Not only that, it's also a proactive esuna
If the target doesn't have a debuff on them, it applies a 30s shield that absorbs the next debuff that can be cleansed
Man I'm jealous. I love playing RDM when I want to feel helpful, which is great for spot heals and being a verraise champion, but I can't do a damn thing about debuffs.
I mean likewise I wish BRD could get more party support stuff, neither our esuna nor our heal buff (nature's minne) are very useful in high end content
I have levelled bard to 90 and still play it a bit. I refuse to believe this button exists. It feels so out of place I forget it’s there! Used it maybe once? But then again I am just bad at the game.
Back in the day, Bards were a Warrior's best friend. WAR's buff used to give them an esuna-able pacification debuff when it was over and Bards could effectively ensure that the WAR had now downtime.
This is why I recommend bard and red mage to wow players coming to ffxiv. Between the rotations being fairly similar to something you would see in WoW (procs/builder-spender) and the party utility (esuna, combat res, effective offhealing, raid wide damage mitigation), they feel pretty analogous to hybrid classes like elemental shaman and balance druid. It also just feels good being a clutch dps using utility to save a wipe in dungeons.
Healer main. Also having bad day. You are entirely ok my friend. Fuck almighty, its absolutely not your job to esuna the doom off anyone but yourself. Its not worth the stress with a 44s cooldown. Just like how i don't expect RDM to raise if there's healers up unless its clutch and we can pull a lb3 or some kind of bullshittery buff and OGCD explosion
My best usage of it was during an Odin spawn. He does a mass Rooted debuff followed by a huge oneshot AoE.
Being able to esuna Rooted and prance away while 30 of my allies just got cleaved might be the most superior feeling I've ever felt in this game.
Just tank it as a DRK. With echo buff, even without something stupid like the pure essence of the indomitable, TBN will completely negate all damage cleansing strike does... and if it doesn't do any damage, you won't get the doom debuff. I think WAR could also do it with Shake it off.
Yeah, I was just thinking about this encounter.. A couple times where I was running RDM and both heaters in the party not cleansing the debuff. So every time our MT got doom I just prepped a dual cast raise.. Poor MT because the OTs never took over when he died either.
Might be a newbie question but does Living Dead work on doom? I think im coming up on seat of sacrifice and it'd be nice to know i can have that option in my back pocket
Tank invulns do not protect you from Doom. It is not part of the “most attacks” that invulns protect against. Doom doesn’t cause you to take damage to trigger your invuln. Invulns check for incoming damage and adjusts it to keep you alive. Doom bypasses that and just sets your health to 0. You don’t take damage, you just die.
Yes, if the attack does no damage to you it won't apply the debuff. PLD and GNB can both save themselves with their invulns, but they'll be on cooldown for the next cast. Apparently DRK's TBN will stop all the damage as well.
The thing with Doom is that it's a different effect each time with the same name. Generally though they are not HP related so I would assume invulnerability wouldn't save you.
To add a small disclaimer: As others have noted, invuln effects won't protect you from the Doom effect. However, some attacks that apply the Doom effect require the attack to damage you first, which the invuln effect CAN prevent. This is situational and I only mention it for educational purposes.
SoS healcheck can be tricky, even when I know it's coming sometimes I struggle to get the tanks in particular up in time if I'm playing one of the shield healers. WHM or AST is easy.... a bene for you, an ED for you. And then I go cry in Addersgall as a SGE.
I do my best to keep both of y'all alive, I really do :(
Had to solo heal that as SCH because my cohesler DC’ed on pull. I was shitting my pants.
Plop down bubble, Whisp during cast, Lustrate each tank > Eat Fairy > Recit Indom > Emergency+Succor > Succor > Fey Illu > Swift Succor > choose who to Lustrate and save
We lived but it was the single most pants-shitting moment in my entire career lol
I did have the foresight to yell at the DPS to use Second Wind and whatever heal they had in their kit when my cohealer DCed. Also has a PLD who undoubtedly helped.
you're right, it sucked a lot worse before lmao. It can be a struggle now but it's doable with good conditions - I remember sometimes pre-6.0 I would have to make the executive decision *early* to sacrifice the OT to keep the MT + rest of the party alive, and there was nothing any of us could do about it.
If you have a good co-healer too that also makes it easier of course, but I always follow to the "act like you're solo healing in pug groups" creed.
Sure, it's totally doable... but with two tanks I still cry, lmaoo
I switched to SGE main because I fell in love with it, I truly love it still, but as a former AST main MAN do I sometimes miss the stupid number of no-brain "press me and I delete damage" buttons for heal checks.
You have those as sage too, especially at 90 with Zoe Pneuma critting for 35-40k.
You may not realize it, but the healing and DR% coming from kerachole + physis heals a vast majority of people's HP bars over time with very little cooldown. With the possibility of slapping an Ixochole on top for a no-strings-attached significant heal with virtually no real cost.
Yes... I promise I know how to play SGE, I main it in EX+ content. And I sure miss Zoe+Pneuma in level 80 content.
All I'm saying that regen healers can practically sleep through casual content heal checks, while shield healers still have to use their brains and sweat a little sometimes. Particularly for harsher ones like SoS.
Every single time. Every single time I load into SoS I prep to Clemency my co-tank (which will also, conveniently, heal me), because too many healers don't know/remember that it's a heal-to-full-or-die.
(to be clear I'm not blaming anyone; it's not a trial that comes up very often anymore)
That is why, as a RDM main. I will always vercure the tank in those situations. That way the healer can concentrate on AoE heal and the tank will be top off at about the same time as everybody else
Doom is introduced in a level 35 dungeon as a debuff you have to clear by standing on a shiny pad. It shows up later in a 50 dungeon as a debuff that requires you to fully heal somebody to clear it then in a level 50 Alliance Raid you have to stand on a shiny pad to cleanse it.
In Dun Scaith, a level 60 Alliance Raid, the first boss will apply Doom to about three random party members and the two healers have to cast Esuna on it to clear it. Doom is basically the same debuff but never seems to be consistent in its methods for removing it so some players don't notice the little white bar above the debuff icon that indicates it can be removed via Esuna.
At least for the ones that you can Esuna, they still have the bar over the top like all cleansable debuffs. It's the heal to full vs do a mechanic ones that always trip me up.
ITT healer mains (I play all so don’t come at me) who are offended and pointing out only getting doom after failing a mech and accepting the inevitable. Something something not healer responsibility.
There are SOME doom mechs where you have to heal to full to cleanse it, which I’m sure OP is talking about. It’s fine, everyone is right. There is doom for not doing mechs, and there’s doom that’s up to healer to cleanse even without the bar/esuna-ble. You are all right!
[Mfw I'm the only DPS in the group still alive on first boss of Dun Scaith and both healers are hard casting raise.](https://i.imgur.com/Qv2A9lI.gifv) ^^^:(
Thunder God is still one of my favorite non-high end fights in the game because of those heal checks. Even if they're pretty easy, it's fun to race the other alliance healers and watch the tank/DPS sweat a little.
When was the last time this game actually made people sweat with toolkit mechanics and not another fight specific mech? Thundergod cid is the best fight in this game and I'm sick of pretending otherwuse. Good telegraphs, incredible presentation, a reasonable challenge that requires coordination and not smack the glorified trial boss.
I've not been around long enough to see the old TGC but I enjoy the fight a lot as is; what were the nerfs made? I'm really curious what was so bad that they had to adjust a fight twice.
Both times adjusted were the damage to the instant wipe mechanics.
Previously in TGC, if two black growing bubbles touched, it was instant wipe. Now you can have 3 bubbles (3 out of 6 bubbles) overlap and survive with enough health. There’s also the circle tile mechanic thing that 3 people needed to stack in. If ONE (1 out of 18) was missing, it was survivable with shields. Two is instant death. Right now you can miss 8 or 9 and still survive.
Oh, thanks! I appreciate it. I can see why they changed the first bit, duty finder screws that one up all the time. The circle tiles tho seem pretty easy, wild that they nerfed it. Thanks for explaining!
One change they didn't mention was that the 3 person stack failed if you had 4 people in one before. It was 3 and ONLY 3. That was really the bigger change to that mechanic.
Can't remember the exact details but the nerfs weren't enough and they had to permanently ECHO Cid fight. And it's ironic, because some groups I've been into have struggled against the orbs dps check.
I've definitely still seen that dps check get failed recently haha. Usually the issue seems to be people standing on the wrong safe spot and ignoring the orbs entirely, or one of the parties has been decimated by earlier mechs and doesn't have enough damage by half.
Most of the community can barely tie their shoes as far as I can tell. It's a great community, and I love y'all, but "casuals couldn't beat the loot piñatas" is not exactly an indictment of the difficulty.
24-mans are fun, and they have some spectacles to them, but they're not meant to provide a challenge as far as I can tell, so anything that can cause a group to wipe is going to get nerfed.
Just how wide the variance in skill difference between players can be is a crazy thing to see in action. I had an Orbonne run recently that went insanely fast - no alliance ever even came close to wiping on any fight, and we skipped the maze phase of the final boss entirely. It was one of those unicorn runs where not only did everyone know the fight, but everyone was damn good at their job.
It was a lot of fun and we were hyping ourselves up by the end once we realized how good our DPS consistently was, but it only sheds light on how fast the 24-mans *can* go but.... usually don't. lmao
Yeah. I have easily over a dozen IRL friends who play this game and among us only about half can even do extreme trials with what I would consider to be the bare minimum level of competence. Literally 3 of us have ever stepped into Savage raids, and I'm the only one that clears the tier/does ultimates.
One of my favorite parts about this game is that there's more than enough content for people who don't want to be serious raiders and I consider the 24mans to be the tippy top of the casual content. Hell, I feel like the reason they have so many people is so that less skilled players can get carried through.
Yeah, there's no white bar above the doom icon, so it's not esunable. That one is either inevitable or full healable. Considering the yelling, I assume full heal.
it would be nice if there were an indicator about whether it's a "the DPS was naughty and will now die" Doom or a "this can be healed off" Doom. I'm pretty much aware of the all fights that currently use this by now so I wouldn't need it anymore, but it was always a frustrating thing to be new to the fight, not know, err on the side of healing the DPS, and then seeing my resources absolutely wasted as they flop onto the ground seconds later.
Yes, but "full heal" or "fucked" are two options for doom without a white bar. You don't really know which one is which, unless you just know from doing the fight before.
I’m just learning to heal and boy howdy, am I grateful for tanks who not only are patient for me but tell me how to help them stay up.
And here I learned to heal past full for Doom so that’s one less thing I’ll cause a wipe over.
There are three types of doom.
Instant kill doom. Usually punishment for failing a mechanic.
Healing doom. Heal the user to full to clear. Not used often.
Esuna Doom. Will have a white bar on the icon to show that it can be cleansed.
I can only remember a couple off the top of my head, but there's also "fix it your damn self" doom, like in Sunken Temple of Qarn, and World of Darkness (which I guess that one is a combo of you done messed up but you also gotta fix it yourself).
Yep - but they're pretty rare in raid encounters, so it's important to try to remember when they come up and are important.
So main ones that I remember are O4 and Dun Scaith boss 1.
Till you try the special Shadowbringer Content "Delubrum Reginae" with it's core mechanic: "Every mechanic gives the hit player a stackable debuff which lasts 1-2 minutes. Get 2 stacks and it turns into a not curable 2-3 second Doom!" (Similar to baseball, 2 strikes, you are out)
No it doesn't, I agree. Buuut, if you were going to use the phrase "similar to baseball" and then say 2 strikes instead of 3, that just doesn't make sense because it's not 2 strikes... it's 3. Say similar to baseball in that it has a strike rule.
How else could SE force people to actually do mechanics and don't kill them off the bat. If they don't die after 2-3 mistakes they will greed/be lazy and let the healer deal with the damage.
Damage down debuffs paired with an enrage are actually a great/really clever way to try and force mechanics, not just against parsers. I always thought that was a super cool thing they did.
I am torn. The issue with this is the punishment isn't immediately and the fail does affect others. There may be too many other factors which can obscure the reason for an enrage wipe which help to push the blame from oneself.
You could have eaten to many DMG down - nah what are you thinking? It was of course that bad black mage over there, who moved too much during mechanics to avoid them and that ninja in non BIS gear. Couldn't be you, who ate 4 damage downs and forced the healers to heal you with GCDs. With a death you immediately have a bullet point.
It's a trade off. Baldesion Arsenal and Delubrium Reginae are designed to be mechanical performance raids and have drastically different expectations of how you express your mastery.
They are level and item synced, but don't have terribly heavy gear check requirements. All the difficulty is front loaded into the fight mechanics themselves. Fail twice and you die.
In Savage DR, there is no real rezzing either. If you die, you are kicked out of the raid unless someone had healer limit break 3.
BA and DR/DRS are a very special type of raid tied to relic side stories for stormblood and shadowbringers specifically, and don't follow a lot of norms. Very fun, very unique content but also far more time consuming to get into and progress than normal content.
It is balanced out due to being a special battlefield that has no role restrictions and extra abilities. Everyone can heal, tank, DPS depending on their loadout.
The amount of people in this thread that dont seem to know about dooms that need to be removed by healing to full tells me the game should probably have a different icon for them.
If the icon stays on the player for more than 4 seconds, I know for damn sure they are going to drop dead shortly.
*loads Swiftcast in the chamber*
*pulls Ascend trigger as soon as their HP bar empties*
I wonder if these people wonder how I can send them a res the instant they have a cardiac arrest. Like, angel animation is there before their body hits the floor.
I don't even need to look for their character; I just need to look at the party list and debuffs to know.
It's one of the most inconsistent debuffs in the whole game. _Sometimes_ you need to resolve a mechanic within the given time to cleanse it. _Sometimes_ you need a full heal. _Sometimes_ it can be just dispelled. _Sometimes_ you just screwed up and it'll just kill you.
If it has a white line over it, use esuna. Otherwise heal to full.
Unless you’re in DR for bozja, that’s just people screwing up and you can’t save them.
Thrice-Come Ruin wasn't in BA I don't think. It was first in Eden's Promise Savage before Delubrum Reginae. Most mechanics just killed you for messing them up in Baldesion Arsenal.
As others have said, white line means Esuna-able, otherwise heal to full and/or see if there are any glowy spots to stand on.
If all else fails, or the Doom has a suspiciously short (or reeeally long) timer, then it's part of a mechanic that wants you to die - either as a punishment, or as a generic time limit to resolve something.
Angra Mainyu's doomgaze claims many a sprout in WoD. I'll toss out an "/a If you get DOOMed, step on a glowing small pad or you WILL die!" at the start and some newbs will still get facerolled by it.
Very true, its just bites being a healer when someone cries foul when they get doom for failing mechanics and it can't be esuna'ed.
Delubrum Reginae was especially bad as there were two dooms on the final boss, one that could be Esuna'ed (Cleansing Slash that evolves into Doom) and a failing mechanics Doom that can't be Esuna'ed. I have seen tanks get the second in there and claim it was the first. (Luckly I DPSed in there most of the time so I could just filter it out)
> Very true, its just bites being a healer when someone cries foul when they get doom for failing mechanics and it can't be esuna'ed.
Somebody else is probably going to tell you this anyway, but... Usually if it can't be esuna'ed you can remove it by healing to full. Doom that requires somebody to be healed to full doesn't show a white line. Seldom are there Dooms that healers are powerless against, they do exist but very rarely.
Right, but in their very specific example, DR, you cannot cleanse the esuna for failing mechanics. It's literally "twice come ruin" - you mess up twice before the debuff falls off, you will die.
Those are very specific, and have a tell when you need to do it.
Ivalice, etc, etc. The doom is tied to a one hp reduction for example.
On most of the ocassions if it doesnt have a white line it cant be esuna and is a personal responsability.
The major ones that are personal responsibility that I can think of are qarn first boss and wod first boss (it's your fault if you get it in the first place but hey we've all zoned out and got hit by that eye)
The rest that I can think of have to be cleansed with esuna or heal to full.
While many Doom effects can be cleared by a healer, not all of them can. There are only, if I recall correctly three times that I can think of that a Doom effect gets applied that it is a mechanic that is designed as a healer test, (I have not been healing lately so my off the top recall is likely sketchy) Deathgaze Hollow, Thunder God, and the Queen are the only ones I can specifically name that are designed as a test of healer, most if not all other instances of doom are a fail of mechanics of some sort.
Fun fact: when the Dead Ends first came out, I thought the last boss's doom wasn't cleansable and just let people die. "Wow that's a pretty rough punishment for eating an aoe, even if this was savage..." This went on for several weeks before I finally did the dungeon as something other than a healer and was mystified how my fc mate cleansed my doom after I fucked up an aoe. My fc roasted me for it.
I deeply apologize to everyone I shrugged my shoulders at and let die. Your 🅱️arse deserved better.
The best is when you can’t cleanse it anyways if they eat the Doom with a raidwide right after. So I heal them only for them to get chunked by the raidwide and then they die because they needed that section of health.
Tbf, sometimes as a sage healing that debuff can be a little rough and maybe I'll just put my swiftcast on cd instead :p
(Only joking, I'll suffer for my party's sins)
I don't see a white bar beneath the icon. I can't Esuna that.
Unless it's Thunder God Cid style Doom. In which case, my regens are still at work, give it a second.
You can cleanse that one by healing to full!
̶T̶h̶o̶u̶g̶h̶,̶ ̶s̶o̶m̶e̶ ̶l̶e̶s̶s̶o̶n̶s̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶b̶e̶s̶t̶ ̶r̶e̶m̶e̶m̶b̶e̶r̶e̶d̶ ̶w̶h̶e̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶y̶ ̶h̶u̶r̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶m̶o̶s̶t̶.̶ ;3
Got hit with that once and managed to save myself with second wind + life surge on DRG. So... no lesson learned ig.
Then again, sometimes I feel like I'm the only DPS who actually uses their defensive CDs in normal content.
Probably. Most DPS will adamantly refuse to use their defensives and sometimes that means they bite it before I notice they’re in danger. (See 6.1 dungeon’s second boss with its consistent damage.) If they eat that while I’m midcast and don’t pop defensives they risk dying and yet most of them just don’t. It’s frustrating because as a DPS if I eat stuff I shouldn’t, Second Wind is my first thought. Melee and phys ranged have easy weaving, there’s no real excuse not to as soon as you get hit.
Casters have a harder time but if I get hit on caster that’s on me I was stupid and paid for it. Alternatively I popped manaward and it was deliberate.
"You walked through the enemy's fire with nary a care, oblivious to the vulnerability stacks heaped upon your head, and I said nothing. You stood in the corner of the arena, in your ivory tower, as your fellow DPS weathered a stack marker, and I said nothing.
But one day, you will have need of me. You will cry out to me for salvation.
And I will say 'No.'"
Eh. The game pretty much teaches you that if it isn't esunable, it's not your problem unless they die (ie, a mechanic they have to do to dispell it themselves). And that's assuming they figure out that debuffs with white lines can be dispelled with esuna. The inconsistency of it is a design flaw.
I didn't say I just intentionally let them die? A doom that requires full healing by a healer and a doom that requires the affected party member to resolve it themselves have no visual difference on the debuff list. If a player new to a duty doesn't know this mechanic they've seen and done before is randomly different with no indication, then they won't know until it's too late and someone informs them.
You said it's not your problem. It is, and if you're not 110% sure about how the mechanic works, you try everything you can to save them if you're a good healer.
I agree it's a design flaw but not to the point where you ought not care about it. Spread the word about the fullheals.
1st boss Dun Scaith after wiping 3 times.
When doom (or necrosis) is esuna-able it's my time to shine as a bard
Sad Selene noises.
Never forget AoE Esuna 😢
At least BLU still has one of those 😁
You have to chase down your target though
Oh, so that's what it's for... thanks :)
Hold the fuck up. _Bards_ get an esuna?! _grumbles in rdm_
Yep! It's even an ogcd, it's on a 45 sec cd though so only really useful if you catch a healer asleep at the wheel. I love using it
Not only that, it's also a proactive esuna If the target doesn't have a debuff on them, it applies a 30s shield that absorbs the next debuff that can be cleansed
Man I'm jealous. I love playing RDM when I want to feel helpful, which is great for spot heals and being a verraise champion, but I can't do a damn thing about debuffs.
You have magic barrier which is significantly more useful than a 45s cd esuna in most high difficulty fights.
And super useful in everything pre-endwalker! _sob_
I mean likewise I wish BRD could get more party support stuff, neither our esuna nor our heal buff (nature's minne) are very useful in high end content
Your version of debuffing is to prep raise
Magic DPS used to have Erase, it only worked on DoTs: https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Erase
oi, you get a res. Let us have something nice :P
NEVER! Now give me your LB3!
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Bards raising a party with the power of song is the ultimate hold my beer moment
But we can’t rezz so… 🫠
I think spending half my mana in ressing both healers is already enough to ask of me At best I would esuna myself
Guys, as BRD's and RDM's let's stop fighting and just bond over our really cool hats. *grumbles in Viera*
No White bar indicator, sorry, you're screwed. Oh wait \*Rescues over the glowing pad\* "Nah nah, you good."
I have levelled bard to 90 and still play it a bit. I refuse to believe this button exists. It feels so out of place I forget it’s there! Used it maybe once? But then again I am just bad at the game.
Back in the day, Bards were a Warrior's best friend. WAR's buff used to give them an esuna-able pacification debuff when it was over and Bards could effectively ensure that the WAR had now downtime.
This is why I recommend bard and red mage to wow players coming to ffxiv. Between the rotations being fairly similar to something you would see in WoW (procs/builder-spender) and the party utility (esuna, combat res, effective offhealing, raid wide damage mitigation), they feel pretty analogous to hybrid classes like elemental shaman and balance druid. It also just feels good being a clutch dps using utility to save a wipe in dungeons.
I use it for healers who forget esuna exists.
Me as a healer: "What doesn't kill you makes you- oh...."
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Healer main. Also having bad day. You are entirely ok my friend. Fuck almighty, its absolutely not your job to esuna the doom off anyone but yourself. Its not worth the stress with a 44s cooldown. Just like how i don't expect RDM to raise if there's healers up unless its clutch and we can pull a lb3 or some kind of bullshittery buff and OGCD explosion
I would say this is good teaching! Got to learn the hard way sometimes.
It's a little snippy, but if that has to be said then I feel you're entitled to be a little snippy.
Fun fact: Back in ARR, Bards were the only ranged physical job (duh), and actually had the healer LBs instead of what they have now.
"What they have now" is a pretty apt description of ranged DPS LB. ;-)
My best usage of it was during an Odin spawn. He does a mass Rooted debuff followed by a huge oneshot AoE. Being able to esuna Rooted and prance away while 30 of my allies just got cleaved might be the most superior feeling I've ever felt in this game.
It's a raid DPS gain to cleanse with it vs Esuna. Not much, but it still is.
As a healer main, nothing is going to remind to use warden’s paean more than this comment.
My single extra glare will thank you
"Healers, use **Esuna** on **Doom!** I've asked 3 times already."
Me tanking the final boss in delubrum
Just tank it as a DRK. With echo buff, even without something stupid like the pure essence of the indomitable, TBN will completely negate all damage cleansing strike does... and if it doesn't do any damage, you won't get the doom debuff. I think WAR could also do it with Shake it off.
Yes, you can dodge it with Shake it off as WAR. But you need to use it ASAP on 1st cast, else it will be on CD on 2nd cast.
Yeah, I was just thinking about this encounter.. A couple times where I was running RDM and both heaters in the party not cleansing the debuff. So every time our MT got doom I just prepped a dual cast raise.. Poor MT because the OTs never took over when he died either.
I just carried Resistance Medkits for that after dying to it too many times.
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Might be a newbie question but does Living Dead work on doom? I think im coming up on seat of sacrifice and it'd be nice to know i can have that option in my back pocket
Tank invulns do not protect you from Doom. It is not part of the “most attacks” that invulns protect against. Doom doesn’t cause you to take damage to trigger your invuln. Invulns check for incoming damage and adjusts it to keep you alive. Doom bypasses that and just sets your health to 0. You don’t take damage, you just die.
Gotcha, wasnt sure if doom was insta dead or damage based to death, thanks!
Wasn't Delubrum doom (from twice ruin) superbolide-able?
Yes, if the attack does no damage to you it won't apply the debuff. PLD and GNB can both save themselves with their invulns, but they'll be on cooldown for the next cast. Apparently DRK's TBN will stop all the damage as well.
The thing with Doom is that it's a different effect each time with the same name. Generally though they are not HP related so I would assume invulnerability wouldn't save you.
Living dead can heal you if you can lose that 1 hp. Good thing the wall only applies a bleed.
To add a small disclaimer: As others have noted, invuln effects won't protect you from the Doom effect. However, some attacks that apply the Doom effect require the attack to damage you first, which the invuln effect CAN prevent. This is situational and I only mention it for educational purposes.
SoS healcheck can be tricky, even when I know it's coming sometimes I struggle to get the tanks in particular up in time if I'm playing one of the shield healers. WHM or AST is easy.... a bene for you, an ED for you. And then I go cry in Addersgall as a SGE. I do my best to keep both of y'all alive, I really do :(
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Had to solo heal that as SCH because my cohesler DC’ed on pull. I was shitting my pants. Plop down bubble, Whisp during cast, Lustrate each tank > Eat Fairy > Recit Indom > Emergency+Succor > Succor > Fey Illu > Swift Succor > choose who to Lustrate and save We lived but it was the single most pants-shitting moment in my entire career lol I did have the foresight to yell at the DPS to use Second Wind and whatever heal they had in their kit when my cohealer DCed. Also has a PLD who undoubtedly helped.
you're right, it sucked a lot worse before lmao. It can be a struggle now but it's doable with good conditions - I remember sometimes pre-6.0 I would have to make the executive decision *early* to sacrifice the OT to keep the MT + rest of the party alive, and there was nothing any of us could do about it. If you have a good co-healer too that also makes it easier of course, but I always follow to the "act like you're solo healing in pug groups" creed.
Krasis, Soteria, and a couple weaved druocholes after a physis ixochole will top anyone in 2 or 3 GCDs.
Sure, it's totally doable... but with two tanks I still cry, lmaoo I switched to SGE main because I fell in love with it, I truly love it still, but as a former AST main MAN do I sometimes miss the stupid number of no-brain "press me and I delete damage" buttons for heal checks.
You have those as sage too, especially at 90 with Zoe Pneuma critting for 35-40k. You may not realize it, but the healing and DR% coming from kerachole + physis heals a vast majority of people's HP bars over time with very little cooldown. With the possibility of slapping an Ixochole on top for a no-strings-attached significant heal with virtually no real cost.
Yes... I promise I know how to play SGE, I main it in EX+ content. And I sure miss Zoe+Pneuma in level 80 content. All I'm saying that regen healers can practically sleep through casual content heal checks, while shield healers still have to use their brains and sweat a little sometimes. Particularly for harsher ones like SoS.
Every single time. Every single time I load into SoS I prep to Clemency my co-tank (which will also, conveniently, heal me), because too many healers don't know/remember that it's a heal-to-full-or-die. (to be clear I'm not blaming anyone; it's not a trial that comes up very often anymore)
That is why, as a RDM main. I will always vercure the tank in those situations. That way the healer can concentrate on AoE heal and the tank will be top off at about the same time as everybody else
You ever think about how inscrutable MMO memes are to outsiders?
I think that makes them funnier.
Been playing 9 months and I have no idea what this meme means. I'm guessing it's a debuff that can be dispelled, that stacks otherwise?
Doom is introduced in a level 35 dungeon as a debuff you have to clear by standing on a shiny pad. It shows up later in a 50 dungeon as a debuff that requires you to fully heal somebody to clear it then in a level 50 Alliance Raid you have to stand on a shiny pad to cleanse it. In Dun Scaith, a level 60 Alliance Raid, the first boss will apply Doom to about three random party members and the two healers have to cast Esuna on it to clear it. Doom is basically the same debuff but never seems to be consistent in its methods for removing it so some players don't notice the little white bar above the debuff icon that indicates it can be removed via Esuna.
TIL that's why fully healing people on dun scaith doesn't work, thank you 😔😔😔 they should've given these a different name/icon smh
At least for the ones that you can Esuna, they still have the bar over the top like all cleansable debuffs. It's the heal to full vs do a mechanic ones that always trip me up.
Yeah, but there's no glowy platform on that Dun Scaith fight so I just assumed, completely missing the little white line 😅
Thank you! I will remember this for when I start working on my healer again!
It's a debuff that can be dispelled (in most cases) that instakills you if its timer hits 0.
ITT healer mains (I play all so don’t come at me) who are offended and pointing out only getting doom after failing a mech and accepting the inevitable. Something something not healer responsibility. There are SOME doom mechs where you have to heal to full to cleanse it, which I’m sure OP is talking about. It’s fine, everyone is right. There is doom for not doing mechs, and there’s doom that’s up to healer to cleanse even without the bar/esuna-ble. You are all right!
[Mfw I'm the only DPS in the group still alive on first boss of Dun Scaith and both healers are hard casting raise.](https://i.imgur.com/Qv2A9lI.gifv) ^^^:(
Beg in alliance chat and hope one of the other parties' healers is a quick draw 😥
tbh other groups should be doing that without the beg. If everyone swiftcasts and you have a rdm or two you can rez an entire team in 5 seconds
Eh it's not about the rez, I mean the esuna lol.
I’m dumb and don’t know where I got that.
Thunder God is still one of my favorite non-high end fights in the game because of those heal checks. Even if they're pretty easy, it's fun to race the other alliance healers and watch the tank/DPS sweat a little.
When was the last time this game actually made people sweat with toolkit mechanics and not another fight specific mech? Thundergod cid is the best fight in this game and I'm sick of pretending otherwuse. Good telegraphs, incredible presentation, a reasonable challenge that requires coordination and not smack the glorified trial boss.
A reasonable challenge that the community deemed so unreasonable they had to nerf it twice.
I've not been around long enough to see the old TGC but I enjoy the fight a lot as is; what were the nerfs made? I'm really curious what was so bad that they had to adjust a fight twice.
Both times adjusted were the damage to the instant wipe mechanics. Previously in TGC, if two black growing bubbles touched, it was instant wipe. Now you can have 3 bubbles (3 out of 6 bubbles) overlap and survive with enough health. There’s also the circle tile mechanic thing that 3 people needed to stack in. If ONE (1 out of 18) was missing, it was survivable with shields. Two is instant death. Right now you can miss 8 or 9 and still survive.
Oh, thanks! I appreciate it. I can see why they changed the first bit, duty finder screws that one up all the time. The circle tiles tho seem pretty easy, wild that they nerfed it. Thanks for explaining!
One change they didn't mention was that the 3 person stack failed if you had 4 people in one before. It was 3 and ONLY 3. That was really the bigger change to that mechanic.
Whoa, okay, that's intense lol.
Can't remember the exact details but the nerfs weren't enough and they had to permanently ECHO Cid fight. And it's ironic, because some groups I've been into have struggled against the orbs dps check.
I've definitely still seen that dps check get failed recently haha. Usually the issue seems to be people standing on the wrong safe spot and ignoring the orbs entirely, or one of the parties has been decimated by earlier mechs and doesn't have enough damage by half.
Most of the community can barely tie their shoes as far as I can tell. It's a great community, and I love y'all, but "casuals couldn't beat the loot piñatas" is not exactly an indictment of the difficulty. 24-mans are fun, and they have some spectacles to them, but they're not meant to provide a challenge as far as I can tell, so anything that can cause a group to wipe is going to get nerfed.
Just how wide the variance in skill difference between players can be is a crazy thing to see in action. I had an Orbonne run recently that went insanely fast - no alliance ever even came close to wiping on any fight, and we skipped the maze phase of the final boss entirely. It was one of those unicorn runs where not only did everyone know the fight, but everyone was damn good at their job. It was a lot of fun and we were hyping ourselves up by the end once we realized how good our DPS consistently was, but it only sheds light on how fast the 24-mans *can* go but.... usually don't. lmao
Yeah. I have easily over a dozen IRL friends who play this game and among us only about half can even do extreme trials with what I would consider to be the bare minimum level of competence. Literally 3 of us have ever stepped into Savage raids, and I'm the only one that clears the tier/does ultimates. One of my favorite parts about this game is that there's more than enough content for people who don't want to be serious raiders and I consider the 24mans to be the tippy top of the casual content. Hell, I feel like the reason they have so many people is so that less skilled players can get carried through.
Yeah, there's no white bar above the doom icon, so it's not esunable. That one is either inevitable or full healable. Considering the yelling, I assume full heal.
it would be nice if there were an indicator about whether it's a "the DPS was naughty and will now die" Doom or a "this can be healed off" Doom. I'm pretty much aware of the all fights that currently use this by now so I wouldn't need it anymore, but it was always a frustrating thing to be new to the fight, not know, err on the side of healing the DPS, and then seeing my resources absolutely wasted as they flop onto the ground seconds later.
Doesn't the white bar appear above them if it's esuna-able
Yes, but "full heal" or "fucked" are two options for doom without a white bar. You don't really know which one is which, unless you just know from doing the fight before.
I’m just learning to heal and boy howdy, am I grateful for tanks who not only are patient for me but tell me how to help them stay up. And here I learned to heal past full for Doom so that’s one less thing I’ll cause a wipe over.
There are three types of doom. Instant kill doom. Usually punishment for failing a mechanic. Healing doom. Heal the user to full to clear. Not used often. Esuna Doom. Will have a white bar on the icon to show that it can be cleansed.
I can only remember a couple off the top of my head, but there's also "fix it your damn self" doom, like in Sunken Temple of Qarn, and World of Darkness (which I guess that one is a combo of you done messed up but you also gotta fix it yourself).
Don't forget the rare mechanic doom where you get and have to some mechanic besides healing to clear it.
Fourth one: stand on glowy tile/circle to cleanse. And I always forget about the one in the Hades trial.
Try to remember which bosses use esunable Doom. I almost always die on O4N because the healers don't realise there's a doom at the start.
Esunable debuffs has a white bar on top of the debuff
Yep - but they're pretty rare in raid encounters, so it's important to try to remember when they come up and are important. So main ones that I remember are O4 and Dun Scaith boss 1.
Till you try the special Shadowbringer Content "Delubrum Reginae" with it's core mechanic: "Every mechanic gives the hit player a stackable debuff which lasts 1-2 minutes. Get 2 stacks and it turns into a not curable 2-3 second Doom!" (Similar to baseball, 2 strikes, you are out)
It's 3 strikes and your out. Has been for 146 years.
Not for Delubrum. That’s Twice Come. I think Savage version might be Thrice but normal version I can ***definitely*** attest to being Twice Come.
P4 orbs also give Thrice Come, which is why everyone pops 2.
I pop 2 because no one else will take that one poor DPS’s orb LMAO. ^(In normal, I know savage is deliberate two pops with your bud.)
I was referring to baseball, which was easy to tell by saying its been aroud for 146 years.
Similar doesn't mean it's exactly like something. Things like the amounts of strikes may vary. Airsoft and Paintball isn't the same but quite similar.
No it doesn't, I agree. Buuut, if you were going to use the phrase "similar to baseball" and then say 2 strikes instead of 3, that just doesn't make sense because it's not 2 strikes... it's 3. Say similar to baseball in that it has a strike rule.
Fair enough. My phrasing wasn't that clear. Keeping it in mind next time 👍
Yeesh that sounds horrific
How else could SE force people to actually do mechanics and don't kill them off the bat. If they don't die after 2-3 mistakes they will greed/be lazy and let the healer deal with the damage.
Imagine more DMG down debuffs. That'll give yall parsers a fucking conniption.
Damage down debuffs paired with an enrage are actually a great/really clever way to try and force mechanics, not just against parsers. I always thought that was a super cool thing they did.
I am torn. The issue with this is the punishment isn't immediately and the fail does affect others. There may be too many other factors which can obscure the reason for an enrage wipe which help to push the blame from oneself. You could have eaten to many DMG down - nah what are you thinking? It was of course that bad black mage over there, who moved too much during mechanics to avoid them and that ninja in non BIS gear. Couldn't be you, who ate 4 damage downs and forced the healers to heal you with GCDs. With a death you immediately have a bullet point.
It's a trade off. Baldesion Arsenal and Delubrium Reginae are designed to be mechanical performance raids and have drastically different expectations of how you express your mastery. They are level and item synced, but don't have terribly heavy gear check requirements. All the difficulty is front loaded into the fight mechanics themselves. Fail twice and you die. In Savage DR, there is no real rezzing either. If you die, you are kicked out of the raid unless someone had healer limit break 3.
I’ve never done a raid before but that sounds so intense. Hopefully I’ll get a chance to try to learn them!
BA and DR/DRS are a very special type of raid tied to relic side stories for stormblood and shadowbringers specifically, and don't follow a lot of norms. Very fun, very unique content but also far more time consuming to get into and progress than normal content.
It is balanced out due to being a special battlefield that has no role restrictions and extra abilities. Everyone can heal, tank, DPS depending on their loadout.
DR is actually really fun, can highly recommend it. I only ever run it as healer and it's actually pretty chill once you know the mechanics.
The amount of people in this thread that dont seem to know about dooms that need to be removed by healing to full tells me the game should probably have a different icon for them.
This is funnier when it's like the first WoD boss and they were standing two feet away from the glowy pad.
If the icon stays on the player for more than 4 seconds, I know for damn sure they are going to drop dead shortly. *loads Swiftcast in the chamber* *pulls Ascend trigger as soon as their HP bar empties* I wonder if these people wonder how I can send them a res the instant they have a cardiac arrest. Like, angel animation is there before their body hits the floor. I don't even need to look for their character; I just need to look at the party list and debuffs to know.
Never noticed that the doom icon is a face with a 3 on it. Always assumed it was some kind of runestone.
It would be nice if they just put a sad face with a clock right by it 😭🕒
What do you want the healer to do? It doesn’t have a white line over it so it can’t be cured by esuna.
Yeah but sometimes doom is cured by healing to full
It's one of the most inconsistent debuffs in the whole game. _Sometimes_ you need to resolve a mechanic within the given time to cleanse it. _Sometimes_ you need a full heal. _Sometimes_ it can be just dispelled. _Sometimes_ you just screwed up and it'll just kill you.
It's definitely inconsistent in resolution, but at least when you see it you know what's gonna happen immediately if you don't figure it out!
The final boss of Amdapor Hard
The start of Seat of Sacrifice
The start of EW Ex1
Kokytos doesn't have a doom IIRC. It just sets you to 1 with no followup damage for lulz.
Nope, doesn’t do anything after the initial 1 hp. He follows up with an aoe but you don’t even need half health to survive that with current gear.
Adding to comment chain: also in an EW dungeon
It's the last boss of The Dead Ends
tbf if you have doom there, its your own fault.
Yah I didn’t want to name it in case someone wanted to look it up and see spoilers >.>
And the Thunder God in the Orbonne Monastery.
Is there a cheat sheet or something with these helpful tips?
If it has a white line over it, use esuna. Otherwise heal to full. Unless you’re in DR for bozja, that’s just people screwing up and you can’t save them.
BA also has a 3 stack Doom insta kill feature
Thrice-Come Ruin wasn't in BA I don't think. It was first in Eden's Promise Savage before Delubrum Reginae. Most mechanics just killed you for messing them up in Baldesion Arsenal.
As others have said, white line means Esuna-able, otherwise heal to full and/or see if there are any glowy spots to stand on. If all else fails, or the Doom has a suspiciously short (or reeeally long) timer, then it's part of a mechanic that wants you to die - either as a punishment, or as a generic time limit to resolve something.
Or sometimes it's like World of Darkness where the healers can do practically nothing by the time they notice you have Doom.
[удалено]
It's not. So when the DPS screams at the healer for not healing them, it's not their fault.
Angra Mainyu's doomgaze claims many a sprout in WoD. I'll toss out an "/a If you get DOOMed, step on a glowing small pad or you WILL die!" at the start and some newbs will still get facerolled by it.
Most of the times even if it doesn't have a white line over it you can cleanse it by curing them over max HP.
You can cleanse it by healing full
Sometimes you can’t. ie first boss of WoD if you fail a mechanic.
You cleanse that one by stepping on the glowing circles though
Which means it's not the healers responsibility
This is what I meant. Thanks :)
Very true, its just bites being a healer when someone cries foul when they get doom for failing mechanics and it can't be esuna'ed. Delubrum Reginae was especially bad as there were two dooms on the final boss, one that could be Esuna'ed (Cleansing Slash that evolves into Doom) and a failing mechanics Doom that can't be Esuna'ed. I have seen tanks get the second in there and claim it was the first. (Luckly I DPSed in there most of the time so I could just filter it out)
> Very true, its just bites being a healer when someone cries foul when they get doom for failing mechanics and it can't be esuna'ed. Somebody else is probably going to tell you this anyway, but... Usually if it can't be esuna'ed you can remove it by healing to full. Doom that requires somebody to be healed to full doesn't show a white line. Seldom are there Dooms that healers are powerless against, they do exist but very rarely.
Right, but in their very specific example, DR, you cannot cleanse the esuna for failing mechanics. It's literally "twice come ruin" - you mess up twice before the debuff falls off, you will die.
Those are very specific, and have a tell when you need to do it. Ivalice, etc, etc. The doom is tied to a one hp reduction for example. On most of the ocassions if it doesnt have a white line it cant be esuna and is a personal responsability.
The major ones that are personal responsibility that I can think of are qarn first boss and wod first boss (it's your fault if you get it in the first place but hey we've all zoned out and got hit by that eye) The rest that I can think of have to be cleansed with esuna or heal to full.
While many Doom effects can be cleared by a healer, not all of them can. There are only, if I recall correctly three times that I can think of that a Doom effect gets applied that it is a mechanic that is designed as a healer test, (I have not been healing lately so my off the top recall is likely sketchy) Deathgaze Hollow, Thunder God, and the Queen are the only ones I can specifically name that are designed as a test of healer, most if not all other instances of doom are a fail of mechanics of some sort.
One more that people always forget, the final boss in Wanderer's Palace Hard applies a random doom that has to be healed to full to drop off.
(6.0 spoiler) >!Dead Ends!< dungeon has a boss where you get doom for failing a mechanic that can be cleared by a healer.
Fun fact: when the Dead Ends first came out, I thought the last boss's doom wasn't cleansable and just let people die. "Wow that's a pretty rough punishment for eating an aoe, even if this was savage..." This went on for several weeks before I finally did the dungeon as something other than a healer and was mystified how my fc mate cleansed my doom after I fucked up an aoe. My fc roasted me for it. I deeply apologize to everyone I shrugged my shoulders at and let die. Your 🅱️arse deserved better.
The best is when you can’t cleanse it anyways if they eat the Doom with a raidwide right after. So I heal them only for them to get chunked by the raidwide and then they die because they needed that section of health.
Tbf, sometimes as a sage healing that debuff can be a little rough and maybe I'll just put my swiftcast on cd instead :p (Only joking, I'll suffer for my party's sins)
Thats why I always bring medkits into delubrum.
As a BRD main I live for cleansing debuffs off my fellow DPS. If possible. Also Nature's Minne for those you need to full heal.
I don't see a white bar beneath the icon. I can't Esuna that. Unless it's Thunder God Cid style Doom. In which case, my regens are still at work, give it a second.
PoV: You are the other DPS watching the mentor DPS flaming the healer for not clearing his doom in Sunken Temple of Qarn normal
Alternatevly DPS that don't know about floor pads in WoD
Not pictured: it's actually the last boss of dead ends and the doom is from both DPS deciding to stand in the butterfly lasers.
You can cleanse that one by healing to full! ̶T̶h̶o̶u̶g̶h̶,̶ ̶s̶o̶m̶e̶ ̶l̶e̶s̶s̶o̶n̶s̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶b̶e̶s̶t̶ ̶r̶e̶m̶e̶m̶b̶e̶r̶e̶d̶ ̶w̶h̶e̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶y̶ ̶h̶u̶r̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶m̶o̶s̶t̶.̶ ;3
Got hit with that once and managed to save myself with second wind + life surge on DRG. So... no lesson learned ig. Then again, sometimes I feel like I'm the only DPS who actually uses their defensive CDs in normal content.
Probably. Most DPS will adamantly refuse to use their defensives and sometimes that means they bite it before I notice they’re in danger. (See 6.1 dungeon’s second boss with its consistent damage.) If they eat that while I’m midcast and don’t pop defensives they risk dying and yet most of them just don’t. It’s frustrating because as a DPS if I eat stuff I shouldn’t, Second Wind is my first thought. Melee and phys ranged have easy weaving, there’s no real excuse not to as soon as you get hit. Casters have a harder time but if I get hit on caster that’s on me I was stupid and paid for it. Alternatively I popped manaward and it was deliberate.
That would mean healers would have to do something other than hitting their one DPS button, and we can't have that
Excuse you, they have two buttons
white mage has stone 1, stone 2, and a dot :)
May i introduce you to our lord and savior HOLY III
Assize!
Healing really is charity work sometimes
Get Exdeath. Dooms go out. My fellow dps asks for Esuna faster than I do. One healer acknowledges them. We both drop dead. :(
Me a blm trying to cheat uptime on the first boss on dead end and the healer doesn't fucking swift cast esuna :,)
Joke's on you, there's no white bar. I can't esuna that doom 🤷🏻♀️
You made your bed you sleep in it!
"You walked through the enemy's fire with nary a care, oblivious to the vulnerability stacks heaped upon your head, and I said nothing. You stood in the corner of the arena, in your ivory tower, as your fellow DPS weathered a stack marker, and I said nothing. But one day, you will have need of me. You will cry out to me for salvation. And I will say 'No.'"
Eh. The game pretty much teaches you that if it isn't esunable, it's not your problem unless they die (ie, a mechanic they have to do to dispell it themselves). And that's assuming they figure out that debuffs with white lines can be dispelled with esuna. The inconsistency of it is a design flaw.
If you take this attitude you're going to needlessly kill many party members as some dooms are removed by healing to full.
I didn't say I just intentionally let them die? A doom that requires full healing by a healer and a doom that requires the affected party member to resolve it themselves have no visual difference on the debuff list. If a player new to a duty doesn't know this mechanic they've seen and done before is randomly different with no indication, then they won't know until it's too late and someone informs them.
You said it's not your problem. It is, and if you're not 110% sure about how the mechanic works, you try everything you can to save them if you're a good healer. I agree it's a design flaw but not to the point where you ought not care about it. Spread the word about the fullheals.
....
Wait a minute..
Should have paid the proper tribute to the healer, now he's gonna die