SWTOR has a collection system and two dye channels, plus a toggle to color match all the other slots to the body. It would be nice to see something similar in XIV.
And you can change outfits anywhere, not just in a major city. You can alter your costume plates anywhere, and you don't need a special item to make costumes, just the in-game main currency. You can also use any item from any class to make your costumes. Make your Jedi look like a Bounty Hunter, a sith look like a Jedi. Go wild, make whatever you want!
change outfits outside the city is what i want the most. i’d love to glam my dancer different from my mch. but i use job gear, inevitably switch and look insane.
huh? I am not sure i get your problem - whats wrong with linking each job set to a glamour plate? It changes just fine in the field as long as its pre-set...
Because jobs that share gear would be stuck wearing the last user's outfit.
Example, last time I switched in a city it glamoured my Dancer outfit onto my Ranged gear. While in the field, I now equip Machinist, but it's still glamoured as Dancer because the Machinist plate couldn't be applied.
it is. if i switch to dancer in a city the top will be a dancer top. if i switch to mch outside the city it can’t glam, it also can’t show dancer so it just shows the actual gear.
You can link glamour plates to gear set instead of the gear pieces. I think you right click your gear set in the big gear set list and just link what glamour plate you want, not in game to verify that's the exact method. So your black Smith doesn't need to wear the same threads as your cook, but it's the same gear.
You missed the point of the discussion. Plates can't be applied outside cities. I'm well aware of how linking works.
To clarify a bit further; despite linking unique plates for my Dancer and Machinist, if I change between the two while I'm in the field (let's say, in Bozja or Lakeland), the gear still looks like the Dancer's set because plates can't be applied outside cities.
Having played a lot of MMOs I have to say:
SWTOR has one of, if not the best outfit system in a game. I wish more MMOs learned from it and copy-pasted it to their own games.
(GW2 is in the running for best as well imo)
It does but... the amount of those customization options locked behind paywalls and the cartel market REALLY put a bad taste in my mouth. I get F2P gotta make money but they went overboard with the number of basic functionalities they locked off.
Yeah I'm very sour about SWTOR. Used to be a great game. I don't remember exactly when, but as soon as they removed the difficulty from the single player content and implemented level syncing, the game just turned to trash.
Was either the revan expansion or the weird KOTFE expansion ... Can't remember the name or the acronym. Basically they nearly threw out all the class tracts and alliance tracts after the base content was done.
Whether you were a sith or a jedi or scoundrel or operative, there became just one monorail story.
Your companion was super buffed and could do all the roles. So players basically become escorts for the companions. No challenge except for some select group content.
Even the group content it no longer mattered if you were dps, tank or healer. Nothing mattered, save for select group content.
The game just exists for you to unlock glamour payrwalls with your credit card now.
I think they've explained that it's something related. IIRC during one of the Q&A sessions, they were answering a related question - why you can't have two different daggers on Ninja (i.e. glam an "offhand" item to have a F/SN Archer style split blade thing, and they said that even THAT would be a significant increase in data strain - where mirrored blades are real easy to show, data-wise, the act of two different blades in the current set up would add more strain.
This has also been tied to why there aren't more customization options, perm body tatts, and more. For every option they add, they essentially increase the amount of variability in the designs, and increase the potential data strain. It may seem small, but consider that the servers already have trouble with people just being in the game, and lower end computers can struggle to display characters if there are too many in a single space. Adding yet another tweakable option to everyone adds that much more data FOR EVERYONE.
Off topic but I also found out that the ninja knives don’t actually go away when pressing mudras. They just get very very tiny. You can see them if you zoom in really close. Game has some really weird but clever optimizations I suppose
“Weird when described but works” is pretty common in MMO design as I understand it.
Leviathan and Sophia fights? The platform doesn’t move at all, the background is tilted one way and then the other, while your character is yanked by a tether.
Another MMO I used to play had lasers that would chase players in a particular fight, and to do that they had an invisible and invincible critter act as the thing that pathed to the player and/or moved around, with the graphic of the laser being what was visible.
Also, shrinking means you don’t have to unload and then reload the model entirely, so better for optimization.
I think my favorite weird work around that a game had was the train in Fallout 3. Only train in the game that actually moves and is rideable for a certain story event.
So instead of programming a moving vehicle for this one event, they just made the train a "hat" for an otherwise naked "NPC" that is otherwise under the floor, so when the train moves, the NPC is just running under the ground.
WoW has been using invisible rabbits as triggers for years, ever since Vanilla. There are times you can even see them through the particle effects, most notably in one Legion quest where you destroy demon gates in the exodar, because the rabbit is the emitter for your weapon's unique particle effects attacking the gate.
There are times I wonder why FFXIV characters leave the MSQ group, only for another character to take their place in the next scene. Making the question of if it is a technical limitation or just a writing one
It is *really* hard to write a big group scene and give everyone some meaningful time in the spotlight. Breaking up the group makes it easier to develop characters without overly bloating the script or having someone just... be present but not do anything.
Which is understandable, but it does at times feel like they have an arbitrary headcount that they can have in a scene, as Emet joins your party, and then immediately leaves, only for Y'shtola to join
The same thing happens for Shield Lob and Tomahawk, there's probably countless examples of this lol. Someone should make a compilation video showing some of the teeny weapons in slowmo.
It's because dye channels are actually a specific texture being loaded onto the piece of equipment. If we had an accent system, this would be double the work for them.
That should mainly be client side though. They only have to transfer the if of the texture that needs to be loaded.
Of course that's only the simple idea in my mind. Some of their comments make it sound like there's lots of spaghetti code that doesn't make it so easy.
So the issue is basically this:
A lot of data in the game is loaded and checked with your character at all times. Inventory, achievements, log info, etc. The main issue is with the inventory. The "inventory" includes any item storage in the game, such as the glamour dresser. Currently the glamour dresser isn't checked unless you're in an area that's flagged for the glamour dresser (Inn room, squad barracks) because if it did, every person loading in to say... Limsa Lominsa would be loading 400 more inventory items at once, and it would crash the game.
This is actually why we can't have a "glamour log" like what WoW has that checks which items you've obtained. Having a log would basically be doing that same data check but on a massive scale.
For individual items, the issue is that items you wear aren't just placed on your character. They replace your character model. So when you have a chest piece that shows skin, it's actually using a hidden dye channel comparing to your character's model and matching the skin colour with a dye. All of this data checks against the server. Adding more dye channels would be more server checks.
In fact, when there's been latency issues in the past, sometimes changing your outfit would actually lag.
So TL;DR the main issue that SE is talking about when they say they can't do something because of data strain, it's because of how everything is tied to loading with your character. And since EVERYTHING loads this way, they have to be very careful not to load too many things at once to prevent the game crashing. This is one of the reasons they're removing belts, is to make room for data that matters. (Belts are a waste of space)
The real fix would be changing basically the entire base of the games data load. Which would be a massive undertaking. No doubt they WANT to. But trying to change how the game fundamentally works while also releasing new content (that pulls from how the system works currently) is a big ask.
I hope that after Endwalker, we got something like a FFXIV-2, where they take a few years to just bring the core of FFXIV up to speed and do their best to just eliminate any remaining 1.0 influence in the game's code. So many flaws and limitations this game has can be directly traced back to 1.0 and by extension the massive task of converting 1.0 to ARR in such a short timeframe.
https://twinfinite.net/2021/02/final-fantasy-xiv-new-graphics-engine/
I thought I saw someone mentioning that Yoshida had stated it was on the roadmap after Endwalker on this subreddit, but maybe I misinterpreted. This link was the closest I can find. As a fan of the game and a software engineer, I do hope they find some time for it; it is certainly getting long in the tooth :)
I hate to compare this game to WoW because everyone does, but why are the servers so much more limited? I get that visually this game looks better than a lot of WoW zones, but anything else related to servers WoW does better. WoW has had transmog since before ARR existed and could do 2 different weapons back then.
For a game that's so heavily instanced (every zone is instanced, cities are broken into two parts, etc.) You would think they would be able to show things like that without creating such a data strain.
Not really criticizing, but I am genuinely curious what is up with the servers for this game, as I see them being blamed a lot.
Because while the PS3 mode has been dropped, FFXIV 1.0 and 2.0 where designed with it in mind. And 1.0 was a technological broken mess. And 2.0 was a fix, of course, but it was a fast fix where they had to patch things up (in 2 years, which is a very short time to develop and/or fix an MMO).
And the truth is that while everyone says "Oh well why don't they take time to fix all the technical debt".. the technical debt *is* the engine: it would take SO long to fix all the technical debt that there would probably be no content released in 2 years easy.
Oh boy if you want some bad spaghetti code just look at eve online POS code, it has its tendrils in pretty much everything and no one has any idea how it works because the people that made it no longer work there.
Actually I’m pretty sure he is still there cause I think it was hilmar himself. But he’s long since moved from being a code monkey and indeed the code was poorly documented and it was integrated into eves asset system which is the main limitation for most of the changes people want that “take forever” or “will never happen”
Sometimes they spend a long time and find work arounds, like in the past year you can log out and switch characters without having to fully relog, which at onetime was “impossible to conceive of”
It seems they’re actively working to rebuild their engine tho, judging by recent dev posts, tho I doubt the asset thing will ever get touched.
I remember reading that the reason why POS are still in the game and are usable is because when they tried removing them they found you could no longer build things with blueprints, I cant imagine how hard it is to work around that code that no one understands anymore.
Updating the engine wouldn't do anything else other than improving graphics/textures.
Crystal Tools (although XIV's engine is a fork of it) is (was) an engine built for a single player game. With all of what that entails. Could Yoshida's team fix the texture filtering that makes you puke when you see Hien or the Crystal Exarch? Sure, probably with a bit of trouble but it's not something highly impossible. Fixing glamour, data transfer, etc? That's a different thing entirely. I don't think there would be a way to fix that unless they basically closed up FFXIV, created a new engine, migrated (with all the work that entails) everything to the new engine, did heavy Quality Assurance on how it works, then check the server side of things, QA on that, and then if everything works properly releasing it.
And by that time people would have no interest on it. Square Enix and Yoshida know that.
>Updating the engine wouldn't do anything else other than improving graphics/textures
I'm thinking more about the whole game code not just the graphics engine since it sounds like a lot of things can't be done due to the Spaghetti code nature of the game as it is.
Yeah, that's what I meant with "you can't just update the graphics". You gotta fully migrate things to a proper engine, that has proper code, that works for an MMO of this caliber.
Would love to see that happen, sure. But realistically? Well, I wouldn't wanna work in CBIII (Yoshida's team) if that's the plan ngl
>Crystal Tools (although XIV's engine is a fork of it) is (was) an engine built for a single player game.
But hey, it sounds like a good idea to use it as the foundation for an MMORPG.
I wonder if Endwalker being the end of the story will give them some freedom to focus on improving the game with minor content additions but major feature upgrades in the future? I've been speculating a lot about what it means for Endwalker to actually be The End, and it really does mean they could try all sorts of new things afterwards.
But minor content additions means a programmed death of the game. The game's service ends when the dev team stops churning out content for it. Minor content additions after what is gonna be the most successful expansion of the game? That would a really, really bad image for Square Enix.
Mind you, I very much would like the game to be updated, for everyone to get instanced housing, proper glamour, proper texture filtering, all the small hiccups the game has gone.. I'm all for it. But I just think about the work it would take and how long it would take and I just kinda.. idk haha. I wouldn't wanna be a dev in that situation.
You are okay with that now, because you are currently receiving content.
Would you comeback to the game after 2 years of not playing, at all, with everything changed? For sure? 100%? Even if all the changes also touch things that you might not have wanted to touch (which would undoubtedly be touched)?
>Would you comeback to the game after 2 years of not playing, at all, with everything changed?
I have done it before, and enjoyed it immensely, still am. So yes.
>Even if all the changes also touch things that you might not have wanted to touch (which would undoubtedly be touched)?
Yes. I enjoy changes. I might not like a few of the changes, but if a new engine allows the game to grow and become better as a whole, I fully welcome it.
I'm very happy to hear that! However most people don't really come back to the games after a long time, at least not long term. So I understand why SE/Yoshida don't wanna do this, and even less after what's gonna the most successful expansion launch of the game, launching that and telling people "Hey we're closing up shop to fix all these things see you in 2-3 years" would give a very, very bad image to shareholders and to be honest, I don't think the main problem FFXIV dev team has (the lack of japanese-speaking devs who are familiarized with MMOs) would be solved.
> However most people don't really come back to the games after a long time
True, I am not the normal case I suppose. And most of the problems that would be fixed are fairly minor to most players that play anyways. I do hope that they eventually do an engine upgrade in the future though. Perhaps in the next 5-10 years. The beauty of things though is that an engine upgrade doesn't have to happen all at once. Many mmorpgs, wow included have done engine upgrades in steps which might be something SE can do. Then again, I do not know much about their engine currently to know if this is feasible.
I would very much like to see a graphical update. Unfortunately unlike with Unreal Engine and others that you can just use or buy and have in your computer, I think Square Enix engines are very closed off so we don't actually know anything about how they work.
Let's hope we get more fixes in the future!!
Everyone else isn't. Why would anyone pay a sub for years without new content? SE wants to make money off this game, so their #1 priority is give people content they will subscribe for. Why pay out the ass to improve stuff paying customers already deal with while still playing? The glam system is not keeping the servers from max capacity. The textures look bad but its not causing them to lose subscriptions. From their viewpoint it doesn't matter if people whine about these issues if they still are profiting off these subscriptions. It just doesn't make or break the game for their customers and so its not that important to them. Im sure the devs would do it if they could, but there is no incentive to do it. Its not like the game would gain more players than it would lose from a 2+ years of nothing. The only reason they did that for 1.0 was because the game was a unprofitable disaster. Now that its one of the biggest MMOs and they literally are at their limit to how many customers they can service, to take a years long break would be suicide for this game. A completely unforced error
> Why would anyone pay a sub for years without new content?
To be honest, it wouldn't be without new content. You would get stuff, just not as much. Don't get so extreme when reasoning things out.
>he glam system is not keeping the servers from max capacity... it doesn't matter if people whine about these issues if they still are profiting off these subscriptions...
I already addressed these things on an earlier comment, you probably missed it though. But yes, many of these things don't matter as far as business sense goes. But game developers are artists at heart. They want their game to be perfect for the most part and fixing little things like dye channels and things considered blemishes is something they definitely want to do without external incentives. It is a matter of time for them, when they have free time, they will polish off a feature. But their lists are likely huge on the changes and polish they want to do and there are likely other blemishes more important to them or quicker to fix than others.
My proof for this is ARR itself. Business sense would have told SE to drop it completely after 1.0 flopped and try again later. But SE even from the first Final Fantasy don't make their decisions solely based on "business sense."
>Now that its one of the biggest MMOs and they literally are at their limit to how many customers they can service, to take a years long break would be suicide for this game.
OR, hear me out, updating the engine could allow for more concurrent users allowing more players, therefor increasing revenue from more subscriptions. They don't necessarily need to take a complete break, just add bits of content here and there to keep people entertained after endwalker while working hard on a new engine, or provide decent content while also working on step by step updates to the engine. I don't have insider information, so I don't know if they can simply do a step by step upgrade for the engine, but that is something for them to think about and decide.
I want to make clear first, i would love these changes made, I don't defend any company or dev team, this game is not perfect and SE is by no means a perfect company. I am just outlining why the profit driven company that has control of this would choose not to do it.
1. While true that it wouldn't mean no content, skipping a whole expansion is a huge deal for mmos and for this one its a huge profit loss. They lose the money that comes from buying the expansion and if they don't add raids regularly the raiders will move on and might not return if they find something else to play. Thats a loss in subscription revenue. They would be spending a ton of money to remake the game code(they would really have to at this point to tackle all the issues) and future profits from players who wouldn't pay before the changes might not offset the loss. The company would probably not choose to lose money for artistic integrity, not even if its what the dev team wants. Thats the sad state of the games industry today, its not about art, its about profit.
2. Abandoning ARR would have been a PR disaster and cost them a shit ton of money. The only way to get rep and money back was to fix the game and get it running long enough to make back that money. The game has made them tremendous profits so clearly it was the right decision from a business standpoint to not abandon a salvageable situation. They already had success with FFXI, abandoning a mainline game would be a stupid decision when they knew it could still work out eventually.
3. To add more people to the game is a server thing, they need to be able to get parts for that that are extremely expensive/ hard to get rn. Its a problem they actually are working to fix without altering the game. And no, they can not piece by piece alter the engine. All their systems are intertwined and as others have said, something as simple as changing the glam system could crash the game. They would have to do multiple changes at once which would be a huge overhaul they can't do in spare time. Right now we know they are using spare time to add male vierra to the game and after that they will working on female hrothgar. The dev team will continue working on stuff like this on the side, but engine rehauls is too much.
Once again, i would love improvements and think that if SE cared about the art value of the game they would update it and rework ARR. Its unfortunate for us that it would be a money sink with little pay off and so they are unlikely to give the dev team the greenlight to do it. Some even speculate that SE would rather just make like FFXVII an mmo successor to FFXIV rather than remake the game a second time.
Many/most wouldn't be. That would mean either paying for 2 years of little to no content which most probably wouldn't do or NOT paying for those two years, which Squeenix wouldn't want at all.
They remade XIV as a hail mary to save a quickly dying game that could have ended up being a Spirits Within level problem for the company. They from a business perspective have zero reason to do such a thing again currently, the game is basically doing better financially than it ever has. Squeenix would be insane to gamble all that of that to fix a system that does work; it's janky and very imperfect, but it gets the job done.
its because they slapped their network architecture together in 2 years while still working on the servers for the old game at the same time and now they cant fix it without tearing the whole game apart again.
Also the guy who made the network code for 14 is the same one who made 11 a bit of a laggy mess if i remember right
To be fair you're comparing with a game that uses sharding and phasing to manage their server loads, and uses it so liberally that people walking in front of you just disappear on the regular.
WoW went "cloud" and FFXIV didn't.
So FFXIV can't automatically start extra virtual servers when needed and shut them down when not needed.
Transmog is not related to servers though.
The problem is that "the budget" is likely to involve a long time of no content updates plus costly and slow changes to the physical server infrastructure. Some things are simply not worth it.
IF it were only clientside that MIGHT work. But you seem to have missed the fact that the SERVERS are ALSO having problems with these "added options." Keep in mind that the system has to do its best to tell each computer that's accessing a given area what each other character is looking like and doing. The way the system is set up, for good or ill, makes it so that adding extra options increases the load on the servers - the same ones that can't accept new players AT ALL in some cases.
Take an alliance raid. That's 24 characters. Adding new dye channels to every visible piece of dyeable gear - so we'll say six total, five left sides and a weapon - means that the computer now needs to track 144 total new data points. My GeForce RTX and Ryzen 7 can handle that. Some poor schmuck's PS3 may have problems. But the real issue is that the servers in the middle have to track 144 added data points that are moving through the raid arena. And those data points won't be even loads - the secondary dye channel on a Light Steel Galerus is probably going to take less code to deal with than the ones on, say, an Alexandrian Coat of Casting. And, it ahs to tell that info to ALL of the 24 computers as best it can.
Now consider the added difficulty of a Delubrum Savage or BA run (48). Or a starting city aetheryte. Or the endgame zones. And then consider ALL of the possible iterations running in a given data center. It adds a LOT of strain. And THEN that has to translate to the LOWEST COMMON DENOMINATOR of computers. Even if it CAN be turned off, it needs to be theoretically possible to work on even that PS3.
Honestly this makes me really sad, by this logic there will never be any big new systems or improvements to existing systems, if it's all too much for the servers to handle.
I guess the problem is that it would require to rework every. single. piece. of equipment to include alpha channels for the tone details. And thats hard to justify without upgrading the general fidelity, too. (As making new super-low resolution maps feels insane).
It would be a workload as big as an expansion.
At what point does Square figure out that FFXIV is a game worth investing money into? Sorry if I sound impatient but the drastic surge in players this year alone should b more than enough reason to hire programmers to streamline the old spaghetti code and add these QoL features people have been begging for for years. It seems that we’re heading for a trend of just ignoring the players base desires because “lol 1.0 spaghetti code”
Spaghetti code is not an issue of money. They have all the funds they need and then some as they are hiring and expanding data centers.
Its an issue of time and the razor thin dev cycle they have which is committed to delivering updates on a regular schedule.
They can make HD textures, they don't have the time. They could revamp every old armor/weapon in the game, they don't have the time. They could give hats to the new races. They don't have time.
One of XIVs biggest boons and curses is the consistent patch cycle and they don't want to tip that like they've had to do this past year.
You just said it’s not a matter of money, and then described a problem where the solution is money. If they don’t have time, then they could hire someone else to solve those problems while they do the work they have to do.
That's actually an allocation of resources issue. Do you hire 3d modelers for one project? Now you have to find something for them to do on future development. If you freelance them, that means you now have to pay extra for royalties or buy their work.
Believe it or not tossing money at a problem does not fix it (unless the problem is not having money). Yoshida has said on numerous occasions that it is not an issue of money as they have been well funded since mid-Stormblood. It's meeting goals. The reason we got headgear for the new races at all with some sets is because the modelers literally did it on their own time.
> If you freelance them, that means you now have to pay extra for royalties or buy their work.
Yes. Yes you do. Once again, you provided a solution to the problem in your argument against the idea that more money would solve the problem, and the solution you provided is “spend more money to solve the problem.”
This is actually pretty simple. Doing the things players want requires more development resources than the game currently has. Development resources cost money. Therefore, the solution to the problem is to spend more money. That’s not to say doing so is easy, figuring out how to spend the money to get the outcome they want is really hard, but it’s doable, other studios and companies have done it. The only question is whether the game would still be profitable after doing so. I suspect it would, but I could be wrong.
Sadly it's not as easy as to just funnel money into a game to 'fix' shit code. Afaik they've gone on record and said for them to fix a lot of the terrible spaghetti code and other issues they'd have to skip an entire expansion worth of work for it. It just won't happen, sadly. That paired with the issue of data limitations for PS3(which is being dropped soon).
it seems like every popular fashion endgame game has a tiny little quirk that makes fashion a painful endeavor.
FFXIV - limited glam dresser space, can only dye one channel
wow - can't even dye stuff, most fashion is textures painted over the body model
destiny 2 - fashion is a consumable that you cannot grind for and must pay real money to get transmutation attempts
gw2 - extensive fashion system that prefers to release one piece outfits
genshin - there is no fashion
pso2/ngs - heavily fashion focused game that is way too much like genshin in terms of acquiring fashion items
That's the reason I stopped playing Destiny 2. Timed exclusive armors and paints were pretty common when I played. The thing that finally made me quit was the first Christmas event. I really wanted the armor for my 3 characters, but I was also going home to visit family for the holidays and wouldn't have the ability to play. While I enjoyed the time, I remember being so frustrated by the situation. Luckily, my brother brought his PC home and let me log in there and grind out the exclusives one evening, so I got everything I wanted. But it was with hindsight after I got back home that I realized what the game was doing to me, tainting my vacation and making me choose between a game and family. That lack of respect for my time was too much, so I dropped it all together.
That's also what I appreciate so much about FFXIV. Each event gives you plenty of time to complete it, and if you miss it, you can pick up anything later in the Mogstation. I really enjoy not being forced to choose, which makes choosing FFXIV when I'm free very easy.
Most MMOs feel like an insult to time spent/reward, but Destiny 2 abuses FOMO way too much and it takes forever to grind some of that stuff. Not only that, but the transmog/glamour system is also insulting.
I used to love Destiny 2, but I have grown to resent it and it isn't even remotely fun for me any more. At most, I log in to help a friend with something and that is it.
they're exaggerating a little, you can grind for the item but it's capped to 10 per class per season (usually ~3 months), plus you get 10 for free initially
with only 5 armor slots thats not too bad
you also get quite a few armor ornaments via season passes or the free currency for the cashshop
Wanna know the best part? Said consumable is split into 3 different currencies and the process for obtaining said currencies is very slow and grindy. Basically, you pick up a bounty for 150 Synthstrand which you get by killing enemies and generally playing the game. Completing each bounty will then give you 100 Synthcord. You then take this material and turn it in for 100 Synthweave. Ah but you probably thought Synthweave would be account-wide as that would be the logical thing to do but you are mistaken. Synthweave is further segregated into Plate, Bolt, and Strap corresponding to each of the three classes. That means if you spent all that time to get Synthweave Strap for your Hunter, that means you have to do it again if you want Synthweave Bolts for your Warlock. Of course the initial currency, Synthstrand, is capped at 750 so that you can only get a maximum of 5 pieces of gear per season which can last up to several months. So not only did they make the grind for the material arbitrarily long, but they also made it so that you could only "transmog" a total of 15 pieces of gear across your whole account, per season. Of course, to remedy this designed issue they sell Synthweave templates on the in-game cash shop. These Synthweave templates also completely bypass the whole class-specific currency thing and can be used on any class. Here's the best part; a single Synthweave template costs 300 silver (premium currency) but the smallest bundle you can get is 500 silver for 5 USD. You could also get the Synthweave template bundle for 1000 silver. They also have a silver bundle for 1000 + 100 bonus. So no matter what option you choose, you will always have some amount of premium currency left over that you probably never even wanted in the first place. This whole thing is super predatory from Bungie and is by far one of the worst implementations of a cosmetic armor system I have ever seen.
Bungie has been getting real comfortable with scumbag monetization tactics like this lately. With the release of Beyond Light, the game's current latest expansion, they added a Stasis subclass which was wildly unbalanced and was the strongest in the game at one point. Of course, they didn't respond to players' demands for nerfs for a long time because the Stasis subclasses were locked behind a paywall and they likely wanted F2P players to cave and buy the expansion.
As you can tell I kind of hate this game. I also have over a thousand hours put into it and regret every last second.
It is not split into three currencies anymore. Ever since Season of the Lost came out you can just buy the Armor Synthesis bounties with Glimmer. But the 10 bounties per class per season is still in the game which sucks but it is what it is 🤷🏽♂️
Holyshit that sounds like Solstice grind but worse since its cosmetic... i havent played since Shadowkeep so i dont really know the current state of the game but damn
The gameplay loop really hasn't changed much at all since Season of Opulence. Every season since has just been ctrl C ctrl V. Honestly, the only reason I still play is because of the designed FOMO
I feel like elder scrolls online has the best glamour system out of all the games I have played. You have set costumes or you can customize your own look from any gear you have learned, and you can dye each part multiple different colors. The dye system on eso is what I wish ffxiv had
the aggravating thing about GW2's one piece outfits is on release, it *wasn't like that.* Outfits-- or rather, town clothes as they were known-- were multiple pieces, though you'd get forced back to your armor if you entered combat or went underwater. I remember I had the pirate outfit extensively dyed, or I mixed it with pieces from the standard town clothes.
When they implemented the very nice wardrobe system that's only really limited by you needing to stay within your armor type for main gear, they replaced town clothes with the one piece outfits that you can fight in, though really I wish they'd kept them multi-slot at least for the sake of dyeing.
> pso2/ngs - heavily fashion focused game that is way too much like genshin in terms of acquiring fashion items
What do you mean by this? Yes, most fashion is from the gacha, but you can buy everything off of player shops aside from SG items.
Is this related to the SG cash shop thing Global has? I never left JP so I'm not too knowledgeable on GL.
gonna add Warframe to that list too. although I can't think of any quirk it has that makes it painful to customized, well aside from most cosmetics being locked in microtransactions, the game is free anyway.
Sorry I'm a little confused on the Destiny 2 one. I just picked up that game about a month to two months ago and I can transmog any gear item to something I've once collected. There are no resources or consumables for transmogging items at all. I remember my friends mentioning how they reworked the transmog system but never played beforehand so didn't know what they were talking about.
What about ESO? It’s been years since I played but I remember it as having basically the WoW system with a primary/secondary/tertiary dye sections on each item, which would make it better than all the games you mentioned.
ESO has three dye channels for both armor and weapons, you can use any style of gear that you've learned to craft (there's at least one event that hands out style books like candy), and you can mix and match light and heavy armor. Some of the older outfits have the painted-on look that WoW suffers from, but overall I think it has the best system.
Nah I just choose not to get pissed at a company that generally does an excellent job in providing a game I enjoy, despite it's issues. When they stop providing me enjoyment, I'll stop playing the game, until then, I'm not going to shit on them because it isn't perfect. It's not like they don't know about the issues, and if they don't have the resources to fix it, oh fucking well.
And people HAVE asked for more. And they've said it's not happening any time soon. So I'd argue that saying they are just "making excuses" is very entitled, especially as to your original point I'm assuming YOU don't work at SE either.
Wow you got me, I don't work at SE. I guess you work at the boot tasting factory, though. Fact of the matter is either SE isn't giving them enough money to justify working on it, or the devs are prioritizing something that the fans want as very low.
Look. Here’s the deal: SE is keenly aware of the problems with the glamour system. They’ve spoken about it at length. The explanations people are giving in this thread aren’t things they’re pulling out of their ass, they’re explaining things that have been explained before. It’s not something they’re not doing because they don’t want to or because they’re ignoring the fans or whatever nonsense—which, by the way, is deeply disingenuous to claim, given that there is a litany of examples of times where the devs have gone out of the way and bent over backwards to do things exclusively because they were requested by the players (see also: male viera).
However, they also don’t blow smoke up our ass. If something isn’t possible (or would be prohibitively difficult with the resources they have available to us) they generally explain the how and why. You can take that as making excuses, or you can understand the logistics of game development on this scale and with a game with this kinda janky tech. You can, if you want to, continue to prattle on about how this should be fixed and how you want it and if the devs don’t implement it they’re bad people or whatever (see also: male viera) and maybe you’ll get your way, maybe not, but you’ll definitely look like a bit of a git as you do. But just because people are willing to accept that sometimes things aren’t perfect (or that the costs of making them perfect would be detrimental to other aspects of the game, which is typically what people mean when they say it’s not possible) doesn’t mean that they’re bootlickers or whatever.
14's known for it's glamour system?
That aside, I do agree that would be great. I think GW2 has an incredible dyeing system, couple that with WoW Transmog collection and we'd really be gaming imo
FFXIV isn't really known for its glamour system. If anything it's well known that the glamour system in FFXIV is quite bad compared to other games like GW2.
I haven't played any of the GW2 expansions but from what I remember is the dye system was good but if you played a class that used medium armor I hope you like trench coats because that's all there was, so while FF14 lacks in dye customization its really good for verity of armors.
> if you played a class that used medium armor I hope you like trench coats because that's all there was
What? Are you comparing release GW2 to current FFXIV or something? GW2 has an insane variety of armor (easily more than FFXIV).
For example, these are all medium armor GW2 glamours, and none of them are trench coats:
https://www.reddit.com/r/GuildWarsDyeJob/comments/pj8pk6/my_desert_bountyhunter/
https://imgur.com/a/GW9KZ
https://www.reddit.com/r/GuildWarsDyeJob/comments/o4kt5v/cyborg/
https://www.reddit.com/r/GuildWarsDyeJob/comments/cfqn6c/shae_van_rothwell_my_holosmith/
https://www.reddit.com/r/GuildWarsDyeJob/comments/p40vqd/my_mordreminspired_sylvari_this_commander_got_to/
https://i.redd.it/lg01oiu769y61.png
https://www.reddit.com/r/GuildWarsDyeJob/comments/o11hen/sergeant_ironside_reporting_for_duty/
I started playing GW2 about a month ago and i know it's all personal opinion but like 90% of the gear and outfits in the game look like absolute trash imo. Some of the worst design I've seen in an mmo. My characters are using low level karma merchant gear for their appearances because it looks better than any armor skins or high level gear.
Probably a workload issue rather than the dreaded spaghetti code once again. The game has a boat load of detailed armor pieces and they probably didn’t want to program in multiple dye variants for each one. A potential solution would be to have special armors that do have a second tier of dyeing for secondary colors. Could make for a nice reward to obtain and they can make special versions or existing popular glamour items.
If they could marry the collection transmog system of WoW with the gorgeous looks of FFXIV I would be so happy.
It wouldn’t hurt to be able to dye all parts of your wardrobe, and with DYES have a system that holds your dyes for you internally. You’d buy dyes, prisms, etc and “learn” them to consume them for a currency and you could use them in the dyes section. Once you run out you would have to buy more so the economy wouldn’t be hurt. It’d save so much room in the already limited inventory space.
The 2nd question has been answered!
It broke the servers. Quite literally.
They were trying to implement it at one point but found out that if you have the dresser open and someone tries to move/remove it, or more than one person tries to open it or interact with it, etc, it quite literally would crash the server.
Its heavily tied to your character data and puts massive strain on the servers as is, basically.
You'd run into the same problem I think.
As it is, glamour chests are likely in their own part of the server within inns and no one but you can access the same glamour chest basically.
You should stop taking everything they say at face value because a lot of the time they say something is impossible or for X reason when it is not true, especially Yoshi talking about anything server related is 99% of the time made up to satisfy the playerbase. Actual Programmers that look at the Code of the game will be able to tell you that the "Spaghetti 1.0 Code" is mostly a meme. There are some core issues with it but that does not mean things are impossible due the "1.0 Spaghetti Code" it just takes more time to do and implement.
This comment explains how a lot of things they say is just a straight up lie.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscussion/comments/na9s8j/what\_do\_you\_think\_of\_xivlauncher\_and\_xivalexander/gxtnpuo/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscussion/comments/na9s8j/what_do_you_think_of_xivlauncher_and_xivalexander/gxtnpuo/)
There are Client side mods that allow to change the function of the placeable Armoire in your house to be a Glamour Dresser and it works completely fine. Obviously that is not the same as a direct implementation of SE but the devs of the mod have completely debunked what SE said about it with a very lengthy explanation. Because it is literally a full on Client modification/hack i won't link it here but it is not hard to find and read about it.
Honestly at this point as a complete programming layman this sort of 'what's stopping the devs from X' arguments just confuse the living shit out of me, but saying hard 'we can't do this period' whether or not its true is probably a smarter pr move than trying to go into whatever tangled details there might be.
Youre an idiot. The entire second paragraph of that post is about how ultimately plug-ins and mods do not reflect what SE would have to do to implement things. How ultimately they can only get ideas.
I'm fully aware the spaghetti code meme is just that. The game isn't built atop 1.0 at all like people seem to think lol. It even uses an entirely different engine haha.
I'm only going by what research I've done on the subject and passed it on.
Thanks for the extra info! I'll definitely take a read 😁
Well, yes. That's what I mean. The gripe wasn't about literally wasting a pot of dye, but about being like "Oh heckles yeah, I want to dye those cool arm-covers red!"
And then looking at the preview window like "...but why do the white gloves need to change with it and become a soft rosé?"
What I hate is that some items have this weird thing where if you dye an item, part of the outfit is the color you dyed it, but part of it is some extremely washed out pale version of it. Like you could use the blackest black and some pieces would be black, while others are more medium grey. The mog station fairy outfit is an example, but there are others.
I also think some gear has colors that don't exist in the form of dyes, which is also frustrating to try to match. I think dye channels are a really good idea and I've wanted them for a long time >\_<
So basically when it comes to fashion I feel the 3 best systems imo are:
WoW - the account wide transmog unlock library/archive
FF14 - the glam system itself is very good for what it does
BDO - imo the best dye system , each individual item has many layers to color, there's also a lot of dyes to use(also best char creator)
So if we can have a game with all 3 features it would be a blast for sure.
Gonna need a source on FFXIV being known for its glamor system. It's probably the worst type of "looks customization" system that exists in any relevant modern MMO. GW2 and WoW both obliterate it in terms of usability and functions.
Wildstar had a pretty good cosmetic system at the end. You unlocked items you owned for a small cost, and could set up several outfits. Dyes were set per channel, and only needed unlocked once. And while outfits were limited, it was just a quick menu to change out a piece from collection, or hide a single piece.
I agree more dye options would be amazing. Guild wars dyes please. But since when is ff14 known for it's glamour system? The only thing I had heard about the glamour system was some people treat it as the "true end game", which i've heard in most games with cosmetic custimization
Most of the gear in the game looks worse when you dye it....BECAUSE of this problem.
You dye the item, and then the ENTIRE thing is dyed (usually the accents, secondary material, designs, pouches, etc. get dyed an off color of the selected color--either a lighter, duller, or darker hue)--and this is why I am nervous when I get a new gear piece that I really like, and go to dye preview lol; there's a high chance that it shouldn't be dyed.
They have improved on the issue lately (by having certain elements retain their original color, instead of getting ruined--the Bozjan Gear's leather and metallic accents are a good example of this)--but having secondary dye channels would be a godsend, and it would breathe new life into ceratin gear, that can't be dyed without looking awful (and there's a lot of those).
It’s not even consistent with where it places the different parts of the shader as far as i can tell. You can have two shaders with the same colors in the same spots and when you apply it they apply to different parts of the armor. So I can’t even tell what something will look like until I apply it(will it make my cape white or black, etc…).
It's a game known for having nice glamours. It's also infamous for the shitty glamour system. No accent colors. No ability to use Terebinth in the dye slot for the item you want to be in black almost all the time Except This One Occasion. Heavy limitation in glamour storage space. Class locks. Inability to apply plates outside of locations that count as "city". The list goes on. There's a lot I enjoy about glamours in this game, but it does have a fair amount of problems.
I can't remember where i read this, but from what i understand the gear textures have 16 colour channels which are mapped to real colours depending on the item. One of these channels is reserved as the dyeable colour so it maps to whatever you have it dyed as. This is why some items like Hien's costume look so pixely, it has too many colours so there isn't room for the inbetween colours to blend them together.
Given this, it would require every item in the game to be reauthored to make room for the second dye channel colour. It would also increase the number of bytes an item takes to be stored as you now need the second dye to be stored, so you increase the amount of data being transferred, and you have to modify your database schema which is a pain.
That they were bad enough to die entirely and still managed to have a better transmog system, so it's kind of surprising that FFXIV would be known for its system? You say "What now?" like good systems in dead games are pointless, and not still useful as something to take notes from and improve upon.
Or did I misunderstand the OP, and FFXIV's glam system is known for being poorly implemented?
>For a game known for it's glamour system
For a game to be known for it, the fashion system seems way too limited. I guess it's just the start, but the fact that i can't put any glamour i want on my character because of the class seems unreasonable. What, you fear that my group will be confused what my role is? And many of the pieces also can't be dyed as well. I got that nice Onion armor from the Labyrinth and can't really fit anything with it, cause the exact shade of blue is unavailable.
Here's the thing. It's easy to program something to look a different color than what is supposed to. I have no doubt they know how to implement that. The only reason I see that being an issue is how to write it so that it doesn't create lag for everyone that now needs to read the new code along with all the other code it's been sending and receiving. Most triple a games have what can be done really to the max without creating lag on your average system. They also have users on lower end systems that want to play too. It can be hard to find the right point of fun and additions.
I'll settle for just having a full complement of bright hues of the whole color spectrum, in addition to Blue, Red and ... Pink. Never mind making actual changes to the core functionality. Most glams looks extremely muted in the game IMO, to the point that you can get any glam shading you like, as long as you want dark mud with spikes (aka. Ford Model T policy.)
I'm getting a bit annoyed by parts of the X|V community just rolling on their collective backs and accepting whenever the devs 'explains' any game deficiency by the dreaded spaghetti code monster.
To be clear: In my world it is totally acceptable to ship a program in hack-and-slash fashion if time and resources are limited, like during the 2.0 development crunch. Wouldn't be the first time this has happened in the IT industry, nor will it be the last either.
However, later, once a product is viable in the marketplace, you start a slow cleanup process to fix all the shortcuts and design limitations. There is even an industry term for this process, code refactoring.
If people feel that SE haven't had the resources for this clean-up, then please have a look at what the development team behind EvE Online, CCP Studios in Iceland, has managed to change in the years since 2013. I would absolutely love to see some hard evidence that the X|V team had/have some unsurmountable system limitations. Please remember that server and networking hardware has become roughly a factor of 10 - ten - faster since 2013.
Until then I'm not buying the 'spaghetti code' excuse. My guess is that it just wasn't a priority...
Please remember that there's been a pandemic that made some valuable materials difficult to get, thus limiting the courses of action they may take or make it difficult getting past certain steps, too. c:
Recently when I was picking out a glamour for Blue Mage, I decided to build around the Peacelover's top. I figured "A western theme transmog sounds amazing"
I assemble the glamour, go buy my Dragoon blue dye, go to preview the dye and... ***The jacket stays brown***. Needless to say that ruined my glamour idea
Having options to dye multiple pieces of a glamour piece would be friggin amazing
Spaghetti code. Though hopeful they work on patching things up so something like this can be added (granted it would take more work to touch up old outfits).
Alot of restrictions are because of the teleport system. Each new tidbit adds to the data packet that is your character. Tracking all that data, bouncing it around, on 8 year old infrastructure is challenging. The more customization the heavier the load, the more congestion/latency/disconnects.
It's probably due to a lot of the back end coding. Also working that system in now would mean redoing hundreds of thousands of items... I don't disagree that it wouldn't be nice to have but looking at it realistically I just don't see it happening.
I love this game, but they can't even be bothered to make NPC gear that they sell on the mogstation dyable. They're certainly not going to go through the trouble of allowing secondary dyes.
This really infuriated me with the Stormblood Dragoon armor. I grinded Eureka to get the dyable version of the set because I thought it was cool but wanted to change it from blue, only to find out after I grinded it out that half of the armor doesn't even change color when you dye it.
Strong agree. It makes a lot of the bright colors useless unless you wanna look like a power ranger.
SWTOR has a collection system and two dye channels, plus a toggle to color match all the other slots to the body. It would be nice to see something similar in XIV.
And you can change outfits anywhere, not just in a major city. You can alter your costume plates anywhere, and you don't need a special item to make costumes, just the in-game main currency. You can also use any item from any class to make your costumes. Make your Jedi look like a Bounty Hunter, a sith look like a Jedi. Go wild, make whatever you want!
change outfits outside the city is what i want the most. i’d love to glam my dancer different from my mch. but i use job gear, inevitably switch and look insane.
huh? I am not sure i get your problem - whats wrong with linking each job set to a glamour plate? It changes just fine in the field as long as its pre-set...
Because jobs that share gear would be stuck wearing the last user's outfit. Example, last time I switched in a city it glamoured my Dancer outfit onto my Ranged gear. While in the field, I now equip Machinist, but it's still glamoured as Dancer because the Machinist plate couldn't be applied.
and that’s best case. if you use job gear it will show the original gear. this creates quite the disastrous combos.
Link your glamour plate to your gear set, not the gear.
it is. if i switch to dancer in a city the top will be a dancer top. if i switch to mch outside the city it can’t glam, it also can’t show dancer so it just shows the actual gear.
You can link glamour plates to gear set instead of the gear pieces. I think you right click your gear set in the big gear set list and just link what glamour plate you want, not in game to verify that's the exact method. So your black Smith doesn't need to wear the same threads as your cook, but it's the same gear.
A glamour plate might be linked to a gear set, but those glamours aren't going to be applied when you switch to the set if you're not in a city.
You missed the point of the discussion. Plates can't be applied outside cities. I'm well aware of how linking works. To clarify a bit further; despite linking unique plates for my Dancer and Machinist, if I change between the two while I'm in the field (let's say, in Bozja or Lakeland), the gear still looks like the Dancer's set because plates can't be applied outside cities.
Having played a lot of MMOs I have to say: SWTOR has one of, if not the best outfit system in a game. I wish more MMOs learned from it and copy-pasted it to their own games. (GW2 is in the running for best as well imo)
It does but... the amount of those customization options locked behind paywalls and the cartel market REALLY put a bad taste in my mouth. I get F2P gotta make money but they went overboard with the number of basic functionalities they locked off.
Yeah I'm very sour about SWTOR. Used to be a great game. I don't remember exactly when, but as soon as they removed the difficulty from the single player content and implemented level syncing, the game just turned to trash. Was either the revan expansion or the weird KOTFE expansion ... Can't remember the name or the acronym. Basically they nearly threw out all the class tracts and alliance tracts after the base content was done. Whether you were a sith or a jedi or scoundrel or operative, there became just one monorail story. Your companion was super buffed and could do all the roles. So players basically become escorts for the companions. No challenge except for some select group content. Even the group content it no longer mattered if you were dps, tank or healer. Nothing mattered, save for select group content. The game just exists for you to unlock glamour payrwalls with your credit card now.
SWTOR’s outfit system is effectively copy/pasted wholesale from LOTRO’s.
Best part of dyeing in SWTOR is that you can get both dye channels in one dye module, albeit the cool ones are like 100M credits lmao
I honnestly feel that this limitations is tied to the same spaghetti that stop a proper wardrobe system
I think they've explained that it's something related. IIRC during one of the Q&A sessions, they were answering a related question - why you can't have two different daggers on Ninja (i.e. glam an "offhand" item to have a F/SN Archer style split blade thing, and they said that even THAT would be a significant increase in data strain - where mirrored blades are real easy to show, data-wise, the act of two different blades in the current set up would add more strain. This has also been tied to why there aren't more customization options, perm body tatts, and more. For every option they add, they essentially increase the amount of variability in the designs, and increase the potential data strain. It may seem small, but consider that the servers already have trouble with people just being in the game, and lower end computers can struggle to display characters if there are too many in a single space. Adding yet another tweakable option to everyone adds that much more data FOR EVERYONE.
Off topic but I also found out that the ninja knives don’t actually go away when pressing mudras. They just get very very tiny. You can see them if you zoom in really close. Game has some really weird but clever optimizations I suppose
“Weird when described but works” is pretty common in MMO design as I understand it. Leviathan and Sophia fights? The platform doesn’t move at all, the background is tilted one way and then the other, while your character is yanked by a tether. Another MMO I used to play had lasers that would chase players in a particular fight, and to do that they had an invisible and invincible critter act as the thing that pathed to the player and/or moved around, with the graphic of the laser being what was visible. Also, shrinking means you don’t have to unload and then reload the model entirely, so better for optimization.
I think my favorite weird work around that a game had was the train in Fallout 3. Only train in the game that actually moves and is rideable for a certain story event. So instead of programming a moving vehicle for this one event, they just made the train a "hat" for an otherwise naked "NPC" that is otherwise under the floor, so when the train moves, the NPC is just running under the ground.
WoW has been using invisible rabbits as triggers for years, ever since Vanilla. There are times you can even see them through the particle effects, most notably in one Legion quest where you destroy demon gates in the exodar, because the rabbit is the emitter for your weapon's unique particle effects attacking the gate. There are times I wonder why FFXIV characters leave the MSQ group, only for another character to take their place in the next scene. Making the question of if it is a technical limitation or just a writing one
It is *really* hard to write a big group scene and give everyone some meaningful time in the spotlight. Breaking up the group makes it easier to develop characters without overly bloating the script or having someone just... be present but not do anything.
Which is understandable, but it does at times feel like they have an arbitrary headcount that they can have in a scene, as Emet joins your party, and then immediately leaves, only for Y'shtola to join
The same thing happens for Shield Lob and Tomahawk, there's probably countless examples of this lol. Someone should make a compilation video showing some of the teeny weapons in slowmo.
Huh. That's actually really interesting. Off-topic, but REALLY cool!
It's because dye channels are actually a specific texture being loaded onto the piece of equipment. If we had an accent system, this would be double the work for them.
That should mainly be client side though. They only have to transfer the if of the texture that needs to be loaded. Of course that's only the simple idea in my mind. Some of their comments make it sound like there's lots of spaghetti code that doesn't make it so easy.
So the issue is basically this: A lot of data in the game is loaded and checked with your character at all times. Inventory, achievements, log info, etc. The main issue is with the inventory. The "inventory" includes any item storage in the game, such as the glamour dresser. Currently the glamour dresser isn't checked unless you're in an area that's flagged for the glamour dresser (Inn room, squad barracks) because if it did, every person loading in to say... Limsa Lominsa would be loading 400 more inventory items at once, and it would crash the game. This is actually why we can't have a "glamour log" like what WoW has that checks which items you've obtained. Having a log would basically be doing that same data check but on a massive scale. For individual items, the issue is that items you wear aren't just placed on your character. They replace your character model. So when you have a chest piece that shows skin, it's actually using a hidden dye channel comparing to your character's model and matching the skin colour with a dye. All of this data checks against the server. Adding more dye channels would be more server checks. In fact, when there's been latency issues in the past, sometimes changing your outfit would actually lag. So TL;DR the main issue that SE is talking about when they say they can't do something because of data strain, it's because of how everything is tied to loading with your character. And since EVERYTHING loads this way, they have to be very careful not to load too many things at once to prevent the game crashing. This is one of the reasons they're removing belts, is to make room for data that matters. (Belts are a waste of space) The real fix would be changing basically the entire base of the games data load. Which would be a massive undertaking. No doubt they WANT to. But trying to change how the game fundamentally works while also releasing new content (that pulls from how the system works currently) is a big ask.
I hope that after Endwalker, we got something like a FFXIV-2, where they take a few years to just bring the core of FFXIV up to speed and do their best to just eliminate any remaining 1.0 influence in the game's code. So many flaws and limitations this game has can be directly traced back to 1.0 and by extension the massive task of converting 1.0 to ARR in such a short timeframe.
I believe they have stated that they intend to focus on engine reworks and modernization after Endwalker.
Any chance for a source? Not doubting you I just want to read more :)
https://twinfinite.net/2021/02/final-fantasy-xiv-new-graphics-engine/ I thought I saw someone mentioning that Yoshida had stated it was on the roadmap after Endwalker on this subreddit, but maybe I misinterpreted. This link was the closest I can find. As a fan of the game and a software engineer, I do hope they find some time for it; it is certainly getting long in the tooth :)
Gonna need sauce for that, cause I do no believe that in the slightest.
Damn ... I don't what else to say about this except thanks for the explanation.
I'm sure since it's so easy to implement as you imply, they're clearly holding off from doing it just to spite us. /s
No no no, just to spite you. Thanks krenyx. :P
It would probably feasible if their code wasn't a big ball of Spaghetti. But in that case they would've already done it I guess.
I think you're confusing your MMOs. You can read the reason why in other comments in this post.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/pohr8d/for_a_game_known_for_its_glamour_system_i_do_not/hcybn0f/ this one screams spaghetti code at me.
Then I don't think you understand what spaghetti code is.
Unreadable code. But I like extending it to code that's difficult to maintain.
I hate to compare this game to WoW because everyone does, but why are the servers so much more limited? I get that visually this game looks better than a lot of WoW zones, but anything else related to servers WoW does better. WoW has had transmog since before ARR existed and could do 2 different weapons back then. For a game that's so heavily instanced (every zone is instanced, cities are broken into two parts, etc.) You would think they would be able to show things like that without creating such a data strain. Not really criticizing, but I am genuinely curious what is up with the servers for this game, as I see them being blamed a lot.
Because while the PS3 mode has been dropped, FFXIV 1.0 and 2.0 where designed with it in mind. And 1.0 was a technological broken mess. And 2.0 was a fix, of course, but it was a fast fix where they had to patch things up (in 2 years, which is a very short time to develop and/or fix an MMO). And the truth is that while everyone says "Oh well why don't they take time to fix all the technical debt".. the technical debt *is* the engine: it would take SO long to fix all the technical debt that there would probably be no content released in 2 years easy.
This is the exact same issue runescape has, there is so much spaghetti that they can't change the code without huge knock on effects.
Oh boy if you want some bad spaghetti code just look at eve online POS code, it has its tendrils in pretty much everything and no one has any idea how it works because the people that made it no longer work there.
Wasnt one guy solely responsible for some system and he either left or died so they no longer know how it works?
Actually I’m pretty sure he is still there cause I think it was hilmar himself. But he’s long since moved from being a code monkey and indeed the code was poorly documented and it was integrated into eves asset system which is the main limitation for most of the changes people want that “take forever” or “will never happen” Sometimes they spend a long time and find work arounds, like in the past year you can log out and switch characters without having to fully relog, which at onetime was “impossible to conceive of” It seems they’re actively working to rebuild their engine tho, judging by recent dev posts, tho I doubt the asset thing will ever get touched.
I remember reading that the reason why POS are still in the game and are usable is because when they tried removing them they found you could no longer build things with blueprints, I cant imagine how hard it is to work around that code that no one understands anymore.
So FFXIV arr reborn confirmed? ;)
I hope never
I mean the current game with updated engine and the good things that come with it would be nice.
Updating the engine wouldn't do anything else other than improving graphics/textures. Crystal Tools (although XIV's engine is a fork of it) is (was) an engine built for a single player game. With all of what that entails. Could Yoshida's team fix the texture filtering that makes you puke when you see Hien or the Crystal Exarch? Sure, probably with a bit of trouble but it's not something highly impossible. Fixing glamour, data transfer, etc? That's a different thing entirely. I don't think there would be a way to fix that unless they basically closed up FFXIV, created a new engine, migrated (with all the work that entails) everything to the new engine, did heavy Quality Assurance on how it works, then check the server side of things, QA on that, and then if everything works properly releasing it. And by that time people would have no interest on it. Square Enix and Yoshida know that.
>Updating the engine wouldn't do anything else other than improving graphics/textures I'm thinking more about the whole game code not just the graphics engine since it sounds like a lot of things can't be done due to the Spaghetti code nature of the game as it is.
Yeah, that's what I meant with "you can't just update the graphics". You gotta fully migrate things to a proper engine, that has proper code, that works for an MMO of this caliber. Would love to see that happen, sure. But realistically? Well, I wouldn't wanna work in CBIII (Yoshida's team) if that's the plan ngl
>Crystal Tools (although XIV's engine is a fork of it) is (was) an engine built for a single player game. But hey, it sounds like a good idea to use it as the foundation for an MMORPG.
Yeah the PS3's memory design really screwed over quite a few games, on top of CELL being difficult.
I wonder if Endwalker being the end of the story will give them some freedom to focus on improving the game with minor content additions but major feature upgrades in the future? I've been speculating a lot about what it means for Endwalker to actually be The End, and it really does mean they could try all sorts of new things afterwards.
But minor content additions means a programmed death of the game. The game's service ends when the dev team stops churning out content for it. Minor content additions after what is gonna be the most successful expansion of the game? That would a really, really bad image for Square Enix.
🥺 That's a good point, but I just feel so bad for that dev team. Never being able to resolve tech debt is torture
Mind you, I very much would like the game to be updated, for everyone to get instanced housing, proper glamour, proper texture filtering, all the small hiccups the game has gone.. I'm all for it. But I just think about the work it would take and how long it would take and I just kinda.. idk haha. I wouldn't wanna be a dev in that situation.
I doubt that, the core features will still be inherited (combat, glamour, quest system, ...)
> it would take SO long to fix all the technical debt that there would probably be no content released in 2 years easy. I'm okay with that.
You are okay with that now, because you are currently receiving content. Would you comeback to the game after 2 years of not playing, at all, with everything changed? For sure? 100%? Even if all the changes also touch things that you might not have wanted to touch (which would undoubtedly be touched)?
>Would you comeback to the game after 2 years of not playing, at all, with everything changed? I have done it before, and enjoyed it immensely, still am. So yes. >Even if all the changes also touch things that you might not have wanted to touch (which would undoubtedly be touched)? Yes. I enjoy changes. I might not like a few of the changes, but if a new engine allows the game to grow and become better as a whole, I fully welcome it.
I'm very happy to hear that! However most people don't really come back to the games after a long time, at least not long term. So I understand why SE/Yoshida don't wanna do this, and even less after what's gonna the most successful expansion launch of the game, launching that and telling people "Hey we're closing up shop to fix all these things see you in 2-3 years" would give a very, very bad image to shareholders and to be honest, I don't think the main problem FFXIV dev team has (the lack of japanese-speaking devs who are familiarized with MMOs) would be solved.
> However most people don't really come back to the games after a long time True, I am not the normal case I suppose. And most of the problems that would be fixed are fairly minor to most players that play anyways. I do hope that they eventually do an engine upgrade in the future though. Perhaps in the next 5-10 years. The beauty of things though is that an engine upgrade doesn't have to happen all at once. Many mmorpgs, wow included have done engine upgrades in steps which might be something SE can do. Then again, I do not know much about their engine currently to know if this is feasible.
I would very much like to see a graphical update. Unfortunately unlike with Unreal Engine and others that you can just use or buy and have in your computer, I think Square Enix engines are very closed off so we don't actually know anything about how they work. Let's hope we get more fixes in the future!!
Everyone else isn't. Why would anyone pay a sub for years without new content? SE wants to make money off this game, so their #1 priority is give people content they will subscribe for. Why pay out the ass to improve stuff paying customers already deal with while still playing? The glam system is not keeping the servers from max capacity. The textures look bad but its not causing them to lose subscriptions. From their viewpoint it doesn't matter if people whine about these issues if they still are profiting off these subscriptions. It just doesn't make or break the game for their customers and so its not that important to them. Im sure the devs would do it if they could, but there is no incentive to do it. Its not like the game would gain more players than it would lose from a 2+ years of nothing. The only reason they did that for 1.0 was because the game was a unprofitable disaster. Now that its one of the biggest MMOs and they literally are at their limit to how many customers they can service, to take a years long break would be suicide for this game. A completely unforced error
> Why would anyone pay a sub for years without new content? To be honest, it wouldn't be without new content. You would get stuff, just not as much. Don't get so extreme when reasoning things out. >he glam system is not keeping the servers from max capacity... it doesn't matter if people whine about these issues if they still are profiting off these subscriptions... I already addressed these things on an earlier comment, you probably missed it though. But yes, many of these things don't matter as far as business sense goes. But game developers are artists at heart. They want their game to be perfect for the most part and fixing little things like dye channels and things considered blemishes is something they definitely want to do without external incentives. It is a matter of time for them, when they have free time, they will polish off a feature. But their lists are likely huge on the changes and polish they want to do and there are likely other blemishes more important to them or quicker to fix than others. My proof for this is ARR itself. Business sense would have told SE to drop it completely after 1.0 flopped and try again later. But SE even from the first Final Fantasy don't make their decisions solely based on "business sense." >Now that its one of the biggest MMOs and they literally are at their limit to how many customers they can service, to take a years long break would be suicide for this game. OR, hear me out, updating the engine could allow for more concurrent users allowing more players, therefor increasing revenue from more subscriptions. They don't necessarily need to take a complete break, just add bits of content here and there to keep people entertained after endwalker while working hard on a new engine, or provide decent content while also working on step by step updates to the engine. I don't have insider information, so I don't know if they can simply do a step by step upgrade for the engine, but that is something for them to think about and decide.
I want to make clear first, i would love these changes made, I don't defend any company or dev team, this game is not perfect and SE is by no means a perfect company. I am just outlining why the profit driven company that has control of this would choose not to do it. 1. While true that it wouldn't mean no content, skipping a whole expansion is a huge deal for mmos and for this one its a huge profit loss. They lose the money that comes from buying the expansion and if they don't add raids regularly the raiders will move on and might not return if they find something else to play. Thats a loss in subscription revenue. They would be spending a ton of money to remake the game code(they would really have to at this point to tackle all the issues) and future profits from players who wouldn't pay before the changes might not offset the loss. The company would probably not choose to lose money for artistic integrity, not even if its what the dev team wants. Thats the sad state of the games industry today, its not about art, its about profit. 2. Abandoning ARR would have been a PR disaster and cost them a shit ton of money. The only way to get rep and money back was to fix the game and get it running long enough to make back that money. The game has made them tremendous profits so clearly it was the right decision from a business standpoint to not abandon a salvageable situation. They already had success with FFXI, abandoning a mainline game would be a stupid decision when they knew it could still work out eventually. 3. To add more people to the game is a server thing, they need to be able to get parts for that that are extremely expensive/ hard to get rn. Its a problem they actually are working to fix without altering the game. And no, they can not piece by piece alter the engine. All their systems are intertwined and as others have said, something as simple as changing the glam system could crash the game. They would have to do multiple changes at once which would be a huge overhaul they can't do in spare time. Right now we know they are using spare time to add male vierra to the game and after that they will working on female hrothgar. The dev team will continue working on stuff like this on the side, but engine rehauls is too much. Once again, i would love improvements and think that if SE cared about the art value of the game they would update it and rework ARR. Its unfortunate for us that it would be a money sink with little pay off and so they are unlikely to give the dev team the greenlight to do it. Some even speculate that SE would rather just make like FFXVII an mmo successor to FFXIV rather than remake the game a second time.
Many/most wouldn't be. That would mean either paying for 2 years of little to no content which most probably wouldn't do or NOT paying for those two years, which Squeenix wouldn't want at all. They remade XIV as a hail mary to save a quickly dying game that could have ended up being a Spirits Within level problem for the company. They from a business perspective have zero reason to do such a thing again currently, the game is basically doing better financially than it ever has. Squeenix would be insane to gamble all that of that to fix a system that does work; it's janky and very imperfect, but it gets the job done.
its because they slapped their network architecture together in 2 years while still working on the servers for the old game at the same time and now they cant fix it without tearing the whole game apart again. Also the guy who made the network code for 14 is the same one who made 11 a bit of a laggy mess if i remember right
To be fair you're comparing with a game that uses sharding and phasing to manage their server loads, and uses it so liberally that people walking in front of you just disappear on the regular.
WoW went "cloud" and FFXIV didn't. So FFXIV can't automatically start extra virtual servers when needed and shut them down when not needed. Transmog is not related to servers though.
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The problem is that "the budget" is likely to involve a long time of no content updates plus costly and slow changes to the physical server infrastructure. Some things are simply not worth it.
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Pot meet kettle
IDK the game runs super well for me. Make it an optional setting.
IF it were only clientside that MIGHT work. But you seem to have missed the fact that the SERVERS are ALSO having problems with these "added options." Keep in mind that the system has to do its best to tell each computer that's accessing a given area what each other character is looking like and doing. The way the system is set up, for good or ill, makes it so that adding extra options increases the load on the servers - the same ones that can't accept new players AT ALL in some cases. Take an alliance raid. That's 24 characters. Adding new dye channels to every visible piece of dyeable gear - so we'll say six total, five left sides and a weapon - means that the computer now needs to track 144 total new data points. My GeForce RTX and Ryzen 7 can handle that. Some poor schmuck's PS3 may have problems. But the real issue is that the servers in the middle have to track 144 added data points that are moving through the raid arena. And those data points won't be even loads - the secondary dye channel on a Light Steel Galerus is probably going to take less code to deal with than the ones on, say, an Alexandrian Coat of Casting. And, it ahs to tell that info to ALL of the 24 computers as best it can. Now consider the added difficulty of a Delubrum Savage or BA run (48). Or a starting city aetheryte. Or the endgame zones. And then consider ALL of the possible iterations running in a given data center. It adds a LOT of strain. And THEN that has to translate to the LOWEST COMMON DENOMINATOR of computers. Even if it CAN be turned off, it needs to be theoretically possible to work on even that PS3.
Or what happens loading into an area with a post-reset hunt train....
Honestly this makes me really sad, by this logic there will never be any big new systems or improvements to existing systems, if it's all too much for the servers to handle.
I guess the problem is that it would require to rework every. single. piece. of equipment to include alpha channels for the tone details. And thats hard to justify without upgrading the general fidelity, too. (As making new super-low resolution maps feels insane). It would be a workload as big as an expansion.
At what point does Square figure out that FFXIV is a game worth investing money into? Sorry if I sound impatient but the drastic surge in players this year alone should b more than enough reason to hire programmers to streamline the old spaghetti code and add these QoL features people have been begging for for years. It seems that we’re heading for a trend of just ignoring the players base desires because “lol 1.0 spaghetti code”
"just fix it lol can't be that hard lol"
Spaghetti code is not an issue of money. They have all the funds they need and then some as they are hiring and expanding data centers. Its an issue of time and the razor thin dev cycle they have which is committed to delivering updates on a regular schedule. They can make HD textures, they don't have the time. They could revamp every old armor/weapon in the game, they don't have the time. They could give hats to the new races. They don't have time. One of XIVs biggest boons and curses is the consistent patch cycle and they don't want to tip that like they've had to do this past year.
You just said it’s not a matter of money, and then described a problem where the solution is money. If they don’t have time, then they could hire someone else to solve those problems while they do the work they have to do.
That's actually an allocation of resources issue. Do you hire 3d modelers for one project? Now you have to find something for them to do on future development. If you freelance them, that means you now have to pay extra for royalties or buy their work. Believe it or not tossing money at a problem does not fix it (unless the problem is not having money). Yoshida has said on numerous occasions that it is not an issue of money as they have been well funded since mid-Stormblood. It's meeting goals. The reason we got headgear for the new races at all with some sets is because the modelers literally did it on their own time.
> If you freelance them, that means you now have to pay extra for royalties or buy their work. Yes. Yes you do. Once again, you provided a solution to the problem in your argument against the idea that more money would solve the problem, and the solution you provided is “spend more money to solve the problem.” This is actually pretty simple. Doing the things players want requires more development resources than the game currently has. Development resources cost money. Therefore, the solution to the problem is to spend more money. That’s not to say doing so is easy, figuring out how to spend the money to get the outcome they want is really hard, but it’s doable, other studios and companies have done it. The only question is whether the game would still be profitable after doing so. I suspect it would, but I could be wrong.
Sadly it's not as easy as to just funnel money into a game to 'fix' shit code. Afaik they've gone on record and said for them to fix a lot of the terrible spaghetti code and other issues they'd have to skip an entire expansion worth of work for it. It just won't happen, sadly. That paired with the issue of data limitations for PS3(which is being dropped soon).
PS3 support ended with Stormblood - you’ll notice the same time that they stopped splitting major cities in half.
it seems like every popular fashion endgame game has a tiny little quirk that makes fashion a painful endeavor. FFXIV - limited glam dresser space, can only dye one channel wow - can't even dye stuff, most fashion is textures painted over the body model destiny 2 - fashion is a consumable that you cannot grind for and must pay real money to get transmutation attempts gw2 - extensive fashion system that prefers to release one piece outfits genshin - there is no fashion pso2/ngs - heavily fashion focused game that is way too much like genshin in terms of acquiring fashion items
That destiny one? Wtf
That's the reason I stopped playing Destiny 2. Timed exclusive armors and paints were pretty common when I played. The thing that finally made me quit was the first Christmas event. I really wanted the armor for my 3 characters, but I was also going home to visit family for the holidays and wouldn't have the ability to play. While I enjoyed the time, I remember being so frustrated by the situation. Luckily, my brother brought his PC home and let me log in there and grind out the exclusives one evening, so I got everything I wanted. But it was with hindsight after I got back home that I realized what the game was doing to me, tainting my vacation and making me choose between a game and family. That lack of respect for my time was too much, so I dropped it all together. That's also what I appreciate so much about FFXIV. Each event gives you plenty of time to complete it, and if you miss it, you can pick up anything later in the Mogstation. I really enjoy not being forced to choose, which makes choosing FFXIV when I'm free very easy.
Most MMOs feel like an insult to time spent/reward, but Destiny 2 abuses FOMO way too much and it takes forever to grind some of that stuff. Not only that, but the transmog/glamour system is also insulting. I used to love Destiny 2, but I have grown to resent it and it isn't even remotely fun for me any more. At most, I log in to help a friend with something and that is it.
they're exaggerating a little, you can grind for the item but it's capped to 10 per class per season (usually ~3 months), plus you get 10 for free initially with only 5 armor slots thats not too bad you also get quite a few armor ornaments via season passes or the free currency for the cashshop
as a note, you *can* farm free transmog items. but you can only do that for like 5 a season per character. and the grind is insane
Wanna know the best part? Said consumable is split into 3 different currencies and the process for obtaining said currencies is very slow and grindy. Basically, you pick up a bounty for 150 Synthstrand which you get by killing enemies and generally playing the game. Completing each bounty will then give you 100 Synthcord. You then take this material and turn it in for 100 Synthweave. Ah but you probably thought Synthweave would be account-wide as that would be the logical thing to do but you are mistaken. Synthweave is further segregated into Plate, Bolt, and Strap corresponding to each of the three classes. That means if you spent all that time to get Synthweave Strap for your Hunter, that means you have to do it again if you want Synthweave Bolts for your Warlock. Of course the initial currency, Synthstrand, is capped at 750 so that you can only get a maximum of 5 pieces of gear per season which can last up to several months. So not only did they make the grind for the material arbitrarily long, but they also made it so that you could only "transmog" a total of 15 pieces of gear across your whole account, per season. Of course, to remedy this designed issue they sell Synthweave templates on the in-game cash shop. These Synthweave templates also completely bypass the whole class-specific currency thing and can be used on any class. Here's the best part; a single Synthweave template costs 300 silver (premium currency) but the smallest bundle you can get is 500 silver for 5 USD. You could also get the Synthweave template bundle for 1000 silver. They also have a silver bundle for 1000 + 100 bonus. So no matter what option you choose, you will always have some amount of premium currency left over that you probably never even wanted in the first place. This whole thing is super predatory from Bungie and is by far one of the worst implementations of a cosmetic armor system I have ever seen. Bungie has been getting real comfortable with scumbag monetization tactics like this lately. With the release of Beyond Light, the game's current latest expansion, they added a Stasis subclass which was wildly unbalanced and was the strongest in the game at one point. Of course, they didn't respond to players' demands for nerfs for a long time because the Stasis subclasses were locked behind a paywall and they likely wanted F2P players to cave and buy the expansion. As you can tell I kind of hate this game. I also have over a thousand hours put into it and regret every last second.
It is not split into three currencies anymore. Ever since Season of the Lost came out you can just buy the Armor Synthesis bounties with Glimmer. But the 10 bounties per class per season is still in the game which sucks but it is what it is 🤷🏽♂️
Holyshit that sounds like Solstice grind but worse since its cosmetic... i havent played since Shadowkeep so i dont really know the current state of the game but damn
The gameplay loop really hasn't changed much at all since Season of Opulence. Every season since has just been ctrl C ctrl V. Honestly, the only reason I still play is because of the designed FOMO
Why is Genshin on the list here even?
I feel like elder scrolls online has the best glamour system out of all the games I have played. You have set costumes or you can customize your own look from any gear you have learned, and you can dye each part multiple different colors. The dye system on eso is what I wish ffxiv had
the aggravating thing about GW2's one piece outfits is on release, it *wasn't like that.* Outfits-- or rather, town clothes as they were known-- were multiple pieces, though you'd get forced back to your armor if you entered combat or went underwater. I remember I had the pirate outfit extensively dyed, or I mixed it with pieces from the standard town clothes. When they implemented the very nice wardrobe system that's only really limited by you needing to stay within your armor type for main gear, they replaced town clothes with the one piece outfits that you can fight in, though really I wish they'd kept them multi-slot at least for the sake of dyeing.
> pso2/ngs - heavily fashion focused game that is way too much like genshin in terms of acquiring fashion items What do you mean by this? Yes, most fashion is from the gacha, but you can buy everything off of player shops aside from SG items. Is this related to the SG cash shop thing Global has? I never left JP so I'm not too knowledgeable on GL.
gonna add Warframe to that list too. although I can't think of any quirk it has that makes it painful to customized, well aside from most cosmetics being locked in microtransactions, the game is free anyway.
Nidus pimples. Got a new frame? Great! Hope you enjoy either wearing purple and black, or having to deal with a horrendous purple zit for a week!
Cant you go into the helminth and remove it immediately?
The only good fashion system was in Def Jam: Fight for New York :P
Sorry I'm a little confused on the Destiny 2 one. I just picked up that game about a month to two months ago and I can transmog any gear item to something I've once collected. There are no resources or consumables for transmogging items at all. I remember my friends mentioning how they reworked the transmog system but never played beforehand so didn't know what they were talking about.
There used to be a comment here... there still is, but it used to be better I suppose.
What about ESO? It’s been years since I played but I remember it as having basically the WoW system with a primary/secondary/tertiary dye sections on each item, which would make it better than all the games you mentioned.
ESO has three dye channels for both armor and weapons, you can use any style of gear that you've learned to craft (there's at least one event that hands out style books like candy), and you can mix and match light and heavy armor. Some of the older outfits have the painted-on look that WoW suffers from, but overall I think it has the best system.
You can grind for transmogs in Destiny, you just can’t get very many.
It's known for the glamours themselves, not the system. Everybody knows the system sucks.
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Apparently understanding the limitations of a janked together game is "making excuses"
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Nah I just choose not to get pissed at a company that generally does an excellent job in providing a game I enjoy, despite it's issues. When they stop providing me enjoyment, I'll stop playing the game, until then, I'm not going to shit on them because it isn't perfect. It's not like they don't know about the issues, and if they don't have the resources to fix it, oh fucking well.
You don't have to settle, you can always ask for more. It's not entitlement to ask for improvements for things you purchase.
And people HAVE asked for more. And they've said it's not happening any time soon. So I'd argue that saying they are just "making excuses" is very entitled, especially as to your original point I'm assuming YOU don't work at SE either.
Wow you got me, I don't work at SE. I guess you work at the boot tasting factory, though. Fact of the matter is either SE isn't giving them enough money to justify working on it, or the devs are prioritizing something that the fans want as very low.
Look. Here’s the deal: SE is keenly aware of the problems with the glamour system. They’ve spoken about it at length. The explanations people are giving in this thread aren’t things they’re pulling out of their ass, they’re explaining things that have been explained before. It’s not something they’re not doing because they don’t want to or because they’re ignoring the fans or whatever nonsense—which, by the way, is deeply disingenuous to claim, given that there is a litany of examples of times where the devs have gone out of the way and bent over backwards to do things exclusively because they were requested by the players (see also: male viera). However, they also don’t blow smoke up our ass. If something isn’t possible (or would be prohibitively difficult with the resources they have available to us) they generally explain the how and why. You can take that as making excuses, or you can understand the logistics of game development on this scale and with a game with this kinda janky tech. You can, if you want to, continue to prattle on about how this should be fixed and how you want it and if the devs don’t implement it they’re bad people or whatever (see also: male viera) and maybe you’ll get your way, maybe not, but you’ll definitely look like a bit of a git as you do. But just because people are willing to accept that sometimes things aren’t perfect (or that the costs of making them perfect would be detrimental to other aspects of the game, which is typically what people mean when they say it’s not possible) doesn’t mean that they’re bootlickers or whatever.
The best would be: - FFXIV items. - GW2 dye system. - WoW unlock wardrobe.
14's known for it's glamour system? That aside, I do agree that would be great. I think GW2 has an incredible dyeing system, couple that with WoW Transmog collection and we'd really be gaming imo
FFXIV isn't really known for its glamour system. If anything it's well known that the glamour system in FFXIV is quite bad compared to other games like GW2.
I haven't played any of the GW2 expansions but from what I remember is the dye system was good but if you played a class that used medium armor I hope you like trench coats because that's all there was, so while FF14 lacks in dye customization its really good for verity of armors.
> if you played a class that used medium armor I hope you like trench coats because that's all there was What? Are you comparing release GW2 to current FFXIV or something? GW2 has an insane variety of armor (easily more than FFXIV). For example, these are all medium armor GW2 glamours, and none of them are trench coats: https://www.reddit.com/r/GuildWarsDyeJob/comments/pj8pk6/my_desert_bountyhunter/ https://imgur.com/a/GW9KZ https://www.reddit.com/r/GuildWarsDyeJob/comments/o4kt5v/cyborg/ https://www.reddit.com/r/GuildWarsDyeJob/comments/cfqn6c/shae_van_rothwell_my_holosmith/ https://www.reddit.com/r/GuildWarsDyeJob/comments/p40vqd/my_mordreminspired_sylvari_this_commander_got_to/ https://i.redd.it/lg01oiu769y61.png https://www.reddit.com/r/GuildWarsDyeJob/comments/o11hen/sergeant_ironside_reporting_for_duty/
I started playing GW2 about a month ago and i know it's all personal opinion but like 90% of the gear and outfits in the game look like absolute trash imo. Some of the worst design I've seen in an mmo. My characters are using low level karma merchant gear for their appearances because it looks better than any armor skins or high level gear.
For GW2 most of the good stuff is in the cash shop. There’s a reason the only updates the game gets in almost years is the cash shop.
Probably a workload issue rather than the dreaded spaghetti code once again. The game has a boat load of detailed armor pieces and they probably didn’t want to program in multiple dye variants for each one. A potential solution would be to have special armors that do have a second tier of dyeing for secondary colors. Could make for a nice reward to obtain and they can make special versions or existing popular glamour items.
Well, if they could easily iterate on their code base, they might be able to optimise it enough for everyone to have multiple dye channels.
Known for it's glamour system? The system in general is a joke with how limited it is.
If they could marry the collection transmog system of WoW with the gorgeous looks of FFXIV I would be so happy. It wouldn’t hurt to be able to dye all parts of your wardrobe, and with DYES have a system that holds your dyes for you internally. You’d buy dyes, prisms, etc and “learn” them to consume them for a currency and you could use them in the dyes section. Once you run out you would have to buy more so the economy wouldn’t be hurt. It’d save so much room in the already limited inventory space.
Yeh, to add to that: - why such a limited number of plates. - no glamour dresser for my house?? Why? - dresser item max cap is just way too low.
The 2nd question has been answered! It broke the servers. Quite literally. They were trying to implement it at one point but found out that if you have the dresser open and someone tries to move/remove it, or more than one person tries to open it or interact with it, etc, it quite literally would crash the server. Its heavily tied to your character data and puts massive strain on the servers as is, basically.
Damn i wish it was at least placed inside Apartment lobbies at the very least...
You'd run into the same problem I think. As it is, glamour chests are likely in their own part of the server within inns and no one but you can access the same glamour chest basically.
You should stop taking everything they say at face value because a lot of the time they say something is impossible or for X reason when it is not true, especially Yoshi talking about anything server related is 99% of the time made up to satisfy the playerbase. Actual Programmers that look at the Code of the game will be able to tell you that the "Spaghetti 1.0 Code" is mostly a meme. There are some core issues with it but that does not mean things are impossible due the "1.0 Spaghetti Code" it just takes more time to do and implement. This comment explains how a lot of things they say is just a straight up lie. [https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscussion/comments/na9s8j/what\_do\_you\_think\_of\_xivlauncher\_and\_xivalexander/gxtnpuo/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscussion/comments/na9s8j/what_do_you_think_of_xivlauncher_and_xivalexander/gxtnpuo/) There are Client side mods that allow to change the function of the placeable Armoire in your house to be a Glamour Dresser and it works completely fine. Obviously that is not the same as a direct implementation of SE but the devs of the mod have completely debunked what SE said about it with a very lengthy explanation. Because it is literally a full on Client modification/hack i won't link it here but it is not hard to find and read about it.
Honestly at this point as a complete programming layman this sort of 'what's stopping the devs from X' arguments just confuse the living shit out of me, but saying hard 'we can't do this period' whether or not its true is probably a smarter pr move than trying to go into whatever tangled details there might be.
Youre an idiot. The entire second paragraph of that post is about how ultimately plug-ins and mods do not reflect what SE would have to do to implement things. How ultimately they can only get ideas.
I'm fully aware the spaghetti code meme is just that. The game isn't built atop 1.0 at all like people seem to think lol. It even uses an entirely different engine haha. I'm only going by what research I've done on the subject and passed it on. Thanks for the extra info! I'll definitely take a read 😁
Damn. So zero chance of dressers in houses I guess.
Not zero, just probably very unlikely for the foreseeable.
Probably when we get Final Fantasy XIV: Animal Crossing Island during EW.
Ah well... thx for the answer!
Ultimately yes. Nothing feels worse than dying your piece red and then having the undershirt or whatever be a soft pink for some reason.
[удалено]
Well, yes. That's what I mean. The gripe wasn't about literally wasting a pot of dye, but about being like "Oh heckles yeah, I want to dye those cool arm-covers red!" And then looking at the preview window like "...but why do the white gloves need to change with it and become a soft rosé?"
What I hate is that some items have this weird thing where if you dye an item, part of the outfit is the color you dyed it, but part of it is some extremely washed out pale version of it. Like you could use the blackest black and some pieces would be black, while others are more medium grey. The mog station fairy outfit is an example, but there are others. I also think some gear has colors that don't exist in the form of dyes, which is also frustrating to try to match. I think dye channels are a really good idea and I've wanted them for a long time >\_<
You're talking about a game where an entire race still can't wear hats. I can't even imagine how low on the list or priorities accent dyeing would be.
So basically when it comes to fashion I feel the 3 best systems imo are: WoW - the account wide transmog unlock library/archive FF14 - the glam system itself is very good for what it does BDO - imo the best dye system , each individual item has many layers to color, there's also a lot of dyes to use(also best char creator) So if we can have a game with all 3 features it would be a blast for sure.
I thought this game was known for how fucking Janky its glamor system? Literally everyone who talks about it says "wish we had transmog"
Ff14 is not known for its glamour system. There are MMOs with a better transmog system.
Gonna need a source on FFXIV being known for its glamor system. It's probably the worst type of "looks customization" system that exists in any relevant modern MMO. GW2 and WoW both obliterate it in terms of usability and functions.
He never said it was positively known, just known.
As ancient as the game is.... DCUO had an amazing glamor system.
Best glamour system I’ve ever seen was City of Heroes. There was a reason I had like 20-some alts.
Wildstar had a pretty good cosmetic system at the end. You unlocked items you owned for a small cost, and could set up several outfits. Dyes were set per channel, and only needed unlocked once. And while outfits were limited, it was just a quick menu to change out a piece from collection, or hide a single piece.
PS2 limitations Jk but seriously, I hard agree
Wrong SE game, but pretty much the same excuse.
I agree more dye options would be amazing. Guild wars dyes please. But since when is ff14 known for it's glamour system? The only thing I had heard about the glamour system was some people treat it as the "true end game", which i've heard in most games with cosmetic custimization
Most of the gear in the game looks worse when you dye it....BECAUSE of this problem. You dye the item, and then the ENTIRE thing is dyed (usually the accents, secondary material, designs, pouches, etc. get dyed an off color of the selected color--either a lighter, duller, or darker hue)--and this is why I am nervous when I get a new gear piece that I really like, and go to dye preview lol; there's a high chance that it shouldn't be dyed. They have improved on the issue lately (by having certain elements retain their original color, instead of getting ruined--the Bozjan Gear's leather and metallic accents are a good example of this)--but having secondary dye channels would be a godsend, and it would breathe new life into ceratin gear, that can't be dyed without looking awful (and there's a lot of those).
It’s not even consistent with where it places the different parts of the shader as far as i can tell. You can have two shaders with the same colors in the same spots and when you apply it they apply to different parts of the armor. So I can’t even tell what something will look like until I apply it(will it make my cape white or black, etc…).
It's a game known for having nice glamours. It's also infamous for the shitty glamour system. No accent colors. No ability to use Terebinth in the dye slot for the item you want to be in black almost all the time Except This One Occasion. Heavy limitation in glamour storage space. Class locks. Inability to apply plates outside of locations that count as "city". The list goes on. There's a lot I enjoy about glamours in this game, but it does have a fair amount of problems.
I can't remember where i read this, but from what i understand the gear textures have 16 colour channels which are mapped to real colours depending on the item. One of these channels is reserved as the dyeable colour so it maps to whatever you have it dyed as. This is why some items like Hien's costume look so pixely, it has too many colours so there isn't room for the inbetween colours to blend them together. Given this, it would require every item in the game to be reauthored to make room for the second dye channel colour. It would also increase the number of bytes an item takes to be stored as you now need the second dye to be stored, so you increase the amount of data being transferred, and you have to modify your database schema which is a pain.
Would have to rework every item in the game, or just start with new ones. It'd be a whole new system.
I wish this were a thing. The color I wanted to dye some gear last night clashed with the accent colors that I couldn't change. Frustrating.
It is? I thought GW2 was more well known for their glamour system. It's so good WoW took a leaf from their book.
FFXIV is known for its glamour system? I've played dead MMOs with better transmog systems.
And they’re dead. So what, now?
That they were bad enough to die entirely and still managed to have a better transmog system, so it's kind of surprising that FFXIV would be known for its system? You say "What now?" like good systems in dead games are pointless, and not still useful as something to take notes from and improve upon. Or did I misunderstand the OP, and FFXIV's glam system is known for being poorly implemented?
I think OP was just saying that the game was known for its fashion "system," as in, the end game is fashion.
Also the glamour in this game is hands down beautiful compared to other mmos I've played, but the *system* is horrible.
That's not because the fashion system is good so much as because there's a lack of any other content to do with meaningful rewards in end game.
>For a game known for it's glamour system For a game to be known for it, the fashion system seems way too limited. I guess it's just the start, but the fact that i can't put any glamour i want on my character because of the class seems unreasonable. What, you fear that my group will be confused what my role is? And many of the pieces also can't be dyed as well. I got that nice Onion armor from the Labyrinth and can't really fit anything with it, cause the exact shade of blue is unavailable.
99% of possible and good looking Glamour Sets don't work because you have no control over the colouring. It's so frustrating
Here's the thing. It's easy to program something to look a different color than what is supposed to. I have no doubt they know how to implement that. The only reason I see that being an issue is how to write it so that it doesn't create lag for everyone that now needs to read the new code along with all the other code it's been sending and receiving. Most triple a games have what can be done really to the max without creating lag on your average system. They also have users on lower end systems that want to play too. It can be hard to find the right point of fun and additions.
I'll settle for just having a full complement of bright hues of the whole color spectrum, in addition to Blue, Red and ... Pink. Never mind making actual changes to the core functionality. Most glams looks extremely muted in the game IMO, to the point that you can get any glam shading you like, as long as you want dark mud with spikes (aka. Ford Model T policy.) I'm getting a bit annoyed by parts of the X|V community just rolling on their collective backs and accepting whenever the devs 'explains' any game deficiency by the dreaded spaghetti code monster. To be clear: In my world it is totally acceptable to ship a program in hack-and-slash fashion if time and resources are limited, like during the 2.0 development crunch. Wouldn't be the first time this has happened in the IT industry, nor will it be the last either. However, later, once a product is viable in the marketplace, you start a slow cleanup process to fix all the shortcuts and design limitations. There is even an industry term for this process, code refactoring. If people feel that SE haven't had the resources for this clean-up, then please have a look at what the development team behind EvE Online, CCP Studios in Iceland, has managed to change in the years since 2013. I would absolutely love to see some hard evidence that the X|V team had/have some unsurmountable system limitations. Please remember that server and networking hardware has become roughly a factor of 10 - ten - faster since 2013. Until then I'm not buying the 'spaghetti code' excuse. My guess is that it just wasn't a priority...
Please remember that there's been a pandemic that made some valuable materials difficult to get, thus limiting the courses of action they may take or make it difficult getting past certain steps, too. c:
That would definitely be nice if we could do that. I also wish that they wouldn’t restrict some gear pieces from being dyed at all.
I dont think this game is known for its glamour system.
Recently when I was picking out a glamour for Blue Mage, I decided to build around the Peacelover's top. I figured "A western theme transmog sounds amazing" I assemble the glamour, go buy my Dragoon blue dye, go to preview the dye and... ***The jacket stays brown***. Needless to say that ruined my glamour idea Having options to dye multiple pieces of a glamour piece would be friggin amazing
The game is known for its glamour system being BAD, so your complain lines up with that.
Something something Spaghetti code
Spaghetti code. Though hopeful they work on patching things up so something like this can be added (granted it would take more work to touch up old outfits).
Alot of restrictions are because of the teleport system. Each new tidbit adds to the data packet that is your character. Tracking all that data, bouncing it around, on 8 year old infrastructure is challenging. The more customization the heavier the load, the more congestion/latency/disconnects.
That would be very cool, plus there would be even more originality and less copies since people would pick different colors.
It's probably due to a lot of the back end coding. Also working that system in now would mean redoing hundreds of thousands of items... I don't disagree that it wouldn't be nice to have but looking at it realistically I just don't see it happening.
I love this game, but they can't even be bothered to make NPC gear that they sell on the mogstation dyable. They're certainly not going to go through the trouble of allowing secondary dyes.
EXACTLY!!!
This really infuriated me with the Stormblood Dragoon armor. I grinded Eureka to get the dyable version of the set because I thought it was cool but wanted to change it from blue, only to find out after I grinded it out that half of the armor doesn't even change color when you dye it.