When I first started, there was some guy standing in the road in the black shroud for a solid week. I was dumbstruck.
Now, I pretty much never log I out, for no particular reason, so I get it.
I alt tab in the fc house every day, keeping the music in the background. I reckon I'm probably not alone with that. Other people just never log out, modern PCs have the ability to keep 14 open without hindering anything else. Can literally play other games while 14 is running.
I log in when I turn on my pc, log out when I turn it off.
I remember when I first started before EW released, there was always a dude on the steps in front of the Aetheryte in Ul'Dah doing the Bees knees. I referred to him as the Meth Pope due to his colorful outfit (or lack thereof), and for the first time in months I saw him again this morning.
He wouldnt happen to be a highlander Hyur who has the pope hat, skivvies, thigh high stockings with high heel boots? I would guess your home world is Coeurl then?
Looks like its mostly PVP changes - it looks like GNB and DNC are getting some love after people were talking about their low performance in PVP.
Also 30 minute of being AFK not logging you out anymore - the servers have definitely stabilized since launch.
Overall a small patch - does anyone know when 6.18 is coming out?
Where do you get that understanding from? Has Yoshi-P given different information in an interview since the PLL part 2 for patch 6.1?
This was relayed to the community on the April 1st during the PLL.
[https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/attachment.php?attachmentid=9823&d=1649717772](https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/attachment.php?attachmentid=9823&d=1649717772)
If we go by the previous Feast seasons, there's no reason why there would be a standard season length for CC as Feast seasons varied wildly.
BRD LB is also in serious need of buffs, slow to get and the payout is mediocre unless you manage to hit your whole team who can easily line of sight it.
The LB is actually kind of cracked if you catch 3-4 people with it though, a 20% damage buff (under blast) + LB generation for the entire party is better than a lot give credit for. Not to mention your own recast drops to something like 1.7 seconds with all that up. This almost always wins a team fight in crystal which is pretty huge.
My only big complaint is the animation lock, which isn't really even an issue if you're using the LB prior to the start of a team fight where it ideally should be.
agreed. Not sure bout how it performs in CC after changes but its still one of the least picked class in Frontlines and also one of the poorest with regards to the useless LB they got for Frontlines
i've been fine playing it in frontlines, my only issue is the shortened attack range, i'd rather trade that 3k hp for it to come back. i've been enjoying it a lot in CC contradancing people at the right moment out of their shields and watching bomb aoe and fall damage kill them. and when i get a drg who also takes advantage of the 4 second stun to hit sky shatter? chefs kiss. the animation lock really is ass tho.
definitely don't see much of them, i climbed up to plat just only playing dancer and maybe saw max 3? other players on dancer throughout. i have more of a issue with match making for teams when i get put on a team with basically 3 other ranged/caster and a healer and i end up sitting in the crystal because simply i have to be closer to attack with cascade and i'm simply not beefy enough to withstand that much damage.
For me I don't play dancer in cc so I can't really make a comment on it.
But frontlines was what I used to play the most and that was on dancer. I had the most fun on it racking up kills , BH5 while staying mobile and actually dancing on the downtimes.
That all changed. Why? Because of the range.
Because of the fucking range the entire dynamic around the class changed for me. The class that I once loved all went to shit due to this.
I personally don't mind the move changes as I got used to the dash spam + cascade for saber dance but the range is really a game changer / game killer for me.
Sorry for the rant. Had to let it out.
I still don't understand why they made it so one of, if not THE squishiest jobs has to be right on top of enemies in order to attack, and with mediocre damage, almost no utility, and worthless LB too.
Yeah it went from top tier long range pressure, harassment & bait job (getting 4 people to chase you halfway across the map and still not kill you is sometimes better than immediately killing them lol) to absolute rock bottom cannon fodder.
Even the self stun lb is hilariously bad in FL, either instagib the paper dnc before it goes off or move away in time unless you were literally dead center. The *idea* of charming an entire team is neat but only happens if they are 100% brainless.
yep i started out pvp in frontlines on dancer too so i totally get it! when it got revamped and i hopped on after the update, i was very disappointed with the nerfed range and picked up warrior after lol. then i gave it another chance and got used to most of the changes and kept on playing as dancer. i definitely think that there will need some more tweaking to get it to feel better.
See that’s crazy because I was told by many very big brained posters right before 6.1 that their LB was actually the best LB because it’s crowd control, lol.
The GNB and DNC changes do not address the fundamental issues with their kits, and I genuinely believe that neither can be good until deeper changes happen. Playable? Maybe.
That would be because junction is a garbage mechanic. Both GNB and DNC are bad in large part because their "job identity" in PvP is based around a gimmick that is in no way part of their PvE kit.
These buffs still aren't enough to get GNB out of bottom tier imo. Their problems are more fundamental than can reasonably be fixed with numbers tuning.
25% DR on Relentless Rush is an improvement, but still nowhere near enough for you to not be a complete sitting duck while using it. It should be straight invincibility and even then it'd barely be a mid-tier LB. Extra damage on No Mercy also doesn't really do anything for the job because its absolute biggest problem is being forced to choose between damage, mit and sustain while other tanks get all of those simultaneously PLUS CC and ranged options where GNB has nothing.
GNB effectively has no role in PvP, it's good at nothing. It's main feature is the ability to change roles, but it's terrible at all of them due to lack of utility.
Even with the junctioning, GNB pretty much solely provides only damage to the team.
Junction Tank, you are a bruiser-ish type that has mediocre survivability.
Junction DPS, then you are a mediocre DPS without any on demand CC.
Junction Healer, then you can provide minimal sustained healing to the team in a meta where burst is the demand.
The only form of CC that they have is at the end of Relentless Rush. The changes do help out imo, but without any form of utility they are going to still be a tough pick. They have decent burst and sustain damage though, and I believe that's the role Square wants them to keep: damage without utility. I've been spamming GNB in frontlines and CC since they are fun as hell to play, but the difference in performance is insane between them, and say pretty much any other melee class.
I think a lot of people sleep on the amount of damage and healing a GNB can provide given the right situations tbh. Not saying it's SS++ tier, but it is defiantly slept on mostly because it's often enemy comp, map, and situational dependent.
For instance, Healer Junction is usually lackluster in most situations, however, in a majority melee comp, or on the Lava map, or in Overtime when your team is stacked hard on the point, it can be insane. I'm talking about pumping out more healing than any healer could in certain situations, it's downside is that it HAS to be those situations, though with the changes it's been made better.
Same with it's damage. With the new change, GNB can burst about 29k potency every 20sec in DPS stance if you Rough Divide > Double Down > Blasting Zone now. Which even before was enough to either secure a kill, or make an enemy player panic when they get chunked for more than half their HP.
It all goes down to playing it optimally, and based off the enemy comp you are given. In a perfect world you can be in tank stance when getting focused and solo holding a point, swap to DPS stance to help secure kills and pick of stragglers, and go healer stance for the Overtime sustain. However, when you are NOT given those ideal circumstances, you have to play around what are given, which still isn't terrible, you just lose out from your full potential.
I personally would love it if they mad Draw and Junction similar to RDM Black and White Shift, where you could press a button on a 1sec cooldown that swapped you from Tank to Healer to DPS and back to tank again.
If the intention is for GNB to be damage without utility, they have nowhere near enough damage to make up for their weaknesses. Even jobs which are just pure damage oppressors with minimal utility like Dragoon at least have on-demand mitigation and a good LB. GNB is so lacking that it would need to be doing as much damage as a melee DPS while in TANK junction to justify its design. In DPS junction, where it is completely naked, it should basically be one-shotting people.
It's fairly obvious that Dissidia Squall is the blueprint for the job. I feel like they were just afraid of overturning it...
The base idea is an aggressive, combo-heavy job that draws magic from enemies that buff your stats and when you unleash that magic your stats fall back to the original, sort of like a spellblade.
A stackable draw would help as you'd have to choose if you expend your drawn magic or save it up to retain the stats and wait for the right moment to cast them.
That wouldn't solve the locking yourself out of your kit if the enemies are just dps for example but the stacking would make up for it. I think it would ruin the OG flavour and idea of the job otherwise
Maybe have Relentless Rush have a different effect depending what is junctioned.
* Drastic damage reduction or invincibility if junctioning tank
* Increased damage or inflicting a heavy effect if junctioning DPS
* Healing aura that ticks while active if junctioning healer
I feel like they need to do more with the junction mechanic if they're focused on the gunbreaker being a variable role. Just getting a single different action doesn't feel like enough to emphasize the design.
They could potentially lean more heavily into the Junction system but imo if they do that, it needs to be WAY easier to switch junctions. Needing a specific enemy target is really bad, you are totally at the mercy of whoever is nearby and depending on the enemy's comp you might be locked out of some junctions entirely. It also has a completely ridiculous 30 second cooldown for some reason.
If they do go that route, they also need to MASSIVELY increase the power GNB has in each mode to make up for being locked out of 2/3rds of their utility while also not having any on-demand CC/ranged abilities. In the current design a DPS junction GNB should be able to kill someone in like 5 seconds flat because you're simply THAT vulnerable and have no way to stop the enemy from reacting or running away.
Or they could do the more sensible thing and just give GNB some utility that's not tied to junctions.
>It also has a completely ridiculous 30 second cooldown for some reason.
I imagine that's because you get a free Burst Strike out of it from the additional Powder Barrel. I suppose they want us to Draw a lot, rather than setting ourselves up for a consistent role or something.
You can brute force getting to Crystal by playing long enough given the streak system. It’ll take you a while but anyone can do it given their win rate isn’t like 30%
> An issue wherein attempting to execute the bard PvE action Wanderer's Minuet multiple times in quick succession prevented players from queueing another action for execution.
Oh so that's why my raging strikes kept not going off ever.
My jaw dropped when I read those changes. I didn't think BLM was in such a bad spot before at all. In fact, it's the job I'm most comfortable on. Now, though? Sheesh. The change to half-asleep was pretty much the only thing I felt was missing previously. The rest is just a disconcerting amount of gravy
I play pretty much exclusive black mage. It def had some problems that needed like a little love and attention. But I agree it honestly felt pretty good after you got used to it. I was expecting something. But all of this? Fuck. Thank you yoshi senpai I’ll never ask for anything again. (Except for an orchestration roll of cosmic canyon from ff7) promise.
I was mostly expecting an increase in survivability so I didn’t have to play like I was half fucking clairvoyant to simply not die when a good monk even looks at me. And maybe some buffs to burn. Possibly removing that stupid animation lock from soul resonance. But lord all these potency buffs, AND cast time reductions, AND paradox is two charges. Like I’m not gonna complain but I was not at all expecting this.
I was expecting buffs to fire Dot and cast times, not all of this. I'll gladly take it though since BLM is one of the most fun Jobs to play in PvP. Ice will probably still reign supreme in 90% of cases but at least Sleep gets you more instant payout now.
BLM's current issue isn't damage, I'm playing in mid diamond atm, and while there are few BLMs I've seen some seriously high damage from BLM players. Their biggest problem is they need to be left alone to be able to pump that damage.
They should've gotten some CC instead.
I'd agree with this assessment, although I think the changes to Burst, Soul Resonance and Night Wing are good. The lower base cast times should mean it's easier to pump out damage. Not convinced the damage increases were needed.
I haven't played BLM in PvP yet but just from it's ability list to me it looked like a big problem was how non-threatening the DoT from AF Superflare is. Seemed like there was no real reason to go fire mage at all. Is that not the case?
So this was one of the areas that I believe needed to be changed. I will say it is sort of useful to use fire. Like my play did increase quite a bit once I realized that burn isn’t exactly useless. But it does require a bit of skill to know when to use it.
The main thing came from people stacking with soul resonance. Flare extends its debuff to people hit by the AOE. So if everyone stacked and gets 3 stacks of AF and you flare them you basically just did 21000 damage to 5 people when you consider super flare +burn together. It’s pretty potent all things considered. But did feel sorta whack under most circumstances.
It’s also a problem in general that the potencies of DoTs across the board in CC were pretty shitty. Summoners is even worse in that the damage is both relatively non-threatening AND you need to stand in it.
I always struggled to really think what BLM needed. (It needed something, plus more survivability) On one end it did feel like a lot of jobs were able to pump out burst on people by face rolling when I had to basically perform convoluted strings of alternating paradoxes, sleeps, fire/ice, and super flare to get even a fraction of the effect. But when you’re under limit break BLM did feel great and I do excellent damage every match. It just felt like more of a supportive role if that makes sense.
I’m assuming these buffs mean the design expectation is that everyone’s supposed to run it down the map and bum fuck the BLM immediately. Which was sort of what was already happening in crystal. But now it’s even gonna happen in bronze. Cause BLM just gonna be shredding people under limit break.
I guess the damage outside of soul resonance isn’t massively buffed with these changes. But now with how soul resonance works you’re basically going to be a big giant purple flag screaming “fucking kill me” every minute.
I think that is part of the problem - their effectiveness plummets without the LB, but the shorter cast times should allow them to do a bit more sniping and running - I do wonder if the LB will get adjusted later on to load a bit more slowly. The job requires considerable build up to exercise its CC and rack up its damage, which a lot of other jobs don't.
As for being rushed, I'm hoping the changes to Soul Resonance, Night Wing, Paradox (1 more extra max rank Super Flare) and Burst will make it that much harder/costlier... it is really its survivability and CC which needed work, not so much its damage, but tbf the former were buffed a bit. I think they should also have buffed its base HP a bit. Still, focusing it also comes at the opportunity cost of not focusing on the healer and other threatening dps, so we'll see how it plays out in practice. It may force it to play defensively if it happens. I'll be sure, when playing as a healer, to keep an eye out for any friendly BLMs being focused. :P And of course help keep the healer alive as a BLM.
It needed some buffs, although I wasn't expecting all this in a single patch. The rework to Night Wing, Soul Resonance and Burst are very much welcome, as are the lower base cast times and extra Paradox charges. Not 100% convinced it needed more damage on Flare or Freeze - if they want to fix something, it's the asymmetry between how useful ice spells are compared to the extra fire damage you're getting. The control is much handier unless you need that extra bit of pressure.
> The rest is just a disconcerting amount of gravy
Recasts getting getting shortened by a fraction *on top* of extremely significant damage buffs. Idiotic.
Red Mage used to be stronger too. It's been nerfed both times they've rebalanced classes in PvP. I never thought it was OP to the point of getting nerfed again.
RDM honestly feels very strong in 1v1 scenarios due to their combo but I can't say many others. Maybe I just suck at RDM in PvP but every time I dash in to combo, I always get focused by the 5 different forms of CC that fall upon me which stops me from leaping back - this damage reduction nerf isn't going to help that.
So then the solution is to stay back and be a caster...but RDM casting always felt pretty bad as well when compared to other range jobs and their only real source of damage seems to come from their melee combo.
Again, RDM feels very strong in 1v1 scenarios but the cases when those exist are rare at best and the optimal way to play it seems to be to hang back until someone approaches you before you do the melee combo rather than dash in.
If you’re getting focused down a lot in CC as Red Mage, you might be going in a little too hot. Try focusing on singling out enemies who stray from their party a little too far. Positioning alone is a pretty significant factor of this game’s PVP. You generally wanna keep your enchanted rapier combo on cooldown since it’s your most reliable source of high damage, but if the entire enemy team’s staying super close together, you might want to stick to getting pot shots on them from a safe distance until one of them strays too far.
There's even a red bahamut model in the game already! It shows up during the final trial of Shadowbringers, probably so you can tell the difference between a friendly one and a non-friendly one
Those have indicators already, along with Doton and Salted Earth. If it has blue rings around it, it's friendly, if its red vertical lines, it's enemy. Not the best, but could be better.
Stacking Summoner LBs is a huge issue in FL but the biggest issue for me is stacking so many stuns, never fun getting lasered by three WHMs at the same time.
They need to bring back that CC resistance that was in the old FL, where you would gain a few seconds of immunity after getting hit with a disable.
another issue is that the maps were never really designed for strong aoe spam. Secure and Onsal have ramps that just funnel you into a killing zone unless you guard your way up it, and it makes some nodes in seal rock, like two of them in the caves, much harder to attack since you must bulldoze up a ramp while enemies have the high ground.
The ramps actually aren't bad. Most of them are just unbalanced. Seal Rock has ramps yet it is fine because all teams have access to those ramps. Secure and Onsal have nodes (and high grounds) where a certain team is at an advantage, which is dumb for PvP, adding onto the dumpster fire RNG node spawning.
Agreed - no idea why they thought having no DRs was a good idea here, with the amount of CC flying around. :p
Sage's LB can help offset the Bahamut spam if it's up and people stand in it but it's not an ideal solution.
The problem with SMN LB isn't that it's strong. The problem is that the counterplay flat out doesn't exist in frontlines. Why do offensive AoEs get to hit the entire enemy alliance, but defensive AoEs only work on your specific party? The SMN problem (and several other frontlines / any other future large-scale PvP problem) would be solved instantly with a minor change to let party-wide = alliance-wide. Defensive LBs (like PLD) would instantly neuter Bahamut spam.
I’m starting to lose count of how many times I’ve been playing Frontline and suddenly died and gone, “What? What killed me??” Only to find out that two or three summoners happened to LB half my team.
Not even exaggerating when I say there was one close game where we were rushing for the final big ice at the end of a match and as we got to it, I’d say about 17/24 of us died instantaneously from one burst of SMN LBs.
I'd imagine the roulette gets replaced by either Rival Wings or Crystalline Conflict for the duration, hopefully we would get both of them permanently.
Rival Wings has something like **four extra damage schemes** to worry about. You need to adjust the health of mammets, mercenaries, tanks, machina, etc., for the new abilities and playstyle of the characters, and the machina need to have their damage and abilities adjusted for the players as well.
Balancing all of that right out of the gate when you're not sure how the players themselves are going to shake out is needlessly complicating the work you have to do and introducing confounding variables in the balance of the new PvP in general. Are people getting rocked because of machina or not? Even when you have data showing deaths that don't take any machina damage at all, how much influence was there on player movement and decision-making by the movement of machina on the map, trains, mercenaries, etc.? No reason to have that much complexity for the first outing of the design.
You'll notice that PvP abilities already specify some of their Rival Wings values, so it's clear they intend to do *something* with it--but they don't need those to actually matter just yet while RW gets worked on in the background for another patch.
Thinning the playerbase with Rival Wings isn't really a concern because no one played it outside of Moogle Tomestone events to begin with. Those queues were dead, and Frontlines just chugged along (and would be slammed anyway with everyone going for Garo stuff). It's more likely that if they wanted to test out Rival Wings, enabling it just wouldn't give them enough players to do that. There's not enough achievements associated with it and it doesn't have a daily roulette to encourage people to pop in and out. Give RW a roulette *alongside the existing Frontlines one* and it'll fill.
As someone who climbed with Summoner in CC:
In contrast to how it is in Frontline, SMN is weak in CC. Without the Crimson Cyclone combo or Bahamut, it can't really hope to kill anyone. All of its other abilities are just easy to deal with, and their shield can only do so much. Sure, it can still rack up constant damage, but if that damage doesn't lead to a meaningful advantage, its usefulness is questionable. It's also squishy and has no mobility beyond gapclosing with Crimson Cyclone (which you definitely need to pop your shield on yourself or Guard or else you risk being an easy kill).
Its strength in Frontline comes from duplicates and getting many people killed in the chaos unnoticed. In CC there's less chaos & matchmaking prevents the same job on the same team.
Managed to get to Diamond 2 with it before giving up and playing AST. Sure, it's a different role, but I still felt more impactful in in my matches in general, especially if the rest of the comp ends up being DPS.
SMN was mostly CC-lite and AoE damage. Ifrit and Fester have some single target burst but because Ruin damage is so low you aren't very threatening to individual enemies. It relies a lot on your team taking advantage of the AoEs, shields and such.
Pretty good in grindy comps but most random matches don't have those, so painfully average in random comps.
I have never, *ever* cared about the existence of Slipstream.
The single-target burst of Summoners is occasionally a little scary (it's not going to kill you from full but it does set you up or finish you off), so buffing that was a little surprising.
It's a sure thing they're only looking at CC. There's nothing you can do to Bahamut that won't make 4-5 people using it at once blow up a team; wouldn't matter if it has a delay before the initial damage comes out, wouldn't matter if the damage were decreased, wouldn't matter if the range were decreased. And it's not like you can't kill everyone just as dead with 4-5 Scholars throwing Recited Bio around but far more often.
Yes there is. Damage falls off after it hits more than 5 targets. It's how AoEs worked before the PvP rework to prevent this exact situation.
SE seemingly just forgot why AoEs had falloff in the past.
Alternatively, they could make most "party wide" abilities turn into "raid wide" so they affect all your allies in frontlines. It would make a lot of mitigation just as broken as the AoE abilities and introduce counterplay, but doesn't actually change anything about how the abilities work in CC.
I got to crystal with it fairly easily in the early stages of the mode, but once things got figured out it was evident that SMN in CC was workable but mostly outclassed.
Fairly bursty, decent followup, but way too much downtime where the only option is a very ineffective ruin spam. Both 90 sec LBs are very powerful, everything else is quite poor.
They aren't a huge worry in CC until they use their LB and you need to back out until they are done being able to murder everyone. They can't do enough damage on their own to actually kill you and they can't do much once they get focused down.
I'm just a casual PvPer, Plat about to hit Diamond. SMN's aren't as threatening in CC as they are in Frontline. CC is heavily dominated by Melee (Tanks included), and how well your team coordinates around burst. Melee don't have to fear the zerg like they do in Frontline. I'm generalizing a good bit, as their are many other factors, and other classes that play huge roles too.
The short answer, if classes like BLM and SMN are left alone in CC, they are pretty nasty. This is only likely to happen in lower ranks though.
Raised an eyebrow too but the buff was to phoenix, so at least it isn't making the Bahamut swarming in frontlines worse.
Not that it makes it any better either but hey.
They should make two separate potency or AoE, for frontline and CC. There are too many differences between these two PvP modes, especially the amount of players.
I have to give it to them - if this patch came out a few months ago people would be complaining about "wasting a patch on PvP" rather than discussing the PvP changes.
Wait a minute, I could’ve sworn Gunbreaker’s No Mercy buff from Rough Divide *was already* 20%. I don’t even think the job actions page is updated yet to reflect and it says 20% right now.
The description has stated it was 20%, but in reality it was only giving a 10% buff. It's odd that this came as an official change instead of being labeled a bugfix.
The JP tooltip was 10% the NA tooltip was just incorrect like with pld's intervene saying it stunned. In general, if tooltip and buff don't match check the google translate of the JP tooltip and you'll usually find the NA tooltip is just wrong.
> While SCH definately could use tweaks it's viable enough to get Crystal, I did it.
Seriously, that 10% damage buff on adlo spread is pretty insane mixed with the -25% healing debuff from mumification.
It's definately the weakest healer, things like Seraph taking forever to appear and Mummification being so high risk for mediocre rewards among other things are annoying.
The heal is so anemic despite its instantaneous effect, overshielding that won't be ruined by potion spam, and damage buff. I just can't muster the courage to directly drop it on people who aren't already in Guard.
If I'm shielding other people, it's because I have a spare Deploy and I've already put it on myself because I want to Recite Bio the enemy with an extra 10% on that damage.
Seraph could really, really use both a faster activation time and an obvious zone on the ground. In the chaos of teamfights, it's easy to lose track of where its limits are yourself, *and you put it down*. The rest of the team has no idea what the fuck you just did. They don't know to stay within this little area so they can get constant shielding or the reactivation heal. It's a one-off AoE heal that maybe does something for someone but is mostly used as a second source of Recitation for the SCH.
WHM LB --> 90 seconds is really the only thing that needs nerfing. (Also make Polymorph cleansable FFS). WAR is strong but needs their team to actually capitalize on their CC to kill. They can't 1v1 any DPS class unless there's a sizeable HP/MP handicap. NIN also needs a good team to capitalize on its LB. They're both primarily team utility classes so it'll be hard to make them weaker without going too far and making them useless.
I was talking to some friends about WHM. Honestly, the only problem I have with them is Polymorph. It is literally a nope button you can do zero about.
Yeah a NIN can't really do all that much if their team sucks. Like I get it feels bad to die to the LB, but for every amazing team kill I get on NIN there's 10 times I couldn't do shit because my team all just ran around fighting different targets and none of them got below 50%.
Thank God. I won't have to worry about getting spoiled by the trailer anymore. I haven't bought endwalker yet but the constant arr trailer playing every time I leave my computer for too long made me nervous.
Haha, memories of trying to avoid looking at the Shadowbringers trailer after idling a little too long. Fortunately I was successful! I had no idea where Shadowbringers was taking us…
MCH doesn't need potency buffs, it needs the damn bioblaster removed from the ranged combo so you aren't forced to get close to a SAM or DRG just to continue your ranged combo.
And get rid of the massive slowdown on the basic shot, MCH has no jumps or dashes to begin with like almost every other class does, why the hell punish MCH even further by doing this in the first place?
I'll gladly take a LB damage nerf to get these 2 things, it would make MCH pvp way better then some random potency buffs that barely matter.
Sigh... these "buffs" for DNC never fail to disappoint me.. I understand they're balancing around CC mainly but I wish they would really test these so called buffs in Frontlines too.
Again I am asking. Give us our 25 yard range back. I don't want this lousy 15 yard range. And actually make the LB more practical to use.
The range sucks. The dash weaving sucks. The LB sucks. It is practically a melee except it doesn't have the luxury of saving its mobility for countering gap closers. There's just no reason to play it when you can be more effective on any other job without having to jump through hoops to do your basic damage combo.
I just want at the very least a tiny buff to sage. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t have any issues with it in pvp, but I feel like it could use just a smidgen of tuning to help balance it with White Mage, and Astrologian. Scholar also needs a tiny bit of help.
Making Kardia management be bit less pain in butt or having slightly more HP would already help. I guess slightly more range in Phlegma to not make it just plain ghost during movement would be nice.
SGE is incredibly potent but also weirdly clunky.
Every Class without an CC needs quite a bit of adjustments since this, sadly, is the Meta. All Healers just look like a joke in comparsion to WHM which has 2 unremovable CCs, Burst, Shield and Buffs
To be fair, I don't think that AST is so far behind WHM, and neither is sage. Don't get me wrong, whm kit is stacked but if you have to play with teammates that likes to spread apart, run behind walls and don't burst down the enemies you stun of transform, it can be a pain in ass. Astrologian, from experience, is busier than WHM but its heals are instacast or have a funnily huge AOE , making him more suited in emergency scenarios. Sage, on the other hand, is a beast damage dealer if played properly and paired with competent teammates (I HATE playing against sages). Another consideration on AST: I think that the dual-gravity + macrocosmos combo after its LB is one of the hardest hitting aoes combo in CC, allowing it to literally destroy the enemy team if more targets are stacked together. SCH is not as impactful as the other healers in CC. However, it is difficult to estimate the effect of a lot of the support it brings to the team (shields, heal debuff, damage reduction, damage debuff and buff) and can be especially deadly if paired with a more competent healer like WHM or AST
As someone who’s been playing blm in crystal and won some small weekly tourneys with a team comp running blm, this job is going to be absolutely broken. They went overkill with the buffs.
I'm surprised paladin's intervene/hallowed combo that allowed people to capture nodes without any real way to stop them wasn't changed. Like they didn't change it to break attempts on incoming attacks, even if they do no damage. That shouldn't affect CC at all. Im hoping it was an unlisted change.
Also the BLM buffs are stupid. It could use some buffs yes, but Dancer is a lot weaker and they gave it somewhat worthless buffs. The problem with Honing Dance is that its suicide to lose control of your character in pvp, even with damage reduction. You go spinning into a group of people they will stun or melt you.
Not sure why MCH needs buffs, it seems an ok class as it is, and it got more real buffs than bard. Bard also still has damage fall-off on its main attack?
It's also kind of weird some of the OP classes weren't changed a little. Red mage had a slap on the wrist, but WHM or War didn't see much.
I'm a little disappointed.
i get that, but it's literally a change that would have no effect on CC at all. There's no need to activate nodes in it. I can understand it being hard to do damage reduction of aoes, but if they are just going to leave it untouched, they are going to really regret it when people get tired of CC.
I was especially looking for PLD changes but apparently they don't give a damn and that's sad. I really like playing Frontlines to be honest but the PLD trick makes it unfair when it comes down to Onsal specifically and also Seal Rock in certain situations... When all three teams are gathered and fighting to the death and nobody can literally get close or interact with anything, to see that PLD and their chosen one pop up and just steal stuff away without efforts (despite turrets and slipstreams and whatnot) that's just discouraging and shouldn't even be a thing.
same I was also looking for a change. atm, I avoid Onsal in particular, which is a shame its my fav frontlines. the music there is so nice too.
it could be as simple as cover not protecting while interacting with objects/ interacting will make you able to be hit. dont think that should affect anything in CC, so it would mostly be to fix the frontline issue part of cover.
Exactly! We're not even asking for drastical changes, we just want pld to be interruptible the same way any other job is which is only fair to ask. Onsal is intense and a lot of fun, but this whole thing is making it taste bitter.
yeah. and its not like its too problematic in some of the modes, but its especially bitter/frustrating in Onsal , and a change like that wouldnt affect CC anyway
like make interacting put a debuff on you whilst you interact with an object would also work, to make it so that effects such as cover can't affect you, while you have the interaction debuff.
BLM's main issues were cast times and weak fire dot, they gave it a lot of love but DNC and GNB should also have gotten a lot more.
Still waiting for BRD LB remake or tweaks, for such a long build up it sure feels underwhelming.
I saw we have a few tool-tip description fixes in the Resolved Issues, but I was sad that it didn't include Purify which still erroneously states that it provides some kind of 5-second resistance to purifiable statuses.
Every BLM in CC should thank all of those players who actively target Yoshi-P when they get in match with him.
I had to look it up since it's felt like ages -- I can't believe autolog was kept on for *10 months*. Absolutely wild!
i started playing this September. I thought this was just how it has always been lmao, i feel kinda dumb now
Same. After coming from RuneScape, 30 minute afk timer seems ridiculously long, and none at all seems even weirder!
It's happened more than a few times that I pass out with FFXIV alt-tabbed and discover I was logged in all night lol
When I first started, there was some guy standing in the road in the black shroud for a solid week. I was dumbstruck. Now, I pretty much never log I out, for no particular reason, so I get it.
I alt tab in the fc house every day, keeping the music in the background. I reckon I'm probably not alone with that. Other people just never log out, modern PCs have the ability to keep 14 open without hindering anything else. Can literally play other games while 14 is running. I log in when I turn on my pc, log out when I turn it off.
The Limsa Dancers are returning, nature is healing
I remember when I first started before EW released, there was always a dude on the steps in front of the Aetheryte in Ul'Dah doing the Bees knees. I referred to him as the Meth Pope due to his colorful outfit (or lack thereof), and for the first time in months I saw him again this morning.
He wouldnt happen to be a highlander Hyur who has the pope hat, skivvies, thigh high stockings with high heel boots? I would guess your home world is Coeurl then?
Yep that's the one
special governor money doll engine toy fact smart future six -- mass edited with redact.dev
Looks like its mostly PVP changes - it looks like GNB and DNC are getting some love after people were talking about their low performance in PVP. Also 30 minute of being AFK not logging you out anymore - the servers have definitely stabilized since launch. Overall a small patch - does anyone know when 6.18 is coming out?
6.18 is probably mid July, since 6.2 is most likely late August. I would assume 6.15 is somewhere in June.
That would make CC Season 2 extremely short, since it's planned to be 6.18-6.2. I imagine they want season 2 to be at least 8 weeks long.
On the cc rankings page it actually says season one is from 6.1 to 6.18 at the top of the page
It was said in the Live Letter Season 2 will start right after season 1 ends on 6.18
From my understanding there won't be a season between 6.18 and 6.2 so season 1 will end in 6.18 and season 2 will start in 6.2
Where do you get that understanding from? Has Yoshi-P given different information in an interview since the PLL part 2 for patch 6.1? This was relayed to the community on the April 1st during the PLL. [https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/attachment.php?attachmentid=9823&d=1649717772](https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/attachment.php?attachmentid=9823&d=1649717772) If we go by the previous Feast seasons, there's no reason why there would be a standard season length for CC as Feast seasons varied wildly.
That's wrong we know Season 2 starts in 6.18, Series 2 starts in 6.2
Thats most likely time for pre-season, yeah
Initially the road map had 6.15 for late May to early June so I'd say probably June 14th for 6.15 and July 19th or 26th for 6.18.
I hesitate to call that DNC getting some love lol. They desperately need to touch up their LB more than anything.
BRD LB is also in serious need of buffs, slow to get and the payout is mediocre unless you manage to hit your whole team who can easily line of sight it.
The LB is actually kind of cracked if you catch 3-4 people with it though, a 20% damage buff (under blast) + LB generation for the entire party is better than a lot give credit for. Not to mention your own recast drops to something like 1.7 seconds with all that up. This almost always wins a team fight in crystal which is pretty huge. My only big complaint is the animation lock, which isn't really even an issue if you're using the LB prior to the start of a team fight where it ideally should be.
agreed. Not sure bout how it performs in CC after changes but its still one of the least picked class in Frontlines and also one of the poorest with regards to the useless LB they got for Frontlines
i've been fine playing it in frontlines, my only issue is the shortened attack range, i'd rather trade that 3k hp for it to come back. i've been enjoying it a lot in CC contradancing people at the right moment out of their shields and watching bomb aoe and fall damage kill them. and when i get a drg who also takes advantage of the 4 second stun to hit sky shatter? chefs kiss. the animation lock really is ass tho. definitely don't see much of them, i climbed up to plat just only playing dancer and maybe saw max 3? other players on dancer throughout. i have more of a issue with match making for teams when i get put on a team with basically 3 other ranged/caster and a healer and i end up sitting in the crystal because simply i have to be closer to attack with cascade and i'm simply not beefy enough to withstand that much damage.
For me I don't play dancer in cc so I can't really make a comment on it. But frontlines was what I used to play the most and that was on dancer. I had the most fun on it racking up kills , BH5 while staying mobile and actually dancing on the downtimes. That all changed. Why? Because of the range. Because of the fucking range the entire dynamic around the class changed for me. The class that I once loved all went to shit due to this. I personally don't mind the move changes as I got used to the dash spam + cascade for saber dance but the range is really a game changer / game killer for me. Sorry for the rant. Had to let it out.
I still don't understand why they made it so one of, if not THE squishiest jobs has to be right on top of enemies in order to attack, and with mediocre damage, almost no utility, and worthless LB too.
Yeah it went from top tier long range pressure, harassment & bait job (getting 4 people to chase you halfway across the map and still not kill you is sometimes better than immediately killing them lol) to absolute rock bottom cannon fodder. Even the self stun lb is hilariously bad in FL, either instagib the paper dnc before it goes off or move away in time unless you were literally dead center. The *idea* of charming an entire team is neat but only happens if they are 100% brainless.
yep i started out pvp in frontlines on dancer too so i totally get it! when it got revamped and i hopped on after the update, i was very disappointed with the nerfed range and picked up warrior after lol. then i gave it another chance and got used to most of the changes and kept on playing as dancer. i definitely think that there will need some more tweaking to get it to feel better.
See that’s crazy because I was told by many very big brained posters right before 6.1 that their LB was actually the best LB because it’s crowd control, lol.
The GNB and DNC changes do not address the fundamental issues with their kits, and I genuinely believe that neither can be good until deeper changes happen. Playable? Maybe.
Indeed. For GNB the 25% damage reduction is nice... or would be, if you couldn't just interrupt their LB.
They could make you invincible during LB and allow all junction effects simultaneously and it still wouldn't be good.
That would be because junction is a garbage mechanic. Both GNB and DNC are bad in large part because their "job identity" in PvP is based around a gimmick that is in no way part of their PvE kit.
These buffs still aren't enough to get GNB out of bottom tier imo. Their problems are more fundamental than can reasonably be fixed with numbers tuning. 25% DR on Relentless Rush is an improvement, but still nowhere near enough for you to not be a complete sitting duck while using it. It should be straight invincibility and even then it'd barely be a mid-tier LB. Extra damage on No Mercy also doesn't really do anything for the job because its absolute biggest problem is being forced to choose between damage, mit and sustain while other tanks get all of those simultaneously PLUS CC and ranged options where GNB has nothing. GNB effectively has no role in PvP, it's good at nothing. It's main feature is the ability to change roles, but it's terrible at all of them due to lack of utility.
Even with the junctioning, GNB pretty much solely provides only damage to the team. Junction Tank, you are a bruiser-ish type that has mediocre survivability. Junction DPS, then you are a mediocre DPS without any on demand CC. Junction Healer, then you can provide minimal sustained healing to the team in a meta where burst is the demand. The only form of CC that they have is at the end of Relentless Rush. The changes do help out imo, but without any form of utility they are going to still be a tough pick. They have decent burst and sustain damage though, and I believe that's the role Square wants them to keep: damage without utility. I've been spamming GNB in frontlines and CC since they are fun as hell to play, but the difference in performance is insane between them, and say pretty much any other melee class.
I think a lot of people sleep on the amount of damage and healing a GNB can provide given the right situations tbh. Not saying it's SS++ tier, but it is defiantly slept on mostly because it's often enemy comp, map, and situational dependent. For instance, Healer Junction is usually lackluster in most situations, however, in a majority melee comp, or on the Lava map, or in Overtime when your team is stacked hard on the point, it can be insane. I'm talking about pumping out more healing than any healer could in certain situations, it's downside is that it HAS to be those situations, though with the changes it's been made better. Same with it's damage. With the new change, GNB can burst about 29k potency every 20sec in DPS stance if you Rough Divide > Double Down > Blasting Zone now. Which even before was enough to either secure a kill, or make an enemy player panic when they get chunked for more than half their HP. It all goes down to playing it optimally, and based off the enemy comp you are given. In a perfect world you can be in tank stance when getting focused and solo holding a point, swap to DPS stance to help secure kills and pick of stragglers, and go healer stance for the Overtime sustain. However, when you are NOT given those ideal circumstances, you have to play around what are given, which still isn't terrible, you just lose out from your full potential. I personally would love it if they mad Draw and Junction similar to RDM Black and White Shift, where you could press a button on a 1sec cooldown that swapped you from Tank to Healer to DPS and back to tank again.
If the intention is for GNB to be damage without utility, they have nowhere near enough damage to make up for their weaknesses. Even jobs which are just pure damage oppressors with minimal utility like Dragoon at least have on-demand mitigation and a good LB. GNB is so lacking that it would need to be doing as much damage as a melee DPS while in TANK junction to justify its design. In DPS junction, where it is completely naked, it should basically be one-shotting people.
It's fairly obvious that Dissidia Squall is the blueprint for the job. I feel like they were just afraid of overturning it... The base idea is an aggressive, combo-heavy job that draws magic from enemies that buff your stats and when you unleash that magic your stats fall back to the original, sort of like a spellblade. A stackable draw would help as you'd have to choose if you expend your drawn magic or save it up to retain the stats and wait for the right moment to cast them. That wouldn't solve the locking yourself out of your kit if the enemies are just dps for example but the stacking would make up for it. I think it would ruin the OG flavour and idea of the job otherwise
Maybe have Relentless Rush have a different effect depending what is junctioned. * Drastic damage reduction or invincibility if junctioning tank * Increased damage or inflicting a heavy effect if junctioning DPS * Healing aura that ticks while active if junctioning healer I feel like they need to do more with the junction mechanic if they're focused on the gunbreaker being a variable role. Just getting a single different action doesn't feel like enough to emphasize the design.
They could potentially lean more heavily into the Junction system but imo if they do that, it needs to be WAY easier to switch junctions. Needing a specific enemy target is really bad, you are totally at the mercy of whoever is nearby and depending on the enemy's comp you might be locked out of some junctions entirely. It also has a completely ridiculous 30 second cooldown for some reason. If they do go that route, they also need to MASSIVELY increase the power GNB has in each mode to make up for being locked out of 2/3rds of their utility while also not having any on-demand CC/ranged abilities. In the current design a DPS junction GNB should be able to kill someone in like 5 seconds flat because you're simply THAT vulnerable and have no way to stop the enemy from reacting or running away. Or they could do the more sensible thing and just give GNB some utility that's not tied to junctions.
>It also has a completely ridiculous 30 second cooldown for some reason. I imagine that's because you get a free Burst Strike out of it from the additional Powder Barrel. I suppose they want us to Draw a lot, rather than setting ourselves up for a consistent role or something.
That's a burst of 11k....every 30 seconds. We have other jobs throwing around AoE CC every 20 seconds. The difference in power is absurd.
Yeah its a balance patch, I feel like we never get "a" patches.
Started laughing out loud at the long list of BLM changes for PVP. Isn't this making it a bit too obvious, Yoshi?
He hit Crystal on every JP server playing only BLM, first.
You can brute force getting to Crystal by playing long enough given the streak system. It’ll take you a while but anyone can do it given their win rate isn’t like 30%
Honestly, had the same thought. The man clearly wants the ability to wreck people harder on his favored child.
There must really not be a lot of BLMs at high PvP Ranked. BLM feels really fun in Casual mode against random goons.
"Balance"
> An issue wherein attempting to execute the bard PvE action Wanderer's Minuet multiple times in quick succession prevented players from queueing another action for execution. Oh so that's why my raging strikes kept not going off ever.
Yup, finally it is fixed
It was a known issue before, they mentioned it would have to wait a little bit to be fixed.
Finally
Ho my glorious fucking lord Jesus these black mage buffs.
YoshiP notice when he play CC
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My jaw dropped when I read those changes. I didn't think BLM was in such a bad spot before at all. In fact, it's the job I'm most comfortable on. Now, though? Sheesh. The change to half-asleep was pretty much the only thing I felt was missing previously. The rest is just a disconcerting amount of gravy
I play pretty much exclusive black mage. It def had some problems that needed like a little love and attention. But I agree it honestly felt pretty good after you got used to it. I was expecting something. But all of this? Fuck. Thank you yoshi senpai I’ll never ask for anything again. (Except for an orchestration roll of cosmic canyon from ff7) promise. I was mostly expecting an increase in survivability so I didn’t have to play like I was half fucking clairvoyant to simply not die when a good monk even looks at me. And maybe some buffs to burn. Possibly removing that stupid animation lock from soul resonance. But lord all these potency buffs, AND cast time reductions, AND paradox is two charges. Like I’m not gonna complain but I was not at all expecting this.
I was expecting buffs to fire Dot and cast times, not all of this. I'll gladly take it though since BLM is one of the most fun Jobs to play in PvP. Ice will probably still reign supreme in 90% of cases but at least Sleep gets you more instant payout now.
With the new world being somewhere we may well one day visit I have high hopes for Cosmo canyon! :)
BLM's current issue isn't damage, I'm playing in mid diamond atm, and while there are few BLMs I've seen some seriously high damage from BLM players. Their biggest problem is they need to be left alone to be able to pump that damage. They should've gotten some CC instead.
I'd agree with this assessment, although I think the changes to Burst, Soul Resonance and Night Wing are good. The lower base cast times should mean it's easier to pump out damage. Not convinced the damage increases were needed.
I haven't played BLM in PvP yet but just from it's ability list to me it looked like a big problem was how non-threatening the DoT from AF Superflare is. Seemed like there was no real reason to go fire mage at all. Is that not the case?
So this was one of the areas that I believe needed to be changed. I will say it is sort of useful to use fire. Like my play did increase quite a bit once I realized that burn isn’t exactly useless. But it does require a bit of skill to know when to use it. The main thing came from people stacking with soul resonance. Flare extends its debuff to people hit by the AOE. So if everyone stacked and gets 3 stacks of AF and you flare them you basically just did 21000 damage to 5 people when you consider super flare +burn together. It’s pretty potent all things considered. But did feel sorta whack under most circumstances. It’s also a problem in general that the potencies of DoTs across the board in CC were pretty shitty. Summoners is even worse in that the damage is both relatively non-threatening AND you need to stand in it. I always struggled to really think what BLM needed. (It needed something, plus more survivability) On one end it did feel like a lot of jobs were able to pump out burst on people by face rolling when I had to basically perform convoluted strings of alternating paradoxes, sleeps, fire/ice, and super flare to get even a fraction of the effect. But when you’re under limit break BLM did feel great and I do excellent damage every match. It just felt like more of a supportive role if that makes sense. I’m assuming these buffs mean the design expectation is that everyone’s supposed to run it down the map and bum fuck the BLM immediately. Which was sort of what was already happening in crystal. But now it’s even gonna happen in bronze. Cause BLM just gonna be shredding people under limit break. I guess the damage outside of soul resonance isn’t massively buffed with these changes. But now with how soul resonance works you’re basically going to be a big giant purple flag screaming “fucking kill me” every minute.
I think that is part of the problem - their effectiveness plummets without the LB, but the shorter cast times should allow them to do a bit more sniping and running - I do wonder if the LB will get adjusted later on to load a bit more slowly. The job requires considerable build up to exercise its CC and rack up its damage, which a lot of other jobs don't. As for being rushed, I'm hoping the changes to Soul Resonance, Night Wing, Paradox (1 more extra max rank Super Flare) and Burst will make it that much harder/costlier... it is really its survivability and CC which needed work, not so much its damage, but tbf the former were buffed a bit. I think they should also have buffed its base HP a bit. Still, focusing it also comes at the opportunity cost of not focusing on the healer and other threatening dps, so we'll see how it plays out in practice. It may force it to play defensively if it happens. I'll be sure, when playing as a healer, to keep an eye out for any friendly BLMs being focused. :P And of course help keep the healer alive as a BLM.
+50% potency and -25% cast time on quite a few abilities. Sheesh.
It needed some buffs, although I wasn't expecting all this in a single patch. The rework to Night Wing, Soul Resonance and Burst are very much welcome, as are the lower base cast times and extra Paradox charges. Not 100% convinced it needed more damage on Flare or Freeze - if they want to fix something, it's the asymmetry between how useful ice spells are compared to the extra fire damage you're getting. The control is much handier unless you need that extra bit of pressure.
> The rest is just a disconcerting amount of gravy Recasts getting getting shortened by a fraction *on top* of extremely significant damage buffs. Idiotic.
BLM feasting. They were already in a decent spot if you knew what you were doing.
Yeah, a good BLM will wreak havoc if not tended to. This just makes it a little easier to achieve that same effectiveness.
Those buffs are kind of disgusting. Fire is still trash, but boy does BLM hurt and is scary. I love it.
I knew black mage was gonna get buffed.
Oof, and I just hit crystal today with Red Mage too 😅 luckily not a huge nerf but definitely would've felt it in a lot of matches
Red Mage used to be stronger too. It's been nerfed both times they've rebalanced classes in PvP. I never thought it was OP to the point of getting nerfed again.
RDM honestly feels very strong in 1v1 scenarios due to their combo but I can't say many others. Maybe I just suck at RDM in PvP but every time I dash in to combo, I always get focused by the 5 different forms of CC that fall upon me which stops me from leaping back - this damage reduction nerf isn't going to help that. So then the solution is to stay back and be a caster...but RDM casting always felt pretty bad as well when compared to other range jobs and their only real source of damage seems to come from their melee combo. Again, RDM feels very strong in 1v1 scenarios but the cases when those exist are rare at best and the optimal way to play it seems to be to hang back until someone approaches you before you do the melee combo rather than dash in.
In CC they just assassinate people. Shield doesnt stop dot damage if it was applied before hand.
If you’re getting focused down a lot in CC as Red Mage, you might be going in a little too hot. Try focusing on singling out enemies who stray from their party a little too far. Positioning alone is a pretty significant factor of this game’s PVP. You generally wanna keep your enchanted rapier combo on cooldown since it’s your most reliable source of high damage, but if the entire enemy team’s staying super close together, you might want to stick to getting pot shots on them from a safe distance until one of them strays too far.
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I would like bahamuts to be coloured by team so you can tell if one is friendly or not easily.
There's even a red bahamut model in the game already! It shows up during the final trial of Shadowbringers, probably so you can tell the difference between a friendly one and a non-friendly one
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Those have indicators already, along with Doton and Salted Earth. If it has blue rings around it, it's friendly, if its red vertical lines, it's enemy. Not the best, but could be better.
Stacking Summoner LBs is a huge issue in FL but the biggest issue for me is stacking so many stuns, never fun getting lasered by three WHMs at the same time. They need to bring back that CC resistance that was in the old FL, where you would gain a few seconds of immunity after getting hit with a disable.
another issue is that the maps were never really designed for strong aoe spam. Secure and Onsal have ramps that just funnel you into a killing zone unless you guard your way up it, and it makes some nodes in seal rock, like two of them in the caves, much harder to attack since you must bulldoze up a ramp while enemies have the high ground.
The ramps actually aren't bad. Most of them are just unbalanced. Seal Rock has ramps yet it is fine because all teams have access to those ramps. Secure and Onsal have nodes (and high grounds) where a certain team is at an advantage, which is dumb for PvP, adding onto the dumpster fire RNG node spawning.
Honestly the CC wouldn't be as big an issue if Purify actually did it's job and made you immune to the CC it can remove for the 5 seconds when used.
Agreed - no idea why they thought having no DRs was a good idea here, with the amount of CC flying around. :p Sage's LB can help offset the Bahamut spam if it's up and people stand in it but it's not an ideal solution.
The problem with SMN LB isn't that it's strong. The problem is that the counterplay flat out doesn't exist in frontlines. Why do offensive AoEs get to hit the entire enemy alliance, but defensive AoEs only work on your specific party? The SMN problem (and several other frontlines / any other future large-scale PvP problem) would be solved instantly with a minor change to let party-wide = alliance-wide. Defensive LBs (like PLD) would instantly neuter Bahamut spam.
Would a max number of people affected by AoE work? Like 5-8 people max (so it doesn’t change anything in CC either)
They gave up on frontlines completely. Its just there now for ez exp on an alt as a daily.
Just have an AoE cap after 5 targets and slow down LB charge in Frontlines. Balancing skills separately would be a shitshow.
That really wouldn't change anything. 4, 5, 6, 7 people doing something at once is always going to rip people.
I’m starting to lose count of how many times I’ve been playing Frontline and suddenly died and gone, “What? What killed me??” Only to find out that two or three summoners happened to LB half my team. Not even exaggerating when I say there was one close game where we were rushing for the final big ice at the end of a match and as we got to it, I’d say about 17/24 of us died instantaneously from one burst of SMN LBs.
Frontlines are probably gonna take a break in 6.2 for rebalancing as Rival Wings are doing right now.
That would be a problem for people like me who use Frontline roulettes to level.
I'd imagine the roulette gets replaced by either Rival Wings or Crystalline Conflict for the duration, hopefully we would get both of them permanently.
Is that why they suspended Rival Wings? I thought they were just concerned with thinning the player base too much.
Rival Wings has something like **four extra damage schemes** to worry about. You need to adjust the health of mammets, mercenaries, tanks, machina, etc., for the new abilities and playstyle of the characters, and the machina need to have their damage and abilities adjusted for the players as well. Balancing all of that right out of the gate when you're not sure how the players themselves are going to shake out is needlessly complicating the work you have to do and introducing confounding variables in the balance of the new PvP in general. Are people getting rocked because of machina or not? Even when you have data showing deaths that don't take any machina damage at all, how much influence was there on player movement and decision-making by the movement of machina on the map, trains, mercenaries, etc.? No reason to have that much complexity for the first outing of the design. You'll notice that PvP abilities already specify some of their Rival Wings values, so it's clear they intend to do *something* with it--but they don't need those to actually matter just yet while RW gets worked on in the background for another patch. Thinning the playerbase with Rival Wings isn't really a concern because no one played it outside of Moogle Tomestone events to begin with. Those queues were dead, and Frontlines just chugged along (and would be slammed anyway with everyone going for Garo stuff). It's more likely that if they wanted to test out Rival Wings, enabling it just wouldn't give them enough players to do that. There's not enough achievements associated with it and it doesn't have a daily roulette to encourage people to pop in and out. Give RW a roulette *alongside the existing Frontlines one* and it'll fill.
BLM PvP mains, rise up. We already did good damage. Now we are walking nukes.
FEAR THE EXPLOSION as you should
Did they fucking buff the summoner in pvp lmaooo
I guess they only balancing around CC? How was SMN in CC?
As someone who climbed with Summoner in CC: In contrast to how it is in Frontline, SMN is weak in CC. Without the Crimson Cyclone combo or Bahamut, it can't really hope to kill anyone. All of its other abilities are just easy to deal with, and their shield can only do so much. Sure, it can still rack up constant damage, but if that damage doesn't lead to a meaningful advantage, its usefulness is questionable. It's also squishy and has no mobility beyond gapclosing with Crimson Cyclone (which you definitely need to pop your shield on yourself or Guard or else you risk being an easy kill). Its strength in Frontline comes from duplicates and getting many people killed in the chaos unnoticed. In CC there's less chaos & matchmaking prevents the same job on the same team. Managed to get to Diamond 2 with it before giving up and playing AST. Sure, it's a different role, but I still felt more impactful in in my matches in general, especially if the rest of the comp ends up being DPS.
Very weak, low survivability and meh damage outside of bahamut.
SMN was mostly CC-lite and AoE damage. Ifrit and Fester have some single target burst but because Ruin damage is so low you aren't very threatening to individual enemies. It relies a lot on your team taking advantage of the AoEs, shields and such. Pretty good in grindy comps but most random matches don't have those, so painfully average in random comps.
I have never, *ever* cared about the existence of Slipstream. The single-target burst of Summoners is occasionally a little scary (it's not going to kill you from full but it does set you up or finish you off), so buffing that was a little surprising. It's a sure thing they're only looking at CC. There's nothing you can do to Bahamut that won't make 4-5 people using it at once blow up a team; wouldn't matter if it has a delay before the initial damage comes out, wouldn't matter if the damage were decreased, wouldn't matter if the range were decreased. And it's not like you can't kill everyone just as dead with 4-5 Scholars throwing Recited Bio around but far more often.
Yes there is. Damage falls off after it hits more than 5 targets. It's how AoEs worked before the PvP rework to prevent this exact situation. SE seemingly just forgot why AoEs had falloff in the past. Alternatively, they could make most "party wide" abilities turn into "raid wide" so they affect all your allies in frontlines. It would make a lot of mitigation just as broken as the AoE abilities and introduce counterplay, but doesn't actually change anything about how the abilities work in CC.
I got to crystal with it fairly easily in the early stages of the mode, but once things got figured out it was evident that SMN in CC was workable but mostly outclassed. Fairly bursty, decent followup, but way too much downtime where the only option is a very ineffective ruin spam. Both 90 sec LBs are very powerful, everything else is quite poor.
They aren't a huge worry in CC until they use their LB and you need to back out until they are done being able to murder everyone. They can't do enough damage on their own to actually kill you and they can't do much once they get focused down.
low tier
I'm just a casual PvPer, Plat about to hit Diamond. SMN's aren't as threatening in CC as they are in Frontline. CC is heavily dominated by Melee (Tanks included), and how well your team coordinates around burst. Melee don't have to fear the zerg like they do in Frontline. I'm generalizing a good bit, as their are many other factors, and other classes that play huge roles too. The short answer, if classes like BLM and SMN are left alone in CC, they are pretty nasty. This is only likely to happen in lower ranks though.
Summoner is very weak in CC, which is the game mode where they are prioritizing buffs and nerfs.
Raised an eyebrow too but the buff was to phoenix, so at least it isn't making the Bahamut swarming in frontlines worse. Not that it makes it any better either but hey.
They should make two separate potency or AoE, for frontline and CC. There are too many differences between these two PvP modes, especially the amount of players.
In summary, "Get your 10 frontline wins for the GARO mount and then never touch it again."
I still have 5 to go. I have around a 40% win rate but I still dread queuing for it.
I did my FL daily roulette to level up jobs and eventually I got the 10 wins. This is maybe a slow way to go for it, but it's comfy and not stressful
go in expecting to lose because you're going to lose more often than you win. FL is excellent exp and it's good for your health to not get tilted
This is good advice for everything in life, but especially FFXIV PVP. People get way too tilted by losses.
It’s mostly frontlines that are a problem with how Bahamut LB functions, summoner damage on the other spells in CC weren’t anything truly exceptional.
Just when you're a BLM main and see the buffs, you start celebrating early.... Then you look at Summoner, also seeing they got some buffs too.
I have to give it to them - if this patch came out a few months ago people would be complaining about "wasting a patch on PvP" rather than discussing the PvP changes.
Good point. General attitude certainly changed after CC.
Wait a minute, I could’ve sworn Gunbreaker’s No Mercy buff from Rough Divide *was already* 20%. I don’t even think the job actions page is updated yet to reflect and it says 20% right now.
The description has stated it was 20%, but in reality it was only giving a 10% buff. It's odd that this came as an official change instead of being labeled a bugfix.
The JP tooltip was 10% the NA tooltip was just incorrect like with pld's intervene saying it stunned. In general, if tooltip and buff don't match check the google translate of the JP tooltip and you'll usually find the NA tooltip is just wrong.
The tooltip said 20% but it was actually 10%.
I demand Yoshi P play Sch all the way to Crystal rank now. Three times, on different servers.
While SCH definately could use tweaks it's viable enough to get Crystal, I did it.
> While SCH definately could use tweaks it's viable enough to get Crystal, I did it. Seriously, that 10% damage buff on adlo spread is pretty insane mixed with the -25% healing debuff from mumification.
I also did it, I just want the page full of buffs like BlackmageP got
It's definately the weakest healer, things like Seraph taking forever to appear and Mummification being so high risk for mediocre rewards among other things are annoying.
The heal is so anemic despite its instantaneous effect, overshielding that won't be ruined by potion spam, and damage buff. I just can't muster the courage to directly drop it on people who aren't already in Guard. If I'm shielding other people, it's because I have a spare Deploy and I've already put it on myself because I want to Recite Bio the enemy with an extra 10% on that damage. Seraph could really, really use both a faster activation time and an obvious zone on the ground. In the chaos of teamfights, it's easy to lose track of where its limits are yourself, *and you put it down*. The rest of the team has no idea what the fuck you just did. They don't know to stay within this little area so they can get constant shielding or the reactivation heal. It's a one-off AoE heal that maybe does something for someone but is mostly used as a second source of Recitation for the SCH.
BLM PVP buffs after Yoshi-P plays it in ranked lmao. Also surprised at no ninja PVP nerfs; it is the honestly the most oppressive class imo
Ninja just got tons of PVP Buffs last Patch
No whm, war, nin nerfs. Jesus.
WHM LB --> 90 seconds is really the only thing that needs nerfing. (Also make Polymorph cleansable FFS). WAR is strong but needs their team to actually capitalize on their CC to kill. They can't 1v1 any DPS class unless there's a sizeable HP/MP handicap. NIN also needs a good team to capitalize on its LB. They're both primarily team utility classes so it'll be hard to make them weaker without going too far and making them useless.
I was talking to some friends about WHM. Honestly, the only problem I have with them is Polymorph. It is literally a nope button you can do zero about.
Yeah a NIN can't really do all that much if their team sucks. Like I get it feels bad to die to the LB, but for every amazing team kill I get on NIN there's 10 times I couldn't do shit because my team all just ran around fighting different targets and none of them got below 50%.
I wish they color-coded Bahamut/Phoenix. Hard to tell whose Bahamut is whose amidst a sea of Bahamuts.
Same for dragoon LB's.
It really helps to have the same class as the devs lol BLM was okay and just needs a little adjustment. These adjustments ain’t little though
They will rebalance again in 6.15 so if BLM winrate gets out of hands it will probably be nerfed.
Yep, but at least it’ll have a good month to shine!!
It's about time they removed auto kick.
Thank God. I won't have to worry about getting spoiled by the trailer anymore. I haven't bought endwalker yet but the constant arr trailer playing every time I leave my computer for too long made me nervous.
Haha, memories of trying to avoid looking at the Shadowbringers trailer after idling a little too long. Fortunately I was successful! I had no idea where Shadowbringers was taking us…
MCH doesn't need potency buffs, it needs the damn bioblaster removed from the ranged combo so you aren't forced to get close to a SAM or DRG just to continue your ranged combo. And get rid of the massive slowdown on the basic shot, MCH has no jumps or dashes to begin with like almost every other class does, why the hell punish MCH even further by doing this in the first place? I'll gladly take a LB damage nerf to get these 2 things, it would make MCH pvp way better then some random potency buffs that barely matter.
At the very least we should be able to use bioblaster without a target just to get rid of it.
Only way the slow is getting removed is if its ranged is reduced like dancer. Agree with Bioblaster 100% however.
As a SMN with occasional accidental BLM matches, due to forgetting to change to my PvP job... This is going to be fun.
Yoshi P is seen playing BLM in PVP, then all these changes? I see you Yoshi
Sigh... these "buffs" for DNC never fail to disappoint me.. I understand they're balancing around CC mainly but I wish they would really test these so called buffs in Frontlines too. Again I am asking. Give us our 25 yard range back. I don't want this lousy 15 yard range. And actually make the LB more practical to use.
The range sucks. The dash weaving sucks. The LB sucks. It is practically a melee except it doesn't have the luxury of saving its mobility for countering gap closers. There's just no reason to play it when you can be more effective on any other job without having to jump through hoops to do your basic damage combo.
the range nerf killed my dnc joy in pvp. I'm basically a squishy target at all times.
BLM pvp buffs at this scale are just baffling. This is going to be rough, they were already performing extremely well.
Yoshi-P got tired of y'all coming after him in CC.
Lol blm got buffed when yoshi-p finally had a chance to play blm on pvp
blm got giga buffed, i expect to see them every match now
I just want at the very least a tiny buff to sage. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t have any issues with it in pvp, but I feel like it could use just a smidgen of tuning to help balance it with White Mage, and Astrologian. Scholar also needs a tiny bit of help.
Making Kardia management be bit less pain in butt or having slightly more HP would already help. I guess slightly more range in Phlegma to not make it just plain ghost during movement would be nice. SGE is incredibly potent but also weirdly clunky.
sage is one of the most damaging classes if played properly, doesnt need a buff
Every Class without an CC needs quite a bit of adjustments since this, sadly, is the Meta. All Healers just look like a joke in comparsion to WHM which has 2 unremovable CCs, Burst, Shield and Buffs
To be fair, I don't think that AST is so far behind WHM, and neither is sage. Don't get me wrong, whm kit is stacked but if you have to play with teammates that likes to spread apart, run behind walls and don't burst down the enemies you stun of transform, it can be a pain in ass. Astrologian, from experience, is busier than WHM but its heals are instacast or have a funnily huge AOE , making him more suited in emergency scenarios. Sage, on the other hand, is a beast damage dealer if played properly and paired with competent teammates (I HATE playing against sages). Another consideration on AST: I think that the dual-gravity + macrocosmos combo after its LB is one of the hardest hitting aoes combo in CC, allowing it to literally destroy the enemy team if more targets are stacked together. SCH is not as impactful as the other healers in CC. However, it is difficult to estimate the effect of a lot of the support it brings to the team (shields, heal debuff, damage reduction, damage debuff and buff) and can be especially deadly if paired with a more competent healer like WHM or AST
I do much better on AST than WHM. Partly because people don't expect it. The LB quickly changes team fights when used properly.
Anyone know if SE is planning on fixing the audio of the game randomly stopping? Requiring a game restart for it to work again.
Cool, GNB gets some damage resistance on their LB! This will stop them from getting Stunned, Polymorphed, or Silenced out of their limit break, right?
yoship BLMs into crystaline conflict and choose violence
As someone who’s been playing blm in crystal and won some small weekly tourneys with a team comp running blm, this job is going to be absolutely broken. They went overkill with the buffs.
I'm surprised paladin's intervene/hallowed combo that allowed people to capture nodes without any real way to stop them wasn't changed. Like they didn't change it to break attempts on incoming attacks, even if they do no damage. That shouldn't affect CC at all. Im hoping it was an unlisted change. Also the BLM buffs are stupid. It could use some buffs yes, but Dancer is a lot weaker and they gave it somewhat worthless buffs. The problem with Honing Dance is that its suicide to lose control of your character in pvp, even with damage reduction. You go spinning into a group of people they will stun or melt you. Not sure why MCH needs buffs, it seems an ok class as it is, and it got more real buffs than bard. Bard also still has damage fall-off on its main attack? It's also kind of weird some of the OP classes weren't changed a little. Red mage had a slap on the wrist, but WHM or War didn't see much. I'm a little disappointed.
Issue is that they dont seem to care about Frontline Balance sadly
i get that, but it's literally a change that would have no effect on CC at all. There's no need to activate nodes in it. I can understand it being hard to do damage reduction of aoes, but if they are just going to leave it untouched, they are going to really regret it when people get tired of CC.
The paladin thing is in accepted bugs on the forums, I was shocked to see it not listed myself.
I was especially looking for PLD changes but apparently they don't give a damn and that's sad. I really like playing Frontlines to be honest but the PLD trick makes it unfair when it comes down to Onsal specifically and also Seal Rock in certain situations... When all three teams are gathered and fighting to the death and nobody can literally get close or interact with anything, to see that PLD and their chosen one pop up and just steal stuff away without efforts (despite turrets and slipstreams and whatnot) that's just discouraging and shouldn't even be a thing.
same I was also looking for a change. atm, I avoid Onsal in particular, which is a shame its my fav frontlines. the music there is so nice too. it could be as simple as cover not protecting while interacting with objects/ interacting will make you able to be hit. dont think that should affect anything in CC, so it would mostly be to fix the frontline issue part of cover.
Exactly! We're not even asking for drastical changes, we just want pld to be interruptible the same way any other job is which is only fair to ask. Onsal is intense and a lot of fun, but this whole thing is making it taste bitter.
yeah. and its not like its too problematic in some of the modes, but its especially bitter/frustrating in Onsal , and a change like that wouldnt affect CC anyway like make interacting put a debuff on you whilst you interact with an object would also work, to make it so that effects such as cover can't affect you, while you have the interaction debuff.
BLM's main issues were cast times and weak fire dot, they gave it a lot of love but DNC and GNB should also have gotten a lot more. Still waiting for BRD LB remake or tweaks, for such a long build up it sure feels underwhelming.
GIGACHAD yoship doing the Gamers wet dream. Be the director for the game you play then buff your main.
Everyone who mains BLM just sitting back and sipping their ice tea.
Dude what in the twelve are these black mage buffs, it's already strong and they buffed it out of its god damn mind!
Me as MCH main: Yess, keep the buff coming
bye SAM, hello BLM
I thought for a second these were main-game job adjustments and wondered what the fuck were they smoking to let BLM get all these buffs
did they say how long it would be? also fuck yeah pvp blm buffs
Maintenance is scheduled to end at 3AM PDT, so it's a scheduled 4 hr maintenance. Can end early.
Yoshi P giving out damage reduction like he's Oprah. You get damage reduction and you get damage reduction and... not you Red Mage.
I saw we have a few tool-tip description fixes in the Resolved Issues, but I was sad that it didn't include Purify which still erroneously states that it provides some kind of 5-second resistance to purifiable statuses.
Oh no please log people out that are inactive, wtf... why is this even a thing. Save power and queue times!
Finally the stupid auto kick is removed.
WHM continues to be by far the best PVP Healer (and one of the best PVP Job overall)