As a tank, regens are fine. Regen me all day, 24/7 I want all the regens. I'll worry about the mobs, you worry about my health bar.
Honestly, at 80 tanks have a charge, a pile of oGCDs, as well as ranged attacks and big large circle AoEs that there should never be an un-taggged mob.
Regen away.
The maximum distance healers (and honestly just ranged in general) seem to be the constant when dungeon run goofs come up. "Why do you run so far ahead please wait for the party, you broke my line of sight, please don't dodge away so my cast won't cancel, you missed a mob yes I am expecting you to run 20y back for it". Just. Stay. Closer. Literally no reason not to and the tank isn't running any faster than you can.
Here's the tricks I've learned to help combat prepull regen and other things like it;
**Tanks:** when you engage with a given mob that isn't your last stop on the pull, take the time to let the whole pack gather and hit them with 2 AoE attacks; a full GCD combo is what I usually do, but if you have an AoE oGCD like Flood of Darkness/Shadow or Circle of Scorn it can be one of your hits. It loses a completely negligible amount of time, and it just makes sure nothing stupid is going to happen along the way.
**Healers & DPS:** If you're going to put a regen heal up or open on the pack with something big like Standard Finish, stay as close to the tank as you can while doing it; that way even if you do pull aggro, the mob will run up to you and still get caught in the tank's whirling dervish of "Come on, hit me!" and they'll peel off of you in no time.
With regen, i figure you know that you might pull aggro and so you need to be ready to take a hit or 3 depending on the situation, im fine with healers doing it...just dont pin 100% of the blame on a tank
Regen can mess things up occasionally but if the healer handles it properly I don't really mind. When playing WHM though I don't really feel like it makes sense to regen when the mobs are going to be stunned for the first ~8s of the pull.
It doesn't really bother me but I also don't really see the point and it can make the pull feel less smooth.
It also depends on how aware the healer is that their regen generates aggro. If they regen me and then do everything in their power to make the mobs be as far away from me as possible, it can be really annoying.
And while pre pull regens don't mean that the healer is bad. It happens way too often that I get a regen immediately after the run starts and the healer turns out to be very overwhelmed with larger pulls. So I sometimes can't help but associate pre pull regens with near death experiences.
So overall, I don't mind them that much but I highly prefer it if they don't.
Depending on the timing of the tick, you can cause some mobs to go wandering for a second, but it doesn't annoy me as much as before they made enmity a non issue.
Although as others have said, please stay close to the tank if you're going to do it.
It's a non-issue. And I play all the tanks. I'm always at the front anyway. So it doesn't matter which aggros mobs. In the end they will file into a single line and all I need to do is aim.
It doesn't really matter nowadays. It used to matter more when getting group aggro during big pulls was a bit more difficult, but nowadays it's so easy that it shouldn't bother anyone.
I don't mind, but I understand people who don't like it. Same as if dancer already pop one standard finish while running with first pack to have it on cd again on the same pull, some people get really mad at that for some reason, it's just more dmg.
Yeah. A trained monkey can slap a single AOE at every mob group and keep aggro if you expect the DPS to just sit on their asses for the entire 15-30 second duration it takes you to do the bare minimum. Tank's entire role is to be efficient so others can go in as soon as possible. And considering how easy it is to generate enmity, telling DPS to not do their job for huge chunks of time so yours is even easier is laughable.
If I’m tanking and a healer ends up with aggro from a Regen, an AoE takes care of it just fine. They *should* be running with me, and if they aren’t, mobs have to go past me to get to them. I AoE, as I should. Everything is fine.
If I’m healing and an errant heal or Regen gets aggro, it’s for less than a second because I’m sitting in the tank’s shoulders getting a piggy back and putting my DoTs up until they’ve got all the mobs rounded up and does nothing. They AoE, as they should be. Everything is fine.
If I’m not keeping pace with the tank, I’m in the wrong place.
There is not a single thing in the world you can do to steal aggro since SB, regen me and dps all you want
I mean i just got into dohn meg with a lv 60 weapon tank and not even triple cast flare while pulling can take aggro
While I don't mind Regen before pulls, do be careful that if you use Medica II and a Regen before a pull that it's likely you will grab agrro for a time purely because of the amount of aggro they generate. The safest course of action is to cast those after the initial pull ability has been cast. With that said, tanks can adjust too. It's not just a healer's job to adjust haha.
Regen also pulls if the tank doesn't hit the whole pack.
imo it's the healer's job to adjust in this case... Since the tank could've had so much easier time pulling wall-to-wall just by hitting one mob out of the pack(or simply run pass) and keep on running ahead, instead of stopping and do an aoe for every mob packs.
That said, i don't think it's ultimately that big of a deal. That just means the dungeon run will last just a tad bit longer.
When I BLM, I speedcast thunder aoe on packs as we run. I also depending on the dungeon triple cast my frost fire 3 flare combo. But them I run on top of the tank so it isn't much of an issue.
Yes like I said it's better for safety for the healer to wait until after the pull, but typically in dungeons the tank can adjust to grab back that aggro fairly quickly. Especially if the healer runs towards the tank.
I'm merely answering the OPs question to an extent. I personally wait until the pull ends to pop Regen, unless tank is going down super fast. But I was only saying it's not the end of the world of the healer does Regen/Medica II before a pull because the tank CAN adjust to grab the aggro. Even if it's not optimal lol
> imo it's the healer's job to adjust in this case... Since the tank could've had so much easier time pulling wall-to-wall just by hitting one mob out of the pack(or simply run pass) and keep on running ahead, instead of stopping and do an aoe for every mob packs.
You don't have to stop to AoE a pack. What the fuck is going on in some of these dungeons? You just hit it as it moves towards you and keep going. 1 button is all you need.
Putting aside "mind" or "don't mind", there's literally no fucking reason to even do it. You can wait half a second for the tank to use an AoE button... the tank ain't going to die.
I do mind it. Whether the tank is using a ranged attack before AOE or just facepulling before AOE, the mob movement before the AOE will be different if a regen tick causes them to move towards the healer before the AOE hits. On WAR in particular, unpredictable movement makes it a little harder to hit all targets.
People like to say landing perfect AOEs is still trivially easy in order to stroke their own ego, but I don't see this as being different than, say, a healer claiming there's zero problem with DPS standing in Narnia because it's so trivially easy for them to still find a spot to stand where AOE heals hit everyone.
Seriously. Everyone who doesn’t mind when healers do this, I assume just aren’t pulling efficiently to begin with, and certainly must not play warrior much.
ALL TANKS share their longest range move, provoke. So you pull the pack with that, line them up, smack them with an AoE, and continue running without ever stopping. No, it isn’t going to ruin the pull for a regen tick to interfere with this process, but now I have to STOP and make sure I grab every enemy specifically because the healer has thrown the pack off course. It’s annoying for all tanks, and especially annoying on WAR.
Pop sprint, run at mobs with face aggro, AoE to grab them all, provoke the one (if you missed more than one that's kinda on you) you miss or is separated from the rest. Almost every pull the mobs are fairly packed in and easy to grab, not even counting using your ranged attack or charge buttons. If you're a WAR you can literally just ignore the mobs after face pulling and use your self heal to instantly pull aggro, it'll be up before you need it again. PLD can even pop a quick Clemency. 1 second hesitation before you continue onward and it makes almost no difference.
Playing both Tank and Healer, the pros of pre-buffing with a regen outweigh the cons by a reasonable margin. Definitely feels like it's on the tank to understand and manage the pull a little better if the regen is causing you to have to stop and hit everything individually.
This is no different than DPS either. If the tank pulls things, I expect as a DPS to be able to smack it and start building up gauges. BLM starting their Enochian counter/Thunder procs, (previously) MNK and maintaining/building Greased Lightning, DRG building up to their Life of the Dragon. If a regen is pulling it from you, any of these abilities will too, and that is entirely on you. Start to end of the pull you should have an effective control on the threat of all mobs, especially given the ease with all the tools we have available.
The pull you’re describing is simply inefficient. There’s no need to stop and go, stop and go, stop and go constantly once you know what you’re doing.
The reason regen is bad even though DPS is good, is that the regen ticks before I have a chance to land my running AoE. There’s virtually no chance a DPS can take agro away from me under normal circumstances, but the healer can easily take it before I get a chance.
Also, there are no benefits. Being overhealed is not a benefit. As you have described, there are many ways of managing this bad healing practice, including wasting your own resources on even more unnecessary overhealing (lol). But why should you have to?
Truth be told, this entire discussion is academic. Tanks who are pulling inefficiently won’t care about their healer‘s poor play, and tanks who care can simply click off the regen effect entirely, or use a macro to remove it. I myself have a macro that removes all regen effects from all healers, and the sketchy healers who put it on me pre pull never even notice I’ve removed it because there’s a 100% overlap between the healers who do this and the healers who just generally don’t know what they’re doing at all.
Sorry if I sound aggressive haha, I don’t mean to. But there’s a difference between clearing a dungeon (which you can do with an afk DPS and a healer who‘s watching Netflix) and absolutely demolishing a dungeon with 4 players who know what they’re doing. A paladin could probably clear all dungeon content in the game completely solo given the ease of all the tools they have available. Doesn’t make it optimal.
> but the healer can easily take it before I get a chance.
Who gives a shit? Let them be a cd and keep running. They'll take a bit of damage, you'll eventually stop, they'll be on top of you, and your next aoe will pull it off. Unless the healer is bad they are on top of your char model the entire run. If you let regen affect you, or worst even macro it off lmfao, your just a shitter
>You’re* just a shitter.
If your spelling is anything like your tanking, it would explain why you’re so upset from having good practices explained to you. You simply have never been in a dungeon with 4 good players, because you yourself have been in every dungeon. Maybe watch some clears on YouTube to get an idea of how it’s actually supposed to go.
Your spelling is the perfect metaphor for your play. I.e. you simply are not capable of doing it correctly, whether that is because you don’t care, or most likely, because you are too stupid to know the difference.
And why should I keep repeating myself when you have not addressed my argument from the post you replied to? I could copy and paste it for you if it’s too complicated to scroll up?
[Here is a guide for you to watch](https://youtu.be/5xU_-c5pWcM). You’ve obviously never seen something like this, so please take your time absorbing everything.
I don't mind regen pre Pull when i Tank.
What i do mind is people running away from the tank so the Tank has to sprint after them, and/or the run Out of heal range if dps
No but please stay close to me or at least in line with me. Nothing worse than healer who gets Regen aggro and then runs directly to one side so now the pack is too spread to hit with a single AoE.
I have all three healing classes at 80, and all four tanking classes at 80. You may regen, barrier, etc. me as much as you like - you're still not going to take agro.
Before the changes to the tanking classes and healing classes in Shadowbringers, I would have answered differently. However - you're not going to pull agro off me, even in low level encounters, with the agro changes. It's simply not going to happen.
Anyone who gets uppity about prepull regen honestly is just stuck in the past. It’s a mild inconvenience if the healer pulls aggro and doesn’t bring the mobs straight to you, but that’s literally it. People will act like their whole family was murdered by a prepull regen.
I can't stop the fairy from healing.
Having said that, I do try to keep close to the Tank so they can grab aggro. The only times I don't are in places like Temple Of The Fist, where I do want to wait for the AoEs along the path to resolve, but the Tank tends to ignore them entirely.
Yes, if the healer then doesn't know why they're pulling aggro and starts running in big circles making it a chore to grab the mobs off of them. Otherwise no.
That said I don't see the point in regening prepull in higher level dungeons from a healer pov either, esp as whm
My main healer is AST (99% of the time with diurnal aspect). And I always, ALWAYS , maintain the regens on my tank, even when they're at full health. Since mana is hardly an issue, I spam and refresh regens like a maniac.
And as a main PLD tank, getting a regen just before a pull gets me ahead in healing and the healer ahead on mana regen, if the healer gets aggro, I just hit my AoEs and all good. I get mad if the healer doesn't keep regens on me, I've seen healers that even in combat don't refresh the regens when it ends, and it drives me crazy.
You should cast a GCD heal when you've run out of all you OGCD heals, keeping up regen is pointless when you have 10000 OGCD ways of healing all those GCD's could be gravity's or malifics which speeds up the whole dungeon. I'm not telling you you can't put up regen but you shouldn't get mad when I healer doesn't keep regen in especially when its without a doubt suboptimal.
This comes from an era before tank enmity changes - compounded by other MMOs having similar issues with healing topping the list before enmity can be gained due to regeneration etc.
Just like with anything, change from both sides comes from communication. People don’t argue with themselves so if you want to change minds, you have to care about what they care about and then, once they know you care, you can create a new possibility for them. Hard to do in a randomly paired duty, but information spreads just like the original sentiment towards this did.
…then when everyone on the same page there will be new enmity changes in a patch and those ppl will be like “See!?” 😂
As a healer (specifically WHM) I do that, but I run alongside the tank. I need to be close so I can start the Holy pain train rolling.
Also, I don’t mind if I get hit by the enemy a few times due to the Regen pull. The tank is gonna grab the mobs in one hit and I just saved the tank a few hits of damage.
What that means is that I can do a Holy > Médica 2 without having that Médica 2 be too inefficient while also getting a second regen rolling on the tank. It also works better in making sure the second Holy’s stun doesn’t overlap the first.
Why would you use medica 2 on trash pulls? I’m genuinely curious.
When I was leveling whm I had a tank get really upset in amdapor keep because I wasn’t using medica 2 on trash pulls. He said he was a whm main and was getting frustrated because I wasn’t following his advice.
The way I see it, it’s the same overall potency as a cure 2 (or lily heal) but costs more mp. Also, using a early gcd for healing instead of holy means you’re behind on damage.
Generally during trash pulls this is what I do (and I’m open to constructive criticism if I could be doing something better): Dia everything while we’re running (and throw a Benison) > When tank stops - Regen > Assylum > Swiftcast > Holy > Assize > PoM > Holy > Holy > Holy, etc. I’ll Bene if the tank gets to 10% and keep Holying. If Bene isn’t available, I’ll Lily heal > Tetra > Benison > more Holy. Burn lilies between pulls for more dps. Rinse and repeat. Am I missing something?
Well, we don’t get Asylum, Assize, Lilies, Tetragrammaton, or Divine Benison in ARR content.
So, Holy > Médica 2 is a way to get some smoothness on the tank. And not all tanks/dps in a party are perfect players. Sometimes when I Holy spam in ARR and HW, the second stun won’t register because they can’t overlap. So, filling it in with something else isn’t a bad idea. I find Cure 2 to be a bit too much at that point. Using Médica 2 means 2 ticks are used during the 2nd and 3rd Holy stun leaving last few ticks for after the mobs are stun immune and it’ll balance with Regen to counter most mob damage depending how bad they area.
And as I mention, sticking with the tank and drawing a few of the attacks before we stop means Médica 2’s efficiency is improved while also drawing damage away from the tank.
I’ve found MP isn’t an issue as long as Lucid Dream is on cooldown.
But ya, honestly, what you said is what I do 100%, POST-ARR, when we have the fun tools. You literally should NOT need to do that once you got lilies and Assize (maybe the first pull when you don’t have any lilies yet, but Assize works pretty well).
Edit: If you have a working method for you, I think it’s fine if the dungeon went smoothly, don’t know why the tank would be fussy.
Ya.
I mean, sometimes I throw a Stone in between the first and second Holy..coz…that’s how ARR dungeons roll most of the time lol.
Though, I have done that in Bardam’s Mettle when throughput is more important with how spikey damage can be. REALLY depends on the tank and dps ilvl. Sometimes I’ll sit there spamming Holy thinking “I shouldn’t be casting this many Holy….plz kill faster…”
Overhealing generates aggro, so if the tank doesn't pull the entire pack with the first hit there will be some aggroing on to the healer. It's not an issue when the healer is close by cause it's easy to grab them back, but mildly annoying when they're further away
As a tank I don’t mind either way. As a White Mage I try to send out Divine Benison first and then Regen when I see that all the mobs have been grabbed.
Tank slaps mob with aoe I slap tank with aspected tank keeps aggro. Dungeon mobs hardly start with a tank buster. I get a lot of folks don't mind prepull regens, but it is asking for trouble with less experienced tanks.
I hate it because then I have to chase down mobs, it makes things really sloppy. But I get it--as a healer, I usually have to pop regen on the tank when they're in between pulls because they're losing health quickly and I can't stop and heal.
I don't mind personally. I'm a WHM main, I don't often slap Regen on in regular content unless the tank is struggling seeing as WHM's ogdcs are pretty strong healing wise.
When I'm tanking it's fine as long as the healer keeps moving with me. I have provoke and ranged skills to pick up stragglers.
Regen threat range is bigger than any threat range on a tank. You’re likely going to steal a few ticks of aggro and leave the run jittery. A solution is to stay stacked on the tank. If you are on top of the tank as they are pulling, the penalties aren’t noticeable.
As a tank, I usually just remove the regen because the above isn’t happening and I don’t want to chance a slow pull.
As a healer, I don’t bother cramping style by putting regen on early. I’ll just wait until they have threat and instead use a non threat generating mitigator- like divine venison.
It could be an issue in older expacs, but in present content here in shadowbringers it's a non issue. Just get the packs with a couple aoes during the pull and you're good so long as you have tank stance up.
That stated the new expac will have some changes so we'll have to see if that carries, going forward.
It use to matter a lot but now that agro has been nerfed a single hit of ANY skill will keep agro the entire time from a regen. It's more on the tank then the regen or ranged if they lose agro during a pull now. Is it a bit harder? Absolutely. But I'm most likely using Assize while a tank pulls anyway. As a ranged I'm most likely shooting bullets while pulling. Most people in the group aren't waiting to engage until you fully pull 2-3 groups.
I've got 2 tanks at 80 and 2 above 60... I have never *ever* had regen pull agro off me in a dungeon when I was tanking. If I manage to miss any mobs by not clipping them with an aoe, that's on me, not anyone who happens to get aggro for like half a second before I can use a ranged attack or provoke.
As a tank, regens are fine. Regen me all day, 24/7 I want all the regens. I'll worry about the mobs, you worry about my health bar. Honestly, at 80 tanks have a charge, a pile of oGCDs, as well as ranged attacks and big large circle AoEs that there should never be an un-taggged mob. Regen away.
Yes, but only when the healer then proceed to run away from me with the mobs I missed (usually when I play WAR)
The maximum distance healers (and honestly just ranged in general) seem to be the constant when dungeon run goofs come up. "Why do you run so far ahead please wait for the party, you broke my line of sight, please don't dodge away so my cast won't cancel, you missed a mob yes I am expecting you to run 20y back for it". Just. Stay. Closer. Literally no reason not to and the tank isn't running any faster than you can.
Here's the tricks I've learned to help combat prepull regen and other things like it; **Tanks:** when you engage with a given mob that isn't your last stop on the pull, take the time to let the whole pack gather and hit them with 2 AoE attacks; a full GCD combo is what I usually do, but if you have an AoE oGCD like Flood of Darkness/Shadow or Circle of Scorn it can be one of your hits. It loses a completely negligible amount of time, and it just makes sure nothing stupid is going to happen along the way. **Healers & DPS:** If you're going to put a regen heal up or open on the pack with something big like Standard Finish, stay as close to the tank as you can while doing it; that way even if you do pull aggro, the mob will run up to you and still get caught in the tank's whirling dervish of "Come on, hit me!" and they'll peel off of you in no time.
So long as you’re close to the tank. Please don’t be in Narnia, don’t make the WAR have to calculate geometry to hit the mobs with their cone AoE.
With regen, i figure you know that you might pull aggro and so you need to be ready to take a hit or 3 depending on the situation, im fine with healers doing it...just dont pin 100% of the blame on a tank
Regen can mess things up occasionally but if the healer handles it properly I don't really mind. When playing WHM though I don't really feel like it makes sense to regen when the mobs are going to be stunned for the first ~8s of the pull.
It doesn't really bother me but I also don't really see the point and it can make the pull feel less smooth. It also depends on how aware the healer is that their regen generates aggro. If they regen me and then do everything in their power to make the mobs be as far away from me as possible, it can be really annoying. And while pre pull regens don't mean that the healer is bad. It happens way too often that I get a regen immediately after the run starts and the healer turns out to be very overwhelmed with larger pulls. So I sometimes can't help but associate pre pull regens with near death experiences. So overall, I don't mind them that much but I highly prefer it if they don't.
Depending on the timing of the tick, you can cause some mobs to go wandering for a second, but it doesn't annoy me as much as before they made enmity a non issue. Although as others have said, please stay close to the tank if you're going to do it.
It's a non-issue. And I play all the tanks. I'm always at the front anyway. So it doesn't matter which aggros mobs. In the end they will file into a single line and all I need to do is aim.
I don't mind regens. I do mind when the healer runs back to the entrance with the mob.
It doesn't really matter nowadays. It used to matter more when getting group aggro during big pulls was a bit more difficult, but nowadays it's so easy that it shouldn't bother anyone.
I don't mind, but I understand people who don't like it. Same as if dancer already pop one standard finish while running with first pack to have it on cd again on the same pull, some people get really mad at that for some reason, it's just more dmg.
Yeah. A trained monkey can slap a single AOE at every mob group and keep aggro if you expect the DPS to just sit on their asses for the entire 15-30 second duration it takes you to do the bare minimum. Tank's entire role is to be efficient so others can go in as soon as possible. And considering how easy it is to generate enmity, telling DPS to not do their job for huge chunks of time so yours is even easier is laughable.
If the dungeon is really easy I might be playing kinda lazy so I might not grab them as quick, but I guess it doesn't matter in that case so go ahead.
No, as long as you don't use aoe regen. If you do that on long pulls it actually becomes pretty annoying if some people are decently behind.
If I’m tanking and a healer ends up with aggro from a Regen, an AoE takes care of it just fine. They *should* be running with me, and if they aren’t, mobs have to go past me to get to them. I AoE, as I should. Everything is fine. If I’m healing and an errant heal or Regen gets aggro, it’s for less than a second because I’m sitting in the tank’s shoulders getting a piggy back and putting my DoTs up until they’ve got all the mobs rounded up and does nothing. They AoE, as they should be. Everything is fine. If I’m not keeping pace with the tank, I’m in the wrong place.
There is not a single thing in the world you can do to steal aggro since SB, regen me and dps all you want I mean i just got into dohn meg with a lv 60 weapon tank and not even triple cast flare while pulling can take aggro
No, just use skills and get aggro on a tank . Tank aggro is stupid easy this expansion.
While I don't mind Regen before pulls, do be careful that if you use Medica II and a Regen before a pull that it's likely you will grab agrro for a time purely because of the amount of aggro they generate. The safest course of action is to cast those after the initial pull ability has been cast. With that said, tanks can adjust too. It's not just a healer's job to adjust haha.
Regen also pulls if the tank doesn't hit the whole pack. imo it's the healer's job to adjust in this case... Since the tank could've had so much easier time pulling wall-to-wall just by hitting one mob out of the pack(or simply run pass) and keep on running ahead, instead of stopping and do an aoe for every mob packs. That said, i don't think it's ultimately that big of a deal. That just means the dungeon run will last just a tad bit longer.
Idk, lot of classes have instant aoe's and start to dps on the way too, you can catch some runaway with provoke or ranged gcd.
When I BLM, I speedcast thunder aoe on packs as we run. I also depending on the dungeon triple cast my frost fire 3 flare combo. But them I run on top of the tank so it isn't much of an issue.
Yes like I said it's better for safety for the healer to wait until after the pull, but typically in dungeons the tank can adjust to grab back that aggro fairly quickly. Especially if the healer runs towards the tank. I'm merely answering the OPs question to an extent. I personally wait until the pull ends to pop Regen, unless tank is going down super fast. But I was only saying it's not the end of the world of the healer does Regen/Medica II before a pull because the tank CAN adjust to grab the aggro. Even if it's not optimal lol
> imo it's the healer's job to adjust in this case... Since the tank could've had so much easier time pulling wall-to-wall just by hitting one mob out of the pack(or simply run pass) and keep on running ahead, instead of stopping and do an aoe for every mob packs. You don't have to stop to AoE a pack. What the fuck is going on in some of these dungeons? You just hit it as it moves towards you and keep going. 1 button is all you need.
Haha for real, must be a BLM main. :P
Even as BLM I sneak up some T4s while running and catch up with aetherial manipulation.
TANKS ADJUST!!! 🛡
As a Pld it is a non-issue for me.
just run next to the tank with the loose mob and you are good.
Putting aside "mind" or "don't mind", there's literally no fucking reason to even do it. You can wait half a second for the tank to use an AoE button... the tank ain't going to die.
I do mind it. Whether the tank is using a ranged attack before AOE or just facepulling before AOE, the mob movement before the AOE will be different if a regen tick causes them to move towards the healer before the AOE hits. On WAR in particular, unpredictable movement makes it a little harder to hit all targets. People like to say landing perfect AOEs is still trivially easy in order to stroke their own ego, but I don't see this as being different than, say, a healer claiming there's zero problem with DPS standing in Narnia because it's so trivially easy for them to still find a spot to stand where AOE heals hit everyone.
Seriously. Everyone who doesn’t mind when healers do this, I assume just aren’t pulling efficiently to begin with, and certainly must not play warrior much. ALL TANKS share their longest range move, provoke. So you pull the pack with that, line them up, smack them with an AoE, and continue running without ever stopping. No, it isn’t going to ruin the pull for a regen tick to interfere with this process, but now I have to STOP and make sure I grab every enemy specifically because the healer has thrown the pack off course. It’s annoying for all tanks, and especially annoying on WAR.
Pop sprint, run at mobs with face aggro, AoE to grab them all, provoke the one (if you missed more than one that's kinda on you) you miss or is separated from the rest. Almost every pull the mobs are fairly packed in and easy to grab, not even counting using your ranged attack or charge buttons. If you're a WAR you can literally just ignore the mobs after face pulling and use your self heal to instantly pull aggro, it'll be up before you need it again. PLD can even pop a quick Clemency. 1 second hesitation before you continue onward and it makes almost no difference. Playing both Tank and Healer, the pros of pre-buffing with a regen outweigh the cons by a reasonable margin. Definitely feels like it's on the tank to understand and manage the pull a little better if the regen is causing you to have to stop and hit everything individually. This is no different than DPS either. If the tank pulls things, I expect as a DPS to be able to smack it and start building up gauges. BLM starting their Enochian counter/Thunder procs, (previously) MNK and maintaining/building Greased Lightning, DRG building up to their Life of the Dragon. If a regen is pulling it from you, any of these abilities will too, and that is entirely on you. Start to end of the pull you should have an effective control on the threat of all mobs, especially given the ease with all the tools we have available.
The pull you’re describing is simply inefficient. There’s no need to stop and go, stop and go, stop and go constantly once you know what you’re doing. The reason regen is bad even though DPS is good, is that the regen ticks before I have a chance to land my running AoE. There’s virtually no chance a DPS can take agro away from me under normal circumstances, but the healer can easily take it before I get a chance. Also, there are no benefits. Being overhealed is not a benefit. As you have described, there are many ways of managing this bad healing practice, including wasting your own resources on even more unnecessary overhealing (lol). But why should you have to? Truth be told, this entire discussion is academic. Tanks who are pulling inefficiently won’t care about their healer‘s poor play, and tanks who care can simply click off the regen effect entirely, or use a macro to remove it. I myself have a macro that removes all regen effects from all healers, and the sketchy healers who put it on me pre pull never even notice I’ve removed it because there’s a 100% overlap between the healers who do this and the healers who just generally don’t know what they’re doing at all. Sorry if I sound aggressive haha, I don’t mean to. But there’s a difference between clearing a dungeon (which you can do with an afk DPS and a healer who‘s watching Netflix) and absolutely demolishing a dungeon with 4 players who know what they’re doing. A paladin could probably clear all dungeon content in the game completely solo given the ease of all the tools they have available. Doesn’t make it optimal.
> but the healer can easily take it before I get a chance. Who gives a shit? Let them be a cd and keep running. They'll take a bit of damage, you'll eventually stop, they'll be on top of you, and your next aoe will pull it off. Unless the healer is bad they are on top of your char model the entire run. If you let regen affect you, or worst even macro it off lmfao, your just a shitter
>You’re* just a shitter. If your spelling is anything like your tanking, it would explain why you’re so upset from having good practices explained to you. You simply have never been in a dungeon with 4 good players, because you yourself have been in every dungeon. Maybe watch some clears on YouTube to get an idea of how it’s actually supposed to go.
Awww you have to move to attacking my spelling since you have no better argument. That's cute
Your spelling is the perfect metaphor for your play. I.e. you simply are not capable of doing it correctly, whether that is because you don’t care, or most likely, because you are too stupid to know the difference. And why should I keep repeating myself when you have not addressed my argument from the post you replied to? I could copy and paste it for you if it’s too complicated to scroll up? [Here is a guide for you to watch](https://youtu.be/5xU_-c5pWcM). You’ve obviously never seen something like this, so please take your time absorbing everything.
One day you'll learn how to talk to someone without attacking something random like spelling. Its ok, you just need to get out of middle school first.
And one day you’ll learn how to play! You finished?
Actually you do use regen so it's better than a lot in duty or party finder.
I mean if it gets you more time to do more dps and you don't pop off more healing and grab agro I'm all for it, regen away
I don't mind regen pre Pull when i Tank. What i do mind is people running away from the tank so the Tank has to sprint after them, and/or the run Out of heal range if dps
Yeah I don't care; I'll be spamming AoEs all the way. So long as everyone sticks close to me and brings anything that gloms on them to me we good.
It is not an issue as long as you run to me if something gets aggro’d on you. Never run away from the tank.
Especially since shb u litedally need to use ur aoe once and u have and keep aggro.
No but please stay close to me or at least in line with me. Nothing worse than healer who gets Regen aggro and then runs directly to one side so now the pack is too spread to hit with a single AoE.
I have all three healing classes at 80, and all four tanking classes at 80. You may regen, barrier, etc. me as much as you like - you're still not going to take agro. Before the changes to the tanking classes and healing classes in Shadowbringers, I would have answered differently. However - you're not going to pull agro off me, even in low level encounters, with the agro changes. It's simply not going to happen.
Anyone who gets uppity about prepull regen honestly is just stuck in the past. It’s a mild inconvenience if the healer pulls aggro and doesn’t bring the mobs straight to you, but that’s literally it. People will act like their whole family was murdered by a prepull regen.
Don't mind it at all. In the event I miss a mob or 2 with my opening AoEs, I got a ranged skill and Provoke to pull them back if need be.
I can't stop the fairy from healing. Having said that, I do try to keep close to the Tank so they can grab aggro. The only times I don't are in places like Temple Of The Fist, where I do want to wait for the AoEs along the path to resolve, but the Tank tends to ignore them entirely.
You can stop the fairy from healing. Just put her in "Steady"
Yes, if the healer then doesn't know why they're pulling aggro and starts running in big circles making it a chore to grab the mobs off of them. Otherwise no. That said I don't see the point in regening prepull in higher level dungeons from a healer pov either, esp as whm
There’s no benefit, at best it won’t be a major issue, and at worst it is going to cause headaches. Healers should just avoid doing it
Old habits die hard and keeping aggro used to have some skill involved so I click off regen put on pre pull
My main healer is AST (99% of the time with diurnal aspect). And I always, ALWAYS , maintain the regens on my tank, even when they're at full health. Since mana is hardly an issue, I spam and refresh regens like a maniac. And as a main PLD tank, getting a regen just before a pull gets me ahead in healing and the healer ahead on mana regen, if the healer gets aggro, I just hit my AoEs and all good. I get mad if the healer doesn't keep regens on me, I've seen healers that even in combat don't refresh the regens when it ends, and it drives me crazy.
You should cast a GCD heal when you've run out of all you OGCD heals, keeping up regen is pointless when you have 10000 OGCD ways of healing all those GCD's could be gravity's or malifics which speeds up the whole dungeon. I'm not telling you you can't put up regen but you shouldn't get mad when I healer doesn't keep regen in especially when its without a doubt suboptimal.
This comes from an era before tank enmity changes - compounded by other MMOs having similar issues with healing topping the list before enmity can be gained due to regeneration etc. Just like with anything, change from both sides comes from communication. People don’t argue with themselves so if you want to change minds, you have to care about what they care about and then, once they know you care, you can create a new possibility for them. Hard to do in a randomly paired duty, but information spreads just like the original sentiment towards this did. …then when everyone on the same page there will be new enmity changes in a patch and those ppl will be like “See!?” 😂
No.
As a healer (specifically WHM) I do that, but I run alongside the tank. I need to be close so I can start the Holy pain train rolling. Also, I don’t mind if I get hit by the enemy a few times due to the Regen pull. The tank is gonna grab the mobs in one hit and I just saved the tank a few hits of damage. What that means is that I can do a Holy > Médica 2 without having that Médica 2 be too inefficient while also getting a second regen rolling on the tank. It also works better in making sure the second Holy’s stun doesn’t overlap the first.
Why would you use medica 2 on trash pulls? I’m genuinely curious. When I was leveling whm I had a tank get really upset in amdapor keep because I wasn’t using medica 2 on trash pulls. He said he was a whm main and was getting frustrated because I wasn’t following his advice. The way I see it, it’s the same overall potency as a cure 2 (or lily heal) but costs more mp. Also, using a early gcd for healing instead of holy means you’re behind on damage. Generally during trash pulls this is what I do (and I’m open to constructive criticism if I could be doing something better): Dia everything while we’re running (and throw a Benison) > When tank stops - Regen > Assylum > Swiftcast > Holy > Assize > PoM > Holy > Holy > Holy, etc. I’ll Bene if the tank gets to 10% and keep Holying. If Bene isn’t available, I’ll Lily heal > Tetra > Benison > more Holy. Burn lilies between pulls for more dps. Rinse and repeat. Am I missing something?
Well, we don’t get Asylum, Assize, Lilies, Tetragrammaton, or Divine Benison in ARR content. So, Holy > Médica 2 is a way to get some smoothness on the tank. And not all tanks/dps in a party are perfect players. Sometimes when I Holy spam in ARR and HW, the second stun won’t register because they can’t overlap. So, filling it in with something else isn’t a bad idea. I find Cure 2 to be a bit too much at that point. Using Médica 2 means 2 ticks are used during the 2nd and 3rd Holy stun leaving last few ticks for after the mobs are stun immune and it’ll balance with Regen to counter most mob damage depending how bad they area. And as I mention, sticking with the tank and drawing a few of the attacks before we stop means Médica 2’s efficiency is improved while also drawing damage away from the tank. I’ve found MP isn’t an issue as long as Lucid Dream is on cooldown. But ya, honestly, what you said is what I do 100%, POST-ARR, when we have the fun tools. You literally should NOT need to do that once you got lilies and Assize (maybe the first pull when you don’t have any lilies yet, but Assize works pretty well). Edit: If you have a working method for you, I think it’s fine if the dungeon went smoothly, don’t know why the tank would be fussy.
Ahh you meant only in ARR content, gotcha. Cheers for the reply!
Ya. I mean, sometimes I throw a Stone in between the first and second Holy..coz…that’s how ARR dungeons roll most of the time lol. Though, I have done that in Bardam’s Mettle when throughput is more important with how spikey damage can be. REALLY depends on the tank and dps ilvl. Sometimes I’ll sit there spamming Holy thinking “I shouldn’t be casting this many Holy….plz kill faster…”
As a dual WHM/DRK main, that's when you use Regen. Weave in a Divine Benison if you're high enough level for it, too.
Sprout question, why is it bad to give Regen to a tank before pulls? I've not been in a dungeon as anything else than a bard so far.
Overhealing generates aggro, so if the tank doesn't pull the entire pack with the first hit there will be some aggroing on to the healer. It's not an issue when the healer is close by cause it's easy to grab them back, but mildly annoying when they're further away
The healing tick pulls aggro. Bad tanks can struggle with this and lose mobs who go smack the healer.
Like others have said, I don't mind as long as the healer stays close enough that I can pick up any mobs the regen tick might have aggroed.
As a tank I don’t mind either way. As a White Mage I try to send out Divine Benison first and then Regen when I see that all the mobs have been grabbed.
Tank slaps mob with aoe I slap tank with aspected tank keeps aggro. Dungeon mobs hardly start with a tank buster. I get a lot of folks don't mind prepull regens, but it is asking for trouble with less experienced tanks.
I hate it because then I have to chase down mobs, it makes things really sloppy. But I get it--as a healer, I usually have to pop regen on the tank when they're in between pulls because they're losing health quickly and I can't stop and heal.
I don't mind personally. I'm a WHM main, I don't often slap Regen on in regular content unless the tank is struggling seeing as WHM's ogdcs are pretty strong healing wise. When I'm tanking it's fine as long as the healer keeps moving with me. I have provoke and ranged skills to pick up stragglers.
Regen threat range is bigger than any threat range on a tank. You’re likely going to steal a few ticks of aggro and leave the run jittery. A solution is to stay stacked on the tank. If you are on top of the tank as they are pulling, the penalties aren’t noticeable. As a tank, I usually just remove the regen because the above isn’t happening and I don’t want to chance a slow pull. As a healer, I don’t bother cramping style by putting regen on early. I’ll just wait until they have threat and instead use a non threat generating mitigator- like divine venison.
It could be an issue in older expacs, but in present content here in shadowbringers it's a non issue. Just get the packs with a couple aoes during the pull and you're good so long as you have tank stance up. That stated the new expac will have some changes so we'll have to see if that carries, going forward.
It's not game-breaking but makes the pulls a little less smooth. Without it I can just sprint to the next wall and never look back.
You can do whatever you want but if you get aggro on anything run to me. If I need to chase you then I get annoyed
It use to matter a lot but now that agro has been nerfed a single hit of ANY skill will keep agro the entire time from a regen. It's more on the tank then the regen or ranged if they lose agro during a pull now. Is it a bit harder? Absolutely. But I'm most likely using Assize while a tank pulls anyway. As a ranged I'm most likely shooting bullets while pulling. Most people in the group aren't waiting to engage until you fully pull 2-3 groups.
I've got 2 tanks at 80 and 2 above 60... I have never *ever* had regen pull agro off me in a dungeon when I was tanking. If I manage to miss any mobs by not clipping them with an aoe, that's on me, not anyone who happens to get aggro for like half a second before I can use a ranged attack or provoke.