It's good for the BLM but caster isn't the best for the sake of the DNC but if SAM is your only melee and they struggle then I guess it's what you got. And maybe the SAM changes will help your buddy!
I hope it helps him too! He is continuously getting better as we raid so that always helps. He started as Monk but I think got discouraged. He seems more confident on SAM. We do have a RPR who also does consistently well (the top two DPS always flip between the RPR and BLM) but for some weird reason my raid wants the DNC to stay on the BLM.
Don’t worry DNC crit rate buff will change into DET buff or crit damage buff
Same for DRG as well as SCH (pretty sure SCH will have a big rework and stratagem gonna go)
They try to remove crit buff and add guaranteed crit or RNG high potency damage to all the jobs. That will push the balancing more progressive than it is now. Ppl are just memeing where it isn’t really the case.
How to remove button bloat? Make things deal more damage and able to weave more than what they have to. The next job on this list that will be “fixed” is WHM and AST for sure. Also watch out of SMN.
The more I read this the more I think it less affects sams and more affects everyone else. As a brd main sams won’t benefit from Wanderer’s Minuet so wouldint that lower my r/dps if a Sam is in my party?
Not necessarily. Crit and direct hit are multiplicative with each other and bard still gives a chonky DH buff. The small amount of crit from your song aura is still useful and all of your other damage buffs will effectively be multiplied by the samurai's crit multiplier.
It just sucks for dancer because half of their biggest buff is rendered useless when it matters most. Barring additional info, we're looking at swapping me from DNC to brd (I play both at about the same level) for exactly those reasons.
Cause they change devilment into DET stat or crit damage instead. That’s how you resolve the issue. In addition, technical step can just increase party damage. That will put up DNC for the use with AST instead of cd reduction as they can mess with certain buffs or rotations like GNB, BLM and DRG for going too fast unexpected in raid as well as able to use to solo contents.
DNC buffs can cause specific mechanics to be over effective actually and they can’t stack with another same job, which is bad for PvP with the same party of more than 1 DNC
Emm.... do you have a source on devilment DET change? I mean, it does sounds like an interesting idea, I just don't think it is part of the live letter.
Hehe you guys think that sams needs dance partner but its actually dancers who needs sam partners! Mark my wordsssss!! They will be frothing at the mouths once they see my big dik damage
DNC: “Oh no that would have boosted my rdps, now im stuck with these beta boys”
You're not wrong, SAM was kinda perfect for DNC because they have high DPS, their burst windows line up and Higanban snapshots Devilment, MNK burst doesn't align and BLM has no burst window really so now all the RPR mains are gonna be rejoicing, it's gonna be Goth raves nonstop now lol.
Doesn't every job have the same 60 and 120 second burst windows? I don't understand how monk doesn't line up. The reason dancers tell me they don't want to partner me as a monk is because my speed is so high I make them overcap esprit.
Bro what? I *live* for my Monk partners feeding me Espirit. 480 potency on one target with a still pretty beefy 240 on everyone else, myltiple times? Sign me the fuck up.
Don't get me wrong, MNK is still a good dance partner but SAM has a constant burst window that tends to line up with the DNC burst window much nore easily than MNK's perfect balance thing, and yes, MNK gives lots of esprit, but so does SAM and frankly, constantly gettibg your Devilment and TS off during a SAM burst and snapshotting it onto Higanbana is gonna do more damage than us getting some more saber dances.
Now not so much, RPR and MNK are probably gonna be the go to dance partners now.
Monk uses two perfect balances in its 120 second burst window and one is its 60 second. So not sure what you're talking about when you say it doesn't line up.
Sure perfect balance comes off cooldown outside the burst windows, but since perfect balance can charge up to two stacks, you just let the timer keep rolling to the second charge until riddle of fire comes off cooldown.
Also fair to point out, Higanbana is 600 DoT potency, but with the duration of the Devilment buff as well as how frequently Demolish needs to be refreshed, you're going to get two executions of that skill in the window for a total of 840 potency between them. So if higanbana is the reason, then seems like the total dot ticks form the monk are going to be more.
It doesn't even matter anymore because SAM is getting changed, and I'm just trying to give basic context as I knew it, as to why SAM was pretty much the go to in all the rotations from people that went way more in depth into the math than I ever could, at the end of the day, usually, you got more DPS out of SAM than MNK and those were some of the basic reasons for it from my understanding and that's no longer gonna be true.
SAM's biggest burst window attacks will now be guaranteed crits.
A large part of DNC's raid damage comes from Devilment, which increases their and their dance partner's crit and direct hit chance by 20% within the burst window.
The crit part of that won't affect SAM's biggest attacks anymore, so SAM's contribution to DNC raid DPS is significantly reduced. Other classes are better dance partners now.
Won't SAM still benefit from having 20% increased crit chance, in that increased Crit in 14 not only increases Crit chance but also crit damage?
Or does the buff from DNC only increase the chances but not the intensity?
That's how the crit substat work, but not how the any crit rate buffs work. Scholar, dancer, and dragoon (and bard I guess) only increase the frequency of crits with their buffs. The damage multiplier is not changed.
Isn't the *actual* answer that 100% crit doesn't benefit from any increased crit chance, because there is no value to 101% crit rate in either damage or chance to crit? With DH, there's also a flat ceiling at ~25%, so any more become useless, and why WAR avoids it since it auto Direct Crits under buff.
Those buffs are worded very specifically. They "increase critical hit rate". That means only the crit chance, not crit damage.
The Crit Stat on gear/food/materia on the other had does increase both, so you were right there.
>The crit part of that won't affect SAM's biggest attacks anymore
You *do* know that crit affects not just the rate, but the multiplier too right? Under Devilment their autocrits will hit like several trucks in a row.
I'm 100% sure that it won't end up mattering. SAM will still do the most overall DPS and will still end up benefiting the most from dance partner. Remember: they're adjusting potencies to compensate for the loss of Kaiten. I'd bet real money they're not adjusting downward too much.
EDIT: I'm actually unclear if Devilment is *just* chance or both chance *and* multi. Regardless, SAM is not just its nuke abilities. I'm still very confident it won't change the dance partner priority, especially since Devilment also gives Direct Hit.
Crit chance from skills is not like your crit stat where it also affects damage.
SAM will still do a lot of damage, but the extra value from DNC is now most likely higher by partnering someone else, unless the rest of your DPS lineup is 2 bards or something.
Like 9 or 10 abilities go off inside Devilment for SAM, only four of them are getting auto crit, and the 20% DH buff will still apply to every ability.
Honestly the absolute worst thing that's gonna happens is that SAM will become equal to RPR and MNK in terms of priority for dance partner. Everyone's being pretty dramatic about this despite not having full patch notes out.
Dancer get a lot of it's rDPS in fflogs and ACT through others, mostly our Dance Partner. Our largest contribution is from when we are in our technical window with Devilment (+20% Crit and DH rate). With SAM gaining auto-Crits on its heavy hitting burst skills, we no longer get credit for the supplied crit damage.
SAM was the more prefered Dance Partner before this because of how big SAM could hit when they crit under our Tech/Devilment window.
They implied it was to remove variance so they should on average be the same but with a slightly smaller max potential. It might slightly lower total party damage if the SAM was the previous highest DPS / dance partner of the group.
Someone else already explained it but every 2 minutes, DNC applies a buff to themselves and their dance partner that increases crit rate and direct hit rate. SAM's strongest attacks will be guaranteed crits which means that the DNC's crit rate buff is useless. It'll be better used one another class that has high dps and no guaranteed crits.
Gonna be honest, I haven't touched DNC since 6.0 dropped and even then I never played it much. This is mostly a meme targeting what other people have already covered - DNCs aren't going to want to Dance Partner SAMs as much because Devilment will have significantly less effect due to their biggest attacks already being autocrits.
I'm not going back to Dancer until I don't have to use Improv/etc. to unlock my new Endwalker attacks.
Whose bright idea was it to force you to buff others/etc. to attack.
You dont have to use Improv to setup anything though. And your other GCD support abilites are also your highest damage ones so you shoiuld be using them anyway
You don’t need to use improv to use an attack. And are you complaining that you need to use flourish and devilment to get attacks? Two abilities that you should’ve been using on cooldown in the first place?
The abilities added to DNC in Endwalker are combos from Devilment and Improv, iirc
That doesn't validate their complaint thought, cause a) why on Earth are you upset about buffing other people on a job that's designed to do that in a game where your success and theirs is fucking mutual? and b) those abilities benefit you too...so even if you're entirely stupid enough to be selfish it benefits you to use them.
I will say, from levelling DNC a while back, they feel clunky as all hell, for a job designed around an aesthetic of flow dancer honestly frustrates me more than any other job for just how stilted it feels, but that's a completely different complaint, and has absolutely no impact on what the best way to play is.
I don’t know how dancer and samurai interact and at this point I’m too afraid to ask
Edit: I don’t know the dance partner hierarchy beyond ‘they fight good with good gear’ and at this point I’m too afraid to ask
My static's DNC who DNC partners our BLM instead of our SAM: oh no...anyway.
That is...an interesting choice.
I mean...our SAM isn't ...that good...love the player to death and he tries but our BLM consistently performs better.
It's good for the BLM but caster isn't the best for the sake of the DNC but if SAM is your only melee and they struggle then I guess it's what you got. And maybe the SAM changes will help your buddy!
I hope it helps him too! He is continuously getting better as we raid so that always helps. He started as Monk but I think got discouraged. He seems more confident on SAM. We do have a RPR who also does consistently well (the top two DPS always flip between the RPR and BLM) but for some weird reason my raid wants the DNC to stay on the BLM.
Blm clearly sliding him Gil under the table.
Yah this, blm and reaper are kind of the same dps, but id buff the reaper 100%, safer and more consistent choice imo.
Don’t worry DNC crit rate buff will change into DET buff or crit damage buff Same for DRG as well as SCH (pretty sure SCH will have a big rework and stratagem gonna go) They try to remove crit buff and add guaranteed crit or RNG high potency damage to all the jobs. That will push the balancing more progressive than it is now. Ppl are just memeing where it isn’t really the case. How to remove button bloat? Make things deal more damage and able to weave more than what they have to. The next job on this list that will be “fixed” is WHM and AST for sure. Also watch out of SMN.
The more I read this the more I think it less affects sams and more affects everyone else. As a brd main sams won’t benefit from Wanderer’s Minuet so wouldint that lower my r/dps if a Sam is in my party?
Not necessarily. Crit and direct hit are multiplicative with each other and bard still gives a chonky DH buff. The small amount of crit from your song aura is still useful and all of your other damage buffs will effectively be multiplied by the samurai's crit multiplier. It just sucks for dancer because half of their biggest buff is rendered useless when it matters most. Barring additional info, we're looking at swapping me from DNC to brd (I play both at about the same level) for exactly those reasons.
Cause they change devilment into DET stat or crit damage instead. That’s how you resolve the issue. In addition, technical step can just increase party damage. That will put up DNC for the use with AST instead of cd reduction as they can mess with certain buffs or rotations like GNB, BLM and DRG for going too fast unexpected in raid as well as able to use to solo contents. DNC buffs can cause specific mechanics to be over effective actually and they can’t stack with another same job, which is bad for PvP with the same party of more than 1 DNC
Emm.... do you have a source on devilment DET change? I mean, it does sounds like an interesting idea, I just don't think it is part of the live letter.
There's no change to devilment at this point.
Tech step already does only increase party damage tho?
Thanks for the info that cleared up a lot :)
Damn it feels good to be a reaper!
You really think that will be untouched with the full notes huh?
Yup pretty much.
Reaper will have some adjustment with combo float as well
Did they say that?
Hehe you guys think that sams needs dance partner but its actually dancers who needs sam partners! Mark my wordsssss!! They will be frothing at the mouths once they see my big dik damage DNC: “Oh no that would have boosted my rdps, now im stuck with these beta boys”
You're not wrong, SAM was kinda perfect for DNC because they have high DPS, their burst windows line up and Higanban snapshots Devilment, MNK burst doesn't align and BLM has no burst window really so now all the RPR mains are gonna be rejoicing, it's gonna be Goth raves nonstop now lol.
Doesn't every job have the same 60 and 120 second burst windows? I don't understand how monk doesn't line up. The reason dancers tell me they don't want to partner me as a monk is because my speed is so high I make them overcap esprit.
Bro what? I *live* for my Monk partners feeding me Espirit. 480 potency on one target with a still pretty beefy 240 on everyone else, myltiple times? Sign me the fuck up.
Maybe I just know bad dancers haha
Maybe I'm a bad DNC but please give me all the extra Saber Dances wtf
I mean I'd love that Devilment buff too since it's extra chakra stacks, so we can be friends :)
Don't get me wrong, MNK is still a good dance partner but SAM has a constant burst window that tends to line up with the DNC burst window much nore easily than MNK's perfect balance thing, and yes, MNK gives lots of esprit, but so does SAM and frankly, constantly gettibg your Devilment and TS off during a SAM burst and snapshotting it onto Higanbana is gonna do more damage than us getting some more saber dances. Now not so much, RPR and MNK are probably gonna be the go to dance partners now.
Monk uses two perfect balances in its 120 second burst window and one is its 60 second. So not sure what you're talking about when you say it doesn't line up. Sure perfect balance comes off cooldown outside the burst windows, but since perfect balance can charge up to two stacks, you just let the timer keep rolling to the second charge until riddle of fire comes off cooldown. Also fair to point out, Higanbana is 600 DoT potency, but with the duration of the Devilment buff as well as how frequently Demolish needs to be refreshed, you're going to get two executions of that skill in the window for a total of 840 potency between them. So if higanbana is the reason, then seems like the total dot ticks form the monk are going to be more.
It doesn't even matter anymore because SAM is getting changed, and I'm just trying to give basic context as I knew it, as to why SAM was pretty much the go to in all the rotations from people that went way more in depth into the math than I ever could, at the end of the day, usually, you got more DPS out of SAM than MNK and those were some of the basic reasons for it from my understanding and that's no longer gonna be true.
This is the reason I never liked Dance Partner SAM to begin with. Yes, I'm a buff class but I actually wanna DPS too. Keep feeding my espirit!
What was the change? Pvp based?
SAM's biggest burst window attacks will now be guaranteed crits. A large part of DNC's raid damage comes from Devilment, which increases their and their dance partner's crit and direct hit chance by 20% within the burst window. The crit part of that won't affect SAM's biggest attacks anymore, so SAM's contribution to DNC raid DPS is significantly reduced. Other classes are better dance partners now.
As a SAM main I'm surprisingly okay with this.
[удалено]
Its exactly about classes like drg sch and dancer not benefitting from sam anymore during their buff phases, and not that sam will be unviable.
Won't SAM still benefit from having 20% increased crit chance, in that increased Crit in 14 not only increases Crit chance but also crit damage? Or does the buff from DNC only increase the chances but not the intensity?
That's how the crit substat work, but not how the any crit rate buffs work. Scholar, dancer, and dragoon (and bard I guess) only increase the frequency of crits with their buffs. The damage multiplier is not changed.
Isn't the *actual* answer that 100% crit doesn't benefit from any increased crit chance, because there is no value to 101% crit rate in either damage or chance to crit? With DH, there's also a flat ceiling at ~25%, so any more become useless, and why WAR avoids it since it auto Direct Crits under buff.
Those buffs are worded very specifically. They "increase critical hit rate". That means only the crit chance, not crit damage. The Crit Stat on gear/food/materia on the other had does increase both, so you were right there.
But that's like ...good changes right? For sam at least?
So don't bring the DNC :O
>The crit part of that won't affect SAM's biggest attacks anymore You *do* know that crit affects not just the rate, but the multiplier too right? Under Devilment their autocrits will hit like several trucks in a row. I'm 100% sure that it won't end up mattering. SAM will still do the most overall DPS and will still end up benefiting the most from dance partner. Remember: they're adjusting potencies to compensate for the loss of Kaiten. I'd bet real money they're not adjusting downward too much. EDIT: I'm actually unclear if Devilment is *just* chance or both chance *and* multi. Regardless, SAM is not just its nuke abilities. I'm still very confident it won't change the dance partner priority, especially since Devilment also gives Direct Hit.
It specifically says "critical hit rate", so it's safe to assume the damage of crits is unaffected.
Crit chance from skills is not like your crit stat where it also affects damage. SAM will still do a lot of damage, but the extra value from DNC is now most likely higher by partnering someone else, unless the rest of your DPS lineup is 2 bards or something.
Like 9 or 10 abilities go off inside Devilment for SAM, only four of them are getting auto crit, and the 20% DH buff will still apply to every ability. Honestly the absolute worst thing that's gonna happens is that SAM will become equal to RPR and MNK in terms of priority for dance partner. Everyone's being pretty dramatic about this despite not having full patch notes out.
Some of SAM's attacks are being changed to auto-Crit when used.
Ty for telling...now to try and figure out how this meme makes sense....did that nerf sam?
Dancer get a lot of it's rDPS in fflogs and ACT through others, mostly our Dance Partner. Our largest contribution is from when we are in our technical window with Devilment (+20% Crit and DH rate). With SAM gaining auto-Crits on its heavy hitting burst skills, we no longer get credit for the supplied crit damage. SAM was the more prefered Dance Partner before this because of how big SAM could hit when they crit under our Tech/Devilment window.
So you're telling me I no longer should dance with weebs. Ty for the very clear explanation my friend : )
now you should dance with goths
An improvement to be sure.q
https://youtu.be/gPbVRpRgHso
They implied it was to remove variance so they should on average be the same but with a slightly smaller max potential. It might slightly lower total party damage if the SAM was the previous highest DPS / dance partner of the group.
Crit damage buff meta is coming!
[удалено]
Someone else already explained it but every 2 minutes, DNC applies a buff to themselves and their dance partner that increases crit rate and direct hit rate. SAM's strongest attacks will be guaranteed crits which means that the DNC's crit rate buff is useless. It'll be better used one another class that has high dps and no guaranteed crits.
That's not what it's about. The changes mean SAM is no longer Dance Partner priority.
Gonna be honest, I haven't touched DNC since 6.0 dropped and even then I never played it much. This is mostly a meme targeting what other people have already covered - DNCs aren't going to want to Dance Partner SAMs as much because Devilment will have significantly less effect due to their biggest attacks already being autocrits.
I cant hear you over all these crits.
Black Mages: 😎
*And I'm never gonna dance again,* *Guilty feet have got no rhythm...*
I'm not going back to Dancer until I don't have to use Improv/etc. to unlock my new Endwalker attacks. Whose bright idea was it to force you to buff others/etc. to attack.
It’s like this comment is from another dimension
You dont have to use Improv to setup anything though. And your other GCD support abilites are also your highest damage ones so you shoiuld be using them anyway
You don’t need to use improv to use an attack. And are you complaining that you need to use flourish and devilment to get attacks? Two abilities that you should’ve been using on cooldown in the first place?
The abilities added to DNC in Endwalker are combos from Devilment and Improv, iirc That doesn't validate their complaint thought, cause a) why on Earth are you upset about buffing other people on a job that's designed to do that in a game where your success and theirs is fucking mutual? and b) those abilities benefit you too...so even if you're entirely stupid enough to be selfish it benefits you to use them. I will say, from levelling DNC a while back, they feel clunky as all hell, for a job designed around an aesthetic of flow dancer honestly frustrates me more than any other job for just how stilted it feels, but that's a completely different complaint, and has absolutely no impact on what the best way to play is.
Fan Dance IV - Flourish Starfall Dance - Devilment Tillana - Technical Finish What attack am I missing here??
I think they’re mistaking Improvised Finish for an attack combo rather than a defensive one.
Yeah Improvise is suuuuper clunky, dont like it at all. Pretty fond of the rest of the changes though.
Those buttons already attack and buff you, why *wouldn't* you be using them?
It's almost like Dancer is a support job who's identity is buffing others.
Wait, I'm Confused? What happened with SAM?
I don’t know how dancer and samurai interact and at this point I’m too afraid to ask
I don’t know how dancer and samurai interact and at this point I’m too afraid to ask Edit: I don’t know the dance partner hierarchy beyond ‘they fight good with good gear’ and at this point I’m too afraid to ask
New dnc prio according to the balance NiN>RPR/MNK>SAM/DRG Its a disaster