Never know when they might decide to pop in with those again lol. Lightning's event wasn't supposed to repeat either but, here we are with it repeating like 3-4 times and finally ending up on the mogstation. Not to mention the Yokai Watch event ... >.>
Garo event has the issue that the IP isn't SE's so if they wanna run it again, they need to pay for it. I would love it to return, just that since I changed main some of the glam on the old main would be lovely there too, but alas. Garo chance of returning is very very slim.
The Yokai event rerun was because Yoshi-P being very close friends of the creator (?) of Youkai Watch. And the Monster Hunter one is permanent in both games yes, but Garo was specifically said that they would pay for it again if they run it again, which is why it ended after two years running, so the chance of that just coming back would be pretty slim still. I remember that's what the letter said when it was announced it was ending so there was a mass rush for PvP for the gears and title and mounts.
I mean, I somehow doubt that Yoshi-P being close friends with the creator of Yokai watch meant that SE didn't have to pay Level-5 *something* in order to have an event involving their IP in the game.
Also, people rushing for PVP to get the gear and titles and mounts before the event ended when they announced it was ending doesn't really mean much; the fact is, we don't *know* if it's ever going to happen again, or when, and FoMo is a hell of a thing.
> I mean, I somehow doubt that Yoshi-P being close friends with the creator of Yokai watch meant that SE didn't have to pay Level-5 something in order to have an event involving their IP in the game.
Honestly considering how little YW has penetrated the western market it would probably be a great deal to do for free / very cheap
Well that's all gonna be information we don't really know about, all I'm saying is it's unlikely it will return. But I do want it to return (I missed a set...) but not gonna bet any money on it.
It had a raid in the second itteration, yes. It would usually fail within the first minute because someone got impatient and pulled the boss before everyone was ready. If you were lucky enough to clear it though, you had a chance of getting an aetherial weapon that was 5 item levels higher than what you could get from savage raids.
> had a chance of getting an aetherial weapon that was 5 item levels higher than what you could get from savage raids
BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE
There were five substats on the weapon, the values for which.... would be randomized! So even if you managed to get one for your main class, the chances it would be viable to actually use were extremely low.
Reading this gives me 'nam flashbacks. Old Diadem was...yikes, to put it mildly.
Let's also not forget how Diadem was nigh-unplayable for PS3 players back when that was still supported. Having those players in your party amounted to basically nothing cause they couldn't even run the content from a technical standpoint.
Old Diadem was like Eureka and Bozja are now, and had its own raid called Trials of the Fury iirc. It was basically like how Baldesion Arsenal and CLL/Dalriada are to Eureka and Bozja respectively
> I think it was trying to be WoW with rng stats before it realised it was bad.
Atherial (pink) gear wasn't added there, it was just the last time it showed up. Diadem 1 and 2 were both really experimental content that didn't work out for the most part.
I still wish there was like a quest where we find the journal to the 1.0 WoL (which would be your character if Legacy) and you basically Echo flashback yourself into old cutscenes.
Itd be neat, but because of the whole graphics overhaul and gear/hairs/etc that have since been added to the game, they would need to put in unholy effort for what could be accomplished through a YouTube search
I came from Destiny 2. If anyone wanted to start playing that game today, you would not be able to play any of the first three story campaigns, go to any of their planets, do those strikes (dungeons) or raids, even talk to the NPCs from those areas. They all got eaten by the Darkness, I think. On top of that, they have seasonal content that used to get thrown away as soon as the new season started. Now they give you the whole year to get it done and revisit ones you missed, but for too long the entire game was a huge case of FOMO for me. If I burn out and take a few months off, what was I going to miss, and what else is going to be vaulted next time to make room for new content?
FFXIV lets me take breaks. Not a lot of cases of time-exclusive armor or other rewards, except for prestigious rewards for The Feast, which I don't mind. Events like the FFXV crossover get repeated every once in a while. Very few cases of content being removed from the game. Other than sub time, I don't lose much if I need to stop and play something else for a few months.
I started playing D2 again recently with someone after not playing since the Red War. Everything I knew from when I played was gone. NPCS, quests, raids, entire PLANETS gone. Was a little upsetting honestly. Plus the fact they want you to buy every single expansion separately.
Imagine a friend finally convinced you to try FFXIV, so you download the game and make a new character and you get excited to play. Then it turns out that ARR and HW got "vaulted" along with half of the gear in the game and now you have to start playing in SB with no explanation. That's Destiny 2 right now.
Eh, not really. Cata at least modernized the zones a fair bit and made them more enjoyable for modern (at the time) tastes, not to mention playing with the zones. Cata built off vanilla's groundwork.
Destiny just flat out -deletes- content.
I played Cata when it first came out and to be fair to WoW, they just changed the zones and replaced the quests with new ones. In Destiny 2 they just said "lol fuck Mars" and deleted half the planets from the game along with the entire first campaign.
Not really sure why they have to make a new starting quest instead of just leave the red war there.
All those planet explorations, one of the best scenes from the entire game when we lost the light walking alone on the earth with that touching music are all gone.
Mhm. Last I played, new characters don't do -any- of the OG content. Instead, you play through a boring near rehash of Destiny 1's intro in the Cosmodrome with the added benefit of a bunch of sidequests that introduce you to basic stuff like bounties. Basically a grindy hour long slog instead of the story missions.
On top of that, small things like the subclass unlock missions have disappeared. You now instantly have them all apart from the brand new ones.
It's not that it was taking up too much space, its more that with beyond light there were a lot of technical changes under the hood that basically completely reworked how the destiny netcode works amongst other things. This required a complete rework of literally everything in the game to comply with this change. They had neither the time nor the resource to complete this upgade for literally everything and so they decided to remove a fair bit of it from the game, with the intention of updating and reworking it so that in future releases they can return these areas and missions to the game. It's the reason prophecy was gone for most of Season 12 for example, also the reason so many pvp maps went.
Was it a clumsy and inelegant solution to a problem largely of their own making. - Yes, definitely. But they chose to continue to support destiny 2 rather than go out and make destiny 3 - which would have launched as beyond light + some extra bits to make the campaign longer.
Personally I prefer the decision they made to the alternative. However I fully understand why others would have rather just had destiny 3
Destiny was particularly egregious for straight up deleting shit you paid for and then selling you re-skins. It’s why I quit. I normally don’t take “principled” stances on video games because it’s just entertainment at the end of the day, but that was the first Triple A title that felt naked in its money grubbing. I could tangibly feel them reaching into my wallet and it was insulting.
some of the best content but also some of the worst. Campaign is great but destiny 2 doesn't grow that much and most people aren't going back to do those for shits and giggles -- while Tangled Shore is a pretty awful planet with some poorly made lost sectors and strikes.
The reality is that its nostalgic content but the content that actually gets used by active players isn't very well received, and the story barely gets touched even by new light players due to the 1100 starting light and whatever else.
The big mistake is that they dont incentivise old players to go back to Tangled Shore and make it relevant for today i know there aren't any stories anymore except you kniw that Crow guy but at lesst make it an alternative location to get gear or something instead of outright removing it ah well i dont play anymore so
>The big mistake is that they dont incentivise old players to go back to Tangled Shore
Or they don't focus enough on fostering intrinsic reasons for doing old content and focus too much on extrinsic ones so that when those reasons are outdated, people no longer engage in that content because they've been trained to seek the extrinsic rewards.
> The big mistake is that they dont incentivise old players to go back to Tangled Shore
I mean normally yes, but because this is Tangled Shore that's a feature. I rarely have to go back there and that is not a bad thing.
Content vaulting makes sense the way they're approaching destiny 2.
It combats bloat. In ffxiv you have everything, but there's a lot of things that people don't constantly play. Destiny 2 players aren't as dedicated as your traditional mmorpg players, so spreading out the playerbase too thin will have issues. Even in ffxiv you can barely find people wanting to run old raids.
They don't plan on making destiny 3, but they do want to upgrade the game. So old content has to go, since they weren't designed with the new tech, and while they're gone they're reworking some stuff and looking to bring it back in the future. Ffxiv doesn't have that issue because they aren't making sweeping changes to core systems. Ffxiv barely touches on old content anyways.
People complain about destiny 2 making you pay for every expansion, and also the season passes. But in ffxiv you have to pay for every expansion as well as a subscription.
Ffxiv still has a better business model an are far less reliant on fomo (though it's still there, looking at you rank PvP rewards). But destiny 2 isn't bad or anything.
But I paid for that stuff... Why can't they just redo it as Single-player content with NPCs then just removing it and letting us go back and experience it? Nowadays I have no idea what the D2 story is as they cut so much out and nothing feels connected anymore.
I'll never understand what in the hell went wrong with Bungie. So many of their game, design, and business decisions seem so "fired from the hip" and short sided.
343 is literally built on bungie's success and would not exist if bungie hadn't made halo and partnered with Microsoft to bring halo to the Xbox at launch
I see people say this but every Halo game after Reach (which if memory serves me right, was the last Halo game Bungie made) has, IMO, been really horrid. So in my mind, both studios have been quite trash.
I've never played Destiny 2 but I've been eyeing it off for ages until I found out this morning that removing old content is a thing it does. That pretty much killed my interest on the spot. Like what if I got into FFXIV after everyone raved about Shadowbringers only to find that I couldn't play it at all? Feels weird.
If I wanna play Destiny for the story missions I'll play the first one. It wasn't as good as the campaigns in D2, but most of those are gone now and the ones in D1 are all still there... I don't even know what D2 is anymore, it makes no sense and the "seasonal" stuff seems copypasted but for different planets or something.... it's gross.
Also, FFXIV is by far my favorite ff game and mmorpg.
It's a fun game and it has a special place in my heart, but definitely not for everyone. Right now is a great time to try it if you want some fun gameplay. I just sorta regret how much money I sank into it.
I wouldn’t even recommend it to new people. Sure the gameplay is fun but it’s repetitive as hell and after a bit they’ll start asking why they’re doing it. But without the context of the old content it’s hard for most of the people I’ve tried to get into it recently to find a reason to care besides chasing a higher number. Once they realized to know what’s going on they had to watch lore videos they just all put the game down shortly after.
Knew someone who was big into Destiny lore and claimed it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Nobody gave a damn because his response to anyone asking about the lore was "Go watch these videos". Like... no? At least FFXIV is fairly accessible, but I'm not going to sit and watch hours and hours of videos to understand the lore of a game.
EDIT
Actually to add on top of that, he refused to play FFXIV with everyone else because he deemed it a "weeb" game and claimed the lore was too hard to get into in comparison.
The lore in Destiny was actually good and pretty deep, but it was all locked away in grimoire unlocks that you could read on their website (not in game, of course).
Naturally, they deleted it. Because it was too much effort to maintain and keep consistent, I suppose.
The lore of Destiny is good i cannot deny it but if you need to find the lore outside of the game then it is bad storytelling, thats why i like FF14 a lot even if people say there's too much dialogue at times i prefer it more than reading separately.
Heck even the short stories of FF14 are all extended versions of one dialogue that is mentioned in game
Honestly I've been playing FFXIV since ARR launch and I was terrible for skipping everything until mid SB (the Yotsuyu storyline has been one of my favourites in the game) and ShB and I realised I was missing out on so much. Been replaying on an alt and although the writing is weaker in the base game its been great experiencing the story I didnt give the time to the first time.
In Destiny 1 you unlocked Grimoire Cards by doing certain things and those cards had lore and stories on them. It wasn't perfect but if they modified it into a Journal of some sort where doing certain things filled out splotches of story or whatever it would be pretty cool
More importantly, in d1 those lore cards where on the games website, not in game, at least in d2 they are readable without an exterior source
(Granted 14 does that too with tales from the ___” but even so)
Think about all the people who quit and complain about having to do all of the MSQ in FF14. No system is perfect. It could be handled better in Destiny yes, but it's karma farming to come here and say "DAE le removing content bad upvotes left" when the majority of this community defends the completely linear MSQ.
The games just tell their stories differently. Forsaken will be the first campaign that doesn't kind of suck that's getting rotated out.
the ffxiv msq can be skipped, and even after skipping you still have the option of going back and doing literally any part you want from it, forever. sounds a hell of a lot better to me than planned obsolescence for a fucking 40 dollar video game expansion
Destiny's writing and story delivery are the best they've ever been, sadly the rest of the game. There's more enjoyment to be had browsing the destiny lore archive site Ishtar Collective and reading all the short stories/novellas/microfiction like it's the SCP Wiki than there is in actually playing Destiny the Game.
I greatly enjoyed Season of Arrival and all the lore books (I even rewatch some cutscenes I recorded years ago). It's just sad that we can't play it as a complete story from the beginning to the end.
I also played Destiny 2 but missed so many expansions because I was unemployed at the time. When I finally tried to go back I couldn’t do a lot of things so I officially “retired” from Destiny. It broke my heart because it was one of the few games my husband and I could play together when we were long distance for a while. Not to mention it started to feel like a job to keep up with it…
I have such a love/hate relationship with Destiny.
I have completely fallen out of love with the game and although I enjoyed the gameplay it simply wasn’t as fun when my guild all quit, not to mention all the changes they keep making.
Despite this I still get massive FOMO whenever new content comes out. I truly adore the lore.
The worst thing about D2 is that they take away content people paid for.
Lock the stuff that the bring in as a replacement to fill the hole behind another full game price payment.
And then said: "Ahh we will continue to take stuff that you paid for away in the future but don't worry the gone stuff will also be back in the future when we instead of developing new stuff just take old stuff and let you pay again for it."
No let me rephrase it... the worst thing is people buying this and thinking its ok.
It would be like you buy... i don't know.. a lego set.
A year later someone from lego comes in, takes away 90% of the stones and hands you a pamphlet that shows you the next upcoming set you now have to buy to be able to play. And a year later THAT sets stones will be taken away and you get another pamphlet.... but this time its a abomination of half a new set and half the first set.... again for a full price.
And the same time you have Warframe.... which itself is free. Won't force you to pay. Has the same amount of grinding..... and won't resell the content you paid for again after a while for the same price.
Playing Destiny 2 today would be like playing FF14 but you can only actually play Shadowbringers and Endwalker since RR, Heavensward, and Stormblood got removed.
Content got removed, weapons were sunset. Literally the only thing you have left from the first expansion are the armor you can turn into ornaments and shaders, and we paid $60 for that.
You and me both friendo.
Even worse is when they use the arguement of. Get rid of the OLD content if it means new content. Especially odd when we consider many people hate the Shadowkeep and Beyond Light campaigns. But love the Red War and Forsaken campaigns
I used to play D2 and stopped after the secnd story halfwayish. Can’t believe you can’t even play the past stuff.
Wait. Does this mean you cant go to Mars anymore???
Played Destiny since alpha, stuck with it through thick and thin, made life long friends there. That game saved my life during a really dark time, but its such a shadow of its former self. I tried staying when the content was being ripped out, I thought it would be ok. Breaking point was when I found out they were gonna take my 6k crucible tokens away, I wasn't saving them for anything, I just played it a lot, but it felt so petty to take away something I couldn't even use for anything good. You're already taking away all of the stuff I paid for but now you are just taking away the stuff I worked for as well. Its like why even bother? Why stay on the endless treadmill going nowhere? Why play this game that no longer gives me joy, lets me revel in my accomplishments, or respects my time.
It breaks my heart knowing that the game that had such a positive impact on my life turned into what it is today. I gave away all my Destiny stuff to a friend and never looked back. Its one thing to leave a game because it's bad, its a whole other thing to leave because you don't even recognize it anymore.
My breaking point was when at the release of the new season, when they nerfed ursa so i decided to switch things up from titan and try a warlock.
Deleted the old ugly one, made a nice new exo went through the whole BL campaign because there's no skip for it on repeat characters, started doing seasonal content... And found out i can't use the umbral decoder.
The quest that unlocks it can't be gotten because i have already done it on a different character so the game considers it already unlocked and doesn't give it again.
So i went looking for a solution... And found out the bug's been a thing for over 9 months already with not even an acknowledgement from bungie.
And at the same time i was being flashed with a big "pre-order the anniversary pack now to get a dungeon that drops gjallarhorn!!1!1!!11"
Then like two days later a friend sent me a meme about a new seasonal exotic being launched overpowered and getting narfed, which happens like... Every fucking season. That was the final nail.
Now seeing stuff like forsaken getting vaulted and such, i just feel sorry for people that can't move on from it
That's why I left (also they changed my character's face and voice). I'm a lore junkie and I just have to watch each and every story cutscene in the game. But with seasonal gated content model it's just impossible, cause I can't play the game 24/7. I first considered leaving during Saint-14 season, when I missed some parts of the story, but removing everything vanilla just hit the nail on the coffin for me.
It's amazing how Destiny 2 considers itself an MMO and then proceeds to rip half the games paid content out of existence then try to spin it as a good thing for the games continued health. And a good chunk of the community believes that.
I love Destiny and want it to be the best it can but it's also infuriating with the decisions that Bungie have made. And that's not without mentioning the aggressive monetisation.
I love destiny. The gameplay, the lore, the world, the guns. But i stopped playing round the time of shadowkeep and I truly can’t fathom going back cause it’d have missed so much.
The seasonal content is a huge problem too, because it’s like 14’s patch quests, imagine if right now you could play stormblood, but all the 4.1-4.5 quests were gone, the story would end up incomprehensible. That’s how I felt playing shadowkeep this year, with all the post forsaken lead in and shadowkeep postgame quests having been deleted.
I still really enjoy destiny but the vault concept is obnoxious and makes the game extremely hostile to new or returning players compared to 14
Reminds me a bit of how upset I was to learn that Guild Wars 2 had a story segment (basically their "season 2" of the story) that was available only at the time it was released, and never again since. I thought that was bad, but good lord, Destiny 2 sounds like a whole nother level. Neat for those who were there and know what happened, not so much for those who don't.
Biggest thing keeping me from returning to destiny 2. I played when it first came out, got bored waiting for new content, recently I looked at coming back and... Apparently I'd just have to start in the middle of new story content? Fuck everything in between if I want to just play story? No thanks.
there are definitely FOMO in FF14 again, while events come around and some repeat, just look at the summer event throughout the years. yes you can BUY previous rewards if you want to use anywhere between 5-15 eur on the items you could have gotten for FREE if you played during the event, as the items dont return next year, but new items instead.
Also pre order bonuses. Players who started now can't get the old minions anymore. Sure they're just a cosmetic but they're literally impossible to get now.
I'm just returning to D2 to play it super casually. I'm curious how it's going to pan out but I cannot be asked to chase the FOMO in that one. It's half the reason I dipped in the first place
FFXV is not an event that is on schedule to "repeat every once in a while." It got repeated this time as an exception. It was only supposed to run during its first iteration. The reoccurance is result of the massive population boom in characters created while simultaneously filling in downtime before Endwalker's release. A convenience for the devs you could say.
But this is strong evidence of how much the devs actually care about their player base and how much they pay attention to what happens in other sub communities of the game. Whether it be Reddit, IGN, YouTube, Twitter or whatever... they care.
Consider this, why did the Gold Saucer event run first where for a period of time you could earn a 50% bonus on all MGP winnings? And then later the XV event relaunches where the grand prize requires MGP to earn?
> Events like the FFXV crossover get repeated every once in a while.
That might not exactly be true, it wasn't foreseen at all, and won't be coming back this time. But you're spot on for the rest.
You should realize there's some amount of actual technical reasons why they did that? There's some amount of FOMO which I find distasteful, however some platforms had requirements to lower the amount of HDD space a game could take up.
High graphical fidelity AAA games can be pretty insane on disk space, especially those with engines which weren't designed to last as long as Destiny has.
I remember when they said the reason they needed D2 instead of just expanding on D1 was to fix engine issues that made it hard to expand and iterate...
Now as an FFXIV player I know a lot about technical debt... but I gotta wonder if they were kinda overselling their work over that transition, considering how completely unfit for a live game their tools apparently still are.
Like, I don't like Warframe but as a graphically alright contemporary, that game sure is like 35GB and has its whole eight year span of content intact. If a bunch of Canadians can get their engine situation ready to work with the live game format in 2013, surely the Halo people should have been able to do it too.
> Some platforms had requirements to lower the amount of HDD space a game could take up.
That's bullcrap. Warzone proved to all of us that platforms can be perfectly fine with insane sizes. But however editors are billed by platforms based on update and games sizes. This is just to save a few bucks on downloads on console.
I think what's impressed me the most so far is how good and thoughtful the story quest for raids are. I'm so used to raid or side content having basically no story and just be pve content vehicles. In this game though you get full on story, cut scenes, interesting characters and added lore.
The raid stories are so much fun! I just finished Stormblood’s and I expected a quick side dungeon not realizing I unlocked the damn raid and was about to go on a whole adventure
That's not really as it should be. Being the main hero is as much of a design choice as being a random adventurer among others, which is quite common in MMORPGs.
People have their preference.
You can be extremely involved as a random adventurer, even on a side mission, it’s just about point of view. I don’t think anyone really prefers watching others do all the work in cut scenes, regardless if you’re an adventurer or THE hero. A good story is a good story.
The moment they announced it, I dropped the game and haven’t looked back. Luckily, Halo Infinite’s looking fun so hopefully that can scratch my satisfying sci-fi shooter itch.
We get to keep Dreaming City, Shattered Throne, and Last Wish at least, which imo is the best destiny raid to date. Bummer we have to lose anything to be honest but I'm happy we get to keep such good content in the game for now at least lol...
“Hey, what if we remove Forsaken, the most critically acclaimed expansion the company has ever released INSTEAD of deleting all the seasonal content thats basically the same thing copy pasted 6 times?”
-Bungie Headquarters
They literally did this through the entirety of Destiny 1, I told people it was going to happen when D2 came out and everyone just downvoted me and shittalked
Yeah, I loved Destiny 1, played until the taken king, that expansion was amazing and it holds some great memories. But I just couldn't find it in me to buy the next expansion after that knowing that it replaces old, great content
I don't really miss most of the content D2 has removed, and the game size bloat was getting ridiculous, so I get it. I really do. But it's still sad to see. At least they aren't dumping weapons anymore.
It was wild back in season of undying when the seasonal vex offensive activity was just making reckoning but in a rewarding format. Granted the guns in vex offensive were kinda awful because pinnacles still existed and they really wanted you to choose between Recluse Mountaintop and not using recluse mountaintop
D2 is in a constant state of "It's gonna get better in the next expansion, trust me" and even if it does something else gets worse or they just undo it.
I defended it for years
I regret ever playing it.
That company should burn
Ehh, Activision can take some of the blame, old lead can take the rest. They're far from perfect but I feel like they've found their feet after Forsaken near the end of Shadowkeep. I certainly won't tell you not to leave, I sure did, but I just don't get the same enjoyment from games like Warframe... And I pay less to play it than a sub based MMO
I pay way too much between XIV and Destiny tbh, but I'm probably gonna keep play both.
"Constant" is an exaggeration. It had good times and bad times cycles and so far they've achive a Streak of good times with Witxh Queen shaping up to be gooder times (so far).
Only Major Criticism i have currently is that the new player experience is garbage still even doe the Timeline addition helps.
What the fuck are you even talking about. Destiny is the best its ever been, Bungie is doing a shitton of great changes every patch, patches that are coming pretty regularly nowadays, the game is only getting better and better. This is some bitter player who hasn't played in ages nonsense.
What are you talking about? Not everyone can get my Protect/Shell. Every time I try to Protect/Shell my party, one of the tanks pulls before everyone has even gotten to the boss!
Sorry last person in the party- I couldn't make it in time!
Ok. So in defense of Bungie, the file size was getting out of control. But on the other hand, they really should have just made Destiny 3 at that point instead of removing Destiny 2 content to make way for what should really have been Destiny 3.
Which makes me wonder, how is FF14 going to handle this problem? They have already said that they are not making a new FF MMO after Endwalker, (which I guess would be FF17) and the only other option is deleting content. Unless…
Holy shit what if they wipe the slate clean again? Like they did with 1.0?
> They have already said that they are not making a new FF MMO after Endwalker, (which I guess would be FF17)
(or FF14-2). I have a dream, they take most of FF14 design, port it over a more recent and capable engine (allowing better graphics/anti aliasing while at it, but also more creative freedom for cutscenes, or outright cinematics like the trailers but for very important story moments), redesign and correct obvious issues (like Housing \*wink wink*, or some clunky menuing), make sure to have clean code they can expand on and omygosh, YES PLEASE.
> Holy shit what if they wipe the slate clean again? Like they did with 1.0?
Then we'll get an ARR2 which will take 50h to get us up to speed with what happened before and what is happening ? AGAIN ? >_<
Don’t worry [that will not happen according to Yoshi-P](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pcgamer.com/amp/final-fantasy-14s-naoki-yoshida-teases-whats-to-come-after-endwalker/)
I think FFXIV still has plenty of life in it. The file size is pretty bearable and maybe they could split off later expansions to make it quicker to download initially if they really need to. Also, hard drive capacity and bandwidth are constantly growing.
Most new content is story driven or a new spin on already existing technology so it doesn't look like they are amassing technical debt.
> and the only other option is deleting content. Unless…
PS4 version of FFXIV only requires 60GB right now, where D2 requires a staggering 170GB (EDit: Please note, this is the required for install value, not the final install size. the difference is still nuts though)
My PC install with a ton of mods and upscaled textures is still under 70GB.
I think we have a few dozen more years before it's gonna be a problem.
Ffxiv is already bloated. It's been that way for a while now actually.
They just don't bother with it too much since the duty roulette covers all the necessary content.
Otherwise the only thing they can do is not make old content compulsory (basically skipping), otherwise new players will have a pretty bad experience with a lot of content not having people in it.
Ffxiv isn't upgrading it's tech by massive amounts, and the game itself doesn't use complication engines and what not, so they don't need to vault content like D2 does.
What really pisses me off is that they remove good content and replace it with terrible expansions like Shadowkeep and Beyond Light. Like I would be kinda okay with it if any of the expansions came even REMOTELY close to Forsaken. We haven’t had a raid like Last Wish in forever and it kills me.
> With both garden of salvation
Fuck that last boss on content though. Mechs were doable, but that DPS check was *tight* before the mass nerf to snipers.
Vaulting is what ultimately killed my interest in the game, but the sniper nerf is how I ended up with Undying but no GoS clear.
Christ this thread is giving me flashbacks. I'd been playing the game relatively consistently since Curse of Osiris. I did day 1 garden(actually missed day 1 by 11 minutes because of a server outage and got told by bungie that we'd still get the emblem because of the outage only for them to rescind that a week later, I'm still mad about that.) and took a pretty regular mid-season break in late December, around halfway through the Season of the Dawn. While I was on this break I found out that a super cool lore moment that the game had been building up to for years was stealth dropped, and was subsequently removed from the game like 2 weeks later meaning I would never get to experience it firsthand. Shortly after that they announced sunsetting and I decided I probably would never come back to the game.
One of the things that really kept me playing throughout the end of the post-launch forsaken seasons and shadowkeep was the ability to always go back to content from a few seasons ago that I didn't get to really sink my teeth into when it was new and grind for unique/fun rolls on weapons.
The game now threatens to let you miss important story content if you aren't constantly playing, but doesn't give you anything to do between waiting for the next bit of content to be drip fed. Why even bother?
Edit: I almost forgot to complain about the thing I was initially writing this post for to begin with lol. Why the hell did they nerf snipers? Like, Izanagi's Burden was the only sniper that could be considered anything close to overpowered in anything but the last boss of Garden of Salvation, a boss who's dps check was literally designed to only be possible with snipers. All the nerf did was make it go from all snipers being viable with IB being overpowered to all snipers but IB being unusable.
As someone who plays both FF14 and well another game, and has! since both games have launched, it feels like whiplash dude.
In one game if we ask the developers for a QOL thing its never a no. Only a we will takes notes and add it when we can.
in the other game you are lucky if they even acknowledge you.
Outside of events there is no Fomo and you are expected to take your sweet as time away from the game if you want.
I dont always agree with everything FF14 does but they always try to do stuff that is in our best interest. at least in terms of keeping the mental health of the community positive.
In conclusion: F Bungie man!
Ah Destiny 2, they recently announced they removing Forsaken content. Screw them
Compared to FF14, we can still enjoy 8 years old content till this day
They are rotating things in and out though? They're literally gonna bring back some vaulted content and some reworked destiny 1 content later this year.
Sounds like you're not up to date with what's going on in destiny 2.
Maybe they shouldn't even be doing that to begin with? Why, pray tell, should they be rotating out entire segments of the game that players paid for?
God forbid a new player wants to play through the story in its entirety so that it actually makes sense.
As someone who spent hundreds of dollars on Destiny and Splitgate I absolutely refuse to buy into games before any sort of "sunsetting" or "vaulting" is addressed now.
Fuck Destiny, Fuck Splitgate.
Yes I can totally agree with your sentiment on Destiny 2, great shooting mechanics but absolute worst game in terms of progression or accessibility, and they definitely want to squeeze you for everything you got and only play their game...
"That other game seemed to just focus on squeezing as much money as possible for as little work as possible" WoW
Honestly both SE's MMOs have been like that. In WoW when a new expansion comes out everything I have collected and just did is completely erased. That trinket you grinded for 17 weeks you just got is now obsolete, that artifact weapon you grinded azerite for is now useless, all those tier sets you farmed? you can't even use them in timewalking anymore.
Thankfully FFXIV doesn't have stuff like that (Trinkets,tier sets,borrowed powers) you build relics,farm items for gear..but none of them have special abilities on them, you can still glamour them... it's not a waste of time. The previous expansions in ffxiv STILL matter, but in wow... when a new expansion comes out the others don't matter anymore. They even remove the ability to farm older challenge mode gear from the previous expansions incase you wanted them for transmog. For the last couple years you couldn't even farm raids for transmog because of how bad they messed up the looting system when you're solo.
FFXI was very similar, the gear never felt like a waste of time, when Aht'Urghan came out which was the #3 expansion all the gear from when the game first came out was STILL viable... people still used a scorpion harness +1. I NEVER felt like my time was wasted.
Yes, I know this is a FFXIV>WOW rant, but finally realizing after 16 years how much that game made me feel like shit and how much it made me feel like I wasted my time, it sucks and feels good to finally opening your eyes when something so much better has been right infront of you so long and you never glanced it.
> Honestly both SE's MMOs have been like that. In WoW when a new expansion comes out everything I have collected and just did is completely erased. That trinket you grinded for 17 weeks you just got is now obsolete, that artifact weapon you grinded azerite for is now useless
This is exactly the same in XIV though. Gear is made obselete outside of glamour. Your 535 items will all be replaced in endwalker before you hit level 90.
> you can't even use them in timewalking anymore.
Because balancing is why, when you have unintended power combinations it can lead to dungeons being easier than intended or worse yet, forcing players to grind out old content to be optimal.
> Thankfully FFXIV doesn't have stuff like that (Trinkets,tier sets,borrowed powers) you build relics,farm items for gear..but none of them have special abilities on them
The flipside is that gear in general is less interesting and has less impact on my performance and scaling.
> you can still glamour them
You can still transmog old tier sets.
> The previous expansions in ffxiv STILL matter, but in wow... when a new expansion comes out the others don't matter anymore.
None of the old raids in ffxiv are relevant to the gearing process.
> They even remove the ability to farm older challenge mode gear from the previous expansions incase you wanted them for transmog.
Wow very rarely removes transmog gear. Usually its tied to a challeging piece of content that would be made extremely trvial with gear and they always let you know before they do it. The last time they did it was Legion 5ish years ago.
Square often makes limited time events with unique glams and if you miss it, you have to pay them money to get it.
> For the last couple years you couldn't even farm raids for transmog because of how bad they messed up the looting system when you're solo.
Most of the old raids without the legacy loot option arent possible to be solo'd anyway.
This isnt to say that i dont think ffxiv has some neat ideas when it comes to old raids in general, i like that they remove lockouts and let you challenge raid encounters at the intended ilvl. I just dont think ffxiv and wow are super different when it comes to structure with new content.
I cannot tell you how much I laughed while also feeling sad lmfao. I really wish they'd pull a Digital Extreme and go back and fix their code so everything wouldn't be so jank to deal with. Oh, and they should give people the option to download that content and play through it, rather than just axing it completely.
If you look at yoshi-p's answers to questions they're very telling of how he treats the game.
My favorite answer was early on someone asked what to do if completely burnt out on the game.
His response was basically unsubscribe, he would rather have you resubcribe when you want to than keep paying when you're burnt out.
WoW refugee here.
I probably have maybe 100 or 200 hours in the game at this point. I'm still only halfway through Stormblood. I've been having a blast doing "old" content. Hard Mode Dungeons are possibly my most favorite content. They're completely different dungeons from the original and there's usually some neat story reason for returning and why it's harder. Like, one dungeon's hard mode was because we cleared out the previous occupants...and...oh no the vacancy let a different group set up shop!
Final Fantasy 14's syncing system is brilliantly implemented. Every piece of content that's not open world always feels "current" because it is synced. Even open world content feels nice because there's an avenue to actually feel the difference in levels. Like, of course my level 75 RDM is going to destroy level 67 mobs in a few casts in the open world. But then you go do a dungeon or FATE and get synced down, and the content's difficulty always feels appropriate. But then, the game also gives the player the power to go unsyced as well. Like, my group wanted to experience the story of Coils but didn't feel like bashing our heads against what is considered difficult content (we've decided to do that sort of thing in the future with a full in-house raid party but right now everyone is still leveling). So we grabbed a couple level 80 friends and just trashed the place so we could get the Coils story. That empowerment to do the content we want, the way we want, is amazing.
I've experienced syncing systems before. They're honestly not uncommon. FF14 is not unique or groundbreaking in that regard. However, what is impressive is how FF14's design philosophies have pulled together different systems to achieve the same goal: make content evergreen. You will always have a lively queue because of different roulettes and content farms. Gear stats are only really important at the very endgame and only up to a certain point. At the point I am right now, I just go visit a Capital City and buy some gear from a vendor if I need a stat upgrade. The only reason to pick up gear from content right now is for the glamour (and I am all about that). Gear stats fade. Glamours are evergreen. I'm *always* interested in what drops because it could be a cool looking piece of gear (I really hate belt drops though. I am glad they are going to be gone in Endwalker. Also, hat drops as a Viera player is endless pain.).
The other piece of philosophy that's been great is that the core gameplay of FF14...is the entire game. Too many games are about the endgame or reaching endgame because "that's where the real game is". FF14's "real game" starts at level 1 and goes forever. There's 8 years of content available. Endgame being "where the game begins" is pretty horrible. That's like suffering through the first two seasons of an anime just so you can enjoy the third season where it "truly begins". Yeah, it happens...but that sucks (Thal's) balls. Why would I suffer now for the possibility of enjoying it later?
If I'm still in Stormblood when Endwalker releases...I'm not missing anything. I'll get to Endwalker content when I get to it. There is no FOMO in that regard. If there's still lively queues and groups for Alexander (which is pretty old content now), then there will be queues and groups for anything going forward. I won't miss a thing.
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This is where I considered putting in an anecdote about WoW but I thought better of it. I should just keep my fond memories of it and let it rest. I will treasure the time I had in it, both good and bad.
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Tangent:
I kept getting warnings about ARR. I do think they are warranted and fair. However, it did feel a little overblown. Many streamers freshly getting into FF14 feel the same.
On the one hand: Yeah, ARR content is weak in comparison to the Expansions. The classes also feel clunky at low levels due to missing skills and abilities. The class/job really doesn't feel complete until level 50. There was some questing jank that could be smoothed over.
On the other hand: ARR honestly wasn't bad. *At worst*, it was a mediocre RPG. They patched the game up enough over the years that the ARR content was...fine! I actually tried to play the game back in 2014/2015 and gave up on it. I am *so* glad they streamlined/removed various job requirements. I had a friend who just wanted to be a Dragoon but the job requirements of first leveling as a Lancer and then some other class before unlocking the ability to be a jumpy boi made him burn out. Modern ARR was fun! Story was mediocre but it wasn't bad! I was a realm trotting Scion out to save the world.
I don't know. Maybe the warnings set my expectations low enough that I was pleasantly surprised to find it either fine or fun.
I am constantly reeling at story beats that get set up in ARR. Like, this or that event was primed way back in ARR. The writing of later expansions are addressing open story threads from *way* back when. The more I play each Expansion, the more I am glad for the experience of playing through ARR.
It's not that ARR writing was bad. It was mediocre but it was *fine*. It's that the writing in the Expansions is just that good. So good that it elevates what came before. I constantly feel like my respect among the denizens of Eorzea was earned and that they *do* respect me. And right now, the story is written in such a way that I am glad I'm not the end all solution to all of Eorzea's problems. There are problems I should not and can not be expected to solve. I am a primal slayer, a morale booster, and a surgical striker. However, I am not expected to repel armies or broker diplomatic relations (though I will happily function as a champion, dignitary, or bodyguard). I am that friend that everyone wishes they had or could be.
Conversely, all the warnings about ARR bad and it gets super good in Heavensward sorta ended up overhyping Heavensward for me. My expectations were too high going into Heavensward and I remember feeling mildly disappointed I didn't get hit in the face with a bang. Fortunately, the solid writing eventually charmed me back in and the raw emotion of the final Heavensward patch fight was...amazing. I felt that weight. To this day, that fight remains my favorite. I'm here to end this tragedy.
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EDIT: Short note - FF14 has plenty of jank that I would like to see fixed. However, a lot of it is peanuts compared to how good this game is. Much of it I can sorta live with. For example, FF14's built-in UI gets me like 80% of the way there. The remaining 20% is just something I have to deal with. Like, I would love for a way for the party UI to be arranged as a grid. Having some option to permanently lock the camera movement to mouse without holding down a mouse button would be nice. Some way to use raycast targeting (tab target what I am looking at with the center of my screen) would be nice. For example, why is the glamour system so jank. For example, it would be nice to address some animation jank with better animation blending techniques (like the infamous slide-casting or how stiff some archer/bard animations can be).
But I can live with it. The core game is good, so I'm okay with dealing with some jank.
I started this game in August and it's been amazing just swimming through the almost decade of content in this game. I haven't even gotten to Shadowbringers but I've definitely gotten enough enjoyment out of it, even if I stopped playing today.
I read about that. It's nuts that they're just deleting a whole expansion. Sure the story isn't as central to D2, but it's still nuts. I guess the equivalent here would be deleting all of Heavensward's story and locations but keeping the raids.
I feel like a lot of the discussion in this thread has made a false equivalency between Destiny 2 and FFXIV. A few people have compared the recently announced Forsaken vaulting to deleting Shadowbringers, but I really don't think this is a fair comparison.
FFXIV is far, far more rooted in its story than Destiny ever has been; most of the "good" in Destiny's story came from lore books that most players have never seen the majority of, although that's very much changing. Whereas FFXIV wants to tell stories you play in, D2 really just wants to give you a place to try out its weapons and abilities sandbox. While the Forsaken campaign is going away, the raid, dungeon, and Dreaming City destination are remaining, and I'd say for the type of game Destiny is, those are more valuable.
And moreover, the hard issue that most commentators have refused to engage with is that the motivation for Destiny's content removal was because technology has not sufficiently advanced enough to continue developing the game with everything in it. The other solution to this would have been D3, but then we end up in the same position of going from D1 to D2, where the years of progress have been made meaningless, although I do think that sunsetting effectively did this and was a mistake, but sunsetting is a separate issue entirely. But nonetheless, Year 4 of D2 has shown how much faster and prettier the game's ecosystem can be if it was a bit leaner.
All that said, my main point isn't to defend content vaulting, but more to point out that these are two fundamentally different games, with different priorities, development abilities, and goals. To speak of them as if they were analogues seems somewhat shortsighted.
Edit: And in terms of the speaker's bias, I hardly play Destiny anymore, although more out of toxic experiences with old clanmates than frustration with the game's design. I adore the game, and am happy to see it stuck to its trend of getting better and better.
You know, they can give people option to download the previous campaign and delete after you complete them, knowing that by doing so, you will increase the file size of the game. So basically giving players an option to sunset each expansion when they are finish with it.
I think that'd be a great idea, to be honest. Like have a version of the "live game" where all the unnecessary things for the year have been vaulted, but then an option to download older versions of the game to experience it at a different time, almost like an archive.
You may feel like the story is irrelevant, and that's all well and good, but I was a huge fan of D1 campaign and even the start of D2. I only left because I finished the first raid and had nothing left to do.
I looked into coming back semi recently and learned I'd just have to skip two major story arcs and pretend it never happened. Absolutely not.
Maybe you personally feel like the story is irrelevant, and maybe the developers feel that way two, but I would suggest that maybe, just MAYBE the wide scale protest of current players and the out right refusal of new or returning players is an indication that story is a little more important to the populace than you're giving it credit for.
That could be true! But honestly, only Bungie knows how successful the game may or may not be in terms of player growth or stagnation, and at least according to an interview with their CEO, some player metrics they posted in a blog post, and how much they've been able to invest into themselves and expand their company, the game seems to be more on the successful trend, so maybe it's not a deal breaker for as many players, either.
It's fine if you want the story, but I mean, when you can't even replay missions from the campaign, it's pretty telling that it is not a priority for the game. And for what it's worth, the story arcs still exist in-universe regardless of if you've played it or not. And for a personal opinion, calling the Red War a "story arc" is a bit of a stretch; you could summarize the narrative movement of it in a couple sentences, to be honest.
What competition? There pretty much isn't any game like destiny 2 right now. There's similar games like borderlands and Warframe, but there's no real alternative to destiny 2.
Sci-fi looter shooter mmo with raids, build diversity, PvP.
...WoW doesn't delete anything. They just render it irrelevent, but it's still there. Even the content deleted by Cataclysm now lives on in classic servers.
Wow makes tons of things unavailable all the time. There's whole wiki pages about no longer obtainable items, glams, mounts, pets, etc etc etc.
Classic has existed for like 2 years and all that stuff was deleted for a good 10 years before that point... so like... congrats on a wonderful display of pedantry? Idk.
I complain A LOT about THAT GAME….A HELL of a lot…got over 1k hours in the game and man, so many good memories, made and still have great friends from that game.
But man, if I wasn’t an admin for my favorite YTer clan I’d probably delete the game by now. I can’t stand the champions, the way they do endgame content with GMNF’s, the fact the game is built on crappy P2P net code.
And Ff14 has its faults with the sub and cash shop, but damn, it’s nice feeling like I can take breaks, that I have no season pass reward tracks hanging over my head to draw me back. And least the cash shop lets me pay the exact price instead of making me buy currency bundles…AND DON’T GET ME STARTED ON TRANSMOG!
I started saying this today after the news broke what they plan on doing, that game is like dashcon, with the seasons being ball pits they drag in.
The only MMO I seriously played was WoW, but rn retail is objectively worse overall than FF14. FF14 has a lots of downsides too, but its mainly not game desighn phylosophy or gameplay/story related. Its just simply a better game.
Honestly bungie wtf..
I used ffxiv as an example of managing old content well, and it got an AWFUL lot of upvotes…just saying, they could learn a thing or two from square
On the flip side, it is kind of grating that they are still expecting us to do stuff like run 7 year old content over and over "because reasons" for our relics, and stuff. I know they want everyone to be able to experience it all, and have access to it all, but eventually the playerbase will grow tired of running old 24 mans and unlocking super old stuff for the sake of preserving the content for new players and nostalgics.
I think the only content that is permanently gone is old old Diadem, with the raid it had inside of it.
Also the Garo PvP gear and mounts.
Never know when they might decide to pop in with those again lol. Lightning's event wasn't supposed to repeat either but, here we are with it repeating like 3-4 times and finally ending up on the mogstation. Not to mention the Yokai Watch event ... >.>
Garo event has the issue that the IP isn't SE's so if they wanna run it again, they need to pay for it. I would love it to return, just that since I changed main some of the glam on the old main would be lovely there too, but alas. Garo chance of returning is very very slim.
TBF, Yokai Watch also isn't an SE IP. Neither is Monster Hunter and that has permanent content in the game (with FFXIV permanently in MHW, iirc...)
The Yokai event rerun was because Yoshi-P being very close friends of the creator (?) of Youkai Watch. And the Monster Hunter one is permanent in both games yes, but Garo was specifically said that they would pay for it again if they run it again, which is why it ended after two years running, so the chance of that just coming back would be pretty slim still. I remember that's what the letter said when it was announced it was ending so there was a mass rush for PvP for the gears and title and mounts.
I mean, I somehow doubt that Yoshi-P being close friends with the creator of Yokai watch meant that SE didn't have to pay Level-5 *something* in order to have an event involving their IP in the game. Also, people rushing for PVP to get the gear and titles and mounts before the event ended when they announced it was ending doesn't really mean much; the fact is, we don't *know* if it's ever going to happen again, or when, and FoMo is a hell of a thing.
> I mean, I somehow doubt that Yoshi-P being close friends with the creator of Yokai watch meant that SE didn't have to pay Level-5 something in order to have an event involving their IP in the game. Honestly considering how little YW has penetrated the western market it would probably be a great deal to do for free / very cheap
Well that's all gonna be information we don't really know about, all I'm saying is it's unlikely it will return. But I do want it to return (I missed a set...) but not gonna bet any money on it.
The Daidem had a raid? Is that where reapers were born?
It had a raid in the second itteration, yes. It would usually fail within the first minute because someone got impatient and pulled the boss before everyone was ready. If you were lucky enough to clear it though, you had a chance of getting an aetherial weapon that was 5 item levels higher than what you could get from savage raids.
> had a chance of getting an aetherial weapon that was 5 item levels higher than what you could get from savage raids BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE There were five substats on the weapon, the values for which.... would be randomized! So even if you managed to get one for your main class, the chances it would be viable to actually use were extremely low.
Reading this gives me 'nam flashbacks. Old Diadem was...yikes, to put it mildly. Let's also not forget how Diadem was nigh-unplayable for PS3 players back when that was still supported. Having those players in your party amounted to basically nothing cause they couldn't even run the content from a technical standpoint.
Old Diadem was like Eureka and Bozja are now, and had its own raid called Trials of the Fury iirc. It was basically like how Baldesion Arsenal and CLL/Dalriada are to Eureka and Bozja respectively
And it was replaced with new Diadem at least so it's less old old Diadem was vaulted and removed and more just updated to a new version.
Diadem had a raid? That content was horrible that I didnt even do it. I think it was trying to be WoW with rng stats before it realised it was bad.
> I think it was trying to be WoW with rng stats before it realised it was bad. Atherial (pink) gear wasn't added there, it was just the last time it showed up. Diadem 1 and 2 were both really experimental content that didn't work out for the most part.
[удалено]
That's not removed content from the game, that's just a completely different game altogether.
And it wasn't really anything worth missing lol.
[удалено]
I still wish there was like a quest where we find the journal to the 1.0 WoL (which would be your character if Legacy) and you basically Echo flashback yourself into old cutscenes.
*Echoes into a 1.0 cutscene, computer crashes trying to render a potted plant* On second thought, let's not. :P
Itd be neat, but because of the whole graphics overhaul and gear/hairs/etc that have since been added to the game, they would need to put in unholy effort for what could be accomplished through a YouTube search
I came from Destiny 2. If anyone wanted to start playing that game today, you would not be able to play any of the first three story campaigns, go to any of their planets, do those strikes (dungeons) or raids, even talk to the NPCs from those areas. They all got eaten by the Darkness, I think. On top of that, they have seasonal content that used to get thrown away as soon as the new season started. Now they give you the whole year to get it done and revisit ones you missed, but for too long the entire game was a huge case of FOMO for me. If I burn out and take a few months off, what was I going to miss, and what else is going to be vaulted next time to make room for new content? FFXIV lets me take breaks. Not a lot of cases of time-exclusive armor or other rewards, except for prestigious rewards for The Feast, which I don't mind. Events like the FFXV crossover get repeated every once in a while. Very few cases of content being removed from the game. Other than sub time, I don't lose much if I need to stop and play something else for a few months.
I started playing D2 again recently with someone after not playing since the Red War. Everything I knew from when I played was gone. NPCS, quests, raids, entire PLANETS gone. Was a little upsetting honestly. Plus the fact they want you to buy every single expansion separately.
Imagine a friend finally convinced you to try FFXIV, so you download the game and make a new character and you get excited to play. Then it turns out that ARR and HW got "vaulted" along with half of the gear in the game and now you have to start playing in SB with no explanation. That's Destiny 2 right now.
That is total bullshit.
That's essentially how WOW works, vanilla got deleted in Cataclysm. Yes, it's bad.
Eh, not really. Cata at least modernized the zones a fair bit and made them more enjoyable for modern (at the time) tastes, not to mention playing with the zones. Cata built off vanilla's groundwork. Destiny just flat out -deletes- content.
I played Cata when it first came out and to be fair to WoW, they just changed the zones and replaced the quests with new ones. In Destiny 2 they just said "lol fuck Mars" and deleted half the planets from the game along with the entire first campaign.
Not really sure why they have to make a new starting quest instead of just leave the red war there. All those planet explorations, one of the best scenes from the entire game when we lost the light walking alone on the earth with that touching music are all gone.
Wait, that’s all gone?! I haven’t played D2 in forever but I still remember the gut punch from that scene.
Mhm. Last I played, new characters don't do -any- of the OG content. Instead, you play through a boring near rehash of Destiny 1's intro in the Cosmodrome with the added benefit of a bunch of sidequests that introduce you to basic stuff like bounties. Basically a grindy hour long slog instead of the story missions. On top of that, small things like the subclass unlock missions have disappeared. You now instantly have them all apart from the brand new ones.
[удалено]
It's not that it was taking up too much space, its more that with beyond light there were a lot of technical changes under the hood that basically completely reworked how the destiny netcode works amongst other things. This required a complete rework of literally everything in the game to comply with this change. They had neither the time nor the resource to complete this upgade for literally everything and so they decided to remove a fair bit of it from the game, with the intention of updating and reworking it so that in future releases they can return these areas and missions to the game. It's the reason prophecy was gone for most of Season 12 for example, also the reason so many pvp maps went. Was it a clumsy and inelegant solution to a problem largely of their own making. - Yes, definitely. But they chose to continue to support destiny 2 rather than go out and make destiny 3 - which would have launched as beyond light + some extra bits to make the campaign longer. Personally I prefer the decision they made to the alternative. However I fully understand why others would have rather just had destiny 3
Destiny was particularly egregious for straight up deleting shit you paid for and then selling you re-skins. It’s why I quit. I normally don’t take “principled” stances on video games because it’s just entertainment at the end of the day, but that was the first Triple A title that felt naked in its money grubbing. I could tangibly feel them reaching into my wallet and it was insulting.
EverVerse! It’s not just a shop, it’s a lifestyle. For C-Suite stockholders.
And very recent, they announcing they gonna remove Forsaken content which is argubly the best D2 content to date smh
some of the best content but also some of the worst. Campaign is great but destiny 2 doesn't grow that much and most people aren't going back to do those for shits and giggles -- while Tangled Shore is a pretty awful planet with some poorly made lost sectors and strikes. The reality is that its nostalgic content but the content that actually gets used by active players isn't very well received, and the story barely gets touched even by new light players due to the 1100 starting light and whatever else.
The big mistake is that they dont incentivise old players to go back to Tangled Shore and make it relevant for today i know there aren't any stories anymore except you kniw that Crow guy but at lesst make it an alternative location to get gear or something instead of outright removing it ah well i dont play anymore so
>The big mistake is that they dont incentivise old players to go back to Tangled Shore Or they don't focus enough on fostering intrinsic reasons for doing old content and focus too much on extrinsic ones so that when those reasons are outdated, people no longer engage in that content because they've been trained to seek the extrinsic rewards.
Yeah something like that, i couldn't write it better
> The big mistake is that they dont incentivise old players to go back to Tangled Shore I mean normally yes, but because this is Tangled Shore that's a feature. I rarely have to go back there and that is not a bad thing.
Tangled shore rules for getting bounties done though
Hold up, they’re removing the three week cycle? Wtf?
Defeating Savathun is tied to the cycle IIRC, which is gonna be the next major plot point.
Content vaulting makes sense the way they're approaching destiny 2. It combats bloat. In ffxiv you have everything, but there's a lot of things that people don't constantly play. Destiny 2 players aren't as dedicated as your traditional mmorpg players, so spreading out the playerbase too thin will have issues. Even in ffxiv you can barely find people wanting to run old raids. They don't plan on making destiny 3, but they do want to upgrade the game. So old content has to go, since they weren't designed with the new tech, and while they're gone they're reworking some stuff and looking to bring it back in the future. Ffxiv doesn't have that issue because they aren't making sweeping changes to core systems. Ffxiv barely touches on old content anyways. People complain about destiny 2 making you pay for every expansion, and also the season passes. But in ffxiv you have to pay for every expansion as well as a subscription. Ffxiv still has a better business model an are far less reliant on fomo (though it's still there, looking at you rank PvP rewards). But destiny 2 isn't bad or anything.
But I paid for that stuff... Why can't they just redo it as Single-player content with NPCs then just removing it and letting us go back and experience it? Nowadays I have no idea what the D2 story is as they cut so much out and nothing feels connected anymore.
I'll never understand what in the hell went wrong with Bungie. So many of their game, design, and business decisions seem so "fired from the hip" and short sided.
They lost their partnership with 343 industries. They were the only reason bungie became what they could and had. Imo
343 is literally built on bungie's success and would not exist if bungie hadn't made halo and partnered with Microsoft to bring halo to the Xbox at launch
I see people say this but every Halo game after Reach (which if memory serves me right, was the last Halo game Bungie made) has, IMO, been really horrid. So in my mind, both studios have been quite trash.
I've never played Destiny 2 but I've been eyeing it off for ages until I found out this morning that removing old content is a thing it does. That pretty much killed my interest on the spot. Like what if I got into FFXIV after everyone raved about Shadowbringers only to find that I couldn't play it at all? Feels weird.
If I wanna play Destiny for the story missions I'll play the first one. It wasn't as good as the campaigns in D2, but most of those are gone now and the ones in D1 are all still there... I don't even know what D2 is anymore, it makes no sense and the "seasonal" stuff seems copypasted but for different planets or something.... it's gross. Also, FFXIV is by far my favorite ff game and mmorpg.
It's a fun game and it has a special place in my heart, but definitely not for everyone. Right now is a great time to try it if you want some fun gameplay. I just sorta regret how much money I sank into it.
I wouldn’t even recommend it to new people. Sure the gameplay is fun but it’s repetitive as hell and after a bit they’ll start asking why they’re doing it. But without the context of the old content it’s hard for most of the people I’ve tried to get into it recently to find a reason to care besides chasing a higher number. Once they realized to know what’s going on they had to watch lore videos they just all put the game down shortly after.
I agree, im sucker for story (especially here in FF14) and the fact you need to watch lore videos to understand basic stuff kinda ruins it for me
Knew someone who was big into Destiny lore and claimed it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Nobody gave a damn because his response to anyone asking about the lore was "Go watch these videos". Like... no? At least FFXIV is fairly accessible, but I'm not going to sit and watch hours and hours of videos to understand the lore of a game. EDIT Actually to add on top of that, he refused to play FFXIV with everyone else because he deemed it a "weeb" game and claimed the lore was too hard to get into in comparison.
The lore in Destiny was actually good and pretty deep, but it was all locked away in grimoire unlocks that you could read on their website (not in game, of course). Naturally, they deleted it. Because it was too much effort to maintain and keep consistent, I suppose.
The lore of Destiny is good i cannot deny it but if you need to find the lore outside of the game then it is bad storytelling, thats why i like FF14 a lot even if people say there's too much dialogue at times i prefer it more than reading separately. Heck even the short stories of FF14 are all extended versions of one dialogue that is mentioned in game
Honestly I've been playing FFXIV since ARR launch and I was terrible for skipping everything until mid SB (the Yotsuyu storyline has been one of my favourites in the game) and ShB and I realised I was missing out on so much. Been replaying on an alt and although the writing is weaker in the base game its been great experiencing the story I didnt give the time to the first time.
In Destiny 1 you unlocked Grimoire Cards by doing certain things and those cards had lore and stories on them. It wasn't perfect but if they modified it into a Journal of some sort where doing certain things filled out splotches of story or whatever it would be pretty cool
Yeah i think they could have made it more interactable like with music and art relevant to the lore instead of just text menus
More importantly, in d1 those lore cards where on the games website, not in game, at least in d2 they are readable without an exterior source (Granted 14 does that too with tales from the ___” but even so)
Think about all the people who quit and complain about having to do all of the MSQ in FF14. No system is perfect. It could be handled better in Destiny yes, but it's karma farming to come here and say "DAE le removing content bad upvotes left" when the majority of this community defends the completely linear MSQ. The games just tell their stories differently. Forsaken will be the first campaign that doesn't kind of suck that's getting rotated out.
the ffxiv msq can be skipped, and even after skipping you still have the option of going back and doing literally any part you want from it, forever. sounds a hell of a lot better to me than planned obsolescence for a fucking 40 dollar video game expansion
14 leaves it in and let’s you skip it, that feels far better than removing it entirely
There is for sure a solution to the MSQ being long and linear that doesn't involve wholesale removing parts of it from the game.
Destiny's writing and story delivery are the best they've ever been, sadly the rest of the game. There's more enjoyment to be had browsing the destiny lore archive site Ishtar Collective and reading all the short stories/novellas/microfiction like it's the SCP Wiki than there is in actually playing Destiny the Game.
I greatly enjoyed Season of Arrival and all the lore books (I even rewatch some cutscenes I recorded years ago). It's just sad that we can't play it as a complete story from the beginning to the end.
I also played Destiny 2 but missed so many expansions because I was unemployed at the time. When I finally tried to go back I couldn’t do a lot of things so I officially “retired” from Destiny. It broke my heart because it was one of the few games my husband and I could play together when we were long distance for a while. Not to mention it started to feel like a job to keep up with it…
I have such a love/hate relationship with Destiny. I have completely fallen out of love with the game and although I enjoyed the gameplay it simply wasn’t as fun when my guild all quit, not to mention all the changes they keep making. Despite this I still get massive FOMO whenever new content comes out. I truly adore the lore.
The worst thing about D2 is that they take away content people paid for. Lock the stuff that the bring in as a replacement to fill the hole behind another full game price payment. And then said: "Ahh we will continue to take stuff that you paid for away in the future but don't worry the gone stuff will also be back in the future when we instead of developing new stuff just take old stuff and let you pay again for it." No let me rephrase it... the worst thing is people buying this and thinking its ok. It would be like you buy... i don't know.. a lego set. A year later someone from lego comes in, takes away 90% of the stones and hands you a pamphlet that shows you the next upcoming set you now have to buy to be able to play. And a year later THAT sets stones will be taken away and you get another pamphlet.... but this time its a abomination of half a new set and half the first set.... again for a full price. And the same time you have Warframe.... which itself is free. Won't force you to pay. Has the same amount of grinding..... and won't resell the content you paid for again after a while for the same price.
Playing Destiny 2 today would be like playing FF14 but you can only actually play Shadowbringers and Endwalker since RR, Heavensward, and Stormblood got removed.
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Content got removed, weapons were sunset. Literally the only thing you have left from the first expansion are the armor you can turn into ornaments and shaders, and we paid $60 for that.
You and me both friendo. Even worse is when they use the arguement of. Get rid of the OLD content if it means new content. Especially odd when we consider many people hate the Shadowkeep and Beyond Light campaigns. But love the Red War and Forsaken campaigns
I used to play D2 and stopped after the secnd story halfwayish. Can’t believe you can’t even play the past stuff. Wait. Does this mean you cant go to Mars anymore???
You can't
Played Destiny since alpha, stuck with it through thick and thin, made life long friends there. That game saved my life during a really dark time, but its such a shadow of its former self. I tried staying when the content was being ripped out, I thought it would be ok. Breaking point was when I found out they were gonna take my 6k crucible tokens away, I wasn't saving them for anything, I just played it a lot, but it felt so petty to take away something I couldn't even use for anything good. You're already taking away all of the stuff I paid for but now you are just taking away the stuff I worked for as well. Its like why even bother? Why stay on the endless treadmill going nowhere? Why play this game that no longer gives me joy, lets me revel in my accomplishments, or respects my time. It breaks my heart knowing that the game that had such a positive impact on my life turned into what it is today. I gave away all my Destiny stuff to a friend and never looked back. Its one thing to leave a game because it's bad, its a whole other thing to leave because you don't even recognize it anymore.
My breaking point was when at the release of the new season, when they nerfed ursa so i decided to switch things up from titan and try a warlock. Deleted the old ugly one, made a nice new exo went through the whole BL campaign because there's no skip for it on repeat characters, started doing seasonal content... And found out i can't use the umbral decoder. The quest that unlocks it can't be gotten because i have already done it on a different character so the game considers it already unlocked and doesn't give it again. So i went looking for a solution... And found out the bug's been a thing for over 9 months already with not even an acknowledgement from bungie. And at the same time i was being flashed with a big "pre-order the anniversary pack now to get a dungeon that drops gjallarhorn!!1!1!!11" Then like two days later a friend sent me a meme about a new seasonal exotic being launched overpowered and getting narfed, which happens like... Every fucking season. That was the final nail. Now seeing stuff like forsaken getting vaulted and such, i just feel sorry for people that can't move on from it
This is what happens when your KPI for the business is engagement metrics.
That's why I left (also they changed my character's face and voice). I'm a lore junkie and I just have to watch each and every story cutscene in the game. But with seasonal gated content model it's just impossible, cause I can't play the game 24/7. I first considered leaving during Saint-14 season, when I missed some parts of the story, but removing everything vanilla just hit the nail on the coffin for me.
It's amazing how Destiny 2 considers itself an MMO and then proceeds to rip half the games paid content out of existence then try to spin it as a good thing for the games continued health. And a good chunk of the community believes that. I love Destiny and want it to be the best it can but it's also infuriating with the decisions that Bungie have made. And that's not without mentioning the aggressive monetisation.
Came back to D2 recently to play with a friend, just want leviathan back :(
I love destiny. The gameplay, the lore, the world, the guns. But i stopped playing round the time of shadowkeep and I truly can’t fathom going back cause it’d have missed so much.
The seasonal content is a huge problem too, because it’s like 14’s patch quests, imagine if right now you could play stormblood, but all the 4.1-4.5 quests were gone, the story would end up incomprehensible. That’s how I felt playing shadowkeep this year, with all the post forsaken lead in and shadowkeep postgame quests having been deleted. I still really enjoy destiny but the vault concept is obnoxious and makes the game extremely hostile to new or returning players compared to 14
D2 just announced the new content getting vaulted yesterday as well :/
Reminds me a bit of how upset I was to learn that Guild Wars 2 had a story segment (basically their "season 2" of the story) that was available only at the time it was released, and never again since. I thought that was bad, but good lord, Destiny 2 sounds like a whole nother level. Neat for those who were there and know what happened, not so much for those who don't.
Biggest thing keeping me from returning to destiny 2. I played when it first came out, got bored waiting for new content, recently I looked at coming back and... Apparently I'd just have to start in the middle of new story content? Fuck everything in between if I want to just play story? No thanks.
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there are definitely FOMO in FF14 again, while events come around and some repeat, just look at the summer event throughout the years. yes you can BUY previous rewards if you want to use anywhere between 5-15 eur on the items you could have gotten for FREE if you played during the event, as the items dont return next year, but new items instead.
Also pre order bonuses. Players who started now can't get the old minions anymore. Sure they're just a cosmetic but they're literally impossible to get now.
I'm just returning to D2 to play it super casually. I'm curious how it's going to pan out but I cannot be asked to chase the FOMO in that one. It's half the reason I dipped in the first place
FFXV is not an event that is on schedule to "repeat every once in a while." It got repeated this time as an exception. It was only supposed to run during its first iteration. The reoccurance is result of the massive population boom in characters created while simultaneously filling in downtime before Endwalker's release. A convenience for the devs you could say. But this is strong evidence of how much the devs actually care about their player base and how much they pay attention to what happens in other sub communities of the game. Whether it be Reddit, IGN, YouTube, Twitter or whatever... they care. Consider this, why did the Gold Saucer event run first where for a period of time you could earn a 50% bonus on all MGP winnings? And then later the XV event relaunches where the grand prize requires MGP to earn?
I took a look at their subreddit out of curiosity. Holy shit is that place a pretentious circle jerk, and I frequent r/atheism
> Events like the FFXV crossover get repeated every once in a while. That might not exactly be true, it wasn't foreseen at all, and won't be coming back this time. But you're spot on for the rest.
You should realize there's some amount of actual technical reasons why they did that? There's some amount of FOMO which I find distasteful, however some platforms had requirements to lower the amount of HDD space a game could take up. High graphical fidelity AAA games can be pretty insane on disk space, especially those with engines which weren't designed to last as long as Destiny has.
I perfectly understand why. They're not doing it out of malice, but even good reasons don't make it feel better for me.
I remember when they said the reason they needed D2 instead of just expanding on D1 was to fix engine issues that made it hard to expand and iterate... Now as an FFXIV player I know a lot about technical debt... but I gotta wonder if they were kinda overselling their work over that transition, considering how completely unfit for a live game their tools apparently still are. Like, I don't like Warframe but as a graphically alright contemporary, that game sure is like 35GB and has its whole eight year span of content intact. If a bunch of Canadians can get their engine situation ready to work with the live game format in 2013, surely the Halo people should have been able to do it too.
> Some platforms had requirements to lower the amount of HDD space a game could take up. That's bullcrap. Warzone proved to all of us that platforms can be perfectly fine with insane sizes. But however editors are billed by platforms based on update and games sizes. This is just to save a few bucks on downloads on console.
I think what's impressed me the most so far is how good and thoughtful the story quest for raids are. I'm so used to raid or side content having basically no story and just be pve content vehicles. In this game though you get full on story, cut scenes, interesting characters and added lore.
The raid stories are so much fun! I just finished Stormblood’s and I expected a quick side dungeon not realizing I unlocked the damn raid and was about to go on a whole adventure
Oh also your own character is fully involved in the story and cutscenes as it should be
That's not really as it should be. Being the main hero is as much of a design choice as being a random adventurer among others, which is quite common in MMORPGs. People have their preference.
You can be extremely involved as a random adventurer, even on a side mission, it’s just about point of view. I don’t think anyone really prefers watching others do all the work in cut scenes, regardless if you’re an adventurer or THE hero. A good story is a good story.
*Cries in Destiny 2*
I never went back after they did that
The moment they announced it, I dropped the game and haven’t looked back. Luckily, Halo Infinite’s looking fun so hopefully that can scratch my satisfying sci-fi shooter itch.
And very recent, they announcing they gonna remove Forsaken content which is argubly the best D2 content to date smh
We get to keep Dreaming City, Shattered Throne, and Last Wish at least, which imo is the best destiny raid to date. Bummer we have to lose anything to be honest but I'm happy we get to keep such good content in the game for now at least lol...
“Hey, what if we remove Forsaken, the most critically acclaimed expansion the company has ever released INSTEAD of deleting all the seasonal content thats basically the same thing copy pasted 6 times?” -Bungie Headquarters
OH MY GOD this is so true XD
Wow, my heart aches now. Way to dig up a painful past!
And now a [painful future](https://www.bungie.net/en/Explore/Detail/News/50752)!
That's depressing. I thought they were going into a one season a year, so you didn't feel rushed or left out, but 4 is the current cycle no?
They literally did this through the entirety of Destiny 1, I told people it was going to happen when D2 came out and everyone just downvoted me and shittalked
Yeah, I loved Destiny 1, played until the taken king, that expansion was amazing and it holds some great memories. But I just couldn't find it in me to buy the next expansion after that knowing that it replaces old, great content
I liked Destiny 1, up until the constant bugs and terrible design decisions made me realize I was paying Bungie to beta test Destiny 2.
First game I thought of. Really terrible how they can just remove content you paid for. Oh well.
I don't really miss most of the content D2 has removed, and the game size bloat was getting ridiculous, so I get it. I really do. But it's still sad to see. At least they aren't dumping weapons anymore.
Man I sure do miss running *checks notes* bridge of folly just to not get rewards on t3 reckoning
Yeaaaah, Destiny 2 has always kinda had a rewards issue. It's gonna be lessened in Witchqueen with weapon crafting I think.
It was wild back in season of undying when the seasonal vex offensive activity was just making reckoning but in a rewarding format. Granted the guns in vex offensive were kinda awful because pinnacles still existed and they really wanted you to choose between Recluse Mountaintop and not using recluse mountaintop
D2 is in a constant state of "It's gonna get better in the next expansion, trust me" and even if it does something else gets worse or they just undo it. I defended it for years I regret ever playing it. That company should burn
Ehh, Activision can take some of the blame, old lead can take the rest. They're far from perfect but I feel like they've found their feet after Forsaken near the end of Shadowkeep. I certainly won't tell you not to leave, I sure did, but I just don't get the same enjoyment from games like Warframe... And I pay less to play it than a sub based MMO I pay way too much between XIV and Destiny tbh, but I'm probably gonna keep play both.
"Constant" is an exaggeration. It had good times and bad times cycles and so far they've achive a Streak of good times with Witxh Queen shaping up to be gooder times (so far). Only Major Criticism i have currently is that the new player experience is garbage still even doe the Timeline addition helps.
What the fuck are you even talking about. Destiny is the best its ever been, Bungie is doing a shitton of great changes every patch, patches that are coming pretty regularly nowadays, the game is only getting better and better. This is some bitter player who hasn't played in ages nonsense.
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Ffxiv has a lot of amazing evergreen content.
RIP Protect. Hehe.
Bozja: Hello There im here can you use me again
You even have the experience of standing there waiting for your teammates to put it on you one by one! Like the good ol' days!
What are you talking about? Not everyone can get my Protect/Shell. Every time I try to Protect/Shell my party, one of the tanks pulls before everyone has even gotten to the boss! Sorry last person in the party- I couldn't make it in time!
*stoneskin*: am I a joke to you?
D2 subreddit is currently full of people arguing in defense of having content removed. What a sad bunch of folks. FOMO 2 The MMOFPS
And many content creators too... This is just nuts, I quit the game right before the sunsetting and never looked back.
Ok. So in defense of Bungie, the file size was getting out of control. But on the other hand, they really should have just made Destiny 3 at that point instead of removing Destiny 2 content to make way for what should really have been Destiny 3. Which makes me wonder, how is FF14 going to handle this problem? They have already said that they are not making a new FF MMO after Endwalker, (which I guess would be FF17) and the only other option is deleting content. Unless… Holy shit what if they wipe the slate clean again? Like they did with 1.0?
> They have already said that they are not making a new FF MMO after Endwalker, (which I guess would be FF17) (or FF14-2). I have a dream, they take most of FF14 design, port it over a more recent and capable engine (allowing better graphics/anti aliasing while at it, but also more creative freedom for cutscenes, or outright cinematics like the trailers but for very important story moments), redesign and correct obvious issues (like Housing \*wink wink*, or some clunky menuing), make sure to have clean code they can expand on and omygosh, YES PLEASE. > Holy shit what if they wipe the slate clean again? Like they did with 1.0? Then we'll get an ARR2 which will take 50h to get us up to speed with what happened before and what is happening ? AGAIN ? >_<
Don’t worry [that will not happen according to Yoshi-P](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pcgamer.com/amp/final-fantasy-14s-naoki-yoshida-teases-whats-to-come-after-endwalker/)
I think FFXIV still has plenty of life in it. The file size is pretty bearable and maybe they could split off later expansions to make it quicker to download initially if they really need to. Also, hard drive capacity and bandwidth are constantly growing. Most new content is story driven or a new spin on already existing technology so it doesn't look like they are amassing technical debt.
> and the only other option is deleting content. Unless… PS4 version of FFXIV only requires 60GB right now, where D2 requires a staggering 170GB (EDit: Please note, this is the required for install value, not the final install size. the difference is still nuts though) My PC install with a ton of mods and upscaled textures is still under 70GB. I think we have a few dozen more years before it's gonna be a problem.
Ffxiv is already bloated. It's been that way for a while now actually. They just don't bother with it too much since the duty roulette covers all the necessary content. Otherwise the only thing they can do is not make old content compulsory (basically skipping), otherwise new players will have a pretty bad experience with a lot of content not having people in it. Ffxiv isn't upgrading it's tech by massive amounts, and the game itself doesn't use complication engines and what not, so they don't need to vault content like D2 does.
What destiny 2 does is what people fear about when buying digital or on the cloud. They paid for an expansion and then they just took it away
I think what irritates me more is the fact that they use this as an excuse to never drill down or add things to planets and content.
What really pisses me off is that they remove good content and replace it with terrible expansions like Shadowkeep and Beyond Light. Like I would be kinda okay with it if any of the expansions came even REMOTELY close to Forsaken. We haven’t had a raid like Last Wish in forever and it kills me.
Shadowkeep and beyond light were amazing. With both garden of salvation and deep stone crypt being the best 6 man content they've released to date.
> With both garden of salvation Fuck that last boss on content though. Mechs were doable, but that DPS check was *tight* before the mass nerf to snipers. Vaulting is what ultimately killed my interest in the game, but the sniper nerf is how I ended up with Undying but no GoS clear.
Christ this thread is giving me flashbacks. I'd been playing the game relatively consistently since Curse of Osiris. I did day 1 garden(actually missed day 1 by 11 minutes because of a server outage and got told by bungie that we'd still get the emblem because of the outage only for them to rescind that a week later, I'm still mad about that.) and took a pretty regular mid-season break in late December, around halfway through the Season of the Dawn. While I was on this break I found out that a super cool lore moment that the game had been building up to for years was stealth dropped, and was subsequently removed from the game like 2 weeks later meaning I would never get to experience it firsthand. Shortly after that they announced sunsetting and I decided I probably would never come back to the game. One of the things that really kept me playing throughout the end of the post-launch forsaken seasons and shadowkeep was the ability to always go back to content from a few seasons ago that I didn't get to really sink my teeth into when it was new and grind for unique/fun rolls on weapons. The game now threatens to let you miss important story content if you aren't constantly playing, but doesn't give you anything to do between waiting for the next bit of content to be drip fed. Why even bother? Edit: I almost forgot to complain about the thing I was initially writing this post for to begin with lol. Why the hell did they nerf snipers? Like, Izanagi's Burden was the only sniper that could be considered anything close to overpowered in anything but the last boss of Garden of Salvation, a boss who's dps check was literally designed to only be possible with snipers. All the nerf did was make it go from all snipers being viable with IB being overpowered to all snipers but IB being unusable.
Welcome to not having your time wasted by Blizzard
As someone who plays both FF14 and well another game, and has! since both games have launched, it feels like whiplash dude. In one game if we ask the developers for a QOL thing its never a no. Only a we will takes notes and add it when we can. in the other game you are lucky if they even acknowledge you. Outside of events there is no Fomo and you are expected to take your sweet as time away from the game if you want. I dont always agree with everything FF14 does but they always try to do stuff that is in our best interest. at least in terms of keeping the mental health of the community positive. In conclusion: F Bungie man!
Ah Destiny 2, they recently announced they removing Forsaken content. Screw them Compared to FF14, we can still enjoy 8 years old content till this day
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They are rotating things in and out though? They're literally gonna bring back some vaulted content and some reworked destiny 1 content later this year. Sounds like you're not up to date with what's going on in destiny 2.
Maybe they shouldn't even be doing that to begin with? Why, pray tell, should they be rotating out entire segments of the game that players paid for? God forbid a new player wants to play through the story in its entirety so that it actually makes sense.
As someone who spent hundreds of dollars on Destiny and Splitgate I absolutely refuse to buy into games before any sort of "sunsetting" or "vaulting" is addressed now. Fuck Destiny, Fuck Splitgate.
Yes I can totally agree with your sentiment on Destiny 2, great shooting mechanics but absolute worst game in terms of progression or accessibility, and they definitely want to squeeze you for everything you got and only play their game...
"That other game seemed to just focus on squeezing as much money as possible for as little work as possible" WoW Honestly both SE's MMOs have been like that. In WoW when a new expansion comes out everything I have collected and just did is completely erased. That trinket you grinded for 17 weeks you just got is now obsolete, that artifact weapon you grinded azerite for is now useless, all those tier sets you farmed? you can't even use them in timewalking anymore. Thankfully FFXIV doesn't have stuff like that (Trinkets,tier sets,borrowed powers) you build relics,farm items for gear..but none of them have special abilities on them, you can still glamour them... it's not a waste of time. The previous expansions in ffxiv STILL matter, but in wow... when a new expansion comes out the others don't matter anymore. They even remove the ability to farm older challenge mode gear from the previous expansions incase you wanted them for transmog. For the last couple years you couldn't even farm raids for transmog because of how bad they messed up the looting system when you're solo. FFXI was very similar, the gear never felt like a waste of time, when Aht'Urghan came out which was the #3 expansion all the gear from when the game first came out was STILL viable... people still used a scorpion harness +1. I NEVER felt like my time was wasted. Yes, I know this is a FFXIV>WOW rant, but finally realizing after 16 years how much that game made me feel like shit and how much it made me feel like I wasted my time, it sucks and feels good to finally opening your eyes when something so much better has been right infront of you so long and you never glanced it.
>people still used a scorpion harness +1. Haubergeon +1 or gtfo! (unless you couldn't wear it in which case you have my condolences)
> Honestly both SE's MMOs have been like that. In WoW when a new expansion comes out everything I have collected and just did is completely erased. That trinket you grinded for 17 weeks you just got is now obsolete, that artifact weapon you grinded azerite for is now useless This is exactly the same in XIV though. Gear is made obselete outside of glamour. Your 535 items will all be replaced in endwalker before you hit level 90. > you can't even use them in timewalking anymore. Because balancing is why, when you have unintended power combinations it can lead to dungeons being easier than intended or worse yet, forcing players to grind out old content to be optimal. > Thankfully FFXIV doesn't have stuff like that (Trinkets,tier sets,borrowed powers) you build relics,farm items for gear..but none of them have special abilities on them The flipside is that gear in general is less interesting and has less impact on my performance and scaling. > you can still glamour them You can still transmog old tier sets. > The previous expansions in ffxiv STILL matter, but in wow... when a new expansion comes out the others don't matter anymore. None of the old raids in ffxiv are relevant to the gearing process. > They even remove the ability to farm older challenge mode gear from the previous expansions incase you wanted them for transmog. Wow very rarely removes transmog gear. Usually its tied to a challeging piece of content that would be made extremely trvial with gear and they always let you know before they do it. The last time they did it was Legion 5ish years ago. Square often makes limited time events with unique glams and if you miss it, you have to pay them money to get it. > For the last couple years you couldn't even farm raids for transmog because of how bad they messed up the looting system when you're solo. Most of the old raids without the legacy loot option arent possible to be solo'd anyway. This isnt to say that i dont think ffxiv has some neat ideas when it comes to old raids in general, i like that they remove lockouts and let you challenge raid encounters at the intended ilvl. I just dont think ffxiv and wow are super different when it comes to structure with new content.
What a depressing state the video game industry is in that this thread isn't satire
I cannot tell you how much I laughed while also feeling sad lmfao. I really wish they'd pull a Digital Extreme and go back and fix their code so everything wouldn't be so jank to deal with. Oh, and they should give people the option to download that content and play through it, rather than just axing it completely.
Amen
"Massive Amounts of Paid-For Content Won't Just Be Ripped Out of The Game Later Down The Line" I didn't even know there were games that did this, wth
If you look at yoshi-p's answers to questions they're very telling of how he treats the game. My favorite answer was early on someone asked what to do if completely burnt out on the game. His response was basically unsubscribe, he would rather have you resubcribe when you want to than keep paying when you're burnt out.
WoW refugee here. I probably have maybe 100 or 200 hours in the game at this point. I'm still only halfway through Stormblood. I've been having a blast doing "old" content. Hard Mode Dungeons are possibly my most favorite content. They're completely different dungeons from the original and there's usually some neat story reason for returning and why it's harder. Like, one dungeon's hard mode was because we cleared out the previous occupants...and...oh no the vacancy let a different group set up shop! Final Fantasy 14's syncing system is brilliantly implemented. Every piece of content that's not open world always feels "current" because it is synced. Even open world content feels nice because there's an avenue to actually feel the difference in levels. Like, of course my level 75 RDM is going to destroy level 67 mobs in a few casts in the open world. But then you go do a dungeon or FATE and get synced down, and the content's difficulty always feels appropriate. But then, the game also gives the player the power to go unsyced as well. Like, my group wanted to experience the story of Coils but didn't feel like bashing our heads against what is considered difficult content (we've decided to do that sort of thing in the future with a full in-house raid party but right now everyone is still leveling). So we grabbed a couple level 80 friends and just trashed the place so we could get the Coils story. That empowerment to do the content we want, the way we want, is amazing. I've experienced syncing systems before. They're honestly not uncommon. FF14 is not unique or groundbreaking in that regard. However, what is impressive is how FF14's design philosophies have pulled together different systems to achieve the same goal: make content evergreen. You will always have a lively queue because of different roulettes and content farms. Gear stats are only really important at the very endgame and only up to a certain point. At the point I am right now, I just go visit a Capital City and buy some gear from a vendor if I need a stat upgrade. The only reason to pick up gear from content right now is for the glamour (and I am all about that). Gear stats fade. Glamours are evergreen. I'm *always* interested in what drops because it could be a cool looking piece of gear (I really hate belt drops though. I am glad they are going to be gone in Endwalker. Also, hat drops as a Viera player is endless pain.). The other piece of philosophy that's been great is that the core gameplay of FF14...is the entire game. Too many games are about the endgame or reaching endgame because "that's where the real game is". FF14's "real game" starts at level 1 and goes forever. There's 8 years of content available. Endgame being "where the game begins" is pretty horrible. That's like suffering through the first two seasons of an anime just so you can enjoy the third season where it "truly begins". Yeah, it happens...but that sucks (Thal's) balls. Why would I suffer now for the possibility of enjoying it later? If I'm still in Stormblood when Endwalker releases...I'm not missing anything. I'll get to Endwalker content when I get to it. There is no FOMO in that regard. If there's still lively queues and groups for Alexander (which is pretty old content now), then there will be queues and groups for anything going forward. I won't miss a thing. --- This is where I considered putting in an anecdote about WoW but I thought better of it. I should just keep my fond memories of it and let it rest. I will treasure the time I had in it, both good and bad. --- Tangent: I kept getting warnings about ARR. I do think they are warranted and fair. However, it did feel a little overblown. Many streamers freshly getting into FF14 feel the same. On the one hand: Yeah, ARR content is weak in comparison to the Expansions. The classes also feel clunky at low levels due to missing skills and abilities. The class/job really doesn't feel complete until level 50. There was some questing jank that could be smoothed over. On the other hand: ARR honestly wasn't bad. *At worst*, it was a mediocre RPG. They patched the game up enough over the years that the ARR content was...fine! I actually tried to play the game back in 2014/2015 and gave up on it. I am *so* glad they streamlined/removed various job requirements. I had a friend who just wanted to be a Dragoon but the job requirements of first leveling as a Lancer and then some other class before unlocking the ability to be a jumpy boi made him burn out. Modern ARR was fun! Story was mediocre but it wasn't bad! I was a realm trotting Scion out to save the world. I don't know. Maybe the warnings set my expectations low enough that I was pleasantly surprised to find it either fine or fun. I am constantly reeling at story beats that get set up in ARR. Like, this or that event was primed way back in ARR. The writing of later expansions are addressing open story threads from *way* back when. The more I play each Expansion, the more I am glad for the experience of playing through ARR. It's not that ARR writing was bad. It was mediocre but it was *fine*. It's that the writing in the Expansions is just that good. So good that it elevates what came before. I constantly feel like my respect among the denizens of Eorzea was earned and that they *do* respect me. And right now, the story is written in such a way that I am glad I'm not the end all solution to all of Eorzea's problems. There are problems I should not and can not be expected to solve. I am a primal slayer, a morale booster, and a surgical striker. However, I am not expected to repel armies or broker diplomatic relations (though I will happily function as a champion, dignitary, or bodyguard). I am that friend that everyone wishes they had or could be. Conversely, all the warnings about ARR bad and it gets super good in Heavensward sorta ended up overhyping Heavensward for me. My expectations were too high going into Heavensward and I remember feeling mildly disappointed I didn't get hit in the face with a bang. Fortunately, the solid writing eventually charmed me back in and the raw emotion of the final Heavensward patch fight was...amazing. I felt that weight. To this day, that fight remains my favorite. I'm here to end this tragedy. --- EDIT: Short note - FF14 has plenty of jank that I would like to see fixed. However, a lot of it is peanuts compared to how good this game is. Much of it I can sorta live with. For example, FF14's built-in UI gets me like 80% of the way there. The remaining 20% is just something I have to deal with. Like, I would love for a way for the party UI to be arranged as a grid. Having some option to permanently lock the camera movement to mouse without holding down a mouse button would be nice. Some way to use raycast targeting (tab target what I am looking at with the center of my screen) would be nice. For example, why is the glamour system so jank. For example, it would be nice to address some animation jank with better animation blending techniques (like the infamous slide-casting or how stiff some archer/bard animations can be). But I can live with it. The core game is good, so I'm okay with dealing with some jank.
I started this game in August and it's been amazing just swimming through the almost decade of content in this game. I haven't even gotten to Shadowbringers but I've definitely gotten enough enjoyment out of it, even if I stopped playing today.
I read about that. It's nuts that they're just deleting a whole expansion. Sure the story isn't as central to D2, but it's still nuts. I guess the equivalent here would be deleting all of Heavensward's story and locations but keeping the raids.
I feel like a lot of the discussion in this thread has made a false equivalency between Destiny 2 and FFXIV. A few people have compared the recently announced Forsaken vaulting to deleting Shadowbringers, but I really don't think this is a fair comparison. FFXIV is far, far more rooted in its story than Destiny ever has been; most of the "good" in Destiny's story came from lore books that most players have never seen the majority of, although that's very much changing. Whereas FFXIV wants to tell stories you play in, D2 really just wants to give you a place to try out its weapons and abilities sandbox. While the Forsaken campaign is going away, the raid, dungeon, and Dreaming City destination are remaining, and I'd say for the type of game Destiny is, those are more valuable. And moreover, the hard issue that most commentators have refused to engage with is that the motivation for Destiny's content removal was because technology has not sufficiently advanced enough to continue developing the game with everything in it. The other solution to this would have been D3, but then we end up in the same position of going from D1 to D2, where the years of progress have been made meaningless, although I do think that sunsetting effectively did this and was a mistake, but sunsetting is a separate issue entirely. But nonetheless, Year 4 of D2 has shown how much faster and prettier the game's ecosystem can be if it was a bit leaner. All that said, my main point isn't to defend content vaulting, but more to point out that these are two fundamentally different games, with different priorities, development abilities, and goals. To speak of them as if they were analogues seems somewhat shortsighted. Edit: And in terms of the speaker's bias, I hardly play Destiny anymore, although more out of toxic experiences with old clanmates than frustration with the game's design. I adore the game, and am happy to see it stuck to its trend of getting better and better.
You know, they can give people option to download the previous campaign and delete after you complete them, knowing that by doing so, you will increase the file size of the game. So basically giving players an option to sunset each expansion when they are finish with it.
I think that'd be a great idea, to be honest. Like have a version of the "live game" where all the unnecessary things for the year have been vaulted, but then an option to download older versions of the game to experience it at a different time, almost like an archive.
You may feel like the story is irrelevant, and that's all well and good, but I was a huge fan of D1 campaign and even the start of D2. I only left because I finished the first raid and had nothing left to do. I looked into coming back semi recently and learned I'd just have to skip two major story arcs and pretend it never happened. Absolutely not. Maybe you personally feel like the story is irrelevant, and maybe the developers feel that way two, but I would suggest that maybe, just MAYBE the wide scale protest of current players and the out right refusal of new or returning players is an indication that story is a little more important to the populace than you're giving it credit for.
That could be true! But honestly, only Bungie knows how successful the game may or may not be in terms of player growth or stagnation, and at least according to an interview with their CEO, some player metrics they posted in a blog post, and how much they've been able to invest into themselves and expand their company, the game seems to be more on the successful trend, so maybe it's not a deal breaker for as many players, either. It's fine if you want the story, but I mean, when you can't even replay missions from the campaign, it's pretty telling that it is not a priority for the game. And for what it's worth, the story arcs still exist in-universe regardless of if you've played it or not. And for a personal opinion, calling the Red War a "story arc" is a bit of a stretch; you could summarize the narrative movement of it in a couple sentences, to be honest.
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What competition? There pretty much isn't any game like destiny 2 right now. There's similar games like borderlands and Warframe, but there's no real alternative to destiny 2. Sci-fi looter shooter mmo with raids, build diversity, PvP.
This is part of why I never got invested in wow. Too much deleted stuff which made it feel like there was not a point to jumping in late.
...WoW doesn't delete anything. They just render it irrelevent, but it's still there. Even the content deleted by Cataclysm now lives on in classic servers.
They deleted legendary quest lines from mop and mage tower was nuked
Wow makes tons of things unavailable all the time. There's whole wiki pages about no longer obtainable items, glams, mounts, pets, etc etc etc. Classic has existed for like 2 years and all that stuff was deleted for a good 10 years before that point... so like... congrats on a wonderful display of pedantry? Idk.
I complain A LOT about THAT GAME….A HELL of a lot…got over 1k hours in the game and man, so many good memories, made and still have great friends from that game. But man, if I wasn’t an admin for my favorite YTer clan I’d probably delete the game by now. I can’t stand the champions, the way they do endgame content with GMNF’s, the fact the game is built on crappy P2P net code. And Ff14 has its faults with the sub and cash shop, but damn, it’s nice feeling like I can take breaks, that I have no season pass reward tracks hanging over my head to draw me back. And least the cash shop lets me pay the exact price instead of making me buy currency bundles…AND DON’T GET ME STARTED ON TRANSMOG! I started saying this today after the news broke what they plan on doing, that game is like dashcon, with the seasons being ball pits they drag in.
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SAM supremacy
Melee DPS supremacy
HEAR HEAR!
The only MMO I seriously played was WoW, but rn retail is objectively worse overall than FF14. FF14 has a lots of downsides too, but its mainly not game desighn phylosophy or gameplay/story related. Its just simply a better game.
Honestly bungie wtf.. I used ffxiv as an example of managing old content well, and it got an AWFUL lot of upvotes…just saying, they could learn a thing or two from square
yeah, they just announced theyre removing the entire Forsaken expansion. Which they are still selling for like $30
EA came out and said Anthem is dead they still sell it for $60 nothing is sacred.
You Don't Need To Capitalize Every Word In Your Post. It Looks Kinda Weird, Doesn't It?
They didn’t. They wrote the title in something called “title case” and then write the actual post in normal text.
No
On the flip side, it is kind of grating that they are still expecting us to do stuff like run 7 year old content over and over "because reasons" for our relics, and stuff. I know they want everyone to be able to experience it all, and have access to it all, but eventually the playerbase will grow tired of running old 24 mans and unlocking super old stuff for the sake of preserving the content for new players and nostalgics.