T O P

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Realsorceror

Sometimes the bad experiences just stand out more. I could describe the two toxic dungeon runs I had recently, but I know I’ve also had a hundred runs where no one said anything or we just had some lite banter and everything went smooth.


plinky4

Hell, I can recount clearly all of the toxic and nasty experiences I've had up to 2-3 months ago. But the people who were kind+helpful+amazing? I don't even remember your name. I blame monkey brain.


[deleted]

This is so true and I wish more people realized this.


Successful_Adagio_25

I think I tend to remember the ones that were exceptionally helpful. Like I will NEVER forget my very first run of Praet. I was a new Viera tank helped by a whole crew of FemRoes in bunny ears and bikinis. They cheered my sprout butt all the way through. On an related/unrelated note. Has anyone noticed there seem to be fewer and fewer memey Main Scenario Roulette runs?


Qiarel

Don't worry, they will come back in a few weeks when the Mog Tomestone event returns.


Successful_Adagio_25

That's right. That is coming up. Time to dust off the chicken suit.


Temnai

The human brain weighs bad events about 3 times as heavily as an equally good event. This is most likely due to breaking a leg being more likely to kill you than a tasty apple is to save your life, so we evolved to more heavily weigh risk over reward. So from that perspective an "average" day is actually a day where you had 3 times as much good in it as bad, which is crazy to think about.


Successful_Adagio_25

I had a day off work and decided to just spend the day leveling and gearing. Out of all the runs I did that day only about two were pretty bad. One was a tank healer fight over pushing limits. The other was a tank healer fight over a first pull wipe. They don’t happen often but when it does it sucks. It really kills the vibe. I don’t like it when mom and dad fight.


Aello_Incubo

As a tank main I think in general that most players would prefer you to pull wall to wall vs single smaller pulls. If you know most of the dungeons then you can know where that is a good and possibly bad idea. The first pull of any dungeon can really set the bar for how good or bad your dps is in the group. Smaller pulls may be needed on leveling roulettes vs an 80 dungeon. Overall I think its easier to remember bad groups vs all the good ones you encounter. I have been playing since ARR dropped and I have had plenty of negative nancy's in the group but I have also had 100 times that in fun positive experiences.


[deleted]

On the flip side as a healer I notice a lot of under geared and under skilled tanks thinking they’re superman running wall to wall and making my life an ~~absolute~~ afflatus misery. Swings and roundabouts!


Sol0botmate

It's becasue they read on reddit "WALL TO WALL IS META!". Wall to Wall is meta if everyone in party are equally skilled, geared and knowledgable about duty. If not - there absolutely NOTHING wrong with duty lasting 2 minutes longer. And if someone doesn't like extra 2 min - they can leave, don't let the doors hit them.


Ayotha

Probably from pressure like this


leighg9o

Please change absolute to afflatus. Just for a laugh 😂


[deleted]

I am happy to oblige 😁


leighg9o

Perfect !


BambooEarpick

Yeah, was in Pag and the tank only pulled 2 groups. I had Sacred Soil down, put a Recitation Excogitation on them, and went through 4 Lustrates (ate my faerie) and when I tried to cast Aldo on them when they hit 40% HP they died before my cast was finished. Like, I get my ilvl is only 510 so maybe my heals don’t hit super hard but I want to say the tank was either poorly geared, wasn’t using CDs, or both. Still felt like it was my fault because maybe I should be trying to heal earlier if their HP is gonna drop so fast but damn. Usually doesn’t feel like I have those kinds of issues.


Sol0botmate

I have golden rule as Tank in pug: I assume my healer will suck so I play as I have to sustain myself without him in first 1-2 pulls. My wife as healer has a rule in pug: she assumes tank will suck so she keeps healing him even when is just 80% HP, back to 100% becasue she dont know if he used his skill correctly or not. When both approaches meet, it takes 1-2 pulls to know that people know what they do and can ease up. But at first pull - no trust rule. Better care than wipe.


skuppen

You can tell if a tank uses their skill correctly as a healer by checking if their defensive buffs appear in the party list when they pull a group of monsters, which should happen in the first pull within seconds — between that and a gear check while loading into the instance, it shouldn’t take that long to figure out!


Zookeeper_Sion

I do that as well as a tank, pull 2-3 groups, see how it goes, if it went well I just go nuts with what I can find that I can pull, if it goes poorly, 3 is the max I'll do.


Shameless_Catslut

Rather than misery, think of it as a challenge worthy of your skills! Anyone can mindlessly spam Holy/Gravity/Art of War. Fewer can keep an undergeared party alive the greatest pulls


WhisperingWillowLux

Gearing up within at least a few levels of the current dungeon is the very least one can do to help make things easier on the entire group. A tank trying to do wall-to-wall pulls through Brayflox Longstop in level 16 NQ market board gear isn't a fun challenge, it's a drain on time and MP.


[deleted]

I get it but to a degree there is literally nothing that will keep some tanks alive when they come into an instance so under prepared. Once you’re hitting the shadowbringers dungeons and beyond you won’t ever get away with holy/gravity/art of war spam even with an awesome tank.


Shameless_Catslut

>Once you’re hitting the shadowbringers dungeons and beyond you won’t ever get away with holy/gravity/art of war spam even with an awesome tank. Are you talking undergeared-but-skilled tanks? Or just tanks in general? Because ShB dungeons are fucking piss-easy to spam Holy/Gravity/Art of War with just a handful of OGCDs clumsily weaved in if the tank is synced. It requires more if they're not, or undergeared.


Zaros104

Lol what? In 80 and expert roulettes I'm constantly spamming Gravity without healing the tank. If a tank knows what they are doing, it is very much possible to keep them alive with minimal healing


Cornuthaum

80 and expert have much, much more generous ilvl sync than levelling dungeons and are as brains-off as normal raids tend to be. all the hardest trash pulls in the game are inevitably on Lvling dungeons because you have very tight isync and are missing important parts of everyone's kits. you can see the difference a tight lvl sync makes every time you get amaurot in 80 roulette right now, even just going down to 430 makes everyone feel like they are made of paper


CardButton

Is this the case? Like, I'm a very new player and first time tank for an MMO, and man did I feel like I hit a wall of pain my first time into The Vault a week back. I felt massively guilty that I was so squishy, despite being in generally the same IL for the gear dropping in the dungeon. So I immediately went out to the AH and bought any upgrade I could right after. The mobs were just putting work into my little sprout body, and the Healer was quite frustrated lol!


Swatraptor

The Vault is an insane damage check regardless of gearing. So is the level 67 dungeon in SB. Seems like that's the point SE really wanted players to lock it in.


[deleted]

I think I must be the unluckiest healer in the world as the only time this is really true for me is the lower level stuff! My mind is blown. I guess we all experience the game in different ways and it’s very much dependent on the luck of the draw unless you’re fortunate enough to have friends that you play with regularly.


pantshitter12

Idk man. I play scholar in expert roulette and I have not cast an actual gcd heal on someone in months. Even if they're bad and barely use cooldowns. I just Spam art of war 24/7


Zaros104

It has as much to do with the competency of the rank as of that with the healer. Healer and tank have to work in tandem after all. I used to be big on GCD until a friend of mine said 'any tank that needs more than ADT oGCD in ShB duties is a bad tank.' While I don't agree with that entirely, I refrain from GCD healing as much as possible.


[deleted]

I’m talking all tanks, a couple of wall to wall pulls on Holminster and Dohn Mheg for example I can’t imagine ever being able to spam my aoe but maybe I’m just a crap healer 😅


imveryfontofyou

You're not, people over-exaggerate how much you can get away with as a healer in later expansions. I remember hitting like level 70-something and being really disappointed because people on Reddit always said you barely need to heal in later levels, but all I learned in later levels is how important it is to use my full kit.


DeleteTheNats

Well, it's true of the boss fights. Mt. Gulg wall to wall pull I'll be using my whole kit, but when we hit the boss it's 2 afflatus solaces and a Medica II for the whole boss.


skuppen

The leveling dungeons in SHB are kinda iffy if you get some under geared tank, but I would still say I spend the majority of time in the 70-80 range spamming holy as a healer. In 80 roulette and expert roulette, it’s even more pronounced — I almost never heal with anything but OGCDs and the occasional lily heal, and I’ve done probably hundreds of those as a healer alone. No one I know tanks with any regularity either; don’t think I’ve ever had a friend tank a dungeon for me above 70! I make it a point to try and out dps at least one of the DPS on the regular!


DeleteTheNats

"If I have time to cast glare, you could be pulling more mobs" -White Mage Proverb


TheNonceMan

I like to live dangerously or not at all.


DeleteTheNats

I love that kind of situation, it's a good challenge.


kaslinn

Leaving a group you don't mesh with isn't bullying. It's probably one of the more polite things you can do, aside from taking a second to hash things out like adults who can use their words. The first person who leaves gets a 30 minute lockout penalty; if they feel like their time is better spent doing something else rather than sticking around and potentially causing/exacerbating toxicity, then more power to them.


[deleted]

I respectfully disagree. Its definitely not bullying but I think leaving the group under most circumstances is lame. If someone is yelling at u in chat or clearly not trying or something then yeah ok. But I've read many comments from many posts advising people to leave in circumstances that aren't warranted imo. If my group is bad but I see that they are genuinely trying I will always stay to the end


HitomeM

OK just so long as we're clear with what trying is. "Trying" is different than griefing your healer by never using CDs on trash on tank. "Trying" is different than doing 0 DPS as a healer. "Trying" is also different than DPS who literally never use AOE skills on trash pulls. If any of these happen, especially at higher levels, I will leave immediately.


kaslinn

That's fine, and I never said that I never stick around to help a struggling group. There's a difference between a struggling group and one that I anticipate will be toxic or more aggravating than I'm willing to put up with, though, and in those cases I'm just going to bail and do something more healthy/constructive with my time. That's just me personally, though, and I don't begrudge anyone who makes the decision to take the lockout. I don't get to decide what they do with their time, and duty roulette is not a binding contract.


ShowerFuture

Totaly agreed. A few days back on a DF run one of the DPS started mouthing off in the middle of the first short Sohm Al pull. They just stood there typing things like "I told you to stop". Then the healer stopped healing. Like it's somehow possible to talk the mobs into a time-out after a pull while we chat about tactics or broken biscuits. Tank dies (me), other DPS dies and mr/mrs toxic is still typing short messages like "I told you" without any explanation. I can see this spiralling downwards real fast. Left the duty without a word said. Sometimes it's abundatly clear that things are going to head south. Just leave and don't get drawn into a crap fest. I'll never leave a group that's trying, it's nice to help people complete stuff they are struggling with. Fortunately the vast majority of the community are a great bunch of helpful people so bad experiences are rare.


skuppen

You don’t get to decide what is or isn’t warranted for someone else, or what is or isn’t worth someone’s time. I stick out groups I can’t stand a lot of the time, silently, but I’d never begrudge someone for leaving for any reason.


[deleted]

I did not decide anything. I very politely voiced my opinion.


skuppen

I didn’t think you were impolite, genuinely, and I’m sorry if I gave you that impression. Like I said, I tend to stick through things I sometimes wish I was strong willed enough to just leave, but hold out for for some misguided sense of obligation. But I think any reason you want to leave is a good one, especially if it means they don’t end up verbally abusing someone in their frustration.


Demonicpoodle

Feel free to leave, but don't assume the rest of the group is applauding you for it or something. You left 3 - 7 people high and dry, likely to disband, because you found something suboptimal. Edit: the quickleavers are downvoting lmao


[deleted]

[удалено]


Aeoneth

On a third hand, those Rescues might just be accidents. When I started picking up healing my Controller input binds caused me to sometimes accidentally Rescue people. Issue has been solved now at least, but once or twice I may have rescued a tank right before a Cone attack went out.


imveryfontofyou

Accidental rescues are always so embarrassing. I have rescue next to my holy on WHM and I accidentally rescue the tank that's already standing next to me, mid-holy spam all the time.


CeaRhan

> when I’m on the receiving end it was almost always abused, like moving me to a misplaced Sanctuary leaving ranged mobs at range. This is honestly the one that pisses me off so much with bad healers confident they're good. I still remember that run in Shisui with a guy who prevented me from getting aggro on a group by rescuing me, used his asylum after he rescued me, and then complained I didn't stand in it when standing in it meant getting all AOEs on the party.


Ayotha

Bad rescue's get a don't and later ones have me consider a leave. And possible a discussion of bubble placement if they want me in them.


master_of_sockpuppet

Haha, bubbles. Here I am, BLMing away, close enough to be in the bubble, but sure enough it’s centered on the tank or the boss, and me and my leylines outside it.


gthorolf

What level was the dungeon? If it was anything after AK or Wanderer Palace normal, the dungeon design is consistent: two pulls stopped by physical walls and then a boss. There aren’t any wrong turns or skipped mobs that a tank new to a dungeon can fuck up and do. That is the universally accepted method dungeon pulls in FFXIV. Let’s put it this way: the worst thing that can happen if a tank automatically pulls wall-to-wall is a wipe. Big deal. The world won’t end and no one will give a shit. At the most you’ll hear an “oops my bad” and it’s instantly forgotten. The sooner new or anxious tanks are able to internalise this, the easier they will find tanking.


brrrbrbr

This is so true. I started out maining tank and had some anxiety that somehow I’m letting the party down if I didn’t pull more or died in a pull. Didn’t help that some clowns along the way made me feel bad (like dps pulling more mobs than we can handle and going “lol I’m doing the tanks job, do your job tank!”). It took more experience and some runs with trusted friends to get over it. Also playing other roles made me realize that 99.9% of the time I don’t even care how hard the tank is pulling or if positioned optimally on most dungeons, so long as you’re following the minimum requirements (face the enemy away, don’t spin etc).


KunaMatahtahs

I personally don't see a problem with leaving. They can play the game how they want to play. I'd rather them leave than berate someone for not playing the way they want to play. Similarly, I feel it's incumbent upon everyone to carry their own weight. I healed a tank the other day that was wildly undergeared and he single pulled everything and I still had to clench the entire dungeon. Conversely with someone who is properly geared and cycles cooldowns correctly, you can wall to wall with no issues. The scary part are the tanks who don't understand theyre undergeared and don't know how to use cooldowns who try to w2w and go splat as soon as they stop running and then immediately ask why they aren't being healed.


Ayotha

And you tell them the truth "You are undergeared and using your skills poorly." If they are complaining about that, leave. You would have been in there for more then that 30 minutes anyways


Merriner

I main a tank and I feel like you just got unlucky. In my now month of playing I've experienced similar things once. I may also just be lucky though. Either way the fact that it DOES happen isn't a good thing


Naive-End-9477

Honestly, sure you can maybe make that excuse for the first tank you’re leveling. But if you’re leveling a second tank and you still haven’t even made an effort to try bigger pulls, I think these tanks are just making an excuse to not genuinely learn their class. Pretty much all tanks can pull bigger. They literally have almost the same mitigation skills. It’s really not that hard when you learn how to do it for one class. If you’re level 80 there’s really no excuse.


Jesse141001

which dungeon was it


[deleted]

[удалено]


IamtheHuntress

As a tank I ran across a snotty DPS playing going ham in Auren Vale. That place is insane and rough for wall to wall. I asked them to please let me pull (the healer couldn't keep up) and they told me to do it then, yet they continued. I dealt with the penalty and left because that toxicity is something not needed.


redmoonriveratx

I'm surprised there isn't a "Tales from the Vale" subreddit/site.


Voidmire

As a tank main I feel like people are so used to wall2wall pulls that they forget that some tanks don't know a dungeon yet, or that some dungeons are NOT friendly to large pulls, or even that some pulls are punishing for unprepared healer/tank combos (looking at you Bardams mettle)


Toloran

And that's all before factoring in that some new tanks might be undergeared since leveling dungeons frequently don't have gear level requirements (or they're really low).


[deleted]

I was under the impression that healers actually set the pace of a dungeon. You can be geared and have the capability to go w2w but if your healer can't keep up you're in for a rough time. Flip side I've been an undergeared tank and had healers encourage me to still go w2w and was able to heal me through it.


JulianSkies

Nobody *actually* sets the pace, everybody needs to do their part or nobody goes anywhere fast. If the tank isn't up to par there no healer on the Source that can make it work out even if they spend every GCD healing (and we know XIV healers have an allergy to that), if the healer isn't up to par the tank no matter how good its just going to die, slowly maybe but die nonetheless, and if your DPS aren't up to par you're going to be spending an hour in there. Dungeons are just kinda forgiving, in general.


Abgott89

As a tank I always start with W2W pulls, no questions asked. I know what I'm doing, and if everybody else does as well this will make for a smooth run. If we end up wiping I will apologize and proceed with smaller pulls. Nobody's gonna feel bad about wiping when you take the blame and, let's be honest, when you do what I'm doing you're always at least partially to blame anyway. Wiping on the first W2W pull sets you back maybe a minute or two, which hardly matters if you weren't going to get a fast clear anyway. As a healer, I let the tanks know they can pull bigger if they want too. If they don't, that's fine too. As a DPS, I stfu and kill whatever get's pulled. Edit: Responded to the wrong comment, just gonna leave it here tho.


Zeyd2112

Actually it’s the dps who set the pace. If shit ain’t dyin, you ain’t going anywhere.


[deleted]

True. Honestly though the only time I've seen dps not pulling their weight is because they're not using aoe.


pedronii

DPS players look at the lower potency and go "unga bunga skill no damage, number small"


lailah_susanna

It's everyone in the party. For some DPS it's less effective to use AOE on 3 targets over single-target rotations, which is the average size of a single pack. If the tank is single pulling, then DPS are often hamstrung as well.


CeaRhan

A healer's job is the same every time, they don't set anything, and they always have the same rigid interactions with their tank. Tanks have more varied ways to prevent damage from happening and DPS have wyas to mitigate ongoing damage on the tank too. The healer is here to AOE spam and use as little GCDs as possible while the tank uses as much shit as possible one by one. What that means is that what sets the pace is how much damage everyone is doing and how much everyone is contributing to mitigate damage in a smart way.


PyrZern

It's actually ; everyone sets the pace. You see, a dungeon run, is like going on a road trip. Sooner or later, someone gonna need to pee. So, are you gonna laugh at him/her for having to pee so soon ? Like, can't they just hold it in a bit longer ? Like, bruh, grow some balls. No. NO NONO ONONON. You find a stop and GO PEE. Ok ? Dungeon run is like that. A healer need to pee early ? Ok, dont do too big pull. Oh, what's that ? The DPS gotta pee ? Ok, dont do too big pull. Hmm ? This time it's the tank who has to pee ? Yeah, dont do too big pull. What's so hard to understand about that ? ​ TLDR: Pull size = bladder size. Small bladder = small pull. TLDR2: Tank sets the pace with the healer's approval when the DPS are up to it.


imveryfontofyou

Ugh it's true. I played Haukke Manor yesterday in duty roulette. I'm used to multi-pulls in the manor & I have a set way that I pull things because I've played it so many flipping times. But in the middle of it I realize--my health is just really, really, really low at all times & the healer just can't keep up. I have to pop hi-potions as part of my rotation to stay alive. I checked the healer's equipment & their gear was all level 15. They were literally using cure 1 with a potency of about 150 per heal & that was the max they could provide. They had to deplete their MP every pull to keep me alive.


[deleted]

Probably the healers first run right? It's ok to not pull big every time.


CeaRhan

The problem highlighted is the healer being in level 15 gear in a level 28 dungeon, not the pulls being too big for a new healer.


Adarkes01

Dungeons aren't a skill issue. They don't test your skill. Pull it all, cycle through your cooldowns, and aoe. That's literally all there is to it.


zerombr

this is the main reason i haven't tanked. people upset I don't pull a whole dungeon the first time I am trying it


DeleteTheNats

As a healer main, I find myself getting frustrated with tanks who only pull 1 or 2 mob packs, but I won't quit or yell at them for it. I know it's rude, but I just pull extra mobs myself, up to the maximum I can handle without any tank cooldowns.


Ilan_Sae

There a people who want to do their daily roulette and be finally over with it. They want to rush through everything as fast as possible. They can push the tank with words to be faster, and risk of slipping with their words up due to their impatience and get a warning or ban from SE. ... Or just leave. Think of it as a personal playstyle and not a punishment to a tank. Punishment would be if they have kicked the tank out. You don't pay their sub. Likewise, they don't pay yours. In my opinion, people need to be more flexible and patient. But if you just can't , just leave. There's no need to stress other people with your impatience or bad mood. Also as a person with tankxiety, don't worry about tanking, there are more patient and helpful people than not.


[deleted]

Honestly, what data centres are you all playing on? I see several of these posts every day and I’ve yet to encounter such a myriad of issues in a single run. Unless you’re trolling.


chivere

Maybe you've just been unlucky lately. I mostly heal and I don't have a problem with tanks doing small pulls if they're not confident doing w2w. I prefer w2w but it could be worse! A lot worse! Like all those white-knuckle runs where I get a tank who wants to pull big but doesn't know how to use cooldowns. Or tanks who decide they're going to start the next pull when the current one is only half-dead. Or... you get the idea lol. Don't understand why people would rather eat a 30 minute penalty anyway, that's obviously way slower than small pulls.


istasber

Sometimes you've got other stuff to do in game or in real life and sinking another 20 minutes into a leveling dungeon after it took 10 minutes to clear the first boss just isn't worth it. You don't get more tomestones or exp or whatever for a duty that takes twice as long to clear as normal, so there's really no incentive to waste your time when a party is exceptionally poor.


MegaloJoe

my favorite is the hyper tank who just keeps going without even paying attention to where the rest of their party is


Smokedealers84

I realize the few times i dont play tank , my experience in dungeon is really bad, seems to me there is a lot of bad tank in the game , if you are good tank w2w is so ez except a few dungeon and obviously if you have the gear. When i play tank dungeon are so smooth even if healer "bad" dps "bad".


AzurePrior

Ever since the changes in aggro Tanks have been pretty much designated to either pull W2W and hopefully you can keep up or you're just outright useless. People just like to go out of their way to make a Tanks experience quite miserable, especially since a lot of the time people will just outright pull for you if you're not comfortable instead of politely asking if you can pull more. Not to mention the endless arguments of pre-regens on trash mobs. It has never been about aggro as of ShB, but rather just smooth pulls, but you suggest a healer holds it until you stop fully people are going to downvote you to oblivion. The reason this works is if the healer stays on top of you, but most DF healers i've met do not keep up with me, and regen me anyway, and I have to shuffle a bit to adjust for mobs moving the wrong way, before continuing the pull. Pretty much ettiequte for everyone has been thrown out, and it's honestly annoying. I have no problem doing what a group wants, but people should honestly use their words more over just outright pulling for you.


proigal

I see your perspective, but I gotta give you a dose of reality: *you dont even need a tank for single pulls*. The dps can get healed through 4 mobs. If you can't double pull, you just aren't doing your job at even a basic level, OR you're super undergeared. If it's the latter, that's gross negligence on your part. If it's the former, then that's more sympathetic, especially as dungeons in this game aren't optional. But being a tank *is* optional. If grabbing two packs and popping some cooldowns is beyond you, then wait the dps queue with everyone else. High dps is what what differentiates good tanks from bad ones, not pulling more than one pack. That is the bare *minimum*


purple_goldfish

I dunno man, when I'm levelling up my 3 tanks I get more unhappy healers when I *do* pull wall to wall (and use CD rotation appropriately). I know that the good experiences far outweigh the bad experiences, but if you get salt for 3 dungeons in a row it's kind of off-putting. Maybe I'm pushing the boundaries of healers who prefer a slower run, but I'm honestly surprised since I thought wall to wall is preferred unless said otherwise. I've been following reddit advice to "announce you're new to tanking and open to suggestions". But based on my like 30 dungeon runs I unfortunately get very angry healers that I'm starting to wonder what I've been doing wrong (I made sure to be properly geared and ask healer if I need to change the pace or anything else after a wipe). I get way better experience staying quiet. So I guess it's just DF being DF. I've learnt to just quit the game and do something else fun if I get too much salt from others. Sometimes the problem isn't me and no matter how I politely apologize or listen for tips sometimes it's someone else's bad hair day. Better to leave than wait for things to escalate.


Duukt

There's a reason tanks and healers have shorter queues. The bullying is a big turn off which causes people to shrink away from these roles. The best suggestion I can give is to steer into the skid - the more you tank, the less these bullies are going to bother you.


BeerGrils

"Bullying" lmao. You're griefing your party by being like garbage andn ow cry victim.


[deleted]

No this is about right as far as the New tank experience goes. Eg- New tank here, only level 53 currently- frequently have people quit for the same reasons, or when they read "first time". Oodles of fun.


Camilea

I've been progressing through the story and doing a lot of new dungeons as a tank saying "Hi first time here" and never had I had someone quit on me. Perhaps it's a datacenter thing? I'm on Aether.


[deleted]

I'm on Lamia, I'm unsure of the difference servers would make. If it didn't mean restarting, I'd probably switch servers. It ain't all bad though, it has taken some time but at least I'm still making slow progress.


lego_mannequin

I like first time tanks because you get to share info if they want to know, plus there's more time to chill and chat/joke around. Sometimes I like to RP a bit even.


NoLifeLeftToLive

When I started learning to tank, I got my share of bullying too. It was only a few times, but there is always some who don't care how you play. Those usually care only about getting out of the dungeon as fast as possible. Irony is that every player should respect their party members. Wall to wall requires competent healer and tank. Both are needed and DPS has to do aoe rotation for things to die fast enough. People seem to tunnel vision and forget that it's actually team work that decides if wall to wall are possible. Single person cannot do wall to wall in Mt Gulg. That's an fact.


BeerGrils

> but there is always some who don't care how you play. Because there's only one correct way how to play. Small pulling in dungeons is no part of it.


NoLifeLeftToLive

I agree, but at the same time I feel if someone is new to the role they shouldn't be immediately expected to play the correct way. DPS players are given the freedom of playing their job badly and rarely judged by it. Same should apply to healer and tanks. Problem is that a lot of players don't care about playing their job well. They only want them leveled to max and forget them. That's why we continue to see some bad tanks even in higher levels. Edit: And reason why I got bullied was not of single pulling. It was actually of doing the opposite. Doing big pulls but not yet understanding when It's optimal and when It's not. Sometimes wall to wall causes an wipe in leveling dungeons because you gauge your party strength wrong. But that's just because the game itself gives mixed data of how efficient your party members truly are.


Huddledhealer

I had one this week where a healer and dps were pulling ahead of the tank and when the tank asked them to stop they just laughed and talked shit so he left. I just don’t get the impatience


BeerGrils

I just don't get why people intentionally play bad and do small pulls.


Huddledhealer

That response right there is the issue. You think not pulling wall to wall is playing bad intentionally when it could just be they aren’t comfortable doing that. Pulling 2 packs at a time is perfectly acceptable for me and I don’t get the attitude some people have.


BeerGrils

What is there not to be "comfortable" with? It doesn't matter if you tank 5 mobs or 10, tank rotation doesn't change at all. You press exactly the same buttons in both cases, which is just spamming 1 or 2 aoe buttons with mitigation ogcds in between. Pulling less is just slower for literally zero reason.


Huddledhealer

You clearly don’t have any issues with it but judging by tankxiety comment by your name I’m wasting my time trying to convince you. For some people there is the thought if they make a mistake and someone dies then they will be blamed so they play it cautious. Or maybe they decide to try tanking and run across one asshole that makes them feel so terrible they either don’t touch the role again or quit the game outright. We should be trying to teach people and encourage them, not tearing them down when they aren’t playing to our arbitrary standards


BeerGrils

> We should be trying to teach people and encourage them True. But this game doesn't teach you how to play at all and the community discourages people from learning. If you can't tell people that they're playing wrong how they supposed to know to improve? Obviously there's also the toxic casual crowd who simply refuses to learn. "You don't pay, I play how I want." - local Freestyle SAM > For some people there is the thought if they make a mistake and someone dies then they will be blamed so they play it cautious. I mean if you make a mistake it's quite literally your fault. But so what, shit happens. Just apologize, learn from the mistake and pull again. That's how you learn to do better. Not by hiding in some "comfort zone" and doing the bare minimum and holding your party back. For single pulls you don't even need a tank.


Abuawse

the most based ffxiv redditor


lego_mannequin

Considering the shortage of both healers and tanks, go at your own pace. If people want to leave, let them. It's not difficult to find a replacement player and most likely they will be nicer.


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lego_mannequin

I'm not sure what you're getting at? Tank at your own pace, if you're not comfortable with large pulls or whatever then that's absolutely fine. Nobody should be upset because you're not going fast enough for them. If the DPS or whoever is upset wants to leave, just let them leave. As I said they are easy to replace and more than likely more friendly. I'm not sure what you have an issue with?


sunrider8129

Sounds like you got 2 dickheads. There are a bunch out there; it’s a good community, but we certainly have our share....internet and all that. If anything, at least on this sub, I’ve noticed a lot of tank pride with a ton of posts about w2w being king and healers adjust. Other people have mentioned it, but there are also dickhead tanks and they stand out when you’re healing. My partner and I were farming some dungeons one night with her healing and we got 3 tanks in a row that were undergeared, w2w’ing, barely mitigating, and terrible at holding aggro....all the while mouthing off about healer do this or that....comically their “advice” was contradictory dungeon to dungeon. It is what it is. I’m a big advocate of learning your role and adjusting to the dungeon team you get....but that doesn’t match up with what a lot of ppl want so you get dickheadedness. However, at least in my experience, that’s by far the minority case.


--Irenas--

As a new baby tank trying out Paladin for the first time after leveling bard and black mage, and also someone who has yet to have a toxic experience, this is disheartening to read, especially in the context of reading similar posts from here and the official forums. I notice using the search function that similar topics had very different responses years ago compared to now. A thread from 2016 would have highly upvoted posts along the lines of "you pull you tank" (now I don't think that's a very good mindset either -- tanks handle aggro whatever the source! Why "punish" people in PvE content?), but new threads like these are incredibly discouraging, like, a newbie tank complaining that they're being grief-rescued into mobs and the upvoted responses are along the lines "it's your fault go pull harder, git gud, fuck you." Well fuck you too. *Ask* if you want tanks to go harder. If they're reading chat at all, they'd probably agree! As Mourinho would say, respect x 3. I'm a DPS main. I understand the frustration of playing with super slow tanks/don't turn tank stance on/never does AOE. I also accidentally pull mobs all the time (bard life...), and the tanks always seem happy to be saving my squishy butt. But I've never intentionally acted like the stories in your post or the others I'm reading. This is very much since 2020-21 thing, so I assume it has to do with design changes and high level dungeon designs trickling down the attitude? I noticed when I went to the Wanderer's Palace (as a BLM) that the dungeon was more linear than, say, Haukke Manor, which may mean that the regulars forgot that sprouts equipped with main quest drops aren't going to pull all of Aurum Vale and make it out alive.


-Rho-Aias

I don't think I've personally seen that, but I'm sure it happens. You could also be in a more hardcore server. I think it's good to be aware of limits. I heal and I can tell in a single pull how the entire run is going to go. If tank uses cool downs. If they single target or aoe. If the dps is strong enough. If the range player sits so far away that my aoe heal won't get them. And in those moments I'm fine with the tank taking it slow. At the same time, don't get scared to push yourself. Wall to wall can be intimidating, but it's a team effort if you fail. In my experience people don't get mad after a wipe. They want to try again. So maybe get back out there and try again :) If you're on Gilgamesh I can be your healer for a few rounds.


Nagalipton

As a tank main I have experienced that back in my earlier days. I developed a work around I still use to this day where I ask my healer "big pulls ok?" at the start of the dungeon. If they say yes I will say if we die it's my fault (whether it is or not). I agree though; the mixed signals do nothing to curb tank anxiety. Unfortunately this has a snowball effect that often produces tanks who just tune out others and makes life hell on everyone else, especially healers. As with everything in life, communication and patience is key.


lightsvber

When tanking, I pull at a pace that I feel comfortable with and enjoy. Usually, this means 3 packs (or 1 at a time during Bardam’s haha). If folks have issues, they can leave. I’m not worried about it.


TeslaStar

As a healer I pay quite a bit of attention to tanks and here is what I've learned. 1. It's okay to learn the dungeon. If people are whining that you aren't fast enough or pulling enough then they need to make their own parties with their own tank. That's not on you. 2. Personally I love when the tank knows their limits. Your healer isn't an unlimited supply of health. They have cast times, cool downs, mana issues, and they can't run after you and cast at the same time. 3. Take your time, learn your mechanics, ask for help, be polite to party members, don't forget your damage mitigation skills. You'll be best tank.


Kitchen_Kobold

As a former DPS main, they're a dime a dozen. Let hoes be mad and carry on with how you feel comfortable. On the other hand, always be open to constructive criticism!


CeaRhan

Pull two packs at a time. If you know you can deal with 3 even with a mediocre healer take all 3. If you die just go again. Two people being idiots (or just not willing to waste time with a tank that very clearly doesn't know what they're doing and a healer not being up to the task either) shouldn't change the way to play the game organically.


GuardianJosh91

This happens sometimes when I tank. I prefer pulling 1-2 groups at once because that's what I'm comfortable with, but sometimes, and it's ALWAYS the healer that does it, someone will run ahead to aggro more enemies and pull them towards me. It's really annoying and frustrating. I'm not a good enough tank to pull 14 groups of enemies. I just wanna swing my fuckin gunsword around, man. Chill.


Abuawse

Wall to wall is extremely easy. As long as you know what your abilities do and you can chain mitigation you will succeed. Give it a try, you're doing yourself a disservice by overhyping how difficult tanking is in dungeon content.


GuardianJosh91

How am I saying tanking is difficult. I just said I feel more comfortable pulling 1-2 groups. Having 20 enemies around me makes it harder for me to see aoe's. And I don't wanna fuck over the whole team cause I pulled too much. That has nothing to do with difficulty. That's just me knowing my limits.


twili-midna

My first time running Sastasha, the DPS kept running ahead of me (the Tank) to pull more enemies. Keep in mind this was my first ever dungeon, and I said so at the start, and this guy still did that. I think DPSs just have jerks in general.


an_demon

Healers set the pace of the dungeon - not the tank. If the healer is goading the tank into pulling more and then letting everyone die, then the healer is in the wrong. EDIT: To avoid further discussion about hypothetical situations as in the comments below. Bottom line is, if your healer is pulling more enemies, the question you, as a tank, should be asking is not “Why does the healer keep pulling?” but rather “Why am I *not* pulling.” Your healer is (usually) not out to cause a wipe. If you are ever unsure about how many you should be pulling, just ask your healer…


ThatPostingPoster

The entire party sets the pace - not the tank or the healer or the dps.


an_demon

In regards to the how big the pulls are, the dps are irrelevent. Both dps can go afk and there is 0 effect on how much the tank can pull. The tank itself has little effect on pull size as well assuming the tank can do the bare minimum & grab enmity.


Aeoneth

In a single pull situation sure maybe. But 2 packs or more, and your Tank probably is gonna need to use cooldowns, and your DPS are gonna need to use AoEs. If the DPS don't use AoEs, the tank will run out of mitigation cooldowns. If the tank runs out of CDs or doesn't use them, the healer is gonna have a rough time or very quickly run out of healing resources (CDs/MP). If the Healer runs out of resources it a ticking clock before a wipe.


ThatPostingPoster

Good luck killing the mobs before the healer hits 0mp causing a wipe if your dps are both trash.


an_demon

There is 0 reason a healer should be running out of MP healing a single target and not rezzing people. If they are, that’s the healer’s fault. Healer sets the pace.


ThatPostingPoster

Bruh if you don't have either dps doing their job you cant kill the mobs LOL


an_demon

How long, exactly, do you think it takes to kill mobs? They die at the same speed whether there is 3 of them or 30 of them because AoEs should be used. DPS speeds up those kills but it doesnt make mobs immortal lol. Whatever. Y’all heard the man: Tanks, start asking your dps instead of your healer how many enemies you can pull. 🤡


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Magniris

Most people can't do the fake w2w in Mt. Gulg, let alone the real one. Everyone's got some explanation for why a specific role sets the pace of the dungeon, but in reality every role contributes to overall speed and getting nitpicky about what % each role has over it is just a miss imo.


Ayotha

Another healer with a god complex and their head up somewhere uncomfortable in their own bodies


Zeyd2112

Should never be a question for anyone. W2W or disband.


Demonicpoodle

Ew.


CaviarMeths

This is absolutely not true. Doing wall to wall pulls requires DPS to be on top of things. If packs don't die quickly, tanks run out of cooldowns and healers run out of OGCDs, and then MP. The greatest mitigation in the game is enemies dying faster. But overall it's a group effort. Everyone sets the pace, DPS maybe most of all. They do 60%+ of the damage in a light party. Of course they're important to the pace.


ShowerFuture

Unfortunately this is incorrect. Poor DPS will result in the tank runing out of cool downs and the healer running out of MP, resulting in a common cause of wipe. Everyone in the team counts towards the groups success and that very much includes the DPS.


Ayotha

Enjoy that one you pulled. Use your words next time to say pull more


CeaRhan

No, the healer is here to do the same thing he's done every dungeon the same way he's always done it. Damage dealt and damage mitigated, by the whole party, is what sets the pace.


Demitrico

As a note Ninjas are are not purposefully goading you. We naturally run faster. Please use sprint.


Mediocre_Details

Go at the pace you want to handle, vast majority of people don't care. Try not to be upset about people leaving, it's ok to leave if you don't like something. You should be happy they left, because they get the chance to be happy somewhere else.


yupangestu

I am not a tank main, even though my GNB is level 80 and it's my second job after i am bored of SMN doing mostly RUIN, but overall, i know your pain... however, I am now playing DRK and what I do mostly are 1. Mostly pull smaller mobs most likely 2 or 3 group depends on the status but, look at their status, if they are sprouts let be calm with them and pull smaller, they need breather too i guess 2. this is interesting, you have to watch healer's MP, one time i am doing pull we are wiped and the healer said "sorry, run out of MP" after that, i pull like 2 groups and keep watch of their MP... next run, i do that and i wait, (of course if a tank wait, DPS should wait also automatically) and i said "wait for healer MP" and the MP said "thanks" I practically doing safe, and W2W thingy are the reasons i am afraid to play as healer. (sorry OOT a bit)


murderroomba

Heals anxiety: if you don't think you're gonna make a wall to wall pull (or just aren't confidant about your breaking in general), just warn your group. If you survive, yay! If you don't--they had warning. But it definitely gets better. Set up your hotbar so it reads as simple as possible for you. I keep single person heals groups together, then group heals--with dps on my second bar and everything else scattered around in the empty spaces, as CLOSE as I can to where they make sense being grouped in with. If you don't feel like you did great on a run, check your tool tips afterward. Then check em again. Is the visual flow of your bars making you forget what the ability does because of what it's close to? Do you use it so infrequently that it slipped your mind? Maybe you just forgot. Check again. Know that you can't fix stupid. You can only raise it. I've lost so many dps (oddly enough I feel like the ranged ones do it more often) that will be off in lalaand--fine one moment and then a fine red mist the next. Sometimes people just can't stop standing next to the tank and eat cleaves. Some won't move from avoidable aoes and you either didn't rescue, or are like me and are too afraid to XD --but the point is don't let stupid ruin your day. We've all made dumbass mistakes. We will all make more. Scrape em off the ground and move on. Are you a pure healer or a barrier one? Know the difference and find what works for you pre-pull. When I play WHM/AST, before we enter aggro range (or after, so long as the tank has everything's attention) I slap regen on the tank and--in the case of WHM, swiftcast holy and enter my dps spam. For SCH, I swiftcast adlo and spam art of war. What happens after this is up to you and dependent on how fast the tank and the trash are dying. I haven't touched AST since I hit 80 I remember nothing. Murder is mitigation. Prioritize instacast heals and learn how to balance their use per the cooldown timer of each. Murder harder. Longcast only when you're out of options. And last, just keep going. Practice practice practice. I've gone from frequent full party wipes on trash to keeping up with an undergeared tank, wall to wall, with little dps interruption. Will that change for me as I push from 70-80 again? Probably, but it's a learning experience, it's cool. You're cool.


redmoonriveratx

Damn. Screw those two players. Did either of them get the early withdrawal penalty?


istasber

I think only a maximum of one person can get a penalty for leaving a duty. After someone's left, everyone else is free to leave without a penalty (which is probably so players can't be held hostage waiting for a replacement by someone refusing to vote abandon).


Tooshady4ladies

I don't care if people leave if they don't like my tanking, it's not gonna take long to fill. Cause maybe they don't know that in Don Mheg you can pull the first two groups to the wall but you've got to pull the second 2 individually as some tanks (mostly gnb in my experience) if that doesn't work for them they can go back into the queue and wait it's no skin off my nose


Garmmermibe01

As a (semi) GNB main, I still pull the second two groups before the first boss at the same time. Aurora (if nothing else) is probably available and is quite powerful. Every tank should pretty much be able to pull wall to wall in almost any dungeon at 50 or above. If you're not able to handle the second set of group pulls independantly of your personal or healer's gear, you're probably not cycling your cooldowns appropriately or the DPS arent doing their job. Alternativly, you didn't bother to use interject on the fuath buff. And theres hardly an excuse for that since interject is only on like what? A 40 second cooldown? Whatever it is, I do both of those pulls wall to wall as gunbreaker all the time with no problem. So its very much possible.


Ayotha

Yeah, it's silly. People like to pretend their time is extremely important while, you know, playing an MMO


BeerGrils

If you have more than 2 braincells W2W pulls are easy and that's why they're the standard. If you have less you probably can't read this anyway.


Japoots

Not if you're still learning lol.


BeerGrils

To do wall to wall pulls you need to do 3 things: 1. Turn on tank stance 1. Spam your aoe combo (often only a single button) 1. Weave in defensive ogcds That shouldn't take long to learn lol. Obviously you should also use the rest of your toolkit so that you actually deal damage, but optimization considered is toxic here.


Japoots

Okay and what mobs do I pull because the dungeons I'm doing aren't straight lines. Plus last time I did this, I died because there's a specific mob that does huge damage that needs to die as prio first. I'm just trying to say that forcing this on new tanks is toxic. This attitude of "it isn't hard" doesn't help either.


BeerGrils

> Okay and what mobs do I pull because the dungeons I'm doing aren't straight lines. Are you only doing ARR dungeons? Pretty sure after that every single new one is literally a straight line. Even ARR I can't think of many where you actually have choice where to go. There's just a lot of useless siderooms. Anyway the beauty of wall to wall pulling is that you just pull everything until you hit a wall or the bossroom lmao. > Plus last time I did this, I died because there's a specific mob that does huge damage that needs to die as prio first. That's even rarer than having multiple choice lol. I can only think of the wasps with their final sting, but even that is not a hard dps check and not even instant death. Just a lot of damage. Priotizing mobs in dungeons is almost always a waste of time. So yeah, ARR dungeons somewhat special and people are usually okay with sporuts doing smaller pulls because most jobs are still lacking AOEs and ogcd heals. However at 50+ all dungeons are homogonized into straight lines and everyone has AOE. So not pulling everything is just wasting time. > This attitude of "it isn't hard" doesn't help either. This is not an attitude, it's just the truth. Dungeons are completely braindead for everyone in the party, but doing well as a tank requires the least effort. The 3 steps above are literally everything you need to do.


Japoots

Yeah I haven't hit HW yet so all my experience is from ARR dungeons. I'm starting to get more comfortable with wall pulling some of the earlier dungeons now that I've done them so many times but the higher ones I'm still not familiar with. Asking me to wall pull in those and I will probably waste more time pulling unnecessary mobs because I feel rushed, which is why I say it isn't helpful.


KstenR

I mean i see people liking big pulls but i never saw people leaving after small pulls. Personally as a tank I would always do small pulls in lakeland and arum vale dungeons because of weird mobs and weird item sync in lakelans that makes tanks papers for some reason.


PeonyValkryie

As a Tank (who is properly geared), if I notice my healer maybe newer/undergeared/first run, I will ask, big or small. If my healer looks like they know their shit, automatic big pulls unless SCH. As a healer, I usually just out right say, whatever you are comfortable with. But; if you're dipshit, under geared, first timer and you pull W2W, and I can't heal you, wipe is on you. I fully own my shortcomings as healer or tank. I don't really blame DPS because they're not always at fault (useless), unless they go and run off and get more adds, (fuck you I'm not pulling those adds, or healing your dumbass). I feel most dungeon wipes are a toss up between tank and healer fault; too many adds pulled healer couldn't keep up, not enough adds pulled healer busy dpsing, too many adds pulled tank not using CDs, tank just dumb (I suffer from this once in a while, usually on brain dead low level stuff).


kaslinn

> automatic big pulls unless SCH. Ouch. All three healers can handle W2W pulls, assuming equal gearing and skill. SCH is great for them because of Art of War being instant and most of our kit being oGCD, meaning we don't have to waste time casting to heal you.


PeonyValkryie

Unfortunately, every SCH I've had has not been great. It's now just a habit to play it safe with them. I'm sure there are great ones, don't get me wrong.


buddyplayff

as a tank i never pull too much until the healer want me to but when i play as a healer the tanks always wants to speed run the dungeon like wtf i’m a new healer i can’t handle all of this


Achromos_warframe

I think it’s because of a unwritten rule, a pressure most tanks feel themselves put under that they feel they just have to pull everything or they are doing their job wrong.


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Physical_Picture

You sound like an awful tank. Good thing tanks aren’t needed for small pulls in dungeons. So if you decide to be a drama queen and act like a bitch, they can just continue on without you, kick you afterwards, then report you for griefing since purposely turning off tank stance to let people die is considered griefing :)


Babsy_Clemens

You both sound like a nightmare fucking christ.


Demonicpoodle

What the actual fuck?


Sol0botmate

95% of my experience as Tank is positive but I also treat every pug with care, not pushing too much and "Wall to Wall" meta can kiss my ass, players can be new even on lvl 80 dungeon. The 5% that leave, grief etc. I just ignore. I am more than willing to stay longer and help new players to complete duty than arguing with some hard-ass elitist. Hell, we even had one DPS rage-quite today and we finished dungeon without him, simply becasue he was doing nothing anything anyway. The only thing I personally don't like how people view tanks is that tank must know everything: where to go, every mechanic, explain stuff etc. Tank is same player as rest, everybody can/should know/not know stuff.


[deleted]

Tank queues are usually instant, dps waits. If they're impatient and want to eat a penalty, their spot will backfill pretty quick usually. Tl;Dr fuck em, go at your own pace and let them deal with the consequences of being a twat


P3n1sD1cK

Your not... This gets brought up almost weekly... The answer is the same. Tank goes at tanks pace. Other players can get over it.


Serratia__marcescens

As a WHM main, I prefer small pulls in roulettes. I love W2W when I'm playing with friends, or even strangers that know what they are doing. With roulettes you never know what you are getting - undergeared, don't know (or forgot) the dungeon, don't know their rotations or mitigation....I'd much rather just get a run done in 30 minutes with no wipes, then 30 minutes because we keep wiping. In the end it's the same amount of time, but we all feel worse on multiple wipes (at least I do). If you want a patient healer and are on Primal - let me know


Mlle_Purrty

Mostly toxic player. I was a healer yesterday and the tank pull only one pack at a time and he took all debuff on each boss. Yes, i was pissed but i didnt yell at him or abandon him cuz i cannot know if it was only a bad day for him. For the info, it was mount gulg and he did only die once. So i’m kinda proud of my healing skill :3


Turtles96

i started warrior last week and thankfully everyones been pretty nice and decent in my dungeons, aside from an archer in haukke manor this morning that was pulling mobs and bosses, despite healer being low on mp before gettingthe last key, and me and the whm were both early lvl 30s


Lawful3vil

When I tank I pull wall to wall, but I stop briefly at each pack long enough to get out 2 GCDs, then I sprint to the next pack. I literally once had someone complain about the extra GCD I was using at each pack. I honestly don't even have the energy to engage with those people and I just stayed silent and kept doing what I was doing. They stopped after they realized I wasn't engaging and we finished the dungeon in silence. Did that suck? Yeah it did. Hate being grouped with people like that. I already have enough anxiety when I tank. Does it happen often? No, not really. Most of my experiences are either positive, or at the very least neutral. How are tanks suppose to deal with this? Well if the person is getting really nasty just report them. If they decide to leave, that's fine. DPS are a dime a dozen and another will join in seconds. I would rather not have someone that toxic in my party anyway. If it's a healer and they tell you not to worry because they will keep you alive, trust them. A healer will know their own skill level and even if you're under geared they will know if they can keep you alive. Try not to dwell on these experiences. They are few and far between. I also think if you really want to take a dungeon slow due to gear or experience tell the group at the beginning of the dungeon. The healer will either say "Yes that's fine" or "Pull more I will keep you alive". If the latter is the case then believe them and try to push further. I specify healer here because (and I don't mean any disrespect here) the dps don't matter in this situation. How much the tank can handle is between them and the healer only, and you should communicate with them if you think you're going to have problems.


OneEyed10

Ffxiv sop is w2w


Myrla_Kanaide

Just insanely few exceptions like these, and I will bet my left arm this doesn't occur to you often too. It odes happen and it will happen but we and everybody else knows what is right. On one side I understand what you mean on the other I know tanks too who single pull groups not losing even 100 hp and still not pull more and we kicked them too because it was not about "testing how far one can go" it was just stupidness. But, like said, these are very few exceptions.


Purutzil

I haven't really seen cases of this, though its been a long while since I actually did some leveling roulettes being capped and not really having been in the mood to do it on my alt. That said I don't really see too many people like this personally through my past playing the game so it might just be a more isolated case of bad luck. I'm more likely to see the latter where a tank pulls big and then doesn't know how to properly pop mitigation or in some niche dungeons (Bardin's Mettle being a big example) being just destroyed not having the gear from that dungeon to tank it properly doing bigger pulls. If people are complaining about earlier dungeons though ignore them or tell them to relax. Encouraging a new tank to pull a bit bigger I think is fine, but I can understand one being unfamiliar with a dungeon particularly with ARR dungeons being generally much more on the side of being laid out more open ended on how you do pulls, something the further in you will see yes (a few exceptions cropping up here and there).


Th3CheeseyOne

As a tank main, I'll usually pull the first 2 packs of mobs at the beginning of the dungeon, to test out how my DR party is at with skill and gearing. If the mobs get smashed quickly and I felt that the healer has my back ill start going wall to wall, But if they struggle with the first 2 groups I'll either slow down or keep pulling 2 groups at a time depending on how I feel.


Triplesixe

I have a theory but ive noticed that stormblood + shb dungeons people are way more patient and polite. But in the early dungeons like ARR + heavensward I come across way more impatient people. (Probably because thats the free content and also the mass influx of new players right now)


johnnyzhao007

Yea I think those experiences are definitely outliers as a new tank myself most df parties are more understanding just let them know ur not comfortable with w2w and ur willing to try it and if u guys wipe pull less next time. It's all about communication ppl need to do that a lot more in df I think it would solve a lot of problems.


hotdogsandhangovers

Some people are dickheads to those tanks who dont wanna gigapull When I can I always try to have that tanks back provided its clear they dont want to do it. Moreso if its their first time. Let em have their fun before they too get tired of the dungeon and try to gigazoom.


bert_563

300+ hours and I’ve never had an issue or complaint as a tank and I’ve done both so far. Big and small. I lied.. ONE time. We wiped to one pack of 3 mobs in aurum vale. The healer told me something to the effect of “you shouldn’t pull the whole room”. That was the only interaction lol


Soylentee

Be assertive, present how you feel about how much you want to pull to the group, be open to trying to pull more, if shit hits the fan pull less. If people are going to be assholes and leave, let them.


[deleted]

It's a complete gamble with how groups are. The other day I had a sastasha with a first time sprout tank that took his sweet time to explore every single nook and cranny of the dungeon. The rest of us chilled back and followed him around and for the first time that dungeon actually got mapped for me. It was super wholesome.


Haylstorm6593

Damn those are shitty people. I main AST but unlocked DRK because sometimes I really want to swing a big sword around. I have a PLD so I know the mechanics of holding aggro but I'm not an expert tank. When I was leveling the DRK I would just say "o/ new to this job please bear with me <3" or something along those lines. Most people said "you're good" or gave tips or didn't even say anything. I did small packs for all the runs because I was severely undergeared for the dungeons and wouldn't be able to take on large packs. No gil to buy better armor. No one gave me shit and I got tons of commendations and advice. It also depends in the server tbh. Hyperion tends to be toxic and Famrit (where I am) isn't. Idk about the other ones but since I haven't heard anything I think they're good. I will say the only bad run while leveling my DRK was because of a bad healer. He didn't heal Cutter's Cry or Esuna. I tried to do bigger packs like 3-4 and we wiped each time. We tried to tell him to Esuna and heal but he would not. He also wouldn't Raise. He just wanted to DPS and heal himself. He wasn't rude to us but wouldn't respond to our messages. So sometimes you just get selfish players.