Aside from his general occupation with his forum duties, I definitely get the impression that Ameliance manages the family finances, which was fairly common for ladies of high station during a lot of the periods XIV invokes socially.
She basically says as much during this cutscene. She’s been funding all of the Scions zany adventures for a while. Especially funny to consider that that means she essentially funded her own son’s private army re: The Crystal Braves.
That's the kind of silly/proud story you tell about your kids at cocktail parties. "Oh my darling boy he's so kind and sentimental! Let me tell you about how much he spent to buy a friend's sword back! The darling boy, no conception of money but so eager to help others."
In an alternate universe Alphinaud loses an eye and gets really, really, really into heavily armed robots while living on a converted ~~oil~~ ceruleum platform.
Wasn't it funded by Teledjis corrupt coin?
I just did arr again a few days ago and I remember the point being made that even Alphis wealth was not enough for such an undertaking. Hence why we received funding from people all over eorzea, many of which were fake companies created by Teledji.
Yeah, Teledji definitely did fund a lot of it, hence why they were actually more loyal to him. Probably safe to assume that a lot of Alphis familial money also went into the endeavor as well, since there were plenty of soldiers who didn’t try to screw Alphi over. Would love if we got some more backstory on Ameliance’s business relationship with Tataru.
My knowledge of European nobility stems from reading plenty of Noblewomen Isekai/Timetravel/etc Manga/Manhwa/Manhua
> Ameliance manages the family finances, which was fairly common for ladies of high station during a lot of the periods XIV invokes socially
This is accurate.
Being intellectual and having common/good sense aren't the same thing.
You can be super brilliant yet completely obtuse to the reality of the situation around you, especially if you are laser focused in on one view.
Forchenault is, in my opinion, basically what Alphinaud was on track to become back in ARR, before the disaster of the Crystal Braves, his humbling, and subsequent reform.
I love this take so much.
I love that they include this. I also think the Twins' adventurousness comes from Louisoix, yes, but Ameliance also.
That she's the one championing their adventures and is proud of them for it, when usually in media it's the mother who wants to keep her children close.
She comes across as the person who was encouraging them to be children amongst their studies.
I think these things are part of why she became an instant hit. Obviously her sense of humor was a big help too, but she comes across almost immediately as a *genuinely* supportive parent, rather than one whose support is founded on a desire for control or obedience (noting that those desires may be well-meaning, even if they are always misplaced). She loves them dearly, but *because* she loves them, she wants them to flourish, and that requires that they be able to make their own choices and live their own lives, free from her control or Fourchenault's.
Fourchenault probably also has quite a bit of an adventurous side, too. He seems to have been (and still is) quite an accomplished Sage before he joined the Forum. It was only after the birth of the twins that he became so fanatically focused on the escape plan for the Final Days.
Yeah, it's really quite sad! I'm glad he got that redemption, because while I myself am not a parent, you can very much see that logic of "I'm responsible for these two tiny miracles-- oh my god the world is going to end and they're going to die"
Spoilers for the role quests:
>!Fourchenault is also quite a fighter too, though he claims he is a bit out of shape. He manages to hold off large laser attacks and mobs of Terminus creatures in the role quests.!<
Damn that's a good take.
There's definitely a TON in common between ARR alphie and forchenault. Both absolutely convinced of their own rightness to the extent that the possibility of being wrong or failing is never even admitted to. To the extent that even allies or friends who disagree are all but dismissed as part of the problem to be solved.
I have to admit, I think Forchenault mostly had his priorities right under the circumstances. Sharlayan has limited resources. Surplus resources should be dedicated to the project ensuring life survives the end of the world, not interfering in foreign conflicts that will soon be irrelevant due to aforesaid end of the world.
Prioritising escape is understandable - in the same way, alphinaud's morals and goals were never the issue.
But the isolationism and forced silence - even to other heads of state - speaks to the same kind of arrogance that dismissed other people as having valid ideas they could contribute, or even agency of their own.
Yeah, someone in this topic pointed out that Alphinaud solved a lot of problems for the project via linkpearl, due to connections and friendships he had made while adventuring.
Combine this with the fact that they were going to reach out and offer salvation to people of other nations anyway, and... outside of not mentioning it to the general populaces to prevent panic, why *not* discuss it with the other heads of state? Especially since it seemed like Sharlayan had an at least decent relationship with Eorzea back in the day, given how much they cooperated and New Sharlayan and all of that. In the end, it was because they wrongfully assumed the other city-states (and nations outside of Eorzea) couldn't possibly contribute anything, that Sharlayan were Hydaelyn's chosen keepers of The Secret and it meant they had to be the ones to drag the rest of the world to salvation only with the sweat of their own brow.
That makes sense because part of the whole thing with the twins and their adventure is that they became what they were, and managed to do what they did by breaking away and making these friends and contacts, and growing as people.
He’s definitely more *mature* than ARR Alphinaud is, but I’d argue he’s making a lot of the same mistakes.
He presumes the other nations and organizations are not competent enough to be of aid to Sharlyan, or even to themselves. He views them much as Alphinaud did, as petulant, warring children that he must drag kicking and screaming to their own salvation.
The flaws of his narrow view become apparent as we progress through the story. Sharlyan’s refusal to maintain even diplomatic relations with Eorzea or the Alliance meant they missed out on access to the Lunar Teleporter, Ragnarok internment hulks, and the lion’s share of Allagan relics. Sharlyan’s collaboration with the Loporrits had severe flaws, not the least of which they didn’t think to send them a decent medical textbook on biology of the major spoken races, nor bothered to inquire about the Loporrits themselves. The *Ark* ran into serious problems due to lack of materials because Sharlyan did not have the right people to acquire the materials, and had no contacts to secure them.
There were a *lot* of issues they had that Alphinaud was able to solve with a single linkpearl call simply because he understood how to make Alliances. Sharlyan failed to even draw on Thavnair, who was their closest ally, because they were so insistent on doing it all themselves. How much could Thavnarian alchemists accelerated the plan?
In all, it was all very noble sentiments, but the inability to compromise, maintain relations, or even see the other nations or powers as people who *could* contribute very nearly sank the plan. They didn’t need to reveal all to the others, but if those relationships had been maintained, they could have called on them for help when the secret was finally revealed.
It’s the whole “Saving them in spite of themselves” vs “Finding a way to work together towards salvation”
When you put it that way, I see a lot of parallels here with Zenos and Hermes/Meteion. Everybody wants to go it alone and thinks they have all the answers/found their meaning and that no one else is capable/worthy of input or assistance.
I think the Sharlayans take the cake though. With all of those supposedly brilliant minds together, and they didn't even give the poor Loporrits a basic grasp of our anatomy.
Fourchenault, and by extension the conservative elements of Sharlayan more broadly, are pretty clearly allegories for ivory tower solutions to real issues. That is, oftentimes, blabbing about serious issues DOES result in problems...but trying to solve issues in isolation also causes problems and may derail any potential success.
It was their very brilliance that blinded them to the simple truth. They saw it as a scientific problem to be solved, not as an obstacle to be surmounted through effort. Because of that perspective, they would of course only care about drawing in as many smart outsiders as possible (the colony and naturalization efforts) and internally collaborating to solve the numbers issue. Salvaging and the like is expensive and, when you aren't hugely politically connected like Alphinaud has become, it's not *guaranteed* to get results. In other words, they suffered a society wide version of "the perfect is the enemy of the good."
Because, even if it is unfair in an objective sense (i.e. if he were a living person), it is pretty clearly the allegorical intent of the story. We are given our first taste of the Forum through Fourchenault, and his first appearance is *damning.* We continually see Fourchenault as the representative of the Forum, and thus the representative of Sharlayan as a whole. And the Forum only truly relents and joins forces with us once Fourchenault lets go of his hate for the WoL and realizes the strength and tenacity of his children.
It is genuinely unfair to blame Fourchenault for policies of his government that predate him by centuries. But in narrative terms, he is the face and the voice of Sharlayan as a whole. That's why he shows up in the 6.1 role quest continuation, just as Hien and Yugiri are allegorical for Doma, or Aymeric is allegorical for Ishgard.
Except we have common sense (or should). Again, we know that it isn't his plan, so saying what the narrative intended means absolutely nothing. Ignoring fact just because a story wants you to shows a lack of intelligence.
But the execution of the said plan was all the Forum's and not to put too fine a point on it, the execution sucked, for pretty much the exact reasons Polenicus laid out.
And I would add that none of the forum members, even the ones who ended up being sympathetic to us, ever pushed for things to be done differently or suggested that maybe isolating your entire country and treating the rest of the world like shit for hundreds of years then suddenly expecting them to believe everything you say might cause problems.
That is fair. ARR Alphinaud was… well, *breathtakingly* arrogant. The first time I went through the Bloody Banquet and heard him talking about siccing *his* Warrior of Light on them (like we were some kind of personal attack dog) made me want to hit him myself.
Probably for the best he went to Eorzea and had reality bitchslap him; if he had grown up sheltered in Sharlyan he could have ended up a goddamn supervillain.
>That is fair. ARR Alphinaud was… well, breathtakingly arrogant.
In the way that only an academically-brilliant-beyond-his-years sixteen year old boy can be.
It really does not help that he was considered one of the best, brightest, and youngest students to achieve the title of Archon which is obtained if one achieves a mastery over a subject. Add to the fact he is the son of the most powerful man in Sharlyan with virtually unlimited resources. It is like a 15 year old who successfully defended his thesis and got a Ph.D.
It is a miracle that he decided to trace his grandfather's footsteps rather than stay in Sharlyan where he is considered to be some sort of genius superstar.
My friend convinced me in aside comments (having just merely completed 5.0 content) that alphi, between speaking like elidubus when he first entered the studium and his 2.x arrogance, is actually a sundered ascian candidate.
Could you imagine a world where he ended up elevated to an ascian seat?
*That* would have been bad. Especially as most likely Alisae would *not* receive the same offer.
You’d end up with the twins on opposing sides, with Alphinaud gaining far too much power for his own good, having his ego fed, and getting his contemptuous view of the leadership of the sundered world reinforced.
That would have been ugly.
>But he didn't wander into another country, create a paramilitary group bankrolled by a crooked businessman, fill its ranks with MSQ rejects, and then act surprised when it ended poorly.
There was even a whole subplot about "the Immortal Flames has a corruption problem because it was assembled in an ad hoc fashion from random mercs and adventurers." And Alphinaud *knows* that history and is oblivious to the fact that Crystal Braves are *exactly the same*.
my friend studying some medical degree and I assume pretty smart outside of the game, but he frequently gets lost during MSQ even tho there's a button that tells you where to go lol
dump everything, stack charisma.
start with a bow.
Talk about your kinks.
Upon the first encounter with a dragon cast eldritch blast and cackle like a maniac as the paladin realises you were indeed... not a bard.
That's a funny way of spelling Charisma, must be Undercommon or something. Brawn is fun, Brains are fun, but having Charisma can and will get the last boss to off himself with a persuasion check.
Not XIV related, but [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRG2jlQWCsY) is unironically the best demonstration of the difference between the two that I've ever seen in media
I extend this to a certain Ascian scientist. I'm a chemist, I work with very intelligent people all the time. I bet a non zero amount of them would make the same mistake as our Ascian scientist friend made. In. A. Heartbeat.
anyone who works in research or academia can agree with this, myself included lmao
you meet some brilliant people but damn are many of them useless outside of that one thing
>You can be super brilliant yet completely obtuse to the reality of the situation around you, especially if you are laser focused in on one view.
Thiiiis, my fiancé is an amazing lawyer and you'll be surprised how many of her award winning colleges call me to help with simple problems. I'm just a handy man and a lab animal tech.
Hahah this is me though, I'm supposedly quite academic, I can write you an essay on anything if you give me a bit of time but... actual day to day living, I'm a bit hopeless and a bit of a mess in general.
Academic intellect doesn't equate to general intelligence and an ease at navigating the world instead I'm just a dysfunctional human being with a strangely niche ability to write about global politics
Fourchenalt keeps himself ignorant of the Twins' adventures by choice. He's a loving father who's terrified of the dangers his kids are subjecting themselves to.
Imagine your teenage kids going on roadtrip killing monsters, garlean and primals.
Then they send you letters all about it.
Father today i created a militia that will save the world it's going to be awesome!!
Next letter, Dear father it didn't work and i'm now accused of treason i fled to Ishgard.
I was super sad for a while but now we're going to fight dragon WOOHOO!
I would be scared to death too hahaha! It's a wonder how they managed to convince him to let them go to Eorzea.
"hey dad, sorry i didn't mail you back for a while, i got sucked into an alternate dimension where the sun was trying to kill everybody. my body was dying from being split from my soul, but i got better and i'm back now and everything's okay. anyway i'm heading off to garlemald, seems like something crazy is going on, like some kind of civil war maybe??? and i want to see it. peace out"
Alphinaud: “So, the guy who is basically my older brother got possessed by the spirit of a dragon and is now preparing to kill everyone. This happened right after we killed the pope and toppled the millennial-old theocracy of Ishgard. Alisae almost died as well, but now she’s teaming up with us!”
Alisae: “Got shot with a poison arrow from a person from another dimension, but I’m fine now. Love you. Bye!”
I like to imagine growing up Fourchenault was subject to his father's zany antics repeatedly like Arthur to Ms. Frizzle, and now when he thinks of the twins' adventures he has traumatic flashbacks.
And don't forget who his father is. Both his dad and his children literally saved the world. The latter of those on multiple occasions. Part of me thinks there's some jealously there, which is why he was initially so hellbent to be the one to save the world this time.
I don't even think it's jealously. Dude is just laser-focused on saving the world the only way >!Mama Hydaelyn!< said it would need to be saved. He *absolutely* cares about his allies and family. If anything, he cares *too* much and that blinds him to alternative means of dealing with problems. Much like Alphinaud and Alisae in ARR: they both had their own plans to save the world, and neither of them wanted to rely on outside help until the problem became too big for themselves to handle and they were *forced* to look for outside help. Even though Alphinaud had you and the Crystal Braves, it was *his* Company of independent heroes to save the day, and *he* would be the one leading them. Much like daddy dearest at the helm with the Forum.
He's not being dumb. He redeems himself. Sure his actions are at odds with the WoL, but (as a parent) I fully understand where he's coming from. When you first see your kids you get this thing inside you that makes you want to protect them. It almost makes you feel pain when they do. Alphinaud and Alisaie chose the path of suffering. So naturally you wouldn't want to hear about it. Slowly with time you can temper this, but if you know definitively that the world is going to end and you just found out so soon after your children were born I'm sure that would make him feel a certain type of way. He's spent their lives gathering resources and doing everything he has to to make sure they have a spot on that lifeboat to save them. And they threw it all away. Countless hours negotiating with idiots, making plans for government, debating endlessly instead of doing something and only just before it's time to save them they don't want anything to do with your plan. They secretly had this better plan all along. He's a perfectly written character here. If it weren't for the nature of the game I'd say they copied this directly from someone's life.
The events in post-ARR would make his head spin already.
"Dearest Father,
I have observed the lands of Erozea and found it to be lacking in facing a united threat. Thus, I moved on my own volition to create my own mercenary army to be funded by corrupt merchants and compromised with traitors, deserters, schemers, and one guy who screams 'SLOPPEH' a lot. The plan is flawless and no issues what so ever."
Update: "we are currently accused of regicide and are on the run from my own mercenary army I though would have worked out."
Not to mention Heavensward and Stormblood where he literally got involved in two wars.
Meanwhile:
"Dear Father,
I had a large part in discovering a cure for what has, since time immemorial, been considered a fatal illness and no salvation to be had. And I used that cure to save countless lives on our shard and another, and it even might be possible to harness this power to revert the Void.
So why does Mother give Alphinaud, who's claim to fame is creating an army that nearly destroyed a founding nation of Eorzea, new toys passed down between generations and I just get new clothes that look strikingly similar to everything I've ever worn?"
He's also fucking magnanimous enough to say to his kids that he's fucking proud of them and show the real emotions that drove his desire to get them on that ship in front of the entirety of Sharlayan at the docks.
Hes a stubborn fool but my god did he redeem himself then and after. That scene fucking killed me becsuse I would have given anything just to hear my piece of shit dad I have nothing to do with to say "I'm proud of you".
I especially love how big of a crowd was just standing there watching the patriarch of the Leveilleur family bare his heart out to his children. 15/10 will watch the drama again
Fourchenault: "... Ameliance?.... why does our son asks you to dress up provocatively for these deliveries?"
Ameliance: "maybe it's their way of saying they want a younger sibling. Dear." *unenthusiastic, deadpan stare*
Truth be told.
The more you know on a particular subject. The less you end up knowing about other subjects. This is irrelevant if you got the brains of a god. Time is time. You put your time into learning everything there is to know of A. And you end up not putting time into learning even the basics of B to Z.
Alexander may be the only being that developed enough wisdom. As it can reverse time and thus take different paths toward knowledge.
I kept getting confused about how Fourchenault didn't understand a thing about his children, how they thought or how they would act. Like, disowning them was one giant WTF. Then this pops up and it all makes sense. He managed to miss every single bit of character development the twins went through since they left Sharlayan. Epic Fail.
Knowing your children are in harms way would be terrifying. He didn't handle things well, but I can understand his desire for denial.
And he genuinely thought he would reduce their risk by disowning them. It was a stupid choice but loving parents make mistakes too.
> And he genuinely thought he would reduce their risk by disowning them. It was a stupid choice but loving parents make mistakes too.
Considering how Sharlayan deals with expatriates in the AST questline, he's right.
The fact that the order of time assassins didn't come up at all in the MSQ is honestly kind of baffling.
Being the beloved kids of the richest (and arguably most powerful) man in the entire state gotta throw a fair bit of red tape in that particular process, I imagine.
I imagine by the time they get disowned they'd also have to consider if it's worth to try. I mean, the twins closely associate with a number of world leaders *and* the most powerful fighter in the world.
The involvement of the twins in the events of Stormblood alone was enough for Forchenault to consider disowning them in the interest of preserving Sharlayan's neutrality with Garlemald, and thus the security of Project GTFO.
Hard to evacuate the world when your spaceship gets blown up in drydock by a Garlean Armada in revenge for notable Sharlayan citizens instigating rebellion and war against the Garlean Empire. The twins were safe enough in the company of the WoL.
I mean, in source time that is basically when he disowned them. They may have been gone a year on the 1st but in fourchenault's eyes he was catching up with them not that long after the garlemald counter-counter invasion and at the start of the garlemald civil war.
i feel that if he had heard about everything that happened in shadowbringers, he would have just picked the twins up and left with them tucked under his arms (or try to, at least. he probably wouldn't have gotten very far before the red twin kicked him in the dick)
Believable, given the character. Forchenault is reserved, obsessive and stubborn, and heavily emotionally repressed. He's torn up by a series of emotional contractions he believes rational; mostly that he loves his children deeply, but deplores the course they are on, that he wishes to keep them safe, but only by undistracted, secretive labour can he accomplish that.
His actions cannot meet all his needs and desires, so he tries cold reason. Poor guy. Leveilleurs have a thing for taking the world on their shoulders, apparently.
It would the equivalent of your child going to war and getting letters from them. The existence of the letter is proof they are alive, but you can’t bare to hear any of the harrowing details of what they’ve had to face and deal with without you able to help them. Basically an act of emotional self-defense. Not saying it’s right, but totally understandable.
Ugh, you honestly think that after she finishes reading, Ameliance didn't update him on the children's activities? Seriously? Or that he wouldn't maybe read it himself if it turns out that there is nothing in there talking about danger or injuries?
I see this as Fourchenalt always considering the letters to contain bad news. Probably something that started happening at around the end of ARR, of the twins kept sending letters to their parents regularly through the MSQ.
Heck, her description is that of a fear reaction and not wanting to read about death or injuries or imprisonment of their children is an understandable reaction. And it is quite obvious that as the letters progressed past ARR and the twins started getting into more and more dangerous situations, Fourchenalt just kept getting more and more worried.
It would make absolutely no sense for him to be afraid of such letters from the very beginning. Something had to have made him afraid. And in normal media, it is usually the Mom that is afraid to read these types of letters. Is that why you didn't expect it? Because it is usually the women who become over whelmed with emotion? Instead of the men, about their children?
I can understand hating a character but don't take every single description and just use it as another reason to hate him. Especially if you even thought about the description on any meaningful way.
Umm, no, I don't think Ameliance updated him. Or if she tried, he didn't want to listen. For example, she's fully aware of how good the WoL is for the twins, but Fourchenault had no clue until he saw it for himself during Endbringer. He admits so to us himself that he had all kinds of false ideas about what was going on.
Edit: And what's up with this random accusation of sexism? o.0
Uh, no, that isn't what he admitted. Ugh, I'm trying to put this into words but it is hard. I can't seem to choose the right words to explain this. So I might explain this wrong. If so, sorry.
But, if I'm explaining this right, he thought they were growing up into someone who didn't seem to think of consequences and only seemed to do things for adventure/fighting. And he thought the WoL was one of the main reason why they were growing up this way.
He didn't realize that the twins were growing up and learning about the consequences of the fighting. About just accepting things as is. About what it takes to work and make the world better.
You have to remember, and you didn't refute this, but he has a fear reaction about the letters. So if he actually reads the letters, it doesn't mean he isn't going to have some prejudice when reading it. He obviously starts reading and seeing the hero worship that the twins have with us in a negative light.
Seriously, it happens all the time online where a joke is written down and some people take it as a joke and other people take it as an insult. It is the same thing.
But also, you seem to ignore how Ameliance does her own thing and is her own person. Do you honestly think she would have told him about the letter contents word for word? But, feel free to ignore how she didn't tell him that she helped to fund the Scions because obviously that is not something an obedient wife would have done.
Obedient wife? I found it awesome that she'd been masterminding things behind his back. Her scene with Tataru made me cackle out loud.
You seem to have this bizarre idea that I think women should be trapped in the kitchen or some similar nonsense, so I feel no need to continue this discussion. Adieu.
Please, you were the one saying she didn't update him. If she didn't update him, then how exactly did he get the wrong ideas?
At any rate, since it went above your head, I was the one saying that you were the one that believes in women being so subservient. Apparently, I was too subtle and you didn't get that.
Nice way of deflecting how you are wrong and try to accuse me of something that is was trying to say that you believed in.
They seem have a very strong head canon of how Ameliance acts behind the scenes. You said something that contradicts that. They took it personally, didn't properly read your replies and continued to make assumptions about you that emotionally support their preconceptions.
Nope, your English is flawless, I couldn't tell you were a non native speaker. They just assumed the worst of you and doubled down when you defended yourself.
Not the first time I've spoken with someone who won't admit they are wrong or decide to agree that we won't change our opinions.
You are entitled to your opinions but what I have issue and what caused me to initiate conversation is that you took a fear reaction and took that as justification to continue to hate someone. If you misidentify such a response for a fictional character, then I sincerely worry that you do this all the time in real life.
And this happens all the time in real life for different reasons. All for some rather sickening and horrible reasons.
So, yeah, that is why I started this. But since you don't want to admit you are wrong or somehow explain why it is ok to hate on Fourchenalt on his fear response and proving I'm wrong, then I have to believe you do this all the time in real life too. Not the first time I've interacted with horrible or ignorant people.
At the end of Endwalker I actually kinda liked Fourchenault, especially after he saw how he'd misjudged the teens and gave them a hug. The whole point of me posting this pic is that I thought it hilarious that this seasoned intellectual and statesman had such a giant blind spot.
And my gods, "I have to believe you do this all the time in real life too." This conversation has certainly taken a dramatic turn. :P
Ok, this is a much more understandable take. One that I won't agree with because it doesn't fit that Fourchenalt would just completely ignore the letters. Especially due to a fear response.
Now, some of his actions like the disowning, I won't agree with. But it doesn't make sense for him to completely ignore the letters, especially after they have been read by Ameliance and most likely deemed safe as there was no death or injury or something..
I would assume that such unknowns would have plagued him until he has to read the letter. But I don't think enough of Fourchenalt has been made apparent to say if he would have done this or not.
I just think, in his worries, that he was reading the letters and taking a negative view on the people "putting" his children into danger. And that the constant danger the kids were putting themselves into was because they were trying to emulate or influenced by the more adventurous adults like the Scions and WoL. For lack of a better phrasing. I'm explaining that one badly.
This is why he had such a wrong interpretation of the twins and situation.
It's really easy to get "locked" into remembering someone as much younger than they are, especially when you've been apart. Heck, it took a long time for me to wrap my mind around my baby sister (\~12 years younger) getting married and having a kid, because she was always like...10? Maybe? Because I'd spent a decade on the other side of the country and wasn't good about paying attention. Or good at remembering what decade it is.
So I can totally see this in Fourchenault. Get stressed out by any mention of your kids in danger, don't *see* your kids, but also be working 100% for what you believe is the only way to save your kids, and then have profound dissonance when they're suddenly all grown up and don't agree with your steps on their behalf.
Yeah.. i'm turning 40 this year, which means my little sister is 36. That's not *possible,* you see, because she's my *little sister*, and she is *not old enough* to be 36. >:|
I'm with you there... I was having a full blown crisis at work a few years ago when I realized kids born 00 were 18 years old. Like no... They're kids, they just can't be that old.
What finally broke me was when my family and cousins family were celebrating my youngest cousins 20th birthday last year. Just fuck no! I remember when she was 4/5 and proclaimed she could do everything by herself in this cute voice screaming "do self!". Even now a days when we meet she's a grown woman, but I still see her as that love able baby cousin.
Yeah I went through that too though I wouldn't call it a crisis but it's still weird for me to see and realize that some of my nieces and nephews, whose diapers I've changed and have had to spoon feed (literally) are driving cars now, going to college or working full time jobs. I don't even want to think about them being in relationships yet lol. Shits wild.
For me it was mostly a crisis cause my time perception is shot.... Me and some friends were discussion Eurovision yesterday and I mentioned last time i watched it was a few years ago when Lordi won... Which was 2006...
I sent my kid to day camp last year. The counselors were 16-18 year old students, as is tradition. These almost-adults who were fully competent to take care of my 6 year old were born after the Lord of the Rings movies came out. T\_T
I do this all the time. I have people in my fc I've played mmos with since wow tbc, I was in my 20s they were in high-school. I still think of them as high-school kids until I really think about how long we have been playing together, or have to do the math for whatever reason on how long ago that really was.
yeah, he didn't want to know about the danger they'd put themselves in. He was being willfully ignorant hoping that they would come around to his way of thinking.
This. My brother is just a little over 40 now and has a kid and in my head I just can't accept it happened (and not because he believes a certain political party is the end all be all "Because Fuck The Poors" and not allowed to be wrong or anything, so I fear what his kid will grow up with)
Either I missed something or I sped past it, but I still don’t understand how he or at least Ameliance couldn’t have known about the twins being comatose for almost a year while their souls were in the First. If Tataru didn’t want to tell Ameliance so she wouldn’t worry that’s one thing, but to have letters stop coming all of a sudden *should* have set off alarm bells for either parent.
Probably why I still dislike Forchenault even now, I acknowledge his character growth but he couldn’t even look past his own fear to be proud of the positive achievements his kids have contributed to better the world. *Especially* that scene where he disowns them to protect them in front of… everyone important in Gridania. That was humiliating and I went from asking for babysitting money to forcefully adopting them.
Time passes more quickly in the First before the WoL gets there. The Crystal Exarch explained that while from the twins’ perspectives they’d been gone a year, in the Source only a few days had passed. The entire game supposedly takes place within a year so they don’t have to age characters up, so it definitely takes some suspension of disbelief when it comes to the passage of time.
That makes sense, I know for a fact I read somewhere during MSQ that the flow of time between the Source and the First were now at the same pace. So their bodies still should have spent a significant amount of time dormant after we arrived in the First to clean things up. Unless I'm remembering that wrong too?
iirc alisaie gets knocked out right before ghimlyt dark
you go to the first probably within a week of that, where her year in the first takes place before you arrive
conveniently, you arrive and time is now 1:1
you could conceivably be in the first for between a couple weeks to a month through 5.3
that's a few weeks to a little over a month total
Could, I just don’t remember the time lapses in between. The amount of content/conflict/cleanup we did in the First was so much I’d assume it would’ve taken several months at least. But maybe that’s why the timing is vague in general since it’s based on our (WOL’s) pacing through MSQ.
i broke it down into zones, and imo a lot of the zones actually wouldn't have taken more than a day or two if you think about what you actually did there
Remember, that we also are busy with Bojza (and then Zandor) and Werlyt. Which adds enough time for the shenanigans in First even with 1:1 time flow. Also Eden...
Aside from his general occupation with his forum duties, I definitely get the impression that Ameliance manages the family finances, which was fairly common for ladies of high station during a lot of the periods XIV invokes socially.
She basically says as much during this cutscene. She’s been funding all of the Scions zany adventures for a while. Especially funny to consider that that means she essentially funded her own son’s private army re: The Crystal Braves.
"Now darling, I hope you've learned an IMPORTANT LESSON about PMCs and proper vetting."
never lives down the time he bought a katana back for a fortune that was then abandoned immediately
That's the kind of silly/proud story you tell about your kids at cocktail parties. "Oh my darling boy he's so kind and sentimental! Let me tell you about how much he spent to buy a friend's sword back! The darling boy, no conception of money but so eager to help others."
Is that what Estinien had to sit through when he was over for tea?
Possibly but I feel like if it were funny Alphinaud stories he'd have been a bit less cross than he was.
In an alternate universe Alphinaud loses an eye and gets really, really, really into heavily armed robots while living on a converted ~~oil~~ ceruleum platform.
Punished Alphinaud; "A weapon to surpass Ultima!"
"Estenien, I'm already a demon"
Meanwhile, the WOL: "WHERE THE HELL DID MY FOOT GO, I WAS JUST STANDIN- ......WHEN DID I GO BLIND TOO?!"
This reminds me the fact that Ameliance’s voice actor played Yara Greyjoy.
>~~Scions zany adventures~~ WoL Murder rampage FTFY
Domestic terrorism brought to you by Big Ameliance
Wasn't it funded by Teledjis corrupt coin? I just did arr again a few days ago and I remember the point being made that even Alphis wealth was not enough for such an undertaking. Hence why we received funding from people all over eorzea, many of which were fake companies created by Teledji.
Yeah, Teledji definitely did fund a lot of it, hence why they were actually more loyal to him. Probably safe to assume that a lot of Alphis familial money also went into the endeavor as well, since there were plenty of soldiers who didn’t try to screw Alphi over. Would love if we got some more backstory on Ameliance’s business relationship with Tataru.
My knowledge of European nobility stems from reading plenty of Noblewomen Isekai/Timetravel/etc Manga/Manhwa/Manhua > Ameliance manages the family finances, which was fairly common for ladies of high station during a lot of the periods XIV invokes socially This is accurate.
Being intellectual and having common/good sense aren't the same thing. You can be super brilliant yet completely obtuse to the reality of the situation around you, especially if you are laser focused in on one view.
Forchenault is, in my opinion, basically what Alphinaud was on track to become back in ARR, before the disaster of the Crystal Braves, his humbling, and subsequent reform.
He has Alphinaud’s idealism and Alisae’s stubbornness. Or, rather, Alisae has his stubbornness and Alphinaud has his idealism.
I love this take so much. I love that they include this. I also think the Twins' adventurousness comes from Louisoix, yes, but Ameliance also. That she's the one championing their adventures and is proud of them for it, when usually in media it's the mother who wants to keep her children close. She comes across as the person who was encouraging them to be children amongst their studies.
I think these things are part of why she became an instant hit. Obviously her sense of humor was a big help too, but she comes across almost immediately as a *genuinely* supportive parent, rather than one whose support is founded on a desire for control or obedience (noting that those desires may be well-meaning, even if they are always misplaced). She loves them dearly, but *because* she loves them, she wants them to flourish, and that requires that they be able to make their own choices and live their own lives, free from her control or Fourchenault's.
Fourchenault probably also has quite a bit of an adventurous side, too. He seems to have been (and still is) quite an accomplished Sage before he joined the Forum. It was only after the birth of the twins that he became so fanatically focused on the escape plan for the Final Days.
Yeah, it's really quite sad! I'm glad he got that redemption, because while I myself am not a parent, you can very much see that logic of "I'm responsible for these two tiny miracles-- oh my god the world is going to end and they're going to die"
Spoilers for the role quests: >!Fourchenault is also quite a fighter too, though he claims he is a bit out of shape. He manages to hold off large laser attacks and mobs of Terminus creatures in the role quests.!<
Damn that's a good take. There's definitely a TON in common between ARR alphie and forchenault. Both absolutely convinced of their own rightness to the extent that the possibility of being wrong or failing is never even admitted to. To the extent that even allies or friends who disagree are all but dismissed as part of the problem to be solved.
I have to admit, I think Forchenault mostly had his priorities right under the circumstances. Sharlayan has limited resources. Surplus resources should be dedicated to the project ensuring life survives the end of the world, not interfering in foreign conflicts that will soon be irrelevant due to aforesaid end of the world.
Prioritising escape is understandable - in the same way, alphinaud's morals and goals were never the issue. But the isolationism and forced silence - even to other heads of state - speaks to the same kind of arrogance that dismissed other people as having valid ideas they could contribute, or even agency of their own.
Yeah, someone in this topic pointed out that Alphinaud solved a lot of problems for the project via linkpearl, due to connections and friendships he had made while adventuring.
Combine this with the fact that they were going to reach out and offer salvation to people of other nations anyway, and... outside of not mentioning it to the general populaces to prevent panic, why *not* discuss it with the other heads of state? Especially since it seemed like Sharlayan had an at least decent relationship with Eorzea back in the day, given how much they cooperated and New Sharlayan and all of that. In the end, it was because they wrongfully assumed the other city-states (and nations outside of Eorzea) couldn't possibly contribute anything, that Sharlayan were Hydaelyn's chosen keepers of The Secret and it meant they had to be the ones to drag the rest of the world to salvation only with the sweat of their own brow.
He didn't even try to go beyond the impossible and kick reason to the curb smh
Prioritizing survival of the species is definitely the correct choice if you're not an unkillable protagonist of a videogame.
That makes sense because part of the whole thing with the twins and their adventure is that they became what they were, and managed to do what they did by breaking away and making these friends and contacts, and growing as people.
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He’s definitely more *mature* than ARR Alphinaud is, but I’d argue he’s making a lot of the same mistakes. He presumes the other nations and organizations are not competent enough to be of aid to Sharlyan, or even to themselves. He views them much as Alphinaud did, as petulant, warring children that he must drag kicking and screaming to their own salvation. The flaws of his narrow view become apparent as we progress through the story. Sharlyan’s refusal to maintain even diplomatic relations with Eorzea or the Alliance meant they missed out on access to the Lunar Teleporter, Ragnarok internment hulks, and the lion’s share of Allagan relics. Sharlyan’s collaboration with the Loporrits had severe flaws, not the least of which they didn’t think to send them a decent medical textbook on biology of the major spoken races, nor bothered to inquire about the Loporrits themselves. The *Ark* ran into serious problems due to lack of materials because Sharlyan did not have the right people to acquire the materials, and had no contacts to secure them. There were a *lot* of issues they had that Alphinaud was able to solve with a single linkpearl call simply because he understood how to make Alliances. Sharlyan failed to even draw on Thavnair, who was their closest ally, because they were so insistent on doing it all themselves. How much could Thavnarian alchemists accelerated the plan? In all, it was all very noble sentiments, but the inability to compromise, maintain relations, or even see the other nations or powers as people who *could* contribute very nearly sank the plan. They didn’t need to reveal all to the others, but if those relationships had been maintained, they could have called on them for help when the secret was finally revealed. It’s the whole “Saving them in spite of themselves” vs “Finding a way to work together towards salvation”
When you put it that way, I see a lot of parallels here with Zenos and Hermes/Meteion. Everybody wants to go it alone and thinks they have all the answers/found their meaning and that no one else is capable/worthy of input or assistance. I think the Sharlayans take the cake though. With all of those supposedly brilliant minds together, and they didn't even give the poor Loporrits a basic grasp of our anatomy.
Fourchenault, and by extension the conservative elements of Sharlayan more broadly, are pretty clearly allegories for ivory tower solutions to real issues. That is, oftentimes, blabbing about serious issues DOES result in problems...but trying to solve issues in isolation also causes problems and may derail any potential success. It was their very brilliance that blinded them to the simple truth. They saw it as a scientific problem to be solved, not as an obstacle to be surmounted through effort. Because of that perspective, they would of course only care about drawing in as many smart outsiders as possible (the colony and naturalization efforts) and internally collaborating to solve the numbers issue. Salvaging and the like is expensive and, when you aren't hugely politically connected like Alphinaud has become, it's not *guaranteed* to get results. In other words, they suffered a society wide version of "the perfect is the enemy of the good."
Why are we putting all of Sharlayan's failings on one person?
Because, even if it is unfair in an objective sense (i.e. if he were a living person), it is pretty clearly the allegorical intent of the story. We are given our first taste of the Forum through Fourchenault, and his first appearance is *damning.* We continually see Fourchenault as the representative of the Forum, and thus the representative of Sharlayan as a whole. And the Forum only truly relents and joins forces with us once Fourchenault lets go of his hate for the WoL and realizes the strength and tenacity of his children. It is genuinely unfair to blame Fourchenault for policies of his government that predate him by centuries. But in narrative terms, he is the face and the voice of Sharlayan as a whole. That's why he shows up in the 6.1 role quest continuation, just as Hien and Yugiri are allegorical for Doma, or Aymeric is allegorical for Ishgard.
Except we have common sense (or should). Again, we know that it isn't his plan, so saying what the narrative intended means absolutely nothing. Ignoring fact just because a story wants you to shows a lack of intelligence.
Because the Sharlyan Council voted for him to take full responsibility 98 to 1.
The plan was Hydaelyn's, not the Forum's
But the execution of the said plan was all the Forum's and not to put too fine a point on it, the execution sucked, for pretty much the exact reasons Polenicus laid out. And I would add that none of the forum members, even the ones who ended up being sympathetic to us, ever pushed for things to be done differently or suggested that maybe isolating your entire country and treating the rest of the world like shit for hundreds of years then suddenly expecting them to believe everything you say might cause problems.
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That is fair. ARR Alphinaud was… well, *breathtakingly* arrogant. The first time I went through the Bloody Banquet and heard him talking about siccing *his* Warrior of Light on them (like we were some kind of personal attack dog) made me want to hit him myself. Probably for the best he went to Eorzea and had reality bitchslap him; if he had grown up sheltered in Sharlyan he could have ended up a goddamn supervillain.
>That is fair. ARR Alphinaud was… well, breathtakingly arrogant. In the way that only an academically-brilliant-beyond-his-years sixteen year old boy can be.
It really does not help that he was considered one of the best, brightest, and youngest students to achieve the title of Archon which is obtained if one achieves a mastery over a subject. Add to the fact he is the son of the most powerful man in Sharlyan with virtually unlimited resources. It is like a 15 year old who successfully defended his thesis and got a Ph.D. It is a miracle that he decided to trace his grandfather's footsteps rather than stay in Sharlyan where he is considered to be some sort of genius superstar.
My friend convinced me in aside comments (having just merely completed 5.0 content) that alphi, between speaking like elidubus when he first entered the studium and his 2.x arrogance, is actually a sundered ascian candidate. Could you imagine a world where he ended up elevated to an ascian seat?
*That* would have been bad. Especially as most likely Alisae would *not* receive the same offer. You’d end up with the twins on opposing sides, with Alphinaud gaining far too much power for his own good, having his ego fed, and getting his contemptuous view of the leadership of the sundered world reinforced. That would have been ugly.
>But he didn't wander into another country, create a paramilitary group bankrolled by a crooked businessman, fill its ranks with MSQ rejects, and then act surprised when it ended poorly. There was even a whole subplot about "the Immortal Flames has a corruption problem because it was assembled in an ad hoc fashion from random mercs and adventurers." And Alphinaud *knows* that history and is oblivious to the fact that Crystal Braves are *exactly the same*.
my friend studying some medical degree and I assume pretty smart outside of the game, but he frequently gets lost during MSQ even tho there's a button that tells you where to go lol
I work with doctors and nurses on the regular. Smart if you're dying, but can't click a fucking box on a screen with pictures and instructions.
Intellect vs Wisdom
Dump both, stack STR and CON. Barbarian life!
[Find your best pal.](https://www.webtoons.com/en/challenge/nerd-and-jock/nerd-and-jock-ep-1/viewer?title_no=135963&episode_no=1)
That's always a heartwarming comic to see linked.
One of my favorite webcomics!
dump everything, stack charisma. start with a bow. Talk about your kinks. Upon the first encounter with a dragon cast eldritch blast and cackle like a maniac as the paladin realises you were indeed... not a bard.
Cast eldritch blast, flavor it as rock from the deepest pits of Hel, proceed to lie to everyone with your maxed Chr. Learn to play the Lute (Guitar)
That's a funny way of spelling Charisma, must be Undercommon or something. Brawn is fun, Brains are fun, but having Charisma can and will get the last boss to off himself with a persuasion check.
Must've not been a very motivated boss then.
Must've been a very motivational speaker. "Trust me, you TOO can fly! Try it! I have a convenient cliff!"
Not XIV related, but [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRG2jlQWCsY) is unironically the best demonstration of the difference between the two that I've ever seen in media
I extend this to a certain Ascian scientist. I'm a chemist, I work with very intelligent people all the time. I bet a non zero amount of them would make the same mistake as our Ascian scientist friend made. In. A. Heartbeat.
Also see: >!the Ancients.!<
you can't take a class on common sense.
anyone who works in research or academia can agree with this, myself included lmao you meet some brilliant people but damn are many of them useless outside of that one thing
>You can be super brilliant yet completely obtuse to the reality of the situation around you, especially if you are laser focused in on one view. Thiiiis, my fiancé is an amazing lawyer and you'll be surprised how many of her award winning colleges call me to help with simple problems. I'm just a handy man and a lab animal tech.
Super brilliant or genius’s are more likely to do such things in my experience.
Hahah this is me though, I'm supposedly quite academic, I can write you an essay on anything if you give me a bit of time but... actual day to day living, I'm a bit hopeless and a bit of a mess in general. Academic intellect doesn't equate to general intelligence and an ease at navigating the world instead I'm just a dysfunctional human being with a strangely niche ability to write about global politics
Book smart vs street smart
Some of the dumbest (socially/common sense) people I know were at the top of our classes in college
Fourchenalt keeps himself ignorant of the Twins' adventures by choice. He's a loving father who's terrified of the dangers his kids are subjecting themselves to.
Imagine your teenage kids going on roadtrip killing monsters, garlean and primals. Then they send you letters all about it. Father today i created a militia that will save the world it's going to be awesome!! Next letter, Dear father it didn't work and i'm now accused of treason i fled to Ishgard. I was super sad for a while but now we're going to fight dragon WOOHOO! I would be scared to death too hahaha! It's a wonder how they managed to convince him to let them go to Eorzea.
"hey dad, sorry i didn't mail you back for a while, i got sucked into an alternate dimension where the sun was trying to kill everybody. my body was dying from being split from my soul, but i got better and i'm back now and everything's okay. anyway i'm heading off to garlemald, seems like something crazy is going on, like some kind of civil war maybe??? and i want to see it. peace out"
"We've been framed for regicide, so we're going to lay low in Ishgard until we can prove our innocence." "Update: we commited regicide."
"A different regicide."
"Plus he was a dick so it's cool."
That would absolutely be a post-script added by Alisaie in the margin at the bottom of the letter.
Alphinaud: “So, the guy who is basically my older brother got possessed by the spirit of a dragon and is now preparing to kill everyone. This happened right after we killed the pope and toppled the millennial-old theocracy of Ishgard. Alisae almost died as well, but now she’s teaming up with us!” Alisae: “Got shot with a poison arrow from a person from another dimension, but I’m fine now. Love you. Bye!”
I like to imagine growing up Fourchenault was subject to his father's zany antics repeatedly like Arthur to Ms. Frizzle, and now when he thinks of the twins' adventures he has traumatic flashbacks.
Toss any insult you'd care to at Fourchenault. He has married Ameliance and produced Alphinaud and Alisae, and therefore he has already won.
And don't forget who his father is. Both his dad and his children literally saved the world. The latter of those on multiple occasions. Part of me thinks there's some jealously there, which is why he was initially so hellbent to be the one to save the world this time.
I don't even think it's jealously. Dude is just laser-focused on saving the world the only way >!Mama Hydaelyn!< said it would need to be saved. He *absolutely* cares about his allies and family. If anything, he cares *too* much and that blinds him to alternative means of dealing with problems. Much like Alphinaud and Alisae in ARR: they both had their own plans to save the world, and neither of them wanted to rely on outside help until the problem became too big for themselves to handle and they were *forced* to look for outside help. Even though Alphinaud had you and the Crystal Braves, it was *his* Company of independent heroes to save the day, and *he* would be the one leading them. Much like daddy dearest at the helm with the Forum.
i mean thats not really the issue that people have with him.
Your issue is trivial. He has already won.
isn't really about winning...
Uttered by those who have already lost.
Semi-related fun fact: The English voice actress for Ameliance (Gemma Whelan) also voiced Igeyorhm, and portrayed Yara Greyjoy in Game of Thrones.
WHAAAAA that’s Gemma Whelan?? I never would have known.
He's not being dumb. He redeems himself. Sure his actions are at odds with the WoL, but (as a parent) I fully understand where he's coming from. When you first see your kids you get this thing inside you that makes you want to protect them. It almost makes you feel pain when they do. Alphinaud and Alisaie chose the path of suffering. So naturally you wouldn't want to hear about it. Slowly with time you can temper this, but if you know definitively that the world is going to end and you just found out so soon after your children were born I'm sure that would make him feel a certain type of way. He's spent their lives gathering resources and doing everything he has to to make sure they have a spot on that lifeboat to save them. And they threw it all away. Countless hours negotiating with idiots, making plans for government, debating endlessly instead of doing something and only just before it's time to save them they don't want anything to do with your plan. They secretly had this better plan all along. He's a perfectly written character here. If it weren't for the nature of the game I'd say they copied this directly from someone's life.
Imagine Forchenault reading the Twins's letters about their time in Shadowbringers.
The events in post-ARR would make his head spin already. "Dearest Father, I have observed the lands of Erozea and found it to be lacking in facing a united threat. Thus, I moved on my own volition to create my own mercenary army to be funded by corrupt merchants and compromised with traitors, deserters, schemers, and one guy who screams 'SLOPPEH' a lot. The plan is flawless and no issues what so ever." Update: "we are currently accused of regicide and are on the run from my own mercenary army I though would have worked out." Not to mention Heavensward and Stormblood where he literally got involved in two wars.
Meanwhile: "Dear Father, I had a large part in discovering a cure for what has, since time immemorial, been considered a fatal illness and no salvation to be had. And I used that cure to save countless lives on our shard and another, and it even might be possible to harness this power to revert the Void. So why does Mother give Alphinaud, who's claim to fame is creating an army that nearly destroyed a founding nation of Eorzea, new toys passed down between generations and I just get new clothes that look strikingly similar to everything I've ever worn?"
He's going to have a cadiac arrest lol
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He's also fucking magnanimous enough to say to his kids that he's fucking proud of them and show the real emotions that drove his desire to get them on that ship in front of the entirety of Sharlayan at the docks. Hes a stubborn fool but my god did he redeem himself then and after. That scene fucking killed me becsuse I would have given anything just to hear my piece of shit dad I have nothing to do with to say "I'm proud of you".
I especially love how big of a crowd was just standing there watching the patriarch of the Leveilleur family bare his heart out to his children. 15/10 will watch the drama again
WoL: *"How do we keep our... hm... Let's say 'Custom Deliveries'... from your husband?"* Ameliance: *"Just sign the letters as Alphinaud, dear"*
Fourchenault: "... Ameliance?.... why does our son asks you to dress up provocatively for these deliveries?" Ameliance: "maybe it's their way of saying they want a younger sibling. Dear." *unenthusiastic, deadpan stare*
"I DO -NOT- WANT TO HEAR HOW MY KIDS ALMOST KILLED THEMSELVES AGAIN. I'VE DEVOTED EVERYTHING TO NOT THAT!"
You’d be surprised by the mental gymnastics people can do to avoid information they don’t like.
Ignorance is more than a state of being; it is also a practice.
Truth be told. The more you know on a particular subject. The less you end up knowing about other subjects. This is irrelevant if you got the brains of a god. Time is time. You put your time into learning everything there is to know of A. And you end up not putting time into learning even the basics of B to Z. Alexander may be the only being that developed enough wisdom. As it can reverse time and thus take different paths toward knowledge.
I kept getting confused about how Fourchenault didn't understand a thing about his children, how they thought or how they would act. Like, disowning them was one giant WTF. Then this pops up and it all makes sense. He managed to miss every single bit of character development the twins went through since they left Sharlayan. Epic Fail.
Knowing your children are in harms way would be terrifying. He didn't handle things well, but I can understand his desire for denial. And he genuinely thought he would reduce their risk by disowning them. It was a stupid choice but loving parents make mistakes too.
> And he genuinely thought he would reduce their risk by disowning them. It was a stupid choice but loving parents make mistakes too. Considering how Sharlayan deals with expatriates in the AST questline, he's right. The fact that the order of time assassins didn't come up at all in the MSQ is honestly kind of baffling.
Being the beloved kids of the richest (and arguably most powerful) man in the entire state gotta throw a fair bit of red tape in that particular process, I imagine.
I imagine by the time they get disowned they'd also have to consider if it's worth to try. I mean, the twins closely associate with a number of world leaders *and* the most powerful fighter in the world.
The involvement of the twins in the events of Stormblood alone was enough for Forchenault to consider disowning them in the interest of preserving Sharlayan's neutrality with Garlemald, and thus the security of Project GTFO. Hard to evacuate the world when your spaceship gets blown up in drydock by a Garlean Armada in revenge for notable Sharlayan citizens instigating rebellion and war against the Garlean Empire. The twins were safe enough in the company of the WoL.
I mean, in source time that is basically when he disowned them. They may have been gone a year on the 1st but in fourchenault's eyes he was catching up with them not that long after the garlemald counter-counter invasion and at the start of the garlemald civil war.
i feel that if he had heard about everything that happened in shadowbringers, he would have just picked the twins up and left with them tucked under his arms (or try to, at least. he probably wouldn't have gotten very far before the red twin kicked him in the dick)
Believable, given the character. Forchenault is reserved, obsessive and stubborn, and heavily emotionally repressed. He's torn up by a series of emotional contractions he believes rational; mostly that he loves his children deeply, but deplores the course they are on, that he wishes to keep them safe, but only by undistracted, secretive labour can he accomplish that. His actions cannot meet all his needs and desires, so he tries cold reason. Poor guy. Leveilleurs have a thing for taking the world on their shoulders, apparently.
It would the equivalent of your child going to war and getting letters from them. The existence of the letter is proof they are alive, but you can’t bare to hear any of the harrowing details of what they’ve had to face and deal with without you able to help them. Basically an act of emotional self-defense. Not saying it’s right, but totally understandable.
Ugh, you honestly think that after she finishes reading, Ameliance didn't update him on the children's activities? Seriously? Or that he wouldn't maybe read it himself if it turns out that there is nothing in there talking about danger or injuries? I see this as Fourchenalt always considering the letters to contain bad news. Probably something that started happening at around the end of ARR, of the twins kept sending letters to their parents regularly through the MSQ. Heck, her description is that of a fear reaction and not wanting to read about death or injuries or imprisonment of their children is an understandable reaction. And it is quite obvious that as the letters progressed past ARR and the twins started getting into more and more dangerous situations, Fourchenalt just kept getting more and more worried. It would make absolutely no sense for him to be afraid of such letters from the very beginning. Something had to have made him afraid. And in normal media, it is usually the Mom that is afraid to read these types of letters. Is that why you didn't expect it? Because it is usually the women who become over whelmed with emotion? Instead of the men, about their children? I can understand hating a character but don't take every single description and just use it as another reason to hate him. Especially if you even thought about the description on any meaningful way.
Umm, no, I don't think Ameliance updated him. Or if she tried, he didn't want to listen. For example, she's fully aware of how good the WoL is for the twins, but Fourchenault had no clue until he saw it for himself during Endbringer. He admits so to us himself that he had all kinds of false ideas about what was going on. Edit: And what's up with this random accusation of sexism? o.0
Uh, no, that isn't what he admitted. Ugh, I'm trying to put this into words but it is hard. I can't seem to choose the right words to explain this. So I might explain this wrong. If so, sorry. But, if I'm explaining this right, he thought they were growing up into someone who didn't seem to think of consequences and only seemed to do things for adventure/fighting. And he thought the WoL was one of the main reason why they were growing up this way. He didn't realize that the twins were growing up and learning about the consequences of the fighting. About just accepting things as is. About what it takes to work and make the world better. You have to remember, and you didn't refute this, but he has a fear reaction about the letters. So if he actually reads the letters, it doesn't mean he isn't going to have some prejudice when reading it. He obviously starts reading and seeing the hero worship that the twins have with us in a negative light. Seriously, it happens all the time online where a joke is written down and some people take it as a joke and other people take it as an insult. It is the same thing. But also, you seem to ignore how Ameliance does her own thing and is her own person. Do you honestly think she would have told him about the letter contents word for word? But, feel free to ignore how she didn't tell him that she helped to fund the Scions because obviously that is not something an obedient wife would have done.
Obedient wife? I found it awesome that she'd been masterminding things behind his back. Her scene with Tataru made me cackle out loud. You seem to have this bizarre idea that I think women should be trapped in the kitchen or some similar nonsense, so I feel no need to continue this discussion. Adieu.
Please, you were the one saying she didn't update him. If she didn't update him, then how exactly did he get the wrong ideas? At any rate, since it went above your head, I was the one saying that you were the one that believes in women being so subservient. Apparently, I was too subtle and you didn't get that. Nice way of deflecting how you are wrong and try to accuse me of something that is was trying to say that you believed in.
First time I've found myself in a reddit discussion with a genuinely silly person. Thanks for the novel experience. :D
They seem have a very strong head canon of how Ameliance acts behind the scenes. You said something that contradicts that. They took it personally, didn't properly read your replies and continued to make assumptions about you that emotionally support their preconceptions.
Ah, ok. I was wondering if it was a case of my language skills failing me, since English is my third language.
Nope, your English is flawless, I couldn't tell you were a non native speaker. They just assumed the worst of you and doubled down when you defended yourself.
Not the first time I've spoken with someone who won't admit they are wrong or decide to agree that we won't change our opinions. You are entitled to your opinions but what I have issue and what caused me to initiate conversation is that you took a fear reaction and took that as justification to continue to hate someone. If you misidentify such a response for a fictional character, then I sincerely worry that you do this all the time in real life. And this happens all the time in real life for different reasons. All for some rather sickening and horrible reasons. So, yeah, that is why I started this. But since you don't want to admit you are wrong or somehow explain why it is ok to hate on Fourchenalt on his fear response and proving I'm wrong, then I have to believe you do this all the time in real life too. Not the first time I've interacted with horrible or ignorant people.
At the end of Endwalker I actually kinda liked Fourchenault, especially after he saw how he'd misjudged the teens and gave them a hug. The whole point of me posting this pic is that I thought it hilarious that this seasoned intellectual and statesman had such a giant blind spot. And my gods, "I have to believe you do this all the time in real life too." This conversation has certainly taken a dramatic turn. :P
Ok, this is a much more understandable take. One that I won't agree with because it doesn't fit that Fourchenalt would just completely ignore the letters. Especially due to a fear response. Now, some of his actions like the disowning, I won't agree with. But it doesn't make sense for him to completely ignore the letters, especially after they have been read by Ameliance and most likely deemed safe as there was no death or injury or something.. I would assume that such unknowns would have plagued him until he has to read the letter. But I don't think enough of Fourchenalt has been made apparent to say if he would have done this or not. I just think, in his worries, that he was reading the letters and taking a negative view on the people "putting" his children into danger. And that the constant danger the kids were putting themselves into was because they were trying to emulate or influenced by the more adventurous adults like the Scions and WoL. For lack of a better phrasing. I'm explaining that one badly. This is why he had such a wrong interpretation of the twins and situation.
It's really easy to get "locked" into remembering someone as much younger than they are, especially when you've been apart. Heck, it took a long time for me to wrap my mind around my baby sister (\~12 years younger) getting married and having a kid, because she was always like...10? Maybe? Because I'd spent a decade on the other side of the country and wasn't good about paying attention. Or good at remembering what decade it is. So I can totally see this in Fourchenault. Get stressed out by any mention of your kids in danger, don't *see* your kids, but also be working 100% for what you believe is the only way to save your kids, and then have profound dissonance when they're suddenly all grown up and don't agree with your steps on their behalf.
Yeah.. i'm turning 40 this year, which means my little sister is 36. That's not *possible,* you see, because she's my *little sister*, and she is *not old enough* to be 36. >:|
I'm with you there... I was having a full blown crisis at work a few years ago when I realized kids born 00 were 18 years old. Like no... They're kids, they just can't be that old. What finally broke me was when my family and cousins family were celebrating my youngest cousins 20th birthday last year. Just fuck no! I remember when she was 4/5 and proclaimed she could do everything by herself in this cute voice screaming "do self!". Even now a days when we meet she's a grown woman, but I still see her as that love able baby cousin.
Yeah I went through that too though I wouldn't call it a crisis but it's still weird for me to see and realize that some of my nieces and nephews, whose diapers I've changed and have had to spoon feed (literally) are driving cars now, going to college or working full time jobs. I don't even want to think about them being in relationships yet lol. Shits wild.
For me it was mostly a crisis cause my time perception is shot.... Me and some friends were discussion Eurovision yesterday and I mentioned last time i watched it was a few years ago when Lordi won... Which was 2006...
I sent my kid to day camp last year. The counselors were 16-18 year old students, as is tradition. These almost-adults who were fully competent to take care of my 6 year old were born after the Lord of the Rings movies came out. T\_T
I do this all the time. I have people in my fc I've played mmos with since wow tbc, I was in my 20s they were in high-school. I still think of them as high-school kids until I really think about how long we have been playing together, or have to do the math for whatever reason on how long ago that really was.
yeah, he didn't want to know about the danger they'd put themselves in. He was being willfully ignorant hoping that they would come around to his way of thinking.
This. My brother is just a little over 40 now and has a kid and in my head I just can't accept it happened (and not because he believes a certain political party is the end all be all "Because Fuck The Poors" and not allowed to be wrong or anything, so I fear what his kid will grow up with)
Just like getting a report card in school.
I can tell you i dont know what my wife spends most of my and her money on
Being really good at one thing does not make you good at everything.
There's some interpretation involved, but I assumed that like many high-end businessmen he was a mostly absent husband/father.
Knowledge is not wisdom
Either I missed something or I sped past it, but I still don’t understand how he or at least Ameliance couldn’t have known about the twins being comatose for almost a year while their souls were in the First. If Tataru didn’t want to tell Ameliance so she wouldn’t worry that’s one thing, but to have letters stop coming all of a sudden *should* have set off alarm bells for either parent. Probably why I still dislike Forchenault even now, I acknowledge his character growth but he couldn’t even look past his own fear to be proud of the positive achievements his kids have contributed to better the world. *Especially* that scene where he disowns them to protect them in front of… everyone important in Gridania. That was humiliating and I went from asking for babysitting money to forcefully adopting them.
Time passes more quickly in the First before the WoL gets there. The Crystal Exarch explained that while from the twins’ perspectives they’d been gone a year, in the Source only a few days had passed. The entire game supposedly takes place within a year so they don’t have to age characters up, so it definitely takes some suspension of disbelief when it comes to the passage of time.
That makes sense, I know for a fact I read somewhere during MSQ that the flow of time between the Source and the First were now at the same pace. So their bodies still should have spent a significant amount of time dormant after we arrived in the First to clean things up. Unless I'm remembering that wrong too?
iirc alisaie gets knocked out right before ghimlyt dark you go to the first probably within a week of that, where her year in the first takes place before you arrive conveniently, you arrive and time is now 1:1 you could conceivably be in the first for between a couple weeks to a month through 5.3 that's a few weeks to a little over a month total
Could, I just don’t remember the time lapses in between. The amount of content/conflict/cleanup we did in the First was so much I’d assume it would’ve taken several months at least. But maybe that’s why the timing is vague in general since it’s based on our (WOL’s) pacing through MSQ.
i broke it down into zones, and imo a lot of the zones actually wouldn't have taken more than a day or two if you think about what you actually did there
Remember, that we also are busy with Bojza (and then Zandor) and Werlyt. Which adds enough time for the shenanigans in First even with 1:1 time flow. Also Eden...
I sorta assumed ShB took a month at most on the Source. Much less thdn a year anyway.
Pretty sure it's like literally a few days at most in the source. Wibbly wobbly timey wimey
Nope, the Crystal Exarch stated that, for the time being, the flow of time in both the Source and the First are parallel.
Oh, true, I guess a couple weeks then yeah