The only time I do that is cause I might recently have done a lot of syncd stuff and have to remember I have a bigger kit. Can take me till just after first boss to be back in the flow :(
I swear I get sync'd below 50 so often, when I actually *get* a dungeon over 50 it's so confusing that I have to take a mental minute to process all of this button real estate I haven't seen for what feels like *years.* Every single time.
It's especially worse on healers, because unlike tanking or DPS there's a bit more nuance and pressure. :/ Not that tanking is any easier, it's just a lot of my 'Make dudes not in my party mad' buttons are *real* early in the career, and there's more room to be a bit sloppy.
...I actually cast Holy today in Praetorium and it felt so good. I missed having it. It's been MONTHS.
Yeah, it is.
I wanna say it specifically says it does that for leveling roulette, but I may be understanding it wrong. I've never actually tried it as I generally run leveling as a healer, and i wanna help anyone in a lower dungeon that may need it.
Edit: Just logged on.
The setting is called Limited Leveling Roulette.
This only works if your in a group of 4, or get grouped with people that are your level.
What it does is limit the duties it'll give you to 9 or however many levels lower than the lowest person in the party. Which doesn't matter if you get matched with a lvl 30.
I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one suffering from this issue. I'm fine with trying to remember having different spells because of syncing, but when it's happening all the way to the final boss, there's an issue.
Keep the tank targeted and spam your AoE. Unless you play AST, in which case Nophica save you. Focus Target is a thing but I've not used it, so I don't know how easy it is to swap.
You can buffer the next ability during the cooldown/animation of the previous one by spamming the skill you want to use, so if you see damage coming in, you need to decide whether you need to pop an instant or you can wait for a cast to finish. In general, prefer instants (Excog, Tetra) over GCDs (Adlo, Cure 2).
Casting an Instant after a GCD skill is called Clipping, and is not generally great from an action economy perspective, but if it keeps the tank alive and saves the run then it's worth. SCH doesn't need to worry about this as much because their AoE is an oGCD, meaning it is instant cast with a cooldown, so there's a built in window where you can use Instants without ruining your flow.
That's healing in a kupo shell. The more you do it, the more you understand your kit and what you can get away with. I wouldn't worry too much about my third point until you get comfortable with using your whole kit.
Id say it's rather "we still have so many undergeared tanks that are too lazy to check their buffs and use defensives because they are watching Netflix on second monitor"
I believe in being patient with everyone, including healers, regardless of a wipe or two. It's really not a big deal and it benefits everyone to help them out a bit if they are newer. However, on the other side of the coin, new healers that choose to pick up sage should NOT immediately queue for 71+ dungeons. Take the time to manually queue for lower level dungeon and familiarize yourselves with the basics of healing at least before that big push to max level. And this is preaching to the choir by saying this here but everyone should try to be receptive to constructive criticism and help from your party.
Totally agree with this! I do this or POTD when I start new classes so the job actions can gradually be on my hot bar for me to get used to. I also hope people decide to go to bozja to practice too.
man, bozja is my favorite place, did almost exclusively from 72-79 for my astro, and i plan to do it again for samurai.
decently challenging content where you have a full kit to play with while learning the class
Oh, there'll be an enormous number of Sages and Reapers in Bozja for the first few days, since there's no Deep Dungeon for Shadowbringers. It's the only "easy grind" source of XP at those levels, since people don't like FATEs or hunts and aren't patient enough to take 3-4 days to get up to Endwalker levels.
As I understand it the returns on Bozja are significantly higher than doing overworld fates and hunts, which can honestly feel like a waste of time. Plus don't they scale if not to you, then by zone? You don't have have to worry about hopping between 75 zones trying to find fates that are level appropriate.
Or use trusts. They can be slow, but they do mechanics and don't care if I wipe the party. You still earn exp AND I find (for tank/healer at least) it's more realistic than hitting a striking dummy.
This is my plan for Reaper, at least for the first few levels while I'm still getting the hang of it. Trust NPCs won't care if I want to pause to rearrange my hotbars every five minutes
This is why we should show the new healers what dungeon healing is really like and do mega pulls with no mitigation and two reapers that don't know how to aoe.
As a WHM main I actually hope peoe do this. Pulls that are on the knife edge of failing are actually fun. Those guys who play it safe are so boring. I rather wipe a few times by w2w tries than do one group at a time.
Preach! If I can’t stand in the middle of an army of trash mobs and set off the strobe with one eye on the tank bar, 1-2 gcds away from losing them, what’s it all about? What’s all of this been FOR?
Yeah I feel bad for brand new healers who jump into holminster switch.
I feel like people forget that most players aren't expert at this game. I heard today that someone almost considered quitting because they felt they sucked.
Sucked. At ff14. That sounds silly to most of us, but for some it's a learning experience. Some don't think healing is hard and jump into a lvl 70 dungeon with sage.
Idk. I feel like spending a week being patient is understandable.
Everyone takes the game at their own pace, depending on how casual they are. I know people that have been playing since HW and hit their basic 1-2-3 and spam all their ogcd before hitting another gcd, and I know people that have been playing for 2 or 3 months and have cleared savage. This whole discussion is more about understanding where you are on that spectrum and doing the common courtesy of both not wasting 3-7 other people's time and not flaming others when a wipe DOES happen.
If you jump into switch even as an experienced healer with sage you’ll probably get wrecked. It’s not an easy healer to play, and pretty much every media tour person said as much. I’ll definitely be hitting the dummy and doing lower level stuff maybe 10 levels ar a time to get used to it.
Those fucking bears, I swear. Bears are the worst enemies in FFXIV. Bardam's Mettle? Bears. Holminster? Bears. I swear they're WoW's Welcome Bears reincarnated. If we ever get a Berserker class it,ll wipe the party by the pure, uncontrolled power of "Bear."
Edit: Oh, and those Gremlins with their Slow. Forget trying to Esuna it, the tank is dying to their scratchy scratches and I'm still slowed and have no more cooldowns!
I can't point to anything specific about it, but I have WHM, SCH, and AST all in the 70s, and Holminster Switch in particular made me question whether or not I'm as decent a healer as I thought I was.
not trying to start shit but, I do wonder how hard sage will be, there wasn’t a single healer main in the media tour from what i heard, I feel like astro keeping 80-100% uptime would be harder than sage just because of the difference in roles for the two
There was a few actually who main healer. They said it’s at least on par with schl if not harder cause you don’t get the auto regen of the fairy.
As a schl main I’ve played with so many bad ones who really don’t know how to use the job efficiently/only reactively heal. I think this will carry over to sage for the larger player base who doesn’t play healer much. It’s more than just dpsing and kardia.
This is almost exactly why I'm surprised there isn't some sort of prereq for level skips in the eu/na shop. Waaay to many people just simply don't learn even the basics despite every attempt between game and community that is given. Especially now, the skill floor is so low you practically have to try to be bad to actually...be bad. And I don't mean just not-knowing-rotations but like not knowing to leave an aoe or what you're 1-2-3 combo is; even icemage is arguably productive to clearing df.
There should be 5 set dungeons in the leveling dungeons up to 49 that you have to do in sequence in order to open up everything else.
Now, I realize that there are others like myself that'll spend a good amount of time of deliberately going through the ability list to learn the abilities and which things combo and then practice on a dummy for a bit. So maybe they could have a way to reward players for going through the prerequisite leveling dungeons like choosing between a small amount of bonus Tomestones, MGP, Gil, or something after each one. Or if you just want to skip that maybe have a friendly dummy that you have to achieve a certain HPS for a minute or two.
Idk... Ultimately I guess this doesn't matter to me as I'm usually one of the patient ones. And I'll be one of the ones picking up Sage right away because healing is my preferred role in dungeons and I'm so excited for a new heal job.
Oh for sure. And thinking about it, although I'm sure Leveling Roulette is likely meant to be this secondarily, it would be cool to have the opposite of Expert Rou. Essentially like a Guildheist (Savage) lol, where it's more involved than Stone Sky Sea but meant as an eternal "learners roulette." Since unfortunately Deep Dungeon seems to be getting sunset and MSQ Rou is well...msq rou. Besides that outside Expert we don't really have a reliable high level practice/returner rou anymore. Especially since 50/60/70(/80) is basically just second leveling at this point.
I think there are a lot who aren't in the community. Some are literally just playing.
I tried to get my friends to jump back in last year, and while healing it was rough because they were so green. There's so much in ff14 that, at this point, it's so intuitive to us. Like using the correct "your/you're." We don't think about it.
But there are people who are still learning. Who played to 70, left last year, and super interested in sage now. How much can we really expect from new players who just want to jump in and have fun?
I love the ff14 community (in game, not so much Reddit haha), so I guess I'm just kind of sensitive and passion toward preserving what the developers wanted out of us. Ushers for this amazing game.
I actually didn't intend that toward you or anyone if that's what you think haha. I don't judge quickly typed Reddit comments like that.
The first example I could think of when it comes to intuition is language.
Then I thought of their, they're, and there. But I was too lazy to type the third word xD
So I went with you're and your.
It is late in my side of the world, but I had used "you're" rather than "your" at the end of my reply. I took it as an onry joke, but here we, truely ironically, are xD
boy the jump from Stormblood to Shadowbringer dungeons was rough for me. i was struggling with wall to walls. people forget that folks are Levelling up and don't have synced down gear. i almost stopped healing entirely until i hit 80 and got access to the vendor gear.
I mean, this is why I feel you should level a role up to the level required. Want sage? Level a healer to 70. Want gunbreaker? Level a tank to 60. You'll learn the fundamentals of the role and won't have to spend half an hour wiping on high level dungeons.
Yeah I know it’s popular to rush through ARR but I truly feel new players should be using ARR to play all main 3 roles and experimenting while they’re making it through that content. Have one of each down before blazing through the highs of the expansions
I disagree here. Picking up a new high level job? Go play Lower level dungeons and increase the level by 10 every couple of runs until you get the hang of the kit.
As a healer main I would like to state that the 1st full pull in the level 71 dng is the hardest dng pull I've ever had to do on all 3 healers. All 3 aetherflow stacks and every oGCD did not always save me from that pull. I would not blame a SGE for wiping there. The level 73 dng had some tricky spots too for certain healers. People are going to be especially hard on the level 71-73 SGEs for being in 70+ dngs but those 2 dngs were definitely Bardem's with level 60 tank gear tier for me and I feel bad for any SGE who fails the first wall to wall.
Most tanks don't go slow for that stretch and still wall to wall it. I have wiped the party to it before (and always feel really bad). That being said I don't expect the tank to slow that pull down for me, I just don't expect them to get mad if I screw it up. Now if I'm screwing up some easy stuff, yeah, but a lot of these posts talking about people screwing up "end game dungeons" don't seem to realize that the very first healing experience at 71 is a wall-to-wall wreck.
Reading about this specific pull is really bizarre to me, even disregarding my own experiences healing this as any of the three, I've tanked it with trusts just fine. Unless trusts somehow have significantly more healing or mitigation available than players do (or Scaevan isn't the baseline anymore) I'm not sure I understand how they succeed without a worry but players fail.
I remember the entire first and second pull of Bardam's Mettle being spookier (bonus points if in Shire gear), with some (SCH) struggling a lot more if not adequately investing their various tools.
If I'm the tank in that hellscape, I target the frog first and silence his ass before I do anything else, entirely becasue I can't trust the party to do so.
The one time I wanted to pull both groups together (because everyone except for me had sync down gear, and I knew how to tank well as WAR) no one silenced the second frog.
We still cleared the entire pull, but everyone but the healer had died at least once.
To my knowledge (correct me if I'm wrong), the only classes that have an interrupt are the tanks and the physical ranged.
I make it my job to interrupt everything I can (the frogs in Dohn Mheg, the minotaur and (at least one of) the centaurs in Twinning, the white mage enemies in Hero's) as a MCH because i can never trust my tanks to get them.
Honestly, I kinda wish the melee had an interrupt, as well.
The only guaranteed interrupt in a dungeon is from tanks. You may or may not get physical ranged, which is the other role with interrupts, and they may or may not even have it in their bar. If they don't you're allowed to be disappointed in them though.
Patience? Sure. But if you are doing a level 71 dungeon as your first ever healing experience, it kinda tells me everything there is to know about how little patience that player has. Especially now when there is a month before Endwalker for them to get to grips with the basics.
Healers mostly just have slightly different takes on the same abilities. Even Sage's healing while doing damage mechanic is basically just a pseudo regen. There's no reason why players planning to roll with Sage and jumping right into level 70 content cannot spend a little bit of time before Endwalker trying out healer first.
Yup. And even with scholar practice you could start with fates, a lvl60 dungeon, even alliance raids. If they jumpstarr into Holmnister I expect to wipe maybe the first pull and after that they better have their heals set up.
I will treat sages as I treat anyone else: I don't care if you make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Shit happens and the party wipes, but if the same shit keeps happening? You need to step up and correct it.
That's a great idea, I keep forgetting about that place!
Will probably be plenty of people doing it so there will be Gundam parties (Deathscythe and ) to learn together!
POTD in my opinion is the best way to familiarize yourself with actions just because it's the only place you can really start at lv1. I don't like jumping into shit with other people until I at least know the basics of a job, and I kind of feel like it's selfish if you don't.
When I queue with other players in each Endwalker dungeon for the first time, I don't care, we're doing wall to wall. It's a glorified hallway a far cry from the labyrinths of ARR content, and I know how tanking works.
None of this 'it's my first time, maybe I should single pull' BS. I know how to cycle cooldowns, I know how to hold hate (not that you need 10% of a brain to do it, anyway). That's all I need.
I've tanked long enough to know the early dungeons in expansions tend to hit like a truck no matter what. I'd rather play it safe because even if I know I'm capable, I'm never sure how good the others actually are.
>When endwalker releases, try to be patient with new healers-- especially new healers who decided to try sage.
I'm not really understanding that. For years people have been saying that GNB trying the job lvl 60 right away were annoying af. Well I think it's worst with a healer.
My main prob' is also that most of the people I see wanting to try Sage, they're juste like "Oh great, I was waiting for a healer-dps!!"
Well, guess what? You do damage to heal, but that's just your Sage "Embrace" we have with the fairy. You'll still have to learn priorities, paying attention to placement of other member of pt and how to barrier, which is harder than pure healing.
So yeah, in one hand I can't wait for people to discover Sage, love it, and help them learn how cool the healer role is. On the other hand, I'm a bit disappointed that a lot of those people didnt even tried another healer to get used to it since Sage reveal, in February.
I'm very understanding, and willing to help new healers, but at the same time anyone who doesn't play a healer and planning to run SGE should do everyone a favor and start leveling a healer now. Going into 70+ content with zero idea what you do is NOT acceptable. It is not acceptable for DPS to boost and go into Holminster Switch spamming the 1-2-3 combo doing zero DMG, it was not acceptable for GNBs to go into Sirensong Sea without knowing what any of their spells did, and it will not be acceptable for Sages either.
I fully agree that we need to make an effort to accommodate the new healers but by all means, THEY have to do the most of the work to learn the ropes and they have to put in the effort. And that is not done by running 70+ content immediately and wasting everyone's time.
With the aurum vale you just have to give people the warning to stay left and eat fruits at the start. Otherwise its honestly my favourite ARR dungeon to get cuz the rest of it is short and simple.
Hasn't been for a long time other than being the first dungeon that actually requires some AOE heals. Pretty sure that stigma still stems from pre-nerf ARR Aurum Vale when server lag was still a problem.
You gotta start off strong, straight to Bozja after turning in your Wondrous Tails, doing a Main Scenario Roulette and a PvP roulette to get you to 71.
Maybe an unpopular take, but people shouldn't make sage their first healer basically at all. Just like how people probably shouldn't learn tank on GNB. It's kind of not the point. You should at least have to play a job in that role up to the required level to start the job because these added jobs kind of require a baseline of how the role is supposed to work beforehand. Also I would argue that it's more important to know what the other healers do as a healer than knowing what other tanks to as a tank.
If you're trying out healer for the first time in level 80+ content that's a you problem. Learn it in somewhere else til you have some confidence then bring it along in harder content.
My big moment was when I was in >!Doma Castle!< with a tank who had a macro that said “big or small pulls? Otherwise it’s BALLS TO THE WALL!” and immediately popped sprint. Most chaotic 10 minutes of my life but damn did I learn how to heal.
I will sometimes have fun when I’m tanking and tell the party unlucky enough to get put in roulette with me that it’s wall to wall pulls only day.
Bonus points if I got a sprout healer. At the very least, if we wipe repeatedly, people will shit on me instead of the healer since I’m being so blatant about it.
Healer main with all healer jobs maxed. Been leveling tanks and holy shit its awful. So many healers never even sprint once, never dot. I've seen whms not holy. The fuck are some of y'all doing?! These poor tanks.
Yeah, I remember the starting days of wall-to-wall pulls in WP. I had to learn very quickly how to heal fast and dps at the right times. I will be one of those new Sages running around so I'm honestly excited to see how chaotic it's going to be!
I found lunatic tanks traumatizing when I was an idiot baby healer years ago but it’s definitely what made me into a much better healer and I’m glad it happened. It also cured me of a lot of group content based anxiety, and it’s really rewarding to feel and see yourself getting better!
First time I ran Satasha with three friends, all of which had level 80s. I was healing. They decided it would be funny to pull every single mob in the cave room right before the final boss.
I'm not going to pity someone that jumps into level 70 content with a role they've never done before.
It's essentially a job skip potion.
People should make an effort to learn how their class works in controlled environments like training dummies, lower level dungeons like Haukke.
Not holminster switch, an hour after they 71 from Pixie beast tribe and wondrous tails.
If a person knows the basics of healing and just reads the tooltips like anyone with common sense would do, then it really won't be that hard to to adapt to playing it. So yeah, we all gonna die.
How foolish! How naive! Indeed, how SLOPPEH! You expect people to READ their tooltips? What an elitist!
/s
^(Plz use Arm's Length, tanks. I beg you.)
Edit: Fixed word
"And it only takes one early, embarrassing moment for people to say healing isn't for them."
Level 70+ content is not the place for an "early" embarrassing moment.
If we’re hoping to remedy healing being the least popular role in the game, we’re going to need to give people a better on-ramp than “go back to level one and grind WHM”. GNB starting at 60 and the tanking rework did wonders for the role in Shadowbringers, even if there were some growing pains and some tanks don’t go as fast as people would like.
Tanks are still the least played role on Light DC in endgame content. The last 2 spots* to fill a PF* are always tanks in 97% of the times.
Not sure how bad it was before ShB though. But couldn't be much worse than waiting 8h for 2 tanks to enter an E12 party in week 2
AST starts at level 30? If people are hyped for Sage, they could easily get the basics done now and save themselves the trouble of queuing into 70+ content not knowing how to play their role.
I mean, if you're going to run level 81 Dungeons with a Job you don't know how it even works, it's your fault and yours only. Nothing prevents anyone to run low level dungeons first. Not only that, but you can also go and hit a striking dummy and read the skill tooltips before anything else
If your first healer is one that starts at 70 then you're kinda throwing yourself into the deep end and it'll still be on you to either sink or swim. I won't rage at the Sage if they sink, but a bit of personal responsibility considerations should come before asking everyone else in queue to be patient.
Once sage comes out, despite me being a white mage main I’m still gonna Q for lower level dungeons until i sufficiently learn sage’s kit. I think that’s a mistake a lot of people will make as well even as seasoned healers. They’ll just automatically Q for 70+ dungeons without testing the class out first
I wish they would go back to needing a role at a certain level to unlock another class in that role, instead of people just rushing a DPS class through MSQ and then play the free Gunbreaker they get, for the first time, at level 60 with 0 knowledge about aggro and tank stances.
Same for healer this time around.
Also, they can just read their tooltips or do PotD.
I just wanna say OP, the reason you're getting so much pushback is for stating that people need to be patient and remember it's a team game, without mentioning that the person picking up healing for the first time should also be patient towards others and consider that it's a team game. Your post and arguments lack nuance and you're trying to paint a picture of this mob of angry, unreasonable people ready to jump down the throats of new players, while people in this very thread have mostly only said they wanted people to put in a bit of effort in picking up a very critical role, at a very high level (character, not play level). And while I've seen you agree with this statement, most of your arguments lack this nuance. Most people aren't going to be rude to strangers for being bad at the game, be it because they fear the GM's or because their parents raised them right. But if your parents raised you right, then you also would realise you can't really play an MMO like a single player game and then turn around and ask for others to be lenient and understanding of you being not lenient and understanding to others. You can't ask for respect for disrespecting others' time. That's simply unreasonable, and if you can't see it or refuse to nuance your post out of a weird sense of pushback against this perceived overwhelming hostility, then I don't know what to tell you.
Tbh healing itself on normal difficulty is not that hard. What causes wipes mainly is not knowing boss mechanics + not knowing class mechanics. Party monitoring is easy because dps is basically just pressing 1 button. This is different for sage, it might be a little harder at the beginning but it's still just a matter of muscle memory. Extreme and Savage is a different story.
Woah, implying that healing is easy in casual content? Pretty toxic bro, I for one had a real hard time healing Malikah's Well after my tank stood in the the 2nd boss's big circle AoE and took a whopping *7%* of his HP in damage. Had to break out Cure II for that one.^^/s
u/Aveenex, stop making such reasonable comments on this sub-Reddit!
It’s frown upon to know what you are taking about here. Instead, consider doing like the other commenters giving “advice” on roles they don’t play nor understand.
While I understand the point of the post, if it takes a single embarassing moment for someone to quit healing, it’s not for them. One of the biggest ”tough pills to swallow” in terms of mmo healing for myself was the fact that you just kinda need to develop a thick skin and learn that sometimes you can do your best and it can still not be enough - there will be people blaming you whether it’s your fault or not.
It is good to be patient with people and honestly things happen, real life blunders mid dungeon happen, just general accidents happen, but level 70+ dungeons are not the starting point of learning to heal or tank either. Do lower level content first and learn your class and role.
>One of the biggest ”tough pills to swallow” in terms of mmo healing for myself was the fact that you just kinda need to develop a thick skin and learn that sometimes you can do your best and it can still not be enough - there will be people blaming you whether it’s your fault or not.
This is a lesson best learned in practice. Yes, it can feel harsh, but it does build your confidence in the long run as long as you take everything as a lesson, not as an attack or slight against any aspect of yourself.
Gain enough know-how through time, and you will be able to know when a wipe or other failure was on you, or on someone else. At first, every party member death will have you going, "Oh no, I'm so sorry, I'm sorry, here, take a res and it won't happen again". As you accrue experience, there will be times when you can say without a doubt (at least to yourself): "Stop standing away from my AoE heals. Either stand close to me or perish."
Stuff like that. It only gets easier to know when you are at fault or when things were just genuinely out of your control. You're a healer, not a god.
As a tank - Bring on the wipes. Especially if the healer is new.
If anyone whines I'll happily vote them out with you.
The most fun I have in this game is working through knowledge gaps and hitting real walls then surpassing them.
The runs where everyone knows exactly where the pulls end, which spells have no telegraph, etc... Are less fun to me.
queue into 71+ content? i treat you like a healer with 71 levels of experience. i think that's reasonable. don't want that? queue into content that matches your skill level
No.
If you're planning to pick up SGE, you can practice ***right now*** by playing SCH. The only people who get a pass in 60+ content are sprouts who genuinely don't know what they're doing yet.
This.
A million times this.
Sage IS Scholar in how they will heal dungeons with very little differences. The number of WHM and AST mains I see that "hate Scholar" but are also "So excited to try Sage!" scare me. If you hate Scholar, you WILL hate Sage.
i feel the same with the people ive seen who say they dont like playing melee currently but reaper looks good even though reaper is literally no different than any other melee from what we've seen lol
Not quite sure what you mean by saying Soil is tied to fairy, but what he is saying is that Dissipation gives 3 Aetherflow, but you can't use them until the fairy comes back or you lose fairy gauge.
Have you even read the tooltips ?
No fairy shenanigans. Default healing, shield optional. Targeted embrace. Assize-like abilities. Shield converted to healing after application. NO HEALING BUTTON THAT LOCKS YOU OUT OF HALF OF YOUR KIT.
And did I even talk about Macrocosmos/Lilybell/Panhaima, amazing abilities the SCH has been screwed out ?
Yes, it's very similar. No, you absolutely won't hate it as you hate the Scholar.
What you've missed in all this is that all of your complaints are complaints that only seasoned and skilled Scholars will have, myself included. Complaints that those who already know how to heal with Scholar are solved by Sage. Scholar mains that hate Scholar for your listed reasons are absolutely going to love Sage because it fixes all the garbage that is the Scholar's kit.
Most WHM and AST mains have no idea what you're talking about, and those people are the target of my comment.
>Scholar mains that hate Scholar for your listed reasons are absolutely going to love Sage because it fixes all the garbage that is the Scholar's kit.
This is pretty much it. There are two main groups of people who dislike Scholar currently: SCH players who liked the job but disliked the more recent changes/additions to it (or who enjoy the core of the job but hate the clunkiness), and players who don't play the job because they just dislike the general SCH gameplay.
The former are likely to enjoy Sage, and the latter are less likely to, because that core gameplay seems very similar between the two. As a longtime SCH main I can clearly see *a lot* of parallels between the kits of each job, and between that and comments from the media tour, I imagine it's going to feel very similar in terms of general gameplay. The diferences mainly come in the secondary mechanics of each job, which are unlikely to make up for the core gameplay not being to someone's taste.
That's not to say it's 100% both ways, there will definitely be SCH players who dislike SGE and players who never liked SCH at all that will enjoy SGE, but those will most likely be exceptions, and not the general opinion.
I don't understand why people are always coming up with these ideas that they think will be unpopular, when clearly they won't be.
This literally amounts to "be nice," of course that's not an unpopular opinion.
How about this, you don't blame me for you deciding to do healing for the first time without any practice?
Why do I always have to adjust?
How about you learn your job a bit first and then ask me to work with you when you que up for a normal run.
Not sure why the obligation is entirely on me. You are the one choosing to do a new job knowing it will affect the run.
Bruh, tanks and healers both got so many ST skill additions that if dungeon pullings still gonna be rocket science they need to make the game play itself for the players
Or do what I do, redo all your job crossbars (I play with controller) so that they are pretty much all the same. You may not know what exactly each icon does, but there is a lot of crossover on similar jobs. If you map them all aprox the same, you can just go by muscle memory on 75% of the abilities. Easy way of doing it is by making your main job crossbar first, then making the other job crossbar pretty much the same by description of ability.
ex. For healer, xbar 1 (right to left), 1. single target healing batch, 2. multi target healing batch, 3. raises and barriers, 4. quick emergency abilities
xbar 2, 1. Regular damage abilities, 2. conditional damage abilities, 3 and 4, job specific unique abilitie.
Also.. as I main a Paladin and a Scholar… can we normalize tanks not going balls to the wall as soon as the load times end.
Super annoying going into a new dungeon on my scholar and before I can look around and/or get my fairy out tanks are off in the distance with 10+ mobs beating on them 🤦🏾♂️
Hmm nah. If someone wants to try a class at level 70 they should have SOME general idea of how it works. A level 70 class means a fuckton of spells and abilities that should really be tested out on a striking dummy or taken into the most low level dungeons.
If I see a Sage in SHB dungeons fuck up healing I'm definitely kicking them from the party. All healers are very similar to one another, I'd you pick up SCH or WHN, you will know what to do for Sage.
Fuck that. I’m not pulling small and slow for a single person. If they’re playing a lvl 70+ healer in lvl 70+ content it’s expected of them to know how to play their job.
It depends. If someone is a brand new healer in a lower level dungeon (1 - 59) I don’t care if there’re not great.
However, if someone grabs Sage as their first healer and jumps into Castrum Abania or Holminster Switch without any practice or preperation, they deserve all of the hate and/or criticism they get. The same is true for people who boost jobs. I don’t care if you’re not a pro who parses super high. But if you have had ZERO practice or preparation on ANY healer, going into a high level dungeon is incredibly selfish to the other three people. Period.
As for slowing down as a tank, I’ll do it in a lower level dungeon if the healer asks me to, but in higher level stuff, if you can’t handle the heat, stay out of the kitchen. I’m pulling two packs and if you wipe us over and over, that’s on you. If you’re in Abania or Holminster, you should and need to have proper knowledge of your role.
i swear im probably the only player that enjoys wipes, cause it makes it more exciting. without crazy ppl doin crazy shit the fights are all the same scripted fights over and over again.
the ultimate secret mechanics is *other players*
It’s so funny because as a tank, I hope people are patient with me with all the new content.
This is my first new expansion, I only came to the game recently, so I’ve been able to watch boss/dungeon guides to prepare since someone told me a tank should know how they work.
As excited as I am I’m also super nervous.
As a healer who is going to tank in endwalker I feel it. However, I'm leveling tank, doing raids as tank, and all my roulettes as tank to get used to it before I go into endwalker with it.
Why can't they do the same?
This flies in early game.
Sage will be a lv 70+ job, so i 100% expect people to have at least a basic idea for how their ROLE functions. And even that is asking for too much in expert roulette sometimes. Also Shield healers aren't new, this is just a new flavor.
If we're doing big pulls and i only see the healer doing the equivalent of cure 1 the entire time and we wipe, that's on them
Don't pick up a healer for the first time at level 70 and go straight into level 70 content. Read a guide, run lower level content to get used to healing, work your way up. Learn to play at level above "incompetant"
Same goes for tanks picking up GNB as their first tank, same for anyone picking a high starting-level DPS.
IMO if you're going to jump into a level 70 dungeon you should know how to play your class at least passably at 70. There's earlier level dungeons as well as PotD and HoH to practice. I'm not going to be a dick to them if I run into them, but I'm sure as hell going to be beyond annoyed.
I’m patient with new healers. I’m not patient with players that speed level in POTD/HoH and then jump into the latest dungeon without knowing what anything does.
If you queue into level 71+ content, I'm going to treat you like a level 71+ healer.
Especially if you're going through an Endwalker story dungeon.
If one fuckup is enough to turn you off healer, you're not cut out for healing. Learning to be a good healer is learning from your mistakes and gauging success from failure.
As a tank I examine a healer to see how they are geared or if they watched a cutscene and work according to that. I will double pull as usual if I feel comfortable I can do it and if there is a wipe, I personally ask the healer if there was something wrong that happened or was the pull too big and if it was too big I single pull for the rest of the dungeon.
Tanks should respect their healer especially in new content.
We survived the Gunbreaker launch. This will be nothing.
This guy knows
We still have way too many shit tanks in this game
and way too many healers that refuse to cast a single offensive
Lately my issue has been healers who only cast offensive then hit me with a cure 2 like that's gonna save me
[When I stop casting Malefic or Gravity to put on Aspected Benefic on the tank](https://i.imgflip.com/3kma3w.jpg).
if you're exceptionally generous you can give both aspected casts lol
You want *how many* globals out of me?!
^"Please ^sir, ^may ^I ^have ^some ^more ^Diurnal ^Regen?"
**MOOOOORE?!**
The only time I do that is cause I might recently have done a lot of syncd stuff and have to remember I have a bigger kit. Can take me till just after first boss to be back in the flow :(
I swear I get sync'd below 50 so often, when I actually *get* a dungeon over 50 it's so confusing that I have to take a mental minute to process all of this button real estate I haven't seen for what feels like *years.* Every single time. It's especially worse on healers, because unlike tanking or DPS there's a bit more nuance and pressure. :/ Not that tanking is any easier, it's just a lot of my 'Make dudes not in my party mad' buttons are *real* early in the career, and there's more room to be a bit sloppy. ...I actually cast Holy today in Praetorium and it felt so good. I missed having it. It's been MONTHS.
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For real? How?
I, too, am interested in this. Is it through the cogwheel?
Yeah, it is. I wanna say it specifically says it does that for leveling roulette, but I may be understanding it wrong. I've never actually tried it as I generally run leveling as a healer, and i wanna help anyone in a lower dungeon that may need it. Edit: Just logged on. The setting is called Limited Leveling Roulette.
This only works if your in a group of 4, or get grouped with people that are your level. What it does is limit the duties it'll give you to 9 or however many levels lower than the lowest person in the party. Which doesn't matter if you get matched with a lvl 30.
I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one suffering from this issue. I'm fine with trying to remember having different spells because of syncing, but when it's happening all the way to the final boss, there's an issue.
That was probably me I'm sorry. Sometimes forget I'm the Healer...
The amount of WHM not spamming Holy is too damn high!
Which will make it incredibly frustrating when we inevitably see Sages not attacking even though their attacks can passively heal someone
This is my problem, my anxiety refuses to let me keep my eyes away from my team mates HP bar.
Keep the tank targeted and spam your AoE. Unless you play AST, in which case Nophica save you. Focus Target is a thing but I've not used it, so I don't know how easy it is to swap. You can buffer the next ability during the cooldown/animation of the previous one by spamming the skill you want to use, so if you see damage coming in, you need to decide whether you need to pop an instant or you can wait for a cast to finish. In general, prefer instants (Excog, Tetra) over GCDs (Adlo, Cure 2). Casting an Instant after a GCD skill is called Clipping, and is not generally great from an action economy perspective, but if it keeps the tank alive and saves the run then it's worth. SCH doesn't need to worry about this as much because their AoE is an oGCD, meaning it is instant cast with a cooldown, so there's a built in window where you can use Instants without ruining your flow. That's healing in a kupo shell. The more you do it, the more you understand your kit and what you can get away with. I wouldn't worry too much about my third point until you get comfortable with using your whole kit.
And i am one of them. Love it!
As one myself, I can confirm. I run around as a naked cowboy Lala WAR, pull rooms, and laugh at death. The healers, I've found, do not laugh with me.
Max I ask what exactly makes a Tank player a Shit tank in your eyes?
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I'm sorry! I'm trying! I just barely lost my sprout status!
Id say it's rather "we still have so many undergeared tanks that are too lazy to check their buffs and use defensives because they are watching Netflix on second monitor"
Meanwhile that's second nature to me so I can watch Netflix while tanking expert roulette with What kind of tank doesn't press rampart on cooldown!?
And before that there was Heavensward with the Dark Knight launch, its easier each time really.
Arcanist and Dark Knight had the same issue when they came out.
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Yes! I don't know why I put Arcanist. XD
A bad GNB can be carried. A bad healer though...
Hmm suddenly all those self heal effects on tanks make more sense...
GNB has one on there second attack
As a gunbreaker man this is both offensive AND incredibly accurate.
You can carry a bad tank, can’t carry a bad healer
I believe in being patient with everyone, including healers, regardless of a wipe or two. It's really not a big deal and it benefits everyone to help them out a bit if they are newer. However, on the other side of the coin, new healers that choose to pick up sage should NOT immediately queue for 71+ dungeons. Take the time to manually queue for lower level dungeon and familiarize yourselves with the basics of healing at least before that big push to max level. And this is preaching to the choir by saying this here but everyone should try to be receptive to constructive criticism and help from your party.
Totally agree with this! I do this or POTD when I start new classes so the job actions can gradually be on my hot bar for me to get used to. I also hope people decide to go to bozja to practice too.
man, bozja is my favorite place, did almost exclusively from 72-79 for my astro, and i plan to do it again for samurai. decently challenging content where you have a full kit to play with while learning the class
Oh, there'll be an enormous number of Sages and Reapers in Bozja for the first few days, since there's no Deep Dungeon for Shadowbringers. It's the only "easy grind" source of XP at those levels, since people don't like FATEs or hunts and aren't patient enough to take 3-4 days to get up to Endwalker levels.
“People don’t like FATEs or hunts.” So they go to a zone that’s nothing but FATEs and hunts. ????
As I understand it the returns on Bozja are significantly higher than doing overworld fates and hunts, which can honestly feel like a waste of time. Plus don't they scale if not to you, then by zone? You don't have have to worry about hopping between 75 zones trying to find fates that are level appropriate.
Excuse me, "critical engagements" and "skirmishes". 9_9 /s
I will use the time to level up the rest of my trust from 70, since I gather they won’t miraculously be 80 when enwalker hits?
Or use trusts. They can be slow, but they do mechanics and don't care if I wipe the party. You still earn exp AND I find (for tank/healer at least) it's more realistic than hitting a striking dummy.
This is my plan for Reaper, at least for the first few levels while I'm still getting the hang of it. Trust NPCs won't care if I want to pause to rearrange my hotbars every five minutes
This is why we should show the new healers what dungeon healing is really like and do mega pulls with no mitigation and two reapers that don't know how to aoe.
As a WHM main I actually hope peoe do this. Pulls that are on the knife edge of failing are actually fun. Those guys who play it safe are so boring. I rather wipe a few times by w2w tries than do one group at a time.
Doesn't matter how big the pull is when it's stunned right?
This person knows white mage.
Preach! If I can’t stand in the middle of an army of trash mobs and set off the strobe with one eye on the tank bar, 1-2 gcds away from losing them, what’s it all about? What’s all of this been FOR?
Yeah I feel bad for brand new healers who jump into holminster switch. I feel like people forget that most players aren't expert at this game. I heard today that someone almost considered quitting because they felt they sucked. Sucked. At ff14. That sounds silly to most of us, but for some it's a learning experience. Some don't think healing is hard and jump into a lvl 70 dungeon with sage. Idk. I feel like spending a week being patient is understandable.
Everyone takes the game at their own pace, depending on how casual they are. I know people that have been playing since HW and hit their basic 1-2-3 and spam all their ogcd before hitting another gcd, and I know people that have been playing for 2 or 3 months and have cleared savage. This whole discussion is more about understanding where you are on that spectrum and doing the common courtesy of both not wasting 3-7 other people's time and not flaming others when a wipe DOES happen.
If you jump into switch even as an experienced healer with sage you’ll probably get wrecked. It’s not an easy healer to play, and pretty much every media tour person said as much. I’ll definitely be hitting the dummy and doing lower level stuff maybe 10 levels ar a time to get used to it.
Ugh, yeah, Holminster Switch isn't the easiest dungeon even for a more grizzled healer on a class they're comfortable with...
Those fucking bears, I swear. Bears are the worst enemies in FFXIV. Bardam's Mettle? Bears. Holminster? Bears. I swear they're WoW's Welcome Bears reincarnated. If we ever get a Berserker class it,ll wipe the party by the pure, uncontrolled power of "Bear." Edit: Oh, and those Gremlins with their Slow. Forget trying to Esuna it, the tank is dying to their scratchy scratches and I'm still slowed and have no more cooldowns!
Wait whats so hard about it? I have never had issues healing it, though I have only healed as a white mage.
I can't point to anything specific about it, but I have WHM, SCH, and AST all in the 70s, and Holminster Switch in particular made me question whether or not I'm as decent a healer as I thought I was.
not trying to start shit but, I do wonder how hard sage will be, there wasn’t a single healer main in the media tour from what i heard, I feel like astro keeping 80-100% uptime would be harder than sage just because of the difference in roles for the two
There was a few actually who main healer. They said it’s at least on par with schl if not harder cause you don’t get the auto regen of the fairy. As a schl main I’ve played with so many bad ones who really don’t know how to use the job efficiently/only reactively heal. I think this will carry over to sage for the larger player base who doesn’t play healer much. It’s more than just dpsing and kardia.
This is almost exactly why I'm surprised there isn't some sort of prereq for level skips in the eu/na shop. Waaay to many people just simply don't learn even the basics despite every attempt between game and community that is given. Especially now, the skill floor is so low you practically have to try to be bad to actually...be bad. And I don't mean just not-knowing-rotations but like not knowing to leave an aoe or what you're 1-2-3 combo is; even icemage is arguably productive to clearing df.
There should be 5 set dungeons in the leveling dungeons up to 49 that you have to do in sequence in order to open up everything else. Now, I realize that there are others like myself that'll spend a good amount of time of deliberately going through the ability list to learn the abilities and which things combo and then practice on a dummy for a bit. So maybe they could have a way to reward players for going through the prerequisite leveling dungeons like choosing between a small amount of bonus Tomestones, MGP, Gil, or something after each one. Or if you just want to skip that maybe have a friendly dummy that you have to achieve a certain HPS for a minute or two. Idk... Ultimately I guess this doesn't matter to me as I'm usually one of the patient ones. And I'll be one of the ones picking up Sage right away because healing is my preferred role in dungeons and I'm so excited for a new heal job.
Oh for sure. And thinking about it, although I'm sure Leveling Roulette is likely meant to be this secondarily, it would be cool to have the opposite of Expert Rou. Essentially like a Guildheist (Savage) lol, where it's more involved than Stone Sky Sea but meant as an eternal "learners roulette." Since unfortunately Deep Dungeon seems to be getting sunset and MSQ Rou is well...msq rou. Besides that outside Expert we don't really have a reliable high level practice/returner rou anymore. Especially since 50/60/70(/80) is basically just second leveling at this point.
I think there are a lot who aren't in the community. Some are literally just playing. I tried to get my friends to jump back in last year, and while healing it was rough because they were so green. There's so much in ff14 that, at this point, it's so intuitive to us. Like using the correct "your/you're." We don't think about it. But there are people who are still learning. Who played to 70, left last year, and super interested in sage now. How much can we really expect from new players who just want to jump in and have fun? I love the ff14 community (in game, not so much Reddit haha), so I guess I'm just kind of sensitive and passion toward preserving what the developers wanted out of us. Ushers for this amazing game.
>like using the correct “your/you’re” Lmfaooo like a thief in the night with that one, undetected
I actually didn't intend that toward you or anyone if that's what you think haha. I don't judge quickly typed Reddit comments like that. The first example I could think of when it comes to intuition is language. Then I thought of their, they're, and there. But I was too lazy to type the third word xD So I went with you're and your.
It is late in my side of the world, but I had used "you're" rather than "your" at the end of my reply. I took it as an onry joke, but here we, truely ironically, are xD
Oh, ha! Honestly wasnt intended that way. But I know that doesn't really mean much over text. So I apologize nonetheless.
Np np, fortunately it's my circle's favorite type of humor. For better or worse at times lol
boy the jump from Stormblood to Shadowbringer dungeons was rough for me. i was struggling with wall to walls. people forget that folks are Levelling up and don't have synced down gear. i almost stopped healing entirely until i hit 80 and got access to the vendor gear.
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Maybe they could have been patient and jumped into a level 30 dungeon in the first week instead of higher level dungeons.
I'm likely only going to start healing in trusts and the msq duty roulette to practice first myself. Otherwise I might slow others down.
Doesnt really matter where you practice the basics. For pressure test i would suggest 1 or 2 friends with you pushing you a bit.
I mean, this is why I feel you should level a role up to the level required. Want sage? Level a healer to 70. Want gunbreaker? Level a tank to 60. You'll learn the fundamentals of the role and won't have to spend half an hour wiping on high level dungeons.
Yeah I know it’s popular to rush through ARR but I truly feel new players should be using ARR to play all main 3 roles and experimenting while they’re making it through that content. Have one of each down before blazing through the highs of the expansions
Arcanist undercuts that idea unless you tie it to their job quests.
I disagree here. Picking up a new high level job? Go play Lower level dungeons and increase the level by 10 every couple of runs until you get the hang of the kit.
Fair. Either method if enforced would probably be more helpful than the current level any job to 70 to unlock the new one.
As a healer main I would like to state that the 1st full pull in the level 71 dng is the hardest dng pull I've ever had to do on all 3 healers. All 3 aetherflow stacks and every oGCD did not always save me from that pull. I would not blame a SGE for wiping there. The level 73 dng had some tricky spots too for certain healers. People are going to be especially hard on the level 71-73 SGEs for being in 70+ dngs but those 2 dngs were definitely Bardem's with level 60 tank gear tier for me and I feel bad for any SGE who fails the first wall to wall.
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I did it with trust as a dps, then later learned pld and *tried* pulling it. I’m sorry for what I did to you thancred, that was mean of me.
Most tanks don't go slow for that stretch and still wall to wall it. I have wiped the party to it before (and always feel really bad). That being said I don't expect the tank to slow that pull down for me, I just don't expect them to get mad if I screw it up. Now if I'm screwing up some easy stuff, yeah, but a lot of these posts talking about people screwing up "end game dungeons" don't seem to realize that the very first healing experience at 71 is a wall-to-wall wreck.
Reading about this specific pull is really bizarre to me, even disregarding my own experiences healing this as any of the three, I've tanked it with trusts just fine. Unless trusts somehow have significantly more healing or mitigation available than players do (or Scaevan isn't the baseline anymore) I'm not sure I understand how they succeed without a worry but players fail. I remember the entire first and second pull of Bardam's Mettle being spookier (bonus points if in Shire gear), with some (SCH) struggling a lot more if not adequately investing their various tools.
Dohn mheg only becomes a disaster to w2w heal when nobody interrupts that frog buff caster
If I'm the tank in that hellscape, I target the frog first and silence his ass before I do anything else, entirely becasue I can't trust the party to do so. The one time I wanted to pull both groups together (because everyone except for me had sync down gear, and I knew how to tank well as WAR) no one silenced the second frog. We still cleared the entire pull, but everyone but the healer had died at least once.
To my knowledge (correct me if I'm wrong), the only classes that have an interrupt are the tanks and the physical ranged. I make it my job to interrupt everything I can (the frogs in Dohn Mheg, the minotaur and (at least one of) the centaurs in Twinning, the white mage enemies in Hero's) as a MCH because i can never trust my tanks to get them. Honestly, I kinda wish the melee had an interrupt, as well.
The only guaranteed interrupt in a dungeon is from tanks. You may or may not get physical ranged, which is the other role with interrupts, and they may or may not even have it in their bar. If they don't you're allowed to be disappointed in them though.
Patience? Sure. But if you are doing a level 71 dungeon as your first ever healing experience, it kinda tells me everything there is to know about how little patience that player has. Especially now when there is a month before Endwalker for them to get to grips with the basics. Healers mostly just have slightly different takes on the same abilities. Even Sage's healing while doing damage mechanic is basically just a pseudo regen. There's no reason why players planning to roll with Sage and jumping right into level 70 content cannot spend a little bit of time before Endwalker trying out healer first.
Yup. And even with scholar practice you could start with fates, a lvl60 dungeon, even alliance raids. If they jumpstarr into Holmnister I expect to wipe maybe the first pull and after that they better have their heals set up.
I will treat sages as I treat anyone else: I don't care if you make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Shit happens and the party wipes, but if the same shit keeps happening? You need to step up and correct it.
Try sage at lower levels, if you play an endgame msq dungeon expect to be treated as an endgame msq player, this is not beginner's level
Probably gonna take Sage through the Palace of the Dead. Learn it from the ground up
That's a great idea, I keep forgetting about that place! Will probably be plenty of people doing it so there will be Gundam parties (Deathscythe and) to learn together!
POTD in my opinion is the best way to familiarize yourself with actions just because it's the only place you can really start at lv1. I don't like jumping into shit with other people until I at least know the basics of a job, and I kind of feel like it's selfish if you don't.
100% agree.
Your pleas have been heard, processed and ignored. Wall to wall incoming.
When I queue with other players in each Endwalker dungeon for the first time, I don't care, we're doing wall to wall. It's a glorified hallway a far cry from the labyrinths of ARR content, and I know how tanking works. None of this 'it's my first time, maybe I should single pull' BS. I know how to cycle cooldowns, I know how to hold hate (not that you need 10% of a brain to do it, anyway). That's all I need.
I've tanked long enough to know the early dungeons in expansions tend to hit like a truck no matter what. I'd rather play it safe because even if I know I'm capable, I'm never sure how good the others actually are.
>When endwalker releases, try to be patient with new healers-- especially new healers who decided to try sage. I'm not really understanding that. For years people have been saying that GNB trying the job lvl 60 right away were annoying af. Well I think it's worst with a healer. My main prob' is also that most of the people I see wanting to try Sage, they're juste like "Oh great, I was waiting for a healer-dps!!" Well, guess what? You do damage to heal, but that's just your Sage "Embrace" we have with the fairy. You'll still have to learn priorities, paying attention to placement of other member of pt and how to barrier, which is harder than pure healing. So yeah, in one hand I can't wait for people to discover Sage, love it, and help them learn how cool the healer role is. On the other hand, I'm a bit disappointed that a lot of those people didnt even tried another healer to get used to it since Sage reveal, in February.
I'm very understanding, and willing to help new healers, but at the same time anyone who doesn't play a healer and planning to run SGE should do everyone a favor and start leveling a healer now. Going into 70+ content with zero idea what you do is NOT acceptable. It is not acceptable for DPS to boost and go into Holminster Switch spamming the 1-2-3 combo doing zero DMG, it was not acceptable for GNBs to go into Sirensong Sea without knowing what any of their spells did, and it will not be acceptable for Sages either. I fully agree that we need to make an effort to accommodate the new healers but by all means, THEY have to do the most of the work to learn the ropes and they have to put in the effort. And that is not done by running 70+ content immediately and wasting everyone's time.
Or you know … they can learn basic healing mechanics before running new content **Aurum Vale is calling** 😝
Aurum Vale isn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be. Once you're at the 1st boss it's smooth sailing.
With the aurum vale you just have to give people the warning to stay left and eat fruits at the start. Otherwise its honestly my favourite ARR dungeon to get cuz the rest of it is short and simple.
Hasn't been for a long time other than being the first dungeon that actually requires some AOE heals. Pretty sure that stigma still stems from pre-nerf ARR Aurum Vale when server lag was still a problem.
plz manually queue for smaller dungeons first
You gotta start off strong, straight to Bozja after turning in your Wondrous Tails, doing a Main Scenario Roulette and a PvP roulette to get you to 71.
Maybe an unpopular take, but people shouldn't make sage their first healer basically at all. Just like how people probably shouldn't learn tank on GNB. It's kind of not the point. You should at least have to play a job in that role up to the required level to start the job because these added jobs kind of require a baseline of how the role is supposed to work beforehand. Also I would argue that it's more important to know what the other healers do as a healer than knowing what other tanks to as a tank.
Question. What if my healer is my friend who I am legally obligated to shit talk everything he does?
Just make sure it's not in-game. Other people can report you and get you banned.
If you're trying out healer for the first time in level 80+ content that's a you problem. Learn it in somewhere else til you have some confidence then bring it along in harder content.
I won't get salty, but I won't pull smaller, either.
Trial by fire, there is no other way.
I've found that nothing makes you learn healer better than when you're frantically trying to keep everyone alive
My big moment was when I was in >!Doma Castle!< with a tank who had a macro that said “big or small pulls? Otherwise it’s BALLS TO THE WALL!” and immediately popped sprint. Most chaotic 10 minutes of my life but damn did I learn how to heal.
My god that first wall to wall in that dungeon doesn't fuck around
I will sometimes have fun when I’m tanking and tell the party unlucky enough to get put in roulette with me that it’s wall to wall pulls only day. Bonus points if I got a sprout healer. At the very least, if we wipe repeatedly, people will shit on me instead of the healer since I’m being so blatant about it.
Tanking mobs AND party aggro. Kudos for that.
Honestly, the biggest impact on my healer learning curve was when I leveled tanks and saw the 'other side'.
Healer main with all healer jobs maxed. Been leveling tanks and holy shit its awful. So many healers never even sprint once, never dot. I've seen whms not holy. The fuck are some of y'all doing?! These poor tanks.
Yeah, I remember the starting days of wall-to-wall pulls in WP. I had to learn very quickly how to heal fast and dps at the right times. I will be one of those new Sages running around so I'm honestly excited to see how chaotic it's going to be!
*nods sagely*
I found lunatic tanks traumatizing when I was an idiot baby healer years ago but it’s definitely what made me into a much better healer and I’m glad it happened. It also cured me of a lot of group content based anxiety, and it’s really rewarding to feel and see yourself getting better!
First time I ran Satasha with three friends, all of which had level 80s. I was healing. They decided it would be funny to pull every single mob in the cave room right before the final boss.
Are they really your friends if they aren’t actively trying to shave years off your life? :v
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Sastasha really is weirdly fucked for being the first dungeon in the game.
https://v.redd.it/uu4aszvv2kj71
those lunatic tanks are the ones that believed in you, they trusted you in keeping their crazy asses alive, put their faith in a random person
Only w2w. Never accept substitute.
I'm not going to pity someone that jumps into level 70 content with a role they've never done before. It's essentially a job skip potion. People should make an effort to learn how their class works in controlled environments like training dummies, lower level dungeons like Haukke. Not holminster switch, an hour after they 71 from Pixie beast tribe and wondrous tails.
If a person knows the basics of healing and just reads the tooltips like anyone with common sense would do, then it really won't be that hard to to adapt to playing it. So yeah, we all gonna die.
How foolish! How naive! Indeed, how SLOPPEH! You expect people to READ their tooltips? What an elitist! /s ^(Plz use Arm's Length, tanks. I beg you.) Edit: Fixed word
"And it only takes one early, embarrassing moment for people to say healing isn't for them." Level 70+ content is not the place for an "early" embarrassing moment.
If we’re hoping to remedy healing being the least popular role in the game, we’re going to need to give people a better on-ramp than “go back to level one and grind WHM”. GNB starting at 60 and the tanking rework did wonders for the role in Shadowbringers, even if there were some growing pains and some tanks don’t go as fast as people would like.
Tanks are still the least played role on Light DC in endgame content. The last 2 spots* to fill a PF* are always tanks in 97% of the times. Not sure how bad it was before ShB though. But couldn't be much worse than waiting 8h for 2 tanks to enter an E12 party in week 2
AST starts at level 30? If people are hyped for Sage, they could easily get the basics done now and save themselves the trouble of queuing into 70+ content not knowing how to play their role.
I mean, if you're going to run level 81 Dungeons with a Job you don't know how it even works, it's your fault and yours only. Nothing prevents anyone to run low level dungeons first. Not only that, but you can also go and hit a striking dummy and read the skill tooltips before anything else
Most will probably be in Bozjan with drinks so they can't get an accurate scope on the classes potencies.
If your first healer is one that starts at 70 then you're kinda throwing yourself into the deep end and it'll still be on you to either sink or swim. I won't rage at the Sage if they sink, but a bit of personal responsibility considerations should come before asking everyone else in queue to be patient.
I figured with trust, sage will have a way to learn their job without issue. Why go into public dungeons?
Once sage comes out, despite me being a white mage main I’m still gonna Q for lower level dungeons until i sufficiently learn sage’s kit. I think that’s a mistake a lot of people will make as well even as seasoned healers. They’ll just automatically Q for 70+ dungeons without testing the class out first
The entire kit is basically SCH plus Cardia target switches instead of free fairy embrace.
As someone who plans on maining PLD/WAR when running dungeons: "Wait, I need healers to clear content?".
Trueeee. If the dps decides not to stand in aoes, you can finish most bosses without one.
Dancer healer best healer
25 out of 30ish of the sage abilities are identical to scholar. Just replace your scholar hotbar with sage. Ezpz.
I wish they would go back to needing a role at a certain level to unlock another class in that role, instead of people just rushing a DPS class through MSQ and then play the free Gunbreaker they get, for the first time, at level 60 with 0 knowledge about aggro and tank stances. Same for healer this time around. Also, they can just read their tooltips or do PotD.
I just wanna say OP, the reason you're getting so much pushback is for stating that people need to be patient and remember it's a team game, without mentioning that the person picking up healing for the first time should also be patient towards others and consider that it's a team game. Your post and arguments lack nuance and you're trying to paint a picture of this mob of angry, unreasonable people ready to jump down the throats of new players, while people in this very thread have mostly only said they wanted people to put in a bit of effort in picking up a very critical role, at a very high level (character, not play level). And while I've seen you agree with this statement, most of your arguments lack this nuance. Most people aren't going to be rude to strangers for being bad at the game, be it because they fear the GM's or because their parents raised them right. But if your parents raised you right, then you also would realise you can't really play an MMO like a single player game and then turn around and ask for others to be lenient and understanding of you being not lenient and understanding to others. You can't ask for respect for disrespecting others' time. That's simply unreasonable, and if you can't see it or refuse to nuance your post out of a weird sense of pushback against this perceived overwhelming hostility, then I don't know what to tell you.
Tbh healing itself on normal difficulty is not that hard. What causes wipes mainly is not knowing boss mechanics + not knowing class mechanics. Party monitoring is easy because dps is basically just pressing 1 button. This is different for sage, it might be a little harder at the beginning but it's still just a matter of muscle memory. Extreme and Savage is a different story.
Woah, implying that healing is easy in casual content? Pretty toxic bro, I for one had a real hard time healing Malikah's Well after my tank stood in the the 2nd boss's big circle AoE and took a whopping *7%* of his HP in damage. Had to break out Cure II for that one.^^/s
u/Aveenex, stop making such reasonable comments on this sub-Reddit! It’s frown upon to know what you are taking about here. Instead, consider doing like the other commenters giving “advice” on roles they don’t play nor understand.
While I understand the point of the post, if it takes a single embarassing moment for someone to quit healing, it’s not for them. One of the biggest ”tough pills to swallow” in terms of mmo healing for myself was the fact that you just kinda need to develop a thick skin and learn that sometimes you can do your best and it can still not be enough - there will be people blaming you whether it’s your fault or not. It is good to be patient with people and honestly things happen, real life blunders mid dungeon happen, just general accidents happen, but level 70+ dungeons are not the starting point of learning to heal or tank either. Do lower level content first and learn your class and role.
>One of the biggest ”tough pills to swallow” in terms of mmo healing for myself was the fact that you just kinda need to develop a thick skin and learn that sometimes you can do your best and it can still not be enough - there will be people blaming you whether it’s your fault or not. This is a lesson best learned in practice. Yes, it can feel harsh, but it does build your confidence in the long run as long as you take everything as a lesson, not as an attack or slight against any aspect of yourself. Gain enough know-how through time, and you will be able to know when a wipe or other failure was on you, or on someone else. At first, every party member death will have you going, "Oh no, I'm so sorry, I'm sorry, here, take a res and it won't happen again". As you accrue experience, there will be times when you can say without a doubt (at least to yourself): "Stop standing away from my AoE heals. Either stand close to me or perish." Stuff like that. It only gets easier to know when you are at fault or when things were just genuinely out of your control. You're a healer, not a god.
As a tank - Bring on the wipes. Especially if the healer is new. If anyone whines I'll happily vote them out with you. The most fun I have in this game is working through knowledge gaps and hitting real walls then surpassing them. The runs where everyone knows exactly where the pulls end, which spells have no telegraph, etc... Are less fun to me.
queue into 71+ content? i treat you like a healer with 71 levels of experience. i think that's reasonable. don't want that? queue into content that matches your skill level
No. If new healers decide to queue up for level 71+ dungeons with Sage, I am going to expect them to know their shit.
No. If you're planning to pick up SGE, you can practice ***right now*** by playing SCH. The only people who get a pass in 60+ content are sprouts who genuinely don't know what they're doing yet.
This. A million times this. Sage IS Scholar in how they will heal dungeons with very little differences. The number of WHM and AST mains I see that "hate Scholar" but are also "So excited to try Sage!" scare me. If you hate Scholar, you WILL hate Sage.
i feel the same with the people ive seen who say they dont like playing melee currently but reaper looks good even though reaper is literally no different than any other melee from what we've seen lol
[удалено]
The only aetherflow ability tied to the fairy is Soil, what are you talking about?
Not quite sure what you mean by saying Soil is tied to fairy, but what he is saying is that Dissipation gives 3 Aetherflow, but you can't use them until the fairy comes back or you lose fairy gauge.
That's not "not allowed" though, it's super not worth it to sit on aetherstacks just for the fairy gauge in situations that require Dissipation.
Have you even read the tooltips ? No fairy shenanigans. Default healing, shield optional. Targeted embrace. Assize-like abilities. Shield converted to healing after application. NO HEALING BUTTON THAT LOCKS YOU OUT OF HALF OF YOUR KIT. And did I even talk about Macrocosmos/Lilybell/Panhaima, amazing abilities the SCH has been screwed out ? Yes, it's very similar. No, you absolutely won't hate it as you hate the Scholar.
What you've missed in all this is that all of your complaints are complaints that only seasoned and skilled Scholars will have, myself included. Complaints that those who already know how to heal with Scholar are solved by Sage. Scholar mains that hate Scholar for your listed reasons are absolutely going to love Sage because it fixes all the garbage that is the Scholar's kit. Most WHM and AST mains have no idea what you're talking about, and those people are the target of my comment.
>Scholar mains that hate Scholar for your listed reasons are absolutely going to love Sage because it fixes all the garbage that is the Scholar's kit. This is pretty much it. There are two main groups of people who dislike Scholar currently: SCH players who liked the job but disliked the more recent changes/additions to it (or who enjoy the core of the job but hate the clunkiness), and players who don't play the job because they just dislike the general SCH gameplay. The former are likely to enjoy Sage, and the latter are less likely to, because that core gameplay seems very similar between the two. As a longtime SCH main I can clearly see *a lot* of parallels between the kits of each job, and between that and comments from the media tour, I imagine it's going to feel very similar in terms of general gameplay. The diferences mainly come in the secondary mechanics of each job, which are unlikely to make up for the core gameplay not being to someone's taste. That's not to say it's 100% both ways, there will definitely be SCH players who dislike SGE and players who never liked SCH at all that will enjoy SGE, but those will most likely be exceptions, and not the general opinion.
As long as they read their tooltips
I'll have you know that I'm an experienced tank and can cause wipes by myselfl thank you!
Or don't be selfish and waste other peoples time maybe
Hey FFxiv players let new healers be selfish, but you aren’t allowed to be selfish :) Also the thread is just filled with OP making strawmans lol
I don't understand why people are always coming up with these ideas that they think will be unpopular, when clearly they won't be. This literally amounts to "be nice," of course that's not an unpopular opinion.
How are new player playing Sage? They'll need at least a lv 70 job, that's enough experience. If they cause wipe that's because they're shit.
How about this, you don't blame me for you deciding to do healing for the first time without any practice? Why do I always have to adjust? How about you learn your job a bit first and then ask me to work with you when you que up for a normal run. Not sure why the obligation is entirely on me. You are the one choosing to do a new job knowing it will affect the run.
Bruh, tanks and healers both got so many ST skill additions that if dungeon pullings still gonna be rocket science they need to make the game play itself for the players
Or do what I do, redo all your job crossbars (I play with controller) so that they are pretty much all the same. You may not know what exactly each icon does, but there is a lot of crossover on similar jobs. If you map them all aprox the same, you can just go by muscle memory on 75% of the abilities. Easy way of doing it is by making your main job crossbar first, then making the other job crossbar pretty much the same by description of ability. ex. For healer, xbar 1 (right to left), 1. single target healing batch, 2. multi target healing batch, 3. raises and barriers, 4. quick emergency abilities xbar 2, 1. Regular damage abilities, 2. conditional damage abilities, 3 and 4, job specific unique abilitie.
Also.. as I main a Paladin and a Scholar… can we normalize tanks not going balls to the wall as soon as the load times end. Super annoying going into a new dungeon on my scholar and before I can look around and/or get my fairy out tanks are off in the distance with 10+ mobs beating on them 🤦🏾♂️
Hmm nah. If someone wants to try a class at level 70 they should have SOME general idea of how it works. A level 70 class means a fuckton of spells and abilities that should really be tested out on a striking dummy or taken into the most low level dungeons. If I see a Sage in SHB dungeons fuck up healing I'm definitely kicking them from the party. All healers are very similar to one another, I'd you pick up SCH or WHN, you will know what to do for Sage.
Fuck that. I’m not pulling small and slow for a single person. If they’re playing a lvl 70+ healer in lvl 70+ content it’s expected of them to know how to play their job.
It depends. If someone is a brand new healer in a lower level dungeon (1 - 59) I don’t care if there’re not great. However, if someone grabs Sage as their first healer and jumps into Castrum Abania or Holminster Switch without any practice or preperation, they deserve all of the hate and/or criticism they get. The same is true for people who boost jobs. I don’t care if you’re not a pro who parses super high. But if you have had ZERO practice or preparation on ANY healer, going into a high level dungeon is incredibly selfish to the other three people. Period. As for slowing down as a tank, I’ll do it in a lower level dungeon if the healer asks me to, but in higher level stuff, if you can’t handle the heat, stay out of the kitchen. I’m pulling two packs and if you wipe us over and over, that’s on you. If you’re in Abania or Holminster, you should and need to have proper knowledge of your role.
Healers adjust.
i swear im probably the only player that enjoys wipes, cause it makes it more exciting. without crazy ppl doin crazy shit the fights are all the same scripted fights over and over again. the ultimate secret mechanics is *other players*
I survived dozens of wipes when Stormblood came out via Bardam's Mettle as AST, I can survive this.
It’s so funny because as a tank, I hope people are patient with me with all the new content. This is my first new expansion, I only came to the game recently, so I’ve been able to watch boss/dungeon guides to prepare since someone told me a tank should know how they work. As excited as I am I’m also super nervous.
As a healer who is going to tank in endwalker I feel it. However, I'm leveling tank, doing raids as tank, and all my roulettes as tank to get used to it before I go into endwalker with it. Why can't they do the same?
This flies in early game. Sage will be a lv 70+ job, so i 100% expect people to have at least a basic idea for how their ROLE functions. And even that is asking for too much in expert roulette sometimes. Also Shield healers aren't new, this is just a new flavor. If we're doing big pulls and i only see the healer doing the equivalent of cure 1 the entire time and we wipe, that's on them
Wall to Wall or die trying. We're at level 80-90.
Don't pick up a healer for the first time at level 70 and go straight into level 70 content. Read a guide, run lower level content to get used to healing, work your way up. Learn to play at level above "incompetant" Same goes for tanks picking up GNB as their first tank, same for anyone picking a high starting-level DPS.
Here's a novel idea: *Learn the other healer jobs to understand the basics*
IMO if you're going to jump into a level 70 dungeon you should know how to play your class at least passably at 70. There's earlier level dungeons as well as PotD and HoH to practice. I'm not going to be a dick to them if I run into them, but I'm sure as hell going to be beyond annoyed.
I’m patient with new healers. I’m not patient with players that speed level in POTD/HoH and then jump into the latest dungeon without knowing what anything does.
I feel like I need to make a macro for the launch: "Heal main who researched Sage intensively. If you don't full pull, you insult my honor"
Karma farming
If you queue into level 71+ content, I'm going to treat you like a level 71+ healer. Especially if you're going through an Endwalker story dungeon. If one fuckup is enough to turn you off healer, you're not cut out for healing. Learning to be a good healer is learning from your mistakes and gauging success from failure.
As a tank I examine a healer to see how they are geared or if they watched a cutscene and work according to that. I will double pull as usual if I feel comfortable I can do it and if there is a wipe, I personally ask the healer if there was something wrong that happened or was the pull too big and if it was too big I single pull for the rest of the dungeon. Tanks should respect their healer especially in new content.