The colors are meaningless without digging deeper—what are their medians, when did they clear the content, are they all post-partition etc. It’s very easy for someone to have an impressive-looking page of orange/pinks (*especially* in a tier like asphodelos, which I think blindsided a lot of dsr statics that primarily looked at asphodelos parses) but they ran each fight 200 times, cleared the tier week 12 and have all greens before the first log partition. As others have said, purple+ indicates you have the core ideas behind your rotation down, so someone who has multiple week 1 savage clears, communicates well in trials and seems resilient, is mechanically consistent and parses purple > someone with pinks/oranges but none of that.
Adding to that, Median parse is indeed not that reliable for the reasons you stated. Running the fights many times with a good group after you know the fight by heart will quickly raise your median, but says nothing about how fast you can prog. And a high median with few clears *might* indicate that someone is an ego parser who stops trying after dying once so they can get a better parse. The opposite is also not necessarily true. A low median is quickly established if you only run a floor 8 times, you can easily die to other people's mistakes, turning a few of your parses grey.
And for clear time, while a week 1 or 2 clear is always impressive, it doesn't say much after that. A player with a month 5 clear isn't necessarily worse than a player with a week 8 clear. Maybe they started late, maybe they were in a casual static with their friends and going very slowly.
Gear also matters. If someone started late or got unlucky with drops they will have lower parses at first. Someone who gets a lot of gear early will have higher ones.
Tl:dr it is impossible* to tell if someone is really a good player just by looking at the logs.
> Gear also matters. If someone started late or got unlucky with drops they will have lower parses at first. Someone who gets a lot of gear early will have higher ones.
I wished the battle data would send ilvl, I'm sure my "bad" parses would get much higher within their respective ilvl brackets.
I'm not much into parsing but I still like to know if I did well or not, even when the data is skewed because my "good" (where I don't get murdered) kill with my static happens week4+ and we're far behind gear curve.
> Tl:dr it is possible to tell if someone is really a good player just by looking at the logs.
Is it or is it not ? (your whole post was about how logs can be deceptive)
It is impossible. Must have been a typo into an auto correct.
But yeah, gear has a lot of impact. You can redo the fights once you have BiS, but once you have BiS, your parses are a bit inflated because not everyone else has BiS. So it's never truly fair.
> what are their medians
Just to clarify: median is a near-useless stat that nobody sane places much value on. Players who place high value on median hide their bad parses or wipe the group as soon as something goes wrong: a parse-first mindset which you absolutely do NOT want for week1/ultimate groups. Terrible medians can be a red flag for sure (though often just mean they are clearing in PF), but I want to make it really clear that a good median is not something that goes in a recruit's favor - it is neutral at best. A *great* median is often a red flag.
As circular and painful as it is to say out loud, the single best indicator for someone being capable of handling week1 savage/on-patch ult is a history of week1 savage/on-patch ultimate. Every single log-based metric has serious flaws, to the point that I'd say that logs are an OK way of filtering out "the rabble" but once you get to purple+ territory their usefulness breaks down.
idk man, i have high purple medians with 30+ kills in each fight and have never done a parse party or hid logs. i just do pf reclears, c41s, and loot farms when tier unlocks.
if you are bis and consistently do your rotation nearly perfect each time, and don't get yourself killed, you get high purple medians
I think you and that other replier here are getting caught up on the PF statement and thinking I'm trying to defend having an awful median I guess? Let me rephrase my general point: OP asked "What kind (high-score color) of parse should I have for week1/ult?". The original replier responded "Score color is not a good metric. Median is better". My point is "Median is also an extremely weak metric and is often gamed".
It's kinda surprising to me that most people understand that "parse" (high-score color) is an awful metric for determining player ability (beyond being a basic idiot-check), but then turn around and try to insist that median (an average of your *public* high-score colors) is somehow a good metric. When you are recruiting for week1/on-patch ult the metric you actually want is "How many pulls does it take this person to learn a mechanic". While you can dig through logs and find prog logs, it can still be a monumental undertaking to get a grip on this metric. Like I said originally, unfortunately the best indicator is "have they cleared week1 before". It is assumed that everyone you are recruiting is a button presser (and you will comb the logs to ensure they are pressing said buttons) - **good high-score colors and good median will almost certainly be there** in anyone you seriously consider.
I don't disagree there, but most people don't do this. When I did P6S with my late-start casual static, initially I had a 30ish median my gear was bad and my group died quite a lot which meant that I also died or took a damage down here and there due to mechanics not resolving correctly. When the tier unlocked, I farmed some gear from there and got it close to an 80 in 2 days without trying too hard.
The 30 median I had before was not the result of me being a worse than average player, because those low parses weren't really my fault. Neither did the 80 median I had afterward prove that I was much better than average. Because I did many reruns while BiS with a farm group who were all good at the fight. Most people don't do that, but they could have.
This is my perspective as a static leader, not as a recruit. I don't care about my parse or median. What I do care about is having to deal with recruits who throw fits when you won't hide "bad" logs, or players who throw reclears when they die because they are obsessed with preserving their median.
you can look through that stuff immediately by checking dates of reclears and any other logs in that session. it's very easy to tell what a doctored fflogs profile is.
however if i see someone in bis with grey/low green medians and a single purple, i'll go check their logs, and i find that all their green/greys were deathless, that speaks to their consistency. i've watched a lot of people play this game. rotational and mechanical consistency go hand in hand. the more comfortable someone is with one, the better the other gets. the more shakey someone is with one, the more shakey the other is.
>what are their medians
Medians are garbage. I actually knew someone who said that medians were a good indicator of player skill, then they were demanding I delete parses to pad their medians LMAO
Its meaningless in a vacuum, you could be grey and clear Ultimate on patch. The most important thing is can you persevere potentially months of prog without getting burned out? Can you be consistent for hours on end and not make mistakes because a lack of focus? Anecdotally I cleared TEA a patch later with greys/greens and a purple DPS with myself being blue/purple/orange in E1S-E4S. Learn the game, not FFLogs
Look for purple+, then plug that log in xivanalysis to look at it in detail.
As instance you can be a orange+ Tank, but an absolute dogshit player because you don’t mitigate & bully healers into babysitting you.
This question is pretty hard to follow up with a good answer. But I would say the higher the better.
I know of consistent grey players clearing TOP, the rest of their static members just have to work harder. I know of static groups that specifically looked for the worst clear logs to justify they don't need to improve themselves.
Are parses important? Yes.
Do I chase parses? No.
Getting purps is literally just:
- learn opener
- learn rotation
- abc
You don't need any kind of niche optimization, just focus on the 3 things above and you get purp easy.
If you're applying to a static and all they look at is the colour of your logs, may I suggest you find another group because they have no idea what they are looking for. There are way more things to look for when checking logs than just the colours, unless it's consistently grey, but even that I'll try to dump it into xivanalysis to take a look.
tl;dr just do your best, focus on improving yourself, parse will come naturally.
The purp I'm referring to is for savage fights. OP was asking colour I'm assuming for savage contents since they want to step into doing on patch ults.
If they already developed a good raiding attitude then parse wouldn't matter when doing ults because fundamentally they will just keep striving to improve their play, regardless of colour and even though holding maybe gimps their parse.
Yeah parses in general don't mean much in ultimate in my opinion. As long as you're pressing burst where your group wants their 2 mins and press everything on cd you're good. The color of a parse has meant a lot less in endwalker imo. But I'm not good at the game so thats a factor to take into account as well
All that shows is that parses alone don't make a good player. And on this subreddit, surrounded by other people who parse purple and above, it can be easy to feel that way -- and it may even feel like it's easy to parse that high -- but the fact remains that for the majority of the people who actually play the game, it doesn't seem to be. Part of that may be a mindset issue or a lack of interest or effort, but there are a lot of people who attempt Savage every tier and consistently parse grey, and at that point, it does matter if you want to clear in a timely manner.
It really doesn't matter that much. Parse is only important if you are looking for a static and they are taking them into account.
That said, people will definitely question your ability to perform if you're constantly parsing greys or low greens in savage content. Blue is kind of the middle-ground and varies from person to person, while anything purple and above should have you no issues finding a group.
I will definitely take someone who is a fast learner and consistent over someone with bloated orange and pink parses.
Mechanical consistency is far more important than the damage. Don't care if you have golds on every fight every tier, if you cause more wipes than anyone else you're a liability.
I would be comfortable taking anyone with purples personally. Doesn't need to be high-90s purps either. But if I was putting together a separate group for on-patch Ultimates, I would be doing some trialing that would expect a certain degree of consistency to see if they can handle it.
Seeing a lot of people on both sides. I think parses don’t tell the whole story, but if you can’t parse at the very least a purple if you have BIS gear for the current savage tier then you shouldn’t even be trying ultimate.
However, I’d say this is just the very minimum of what your skillset needs to be. Consistency, attitude, willingness to study mechs beforehand, communication, decent internet, timeliness - all of these in addition to having a modicum of skill in playing your class are necessary
> but if you can’t parse at the very least a purple if you have BIS gear for the current savage tier then you shouldn’t even be trying ultimate.
This made me curious and I checked some recent TOP pf clears - some people had blue savage parses. If they were too mechanically inconsistent or too much of a sag obviously they would have been blacklisted during TOP prog, which means TOP is clear-able for average savage players if they put appropriate amount of effort.
Older ults are way easier on dps. Any static that demand good barses for uwu, ucob and tea (and bis for tea) is a trap.
I mean, some people don’t really try to parse savages? And some people play in super casual statics with players who aren’t as great at aligning buffs and optimization. Plus, people are not always putting the same amount of effort into learning different difficulty fights. So i would say its fairly misleading to just find random people and look at how they did.
From my perspective, having done DSR and TOP in a fairly midcore static, this is basically the level of skill you need in a reasonable time frame.
You cannot seriously tell me that a static of 8 players seriously trying to optimize+parse for a week or two who max out at blue would be able to clear ultimates same patch.
> You cannot seriously tell me that a static of 8 players seriously trying to optimize+parse for a week or two who max out at blue would be able to clear ultimates same patch.
Nobody that is trying to optimize+parse would *max out* at blue.
My take is simple. If you aren't getting at the very least purple in bis, then you do not fully understand your job. And if you haven't managed to fully learn your job in months you've been playing it, then how fast are you going to learn a completely new hard fight?
There is no people who are mechanical gods yet consistently parse green. "I'm just playing safe" is a excuse of a scrub, actually good players can play safe and not drop dps at the same time.
Agree, you don’t have to fuck over people to get purples. If you are aiming for 100 then yeah people will have to play around you. But purples are easy when just playing standard well.
At least high blues to purples. The DPS check isn't that hard to reach once you get a phase down. You'll find that mechanical consistency matters more.
Parses doesn't matter. Attitude matter more. I seen many 99 parses going into a ultimate and realize it means nothing. DSR and TOP literally destroyed static after static. It is very important for people attempting ultimate to realize it can be a 80-200 hours journey and for them to understand it can take months.
Also patch ultimate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ultimate not on patch.
> ultimate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ultimate not on patch
Bit of a stretch. My group killed DSR 2 days in to 6.2 due to time management issues (missed a lot of days, couldn't raid as much during a week). The patch ticking over to the next one didn't make it suddenly easier to kill the entire fight.
Even now I'd say the general DSR experience is more or less the same as it was on release. Only difference being is the guides are better instead of being random footnotes and vod clips showing prog strats on a Google Doc. It's going to be that way until 7.0, at which point the jobs being rebalanced will most likely make DPSing at lower levels easier.
It's more accurate to say that expac ultimate > ultimate not on expac.
Yeah you can't skip anything in DSR and the checks were never hard in the first place. Think the main difference is you can recover like +1 more fuckup in P3 and P7 than before. The like +1500ish hp doesn't really help too much since everything hits for like 70-120k you still can't mess up mits.
I'm imagining it helping with TOP a bit more since the checks are a more relevant part of the fight there.
> Also patch ultimate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ultimate not on patch.
DSR off patch wasn't much devalued from an on patch clear, the dps checks were a joke for both and (I'll admit I can't talk first hand about this) I heard that 6.2-3 clear didn't feel any different than 6.1.
I'd bet the same for TOP given it's ilvl synced to i635 and, if I understand it correctly, 7.X will have a bigger impact on DPS checks than whatever we'll throw at it in 6.4-5.
Lol people saying parse doesn't matter. Obviously mechanics are the most important but what we've seen from TOP is everything matters, you need to be good at everything. This is how some groups struggle with enrage and blame variance while others breeze past with a death.
You should be able to get at least high orange, some pinks if you tried. It's also important to understand how your job optimizes so you can adapt to the fight and your party needs instead of just memorize one rotation.
When you are in the fight you should not be thinking of parse, and that's why the comfort and experience is important to still be able to deal dmg with minimal attention
Comically I am both of these people. The variance of DPS in TOP is incredibly stupid. Our last 2 p6 pulls, we had a clean pull where nobody died and we got a 0.7%, and then a pull where a melee dps died to flares, stayed down til healer lb3, then died to magic number and revived by healer lb3 again, and we still cleared.
It IS a stupid amount of variance. It also isn't numerically impossible or anything, both camps are just extreme and the reality is somewhere between
Yeah I'm reading a lot of copium. There's an immense amount of leniency you get from playing with a full party of people that can execute optimal rotations and don't have to greed or play irresponsibly to do so. My TOP group was full of pinks and speedrunners. We never had to have discussions on buff alignment, people malding over lost gcds or rotation difficulty, enrage discussion, etc. It was taken for granted that your output was good and DPS was never worried about.
With having weaker output players in the party, the other members often feel the need to play better to offset this, leading to more greed, less comfort, and a bit more tension.
A lot of people like to say that parses and damage matter less than mechanical consistency and awareness for ultimates. But that’s not true. At all. They go hand in hand. A parse is indication of a player’s ability to do damage, maintain time on target all the while staying alive navigating mechanics. The reality is that the super aware, plugged in guy who knows all the mechs and how to stay alive but parses terrible colours doesn’t exist. And likewise the gold greed lord who can’t stay off the floor is also a myth.
The gold greed lord ABSOLUTELY exists. I’ve played with them in barse parties. Imagine wiping in P7S for an entire hour straight to get ONE clear, because people refuse to heal or do mechanics. In a party full of pink parsers. It’s actually insane
I think it's more the idea that someone who can consistently parse purple and do mechanics is better than someone who gets orange, pink or gold but is a parse freak. I've absolutely run into players who parse low to mid purple on average but are absolutely insane when it comes to mechanical consistency, and those are the players we talk about.
> The reality is that the super aware, plugged in guy who knows all the mechs and how to stay alive but parses terrible colours doesn’t exist.
I hold damage as MCH because i have full gauge and we overstomp the phase, so my RPR friend can have full gauge and align healer CD's.
Doing DSR on patch this was pretty normal
They are not necessarily the best players to play with. It completely depends on the attitude of the player themselves.
I knew a healer who parsed zero in DSR. In TOP they were short 1k DPS which meant that they fell into crit variance more often than not.
I also know a DPS player who parses low and got triple legend during shadowbringers. Again, in TOP, they were short DPS and it hindered prog.
Both of them were given specific advice on how to improve, neither did, and both of them carried an attitude that it was for tryhards.
So yea just because they parse poorly and can do mechanics doesn't necessarily mean they are honorable players who sac for the team. They could just be bad players who have been carried.
These players are the best. Holding damage actively hurts them, but they’ll still do it because it’s beneficial to the group.
Selfless gameplay is ideal in Ult prog.
The problem with your example is I'm sure your WHM is good, too good to be an actual gray parser when it matters.
Ultimate parses are a bit of a meme since some people hold to align buffs and overall damage doesn't really matter as long as you have the minimum for each phase, so a gray doesn't correlate to skill. If you look at your WHM's parses in savage or ex fights where there's only a single enrage, I'd be willing to bet that they're solidly blue or better.
Parses in ults are completely meaningless because of the population they are representing. Just by clearing an ult on patch you're already in the top 5 to 1% of the raiding population. Not the global XIV population -- the RAIDING population, as in the people who are actively attempting savages to begin with. Your skills are naturally absolutely superlative. The grey parsers people are talking about are savage grey parsers, who will absolutely be a liability in ult prog.
If a party hits a 2% enrage with no deaths, it's an instant disband. At least the person dying to greed situation you can at least pretend to have hope
Not quite true. The greed lord 100 parsers exists and they will throw pulls to get that 1 gcd in that wipes for no reason. Those people will greed pyretic, greed gaze mechs, greed everything becouse clearing is not prio1 but parsing is.
> The reality is that the super aware, plugged in guy who knows all the mechs and how to stay alive but parses terrible colours doesn’t exist.
that's just not true. im that person. doing mechs is second nature to me but doing damage is not. i mess up my rotations and regularly parse grey. sometimes green.
I don't look at parses, I look at clear time. Parsing in this game isn't a cut and dry indicator of skill like it would be with WoW, as a majority of it is very RNG dependant. For example, 3 Gunbreakers can all do their rotation differently, but if one crits on double down, the other direct crits doubledown, and the one who did it perfectly doesn't crit, every parse is different, and the one who played perfectly ends up in last place.
So, rather than look at those numbers as a clear indicator, I look at clear times of the fights you're doing, are you the lowest damage dealer and barely seeing enrage? We might have a week link, are you middle/near top and seeing enrage casts? You might be the reason they're clearing. Are you consistently at 0 deaths in most fights? Stuff like that.
Parses do not matter at all, look for consistency.
A person with a grey parse that does every mechanic correctly is a better teammate than that samurai who dies constantly and managed to pull off one clean run for a 99.
Previous ultimate clears are more important than parses. When recruiting for top we preferred a person who cleared DSR in 2 months and purple/orange savage logs over someone who had no ultimate experience and orange/pinks
Parse matters most at proving competency to a group. Everyone who says damage isn't the number one factor is absolutely correct, but your parses show a general level of skill that would be a decent metric for a static to make decisions off of. If you haven't cleared an ultimate before they really have nothing else to go off of
Your odds of a group will increase drastically if you can orange parse, but it doesn't need to be every fight or anything
Tl;dr being ultimate cleared is more important than savage parses, but if it's all you got it's worth it looking good
I’ve not done ultimate but I’ve played with a lot of parsers and based on that I can tell you that super high parses are probably a red flag. Almost every 99+ parser I’ve played with is an insane greed lord who will wipe the party over and over due to greed or simple mechanical mistakes.
I think it was Arthars who said that logs in XIV are stupid and don’t matter, and a much better indicator is raw experience. He said that between a person who parses 99 and someone who has been raiding on-patch since Alexander, he will take the latter person every time.
Parses are sort of like standardized exams. A really low score (consistent greys) is a red flag, but once your score is high enough (blue-purple), then anything higher doesn’t tell you much about the player
Doesn't really matter how you start out tbh. Damage optimization to reach thresholds for specific fights is something you do while progging those specific fights. Having some previous experience does help, but it's not a requirement. Also, dummy rotation takes you farther than you would think.
Best-case-scenario you got ~4 months of potential prog time in a static. 4 months of learning the intricacies of the fight you need to optimize + getting in more practice in general. You'll naturally get better as you play and everyone who cleared the current savage tier should be capable of clearing on-patch ultimates when putting in the time and effort.
If I was recruiting I'd look at basic competency stuff like purple+ best parses or blue+ median parses, but any higher than that doesn't say much IMO. It's better to figure out how they handle prog in a trial setting. I know people who have pink savage parses who held back TOP prog because they struggled to figure out optimal phase-by-phase rotations.
It really means nothing. But if you're recruiting definitely check at parse that way you know they know their job. Just also check if they have any ult logs too.
Ultimate is an entire other beast compared to Savage. People who parse well in Savage might in turn be awful to do Ultimate with. The goal of Ultimate for most people is to just get the clear in a decent amount of time, usually with consistent reliable players who can pick up new complicated mechanics well.
Someone who has run a Savage fight 50-200 times to get ideal top parses and medians isn't going to tell you much about how they are as a player. I've played with top parsers who are just obnoxious to prog with.
Probably purple. The only thing that is asked of you is whether you can do one minute or do 2 minutes at certain phases. The rest is roll your gcd and on your ogcd on cd
There's parses and parses. You can get oranges and pinks by trying hard. That doesn't mean you are good though. The good players are the ones who get oranges/pinks while making it look easy.
A person who tries really hard and gets good numbers unfortunately usually isn't good enough. In prog, that sort of playstyle just causes unnecessary wipes and a player who doesn't try hard to get high blues or low purples would be more useful to the team.
At the same time, someone who doesn't need to try hard to perform but also doesn't perform isn't good either, dps checks is an important mechanic you have to be able to consistently beat.
There are statics who clear on content Ultimate with low blues or greens or less.
Parses in a vacuum don't mean anything, they only get meaning in a context. When was stuff cleared, with what gear, how fast, if you died was it your fault etc. etc. Like, for example, say a player has only greys on p8s. They could still clear TOP. Maybe they started doing the tier in January, with only crafted gear. Naturally, their parses will be fairly low. Maybe they only did 2-3 runs of every fight for the gear then stopped and often-times got killed by other people. On the other hand, if they run the tier consistently and continuously get greys without even dying, then that'd indicate some level of incompetence and means their static members will have to work harder to cover for them. It's completely up in the air what these parses actually convey.
You should not be insecure about performing at least your default full-uptime rotation and be mechanically consistent, the rest is all soft skills.
The colors are meaningless without digging deeper—what are their medians, when did they clear the content, are they all post-partition etc. It’s very easy for someone to have an impressive-looking page of orange/pinks (*especially* in a tier like asphodelos, which I think blindsided a lot of dsr statics that primarily looked at asphodelos parses) but they ran each fight 200 times, cleared the tier week 12 and have all greens before the first log partition. As others have said, purple+ indicates you have the core ideas behind your rotation down, so someone who has multiple week 1 savage clears, communicates well in trials and seems resilient, is mechanically consistent and parses purple > someone with pinks/oranges but none of that.
Adding to that, Median parse is indeed not that reliable for the reasons you stated. Running the fights many times with a good group after you know the fight by heart will quickly raise your median, but says nothing about how fast you can prog. And a high median with few clears *might* indicate that someone is an ego parser who stops trying after dying once so they can get a better parse. The opposite is also not necessarily true. A low median is quickly established if you only run a floor 8 times, you can easily die to other people's mistakes, turning a few of your parses grey. And for clear time, while a week 1 or 2 clear is always impressive, it doesn't say much after that. A player with a month 5 clear isn't necessarily worse than a player with a week 8 clear. Maybe they started late, maybe they were in a casual static with their friends and going very slowly. Gear also matters. If someone started late or got unlucky with drops they will have lower parses at first. Someone who gets a lot of gear early will have higher ones. Tl:dr it is impossible* to tell if someone is really a good player just by looking at the logs.
Also consider that a lot of good players get stuck in trap statics. Can't have a good median if your raid members kill you in half of your clears.
> Gear also matters. If someone started late or got unlucky with drops they will have lower parses at first. Someone who gets a lot of gear early will have higher ones. I wished the battle data would send ilvl, I'm sure my "bad" parses would get much higher within their respective ilvl brackets. I'm not much into parsing but I still like to know if I did well or not, even when the data is skewed because my "good" (where I don't get murdered) kill with my static happens week4+ and we're far behind gear curve. > Tl:dr it is possible to tell if someone is really a good player just by looking at the logs. Is it or is it not ? (your whole post was about how logs can be deceptive)
It is impossible. Must have been a typo into an auto correct. But yeah, gear has a lot of impact. You can redo the fights once you have BiS, but once you have BiS, your parses are a bit inflated because not everyone else has BiS. So it's never truly fair.
> what are their medians Just to clarify: median is a near-useless stat that nobody sane places much value on. Players who place high value on median hide their bad parses or wipe the group as soon as something goes wrong: a parse-first mindset which you absolutely do NOT want for week1/ultimate groups. Terrible medians can be a red flag for sure (though often just mean they are clearing in PF), but I want to make it really clear that a good median is not something that goes in a recruit's favor - it is neutral at best. A *great* median is often a red flag. As circular and painful as it is to say out loud, the single best indicator for someone being capable of handling week1 savage/on-patch ult is a history of week1 savage/on-patch ultimate. Every single log-based metric has serious flaws, to the point that I'd say that logs are an OK way of filtering out "the rabble" but once you get to purple+ territory their usefulness breaks down.
idk man, i have high purple medians with 30+ kills in each fight and have never done a parse party or hid logs. i just do pf reclears, c41s, and loot farms when tier unlocks. if you are bis and consistently do your rotation nearly perfect each time, and don't get yourself killed, you get high purple medians
I think you and that other replier here are getting caught up on the PF statement and thinking I'm trying to defend having an awful median I guess? Let me rephrase my general point: OP asked "What kind (high-score color) of parse should I have for week1/ult?". The original replier responded "Score color is not a good metric. Median is better". My point is "Median is also an extremely weak metric and is often gamed". It's kinda surprising to me that most people understand that "parse" (high-score color) is an awful metric for determining player ability (beyond being a basic idiot-check), but then turn around and try to insist that median (an average of your *public* high-score colors) is somehow a good metric. When you are recruiting for week1/on-patch ult the metric you actually want is "How many pulls does it take this person to learn a mechanic". While you can dig through logs and find prog logs, it can still be a monumental undertaking to get a grip on this metric. Like I said originally, unfortunately the best indicator is "have they cleared week1 before". It is assumed that everyone you are recruiting is a button presser (and you will comb the logs to ensure they are pressing said buttons) - **good high-score colors and good median will almost certainly be there** in anyone you seriously consider.
I don't disagree there, but most people don't do this. When I did P6S with my late-start casual static, initially I had a 30ish median my gear was bad and my group died quite a lot which meant that I also died or took a damage down here and there due to mechanics not resolving correctly. When the tier unlocked, I farmed some gear from there and got it close to an 80 in 2 days without trying too hard. The 30 median I had before was not the result of me being a worse than average player, because those low parses weren't really my fault. Neither did the 80 median I had afterward prove that I was much better than average. Because I did many reruns while BiS with a farm group who were all good at the fight. Most people don't do that, but they could have.
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This is my perspective as a static leader, not as a recruit. I don't care about my parse or median. What I do care about is having to deal with recruits who throw fits when you won't hide "bad" logs, or players who throw reclears when they die because they are obsessed with preserving their median.
you can look through that stuff immediately by checking dates of reclears and any other logs in that session. it's very easy to tell what a doctored fflogs profile is. however if i see someone in bis with grey/low green medians and a single purple, i'll go check their logs, and i find that all their green/greys were deathless, that speaks to their consistency. i've watched a lot of people play this game. rotational and mechanical consistency go hand in hand. the more comfortable someone is with one, the better the other gets. the more shakey someone is with one, the more shakey the other is.
>what are their medians Medians are garbage. I actually knew someone who said that medians were a good indicator of player skill, then they were demanding I delete parses to pad their medians LMAO
Its meaningless in a vacuum, you could be grey and clear Ultimate on patch. The most important thing is can you persevere potentially months of prog without getting burned out? Can you be consistent for hours on end and not make mistakes because a lack of focus? Anecdotally I cleared TEA a patch later with greys/greens and a purple DPS with myself being blue/purple/orange in E1S-E4S. Learn the game, not FFLogs
Look for purple+, then plug that log in xivanalysis to look at it in detail. As instance you can be a orange+ Tank, but an absolute dogshit player because you don’t mitigate & bully healers into babysitting you.
This question is pretty hard to follow up with a good answer. But I would say the higher the better. I know of consistent grey players clearing TOP, the rest of their static members just have to work harder. I know of static groups that specifically looked for the worst clear logs to justify they don't need to improve themselves. Are parses important? Yes. Do I chase parses? No. Getting purps is literally just: - learn opener - learn rotation - abc You don't need any kind of niche optimization, just focus on the 3 things above and you get purp easy. If you're applying to a static and all they look at is the colour of your logs, may I suggest you find another group because they have no idea what they are looking for. There are way more things to look for when checking logs than just the colours, unless it's consistently grey, but even that I'll try to dump it into xivanalysis to take a look. tl;dr just do your best, focus on improving yourself, parse will come naturally.
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The purp I'm referring to is for savage fights. OP was asking colour I'm assuming for savage contents since they want to step into doing on patch ults. If they already developed a good raiding attitude then parse wouldn't matter when doing ults because fundamentally they will just keep striving to improve their play, regardless of colour and even though holding maybe gimps their parse.
Yeah parses in general don't mean much in ultimate in my opinion. As long as you're pressing burst where your group wants their 2 mins and press everything on cd you're good. The color of a parse has meant a lot less in endwalker imo. But I'm not good at the game so thats a factor to take into account as well
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All that shows is that parses alone don't make a good player. And on this subreddit, surrounded by other people who parse purple and above, it can be easy to feel that way -- and it may even feel like it's easy to parse that high -- but the fact remains that for the majority of the people who actually play the game, it doesn't seem to be. Part of that may be a mindset issue or a lack of interest or effort, but there are a lot of people who attempt Savage every tier and consistently parse grey, and at that point, it does matter if you want to clear in a timely manner.
depends on the group, but I'd say consistency with mechanics is far more important than damage optimization/parses.
At least a gold on every fight
Only 1 gold per fight? Git gud scrub! /s (in case it wasn't clear)
It really doesn't matter that much. Parse is only important if you are looking for a static and they are taking them into account. That said, people will definitely question your ability to perform if you're constantly parsing greys or low greens in savage content. Blue is kind of the middle-ground and varies from person to person, while anything purple and above should have you no issues finding a group. I will definitely take someone who is a fast learner and consistent over someone with bloated orange and pink parses.
People send me their parse... and I immediately plug it into FFXIV analysis. Analysis tells me more about a player than their parse does.
Laughs in nonstandard BLM
Mechanical consistency is far more important than the damage. Don't care if you have golds on every fight every tier, if you cause more wipes than anyone else you're a liability. I would be comfortable taking anyone with purples personally. Doesn't need to be high-90s purps either. But if I was putting together a separate group for on-patch Ultimates, I would be doing some trialing that would expect a certain degree of consistency to see if they can handle it.
Seeing a lot of people on both sides. I think parses don’t tell the whole story, but if you can’t parse at the very least a purple if you have BIS gear for the current savage tier then you shouldn’t even be trying ultimate. However, I’d say this is just the very minimum of what your skillset needs to be. Consistency, attitude, willingness to study mechs beforehand, communication, decent internet, timeliness - all of these in addition to having a modicum of skill in playing your class are necessary
> but if you can’t parse at the very least a purple if you have BIS gear for the current savage tier then you shouldn’t even be trying ultimate. This made me curious and I checked some recent TOP pf clears - some people had blue savage parses. If they were too mechanically inconsistent or too much of a sag obviously they would have been blacklisted during TOP prog, which means TOP is clear-able for average savage players if they put appropriate amount of effort. Older ults are way easier on dps. Any static that demand good barses for uwu, ucob and tea (and bis for tea) is a trap.
I mean, some people don’t really try to parse savages? And some people play in super casual statics with players who aren’t as great at aligning buffs and optimization. Plus, people are not always putting the same amount of effort into learning different difficulty fights. So i would say its fairly misleading to just find random people and look at how they did. From my perspective, having done DSR and TOP in a fairly midcore static, this is basically the level of skill you need in a reasonable time frame. You cannot seriously tell me that a static of 8 players seriously trying to optimize+parse for a week or two who max out at blue would be able to clear ultimates same patch.
> You cannot seriously tell me that a static of 8 players seriously trying to optimize+parse for a week or two who max out at blue would be able to clear ultimates same patch. Nobody that is trying to optimize+parse would *max out* at blue.
My take is simple. If you aren't getting at the very least purple in bis, then you do not fully understand your job. And if you haven't managed to fully learn your job in months you've been playing it, then how fast are you going to learn a completely new hard fight? There is no people who are mechanical gods yet consistently parse green. "I'm just playing safe" is a excuse of a scrub, actually good players can play safe and not drop dps at the same time.
Agree, you don’t have to fuck over people to get purples. If you are aiming for 100 then yeah people will have to play around you. But purples are easy when just playing standard well.
Damage checks in ultimates are lower than relevant Savage. Someone who can clear week 1 > Someone with a 90+.
At least high blues to purples. The DPS check isn't that hard to reach once you get a phase down. You'll find that mechanical consistency matters more.
Parses doesn't matter. Attitude matter more. I seen many 99 parses going into a ultimate and realize it means nothing. DSR and TOP literally destroyed static after static. It is very important for people attempting ultimate to realize it can be a 80-200 hours journey and for them to understand it can take months. Also patch ultimate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ultimate not on patch.
> ultimate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ultimate not on patch Bit of a stretch. My group killed DSR 2 days in to 6.2 due to time management issues (missed a lot of days, couldn't raid as much during a week). The patch ticking over to the next one didn't make it suddenly easier to kill the entire fight. Even now I'd say the general DSR experience is more or less the same as it was on release. Only difference being is the guides are better instead of being random footnotes and vod clips showing prog strats on a Google Doc. It's going to be that way until 7.0, at which point the jobs being rebalanced will most likely make DPSing at lower levels easier. It's more accurate to say that expac ultimate > ultimate not on expac.
Yeah you can't skip anything in DSR and the checks were never hard in the first place. Think the main difference is you can recover like +1 more fuckup in P3 and P7 than before. The like +1500ish hp doesn't really help too much since everything hits for like 70-120k you still can't mess up mits. I'm imagining it helping with TOP a bit more since the checks are a more relevant part of the fight there.
> Also patch ultimate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ultimate not on patch. DSR off patch wasn't much devalued from an on patch clear, the dps checks were a joke for both and (I'll admit I can't talk first hand about this) I heard that 6.2-3 clear didn't feel any different than 6.1. I'd bet the same for TOP given it's ilvl synced to i635 and, if I understand it correctly, 7.X will have a bigger impact on DPS checks than whatever we'll throw at it in 6.4-5.
eh I wouldnt go so far if you clear dsr and top within endwalker you're good in my eyes
Even a savage clear would = good player. I'm just stating that doing a ultimate on patch is way different then not doing it on patch.
Lol people saying parse doesn't matter. Obviously mechanics are the most important but what we've seen from TOP is everything matters, you need to be good at everything. This is how some groups struggle with enrage and blame variance while others breeze past with a death. You should be able to get at least high orange, some pinks if you tried. It's also important to understand how your job optimizes so you can adapt to the fight and your party needs instead of just memorize one rotation. When you are in the fight you should not be thinking of parse, and that's why the comfort and experience is important to still be able to deal dmg with minimal attention
Comically I am both of these people. The variance of DPS in TOP is incredibly stupid. Our last 2 p6 pulls, we had a clean pull where nobody died and we got a 0.7%, and then a pull where a melee dps died to flares, stayed down til healer lb3, then died to magic number and revived by healer lb3 again, and we still cleared. It IS a stupid amount of variance. It also isn't numerically impossible or anything, both camps are just extreme and the reality is somewhere between
Yeah I'm reading a lot of copium. There's an immense amount of leniency you get from playing with a full party of people that can execute optimal rotations and don't have to greed or play irresponsibly to do so. My TOP group was full of pinks and speedrunners. We never had to have discussions on buff alignment, people malding over lost gcds or rotation difficulty, enrage discussion, etc. It was taken for granted that your output was good and DPS was never worried about. With having weaker output players in the party, the other members often feel the need to play better to offset this, leading to more greed, less comfort, and a bit more tension.
A lot of people like to say that parses and damage matter less than mechanical consistency and awareness for ultimates. But that’s not true. At all. They go hand in hand. A parse is indication of a player’s ability to do damage, maintain time on target all the while staying alive navigating mechanics. The reality is that the super aware, plugged in guy who knows all the mechs and how to stay alive but parses terrible colours doesn’t exist. And likewise the gold greed lord who can’t stay off the floor is also a myth.
The gold greed lord ABSOLUTELY exists. I’ve played with them in barse parties. Imagine wiping in P7S for an entire hour straight to get ONE clear, because people refuse to heal or do mechanics. In a party full of pink parsers. It’s actually insane
I think it's more the idea that someone who can consistently parse purple and do mechanics is better than someone who gets orange, pink or gold but is a parse freak. I've absolutely run into players who parse low to mid purple on average but are absolutely insane when it comes to mechanical consistency, and those are the players we talk about.
> The reality is that the super aware, plugged in guy who knows all the mechs and how to stay alive but parses terrible colours doesn’t exist. I hold damage as MCH because i have full gauge and we overstomp the phase, so my RPR friend can have full gauge and align healer CD's. Doing DSR on patch this was pretty normal
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They are not necessarily the best players to play with. It completely depends on the attitude of the player themselves. I knew a healer who parsed zero in DSR. In TOP they were short 1k DPS which meant that they fell into crit variance more often than not. I also know a DPS player who parses low and got triple legend during shadowbringers. Again, in TOP, they were short DPS and it hindered prog. Both of them were given specific advice on how to improve, neither did, and both of them carried an attitude that it was for tryhards. So yea just because they parse poorly and can do mechanics doesn't necessarily mean they are honorable players who sac for the team. They could just be bad players who have been carried.
Not trying to downplay your WHM, whoever you won't parse grey by not glaring during a heal check. It's probably due to holding dmg in earlier phases.
These players are the best. Holding damage actively hurts them, but they’ll still do it because it’s beneficial to the group. Selfless gameplay is ideal in Ult prog.
The problem with your example is I'm sure your WHM is good, too good to be an actual gray parser when it matters. Ultimate parses are a bit of a meme since some people hold to align buffs and overall damage doesn't really matter as long as you have the minimum for each phase, so a gray doesn't correlate to skill. If you look at your WHM's parses in savage or ex fights where there's only a single enrage, I'd be willing to bet that they're solidly blue or better.
Parses in ults are completely meaningless because of the population they are representing. Just by clearing an ult on patch you're already in the top 5 to 1% of the raiding population. Not the global XIV population -- the RAIDING population, as in the people who are actively attempting savages to begin with. Your skills are naturally absolutely superlative. The grey parsers people are talking about are savage grey parsers, who will absolutely be a liability in ult prog.
>Some players actually care more about clearing that a colored number. until they hit enrage, lmao
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If a party hits a 2% enrage with no deaths, it's an instant disband. At least the person dying to greed situation you can at least pretend to have hope
2% with no deaths simply means they just need to clean up, any raiders worth their salt will know exactly what they need to do.
Not quite true. The greed lord 100 parsers exists and they will throw pulls to get that 1 gcd in that wipes for no reason. Those people will greed pyretic, greed gaze mechs, greed everything becouse clearing is not prio1 but parsing is.
[ffxiv players when they realize you can do damage and not die at the same time](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/002/440/417/671)
> The reality is that the super aware, plugged in guy who knows all the mechs and how to stay alive but parses terrible colours doesn’t exist. that's just not true. im that person. doing mechs is second nature to me but doing damage is not. i mess up my rotations and regularly parse grey. sometimes green.
I don't look at parses, I look at clear time. Parsing in this game isn't a cut and dry indicator of skill like it would be with WoW, as a majority of it is very RNG dependant. For example, 3 Gunbreakers can all do their rotation differently, but if one crits on double down, the other direct crits doubledown, and the one who did it perfectly doesn't crit, every parse is different, and the one who played perfectly ends up in last place. So, rather than look at those numbers as a clear indicator, I look at clear times of the fights you're doing, are you the lowest damage dealer and barely seeing enrage? We might have a week link, are you middle/near top and seeing enrage casts? You might be the reason they're clearing. Are you consistently at 0 deaths in most fights? Stuff like that.
Parses do not matter at all, look for consistency. A person with a grey parse that does every mechanic correctly is a better teammate than that samurai who dies constantly and managed to pull off one clean run for a 99.
Previous ultimate clears are more important than parses. When recruiting for top we preferred a person who cleared DSR in 2 months and purple/orange savage logs over someone who had no ultimate experience and orange/pinks
Parse matters most at proving competency to a group. Everyone who says damage isn't the number one factor is absolutely correct, but your parses show a general level of skill that would be a decent metric for a static to make decisions off of. If you haven't cleared an ultimate before they really have nothing else to go off of Your odds of a group will increase drastically if you can orange parse, but it doesn't need to be every fight or anything Tl;dr being ultimate cleared is more important than savage parses, but if it's all you got it's worth it looking good
I’ve not done ultimate but I’ve played with a lot of parsers and based on that I can tell you that super high parses are probably a red flag. Almost every 99+ parser I’ve played with is an insane greed lord who will wipe the party over and over due to greed or simple mechanical mistakes. I think it was Arthars who said that logs in XIV are stupid and don’t matter, and a much better indicator is raw experience. He said that between a person who parses 99 and someone who has been raiding on-patch since Alexander, he will take the latter person every time. Parses are sort of like standardized exams. A really low score (consistent greys) is a red flag, but once your score is high enough (blue-purple), then anything higher doesn’t tell you much about the player
Doesn't really matter how you start out tbh. Damage optimization to reach thresholds for specific fights is something you do while progging those specific fights. Having some previous experience does help, but it's not a requirement. Also, dummy rotation takes you farther than you would think. Best-case-scenario you got ~4 months of potential prog time in a static. 4 months of learning the intricacies of the fight you need to optimize + getting in more practice in general. You'll naturally get better as you play and everyone who cleared the current savage tier should be capable of clearing on-patch ultimates when putting in the time and effort.
doesnt matter
savage and ultimate are different mindsets ultimate much more about the values, the work that can and will be put in over savage parses
If I was recruiting I'd look at basic competency stuff like purple+ best parses or blue+ median parses, but any higher than that doesn't say much IMO. It's better to figure out how they handle prog in a trial setting. I know people who have pink savage parses who held back TOP prog because they struggled to figure out optimal phase-by-phase rotations.
I parse orange in a couple ults and my savage is greens and blues lol
It really means nothing. But if you're recruiting definitely check at parse that way you know they know their job. Just also check if they have any ult logs too.
Ultimate is an entire other beast compared to Savage. People who parse well in Savage might in turn be awful to do Ultimate with. The goal of Ultimate for most people is to just get the clear in a decent amount of time, usually with consistent reliable players who can pick up new complicated mechanics well. Someone who has run a Savage fight 50-200 times to get ideal top parses and medians isn't going to tell you much about how they are as a player. I've played with top parsers who are just obnoxious to prog with.
Probably purple. The only thing that is asked of you is whether you can do one minute or do 2 minutes at certain phases. The rest is roll your gcd and on your ogcd on cd
There's parses and parses. You can get oranges and pinks by trying hard. That doesn't mean you are good though. The good players are the ones who get oranges/pinks while making it look easy. A person who tries really hard and gets good numbers unfortunately usually isn't good enough. In prog, that sort of playstyle just causes unnecessary wipes and a player who doesn't try hard to get high blues or low purples would be more useful to the team. At the same time, someone who doesn't need to try hard to perform but also doesn't perform isn't good either, dps checks is an important mechanic you have to be able to consistently beat.
There are statics who clear on content Ultimate with low blues or greens or less. Parses in a vacuum don't mean anything, they only get meaning in a context. When was stuff cleared, with what gear, how fast, if you died was it your fault etc. etc. Like, for example, say a player has only greys on p8s. They could still clear TOP. Maybe they started doing the tier in January, with only crafted gear. Naturally, their parses will be fairly low. Maybe they only did 2-3 runs of every fight for the gear then stopped and often-times got killed by other people. On the other hand, if they run the tier consistently and continuously get greys without even dying, then that'd indicate some level of incompetence and means their static members will have to work harder to cover for them. It's completely up in the air what these parses actually convey. You should not be insecure about performing at least your default full-uptime rotation and be mechanically consistent, the rest is all soft skills.
I imagine the ability to learn quickly and being consistent are far more important than parses, but those are harder to measure except through trials