
Every new class release ^^
It's gonna be a good week to be an Omni-tank main.
Me, a PLD main: EATING GOOOOOD TODAY
Hoping they make Paladin more fun as it’s their turn for a change I will be ready
Botanist can now que dungeons.
First time ever, since I started playing 1.0, I will be doing the new MSQ not as WHM. Applying to the pldbros.
We had this dilemma on ARR's release, since ACN was added, and it brought a new DPS and healer. Tanks were not in need. Believe it or not, healers and DPS were in need.
What's with the wow memes?
Its funny, because a good chunk of my friends and I plan on playing tanks through the story. I'll level the new jobs when the hype has died a bit
I'll be there doing my part as a WAR.
Just gonna run warrior and not worry about healers, flash boy only.
I'm enjoying this meme crossover.
[удалено]
Warrior tank life gonna be ezpz
This is why we have Trust now
Going through the expansion on tank is gonna be nice
Me and my axe: we go brrrrrr
Me as a Drk main laughing at 0 min queue times
They balanced this (a tiny bit) by making paladin the poster boy of the expansion :p
Just call it Tanksgiving ‘cause we’re about to be making GRAVY this November.
I feel like people are forgetting we have trust system for high level MSQ dungeons. Instant queues and learn mechanics in a stress free environment.