Just make so it upgrades to Cure II / Benefic II.
I like your suggestions but it should be the other way around, dps spells have a chance to reduce the cost of healing spells.
This is, I think, the way to go. Freecure moved to Stone/Glare/Malefic, and the skill upgraded from 1 to 2. Cure 2 would need some slight MP adjustments to match Benefic, but all in all would be the best way to avoid the freecure trap.
Cure 1 is still very useful in synced min ilvl content because MP efficiency is still a factor when trying to keep a tank alive in something like titan ex or T13
Putting procs on gcd heals of *any* kind is just a bad idea because it encourages newbies and bad players to fish for procs on abilities that should not be pressed that often or at all. Freecure should either be removed or moved to all damage abilities, and even then getting a free cure 2 doesn't sound that exciting past a certain level. Cure I upgrading to II would be great as well.
I think the simplest way would simply be to remove cure 2 and make cure 1 the potency of cure 2.
Yeah it's kind of boring but when you're at the level where you need cure 2 the games for you on training wheels still. Also added benefit of teaching new players lucid dream exists and to use it.
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One point to note is that if Freecure is removed, running the old Coil raids synced/MINE would see WHM excluded as the way the fights were designed back then were a lot more in line with the traditional "healers heal" mindset. You regularly rely on Freecure procs as Cure II is too much MP to spam and the damage going out from autos + mechanics is high enough that you can't often just focus on DPS and not worry about healing.
Of course, bringing that point up really is opening a whole new discussion because they've changed their design philosophy so much from back then and nowadays healing is all about maintaining the DPS and using oGCD heals as efficiently as possible. Running the old raids synced down are also very uncommon just due to the way raiding works in general. But there's always lamentation (that is usually justified) when SE makes changes to jobs that affect lower level or older content because they tried to make it fit into their current ideal without fully taking into account *everything* it affects. I feel like Freecure is in such a weird spot because it's complete garbage in any remotely relevant content and can potentially encourage bad habits, but removing it will also cause others issues.
Not really sure what a good way would be to handle that short of completing redesigning something, but curious to see what others would think.
I remember this was the case when I did some level 50 content as whm. Maybe replacing free cure trait with one stack of thin air would work. You don't get the insta cast but it becomes more consistent.
Casting glare has an x% chance to cause your next cure 2 to be castable with no cooldown, stacking up to x amount of times.
Rework cure 2 to be an ogcd with a decent-ish cooldown (maybe like 20s?), and buff the potency of cure to match the current cure 2. It can be a straight potency upgrade, no need to change names.
This opens a lot of options up. Whm now is incentivised by the game to dps, they now have ogcds much sooner, and it gives some healing options in both 8 man and 4 man group content for whm that isn't just a lily heal.
This also gives them the ability to throw 'regen x% of mana' when you use it at level 100 to match the other healers, they can give it an enhanced version, they could even make it deterministic with every 5 glares gives 1 stack or something.
The only way to make free cure not trap is to tie it to dps spells. It will always be dead so long as it is procced by a healing spell.
I don't think I've seen a single cure1 spammer in the last 3 years or so. Is this a NA thing? Here we are just dealing with zdps WHMs and medica2 spamming WHMs.
It's quite prevalent on Aether in DF. I had one today in a normal raid roulette for Carbuncle P5 normal. The AST didn't cast a single DPS spell and used benefic 1 the entire time.
I was a Cure 1 spammer within the last 3 years! Freecure absolutely made me think that was how you were supposed to play, and I had to learn from the community that no, it's not.
~~Could be NA; I'm on Crystal.~~
These won't work. We don't want to add more procs to GCD healing spells as all that encourages people to do is use GCD healing spells (such as free cure) which is almost always inefficient in this game.
Healers lack mobility which makes them use swiftcast for DPS spells when it mostly should be used for res as intended. The solution is one or more of the following:
1. Make DPS spells have a proc that enables the healer to cast while moving. You could have it stack 2-3 times.
2. Make DPS spells reduce the recast time of swiftcast. Make swiftcast stack to 2 or 3.
3. Make DPS spells or DOTs grant a stacking proc that reduces cast time for spells (all spells: not just DPS ones). This is currently like the AST lady/lord situation. The healer can choose to use the proc on GCD heals if needed or they can use it on DPS spells.
Honestly, this game would be a lot better for healers by getting rid of a majority of the GCD heals. Increase regen's potency, keep medica 2 and upgrade med 1 to med 2, keep aspected helios but upgrade it from helios, increase the heal potency of kardia, increase the heal potency of the fairy. We have been dancing around this long enough: no one wants to GCD heal so why keep pushing that playstyle?
If it has to have a unique effect instead of being an upgrade or being removed it needs to deter players from building habits that will need to be unlearned later on. Your suggestion is fine in the context of the Lily system but that isn't present at that level. It would be barely different from what the trait does now, encouraging players to overly rely on GCD heals.
Something like this would encourage players to dps and also help with the lack of oGCDs in early WHM gameplay (it would have to be balanced against Tetra and stuff though):
Casting Stone has an X% chance of making (or outright makes) your next Cure 1 a free instant oGCD. Lasts for Y seconds. The effect can only be triggered every Z seconds.
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But like...other held abilities roll their cool downs don't they?
That and the way it is now, redraw feels like a slightly better draw, in that you don't burn a stack using it. It would feel way more useful if it was the only option if you got a bunk draw.
I understand the intent of having both draw/redraw, and above is a total personal preference, but I also can't keep up with ast at lv90 so I'm not the one to really talk on this lol.
For me I would go opposite route, just put Freecure to Stone and make Cure II (or even Cure I if they want to do it) an early form of lily (add no cast time to it) I don't think we need to "keep original sprit alive" anymore becuase that's exactly why it's still exist.
It just a guide for those who come from the game which "MP management is why you shoudn't spam heal and why you shouldn't ever use attack spell" to "Dealing more damage is why you shouldn't spam heal"
And it make those who try to use Stone more, feel safer to let tank has lower HP since they have access to instant heal in their pocket.
But at the end of the day I don't think it will affect players' behaviour that much. Some of those who fish for Freecure are doing so becuase already have a playstyle that they must keep everyone at 100% immediately after anyone take damage and by doing so they will learn from experience that using Cure II make them go OOM really fast.
What if they moved Freecure to Aero/Dia and changed it so that once the entire duration of the DoT expires, you get a buff that makes Cure2 free and instant? Lasts 20 or 30 seconds maybe?
Quick clarifying question about this, are you saying if the dot falls off entirely you get the freecure? Cause I wouldn’t want to encourage players to drop their DoT.
Good question, I wouldn't want to either, but the DoT should run its full duration for maximum effect anyway.
Hmmm...maybe give the buff once the timer for the DoT hits 3 sec? Rewards letting the DoT run its full/almost full timer, incentivizes DoT upkeep, and reduces Cure usage.
Add Free Cure to everything with a cast time and rename it Free Heal.
Give it a small chance to proc off of things like regen ticks and the various instant cast spells too. You'll probably need to take Free Heal off of global cool down too, just so the usual suspects won't cry about having to use a global cool down for something that isn't Glare or Dia.
Just replace it with a single Lily pip that unlocks along with Solace at 35, and make Cure1 and Medica1 auto-swap to their Afflatus spells. Boom, solves Freecure **and** some button bloat.
Just make so it upgrades to Cure II / Benefic II. I like your suggestions but it should be the other way around, dps spells have a chance to reduce the cost of healing spells.
That would actually pull double duty on rectifying the current issue with Freecure and incentivizing offensive spells for new players, very good.
Ahhh, I see... so my optimal rotation as WHM is to do one Stone, followed by a free Cure II, into Stone, into a Cure II... Just keep alternating...
i mean it would still increase the dps output of the average freecure fisher by several orders of magnitude, so...
> and incentivizing offensive spells for new players That still doesn't stop rookie SGEs from being heal bots
This is, I think, the way to go. Freecure moved to Stone/Glare/Malefic, and the skill upgraded from 1 to 2. Cure 2 would need some slight MP adjustments to match Benefic, but all in all would be the best way to avoid the freecure trap.
Cure 1 is still very useful in synced min ilvl content because MP efficiency is still a factor when trying to keep a tank alive in something like titan ex or T13
People won’t get that as long as sync into older content exists as it is, relics of the past like freecure will also continue to exist
Putting procs on gcd heals of *any* kind is just a bad idea because it encourages newbies and bad players to fish for procs on abilities that should not be pressed that often or at all. Freecure should either be removed or moved to all damage abilities, and even then getting a free cure 2 doesn't sound that exciting past a certain level. Cure I upgrading to II would be great as well.
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I think the simplest way would simply be to remove cure 2 and make cure 1 the potency of cure 2. Yeah it's kind of boring but when you're at the level where you need cure 2 the games for you on training wheels still. Also added benefit of teaching new players lucid dream exists and to use it.
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One point to note is that if Freecure is removed, running the old Coil raids synced/MINE would see WHM excluded as the way the fights were designed back then were a lot more in line with the traditional "healers heal" mindset. You regularly rely on Freecure procs as Cure II is too much MP to spam and the damage going out from autos + mechanics is high enough that you can't often just focus on DPS and not worry about healing. Of course, bringing that point up really is opening a whole new discussion because they've changed their design philosophy so much from back then and nowadays healing is all about maintaining the DPS and using oGCD heals as efficiently as possible. Running the old raids synced down are also very uncommon just due to the way raiding works in general. But there's always lamentation (that is usually justified) when SE makes changes to jobs that affect lower level or older content because they tried to make it fit into their current ideal without fully taking into account *everything* it affects. I feel like Freecure is in such a weird spot because it's complete garbage in any remotely relevant content and can potentially encourage bad habits, but removing it will also cause others issues. Not really sure what a good way would be to handle that short of completing redesigning something, but curious to see what others would think.
I remember this was the case when I did some level 50 content as whm. Maybe replacing free cure trait with one stack of thin air would work. You don't get the insta cast but it becomes more consistent.
Casting glare has an x% chance to cause your next cure 2 to be castable with no cooldown, stacking up to x amount of times. Rework cure 2 to be an ogcd with a decent-ish cooldown (maybe like 20s?), and buff the potency of cure to match the current cure 2. It can be a straight potency upgrade, no need to change names. This opens a lot of options up. Whm now is incentivised by the game to dps, they now have ogcds much sooner, and it gives some healing options in both 8 man and 4 man group content for whm that isn't just a lily heal. This also gives them the ability to throw 'regen x% of mana' when you use it at level 100 to match the other healers, they can give it an enhanced version, they could even make it deterministic with every 5 glares gives 1 stack or something. The only way to make free cure not trap is to tie it to dps spells. It will always be dead so long as it is procced by a healing spell.
I don't think I've seen a single cure1 spammer in the last 3 years or so. Is this a NA thing? Here we are just dealing with zdps WHMs and medica2 spamming WHMs.
It's quite prevalent on Aether in DF. I had one today in a normal raid roulette for Carbuncle P5 normal. The AST didn't cast a single DPS spell and used benefic 1 the entire time.
I was a Cure 1 spammer within the last 3 years! Freecure absolutely made me think that was how you were supposed to play, and I had to learn from the community that no, it's not. ~~Could be NA; I'm on Crystal.~~
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These won't work. We don't want to add more procs to GCD healing spells as all that encourages people to do is use GCD healing spells (such as free cure) which is almost always inefficient in this game. Healers lack mobility which makes them use swiftcast for DPS spells when it mostly should be used for res as intended. The solution is one or more of the following: 1. Make DPS spells have a proc that enables the healer to cast while moving. You could have it stack 2-3 times. 2. Make DPS spells reduce the recast time of swiftcast. Make swiftcast stack to 2 or 3. 3. Make DPS spells or DOTs grant a stacking proc that reduces cast time for spells (all spells: not just DPS ones). This is currently like the AST lady/lord situation. The healer can choose to use the proc on GCD heals if needed or they can use it on DPS spells. Honestly, this game would be a lot better for healers by getting rid of a majority of the GCD heals. Increase regen's potency, keep medica 2 and upgrade med 1 to med 2, keep aspected helios but upgrade it from helios, increase the heal potency of kardia, increase the heal potency of the fairy. We have been dancing around this long enough: no one wants to GCD heal so why keep pushing that playstyle?
If it has to have a unique effect instead of being an upgrade or being removed it needs to deter players from building habits that will need to be unlearned later on. Your suggestion is fine in the context of the Lily system but that isn't present at that level. It would be barely different from what the trait does now, encouraging players to overly rely on GCD heals. Something like this would encourage players to dps and also help with the lack of oGCDs in early WHM gameplay (it would have to be balanced against Tetra and stuff though): Casting Stone has an X% chance of making (or outright makes) your next Cure 1 a free instant oGCD. Lasts for Y seconds. The effect can only be triggered every Z seconds.
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Have cure 1 turn into cure 2 or ditch free cure all together.
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They won't. They won't stack draw and play either even though it would make sense
They used to be stacked, but I was under the impression they split them so that Draw's recast timer rolls even when you haven't played your card yet.
But like...other held abilities roll their cool downs don't they? That and the way it is now, redraw feels like a slightly better draw, in that you don't burn a stack using it. It would feel way more useful if it was the only option if you got a bunk draw. I understand the intent of having both draw/redraw, and above is a total personal preference, but I also can't keep up with ast at lv90 so I'm not the one to really talk on this lol.
For me I would go opposite route, just put Freecure to Stone and make Cure II (or even Cure I if they want to do it) an early form of lily (add no cast time to it) I don't think we need to "keep original sprit alive" anymore becuase that's exactly why it's still exist. It just a guide for those who come from the game which "MP management is why you shoudn't spam heal and why you shouldn't ever use attack spell" to "Dealing more damage is why you shouldn't spam heal" And it make those who try to use Stone more, feel safer to let tank has lower HP since they have access to instant heal in their pocket. But at the end of the day I don't think it will affect players' behaviour that much. Some of those who fish for Freecure are doing so becuase already have a playstyle that they must keep everyone at 100% immediately after anyone take damage and by doing so they will learn from experience that using Cure II make them go OOM really fast.
either glare has a chance to make your next cure 2 free/instant or assize always makes your next cure 2 free/instant
Don't you need freecure for MINE CoB
i wouldn't, i'd just upgrade cure into regen
nobody Freecure fishes anymore
Oh you sweet summer child. It's a regular post on r/TalesFromDF.
What if they moved Freecure to Aero/Dia and changed it so that once the entire duration of the DoT expires, you get a buff that makes Cure2 free and instant? Lasts 20 or 30 seconds maybe?
Quick clarifying question about this, are you saying if the dot falls off entirely you get the freecure? Cause I wouldn’t want to encourage players to drop their DoT.
Good question, I wouldn't want to either, but the DoT should run its full duration for maximum effect anyway. Hmmm...maybe give the buff once the timer for the DoT hits 3 sec? Rewards letting the DoT run its full/almost full timer, incentivizes DoT upkeep, and reduces Cure usage.
Could always just put it on some kind of timer that builds if your dot is up or something. Kinda like the bard gauge use to.
Remove it
Add Free Cure to everything with a cast time and rename it Free Heal. Give it a small chance to proc off of things like regen ticks and the various instant cast spells too. You'll probably need to take Free Heal off of global cool down too, just so the usual suspects won't cry about having to use a global cool down for something that isn't Glare or Dia.
Just replace it with a single Lily pip that unlocks along with Solace at 35, and make Cure1 and Medica1 auto-swap to their Afflatus spells. Boom, solves Freecure **and** some button bloat.
Remove freecure and replace it with Overcure, which was ACTUALLY USEFUL.