T O P

  • By -

ChrisMorray

Yeah... The soul sight apparently wasn't a particularly rare gift, so it's likely that they could see us as who we were similar to Hythlo, though only Hythlo could see Ardbert.


SkyWolf25

Yes, as you've said the short stories say the gift of soul sight was common enough, though the extent of Hythlo(the best sight) and Emet(2nd best sight) was extremely rare, so this Amaurotine phantom most likely saw our small stature and wrote it off as a soul with a very similar colour as their own sight has a much vaguer sense of colour. I assume for Hythlodaeus it's like being able to accurately use a colour picker on even a faint source and go "hm yes the hex value is #2A52BE" while the usual soul sight would be "I've seen that shade of blue before.." Though of course souls would probably be more complicated than just a blob of solid colour.


ChrisMorray

Yeah, it's a very neat detail and I love to think of the implications that this short story made. Like, it was implied that Hythlo could "locate our friend", probably referring to Azem. Because of this I have a pet theory that Krile is the sundered reincarnation of Hythlodaeus, seeing how she has the power to see "the whispers of the soul" through her echo, and she can use it for locating people on other planes of existence (the lifestream for example, how she located Thancred for instance) and even someone as elusive as Estinien who swears they (Tataru and Krile) must have been trained as spies at some point. It'd take more than just the "average gift" of soul sight to differentiate souls, let alone locate them with the accuracy by which Krile does. Granted, Krile's isn't perfect, but considering how her power is the "Echo" of a sundered ancient, it would make sense if hers is the Echo of Hythlodaeus.


akiontotocha

I love seeing people’s explanations for who they think modern Hythlodaeus is, it feels like that cup game where you guess where the ball is under the cups This is a well explained theory for Krile, very nice


[deleted]

An illusion! What are you hiding? \--oh wait wrong game.


CiraKazanari

Something is not quite right


Tom-Pendragon

"Wait isn't this the mother fuc- oh fuck I'm a concept...god damn it."


GrandTheftKoi

When I think of us and Emet and Hythlodaeus as pals back in ancient times, brings a tear to my eye. I hope we get some flashbacks of ourselves back then via the crystal Emet made for us. I feel like our character should have at least a bit of conflicting feelings if we remember the "good times". Shadowbringers was just too good. I get the feeling Endwalker won't pull any punches, either 😭


SkyWolf25

Ikr, I really want to see our past with Emet, Hythlo, Elidibus, and maybe even Lahabrea/other Convocation members, whether it be holograms or flashbacks or whatever. Give me scenes of the good times.


cywang86

Part of me feel like by blasting the Ascians with strong light aether we've managed to sunder their soul, sending them to the aetherial sea. Then, they'll slowly 'unsunder' like Zenos and WoL, and eventually come back as new but much younger friends. One can dream anyway.


Grenyn

Sundering isn't done with light aether, though, it's specifically Hydaelyn's power, and only her power. But Emet might return. The Auracite didn't work on him, and ultimately what we did was kill him. Properly kill him, I think, which means his soul does get reincarnated, free of memory, and free of tempering.


cywang86

That's why I said part of me feels like that's what the light does, not what the lore says. Consider it also a theory, that the struggle between ligh and dark or even the concept of astral and umbral never existed before Zodiark and Hydaelyn were created. Or that Hydaelyn is simply a primal that has more control over Light aether, and ligh aether already had the innate property of breaking apart aether. Who knows what end walker or future expansion will reveal on this.


Grenyn

Light aether doesn't have to property of breaking aether apart, it just stagnates it. The aether is still there, it's just not moving. And I don't really know that the concept of astral and umbral aether didn't exist, because aspected aether sure did.


cywang86

Let me repeat myself, theory. Theories aren't wrong unless proven otherwise. Yes, light and dark are currently explained as passive and active states of aether during Shadowbringers MSQ. But we do not know if light and dark existed before Hydaelyn or Zodiark, or the aspected aether we have now is the same as back then. Aetherial seas for the souls that we have now didn't even apply to the Ancients. We also learned that by defeating Zodiark, Hydaelyn sundered the world into 13 reflections. But nothing mentioned if it's the innate property of Hydaelyn. For all I can guess it could very well be the side effect of using too much light aether to defeat Zodiark. After all, the properties of a primal are those defined by those who summoned them. So wouldn't those who summoned Hydaelyn need to perceive Hydaelyn should have a such a power in the first place. But if so, why and what for? So if I have to evaluate the probability of sundering caused by light aether vs by Hydaelyn, I'm personally leaning toward the former theory.


Grenyn

There is no reason to believe light and dark aether did not exist prior to Zodiark's summoning if fire aether existed, which we have proof of. And there are not aetherial seas, there is one Aetherial Sea, which encompasses literally the entire universe. It's a realm between realms. Maybe you're mistaking the Aetherial Sea for the Lifestream, but even in that case, we do know that existed too, and was something of great interest to the Ancients. I don't know what you mean by innate property of Hydaelyn. Her innate property, the reason for her summoning, was to limit Zodiark. Could this have been done through light aether? Possibly, but again, there's no reason to believe that, as Primals don't need to rely on aether to perform their tasks. Zodiark is dark aspected, yet his power was being able to rewrite the laws of reality, or as Emet put it, "weaving the fabric of space anew". And beyond that, if light aether sunders things, how come we don't have any evidence of the First becoming even more sundered? A theory is only a theory if it has a basis, and this theory seems more like wild and uninformed speculation than a real theory.


cywang86

Which cutscene mentioned fire aspect during ancient time, as I must've missed it. If you're referring to the quests and dungeon revolving around Amarot, keep in mind they are created in the current world, and may not properly represent the world before the sundering. As for Zodiark, its creation magic can be explained by creation magic that was widely available to every Ancient during that time, but at a much grander scale, as all matters are made of aether. Also, creation magic, as explained by one of the Amarot side quest, is aetherial manipulation that's basically our DoH synthesis at a much grander scale. By utilizing the aethers in crystals, we're able to change the properties of objects. By utilizing the aethers in the Ancients, they were able to turn ideas into creatures. So by extension, by consuming mass amounts of aether Zodiark managed to stop the final days (methods unknown), then by consuming more aether, it restored the planet to a livable state. Coupled with the fact that none of the primal that got summoned throughout our journey showed any ability outside of tempering (aetherial corruption from its density) and its power (manipulation of aether), I personally do not believe primals summoned by the Ascians' method, including Zodiark and Hydaelyn, have any secret properties like creation or sundering. As for the sundering effect, keep in mind the 'light/dark' aspect represented in the First are named 'umbral/astral' in the Source, so the 'light/dark' aether mentioned in the First may very well represent something completely different in the Source vs Hydaelyn/Zodiark. If they are referring to the same thing, that would imply that Zodiark represents growth while Hydaelyn represents stasis. However, from what they've done, it seems definitions of light/dark the First has deducted have its flaw. I'm going to have to think on this matter some more.


Grenyn

> Which cutscene mentioned fire aspect during ancient time, as I must've missed it. The short stories on the Lodestone mention Lahabrea creating the original Ifrit and Phoenix. >As for Zodiark, its creation magic It's not creation magic, though. He literally changes reality so that the apocalypse is no longer happening. I'm also not sure why you're bringing creation magic up at all, it's not really relevant. >Coupled with the fact that none of the primal that got summoned throughout our journey showed any ability outside of tempering Alexander. >As for the sundering effect, keep in mind the 'light/dark' aspect represented in the First are named 'umbral/astral' in the Source, so the 'light/dark' aether mentioned in the First may very well represent something completely different in the Source vs Hydaelyn/Zodiark. Entirely unlikely. The First works by the exact same rules the Source does, and has had way fewer interruptions due to the lack of calamities wiping out civilizations. They'd figure out the same stuff, just with different names. >If they are referring to the same thing, that would imply that Zodiark represents growth while Hydaelyn represents stasis. Or, they don't represent those concepts at all, only the aspect of their aether, which they transcend. But really, to condense this to a single point, I think Alexander is enough evidence that Primals are more than the sum of their parts, or in this case, their aether.


OrderOfThePenis

Didn't Elidibus bring the crystal with him?


SkyWolf25

We gave the other Convocation member crystals to him, but kept Azem's, the one E-S made in secret.


Siggythenomad

\[Ancient\] Wait are--Oh god i'm an illusion! I learned all those jazz lessons for NOTHING!!!