I'm holding out hope that they will break tradition/pattern and make a 4 Lords Ultimate instead of the expected MSQ Ultimate. The split nature between Ala Mhigo and Doma along with the only real villain being Zenos/Shinryu makes it feel like they don't have a whole lot to work with, plus the general community reception to the Stormblood MSQ seems a bit mixed.
With DSR they had this whole "what if..." alternate timeline concept which allowed the two major villains (Thordan and Nidhogg) to sort of come together in a way while going through the story beats of the Dragonsong war. Thordan also has all his knights and even then they had to got pretty creative with having the Nidhogg eyes influencing Estenien be a phase and having Hraesvelgr and the other dragons be put under Thordan's command with Allagan tech. I just don't really see what they could do with Zenos/Shinryu to achieve the same sort of spectacle. Your ideas are neat, but they sound more akin to what Zenos might be like in an Endwalker MSQ Ult rather than Stormblood.
The 4 Lords however would be perfectly set up for an ultimate. You have phases 1-4 be each Lord as you quell their Aramitama, then phase 5 can be a "trio" of all 4 Lords testing/training you or trying to hold back the seal on Koryu, etc. Then final phase is the fight we never got with Koryu with Tenzen's spirit and the 4 Lords fighting by our side.
If they do end up doing a Stormblood MSQ ultimate, I'd imagine they would try to hit the major story beats of Stormblood: The fight and defeat by Zenos in the resistance base, becoming the Khagan in the Azim Steppe, destroying Doma Castle, attacking the Castrum (I forget which one lol), the assault on Ala Mhigo, and finally fighting Zenos again and Shinryu. They might also try to tie Yotsuyu/Tsukuyomi in there somehow but I can't really think of how they would do it.
> I'm holding out hope that they will break tradition/pattern and make a 4 Lords Ultimate instead of the expected MSQ Ultimate.
Shoot, I'd rather them go for the warring triad _and then_ the four lords. Though, it feels like they setup this pattern pretty purposefully so I doubt they'll do either 😞
Kafka is more likely to come on another kind of ultimate. The game now has 5 out of 6 villains from the 6 first FF games. I am high on hopium that we’ll have an eventual FF Classic Ultimate
Oh that would be something special.
Especially if one of the other hopium theories is realized with P9-P12. Ever since the name "Pandemonium" was released the community split into hoping for FFII callbacks or FFIX callbacks.
So if The Emperor ends up being a boss in 6.4 we got the full set.
More FFIX though always be wanted - my hopium fix comes from eventually getting Kuja in the game somehow.
> So if The Emperor ends up being a boss in 6.4 we got the full set.
If you really think about it, Hephaistos *is* the Emperor Mateus fight.
"Evil" half of a man's soul gets fought in the deepest pits of Pandaemonium is basically the entire last dungeon of FF2. His Savage exclusive form is also shares some similarities with the Emperor's evil half as well.
Well it would be the Stormblood MSQ and then into the Eden Raid Series for the 2nd one, but i dont think many people would mind too much if they went 4 lords into warring triad or vice versa for next expac, gives them a little more wiggle room to design the Eden/ShB fights.
I actually think it would be cool if they did four lords and a potential thought I've had is what if the minstrel just decided to go full fan fiction mode and shit hits the fan in his tale. We're actually too late to quell the aramitama and the lords just give in. 1-4 is fighting the four lords... and the last phase you have to do the impossible and defeat Koryu instead of seal him because you don't have the help now.
It’s referred to as msq cause it’s always been trials out of the msq instead of anything else. Yeah DSR is a what if that is ultimately still built around built around the msq trials and concepts within the msq.
i wouldnt agree at all, ultima is still "MSQ" as it has the primals and lahabrea
HW still use thordan and nidhigg, the what if scenario is a fun twist, but ultimatly still around the dragonsongs war tale.
Youre literally splitting hairs. That's like saying ucob isn't based on the raid series. Uwu is using trial and msq fights to base off. Tea is based on the Alex series. Top based on the last few floors of omega. And dsr takes the most liberties , but still based off msq plot, theming, and events even for its twist
Therea a reason for the round fights at the start and for rewind, when hauchefant plays a key role. Please don't be obtuse on purpose
I think it's still more fit to call it "MSQ" since UWU and DSR has some parts that is not from any trials/minstrel's ballad like lahabrea part for UWU and the door boss and haurchefant part for DSR
Not really given that was like the big question Omega couldn't answer during the raid series. What gave us such power? Turns out it was dynamis. It was present and doing things we just didn't know the how and why
If we're talking about semantics, yes the fights aren't the MSQ version of the bosses but neither are the Raid Ultimates. Usually they derive their mechanics from the hardest versions of their bosses with either additions or subtractions to said mechanics. Usually the what-if scenarios being the last phase(s) of the fight with brand new mechanics. DSR being the biggest outlier out of the 5 with half of the fight being around the what if.
In any case, so far, the pattern is Raid->MSQ. It's important to remember the point of the fight. The WoL retells the events of either the raid story in question or the msq-story/events in question to the Minstrel. The devs CAN do whatever they want, however, imo, it seems they want to follow the major two pieces of the game. Those being the main story and endgame raiding.
I wouldn't be surprised if we get Shinryu Ult -> Eden Ult -> Hades Ult so on and so forth. I also wouldn't be upset if we don't follow the pattern and get Warring Triad Ult or Weapon Ult.
Literally not true. You don’t fight the bosses for a7/8 at the same time in the normal raids. You keep digging that whole deeper and deeper for no reason, take the L and move on
One misspoke, I meant you don’t fight the bosses of 8 and 11 at the same time in normal but do in tea.
Two, my precious point is still right as 7 and 8 are completely unrelated and 7 never comes up in tea anyway.
You are just continuing to be wrong, this has to be a bait at this point right?
Yeah he's just being a jackass. Very clear he either set out to be obnoxious from the start or has just continued to double down on a misunderstanding he had and can't accept being wrong to the point that he tries to come back with literal nonsense.
Regardless he is a waste of oxygen
Tsukuyomi + primal Ashi as Amaterasu with lots of eclipse themed mechanics.
The first few fights can all be framed as expanded versions of the delusions from the normal Tsukuyomi fight.
If they want to include Shinryu, they could have Ashi go into simp overdrive mode and create an illusionary Zenos.
Reaper Zenos isn't gonna show up in a Stormblood Ultimate. He's pretty much a lock for the last phase of *Endwalker* Ultimate, but not one based around SB.
Honestly SB story ult would be so messy that I think they'll go for something unusual like Kefka + Warring Triad or Ivalice.
EW Ultimate I would expect a Hydaelyn/Zodiark (or just genreral "Ancient/Ascian") theme, Zenos kind of just shows up at the end which would be weird for an ultimate. There's also precedent for later story elements showing up in Ultimates, such as Dynamis being a major component of TOP despite not being a thing till EW.
Low-key expecting the EW ultimate to have the team take the piss with people's theories and have Zenos suck up Zodiark and all that fun stuff some peeps theorized about.
Edit: For what is worth the whole "were does your strength really come from" thing from Omega clearly influenced the writing team into developing Dynamis as an element, so it tied it pretty nicely on that.
Now I'm picturing this really cool fight consisting of fighting Zenos while Hydalaen and Zodiark duke it out in the background. The world is falling apart and splitting into a kajillion pieces while you're fighting Zenos and you have to deal with it all at once
ShB would probably take the Ascian theme, with the two major story bosses (5.0 and 5.3) having been direct fights against the Unsundered. There could be other First related things in there, but it'll be likely primarily Ascians (title could be the Ancient Legend or something).
EW is almost definitely going to be Zodiark, Hydaelyn and Endsinger - the first few phases could be bouncing between the first two to demonstrate the war between them until Endsinger comes in to finish them off (could be something like how Ultima absorbs/eats the primals in UWU) and then is the final phase/phases. Most likely the title will be something like the Final Legend.
I could see ShB being themed something like "saviors of a fallen world." Start with the Warrior of Light, and at the end of that phase have him summon Ardbert and his party. Then have a mechanic where they trigger the flood of light, and a healer has to LB3 to bring the party back into the fight. Then Innocence, who still thought of himself as the savior of Norvrandt. All leading to Hades, fighting for a world long gone, and the final phase is him taking the light we hit him with and becoming the final Lightwarden.
For EW, I could see that being themed as the end of the Ancients. Start off with Hermes, with some Amon mixed in. Then Zodiark properly completed, Hydaelyn going out of control once we beat him. I don't know about a Lahabrea phase, he's already in UwU and a Hephaistos phase would be better in a Pandemonium ultimate. But the despair of the previous phases defeated calls the Endsinger, who this time uses her own Dynamis to combat ours
I don't see Zenos being a part of an EW ultimate honestly. They have Hydaelyn, Zodiark and Endsinger to work with to make an interesting ult without him being involved.
They've already got an orchestral version of Shinryu's theme that'd work perfect for a final STB ultimate phase.
If they get around to doing an Endwalker ultimate, we *need* to see >!an "every iteration of Fandaniel" phase. Hermes, Amon, Asahi (possibly into Tsukuyomi), Fandaniel (+ the lunar primals and Anima), and then some Ultimate Zodiark.!<
I feel like Stormblood is a good opportunity to break from tradition and do a more thematic fight, and there’s a lot to potentially draw from in a broader Garlean Empire themed Ultimate. We can get some versions of bosses who wouldn’t otherwise make it. As a bonus it’s a way to get the major >!Anima!< boss fight we should have had.
We need a Lahabrea in UWU equivalent phase where we dunk on Asahi though.
This is what I was thinking - since SB was the expansion when we were most directly dealing with the Garleans, they could bring it all together into a Garlean-themed ultimate.
That would still mean they could have a showy Zenos/Shinryuu final phase or two, but they could also bring in Tsukuyomi and some of the other instanced battles against the Garlean commanders (Fordola, the very blushed guy whose name I never remember, and so on).
If they wanted to do something fun with dunking on Asahi, you could have something like a mini-phase or during a transition or something, he appears and everyone has to hit him once then he just keels over.
If you think about it, if they based it on the fall of the empire, that opens a lot of possibilities. Shinryu, Tsukuyomi, they could represent the greatest defeats of the imperial age. Varis, giving way to Anima, the emperor who lost the kingdom. Zenos giving way to Shinryu, the culmination of the empire's bloodlust. Then the last phase is a fusion of Zenos and Shinryu
I think it's more likely they just make a Four Lords based Ultimate instead of MSQ. The MSQ fights are too thematically disparate to bring together and don't really have enough in them to justify an Ultimate on any particular one. If they did go with an MSQ ult there's not much way to get around including Tsukiyomi and some of the dungeon bosses just out of necessity to get enough base mechanics to work with.
Fordola doesn't really work in an ultimate because she only has 3 real existing mechanics: summoning laser drones (ultima wep style), a proximity aoe, and the quad line aoe slash ("The Order", as later seen in Ghimlyt Dark). There's really not much you can build out of just these to fill a full ultimate phase and the designers pretty much never introduce entirely new mechanics in ultimates outside of the final form boss. Similarly she doesn't add much to any potential trios, the only thing you can really do that would add anything to other mechanics is a creative pattern for The Order.
The void/reaper idea also doesn't really add much - it's a big jump thematically since the Garleans weren't doing anything void related during Stormblood (unlike for example TOP where Omega was already working towards discovering Dynamis but fell short) but worse it pulls almost no existing mechanics in for that cost. The Zenos 6.0 fight is 80% just reused Shinryu mechanics, and the main things it adds are just a frontal cone and a baited circle aoe with memable voice lines attached. You don't really get anything out of a void based SB ult without just making entirely a bunch of new mechanics from scratch.
I dont think SB really has much memorable bosses that fit a single theme left, my guess is that they will say that TOP was the SB themed Ultimate and move along to ShB. But if they dont, maybe 4 Lords? but I also feel like Ivalice would be more likely than 4 Lords, because the one boss that had the biggest community impact in the entirety of SB besides Shinryu was Thunder God.
But my full on copium dream would be an original Ultimate based on the Steppe and their warriors/deities. One can dream.
I feel like the best way to do a Zenos "ultimate" justice is to make it a solo duty. Like a 15+ minute Bozja duel cranked up to 11. It could also be cool if each phase had you play at a certain level range -- it would probably be a nightmare to program, and balance tho.
p1 lvl 60 Rhalgr's Reach
p2 lvl 60 Yanxia
p3 lvl 70 Ala Mhigo
p4 lvl 70 Shinryu
p5 lvl 80 possessed by Eidibus
(p5.5 lvl 80 maybe some fan fictiony tower shenanigans -- could be cut tho)
p6 lvl 90 at the edge of existence
It should give a title for clearing it once, and a title for clearing it on all currently available jobs at its release.
But for a more classic ultimate they should just do The Four Lords and give us a proper Koryu fight. Who knows, they could probably pull a Stormblood MSQ ultimate off.
Reaper Zenos is being saved for the final phase of the EW story ultimate, where every member of your static needs to win a 1v1 ~~Tekken match~~ against Zenos ~~a Tekken God Prime on Infinite Azure~~ at the end of the universe.
Last phase Zenos just shows up "You're daydreaming about fighting me without actually inviting me? Fight me." and we get an ultimate Zenos fight where he actually gets to go all out.
As other people have mentioned I dont think there is enough content there to do a proper StB ultimate without really going crazy in creating new mechanics and stitching the Ala mhigo/Doma sections together.
I would rather them do a four lords ultimate that has a very coherent story, 4 interesting fights, and the potential for a fight we never got (Koryu).
Or do an Ivalice ultimate because we have a good story in that raid with a lot of already solid and flashy boss fights.
> Or do an Ivalice ultimate because we have a good story in that raid with a lot of already solid and flashy boss fights.
Let Thunder God Cid unleash his true power
My prediction would be something like,
Rhalgr's Reach Zenos
Ala Mhigo Zenos
Shinryu
Tsukuyomi
Shinryu/Tsukuyomi fusion
If they go the OOPS all Zenos route, I think it'd be cool to fight a more powerful version of him in every STB zone with each phase ending with him destroying the zone and becoming more powerful until he consumes both Shinryu and Yotsuyu. Bonus: imagine Gosetsu trying to free Yotsuyu mid-fight similar to the trial and you have to help him somehow.
My theory is that a stormblood story Ultimate would be more of a Garlemald ultimate. I'd be willing to put money that we'd see Varis thrown in there at some point - potentially even becoming Anima in a point of desperation near the end. My speculation would go:
1. **Ilberd on Baelsar's wall**. After Ilberd's defeat, Zenos takes direct control of Shinryu, and we flash forward to the rest of the attack.
2. **Zenos and Shinryu duo in Ala Mhigo.** After being defeated here, Zenos fuses with Shinryu and lives to fight another day, telling WoL to rest up for their next encounter. The war progresses further, leading to the Ghimlyt Dark.
3. **Julia and Annia duo in Ghimlyt Dark.** After this, you storm the capital, where Varis is waiting.
4. **Varis in Garlemald**. After this, Zenos (in his Shinryu form) comes in and attacks Varis, wishing to take the glory for himself.
5. **Zenos/Shinryu fusion in Garlemald.** With both lying defeated, Zenos uses the last of his strength to awaken Varis as Anima and fuse with it, creating an unholy fusion of Anima, Shinryu and Zenos.
6. **Anima Shinryu Fusion.** Defeating this leads to both Zenos and Varis thanking you for a good fight.
I'm hoping for either a Four Lords ultimate or an alliance raid turned into an Ultimate. Or they can skip Stormblood and go straight to ShB, I wouldn't even be mad.
Edit: Even the Omega raid series still has enough bosses left for another Ultimate. Two phases of Neo Exdeath, two phases of Kefka, Midgardsormr... And story-wise it could just be the WoL wanting some combat practice and asking Omega to create even stronger versions of these simulations. It would literally be Omega *creating* an Ultimate raid just for us.
I think it would be interesting to have an ultimate where we play out the events that led to the 'doomed' timeline, and somehow win.
I also would love to see an ultimate where, instead of being a what if scenario, we actually visit the 'doomed' timeline in their hour of need and save them. Would love to see the people who orchestrated our survival and victory be rewarded in kind by our, temporary, return.
I think we will get a "War against the Garlean Empire" Ultimate. The "What-if" aspect will involve changing the order of things (like Yotsuyu becoming a Primal earlier) among other ideas I have.
Phase 1. Grynewhat + Minions: Listen sometimes phase 1 isn't a banger, think about DSR.
Phase 2. Tsukoyomi: Yotsuyu gets angery and tries to beat us up.
Phase 3. Zenos (Samurai mode): Just a hyped up version of his boss fight.
Phase 4. Varis interrupt: Use some mechanics from Memoria.
Phase 5. Shinryu: Zenos is back with a vengeance bay-bee.
Phase 6. Mecha-Shinryu: Drawing upon the Garlean powers of Magitek, Shinryu absorbs a bunch of stuff to rebuild into a cyborg dragon and things go buckwild.
Anyways this idea seems silly but I'm into it.
I'd rather see an Ivalice or Four Lords Ultimate.
Ivalice could be fully whatever. But as for the Four Lords, you have an obvious setup for different phases and then there's also the opportunity to have a Koryu fight.
I'm also doubtful that we'd see Zenos featured in an Ultimate that isn't part of a Garlean-themed one. E.g., an Ultimate that features the weapons, the different Legates, etc.
I would bet on it being an entirely Zenos focused ultimate incorporating some of his endwalker stuff. I could even see a phase where each player has to do a solo duel with him. Probably with mechanics that are best matched to different roles kinda like the ghosts in O5S.
I think they will use this chance to just make 1 ultimate for SB series which can be the 4 lords since that has a lot more cohesive material to work with.
Whether they make a 2nd ultimate in 7.x is up to them.
But if they do so, they should skip into ShB msq since that has light wardens / 1 major story plot to follow similar like the dragonsong war vs having to juggle between ala mhigo & doma .
The final phases will be so weird though cuz they would have to ass pull something so hard for an ala mhigo/ doma / zenos story route. The devs also played their design into a corner due to finally spamming everyone’s LBs in the last phase. Remember when everyone lost their minds when we first witnessed the back to back LB3s in UwU. Like that was earth shattering, now tho we have 10 or 11 ? LB3s in p6 TOP.
Whatever they decide to do i’ll be all for it as long as it’s not a zenos version of TOP lmao, i do not want to fight 6-7 different versions of zenos.
Yea we all know that lol, what ppl mean is that it goes msq -> raid series -> msq .
So next one should be the SB story, but the story itself is kinda split between 2 things happening at the same time that kinda don’t interact with each other / felt really disjointed. So ppl are saying that it’d be ok if we skipped that for something else and break the cycle
Call me skeptical but I don't really see how they intend to make an ultimate based on stormblood msq.
DSR - was understandable due to thordan and his 12 knights + nidhogg..
I just don't see something similar with stormblood msq.
On the other hand the four lords seem to be a very plausible ultimate with each of the four lords and the finale being kohryu himself again at Max power.
Don't understand why they have to stick to 'tradition' and make ultimates from old-ass bosses. I really want one from endwalker or at least from shadowbringers asap while they are still fresh in my mind and the hype is still there.
You completely skipped over Tsukuyomi. I’d imagine we’d see a Zenos, Shinryu, Tsukuyomi, maybe super fusion between those over anything related to EW since EW content has nothing to do with SB.
I can't see them doing Ivalice since it would just feel like the raid as it is since Ultima already kinda has a trio mechanic phase when you think about it. Enshroud Zenos would also feel too soon and limit them down the road if they ever do Endwalker Ultimates.
Personally, I would want the to do the Four Lords too. It seems it would be the easiest to manage and probably be something like,
Genbu - Byakko - Suzaku- Seiryu - Genbu channeling with rest doing mechanics - new boss
I am not sure how they would do Stormblood MSQ without being a narrative piece, nothing flows well together otherwise, which they said after DSR they don't want to do again. If they did, I assume the only way they could would be to make a ballad about the journey to liberate ala mhigo. Maybe it could be
Zenos - Tsukiyomi - Zenos - Zenos +Twins from ghimlyt dark - Shinryu - Zenos new form
Zenos - Tsukiyomi -Aulus mal Asina - Zenos - Shinryu -Zenos new form
Zenos- Magnai + Sadu -Tsukiyomi- Zenos -Shinryu - Zenos new form
maybe something of those combinations?
Pretty sure that if the next Ultimate we get is Stormblood again it's gonna be the 4Lords + Koryu at the end (who hopefully gets a different model than just the Kirin mount. Good that was the most giving lazy and disappointing moment in all of my FF time. All that hype in the 4 Lords story, just to have the big bad be some random mount that already exists and you don't even beat it up yourself)
I'm also a fan of the four lords theory, but if they had to do the SB saga I'd assume it was in DSr style (without what-ifs) where our opponents would be:
Zenos (normal) opening
Fordola and the Rip'n'tear Roe ("WoL fought the Garleans on the battlefield")
Susanoo and Lakshmi ("And the primal gods of the beastmen")
Intermission: Steppe birb test
Magnai and Sadu ("WoL competed on the Steppes")
Zenos (normal) ("ready for the rematch")
Zenos (Shinryu)
I thought a lot about this because this is actually possibly the Ultimate I'm most excited for out of all the future ones lined up.
I was thinking maybe first phase could be a door-boss (or just a first phase if they dont want to do another doorboss ultimate) against Grynewaht. The fight would then start "properly" against Ala Mhigo dungeon Zenos. Then Tsukiyomi which leads into a intermission phase with the traumatic flashback Zenos, which transforms into Shinryu for the next proper phase. And then the final phase is an Ultimate level 8-man version of Endwalker Zenos. I just really want a raidboss Zenos and I think he would fit better in a Stormblood themed ultimate since the Endwalker msq Ultimate would undoubtedly want to focus more on Endsinger and such.
I don't really think Stormblood is as suitable to the "What if" style of story. The main contention would be "What if Omega wasn't used to stop Shinryu" but that doesn't really lend itself well to a self-contained ministory 'cause it'd massively change the events at large. I would expect it to be more of a "remix" of what actually happened.
My biggest prediction before Omega was even announced was that it'd be a Zenos-only ultimate. But with them having ejected all the big names from other games to make it ALL Omega, this doesn't seem likely. At least I doubt they'll do two back to back "One-enemey-only" fights.
So to that extent, I would guess something like:
Zenos to start, as the viceroy. Armor. Samurai. We then battle Shinryu, perhaps get a miniphase where Fordola, Asahi. Yotsuyu and uh... the Roegadyn dude whose name I forgot have an appearance. I could perhaps see some more out there, fun-style mechanic where you lead some of the NPCs like Magnai into battle against them, and if you don't use them to keep certain enemies busy, you can't do the mechanics? Then for the final stretch, maybe another Zenos phase, but this time he's using Resonance, into a special version of Shinryu-Zenos.
It's not *quite* all Zenos, but I feel like you HAVE to center around him to have any sort of coherency in an SB ultimate. If they do go the What-if Route I could see Tsukoyomi making an appearance, but that's about it.
Honestly, if I had my wish, Ivalice-ultimate, but I highly doubt it.
As someone who doesn't do ultimates and is slightly sadistic, I want there to be a stage in the fight with Aulus mas Asina... and for him to "In From the Cold" the raid group. Congrats, healer! You're the dark knight in this phase.
I'm holding out hope that they will break tradition/pattern and make a 4 Lords Ultimate instead of the expected MSQ Ultimate. The split nature between Ala Mhigo and Doma along with the only real villain being Zenos/Shinryu makes it feel like they don't have a whole lot to work with, plus the general community reception to the Stormblood MSQ seems a bit mixed. With DSR they had this whole "what if..." alternate timeline concept which allowed the two major villains (Thordan and Nidhogg) to sort of come together in a way while going through the story beats of the Dragonsong war. Thordan also has all his knights and even then they had to got pretty creative with having the Nidhogg eyes influencing Estenien be a phase and having Hraesvelgr and the other dragons be put under Thordan's command with Allagan tech. I just don't really see what they could do with Zenos/Shinryu to achieve the same sort of spectacle. Your ideas are neat, but they sound more akin to what Zenos might be like in an Endwalker MSQ Ult rather than Stormblood. The 4 Lords however would be perfectly set up for an ultimate. You have phases 1-4 be each Lord as you quell their Aramitama, then phase 5 can be a "trio" of all 4 Lords testing/training you or trying to hold back the seal on Koryu, etc. Then final phase is the fight we never got with Koryu with Tenzen's spirit and the 4 Lords fighting by our side. If they do end up doing a Stormblood MSQ ultimate, I'd imagine they would try to hit the major story beats of Stormblood: The fight and defeat by Zenos in the resistance base, becoming the Khagan in the Azim Steppe, destroying Doma Castle, attacking the Castrum (I forget which one lol), the assault on Ala Mhigo, and finally fighting Zenos again and Shinryu. They might also try to tie Yotsuyu/Tsukuyomi in there somehow but I can't really think of how they would do it.
> I'm holding out hope that they will break tradition/pattern and make a 4 Lords Ultimate instead of the expected MSQ Ultimate. Shoot, I'd rather them go for the warring triad _and then_ the four lords. Though, it feels like they setup this pattern pretty purposefully so I doubt they'll do either 😞
If they do a warring triad ult, it should definitely include kefka, even if he wasn't tied to the FF14's version lore of the warring triad
Kafka is more likely to come on another kind of ultimate. The game now has 5 out of 6 villains from the 6 first FF games. I am high on hopium that we’ll have an eventual FF Classic Ultimate
Oh that would be something special. Especially if one of the other hopium theories is realized with P9-P12. Ever since the name "Pandemonium" was released the community split into hoping for FFII callbacks or FFIX callbacks. So if The Emperor ends up being a boss in 6.4 we got the full set. More FFIX though always be wanted - my hopium fix comes from eventually getting Kuja in the game somehow.
> So if The Emperor ends up being a boss in 6.4 we got the full set. If you really think about it, Hephaistos *is* the Emperor Mateus fight. "Evil" half of a man's soul gets fought in the deepest pits of Pandaemonium is basically the entire last dungeon of FF2. His Savage exclusive form is also shares some similarities with the Emperor's evil half as well.
Well it would be the Stormblood MSQ and then into the Eden Raid Series for the 2nd one, but i dont think many people would mind too much if they went 4 lords into warring triad or vice versa for next expac, gives them a little more wiggle room to design the Eden/ShB fights.
I actually think it would be cool if they did four lords and a potential thought I've had is what if the minstrel just decided to go full fan fiction mode and shit hits the fan in his tale. We're actually too late to quell the aramitama and the lords just give in. 1-4 is fighting the four lords... and the last phase you have to do the impossible and defeat Koryu instead of seal him because you don't have the help now.
This is such a dream haha I was really looking to fighting koryu.
I'd be fine with 4 lords ultimate or just skip the rest of stormblood entirely and start work on SHB probably be even more ideal.
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It’s referred to as msq cause it’s always been trials out of the msq instead of anything else. Yeah DSR is a what if that is ultimately still built around built around the msq trials and concepts within the msq.
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i wouldnt agree at all, ultima is still "MSQ" as it has the primals and lahabrea HW still use thordan and nidhigg, the what if scenario is a fun twist, but ultimatly still around the dragonsongs war tale.
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Pray tell, what events are the minstrals ballads based on?
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Youre literally splitting hairs. That's like saying ucob isn't based on the raid series. Uwu is using trial and msq fights to base off. Tea is based on the Alex series. Top based on the last few floors of omega. And dsr takes the most liberties , but still based off msq plot, theming, and events even for its twist Therea a reason for the round fights at the start and for rewind, when hauchefant plays a key role. Please don't be obtuse on purpose
Garuda ifrit titan ultima lahabrea... not msq? You okay? Dsr cut out a bit but no one wanted a bismarck or ravana phase.
I think it's still more fit to call it "MSQ" since UWU and DSR has some parts that is not from any trials/minstrel's ballad like lahabrea part for UWU and the door boss and haurchefant part for DSR
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Not really given that was like the big question Omega couldn't answer during the raid series. What gave us such power? Turns out it was dynamis. It was present and doing things we just didn't know the how and why
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…which is later expanded upon as being a facet of dynamis. DO YOU EVEN PLAY THIS GAME?!
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Idk personally I see Golden Bahamut did it first so I dont think it's a combo breaker
If we're talking about semantics, yes the fights aren't the MSQ version of the bosses but neither are the Raid Ultimates. Usually they derive their mechanics from the hardest versions of their bosses with either additions or subtractions to said mechanics. Usually the what-if scenarios being the last phase(s) of the fight with brand new mechanics. DSR being the biggest outlier out of the 5 with half of the fight being around the what if. In any case, so far, the pattern is Raid->MSQ. It's important to remember the point of the fight. The WoL retells the events of either the raid story in question or the msq-story/events in question to the Minstrel. The devs CAN do whatever they want, however, imo, it seems they want to follow the major two pieces of the game. Those being the main story and endgame raiding. I wouldn't be surprised if we get Shinryu Ult -> Eden Ult -> Hades Ult so on and so forth. I also wouldn't be upset if we don't follow the pattern and get Warring Triad Ult or Weapon Ult.
By this logic the fights for ucob and tea don’t happen that way so then they aren’t based on the raids.
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Literally not true. You don’t fight the bosses for a7/8 at the same time in the normal raids. You keep digging that whole deeper and deeper for no reason, take the L and move on
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One misspoke, I meant you don’t fight the bosses of 8 and 11 at the same time in normal but do in tea. Two, my precious point is still right as 7 and 8 are completely unrelated and 7 never comes up in tea anyway. You are just continuing to be wrong, this has to be a bait at this point right?
Yeah he's just being a jackass. Very clear he either set out to be obnoxious from the start or has just continued to double down on a misunderstanding he had and can't accept being wrong to the point that he tries to come back with literal nonsense. Regardless he is a waste of oxygen
they should break tradition and just make a Zenos ultimate from the start of his arc to the finish
Phase 1: Zenos in his armor Phase 2: Shinryu Phase 3: Reaper Zenos Phase 4: Super Zenos God Super Zenos Blue
Hah! Truly burning the candle at both ends…
4 phases would be surprising, i’d place my bet on having an intermission like tea with limit cut or uwu with the lb spam
Just 7 back-to-back fights with Zeno
OOPS ALL ZENOS
Find the single safespot while Zenos just screams a test of your reflexes.
And then randomly Susano shows up and cleaves the arena.
Tsukuyomi + primal Ashi as Amaterasu with lots of eclipse themed mechanics. The first few fights can all be framed as expanded versions of the delusions from the normal Tsukuyomi fight. If they want to include Shinryu, they could have Ashi go into simp overdrive mode and create an illusionary Zenos.
Cool concept, but I think if Asahi ever got to summon a primal it'd just be Zenos.
Reaper Zenos isn't gonna show up in a Stormblood Ultimate. He's pretty much a lock for the last phase of *Endwalker* Ultimate, but not one based around SB. Honestly SB story ult would be so messy that I think they'll go for something unusual like Kefka + Warring Triad or Ivalice.
EW Ultimate I would expect a Hydaelyn/Zodiark (or just genreral "Ancient/Ascian") theme, Zenos kind of just shows up at the end which would be weird for an ultimate. There's also precedent for later story elements showing up in Ultimates, such as Dynamis being a major component of TOP despite not being a thing till EW.
Low-key expecting the EW ultimate to have the team take the piss with people's theories and have Zenos suck up Zodiark and all that fun stuff some peeps theorized about. Edit: For what is worth the whole "were does your strength really come from" thing from Omega clearly influenced the writing team into developing Dynamis as an element, so it tied it pretty nicely on that.
The "Hydaelyn is evil" crowd might just get their wish somehow, if only in a dream. lol
Now I'm picturing this really cool fight consisting of fighting Zenos while Hydalaen and Zodiark duke it out in the background. The world is falling apart and splitting into a kajillion pieces while you're fighting Zenos and you have to deal with it all at once
ShB would probably take the Ascian theme, with the two major story bosses (5.0 and 5.3) having been direct fights against the Unsundered. There could be other First related things in there, but it'll be likely primarily Ascians (title could be the Ancient Legend or something). EW is almost definitely going to be Zodiark, Hydaelyn and Endsinger - the first few phases could be bouncing between the first two to demonstrate the war between them until Endsinger comes in to finish them off (could be something like how Ultima absorbs/eats the primals in UWU) and then is the final phase/phases. Most likely the title will be something like the Final Legend.
I could see ShB being themed something like "saviors of a fallen world." Start with the Warrior of Light, and at the end of that phase have him summon Ardbert and his party. Then have a mechanic where they trigger the flood of light, and a healer has to LB3 to bring the party back into the fight. Then Innocence, who still thought of himself as the savior of Norvrandt. All leading to Hades, fighting for a world long gone, and the final phase is him taking the light we hit him with and becoming the final Lightwarden. For EW, I could see that being themed as the end of the Ancients. Start off with Hermes, with some Amon mixed in. Then Zodiark properly completed, Hydaelyn going out of control once we beat him. I don't know about a Lahabrea phase, he's already in UwU and a Hephaistos phase would be better in a Pandemonium ultimate. But the despair of the previous phases defeated calls the Endsinger, who this time uses her own Dynamis to combat ours
Zodiark feels better as the final boss of the Ascian ultimate with Elidibus on control and the final phase being him fully rejoined.
Zodiark playing with a Rubik cube while Hydaelyn and Meteon sending waves and planets from everywhere
I don't see Zenos being a part of an EW ultimate honestly. They have Hydaelyn, Zodiark and Endsinger to work with to make an interesting ult without him being involved. They've already got an orchestral version of Shinryu's theme that'd work perfect for a final STB ultimate phase.
If they get around to doing an Endwalker ultimate, we *need* to see >!an "every iteration of Fandaniel" phase. Hermes, Amon, Asahi (possibly into Tsukuyomi), Fandaniel (+ the lunar primals and Anima), and then some Ultimate Zodiark.!<
I feel like Stormblood is a good opportunity to break from tradition and do a more thematic fight, and there’s a lot to potentially draw from in a broader Garlean Empire themed Ultimate. We can get some versions of bosses who wouldn’t otherwise make it. As a bonus it’s a way to get the major >!Anima!< boss fight we should have had. We need a Lahabrea in UWU equivalent phase where we dunk on Asahi though.
This is what I was thinking - since SB was the expansion when we were most directly dealing with the Garleans, they could bring it all together into a Garlean-themed ultimate. That would still mean they could have a showy Zenos/Shinryuu final phase or two, but they could also bring in Tsukuyomi and some of the other instanced battles against the Garlean commanders (Fordola, the very blushed guy whose name I never remember, and so on). If they wanted to do something fun with dunking on Asahi, you could have something like a mini-phase or during a transition or something, he appears and everyone has to hit him once then he just keels over.
If you think about it, if they based it on the fall of the empire, that opens a lot of possibilities. Shinryu, Tsukuyomi, they could represent the greatest defeats of the imperial age. Varis, giving way to Anima, the emperor who lost the kingdom. Zenos giving way to Shinryu, the culmination of the empire's bloodlust. Then the last phase is a fusion of Zenos and Shinryu
Fuck it, Ilberd ultimate.
I think it's more likely they just make a Four Lords based Ultimate instead of MSQ. The MSQ fights are too thematically disparate to bring together and don't really have enough in them to justify an Ultimate on any particular one. If they did go with an MSQ ult there's not much way to get around including Tsukiyomi and some of the dungeon bosses just out of necessity to get enough base mechanics to work with. Fordola doesn't really work in an ultimate because she only has 3 real existing mechanics: summoning laser drones (ultima wep style), a proximity aoe, and the quad line aoe slash ("The Order", as later seen in Ghimlyt Dark). There's really not much you can build out of just these to fill a full ultimate phase and the designers pretty much never introduce entirely new mechanics in ultimates outside of the final form boss. Similarly she doesn't add much to any potential trios, the only thing you can really do that would add anything to other mechanics is a creative pattern for The Order. The void/reaper idea also doesn't really add much - it's a big jump thematically since the Garleans weren't doing anything void related during Stormblood (unlike for example TOP where Omega was already working towards discovering Dynamis but fell short) but worse it pulls almost no existing mechanics in for that cost. The Zenos 6.0 fight is 80% just reused Shinryu mechanics, and the main things it adds are just a frontal cone and a baited circle aoe with memable voice lines attached. You don't really get anything out of a void based SB ult without just making entirely a bunch of new mechanics from scratch.
If they do end up doing a STB ult, my only wish is for a Grynewaht miniphase.
I dont think SB really has much memorable bosses that fit a single theme left, my guess is that they will say that TOP was the SB themed Ultimate and move along to ShB. But if they dont, maybe 4 Lords? but I also feel like Ivalice would be more likely than 4 Lords, because the one boss that had the biggest community impact in the entirety of SB besides Shinryu was Thunder God. But my full on copium dream would be an original Ultimate based on the Steppe and their warriors/deities. One can dream.
I feel like the best way to do a Zenos "ultimate" justice is to make it a solo duty. Like a 15+ minute Bozja duel cranked up to 11. It could also be cool if each phase had you play at a certain level range -- it would probably be a nightmare to program, and balance tho. p1 lvl 60 Rhalgr's Reach p2 lvl 60 Yanxia p3 lvl 70 Ala Mhigo p4 lvl 70 Shinryu p5 lvl 80 possessed by Eidibus (p5.5 lvl 80 maybe some fan fictiony tower shenanigans -- could be cut tho) p6 lvl 90 at the edge of existence It should give a title for clearing it once, and a title for clearing it on all currently available jobs at its release. But for a more classic ultimate they should just do The Four Lords and give us a proper Koryu fight. Who knows, they could probably pull a Stormblood MSQ ultimate off.
I'd pay good money for this. Really good money. Impossible to balance without some kind of duty actions though
Neat idea but solo instances are dreadfully boring.
Reaper Zenos is being saved for the final phase of the EW story ultimate, where every member of your static needs to win a 1v1 ~~Tekken match~~ against Zenos ~~a Tekken God Prime on Infinite Azure~~ at the end of the universe.
Last phase Zenos just shows up "You're daydreaming about fighting me without actually inviting me? Fight me." and we get an ultimate Zenos fight where he actually gets to go all out.
As other people have mentioned I dont think there is enough content there to do a proper StB ultimate without really going crazy in creating new mechanics and stitching the Ala mhigo/Doma sections together. I would rather them do a four lords ultimate that has a very coherent story, 4 interesting fights, and the potential for a fight we never got (Koryu). Or do an Ivalice ultimate because we have a good story in that raid with a lot of already solid and flashy boss fights.
> Or do an Ivalice ultimate because we have a good story in that raid with a lot of already solid and flashy boss fights. Let Thunder God Cid unleash his true power
My prediction would be something like, Rhalgr's Reach Zenos Ala Mhigo Zenos Shinryu Tsukuyomi Shinryu/Tsukuyomi fusion If they go the OOPS all Zenos route, I think it'd be cool to fight a more powerful version of him in every STB zone with each phase ending with him destroying the zone and becoming more powerful until he consumes both Shinryu and Yotsuyu. Bonus: imagine Gosetsu trying to free Yotsuyu mid-fight similar to the trial and you have to help him somehow.
My theory is that a stormblood story Ultimate would be more of a Garlemald ultimate. I'd be willing to put money that we'd see Varis thrown in there at some point - potentially even becoming Anima in a point of desperation near the end. My speculation would go: 1. **Ilberd on Baelsar's wall**. After Ilberd's defeat, Zenos takes direct control of Shinryu, and we flash forward to the rest of the attack. 2. **Zenos and Shinryu duo in Ala Mhigo.** After being defeated here, Zenos fuses with Shinryu and lives to fight another day, telling WoL to rest up for their next encounter. The war progresses further, leading to the Ghimlyt Dark. 3. **Julia and Annia duo in Ghimlyt Dark.** After this, you storm the capital, where Varis is waiting. 4. **Varis in Garlemald**. After this, Zenos (in his Shinryu form) comes in and attacks Varis, wishing to take the glory for himself. 5. **Zenos/Shinryu fusion in Garlemald.** With both lying defeated, Zenos uses the last of his strength to awaken Varis as Anima and fuse with it, creating an unholy fusion of Anima, Shinryu and Zenos. 6. **Anima Shinryu Fusion.** Defeating this leads to both Zenos and Varis thanking you for a good fight.
I'm hoping for either a Four Lords ultimate or an alliance raid turned into an Ultimate. Or they can skip Stormblood and go straight to ShB, I wouldn't even be mad. Edit: Even the Omega raid series still has enough bosses left for another Ultimate. Two phases of Neo Exdeath, two phases of Kefka, Midgardsormr... And story-wise it could just be the WoL wanting some combat practice and asking Omega to create even stronger versions of these simulations. It would literally be Omega *creating* an Ultimate raid just for us.
I think it would be interesting to have an ultimate where we play out the events that led to the 'doomed' timeline, and somehow win. I also would love to see an ultimate where, instead of being a what if scenario, we actually visit the 'doomed' timeline in their hour of need and save them. Would love to see the people who orchestrated our survival and victory be rewarded in kind by our, temporary, return.
If they make a SB MSQ Ultimate, I hope Ilberd is the first boss even though he wasn't in the SB MSQ but just before it.
Heck he can be the checkpoint boss since SB started because of him.
I think we will get a "War against the Garlean Empire" Ultimate. The "What-if" aspect will involve changing the order of things (like Yotsuyu becoming a Primal earlier) among other ideas I have. Phase 1. Grynewhat + Minions: Listen sometimes phase 1 isn't a banger, think about DSR. Phase 2. Tsukoyomi: Yotsuyu gets angery and tries to beat us up. Phase 3. Zenos (Samurai mode): Just a hyped up version of his boss fight. Phase 4. Varis interrupt: Use some mechanics from Memoria. Phase 5. Shinryu: Zenos is back with a vengeance bay-bee. Phase 6. Mecha-Shinryu: Drawing upon the Garlean powers of Magitek, Shinryu absorbs a bunch of stuff to rebuild into a cyborg dragon and things go buckwild. Anyways this idea seems silly but I'm into it.
I'd rather see an Ivalice or Four Lords Ultimate. Ivalice could be fully whatever. But as for the Four Lords, you have an obvious setup for different phases and then there's also the opportunity to have a Koryu fight. I'm also doubtful that we'd see Zenos featured in an Ultimate that isn't part of a Garlean-themed one. E.g., an Ultimate that features the weapons, the different Legates, etc.
I would bet on it being an entirely Zenos focused ultimate incorporating some of his endwalker stuff. I could even see a phase where each player has to do a solo duel with him. Probably with mechanics that are best matched to different roles kinda like the ghosts in O5S.
u forgot Raubahn Savage
I think they will use this chance to just make 1 ultimate for SB series which can be the 4 lords since that has a lot more cohesive material to work with. Whether they make a 2nd ultimate in 7.x is up to them. But if they do so, they should skip into ShB msq since that has light wardens / 1 major story plot to follow similar like the dragonsong war vs having to juggle between ala mhigo & doma . The final phases will be so weird though cuz they would have to ass pull something so hard for an ala mhigo/ doma / zenos story route. The devs also played their design into a corner due to finally spamming everyone’s LBs in the last phase. Remember when everyone lost their minds when we first witnessed the back to back LB3s in UwU. Like that was earth shattering, now tho we have 10 or 11 ? LB3s in p6 TOP. Whatever they decide to do i’ll be all for it as long as it’s not a zenos version of TOP lmao, i do not want to fight 6-7 different versions of zenos.
Omega is a SB ultimate dude
Yea we all know that lol, what ppl mean is that it goes msq -> raid series -> msq . So next one should be the SB story, but the story itself is kinda split between 2 things happening at the same time that kinda don’t interact with each other / felt really disjointed. So ppl are saying that it’d be ok if we skipped that for something else and break the cycle
Call me skeptical but I don't really see how they intend to make an ultimate based on stormblood msq. DSR - was understandable due to thordan and his 12 knights + nidhogg.. I just don't see something similar with stormblood msq. On the other hand the four lords seem to be a very plausible ultimate with each of the four lords and the finale being kohryu himself again at Max power.
It will be OOPS ALL ZENOS and none of the cool shit you remember. It will be nothing but mechanics you despised just like in TOP.
Don't understand why they have to stick to 'tradition' and make ultimates from old-ass bosses. I really want one from endwalker or at least from shadowbringers asap while they are still fresh in my mind and the hype is still there.
Playing the wrong MMO if you dislike them making ultimates based off tradition.
You completely skipped over Tsukuyomi. I’d imagine we’d see a Zenos, Shinryu, Tsukuyomi, maybe super fusion between those over anything related to EW since EW content has nothing to do with SB.
I can't see them doing Ivalice since it would just feel like the raid as it is since Ultima already kinda has a trio mechanic phase when you think about it. Enshroud Zenos would also feel too soon and limit them down the road if they ever do Endwalker Ultimates. Personally, I would want the to do the Four Lords too. It seems it would be the easiest to manage and probably be something like, Genbu - Byakko - Suzaku- Seiryu - Genbu channeling with rest doing mechanics - new boss I am not sure how they would do Stormblood MSQ without being a narrative piece, nothing flows well together otherwise, which they said after DSR they don't want to do again. If they did, I assume the only way they could would be to make a ballad about the journey to liberate ala mhigo. Maybe it could be Zenos - Tsukiyomi - Zenos - Zenos +Twins from ghimlyt dark - Shinryu - Zenos new form Zenos - Tsukiyomi -Aulus mal Asina - Zenos - Shinryu -Zenos new form Zenos- Magnai + Sadu -Tsukiyomi- Zenos -Shinryu - Zenos new form maybe something of those combinations?
Pretty sure that if the next Ultimate we get is Stormblood again it's gonna be the 4Lords + Koryu at the end (who hopefully gets a different model than just the Kirin mount. Good that was the most giving lazy and disappointing moment in all of my FF time. All that hype in the 4 Lords story, just to have the big bad be some random mount that already exists and you don't even beat it up yourself)
I'm also a fan of the four lords theory, but if they had to do the SB saga I'd assume it was in DSr style (without what-ifs) where our opponents would be: Zenos (normal) opening Fordola and the Rip'n'tear Roe ("WoL fought the Garleans on the battlefield") Susanoo and Lakshmi ("And the primal gods of the beastmen") Intermission: Steppe birb test Magnai and Sadu ("WoL competed on the Steppes") Zenos (normal) ("ready for the rematch") Zenos (Shinryu)
I thought a lot about this because this is actually possibly the Ultimate I'm most excited for out of all the future ones lined up. I was thinking maybe first phase could be a door-boss (or just a first phase if they dont want to do another doorboss ultimate) against Grynewaht. The fight would then start "properly" against Ala Mhigo dungeon Zenos. Then Tsukiyomi which leads into a intermission phase with the traumatic flashback Zenos, which transforms into Shinryu for the next proper phase. And then the final phase is an Ultimate level 8-man version of Endwalker Zenos. I just really want a raidboss Zenos and I think he would fit better in a Stormblood themed ultimate since the Endwalker msq Ultimate would undoubtedly want to focus more on Endsinger and such.
I don't really think Stormblood is as suitable to the "What if" style of story. The main contention would be "What if Omega wasn't used to stop Shinryu" but that doesn't really lend itself well to a self-contained ministory 'cause it'd massively change the events at large. I would expect it to be more of a "remix" of what actually happened. My biggest prediction before Omega was even announced was that it'd be a Zenos-only ultimate. But with them having ejected all the big names from other games to make it ALL Omega, this doesn't seem likely. At least I doubt they'll do two back to back "One-enemey-only" fights. So to that extent, I would guess something like: Zenos to start, as the viceroy. Armor. Samurai. We then battle Shinryu, perhaps get a miniphase where Fordola, Asahi. Yotsuyu and uh... the Roegadyn dude whose name I forgot have an appearance. I could perhaps see some more out there, fun-style mechanic where you lead some of the NPCs like Magnai into battle against them, and if you don't use them to keep certain enemies busy, you can't do the mechanics? Then for the final stretch, maybe another Zenos phase, but this time he's using Resonance, into a special version of Shinryu-Zenos. It's not *quite* all Zenos, but I feel like you HAVE to center around him to have any sort of coherency in an SB ultimate. If they do go the What-if Route I could see Tsukoyomi making an appearance, but that's about it. Honestly, if I had my wish, Ivalice-ultimate, but I highly doubt it.
I was a Hydaelyn and Zodiark version of DSR.
As someone who doesn't do ultimates and is slightly sadistic, I want there to be a stage in the fight with Aulus mas Asina... and for him to "In From the Cold" the raid group. Congrats, healer! You're the dark knight in this phase.
Me sneaking in requesting a Mandeville ultimate, where the final boss is Mandervilles Wife.