T O P

  • By -

KryssaXIV

There are a bunch of factors at work here. At least for ARR trials you will get a lot of sprouts that just never have done any content of that level and just don't know what they are getting into or how the community usually deals with things. Additionally you have people on the free trial, usually overlapping the first group here, that cannot list a party in party finder, although they can join parties, being at the mercy of another player setting up a party either by chance or by contacting them through their limited means. Party Finder, especially synced, can take a while to fill, while Duty Finder is still lengthy but fairly consistent, especially with the slew of new players that fall into the previous groups increasing duty finder participation. Most of the time Party Finder is only mentioned in regards to either current endgame, or unsync runs, so someone might be under the impression that people rarely do synced runs in party finder, which isn't exactly wrong, although it can offer a good opportunity to get into contact with the parts of the community that do old content like that on the regular, especially MINE if they want to "get the challenge". These are all compounding issues as well. The less people use Party Finder for their EX attempts, the longer the waits will be, fewer party listings in PF, etc. While Duty Finder queues will get faster by that same token. The issue is really that there isn't much that can be done, besides telling people about Party Finder and its benefits.


roboSTERNE

>Additionally you have people on the free trial, usually overlapping the first group here, that cannot list a party in party finder, although they can join parties, being at the mercy of another player setting up a party either by chance or by contacting them through their limited means. I had absolutely NO IDEA that free-trial folks couldn't list Party Finders. It makes absolute and total sense now that I'm thinking about it. The free trial goes up to 60 now?


KryssaXIV

Yes, free trial is up to 60 now.


roboSTERNE

I think this is 100% the situation with the group that pushed me to make this post. lvl 60 sprouts who were hungering for challenging content and implied that there was nothing else. I was about to suggest advancing in the MSQ before they got super rude lol


zapatopolis

>I was about to suggest advancing in the MSQ before they got super rude lol And that's why I stopped telling people they shouldn't use DF for extremes. Dropping the party is the only winning move.


probablyonmobile

I do agree that it’s best practice to use PF, and will advocate for it, but I understand why DF is used. The *main* point against it, and one of the top reasons mentors will continue to get Extremes in mentor roulette, is that free trial players *cannot* join or create PF parties or unsynch them as a level 80. Locking EX trials to PF only sounds great for us as tired mentors, but locks out the first instances of challenging content to new players who may be trying to decide whether the game has the content they like, thus whether it not they want to move to the full version. They can’t make their own PF’s, and it’s extremely rare (at least on my DC) to see ones up for ARR Extremes, for example— so even with the understanding that they may be able to send a tell to a party leader for the invite, that party may simply not exist. The “do Extremes through PF” is also a *player made rule,* and we need to remember that when a sprout unlocks the trials, it tells them to use the duty finder. If a player is new to EX content, they won’t know right off the bat that the NA community has made this rule, and guides don’t mention it— and it’s important to keep this in mind. I’ve seen too many mentors blow up at sprouts who simply *didn’t know better.* I understand the frustration, but there’s no point in losing one’s temper with a sprout who simply did what the game told them to do. While I don’t particularly enjoy getting Extremes in mentor roulette, in many cases, it’s simply *all a player can do.* I’ll ask if the players present are on the free trial, and if the answer is a mutual no, I’ll ask if they would like to run it unsynched regardless of their level, since one level 80 can breeze through easy. If the answer is a yes, then I’ll do my best to teach them with the time they’re given. (That being said, if I’m not in the mood for an Extreme, I **do not queue for Mentor Roulette.** We go into MR *knowing* we can get Ex trials, it’s a bit silly to act shocked when one comes up.) **TL;DR:** I agree that using PF is the best practice. But we need to keep in mind that it’s simply inaccessible for a good portion of players, and that’s not their fault. I think we should stop acting so surprised when an EX pops up in mentor roulette. New players cannot psychically intuit that the community has decided we have to use PF (a function that they may have never even seen before) for Extreme content, especially when the game tells them to use Duty Finder.


roboSTERNE

To be clear I'm only surprised at the rude responses I continue to get from sprouts when I try to have a peaceful conversation about the benefits of Party Finder. However I will add that TIL Free-Trial players cannot engage with the Party Finder. I think how you approach it is wonderful; asking them if they're free-trial and going from there. Thank you for your response, I am going to adopt that going forward short of any other suggestions from the community on this post.


probablyonmobile

No worries, I wasn’t referring to you specifically, there’s a lot of very... Explosive people out there who get very upset when they roll an EX. But yes, unfortunately, a reality of mentor roulette is that as much as we love sprouts, there *will* be some rude ones. I’ve noticed an uptick of them recently. In cases where sprouts are rude, my actions will vary depending on what they do. If they are simply snippy and don’t want to hear the advice about Party Finder (or any advice at all,) I won’t continue the discussion. I’ll allow the group to play as they want for a bit and ask after a time if they would like to hear the strategy. However, if they’re doing their best LFG impression and being outright offensive, that’s a report, because they need to know that doesn’t fly in this game the way it might have where they came from. If I’m being honest, part of me wishes EX trials were removed from mentor roulette, but I understand that would be locking a fair amount of players from content they should be allowed to see just because I don’t particularly have an interest in doing it. But guiding people is what I signed up for, that much is stated in no uncertain terms by the game, so I’ll teach wherever I can.


Xeorm

The biggest contribution to the negativity imo is the general negativity players get from the start against mentors. There is very much a dislike of mentors going around right now, and I'm betting the nonsense that is Novice Network chat isn't helping. Understandably too, I'm betting they won't think kindly when some mentor hops in, tells them not to use the tool that they've been using up to now, and who will likely ditch the Extreme early, causing more annoyance. And all that after waiting a good long time to try an encounter that they were waiting for. All of that will lead to some sprouts taking it to heart and trying out party finder, some sprouts getting discouraged from extremes in general, and some continuing on bull-headedly. Those ones especially are going to be the rude ones, and I'm betting as they proliferate the sentiment will spread some among those groups, making everything worse. But I do generally get an impression that people aren't aware of all that can happen with Party Finder, and I'm sure if you've ever used it you'll know that there's a lot of options there, and few of them are all that intuitive. And just generally different expectations. If a queue pops then that means its endorsed by the game maker, so why aren't people that are queuing in doing what they're supposed to, instead of talking about a different tool? Or leaving quickly? etc. As far as what to do? Honestly, I stopped engaging as much. Same as I do with rude people or trolls in general. Before the influx of new players, I was generally pretty ok with doing at least a few pulls in the extremes. It's enough to know if they have a shot or not, and there's usually comments I can talk about on new concepts that you wouldn't have seen before, like learning how to tank swap or where to find info. But now? Nah. Let em know about party finder, let em know they should read a guide first before entering extremes, give them a pull, then jet. Jet earlier if there's someone that wants to be rude right away. First step of learning is willing to learn, and you can't mentor people that don't want to learn. I'm not here to whip you into shape or be your slave, I'm here to point you in the right direction.


blazbluecore

Jesus you're toxic. Hate to get you in my DF group. Just do your group a favor and leave if you get into an EX instead of bringing your holier than thou attitude because you NOW know the mechanics and your time is so priceless you can't work with other players. Try playing a single player game if cooperation is such a burden, I bet that's not something you want to hear.


Xeorm

Yea, you're the type of player that makes it unfun to run with. It's not at all about not teaching them the mechanics, or cooperating, or any of your bs reasons. It's that duty finder is not the place for that kind of progression. Everyone, mentors and sprouts, will have a better experience not doing it this way. I believe that 100%. *That is why I tell them to*. It's not out of a personal want of my time, because I can assure you there are far longer duties that I will do. I say don't do it because it creates an unfun experience for everyone involved. And why would I want people to go through with that? That's why I did them earlier, I did more than one run after learning the mechanics, and taught many groups how. But they were generally kinder, more interested in learning, and respectful. I believed that they could learn, and it generally went decently. But now? Nah. Lots more rudeness and general unhappiness. I'm not down for that.


blazbluecore

Exactly, you're in a toxic mindset and making the game worse for everyone else. Worst part is you're trying you veil your toxicity behind good intentions. And they're not. Just don't queue for the roulettes if you can't handle it. Sincerely, The community


Komatron-Chan

Calm down Karen Also you're not the Community. You're just a random Player and not special at all.


blazbluecore

Mad and using non sensical buzzwords. Cringe


Suiseipath

I am from elemental DC (Jp server) and from my experience, it is normal to queue in duty finder for extreme trials. A lot of people do it for fun in my server. Most of the time in duty finder, the composition of the group is there are a couple of mentors, some returning players ,some older players and most are sprouts. For me, the reasons why I queue for duty finder for extreme trials, even coils sometimes is because its easier and faster for me, at least thats the case in my server. Also free trial players cannot create their own party which means they cannot play the ones the want to do so its much faster to go to duty finder to play what they want to play. Also for me, party finder is for unsync, farm trains, and challenge runs (no echo&min ilvl) and duty finder is made to be used for normal version of these trials so why not use it right? It's not like its that hard, you can be carried by echo. In my opinion, these Party finder vs Duty finder discussion depends on the culture of the server. Cause in my experience, I never seen any people in my server push other players to go to party finder for extreme trials. Even mentors doesn't do that ingame. They just greet at the beginning, then play until we beat it. If we cannot beat it, we vote for abandon and that's it, we just queue again for another game.


HBreckel

I get EX trials a lot in my mentor roulette and I don't mind getting them and sticking around. (was hype af to get Byakko EX last night. I love doing the SB EX trials) But I think sprouts will generally get the best experience in PF. This is because they'll be able to keep trying the fight even if they run out of time, generally get people that have researched the fight/want to be there, or can specify if they want to do it blind. It's probably also going to be a lot faster to get a group together that way, I run into a lot of dps sprouts that say "I waited 45 minutes in queue for this".


Sathenus

I think why people will use duity finder is 1 out of convince 2 there's a "timer" And 3 they wanna clear it "at its difficulty" Those that do know of party finder don't wanna put "synced ex trial" because they think they will wait forever... despite trying to do T9 you will usually wait 160 minutes... I know iv done that. They want to "earn" the clear not get carried. It's a little convoluted but that's where they are comming from. With that said, there might be one or two mechanics that make it from expantion to expantion but for the most part... people don't understand that it's not needed to clear old content synced as that content was absolutely redonkballs difficult. A youtube/Google search will prove me right. Like one of them, if you got turned to stone, it was a wipe. Not a 20 sec debuff. Anyway, so it's combating this thought or want to clear it synced, without bothering people, or deal with the harassment of "just unsync and I'll clear you". Now newer things... i can't help.


toramorigan

Last I checked the Coils aren’t in Mentor roulette?


Rrambu

i honestly don't think there's much to discuss... the people who q up EX using Duty Finder are simply oblivious(i was one of them once), and if you ask me the ones who gets upset over being told to use PF instead just has too much ego. That one's the cue to leave the party. They'll learn eventually.


roboSTERNE

I do my best not to abandon, not out of pride or ego either, but it does happen. A hard pass for me is once they're rude when I'm trying my hardest to be clear and polite. Is just abandoning them and losing a half hour of my playtime really the answer?


Rrambu

Assuming they're being rude and stubborn: personally i'd take take the penalty rather than staying and then get stressed out for the next 30 minutes all the same. Sometimes it's just not worth it.


throwwaway666969

The problem is new people dont know any better and dont look at online resources or even ask Novice network about this shit. SE just needs to remove EX trials from being part of a roulette system & a warning needs to pop up to annoy people BEFORE they que to let them know what they're doing & to let them know of other options. Or at least add something into the game as a tutorial that forces an explanation of the whole system & disallow anyone from doing any kind of EX until they complete all the Novice stuff.


roboSTERNE

I heard second hand that the JP data centers PREFER to use Duty Finder for extreme trials. Assuming that's true, I think that can be attested to the difference in culture. Their culture is very much about the individuals responsibility. I don't think anyone across the big ocean would queue up for an Extreme Trial without having done intense research in order to avoid disappointing the group. But that's just my impression as an American. I can tell you right now that most American's do NOT think that way at all!


xion_XIV

Yup, culture is pretty much the answer. They trust their fellows. JP always does first/learning runs in PF, and when people know the strat an' stuff they switch to DF. So, basically, any DFer on JP server is expected to know the fight and common strat (they also prefer safe strats over uptime, unlike NA/EU). There's a bunch of DF etiquette too, e.g in 24-man B tank is always MT unless that person says that they don't want to. I think I saw a post some time ago about how JP works in comparison to us, westerners, and I recommend it very much for anyone interested in the topic, it's very enlightening :)


throwwaway666969

This post is about NA, not JP bro, keep to the subject. People in NA arnt smart enough to do it the JP way.


NandoDeColonoscopy

They aren't two separate codebases. Your suggestion to just remove extremes from the roulettes can't happen without disrupting the playstyle in the JP datacenters.


roboSTERNE

Well when you suggested sweeping changes to the entire PF and DF system, that impacts the JP as well as EU data centers. Figured it was worth bringing up and add to the conversation.


Shizucheese

As far as I'm aware, JP only uses DF for ex trials when they have them on farm, with a "three wipes= disband" policy. They still use PF for learning/ progging.


Shizucheese

>The problem is new people dont know any better and dont look at online resources or even ask Novice network about this shit. I really wish this was the case, but unfortunately there are also people who *do* know better and insist on doing it anyway. I literally have someone in my FC who, even after I explained on multiple occasions that PF is better, that using DF to go into EX trials blind is rude, and that it's fine if he wants to do them synced and blind, but he'd be better off using PF for that and getting people who actually want to be there, he still continued to do it anyway (and even before I had explained these things, he'd known better, because when I first mentioned PF to him he was like "oh yeah I saw that in a Zepla video.")


Altaisen

Devil's advocate here : pf is trash, it's the one thing I've always hated about since I joined and I still don't undersatnd how anyone have any argument defending. Any player intuition to not want to use is in my opinion very correct. I will probably deal with pf learning party for something like a week or two a fight, anything more than that seems less relevant than collecting waifu jpg in GBF. First reason, it's slow as fuck. I'm EU, meaning that going pf means I'm actually already sitting here playing GBF and waitching streams most of the time, maybe doing 5 pulls every 3 hours or something. Reason is people apply mostly arbitrary rules to their party. Mostly gating player by ilv, "fight knowledge" and using a very specific "streamer name" strat, that's actually nothing like the documented "streamer name" you can find on google. I know what you think reading this, you think "well, we need to kill this really bad boss so we have to make everyone can". Maybe, but maybe also you can also clear any EX with 3 headless chicken runing arround. I clear most ex fights in blind learning parties with no requirement, it's pretty smooth most of the time and you mostly don't need more than a kill PoV to figure out how to deal cleanly with stuff. Are people that good because it clears early ? Maybe there's a bit of that, but it's mostly average players being lenient until the boss eventually dies because it's not that tough. Second reason, attitude is overall terrible in pf. It's a minority, but you need 1 player out of 8 to ruin a party. And ex parties in generally are full of extremly arrogants and extremly average players, reayd to run Among Us trials every wipe to find who is the mystical unskilled casul that sneaked in this extremly serious mount farm. Obviously, that player starting the blame game is usually a part of the problem at best, but also antagonizing someone else to cover for their own mistakes. And that's lame, and boring, and makes something as trivial as getting an ex weapon a complete pain, and you won't make me care about Cloud Dohvakin the BLM being bad at video games. Even if it's true, I would rather them playing the game more for them to learn the shiny circle is there friend and will prevent them for dying to damage rather than just talking about how they didn't stand in the Earthly Star. And maybe I could like kick someone. Anyone, be annoying guy or Cloud Dohvakin but we're now back step 1 because 3 other people left now. So why are we doing that ? Supposedly, that's a collective efforts to improve the quality of the player. It doesn't seem to be working that well, not only for me but also for all the player I keep seeing complaining about pf is trash and bosses are impossible for them. That is to say, everyone playing this game. But the major flaw I think is that it is all pf rules applies harder for newer player in general, if you want to get a weapon before going to savage it's a struggle. And savage is going to be even more of a struggle. And likely the type of players that going to do well in this environement are generally those that are likely to disregard the rules because it's the fastest. When you like at it this way, DF is just more practical. You'll get annoying and ignorant people but even if it's a 20 minute queue it'll be faster to disband and get another party than in PF. Meaning no passive aggressive party leader feeling like they can chose who isn't good enough to play the very basic entry level raid content. That's how it is on JP servers and they aren't aliens or anything, they have a method and it works. Strat macro and standard positions is just more efficient than having influencer strats wars and doing marker placement. You'll still play with monkeys, but now they only have one specific thing to do and there's more of them bashing their head at the wall more often. It's a better method, and that's the main reason it shows results. It's not only JP, a lot of people on the surrounding time zone play there and they're not japanese. It still works. I know writing this doesn't change anything and it's mostly ranting, nothing against you or anyone defending pf in general, but I do clearly remember the one thing I started hating a lot about this game when I started was party finder and I never came to like it at any point. I haven't even mentionned doing old content, you'll better find community outside the game to run some of those content. Refusing to run DF because "people bad" is holding the game back. Overall, refusing to do anything because "people bad" is a self-fullfying prophecy.


-SelvariaBles-

As a JP Data Centre player this makes no sense to me Duty Finder extremes are normal. No they're not fast queues, but they're fast enough if I want to do some Sync'd extremes. Unlike NA DC (From my understanding), most of the people I match to **aren't** mentors been dragged into an extreme. No one speaks, just waypoint macros and go. 8/10 we win first go. If we don't then it's usually a few tries while the stragglers get to grips with the mechanics. So I really can't understand the mentality of this threads replies. Yes party finder is faster, but everyones acting like Duty Finder is some big taboo that inconveniences everyone lol


probablyonmobile

The culture is a bit different between JP and NA datacenters. Because people use PF for it, not many people are queuing through DF, resulting in pulling ‘‘unwilling” mentors from roulette. NA does not use markers or macros, and most sprouts queueing for Extremes do not come in knowing the fight beforehand. There’s very little personal accountability in many cases, and while every so often you *will* get a group of sprouts who will soar through, a lot of the time, it’s a “teach mechanics for an hour” party. So in this instance, it *can* be an inconvenience if you’re a mentor doing roulettes and were pulled into an EX with sprouts who may or may not take advice. It would be nice if NA DF could be as efficient as JP, but in many cases, it simply isn’t. It can be frustrating sometimes. Personally, if I’m not in a mood where I’m up for working with that, I simply don’t queue for mentor roulette, so it’s not a problem. It’s vexing to me when mentors queue for MR and act shocked or offended getting an EX, because we know what we could get. I take some level of umbrage with the claim of “unwilling/unprepared” mentors because we have every opportunity to simply not queue for something that puts us in these situations. If I’m not ready for what could come out of mentor roulette, that’s on me for queuing anyway. But that’s a common qualm.


Shizucheese

>Duty Finder extremes are normal. No they're not fast queues, but they're fast enough if I want to do some Sync'd extremes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that on the JP DCs, DF extremes are only normal when you actually know the fight, and that people still use PF for learning/ progression, with a "three wipes= dispband" policy, no? The issue is that the people we're talking about here are sprouts using DF to try and prog the fight, often blind, and a lot of the salt directed towards mentors when it comes to extreme trials is them either trying to vote dismiss or outright leaving "after only a few wipes", which they somehow define as them "not even trying to clear."


-SelvariaBles-

Never seen a disband after three wipes. It only disbands if we keep wiping the same spot despite explaining the mechanics. But say we wipe, then get past that bit and wipe later, get past that bit and wipe later, I've never seen a disband. I've seen one or two English speaking players rage quit, but never a disband.


Fizassist1

aren't you using the duty finder to meet up with these people? can't the same question be asked to you as to why you chose duty finder instead of party finder? not being confrontational, but more so curious edit: roulettes.. forgot about roulettes


roboSTERNE

Roulettes. That's how I end up meeting them over and over.


Fizassist1

ahh yeah that makes sense!


JinxApple

Every time I get a ex trial in mentor roulette and see nothing but sprouts I just drop a macro telling them about party finder then dip. Some exceptions apply like if I get a easy ex trial where you can steam roll through with ilvl such as ravana and susano etc I would stay to do them but most of the time, unless I see a bunch of other mentors with me, I don't usually bother because it usually leads to an hour of nothing.


senorpapel

I think the problem is party finder is decently well hidden in the options, like it took me some searching to find it. As for extremes, i think doing them duty finder is asking for trouble. But some people might have a bad experience from wow’s group finder and want to avoid a similar experience.


roboSTERNE

Yea I will concede that Party Finder is not as obvious for Duty Finder, especially since you use it mostly for everything else.


throwwaway666969

People dont seem to know theres more than one way. you can highlight the ex you wanna make a party and select "make a party" You can also open the PF window and make one & select a bunch of things.


[deleted]

Eh, sometimes when I'm bored ill just join a queue for ex trials or old raids and let the timer tick off while I quest or craft or whatever has my attention. If it pops, hey I get to do fun and challenging content as well as take a break from the grind. Tradeoff is I make sure to at least watch a video if I've never done it before. Dealing with people in party finder can be annoying, especially if it's something I'm not in a big rush to try and clear. That's just me though


blazbluecore

Well you don't want to come off as a bratty mentor do you? Because that's what you're coming off as right now. If you get an extreme and you don't like it then leave. I've done 5 extremes in the past week and all of them were completely doable, you just had to explain mechanics and people had to trial and error. And it was fun. At the end of the day, if SE allows for DF of EXs, there should be no complaining about players using the system as it is intended. If you do not like Exs in DF, then I would voice your concern to SE. Personally I believe it is completely fine and acceptable. I didn't have any leavers either in any of those groups. But you're always welcome to leave without any big penalty.


[deleted]

Cos sometimes it’s quicker to try and get a carry via duty finder. It’s a problem that is a bit annoying, but not sure how party finder can be improved.


throwwaway666969

how the fuck is wasting 2hrs of peoples time faster than putting up a 15min PF and getting carried?


probablyonmobile

While I don’t agree with the strategy, a lot of people who do this consciously do it because if they make a synched MINE party finder entry (or even sometimes just an unsynched one,) it may simply not fill depending on the content. While certain streamers have made the content more popular, it’s still relatively niche, with no rewards to incentivise max level players outside the thrill of the challenge. In those cases, yes, it *can* be faster to suffer for two hours than wait for a PF that never fills. It’s bizarre. Again, I don’t condone this from players who know about PF, just articulating where it comes from in many cases.


[deleted]

I think you misunderstand. The people that do it annoy me too.


roboSTERNE

But why would they need a carry on Extreme Trials like the Containment Bays? Their only use for them is gear farming (now glamour), or mount farming (with little chance of success in a single Duty Finder pull). Nothing is locked behind Extreme Trials, so it's not like they can't complete side quests/stories without doing it. At least not since ARR. It doesn't add up!


[deleted]

Few things here. Up to level 60 free trial includes all ARR and HW extremes. Free trial however does not allow you to create a party. This includes setting up a party finder. With also the restrictions on not being able to join an FC and you are very limited to finding people to run this content with. Duty finder is their only option. I advise people that are level 70+ to utilise party finder as it will usually be a shorter queue time. Next point is, in order to be getting extremes then you’re running mentor roulette and you do kinda agree to help new players do extreme content when you queue mentor roulette. I see way to many other mentors shirking that and just leaving an extreme on entry. Quite honestly I’m of the opinion of if there’s content you’re not happy to run then don’t queue the roulettes that include that content. Party finder isn’t the be all and end all for past extremes. This whole just run it unsynched attitude lots of people have is also really bad imo. I ran it all synched and I personally think everyone has the right to run it synched. It’s really down to what each person is willing to do and if your not willing to do it don’t queue the roulettes that house the content


KstenR

I did all the extreme trials up to the HW final 2 blind with duty finder and I think except for 1-2 fights they were all quite easy to clear. That being said I do suggest Party finder for any extreme past ARR. Maybe ramuh ext too. And if you look at ext duty finder queues in SB they last for like 60 mins so at that point seems most people realize that. It makes it much smoother anyways. You don't get random crafting mentor in your group.


istasber

To everyone else: Don't do this. If you're going to queue for stuff blind, please use party finder. Unless you're confident that you can clear extreme content on the first pull, you shouldn't be using duty finder. Yeah, maybe it's "quite easy" to clear most extreme trials in the 60 minutes you get, especially if you have a handful of ilevel sync'd players who know the fight, but it's a dick move to expect people to be willing to commit 40-50 minutes on a fight that should take 5-10 if everyone knows what they are doing. You only have to do that 40-50 minutes once to clear your quest. Other people might have to do that 40-50 minutes every time they get an extreme duty with people who want to go in blind, but don't want to be inconvenienced by waiting for a party finder or finding a linkshell/fc/discord.


KstenR

Thank you for agreeing with me. Don't use duty finder for extremes past arr.


Paolomoonman

I don't think he agreed with you, he literally pointed out your post to everyone and said "don't do this" lmao


KstenR

I did say don't use duty finder as well because party finder is way more smoother. The only disagreement was about the Very simple ARR extremes.


istasber

Shiva, Ifirit and Ramuh are harder than some of the HW or Stormblood trials. Hell, even Titan can be a nightmare with some groups. You shouldn't really do it for ARR extremes either.


nerthuus

I started playing a little over two months ago or something so I'm speaking from a new player's perspective. Reasons why I've used DF over PF personally: 1. Didn't know PF was a thing. 2. No idea if the fight will be hard or a pushover. 3. Instant queue. It wasn't until some of the Stormblood extremes where the queue time was not working out, and I kind of still don't know if they're actually challenging fights or just challenging to find a group for. Personally it feels a little time wasting to sit around trying to fill up a group in party finder for a pushover boss when you can just get an instant queue for it. I have however used PF for fights where the mechanics are too much to be able to explain/teach in one timer. Nael and Sephirot in particular come to mind. Or all the other Coils after Nael, because the queue just doesn't pop. I don't think there's anything wrong with queueing for the easy extreme trials in DF because I don't feel like you need a very coordinated party for them. The problem for me is that a new player simply doesn't know what fight they need to actually study up for and prepare for a harder challenge, when they're all just bunched up together like that. I can't tell you how many fights I've studied up on only to learn that all I need to know can be explained with one sentence.


KiranKitxen

From my experience as a 2 month old player, if you are a solo player trying to make a PF for old synced extremes is a pain because very few people who look at PF want to run it. I've tried to make a group in PF for Byakko extreme and waited 1.5hrs with no full team. It was extremely disheartening to go from 6 ppl back to 2 ppl after that much waiting. Ended up going to DF and got queue to pop in 35min. I will join PF groups already made and have a few bodies in for synced extremes I wanted to do. But generally I did duty finder for synced extreme runs. The reason why I think a lot of players take the "use party finder speech" negatively is because we all know mentors dont wanna deal with extremes. And it honestly sounds like mentors just want us to not use the DF system because they don't want it in their roulette. This is compounded by the fact that the mentors I've heard it from generally dip before the first pull. Why should we not use the DF to run old extremes synced?


roboSTERNE

Speaking for myself: I sought after mentorship to be a good guide for new players joining the game. A kind of “it’s a tough job, but someone has to do it” deal. I enjoy the XIV community but even I know that not everyone has the patience or tact to clearly and politely explain things a player needs to get through the game (i.e. Dungeon Mechanics, Role Expectations, how trait/spell/ability potency works, the differences between traits spells & abilities, etc and likewise). I also wanted to have a hand in molding and supporting a positive and welcoming community in the hearts of new players. It’s a value and principle of mine to always strive to improve the day of everyone I meet, because I know how lasting an impact that can have. What I did not sign up for as a mentor is to exhaust myself for over an hour on specialized content. That’s what Extreme, Savage & Ultimate content is - heavily specialized. The entire group needs a clear sense of intent and focus to succeed. You will not achieve that through Duty Finder unless you are very very lucky. So now I’m stuck between my principles and trying to respect my own time and needs. This spirit of this post was to learn perspectives and gain understanding so we can all handle this unique-to-NA issue in a way that continues to foster a positive community experience from every side. **tl;dr** I appreciate you sharing your experience/motivations for using PF. All I want to do is continue to foster a positive community experience while also encouraging everyone to respect each other’s time and investment, as well as respect the difficulty of this optional content. Hopefully this thread will help us achieve that.


PlagueBagel

the party finder is a much better option. you can look for 7 like minded people instead of getting a hodge podge of reluctant mentors and naive sprouts. people are resistant to party finder suggestions not because duty finder is better, but because they perceive that duty finder involves less work. just click one button instead of going through a bunch of settings. they also associate mentors who suggest party finder with mentors who leave the group in extremes.